THE BORE

General => The Superdeep Borehole => Topic started by: Himu on February 13, 2007, 04:38:40 PM

Title: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: Himu on February 13, 2007, 04:38:40 PM
On another forum I was talking about Kubrick movies. Following debate happened:

Person1: Kubrick is a fucking hack.

Me: Maybe you're too dense to get his movies?

Person1: Maybe you're too dumb to know a good movie from a bad one. That's more likely, I'd think.

I posted my Clockwork impressions. Now remember, this person's favorite movie is Star Wars.

Person1: I reiterate that Kubrick is a fucking hack, and Clockwork Orange is retardly overrated.

Me: Even if Kubrick is a supposed hack, his movies are better than Star Wars, which have themes, script, and plot as corny as a little kid's programming show.

I am still questioning how anyone who likes film can even say Kubrick is a hack. I can understand them not particularly enjoying his films, because they definitely demand something the user. With 2001 you must have the up most amount of patience, and become immersed with the film to enjoy it, for example. One thing I've noticed from his movie making is that many things are subtle and vague to a tee, and for fans of by the numbers "I need everything explained to me without real thought" type of audiences, I can definitely see that as a problem.

Still, his camera work and scripts are like, wow. So I don't get that hate at all.

Person1: "they definitely demand something the user." No they don't; that's just the thing. They try too hard to be 'intelligent' and come off as :rolleyes . But if you'd like to tell yourself otherwise, be my guest.

And as far as Star Wars goes, it is written to be what it is. It doesn't take itself too seriously or try to be more than it is. It's a fairy tale set in space.

Me: And what are these movies that try to be intelligent. They don't really have to try. The symbolism does it for them.

Person1: No, it's like that guy in high school who thinks he is a lot cooler and smarter than he really is. You can tell he thinks he's hot shit, but you're not really impressed and want to jsut kick him down a stairs.

His movies are like that for me.

Person 2: I'll take that one further, actually, and blame the fans more than Kubrick himself. The fans are often the ones who go on and on about how genius he was, and how people who don't like his movies just don't understand/appreciate/get his movies in the right way or whatever. It's pretentious and obnoxious.

I won't fault Kubrick for making the kind of movies he wanted to make, but I will fault those people who go on and on about how great he was, even when it's obvious that no one they are talking to cares.

The Shining was the only one of his films that I even kind of liked, but it also bugged me because it had very little to do with the book it was based on. 2001 is too damn long, and A Clockwork Orange is too full of itself. I haven't seen Dr. Strangelove yet.

Person3: I'm not a big fan of 2001, but I really love A Clockwork Orange and Dr. Strangelove.

Person1: ^ In other words, "I too am easily impressed!"
 
Person 2: I remember going to see Eyes Wide Shut in the theatre, and having to pull over on the way home because my friend was making me laugh so hard going on about how terrible it was.

Because it was terrible.

Me: I don't see how Clockwork is too full of itself. It's just fun.

Person1: (referencing person2 and Eyes Wide Shut) Yeah, that movie was really the killing blow for me. I'll hate Kubrick til the day I die now.

The awfulness is on par with Escape from LA. And that's pretty sporking awful.

Person2: If it's "just fun" then you really don't understand it Himuro.

Me: No, I understand it, but it's entertaining enough to get over it's message. Seeing Alex wave a giant cock model was awesome. The rich dialogue keeps the movie from being stale, and it's entertaining all throughout. It's anti-government stance on experiments on patients and reconditioning could have been pulled off better, but in the end, they're a small problem to a very enjoyable picture.

Viddy well, o brother. Viddy well.

Person2: Yeah, that was so awesome. SO AWESOME.

Or you know, so trite.

Me: I'm so sorry you can't just sit and enjoy a movie without being overly critical.

Person2: Haha.

Himuro, I have seen hundreds, if not thousands of films in my lifetime. I can appreciate plenty. I just happen to disagree with you as to the importance of Kubrick's films. If you want to get butthurt over that, you're free to do so, but that doesn't mean that I am unable to appreciate cinema.

---

Now, person 2 is someone who has a lot of film experience and goes to the movies just about weekly, and looking around a lot of the film people I know after trying to discuss Kubrick films with them, they give similar responses. So I'm wondering if Kubrick films are looked down upon as people who just blindly love someone's movie to look cool.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 13, 2007, 04:41:31 PM
2001 sucks, so this person was probably right.

Go watch Soul Plane or something
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: T234 on February 13, 2007, 04:41:54 PM
Film Elitists in general are assholes.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 13, 2007, 04:42:29 PM
Tell me about it
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: Himu on February 13, 2007, 04:44:17 PM
2001 sucks, so this person was probably right.

Kubrick's movies are completely fucking different from the next. So even if you hate 2001, chances are you'll love Clockwork.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: Yeti on February 13, 2007, 04:50:10 PM
In my experiences it is more like Kubrick fans look down upon film circles.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: APF on February 13, 2007, 04:53:13 PM
Isn't this kinda like saying Hemmingway is a hack, then saying your favorite book is Harry Potter?
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: The Fake Shemp on February 13, 2007, 05:03:42 PM
Kubrick is easily the most overrated director of all-time, and seems to be the chic pick for people wanting to seem like they enjoy edgy cinema, but he's not a hack and he has several good films.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: Himu on February 13, 2007, 05:04:45 PM
Kubrick is easily the most overrated director of all-time, and seems to be the chic pick for people wanting to seem like they enjoy edgy cinema, but he's not a hack and he has several good films.

Even more overrated than Lucas?
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: Beezy on February 13, 2007, 05:05:43 PM
Film Elitists in general are assholes.

Yep.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: The Fake Shemp on February 13, 2007, 05:07:57 PM
Even more overrated than Lucas?

Star Wars fans even think Lucas is a bad director and a worse writer.  I remember all the clamoring for different directors and writers to do the prequels, making Lucas a producer and a STORY BY credit (which is where I think he's best).
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: Cheebs on February 13, 2007, 05:08:13 PM
critics tend to adore him
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: The Fake Shemp on February 13, 2007, 05:10:08 PM
Who, Kubrick or Lucas?  I guess critics have a soft spot for Lucas, but they never mention his directing skills, but rather his storytelling skills.  He's often praised as a visionary, but a barely competent director.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: Cheebs on February 13, 2007, 05:11:05 PM
Who, Kubrick or Lucas?  I guess critics have a soft spot for Lucas, but they never mention his directing skills, but rather his storytelling skills.  He's often praised as a visionary, but a barely competent director.
Kubrick of course.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: The Fake Shemp on February 13, 2007, 05:14:26 PM
That's because he's a good director that made films that were very different, especially in terms of structure, then what was out there.  He's good, but he's not Godly and he does have several duds underneath his belt.  And especially in terms of churning out a completely, wholely entertaining film experience, he's got maybe one or two of those.  I forget who said watching a Kubrick film is like watching two-thirds of a great movie and one-third of a boring one, but that description is usually pretty accurate.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: APF on February 13, 2007, 05:16:26 PM
Kubrick shot beautiful films with no soul.  That's the extent of my film-analysis.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: The Fake Shemp on February 13, 2007, 05:17:28 PM
APF, I know we're Republicans, but can't we make a brief exemption for man-on-man love?  Just this once?
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: Van Cruncheon on February 13, 2007, 05:22:22 PM
most film circles are just fanboys without any real academic credentials or aspirations. as i told tvc, if comic books or video games were academic disciplines, they'd enroll in those programs instead of film.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on February 13, 2007, 05:37:58 PM
Kubrick is easily the most overrated director of all-time, and seems to be the chic pick for people wanting to seem like they enjoy edgy cinema, but he's not a hack and he has several good films.

 ::)
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: TakingBackSunday on February 13, 2007, 05:44:51 PM
What, he's telling the truth.  A Clockwork Orange is truly his best work and everything else he's worked on has had great premise and image but pretty average execution.  ACO is the only film I ever saw by Kubrick that broke that tradition.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on February 13, 2007, 05:47:13 PM
Pretty average execution? You guys are fucking delusional; Kubrick was a storytelling master, who was technically waaaaay ahead of most every director of his time.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: Van Cruncheon on February 13, 2007, 05:49:23 PM
no-one does the long shot like kubrick. no-one. however, he's not an auteur in the way many french new wave and italian directors were; he just doesn't play with space and narrative in really challenging ways, and i'd argue he doesn't direct actors as well as some other top-flight directors. hell, i think scorsese directs actors better.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on February 13, 2007, 05:49:46 PM
Kubrick is the director that wannabe film enthusiasts pick as their favorite director.


Dinky, you're a dumb ass if you dont think Kubrick was an Auteur.  :lol :lol
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: Van Cruncheon on February 13, 2007, 05:50:54 PM
learn to read, plz
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on February 13, 2007, 05:52:29 PM
Kubrick never seemed interested in directing actors, it seems. 2001 is the greatest example of this; the film hardly needed actors, or a script even. Yet Kubrick still managed to make it a haunting visual masterpiece.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on February 13, 2007, 05:53:27 PM
learn to read, plz

Stealth edit  :ninja
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on February 13, 2007, 05:54:26 PM
Kubrick never seemed interested in directing actors, it seems. 2001 is the greatest example of this; the film hardly needed actors, or a script even. Yet Kubrick still managed to make it a haunting visual masterpiece.

That's because he was a photogrpaher. I'll give him credit for having some beautiful viduals in his movies.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: Van Cruncheon on February 13, 2007, 05:55:19 PM
i added "in really challenging ways" 'cuz while i like what he did in 2001, i don't find kubrick films make me think much.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on February 13, 2007, 05:56:51 PM
Kubrick never seemed interested in directing actors, it seems. 2001 is the greatest example of this; the film hardly needed actors, or a script even. Yet Kubrick still managed to make it a haunting visual masterpiece.

That's because he was a photogrpaher. I'll give him credit for having some beautiful viduals in his movies.

So being a photographer is some kind of excuse? There are plenty of photographers with horrible visual flare; its not something you can learn in school (TUT TUT). ;)
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on February 13, 2007, 05:58:56 PM
i added "in really challenging ways" 'cuz while i like what he did in 2001, i don't find kubrick films make me think much.

 ::) Ok Chief.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on February 13, 2007, 06:00:16 PM
[So being a photographer is some kind of excuse? There are plenty of photographers with horrible visual flare; its not something you can learn in school (TUT TUT). ;)

I wasn't making an excuse, what are you even talking about. i was merely pointing out a reason why is directing abilities might have been weaker than his visual aesthetic.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on February 13, 2007, 06:02:52 PM
So one minute you have no problem with Kubrick, the next you're posting shit like:

Quote
Kubrick is the director that wannabe film enthusiasts pick as their favorite director.

You know what I think? You DO like Kubrick, but certain snobs you've encountered have dulled your senses and scared you away from admitting your love for him to anyone else. ;)
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on February 13, 2007, 06:08:12 PM
I havent contradicted myself at all.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on February 13, 2007, 06:10:32 PM
Plus, weren't you the one who was hating on 2001 for having no story? Yet you praise a director for having a beautiful visual style, while condemning his greatest visual masterwork. ::)
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on February 13, 2007, 06:13:05 PM
Plus, weren't you the one who was hating on 2001 for having no story? Yet you praise a director for having a beautiful visual style, while condemning his greatest visual masterwork. ::)

FYI: Visuals and story telling are not the same thing. A movie can have great visuals and no story. Experimental films and David lynch films are often like that. Then you can have movies with crappy visuals but great stories, Kevin Smith for example. then you have movies with both, like Michael Gondry.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on February 13, 2007, 06:16:29 PM
I know this, but apparently you don't see 2001 the same way most sane people do: its a film with an abstract storytelling style, that focuses mainly on the visuals to tell the story.

LOLZ BUT NO ONE IS TELLING ME WHAT'S HAPPENING is a shitty argument when you talk about 2001.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on February 13, 2007, 06:18:16 PM
I could show you a series of 10 random pictures and ask you to connect it with a made up story. That doesnt make me a great storyteller.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on February 13, 2007, 06:19:43 PM
I could show you a series of 10 random pictures and ask you to connect it with a made up story. That doesnt make me a great storyteller.

Are you deliberately missing the point, or what?
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on February 13, 2007, 06:19:59 PM
what's your point?
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on February 13, 2007, 06:21:45 PM
You don't need to have a character telling you what's going on if you allow yourself to be guided through the story by the director, and in 2001's case, the visuals.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on February 13, 2007, 06:24:43 PM
You don't need to have a character telling you what's going on if you allow yourself to be guided through the story by the director, and in 2001's case, the visuals.

2001 does not have a story its simple as that. i understand that you dont need to have characters telling you whats going on, but all kubrick did was thread a few scens together and called it a day. It looks great, but nowhere in there did i get that the monolith was causing HAL to malfunction and that Dave turned into some kind of super human.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: Himu on February 13, 2007, 06:26:53 PM
........HAL didn't malfunction because of the monolith. He knew that the trip to Jupiter would make human so significant and powerful they wouldn't need him any longer. That's why he said he was skeptical about the mission to Dave at one point. Also, his "malfunction" was logical human error, after all, he was designed to have human logics.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: makaveli on February 13, 2007, 06:28:02 PM
goddamn you people take your movies seriously
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on February 13, 2007, 06:28:11 PM
........HAL didn't malfunction because of the monolith. He knew that the trip to Jupiter would make human so significant and powerful they wouldn't need him any longer. That's why he said he was skeptical about the mission to Dave" at one point. Also, his "malfunction" was logical human error, after all, he was designed to have human logics.

I must have missed this very important and critical scene. I WONDER why I didnt see it?

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Probably because it wasnt in the fucking movie.
[close]
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: Himu on February 13, 2007, 06:28:34 PM
What are you talking about?
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: Cheebs on February 13, 2007, 06:33:35 PM
goddamn you people take your movies seriously
you take black people too seriously.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: Robo on February 13, 2007, 06:34:48 PM
These Kubrick threads are getting old, Himuro.  You're always gonna find some asshole that wants to shit on your taste in everything.  Kubrick isn't a new topic in this little game.


And FoC, why the fuck did you just cite Kevin Smith as a great storyteller?  :lol
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on February 13, 2007, 06:35:28 PM
These Kubrick threads are getting old, Himuro.  You're always gonna find some asshole that wants to shit on your taste in everything.  Kubrick isn't a new topic in this little game.


And FoC, why the fuck did you just cite Kevin Smith as a great storyteller?  :lol

Cause he makes good stories out of two talking heads. Hes on the opposite end of the spectrum.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: Robo on February 13, 2007, 06:37:29 PM
He's told one good story five times, man.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on February 13, 2007, 06:38:23 PM
He's told one good story five times, man.

I enjoyed them each time.

You missed the point of what I was trying to say, there are different types od directors and they do things diffrently
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on February 13, 2007, 06:42:17 PM
KEVIN SMITH > KOOBRIK

LOLZ
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on February 13, 2007, 06:44:09 PM
KEVIN SMITH > KOOBRIK

LOLZ

I've seen mallrats many more times than 2001. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.  :gun
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: Robo on February 13, 2007, 06:45:10 PM
I understood what you were saying, your example just threw me for a loop.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on February 13, 2007, 06:45:26 PM
But in all honesty, how did you weasle your way into a film school? :rofl
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on February 13, 2007, 06:46:06 PM
A better example of storytelling w/ no visual flare would be Yasushiro Ozu, imo.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on February 13, 2007, 06:46:21 PM
But in all honesty, how did you weasle your way into a film school? :rofl

Cause im not the typical film fegs that get off on the same shit. People like you are a dime a dozen (even in school)
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: Van Cruncheon on February 13, 2007, 06:47:54 PM
what makes a fanboy is the inability to separate personal preference from technical quality, as ever

hence we have praise for star fucking wars
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on February 13, 2007, 06:48:11 PM
People like me? There are far more people like you, who think Lucas and Smith are the gods of cinema, than people like me. People like me are just more vocal, and usually more pasionate. ;)
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on February 13, 2007, 06:52:29 PM
I never ever said they are the gods of cinema. Not even close.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: Van Cruncheon on February 13, 2007, 06:52:51 PM
who are your gods of cinema, foc
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on February 13, 2007, 06:52:55 PM
I never ever said they are the gods of cinema. Not even close.

We all know where your allegiance lies, dude.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on February 13, 2007, 06:54:01 PM
God forbid my favorite movie is a movie i enjoy and watched alot.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on February 13, 2007, 06:55:30 PM
God forbid my favorite movie is a movie i enjoy and watched alot.

Yet people that find more entertainment in Kubrick films are snobby elitists? Grow up, dude.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: Van Cruncheon on February 13, 2007, 06:58:22 PM
my favorite movie -- Raiders -- ain't so hot on a technical level. i wish Kubrick had directed it!
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on February 13, 2007, 06:58:44 PM
my favorite movie -- Raiders -- ain't so hot on a technical level. i wish Kubrick had directed it!

:bow
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 13, 2007, 07:06:45 PM
Who even argues that Lucas is a mastermind director? The best Star Wars is the first one he didn't direct - Empire Strikes Back. As Willco said, he's respected as a great storyteller in film. I just wish he would have gotten together with Spielberg for more stuff; let Steven direct, George come up with the story, and whoever wrote RAIDERS write it. Over and over again. That would be awesome.

Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on February 13, 2007, 07:08:55 PM
Who even argues that Lucas is a mastermind director? The best Star Wars is the first one he didn't direct - Empire Strikes Back. As Willco said, he's respected as a great storyteller in film. I just wish he would have gotten together with Spielberg for more stuff; let Steven direct, George come up with the story, and whoever wrote RAIDERS write it. Over and over again. That would be awesome.


Dude, do you think your average moviegoer knows this? They think Lucas directed all six Star Wars films, and thus is a genius beyond all reasonable doubt. The hard truth -- most people are fucking morons.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: makaveli on February 13, 2007, 07:10:14 PM
goddamn you people take your movies seriously
you take black people too seriously.
lmao your obsessed with me
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 13, 2007, 07:12:27 PM
Who even argues that Lucas is a mastermind director? The best Star Wars is the first one he didn't direct - Empire Strikes Back. As Willco said, he's respected as a great storyteller in film. I just wish he would have gotten together with Spielberg for more stuff; let Steven direct, George come up with the story, and whoever wrote RAIDERS write it. Over and over again. That would be awesome.


Dude, do you think your average moviegoer knows this? They think Lucas directed all six Star Wars films, and thus is a genius beyond all reasonable doubt. The hard truth -- most people are fucking morons.

True. The jump in quality from ANH to ESB is amazing. Obviously a lot of that can be credited to the great story Lucas came up with, but Kershner's direction was also very key. He made it more than just a sci fi adventure movie by adding layers of drama that had nothing to do with the action.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on February 13, 2007, 07:14:32 PM
Hell, I've had to PROVE to friends by hitting up IMDB that Lucas didn't direct ESB or RotJ, and even THEN they assume IMDB is just incorrect. :rofl
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 13, 2007, 07:21:16 PM
He's definitely a great talent. And he did direct American Graffiti which is considered his masterpiece from a directoral perspective.

Now that he's done with big budget Star Wars movies he has time to direct the movies he wants. Can't wait to see the tuskegee movie; that could be fucking badass, especially if he gets together a good cast (Denzel and Dennis Haysworth PLZ no Jamie Foxx)
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on February 13, 2007, 07:22:57 PM
You actually believe that crap? Lucas has been talking about doing other projects for decades, yet always comes back to retinker the Star Wars universe. Its hard to believe he's still capable of anything else.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 13, 2007, 07:25:01 PM
You actually believe that crap? Lucas has been talking about doing other projects for decades, yet always comes back to retinker the Star Wars universe. Its hard to believe he's still capable of anything else.

I think he'll feel rejuvinated once Indy 4 is done, especially if it becomes successful.  I certainly don't want to see him waste away his life doing TV shit. Spielberg is still making amazing movies
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: Himu on February 13, 2007, 07:26:41 PM
Spielberg. Meh.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on February 13, 2007, 07:27:18 PM
Spielberg has always been keeping himself busy, though. For the last 30 years Lucas has done nothing really new with his career, apart from the Indy series (which, oddly enough, is still being milked as well).
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: Himu on February 13, 2007, 07:29:05 PM
Lucas's influence has even managed to come onto his game company Lucasarts. They used to do top of the line non Star Wars shit and hten all of a suddent Ep1 comes and they stop and only develop/publish SW games. Fuck Lucas. I hate him.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on February 13, 2007, 07:29:31 PM
Lucas's influence has even managed to come onto his game company Lucasarts. They used to do top of the line non Star Wars shit and hten all of a suddent Ep1 comes and they stop and only develop/publish SW games. Fuck Lucas. I hate him.

There's that, too.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: Cheebs on February 13, 2007, 07:37:07 PM
Shake Lucas DID direct ROTJ. He isn't credited for it however. It turned out Marquand was in over his head and Lucas took over un-credited. The direct of ESB and the actors all cite this but Lucas won't go on record out of respect to the dead director. But it is safe to say ROTJ is directed by Lucas.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on February 13, 2007, 07:38:13 PM
Shake Lucas DID direct ROTJ. He isn't credited for it however. It turned out Marquand was in over his head and Lucas took over un-credited. The direct of ESB and the actors all cite this but Lucas won't go on record out of respect to the dead director. But it is safe to say ROTJ is directed by Lucas.

I've already had this argument at GAF. If he's not credited at all as Director, then I don't consider him the director.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: brawndolicious on February 13, 2007, 07:44:51 PM
That's a shitty idea.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: Cheebs on February 13, 2007, 09:42:58 PM
Shake Lucas DID direct ROTJ. He isn't credited for it however. It turned out Marquand was in over his head and Lucas took over un-credited. The direct of ESB and the actors all cite this but Lucas won't go on record out of respect to the dead director. But it is safe to say ROTJ is directed by Lucas.

I've already had this argument at GAF. If he's not credited at all as Director, then I don't consider him the director.
so who gets paid is more important than who did the work?
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: Solo on February 14, 2007, 08:18:17 AM
Im late to this distinguished mentally-challenged debate. My 2 cents: who gives a shit? I love Kubrick dearly, despite the fact that many people love to hate on him. Yes, his films are cold and detached, but thats always been part of his charm for me.

In conclusion: like what you like, Himu, and fuck what others think.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: Cheebs on February 14, 2007, 08:25:18 AM
Im late to this distinguished mentally-challenged debate. My 2 cents: who gives a shit? I love Kubrick dearly, despite the fact that many people love to hate on him. Yes, his films are cold and detached, but thats always been part of his charm for me.

In conclusion: like what you like, Himu, and fuck what others think.
I am curious what your view is on the ROTJ directing "debacle" a post are two up. Do you agree that whoever is paid and is in the credits deserves the title of director of a film or the one who does all the directing but remains un-credited for it due to reasons of paying Marquand and the like?
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: Solo on February 14, 2007, 08:29:09 AM
I think I wouldnt want my name attached as director of ROTJ either  :lol WELL PLAYED GEORGE
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on February 14, 2007, 08:29:43 AM
Fuck you Cheebs.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
:-*
[close]
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: Cheebs on February 14, 2007, 08:30:52 AM
I think I wouldnt want my name attached as director of ROTJ either  :lol WELL PLAYED GEORGE
I said ignoring your views on the film!  :lol Thinking about as films as a WHOLE not your views on star wars. Which would you consider the director(assuming you knew someone elese directed the film un-credited) on a film?
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: Solo on February 14, 2007, 08:32:14 AM
I think in a case where the hired director doesnt do the job, and the film is ghost-directed, then the credit should go to Alan Smithee.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on February 14, 2007, 08:33:12 AM
The Marquand stuff has always struck me as revisionist bullshit, to try and undermine whatever work he DID do on the film so as not to hit any snags on the SE versions.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: Cheebs on February 14, 2007, 08:54:12 AM
The Marquand stuff has always struck me as revisionist bullshit, to try and undermine whatever work he DID do on the film so as not to hit any snags on the SE versions.
No it is not. This has been said since the film came out. The ESB director has stated Marquand did not direct it but Lucas with help from his(the esb director's) assistant. Carrie Fisher continues to call Lucas the director of ROTJ, and a camera man on ROTJ quit saying he did not like how Lucas took over the project from Lucas. Lucas refuses to officially say anything out of respect but he has a few times slipped and called himself the director.
Apparently Lucas let Marquand direct some of the close ups and that it, since he was very poor at doing the epic sci-fi stuff and did not understand the sfx.

Also look at any behind the scene footage of ROTJ. You ALWAYS see Lucas on set "directing" and talking to the crew and cast. You rarely see Marquand.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on February 14, 2007, 10:06:29 AM
Well then, credit it to Alan Smithee, like Solo suggested.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: Cheebs on February 14, 2007, 10:09:59 AM
I agree. I think he did it because Marquand was not in the best of health and died a few short years after it hit theaters. But Alan Smithee would make the most sense, but in the end Lucas did not direct the best directed episode in the saga as is.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on February 14, 2007, 10:10:46 AM
I agree. I think he did it because Marquand was not in the best of health and died a few short years after it hit theaters. But Alan Smithee would make the most sense, but in the end Lucas did not direct the best directed episode in the saga as is.

Whoa... RotJ, the best episode? Have you seen Empire Strikes Back or what?
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: makaveli on February 14, 2007, 10:18:09 AM
do you actuale think your gonna change it others minds
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on February 14, 2007, 10:19:26 AM
do you actuale think your gonna change it others minds

 ???
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: CajoleJuice on February 14, 2007, 10:21:22 AM
do you actuale think your gonna change it others minds

 ???

am nintendo is cloning himself
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on February 14, 2007, 10:21:54 AM
but do you actuale think this am true
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: Cheebs on February 14, 2007, 12:04:17 PM
I agree. I think he did it because Marquand was not in the best of health and died a few short years after it hit theaters. But Alan Smithee would make the most sense, but in the end Lucas did not direct the best directed episode in the saga as is.

Whoa... RotJ, the best episode? Have you seen Empire Strikes Back or what?
I said Lucas did NOT direct the best episode in the saga.

That is ESB since that is the only episode he did no direct.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on February 14, 2007, 12:11:48 PM
But, officially, he didn't direct RotJ either. ;)
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: Cheebs on February 14, 2007, 12:15:50 PM
But, officially, he didn't direct RotJ either. ;)
He directed the movie even though his name is not on it. Superman II never mentioned Donner's name yet he still directed 45%~ of the film.

The lack of a credit does not erase one's work.

Ian McDirmad did not get a credit for ESB on the DVD, does that mean he never was in it? Same with James Earl Jones and ROTS.
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: The Fake Shemp on February 14, 2007, 12:17:46 PM
That's because James Earl Jones was ashamed to be in Revenge of the Sith.  It was his worst moment in movie history...

"NOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOO!"
Title: Re: Are Kubrick fans look down upon in film circles?
Post by: Cheebs on February 14, 2007, 12:19:54 PM
That's because James Earl Jones was ashamed to be in Revenge of the Sith.  It was his worst moment in movie history...

"NOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOO!"
James Earl Jones rambled about how excited he was for that one scene for like 5 years before ROTS even came out, it was getting weird.