THE BORE

General => The Superdeep Borehole => Topic started by: brawndolicious on March 28, 2007, 07:52:09 PM

Title: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: brawndolicious on March 28, 2007, 07:52:09 PM: webcast:
http://webcast.berkeley.edu/stream.php?type=real&webcastid=19171]http://webcast.berkeley.edu/stream.php?typ...webcastid=19171

He says that Immanual Kant brought up the questions "If the universe had a beginning why did it wait an infinite amount of time before it began?" or the opposite "If the universe had existed forever why did it take an infinite amount of time to reach the present stage?" and that time only exists inside of the universe "nothing south of the south pole" and "if the universe was essentially unchanging in time, as was generally assumed before the 1920's, there would be no reason that time should not be defined arbitrarily far back. Any so-called beginning of the universe would be artificial in the sense that one could extend the history back to earlier times. Thus it might be that the universe was created last year but with all the memories and physical evidence to look like it was much older."

Start at around 22 minutes. He then says that we can tell if our observations of how the universe works make sense to us but not if the theories we make are realistic.
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: TakingBackSunday on March 28, 2007, 08:02:02 PM: That shit makes my head explode.

This may be too basic...but isn't it scientific FACT (being that NOTHING can make it untrue) that energy is neither created or destroyed? And that the matter of the universe is always the same amount, never changing? Then how the fuck can this be true?

I'm assuming it comes down to larger scientific theories that I just won't be able to grasp. Oh well.
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: Candyflip on March 28, 2007, 08:03:02 PM: It will take a lot of schooling for me to even be able to really comprehend what any of this means. Hawking is like a present day Einstein, ridiculous.
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: brawndolicious on March 28, 2007, 08:10:42 PM: What he said was about time. Not matter.

We can't define matter (God).

So we look at how we define time (infinite).

We just powned ourselves.

I actually quoted some of the slides if you want to go through them again.
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: Candyflip on March 28, 2007, 08:20:34 PM: Anyone read A Brief History Of Time? I heard it was actually understandable to most people. I want to look for it next time I pass by a Barnes n Noble.
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: Madrun Badrun on March 28, 2007, 08:23:05 PM: I think I just watched this speech on youtube yesterday.
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: brawndolicious on March 28, 2007, 08:25:10 PM: It's about an hour, first 20 minutes are somebody introducing him.
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on March 28, 2007, 08:29:26 PM: I have read a "Brief History of Time" and found it incredibly fascinating. It's easy to read, and has some mind bending material.
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on March 28, 2007, 08:33:06 PM: Quote from: BrandNew on March 28, 2007, 08:02:02 PM
That shit makes my head explode.

This may be too basic...but isn't it scientific FACT (being that NOTHING can make it untrue) that energy is neither created or destroyed? And that the matter of the universe is always the same amount, never changing? Then how the fuck can this be true?

I'm assuming it comes down to larger scientific theories that I just won't be able to grasp. Oh well.

Within our understanding of the universe, yes this is true but we dont know everything. Hawking has no real basis to describe the state of the universe before or at the moment of the big bang.
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: brawndolicious on March 28, 2007, 08:40:40 PM: When does he talk about the big bang?
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on March 28, 2007, 09:32:34 PM: Ok smart ass, the singularity that is "the beginning of the universe"
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: brawndolicious on March 28, 2007, 09:39:58 PM: You have no idea what this thread is about obviously.
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on March 28, 2007, 09:42:24 PM: Scientist asks questions about the beginning of the universe. Hawking answers. Anyone that has taken even an intro astronomy class knows that anything the moment of or before the singularity is of no concern and we will never know because of the break down of all the physical laws that make our universe.
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: Phoenix Dark on March 28, 2007, 09:49:53 PM: Something was created out of nothing? Interesting
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: brawndolicious on March 28, 2007, 10:20:47 PM: He said we can't tell the difference between whether something really happened or whether it appeared to. Hubble thought that as many galaxies would move towards us as away but found that the further galaxies were, the faster they were moving away. The universe was not unchanging with time. That means at one point, the galaxies were on top of each other. Scientists were unhappy with this idea because that suggested that at one point physics broke down. One would have to invoke an outside agency (god) to determine how the universe began which made them advance theories that the universe is currently expanding but didn't have a beginning. One theory was the Steady State Theory that as galaxies moved apart, new galaxies would be formed from matter that was supposed to continually being created throughout space. The universe would have existed for ever, and would have looked the same at all times. The Cambridge radio astronomy group did a survey of weak radio sources in the 1960s, these were distributed fairly uniformly across the sky indicating that most sources lay outside our galaxy. The weaker sources would lay outside our galaxy on average. The Steady State Theory predicted the shape of the graph of the number of sources against source strength. But the observations showed more faint sources than predicted indicating that the density sources was higher in the past this was contrary to the basic assumption of the Steady State Theory that everything was constant in time. For this, and other reasons, the Steady State Theory was abandoned.

Now you being a fucking idiot, are not going to watch the video.
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: Cheebs on March 28, 2007, 10:33:43 PM: Carl Sagan > Hawking
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: drozmight on March 28, 2007, 10:43:02 PM: Guys like Steven Hawking piss me off... they sit around pondering all this shit that doesn't really make the world a better place. Why don't they solve Africa or something?
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: Flannel Boy on March 28, 2007, 10:46:44 PM: Quote from: drozmight on March 28, 2007, 10:43:02 PM
Guys like Steven Hawking piss me off... they sit around pondering all this shit that doesn't really make the world a better place. Why don't they solve Africa or something?

(http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40057000/jpg/_40057813_fryandlaurie_bbc_300x220.jpg)
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: Cheebs on March 28, 2007, 10:54:14 PM: Solve Africa?
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: G The Resurrected on March 28, 2007, 11:03:44 PM: my grandfather thanks you he wanted to watch this but didnt know how to. Thanks for the link.
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: brawndolicious on March 28, 2007, 11:18:39 PM: no problem, saw it on oa.
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: MrAngryFace on March 28, 2007, 11:30:14 PM: For everyone who wants the friendly version of this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_big_bang

I've actually done a bit of reading into this subject and I wont even pretend I have a grasp on it.
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: BlueTsunami on March 28, 2007, 11:36:34 PM: Even in Full Metal Alchemist its stated you need something of Equal Value to create something different of equal value. FMA > Hawkings.

I also have a sneaking suspicioun that Hawkings is just randomly pounding words into his lil wheel chair computer.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm joking by the way. I just re read my post and it came off too sincere without anything that looks like sarcasm. Bless my heart
[close]
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: MrAngryFace on March 28, 2007, 11:38:06 PM: Alchemy is not a science lol. AND U SIR ARE TROLLING ME.
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: brawndolicious on March 28, 2007, 11:39:59 PM: This is about before the Big Bang.
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: BlueTsunami on March 28, 2007, 11:40:08 PM: :cookiem
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: MrAngryFace on March 28, 2007, 11:41:54 PM: am nintenho: who cares, my wiki link is far more interesting than your incoherent ramblings coupled with quotes from a really smart man.

Besides, shit doesnt REALLY get interesting until you start talking "time" travel and the multiverse theories. The idea that if we go back in time we dont actually stay in our own universe BECAUSE:

(http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/7833/lolquantumjokevp2.jpg)
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on March 28, 2007, 11:43:00 PM: Quote from: am nintenho on March 28, 2007, 10:20:47 PM
Now you being a fucking idiot, are not going to watch the video.

Nothing you wrote contradicted what I said. It's like you are spewing forth random wikipedia quotes.
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: Madrun Badrun on March 28, 2007, 11:46:32 PM: :lol, solve Africa?

Quote from: Cheebs on March 28, 2007, 10:54:14 PM
Solve Africa?

Final solution bitches. Sorry Beezy, Himu looks like drozmight is going to gas your asses. PD I bet you can pass.
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: MrAngryFace on March 28, 2007, 11:47:19 PM: I think we should solve mexico first.
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: Madrun Badrun on March 28, 2007, 11:49:17 PM: Quote from: MrAngryFace on March 28, 2007, 11:47:19 PM
I think we should solve mexico first.

I thought that was being fixed with a fence?
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on March 28, 2007, 11:50:49 PM: Quote from: Father_Mike on March 28, 2007, 11:49:17 PM
Quote from: MrAngryFace on March 28, 2007, 11:47:19 PM
I think we should solve mexico first.

I thought that was being fixed with a fence?

Nah its being fixed by nobody wanting to live there anymore.
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: MrAngryFace on March 28, 2007, 11:53:56 PM: I think its slowly being solved by offensive GRAW titles.
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: Flannel Boy on March 28, 2007, 11:54:24 PM: Quote from: MrAngryFace on March 28, 2007, 11:47:19 PM
I think we should solve mexico first.
Mexico is solving its problems much like a dog solves its flea problems, by giving them to someone else.
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: MrAngryFace on March 28, 2007, 11:56:06 PM: 51st thru 60th state coming through!
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: Mupepe on March 28, 2007, 11:56:28 PM: We should free the shit out of Mexico. Seriously. And El Salvador.
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: Flannel Boy on March 28, 2007, 11:57:50 PM: Quote from: Mupepe on March 28, 2007, 11:56:28 PM
We should free the shit out of Mexico. Seriously. And El Salvador.
I don't know what that means.
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: Mupepe on March 29, 2007, 12:00:19 AM: (http://www.imagemule.com/uploads/freeedomkh6urRT.jpg)
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: ToxicAdam on March 29, 2007, 12:07:18 AM: Steven Hawkings has gotten more pussy than 80% of Evilbore. That's mind bending.
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: brawndolicious on March 29, 2007, 12:10:02 AM: MAF, did you just say hearing a genious explain things to people hopefully with half his IQ sounds like me? Because I copied over what he was saying word for word.

Think about it like this, the closer you get to the center of your ass, the hairier it is. Now you want to find something hairier then your ass, IT'S IMPOSSIBLE.

'kay?

You get what I'm talking about?
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: Flannel Boy on March 29, 2007, 12:10:17 AM: Quote from: ToxicAdam on March 29, 2007, 12:07:18 AM
Steven Hawkings has gotten more pussy than 80% of Evilbore. That's mind bending.

Not really all that mind bending.
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: drozmight on March 29, 2007, 12:19:01 AM: Quote from: Father_Mike on March 28, 2007, 11:46:32 PM
looks like drozmight is going to gas your asses.

(http://home.comcast.net/~drozmight/felix.jpg)
"PD will recieve no such pass from me."
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: Madrun Badrun on March 29, 2007, 12:19:58 AM: :lol
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: MrAngryFace on March 29, 2007, 12:34:29 AM: AmNintenho still has no clue whats up. Poor guy. Read some wiki
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: BlueTsunami on March 29, 2007, 12:40:23 AM: This thread is like Memento :lol. I think, if I read the posts in random order it will all make sense.
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: brawndolicious on March 29, 2007, 12:42:37 AM: MAF, do you really not understand that this isn't about the Big Bang?
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: Phoenix Dark on March 29, 2007, 02:17:58 AM: Quote from: drozmight on March 28, 2007, 10:43:02 PM
Guys like Steven Hawking piss me off... they sit around pondering all this shit that doesn't really make the world a better place. Why don't they solve Africa or something?

Africa is solving itself. In 10 years it won't be a problem
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: MrAngryFace on March 29, 2007, 02:33:43 AM: IM DRHK WHO CARS ABOUT BIG BAG
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: Candyflip on April 20, 2007, 04:14:52 AM: Bump to say this video is nuts. Hard to grasp to say the least. Never watched it up until now. I feel sort of in the dark. I have no understanding whatsoever of quantum mechanics, so that doesn't help. The main part I'm confused on is, of course, how the point of singularity came to be. From nothing. "Physical laws and the General Theory of Relativity would break down under such extreme conditions." So, what, time was a constant? So confused.
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: Phoenix Dark on April 20, 2007, 04:17:40 AM: The thing I find most interesting is that he says the universe was created from nothing. In other words, something was created from nothing. My mind is blown.

Faith is awesome
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: CajoleJuice on April 20, 2007, 04:17:59 AM: It's really best not to think about it too much.

How do you think Hawking ended up like that.
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: Candyflip on April 20, 2007, 05:38:36 AM: Quote from: CajoleJuice on April 20, 2007, 04:17:59 AM
It's really best not to think about it too much.

How do you think Hawking ended up like that.
I always figured it was the other way around.

nintenho (or whoever else), I'll love you forever if you can help me out here. (http://www.evilbore.com/forum/index.php?topic=7017.msg184027#msg184027)
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: brawndolicious on April 20, 2007, 03:45:41 PM: Quote from: Mute on April 20, 2007, 04:14:52 AM
Bump to say this video is nuts. Hard to grasp to say the least. Never watched it up until now. I feel sort of in the dark. I have no understanding whatsoever of quantum mechanics, so that doesn't help. The main part I'm confused on is, of course, how the point of singularity came to be. From nothing. "Physical laws and the General Theory of Relativity would break down under such extreme conditions." So, what, time was a constant? So confused.
General Theory of Relativity is only of how the universe acts after it began, so there has to be a more complete theory (quantum theory) that matters when you stretch the universe to a plank size (billion, trillion, trillionth of a centimeter) but normally the General Theory of Relativity is accurate enough.

One theory is that we can look at the probability of a certain event happening (moon made out of cheese) compared to what we think and saying it's probability, the problem is that we can only look at probability and not whether something is a fact or not.

Does the universe begin with a creator decreeing everything (as we claim) or does it start with a scientific law (which we also claim)? You can think of all the ways possible but not prove it. The theory that the universe comes from nothing is that general theory of relativity and quantum theory require and allow it to exist meaining the universe is self-contained and governed by science alone.
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: Candyflip on April 20, 2007, 08:50:28 PM: What a mindfuck.
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: brawndolicious on April 20, 2007, 09:08:38 PM: it's actually pretty simple but explaining it gets complicated, that's probably why most people who study it are scientists that went to school for a reason.
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: Candyflip on April 20, 2007, 09:34:02 PM: What kind of math is required to have a pretty good understanding of advanced physics and cosmology? I tend to forget most math a year after I learn it ::)
Title: Re: Stephen Hawkings says our universe was created from nothing.
Post by: brawndolicious on April 20, 2007, 09:48:01 PM: Proofs?

I honestly don't know what they do mathematically.