THE BORE

General => Dysfunctional Hall of Fame => Topic started by: cool breeze on January 20, 2009, 12:03:44 PM

Title: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics
Post by: cool breeze on January 20, 2009, 12:03:44 PM
and yo-yo ma is playing
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: demi on January 20, 2009, 12:04:13 PM
I'm watching it on TV... the online feeds are booked and lagged
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Beardo on January 20, 2009, 12:04:18 PM
Is Obama that black guy thats on all the TV all the time?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: CajoleJuice on January 20, 2009, 12:05:20 PM
I'm just listening to an audio stream since all the vidoe streams are fucked.

Plus, my officemate just got rickrolled trying to find one.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: AdmiralViscen on January 20, 2009, 12:06:47 PM
lol he fucked up the oath

right-wing nuts are already preparing their court documents to prove he's not really president
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ManaByte on January 20, 2009, 12:07:00 PM
(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.wowinsider.com/media/2008/12/ah121708obamabig.jpg)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: cool breeze on January 20, 2009, 12:07:29 PM
people are actually chanting "CHANGE!"  :lol
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eel O'Brian on January 20, 2009, 12:09:41 PM
as long as he keep a muzzle on biden and makes sure he doesn't show up at functions in his pajamas and slippers, he's pretty much got a free pass this go around
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Beardo on January 20, 2009, 12:09:57 PM
people are actually chanting "CHANGE!"  :lol


They probably believe he's gonna be that change too. lol
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Rman on January 20, 2009, 12:11:05 PM
Such a hater, Beardo.  :lol
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on January 20, 2009, 12:12:39 PM
the puppet is in place, it has come to pass

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: CajoleJuice on January 20, 2009, 12:13:01 PM
lol he fucked up the oath

right-wing nuts are already preparing their court documents to prove he's not really president

how did he fuck up? i was half paying attention
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mr. Gundam on January 20, 2009, 12:13:14 PM
I've got it on the radio in my office, but I'm DVRing it at home.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: AdmiralViscen on January 20, 2009, 12:14:52 PM
lol he fucked up the oath

right-wing nuts are already preparing their court documents to prove he's not really president

how did he fuck up? i was half paying attention

He forgot a line, stood there staring at the Justice, waiting for him to repeat it
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: cool breeze on January 20, 2009, 12:15:08 PM
lol he fucked up the oath

right-wing nuts are already preparing their court documents to prove he's not really president

how did he fuck up? i was half paying attention

yeah, I didn't notice that.  It did feel rushed, but I don't think it was messed up.  Only thing messed up was saying H. instead of his full middle name.

He forgot a line, stood there staring at the Justice, waiting for him to repeat it

didn't notice that then
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: BlueTsunami on January 20, 2009, 12:16:05 PM
4 year term, end of the world is 2012. "Beware the leader who promises change" :o
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on January 20, 2009, 12:16:47 PM
the chief justice got the wording wrong, so Obama messed up

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: demi on January 20, 2009, 12:17:08 PM
Boring speech. Turned it off.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: cool breeze on January 20, 2009, 12:17:53 PM
Boring speech. Turned it off.

you can always read it

spoiler (click to show/hide)
My fellow citizens:

I stand here today humbled by the task before us, grateful for the trust you have bestowed, mindful of the sacrifices borne by our ancestors. I thank President Bush for his service to our nation, as well as the generosity and cooperation he has shown throughout this transition.

Forty-four Americans have now taken the presidential oath. The words have been spoken during rising tides of prosperity and the still waters of peace. Yet, every so often the oath is taken amidst gathering clouds and raging storms. At these moments, America has carried on not simply because of the skill or vision of those in high office, but because We the People have remained faithful to the ideals of our forbearers, and true to our founding documents.

So it has been. So it must be with this generation of Americans.

That we are in the midst of crisis is now well understood. Our nation is at war, against a far-reaching network of violence and hatred. Our economy is badly weakened, a consequence of greed and irresponsibility on the part of some, but also our collective failure to make hard choices and prepare the nation for a new age. Homes have been lost; jobs shed; businesses shuttered. Our health care is too costly; our schools fail too many; and each day brings further evidence that the ways we use energy strengthen our adversaries and threaten our planet.

These are the indicators of crisis, subject to data and statistics. Less measurable but no less profound is a sapping of confidence across our land - a nagging fear that America's decline is inevitable, and that the next generation must lower its sights.

Today I say to you that the challenges we face are real. They are serious and they are many. They will not be met easily or in a short span of time. But know this, America - they will be met.

On this day, we gather because we have chosen hope over fear, unity of purpose over conflict and discord.

On this day, we come to proclaim an end to the petty grievances and false promises, the recriminations and worn out dogmas, that for far too long have strangled our politics.

We remain a young nation, but in the words of Scripture, the time has come to set aside childish things. The time has come to reaffirm our enduring spirit; to choose our better history; to carry forward that precious gift, that noble idea, passed on from generation to generation: the God-given promise that all are equal, all are free, and all deserve a chance to pursue their full measure of happiness.

In reaffirming the greatness of our nation, we understand that greatness is never a given. It must be earned. Our journey has never been one of short-cuts or settling for less. It has not been the path for the faint-hearted - for those who prefer leisure over work, or seek only the pleasures of riches and fame. Rather, it has been the risk-takers, the doers, the makers of things - some celebrated but more often men and women obscure in their labor, who have carried us up the long, rugged path towards prosperity and freedom.

For us, they packed up their few worldly possessions and traveled across oceans in search of a new life.

For us, they toiled in sweatshops and settled the West; endured the lash of the whip and plowed the hard earth.

For us, they fought and died, in places like Concord and Gettysburg; Normandy and Khe Sahn.

Time and again these men and women struggled and sacrificed and worked till their hands were raw so that we might live a better life. They saw America as bigger than the sum of our individual ambitions; greater than all the differences of birth or wealth or faction.

This is the journey we continue today. We remain the most prosperous, powerful nation on Earth. Our workers are no less productive than when this crisis began. Our minds are no less inventive, our goods and services no less needed than they were last week or last month or last year. Our capacity remains undiminished. But our time of standing pat, of protecting narrow interests and putting off unpleasant decisions - that time has surely passed. Starting today, we must pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off, and begin again the work of remaking America.

For everywhere we look, there is work to be done. The state of the economy calls for action, bold and swift, and we will act - not only to create new jobs, but to lay a new foundation for growth. We will build the roads and bridges, the electric grids and digital lines that feed our commerce and bind us together. We will restore science to its rightful place, and wield technology's wonders to raise health care's quality and lower its cost. We will harness the sun and the winds and the soil to fuel our cars and run our factories. And we will transform our schools and colleges and universities to meet the demands of a new age. All this we can do. And all this we will do.

Now, there are some who question the scale of our ambitions - who suggest that our system cannot tolerate too many big plans. Their memories are short. For they have forgotten what this country has already done; what free men and women can achieve when imagination is joined to common purpose, and necessity to courage.

What the cynics fail to understand is that the ground has shifted beneath them - that the stale political arguments that have consumed us for so long no longer apply. The question we ask today is not whether our government is too big or too small, but whether it works - whether it helps families find jobs at a decent wage, care they can afford, a retirement that is dignified. Where the answer is yes, we intend to move forward. Where the answer is no, programs will end. And those of us who manage the public's dollars will be held to account - to spend wisely, reform bad habits, and do our business in the light of day - because only then can we restore the vital trust between a people and their government.

Nor is the question before us whether the market is a force for good or ill. Its power to generate wealth and expand freedom is unmatched, but this crisis has reminded us that without a watchful eye, the market can spin out of control - and that a nation cannot prosper long when it favors only the prosperous. The success of our economy has always depended not just on the size of our Gross Domestic Product, but on the reach of our prosperity; on our ability to extend opportunity to every willing heart - not out of charity, but because it is the surest route to our common good.

As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals. Our Founding Fathers, faced with perils we can scarcely imagine, drafted a charter to assure the rule of law and the rights of man, a charter expanded by the blood of generations. Those ideals still light the world, and we will not give them up for expedience's sake. And so to all other peoples and governments who are watching today, from the grandest capitals to the small village where my father was born: know that America is a friend of each nation and every man, woman, and child who seeks a future of peace and dignity, and that we are ready to lead once more.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

We are the keepers of this legacy. Guided by these principles once more, we can meet those new threats that demand even greater effort - even greater cooperation and understanding between nations. We will begin to responsibly leave Iraq to its people, and forge a hard-earned peace in Afghanistan. With old friends and former foes, we will work tirelessly to lessen the nuclear threat, and roll back the specter of a warming planet. We will not apologize for our way of life, nor will we waver in its defense, and for those who seek to advance their aims by inducing terror and slaughtering innocents, we say to you now that our spirit is stronger and cannot be broken; you cannot outlast us, and we will defeat you.

For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus - and non-believers. We are shaped by every language and culture, drawn from every end of this Earth; and because we have tasted the bitter swill of civil war and segregation, and emerged from that dark chapter stronger and more united, we cannot help but believe that the old hatreds shall someday pass; that the lines of tribe shall soon dissolve; that as the world grows smaller, our common humanity shall reveal itself; and that America must play its role in ushering in a new era of peace.

To the Muslim world, we seek a new way forward, based on mutual interest and mutual respect. To those leaders around the globe who seek to sow conflict, or blame their society's ills on the West - know that your people will judge you on what you can build, not what you destroy. To those who cling to power through corruption and deceit and the silencing of dissent, know that you are on the wrong side of history; but that we will extend a hand if you are willing to unclench your fist.

To the people of poor nations, we pledge to work alongside you to make your farms flourish and let clean waters flow; to nourish starved bodies and feed hungry minds. And to those nations like ours that enjoy relative plenty, we say we can no longer afford indifference to suffering outside our borders; nor can we consume the world's resources without regard to effect. For the world has changed, and we must change with it.

As we consider the road that unfolds before us, we remember with humble gratitude those brave Americans who, at this very hour, patrol far-off deserts and distant mountains. They have something to tell us today, just as the fallen heroes who lie in Arlington whisper through the ages. We honor them not only because they are guardians of our liberty, but because they embody the spirit of service; a willingness to find meaning in something greater than themselves. And yet, at this moment - a moment that will define a generation - it is precisely this spirit that must inhabit us all.

For as much as government can do and must do, it is ultimately the faith and determination of the American people upon which this nation relies. It is the kindness to take in a stranger when the levees break, the selflessness of workers who would rather cut their hours than see a friend lose their job which sees us through our darkest hours. It is the firefighter's courage to storm a stairway filled with smoke, but also a parent's willingness to nurture a child, that finally decides our fate.

Our challenges may be new. The instruments with which we meet them may be new. But those values upon which our success depends - hard work and honesty, courage and fair play, tolerance and curiosity, loyalty and patriotism - these things are old. These things are true. They have been the quiet force of progress throughout our history. What is demanded then is a return to these truths. What is required of us now is a new era of responsibility - a recognition, on the part of every American, that we have duties to ourselves, our nation, and the world, duties that we do not grudgingly accept but rather seize gladly, firm in the knowledge that there is nothing so satisfying to the spirit, so defining of our character, than giving our all to a difficult task.

This is the price and the promise of citizenship.

This is the source of our confidence - the knowledge that God calls on us to shape an uncertain destiny.

This is the meaning of our liberty and our creed - why men and women and children of every race and every faith can join in celebration across this magnificent mall, and why a man whose father less than sixty years ago might not have been served at a local restaurant can now stand before you to take a most sacred oath.

So let us mark this day with remembrance, of who we are and how far we have traveled. In the year of America's birth, in the coldest of months, a small band of patriots huddled by dying campfires on the shores of an icy river. The capital was abandoned. The enemy was advancing. The snow was stained with blood. At a moment when the outcome of our revolution was most in doubt, the father of our nation ordered these words be read to the people:

"Let it be told to the future world...that in the depth of winter, when nothing but hope and virtue could survive...that the city and the country, alarmed at one common danger, came forth to meet [it]."

America. In the face of our common dangers, in this winter of our hardship, let us remember these timeless words. With hope and virtue, let us brave once more the icy currents, and endure what storms may come. Let it be said by our children's children that when we were tested we refused to let this journey end, that we did not turn back nor did we falter; and with eyes fixed on the horizon and God's grace upon us, we carried forth that great gift of freedom and delivered it safely to future generations.
[close]
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ManaByte on January 20, 2009, 12:17:56 PM
4 year term, end of the world is 2012. "Beware the leader who promises change" :o

Unless the Mayan 2012 was 2008 due to the four-year difference in the Western calendar. Yeah.  ::)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on January 20, 2009, 12:19:30 PM
They elected the dude from Battlestar president?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eel O'Brian on January 20, 2009, 12:19:52 PM
let's all play some wii sports and go to church in celebration

it's okay now, obama does it
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: BlueTsunami on January 20, 2009, 12:20:05 PM
You know its true, Manabyte.

"Fire and Terror will be brought on the wings of a black man"

~Hidden text in the Bibble
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: AdmiralViscen on January 20, 2009, 12:20:42 PM
the chief justice got the wording wrong, so Obama messed up



Oh is that what it was?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Diunx on January 20, 2009, 12:29:19 PM
Is the world fixed yet?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Beardo on January 20, 2009, 12:29:41 PM
Is the world fixed yet?

We can only HOPE.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: CajoleJuice on January 20, 2009, 12:30:10 PM
meh
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on January 20, 2009, 12:34:14 PM
invest in kfc NOW
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cindi Mayweather on January 20, 2009, 12:35:17 PM
boring speech
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Rman on January 20, 2009, 12:35:35 PM
Old dude is awesome

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: WrikaWrek on January 20, 2009, 12:37:22 PM
What the fuck at the Prayer at the beginning, i mean really? Really? Ugh

I liked Obama going "Man fuck this oath shit, yeah yah whatever, wait what? Say that again"


Good speech. Guy can talk.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eel O'Brian on January 20, 2009, 12:37:41 PM
invest in kfc NOW

hahaha

that dude who used to compile those "truly tasteless" joke books is licking his lips at the comeback this presidency offers
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eel O'Brian on January 20, 2009, 12:38:19 PM
What the fuck at the Prayer at the beginning, i mean really? Really? Ugh

your new god worships the old gods
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ferrarimanf355 on January 20, 2009, 12:39:09 PM
It's over, it's fucking over. Our long national nightmare is over.  :-*
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: drew on January 20, 2009, 12:39:52 PM
I'm watching it on TV... the online feeds are booked and lagged

channel 10 is where its at
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on January 20, 2009, 12:40:10 PM
the royal bank of scotland disagrees :'(
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Rman on January 20, 2009, 12:40:54 PM
Good riddance Bush/Cheney.  The nightmare is officially over.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: BlueTsunami on January 20, 2009, 12:41:58 PM
So Cheney is wheel chair ridden? He moved some shit and his back is fucked up
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on January 20, 2009, 12:42:06 PM
Obama's highfalutin' rhetoric is nice and all, but it's the schadenfreude that really warms my cockles.

Conservatives are vacillating wildly between Obama as harbinger of doom (see sd's "These Keynesian multiplier estimates are downright CRIMINAL!") to convince themselves they were right to oppose him, and Obama as huckster (see Beardo's "lol change") to convince themselves they didn't really lose.

No wonder the Corner was so smug back in the day.  This winning stuff is fun.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eel O'Brian on January 20, 2009, 12:42:19 PM
i misread that as "royal bank of canada" for a second and my heart skipped a beat
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on January 20, 2009, 12:43:34 PM
Obama's highfalutin' rhetoric is nice and all, but it's the schadenfreude that really warms my cockles.

Conservatives are vacillating wildly between Obama as harbinger of doom (see sd's "These Keynesian multiplier estimates are downright CRIMINAL!") to convince themselves they were right to oppose him, and Obama as huckster (see Beardo's "lol change") to convince themselves they didn't really lose.

No wonder the Corner was so smug back in the day.  This winning stuff is fun.

http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=86469
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eel O'Brian on January 20, 2009, 12:45:06 PM
the immediate flipfloppery warms my cockles
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on January 20, 2009, 12:47:01 PM
Congrats to Barack Obama. Let's see what he and the DEMs can do.

He has my support.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
for today
[close]
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ferrarimanf355 on January 20, 2009, 12:49:05 PM
So Cheney is wheel chair ridden? He moved some shit and his back is fucked up
At least he didn't get shot in the face while the Duck Hunt dog was laughing at him.  :maf
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on January 20, 2009, 12:49:24 PM
Obama's highfalutin' rhetoric is nice and all, but it's the schadenfreude that really warms my cockles.

Conservatives are vacillating wildly between Obama as harbinger of doom (see sd's "These Keynesian multiplier estimates are downright CRIMINAL!") to convince themselves they were right to oppose him, and Obama as huckster (see Beardo's "lol change") to convince themselves they didn't really lose.

No wonder the Corner was so smug back in the day.  This winning stuff is fun.

this. soon they will all kneel before keynes and his herald krugman, and i will lol as i have ne'er lol'd before
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: archie4208 on January 20, 2009, 12:50:52 PM
since we are officially socialist now where is my free money?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Beezy on January 20, 2009, 12:53:16 PM
invest in kfc NOW
Popeyes, bitch
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Brehvolution on January 20, 2009, 12:54:20 PM
since we are officially socialist now where is my free money?

The repubs already gave it to the rich. haha
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on January 20, 2009, 12:55:10 PM
http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=86469

Ha.  That guy's an OG, with a WND column going back to the Clinton days.

Just randomly skimming his archive got me this (http://wnd.com/index.php?pageId=35372): "Hitler's Evolutionists"
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cindi Mayweather on January 20, 2009, 12:55:51 PM
why can't white people ever get it right?

kfc sucks. black people go to their local ghetto join or popeyes. any negro you see at kfc has no standards or is hungry as fuck
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Crushed on January 20, 2009, 12:56:29 PM
you fools... what have you done...

(http://i42.tinypic.com/5umlom.jpg)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on January 20, 2009, 12:59:07 PM
WHERE ELSE BUT HELL COULD HITLER GET HIS INSPIRATION
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: drew on January 20, 2009, 12:59:13 PM
man id love to be a fly inside bush's helicopter right now
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ManaByte on January 20, 2009, 01:00:16 PM
man id love to be a fly inside bush's helicopter right now

I was just thinking that.

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on January 20, 2009, 01:00:30 PM
why can't white people ever get it right?

kfc sucks. black people go to their local ghetto join or popeyes. any negro you see at kfc has no standards or is hungry as fuck

maf insists i need to go to popeye's for the proper fastfood chik'n experience -- or at least for decent read beans and rice. i smell a renton roadtrip
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ManaByte on January 20, 2009, 01:00:37 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3q89grM9cPE
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eel O'Brian on January 20, 2009, 01:01:36 PM
bush doesn't give a fuck

he's going back to texas to play cowboy games
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on January 20, 2009, 01:02:15 PM
man id love to be a fly inside bush's helicopter right now

What I want, and what will never happen, is for Bush to one day wake up and realize how awful a president he's been and comprehend the full scope of the harm he's done.

That doesn't feel like much to ask for.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cindi Mayweather on January 20, 2009, 01:02:29 PM
why can't white people ever get it right?

kfc sucks. black people go to their local ghetto join or popeyes. any negro you see at kfc has no standards or is hungry as fuck

maf insists i need to go to popeye's for the proper fastfood chik'n experience -- or at least for decent read beans and rice. i smell a renton roadtrip

dude go there for some solid beans and rice. Try their biscuits too.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Brehvolution on January 20, 2009, 01:02:36 PM
man id love to be a fly inside bush's helicopter right now

"Do I get my billion bucks from the ay-rabs like you did daddy?"
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eel O'Brian on January 20, 2009, 01:03:03 PM
why can't white people ever get it right?

kfc sucks. black people go to their local ghetto join or popeyes. any negro you see at kfc has no standards or is hungry as fuck

maf insists i need to go to popeye's for the proper fastfood chik'n experience -- or at least for decent read beans and rice. i smell a renton roadtrip

we don't have a popeye's here

we have kfc, bojangle's, and church's

hardee's (carl's to you guys) chicken isn't bad, i like the crust
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Robo on January 20, 2009, 01:04:00 PM
why can't white people ever get it right?

kfc sucks. black people go to their local ghetto join or popeyes. any negro you see at kfc has no standards or is hungry as fuck

maf insists i need to go to popeye's for the proper fastfood chik'n experience -- or at least for decent read beans and rice. i smell a renton roadtrip

dude go there for some solid beans and rice. Try their biscuits too.

It's all about the mashed potatoes.  That gravy is :drool
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Crushed on January 20, 2009, 01:05:14 PM
man id love to be a fly inside bush's helicopter right now
(http://i44.tinypic.com/2n81vgi.jpg)

"SO LONG, SUCKERS. BUSH OUT."
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Robo on January 20, 2009, 01:06:40 PM
 :teehee
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eel O'Brian on January 20, 2009, 01:07:21 PM
so how soon do you guys shut the fuck up about the dimestore cowboy and start focusing those narrowed eyes towards the new guy

spoiler (click to show/hide)
i'm guessing never
[close]
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cindi Mayweather on January 20, 2009, 01:08:26 PM
why can't white people ever get it right?

kfc sucks. black people go to their local ghetto join or popeyes. any negro you see at kfc has no standards or is hungry as fuck

maf insists i need to go to popeye's for the proper fastfood chik'n experience -- or at least for decent read beans and rice. i smell a renton roadtrip

dude go there for some solid beans and rice. Try their biscuits too.

It's all about the mashed potatoes.  That gravy is :drool

yes
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Tauntaun on January 20, 2009, 01:10:54 PM
Two words: Boston Market.  :drool
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Robo on January 20, 2009, 01:11:03 PM
The Popeye's near here has this little prize wheel that spins whenever you order something and gives you the opportunity to buy some extra shit at a heavy discount.  I haven't seen it at any other location.  It's pretty amazing.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: demi on January 20, 2009, 01:12:38 PM
What's with manabyte's avatar. So rude.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Bocsius on January 20, 2009, 01:15:04 PM
In between the chicken talk, I'll say that our office watched the CNN stream of the inauguration ceremony in a conference room. The video would freeze quite often, but the audio came through no problem. So we basically thought of it as the way people experienced inaugurations back during the first depression instead of the sequel.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Tauntaun on January 20, 2009, 01:18:28 PM
What's with manabyte's avatar. So rude.

Well you see, black people used to be called porch monkeys or just monkey in general.  It's endearing to them like if you call them a nigg-a.   :)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eel O'Brian on January 20, 2009, 01:19:12 PM
The Popeye's near here has this little prize wheel that spins whenever you order something and gives you the opportunity to buy some extra shit at a heavy discount.  I haven't seen it at any other location.  It's pretty amazing.

(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c121/KParrott/Chicken.jpg)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: demi on January 20, 2009, 01:19:51 PM
What's with manabyte's avatar. So rude.

Well you see, black people used to be called porch monkeys or just monkey in general.  It's endearing to them like if you call them a nigg-a.   :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTosQerWBzU
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on January 20, 2009, 01:22:48 PM
So Bush didn't really do the last-minute pardon avalanche thing people were expecting, huh?  He didn't even pardon Libby, despite apparently a big push from neoconland to do so.  Wonder why, maybe this sheds some light on it though:

Quote
   Bush grew more agitated at the mention of his own former senior diplomat. “Let me just say from the outset that I don’t consider Bolton credible,” the president said bitterly. Bush had brought Bolton into the top ranks of his administration, fought for Senate confirmation and, when lawmakers balked, defied critics to give the hawkish aide a recess appointment. “I spent political capital for him,” Bush said, and look what he got in return.

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on January 20, 2009, 01:23:47 PM
yeah, Popeye's, unlike KFC, sells edible food.  That doesn't include their actual fried chicken, though.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Tauntaun on January 20, 2009, 01:24:02 PM
I see your stupid white ho and raise you SP:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaOxYYYDjzE
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: demi on January 20, 2009, 01:24:55 PM
I see your stupid white ho and raise you SP:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR2xDfOHTz8
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: drew on January 20, 2009, 01:27:00 PM
where the fuck is the parade on tv?  i know someone in a marching band thats there right now
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eel O'Brian on January 20, 2009, 01:27:50 PM
i don't see why you guys hate all over kfc

their original recipe chicken sandwiches & pot pies are good, and their potato wedges aren't bad
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: demi on January 20, 2009, 01:28:23 PM
KFC sucks since they downsized the Twister. Shit
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: drew on January 20, 2009, 01:28:52 PM
popeyes 5 peice strip w/ ranch is amazing
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Tauntaun on January 20, 2009, 01:30:44 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSLOjZa3WSA

:zzz
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Brehvolution on January 20, 2009, 01:31:31 PM
i don't see why you guys hate all over kfc

their original recipe chicken sandwiches & pot pies are good, and their potato wedges aren't bad

I was going to post almost word for word of this, but my browser timed out.  :lol
Dip them wedges in the best gravy on the planet. :drool
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on January 20, 2009, 01:31:44 PM
i don't see why you guys hate all over kfc

their original recipe chicken sandwiches & pot pies are good, and their potato wedges aren't bad

i smell a podcast segment
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on January 20, 2009, 01:35:13 PM
goddammit I WANT SOME FUCKIN FRIED CHICKEN posthaste
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on January 20, 2009, 01:37:57 PM
black people: popeyes>>>kfc

mom's chicken>>>kfc

grandma's chicken>>>kfc

etc
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: FatalT on January 20, 2009, 01:38:15 PM
Tauntaun ahaahahahahahaha
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: cool breeze on January 20, 2009, 01:38:34 PM
kfc invented the famous bowl

I don't see how you can hate kfc.  It's like a poor person's thanksgiving that you can eat with a spoon..
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Brehvolution on January 20, 2009, 01:39:18 PM
Tauntaun ahaahahahahahaha
Dude is like the Forrest Gump of chicken.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: drew on January 20, 2009, 01:40:13 PM
my moms chicken = raw chicken breast soaked in italian vinagarette salad dressing before being grilled
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Rman on January 20, 2009, 01:41:23 PM
I wonder if the Obama girl will turn up some where.  She's so delicious.
 :nsfw
spoiler (click to show/hide)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Myv4hDsin88
[close]
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: CajoleJuice on January 20, 2009, 01:46:16 PM
so how soon do you guys shut the fuck up about the dimestore cowboy and start focusing those narrowed eyes towards the new guy

spoiler (click to show/hide)
i'm guessing never
[close]

i like how no one responded to this
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: WrikaWrek on January 20, 2009, 01:46:28 PM
What's with manabyte's avatar. So rude.

Well you see, black people used to be called porch monkeys or just monkey in general.  It's endearing to them like if you call them a nigg-a.   :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTosQerWBzU


Now that's some of that certified trailer park White gheto trash talk.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: WrikaWrek on January 20, 2009, 01:50:35 PM
I see your stupid white ho and raise you SP:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR2xDfOHTz8

Omg

My abs hurt from the laughter, oh man "I'll merc yo ass" ahahahahahaah

MOOOOOReeee. i need more of this shit demi
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: dammitmattt on January 20, 2009, 01:54:21 PM
so how soon do you guys shut the fuck up about the dimestore cowboy and start focusing those narrowed eyes towards the new guy
spoiler (click to show/hide)
i'm guessing never
[close]

Since they don't have a fucking clue what Obama is actually going to do other than mis-pronounce fewer words, Bush-bashing and "hope"/"change" chanting are all they've got.

What worries me is that Obama has nearly an 80% approval rate.  Since we've previously determined that the majority of our country consists of bumbling idiots, we should all be worried when 80% of them agree on anything.

With that said, kick some ass, Obama.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on January 20, 2009, 02:02:50 PM
Quote
black people: popeyes>>>kfc

mom's chicken>>>kfc

grandma's chicken>>>kfc

etc

i am black apparently.  although the chicken itself is equimagnitudinally disgusting between popeyes and kfc, but I can just eat the mashed potatoes and biscuits and rice and foist the chicken on someone else.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Beezy on January 20, 2009, 02:10:04 PM
The Popeye's near here has this little prize wheel that spins whenever you order something and gives you the opportunity to buy some extra shit at a heavy discount.  I haven't seen it at any other location.  It's pretty amazing.
There's a Popeyes here in the Bronx with that shit. It's so hard to ignore. :heart
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Diunx on January 20, 2009, 02:24:36 PM
Now that I think about it Obama is probably the president with the biggest dick in America's history since he is black and all.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Flannel Boy on January 20, 2009, 02:30:45 PM
Now that I think about it Obama is probably the president with the biggest dick in America's history since he is black and all.

The White House has had a Dick that was  5' 11½"!

spoiler (click to show/hide)
(http://www.nixonlibraryfoundation.org/clientuploads/directory/Photo_Directory/thumb.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: drew on January 20, 2009, 02:37:06 PM
Omg

My abs hurt from the laughter, oh man "I'll merc yo ass" ahahahahahaah

MOOOOOReeee. i need more of this shit demi

oh god
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on January 20, 2009, 02:45:27 PM
well, it is true
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Flannel Boy on January 20, 2009, 02:48:19 PM
The parallels are indeed uncanny.  :o

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: CajoleJuice on January 20, 2009, 02:51:18 PM
- elected to office
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eel O'Brian on January 20, 2009, 02:51:28 PM
lyndon johnson allegedly had a monster wang, and was not hesitant about showing it to people
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Flannel Boy on January 20, 2009, 02:52:53 PM
Adolf
Obama
Five letters each
Both begin with a vowel

Hitler
Barack
Six letters each
Both begin and end with consonants.

Here's the clincher, both have white mothers.

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Tieno on January 20, 2009, 02:55:17 PM
So is this the end of black presidents in Hollywood movies?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Flannel Boy on January 20, 2009, 02:57:00 PM
So is this the end of black presidents in Hollywood movies?

It's the beginning of unattractive female presidents in Hollywood movies.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on January 20, 2009, 02:58:34 PM
bullshit. link?

Wallace is an ass, but not like that
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: CajoleJuice on January 20, 2009, 02:59:01 PM
i am speechless
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on January 20, 2009, 02:59:46 PM
bullshit. link?

Wallace is an ass, but not like that

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/tv-decoder-live-blogging-coverage/


Oh man that was so hard for me to find on the internetz.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Flannel Boy on January 20, 2009, 03:00:49 PM
Jew magic or did you click on the first google link?

Will PD ever find out?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Bocsius on January 20, 2009, 03:01:53 PM
This mean... we're a nation without a leader!!1

spoiler (click to show/hide)
So it's like the past 8 years.
[close]
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ManaByte on January 20, 2009, 03:02:06 PM
.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on January 20, 2009, 03:02:42 PM
Thank you Mr. Google

jesus christ Fox.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on January 20, 2009, 03:05:05 PM
Manabyte, I have a ludicrously low opinion of you and yet you keep managing to disappoint me.

Why do you post here?  Has someone given you the impression that they value your contributions to the forum?  Who did this?  Tell me who they are and I'll set them straight.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ManaByte on January 20, 2009, 03:05:17 PM
Time Warner here turned off the FOX feed for the entire day so far.  :lol
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: CajoleJuice on January 20, 2009, 03:06:07 PM
Manabyte, I have a ludicrously low opinion of you and yet you keep managing to disappoint me.

Why do you post here?  Has someone given you the impression that they value your contributions to the forum?  Who did this?  Tell me who they are and I'll set them straight.

I second this.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ManaByte on January 20, 2009, 03:06:47 PM
Fine. I'll stop posting here.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Flannel Boy on January 20, 2009, 03:07:39 PM
Mandark does have magical Jew powers.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: CajoleJuice on January 20, 2009, 03:09:33 PM
Did that really just happen? That never happens!

:bow Mandark :bow2
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on January 20, 2009, 03:11:17 PM
Mandark must have threatened to send a golem into the Disney vault to destroy shit
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: WrikaWrek on January 20, 2009, 03:14:25 PM
So is this the end of black presidents in Hollywood movies?

Well if they use black presidents now, people will say they are just trying to be politically correct. Even though they did it before.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eel O'Brian on January 20, 2009, 03:16:54 PM
sorry to drop a truth nuke in here, but telling other people to stop posting (even manabyte) is pretty fucking stupid considering it takes all of one second to click an ignore button
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Flannel Boy on January 20, 2009, 03:17:29 PM
Quote
This user is currently ignored.
Sorry, what?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: CajoleJuice on January 20, 2009, 03:18:49 PM
sorry to drop a truth nuke in here, but telling other people to stop posting (even manabyte) is pretty fucking stupid considering it takes all of one second to click an ignore button

He didn't tell him to do to stop posting. He just asked him questions.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eel O'Brian on January 20, 2009, 03:19:26 PM
malek ignored me like pussy ignores him
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Crushed on January 20, 2009, 03:21:47 PM
http://media.prefixmag.com/site_media/uploads/mp3s/young-jeezy-nas-my-president-is-black.mp3

willco or demi, embed this on forums
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on January 20, 2009, 03:23:34 PM
leper crushed
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: drew on January 20, 2009, 03:25:02 PM
cheaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaauuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: y2kev on January 20, 2009, 03:27:45 PM
holy fuck

:bow mandark :bow2
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: drew on January 20, 2009, 03:29:50 PM
while were on the subject

who the fuck is mandark?

im not kidding

how is someone i dont know an icon?

must live in Seattle
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Tauntaun on January 20, 2009, 03:32:41 PM
while were on the subject

who the fuck is mandark?

im not kidding

how is someone i dont know an icon?

must live in Seattle

Used to be a mod on some gay forum (the bad kind, like with AIDS) then came to EB to escape the AIDS (a la kosma) and has been getting nekkid ever since.  :-*
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: EmCeeGrammar on January 20, 2009, 03:33:23 PM
I think he used to admin/mod for gaf. Currently banned.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eel O'Brian on January 20, 2009, 03:33:53 PM
let's all get naked and eat fried chicken in celebration of this historic election
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on January 20, 2009, 03:34:37 PM
He's FoC's joke account
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on January 20, 2009, 03:35:58 PM
Not to change the subject, but y'all seen the banking stocks today?

I say we get an over/under pool going for full industry nationalization.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: BlueTsunami on January 20, 2009, 03:41:05 PM
Mandark is the Emperor of Funky Town
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Bocsius on January 20, 2009, 03:44:14 PM
Not to change the subject, but y'all seen the banking stocks today?

I say we get an over/under pool going for full industry nationalization.

The big government socialists just left power, though.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: WrikaWrek on January 20, 2009, 03:44:28 PM
I like fried chicken so much.

But i can't eat it now, i have to eat healthy.  :-\
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 20, 2009, 03:45:09 PM
ManaByte is my joke account
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Tauntaun on January 20, 2009, 03:47:13 PM
let's all get naked and eat fried chicken in celebration of this historic election

We could take the skin and put it on our wangs then munch away.  :-*

Brings new meaning to the saying "sucked the meat off the bone."  :drool
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Brehvolution on January 20, 2009, 03:51:13 PM
 :lol
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eric P on January 20, 2009, 04:18:24 PM
now that that's out of the way, can we stop focusing on the president and try to actually fix stuff?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on January 20, 2009, 04:22:04 PM
royal bank of scotland and  state street one-two punch to the market's gut :punch :'(

socialism can't get here soon enough
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on January 20, 2009, 04:22:34 PM
http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=76085
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Fragamemnon on January 20, 2009, 04:31:48 PM
Shittybank back under $5 a share and Wells Fargo getting a 25% share haircut didn't help either. Shittybank because they just got a special Shittygroup bailout for them, and WF because they were one of the few banks that so far that didn't have such enormous problems.

I suggest a nationalization of banks and then a "santization" of executives and boardmembers.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: CajoleJuice on January 20, 2009, 04:35:44 PM
ShittyField  :'(
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Flannel Boy on January 20, 2009, 04:39:58 PM
Canadian Banks are doing fine.

 :usacry
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Bocsius on January 20, 2009, 04:44:26 PM
They have banks in Canada? I thought everything was on the bartering system up there.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Flannel Boy on January 20, 2009, 04:47:56 PM
Once your shitty banks are all under, you'll be begging for Canadian beaver pelts.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Bocsius on January 20, 2009, 04:50:53 PM
I know a guy who can send me hollowed out moose carcasses for a few barrels of syrup. Then again, what would I store in the carcasses if I send him the syrup? Come to think of it, I already have barrels.

I'm beginning to think this whole transaction is a scam.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: DJ_Tet on January 20, 2009, 04:54:41 PM
why can't white people ever get it right?

kfc sucks. black people go to their local ghetto join or popeyes. any negro you see at kfc has no standards or is hungry as fuck

maf insists i need to go to popeye's for the proper fastfood chik'n experience -- or at least for decent read beans and rice. i smell a renton roadtrip


(http://www.chimpout.com/forum/images/smilies/22209-pZeWoJGcnaeim6Y-8190kfc.gif)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Flannel Boy on January 20, 2009, 05:12:57 PM
That's racist!

spoiler (click to show/hide)
:teehee
[close]
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Fragamemnon on January 20, 2009, 05:15:31 PM
I know a guy who can send me hollowed out moose carcasses for a few barrels of syrup. Then again, what would I store in the carcasses if I send him the syrup? Come to think of it, I already have barrels.

I'm beginning to think this whole transaction is a scam.

can you get the moose meat instead? mooseburgers! :palincry

the bank of america thing is just   :-\ . Paulson's work as treasury secretary has been a monumental disaster, and I bet history will hate on him more than they will Rumsfeld or any of the DOD neocon flunkies.

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Oblivion on January 20, 2009, 05:15:49 PM
What's with all this badmouthing KFC all of a sudden? :punch :punch
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on January 20, 2009, 05:16:31 PM
Quote
"[Obama is] just one of those guys, you know, like Will Smith. There's no Will Smith jokes. There's no Brad Pitt jokes. You know, what are you going to say? "Ooh, you used to have sex with Jennifer Anniston. Now you have sex with Angelina Jolie. You're such a loser." What do you say? "Ooh, your movies are big. You make $20 million." There's nothing to say about Brad Pitt...[With Obama it's] like "Ooh, you're young and virile and you've got a beautiful wife and kids. You're the first African-American president." You know, what do you say?," - Chris Rock.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/01/19/chris.rock.kill.the.messenger/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

 :lol
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Fragamemnon on January 20, 2009, 05:16:57 PM
kfc is pretty weak if you have a popeyes or bojangles around, IMO.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Fragamemnon on January 20, 2009, 05:17:46 PM
obama should sign into law a bill renaming the Republican Party to "Great Enemy of the People".
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Flannel Boy on January 20, 2009, 05:21:19 PM
obama should sign into law a bill renaming the Republican Party to "Great Enemy of the People".

I always knew Fragamemnon secretly thought that the Republican Party was great.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Oblivion on January 20, 2009, 05:22:07 PM
kfc is pretty weak if you have a popeyes or bojangles around, IMO.

I dunno, whatever they put on the skin with KFC is pretty damn tasty, in comparison to Popeye's at least. Never heard of Bojangles, tho.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Flannel Boy on January 20, 2009, 05:22:33 PM
kfc is pretty weak if you have a popeyes or bojangles around, IMO.

I dunno, whatever they put on the skin with KFC is pretty damn tasty.
salt
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eel O'Brian on January 20, 2009, 05:24:34 PM
i'm looking forward to socialism

a lot of you make way more than i do, and i can't wait until you're paying for all my shit
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Crushed on January 20, 2009, 05:25:44 PM
obama should sign into law a bill renaming the Republican Party to "Great Enemy of the People".

if one of his first acts isn't the trial and execution of the entire bush administration for crimes against humanity, then obama = disappointment total
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Oblivion on January 20, 2009, 05:28:38 PM
Quote
"[Obama is] just one of those guys, you know, like Will Smith. There's no Will Smith jokes. There's no Brad Pitt jokes. You know, what are you going to say? "Ooh, you used to have sex with Jennifer Anniston. Now you have sex with Angelina Jolie. You're such a loser." What do you say? "Ooh, your movies are big. You make $20 million." There's nothing to say about Brad Pitt...[With Obama it's] like "Ooh, you're young and virile and you've got a beautiful wife and kids. You're the first African-American president." You know, what do you say?," - Chris Rock.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/01/19/chris.rock.kill.the.messenger/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

 :lol

I do have to say. What impressed me most about Obama wasn't that he was a darkie that got lucky, but just the fact that he seems like the most unassailable politician in history. It's nigh impossible to make fun of the guy. He really is the magical distinguished black fellow.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on January 20, 2009, 05:35:36 PM
You can mock him as the "messiah" ala Rush, but even that rings hollow. He's a genuinely cool guy who treats people fairly. It's no wonder why people on the fringes of the right are so scared of him. Obama may strongly disagree with someone but he's  going to go out his way to hear their argument. People like Rush/Palin/etc and the other "good vs evil" people need to evolve.

If Obama has a relatively good first term and stays out of trouble...what will the republicans be able to do in 2012?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: demi on January 20, 2009, 05:43:27 PM
What happened with ManaByte? Tell me or so help me god I will loop that song on the forum
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Robo on January 20, 2009, 05:47:06 PM
kfc is pretty weak if you have a popeyes or bojangles around, IMO.

I dunno, whatever they put on the skin with KFC is pretty damn tasty.
salt

it's chicken-scented shampoo.  hides the cardboard smell.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on January 20, 2009, 05:54:50 PM
I once had a nightmare about fried-chicken-flavored ice cream.  It was the worst dream I've ever had.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Positive Touch on January 20, 2009, 06:01:08 PM
obama should sign into law a bill renaming the Republican Party to "Great Enemy of the People".

if one of his first acts isn't the trial and execution of the entire bush administration for crimes against humanity, then obama = disappointment total

:bow crushed :bow2
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Great Rumbler on January 20, 2009, 06:16:35 PM
obama should sign into law a bill renaming the Republican Party to "Great Enemy of the People".

if one of his first acts isn't the trial and execution of the entire bush administration for crimes against humanity, then obama = disappointment total

:bow crushed :bow2

Everything we've seen so far suggests otherwise. He hugs Bush and then secretly poisons Byrd and Kennedy? Closet Republican total.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 20, 2009, 06:22:04 PM
So I see this posted on somebody's facebook page:
Quote
well i thinkg we need more people to protest like me and maybe we will start a mass riot against the liberal communistic bastard of a president we have

I can understand not liking him for his policies, but this guy doesn't even know wtf he's talking about.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 20, 2009, 06:37:42 PM
Obama won't push the trial of anything like that. He is trying to be as non-partisan as possible. He doesn't want the dems vs. republicans mindset.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: archie4208 on January 20, 2009, 06:40:39 PM
Was listening to Hannity on the way home from work today.  Hoo boy he is a bitter little man. :lol
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Brehvolution on January 20, 2009, 06:52:59 PM
obama should sign into law a bill renaming the Republican Party to "Great Enemy of the People".

:bow Frag :bow2

Butthurt republican believe only a white, rich guy should be president. They fail to see how refreshing it is to NOT have a big oil or corporate mouth piece running the nation.
A fatherless child who put himself through Harvard is still a filthy poor in their eyes.
smh
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 20, 2009, 06:58:35 PM

A fatherless child who put himself through Harvard is still a filthy poor in their eyes.
smh
He was still paying off student loans till 2007. Those type of republicans probably don't even know what a student loan is.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Brehvolution on January 20, 2009, 07:00:23 PM

A fatherless child who put himself through Harvard is still a filthy poor in their eyes.
smh
He was still paying off student loans till 2007. Those type of republicans probably don't even know what a student loan is.

True.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 20, 2009, 07:02:33 PM

A fatherless child who put himself through Harvard is still a filthy poor in their eyes.
smh
He was still paying off student loans till 2007. Those type of republicans probably don't even know what a student loan is.

Goddamn, is that true.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on January 20, 2009, 07:11:41 PM
You can mock him as the "messiah" ala Rush, but even that rings hollow. He's a genuinely cool guy who treats people fairly. It's no wonder why people on the fringes of the right are so scared of him. Obama may strongly disagree with someone but he's  going to go out his way to hear their argument. People like Rush/Palin/etc and the other "good vs evil" people need to evolve.

I think that is what steams the right wing's clams more than anything.  Obama isn't partisan enough, making their job much tougher to really do.  So they invent stuff or have various meltdowns.  For the next 4-8 years, we'll be seeing a lot of desperate straw grasping and I'll love every minute of it.

Quote
If Obama has a relatively good first term and stays out of trouble...what will the republicans be able to do in 2012?

Continue to vent impotent rage and then kill off the remaining scraps of the GOP by having a Palin ticket.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Oblivion on January 20, 2009, 07:14:35 PM

A fatherless child who put himself through Harvard is still a filthy poor in their eyes.
smh
He was still paying off student loans till 2007. Those type of republicans probably don't even know what a student loan is.

Wow, so he's a filthy poor too?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: cool breeze on January 20, 2009, 07:15:04 PM
http://i.gizmodo.com/5135625/cnns-inauguration-day-photosynth-compiles-crowdsourced-photos-in-3d-but-its-no-hologram

 
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on January 20, 2009, 07:41:19 PM
I'm saying we will have some sort of national banking entity to prop up the private ones by april

Pfft...

I'll be shocked if it doesn't happen within a month. Heck, as bad as things continued to slide today, they may need to do it by the end of the month.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Brehvolution on January 20, 2009, 07:55:35 PM
I really hope Obama holds these people accountable since the Bush administration turned a blind eye. A lot of people got rich off of wall st. and sub prime lending, but the only blame I've ever heard was brought on the poors "living beyond their means."
After seeing my mortgage statement for the year.
$8,000+ interest
~$600 on principal
I've lost a ton of faith in a financial system that sets people up to fail. It is legal thievery. :maf

And guess what's next! I'll probably have to borrow all that equity back in 10 years to put my oldest through college. Who knows if I'll be able to afford to put the other 2 through by then. :'(
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on January 20, 2009, 08:33:09 PM
Putting them through college?  Make them pay their own way like I had to.

I don't expect any kind of accountability from the Bush era.  Punishing these people doesn't really do any good because the mentality and philosophy has poisoned the system, not individuals.  It isn't like these individuals were being particularly devious or crafty.  The public fell in love with privatization because they wanted to save a few bucks on their taxes not knowing or really caring what the long term consequences might be.

The best we might get is a show trial type situation where the company CEOs, Presidents, etc. have a hangdog expression while Congress berates them (while voting for these businesses' initiatives a couple years prior).  Then when push comes to shove, they'll do very little.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: lordmaji on January 20, 2009, 08:39:35 PM
President Iraq Hussian Osama Bin Ladin.

The end is nigh!  :o
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Positive Touch on January 20, 2009, 10:45:49 PM
Putting them through college?  Make them pay their own way like I had to.

I don't expect any kind of accountability from the Bush era.  Punishing these people doesn't really do any good because the mentality and philosophy has poisoned the system, not individuals.  It isn't like these individuals were being particularly devious or crafty.  The public fell in love with privatization because they wanted to save a few bucks on their taxes not knowing or really caring what the long term consequences might be.

The best we might get is a show trial type situation where the company CEOs, Presidents, etc. have a hangdog expression while Congress berates them (while voting for these businesses' initiatives a couple years prior).  Then when push comes to shove, they'll do very little.

Doesn't do any good?  Really?  I mean they blatantly broke the law repeatedly on the grounds that hey, it's the fucking president and he can do what he wants.  All the dumbfuck talking heads can say "Good job, he's helping America move past this," but there are plenty of little toads out there who will see the complete lack of accountability and use it to their advantage somewhere on down the line.  The Bush administration had no real regard for law or the will of the public, and tried as best they could to enact their agenda by any means necessary, but they at least tried to act like they cared about the law to avoid prosecution.  I couldn't even imagine how bad things could get if the people in charge decided it wasn't even worth doing that anymore.  Shame that the Dems probably won't pursue prosecutions we'll be paying for it later on.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: patrickula on January 20, 2009, 10:54:49 PM
I went to the national mall both today and on Sunday during the concert thing... to watch a jumbotron out in the cold with a fuckton of people both times  :lol

But hey, I was there, and I'm local anyway (though the walk to the mall I took today isn't a short one).
I was lucky enough to see Obama's motorcade speed by Sunday, I think I saw his hand waving in there :omg

Anyway, I just feel relieved now, for the most part, that it's finally happened and Bush/Cheney are finally out.  Hopefully he does well... signs have been looking pretty good so far from my perspective.  It'll have to be a big improvement.

edit: We also saw Bush's helicopter flying out on our way home... kinda cool.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on January 20, 2009, 10:57:35 PM
so um is anything going to happen now?  this is boring. 

and don't tell me it's 11pm and the presidenty people are going to bed.  if i had just become president i would totally be up all night issuing executive orders and proclamations and shit.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mr. Gundam on January 20, 2009, 11:00:22 PM
so um is anything going to happen now?  this is boring. 

and don't tell me it's 11pm and the presidenty people are going to bed.  if i had just become president i would totally be up all night issuing executive orders and proclamations and shit.

They're attending all the Inaugural Balls in D.C. The girls are at the White House watching movies while Mom and Dad are partying until 3am.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: AdmiralViscen on January 20, 2009, 11:14:19 PM
For those who remain really upset about Barack Obama’s election, here is a new argument contesting his legitimacy, courtesy of Fox News Channel. Noting that Chief Justice John Roberts flubbed his recitation of the oath of office during the swearing-in ceremony, Chris Wallace, the Fox News anchor, said: “I’m not sure that Barack Obama really is the President of the United States. Because the oath of office is set in the Constitution, and I wasn’t at all convinced that even after he tried to amend it that John Roberts ever got it out straight and that Barack Obama ever said the prescribed words. I suspect that everybody is going to forgive him and allow him to take over as president but I’m not sure he actually said what is in the Constitution.”

from the times

lmfao, I said this as a joke while watching it
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mr. Gundam on January 20, 2009, 11:15:21 PM
For those who remain really upset about Barack Obama’s election, here is a new argument contesting his legitimacy, courtesy of Fox News Channel. Noting that Chief Justice John Roberts flubbed his recitation of the oath of office during the swearing-in ceremony, Chris Wallace, the Fox News anchor, said: “I’m not sure that Barack Obama really is the President of the United States. Because the oath of office is set in the Constitution, and I wasn’t at all convinced that even after he tried to amend it that John Roberts ever got it out straight and that Barack Obama ever said the prescribed words. I suspect that everybody is going to forgive him and allow him to take over as president but I’m not sure he actually said what is in the Constitution.”

from the times

lmfao, I said this as a joke while watching it

http://larrysinclair-0926.blogspot.com/2009/01/obama-fails-to-take-oath-as-required-by.html
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mr. Gundam on January 20, 2009, 11:44:13 PM
Anyone see this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i3J1bSjAqA

Quote
After Obama's speech this morning, on a small triangle of grass between the Lincoln Memorial and the Memorial Bridge, we discovered a giant inflatable statue of George W. Bush, posed like the famously-toppled statue of Saddam Hussein in Baghdad. The statue had a plaque that described Bush matter-of-factly, with no punch-line, allowing viewers to project their own feelings onto the work. It had guy lines loosely holding it up from various points. You can probably guess what happened next.

You didn't guess someone would face-hump it?

People also threw shoes, water bottles, and anything else they could find.

A father and son team brought the statue from Minnesota and set it up here without a permit. They told us they had asked authorities if they needed one, but police said they had no specific rules against inflatables, so it could stay. Some park police apparently even thanked them for it, thinking it a tribute to the outgoing president. They seemed as surprised as we were that it hadn't been removed. The statue was conceived by the 20-year-old son as an art project.

It made our day.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 20, 2009, 11:45:07 PM
so um is anything going to happen now?  this is boring. 

and don't tell me it's 11pm and the presidenty people are going to bed.  if i had just become president i would totally be up all night issuing executive orders and proclamations and shit.
The President and Michelle are dancing right now on tv for like a few hours now. Or as the President called it "kicking it old school".
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Positive Touch on January 20, 2009, 11:45:50 PM
as cnn pointed out, obama automatically became president at 12:00 p.m. because the swearing in is a formality and not required by the constitution
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Brehvolution on January 20, 2009, 11:48:32 PM
:rofl   DM

That was awesome!
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: patrickula on January 20, 2009, 11:51:15 PM
I saw that inflatable Bush statue in person on the way to memorial bridge, it was pretty awesome.  They kept pulling it down and people would take pictures.  I got a couple of shots.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: drew on January 21, 2009, 03:06:49 AM
weed legal yet?

hopefully never

you'll see why once you smoke too much of it
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: lordmaji on January 21, 2009, 03:20:56 AM
weed legal yet?

hopefully never

you'll see why once you smoke too much of it

hater. :(
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Flannel Boy on January 21, 2009, 04:53:18 AM
Weed never did anything for me, but it should, obviously, be legal.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: chronovore on January 21, 2009, 05:11:40 AM
For those who remain really upset about Barack Obama’s election, here is a new argument contesting his legitimacy, courtesy of Fox News Channel. Noting that Chief Justice John Roberts flubbed his recitation of the oath of office during the swearing-in ceremony, Chris Wallace, the Fox News anchor, said: “I’m not sure that Barack Obama really is the President of the United States. Because the oath of office is set in the Constitution, and I wasn’t at all convinced that even after he tried to amend it that John Roberts ever got it out straight and that Barack Obama ever said the prescribed words. I suspect that everybody is going to forgive him and allow him to take over as president but I’m not sure he actually said what is in the Constitution.”

from the times

lmfao, I said this as a joke while watching it

I thought the same shit. And then I wondered if the justice administering had been the one to mess it up. I couldn't picture Obama, a known smooth talker, to have flubbed something. He looked surprised, then patiently waited for the guy to correct himself.

Anyway, I'd love to see some rightwing nutjob try to bring that to court. Hannity could deal with having that comment spread far and wide, revealing him for the petty, screeching, feeble excuse of a journalist he is. Man, who the hell is that guy's core audience? Other shrill nutjobs?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: cloudwalking on January 21, 2009, 08:56:59 AM
i saw this today while walking around:

(http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n156/meganekko_pie/obamabeck.jpg)

(daily special: OBAMA MUFFINS)

i couldn't help it, i bought two.

(http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n156/meganekko_pie/obamamuffins.jpg)

yummmmmy

i'm so glad obama is president now if it results in glorious muffins like this being produced :hyper
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: tiesto on January 21, 2009, 09:27:59 AM
Once your shitty banks are all under, you'll be begging for Canadian beaver pelts.

Canadian beaver pelts :drool
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 21, 2009, 11:53:02 AM
Wow its really happening:
(http://markhalperin.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/360_obama_oval_0121.jpg)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: T234 on January 21, 2009, 11:55:59 AM
weed legal yet?

hopefully never

you'll see why once you smoke too much of it

lol distinguished Apple fellow
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Rman on January 21, 2009, 11:58:32 AM

A fatherless child who put himself through Harvard is still a filthy poor in their eyes.
smh
He was still paying off student loans till 2007. Those type of republicans probably don't even know what a student loan is.

Wow, so he's a filthy poor too?
He's mostly been a public servant all his life.  That's not where the high salaries are.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Bloodwake on January 21, 2009, 12:05:20 PM
So, anyone hear about ex-president Bush and what he's up to today?

That has a nice ring to it: Ex-President Bush.


:D
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eric P on January 21, 2009, 12:15:03 PM
120 day halt to all gitmo proceedings

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: T234 on January 21, 2009, 12:16:16 PM
That was FAST
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 21, 2009, 12:37:48 PM
I knew as soon as I got into this thread, I would see more info about your tweet, cloud.

I am jealous  :'(
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: cloudwalking on January 21, 2009, 12:59:14 PM
I knew as soon as I got into this thread, I would see more info about your tweet, cloud.

I am jealous  :'(

what's your twitter username?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 21, 2009, 01:02:49 PM
I knew as soon as I got into this thread, I would see more info about your tweet, cloud.

I am jealous  :'(

what's your twitter username?

Oh shit, I forgot you weren't following me.  It's DeathbyVolcano.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: cloudwalking on January 21, 2009, 01:03:53 PM
I knew as soon as I got into this thread, I would see more info about your tweet, cloud.

I am jealous  :'(

what's your twitter username?

Oh shit, I forgot you weren't following me.  It's DeathbyVolcano.

didn't realize it was you! i'll add you :)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: chronovore on January 21, 2009, 08:46:06 PM
120 day halt to all gitmo proceedings


Wuuuuuu00t!
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: CurseoftheGods on January 21, 2009, 08:52:21 PM
:teehee
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on January 21, 2009, 09:29:48 PM
Here's a bunch of epic pictures from yesterday:


http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/01/the_inauguration_of_president.html

spoiler (click to show/hide)
(http://cache.boston.com/universal/site_graphics/blogs/bigpicture/44_01_21/4403_17681689.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eric P on January 21, 2009, 09:37:50 PM
good lord that spoilered picture
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Brehvolution on January 21, 2009, 09:40:52 PM
That is awesome TA. Anyone hear any estimates? Is 2.3M anywhere close?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Beezy on January 21, 2009, 10:03:07 PM
Eww, it's an infestation.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 21, 2009, 10:15:20 PM
it's good to know that when our 1000 foot tall invaders come, they'll be disgusted by us running before they stomp us
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: CajoleJuice on January 21, 2009, 10:16:47 PM
holy fuck
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Beezy on January 21, 2009, 10:27:42 PM
it's good to know that when our 1000 foot tall invaders come, they'll be disgusted by us running before they stomp us

Megatron: Ugh, fleshlings...
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Great Rumbler on January 21, 2009, 10:51:54 PM
Here's a bunch of epic pictures from yesterday:


http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/01/the_inauguration_of_president.html

spoiler (click to show/hide)
(http://cache.boston.com/universal/site_graphics/blogs/bigpicture/44_01_21/4403_17681689.jpg)
[close]

"From up here all the people look like ants!"

"They are ants."
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Crushed on January 21, 2009, 11:14:46 PM
little do they know that as we speak, obama is already struggling with his illuminati masters

they try to control him, but he will not falter. he will reveal to the public... the wu-tang secret. this will have major and immediate global political consequences, unprecedented in nature.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Madrun Badrun on January 21, 2009, 11:16:12 PM
Here's a bunch of epic pictures from yesterday:


http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/01/the_inauguration_of_president.html

spoiler (click to show/hide)
(http://cache.boston.com/universal/site_graphics/blogs/bigpicture/44_01_21/4403_17681689.jpg)
[close]

Hey that looks like the wastelands in fallout 3!   :o

spoiler (click to show/hide)
I hate that I have to say I'm only joking  :'(
[close]
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on January 21, 2009, 11:23:30 PM
The illuminati is toothless.  Oprah's "dark crusaders" and the gay mafia have finally taken over.

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: trh on January 22, 2009, 02:15:55 AM
http://gamu-toys.info/sonota/sw/obama/obama.html
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: lordmaji on January 22, 2009, 02:26:03 AM
(http://gamu-toys.info/sonota/sw/obama/DSC_4696.JPG)


Holy Shit  :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol I want one!

 :lol :lol that's awesome
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Crushed on January 22, 2009, 09:03:50 AM
Obama-sama sighed as he drew his twin katana. The gaijin must pay for the second swearing-in.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on January 22, 2009, 10:28:10 AM
So since he was sworn in twice does Obama have like double president powers now?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Crushed on January 22, 2009, 10:29:50 AM
So since he was sworn in twice does Obama have like double president powers now?
(http://i42.tinypic.com/16ism5x.jpg)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on January 22, 2009, 10:31:11 AM
 :o  That's even cooler! 
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Crushed on January 22, 2009, 11:33:10 AM
Does this mean he gets to serve only 1 term?  :(
If any Republican actually tries to argue this, it will prove that they all have the minds of children.



It'll be nice to have a president that actually works for a change, though, considering that Bush spent 487 days at Camp David and 490 days at his ranch in Crawford. (http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/01/16/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry4728085.shtml)

aka, 2 and 2/3 years on vacation, or a third of his presidency
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Tauntaun on January 22, 2009, 12:15:24 PM
Does this mean he gets to serve only 1 term?  :(
If any Republican actually tries to argue this, it will prove that they all have the minds of children.



It'll be nice to have a president that actually works for a change, though, considering that Bush spent 487 days at Camp David and 490 days at his ranch in Crawford. (http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/01/16/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry4728085.shtml)

aka, 2 and 2/3 years on vacation, or a third of his presidency

:o  wow   :maf
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: chronovore on January 22, 2009, 11:18:20 PM
From the ACLU newsletter today:
Quote
With four executive orders today, our new President:

    * Ordered Guantánamo Bay shut down
    * Banned torture
    * Ordered a full review of U.S. detention policies and procedures, and
    * Delayed the trial of Ali al-Marri, an ACLU client whose case is at the center of the Supreme Court’s review of indefinite detention policies.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 22, 2009, 11:20:55 PM
From the ACLU newsletter today:
Quote
With four executive orders today, our new President:

    * Ordered Guantánamo Bay shut down
    * Banned torture
    * Ordered a full review of U.S. detention policies and procedures, and
    * Delayed the trial of Ali al-Marri, an ACLU client whose case is at the center of the Supreme Court’s review of indefinite detention policies.
:bow

He has done more things I approve of in his first 2 days than Bush did in 8 years.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Brehvolution on January 22, 2009, 11:21:07 PM
So he is a terrorist sympathizer.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
lol
[close]
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on January 22, 2009, 11:30:06 PM
(http://people-press.org/reports/images/485-1.gif)


My global warming disinformation campaign is working! :bow Let the checks roll in now.


http://people-press.org/report/485/economy-top-policy-priority
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Flannel Boy on January 22, 2009, 11:34:05 PM
LOL at deficit reduction. Good luck  :lol
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: patrickula on January 22, 2009, 11:54:02 PM
Obama's looking crazy good to me so far  8)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on January 22, 2009, 11:57:28 PM
closing gitmo? he's already making the mistakes of our last black president, Wayne Palmer  :-\
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Oblivion on January 22, 2009, 11:59:09 PM
Wow its really happening:
(http://markhalperin.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/360_obama_oval_0121.jpg)

What, he's finally contacting Batman?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: treythemovie on January 23, 2009, 02:46:05 AM
Wow its really happening:
(http://markhalperin.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/360_obama_oval_0121.jpg)

What, he's finally contacting Batman?

Batman is going to be Secretary of Closing Gitmo

(http://i42.tinypic.com/24uxnc7.gif)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on January 23, 2009, 08:15:07 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/23/arts/music/23band.html?_r=2&hp (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/23/arts/music/23band.html?_r=2&hp)

I actually thought to myself how incredible it was that they were playing so well in freezing weather. smh...
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: AdmiralViscen on January 23, 2009, 10:27:06 AM
The Obama facade is quickly crumbling....
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on January 23, 2009, 11:31:07 AM
Is Gitmo really going to be closed, or will Obama just say hey I tried but the republicans didn't want change. Plus I can't help but think it's dangerous: if an attack occurs, he'll be blamed for freeing terrorists regardless of whether that had any influence on it.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 23, 2009, 12:16:13 PM
The Obama facade is quickly crumbling....
Based on what exactly? I can't think of a single thing he hasn't done in his first 3 days in offices that go against his campaign promises. Hell he has been pushing through his campaign promises at a far faster rate than Bush or Clinton did.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: dammitmattt on January 23, 2009, 12:16:43 PM
From the ACLU newsletter today:
Quote
With four executive orders today, our new President:

    * Ordered Guantánamo Bay shut down
    * Banned torture
    * Ordered a full review of U.S. detention policies and procedures, and
    * Delayed the trial of Ali al-Marri, an ACLU client whose case is at the center of the Supreme Court’s review of indefinite detention policies.

God Damn, looks like the next 4 years is going to be FILLED with awesome.

In times like these, we need Jack Bauer more than ever.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 23, 2009, 12:30:42 PM
From the ACLU newsletter today:
Quote
With four executive orders today, our new President:

    * Ordered Guantánamo Bay shut down
    * Banned torture
    * Ordered a full review of U.S. detention policies and procedures, and
    * Delayed the trial of Ali al-Marri, an ACLU client whose case is at the center of the Supreme Court’s review of indefinite detention policies.

God Damn, looks like the next 4 years is going to be FILLED with awesome.

In times like these, we need Jack Bauer more than ever.
Under President Obama Bauer would be rotting in jail probably lol.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eric P on January 23, 2009, 01:40:18 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdBE5Y-jNSo
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 23, 2009, 01:43:41 PM
President Obama apparently has ordered a un-manned drone air strike of certain parts of Pakistan . hahah wtf


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/01/23/terror/main4749317.shtml

7 were killed.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 23, 2009, 01:45:21 PM
 :-\
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: bud on January 23, 2009, 01:48:24 PM
i still don't get why they used the bible instead of the koran.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 23, 2009, 01:49:53 PM
Yeah, I probably flipped too much, but the fucker doesn't explain wtf he means.  It's frustrating.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Barry Egan on January 23, 2009, 02:51:48 PM
Yeah, I probably flipped too much, but the fucker doesn't explain wtf he means.  It's frustrating.

Pheonix Dark scolded me when I bitched about Dax on EB  :'(

jk, PD just pointed out that the kid is like 15.  But so is Green Man and he's a way better poster then fucking Dax.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 23, 2009, 03:47:09 PM
The guy is fucking 15?  Wow, never fucking mind.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: demi on January 23, 2009, 04:17:04 PM
ha ha ha you got trolled by a 15 year old. maybe you should cut your beard as punishment
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 23, 2009, 04:22:24 PM
Dax always asks the most meaningless questions just to ask questions in poligaf. It is so weird.

And he isn't 15. He is like about to turn 18 I think.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on January 23, 2009, 04:25:47 PM
I'm pretty sure he's 16
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Brehvolution on January 23, 2009, 04:42:19 PM
My favorite dax posts running up to the election in poligaf were, "I just got back from school. What did I miss?" Some people did summaries at first, then they were like "dude, you ain't amir0x. Read up yourself."

He never did that again.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 23, 2009, 04:46:18 PM
He asks a lot of questions where there is NO WAY the answer would be at all useful to him but he asks them anyway. Like if poligaf is discussing some new exec. order from obama he always pops in and asks something useless like "oh what time did he sign it?" "was sitting in his desk?" or something.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: y2kev on January 23, 2009, 04:50:10 PM
Dax sux. Most of poligaf sucks though.  
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 23, 2009, 04:51:38 PM
It's better now than when 80% of the posts were poll numbers.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on January 23, 2009, 04:56:22 PM
It's better now than when 80% of the posts were poll numbers.

Haha, not really. Polls have been replaced by live blogging TDS or Fox news.




Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 23, 2009, 05:00:05 PM
It's better now than when 80% of the posts were poll numbers.

Haha, not really. Polls have been replaced by live blogging TDS or Fox news.





The amount of liveblogging of FoxNews is amazing. I wonder what type of ratings it'd get if all the liberals who have a persecution complex stopped watching it. I never got that. You don't see right-wingers religiously watch Keith Olbermann just so they have more reasons to hate him. It's odd.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Brehvolution on January 23, 2009, 05:02:34 PM
Olberman maybe the bane of the right wing, but he doesn't intentionally mislead or outright lie.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 23, 2009, 05:06:40 PM
I never really got into his show, I don't like watching someone yell and rant even if I agree with him. I rather watch Maddow who is waaaay more level headed and has lots of republicans on her show.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 23, 2009, 06:24:06 PM
Ugh, facebook has become horrible in the last couple of days.  Just read this:

"FUCKFACE thinks obama is a dumfuk i dont want to spend my own mony on dumasses who want abortions"

jesus  :-\

needless to say, I deleted him.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Robo on January 23, 2009, 06:26:48 PM
I'm stealing that status.  It's fucking brilliant.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 23, 2009, 06:32:37 PM
Living in Ohio, I get a shitload of people with status updates like that:

"God Bless George Bush, history will vindicate you!"
"getting shopping done before barak sends in the terrists :)"
"ashamed of my faschist president..."
"who fucking likes this communist?"---noted, the last two were from the same person
"god, he needs assinated (spelled exactly like that"

ugh.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Robo on January 23, 2009, 06:38:23 PM
he does need assinated :hump
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on January 23, 2009, 07:21:24 PM
Quote
"ashamed of my faschist president..."

that's actually a better spelling than the more common "facist", though, as it makes more sense (especially given the wrong, but understandable, supposition of the word's German origin he's probably made).

edit: in fact that IS how it's rendered in German apparently.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: drew on January 23, 2009, 07:38:57 PM
Living in Ohio, I get a shitload of people with status updates like that:

"God Bless George Bush, history will vindicate you!"
"getting shopping done before barak sends in the terrists :)"
"ashamed of my faschist president..."
"who fucking likes this communist?"---noted, the last two were from the same person
"god, he needs assinated (spelled exactly like that"

ugh.

you sure you dont live in Michigan?

im pretty sure you live in Michigan
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 23, 2009, 07:47:06 PM
they're pretty much the same
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on January 23, 2009, 08:09:17 PM
next time ask them what fascist means, and what socialist means while you're at it.

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: demi on January 23, 2009, 08:58:42 PM
whats this racist shit.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Kestastrophe on January 23, 2009, 09:01:31 PM
no shit, I always thought that it was spelled "facist". good lookin out recursive
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 23, 2009, 09:51:43 PM
next time ask them what fascist means, and what socialist means while you're at it.



I just delete them, they aren't worth arguing with.  They're convinced that Obama is still a terrorist.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 23, 2009, 09:57:32 PM
I wouldn't blame Ohio, Obama won Ohio by a solid margin. You just have some fucked up friends.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 23, 2009, 09:58:45 PM
And come on? MI hate? Michigan has been against Bush and co. for a lot longer than the rest of the country.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 23, 2009, 10:03:00 PM
I still want to know how he found anyone like that to be friends with. There are people who are under 30 who like Bush? I didn't even realize that was possible. Other than crazy religious christian conservatives. And if you hang out with those crowds.... :-\
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Positive Touch on January 23, 2009, 10:14:05 PM
i always assumed he meets a lot a shithead fratboys
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 23, 2009, 10:21:38 PM
i always assumed he meets a lot a shithead fratboys
That's even worse.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 23, 2009, 11:07:37 PM
I'm just one of those guys who used to accept pretty much anyone who friend requested me on facebook from my high school, but I've learned the hard way to not do that.  These were not ever my friends.

And yes, I WOULD blame Ohio, at least the part I'm from.  It's a middle-class town with trust fund kiddies who believe everything their parents tell them and don't open up to new ideas.  The worst cases believe, yes, that Bush was a great president.

And yes, the irony of it all is that these kids became fratboys and have gained like 60 lbs already.

And Michigan and Ohio are hardly different.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 23, 2009, 11:20:22 PM
And Michigan and Ohio are hardly different.
Politically? Seeing how that is what the topic is they are. Obama won MI by a lot more than he did in OH, and Bush won OH both times he ran. Democrats carried MI both times. MI is a lot more democratic than OH.

Although I live in Ann Arbor so what I see it skewed. US News & World Report called it one of the 5 most liberal friendly cities in the country and pot is decriminalized...etc. So I see MI through a different lense than most of the state.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: y2kev on January 23, 2009, 11:21:45 PM
what a fucking weirdo. rubix cubes.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 23, 2009, 11:24:44 PM
Meh, tt's all anecdotal for me.  From what I've experienced in the middle-to-upper class communites of both Ohio and Michigan, the majority of kids who can't even fucking vote yet will tell you how Obama's letting in the turrists.

and yeah, wtf at rubix cubes.  Whatever guy out there who doesn't even watch the fucking Super Bowl is wacky.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: CajoleJuice on January 23, 2009, 11:27:23 PM
makes a rule and then waives it for someone the next day

obama lol
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 23, 2009, 11:59:21 PM
 From what I've experienced in the middle-to-upper class communites of both Ohio and Michigan, the majority of kids who can't even fucking vote yet will tell you how Obama's letting in the turrists.


The white under 25 group was one of Obama's strongest voting blocks, yes in OH as well. You live in bizarro land.


and yes rubix cubes.  :lol poor kid. I bet he wears a pocket protector.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 24, 2009, 12:04:01 AM
Here we go, from CNN:

Ohio (18-24):
Obama: 61%
McCain: 38%

Michigan (18-24):
Obama: 67%
McCain: 30%
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Guybrush Threepwood on January 24, 2009, 12:14:25 AM
(http://i40.tinypic.com/11tqy52.jpg)

get it away get it away
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on January 24, 2009, 12:17:00 AM
It is kind of refreshing to have some competent leadership.  However, I'm so used to it being so subpar that this is kind of a new experience for me.

I know a lot of under 25 people that are Republicans.  They're not Jesus freaks or really rich people.  A lot of it has to do with their parents.  If their parents are Republicans, there is a decent chance the kids will be too.  Mostly social factors.  Then you got the upper middle class kids that think they're going to be millionaires that bitch about taxes holding them back from being a millionaire.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on January 24, 2009, 12:23:52 AM
http://tinyurl.com/dbngl4 (http://tinyurl.com/dbngl4)

omfg  :lol :lol :lol

This is fuck awesome
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Crushed on January 24, 2009, 12:47:38 AM
It is kind of refreshing to have some competent leadership.  However, I'm so used to it being so subpar that this is kind of a new experience for me.

It's amazing, isn't it? We spent the last 8 years under a president who makes previous disgraces look 'Not That Bad' in comparison.

(http://i43.tinypic.com/m7dhmo.jpg)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on January 24, 2009, 12:54:15 AM
Marty Lederman, who's blogged about the Bush admin torture and detention policies over the last few years, has gotten a job in the Obama administration.

He'll be Deputy Assistant Attorney General in the Office of Legal Counsel, which is John Yoo's job.  Yoo is a huge bete noir of the left and a top 5 Worst Living American, so this gets a bajillion good symbolism points.

Lederman's written as much and as well about the legal issues of torture as much as anyone, whereas John Yoo thinks the president should be allowed to crush all the innocent, underage testicles he wants. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt1-eWU2Ii0)

Also, one of the executive orders says that the government can't rely on any legal opinions given from 2001-2008 on torture, basically retconning away all the damaging bullshit written by Yoo, David Addington, and the rest of the assholes.

Fuckin sweet.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Flannel Boy on January 24, 2009, 01:18:53 AM
A lot of it has to do with their parents.  If their parents are Republicans, there is a decent chance the kids will be too.  Mostly social factors. 

Children are likely to absorb their parents' political affiliations, regardless of what those affiliations are--this isn't simply a Republican thing. The same is true with their political ideologies, but this is strongly influenced by genetic factors. (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/21/science/21gene.html?ei=5090&en=dde7d8feedd2f87f&ex=1277006400&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=print)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Positive Touch on January 24, 2009, 01:28:03 AM
Also, one of the executive orders says that the government can't rely on any legal opinions given from 2001-2008 on torture, basically retconning away all the damaging bullshit written by Yoo, David Addington, and the rest of the assholes.

holy damn that is awesome.  can i get the source?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on January 24, 2009, 01:58:45 AM
Also, one of the executive orders says that the government can't rely on any legal opinions given from 2001-2008 on torture, basically retconning away all the damaging bullshit written by Yoo, David Addington, and the rest of the assholes.

holy damn that is awesome.  can i get the source?

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/EnsuringLawfulInterrogations/

Quote from: Executive Order
(c)  Interpretations of Common Article 3 and the Army Field Manual.  From this day forward, unless the Attorney General with appropriate consultation provides further guidance, officers, employees, and other agents of the United States Government may, in conducting interrogations, act in reliance upon Army Field Manual 2 22.3, but may not, in conducting interrogations, rely upon any interpretation of the law governing interrogation -- including interpretations of Federal criminal laws, the Convention Against Torture, Common Article 3, Army Field Manual 2 22.3, and its predecessor document, Army Field Manual 34 52    issued by the Department of Justice between September 11, 2001, and January 20, 2009.

I honestly didn't expect so much early action in this area.  Obama's campaign was run mostly on bread-and-butter issues and he wasn't exactly Russ Feingold in the Senate.  Plus you never bet on politicians voluntarily giving up power.

But the early signals about detainee policy and transparency have been really, really good.  Time will tell yadda yadda, but still.  Good times.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: chronovore on January 24, 2009, 03:30:41 AM
It's better now than when 80% of the posts were poll numbers.

Haha, not really. Polls have been replaced by live blogging TDS or Fox news.





The amount of liveblogging of FoxNews is amazing. I wonder what type of ratings it'd get if all the liberals who have a persecution complex stopped watching it. I never got that. You don't see right-wingers religiously watch Keith Olbermann just so they have more reasons to hate him. It's odd.

It's not odd. Fox News has been feeding the hate and ignorance cycle which typified the reigning party of the last eight years. When liberals wanted to know why the rest of America was acting in such a reactionary manner, usually there was one good place to check. We had been looking for reasons why things were such utter shit.

In contrast, there was no real reason why right-wing needed to know what liberals were thinking at all. They had control over all three branches of government, and the most popular news sources supported their worldview. Why ask questions?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on January 24, 2009, 10:07:27 AM
Man, it is terrible to think just how far to the right Bush was of Nixon.

A lot of it has to do with their parents.  If their parents are Republicans, there is a decent chance the kids will be too.  Mostly social factors. 

Children are likely to absorb their parents' political affiliations, regardless of what those affiliations are--this isn't simply a Republican thing. The same is true with their political ideologies, but this is strongly influenced by genetic factors. (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/21/science/21gene.html?ei=5090&en=dde7d8feedd2f87f&ex=1277006400&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=print)

I agree but people were asking why there is a good number of young Republicans.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on January 24, 2009, 10:28:53 AM
makes a rule and then waives it for someone the next day

obama lol

"I won"
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Crushed on January 24, 2009, 10:55:19 AM
Quote
President Obama told the Republican lawmakers that "you can't just listen to Rush Limbaugh and get things done."
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2009/01/61847002/1

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/MastahCrushed/Emote/emot-damn.gif)



on a related note, to remind you all that rush limbaugh is a hate-filled idiot loon: (http://thinkprogress.org/2009/01/21/limbaugh-foia-bush/)
Quote
What I’m afraid of is that what Obama did with this executive order is actually make it easier for the media to go get Bush documents. Because you know Pelosi and some of the guys over in Congress are talking about war crimes trials and charges and so forth. […]

What I’m afraid of is what Obama’s done here is made the gathering of the information for this kind of stuff– This is not American. This is not America. This is not what America does. We don’t– This is Banana Republic kind of stuff.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 24, 2009, 10:55:50 AM
makes a rule and then waives it for someone the next day

obama lol

"I won"
He did win, as did his party. In a landslide. Republicans need to remember that. There is a mandate for the public for big government spending, Republicans in the senate seem to understand this (McConnel has all but said the GOP in the senate will support Obama's stimulus package without opposition) but the GOP in the house is still in some sort of denial about it.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: y2kev on January 24, 2009, 10:59:31 AM
The House of Representatives is a collective piece of shit.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Crushed on January 24, 2009, 11:01:38 AM
He did win, as did his party. In a landslide. Republicans need to remember that. There is a mandate for the public for big government spending, Republicans in the senate seem to understand this (McConnel has all but said the GOP in the senate will support Obama's stimulus package without opposition) but the GOP in the house is still in some sort of denial about it.

Democrats also have a hard time accepting the idea that they won. Which they need to get over.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on January 24, 2009, 11:02:51 AM
accountability is unamerican

well, some might contend that ...
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: y2kev on January 24, 2009, 11:03:44 AM
He did win, as did his party. In a landslide. Republicans need to remember that. There is a mandate for the public for big government spending, Republicans in the senate seem to understand this (McConnel has all but said the GOP in the senate will support Obama's stimulus package without opposition) but the GOP in the house is still in some sort of denial about it.

Democrats also have a hard time accepting the idea that they won. Which they need to get over.
Haha, agreed. But they did pay a lot of lip service to the notion of bipartisanship and cooperation, so I don't blame them for at least being cautious. But I fully expect Pelosi to steamroll the house GOP when she needs to, and if she doesn't, she's lol.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 24, 2009, 11:04:39 AM
He did win, as did his party. In a landslide. Republicans need to remember that. There is a mandate for the public for big government spending, Republicans in the senate seem to understand this (McConnel has all but said the GOP in the senate will support Obama's stimulus package without opposition) but the GOP in the house is still in some sort of denial about it.

Democrats also have a hard time accepting the idea that they won. Which they need to get over.
Obama doesn't seem to have a hard time. He pretty much smacked the house republican leadership around on friday to remind him he was in charge and the public picked him and his ideas. Which is all that matters. Despite some odd statements from Reid/Pelosi they will both do what he wants and if Obama asserts himself as the person with the ideas the public wants, which he did forcefully on Friday that is all that is important.

Just be glad someone with the very very strong sense of confidence like Obama is president and a traditional Dem senator.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: y2kev on January 24, 2009, 11:17:36 AM
The President has the power of persuasion. He has the bully pulpit and he'll use it.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: brawndolicious on January 24, 2009, 11:18:05 AM
There's no real reason to cheer Obama's torture and guantanomo bay orders.  Torture was something that the majority of the public and both of the candidates condemned so all of this was decided by both candidates months ago.  If he gets something done about the economy and somewhat fixes the reputation of American politics, then he'll have done a decent job.

It's way too soon to say that we have "competent leadership".
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: AdmiralViscen on January 24, 2009, 11:19:05 AM
He did win, as did his party. In a landslide. Republicans need to remember that. There is a mandate for the public for big government spending, Republicans in the senate seem to understand this (McConnel has all but said the GOP in the senate will support Obama's stimulus package without opposition) but the GOP in the house is still in some sort of denial about it.

Democrats also have a hard time accepting the idea that they won. Which they need to get over.
Obama doesn't seem to have a hard time. He pretty much smacked the house republican leadership around on friday to remind him he was in charge and the public picked him and his ideas. Which is all that matters. Despite some odd statements from Reid/Pelosi they will both do what he wants and if Obama asserts himself as the person with the ideas the public wants, which he did forcefully on Friday that is all that is important.

Just be glad someone with the very very strong sense of confidence like Obama is president and a traditional Dem senator.

Link to this bitchslap?



Oh, is this it? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/24/AR2009012400661.html

Did this occur before or after Boehner came out to the press and started talking about how people putting their tax rebates in the bank helps the economy?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on January 24, 2009, 11:24:10 AM
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0109/17862.html (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0109/17862.html)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Crushed on January 24, 2009, 11:27:48 AM
HOW DARE HE /hypocritical republican outrage
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: The Fake Shemp on January 24, 2009, 11:33:40 AM
Moar antics from King Obama lol am i rite
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Third on January 24, 2009, 11:33:50 AM
Should I care as an European?  :-\

Obama looks nicer than Bush. And that's the only difference to me...

I don't understand all the Obama hype.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Crushed on January 24, 2009, 11:35:44 AM
Should I care as an European?  :-\

Obama looks nicer than Bush. And that's the only difference to me...

I don't understand all the Obama hype.

Obama isn't a fascist idiot boy-king who actively hates brown people and gays.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: y2kev on January 24, 2009, 11:38:18 AM
John Boner is the biggest douche I've ever seen. Seriously, nice spray on tan.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on January 24, 2009, 11:39:56 AM
I don't care what he says. But, its pretty awesome he's so eager to put his name on such a gigantic pile of shit. Four million new jobs by the end of 2010? LMFAO...
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: OptimoPeach on January 24, 2009, 12:02:21 PM
(http://i43.tinypic.com/2lm02mp.jpg)

:bow Libertarians :bow2
:bow Sherdog forums :bow2
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 24, 2009, 12:10:48 PM
First Youtube Address as President:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDfpd8GV9dI
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Guybrush Threepwood on January 24, 2009, 12:20:04 PM
Libertarians are nutty but at least they are actually conservatives.

I don't know a single Republican who is truly a conservative (especially since all the Republicans I know think the government should ban abortion and gay marriage).
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: demi on January 24, 2009, 12:20:10 PM
YouTube :bow

Finally, someone who works at my level. Now I can watch Obama and funny South Park clips at the same time!
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on January 24, 2009, 12:23:39 PM
Should I care as an European?  :-\

Obama looks nicer than Bush. And that's the only difference to me...

I don't understand all the Obama hype.

Competent leadership is damn near considered revolutionary in modern US politics.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 24, 2009, 12:30:51 PM
Should I care as an European?  :-\

Obama looks nicer than Bush. And that's the only difference to me...

I don't understand all the Obama hype.

Competent leadership is damn near considered revolutionary in modern US politics.
Pretty much. Also I think a lot of European's are confused seeing how it's common for them to elect intellectual liberals as prime minister/president, it's fucking rare in America.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Beezy on January 24, 2009, 12:35:06 PM
 :lol @ the White House having a youtube page
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 24, 2009, 12:36:48 PM
:lol @ the White House having a youtube page
It's a new era one where the president listens to rap music, sends text messages, and post youtube videos!
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Beezy on January 24, 2009, 12:56:22 PM
:lol @ the White House having a youtube page
It's a new era one where the president listens to rap music, sends text messages, and post youtube videos!
And watches shows like The Wire.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 24, 2009, 12:56:47 PM
No man, that's fucking sexy.  It is just so so so awesome.

We never EVER got a speech/public address from Bush containing so much INFORMATION and legit POLICY structure in his entire run as President.  It was always "we're doing something...but don't worry, you'll know soon enough what we did hehhehhehheh!"
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Brehvolution on January 24, 2009, 01:17:47 PM
Quote
President Obama told the Republican lawmakers that "you can't just listen to Rush Limbaugh and get things done."
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2009/01/61847002/1

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/MastahCrushed/Emote/emot-damn.gif)

Quote
"But I just want to say, folks, look I support Obama. I just don't support his policies. I support our president, like I have supported all presidents. I just don't support Obama's policies. I don't support the nationalization of the banks, which has happened. I don't support the nationalization of the auto companies. I don't support the nationalization of the mortgage business. I don't like Barney Frank and Chris Dodd running things. And I don't want that to continue.

I think Limbag is confused about who the nationalization of these things were done under.

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on January 24, 2009, 01:52:51 PM
makes a rule and then waives it for someone the next day

obama lol

"I won"

Seems like Obama doesn't take criticism well at all.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Greatness Gone on January 24, 2009, 08:20:42 PM
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k305/alastore/1232846167512.jpg)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: bud on January 24, 2009, 08:34:28 PM
 :tbslol
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on January 24, 2009, 08:40:01 PM
i'm sorry but "Your Weekly Address" is vaguely creepy

wow, I can't believe they left comments open :lol
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: brawndolicious on January 24, 2009, 10:24:06 PM
Do you think it's intentional to get people to actually watch it?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: demi on January 24, 2009, 10:31:07 PM
I expect it to get hacked within the first 3 months
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Guybrush Threepwood on January 25, 2009, 10:48:42 AM
wtf

(http://i42.tinypic.com/6z1nat.jpg)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Beezy on January 25, 2009, 11:28:19 AM
 :lol
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Tauntaun on January 26, 2009, 11:33:29 AM
^^ :rofl 
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Tauntaun on January 26, 2009, 12:07:09 PM
First Youtube Address as President:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDfpd8GV9dI


I like that he's giving us actual updates about what he's trying to do. 
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: demi on January 26, 2009, 12:25:29 PM
http://recovery.gov/

Such horrible code  :yuck
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Purple Filth on January 26, 2009, 12:48:42 PM
wtf

(http://i42.tinypic.com/6z1nat.jpg)

your soul is mine?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 26, 2009, 01:10:24 PM
http://recovery.gov/

Such horrible code  :yuck
at least obama's whitehouse.gov is 1000000x better designed than the old whitehouse.gov site.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on January 26, 2009, 04:13:10 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/26/woodward-suggests-future_n_160832.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/26/woodward-suggests-future_n_160832.html)

Any guesses?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: patrickula on January 26, 2009, 05:43:45 PM
http://recovery.gov/

Such horrible code  :yuck
I just looked  :-X

I like how you can see who made it in the head.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 26, 2009, 05:46:35 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/26/woodward-suggests-future_n_160832.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/26/woodward-suggests-future_n_160832.html)

Any guesses?
If there is a nanny issue in his administration it isn't Obama himself since the Obama's pride themselves on never having a nanny.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Rman on January 26, 2009, 06:19:51 PM
Woodward is such a hack now it's not even funny.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: trh on January 26, 2009, 06:26:18 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fbn2ALh-2VA

(http://i42.tinypic.com/2eamk9e.gif)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 26, 2009, 06:34:21 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fbn2ALh-2VA

(http://i42.tinypic.com/2eamk9e.gif)
So aliens are liberals?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: AdmiralViscen on January 26, 2009, 10:32:23 PM
Obama said in his Arab interview that he believes it is possible for there to be a contiguous Palestinian state.

How is that possible? Is there an existing proposal that includes a provision like that?


He did admit that he had no timeframe for it, to be fair.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: y2kev on January 26, 2009, 10:50:21 PM
Sunken causeway maybe?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on January 26, 2009, 10:54:31 PM

Is GOP Still a National Party?

Quote
by  Patrick J. Buchanan

As President Barack Obama delivers his inaugural address to a nation filled with anticipation and hope, the vital signs of the loyal opposition appear worse than worrisome.

The new majority of 49 states and 60 percent of the nation Nixon cobbled together in 1972, that became the Reagan coalition of 49 states and 60 percent of the nation in 1984, is a faded memory. Demographically, philosophically and culturally, the party base has been shrinking since Bush I won his 40-state triumph over Michael Dukakis. Indeed, the Republican base is rapidly becoming a redoubt, a Fort Apache in Indian country.

In the National Journal, Ron Brownstein renders a grim prognosis of the party's chances of recapturing the White House. Consider:

In the five successive presidential elections, beginning with Clinton's victory in 1992 and ending with Obama's in 2008, 18 states and the District of Columbia, with 248 electoral votes among them, voted for the Democratic ticket all five times. John McCain did not come within 10 points of Obama in any of the 18, and he lost D.C. 92-8.

The 18 cover all of New England, save New Hampshire; New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania and Maryland; four of the major states in the Midwest -- Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin and Minnesota; and the Pacific Coast states of California, Oregon, Washington and Hawaii.

Three other states -- Iowa, New Hampshire and New Mexico -- have gone Democratic in four of the past five presidential contests. And Virginia and Colorado have ceased to be reliably red.

Not only are the 18 hostile terrain for any GOP presidential ticket, Republicans hold only three of their 36 Senate seats and fewer than 1 in 3 of their House seats. "Democrats also control two-thirds of these 18 governorships, every state House chamber, and all but two of the state Senates," writes Brownstein.


In many of the 18, the GOP has ceased to be competitive. In the New England states, for example, there is not a single Republican congressman. In New York, there are only three.

"State by state, election by election," says Brownstein, "Democrats since 1992 have constructed the party's largest and most durable Electoral College base in more than half a century. Call it the blue wall."

While that Democratic base is not yet as decisive as the Nixon-Reagan base in the South, and the Plains and Mountain States, it is becoming so solidified it may block any Republican from regaining the White House, in the absence of a catastrophically failed Democratic president.

What does the Republican base look like?

In the same five presidential contests, from 1992 to 2008, Republicans won 13 states all five times. But the red 13 have but 93 electoral votes, fewer than a third of the number in "the blue wall."

What has been happening to the GOP? Three fatal contractions.

Demographically, the GOP is a party of white Americans, who in 1972 were perhaps 90 percent of the national vote. Nixon and Reagan rolled up almost two-thirds of that vote in 1972 and 1984. But because of abortion and aging, the white vote is shrinking as a share of the national vote and the population.

The minorities that are growing most rapidly, Hispanics and Asians, cast 60 to 70 percent of their presidential votes for the Democratic Party. Black Americans vote 9-1 for national Democrats. In 2008, they went 30-1.

Put succinctly, the red pool of voters is aging, shrinking and dying, while the blue pool, fed by high immigration and a high birth rate among immigrants, is steadily expanding.

Philosophically, too, the country is turning away from the GOP creed of small government and low taxes. Why?

Nearly 90 percent of immigrants, legal and illegal, are Third World poor or working-class and believe in and rely on government for help with health and housing, education and welfare. Second, tax cuts have dropped nearly 40 percent of wage earners from the tax rolls.

If one pays no federal income tax but reaps a cornucopia of benefits, it makes no sense to vote for the party of less government.

The GOP is overrepresented among the taxpaying class, while the Democratic Party is overrepresented among tax consumers. And the latter are growing at a faster rate than the former.

Lastly, Democrats are capturing a rising share of the young and college-educated, who are emerging from schools and colleges where the values of the counterculture on issues from abortion to same-sex marriage to affirmative action have become the new orthodoxy.

The Republican "lock" on the presidency, crafted by Nixon, and patented by Reagan, has been picked. The only lingering question is whether an era of inexorable Republican decline has set in.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: demi on January 26, 2009, 10:57:14 PM
http://recovery.gov/

Such horrible code  :yuck
I just looked  :-X

I like how you can see who made it in the head.

LOL they closed an h3 tag with an h5... that's too funny... to me
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 26, 2009, 10:58:51 PM
I wouldn't get ahead of ourselves. Could this be the Democrats Reagan revolution? Sure, and it most likely is. But It was only 8 years after the big 49/50 sweep of 1984 that Democrats retook the White House.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: y2kev on January 26, 2009, 10:59:26 PM
"fort apache in indian country" lmao pat
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Madrun Badrun on January 26, 2009, 11:04:53 PM
 :lol :lol :lol :lol at that picture
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on January 26, 2009, 11:05:38 PM
I wouldn't get ahead of ourselves. Could this be the Democrats Reagan revolution? Sure, and it most likely is. But It was only 8 years after the big 49/50 sweep of 1984 that Democrats retook the White House.

The economy is in shambles. We're in two wars. It's more than possible for everything to blow up in Obama's face by 2012, especially if the stimulus doesn't pan out as hoped
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 26, 2009, 11:08:04 PM
It is far too soon to tell but Obama could join the ranks of teflon President's where no matter what happens the public still likes him. Like for example if Iran Contra happened to Bush Sr. and not Reagan? I wouldn't have been surprised if Bush Sr. would have ended up impeached, but Reagan was teflon so the public (for the most part) forgave and forgot. Obama may also have that inherent support as well Mr. Cooks.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Brehvolution on January 26, 2009, 11:30:29 PM
The republicans aren't stupid. They knew that they fucked up too much and the 2nd half of the Bush administration was just enough time to cut and run off with as much as they could get and let the Democrats dig the country out. All being on the hope that the Dems will screw it up and the country will run back to the republicans begging for their forgiveness after 4 years of downsizing/reality check.

It's as if the GOP heads declared, "Fine middle class, have your king! And you shall live in the filth of your desires."  As they raped til inauguration day.

 Edit:  :hans1
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on January 27, 2009, 12:14:35 AM
I wouldn't get ahead of ourselves. Could this be the Democrats Reagan revolution? Sure, and it most likely is. But It was only 8 years after the big 49/50 sweep of 1984 that Democrats retook the White House.
It is far too soon to tell but Obama could join the ranks of teflon President's where no matter what happens the public still likes him. Like for example if Iran Contra happened to Bush Sr. and not Reagan? I wouldn't have been surprised if Bush Sr. would have ended up impeached, but Reagan was teflon so the public (for the most part) forgave and forgot. Obama may also have that inherent support as well Mr. Cooks.

Jesus, this is like Kidz Politikz Storytime.  Stop it.

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: The Fake Shemp on January 27, 2009, 12:15:39 AM
TEAM OF RIVALZ
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Crushed on January 27, 2009, 12:26:12 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fbn2ALh-2VA

(http://i42.tinypic.com/2eamk9e.gif)
So aliens are liberals?
(http://i39.tinypic.com/scc29v.gif)
http://www.hiddencodes.com/obama/index.htm

 :hans1
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on January 27, 2009, 01:48:52 AM
The republicans aren't stupid. They knew that they fucked up too much and the 2nd half of the Bush administration was just enough time to cut and run off with as much as they could get and let the Democrats dig the country out. All being on the hope that the Dems will screw it up and the country will run back to the republicans begging for their forgiveness after 4 years of downsizing/reality check.

It's as if the GOP heads declared, "Fine middle class, have your king! And you shall live in the filth of your desires."  As they raped til inauguration day.

 Edit:  :hans1

One of the worst things for conservatives is that many of their bread and butter arguments aren't effective anymore, well at least not right now. The economic discussion ground has shifted from small government to big ass government, and people want more. Like here in Michigan where most people were clammering for the auto bailout; maybe they couldn't see the full picture concerning the "wall street bailout" but people realized that Ford going out of business=you or someone you know loses their job.

Once things get better the conservatives will be able to come out the woodwork and say hey, things are ok but government is too big. Right now it seems like non of the republican talking points are sticking with people.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Rman on January 27, 2009, 01:53:50 AM
So what do you guys think of Bam's stimulus plan? House republican leaders have already expressed their objections, wanting more tax cuts and such.  I mean, really.  Tax cuts in these times, when two wars are being waged, and the Treasury is bailing out  companies to the tune of billions of dollars.  Does the GOP believe that the federal government operates on monopoly money?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Fragamemnon on January 27, 2009, 01:58:48 AM
Tax Cuts won't work. House Republicans aren't making arguments against the stimulus in good faith and House Dems should ram it through on a party line vote instead of letting Boehner's idiot brigade anywhere near the bill. If it is too partisan let the senate fix it.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Rman on January 27, 2009, 02:05:36 AM
Tax Cuts won't work. House Republicans aren't making arguments against the stimulus in good faith and House Dems should ram it through on a party line vote instead of letting Boehner's idiot brigade anywhere near the bill. If it is too partisan let the senate fix it.
I was just surprised at Boehner's audacity.  The GOP was spanked last November, and we have newly elected President whose first week poll numbers rival JFK, and yet he still wants to bring up policies that American populace has no appetite for in these turbulent economic times. 

McCain--LOL--also mentioned how he wanted to make the Bush cuts permanent, echoing another failed talking point--trickle down economics--from his unsuccessful presidential bid.  I mean these are senior GOP leaders of Congress.  It's amazing how out of touch their party is with middle class priorities.

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on January 27, 2009, 02:09:52 AM
Frag/Mandark/etc, do you like the stimulus? Does it seem like there's an excess of stuff that should maybe be in another type of bill? I'm not done going over it

on tax cuts: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/26/opinion/26krugman.html?em
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Rman on January 27, 2009, 02:12:22 AM
Frag/Mandark/etc, do you like the stimulus? Does it seem like there's an excess of stuff that should maybe be in another type of bill? I'm not done going over it

on tax cuts: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/26/opinion/26krugman.html?em
LOL @ "I won". I love that.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eric P on January 27, 2009, 09:09:12 AM
Quote
But because of abortion and aging, the white vote is shrinking as a share of the national vote and the population.

because of what now?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on January 27, 2009, 09:12:13 AM
So what do you guys think of Bam's stimulus plan? House republican leaders have already expressed their objections, wanting more tax cuts and such.  I mean, really. 
Well, the idea of a "stimulus" is to infuse money into the economy as quickly (and efficiently) as possible. Tax cuts (while not a perfect solution) are the quickest and most effective way to get money back into the hands of working people.

 
Quote
One of the worst things for conservatives is that many of their bread and butter arguments aren't effective anymore, well at least not right now.
The scale of everthing is out of wack. The enormity of the bailouts have dwarfed any kind of spending program that the Dems have proposed in recent history. So, its kind of
laughable to complain about spending.

because of what now?
Abortions are disproportionately killing future Republicans.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Rman on January 27, 2009, 10:27:06 AM
The stimulus plan does include tax cuts, mostly for the middle class.  I'm not against tax cuts as whole; I just feel some GOP leaders can become very myopic on the issue.  The Obama adminstration has even talked about temporarily extending the Bush cuts, which disproportionately benefited the top 5 percent earners.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Brehvolution on January 27, 2009, 10:30:31 AM
The stimulus plan does include tax cuts, mostly for the middle class.  I'm not against tax cuts as whole; I just feel some GOP leaders can become very myopic on the issue.  The Obama adminstration has even talked about temporarily extending the Bush cuts, which disproportionately benefited the top 5 percent earners.

You may already know this, but the GOP openly doesn't give a shit about the middle class. They view any extra benefits given to the middle class as socialism but what they really mean is the rich are not making as much.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Tauntaun on January 27, 2009, 10:54:31 AM
So where's my free monay?   >:(  I may not technically BE black but I FEEL black....in my penis.   :-* 
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on January 27, 2009, 11:05:07 AM
Quote
but the GOP openly doesn't give a shit about the middle class


Republicans hate small business?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eric P on January 27, 2009, 11:08:58 AM
because of what now?
Abortions are disproportionately killing future Republicans.

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/mapstatesabrate.html

wow.

I honestly don't really think about abortion a lot so i had no idea what i'd find if i went looking.  if the data from 85 is accurate then abortion is going down?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Brehvolution on January 27, 2009, 11:14:50 AM
Quote
but the GOP openly doesn't give a shit about the middle class


Republicans hate small business?


Is the owner a millionaire?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: CajoleJuice on January 27, 2009, 11:17:17 AM
Looks like abortions are disproportionally killing New Yorkers to me.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on January 27, 2009, 11:18:03 AM
Quote
Stating the Obvious

I hear a lot of talk about whether Obama's governing approach can be 'bipartisan' if good number of Republicans don't vote for his Stimulus Bill. But that dubious point seems to be obscuring a more obvious and telling reality: that the Republican leadership in both houses has decided that it's in their political interest to oppose the Stimulus Bill no matter what.

In the most cynical of evaluations, it's not clear to me that they're incorrect. If the stimulus is judged a success, their political gain from adding more votes to what will be seen as Obama's bill will not be that great. So they're figuring that only failure will work for them politically and judge that they want Obama to own it entirely.

One can pick apart the political ethics of their stand, but the reality of it is clear. They want to criticize as many provisions of the bill as possible, push for as many non-stimulus inducing tax cuts as possible at the expense of spending on infrastructure, and then vote against the final bill en masse. I think it's possible Obama will get a smattering of moderate Republicans in the senate. But that is Boehner/McConnell approach -- and the one few if any reporters seem to have the wherewithal to say out loud.

--Josh Marshall
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Brehvolution on January 27, 2009, 11:29:00 AM
Quote
In the most cynical of evaluations, it's not clear to me that they're incorrect. If the stimulus is judged a success, their political gain from adding more votes to what will be seen as Obama's bill will not be that great. So they're figuring that only failure will work for them politically and judge that they want Obama to own it entirely.
  :american

I guess I can remove my tinfoil hat now.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on January 27, 2009, 11:38:57 AM
I think I found out where Triumph is hiding lately

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/01/mcconnell-republicans-are-more-in-line-with-obama-than-dems.php
Comments section. Check out Steve LaBonne ha

This reminds me of the team of rivals backlash among some people who said hiring Clinton was a bad move since she'd be a huge loyalty problem and blah blah blah. If Obama believed that he wouldn't have hired her, regardless of the team of rivals idea; he hired who he thought was the best candidate, not who fit the team of rivals specs.

Same here, at least I hope think. His advisers are probably telling him this very moment that tax cuts won't work. He knows they won't work. So if anything this mating dance is being done just so he can honestly say he tried to work with the GOP, but they fucked it up. He's not going to let his love of bipartisanship cloud his vision of what will work, and more importantly he's not going to risk his first huge piece of legislation being a failure/ruining his presidency/etc just so he can get 4 republicans to vote with him.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on January 27, 2009, 11:59:21 AM
So what do you guys think of Bam's stimulus plan?

Its a complete joke and could quite possibly seal his fate as a one-termer. But, its also a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

I understand that he has to make it as pretty as possible to sell it, but the idea that it will create 4 million jobs by the end of 2010 is absolutely lolz-worthy. I've done a lot of research on this. Many economists feel we may very well be on the verge of a Japan 90s-style economy for years to come. We'll probably begin to come out of this by the end of the year or early next year, but growth will be so weak it will still feel like a recession. And remember, job growth is always a lagging indicator. It took about two years after each of the last two recessions to finally see job growth (not to mention the economy has to average ~125k new jobs per month to keep up with population growth). Those recessions were very mild compared to this one. Even Obama's own rosey-colored report shows the unemployment rate higher in 2012 than right now. There's just too much debt in the system for things to recover so quickly (~350% of GDP). Another wave of subprime mortgage resets just as potent as the one going on now will hit next year and go through 2011. Taxes will have to go up to pay for the deficits and the much higher carrying costs. People expecting a return to anything remotely resembling a 97-07 type economy are delusional.  

For the REPs, I suspect the vote on this bill could be the REP version of the DEM Iraq War vote in coming elections.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on January 27, 2009, 12:06:13 PM
if the data from 85 is accurate then abortion is going down?

Yea, I don't get into abortion debates. But one of the interesting facts is that the rate of abortion is trending downwards overall.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eric P on January 27, 2009, 12:16:12 PM
if the data from 85 is accurate then abortion is going down?

Yea, I don't get into abortion debates. But one of the interesting facts is that the rate of abortion is trending downwards overall.

well i went looking just to see if there were more abortions in "white" areas but that didn't seem to be the case

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 27, 2009, 12:38:55 PM
Anyone who thinks the GOP are "tricking" Obama by trying to take everything they can out of the stimulus package and then voting against it anyway to doom it so they democrats are blamed for the economy are crazy.

Do those guys at TPM really think Obama  (and Rahm Emanual &  Biden, both heavily involved in these talks and know the ways of congress) may have thought of this? Only 1-2 blog posters discovered that the GOP is tricking Obama?

 It's ludicrous. Obama and his crew know what they are doing with the GOP, they aren't that stupid.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on January 27, 2009, 12:47:25 PM

well i went looking just to see if there were more abortions in "white" areas but that didn't seem to be the case


Well, I was being sarcastic with that remark. But, you could probably make a good "real world" case either way on which type of group would have abortions.

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on January 27, 2009, 12:54:43 PM
Politico is reporting the house GOP is set to walk away from the negotiating table.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 27, 2009, 12:56:50 PM
 :lol

The senate republicans are still somewhat on board right?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 27, 2009, 12:57:47 PM
le sigh
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Brehvolution on January 27, 2009, 12:58:07 PM
Repubs want Bush's tax cuts made permanent. Which effectively kills Obama's tax plan he campaigned on.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Brehvolution on January 27, 2009, 12:58:40 PM
Politico is reporting the house GOP is set to walk away from the negotiating table.
They should lock the door after they leave.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 27, 2009, 01:02:31 PM
Being the party of "NO!" won't get them anywhere. People won't vote for a party with no ideas and just says no to the other sides policy, which is what the Republican party is right now.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on January 27, 2009, 01:07:56 PM
They're walking away? Fine, do the stimulus correctly then. Obama took out the family planning money for them, he took their ideas on tax cuts, etc yet they refuse to cooperate.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eric P on January 27, 2009, 01:10:24 PM
They're walking away? Fine, do the stimulus correctly then. Obama took out the family planning money for them, he took their ideas on tax cuts, etc yet they refuse to cooperate.

he's being TOO cooperative

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Brehvolution on January 27, 2009, 01:15:35 PM
They're walking away? Fine, do the stimulus correctly then. Obama took out the family planning money for them, he took their ideas on tax cuts, etc yet they refuse to cooperate.
He is not doing enough to help the wealthy.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on January 27, 2009, 01:16:37 PM
Now it's time to pull the rug and assert some toughness. Obama should treat this first challenge like the first night in jail. You either fuck someone up hard to send a message or become someone's bitch
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Fragamemnon on January 27, 2009, 01:16:53 PM
he's being way too cooperative, agreed.  There's bigger political risk opposing the stimulus than there is supporting it given the disastrous economic news these days.

Do the stimulus without their shit and call their bluff.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Rman on January 27, 2009, 01:18:03 PM
So what do you guys think of Bam's stimulus plan?

Its a complete joke and could quite possibly seal his fate as a one-termer. But, its also a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

I understand that he has to make it as pretty as possible to sell it, but the idea that it will create 4 million jobs by the end of 2010 is absolutely lolz-worthy. I've done a lot of research on this. Many economists feel we may very well be on the verge of a Japan 90s-style economy for years to come. We'll probably begin to come out of this by the end of the year or early next year, but growth will be so weak it will still feel like a recession. And remember, job growth is always a lagging indicator. It took about two years after each of the last two recessions to finally see job growth (not to mention the economy has to average ~125k new jobs per month to keep up with population growth). Those recessions were very mild compared to this one. Even Obama's own rosey-colored report shows the unemployment rate higher in 2012 than right now. There's just too much debt in the system for things to recover so quickly (~350% of GDP). Another wave of subprime mortgage resets just as potent as the one going on now will hit next year and go through 2011. Taxes will have to go up to pay for the deficits and the much higher carrying costs. People expecting a return to anything remotely resembling a 97-07 type economy are delusional.  

For the REPs, I suspect the vote on this bill could be the REP version of the DEM Iraq War vote in coming elections.

It definitely is a very risky plan--largest government stimulus plan in history, even with dollars adjusted to inflation.  However, if it works or not, that will not be measured for some time.  If the economic situation becomes dire it can hurt Obama's reeclection bid, but I honestly haven't heard any other significant proposals from the GOP.  They basically agree with the plan in principle but want Obama to make some concessions, i.e. keeping Bush's cuts permanent and removing family planning dollars from the plan.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on January 27, 2009, 01:29:45 PM
There is a bit of posturing on both sides of this. Obama knows he can get this passed without the dissenters. The Dem majority (and Rep swing vote) is large enough to get it done, with a few concessions.

Obama will allow for this public show so people know who the roadblocks are.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on January 27, 2009, 01:51:24 PM
I think its funny how after telling the house GOP "I won" he comes back to them with his tail between his legs today to try to win some of them back. They just got out of the meeting and apperently Obama told them he's "not too proud to have full authorship of the bill". Well no fucking shit. The whole point of making it "bipartisan" is to give the DEMs political cover for when this thing fails. The proof is in the pudding. If they were sure the plan would work, then both sides would be climbing over each other trying to sign on. As it is now, Obama is begging the house GOP to get aboard while the GOP is backing further away everyday.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on January 27, 2009, 02:00:13 PM
I think you missed the point of his "I won" quip dude

Nor is he trying to spread blame just in case. It's not like both parties were ever going to come together and pass this; at most Obama wanted maybe 6 or so republicans so they could get on TV and praise this newfound spirit of bipartisanship.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on January 27, 2009, 02:31:15 PM
He wanted 80 senators voting for it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/29/AR2008122902037.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/29/AR2008122902037.html)


Ran across this from today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mG4g04J-xYQ&eurl
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 27, 2009, 02:36:03 PM
Quote
Obama to GOP: "Feel Free to Whack Me Over the Head"


Why would he say that? lol
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on January 27, 2009, 02:42:19 PM
(http://www.sarahpac.com/images/top-banner.jpg)


I love the implication of that logo. It shows how large Alaska is in landmass in relation the US. So, of course Sarah can run the country ... it's only a little bigger than Alaska!

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eric P on January 27, 2009, 02:49:17 PM
she looks like wonder woman in that picture for some reason
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on January 27, 2009, 03:11:13 PM
If you look close enough you can just barely see Russia in that pic. Nice subtlety...
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Guybrush Threepwood on January 27, 2009, 06:29:43 PM
why is she still relevant?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: chronovore on January 27, 2009, 08:12:26 PM
Quote
In the most cynical of evaluations, it's not clear to me that they're incorrect. If the stimulus is judged a success, their political gain from adding more votes to what will be seen as Obama's bill will not be that great. So they're figuring that only failure will work for them politically and judge that they want Obama to own it entirely.
  :american

I guess I can remove my tinfoil hat now.

Bob Dole did the same thing in his bid. He got up and bitched about how Clinton had failed to pass much of anything through congress; I recall Dole was the spearhead of that overwhelming resistance to Clinton's proposed legislation. Though I am remembering Dole using the filibuster a record number of times to prevent a number of Clinton's proposals, thirty-seconds-of-googling is not providing me the links desired.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on January 27, 2009, 08:18:15 PM
Internal minutes from Obama's meeting with GOP leaders today
http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/01/internal_minutes_of_obamas_mee.php
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 27, 2009, 09:05:37 PM
taxes taxes taxes
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on January 27, 2009, 09:07:14 PM
Stimulus is up to ~$900 billion with the addition of a $69 billion AMT shield.

I heard earlier that the real cost is over $1.2 trillion when you figure in borrowing costs.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 27, 2009, 09:16:36 PM
When we are in the worst economic crisis since the great depression how much the govt. is spending should be the least of our worries.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 27, 2009, 09:20:07 PM
Even though I agree with you Cheebs, that's a broad enough statement that's sure to get the conservatives huffed up.

Especially if it's someone like JayDubya
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Brehvolution on January 27, 2009, 09:23:23 PM
It's really sad that the republicans are so hung up on this "refundability" for those who don't pay income tax. They fail to comprehend the idea of money trickling up vs. trickling down. There are far more poor people than rich people. By giving the poor an extra grand or so to spend a year far outweighs giving the money to the rich via tax breaks for them just to keep it to cushion the losses they sustained recently. the money "given" to the non-taxpayer goes right back into the system whereas the alternative doesn't.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on January 27, 2009, 09:23:51 PM
You cannot fix a problem of debt and over leverage with more debt and more leverage.

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 27, 2009, 09:25:44 PM
You cannot fix a problem of debt and over leverage with more debt and more leverage.



That's an easy thing to say, but there's a major difference of leadership with this, so...

I don't know, I'm pretty indifferent.  I'd like to hear OTHER options, but right now the right is far too concerned with sticking to their party platform ties rather than truly examining the semantics of the plan.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Brehvolution on January 27, 2009, 09:26:19 PM
The GOP stance on spending should be thrown out much the same way it was when they had the power.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on January 27, 2009, 09:29:57 PM
It's really sad that the republicans are so hung up on this "refundability" for those who don't pay income tax.

Its creating a sizable hole in entitlement funding. That money is not being made up from anywhere else. Pretty ironic considering that Bush's SS privitization plan was DOA because it would have done the same thing (albeit on a much larger scale).
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on January 27, 2009, 09:35:24 PM
I'd like to hear OTHER options...

I haven't really heard much that would be considered middle of the road other than what we're seeing from Capitol Hill. Everything is pretty much on the extreme from Krugman's suggestion of something like a $2 trillion plan to those on the right who suggest tax holidays that would equal the cost of the proposed stimulus.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on January 27, 2009, 09:41:23 PM
I like how now that Bush is out of office, the Republicans are apparently the party of fiscal responsibility again.  LOL.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: y2kev on January 27, 2009, 09:44:17 PM
I think there's too much danger here. The stimulus probably won't work and the Republicans are going to be completely absolved of it. Obama will be fine-- he's sold himself-- but Congressional dems could be screwed.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: huckleberry on January 27, 2009, 09:44:37 PM
I like how now that Bush is out of office, the Republicans are apparently the party of fiscal responsibility again.  LOL.

Don't judge us based on what we did before.  Judge us on what we are going to do for the future....or something like that.

/McCain
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on January 27, 2009, 10:33:21 PM
the stimulus is pretty packed with pork. get rid of anything related to farm subsidies and/or the flyover midwest -- let them rot. they've been depressed since the 90s.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on January 27, 2009, 11:02:40 PM
Actually, most of the midwest cities had a renaissance of sorts in the mid-late 90's. Growth that wasn't false, like the dot com boom or real estate speculation.

I don't really care what Obama does .. but I just hope he allows some businesses/banks to die. Buoying these failed corporations will only lengthen our malaise.

I'm kind of curious when all of this fear will turn into anger and the return of the anti-incumbent mood will fuel the voters. I would love to see every congressperson with more than a decade of experience put out on their asses.


Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: chronovore on January 28, 2009, 12:28:41 AM
I want to get that Obama action figure, and make it beat up the Bush figure wearing the flightsuit.
http://www.onlinedid.com/products/obama_action_figure/
http://talkingpresidents.com/products-af-bush-fs.shtml
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on January 28, 2009, 11:51:20 AM
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123310466514522309.html (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123310466514522309.html)

Utterly indefensible...
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eric P on January 28, 2009, 11:53:23 AM
Quote
We've looked it over, and even we can't quite believe it. There's $1 billion for Amtrak, the federal railroad that hasn't turned a profit in 40 years; $2 billion for child-care subsidies; $50 million for that great engine of job creation, the National Endowment for the Arts; $400 million for global-warming research and another $2.4 billion for carbon-capture demonstration projects. There's even $650 million on top of the billions already doled out to pay for digital TV conversion coupons.


this is what you're outraged over?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on January 28, 2009, 12:08:06 PM
Quote
We've looked it over, and even we can't quite believe it. There's $1 billion for Amtrak, the federal railroad that hasn't turned a profit in 40 years; $2 billion for child-care subsidies; $50 million for that great engine of job creation, the National Endowment for the Arts; $400 million for global-warming research and another $2.4 billion for carbon-capture demonstration projects. There's even $650 million on top of the billions already doled out to pay for digital TV conversion coupons.


this is what you're outraged over?


That money could be much better spent on 12 billion dollar a month wars!
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 28, 2009, 12:08:18 PM
Quote
We've looked it over, and even we can't quite believe it. There's $1 billion for Amtrak, the federal railroad that hasn't turned a profit in 40 years; $2 billion for child-care subsidies; $50 million for that great engine of job creation, the National Endowment for the Arts; $400 million for global-warming research and another $2.4 billion for carbon-capture demonstration projects. There's even $650 million on top of the billions already doled out to pay for digital TV conversion coupons.


this is what you're outraged over?


Every single one of those things sound worthy of spending except perhaps tv conversion coupons.

It's obvious people opposed are people opposed to defect spending to begin with. These programs are for the benefit of the population. It's not like they are throwing money at the bridge to nowhere.


People opposed to spending massively to save the economy need to give something to replace it with to help stop the recession because OMG TAX CUTS aren't solutions to the problem.

At least Obama has put forward a potential solution and the money goes to worthy causes. Is it perfect? No, but at least he is doing something unlike the do-nothing Republicans who are having temper tantrums and whining constantly.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on January 28, 2009, 12:10:21 PM
This article is pretty ridiculous:

Quote
Most of the rest of this project spending will go to such things as renewable energy funding ($8 billion) or mass transit ($6 billion) that have a low or negative return on investment. Most urban transit systems are so badly managed that their fares cover less than half of their costs. However, the people who operate these systems belong to public-employee unions that are campaign contributors to . . . guess which party?

Yeah, there's NO LOGICAL REASON to invest in renewable energy.  And mass transit?  WHY NOT JUST PUT THE MONEY BACK IN DEMOCRATS' POCKETS? 
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eric P on January 28, 2009, 12:12:02 PM
man was the WSJ always like this or have they just gone coco for coocoo puffs since murdoch happened?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 28, 2009, 12:13:31 PM
So he is opposed to creating jobs because these new workers might become democrats?  :lol It's better to be unemployed than have a job that tends to lead people democrat? Wonderful.

Wait, I thought republicans claim the unemployed vote democrat cause of OMG WELFARE CHECKS, isn't it a lose-lose for this guy then?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on January 28, 2009, 12:14:43 PM
More fun:

Quote
Another "stimulus" secret is that some $252 billion is for income-transfer payments -- that is, not investments that arguably help everyone, but cash or benefits to individuals for doing nothing at all. There's $81 billion for Medicaid, $36 billion for expanded unemployment benefits, $20 billion for food stamps, and $83 billion for the earned income credit for people who don't pay income tax. While some of that may be justified to help poorer Americans ride out the recession, they aren't job creators.

Because, you know, there certainly won't be an unemployment benefits rush this year.  And really, everyone knows that food stamp enrollment and medicaid serve no purpose in what looks to be a giant recession, right?  Right?

So the WSJ is pissed off that the bill is preparing for inevitable things?  Republicans would rather have unemployment flopza first and then have the government move incredibly slowly for a month to fix it, maybe?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: HyperZoneWasAwesome on January 28, 2009, 12:20:09 PM
man was the WSJ always like this or have they just gone coco for coocoo puffs since murdoch happened?
They've always had conservative columnists, but its only been lately they've had brazenly stupid conservative columnists.
Because, you know, there certainly won't be an unemployment benefits rush this year.  And really, everyone knows that food stamp enrollment and medicaid serve no purpose in what looks to be a giant recession, right?  Right?

So the WSJ is pissed off that the bill is preparing for inevitable things?  Republicans would rather have unemployment flopza first and then have the government move incredibly slowly for a month to fix it, maybe?
I'm convinced that there's a core Republican belief that its okay to let people starve to death as long as they're poor. 

Also starve may be substituted for...
-freeze from living in the street
-get blown up by IED's
-drown in natural disasters
-suffer mortal infections from back-alley-abortions
-get shot by automatic weapons
-get food poisoning from deregulated and poorly inspected food
-killed by Dick Cheney for sport
-die due to negligence on part of shitty health care system

there's more but I'm running late for class.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 28, 2009, 12:21:06 PM
Yup, utterly indefensible...

ellipses...
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on January 28, 2009, 12:40:49 PM
The strawmen are strong in this thread.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on January 28, 2009, 12:42:05 PM
There's undeniably lots of wasteful shit in that bill, but I can't help but chuckle that conservatives are finally concerned about wasteful spending again
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eric P on January 28, 2009, 12:43:19 PM
There's undeniably lots of wasteful shit in that bill, but I can't help but chuckle that conservatives are finally concerned about wasteful spending again

ever since 2006 for some reason

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on January 28, 2009, 12:46:06 PM
The strawmen are strong in this thread.

Dude, I am sure there are plenty of bad things and garbage stuffed into this bill.  That article, however, didn't really mention anything convincingly damning (The Office of Management and Budget or the Government Accountability Office I don't know about, but the article calling them "ineffective" is hardly proof of anything since it's written with a pretty obvious Republican bias).
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Crushed on January 28, 2009, 12:47:43 PM
The strawmen are strong in this thread.

pot
kettle
etc.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on January 28, 2009, 01:06:18 PM
Quote
It's not like they are throwing money at the bridge to nowhere.

No, there's 400 million going to global warming research. Pretty much the same thing.


Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Rman on January 28, 2009, 01:10:53 PM
man was the WSJ always like this or have they just gone coco for coocoo puffs since murdoch happened?
The WSJ opinion page has always been like that.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on January 28, 2009, 01:37:05 PM
The actual spending part:

2009: 29.0
2010: 115.8
2011: 105.5
2012: 53.6
2013: 26.5
2014: 13.0
2015: 6.9
2016: 3.0
2017: 1.6
2018: 0.9
2019: 0.4

Total: $356.0 billion

That comes out to ~.9% of GDP for the first two years.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 28, 2009, 01:45:39 PM
The actual spending part:

2009: 29.0
2010: 115.8
2011: 105.5
2012: 53.6
2013: 26.5
2014: 13.0
2015: 6.9
2016: 3.0
2017: 1.6
2018: 0.9
2019: 0.4

Total: $356.0 billion

That comes out to ~.9% of GDP for the first two years.
I don't think you understand what the point of the stimulus bill is if you think all the other money other than that is wasted. lawblob worded if very well here:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=14550489&postcount=5910
Quote
Doesn't that depend on a definitional understanding of "stimulus?" Many economists are now saying we will have increasing unemployment until possibly 2011. In that sense, it is unrealistic to think that all Federal money directed at jump-starting the economy literally has to be spent on immediately realized projects. There are only so many people you can manufacture jobs for, and there is only so much good that tax cuts will do. If we are entering a massive, multi-year recession, some of the money will inevitably need to be put into projects that take years to return via increased economic output.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on January 28, 2009, 01:48:12 PM
Quote
The strawmen are strong in this thread.

dude.  you cited a wsj editorial.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mr. Gundam on January 28, 2009, 01:58:35 PM
man was the WSJ always like this or have they just gone coco for coocoo puffs since murdoch happened?
They've always had conservative columnists, but its only been lately they've had brazenly stupid conservative columnists.
Because, you know, there certainly won't be an unemployment benefits rush this year.  And really, everyone knows that food stamp enrollment and medicaid serve no purpose in what looks to be a giant recession, right?  Right?

So the WSJ is pissed off that the bill is preparing for inevitable things?  Republicans would rather have unemployment flopza first and then have the government move incredibly slowly for a month to fix it, maybe?
I'm convinced that there's a core Republican belief that its okay to let people starve to death as long as they're poor. 

Well, it's their choice. They had all the same opportunities the rest of us had... wait a second...

The above comment is the favorite response of my conservative friends.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on January 28, 2009, 02:20:34 PM
Lawblob is merely regurgitating Krugman's argument from yesterday. While it does have some merit, it fails to address the near term. Watch Roubini's interview on the previous page. Six million jobs could be lost this year. There's been over 100k job cuts announced this week alone. If the whole point of the bill is to stimulate the economy as soon as possible, why is only 40% of the money spent in the first two years?

I don't think its going to help much at all no matter what they do. There's just too much momentum to stop it (much less stimulate). I am really just looking at it from a political point of view. Seems as if you and the others at ObamaGAF should be screaming bloody murder that its not doing more. The votes are there. Presumably the DEMs think it will work. Obama did say government is the only thing that can get us out of the mess. So, what's wrong with more of it? Why not double the spending? Surely doubling what works would only work twice as good. Put their money (or in this case our grandkids money) where their mouth is. That's all I'm saying.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on January 28, 2009, 02:22:58 PM
I would bet my life savings that the Republicans I know give/do (you know .. donate time) more for poor people in one year than you guys have in your entire lifetimes.

But that's cool .. stick to your silly stereotypes.

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on January 28, 2009, 02:32:23 PM
Quote
President Obama will host a cocktail reception for Congressional leaders tonight at the White House, the New York Times reports.

"The bipartisan affair is set to come shortly after the House considers the president's economic stimulus bill. The roll call vote could make for some interesting conversation, particularly if the bulk of Republicans oppose the proposal as planned."
http://politicalwire.com/

huh?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on January 28, 2009, 02:38:13 PM
Also, I'll go on record as saying this thing's been too rushed and that I question the impact it will have.  The only reason to rush such a bill would be because it is needed immediately, and since the bill spends so many resources on the future, it probably didn't need to be rushed.  They could have split this up into two packages, which probably would have helped it seem more promising.  They could have spent a half year putting together a decent package for the next two years, and focused the brain power spent on this over the past two months on some sort of immediate stimulus. 

I just question such immediate action when it appears so scattershot.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on January 28, 2009, 02:46:09 PM
Also, I'll go on record as saying this thing's been too rushed and that I question the impact it will have.  The only reason to rush such a bill would be because it is needed immediately, and since the bill spends so many resources on the future, it probably didn't need to be rushed.  They could have split this up into two packages, which probably would have helped it seem more promising.  They could have spent a half year putting together a decent package for the next two years, and focused the brain power spent on this over the past two months on some sort of immediate stimulus. 

I just question such immediate action when it appears so scattershot.

Don't worry.  This won't be the last stimulus bill that gets passed.

Well, this gets into something of a semantic issue I was thinking of earlier.  By labeling this as THE stimulus package, opposing pundits 3 months from now will be saying "We already had that stimulus package a few months back and now we need another?  LOL DEMOCRATS."

They really should have been more careful in labeling this.  Especially since there are multiple things in the package that can easily be pointed at and questioned about their value in economic stimulus.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on January 28, 2009, 02:47:37 PM
Quote
Also, I'll go on record as saying this thing's been too rushed and that I question the impact it will have.

I agree with this completely. It reminds me of the great rush that was put on the bank bailout money, where it turned out that a little bit more prudence and debate could have made for a better bill and better use of that money.


I think Obama is doing a good job, but this 2006 Democratic House of Reps is a disaster.


 
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on January 28, 2009, 03:04:31 PM
Quote
Watch Roubini's interview on the previous page.

Roubini thinks we're fucked through 2009 no matter what happens.  I guess the purpose of the stimulus is more to try and ensure the recession doesn't last through 2010 and '11.

I don't quite understand the "the food is terrible and the portions are too small" Republican objections though.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on January 28, 2009, 03:07:23 PM
I'll second the notion that Obama is doing a good job. At least he is actually willing to listen to the other side.

Not sure if there will actually be a second "stimulus", but there's gonna be a ton more TARP-like bills. Keep in mind that there's ~$1.8 trillion in toxic assets remaining on bank balance sheets. The credit card companies are saying they expect to see write-offs peak at 13%. That equates to something like $1 trillion in losses. And there's the second wave of the subprime mortgages on the horizon (not sure if they figure into the previously mentioned toxic assets).

I'm sure I'm missing some more. But, add all that to the trillion dollar deficits they expect over the next several years, the increase in carrying costs, and the exponential increase in entitlement costs and you have to start questioning the solvency of the United States.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: dammitmattt on January 28, 2009, 03:14:08 PM
Doing nothing is often preferable to doing something poorly.  There is zero doubt in my mind that Obama has good intentions, but this is just throwing good money after bad, just like the recent bailouts.  I just hate the idea of throwing hundreds of darts at a board, hoping something will stick while trying to distract the people from what's actually going on.

I'll second the notion that Obama is doing a good job. At least he is actually willing to listen to the other side.

Not sure if there will actually be a second "stimulus", but there's gonna be a ton more TARP-like bills. Keep in mind that there's ~$1.8 trillion in toxic assets remaining on bank balance sheets. The credit card companies are saying they expect to see write-offs peak at 13%. That equates to something like $1 trillion in losses. And there's the second wave of the subprime mortgages on the horizon (not sure if they figure into the previously mentioned toxic assets).

I'm sure I'm missing some more. But, add all that to the trillion dollar deficits they expect over the next several years, the increase in carrying costs, and the exponential increase in entitlement costs and you have to start questioning the solvency of the United States.

The crushing debt will one day be the end of our country and our government in its current state.  It probably won't happen in our lifetimes, but it HAS to happen one day unless we get that under control.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on January 28, 2009, 03:15:18 PM
The house REPs are currently talking about their alternative plan saying it'll create 6.2 million jobs over the next two years.  :lol
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on January 28, 2009, 03:25:18 PM
man was the WSJ always like this or have they just gone coco for coocoo puffs since murdoch happened?

The WSJ has good business/economic reporting but their editorial page has always been insane.

Takes someone as dumb as sd to take them seriously, which is unfortunately a pretty big market.  I give him a week before he starts c/ping urls from renewamerica.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 28, 2009, 03:26:20 PM
man was the WSJ always like this or have they just gone coco for coocoo puffs since murdoch happened?

Takes someone as dumb as sd to take them seriously, which is unfortunately a pretty big market.  I give him a week before he starts c/ping urls from renewamerica.
And PD. He posted the article on gaf and talked about much it made him dislike the stimulus bill now lol
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on January 28, 2009, 03:27:31 PM
Quote from: Cheebs
Hey dude can I get on your good side?

No.  You're still dumb.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 28, 2009, 03:31:06 PM
 :lol I actually was pretty pissed PD posted that and started criticizing the bill cause he read that though. PD that article was a joke, don't buy what you read in it. ugh. I have my doubts it will save the economy but the bill needs to be passed none the less.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: dammitmattt on January 28, 2009, 03:35:39 PM
:lol I actually was pretty pissed PD posted that and started criticizing the bill cause he read that though. PD that article was a joke, don't buy what you read in it. ugh. I have my doubts it will save the economy but the bill needs to be passed none the less.

Why does it "need" to be passed?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on January 28, 2009, 03:35:45 PM
Cheebs is at least smart enough to land a lucrative gig as a popular newspaper columnist (http://www.theonion.com/content/columnists/view/harvey), though his political columns seem to have been lost in a site reorg or something.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eric P on January 28, 2009, 03:37:09 PM
man was the WSJ always like this or have they just gone coco for coocoo puffs since murdoch happened?

The WSJ has good business/economic reporting but their editorial page has always been insane.

Takes someone as dumb as sd to take them seriously, which is unfortunately a pretty big market.  I give him a week before he starts c/ping urls from renewamerica.

i'm sorry i get all of my economic news from indymedia and prisonplanet
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on January 28, 2009, 03:43:40 PM
:lol I actually was pretty pissed PD posted that and started criticizing the bill cause he read that though. PD that article was a joke, don't buy what you read in it. ugh. I have my doubts it will save the economy but the bill needs to be passed none the less.

I didn't post it for the opinion in it, moreso for the list of questionable inclusions in the bill. It's full of junk, yea. I'm just curious whether the actual stimulating portions are going to work. Long term it seems like a good idea to me. I don't know much about shit BUT I do know investing in infrastructure is going to save money and can create jobs. But I'm wondering about the more immediate relief stuff
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on January 28, 2009, 03:50:22 PM
To me, the three greatest problems we face are: 1) toxic debt 2) consumer fear/paralysis 3) frozen credit.

I haven't really seen any meat and potatos on this bill that would address these problems. All I have seen are these little pet projects that the Pub's are complaining about.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on January 28, 2009, 03:58:22 PM
Unemployment isn't anywhere in there?  Rilly?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on January 28, 2009, 04:10:40 PM
All I see is bitching about the source. Anyone has any counterpoints from the usual suspects then post them. Most of us here are all ears.

And what's Renew America?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 28, 2009, 06:16:40 PM
The house officially passed the stimulus bill.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on January 28, 2009, 06:18:44 PM
What was the vote? I can't find it on the news sites...
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on January 28, 2009, 06:20:13 PM
Doesn't look like the final tally is out yet.  I have a feeling it will be. . .predictable.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 28, 2009, 06:22:22 PM
It is done. 244 to 188 or something. No republican backing I believe.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on January 28, 2009, 06:22:56 PM
CSPAN is saying no REPs voted for it.  :)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on January 28, 2009, 06:26:01 PM
palin 2012 confirmed
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 28, 2009, 06:31:50 PM
I fucking hope the economy rebounds, even just a little by 2012 just so Republicans will look even more foolish than they did today.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: demi on January 28, 2009, 06:35:55 PM
HOPE CHANGE
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: AdmiralViscen on January 28, 2009, 06:37:35 PM
I fucking hope the economy rebounds, even just a little by 2012 just so Republicans will look even more foolish than they did today.

I hope it rebounds a lot so that people can have jobs
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: brawndolicious on January 28, 2009, 06:41:35 PM
I fucking hope the economy rebounds, even just a little by 2012 just so Republicans will look even more foolish than they did today.
This reminds me of how all the repubs wanted WMD's.

Only now, there's no viable "rational" party left to fall back on.  I'm sure there'll be a lot of problems with this bill in whatever form it gets passed but Obama will get away from it clean.  The reason he's not on suicide watch after Nov.4 is that he knows how to spin a story.  Congress will probably lose a lot of democrats in 2012 though.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 28, 2009, 06:45:34 PM
I fucking hope the economy rebounds, even just a little by 2012 just so Republicans will look even more foolish than they did today.
This reminds me of how all the repubs wanted WMD's.

Wanting for a country to have a stockpile of weapons is a bit different than wanting an economy to prosper and people to get jobs, even with political motivation for both.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 28, 2009, 06:45:38 PM
Yeah, Cheebs, I'm a little disturbed at your positioning with this.  I'm beginning to think you approach these issues in a strictly political light.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 28, 2009, 06:49:49 PM
You act like I don't care about the economy itself. I want it for both reasons. I graduate college soon and am fucking scared about the job market I will be entering, of course I want the economy to do well for it's own sake and my own personal job getting reasons.  But I can't also want to see Republicans temper tantrum backfire?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on January 28, 2009, 06:50:43 PM
Dude I thought you were joining an accounting firm, you have nothing to worry about. Plus your dad is opening doors for you? smh
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: AdmiralViscen on January 28, 2009, 06:51:42 PM
I'm not confident it's going to backfire lol

Just as important as the actual cash infusion is the idea that this stimulus package will inspire confidence among consumers in this country. I don't think it's such a great thing for the success of the package if this is perceived as rushed and one-sided.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 28, 2009, 06:53:43 PM
Dude I thought you were joining an accounting firm, you have nothing to worry about. Plus your dad is opening doors for you? smh
My major is both IT and Accounting and I have quickly grown to hate accounting over the past year. My dad ain't opening doors. His company he is a CIO at is doing pretty shitty.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on January 28, 2009, 06:56:08 PM
IT? Ah didn't know that. Accounting isn't kicking my ass but it's boring me to sleep; I feel like switching, but at the same time if I finish/get my degree I'll have a job out the gate. Then I can do what I want to do (mba, maybe law school)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 28, 2009, 06:58:33 PM
IT? Ah didn't know that. Accounting isn't kicking my ass but it's boring me to sleep; I feel like switching, but at the same time if I finish/get my degree I'll have a job out the gate. Then I can do what I want to do (mba, maybe law school)
Yeah. AIS the Accounting/Information Systems major. How many accounting classes have you taken? All you seem to take is endless African American studies classes .
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on January 28, 2009, 07:00:16 PM
I took like three! I'd go crazy if all I did was take business classes

I've taken like 6-7 accounting class. I only need a few more but jeez...
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 28, 2009, 07:02:57 PM
I took like three! I'd go crazy if all I did was take business classes

I've taken like 6-7 accounting class. I only need a few more but jeez...
Why the hell would you take 3 african american studies classes. It isn't even a requirement!  :lol You should have taken some politics classes.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 28, 2009, 07:04:00 PM
I'm pretty scared shitless for my future.  My interests and goals in terms of careers all end up in some pretty shitty money makers unless I get lucky.  English major...where does that lead?  Teaching?  I don't know, I can't see myself really doing anything with it (editor?  critic?  meh).  When I switch to Music Business at Belmont...well, it's a shrinking industry.  I think my best bet is Music Business with an emphasis on Production with a minor in New Media Journalism, so at least by the time I graduate I can have some sort of idea of what direction I want to go in terms of grad school/interning.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on January 28, 2009, 07:05:41 PM
There's nothing in the bill that should give anyone confidence it will help.

Its crap any way you look at it. But, I suspect we'll have a bit of a run in the markets for a few months. Doesn't change the fundamentals.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: bud on January 28, 2009, 07:05:58 PM
no offence, man, but the classes you're taking are good for nothing.

i was honestly laughing when you posted what classes you were taking. smh
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 28, 2009, 07:08:53 PM
I am in my last year right now, I honestly don't even want to think about it. At least I am in a business major and accounting and IT are stable type of jobs. But still.  :-\


To get back on track though, what do the GOP think they'll gain from this? Do they honestly think the economy will continue to fall all the way until Obama's re-election? Hell, if that happens we'll officially be in a depression. No way it will go on that long. And the very second the slightest uptick begins to happen you know Obama and his political team will swoop on in and begin to fairly or unfairly credit this bill till it is hammered home. I can't see how this will work out, there is no way the economy will fall for another 4 years.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on January 28, 2009, 07:08:59 PM
You're spending thousands of dollars on music business? smh, I bet most music industry agents have no education in that field.

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 28, 2009, 07:09:49 PM
no offence, man, but the classes you're taking are good for nothing.

i was honestly laughing when you posted what classes you were taking. smh

Mine?  Yeah, I know.  But I'm taking those for a reason.  I actually ended up dropping that music course for something in my major, a Literature class.

I'm taking such broad, diversity-like credits because they're the easiest to transfer to the school I want without having to be a second-year freshman.  If I were making insane headway into my English major, none of them would transfer over since I'm switching to a different major.

This also isn't factoring the credit I'll get with my AP scores, which for some reason didn't get sent to my current school (Kent) but found their way to Belmont.

Quote
You're spending thousands of dollars on music business? smh, I bet most music industry agents have no education in that field.

This is my main concern.  If I get down there and feel as if I could be getting that sort of education...well, myself, I would drop that.  But luckily, I've read so many great things about Belmont's music program in terms of post-grad opportunities that I feel regardless, I'll be happy with the outcome.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: brawndolicious on January 28, 2009, 07:12:15 PM
Wanting for a country to have a stockpile of weapons is a bit different than wanting an economy to prosper and people to get jobs, even with political motivation for both.
If the repubs were successful in blocking this, then there could be more time spent planning it through and cutting out the pork but it would still allow most of the politicians to save face.  If something this controversial gets passed and it doesn't have a large tangible effect in 4 years, or even 2 years, then the democratic congress is screwed.  We realistically might start to come out of the recession by the next presidential primaries.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on January 28, 2009, 07:16:41 PM
http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/alerts/567 (http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/alerts/567)

wtf @ comments?  I used to read this site.  when did it become Free Republic Blue Version?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 28, 2009, 07:18:36 PM
Hahaha ending the fillibuster.  :lol That'd be political suicide to try to do.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on January 28, 2009, 07:25:21 PM
The risk isn't that it will continue to fall (which it will). Its that when it bottoms out it remains flat.

Credit crisises usually take 3-5 years to fully shake out. Just look at all the money being thrown around. Its delusional to think more debt and leverage will fix this problem. There is no free lunch. We'll pay for it some way or another in the form of economically stagnating things like inflation and/or much higher taxes.

And that's completely ignoring the demographic changes that are and will occur for years to come.

My point is that really nothing can be done to "fix" this. They can maybe mitigate some of the bad stuff. But, that risks screwing things up (ie tons more debt). There's just too much stacked against us to warrant belief in a quick turn around or even in the medium term. I wouldn't be surprised if we're into the 2020s before we some good growth again. Hope I'm wrong.  
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: y2kev on January 28, 2009, 07:49:27 PM
English majors go anywhere they want. I know a friend who was an English major and joined the wall street blitz a few years ago. But now the recruiters are being stingy. Still, you can do a lot. As long as you vary your courseload I guess.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: CajoleJuice on January 28, 2009, 08:18:15 PM
English majors go anywhere they want. I know a friend who was an English major and joined the wall street blitz a few years ago. But now the recruiters are being stingy. Still, you can do a lot. As long as you vary your courseload I guess.

Intelligent English majors who graduate from good schools.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Oblivion on January 28, 2009, 08:18:49 PM
You would think an English degree would be pretty worthless, but I know quite a few people that got some pretty cool jobs with one.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: y2kev on January 28, 2009, 08:24:21 PM
Majors are stupid. Unless you're going to be something highly technical (engineering) something explicitly preprofessional (premed), university should just be used to cultivate critical thinking anyway.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: chronovore on January 28, 2009, 08:57:39 PM
man was the WSJ always like this or have they just gone coco for coocoo puffs since murdoch happened?

Fill me in -- what's this about Rupert?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eric P on January 28, 2009, 09:03:56 PM
man was the WSJ always like this or have they just gone coco for coocoo puffs since murdoch happened?

Fill me in -- what's this about Rupert?

he bought the WSJ
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on January 28, 2009, 10:06:26 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-r_-QRKyu6g
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eric P on January 28, 2009, 10:24:32 PM
oh my
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: The Fake Shemp on January 28, 2009, 10:26:33 PM
good jon kucinich
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 28, 2009, 11:12:21 PM
So the Republicans are basically a joke party at this point.

Kucinich is a democrat
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 28, 2009, 11:31:13 PM
Obama has been having lengthy meetings with Pres. Carter about the mid-east. Pretty awesome, previous presidents including Clinton shunned Carter.

Quote
Former President Jimmy Carter has long been kept on the margins of his party both for the bad memories of his 1980 defeat, and for his increasingly sharp attacks on Israel's occupation of the Palestinian territories and calls to open talks with Hamas.

Carter today lavished praise on President Obama's choice of Middle East envoy in an interview with CNN's Wolf Blitzer, and said he'd talked at length with Obama earlier this month about the Middle East, though he gave no indication Obama agreed with his view of the region.


Obama " has taken a strong role already in pursuing peace in the Middle East. And he's -- and he's chosen George Mitchell, the best American alive to undertake this responsibility, to be his representative in -- his envoy to the Mideast. That's a major change," Carter said.

"I have total confidence in him," Carter said of Mitchell.

"What about Hillary Clinton, the secretary of state?" Blitzer asked.

"I think she'll comply with the policies established by the president. As will George Mitchell," Carter replied.

Carter also said he "spent a long time with President Obama" the evening before the five living presidents met at the White House January 7.

As Rosalynn Carter and David Axelrod took notes, they talked policy, he said.


"I would say he was most interested in the Middle East because I had been to that region twice in the previous year and had met with some people that others usually don’t meet with as you probably know, Carter said.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0109/Carter_praises_Mitchell_pick_.html?showall
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: patrickula on January 28, 2009, 11:38:06 PM
:bow Kucinich
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 28, 2009, 11:46:01 PM
lol poligaf
Quote
Did anyone think of a possible Supersupermajority in the senate? Imagine this.

2010 - Economy is significantly better, Obama and Democrats thanked for saving it by the public, 5 senate seats gained.

2012 - Economy is much better, Al Queda is devastated thanks to effective operations in Afghanistan, overall Obama is very popular. Obama wins reelection by a Reagan 1984 landslide thanks to massive popularity. Helping this is the weak Republican ticket of Sarah Palin & Newt Gingrich. 7 senate seats gained thanks to Obama coattails.

2014 - Country still going strong. 3 senate seats gained.

2016 - Hillary loses nomination to Evan Bayh, who later picks her as VP. Coming off of the strong popularity of the Obama presidency, the Bayh/Clinton ticket wins in a 430-100 landslide. 4 senate seats gained.

That would be a 78 seat Democratic majority  incredibly unlikely but fun to think about.

But what if then...

2018 - Thanks to a recession, no campaign promises fulfilled and an unpopular war over in Africa, the midterms are a slaughter, with 10 senate seats lost.
2020 - President Bayh is incredibly unpopular thanks to a 2019 sex scandal involving on him cheating with a 19 year old intern. Although Kathleen Sebelius makes a very strong primary challenge, Bayh kept the nomination. With the war still active, a botched handling of the recent San Francisco earthquake and the divorce of President Bayh, the Democrats due horribly, with 13 senate seats lost, and the Presidency being lost as well to a charismatic young hispanic who was governor of Texas...

Almost entirely erasing the majority
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: The Fake Shemp on January 28, 2009, 11:47:54 PM
Be honest - you wrote that, didn't you, Cheebs?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on January 29, 2009, 12:11:18 AM
I wonder what Kucinich thinks about the Fed's plan to buy 10-year treasuries?
Title: Ad hominem's got a bad name
Post by: Mandark on January 29, 2009, 12:12:54 AM
All I see is bitching about the source. Anyone has any counterpoints from the usual suspects then post them. Most of us here are all ears.

And what's Renew America?

Cause the source is the WSJ editorial page (which has a long history history of being intellectually frivolous and safely ignorable) c/ped by you (and yer dumb).

At least the crazy person on the Metro who thinks the government's building a giant space laser let me roll my eyes and didn't bitch that I wasn't engaging his ideas.



edit:  Right now I've got an editorial by Larry Lindsay at the WSJ loaded on my page.  A sidebar helpfully links to other top pieces in their opinion pages today.

"Obama Made a Rash Decision on Gitmo" by John Yoo

"The Obama White House May Be a Crowded Mess" by Karl Rove

"My Bipartisan Stimulus" by Rush Limbaugh
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on January 29, 2009, 12:24:38 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-r_-QRKyu6g

That's what got Lincoln and JFK killed smh
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on January 29, 2009, 12:28:11 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-r_-QRKyu6g

That's what got Lincoln and JFK killed smh

Mel Gibson tried to warn him, but it was too late for Kooch.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on January 29, 2009, 06:46:20 AM
What do those three editorials by obviously biased people have to do with an editorial by the paper itself using hard numbers from the bill? Point out where its wrong. I already stated I'm open to other interpretations.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Tauntaun on January 29, 2009, 09:57:53 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-r_-QRKyu6g

:bow  :bow
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on January 29, 2009, 12:55:51 PM
What do those three editorials by obviously biased people have to do with an editorial by the paper itself using hard numbers from the bill? Point out where its wrong. I already stated I'm open to other interpretations.

Did you ignore my (heavily flavored by sarcasm) posts?  Most of the things cited in that particular article can be easily related to the economic crisis, minus the renovations to the Smithsonian.  Over the past two days, I've seen several articles that have pointed out legitimate issues with the bill, but again, the article you posted doesn't really point anything especially audacious out.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on January 29, 2009, 03:14:16 PM
What do those three editorials by obviously biased people have to do with an editorial by the paper itself using hard numbers from the bill? Point out where its wrong. I already stated I'm open to other interpretations.

Except it's not simply pointing out the universally understood and agreed-upon significance of those numbers.  It's making a series of arguments, some of which are transparently horseshit.

1)  Corporate tax cuts count as stimulus but personal tax cuts don't.

2)  Mass transit doesn't count because it doesn't turn a profit.  Highways do count, even when they bring no revenue.

3)  Buying cars for the federal government is bad because... well, they already spend like a totally big number on it!  With no context of what they're used for, the state of the fleet, etc.

4)  Electric grid funds count.  Making buildings energy-efficient doesn't.

5)  Medicare is something for "people who do nothing".  Aside from the tastelessness in assailing "people who do nothing" in an economy like this, it's factually wrong.  The money goes pretty directly to health care professionals and pharmaceutical companies who are providing a service.

6)  Education apparently provides no returns on investment!  This was maybe my favorite bit.  It's plausible as long as you ignore the common school movement, the high school movement, the GI Bill, just about every international data point (y halo thar Azn tigerz!), and common sense.



But the biggest thing is the general approach.  The author uses absolutely no arguments from economics.  He doesn't explain or even try to contradict the reasoning behind the bill.  No mention of "demand", "business cycle", "employment", Keynes or Friedman or any of that.

He (and let's not get so PC to think the WSJ would have a woman writing an unsigned editorial) never actually makes a case that this will hurt the economy.  He just lists things that money is being spent on and gets outraged, assuming that the reader will share his outrage because all right-thinking people naturally hate teachers unions, tree-huggers, and the dirty poors.




PS Don't pat yourself on the back for "I'm open to other viewpoints."  Falling completely for unmitigated bullshit and letting yourself get talked back to sanity by people willing to do the thinking is not a winning personality trait.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Brehvolution on January 29, 2009, 04:03:29 PM
:bow
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: The Fake Shemp on January 29, 2009, 04:22:34 PM
Can I pat myself on the back if I'm open to all viewpoints?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on January 29, 2009, 04:30:30 PM
Somebody I work with noticed that the amount we have spent on the bailout and stimulus bill is equal to the entire budget in 1995. :S

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Oblivion on January 29, 2009, 04:44:54 PM
Quick question, guys. At least for those living in Cali, is it looking likely that financial aid for us college students is gonna be drastically reduced? What's the word on the internets?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: brawndolicious on January 29, 2009, 06:59:17 PM
Quick question, guys. At least for those living in Cali, is it looking likely that financial aid for us college students is gonna be drastically reduced? What's the word on the internets?
well I know that most schools are coping with their budget cuts by accepting less students this fall.  I don't know what they plan to do to financial aid though.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: MyNameIsMethodis on January 29, 2009, 07:01:05 PM
Not my president.

He just took out a great american hero in Blagojevich. How am I supposed to trust this corrput president? Next thing you know is he'll make marijuana illegal and free health care to all.

 :usacry
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: AdmiralViscen on January 29, 2009, 10:21:00 PM
SD obliterated
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 29, 2009, 10:50:01 PM
Apparently Obama is in serious talks to get Republican Senator Judd Gregg to be his new commerce secretary. A senator who is extremely vulnerable in 2010. It's a brilliant political move, the gov. of NH is Democrat. The move would grant Obama the 60 vote filibuster proof senate he needs. Gregg is saying he is "not at liberty to discuss" any possible appointment, which is far from no. Republicans got to be freaking out right about now, if Gregg takes it then their one real ability they had in a pure Democratic government would be gone.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0109/18193.html
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Rman on January 29, 2009, 10:52:59 PM
The GOP bigwigs have probably been feverishly trying to contact the Senator to keep his seat.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on January 29, 2009, 11:38:33 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od8bcCvX3jU
Interesting, if only to see what Obama would look like with a high top fade

Seems like a few the tin foil people are still struggling to label Obama.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on January 29, 2009, 11:39:57 PM
Can I pat myself on the back if I'm open to all viewpoints?

It's actually quite a fun pastime.  In fact, I'll indulge myself:

I think it's pretty well established that Dick Cheney is a shapeshifting alien lizard (http://www.truthcontrol.com/node/reptilians), but if someone has convincing evidence, I'm willing to consider other extraterrestrial species.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: The Fake Shemp on January 30, 2009, 12:16:11 AM
Damn Reptilians!
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: MyNameIsMethodis on January 30, 2009, 12:18:47 AM
Only in New Hampshire baby.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on January 30, 2009, 01:07:55 AM
Lots of words and barely any point. The article showed the enormous wastes in the bill in the name of STIMULUS and that most of the waste is going to DEM constituencies - not that it would hurt the economy (wtf?). Virtually none of it is aimed directly at creating jobs in the short term. Almost all of the spending part could be siphoned off onto other bills. Want to debate more money going into education? That's fine. But, it doesn't belong in this stimulus bill. Want to debate more money going to Medicare and unemployment. Again, that's fine. But, it doesn't belong in this stimulus bill.

I mean, the spending on infrastructure in the bill is beyond pathetic. Send Nancy down here to Atlanta. I can give her enough ideas for improving the traffic that she could spend $150 billion easily. Tons of jobs ready to be had. We could emply them for a decade. But, apperently there were other more important backs that needed to be scratched.

We all know who will be proven right in two years anyway. Four million jobs created...LMFAO. Will y'all have a circle jerk for me then? 
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ferrarimanf355 on January 30, 2009, 01:18:34 AM
If that's the plan for a supermajority... so awesome. :hyper
Title: Traffic abatement counts. Education doesn't.
Post by: Mandark on January 30, 2009, 01:24:23 AM
Lots of words and barely any point. The article showed the enormous wastes in the bill in the name of STIMULUS and that most of the waste is going to DEM constituencies - not that it would hurt the economy (wtf?). Virtually none of it is aimed directly at creating jobs in the short term. Almost all of the spending part could be siphoned off onto other bills. Want to debate more money going into education? That's fine. But, it doesn't belong in this stimulus bill. Want to debate more money going to Medicare and unemployment. Again, that's fine. But, it doesn't belong in this stimulus bill.

How is paying people to build schools and teach students not aimed at creating jobs?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on January 30, 2009, 01:33:23 AM
that shit is woman's work.  and everyone knows women don't have real jobs, by definition.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on January 30, 2009, 01:52:13 AM
that shit is woman's work.  and everyone knows women don't have real jobs, by definition.

And females are more likely to vote Democrat than Republican.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on January 30, 2009, 01:59:07 AM
that shit is woman's work.  and everyone knows women don't have real jobs, by definition.

Especially not Nancy Pelosi.  She should come down to Atlanta where sd will learn her a thing or two, hur hur hur.

Speaking of sd, looks like I bruised his feelings and he might not be coming back here in a while.  Crying about being unpopular and logging out immediately after posting isn't a good sign.

Sorry buddy, but you were the one who asked for an actual response!  But in case you're still lurking around...

Why should education be off limits in a stimulus bill, but not road-building?  They both require hiring people.  Both are typically funded through their own separate bills.  What's the distinction?  What's your logic?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on January 30, 2009, 02:03:24 AM

Why should education be off limits in a stimulus bill, but not road-building?  They both require hiring people.  Both are typically funded through their own separate bills.  What's the distinction?  What's your logic?

Because Bush cut the education budget several times, right?  Or at least proposed it.  I forget. 
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on January 30, 2009, 02:06:00 AM
jeez Mandark, slow down son. I'm sure SD is just taking a break
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on January 30, 2009, 02:07:40 AM
Alternately, the better educated a person is, the more likely they are to vote democrat.

(http://people-press.org/reports/images/242-9.gif)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on January 30, 2009, 02:10:56 AM
jeez Mandark, slow down son. I'm sure SD is just taking a break

You don't understand, PD.  I've got to drive away as many posters from this forum as possible by the end of next month (starting with Manabyte) if I want to inherit Willco's fortune.

It's like Brewster's Millions, but with a Jewish cast.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on January 30, 2009, 02:14:32 AM
Have you compiled your Nixon-esque enemies list?  Do you know who the next target will be?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on January 30, 2009, 02:28:56 AM
See, I like to think of it as an optimistic, New Year's resolution kinda to-do list, rather than a paranoid, jowly Nixon list.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm gonna take credit for Malek if he ever has the self-discipline to stay away, then probably Green Shinobi or etiolate.  They seem like feasible targets, unlike Cheebs who blithely shrugs off all my abuse.

Nothing personal dodes!
[close]
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on January 30, 2009, 02:41:37 AM
Worth noting (I think I mentioned this earlier in this thread, but it may have been elsewhere), my issue with the stimulus bill is sort of parallel to sd's latest response.  I agree with a lot of the things in the bill, but I don't think this should have been labeled as the "stimulus package."  SD thinks the problem is that the things this bill addresses aren't particularly relevant with stimulus (which I don't agree with that much), and I think it's just been given a lousy name.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on January 30, 2009, 03:10:19 AM
Emergency measures always run the risk of being Trojan horses for longer-term agendas, because the scale and urgency make opposition that much harder.  See how the GOP used the Department of Homeland Security re-org for unionbusting, or how the Bush admin argued that the Iraq war authorization also applied to domestic spying.

I think this bill is fairly good about that, though.  That's mostly my judgment from reading the summary, but partly because some Democrats are complaining (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/27/AR2009012703655.html) that it doesn't achieve long-term goals like a new rail infrastructure.

The fact is there's some overlap in what makes for good fiscal stimulus and what makes liberals feel warm and fuzzy inside.

Food stamps and Medicare funds are easy to disburse quickly, are immediately spent back into the economy, and go towards things with real value.  Putting aside the evil redistributionist part, it makes them more effective than tax rebates (which mostly get saved) and most long-term building projects (which couldn't even get started for a year or two).

A lot of people have absorbed the idea that stimulus should take the place of big, tangible works projects.  Maybe it's all the New Deal imagery.  But stimulus is basically about pouring money into the economy, in a way where it will keep flowing rather than congeal.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on January 30, 2009, 03:21:30 AM
A tangent, but since it's related to the economic collapse, I think it will fit in here:

Because of all the doom and gloom (actual doom and gloom, mind you), people have not been spending money out in the market, and a significant portion of that money not going into the market is likely going into savings accounts (or to pay off debt).  This kind of illustrates a critical flaw of the sort of economy the US and much of the world has fostered.  If there is collective good and wise group behavior (saving money/managing money responsibly), there is collective group punishment via the market disturbances that will happen as a result of unspent cash.  US-like economies thrive off of bad, unwise behavior.  That is completely irrational, and not only does it make me wonder if this ship is worth saving, but if it can be saved at all.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on January 30, 2009, 07:44:14 AM
A tangent, but since it's related to the economic collapse, I think it will fit in here:

Because of all the doom and gloom (actual doom and gloom, mind you), people have not been spending money out in the market, and a significant portion of that money not going into the market is likely going into savings accounts (or to pay off debt).  This kind of illustrates a critical flaw of the sort of economy the US and much of the world has fostered.  If there is collective good and wise group behavior (saving money/managing money responsibly), there is collective group punishment via the market disturbances that will happen as a result of unspent cash.  US-like economies thrive off of bad, unwise behavior.  That is completely irrational, and not only does it make me wonder if this ship is worth saving, but if it can be saved at all.

Once the economy gets moving and credit markets begin to thaw, people will go back to making stupid decisions as always.  Obama is the magic negro that will get rid of the bad economy.  Once he does that or puts it in motion, people will forget all about his contributions, claim to be pissed off about his deep rooted connection with Ayers and put in a God fearin' Republican.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 30, 2009, 08:28:35 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od8bcCvX3jU
Interesting, if only to see what Obama would look like with a high top fade

Seems like a few the tin foil people are still struggling to label Obama.


Why was stuff about Obama's meeting with Hillary about her pulling out of the primary included in this?  :lol
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on January 30, 2009, 08:42:36 AM
The auto industry is proposing that the government give a 4500 dollar tax credit for people buying new cars (as long as the new cars have a better mpg than your previous).

Self-serving obviously, but not a terrible idea.

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on January 30, 2009, 10:19:14 AM
Alright, what are the best ways to measure if this money actually filters down into job creation? Comparing the next two year averages to the average number of new teacher hires and schools built over the last 3-5 years? Surely those stats are available somewhere. You tell me.

Mock me all you want in regard to road projects. Atlanta is choking on its own growth. There are a ton of things they could do here in just one city that would create jobs and would be good investments for future growth. I'm not at all adverse to mass transit. I use it once a week. Its great. The Bay Area's mass transit systems kick ass. MARTA has bonds that extent into the 2040s and the state of GA projects a ~$200 billion transportation shortfall over the next 30 years or so. Perfect time to invest in transportation here. Again, just one city.

Anyway, GDP -3.8% annualized over the last quarter. Much better than the average expected drop of 5.4%. Seems to have been boosted by inventories. Guess that sets us up for a bigger drop this quarter.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on January 30, 2009, 10:51:20 AM
Maybe...I believe their Q3 revision is unchanged from the initial estimate though.

That car tax credit sounds awesome. My Mustang gets like 16 I think. I could pretty much buy any new car to qualify. Rates as a 1 on the EPA air pollution scale.  ;)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on January 30, 2009, 12:01:31 PM
The auto industry is proposing that the government give a 4500 dollar tax credit for people buying new cars (as long as the new cars have a better mpg than your previous).

Self-serving obviously, but not a terrible idea.


One that clearly wont be abused by anyone at all.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on January 30, 2009, 01:21:54 PM
(http://images.craigslist.org/3n43p23lcZZZZZZZZZ91u88f656e6bf721da7.jpg)

lawl
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: AdmiralViscen on January 30, 2009, 01:25:11 PM
I WILL REDUCE
THE RESALE VALUE
OF MY VEHICLE
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 30, 2009, 01:30:43 PM
(http://images.craigslist.org/3n43p23lcZZZZZZZZZ91u88f656e6bf721da7.jpg)

lawl

I saw a few of these during the campaign, and it just baffled the piss out of me.  "I'll keep the shitty life I had before, thanks."
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: MyNameIsMethodis on January 30, 2009, 01:31:21 PM
How is his life shitty?

Fucking distinguished mentally-challenged fellow.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on January 30, 2009, 01:32:59 PM
the car tax credit is unimaginably stupid. will it be used to buy american cars? probably not. on top of that, where would the unemployed or poor get the additional money to buy a new car ($4500 is less than half of even a shitty new car) -- or is this just for the still-employed middle-class, who can probably afford a new car sans credit, but are wisely abstaining? republicans are the dumbest motherfuckers out there.

START TAXING THE FUCK OUT OF THE RICH, AND START SPENDING THOSE TAXES ON JOB CREATION. NOW. 70%. BRING IT BACK.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on January 30, 2009, 01:33:57 PM
if your political beliefs can be expressed as a cute bumper sticker, you probably shouldn't be allowed to hold a political opinion.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Rman on January 30, 2009, 01:34:28 PM
LOL @ Keeping my freedom.  Do these guys know about the Patriot Act that was sponsored by the previous administration.  Also do they not know that the Stimulus package includes tax cuts for people most likely in that driver's tax bracket.

*sighs*
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 30, 2009, 01:35:27 PM
How is his life shitty?

Fucking distinguished mentally-challenged fellow.

u mad
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: The Fake Shemp on January 30, 2009, 01:35:36 PM
bu bu bu the rich will move to other countries with less taxes and create thar jobs thar!
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on January 30, 2009, 01:36:58 PM
LOL @ Keeping my freedom.  Do these guys know about the Patriot Act that was sponsored by the previous administration.  Also do they not know that the Stimulus package includes tax cuts for people most likely in that driver's tax bracket.

*sighs*

he has a nice truck, therefore he considers himself a better class of human being. logically, since rich people are also a better class of human being, he must be rich, and therefore, preznit b. hussein obama and his socialist cronies are out to get his money and his freedoms, whatever they are.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on January 30, 2009, 01:37:42 PM
bu bu bu the rich will move to other countries with less taxes and create thar jobs thar!

bububububu it's the socialists that are unpatriotic, not our free market masters :usacry
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: The Fake Shemp on January 30, 2009, 01:39:12 PM
You are dancing around the issue, sir!  All the rich fatcats will move to an unnamed country they create, with no taxes, and take all the jobs with them!  Who will pay your mortgage then, sir?!
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on January 30, 2009, 01:39:20 PM
So in 2012 when these people still have their guns, "freedom", and money (unless they're rich or are heavily invested in shit companies) what will they say?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on January 30, 2009, 01:40:43 PM
So in 2012 when these people still have their guns, "freedom", and money (unless they're rich or are heavily invested in shit companies) what will they say?

"if ah'm goin' down ah'm takin' you with me, mister batf!"
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 30, 2009, 01:40:52 PM
lower taxes, vote palin
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on January 30, 2009, 01:42:24 PM
the car tax credit is unimaginably stupid. will it be used to buy american cars? probably not. on top of that, where would the unemployed or poor get the additional money to buy a new car ($4500 is less than half of even a shitty new car) -- or is this just for the still-employed middle-class, who can probably afford a new car sans credit, but are wisely abstaining? republicans are the dumbest motherfuckers out there.

First, this was proposed by auto industry execs and more than likely to be backed by the unions. I would be surprised if Republicans would even support it. Especially considering how adament they were against the auto bailout.

Second, "buying American" cars means nothing in today's market. In some cases, a Toyota is more American than a Jeep.

Quote
START TAXING THE FUCK OUT OF THE RICH, AND START SPENDING THOSE TAXES ON JOB CREATION. NOW. 70%. BRING IT BACK.

Yes, look how well it worked for Jimmy Carter.



Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: AdmiralViscen on January 30, 2009, 01:44:07 PM
Cars from the Big 3 that are manufactured in Mexico or Canada still use 80-90% US-sourced parts and are designed and tested on American soil by American employees. Outside of a few cars like the Nissan Titan, Japanese vehicles that happen to be manufactured here are designed and tested in Japan, where all profits are funneled, and are 30-50% US-sourced parts tops.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: MyNameIsMethodis on January 30, 2009, 01:44:26 PM
So in 2012 when these people still have their guns, "freedom", and money (unless they're rich or are heavily invested in shit companies) what will they say?

Obama is going to get rid of guns, that's a certainty.

It's still "We the people" right?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on January 30, 2009, 01:47:12 PM
the same auto industry execs currently floundering in an ocean of massive yearly losses? the same unions who have grossly mismanaged themselves into total irrelevance?

so anyway i got this henhouse and these scrawny hairy guys with sharp teeth keep suggesting that the solution to my massive missing chicken problem is to give them some time on the perimeter
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on January 30, 2009, 01:47:55 PM
well obama IS creating a non-voluntary police force out of young folk
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: MyNameIsMethodis on January 30, 2009, 01:49:00 PM
The last thing we need, more pigs.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on January 30, 2009, 01:50:59 PM
Who needs manufacturing anyways? Let's have an entire economy based on landscaping, massage therapy and wiping the asses of the elderly.


You better inform Ya Boy Obama that unions are a waste. He seems to believe they are the backbone of the middle class.


Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on January 30, 2009, 01:56:07 PM
Quote from: ToxicAdam, friend of the wealthy
Quote
START TAXING THE FUCK OUT OF THE RICH, AND START SPENDING THOSE TAXES ON JOB CREATION. NOW. 70%. BRING IT BACK.

Yes, look how well it worked for Jimmy Carter.


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/22/opinion/22krugman.html?ref=opinion

enjoy! given that carter presided over better growth than reagan, and had to deal with the massive effect of stagflation in the 70's, well, LOL JIMMY CARTER doesn't even cut it as convenient republican cant these days.

are you rich, ta?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on January 30, 2009, 01:57:24 PM
Who needs manufacturing anyways? Let's have an entire economy based on landscaping, massage therapy and wiping the asses of the elderly.


You better inform Ya Boy Obama that unions are a waste. He seems to believe they are the backbone of the middle class.




what is it with posturing libertarians and their straw men?

i am all for a strong manufacturing base in the usa. i am also for strong unions rather than the neutered ones we have, who have failed in their essential mission. i am NOT for terrible "stimulus" ideas that make no common sense whatsoever, like "new car credits".
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on January 30, 2009, 02:01:04 PM
dp WAT
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Rman on January 30, 2009, 02:04:36 PM
Dudes like the ones who owns that truck have a long antagonistic view of government, forgetting that their food kept cheap by government subsidies, that the companies that make their trucks stay solvent due to government bailouts, that most the federal money that their states receives for stuff, like, say road repairs, comes from states that provide the most federal tax revenue--i.e. the godless, homo friendly, blue states.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on January 30, 2009, 02:35:17 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/22/opinion/22krugman.html?ref=opinion

enjoy! given that carter presided over better growth than reagan, and had to deal with the massive effect of stagflation in the 70's, well, LOL JIMMY CARTER doesn't even cut it as convenient republican cant these days.


Instead of lapping up all the soundbytes of Krugman, still fighting the battles of 1984, read a book that actually interviewed the people within his administration:

http://www.amazon.com/Jimmy-Carters-Economy-Hartwell-Business/dp/080782738X

In it, you will find that JC was always a few steps late in addressing problems that the country faced. You will also find that despite some positive broad numbers, that the actual rate of output per worker fell dramatically.

So, saying that the numbers of Carter were actually pretty good, would be like cherry picking some 2003-2007 numbers and saying that Bush was a great president.

Quote
are you rich, ta?

I live in Ohio, what do you think? No, not in a traditional sense. But I have 2 healthy children, a degree, and a house and two cars that are paid for. That's all I really care about.

My perspective is definitely skewed. I have lived in cities like Detroit, Toledo and Cleveland my whole life. Places that have been traditionally Democrat. Places that have went into the absolute shitter in my lifetime. My feedback loop has only been negative concerning the policies and outcomes of Democratically controlled areas. Yet, people still keep voting them in.

Quote
what is it with posturing libertarians and their straw men?

This is a great help to my Liberal Argument Bingo Card. I am just a "cognitive dissonance" and a bar graph away from calling Bingo.


Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 30, 2009, 03:10:54 PM
Looks like Michael Steele is going to be the new RNC chairman
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: demi on January 30, 2009, 03:18:46 PM
Toledo  :'(
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on January 30, 2009, 03:23:52 PM
Steele is just another McCain (2008) or GHWB (1988). Moderate Republicans that realize they have to become conservative if they want to move up the party heirarchy. Worthless.


edit: But looking at the available candidates, he was the best choice. I don't really agree with Republicans reaching out to black voters. It seems like a wasted effort. They instead should reach out to Hispanics and women voters. It would be a much easier task.


Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: y2kev on January 30, 2009, 03:55:39 PM
Plus Steele is just incredibly dishonest and intellectually disingenuous. My primary exposure to him is with his GOPAC garbage and his appearance on Bill Maher when he shit all over himself.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Beardo on January 30, 2009, 04:05:36 PM
ToxicAdam, You clearly have a job that means you are rich and your taxes need to be raised.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: AdmiralViscen on January 30, 2009, 04:08:59 PM
Plus Steele is just incredibly dishonest and intellectually disingenuous. My primary exposure to him is with his GOPAC garbage and his appearance on Bill Maher when he shit all over himself.

link plz
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on January 30, 2009, 04:09:34 PM
McCain is saying he doesn't see any REP votes for the stimulus bill in the senate.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on January 30, 2009, 04:10:24 PM
Quote
WASHINGTON -- Two congressmen want Citigroup out of Citi Field.

Reps. Dennis Kucinich and Ted Poe sent a letter to new Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner on Thursday, urging the government to demand that the company drop its $400 million, 20-year agreement for naming rights to the New York Mets' ballpark. The stadium opens in April.

The Boy Mayor has been on fire lately... somewhere Raoul Triumph Qwerty is doing a fistpump.

McCain is saying he doesn't see any REP votes for the stimulus bill in the senate.

Where were those fuckers when the first bailout bill was introduced? That's right, that bill favored their constituents ... fuck those guys and their fake principles.






Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: AdmiralViscen on January 30, 2009, 04:11:40 PM
Uh oh Steele said God bless his party but not America. Will his flag pin balance out this error?

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Brehvolution on January 30, 2009, 04:25:16 PM
Plus Steele is just incredibly dishonest and intellectually disingenuous. My primary exposure to him is with his GOPAC garbage and his appearance on Bill Maher when he shit all over himself.

Isn't this a requirement to be head of the RNC?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on January 30, 2009, 04:34:58 PM
Zero, you forgot to mention that he probably hates poor people and wants to see them die.


Here's an interesting read:
Quote
Dear Mr. President, A Bonus Isn't A Bonus
Posted By: Cliff Mason

 
A bonus by any other name would smell just as sweet.

The fury over the fact that Wall Street paid out $18.4 billion in bonuses in 2008, the "sixth largest" amount in history, is about words and nothing else.

This isn't a compensation issue, it's a diction issue.

Outside of lower Manhattan, a "bonus" is a special, one-off reward for performance above and beyond what's expected of an employee. And if investment bankers had gotten $18.4 billion worth of bonuses in that traditional sense of the word, then of course it would be truly outrageous.

But on Wall Street, and at many law firms as well, a bonus is simply part, often the greater part, of your regular compensation. It may vary from year to year, but when you take one of these jobs, the understanding is that you'll be paid a base-salary and once a year you'll also get a "bonus."

The bonus varies in size from year to year, but it's not actually a "bonus" in the way most people think of the word. It's an expected part of your salary, delivered in a lump- sum near Christmastime. Historically, for many people on Wall Street, the base salary is much less than they could be earning elsewhere, but because they know they're getting a sizable "bonus," it makes sense for them to stay at their jobs.

So a bonus isn't a bonus.

But since the vast majority of people don't know that, the public gets angry. And when the public gets angry, Democratic politicians who probably know better have to demagogue the issue. That's how you get the President saying, "there will be a time for profits and bonuses. Now is not that time."

I don't think this is class-warfare, although I wouldn't mind some of that, it's a simple misunderstanding. Obama wouldn't say, "now is not the time for paychecks." But that's essentially what a bonus is on Wall Street, just an expected part of your compensation. This is not crooked, greedy CEOs lining their wallets, although I won't deny that plenty of that happens.

The screwed up thing is that it's clear Obama wants to help these bankers, or at least keep their companies alive. But, as I see it, they're making it as hard on him as they possibly can from a PR standpoint, which is all that matters in politics.

We can't create a "bad bank" to relieve troubled financial institutions of their depressed assets if they're paying out $18.4 billion in "bonuses." It just looks terrible. So here's my advice to Wall Street: help us help you.

Stop paying bonuses.

Call them something else.

Think of something boring like "annual performance-adjusted block compensation."


I know "bonus" sounds sexy, but that's precisely what's wrong with the term.

A little verbal magic and this whole problem goes away.




Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on January 30, 2009, 04:37:10 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPqyhmSGOZM#t=3m30s

Ron Paul Owns socialist biatch. 
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 30, 2009, 04:58:20 PM
Why do you bother posting that shit.  Honestly, are you, like, a masochist?  Do you enjoy verbal berating?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 30, 2009, 05:02:38 PM
McCain is saying he doesn't see any REP votes for the stimulus bill in the senate.
Does it matter? They are on the verge of losing their filibuster power anyway (politico says those close to gregg say he'll accept if obama asks him, no way obama will pass this up).
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Brehvolution on January 30, 2009, 06:05:25 PM
Steele probably hates poor people and wants to see them die.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: drew on January 30, 2009, 11:16:58 PM
horrible shit :-X :yuck
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on January 30, 2009, 11:18:28 PM
Obama considering deal that would turn down 60 seat possibility?

Quote
According to First Read, the possible nomination of Sen. Judd Gregg (R-NH) as President Obama's secretary of commerce is "very real."

"Senate Republicans are upset that he hasn't put the story to bed. So clearly he's pondering. One sticking point is that New Hampshire has a Dem governor, John Lynch, and that could give Democrats 60 seats if Gregg leaves and Al Franken eventually wins. One idea floating out there is a deal between Obama/Gregg and Lynch to appoint a caretaker Republican (perhaps ex-Sen. Warren Rudman?). Even if he doesn't take the job, Gregg is certainly sending the signal that he doesn't want to run in 2010. That is a terrible sign for the Senate GOP. Another retirement makes the idea of netting a single seat in 2010 nearly impossible. This likely outcome in 2010 actually could mean Lynch and Obama are open to a deal that keeps a Republican in the seat until November 2010, since getting that 60th senate seat in the coming years seems probable."

CQ Politics quotes Sen. Jon Kyl (R-AZ) saying the appointment would be "a pretty sneaky, sneaky move to get a really good person as Commerce secretary and put us in a bind politically."
http://politicalwire.com/

Sounds like something he'd do
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: MyNameIsMethodis on January 30, 2009, 11:30:42 PM
It is ridiculous that marijuana isn't legal yet. There's no excuse really.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: brawndolicious on January 30, 2009, 11:51:26 PM
I doubt that a 60 seat majority would make it legal.  A "filibuster-proof" majority is also not necessarily the best idea in general anyways.  This will turn the remaining repubs redder and could make a few dems on the fence on certain issues the swing vote.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on January 31, 2009, 12:13:25 AM
Joe Biden used to be big on war on drugs shit, right?  We aren't getting legal weed anytime soon.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: brawndolicious on January 31, 2009, 12:28:59 AM
He kind of went too far with the Reducing Americans Vulnerability to Ecstasy (RAVE) act but in general, he mainly seems to be opposed to pills, steroids, and date-rape drugs.  I honestly can't see him crusading against weed.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on January 31, 2009, 02:17:19 AM
i think public opinion polls for marijuana legalization are at like 40% these days?  we'll probably get it in 10-15 years or so.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on January 31, 2009, 03:16:15 AM
Obama won't legalize it in a million years, regardless of 60 seats.

Everyone I know who complains about weed not being legal has a steady connect. Whiny bastards
Title: I'm gonna keep asking until you answer.
Post by: Mandark on January 31, 2009, 07:15:07 AM
siamesedreamer:

Why do roads count as stimulus but schools don't?

Why should education spending be addressed only in education bills, but transportation spending is allowed to be included in the stimulus bill?

Does spending somehow not boost aggregate demand when it goes towards teaching?

Please explain your logic.




edit:
Quote
what is it with posturing libertarians and their straw men?

This is a great help to my Liberal Argument Bingo Card. I am just a "cognitive dissonance" and a bar graph away from calling Bingo.

Nah, he nailed you.

Prole says the government shouldn't be giving out a ridiculous subsidy to new car buyers, and you respond with "well guess ya don't want a manufacturing base har har har."

If you don't want to call that a straw man, it's at least as obvious a false dichotomy as you'll find round this corner of the net.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on January 31, 2009, 07:48:34 AM
It will be a long time before a President legalizes weed.  Like now, any legalizing will be done at the city or state level.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on January 31, 2009, 08:18:48 AM
There is much bigger fish to fry than legalizing weed.  Besides, it is easy to get a steady connection and given how it is the most profitable cash crop in the US, the government isn't doing a great job at stopping a lot of it.  So smoke a bowl and relax.

Quote
Obama considering deal that would turn down 60 seat possibility?

The Dems will get it in 2010.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on January 31, 2009, 08:51:54 AM
Joe Biden used to be big on war on drugs shit, right?  We aren't getting legal weed anytime soon.
Obama won't legalize it regardless of Biden.

I don't get why people think just because Obama used weed for years and years and did coke back in high school/college that he'll unban that stuff. He is still a politician and doing something like that is political suicide.

Obama is a pretty clean guy now anyway.  Stopped doing drugs when he was in his late 20's. He quit smoking. And he says he has quit drinking alcohol as well.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: huckleberry on January 31, 2009, 09:32:49 AM
Joe Biden used to be big on war on drugs shit, right?  We aren't getting legal weed anytime soon.
Obama won't legalize it regardless of Biden.

I don't get why people think just because Obama used weed for years and years and did coke back in high school/college that he'll unban that stuff. He is still a politician and doing something like that is political suicide.

Obama is a pretty clean guy now anyway.  Stopped doing drugs when he was in his late 20's. He quit smoking. And he says he has quit drinking alcohol as well.

He quit smoking?  He will start up again with all the stress on him......once a smoker always a smoker.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on January 31, 2009, 10:21:18 AM
It may boost it on the margins if it actually filters down to the local level. The cost/benefit ratio isn't worth all the billions at the federal level though. Too many hands it has to pass through before it gets to So-And-So Middle School, etc. Giving it directly to the states would probably be better.

Even Obama knows this plan is shit. He has now backed away from the 4 million jobs created number to 3 million and "by the end of 2010" has now turned into "over the next few years". 

I guess this is what Woodward was referring to a few days back:

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/01/bumps-in-the-ro.html (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/01/bumps-in-the-ro.html)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on January 31, 2009, 11:14:43 AM
Could you actually answer the questions I asked?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on January 31, 2009, 11:39:14 AM
bobobobobo when jimmy carter taxed the rich we went into a recession! yet when we taxed the rich under eisenhower the economy improved! who to believe!

correlation != causation, simps
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Madrun Badrun on January 31, 2009, 12:36:12 PM
Obama did coke and weed?  really?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: MyNameIsMethodis on January 31, 2009, 02:48:10 PM
I just don't want to be looked down upon and want to buy marijuana from a store. Plus drug testing for marijuana is ridiculous. That should not exist. Anything harder I agree but not Marijuana.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on January 31, 2009, 02:53:59 PM
I just don't want to be looked down upon and want to buy marijuana from a store. Plus drug testing for marijuana is ridiculous. That should not exist. Anything harder I agree but not Marijuana.

Why not?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on January 31, 2009, 02:57:46 PM
During the Golden Age of Capitalism, the highest tax bracket was 70%
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on January 31, 2009, 03:04:06 PM
why does the whitehouse website feature a photo of Obama watching himself on TV?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: MyNameIsMethodis on January 31, 2009, 03:05:33 PM
I just don't want to be looked down upon and want to buy marijuana from a store. Plus drug testing for marijuana is ridiculous. That should not exist. Anything harder I agree but not Marijuana.

Why not?

I mean on the job testing is fine, but firing someone because they use marihuana in their own time shouldn't be allowed.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 31, 2009, 03:30:16 PM
Not saying this as my opinion but just to get discussion rolling, what if someone were to light up right before going to work, with a particularly strong type of pot?  I mean, wouldn't that affect that person's work efficiency?

Just a theoretical.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: MyNameIsMethodis on January 31, 2009, 03:32:09 PM
Highly skilled jobs where machinery is involved yes, but any other place it'd be no different than getting relief form a cigarette. They might actually do better work.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Madrun Badrun on January 31, 2009, 03:34:25 PM
why does the whitehouse website feature a photo of Obama watching himself on TV?

It's symbolic for his high *continentia


                *editors note:  continentia means self control
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 31, 2009, 03:36:01 PM
Not saying this as my opinion but just to get discussion rolling, what if someone were to light up right before going to work, with a particularly strong type of pot?  I mean, wouldn't that affect that person's work efficiency?

Just a theoretical.

Would you drink a shot vodka right before going to work? This is common sense. Use it.

I wouldn't, no, but uh, there are actually dumb people in this country.  Who do pretty much exactly what you said.

I'm not against this in anyway, I was just bringing up the other side.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Brehvolution on January 31, 2009, 03:41:04 PM
Not saying this as my opinion but just to get discussion rolling, what if someone were to light up right before going to work, with a particularly strong type of pot?  I mean, wouldn't that affect that person's work efficiency?

Just a theoretical.

Years ago, I had 3 friends who were all line cooks at a Ruby Tuesday. They would all light up before work and pretty much everyone they worked with all did too. Even the GM of the place joined in.

I've smoked with teachers, local business owners, and cops who were off duty.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: tiesto on January 31, 2009, 03:44:08 PM
He kind of went too far with the Reducing Americans Vulnerability to Ecstasy (RAVE) act but in general, he mainly seems to be opposed to pills, steroids, and date-rape drugs.  I honestly can't see him crusading against weed.

RAVE act was pretty distinguished mentally-challenged though. Forced a lot of great clubs to shut down :(
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on January 31, 2009, 04:13:34 PM
Highly skilled jobs where machinery is involved yes, but any other place it'd be no different than getting relief form a cigarette. They might actually do better work.


Peoples brain chemistry are not the same. Some people get panic attacks when they smoke weed, some people get drowsy, some get addicted. Some people are too stupid to realize when the drug is having a negative effect on their lives.

I'm for it for legit medicinal reasons. It should be a state issue, not a federal one.



Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: MyNameIsMethodis on January 31, 2009, 04:15:23 PM
Not addictive.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 31, 2009, 05:08:29 PM
Highly skilled jobs where machinery is involved yes, but any other place it'd be no different than getting relief form a cigarette. They might actually do better work.


Peoples brain chemistry are not the same. Some people get panic attacks when they smoke weed, some people get drowsy, some get addicted. Some people are too stupid to realize when the drug is having a negative effect on their lives.

I'm for it for legit medicinal reasons. It should be a state issue, not a federal one.





This is my thinking of it as well.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on January 31, 2009, 05:11:07 PM
Highly skilled jobs where machinery is involved yes, but any other place it'd be no different than getting relief form a cigarette. They might actually do better work.


Peoples brain chemistry are not the same. Some people get panic attacks when they smoke weed, some people get drowsy, some get addicted. Some people are too stupid to realize when the drug is having a negative effect on their lives.

I'm for it for legit medicinal reasons. It should be a state issue, not a federal one.

This is different than alcohol how, exactly?  Also, weed doesn't even kill brain cells like alcohol does.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 31, 2009, 05:13:46 PM
It's not, but again, whoever drinks and then goes to work is surely gonna get in trouble.

Meh, I don't care about it in the slightest.  It's such a pointless issue.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on January 31, 2009, 05:15:28 PM
I don't think it is.  I'd like to regularly use marijuana.  It turns down the constant anxiety I feel.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 31, 2009, 05:19:06 PM
Well I'm behind you on that.  Like I said, I don't care either way, just as long as people don't hurt others.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 31, 2009, 05:19:28 PM
our avatars are having a staring contest
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Oblivion on January 31, 2009, 05:31:23 PM
I don't do drugs, but I'd have no problem with having all forms legalized.

I mean, hell alcohol and cigarettes kill more people per year than the other harmful drugs combined, yet they're still legal...
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 31, 2009, 05:56:29 PM
All forms?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Madrun Badrun on January 31, 2009, 06:00:22 PM
All forms?

yes.  But if you mean directly then no. 

anyways the argument is weak because they don't kill more people because they are more harmful, they kill more people because they are legal so more people do them. 
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on January 31, 2009, 06:03:01 PM
All forms?

yes.  But if you mean directly then no. 

anyways the argument is weak because they don't kill more people because they are more harmful, they kill more people because they are legal so more people do them. 

At least in the case of marijuana, this argument doesn't quite hold up since marijuana is less physically damaging than alcohol (and cigarettes, but that's a wishy washier area).
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on January 31, 2009, 06:03:45 PM
No substance should be illegal unless you think that governments role is to take care of you. Afterall the only people dumb enough to use hard drugs deserve whatever comes their way.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Oblivion on January 31, 2009, 06:04:31 PM
All forms?

Sure, why not?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on January 31, 2009, 06:05:16 PM
No substance should be illegal unless you think that governments role is to take care of you. Afterall the only people dumb enough to use hard drugs deserve whatever comes their way.

Not quite.  There are some things that need to be restricted.  The most commonly cited thing being antibiotics.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 31, 2009, 06:05:23 PM
I don't know, just seems odd to have shit like meth or acid legal.  Marijuana's one thing (that I'm completely okay with), but meth?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on January 31, 2009, 06:06:11 PM
I don't know, just seems odd to have shit like meth or acid legal.  Marijuana's one thing (that I'm completely okay with), but meth?

If meth and acid were legel would you do them?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Enl on January 31, 2009, 06:06:15 PM
Since we're on the subject and it's on today's news:


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/7862691.stm
Quote
Obama half-brother on drug charge    

George Obama is the President's younger half-brother
The Kenyan half-brother of President Barack Obama has been arrested for alleged marijuana possession.

George Obama was arrested in Nairobi with one joint of marijuana, police chief Joshua Omokulongolo said.

"He is not a drug peddler. But it is illegal, it is a banned substance," he said. Mr Obama has denied the allegations.

The US president and George Obama share the same father, but are thought to have only met each other briefly.

George Obama, who is in his 20s, is due in court on Monday.

"They took me from my home," George Obama told reporters in Nairobi from his jail cell. " I don't know why they are charging me."

 
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on January 31, 2009, 06:06:52 PM
I've seen quite a few towns devastated by meth.  I'm not in favor of legalizing it at all.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 31, 2009, 06:07:26 PM
I don't know, just seems odd to have shit like meth or acid legal.  Marijuana's one thing (that I'm completely okay with), but meth?

If meth and acid were legel would you do them?

No.  I don't really do anything, though, so wrong person to ask.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Oblivion on January 31, 2009, 06:15:06 PM
Well, I mean I wouldn't want people to use them. But if it's properly regulated, with the warnings and side effects and shit known, then let people do what they want. I mean, you could die by drinking too much alcohol, afterall.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on January 31, 2009, 06:18:30 PM
BrandNew, you haven't lived until you've done acid or shrooms.  You simply have to try at least one of them.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 31, 2009, 06:20:28 PM
I think the effects of alcohol are pretty different from the effects of meth.  You ever compare the addicts of both drugs?  Who would you rather have walking around?

Meh, I don't know.  I just don't like the idea of there being a legal way of becoming a meth head.

edit: Heh, I've been offered but I just don't really care to.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on January 31, 2009, 06:24:09 PM
I think the effects of alcohol are pretty different from the effects of meth.  You ever compare the addicts of both drugs?  Who would you rather have walking around?

Meh, I don't know.  I just don't like the idea of there being a legal way of becoming a meth head.

edit: Heh, I've been offered but I just don't really care to.

There are meth heads walking around.  They are prescribed to desoxyn and other similar drugs.  If meth were legalized, ideally it would begin to be produced by reputable companies that could ensure purity.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 31, 2009, 06:25:47 PM
Eh, I'm no drug expert, I just don't care to take part.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Madrun Badrun on January 31, 2009, 06:43:26 PM
New I thought you want to become a musician or atleast work with them?  com'on all the cool kids are doing it.     
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: brawndolicious on January 31, 2009, 06:47:05 PM
No substance should be illegal unless you think that governments role is to take care of you. Afterall the only people dumb enough to use hard drugs deserve whatever comes their way.
That's a really childish way of looking at it.  A drug addict doesn't just hurt themselves.  Especially if they turn to crime to pay for their drugs.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 31, 2009, 07:17:02 PM
New I thought you want to become a musician or atleast work with them?  com'on all the cool kids are doing it.     

I don't see how that should matter.  I love the music; making it, listening to it, etc.  Just because all of them do it doesn't become a detriment to my enjoyment.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on January 31, 2009, 07:18:11 PM
But with the magic of drugs, music sounds even better.  That's no exaggeration.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: MyNameIsMethodis on January 31, 2009, 07:23:21 PM
That it is not. Music is ten times better on drugs.

Especially harmless marihuana. It literally sounds like the music is three-dimensional. It's so fucking trippy.

I listened to Casey Jones once and I swore Jerry Garcia was playing in my ear.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: drew on January 31, 2009, 07:25:08 PM
there is no such thing as "harmless marijuana"

horrible horrible shit
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on January 31, 2009, 07:27:34 PM
That it is not. Music is ten times better on drugs.

Especially harmless marihuana. It literally sounds like the music is three-dimensional. It's so fucking trippy.

I listened to Casey Jones once and I swore Jerry Garcia was playing in my ear.

It's so awesome when you trance out on shit.  Naturally, this works best with heavily texturized psychedelic music.  Probably best with Can, who combine that texturization with hypnotic, repeating, and evolving riffs.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on January 31, 2009, 07:29:43 PM
Can we stop talking about sin plz
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: MyNameIsMethodis on January 31, 2009, 07:29:54 PM
there is no such thing as "harmless marijuana"

horrible horrible shit

Please tell me how marihuana is horrible?

Besides the price inflation, that is.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: drew on January 31, 2009, 07:30:38 PM
do cool drugs like booze, narcotics, coke, xanax, amphetamines and cigarettes

stay away from all that hippy dippy shit
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: drew on January 31, 2009, 07:31:40 PM
uh, it just fucking is.  you probably havent done enough to get to that point yet.  it makes you super self aware and anxious
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: MyNameIsMethodis on January 31, 2009, 07:31:53 PM
Anything harder than marihuana sucks.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: MyNameIsMethodis on January 31, 2009, 07:32:07 PM
uh, it just fucking is.  you probably havent done enough to get to that point yet.  it makes you super self aware and anxious

You distinguished mentally-challenged fellow i've done it for longer than you've been alive.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: drew on January 31, 2009, 07:33:07 PM
iv smoked more in a 3 year period than you will in your life

staring at the hairs on your nose is not my idea of a fun time
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: MyNameIsMethodis on January 31, 2009, 07:33:57 PM
Atleast we know why you suck cocks now.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
:teehee
[close]
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: MyNameIsMethodis on January 31, 2009, 07:36:11 PM
Also Obamas ooga boogie getting caught for it means we'll likely see it decriminilized atleast.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: MyNameIsMethodis on January 31, 2009, 07:40:14 PM
Isn't that in Alabama?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Madrun Badrun on January 31, 2009, 07:41:17 PM
 :lol
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: MyNameIsMethodis on January 31, 2009, 07:42:18 PM
Of course i'm joking we all know it's a street in New Orleans.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on January 31, 2009, 08:04:36 PM
bobobobobo when jimmy carter taxed the rich we went into a recession! yet when we taxed the rich under eisenhower the economy improved! who to believe!

correlation != causation, simps

I'm no expert on 1970's US fiscal policy, but I don't think Carter actually soaked the rich (http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/legislation/1970.cfm).
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on January 31, 2009, 08:11:58 PM
i've been hearing republitards chant "carter taxed the rich and bubububu 1976" for so long i hadn't thought to question the presumption. republicans are the biggest girls' blouses out there. :punch
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Oblivion on January 31, 2009, 09:14:45 PM
I think the effects of alcohol are pretty different from the effects of meth.  You ever compare the addicts of both drugs?  Who would you rather have walking around?

Meh, I don't know.  I just don't like the idea of there being a legal way of becoming a meth head.

edit: Heh, I've been offered but I just don't really care to.

From some site. (http://www.clearhavencenter.com/substance-abuse-treatment-resources/signs-of-Methamphetamine-use.php)

    * Hyperactivity
    * Irritability
    * Visual hallucinations
    * Auditory hallucinations (hearing "voices")
    * Suicidal tendencies
    * Aggression
    * Suspiciousness, severe paranoia
    * Shortness of breath
    * Increased blood pressure
    * Cardiac arrhythmia
    * Stroke
    * Sweating
    * Nausea, vomiting, diarrhea
    * Long periods of sleep ("crashing" for 24-48 hours or more)
    * Prolonged sluggishness, severe depression
    * Weight loss, malnutrition, anorexia
    * Itching (illusion that bugs are crawling on the skin)
    * Welts on the skin
    * Involuntary body movements
    * Paranoid delusions

Many of which also are effects of too much alcohol. If people take it knowing the possible results, well...


But really, I'm just in favor of legalization of drugs so that many of the problems, such as putting drug dealers out of business, reducing prison population and providing a very massive source of revenue for taxes.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 31, 2009, 09:18:39 PM
Understandable, and I think that makes plenty of sense.  I'm just not big on the actual drugs themselves.

Again, meh.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on January 31, 2009, 09:20:31 PM
Dude, there are like entire genres of music that cannot be truly appreciated without the power of drugs.  You're not making the best possible choices to maximize your education.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: MyNameIsMethodis on January 31, 2009, 09:23:09 PM
Even the great american hero Michael Phelps smoke pot.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 31, 2009, 09:23:34 PM
Why do you care so much?  I enjoy music just as much as anyone else I know, and that's including my friends who smoke and take acid.  In fact, a lot of them look to me for new music and what I think of so-and-so.  I enjoy music more than anything in my life, and I'm completely okay with how I listen to it.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on January 31, 2009, 09:24:25 PM
Good. Don't let anyone peer pressure you into destroying your mind/body :punch
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: MyNameIsMethodis on January 31, 2009, 09:25:04 PM
Why do you care so much?  I enjoy music just as much as anyone else I know, and that's including my friends who smoke and take acid.  In fact, a lot of them look to me for new music and what I think of so-and-so.  I enjoy music more than anything in my life, and I'm completely okay with how I listen to it.

Yeah but you don't experience music. That's why Hendrix wrote a song about it. You listen to music, we experience it.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Positive Touch on January 31, 2009, 09:25:34 PM
Why do you care so much?  I enjoy music just as much as anyone else I know, and that's including my friends who smoke and take acid.  In fact, a lot of them look to me for new music and what I think of so-and-so.  I enjoy music more than anything in my life, and I'm completely okay with how I listen to it.

but just think - you could take all the music you love and make it EVEN BETTER
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on January 31, 2009, 09:26:04 PM
Why do you care so much?  I enjoy music just as much as anyone else I know, and that's including my friends who smoke and take acid.  In fact, a lot of them look to me for new music and what I think of so-and-so.  I enjoy music more than anything in my life, and I'm completely okay with how I listen to it.

I care because you'd be surprised.  
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 31, 2009, 09:28:55 PM
Why do you care so much?  I enjoy music just as much as anyone else I know, and that's including my friends who smoke and take acid.  In fact, a lot of them look to me for new music and what I think of so-and-so.  I enjoy music more than anything in my life, and I'm completely okay with how I listen to it.

Yeah but you don't experience music. That's why Hendrix wrote a song about it. You listen to music, we experience it.

Oh that's just dandy.  What makes you think I don't "experience" it?  I get so emotionally attached to what I listen to, how do you come off thinking your on a higher plane of enjoyment than I am?

edit: also this isn't the place for this sort of discussion.  just make a new thread
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: MyNameIsMethodis on January 31, 2009, 09:32:33 PM
I can't make a thread because i'm a leper, you make the thread.

And no, you just listen to music and have emotional attachment. When you experience you literally experience it. You ride it like a helicopter.

Nothing beats the experience of sitting with your friends with a couple joints and bongs, and sharing music that everyone just feels and rocks out too.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Madrun Badrun on January 31, 2009, 09:33:07 PM
com'on New do it. 
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 31, 2009, 09:36:52 PM
I need new friends at least, no one wants to sit down and listen to The Dodos or Animal Collective with me, they'd rather listen to like Zeppelin.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on January 31, 2009, 09:39:50 PM
Fuck your friends.  If they don't listen to Merzbow, they're fegs.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 31, 2009, 09:41:24 PM
My dad has that old Beethoven synth album, btw TVC, that I tried to bring over one day and they all just laughed at me.  I left  :'(
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on January 31, 2009, 09:44:06 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neLKgSdrch8

:rock
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 31, 2009, 09:46:00 PM
:-/
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Madrun Badrun on January 31, 2009, 09:49:06 PM
See what your missing by not taking drugs?  Poor New. 
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: MyNameIsMethodis on January 31, 2009, 09:51:09 PM
Animal Collective becomes a totally different beast under marihuana
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on January 31, 2009, 09:53:01 PM
Animal Collective becomes a totally different beast under marihuana

Really, why even bother listening to a psychedelic band if there are no drugs involved?  It's as pointless as having sex while wearing a condom.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Positive Touch on January 31, 2009, 09:54:36 PM
Animal Collective becomes a totally different beast under marihuana

Really, why even bother listening to a psychedelic band if there are no drugs involved?  It's as pointless as having sex while wearing a condom.
bastards :/
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 31, 2009, 09:56:58 PM
Animal Collective becomes a totally different beast under marihuana

Well, okay.  I fucking love them already.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: MyNameIsMethodis on January 31, 2009, 09:59:17 PM
BrandNew it's worth it, especially if you love music. You'll become so much more creative too. It won't work on your first try so if you get discouraged don't worry, that happens to everyone. The second time is when it takes you for a ride.

When It first hit me Tribute was on by Tenacious D. It was pretty much the musical video taking place in my head.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on January 31, 2009, 10:02:06 PM
Also, psychedelics totally make them chunky early moogs and other modular analog synthesizers sound completely awesome.  It's like the music is wired directly into your brain.  It's amazing.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: MyNameIsMethodis on January 31, 2009, 10:04:58 PM
We're not asking him to do drugs, we're sharing stories.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: MyNameIsMethodis on January 31, 2009, 10:05:24 PM
I've been clean for 5 years.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on January 31, 2009, 10:06:52 PM
Asking someone to do drugs just so they could appreciate music more is stupid.

Psychoactive agents can be used to make things better.  The air force gives amphetamines to pilots because it makes them perform better.  There's absolutely nothing wrong with using chemicals to improve yourself.  If I don't take DMAE, I stutter really bad, for example.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: AdmiralViscen on January 31, 2009, 10:12:25 PM
Why is everyone all over BrandNew's shit? It's his life.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on January 31, 2009, 10:16:56 PM
Why is everyone all over BrandNew's shit? It's his life.

Because he'd be a better person on drugs.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Madrun Badrun on January 31, 2009, 10:22:59 PM
Why is everyone all over BrandNew's shit? It's his life.

Because he'd be a better person on drugs.
.

And because not only would he finally experience music he would also experience sex. 
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 31, 2009, 10:26:49 PM
Better person?  lol okay
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: AdmiralViscen on January 31, 2009, 10:27:59 PM
BrandNew, do you eat out assholes or allow yourself to be rimmed?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 31, 2009, 10:29:10 PM
I actually just shit in a toilet and leave it at that.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on January 31, 2009, 10:29:15 PM
Of course, this is all self-serving in the end.  I just want Brand New to become a total junkie so I can buy him on rentboy.com.  I'd make him clean my place naked.  While he'd be working on the toilet, I'd attack and rape him from behind while shoving his head in the toilet.  Then while his face was wet, I'd shave his face with my razor that never gets any actual action because I can't grow facial hair.

So you're getting started on this a little too late, so I'd just skip the weed and kiddie shit and jump right into pain killers.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: AdmiralViscen on January 31, 2009, 10:30:08 PM
I actually just shit in a toilet and leave it at that.

Are you kidding me? You haven't experienced sexual gratification. I want you to bury your nose in the next taint you see and go hog wild
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 31, 2009, 10:31:01 PM
My computer screen will get nose prints and get all fogged up, though
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: AdmiralViscen on January 31, 2009, 10:33:15 PM
OK, delete my PM
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: drew on January 31, 2009, 10:34:46 PM
brandnew has never even seen a vagina, much less a taint
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 31, 2009, 10:35:57 PM
truth
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 31, 2009, 10:36:08 PM
well this thread is ruined
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on January 31, 2009, 10:48:47 PM
You guys are great. :heartbeat


Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on January 31, 2009, 10:54:59 PM
This is the best thread ever. On weed.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Flannel Boy on January 31, 2009, 10:55:14 PM
What the hell does page 17 have to do with Obama?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: BlueTsunami on January 31, 2009, 10:56:02 PM
This thread is now about BrandNew gettin' high and gettin' pussy
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: drew on January 31, 2009, 10:56:40 PM
So you're getting started on this a little too late, so I'd just skip the weed and kiddie shit and jump right into pain killers.

this.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Flannel Boy on January 31, 2009, 11:00:56 PM
/me reads the last two pages.

Music sounds best when I'm lying motionless with my eyes closed in a semi-meditative state.

That or on the floor in the fetal position, drunk and crying.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Brehvolution on January 31, 2009, 11:03:45 PM
This is the best thread ever. On weed.

(http://i43.tinypic.com/6qdtly.jpg)

:bow
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Madrun Badrun on January 31, 2009, 11:11:39 PM
/me reads the last two pages.

Music sounds best when I'm lying motionless with my eyes closed in a semi-meditative state.

That or on the floor in the fetal position, drunk and crying.

.

Though when drunk and crying I usually scream, which destroys the music somewhat. 

Edit:  Bringing the off topic to the 18th page.  WOOT. 
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Flannel Boy on January 31, 2009, 11:17:27 PM

Though when drunk and crying I usually scream, which destroys the music somewhat. 


It goes well with some Yoko Ono singles.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: drew on January 31, 2009, 11:19:54 PM
music sounds the best on adderall - fact

its especially dangerous mixed w/ online downloading, youll look at the shit you downloaded the next day and be like wtf
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Akala on January 31, 2009, 11:28:32 PM
music sounds the best on adderall - fact

its especially dangerous mixed w/ online downloading, youll look at the shit you downloaded the next day and be like wtf

 :lol

The shit that I DL while drunk is ten times worse that anything I'd ever get tweaked out. For example...

I actually got Nicola Conte, the best of the fucking cranberries, and lil wayne last night after going out. LIL WAYNE. smh.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: MyNameIsMethodis on February 01, 2009, 12:46:03 AM
Music while drunk is just violent. Music while high is ecstacy.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 01, 2009, 12:47:21 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neLKgSdrch8

:rock

noise
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: drew on February 01, 2009, 12:48:10 AM
lil wayne is awesome stfu

listen to the carter 4 leak

http://www.datpiff.com/lil_wayne_lil_wayne_eminemjers_cocaine_bishop.m31204.html
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: brawndolicious on February 01, 2009, 12:55:24 AM
would Obama have won if he had vitiligo?

He did drugs before and he became president.  If he had vitiligo, I don't think he would have become president.  Therefore, doing drugs is better than being white.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on February 01, 2009, 03:06:15 AM
Real talk:  if a video appeared on the internet of this happening to Obama a week before the elections, would he still have won?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7l6jg4Hlog
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 02, 2009, 06:29:11 PM
Quote
Newt Gingrich said he sees "an open Republican field" for the 2012 Republican presidential race, The Hill reports. But he made special mention of Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin (R).

Said Gingrich: "If Sarah Palin seeks out a group of very sophisticated policy advisers and develops a fairly sophisticated platform, she will be very formidable."

According to The Hotline, he says Palin would have a "substantial advantage" in Iowa, the first-in-the nation caucus state, where she has "a very big base."

Just after the presidential election, Gingrich downplayed Palin's strength in the Republican party.
http://politicalwire.com/

in other words "if she chooses me as her surrogate and then vp"
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on February 02, 2009, 07:22:18 PM
omg Palin/Gingrich '12   :o
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on February 02, 2009, 07:26:57 PM
Gingrich: Out of touch since 2004*

*and all years before
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on February 02, 2009, 07:37:02 PM
Newt can't run.  Too much dirt.  We've been over this.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Joe Molotov on February 02, 2009, 07:40:29 PM
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2009/jan/29/obama-first-broken-promise/

Obama's told his first lie. The honeymoon's over.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Boogie on February 02, 2009, 09:36:00 PM
The last thing we need, more pigs.

F*ck you too.  ::)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 02, 2009, 09:51:22 PM
Newt can't run.  Too much dirt.  We've been over this.

Newt could be her Karl Rove.


====


Republicans float out some of their ideas.

Quote
McConnell also said Republicans favor cutting the two lowest tax brackets as a way to " put money back in people's hands directly." If adopted, that would reduce the tax rate from 10 percent to 5 percent for the first $8,350 in individual income for the current year, and $16,700 for couples. The tax rate would be lowered from 15 percent to 10 percent on income between $8,351 and $33,950 for individuals and between $16,701 and $67,900 for couples.

bububu they hate poor people!!

Quote
Separately, Republican officials said they intended to press for a $15,000 tax credit for homebuyers through the end of the year. Current law permits a $7,500 tax break and limits it to first-time homebuyers.


Those seem like solid ideas to me. Add those and cut out some of that pork, and you have a stimulus bill.



Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 02, 2009, 10:44:31 PM
Those seem like solid ideas to me. Add those and cut out some of that pork, and you have a stimulus bill.




It isn't that simple as "cut some of that pork" Republicans and Democrats don't agree on what pork is. At least in terms of this bill.
Title: BUY AMERICAN SMH
Post by: Madrun Badrun on February 02, 2009, 10:48:37 PM

US rescue deal clause 'dangerous'
President Barack Obama
Barack Obama says he expects a "difficult few days"

The EU and Canada have warned that a clause in the US economic recovery package could promote protectionism.

The "Buy American" clause seeks to ensure that only US iron, steel and manufactured goods are used in construction work funded by the bill.

The EU ambassador in Washington said that if approved, the measure would set a "dangerous precedent".

The $800bn (£567bn) rescue plan package is under discussion in the US Senate this week.

Meanwhile, President Barack Obama is expected to name Republican Senator Judd Gregg as commerce secretary.

Mr Gregg would be the third Republican in Mr Obama's cabinet.

The president's first choice for the post, New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson, withdrew following questions about his links to big business.

'Dangerous precedent'

The BBC's Jonathan Beale in Washington says Mr Obama will hope that Mr Gregg's nomination can help him secure approval for the stimulus package.

It is unlikely that the package, which has already been approved by the House of Representatives, will be able to pass the Senate without Republican support.
   
If we have a series of protectionist measures introduced, then the possibility of real global leadership is put at risk
John Bruton
EU ambassador to Washington

The White House has said it is reviewing the "Buy American" part of the stimulus bill, although Vice President Joe Biden said last week that it was legitimate to have some portion of Buy American in the final measure.

EU Ambassador John Bruton said that if passed, the measure could sap global public confidence.

"If we have a series of protectionist measures introduced, then the possibility of real global leadership is put at risk," he said.

"We regard this legislation as setting a very dangerous precedent at a time when the world is facing a global economic crisis."

'Retaliatory risk'

In a letter to Senate leaders, the Canadian ambassador in Washington, Michael Wilson, said that if "Buy American" was in the final legislation, it would set a negative precedent with global repercussions.

"The United States will lose the moral authority to pressure others not to introduce protectionist policies," he wrote.

Canadian International Trade Minister Stockwell Day said Canada hoped to be exempted from any such measure, which he warned could lead to a global depression.

"These protectionist measures, in a time of recession, only make things worse," he told broadcaster CBC.

"It can only trigger retaliatory action and we don't want to go there."

There is also opposition from some senior US Republicans who say the measure could start trade wars.

Mr Obama has urged the US Congress not to delay his stimulus plan over modest differences.

He said on Monday that he was expecting a "difficult next few days" as the Senate debated the package.

He also warned that more US banks are likely to fail as the full extent of their losses in the economic crisis becomes clear.

The Democrat leader in the Senate, Harry Reid, has said he hopes the stimulus can be approved by the end of the week.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on February 03, 2009, 12:17:20 AM
Republicans float out some of their ideas.

Quote
McConnell also said Republicans favor cutting the two lowest tax brackets as a way to " put money back in people's hands directly." If adopted, that would reduce the tax rate from 10 percent to 5 percent for the first $8,350 in individual income for the current year, and $16,700 for couples. The tax rate would be lowered from 15 percent to 10 percent on income between $8,351 and $33,950 for individuals and between $16,701 and $67,900 for couples.

bububu they hate poor people!!

Quote
Separately, Republican officials said they intended to press for a $15,000 tax credit for homebuyers through the end of the year. Current law permits a $7,500 tax break and limits it to first-time homebuyers.


Those seem like solid ideas to me. Add those and cut out some of that pork, and you have a stimulus bill.

The story (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gdDrWnoMueqVFI-Uo1ClxVZur22AD963QI980) seems to imply that the cut in the lower brackets replaces the refundable tax credits, which would be a Bad Thing.

And why a bigger credit for house purchases?  That seems kinda dumb.  For one, don't prices still have a way to go before they get back in line with the long term trend?  Secondly, if you change it from first-time buyers to all buyers, you're not creating demand for new homes (edit: which I'm not sure we should be doing anyway).

This plan sounds better than DeMint's, at least.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: brawndolicious on February 03, 2009, 01:35:32 AM
What if a  company expects a large reduction in profit in the near future?  It makes sense to cut unnecessary positions now so that more profit can be tucked away for the future.  Basically, the idea is that you cut X,000 jobs now so that you don't have to cut 2X,000 jobs in the future.

It seems highly unlikely that most companies would expect their profits to grow in the next couple of years.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 03, 2009, 01:45:13 AM
Just because a company is profitable for the quarter doesn't mean they will be profitable in the future. That's why they can announce positive earnings on the same day they announce job cuts. They are forecasting losses and the job cuts are done to offset those future losses.


It's a sign to Wall St that you are proactive and not reactive.



Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on February 03, 2009, 01:59:15 AM
Yeah, layoffs are in anticipation of the near future.  A company that expects sales to crash in the coming year is going to cut costs, just as one that was in the red but expects to start raking it in will probably maintain or expand their workforce.

More generally, you should expect corporations to pay as few people as little money as they possibly can.  That's what they do.  It's offset somewhat by workers' demand for job security.  More if the workers have leverage (tight labor market, unions), less in times like this.



Re: The home buying tax credit.  It's basically an interest free loan that's paid back over 15 years.  The current version is a one year temporary deal, which the Blue Dogs liked because it's basically revenue neutral.  It seems to barely change the cost of a mortgage, so I'm not sure it would have any significant effects on the market.

Someone must think it does, though.  The realtor and homebuilder lobbies pushed for it.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 03, 2009, 08:22:42 AM
Saw this on GAF, I am really glad that Obama refuses to listen to Petraeus. Although it seems to be getting the military angry.

Quote
CENTCOM commander Gen. David Petraeus, supported by Defence Secretary Robert Gates, tried to convince President Barack Obama that he had to back down from his campaign pledge to withdraw all U.S. combat troops from Iraq within 16 months at an Oval Office meeting Jan. 21.

But Obama informed Gates, Petraeus and Joint Chiefs Chairman Adm. Mike Mullen that he wasn't convinced and that he wanted Gates and the military leaders to come back quickly with a detailed 16-month plan, according to two sources who have talked with participants in the meeting.

Obama's decision to override Petraeus's recommendation has not ended the conflict between the president and senior military officers over troop withdrawal, however. There are indications that Petraeus and his allies in the military and the Pentagon, including Gen. Ray Odierno, now the top commander in Iraq, have already begun to try to pressure Obama to change his withdrawal policy.

A network of senior military officers is also reported to be preparing to support Petraeus and Odierno by mobilising public opinion against Obama's decision.

Petraeus was visibly unhappy when he left the Oval Office, according to one of the sources. A White House staffer present at the meeting was quoted by the source as saying, "Petraeus made the mistake of thinking he was still dealing with George Bush instead of with Barack Obama."
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 03, 2009, 08:28:50 AM
We'll see who wins this tug of war. I'm not convinced Obama will meet his 16 month deadline.

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 03, 2009, 10:51:44 AM
Another day...another Obama tax cheat nominee:

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/02/another-tax-pro.html (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/02/another-tax-pro.html)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 03, 2009, 10:55:04 AM
The income tax is unconstitutional. Just another American hero
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Beardo on February 03, 2009, 11:03:40 AM
Another day...another Obama tax cheat nominee:

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/02/another-tax-pro.html (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/02/another-tax-pro.html)

Wow. I wonder if huffington post is reporting all of this.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 03, 2009, 11:07:12 AM
Obama is announcing the Gregg nomination now. Brilliant for the obvious reason that it will give them another seat in 2010. But, also brilliant because he can blame the sluggish recovery on a Republican.

I don't really see what Gregg gains from it though. He gets the token REP cabinet position for four years tops when he won the Senate seat with a 66% vote in a heavily DEM state. Re-election would be well within the realm of possibility.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Rman on February 03, 2009, 11:10:37 AM
Jesus, how hard it is to hire a decent accountant.  They definitely have the money.  Totally ridiculous.   
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 03, 2009, 11:12:06 AM
Another day...another Obama tax cheat nominee:

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/02/another-tax-pro.html (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/02/another-tax-pro.html)

Wow. I wonder if huffington post is reporting all of this.

front page news

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/07/nancy-killefer-obamas-chi_n_155910.html

It actually says she took 18 months to pay the taxes, not the 5 months ABC claims


edit: length of the error vs time it took for her to resolve it after it was found
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 03, 2009, 11:35:20 AM
The Daschle thing really bothers me. Not because the guy did some great injustice, but it just shows you the golden parachute these politicians get when they leave office (usually because of incompetence).

I heard some talking head defend Daschle by saying, "Well, he did public service for 20 years and ONLY made a million dollars". Like he made some great sacrifice and he was grossly underpaid for it.

During the Stevens debacle, one of his fellow Senators excused him by stating, (paraphasing) "He is from the old school and doesn't understand how it's done." The implication being that the old way of doing it was taking small bribes while in office, now everyone knows how to do it.

I would like my politics to be like eating meat. I will feel better about the end product if I remain ignorant of how it's really done.

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: patrickula on February 03, 2009, 11:39:50 AM
Daschle's shady.  Hopefully he doesn't make it (though I'm sure he'd have a soft landing anyway  :-\).
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 03, 2009, 11:57:16 AM
Daschle's shady.  Hopefully he doesn't make it (though I'm sure he'd have a soft landing anyway  :-\).
He was not only a senator but senate majority leader so he is buddy buddy with everyone in the senate and thus able to personally persuade anyone who may vote against him. I bet he'll get more than 60 votes in the end.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 03, 2009, 12:01:55 PM
Evidently Peter Rouse, Obama's chief of staff, was with Daschle for 19 years. So, no surprise why Daschle was selected for a position he is barely qualified for.

When you consider what Linda Chavez lost her nomination for in 2001, it would be pretty remarkable (and sad) for Daschle to make it through

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_Chavez#Career_in_Republican_administrations
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 03, 2009, 12:27:18 PM
Ban me for 16 months if we're out of Iraq in 16 months
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: patrickula on February 03, 2009, 12:49:21 PM
Daschle's shady.  Hopefully he doesn't make it (though I'm sure he'd have a soft landing anyway  :-\).
He was not only a senator but senate majority leader so he is buddy buddy with everyone in the senate and thus able to personally persuade anyone who may vote against him. I bet he'll get more than 60 votes in the end.
I don't doubt it.  He's pals with Bob Dole too.  I'm just hoping.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 03, 2009, 12:50:18 PM
Daschle's out...
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: patrickula on February 03, 2009, 01:07:59 PM
THE POWER OF MY HOPE :omg
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 03, 2009, 01:34:41 PM
Wow. And he was one of Obama's earliest big name endorses too.  :lol
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: brawndolicious on February 03, 2009, 01:37:55 PM
Saw this on GAF, I am really glad that Obama refuses to listen to Petraeus. Although it seems to be getting the military angry.
How is this in any way a good thing?  He's not listening to the person most qualified to tell him what to do with Iraq.  Pulling out of Iraq was just PR bullshit and Obama's hoping that Iraq doesn't shit itself in less than 4 years.
Title: Malek, find me the :amnintenho
Post by: Mandark on February 03, 2009, 03:22:38 PM
Saw this on GAF, I am really glad that Obama refuses to listen to Petraeus. Although it seems to be getting the military angry.
How is this in any way a good thing?  He's not listening to the person most qualified to tell him what to do with Iraq.  Pulling out of Iraq was just PR bullshit and Obama's hoping that Iraq doesn't shit itself in less than 4 years.

If Iraq were just some technical problem, then you could hand it off to the experts and let them deal with it.  But this ain't airline safety and Petraeus ain't the FAA.

Iraq is a political issue, in the broad sense.  These are decisions about who controls what, and how the US affects that through its military.  Let Petraeus start making those decisions, and you'll have essentially appointed him as viceroy of Iraq at that point.  You wouldn't let a general decide whether to start a war, so why let one decide to continue an occupation?

What's always missing from these discussions is Iraqi agency.  Well, public opinion is vastly in favor of the US GingTFO, and they negotiated a status of forces agreement on the condition that the US GsTFO.  Let's remember that it's not our country.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: brawndolicious on February 03, 2009, 06:25:29 PM
Oh come on, Petraeus should have some say in when the pull out happens.  Obama just disregarding any legitimate security concerns that he has is idiotic.  What Obama should have done is at least compromised and pushed it up a few months so that Petraeus can feel that Obama is somewhat reasonable.  The only reason for a 16 month plan is to get the troops back by Independance Day 2011 so that Obama can get a PR boost.  Keeping to this schedule doesn't help Obama's relationship with the military, Iraq's security, and it especially won't help America's image if another dictator takes over.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 03, 2009, 07:27:36 PM
Oh come on, Petraeus should have some say in when the pull out happens.  Obama just disregarding any legitimate security concerns that he has is idiotic.  What Obama should have done is at least compromised and pushed it up a few months so that Petraeus can feel that Obama is somewhat reasonable.  The only reason for a 16 month plan is to get the troops back by Independance Day 2011 so that Obama can get a PR boost.  Keeping to this schedule doesn't help Obama's relationship with the military, Iraq's security, and it especially won't help America's image if another dictator takes over.

He promised the American people 16 months in the campaign. And I am glad he is sticking to his word on this.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: brawndolicious on February 03, 2009, 07:31:05 PM
so he should take a risk with Iraq and hurt his relationship with the military so that he can be an honest guy?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 03, 2009, 07:36:39 PM
You act like he made that decision on a whim and ignored everyone. He came up with that plan based on the advice and counsel of military experts (who I'd imagine know a hell lot more than you or I on this).

Just because the Petreus and his loyalists disagree don't make him right. Obama has plenty of military advisors who agree with him and helped craft the 16 month plan.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Beardo on February 03, 2009, 07:39:01 PM
You act like he made that decision on a whim and ignored everyone. He came up with that plan based on the advice and counsel of military experts (who I'd imagine know a hell lot more than you or I on this).

Just because the Petreus and his loyalists disagree don't make him right. Obama has plenty of military advisors who agree with him and helped craft the 16 month plan.

Who?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 03, 2009, 07:46:20 PM
Draw down in Iraq fine. Probably the best opportunity we've had since the invasion.

But, I don't agree with doubling the forces in Afland. History shows it never ends well.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Boogie on February 03, 2009, 07:48:53 PM
so he should take a risk with Iraq and hurt his relationship with the military so that he can be an honest guy?


He's the president.

There should be no fucking concerns with "his relationship with the military"

Sounds like LeMay-esque bullshit to me.

You act like he made that decision on a whim and ignored everyone. He came up with that plan based on the advice and counsel of military experts (who I'd imagine know a hell lot more than you or I on this).

Just because the Petreus and his loyalists disagree don't make him right. Obama has plenty of military advisors who agree with him and helped craft the 16 month plan.

Exactly.  There is absolutely no reason why Obama should be beholden to the military.  They have valuable input, to be sure, but they don't make policy.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: brawndolicious on February 03, 2009, 07:51:07 PM
No, I can see Obama's justification for the 16 month timeline.  He obviously has a political motivation but the problem is that Petraeus isn't comfortable at all with it and Obama, for PR reasons if any, can't extend the timeline even a few months.  This is totally justified behavior for Obama since he is not a messiah that's going to end racism or corruption.  He's a diplomat.

What I can't understand is why anybody would cheer this.  If the president has a bad relationship with the military, that won't help the country at all.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Boogie on February 03, 2009, 07:54:37 PM
No, I can see Obama's justification for the 16 month timeline.  He obviously has a political motivation but the problem is that Petraeus isn't comfortable at all with it and Obama, for PR reasons if any, can't extend the timeline even a few months.  This is totally justified behavior for Obama since he is not a messiah that's going to end racism or corruption.  He's a diplomat.

What I can't understand is why anybody would cheer this.  If the president has a bad relationship with the military, that won't help the country at all.

You clearly did not get my reference.

Kennedy had a "bad relationship" with the military too.  It didn't harm the country one bit.  And in fact, probably was a good thing during the Cuban Missile Crisis.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: brawndolicious on February 03, 2009, 08:03:13 PM
You clearly did not get my reference.
Kennedy had a "bad relationship" with the military too.  It didn't harm the country one bit.  And in fact, probably was a good thing during the Cuban Missile Crisis.
Which partly is why the Bay of Pigs failed and possibly even why Johnson started the Vietnam War.  You want to half-ass a military operation for political interests and you'll end up in deep shit.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Beardo on February 03, 2009, 08:03:51 PM
You clearly did not get my reference.
Kennedy had a "bad relationship" with the military too.  It didn't harm the country one bit.  And in fact, probably was a good thing during the Cuban Missile Crisis.
Which partly is why the Bay of Pigs failed and possibly even why Johnson started the Vietnam War.  You want to half-ass a military operation for political interests and you'll end up in deep shit.

What are you talking about?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on February 03, 2009, 08:11:50 PM
I doubt it will be 16 months.  2-3 years maybe.  Once the right wing steps up their FUD and tries to make it seem like we're /)(\ short of victory, Obama will marginally adjust his schedule.  Most people though want out of Iraq.  Not necessarily because of whether it is a success or not (most people think not) but people don't want to spend hundreds of billions a year for another country.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Boogie on February 03, 2009, 08:12:09 PM
You clearly did not get my reference.
Kennedy had a "bad relationship" with the military too.  It didn't harm the country one bit.  And in fact, probably was a good thing during the Cuban Missile Crisis.
Which partly is why the Bay of Pigs failed

No.

The Bay of Pigs was a CIA fuckup. It only has to do with a "bad relationship with the military" if you believe Kennedy should have ceded to military pressure to commence airstrikes on Cuba.


Quote
and possibly even why Johnson started the Vietnam War. 

wtf?

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 03, 2009, 08:17:41 PM
No, I can see Obama's justification for the 16 month timeline.  He obviously has a political motivation but the problem is that Petraeus isn't comfortable at all with it and Obama, for PR reasons if any, can't extend the timeline even a few months.  This is totally justified behavior for Obama since he is not a messiah that's going to end racism or corruption.  He's a diplomat.

What I can't understand is why anybody would cheer this.  If the president has a bad relationship with the military, that won't help the country at all.

You clearly did not get my reference.

Kennedy had a "bad relationship" with the military too.
  It didn't harm the country one bit.  And in fact, probably was a good thing during the Cuban Missile Crisis.
And we know how that turned out
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on February 03, 2009, 08:18:54 PM
.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on February 03, 2009, 09:14:55 PM
No, I can see Obama's justification for the 16 month timeline.  He obviously has a political motivation but the problem is that Petraeus isn't comfortable at all with it and Obama, for PR reasons if any, can't extend the timeline even a few months.  This is totally justified behavior for Obama since he is not a messiah that's going to end racism or corruption.  He's a diplomat.

What I can't understand is why anybody would cheer this.  If the president has a bad relationship with the military, that won't help the country at all.

You clearly did not get my reference.

Kennedy had a "bad relationship" with the military too.
  It didn't harm the country one bit.  And in fact, probably was a good thing during the Cuban Missile Crisis.
And we know how that turned out

:lol pd, you're actually starting to make real funny
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: patrickula on February 03, 2009, 11:12:54 PM
am nintenho, you know that Iraq signed a security agreement  last year prescribing that American troops be out in 2011 right?
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/17/world/middleeast/17iraq.html?hp
I don't think it should be up to to the military to dictate policy in the least anyway, but this is something the US is obligated to do already.
Title: Re: BUY AMERICAN SMH
Post by: chronovore on February 03, 2009, 11:54:02 PM
Meanwhile, President Barack Obama is expected to name Republican Senator Judd Gregg as commerce secretary.

Mr Gregg would be the third Republican in Mr Obama's cabinet.

The president's first choice for the post, New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson, withdrew following questions about his links to big business.

I love that there were concerns about Bill Richardson's big business connections, but we have rarely heard a peep about Cheney's no-bid contract awards to Halliburton, where he had been CEO until 2000, right up until taking the office of VPOTUS. The irony. I am choking on it.
Title: Re: BUY AMERICAN SMH
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on February 04, 2009, 12:00:22 AM
Meanwhile, President Barack Obama is expected to name Republican Senator Judd Gregg as commerce secretary.

Mr Gregg would be the third Republican in Mr Obama's cabinet.

The president's first choice for the post, New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson, withdrew following questions about his links to big business.

I love that there were concerns about Bill Richardson's big business connections, but we have rarely heard a peep about Cheney's no-bid contract awards to Halliburton, where he had been CEO until 2000, right up until taking the office of VPOTUS. The irony. I am choking on it.

That or the butt buddy relationship between Ken Lay and the Bush family.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: brawndolicious on February 04, 2009, 01:44:52 AM
patrick, this is the worst time to start caring
am nintenho, you know that Iraq signed a security agreement  last year prescribing that American troops be out in 2011 right?
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/17/world/middleeast/17iraq.html?hp
I don't think it should be up to to the military to dictate policy in the least anyway, but this is something the US is obligated to do already.
What does that have to do with what I said?  My problem is with Obama sticking to the 16 month timeline.
No.
The Bay of Pigs was a CIA fuckup. It only has to do with a "bad relationship with the military" if you believe Kennedy should have ceded to military pressure to commence airstrikes on Cuba.
Quote
and possibly even why Johnson started the Vietnam War. 
wtf?
There is no way that the BoP would have been successful without air support.  The only realistic options would have been to either allow the air support, or not allow the operation at all.  Going ahead with it was suicide.

I was kind of joking about the Vietnam war thing since some people say that Johnson went ahead with that to gain favor with the military.
Title: am nintenho, willing to lose the plot in order to win a thread
Post by: Mandark on February 04, 2009, 01:48:48 AM
Oh come on, Petraeus should have some say in when the pull out happens.  Obama just disregarding any legitimate security concerns that he has is idiotic.  What Obama should have done is at least compromised and pushed it up a few months so that Petraeus can feel that Obama is somewhat reasonable.  The only reason for a 16 month plan is to get the troops back by Independance Day 2011 so that Obama can get a PR boost.  Keeping to this schedule doesn't help Obama's relationship with the military, Iraq's security, and it especially won't help America's image if another dictator takes over.

Ugh.

Hey guys, let's make the unstated assumption that American troop presence is always a force for stability and progress and the only motivation for opposing it must be selfish and political!  As long as we all agree on that, then the argument can proceed!  How about let's not.

"Now that's not fair.  I'm taking Petraeus' word for it, and surely we should listen to him?"

Hey, I'm as willing to defer to technical authority as anyone here.  But Petraeus isn't the only expert, and he's far from an unbiased one.

The man is a project manager.  Of course he wants more resources and time.  His job is to evaluate how the military can achieve its goals, not to run a cost-benefit on whether those goals are achievable, cost-efficient, or desirable in the larger scheme of international politics.  His job precludes him from declaring the mission futile, but someone else has to make the call at some point.

"Yeah, but what if there's a dictator?  That would be bad!"

Who?  Nobody's got the muscle to take down Maliki.  Maliki could become a strongman, but he's already halfway there thanks to the Bush administration, not that they actually planned it.

He was playing with house money:  he knew he could call in the US to protect his regime and back up his power grabs, as long as they were carried out under the flag of the Iraqi government.  He was able to populate the national army with party loyalists and elbow out rivals, rather than seeking peaceful compromises, because he had the most guns.  Our guns.

It's like the military version of lemon socialism.  Uncle Sam bails him out when things go badly, but Maliki reaps the benefits after the victories.

The point is that America can't control the political outcomes in Iraq, or even steer them towards some acceptable range.  The strongest regional and national players will continue to consolidate their control, using both violent and non-violent means, whether the US is there or not.

"Relationship with the military!  He should at least make Petraeus feel like he's being listened to."

He should spend a few dozen billion dollars more, and let more Americans die, so that a general won't have his feelings hurt?  I like to think I'm fairly sensitive, but come the fuck on.

If only Truman had nuked the hell out of China, to keep MacArthur from pouting.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: brawndolicious on February 04, 2009, 02:07:36 AM
I'm sure that Patraeus has gained more knowledge of actually keeping Iraq secure than any politician.  He's not the only expert, but he's the guy in charge.  If anything, Obama's actions just undermine Patraeus' authority and makes Iraqis even less impressed with the US and the other security forces in the country after Saddam.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on February 04, 2009, 02:19:32 AM
I'm sure that Patraeus has gained more knowledge of actually keeping Iraq secure than any politician.  He's not the only expert, but he's the guy in charge.  If anything, Obama's actions just undermine Patraeus' authority and makes Iraqis even less impressed with the US and the other security forces in the country after Saddam.

Obama can't give Petraeus orders because it undermines his authority?  Does this mean that Petraeus can't contradict the advice of his lieutenants (who surely have even more detailed local knowledge of their specific areas than he does) because it would undermine them?

Iraqis are going to see Obama telling his generals to start pulling out troops, something that the Iraqi people have demanded, and they will lose respect for the US?

God, so dumb.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: brawndolicious on February 04, 2009, 02:21:12 AM
No, seeing the guy who was in charge of Iraq's security get ignored completely reflects badly on the US.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on February 04, 2009, 02:23:42 AM
No, seeing the guy who was in charge of Iraq's security get ignored completely reflects badly on the US.

So you're saying that Petraeus should be able to make policy and supercede the president.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: brawndolicious on February 04, 2009, 02:57:22 AM
And he should also be allowed a couple hunting accidents.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on February 04, 2009, 02:59:14 AM
am nintenho annihilated.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 04, 2009, 12:51:25 PM
Cheney melting faces
Quote
Former Vice President Dick Cheney warned that there is a “high probability” that terrorists will attempt a catastrophic nuclear or biological attack in coming years, and said he fears the Obama administration’s policies will make it more likely the attempt will succeed.

In an interview Tuesday with Politico, Cheney unyieldingly defended the Bush administration’s support for the Guantanamo Bay prison and coercive interrogation of terrorism suspects.

And he asserted that President Obama will either backtrack on his stated intentions to end those policies or put the country at risk in ways more severe than most Americans — and, he charged, many members of Obama’s own team — understand.

“When we get people who are more concerned about reading the rights to an Al Qaeda terrorist than they are with protecting the United States against people who are absolutely committed to do anything they can to kill Americans, then I worry,” Cheney said.

Protecting the country’s security is “a tough, mean, dirty, nasty business,” he said. “These are evil people. And we’re not going to win this fight by turning the other cheek.”

Citing intelligence reports :teehee, Cheney said at least 61 of the inmates who were released from Guantanamo during the Bush administration — “that’s about 11 or 12 percent” — have “gone back into the business of being terrorists.”

Quote
The choice, he alleged, reflects a naive mindset among the new team in Washington: “The United States needs to be not so much loved as it needs to be respected. Sometimes, that requires us to take actions that generate controversy. I’m not at all sure that that’s what the Obama administration believes.”
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0209/18390.html

More plus video at link
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 04, 2009, 12:53:53 PM
The stimulus bill is turning into a Grade A disaster for Obama and the DEMs. Durbin says there's not enough votes to get it through the Senate. Rasmussen polling shows a plurality now oppose it. And at least one Blue Dog is saying Obama told him to vote against it.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 04, 2009, 01:12:27 PM
Cheney is the most amazing (not in a good way) VP ever. I think in about 5 years or so when former Bushies start to write books, you will see how cunning he was.

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 04, 2009, 05:15:02 PM
I'm sure that Patraeus has gained more knowledge of actually keeping Iraq secure than any politician.  He's not the only expert, but he's the guy in charge.  If anything, Obama's actions just undermine Patraeus' authority and makes Iraqis even less impressed with the US and the other security forces in the country after Saddam.

what the fuck

The stimulus bill is turning into a Grade A disaster for Obama and the DEMs. Durbin says there's not enough votes to get it through the Senate. Rasmussen polling shows a plurality now oppose it. And at least one Blue Dog is saying Obama told him to vote against it**.

**the House version of the bill
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Crushed on February 04, 2009, 05:34:52 PM
Quote
Protecting the country’s security is “a tough, mean, dirty, nasty business,” he said. “These are evil people. And we’re not going to win this fight by turning the other cheek.”

indeed, so we must fight these evil anti-americans with all of our power

(arrests everyone who supported bush, has them tried and executed for crimes against humanity)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on February 04, 2009, 07:26:10 PM
Quote
FWD: FWD: FWD: 0. Hussein Soetoro Marxbama a MUSLIM!?!??! READ!

if that name were on the ballot I would have totally voted for him over the milquetoast Wall Street captive we appear to have elected  :'(
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Crushed on February 04, 2009, 08:42:23 PM
the milquetoast Wall Street captive

HE'S A SOCIALIST *is a distinguished mentally-challenged fellow, has no idea what socialism is, is so far right that he makes nixon look like a hippy*
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: patrickula on February 04, 2009, 11:18:40 PM
Quote
Cheney said at least 61 of the inmates who were released from Guantanamo during the Bush administration — “that’s about 11 or 12 percent” — have “gone back into the business of being terrorists.”
Oh well in that case, we should keep them all locked up forever, just to be on the safe side.

Who cares if 90% are innocent.  I'd rather let nine innocents be wrongfully imprisoned for life than let one guilty man go free :american
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Crushed on February 04, 2009, 11:31:26 PM
wait

how can they "return" to being terrorists if they were released for being found not terrorists


then again, being wrongly imprisoned for years may just create a few terrorists
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on February 05, 2009, 12:09:48 AM
wait

how can they "return" to being terrorists if they were released for being found not terrorists


then again, being wrongly imprisoned for years may just create a few terrorists

The Washington Post ran a front page story on a US-run prison in Iraq a little while ago.  The story was that they've greatly improved the prison system from the early years of the war, but still have no way of even trying to judge guilt and at this point aren't even that interested in it.

They're more worried about former prisoners joining the fight (for revenge or whatever reasons) than they are about prosecuting the guilty.

It's kind of understandable but it's still absurd.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: brawndolicious on February 05, 2009, 01:34:32 AM
Some people would be held for months without being charged in Iraq.  Most Iraqis think that it's a pretty limp-wristed puppet government at this point.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 05, 2009, 12:41:23 PM
 :piss http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/04/AR2009020403174.html?hpid=opinionsbox1 (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/04/AR2009020403174.html?hpid=opinionsbox1) :piss2
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on February 05, 2009, 12:50:06 PM
Yeah, let's just do nothing, that'll fix it.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: y2kev on February 05, 2009, 12:51:25 PM
The writer is president of the United States.


hahahaha
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Crushed on February 05, 2009, 01:11:43 PM
sd, why are you not supporting the president, you traitorous america hater

THIS IZ ARE CUNTRY, YOU DON'T LIKE IT YOU CAN GIT OUT
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Rman on February 05, 2009, 01:22:48 PM
Does am nintendho understand the chain of command?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: CajoleJuice on February 05, 2009, 01:29:32 PM
lol SD
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 05, 2009, 01:48:47 PM
Yeah, let's just do nothing, that'll fix it.

No, you don't understand, we need TAX CUTS.  That will fix it, even though TAX CUTS are like a 1/3rd less effective as stimulus as opposed to spending.  DUR DUR DUR.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 05, 2009, 02:27:01 PM
I want this thing passed almost just to get the thing over with, I am SOOOO tired of reading about it.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 05, 2009, 03:43:16 PM
The CBO is now saying the stimulus bill is worse than doing nothing.  :lol
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on February 05, 2009, 03:50:00 PM
cdo? collaboration data objects? collateralized debt obligations? link, tardo!
Title: If someone doesn't link their source, they probably don't want you to read it
Post by: Mandark on February 05, 2009, 04:01:31 PM
cdo? collaboration data objects? collateralized debt obligations? link, tardo!

Oh, he's just lying about this. (http://cboblog.cbo.gov/)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 05, 2009, 04:03:16 PM
http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2009/02/05/obama-stimulus-plan-worse-than-doing-nothing/ (http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2009/02/05/obama-stimulus-plan-worse-than-doing-nothing/)


And for those keeping score at home, SofLabor appointee Hilda Solis is the latest Obama cabinet tax cheat.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on February 05, 2009, 04:11:20 PM
Oh lawdy, bringing up a Redstate diarist (http://www.redstate.com/mark_i/)?

Quote from: Mark Impomeni
When John McCain suspended his campaign on Wednesday and asked for a postponement of tonight’s debate, Barack Obama’s initial reaction was to hurl an insult, saying that he could handle the Wall Street bailout negotiations and debate at the same time. It was a foreshadowing of the juvenile, petty, and petulant candidate that would show up in Oxford, Mississippi tonight. McCain won this debate on points. But critically, he also won on temperament and likeability, allegedly Obama’s strong points. McCain got under Obama’s skin, and it showed.

That's some quality analysis right there, yep.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 05, 2009, 04:13:38 PM
bubububu the source.

Title: Wait, weren't you kvetching about a Krugman endorsement recently?
Post by: Mandark on February 05, 2009, 04:15:04 PM
Dude, I linked to the original source (the CBO report) two posts ago.  Keep up!
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on February 05, 2009, 04:15:59 PM
lol sd
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 05, 2009, 04:16:13 PM
Oh lawdy, bringing up a Redstate diarist (http://www.redstate.com/mark_i/)?

Quote from: Mark Impomeni
When John McCain suspended his campaign on Wednesday and asked for a postponement of tonight’s debate, Barack Obama’s initial reaction was to hurl an insult, saying that he could handle the Wall Street bailout negotiations and debate at the same time. It was a foreshadowing of the juvenile, petty, and petulant candidate that would show up in Oxford, Mississippi tonight. McCain won this debate on points. But critically, he also won on temperament and likeability, allegedly Obama’s strong points. McCain got under Obama’s skin, and it showed.

That's some quality analysis right there, yep.

wait, what?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 05, 2009, 04:17:10 PM
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/feb/04/cbo-obama-stimulus-harmful-over-long-haul/ (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/feb/04/cbo-obama-stimulus-harmful-over-long-haul/)

That dude alright?
Title: Tch tch.
Post by: Mandark on February 05, 2009, 04:18:22 PM
sd, are you paying attention?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 05, 2009, 04:22:26 PM
links be flyin all over the place
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on February 05, 2009, 04:28:47 PM
PROTIP:  If you're reading a news or opinion piece pegged on the phrase "A report released today by..." then you can probably just find the original document yourself.

Which saves you the trouble of correcting for someone's ideological filter, or the embarrassment of looking like a dope if you don't.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 05, 2009, 04:40:57 PM
Whatever...
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on February 05, 2009, 04:51:00 PM
Quote from: Doug Elmendorf
The negative effect of crowding out could be offset somewhat by a positive long-term effect on the economy of some provsions—such as funding for infrastructure spending, education programs, and investment incentives, which might increase economic output in the long run.

Wait, I remember someone getting super angry at education spending which should be totally kept out of the bill because it's not stimulus because...  something.

Whoever shall I listen to?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 05, 2009, 04:51:07 PM
http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2009/02/05/obama-stimulus-plan-worse-than-doing-nothing/ (http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2009/02/05/obama-stimulus-plan-worse-than-doing-nothing/)


And for those keeping score at home, SofLabor appointee Hilda Solis is the latest Obama cabinet tax cheat.

No, her husband is.  smh.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on February 05, 2009, 05:38:51 PM
apparently in sd's world, CBO reports (and perhaps primary sources in general) do not actually exist as concrete entities in their own right, only as abstract base classes for others' interpretations
Title: I always figured sd lived in a cave
Post by: Mandark on February 05, 2009, 06:11:11 PM
apparently in sd's world, CBO reports (and perhaps primary sources in general) do not actually exist as concrete entities in their own right, only as abstract base classes for others' interpretations

Perhaps they are Forms, existing merely as unreachable ideals, which can only be approximated in our world by Washington Times editorials.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 05, 2009, 06:16:21 PM
God y'all are fucking crybabies.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on February 05, 2009, 06:28:19 PM
Quote from: siamesedreamer
Mom, they're being mean again!

 :violin


For a reasonable rate of $29.95 $19.95 (special 2G2D price!) a month, you can subscribe to the Mandark Kid Gloves Program, in which I don't ridicule you for your innumeracy, ahistoricality, or miscellaneous ignorance.

Perfect for the insecure poster who is unwilling to learn but unable to shake their forum habit!

We're looking to provide bonus content in the future, including a partner program that will buy emotional protection from some of the most illustrious Evilbore brands (malek, recursivelynumerable, and maybe even Prole!) or a Platinum Club in which we will go so far as to feign interest in and respect for your point of view.

Offer good for all currently unbanned EB non-lepers.  Act now!
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Crushed on February 05, 2009, 06:59:06 PM
God y'all are fucking crybabies.

you've been spending this entire thread crying about every time obama clips his toenails
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 05, 2009, 07:18:48 PM
I remember when sd liked obama, because of his health care plan lol
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 05, 2009, 07:20:45 PM
lots of people liked Obama before he showed his true color(s)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 05, 2009, 11:11:54 PM
Obama is getting fiery and pissed off at Republicans. He got more partisan tonight than I have seen him get in quite a while:

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0209/Fired_up_again.html?showall
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on February 05, 2009, 11:18:52 PM
wow he sounded pissed

sd, he's looking at you
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Brehvolution on February 06, 2009, 12:12:32 AM
Obama is getting fiery and pissed off at Republicans. He got more partisan tonight than I have seen him get in quite a while:

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0209/Fired_up_again.html?showall


I find it comforting that our president isn't another mouth piece for big oil or some corporation push an agenda.

Title: Remember when his numbers were high enough to call them the "Bush tax cuts"?
Post by: Mandark on February 06, 2009, 12:19:10 AM
Here (http://demint.senate.gov/public/_files/2009-02-02_DeMint_Jobs_Plan_Summary.pdf) is the Demint alternative plan I mentioned a while back.

Quote
1) Defuse the 2011 tax bomb: Stop tax increases set to hit the economy in 2011.

o Permanently repeal the alternative minimum tax once and for all;
o Permanently keep the capital gains and dividends taxes at 15 percent;
o Permanently kill the Death Tax for estates under $5 million, and cut the tax rate to 15 percent for those above;
o Permanently extend the $1,000-per-child tax credit; o Permanently repeal the marriage tax penalty;
o Permanently simplify itemized deductions to include only home mortgage interest and charitable contributions.

2) Long term, broad based tax cuts for American families and businesses.

o Lower top marginal income rates – the one paid by most of the small businesses that create new jobs – from 35 percent to 25 percent.
o Simplify the tax code to include only two other brackets, 15 and 10 percent. o Lower corporate tax rate as well, from 35 percent to 25 percent. The U.S. corporate tax rate is second highest among all industrialized nations, driving investment and jobs overseas. Lowering this key rate will unlock trillions of dollars to be invested in America instead of abroad.
o This is not only good economic policy, but a matter of fairness. No American family should be forced to pay the federal government more than 25 percent of the fruits of their hard labor.


Basically a series of permanent tax cuts as a response to a temporary problem, with no attached spending cuts or any estimate of how much it would cost.  Well, you expect some Republicans to push the Grover Norquist line.

But this was put up to a vote as an amendment to the stimulus bill, and 36 Republican senators voted for it with only 4 against (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=111&session=1&vote=00038).  That's insane.

I probably shouldn't have been surprised by this, but I kept hearing about how the Senate Republicans, because of statewide elections and the collegial nature of the chamber, would be more moderate than the House GOP.  So much for that.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on February 06, 2009, 12:27:06 AM
If the country collapses while they quibble over this ponderous bill, will everyone finally agree with me about how democracy doesn't work?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on February 06, 2009, 12:33:40 AM
The sheer arrogance of this post is mind-boggling.

See, now you're gonna have to pay the full $29.95. :wag
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Crushed on February 06, 2009, 12:37:14 AM
If the country collapses while they quibble over this ponderous bill, will everyone finally agree with me about how democracy doesn't work?

"democracy and capitalism work because we're number one, so it's not their fault if we become number 10"
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: drew on February 06, 2009, 12:41:20 AM
who the fuck is mandark?

must live in seattle
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 06, 2009, 12:42:25 AM
If the country collapses while they quibble over this ponderous bill...

I don't really feel like this bill will have any effect on the near term, whether it passes or fails. 3-4 years from now, it will have a substantial effect (both positive and negative).
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: drew on February 06, 2009, 12:50:51 AM
iconfag
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on February 06, 2009, 12:53:49 AM
If the country collapses while they quibble over this ponderous bill...

I don't really feel like this bill will have any effect on the near term, whether it passes or fails. 3-4 years from now, it will have a substantial effect (both positive and negative).

Going by the CBO estimates (http://cboblog.cbo.gov/?p=205) and the Romer-Bernstein paper (http://otrans.3cdn.net/45593e8ecbd339d074_l3m6bt1te.pdf) (warning: pdf) the opposite should actually be true.

Which makes sense.  Four years from now most of the money will have been spent, and we should be into a recovery period either way, meaning there's less potential difference in the outcomes.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 06, 2009, 01:12:37 AM
Quote from: Doug Elmendorf
The negative effect of crowding out could be offset somewhat by a positive long-term effect on the economy of some provsions—such as funding for infrastructure spending, education programs, and investment incentives, which might increase economic output in the long run.

Wait, I remember someone getting super angry at education spending which should be totally kept out of the bill because it's not stimulus because...  something.

Whoever shall I listen to?

Making stuff up again I see.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 06, 2009, 01:13:36 AM
I would be happy to eat crow if this package can come close to creating 2 million jobs by the end of this calendar year (according to the CBO report).

I just don't see it happening.


Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on February 06, 2009, 01:26:31 AM
TA:  It'll definitely create jobs, if only because so much money is being spent.

I think the sticking point is that when they say it will "create X jobs in year Y" they're comparing it to how many jobs would be created/destroyed without the stimulus.

What they're measuring is basically the space between the two lines on page 4 of the Romer-Bernstein paper.



sd: Come again?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 06, 2009, 01:28:09 AM
Obama is getting fiery and pissed off at Republicans. He got more partisan tonight than I have seen him get in quite a while:

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0209/Fired_up_again.html?showall


:piss boohoo the republicans won't pass my pork pos, i'm too inexperienced to reach across the table and recognize tax cuts stimulate more than massive gov handouts :piss2

brb lemme give a speech to solve my problems
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on February 06, 2009, 01:29:04 AM
shyeah mayne
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 06, 2009, 01:34:59 AM

I think the sticking point is that when they say it will "create X jobs in year Y" they're comparing it to how many jobs would be created/destroyed without the stimulus.

So they are making a prediction that can not be proven true/false in hindsight. Because you can't have dual realities where both occurrences are true.

Pfah



It's funny that Obama is wasting his time demonizing Republicans (and leaning on what's left of the Moderates), when it's the people in his very own party that are keeping this bill held up. If he had a unified Dem party, he could pass it without the Republicans.


Title: Yes yes, totally the Dems' fault
Post by: Mandark on February 06, 2009, 01:51:36 AM
Well, yeah.  You don't get control groups in macroeconomics, just counterfactuals.  That's why it's hard.

But they are giving specific numbers now that can be used as a basis for comparison later and being pretty open in their methodology.  So it's not like they'll be able to claim it worked just like they planned regardless of the final numbers.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 06, 2009, 08:32:28 AM
Disagree. That's why they use the "save or create" phrasing. There's no way to actually measure how many jobs it actually does "save". Seems like they should have gone higher to something like 50 million jobs saved. Can't prove it otherwise. Then the the bill could be credited for saving the entire economy.


Jan: -598k
Dec revision: -524k to -577k
Nov revision: -584k to -597k

-1.72m last three months

Unemployment: 7.6%
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 06, 2009, 08:44:10 AM
Given those cheery numbers, it only makes sense that we take more time to argue over less than 2% of this thing as opposed to doing something now.

Also, those 36 GOP Senators should be rounded up and shot.  I literally can't believe that, count me in the Mandark and Krugman camp.  Those idiots are actually trying to push this thing over the cliff.  All tax cuts and no spending?  Jesus fucking Christ, you have to be shitting me.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 06, 2009, 09:38:32 AM
This should hopefully mark the end of the kumbaya horseshit bipartisan nonsense.  When one side of the aisle is so divorced from reality that they're arguing with a straight face that spending isn't stimulative, you can't work with them.  Can't legislate with them.  Can't do it!  I'm hoping that Frag wasn't right about Obama being too nice to Republicans but it sure was looking that way for a bit.  Good to hear him rip into these idiots now.

Honestly, they made several mistakes.  First was giving away too much to begin with.  Should have just opened up with half of the tax cuts they put in there so you can make a show of "giving ground" to the Republicans.  If you'll remember when the broad outlines of the package were made public, Republicans were all happy and surprised.  Then they figured since that was your opening offer, let's see what else we can wrangle.  The second big mistake was letting some easy targets make their way in and letting the Republicans get their bearings by bashing them.  Oh well.  Live and learn, Barry O.  Live and learn.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Beardo on February 06, 2009, 10:07:19 AM
If spending is stimulative then why is California going bankrupt?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 06, 2009, 10:21:02 AM
Because of George Bush and his cronies .. duh

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Beardo on February 06, 2009, 10:54:42 AM
Slightly off topic, but I got into an argument last night with a bleeding heart about environment issues. At the end of the argument he blammed all of China's envronment issues on china being "too libertarian."
I tried tellinh him that citizens in china have no right to object to their pallned economy or sue because of health reasons.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 06, 2009, 11:45:21 AM
Slightly off topic, but I got into an argument last night with a bleeding heart about environment issues. At the end of the argument he blammed all of China's envronment issues on china being "too libertarian."
I tried tellinh him that citizens in china have no right to object to their pallned economy or sue because of health reasons.


One time, I talked to you
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: The Fake Shemp on February 06, 2009, 11:45:57 AM
:lol
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 06, 2009, 01:30:04 PM
If spending is stimulative then why is California going bankrupt?

oh well, it was a good run. mandark annihilated
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 06, 2009, 02:49:59 PM
This is a prime example of what I'm talking about:  Tom Coburn (admittedly pretty far out there even for a Republican when it comes to economic shit) was just on my teevee saying that no wealth is created from government jobs, including military jobs. 

WHAT.  THE.  FUCK.

You seriously can't take people like that seriously, and as long as idiots keep electing them to office America will be worse off.  Just 24 hours of killing is all it would take...
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Fragamemnon on February 06, 2009, 02:54:17 PM
You seriously can't take people like that seriously, and as long as idiots keep electing them to office America will be worse off.  Just 24 hours of killing is all it would take...

amen to this. someone said it this morning that negotiating with republicans on this is sort of like trying to work out where to go for dinner when the other person won't eat anything but used tires and anthrax spores.

the first house and senate resolutions passed this year should have been an official declaration of the republican party as the 'enemy of the people'.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Rman on February 06, 2009, 02:58:19 PM
This is a prime example of what I'm talking about:  Tom Coburn (admittedly pretty far out there even for a Republican when it comes to economic shit) was just on my teevee saying that no wealth is created from government jobs, including military jobs. 

WHAT.  THE.  FUCK.

You seriously can't take people like that seriously, and as long as idiots keep electing them to office America will be worse off.  Just 24 hours of killing is all it would take...
Why do these people even run for office if they disdain government so much?  

*Sighs*

I'm just wondering why they are so emboldened after getting their ass kicked in the November elections.  I totally agree that Obama's reaching to other side was a failure as these guys are taking their marching orders from conservative talk radio booble heads.  
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Beardo on February 06, 2009, 03:25:34 PM
This is a prime example of what I'm talking about:  Tom Coburn (admittedly pretty far out there even for a Republican when it comes to economic shit) was just on my teevee saying that no wealth is created from government jobs, including military jobs. 

WHAT.  THE.  FUCK.

You seriously can't take people like that seriously, and as long as idiots keep electing them to office America will be worse off.  Just 24 hours of killing is all it would take...

Wealth isnt created that way. But at least you understand that wealth does have to be created in the first place.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 06, 2009, 03:28:43 PM
This is a prime example of what I'm talking about:  Tom Coburn (admittedly pretty far out there even for a Republican when it comes to economic shit) was just on my teevee saying that no wealth is created from government jobs, including military jobs. 

WHAT.  THE.  FUCK.

You seriously can't take people like that seriously, and as long as idiots keep electing them to office America will be worse off.  Just 24 hours of killing is all it would take...

Wealth isnt created that way. But at least you understand that wealth does have to be created in the first place.

You fatuous turd gobbler, wealth stands a FAR greater chance of being created by building an economy from the bottom up than it does from the top down.  Exhibit A:  The past 28 fucking years.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on February 06, 2009, 03:29:33 PM
Krugman being a man:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036789/vp/29051511#29051511 (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036789/vp/29051511#29051511)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Beardo on February 06, 2009, 03:30:10 PM
This is a prime example of what I'm talking about:  Tom Coburn (admittedly pretty far out there even for a Republican when it comes to economic shit) was just on my teevee saying that no wealth is created from government jobs, including military jobs. 

WHAT.  THE.  FUCK.

You seriously can't take people like that seriously, and as long as idiots keep electing them to office America will be worse off.  Just 24 hours of killing is all it would take...

Wealth isnt created that way. But at least you understand that wealth does have to be created in the first place.

You fatuous turd gobbler, wealth stands a FAR greater chance of being created by building an economy from the bottom up than it does from the top down.  Exhibit A:  The past 28 fucking years.

It worked out so great for all the planned economies in the 20th century.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on February 06, 2009, 03:32:18 PM
Care to share?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 06, 2009, 03:34:05 PM
Care to share?

Don't listen to him, he's a fucking idiot that doesn't realize that there was no middle class to speak of until the dreaded "socialist" laws and reforms of the devil FDR.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Beardo on February 06, 2009, 03:35:09 PM
Care to share?

Don't listen to him, he's a fucking idiot that doesn't realize that there was no middle class to speak of until the dreaded "socialist" laws and reforms of the devil FDR.

So where was the middle in the USSR? Go ahead and give me an example of a planned economy that lead to long term wealth.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Brehvolution on February 06, 2009, 03:38:30 PM
Quote
This is a prime example of what I'm talking about:  Tom Coburn (admittedly pretty far out there even for a Republican when it comes to economic shit) was just on my teevee saying that no wealth is created from government jobs, including military jobs.

Seriously?! With a straight face?!
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 06, 2009, 03:40:49 PM
Care to share?

Don't listen to him, he's a fucking idiot that doesn't realize that there was no middle class to speak of until the dreaded "socialist" laws and reforms of the devil FDR.

So where was the middle in the USSR? Go ahead and give me an example of a planned economy that lead to long term wealth.

Show ME where I'm advocating 100% govt. control of an economy?  Your proposing a false choice between two extremes without acknowledging that there IS a middle ground whatsoever.  Rigorous govt. oversight and regulation of the marketplace is pretty obviously necessary now, except for batshit insane people like you, John Thune who wants to make the stimulus nothing but tax cuts and Tom fucking Coburn.  The problem with you people is that you're just smart enough to speak.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 06, 2009, 03:57:08 PM
The drop in support for the stimulus package is apparently coming entirely from Republicans  :lol:
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d84/JohnCampanelli/ff0srphnpums706nuceldw.gif)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Beardo on February 06, 2009, 04:09:32 PM
http://cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=43192 (http://cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=43192)


Quote
Cher: Republican Rule Almost ‘Killed Me’

Grammy award-winning singer and Academy award-winning actress Cher told CNSNews.com that living under Republican rule almost “killed" her, and she does not understand why anyone would want to be a Republican.

She also said that President Barack Obama’s “intelligence” and “spirit” are “so great” he will be able to do “more than anyone could possibly do.”

I just think he’s totally the right person at this time in our history," she said.

 :lol



Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 06, 2009, 04:13:06 PM
Each sides have their idiots, but at least our idiots are legendary fag hags as opposed to cretins like Michelle Malkin and Joe the not Plumber.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eric P on February 06, 2009, 04:16:18 PM
Each sides have their idiots, but at least our idiots are legendary fag hags as opposed to cretins like Michelle Malkin and Joe the not Plumber.

Not Joe the Not Plumber
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 06, 2009, 04:54:07 PM
This is a prime example of what I'm talking about:  Tom Coburn (admittedly pretty far out there even for a Republican when it comes to economic shit) was just on my teevee saying that no wealth is created from government jobs, including military jobs. 

WHAT.  THE.  FUCK.

And he's absolutely correct. The money that goes to pay the salary of each additional government job has to be taken out of the economy in the form of taxation. That is not wealth producing.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: brawndolicious on February 06, 2009, 04:54:35 PM
The drop in support for the stimulus package is apparently coming entirely from Republicans  :lol:
don't you just need a simple majority to pass it?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 06, 2009, 04:55:24 PM
The drop in support for the stimulus package is apparently coming entirely from Republicans  :lol:
don't you just need a simple majority to pass it?
that poll was public opinion not politicians lol
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 06, 2009, 04:59:23 PM
 :drudge  
Source may be illsuited for screaming crybabies

 :drudge

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/61626.html (http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/61626.html)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: brawndolicious on February 06, 2009, 05:05:24 PM
that poll was public opinion not politicians lol
well that explains why there was 25% of two independants.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 06, 2009, 05:49:04 PM
CNN says there's a tentative deal reached on a $780B package.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 06, 2009, 05:59:26 PM
So nothing gets done until someone (Obama) caves or gets bribed? Franken as #59 would make this shit much easier.

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 06, 2009, 06:27:34 PM
This is a prime example of what I'm talking about:  Tom Coburn (admittedly pretty far out there even for a Republican when it comes to economic shit) was just on my teevee saying that no wealth is created from government jobs, including military jobs. 

WHAT.  THE.  FUCK.

And he's absolutely correct. The money that goes to pay the salary of each additional government job has to be taken out of the economy in the form of taxation. That is not wealth producing.

If Republicans can advocate letting the rich keep more of their money as a way of creating wealth when pretty much most evidence shows that they just sock it away somewhere, then by gawd I can advocate taking that money and using it to employ people instead.  You know what people do with the money the govt. pays them?  Buy shit, including houses, land  businesses and other forms of, I guess you could call it WEALTH.
Title: You weren't around to see what happened to FoC, were you?
Post by: Mandark on February 06, 2009, 06:39:39 PM
This is a prime example of what I'm talking about:  Tom Coburn (admittedly pretty far out there even for a Republican when it comes to economic shit) was just on my teevee saying that no wealth is created from government jobs, including military jobs. 

WHAT.  THE.  FUCK.

And he's absolutely correct. The money that goes to pay the salary of each additional government job has to be taken out of the economy in the form of taxation. That is not wealth producing.

Every private job has a salary paid for by money taken away from customers.

"But those customers are paying for a service or good.  That's different!"

Unlike taxpayers who don't use roads or benefit from police-enforced security.  Or breathe air.

There's a ton of empirical data to support public spending for growth purposes, especially for infrastructure and education.  As in every single successful modern economy has a significant public sector.  Even the ballyhooed capitalist success stories in Southeast Asia involved a ton of money spent on public schools and heavy government hand in the financial sector.


You guys ever stop and worry that there might be consequences from sprinting away from reality?  Real talk.
Title: Re: You weren't around to see what happened to FoC, were you?
Post by: Beardo on February 06, 2009, 07:13:00 PM
Every private job has a salary paid for by money taken away from customers.

But only because the customer can afford it. And never through force or threats (like taxes).


Quote
If Republicans can advocate letting the rich keep more of their money as a way of creating wealth when pretty much most evidence shows that they just sock it away somewhere, then by gawd I can advocate taking that money and using it to employ people instead.

What you are saying is that it is okay to take money from the people who create it and give it to people need it. Redistribution of wealth here we come.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Beardo on February 06, 2009, 07:17:40 PM
libertarians get to stop paying taxes but they can't use anything that taxes fund. 
???

What do libertarians have to do with anything?
Title: Re: You weren't around to see what happened to FoC, were you?
Post by: Beardo on February 06, 2009, 07:19:54 PM

There's a ton of empirical data to support public spending for growth purposes,

Empirical data like California.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on February 06, 2009, 07:36:13 PM
Pay no mind to the Republicans.

Republicans are doing what most should have expected of them: drag their feet, offer wildly unrealistic alternatives, and then spend the remaining time pissing and moaning about the current leadership.  If a majority of them is not needed to pass the bill, then fuck them.  Fuck the supporters as well because most of them aren't going to bring shit to the table.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on February 06, 2009, 07:58:40 PM
Every private job has a salary paid for by money taken away from customers.

But only because the customer can afford it. And never through force or threats (like taxes).

saying is that it is okay to take money from the people who create it and give it to people need it. Redistribution of wealth here we come.


car insurance isn't "coercion"? health insurance isn't "coercion"?

what about the act of creation gives you the right to something, anyhow? you're treading into philosophical waters well over your head, here.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 06, 2009, 08:50:12 PM
next person who bemoans "redistribution of wealth" gets dick slapp'd
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 06, 2009, 09:05:50 PM
bububut COPS!

and EDUCATIONATORS!

Thank gawd for them especially. They were the only sector (besides healthcare) to add jobs. At that rate we'll be out of this thing in no time - like 30 years maybe. Hell, why don't we all become teachers? Y'all down? I hear the pensions are great (if you plan on retiring in the next 3 months before they all implode).

Yes We Can!
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on February 06, 2009, 09:14:17 PM
sd self-annihilated
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 06, 2009, 09:15:06 PM
matt ryan must be in the hospital or something
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on February 06, 2009, 09:17:14 PM
http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=how_the_stimulus_screws_commuters

what a bunch of fucking morons.  civilization is doomed.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Brehvolution on February 06, 2009, 09:19:21 PM
No words SD.  :maf :nsfw
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 06, 2009, 09:24:19 PM
Only the American government could figure out how to make each job saved/created cost 250,000 dollars.

Let's start building the Colosseum now.


Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on February 06, 2009, 09:26:21 PM
only corporations could pay million dollar salaries and bonuses to socially-destructive failures

let's fuck and make bumper stickers together :interracial
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 06, 2009, 09:41:44 PM
Some dude already said that everything taken out in the Senate will be stuffed back in in the House anyway. Take it that means this will be back to $900B next week. Be sure to thank your future unborn grandkids for all their generosity. Obama called on all of us to sacrifice. His political prowess defies generations. He's able to reach far into the future and take that which is needed now. Gotta try to patch the leaking credit bubble in any way possible. What an amazing president. First time I've ever really been proud of my country. Honestly.

Yes We Did!

(sry...messed it up the last post)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on February 06, 2009, 09:43:31 PM
Quote
Only the American government could figure out how to make each job saved/created cost 250,000 dollars.

well, looking at the wikipedia entry for Ford for example, their costs per employee per 3 years appear to be 175.178B / 245k * 3 = $2.14 million / job.
Microsoft = 42.74B / 89,809 * 3 = $1.43M/job

but carry on
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on February 06, 2009, 09:44:30 PM
Some dude already said that everything taken out in the Senate will be stuffed back in in the House anyway. Take it that means this will be back to $900B next week. Be sure to thank your future unborn grandkids for all their generosity. Obama called on all of us to sacrifice. His political prowess defies generations. He's able to reach far into the future and take that which is needed now. Gotta try to patch the leaking credit bubble in any way possible. What an amazing president. First time I've ever really been proud of my country. Honestly.

Yes We Did!

(sry...messed it up the last post)

Wow...butthurt much?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on February 06, 2009, 09:46:30 PM
can libertarians even HAVE children

someone call science on this one
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 06, 2009, 09:48:10 PM
Hopefully Obama learns a valuable lesson from this, and in the future will just either shut the GOP out of negotiations from the get go or not think that he can make an initial offer to them that's reasonable and then expect them to bitch and whine their way into something absolutely craptacular as a "compromise".  Seriously, 42% tax cuts?  The LEAST efficient way to immediately stimulate the economy is... wait for it... TAX CUTS.  Even hiring some poor schmucks to sod the lawn of the National Mall would do more for the economy than a comparable amount of tax cuts.

So hopefully Barry O will get the message that these people are essentially distinguished mentally-challenged dinosaurs that have their heads shoved up their own asses.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on February 06, 2009, 09:50:00 PM
poor people and their stupid spending habits! why can't they just save like the wealthy!
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on February 06, 2009, 09:55:59 PM
Seriously SD, what the fuck, that was the most hyperbole-driven dreg I've read, even from you.  Cry moar.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 06, 2009, 09:56:49 PM
Quote
While details are still incomplete, it appears the package, as initially brought to the Senate floor, will be scaled back by about $82 billion in spending reductions and $25 billion in tax cuts. In addition, tax cuts approved on the Senate floor this week for car and home purchases would be modified, and the total bill then would be in the range of $800 billion.

Lost in the process—or scaled back significantly— are some important Democratic initiatives and at least $47 billion in promised aid to the states. New Pell Grant funding is largely preserved, but $16 billion in school construction funds would be cut, and increases for popular programs like Head Start cut in half.

Obama’s own agenda is not immune. The deal would trim back new funds committed for expanding broadband access and improving the electrical grid as well as investments in health information technology.

Specter’s role is striking since he is a senior member of the Senate Appropriations Committee, which helped write the bill. On the floor this week, Democrats like Iowa Sen. Tom Harkin helped him secure increased funding for the National Institutes of Health—a Specter priority. Yet in the talks, it appears that $5.8 billion in public health funds for the treatment of preventable diseases—a Harkin priority— would be severely cut or even wiped out.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0209/18508.html

Seems like the stuff that was cut could wind up in a more specific bill down the line right? Like improving the electric grid
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on February 06, 2009, 09:59:15 PM
What was his plan regarding the electric grid?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 06, 2009, 10:02:30 PM
Quote
Only the American government could figure out how to make each job saved/created cost 250,000 dollars.

well, looking at the wikipedia entry for Ford for example, their costs per employee per 3 years appear to be 175.178B / 245k * 3 = $2.14 million / job.
Microsoft = 42.74B / 89,809 * 3 = $1.43M/job

but carry on

I have no idea how you are deriving that number.

Well, very clever to cherry pick one of the most overpaid, unskilled professions in America. Let's try to be more disingenuous next time.

(http://bigthreeauto.procon.org/files/big%20three/perry_wages.gif)

That number factors in every aspect of employee compensation. So a 3 year total would be more like 450k.


Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 06, 2009, 10:05:58 PM
Yep...couldn't figure out how he got those numbers either.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on February 06, 2009, 10:08:20 PM
uh, I showed you my work!  Total expenses ( = revenue - net income) / number of employees = cost per employee.  Which is not the same thing as compensation.

Quote
Well, very clever to cherry pick one of the most overpaid, unskilled professions in America. Let's try to be more disingenuous next time.

I'm just picking random companies that pop into my head.
Procter & Gamble = $1.55M
ok, Walmart is only $558k
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 06, 2009, 10:13:30 PM
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff156/siamesedreamer7/debt_gdp.png)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on February 06, 2009, 10:16:30 PM
You're just unbelievable.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on February 06, 2009, 10:16:56 PM
I don't know anything about the auto mfgs but my company sent a few servicemen and linemen to work on that ice storm.  They get such benefits like double time, $54 per meal (if they don't spend it all, they can just pocket it), and man, after finding out some of their yearly incomes, I thought about switching professions.  Some higher end union labor employees can make $150,000/yr
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 06, 2009, 10:18:50 PM
Come on man, it's apples and oranges here ... You're talking about companies that have to pay for R&D, marketing, lawyers, and countless other hidden expenses from governmental regulations that these "make up" jobs don't even have to incur.

I was also being generous with crediting this plan for "saving" or creating 3 million jobs .. since it's not a number that will be 100% certifiable anyways ... nor do we truly know the final cost of this as gross  government overruns are the standard course for all of this kind of stuff. This plan could end up 20-30 percent more than they are currently stating today.


Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on February 06, 2009, 10:22:49 PM
Thanks to infrastructure improvement, businesses are going to have to eat a lot of money moving underground cables, piping, etc. to any new right-of-ways.  That or pass the costs onto consumers, whatever businesses can get away with.

Unless that is Obama's plan: to stimulate the economy by creating new contractor firms to be able to do all this stuff
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on February 06, 2009, 10:26:06 PM
Quote
Come on man, it's apples and oranges here ... You're talking about companies that have to pay for R&D, marketing, lawyers, and countless other hidden expenses from governmental regulations that these "make up" jobs don't even have to incur.

why don't they have to incur them?  as far as I can see, there's no reason a job shouldn't have the same expenses associated with it whether it's being done in the private or public sector.  obviously, things like marketing carry a somewhat different meaning, but they're still there in some sense.

anyway, my point was just that dividing numbers by other numbers isn't necessarily going to yield meaningful results.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Brehvolution on February 06, 2009, 10:59:49 PM
Quote
You're talking about companies that have to pay for R&D, marketing, lawyers, and countless other hidden expenses

Which should account for more than half that cost. I'm pretty sure he was just trying to prove a comparable average. It's definately eye opening considering the average.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on February 06, 2009, 11:22:56 PM
Quote
I'm pretty sure he was just trying to prove a comparable average.

mostly I was just trying to "prove" that costs / # jobs = misleading
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Beardo on February 07, 2009, 12:32:16 AM
Quote
Only the American government could figure out how to make each job saved/created cost 250,000 dollars.

well, looking at the wikipedia entry for Ford for example, their costs per employee per 3 years appear to be 175.178B / 245k * 3 = $2.14 million / job.
Microsoft = 42.74B / 89,809 * 3 = $1.43M/job

but carry on

But if ford fails the american people dont foot the bill...
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on February 07, 2009, 12:39:04 AM
mmkay
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on February 07, 2009, 01:38:44 AM
bububut COPS!

and EDUCATIONATORS!

Thank gawd for them especially. They were the only sector (besides healthcare) to add jobs. At that rate we'll be out of this thing in no time - like 30 years maybe. Hell, why don't we all become teachers? Y'all down? I hear the pensions are great (if you plan on retiring in the next 3 months before they all implode).

Yes We Can!

Lordy lordy, butthurt past the point of coherence.  Not that he had terribly far to go.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Before you accuse everyone else of being a crybaby for pointing at you and laughing, sd, understand that's as subtle and effective a reversal as Synbios executing a judo throw.
[close]
Title: Re: You weren't around to see what happened to FoC, were you?
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 07, 2009, 01:50:47 AM
Every private job has a salary paid for by money taken away from customers.

But only because the customer can afford it. And never through force or threats (like taxes).


Quote
If Republicans can advocate letting the rich keep more of their money as a way of creating wealth when pretty much most evidence shows that they just sock it away somewhere, then by gawd I can advocate taking that money and using it to employ people instead.

What you are saying is that it is okay to take money from the people who create it and give it to people need it. Redistribution of wealth here we come.


Um actually you were talking about giving it to people who provide services to society and PROTECT FREEDOMMMMM overseas.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: The Fake Shemp on February 07, 2009, 01:51:19 AM
To be fair, as someone with several belts in Judo, I don't think that's even possible.
Title: Shhhhhh! That's the point! Stop giving away my punchlines!
Post by: Mandark on February 07, 2009, 02:00:17 AM
You know, I thought there was an understanding.  In light of the crash, nobody would make blanket statements about the superiority and efficiency of private markets.

No way that stuff can pass the laugh test any more, if it ever did.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on February 07, 2009, 02:17:09 AM
so did the $15k/home subsidy get in?  and who's responsible?  and what forms of torture is he likely to be especially sensitive to?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on February 07, 2009, 02:31:31 AM
They need 60.  With Franken and Ted Kennedy out, they have 57, assuming all the dems go for it.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on February 07, 2009, 02:57:36 AM
If this fails I will flip more than the time the first bailout bill failed.
Title: The Mossad is no joke, son.
Post by: Mandark on February 07, 2009, 03:58:34 AM
so did the $15k/home subsidy get in?  and who's responsible?  and what forms of torture is he likely to be especially sensitive to?

Probably; industry lobbies via the GOP and blue dogs; under the fingernails is a really sensitive spot.

When did they stop making Senators actually filibuster when they block cloture?  Used to be considered a somewhat extraordinary tactic but now it's just a given that something needs 60 votes to pass the Senate.

Oh, and have any of the centrist group explained the actual logic behind the cuts they're demanding?  The preliminary list I saw looked dumb.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on February 07, 2009, 04:02:34 AM
This seems as good a place to ask as any. Is Mandark actually a member of Mossad, or was that a joke?

Yep.  And I'm a member of Propaganda Due.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 07, 2009, 04:13:10 AM
This seems as good a place to ask as any. Is Mandark actually a member of Mossad, or was that a joke?

Actually he's a janitor at Oral Roberts
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on February 07, 2009, 04:17:09 AM
Man, I can't imagine the torment Oral Roberts went through in elementary and high school due to his name.   I guess he's kinda the one person with which you could have Oral sex without using your mouth.
Title: Oral Roberts vs. Ball State
Post by: Mandark on February 07, 2009, 04:18:51 AM
I'm actually director of the Bohemian Grove.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on February 07, 2009, 04:57:11 AM
i'm really, really, really, really unhappy about this situation.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on February 07, 2009, 05:01:58 AM
Nelson/Collins memo on stimulus cuts.

http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/stimulus-package/latest-cuts-to-the-stim-package-head-start-child-nutrition-food-stamps-public-transit/

Total Reductions: $80 billion

Eliminations:

Head Start, Education for the Disadvantaged, School improvement, Child Nutrition, Firefighters, Transportation Security Administration, Coast Guard, Prisons, COPS Hiring, Violence Against Women, NASA, NSF, Western Area Power Administration, CDC, Food Stamps

*****************************

Reductions:

Public Transit $3.4 billion, School Construction $60 billion

*****************************

Increases:

Defense operations and procurement, STAG Grants, Brownfields, Additional transportation funding






What the FUCK, guys?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on February 07, 2009, 06:06:46 AM
i'm sort of agnostic about the whole notion of stimulus.  Keynesian economics never made much sense to me.  my main concern is that if they're going to be spending a ton of money, they spend it on things that are actually worthwhile, not on further propping up excessive house/car/highway construction, financial elites, corporate elites, etc. 
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 07, 2009, 08:30:50 AM
Rachel lays down the ether on the Retardicans. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#29062335)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: The Fake Shemp on February 07, 2009, 09:39:27 AM
Has nobody told the Republicans that tax cuts won't stimulate the economy if none of us have jobs to pay taxes with?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Beardo on February 07, 2009, 10:26:31 AM
Has nobody told the Republicans that tax cuts won't stimulate the economy if none of us have jobs to pay taxes with?

So we shouldn't cut taxes because some people dont work and they need the money the most?

So instead of rewarding the people with jobs wish should punish people who work and reward those who do not. Yeah that makes sense.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: The Fake Shemp on February 07, 2009, 10:42:28 AM
Has nobody told the Republicans that tax cuts won't stimulate the economy if none of us have jobs to pay taxes with?

So we shouldn't cut taxes because some people dont work and they need the money the most?

So instead of rewarding the people with jobs wish should punish people who work and reward those who do not. Yeah that makes sense.

Perhaps you don't understand this - but it's not "some" people, it's a lot of people.  And it's mostly lower middle class and impoverished folks, whom if their numbers continue to rise, will be unable to line the pockets of the upper middle class and wealthy.

So - duh! - it is in our best interests to get these folks jobs.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 07, 2009, 10:48:27 AM
Who's butthurt? Not me.

This thing was always a done deal. I'm actually kinda pumped because it virtually ensures Obama's tenure will only be one term.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Beardo on February 07, 2009, 10:51:24 AM
Has nobody told the Republicans that tax cuts won't stimulate the economy if none of us have jobs to pay taxes with?

So we shouldn't cut taxes because some people dont work and they need the money the most?

So instead of rewarding the people with jobs wish should punish people who work and reward those who do not. Yeah that makes sense.

Perhaps you don't understand this - but it's not "some" people, it's a lot of people.  And it's mostly lower middle class and impoverished folks, whom if their numbers continue to rise, will be unable to line the pockets of the upper middle class and wealthy.

So - duh! - it is in our best interests to get these folks jobs.

Class warfare go!!!
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 07, 2009, 11:07:52 AM
Quote
Fannie Mae, the mortgage-finance company under U.S. government control, will loosen rules for homeowners seeking to lower their loan payments by refinancing.

Fannie Mae will drop some credit-score requirements, reduce income-documentation standards and waive the need for appraisals in some cases, according to a notice yesterday to lenders posted on the Washington-based company’s Web site. The changes apply to loans that the company owns or guarantees.

The company, which accounts for more than 40 percent of the $12 trillion in U.S. residential mortgage debt, is seeking to break a “logjam” in refinancing and allow more homeowners to take advantage of near-record low interest rates, according to Brian Faith, a Fannie Mae spokesman. The increased flexibility for consumers isn’t large enough to significantly harm mortgage- bond investors and mortgage insurers, analysts said.


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aTu9HA5cZgQ4&refer=home (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aTu9HA5cZgQ4&refer=home)

What could go wrong?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 07, 2009, 11:17:47 AM
Who's butthurt? Not me.

This thing was always a done deal. I'm actually kinda pumped because it virtually ensures Obama's tenure will only be one term.

(http://barfblog.foodsafety.ksu.edu/uploads/image/sarah_palin_hockey.jpg)

Not so fast, my friend!
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 07, 2009, 11:20:25 AM
DIE!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 07, 2009, 11:36:27 AM
If she's your nominee, you're gonna get your asses whupped again 2008 style, at least in the Presidential.  And you know this.  Also, if the economy rebounds even slightly (and since history and logic dictates it will to some extent) it's gonna be tough for you guys.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 07, 2009, 11:48:23 AM
If she's your nominee, you're gonna get your asses whupped again 2008 style, at least in the Presidential.  And you know this.  Also, if the economy rebounds even slightly (and since history and logic dictates it will to some extent) it's gonna be tough for you guys.
Pretty much. The public rewards (and punishes) their government based on the economy regardless if they deserve it or not, and  if it improves at all then Obama has a 1996 style easy re-election waiting for him.

I honestly can't see how sd sees Obama as some sort of obvious one termer, the only way that is possible is if the economy continues to be in shambles for a whole fucking four more years, which is near impossible.

The fact the economy began to fall apart a year before he got elected and not in the middle of his first time was a miracle for him politically.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Crushed on February 07, 2009, 11:54:59 AM
Has nobody told the Republicans that tax cuts won't stimulate the economy if none of us have jobs to pay taxes with?

So we shouldn't cut taxes because some people dont work and they need the money the most?

So instead of rewarding the people with jobs wish should punish people who work and reward those who do not. Yeah that makes sense.

Perhaps you don't understand this - but it's not "some" people, it's a lot of people.  And it's mostly lower middle class and impoverished folks, whom if their numbers continue to rise, will be unable to line the pockets of the upper middle class and wealthy.

So - duh! - it is in our best interests to get these folks jobs.

Class warfare go!!!

(http://i43.tinypic.com/jgtklj.gif)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 07, 2009, 11:59:12 AM
I honestly think Palin will have a hard time getting past New Hampshire.

And what gives both of you any confidence the economy will be "good" by 2012?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 07, 2009, 12:02:46 PM
I honestly think Palin will have a hard time getting past New Hampshire.

And what gives both of you any confidence the economy will be "good" by 2012?
The fact the economy doesn't tend to fall apart for over 4 years straight?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 07, 2009, 12:11:15 PM
That's not a very good argument when the comparisons are to 1929 and 1873.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 07, 2009, 12:11:38 PM
I honestly think Palin will have a hard time getting past New Hampshire.

And what gives both of you any confidence the economy will be "good" by 2012?

Huckabee won Iowa, lots of fundie dingbats out there.  She'll cake walk to an easy South Carolina win, that's 2 out of the first 4.  You guys are in a pretty terrible position- you have no really credible party leaders/candidates, and your ideas suck.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Beardo on February 07, 2009, 12:12:05 PM
Palin wont be the nominee
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 07, 2009, 12:14:18 PM
Palin wont be the nominee

Probably not, but you guys don't have anyone credible to BE the nominee.  Plus the states that a Dem has won over the past 5 general elections add up to 240something electoral votes, gonna be tough for you wankers to do anything about it.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Beardo on February 07, 2009, 12:24:42 PM
Palin wont be the nominee

Probably not, but you guys don't have anyone credible to BE the nominee.  Plus the states that a Dem has won over the past 5 general elections add up to 240something electoral votes, gonna be tough for you wankers to do anything about it.

I really think there is gonna be something akin to a mini 1994 during the next cycle. Especially after this whole stimulus bill debacle.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on February 07, 2009, 12:25:44 PM
peggy noonan's wsj meltdown is even etter than sd's!

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123388255500354969.html
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 07, 2009, 12:26:10 PM
Palin wont be the nominee

Probably not, but you guys don't have anyone credible to BE the nominee.  Plus the states that a Dem has won over the past 5 general elections add up to 240something electoral votes, gonna be tough for you wankers to do anything about it.

I really think there is gonna be something akin to a mini 1994 during the next cycle. Especially after this whole stimulus bill debacle.
Yeah and 1994 didn't stop Clinton from being re-elected now did it?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 07, 2009, 12:26:37 PM
Well polling shows that Dems and Independents are siding with the Dems on this 'debacle' and that 80% of Americans expect the bailout to take over a year to show results. So when is this blowback going to happen?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 07, 2009, 12:29:24 PM
Well polling shows that Dems and Independents are siding with the Dems on this 'debacle' and that 80% of Americans expect the bailout to take over a year to show results. So when is this blowback going to happen?

After Ronald Reagan rides in on a unicorn and farts rainbows of gold at the Democrats.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on February 07, 2009, 12:31:32 PM
there are many stages to grief, friends, and libertardians still see breath in the corpse of laissez-faire economics. we call this stage "denial". we're getting to "anger" pretty quick, though, so hey: progress!
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on February 07, 2009, 12:31:39 PM
Wow sd, only two weeks into his first term and your already convinced he's a one termer.  You're distinguished mentally-challenged.

You do know that public support is fairly high for this, right?  
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Beardo on February 07, 2009, 12:31:44 PM
Palin wont be the nominee

Probably not, but you guys don't have anyone credible to BE the nominee.  Plus the states that a Dem has won over the past 5 general elections add up to 240something electoral votes, gonna be tough for you wankers to do anything about it.

I really think there is gonna be something akin to a mini 1994 during the next cycle. Especially after this whole stimulus bill debacle.
Yeah and 1994 didn't stop Clinton from being re-elected now did it?

Is Ross Perot coming back?


Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 07, 2009, 12:35:55 PM
Palin wont be the nominee

Probably not, but you guys don't have anyone credible to BE the nominee.  Plus the states that a Dem has won over the past 5 general elections add up to 240something electoral votes, gonna be tough for you wankers to do anything about it.

I really think there is gonna be something akin to a mini 1994 during the next cycle. Especially after this whole stimulus bill debacle.
Yeah and 1994 didn't stop Clinton from being re-elected now did it?

Is Ross Perot coming back?




:rofl
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 07, 2009, 12:38:07 PM
Palin wont be the nominee

Probably not, but you guys don't have anyone credible to BE the nominee.  Plus the states that a Dem has won over the past 5 general elections add up to 240something electoral votes, gonna be tough for you wankers to do anything about it.

I really think there is gonna be something akin to a mini 1994 during the next cycle. Especially after this whole stimulus bill debacle.
Yeah and 1994 didn't stop Clinton from being re-elected now did it?

Is Ross Perot coming back?

Dur dur dur. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._presidential_election,_1996)

Clinton 49.2% 379 evs
Dole 40.7% 159 evs
Perot 8.4% 0 evs

I think you're thinking of maybe 92.  Either that or you're an idiot.  Or both.  Probably both.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 07, 2009, 12:38:56 PM
Palin wont be the nominee

Probably not, but you guys don't have anyone credible to BE the nominee.  Plus the states that a Dem has won over the past 5 general elections add up to 240something electoral votes, gonna be tough for you wankers to do anything about it.

I really think there is gonna be something akin to a mini 1994 during the next cycle. Especially after this whole stimulus bill debacle.
Yeah and 1994 didn't stop Clinton from being re-elected now did it?

Is Ross Perot coming back?



You are a fucking idiot.

Clinton - 49.24%
Dole - 40.71%
Perot - 8.40%

Give Dole 100% of the Perot voters (which in reality would not have happened, a lot would have not vote and a decent chunk based on polling would vote Clinton) and CLINTON STILL WINS.

Idiot.

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Barry Egan on February 07, 2009, 12:40:53 PM
lol
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 07, 2009, 12:41:31 PM
Even if it was 1992, the point is debatable
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on February 07, 2009, 12:42:56 PM
There is no logic in such debate.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on February 07, 2009, 12:43:42 PM
beardo decimated

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 07, 2009, 12:44:17 PM
beardo decimated

And you KNOW you're talking out of your ass if it's me and fucking CHEEBS doing the decimating.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 07, 2009, 12:45:28 PM
We won't be seeing him for a page or two
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 07, 2009, 12:47:02 PM
And he can't play the "I was talking about 1992!" card either because he brought it up in the context of 1994's impact on Clinton's re-election, he is just stupid.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on February 07, 2009, 12:48:21 PM
tears trace the rhomboid jawline of ayn rand's decrepit spectre :'(
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 07, 2009, 12:51:42 PM
58/42 spending/tax cuts? WTF

eliminated food stamps? wat

Obama better veto this bs
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on February 07, 2009, 12:56:25 PM
He won't, that would certainly be a death sentence for his term.  He's passing anything.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on February 07, 2009, 01:03:32 PM
it doesn't look so bad except for the house and car subsidies, which make me fucking livid.  talk about "expecting relief from tired old theories".  is there any chance that this stuff will at least be dialed back to the House version, if not eliminated?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 07, 2009, 01:07:11 PM
What's the longest period of time for single party control since WWII?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on February 07, 2009, 01:07:31 PM
I'm not sure, rec.

What makes me angry is the education cutbacks.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Beardo on February 07, 2009, 01:11:57 PM
I'm not sure, rec.

What makes me angry is the education cutbacks.

Why?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 07, 2009, 01:12:55 PM
What's the longest period of time for single party control since WWII?
Didnt Democrats control everything under LBJ?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on February 07, 2009, 01:16:09 PM
I'm not sure, rec.

What makes me angry is the education cutbacks.

Why?

Because education and its growth is more important and seemingly more effective to me than pipe-dream business tax cuts.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 07, 2009, 01:17:08 PM
I'm not sure, rec.

What makes me angry is the education cutbacks.

Why?

How about you acknowledge your last handful of crackpot claims before opening up some new ones? Why do you post here?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Beardo on February 07, 2009, 01:19:35 PM
I'm not sure, rec.

What makes me angry is the education cutbacks.

Why?

Because education and its growth is more important and seemingly more effective to me than pipe-dream business tax cuts.

And if we dont pile more money into it we will all the sudden be uneducated? It's not like it's a do or die situation. Public schools and colleges aren't going to close down all of the sudden if they don't receive million in federal money.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 07, 2009, 01:21:02 PM
sounds like you need to read up on the Detroit public school system situation

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 07, 2009, 01:21:14 PM
I'm not sure, rec.

What makes me angry is the education cutbacks.

Why?

Because education and its growth is more important and seemingly more effective to me than pipe-dream business tax cuts.

And if we dont pile more money into it we will all the sudden be uneducated? It's not like it's a do or die situation. Public schools and colleges aren't going to close down all of the sudden if they don't receive million in federal money.
Nice job ignoring all the posts that proved you wrong.  :lol
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 07, 2009, 01:22:26 PM
I bet he can do that 500 thousand times this month.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 07, 2009, 01:23:58 PM
I'm not sure, rec.

What makes me angry is the education cutbacks.

Why?

Because if we had more money for education, perhaps stupid Republicans could do math and remember history.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Beardo on February 07, 2009, 01:30:10 PM
By your same argument we should put more money into national defense. After all more money = more national security. Actually we should just give everyone in the country $1,000,000 dollars. I bet that would stimulate the economy.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on February 07, 2009, 01:31:55 PM
:hurr
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Beardo on February 07, 2009, 01:34:59 PM
My plan is brilliant. Think about it. If everyone in the country had a million dollars then we could all afford to get a lot of things. And nothing stimulates the economy more than buying lots of things. It's brilliant and foolproof and has the exact same effect of the proposed stimulus bill. The difference is I just propose we eliminate the middle man (crappy government burocrats) and give the money straight to the people. Of course we will have to find a way to give everyone the fair amount. I propose a need-base system where people who need the money get the most.

OMG I should be an economist for Obama.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 07, 2009, 01:35:42 PM
 :hurr
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Beardo on February 07, 2009, 01:36:45 PM
Dont hate just because I thought of it first.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Crushed on February 07, 2009, 01:36:53 PM
:hurr
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 07, 2009, 01:38:28 PM
I don't think this stimulus plan will really have a negative effect on Obama. He has tried his best and he has come off good in the media while doing it.

The real turds are the House of Reps. They are the ones who overshot their load with the initial plan and slowly backpeddled into this odd, monsterous compromise bill that no one seems happy with. They are already riding historic lows in approval rating and they are the next up for re-election in 2010. Could be a blood letting.


Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Beardo on February 07, 2009, 01:39:11 PM
 :hurr
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 07, 2009, 01:39:53 PM
:hurr

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v125/ToxicAdam/fuglylowrider.gif)

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Beardo on February 07, 2009, 01:41:22 PM
 :lol
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: cool breeze on February 07, 2009, 01:42:09 PM
 :lol
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on February 07, 2009, 01:45:02 PM
Oh wow.  :lol
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Brehvolution on February 07, 2009, 01:55:50 PM
 :lol
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on February 07, 2009, 01:59:48 PM
this thread just took a turn for the awesome
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 07, 2009, 02:09:57 PM
TA with the FRAWRESS VICTOLY
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on February 07, 2009, 02:13:57 PM
Quote
Schumer signaled his interest in removing one obstacle — a Senate amendment from Johnny Isakson, R-Ga., that would double a credit for home purchases to a maximum of $15,000 and allow all home buyers, not just first-time purchasers, to take advantage of it.

The $19 billion amendment, which was adopted Feb. 4 by voice vote in the Senate, is “way excessive for what is needed,” Schumer said, because it would allow people to benefit from trading in one home for another.

well, that's something.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on February 07, 2009, 02:22:22 PM
lol, this is cute: http://www.newssun.com/opinion/col-0208-Stimulus

Quote
Realtors across the country have been advocating for a comprehensive stimulus package to reduce housing inventory, make mortgages more affordable and available, and help deserving families refinance or modify their loans so they can keep their home.

The 650-plus members of the Heartland Association of Realtors and the Lake Placid Board of Realtors are committed to these goals and to getting something done immediately. There can be no doubt that stabilizing home prices and restoring confidence in the housing market are critical to the recovery of the economy here in Highlands County.

It is vitally important for President Barack Obama and Congress to complete a bipartisan stimulus package focused on housing. The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 is a good start but much more needs to be done. It is imperative that the federal government act immediately encourage homebuyers to re-enter the market and to stop families from losing their homes to foreclosure.

"It is vitally important for President Barack Obama and Congress to complete a bipartisan stimulus package focused on giving us money"
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Beardo on February 07, 2009, 02:27:57 PM
Yes, clearly the only way to avoid another housing collapse is to make homes even easy to get.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on February 07, 2009, 02:30:41 PM
,
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on February 07, 2009, 02:38:55 PM
Article: Realtors want more money from the stimulus.

EB1: OMG THE AUDACITY!  WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE OMG
EB2: <Generic nonchalant repartee>
EB3: <Sarcastic rejoinder goes here>
EB4: <2003-era meme regarding sedition>
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on February 07, 2009, 02:47:35 PM
what u sayin
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 07, 2009, 03:58:46 PM
Only took...what?...19 days for politics to enter into Obama's DoJ.

Hopenchange!
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on February 07, 2009, 07:08:19 PM
I don't think this stimulus plan will really have a negative effect on Obama. He has tried his best and he has come off good in the media while doing it.

The real turds are the House of Reps. They are the ones who overshot their load with the initial plan and slowly backpeddled into this odd, monsterous compromise bill that no one seems happy with. They are already riding historic lows in approval rating and they are the next up for re-election in 2010. Could be a blood letting.

Nah, the House Reps had a pretty good bill that was in line with what Obama was proposing.  Remember that the original version of the Senate bill was more expensive than the House one (because it included an AMT patch).

The problem* is that the people forcing and negotiating the compromise in the Senate seem to be doing it just for the sake of doing it.  There's really no apparent logic or empirical basis for what they're targeting.  It's a total hodgepodge.

The approval rating of the House overall means very little.  It was rock bottom last cycle when the Dems were in control and they won more seats.  People always like their local official way more than the institution as a whole.



*The actual problem is that a few dozen Republican Senators and pretty much all the GOP House Reps are married to an ideology that's mutually exclusive with reality.  But that seems like such a fact of nature at this point it's hard to blame them.  They're too dumb to be moral agents at this point.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on February 07, 2009, 07:12:09 PM
Quote
  People always like their local official way more than the institution as a whole.

I always thought this was logically inconsistent, but I guess it can actually make sense in a game theory sort of way.  if everyone's pulling for the interests of their own constituents and screwing the common interest, then each district's representative will be individually beneficial to them, but the institution will be detrimental.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on February 07, 2009, 07:30:19 PM
Even though that seems to assume a rational, informed public (haw haw haw) it sounds about right.

Plus a deadlocked Congress won't please anyone, because it's not producing liberal or conservative legislation.  Even if a vast majority of people disapprove of Congress, that won't produce a swing unless they disapprove for the same reasons.

And people are just more apt to think well of individuals than of big organizations.  Almost everyone rates their own kids' school as better than the state of the American education system.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 07, 2009, 07:51:52 PM
[youtube=560,345]qc1FrY-m3xw[/youtube]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qc1FrY-m3xw

Senator David Vitter (R-Whorehouses of Louisiana and DC) gets absolutely raped by Dick Durbin.  These guys are so inept I wonder how they tie their shoes.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on February 07, 2009, 08:06:48 PM
Oh gawd.

It does give me an excuse to post this, though:

Quote from: Professor Prole
i wanna cut a dance mix based on mccain campaign samples and smear memes

AYERS-ACORN-REZKO-WRIGHT!
AYERS-ACORN-REZKO-WRIGHT!
GONNA MAKE YOU DANCE ALL NIGHT!
AYERS-ACORN-REZKO-WRIGHT!

rapid high hats, chorus pedal

SOCIALIST! TERRORIST!
NOT A CITIZEN OF THE US!
SOCIALIST! TERRORIST!
NOT A CITIZEN OF THE US!

(cool hand luke sample: "what we have here is a failure to communicate")

boom-pish-boom-pish-boom-pish
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on February 07, 2009, 08:32:18 PM
i liked the Presidential montage ransom video in Die Hard 4.  it was about the only bit I liked, did they steal it from somewhere?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Fragamemnon on February 07, 2009, 08:34:14 PM
I really want to see Vitter have to answer in detail about his diaper fetish allegations in a Republican primary in Louisana. It just boggles the mind that not only would he be so stupid as to go whoring in the superconnected D.C., but that he'd also push his fetishes on the whores to boot.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 07, 2009, 10:08:30 PM
Hey guys, guess who just weighed in the Senate compromise? (http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/07/stimulus.paul/index.html)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v180/Triumph/ronpaulblimp.jpg)

Aw yeah.  Here's the money quote: 

Quote from: Ron Paul
Paul said that he agrees that the economy needs to be stimulated but that he doesn't think the federal government should be doing it.

"Sure, we want more spending," Paul said. "We need a lot more spending in the economy, but it has to be done by market forces, by individuals, by businesses making proper decisions."
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on February 07, 2009, 10:13:17 PM
Ron Paul kinda reminds me of the Heaven's Gate cult leader.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 07, 2009, 10:13:55 PM
He reminds me of the Raelians.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on February 07, 2009, 10:17:12 PM
He reminds me of the Raelians.

Raelians piss me off because by using that name they kinda piss all over The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway, which is otherwise awesome.

This is Rael:

(http://mitkadem.homestead.com/files/genesis_peter_gabriel.jpg)

This is NOT Rael:

(http://www.orbit.zkm.de/files/orbit/Ufo-Cult_RaelBrigitte03.jpg)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 07, 2009, 10:26:14 PM
Hey guys, I know, why don't we just do a little minor course correction on this here recession?  No reason to spend OMIGOD A TRILLYUN DOLLARS HYUCK HYUCK AMIRITE?

(http://images2.dailykos.com/images/user/14898/jobsrecessions.jpg)

Oh.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Crushed on February 07, 2009, 10:30:58 PM
Scare monger! *spends entire political career sowing fear and hatred*
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 07, 2009, 10:34:53 PM
The Shrill One weighs in on the Senate compromise. (http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/02/07/what-the-centrists-have-wrought/)

It's pretty short and does a pretty good job of outlining why this isn't gonna work too well. 
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 07, 2009, 11:05:31 PM
Meh, most of the left must realize that what has been cut out can be added in at a later date. It's not like this year won't have a bonanza of bad news to present new opportunities to slip that stuff in.

In the end, we are only talking about a 10 percent cut here.


Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: y2kev on February 07, 2009, 11:07:30 PM
Isn't most of this stuff just going to be put into appropriations throughout the year?

also has Betray Us had his whine fest in public yet
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 07, 2009, 11:09:32 PM
Meh, most of the left must realize that what has been cut out can be added in at a later date. It's not like this year won't have a bonanza of bad news to present new opportunities to slip that stuff in.

In the end, we are only talking about a 10 percent cut here.

What's galling is that they cut the most ACTUALLY STIMULATIVE stuff (food stamps, unemployment benefits, aid to states, infrastructure) to make way for a stupid AMT cut that will disproportionately benefit the wealthiest.  And the guy who proposed the AMT cut (Grassley) will almost certainly not vote for the thing in the end.

Obama should have grown some balls and made them filibuster.  Lose a thousand on the dow in one day and see if these idiots are ready to pull their fucking heads out of the sand or not.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 07, 2009, 11:09:50 PM
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff156/siamesedreamer7/jobsrecessions.jpg)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Brehvolution on February 07, 2009, 11:14:25 PM
Typical short sighted Republican thinking.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on February 07, 2009, 11:17:40 PM
Respectfully, I believe everyone here completely missed it. Y'all have just seen the future of the Republican Party. She fucking nailed it.

It was important for the REPs to bring to light the lack of experience of Obama - PARTICULARLY because of how the DEMs (and the entire MSM) portrayed her lack of experience. Do y'all seriously think Obama's experience in any way compares to her's? If so, please please try to articulate it with any semblence of substance. His voting record is "present" and his "change driven" legislation leadership doesn't exit. The comment about his two memoirs with no actual bills or laws was utterly damning.

Palin made an incredible appeal to middle America. She did it with her small town commentary, about Obama saying one thing to Scranton and another to San Francisco. She did it by speaking to her husband's union membership and her motherhood. Seriously, if not Sarah Palin, who exactly could have achieved this for the REPs at this point?

Let's understand, they were floundering. They had no brand (deservedly). Somehow, with the selection of Palin, McCain has completely turned this election around.

Frankly, y'all couldn't be more wrong in your assessment.

Obama may still win. Hell, I have $200 on it with my cross burning brother. But, this was...transformative.

I am in love.

Touché.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 07, 2009, 11:20:28 PM
(http://mooregroup.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/ether.jpg)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 08, 2009, 12:15:13 AM
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff156/siamesedreamer7/jobsrecessions.jpg)

Why isn't the 70's and 80's recession included in this chart? God, I hate liberals.




Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on February 08, 2009, 01:19:09 AM
Probably because the recoveries before 1990 were a lot faster than the ones after, at least in terms of employment.

Remember the term "jobless recovery" became popular to describe what happened in the early 90's.  The same thing happened again in the early 00's.  Even as GDP growth went back to positive, there was a ton of slack in the labor market.

I've seen economists float the idea several times over the last 4-5 years that we may have moved into a different era in terms of what to expect from recessions.  Including the pre-1990 cycles would make this one look even more dire than that chart does.  I think I saw one on a blog a couple days ago...




edit:  Found it. (http://angrybear.blogspot.com/2009_02_01_angrybear_archive.html)


(http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/9599/clipboard02xu8.jpg)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Brehvolution on February 08, 2009, 01:31:26 AM
If Obama can just make it look like the illegals work is tied to manufacturing, like Bush did with fast food workers, then all should look fine on paper.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 08, 2009, 02:45:16 AM
Ahh thanks for that Mandark. Interesting that each recovery has gotten progressively worse.

I found a link that lists all the job losses/gains for each month (going back to the depression era). It shows the percentage lost/gained versus the total jobs of that time. Gives you a bit of insight into the past and how bad things were at some points in time, since raw numbers can be deceiving when comparing eras.

A positive is actually a negative in this chart: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pRjgr4UnWRpA4b2Hh0Dq4Rw




Also, WTF about this?:

http://www.politico.com/blogs/michaelcalderone/0209/Reporter_restrained_after_Panetta_hearing.html
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on February 08, 2009, 02:48:37 AM
[youtube=560,345]xHw773EO314[/youtube]

Rachel being damn sexy
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on February 08, 2009, 02:51:44 AM

Also, WTF about this?:

http://www.politico.com/blogs/michaelcalderone/0209/Reporter_restrained_after_Panetta_hearing.html


those comments are insanely hilarious "WELCOME TO THE CHICAGO SOCIALIST LABOR UNION PEOPLE'S ARMY!!! GOODBYE FREEDOMS AND HELLO TERROR ATTACKS!!"
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 08, 2009, 02:55:34 AM
How do you people watch that shit? Is it necessary to have Rachel in a shadow box making silly faces while people talk? It's like the news equivalent of a laugh track for sitcoms.


Also, why does Rachel wear makeup? It's distracting.



Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on February 08, 2009, 03:04:39 AM
i'm glad she could spell out just how stupid most republicans are on this issue for the folks at home, though!
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 08, 2009, 03:16:29 AM
I'm sure the 2 million people out of 300 million Americans were educated.


Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on February 08, 2009, 03:36:06 AM
no, there's no word OTHER than STUPID for anyone who believes that tax cuts should be favored over infrastructure spending in a stimulus package, or who think that a stimulus package isn't needed. even the karl denninger-esque kooks are starting to come around, since it doesn't take a lot of mental horsepower to compute that, say (for example) repealing the amt for the rich will NOT lead to good returns on each dollar "spent", since RICH PEOPLE CAN AFFORD TO SAVE.

it's fine to worry about endgame inflation, but we have instruments for that. we're not too bad at managing inflation. we're clueless about deflation, and that's what we're risking without artificially GETTING POOR AND MIDDLE-CLASS FOLKS JOBS AND INCENTIVE TO SPEND.

i don't think either stimulus package is perfect -- or even particularly good -- but at LEAST they acknowledge that infrastructure spending is where we need to start. me, i want real public works and a commitment to infrastructure spending of the sort that would've been used to finance a world war back in the day. we can worry about inflation when the world comes a callin' -- and it will -- but at least that's something we have the tools for. tax cuts? no stimulus? that's just plain distinguished mentally-challenged.

as for your childish ideological disputes about the "nanny state"? the free market is a FAILURE. let it go. move onto acceptance. read real philosophies about society and sociology, not self-aggrandizing works of bad fiction. the reason we got where we are today is that we tried to pretend that economics were an objective science -- thanks, retardo austrians -- and not a study in macropsychology. people shit up every major endeavor, and a level of reliable behavior must be managed. you can be victimized by a democratic government that you have the option to directly participate in, or you can be victimized by a mercurial financial infrastructure that would gladly fleece you in the name of economic aristocracy. me, i'll take the lesser evil, because i'm an adult and recognize that most choices i make are about choosing lesser evils. but hey: go on, reject your responsibility in this, and hope for an economic unicorn!
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on February 08, 2009, 03:45:31 AM
i should add that if you're the undiscussed alternative to the above -- the "let rome burn" economic nihilist -- then, well, i am at least reassured that you'll never be allowed to manage money
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 08, 2009, 08:38:41 AM
I want Ayn Rand to ride in on a Golden Unicorn and queef out some more objectivist nonsense out of her hoo hah.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on February 08, 2009, 09:09:53 AM
Eh, whatever.

The Republicans are just signing their own death sentence with this stupidity.  2008 should have been a wake up call but the few that remain behind just aren't getting it.  Well, a few might but for the most part, the GOP is going full distinguished mentally-challenged fellow.  People are going to see that, see their now worthless 401k (good bye retirement, hello working until you die), and see their dwindling savings, and then see the distinguished mentally-challenged alternatives the Republicans and fence sitting centrists are proposing.

I'm not sure why the GOP assumes that if this fails, the Democrats will pay.  If anything, it will cause more GOP hemorrhaging in the ranks until it is a solid supermajority.  They're shooting themselves in the foot with this bullshit.  Their best plan is to work together and create the image of being past bipartisan sentiments, which most people are sick and tired of.  If not, well, they'll be leaving from Congress en masse in 2010.  Dumbasses.

I don't think the stimulus is a miracle package but it is a shot in the arm to do a lot of much needed infrastructure building that has been crumbling or remained stagnant since Reagan walked into office. 
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on February 08, 2009, 11:10:29 AM
Quote
no, there's no word OTHER than STUPID for anyone who believes that tax cuts should be favored over infrastructure spending in a stimulus package, or who think that a stimulus package isn't needed. even the karl denninger-esque kooks are starting to come around, since it doesn't take a lot of mental horsepower to compute that, say (for example) repealing the amt for the rich will NOT lead to good returns on each dollar "spent", since RICH PEOPLE CAN AFFORD TO SAVE.

meeeeee!  i really don't see why infrastructure spending should be favored over tax cuts if by "tax cuts" we mean stuff like EITC and "tax rebate" demogrants.  infrastructure (and education etc.) spending is fine if it's something actually worthwhile in itself, but if we're just spending money to give people money, better just give them money rather than wasting their time at some make-work job (which I'm not saying the stimulus programs are, but under the logic of some of the "it doesn't matter what we buy as long as we buy stuff" commentators I've seen they could just as well be).

you folks are trying to make the dispute over Keynesian economics out to be fake, like the global warming "controversy", but as far as I can tell it's pretty different.  expert opinion appears genuinely split, empirical evidence is inconclusive, theoretical justifications are (on the surface) dubious.

Quote
i should add that if you're the undiscussed alternative to the above -- the "let rome burn" economic nihilist -- then, well, i am at least reassured that you'll never be allowed to manage money

i think people most vulnerable to risk from economic collapse and least equipped to manage it, i.e. the working class, should be protected from the effects.  but, instead of trying to help them indirectly by propping up unsustainably bloated parts of the economy (auto, real estate, finance) on the front end, inviting waste and corruption, couldn't we let those sectors adjust, and relieve people caught in the crossfire as it were directly (through expanded unemployment, jobs programs directed at worthwhile goals, education and training etc.) instead?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Beardo on February 08, 2009, 11:16:53 AM
My question about california remains unanswered. If governemnt pending stimulates the economy then why is the great liberal motherland, california, going bankrupt in a matter of weeks?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 08, 2009, 11:39:04 AM
Yeah...that post was way before she had to give an interview. Had no idea she was such an idiot - at least thought she could sound competant. Not one of my better posts, but I will fully admit that for that particular night she blew me away. I basically abandoned her shortly after the Gibson debacle. Such a disappointment.  :-\

If she's the nominee in '12, then I'll vote 3rd party again like I did this year.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 08, 2009, 11:43:34 AM
[youtube=560,345]xHw773EO314[/youtube]

Rachel being damn sexy

Add her to the list of people who will be completely fucking owned in two years.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 08, 2009, 11:54:04 AM
For some reason the $780B number didn't include a couple ammendments that already passed in seperate votes. So, the real total is $827B.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 08, 2009, 11:58:47 AM
Quote
My first cut says that the changes to the Senate bill will ensure that we have at least 600,000 fewer Americans employed over the next two years.
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/02/07/what-the-centrists-have-wrought/

Palin Ginrich 2012 confirmed
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on February 08, 2009, 12:02:04 PM

i think people most vulnerable to risk from economic collapse and least equipped to manage it, i.e. the working class, should be protected from the effects.  but, instead of trying to help them indirectly by propping up unsustainably bloated parts of the economy (auto, real estate, finance) on the front end, inviting waste and corruption, couldn't we let those sectors adjust, and relieve people caught in the crossfire as it were directly (through expanded unemployment, jobs programs directed at worthwhile goals, education and training etc.) instead?

sounds like a keynesian stimulus to me!
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 08, 2009, 12:05:09 PM
[youtube=560,345]xHw773EO314[/youtube]

Rachel being damn sexy

Add her to the list of people who will be completely fucking owned in two years.
Ahhh the big GOP comeback of 2010 eh? Near impossible. GOP is defending a lot more seats and they have multiple retirements, in purple states no less.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 08, 2009, 12:11:13 PM
Besides the partisan sniping, I like Krugman. He's probably right here that there is too much focus on taxes. But, that was completely Obama's fault when he offered them in a bipartisan plea at the outset.

Krugman explains the problem in easy terms - there's a ~$2 trillion demand gap over the next two years. But, he ignores the fact that the demand gap is fake (as much of the growth the last few years). Its based on massive amounts of debt that is now coming due. So, he wants the government to step up to the plate to fill that fake gap with more debt. Insanity...which is why Congress did it.


Cheebs: I have no illusions over a GOP comeback in '10. The numbers are just too insurmountable in one cycle. Doesn't mean that Maddow won't look like a fool in two years though.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on February 08, 2009, 12:21:56 PM
My question about california remains unanswered. If governemnt pending stimulates the economy then why is the great liberal motherland, california, going bankrupt in a matter of weeks?

because your question is stupid and doesn't acknowledge CONTEXT. california doesn't manage its own currency, for starters; it's not an independent nation. it doesn't have a fed equivalent. it can't hedge its future by printing debt specific to the state of california, grinning madly at the rest of the united states, and hoping that it can manage potential inflation after the fact by shuffling the numbers around.

and nobody is arguing that government shouldn't be fiscally prudent when times are good -- THAT'S KEYNESIANISM. california SHOULD have saved during the salad days so it could spend when shit hit the fan. but it had recalibrated its spending up to match its debt-inflated income when times seemed good -- thanks schwarzenegger, you're a fine less-tax-and-lotta-spend republican in the mold of reagan and junior -- and was slammed when the nationwide (and global) financial industries discovered they were built on a foundation of toxic securities manure. after all, california financed a lot of its payroll off investments and loans. ouch! hey, who likes privatization, again?

your shitwit goal is to scream LOL SPENDING IS BAD TOLD YA and that's not even the argument. even your great white bugbear, john maynard keynes, thought that governments should be restrained in their spending practices during a boom, and use that as a time to eradicate deficits and shore up for the next bust. hey, we blew a trillion plus that might just save our own asses right now because dick cheney and the rest of you nasally paranoiacs fouled your panties over some angry brownskins half a world away. yes, califorrnia was irresponsible, but california also isn't a nation.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on February 08, 2009, 12:25:25 PM
California also has an actor governor.  Just sayin'.

And I can't see how Maddow could be owned, considering she's dead motherfucking on.  Seriously, you're BLIND if you watch that clip, see McCain's segment, and think "Yeah!  McCain is dead-on!"
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on February 08, 2009, 12:27:45 PM
Besides the partisan sniping, I like Krugman. He's probably right here that there is too much focus on taxes. But, that was completely Obama's fault when he offered them in a bipartisan plea at the outset.

Krugman explains the problem in easy terms - there's a ~$2 trillion demand gap over the next two years. But, he ignores the fact that the demand gap is fake (as much of the growth the last few years). Its based on massive amounts of debt that is now coming due. So, he wants the government to step up to the plate to fill that fake gap with more debt. Insanity...which is why Congress did it.


Cheebs: I have no illusions over a GOP comeback in '10. The numbers are just too insurmountable in one cycle. Doesn't mean that Maddow won't look like a fool in two years though.

the presence (or lack thereof) of a demand gap is irrelevant to the purpose of the stimulus. do you think krugman isn't aware of this? this is a two pronged problem, and congress can only fix one: rising unemployment. the massive seabed of toxic debt has to be handled through the fed and the executive office, first. worst of all, they hafta be largely done in parallel -- the stimulus to get americans to spend, and the securities buy-up to make credit move.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 08, 2009, 12:43:49 PM
no, there's no word OTHER than STUPID for anyone who believes that tax cuts should be favored over infrastructure spending in a stimulus package, or who think that a stimulus package isn't needed. even the karl denninger-esque kooks are starting to come around, since it doesn't take a lot of mental horsepower to compute that, say (for example) repealing the amt for the rich will NOT lead to good returns on each dollar "spent", since RICH PEOPLE CAN AFFORD TO SAVE.

I believe the bill had both endeavors and one was favored over the other. I understand your vitriol for the Republicans since they are such a visible target, but listening to Meet the Press today, it sounds like the centrists are equally to blame. Blue Dogs wanted to make sure that the stimulus was full of short term spending and omitted many things that could perpetuate our debt even further into the future.

Quote
i don't think either stimulus package is perfect -- or even particularly good -- but at LEAST they acknowledge that infrastructure spending is where we need to start. me, i want real public works and a commitment to infrastructure spending of the sort that would've been used to finance a world war back in the day.

I definitely agree here. I thought it was embarrassing that a bill that was almost 1 trillion dollars only had 30 billion set aside for roads/bridges/etc.   

Quote
as for your childish ideological disputes about the "nanny state"? the free market is a FAILURE. let it go. move onto acceptance. read real philosophies about society and sociology, not self-aggrandizing works of bad fiction. the reason we got where we are today is that we tried to pretend that economics were an objective science -- thanks, retardo austrians -- and not a study in macropsychology. people shit up every major endeavor, and a level of reliable behavior must be managed. you can be victimized by a democratic government that you have the option to directly participate in, or you can be victimized by a mercurial financial infrastructure that would gladly fleece you in the name of economic aristocracy. me, i'll take the lesser evil, because i'm an adult and recognize that most choices i make are about choosing lesser evils. but hey: go on, reject your responsibility in this, and hope for an economic unicorn!

Our "free market" isn't so free. This isn't 1910 where the tax rate was virtually nil and oversight was non-existent. Our economy and lives are more regulated than they ever have been. The failure was in our elected officials who allow these bubbles to occur and do not use their powers to temper these conditions. You can speculate why that happens (ignorance, profiteering, corruption), but then to turn around and trust the same people to create this Socialistic utopia is even more insane.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on February 08, 2009, 12:45:28 PM
financial deregulation happened on your boy greenspan's watch! COINKY-DINK?

and since when have i pined for a utopia? i don't especially trust the democrats to lead me into my socialist pomised land; hell, i just want to get back to "normal" unemployment levels!
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 08, 2009, 12:55:19 PM
the presence (or lack thereof) of a demand gap is irrelevant to the purpose of the stimulus.

I don't understand what you mean there.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on February 08, 2009, 12:57:08 PM
why is transportation infrastructure better than services --- how many more roads and bridges do we need?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Beardo on February 08, 2009, 12:59:19 PM
why is transportation infrastructure better than services --- how many more roads and bridges do we need?

Why are you being unpatriotic?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on February 08, 2009, 01:13:32 PM
the presence (or lack thereof) of a demand gap is irrelevant to the purpose of the stimulus.

I don't understand what you mean there.

oops, my bad, got my arguments crossed when posting on the nyt comments page. d'oh. it's not irrelevant.


specifically, krugman wants to fill that gap because the alternative -- allowing that that fake wealth to get RAPIDLY compressed out of existence -- is far more disastrous in the short term than dealing with the inflationary risk, because for all of its "fakeness" that wealth is what many businesses and lives are built upon. buying up the really bad chunk of this debt and shaking it down for what we can get through a bank of last resort is the only viable option floated thus far. letting it crash simply isn't, because the consequences are DUH rampant deflation, which we lack the instruments to properly manage and which will lead to us ALL po'bucking it up in our urban shanty towns. inflation is a shell game we know how to play. we can slowly and systematically crush that debt if its off the books of banks and in the hands of the feds; presuming, of course, that geithner isn't totally distinguished mentally-challenged.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on February 08, 2009, 01:26:10 PM
why is transportation infrastructure better than services --- how many more roads and bridges do we need?

Wrong

Besides if people want manufacturing jobs to stay here in the US, you're going to want more money spent for transportation infrastructure instead of more white collar work.  As far as I'm concerned at this point, preserving blue collar jobs >>>>>>> white collar jobs.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Brehvolution on February 08, 2009, 06:51:17 PM
I agree but judging by the last few months of massive layoffs, white collar workers don't agree with you.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 08, 2009, 07:27:37 PM
why is transportation infrastructure better than services --- how many more roads and bridges do we need?

Strictly speaking it's not- I believe food stamps/unemployment gives you about $1.70ish for every dollar spent and infrastructure spending gives you about $1.50 for every dollar.  Compare that to tax cuts at basically a 1:1 ratio.

However, you have to take into account that you can only spend so much on food stamps/unemployment... of course, neither the House or Senate bill probably has enough, but there you go.  Also, with the infrastructure spending you have to factor in that: 

A) Due to the fact that beginning with Reagan we stopped performing regularly scheduled maintenance on roads, bridges, levees etc our infrastructure is in absolutely shameful shape.  I believe overall the corps of engineers rated it a D.  So this won't be all bridges to no where; this shit is needed.

B) Spending the money on tangible shit gives you benefits over the long term.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on February 08, 2009, 07:31:10 PM
the trouble is, as i pointed out on your facebook, is that the republican chunk of the senate is from flyover country -- the TAKER states. they don't have urban centers where this stimulus will directly benefit them as much, and they've done an absolutely bang-up job of gutting the proposals that would really help renew and grow urban centers, especially when it comes to education.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 08, 2009, 07:52:34 PM
We should get rid of the Senate.  They're about as useful as the House of Lords these days anyhow.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on February 08, 2009, 07:57:44 PM
We should get rid of the Senate.  They're about as useful as the House of Lords these days anyhow.

We should also set the midwest on fire.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on February 08, 2009, 08:01:21 PM
and pave it over for the world's largest monster truck rally :hyper
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 08, 2009, 08:04:43 PM
inflation is a shell game we know how to play. we can slowly and systematically crush that debt if its off the books of banks and in the hands of the feds; presuming, of course, that geithner isn't totally distinguished mentally-challenged.


I think you're probably right here in that this is ultimately how they plan on reining in our debt.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on February 08, 2009, 08:09:25 PM
and i'll certainly allow that a very, very large level of skepticism is warranted. but we gotta TRY, and until republicans get real about that, their obstructionism is worse than even the worst democratic pork.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on February 08, 2009, 08:16:50 PM
"obstructionism" that was geared towards actually ensuring the programs funded are solid investments and not patronage junk would be nice, instead we get obstructionism aimed at adding complete bullshit like the house credit
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on February 08, 2009, 08:17:30 PM
It was the American Society of Civil Engineers that gave the roads a D.

I agree but judging by the last few months of massive layoffs, white collar workers don't agree with you.

Perhaps but the country did that at the expense of outsourcing those kinds of jobs to the Chinese, among others.  Transportation infrastructure is not the end all be all, but it will preserve a lot of working class jobs that should be coming back to the US anyway.  Best of all, the resources can all be had right within the country.  Limestone, steel, various bituminous mixtures, etc. can all be mined, produced, manufactured, and/or distributed here in the US.

On the other hand, neglecting that kind of industry for more office jobs will ensure that we have massive trade deficits for quite a while.  Infrastructure spending is one of the better opportunities to reverse the shrinking middle class and marginalization of the working classes.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on February 08, 2009, 08:18:22 PM
that's not obstructionism. obstructionism isn't asking for justification and offering viable proposals that uphold the thrust of the stimulus; obstructionism is tossing out empty alternatives that are demonstrably shallow and often completely unviable.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on February 08, 2009, 08:19:52 PM
hence "\"obstructionism\""
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on February 08, 2009, 08:21:14 PM
nice entity escapes! my head hurts from DIRTY LIBRUL TAX BUREAUCRACY. :'(
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 08, 2009, 09:58:23 PM
YAAAAAAAAAAARRGH.

I'm about to beat some people I went to HS with to death over the internets; one of them is being snarky about how "oh gosh it's great that we're gonna spend money we don't have to fix an economy that went into the crapper because consumers were spending money they didn't have hyuck hyuck" and then his sister chimed in with "oh don't worry, it didn't work in the New Deal haha stoopid FDR, WWII is what saved us but since Obama is hopelessly clueless about diplomacy we'll probably end up in a turrible war with some brownskins somewheres hyuck hyuck"...

Of course these people are from Texas and Georgia, but STILL.  Get their genes outta my pool!
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Fragamemnon on February 08, 2009, 10:33:40 PM
YAAAAAAAAAAARRGH.

I'm about to beat some people I went to HS with to death over the internets; one of them is being snarky about how "oh gosh it's great that we're gonna spend money we don't have to fix an economy that went into the crapper because consumers were spending money they didn't have hyuck hyuck" and then his sister chimed in with "oh don't worry, it didn't work in the New Deal haha stoopid FDR, WWII is what saved us but since Obama is hopelessly clueless about diplomacy we'll probably end up in a turrible war with some brownskins somewheres hyuck hyuck"...

Of course these people are from Texas and Georgia, but STILL.  Get their genes outta my pool!

we really have to find out a way to convert people into synthetic fossil fuels. it can't be that hard, can it?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 08, 2009, 10:44:38 PM
I had a dream the other night that somehow scientists discovered that baby Panda blood was the most fuel efficient substance known to man.  Just one syringe full diluted into your whole gas tank filled with water would run your car for a week or two... the dream descended into a hellish future of forced panda breeding and debates over whether it was more ethical to just bleed them to death or keep them on a steady drip so as to prolong their usefulness.  This is a future I want to live in, I knew.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Crushed on February 08, 2009, 10:47:44 PM
"oh don't worry, it didn't work in the New Deal haha stoopid FDR, WWII is what saved us

"We weren't saved by huge public works, bureaucracy, government jobs, and spending, we were saved by... exponentially bigger public works, even more bureaucracy, more government jobs, and incredible amounts of spending."
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 08, 2009, 11:49:10 PM
Did Beardo ever explain that Perot comment
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 09, 2009, 01:26:38 AM
I'm downloading 2 gigs of leaked government reports. I don't know why.

Quote
February 8, 2009

EDITORIAL

Change you can download.
Wikileaks has released nearly a billion dollars worth of quasi-secret reports commissioned by the United States Congress.

The 6,780 reports, current as of this month, comprise over 127,000 pages of material on some of the most contentious issues in the nation, from the U.S. relationship with Israel to the financial collapse. Nearly 2,300 of the reports were updated in the last 12 months, while the oldest report goes back to 1990. The release represents the total output of the Congressional Research Service (CRS) electronically available to Congressional offices. The CRS is Congress's analytical agency and has a budget in excess of $100M per year.

Open government lawmakers such as Senators John McCain (R-Arizona) and Patrick J. Leahy (D-Vermont) have fought for years to make the reports public, with bills being introduced--and rejected--almost every year since 1998. The CRS, as a branch of Congress, is exempt from the Freedom of Information Act.

CRS reports are highly regarded as non-partisan, in-depth, and timely. The reports top the list of the "10 Most-Wanted Government Documents" compiled by the Washington based Center for Democracy and Technology[1]. The Federation of American Scientists, in pushing for the reports to be made public, stated that the "CRS is Congress' Brain and it's useful for the public to be plugged into it,"[2]. While Wired magazine called their concealment "The biggest Congressional scandal of the digital age"[3

http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4713076
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 09, 2009, 12:37:04 PM
Is flying Indiana to receive some rock hero worship really going to help this stimulus plan pass?

::avatar quote
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 09, 2009, 12:46:43 PM
Is flying Indiana to receive some rock hero worship really going to help this stimulus plan pass?

Nope...but its definately gonna provide for some awesome ad material in the next election.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on February 09, 2009, 12:55:46 PM
It's not like he hasn't tried to talk to Congress about it.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 09, 2009, 01:14:20 PM
Is flying Indiana to receive some rock hero worship really going to help this stimulus plan pass?

::avatar quote

because he's selling the stimulus on a state level, making people understand just what type of local aide the republicans want to take out of the bill?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Rman on February 09, 2009, 01:17:51 PM
Looks like ex Ebay CEO Meg Whitman might be running for governor of California. 
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: T234 on February 09, 2009, 01:33:18 PM
Looks like ex Ebay CEO Meg Whitman might be running for governor of California. 

Sounds like a disaster.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 09, 2009, 01:33:44 PM
because he's selling the stimulus on a state level, making people understand just what type of local aide the republicans want to take out of the bill?

Ohhh .. I see now. Indiana just wasn't a convienent place to land the jet. Pretty clever.

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 09, 2009, 01:35:08 PM
Looks like ex Ebay CEO Meg Whitman might be running for governor of California. 

Jeff Bezos was too busy?

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: T234 on February 09, 2009, 01:47:00 PM
Looks like ex Ebay CEO Meg Whitman might be running for governor of California. 

Jeff Bezos was too busy?



I dunno, DJ_Tet would be the best to judge, seeing as how he has actually conversed with the man.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 09, 2009, 02:11:01 PM
Fucking hilarious. Obama is teflon when it comes to the stimulus problems, most of the blame falls on the GOP.  :lol

(http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/spkmsc5sue2tgkahrvqrxq.gif)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Crushed on February 09, 2009, 02:13:38 PM
Why isn't the 70's and 80's recession included in this chart? God, I hate liberals.
(http://i41.tinypic.com/24mgc28.jpg)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 09, 2009, 02:21:47 PM
This is why Republicans aren't taken seriously:

Quote
STEELE: You’ve got to look at what’s going to create sustainable jobs. What this administration is talking about is making work. It is creating work.

   STEPHANOPOULOS: But that’s a job.

   STEELE: No, it’s not a job. A job is something that — that a business owner creates. It’s going to be long term. What he’s creating...

   STEPHANOPOULOS: So a job doesn’t count if it’s a government job?

   (CROSSTALK)

   STEELE: Hold on. No, let me — let me — let me finish. That is a contract. It ends at a certain point, George. You know that. These road projects that we’re talking about have an end point.

   As a small-business owner, I’m looking to grow my business, expand my business. I want to reach further. I want to be international. I want to be national. It’s a whole different perspective on how you create a job versus how you create work. And I’m — either way, the bottom line is...

   STEPHANOPOULOS: I guess I don’t really understand that distinction.

   STEELE: Well, the difference — the distinction is this. If a government — if you’ve got a government contract that is a fixed period of time, it goes away. The work may go away. That’s — there’s no guarantee that that — that there’s going to be more work when you’re done in that job.

   STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes, but we’ve seen millions and millions of jobs going away in the private sector just in the last year.

   STEELE: But they come — yes, they — and they come back, though, George. That’s the point. When they go — they’ve gone away before, and they come back.

It's like magic!  They'll just come back if we cut their taxes HARD enough!  Get some new ideas, morans.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on February 09, 2009, 02:25:07 PM
Guess what, unemployed?  Your business just was taking a long-deserved trip, don't worry, you'll be hired back after your job recovers from its sun burn.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Brehvolution on February 09, 2009, 02:36:49 PM
So he is against giving people jobs until their jobs come back?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 09, 2009, 02:51:45 PM
(http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/joblossespostwarii.jpg)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 09, 2009, 03:00:35 PM
Why isn't the 70's and 80's recession included in this chart? God, I hate liberals.
*chart

Yea, I saw that. I posted a spreadsheet that showed a better indicator of job losses and how to measure them from era to era. I think SD's chart (above) is set up using that data.

Not that it makes any of the news any better. Especially when you factor in that we have much less of a manufacturing base to fall back on and historic competition globally.

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 09, 2009, 08:21:23 PM
Quote
Just as the Senate was voting, the Congressional Budget Office released a new analysis showing the total cost of the Senate version of the stimulus bill to be $838.2 billion over 10 years, of which $292.5 billion or roughly 35 percent is in the form of tax cuts.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/10/washington/10stimulus-web.html?_r=1&hp
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on February 09, 2009, 08:27:57 PM
Obama is layin' shit down right now
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 09, 2009, 08:29:04 PM
He's framing the argument brilliantly. The pork argument is being annihilated

edit: live feed http://www.hulu.com/live/obamapressconference
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 09, 2009, 08:32:08 PM
It was all the banks' fault. Consumer overspending had nothing to do with it.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 09, 2009, 08:32:54 PM
President HNIC laying the smack down.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 09, 2009, 08:35:09 PM
It was all the banks' fault. Consumer overspending had nothing to do with it.

Are you even watching? He just said people who bought homes they couldn't afford were participating in "bad habits" that need to be changed
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 09, 2009, 08:37:43 PM
You need to watch that again.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: huckleberry on February 09, 2009, 08:39:34 PM
It was all the banks' fault. Consumer overspending had nothing to do with it.


Yeah...he should make a Jimmy Carter esque statement. Great idea.


I think one of the first unspoken rules of politics is that the voter is never the cause of anything....
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 09, 2009, 08:44:37 PM
You need to watch that again.

You need to join reality. His point was perfectly clear that people who bought homes they couldn't afford made a mistake. No he didn't put all the blame on them, or chastise them as tough as he chastises banks/wall street. What do you expect him to do

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on February 09, 2009, 08:46:35 PM
to give sd a tax cut
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 09, 2009, 08:48:23 PM
We'll just have to go to the transcript.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Crushed on February 09, 2009, 08:53:30 PM
to give sd a tax cut
giving poor people a tax cut is socialism though

give rich people a tax cut, so it can the golden shower can trickle down to sd
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eric P on February 09, 2009, 10:39:35 PM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/ericprva/aolol.jpg)

aol.com's snap survey
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 09, 2009, 11:23:45 PM
I loved when Obama brought up and then proceeded to mock the FDR revisionist history types. :lol

It was like he was talking about the wacky libertarians on the net.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 10, 2009, 12:51:46 AM
My Sirius radio crapped out on my ride home from work, so I was flipping through the AM stations and rolled past Hannity pimping his own dating service. WTF


http://web1.hannity.com/hannidate/



Any takers on this 38 year old "strong christian" and his dog? (What grown man takes a formal picture with his dog? lol)

spoiler (click to show/hide)
(http://web1.hannity.com/hannidate/photos/L000379_1.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 10, 2009, 01:02:42 AM
Erip P is that the online poll or something more official? Too small to see

the online poll shows mixed results but obviously it's not scientific. Obama defended his position while making the republicans look like assholes
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on February 10, 2009, 01:06:50 AM
Multi-paragraph posts from Prole and tennin.   :heart EB

Quote
no, there's no word OTHER than STUPID for anyone who believes that tax cuts should be favored over infrastructure spending in a stimulus package, or who think that a stimulus package isn't needed. even the karl denninger-esque kooks are starting to come around, since it doesn't take a lot of mental horsepower to compute that, say (for example) repealing the amt for the rich will NOT lead to good returns on each dollar "spent", since RICH PEOPLE CAN AFFORD TO SAVE.

meeeeee!  i really don't see why infrastructure spending should be favored over tax cuts if by "tax cuts" we mean stuff like EITC and "tax rebate" demogrants.  infrastructure (and education etc.) spending is fine if it's something actually worthwhile in itself, but if we're just spending money to give people money, better just give them money rather than wasting their time at some make-work job (which I'm not saying the stimulus programs are, but under the logic of some of the "it doesn't matter what we buy as long as we buy stuff" commentators I've seen they could just as well be).

you folks are trying to make the dispute over Keynesian economics out to be fake, like the global warming "controversy", but as far as I can tell it's pretty different.  expert opinion appears genuinely split, empirical evidence is inconclusive, theoretical justifications are (on the surface) dubious.

I think you're misreading the debate and drawing the battle lines wrong as a consequence.  The economists using the Keynes playbook (and those of us cadging their talking points) do rate refundable tax credits pretty highly.

(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/2015/20081022snapshot600lv4.jpg)

That's just one example but I think sums up the consensus among the Keynes mafia (Krugman, DeLong, that Romer-Bernstein paper, etc.).  When they dis "tax cuts" you should read that phrase as "untargeted marginal rate cuts or cuts to the corporate/capital gains/estate taxes."  You know, the horseshit that actually makes the other side of the public discourse on this issue.

Remember, it was the House GOP leadership who told Obama that the refundable credits were really "welfare" and the Senate GOP that proposed a non-refundable rate cut as an alternative.  I haven't seen any lefty economists attack the EITC, food stamps, etc.

As for Keynes' theory generally, I'm too lazy to read the primary sources but Krugman and Daniel Davies -- my favorite pundits and guys with great bullshit detectors -- swear by him.  Plus most of the criticism I've seen has come in the form of transparently dishonest arguments from Chicago school types.


Quote from: Professor Prole
the trouble is, as i pointed out on your facebook

Man, do I gotta register there to get all my EB-related content?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: patrickula on February 10, 2009, 10:39:22 AM
FYI, Obama sucks starting yesterday :gloomy
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123422915277565975.html

:piss state secrets defense :piss2
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 10, 2009, 10:41:06 AM
Quote
All right. Chuck Todd. Where's Chuck?

QUESTION: Thank you, Mr. President. In your opening remarks, you talked about that if your plan works the way you want it to work, it's going to increase consumer spending. But isn't consumer spending, or over-spending, how we got into this mess? And if people get money back into their pockets, do you not want them saving it or paying down debt first, before they start spending money into the economy?

MR. OBAMA: Well, first of all, I don't think it's accurate to say that consumer spending got us into this mess. What got us into this mess initially were banks taking exorbitant, wild risks with other people's monies, based on shaky assets. And because of the enormous leverage, where they had $1 worth of assets and they were betting $30 on that $1, what we had was a crisis in the financial system.

That led to a contraction of credit, which in turn meant businesses couldn't make payroll or make inventories, which meant that everybody became uncertain about the future of the economy.


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/09/us/politics/09text-obama.html?pagewanted=7 (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/09/us/politics/09text-obama.html?pagewanted=7)

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eric P on February 10, 2009, 10:42:47 AM
My Sirius radio crapped out on my ride home from work, so I was flipping through the AM stations and rolled past Hannity pimping his own dating service. WTF


http://web1.hannity.com/hannidate/



Any takers on this 38 year old "strong christian" and his dog? (What grown man takes a formal picture with his dog? lol)

spoiler (click to show/hide)
(http://web1.hannity.com/hannidate/photos/L000379_1.jpg)
[close]

omgomgomgomg

best thing ever
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eric P on February 10, 2009, 10:47:15 AM
Erip P is that the online poll or something more official? Too small to see

the online poll shows mixed results but obviously it's not scientific. Obama defended his position while making the republicans look like assholes

strange it posted fine here

it's an aol online poll asking "how did obama do?"

and the choices are:
thumbs up, thumbs up, or no opinion
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 10, 2009, 10:47:41 AM
Is there a live stream of the Geithner press conference?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 10, 2009, 11:09:33 AM
According to Leisman, there still is no firm plan for the banks.

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 10, 2009, 11:33:03 AM
Quote
Once the economy stabilizes and people are less fearful, then I do think that we're going to have to start thinking about how do we operate more prudently, because there's no such thing as a free lunch. So if -- if you want to get -- if you want to buy a house, then putting zero down and buying a house that is probably not affordable for you in case something goes wrong, that's something that has to be reconsidered.

So we're going to have to change our -- our bad habits. But right now, the key is making sure that we pull ourselves out of the economic slump that we're in.

SD annihilated
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 10, 2009, 11:36:33 AM
Geithner: Failure to act quickly made this crisis worse. So, check back with us in a few weeks when we have our plan formulated.

Amazing to think that after almost 3 months on the job he still has no plan. And the markets are reacting very badly. Down 300 at the moment.

EDIT:  :lol PD...so you want to ignore how he specifically responded to the question asked by Todd? Come on dude. Go back to what I said and compare it to what Obama said. There's no difference. 
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on February 10, 2009, 11:56:01 AM
just nationalize the freakin' major banks already, or make a fuckin' national bank to sit on the toxic assets, swiss-style! ARE WE SO AFRAID OF BECOMING LIKE EUROPE, I ASK.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 10, 2009, 12:00:25 PM
Geithner: Failure to act quickly made this crisis worse. So, check back with us in a few weeks when we have our plan formulated.

Amazing to think that after almost 3 months on the job he still has no plan. And the markets are reacting very badly. Down 300 at the moment.

EDIT:  :lol PD...so you want to ignore how he specifically responded to the question asked by Todd? Come on dude. Go back to what I said and compare it to what Obama said. There's no difference. 

His entire response was a response, you can't pick and choose. Secondly Todd's question was undeniably distinguished mentally-challenged
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 10, 2009, 12:05:49 PM
just nationalize the freakin' major banks already, or make a fuckin' national bank to sit on the toxic assets, swiss-style! ARE WE SO AFRAID OF BECOMING LIKE EUROPE, I ASK.

Stiglitz (http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2009/02/06-0), Krugman (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/02/opinion/02krugman.html?_r=2), Roubini, Taleb (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a7.lUqwQLxw8&refer=home) and Baker (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dean-baker/the-banks-have-stolen-eno_b_160677.html?page=2) all agree that the banks should be nationalized.  Just do it.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 10, 2009, 12:21:37 PM
Who do you think lines their pockets with donation money and offers them cushy lobbying jobs and speaking fees when they leave office?

Once they nationalize the banks, they lose that source of income.

Bank of America donated 2.2 million in 2008
Citigroup donated 4.2 million in 2008
Chase donated 4.2 million in 2008
MBNA donated 1.5 million in 2008

...and on and on. In total, it was 34 million (48% to Dems, 52% to Reps) for  last year alone.


Keep living the dream, comrades. One day our socialist utopia will magically appear.



Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: y2kev on February 10, 2009, 12:26:32 PM
I don't think there's any question that one major issue here is the ridiculous leveraging that banks were doing, which you do have to blame banks for (as well as people like Paulson) and not distinguished mentally-challenged hick consumers. But in general, I disagree with Obama there. Consumer spending on easy credit is at least partly culpable.

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 10, 2009, 12:27:12 PM
Questions to anyone who would like to answer.

Why must we get credit flowing again to families who are in debt up to their eyeballs?
Why must we stop greatly inflated home prices from continueing to fall?
Why must we help out homeowners who could never afford their house in the first place?
Why must we continue to prop up insolvent banks?

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 10, 2009, 12:38:27 PM
Questions to anyone who would like to answer.

Why must we get credit flowing again to families who are in debt up to their eyeballs?
Getting credit flowing is for businesses. Even solvent businesses are having problems securing credit.

Quote
Why must we stop greatly inflated home prices from continueing to fall?

Because you will cause more home loans to be "upside down". Which straps people with more debt, less spending power and can freeze them into a house for the next decade or more.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/19/AR2007041902924.html


Quote
Why must we help out homeowners who could never afford their house in the first place?

Because when they take a bath on their property, they are dropping the property value of everyone around them and causing them to be frozen too.

Quote
Why must we continue to prop up insolvent banks?

We shouldn't ... but if you can't find other banks to assume their debts, then the government could wind up spending more when they are forced to cover.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 10, 2009, 12:55:46 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/19/AR2007041902924.html

And there in lies the problem - a high school teacher bought a 1/2 million dollar home. Fucking insane.

Should I bust out my chart again?

And you should read Geithner's speech. He specifically said we need to get credit flowing to families again. I'll try to find it.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Kestastrophe on February 10, 2009, 01:11:13 PM
I do disagree with their approach to increase credit lending to individuals, but I have yet to see details released as to the extent of this lending. shoring up credit to small business is a must however. there should be some kind of funding going to individual foreclosures, imo, even though that presents a slew of other problems, logistics and such.

siamesedreamer, why aren't you asking "who would fund a high school teacher on a $500,000 house" in addition to placing the blame solely on the consumer?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on February 10, 2009, 01:18:27 PM
Quote
Any takers on this 38 year old "strong christian" and his dog? (What grown man takes a formal picture with his dog? lol)

his dog looks pretty in that pic, he made the right decision.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on February 10, 2009, 01:27:30 PM
who wants to give easy credit to families? i want businesses and state governments to be able to make payrolls and purchase assets proactively!
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on February 10, 2009, 02:18:40 PM
I sort of liked season 7 too, but I get why people don't.

season 7 of the Bush years that is
it was admittedly kind of a letdown after season 6 ended on a cliffhanger with the Democrats coming in and people expected they'd actually try to do something
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 10, 2009, 02:32:39 PM
Shitload of people watched Obama last night. Nearly 40 million on networks, around 50 million with cable included.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 10, 2009, 02:54:24 PM
I saw this up on reddit. It's a PBS interview with a Harvard Law professor about credit and America. Interesting stuff.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/credit/interviews/warren.html

Quote
I'm thinking of ... various economists who would say that you just don't believe in the future; you don't believe in increased productivity; you don't believe in the ... model, for instance, of the U.S. economy which, in spite all the naysayers (interview was in 2004), continues to expand, and consumer credit in particular has been key to that expansion over the last 20 years.

Families cannot expand their earnings fast enough to make up for the 29 percent interest rates. They just can't do it. It's not possible. ... Our economy may grow fast, it may hit another boom, and we may grow ourselves out of all kinds of debt problems, but the individual family can't count on increasing its income next year by 29 percent.

Look at where American wages have been for the last 30 years. A fully employed male today earns 1 percent more than a fully employed male earned 30 years ago. Inflation adjusted, there's been 1 percent growth in wages in 30 years. When people take out credit card loans at 29 percent interest, they're spending tomorrow's wages, and there's no way that those wages are going to go up fast enough that they're going to have the money to pay it back other than by cutting their future purchasing.

Title: Why must you post?
Post by: Mandark on February 10, 2009, 03:06:56 PM
Questions to anyone who would like to answer.

Why must we get credit flowing again to families who are in debt up to their eyeballs?
Why must we stop greatly inflated home prices from continueing to fall?
Why must we help out homeowners who could never afford their house in the first place?
Why must we continue to prop up insolvent banks?

What would you do?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: demi on February 10, 2009, 03:19:31 PM
Damn that Hannidate shit was gold, but I cant view shit anymore. Guess you gotta register
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 10, 2009, 04:19:56 PM
Our economy is far too reliant on consumer purchases by people who are living on credit. The economy will need to shrink and everyone will have to take a major hit for things to get to a sane point again. Credit limits need to be slashed and people have to accept that they can only buy what their paychecks say they can. In that same line, employers will have to provide wages which actually allow people to pay for the basics (food, housing, healthcare, education). And those who earn less will need to stop with luxury purchases and the rich will just have to face being less rich.

Now what would you do?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 10, 2009, 04:22:10 PM
So let me get this right sd, you're saying CEOs shouldn't be making 500 times what the average worker at their company makes?  SOCIALIST.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 10, 2009, 07:42:16 PM
After the markets implode on the non-news Ogeithner "plan", Dodd is saying suspending mark-to-market accounting rules may be part of it. Wall Street will love it, but inventing the value of assets is fucking insane since the taxpayers are going to be footing most of the bill. That's how the swindle continues on though.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: y2kev on February 10, 2009, 07:47:49 PM
Mark-to-model isn't anything new, and it's not really "inventing" the price of assets. I don't think any models are going to pass for "if x, then x = 1 BILLION ZILLION!!!" But yeah, you'd like it to be mark to market when the tax payer is going to foot the bill, but that would be counterproductive.

there's no point in doing this good bank/bad bank thing with the government playing bad bank if it causes such a drop in net worth/owners equity for the banks that the banks become insolvent again once a single loan defaults.

just nationalize the banks.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Beardo on February 10, 2009, 08:28:07 PM
How's Europe's economy right now? Surely all of their spending and government programs are keeping them healthy?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Barry Egan on February 10, 2009, 09:12:39 PM
How's Europe's economy right now? Surely all of their spending and government programs are keeping them healthy?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/MastahCrushed/Emote/emot-smug.gif)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 10, 2009, 09:13:51 PM
How's Europe's economy right now? Surely all of their spending and government programs are keeping them healthy?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/MastahCrushed/Emote/emot-smug.gif)

Why is this not an emoticon yet?  Leper Willco.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Crushed on February 10, 2009, 09:16:16 PM
(http://i44.tinypic.com/2qa8vbm.png)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 10, 2009, 09:19:07 PM
(http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/topstory/sports/popovich_gregg030428.jpg)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Barry Egan on February 10, 2009, 09:29:39 PM
How's Europe's economy right now? Surely all of their spending and government programs are keeping them healthy?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/MastahCrushed/Emote/emot-smug.gif)

Why is this not an emoticon yet?  Leper Willco.

why bother when his employers going to do it for us?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Oblivion on February 10, 2009, 09:30:30 PM
How's Europe's economy right now? Surely all of their spending and government programs are keeping them healthy?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/MastahCrushed/Emote/emot-smug.gif)

Why is this not an emoticon yet?  Leper Willco.

Can we add a :hippolol too while we're at it?
Title: What would you do, not where do you want to wind up.
Post by: Mandark on February 10, 2009, 10:59:34 PM
Our economy is far too reliant on consumer purchases by people who are living on credit. The economy will need to shrink and everyone will have to take a major hit for things to get to a sane point again. Credit limits need to be slashed and people have to accept that they can only buy what their paychecks say they can. In that same line, employers will have to provide wages which actually allow people to pay for the basics (food, housing, healthcare, education). And those who earn less will need to stop with luxury purchases and the rich will just have to face being less rich.

Now what would you do?

You're describing an end-state (less consumption, less consumer debt, living wages) without answering my question.

I'm getting the implication that we should let the market self-correct and trust that it will mete out the pain with efficiency and morality, eventually leading to your desired conclusion.  Tell me if I'm wrong.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Brehvolution on February 10, 2009, 11:42:54 PM
It really did not occur to me just how much money credit card companies are leeching out of the American public until I read that interview. Billions and billions in interest and bullshit fees that should not be allowed. If you guys haven't read that interview, you need to.

Read it? We just escaped it about 6 month ago. It took my wife 6 months to close a Citibank account with a zero balance because they kept charging fees on a "closed" account.

"Yes ma'am, we are sorry for this and it will be rectified on the next months bill." (http://i42.tinypic.com/maa1jm.gif)

Next month we get a bill for the closed account with fees on top of fees we didn't pay the month before.

6 months of this.
Title: Ah, nostalgia.
Post by: Mandark on February 11, 2009, 03:14:12 AM
The credit stuff is old, but relatively under-the-radar news.

Back in 2005 a really egregious bankruptcy "reform" bill passed, which made it harder to get personal debt relief.  The usual liberal activists were against it but couldn't beat it back as they did with Social Security privatization that year.

Talking Points Memo set up a temporary guest blog specifically dedicated to the issue, where one of the writers was... Elizabeth Warren!  Here it is, (http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/bankruptcy/) still.

It still chaps my hide that Joe Biden was the sponsor for this thing in the Senate.  He actually has a very populist record on economic issues, but banking was a constituent industry for him.

In one of the debates Obama said you couldn't allow cross-state competition among insurance companies or they'd all find the state with the laws most tilted in their favor, like the credit industry had done with Delaware.  Insider baseball, but I appreciated it.

Warren's on the TARP oversight board now, which is good cause she's a mensch.

Anyways, the Credit Cardholders Bill of Rights passed the House but was never put to a vote in the Senate.  Coulda been killed any number of ways, since it one Senator can stop a bill if it doesn't have too much momentum.

Definitely should be done, but it might get lost in the shuffle over the stimulus, with further bailouts, healthcare, and energy on the horizon.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 11, 2009, 04:18:42 AM
(http://media.caglecartoons.com/preview/%7b0a5d100c-9a0b-4d37-be68-dd8e84c622a1%7d.gif)
 :rofl
Title: Re: What would you do, not where do you want to wind up.
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 11, 2009, 08:16:21 AM
I'm getting the implication that we should let the market self-correct and trust that it will mete out the pain with efficiency and morality, eventually leading to your desired conclusion.  Tell me if I'm wrong.

With regard to the housing market yes.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 11, 2009, 08:18:11 AM
holy shit, I was looking at a site that tracks political cartoons and I saw this one. I can't believe someone could get away with making this  :lol
(http://www.caglecartoons.com/images/preview/%7Bdca8eaa5-9c6c-44d0-ae6b-080f4e9b16c0%7D.gif)

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 11, 2009, 11:46:11 AM
Quote
Negotiators on Capitol Hill wrangling with reconciling the House and Senate versions of the stimulus package have come to an agreement on the top line figure for the recovery bill: $789.5-billion, Democratic and Congressional sources tell me and my colleague Rick Klein

GOP sources say that negotiators are moving toward a deal but caution that it has not been finalized.

This is less than either the $838-billion passed by the Senate, or the $820-billion passed by the House. Committees have been told to get back to leadership with any problems meeting that figure by 11 am today.

The compromise scales back the tax credits for auto and home purchases and other tax cuts. It also restores some of the House education funding that the Obama administration has called "crucial." restored.


http://blogs.abcnews.com/george/2009/02/stimulus-agreem.html (http://blogs.abcnews.com/george/2009/02/stimulus-agreem.html)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 11, 2009, 12:01:37 PM
I won't be critical of the education stuff until I see details .. but I just hope the money is funneled through the states as they are best equipped to handle how the money should be doled out.

I'm not a huge fan of new school construction. I see too many times where a district builds these grand palaces with their free money and then are coming back to the taxpayer 3 years later because they didn't realize how much it would cost to maintain/heat these monstrosities. I would rather see them take their existing structures and modernize them.



Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eric P on February 11, 2009, 12:03:22 PM
Quote
By Alex Castellanos
CNN Contributor
Decrease font Decrease font
Enlarge font Enlarge font

Editor's Note: Republican strategist Alex Castellanos was a campaign consultant for Mitt Romney's presidential campaign and has worked on more than half a dozen presidential campaigns. Castellanos is a partner in National Media Inc., a political and public affairs consulting firm that specializes in advertising.
Alex Castellanos says stimulus bill is a cover for a bold plan for government to rule key parts of private sector.

Alex Castellanos says stimulus bill is a cover for a bold plan for government to rule key parts of private sector.

(CNN) -- Two Congressmen walk into a bar to watch President Obama's first prime-time press conference. The Democrat says to the Republican....

D: Just watch the president tonight and you'll see how to get this economy back on track. Monopolies.

R: Monopolies?

D: Monopolies so big they will shame Parker Brothers and make them put the board game in a bigger box. Monopolies so huge, they'll make railroad tycoon Cornelius Vanderbilt look like a push-cart operator.

R: Why monopolies?

D: In these desperate times, we can't afford to let Americans choose inefficient cars or wasteful health care. We can't let innovation run wild on Wall Street or Main Street. We have to make sure Americans are secure in their health care and jobs, their incomes and energy.

To serve the greater good, we have to organize America's economy so it achieves the best possible ends for all Americans. We can't leave that to chance. Who knows what might happen if individual Americans make those choices in a free market and organize themselves?

R: A little less freedom, a lot more organization, all for the collective good?

D: My friend, we need a directed economy, where we limit people's choices to those that serve the best social ends. Our nation's development is best controlled by monopolies, not some atomistic economy where Americans are free to make almost any choice and organize bottom-up, according to their own whims. That means, big, honking, all-powerful monopolies.

R: But during the campaign, Obama talked about change, fueling "bottom-up prosperity." This sounds like the same old, top-down, industrial-age stuff Democrats have been pitching for years.

D: You betcha! Bottom-up campaign rhetoric just ran into the top-down Democratic establishment from Washington. Guess who won. We're going to create monopolies in the biggest sectors of the economy, starting with banking and financial services. Even after the meltdown, that's still the largest stock market sector, 16 percent of the S&P.

R: Follow the money.

D: Exactly. With massive regulation, caps on pay and restrictions on risk and competition, we can turn the entire financial sector into a cross between a public utility and the DMV.

R: And then?

D: We'll create an energy monopoly that would make J. D. Rockefeller look like a gas station attendant. If it has anything to do with energy, we will control it, plan it and direct it. You are going to love your windmill.

R: I'm not feeling so good.

D: That's next. A health care monopoly alone will organize another 16 percent of the economy. Choice and diversity are great, but not so much in health care. We'll throw in $20 billion at the start for paperless health records. Data, my friend, is power. You know where we will go: Cost controls. Restricted formularies. Nancy Pelosi can be your doctor. You don't need a lot of choice. Just a good choice. Or a good-enough choice. Cough for me.

R: Watch that. I'm leaving.

D: Now that you mention it, we can't forget the good old American auto industry. To borrow from Henry Ford, consumers can pick any color car they want, as long as it is green.

R: Who are you going to get to run these monopolies? You are dealing with increasingly complex economic networks. How are you going to coordinate the sophisticated relationships, the subtle interests and ever-changing needs of millions of American consumers? Americans have traditionally done that themselves, in a natural and organic way, one to another, through the market. Who is smart enough to replace all that?

D: Congress.

R: You are making this stuff up. The president isn't talking about huge government-run monopolies. All he's talking about is the stimulus bill. iReport.com: Share your thoughts on the stimulus package

D: Of course. That's the beauty of the thing. As long as we call it "stimulus," we can pass almost anything that expands the power of government to command people's lives. Why do you think Newsweek's cover says, "We Are All Socialists Now?"

R: I need a drink. Don't they serve Congressmen in this bar?

D: No. But you can buy one from a lobbyist.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/10/castellanos.monopoly/index.html?eref=rss_latest
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 11, 2009, 12:11:27 PM
Rassmussen is saying support for the stimulus package is growing amongst the public again. Very good news. Republicans have lost control of the spin war after monday it seems.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 11, 2009, 12:18:40 PM
Quote
D: Of course. That's the beauty of the thing. As long as we call it "stimulus," we can pass almost anything that expands the power of government to command people's lives.

Stimulus packages are dependent on there being a bad economy. Climate change has the potential to last much longer.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 11, 2009, 12:28:55 PM
Rassmussen is saying support for the stimulus package is growing amongst the public again. Very good news. Republicans have lost control of the spin war after monday it seems.

The only thing that matters is how well it actually helps.

There's a bit of a conspiracy theory making the rounds though - Obama built up hype for a huge bank rescue plan. Geithner comes out with nothing. The market tanks. People get ever more concerned. Support for stimulus increases.

 
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Crushed on February 11, 2009, 12:29:12 PM
holy shit, I was looking at a site that tracks political cartoons and I saw this one. I can't believe someone could get away with making this  :lol

(http://i44.tinypic.com/2uo6s6t.gif)

You don't know political cartoons.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 11, 2009, 12:43:34 PM
Rassmussen is saying support for the stimulus package is growing amongst the public again. Very good news. Republicans have lost control of the spin war after monday it seems.

The only thing that matters is how well it actually helps.

There's a bit of a conspiracy theory making the rounds though - Obama built up hype for a huge bank rescue plan. Geithner comes out with nothing. The market tanks. People get ever more concerned. Support for stimulus increases.

 

wasn't support above 65% even before Geithner's no show?  ::)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 11, 2009, 12:51:51 PM
wasn't support above 65% even before Geithner's no show?  ::)

Yea, in fact, the only people it was below 50 percent for were the republican voters.

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 11, 2009, 12:55:03 PM
wasn't support above 65% even before Geithner's no show?  ::)

Yea, in fact, the only people it was below 50 percent for were the republican voters.

Fortunately, there's fewer and fewer of them every cycle!
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: CajoleJuice on February 11, 2009, 12:56:03 PM
holy shit @ political cartoons
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 11, 2009, 12:58:08 PM
You know what's really disappointing about political cartoonists?  David Vitter goes and gets caught with hookers and is outed as having a diaper fetish, and I still haven't seen one cartoon about it yet.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 11, 2009, 12:58:58 PM
wait - what?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 11, 2009, 01:01:22 PM
wait - what?

Jesus Christ, Maurice.  You're out of your element.  Google "David Vitter + hookers + diapers".  I dare you.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 11, 2009, 01:05:14 PM
Vitter was the senator the other day who wanted to put an amendment in the stimulus package to ban fed. funding for the evil and vile Obama machine ACORN right?  :lol
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 11, 2009, 01:07:04 PM
Vitter was the senator the other day who wanted to put an amendment in the stimulus package to ban fed. funding for the evil and vile Obama machine ACORN right?  :lol

Oh yeah.  And he's made a big show out of opposing Hillary as SoS, Geithner, Holder etc.  He's got his reelection coming up in 2010 after all.  If Katrina hadn't happened and dislocated probably hundreds of thousands of lower income voters, he might stand a chance of losing, too.  Then again Louisiana loves their wacko politicians, so who knows.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 11, 2009, 01:11:57 PM
:rofl holy shit this is one of those "sanctity of marriage" guys
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 11, 2009, 01:13:06 PM
Rasmussen had support for the plan as low as 37% last week with a plurality opposing it.

And I can't find what poll Cheebs is referring to.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 11, 2009, 01:14:20 PM
:rofl holy shit this is one of those "sanctity of marriage" guys

Oh, it gets better.

[youtube=560,345]8y2cI7tyjVg[/youtube]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y2cI7tyjVg
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 11, 2009, 01:15:33 PM
Rasmussen had support for the plan as low as 37% last week with a plurality opposing it.

And I can't find what poll Cheebs is referring to.
Rasmussen hasn't put numbers up yet but in their report this morning they note since Obama gave his address on monday stimulus support has risen.

And this is the most recent stimulus poll I can find:
(http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/spkmsc5sue2tgkahrvqrxq.gif)


The problems with the stimulus are for the most part considered the Republicans fault from the public's perspective.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: y2kev on February 11, 2009, 01:17:01 PM
lol republicans have left a dirty taste in everyone's mouth
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 11, 2009, 01:17:58 PM
omg Triumph  :lol

Yup here's the 37%
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/business/economic_stimulus_package/support_for_stimulus_package_falls_to_37

Sounds like Obama won the spin war, sorry SD
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 11, 2009, 01:21:13 PM
Republicans still get the blame even though they are out of power. :bow :bow
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 11, 2009, 01:21:15 PM
The Republican's problem is that the big lesson they've taken from the last two elections is that apparently the only reason the public at large (aside from the South, where there's the whole inbreeding/racism thing) has turned away from them is that they spent too much money.  Nevermind the Terry Schiavo fiasco.  Nevermind Katrina, firing US Attorneys and otherwise politicizing the Justice dept. to the point that Eric Freaking Holder is an improvement, torture, illegal spying on average US citizens, bungling Iraq and letting the people that actually attacked us wander around free.  Nope, it's all the fact that they spent too much money and doubled the debt!

Didn't McCain run on that?  Gonna cut wasteful gubmint spending?  No more earmarks?  Yeah.  How'd that go?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Rman on February 11, 2009, 01:21:35 PM
It's weird how this whole stimulus debate is being framed.  For a long time the dems have been considered the party of no ideas, but right now the GOP is kinda fitting into that role, not really offering clear alternatives alternatives to the package, only saying add more tax cuts and reduce critical funding.  You can't succeed being the party of No.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Flannel Boy on February 11, 2009, 01:22:03 PM
Vitter asked for God's forgiveness, so everything is cool now.

Not making this up:
"Several years ago, I asked for and received forgiveness from God."

I can understand how you can ask for God's forgiveness, but how exactly do you receive it?

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 11, 2009, 01:24:46 PM
omg Triumph  :lol

Yup here's the 37%
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/business/economic_stimulus_package/support_for_stimulus_package_falls_to_37

Sounds like Obama won the spin war, sorry SD

That Rasmussen number was pretty obviously an outlier. (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/2/10/104017/435/4/695626)

Pollster  Support level (previous where available)

Gallup    52 (53)  2/4
CNN       54       2/7-8
Pew       51 (57)  2/4-8 
Rasmussen 37 (42)  2/4
CBS       51 (63)  2/2-4
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 11, 2009, 01:26:38 PM
And those polls were all before the obama press conference that got over 50 million viewers, and I doubt Rasmussen is the only pollster to notice a sharp rise in support for the bill after monday.

Public supports the stimulus package and claim the problems with it are the republicans fault. I love it.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on February 11, 2009, 01:28:32 PM
Quote
I can understand how you can ask for God's forgiveness, but how exactly do you receive it?

He hasn't been struck by lightning, has he?  So there you go.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Rman on February 11, 2009, 01:28:45 PM
The Republican's problem is that the big lesson they've taken from the last two elections is that apparently the only reason the public at large (aside from the South, where there's the whole inbreeding/racism thing) has turned away from them is that they spent too much money.  Nevermind the Terry Schiavo fiasco.  Nevermind Katrina, firing US Attorneys and otherwise politicizing the Justice dept. to the point that Eric Freaking Holder is an improvement, torture, illegal spying on average US citizens, bungling Iraq and letting the people that actually attacked us wander around free.  Nope, it's all the fact that they spent too much money and doubled the debt!

Didn't McCain run on that?  Gonna cut wasteful gubmint spending?  No more earmarks?  Yeah.  How'd that go?
That's the thing.  If they had stuck to their fiscal conservative guns during the Bush Adminstration they would have much better bargaining position.  But the general public sees through this fiscal conservative BS they are pushing, especially after approving huge tax cuts that benefited mostly the rich and two expensive wars.  One war that many think was unnecessary.  The dems aren't absolved of any blame, though, but congressional dems have never tried to claim that they were fiscal conservatives in the first place.

Not only that, but the GOP is just sending the wrong message to the American people.  Hey, it's okay to spends tons of money and lives on useless wars, but improving infrastructure, providing better unemployment benefits, helping ailing states, many who are almost bankrupt, no we can't have that.  The GOP is really becoming irrelevant these days with these attitudes.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 11, 2009, 01:30:06 PM
So Vitter was visiting prostitutes while he had kids - daughters. smh
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Rman on February 11, 2009, 01:31:20 PM
So Vitter was visiting prostitutes while he had kids - daughters. smh
Is that so hard to believe?  Spitzer has three daughters. 
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 11, 2009, 01:31:52 PM
I love it when I see republicans compare being against the stimulus package is like the liberals who opposed the iraq war at the time.

Because obviously giving needed funding to the public at a time of an economic crisis is very comparable to a unneeded war that killed over 4,000 Americans. Clearly both are dignified stands!
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 11, 2009, 01:34:10 PM
So Vitter was visiting prostitutes while he had kids - daughters. smh

Of course. When else does a man need a hooker? It's not when he's married with no kids.



Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 11, 2009, 01:35:09 PM
Yeah, I saw that Gallup poll. Its interesting to say the least. There was a good analysis of the competing polls on Pollster.

Not sure if there was a ever a spin war to win though. Obama was always going to get something passed. He set a signing date for President's Day. Not like the REPs have done anything to hamper that goal. Unless you feel they should roll over and give the DEMs exactly what they want. Going forward, the only thing that matters is how much the plan helps. I think he made a pretty big mistake in the presser Monday by saying the first metric on which to measure the plan is the unemployment rate. That's not going to stop getting worse much less improve anytime soon. We'll see how long the patience lasts.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 11, 2009, 01:35:15 PM
So Vitter was visiting prostitutes while he had kids - daughters. smh

Of course. When else does a man need a hooker? It's not when he's married with no kids.

As someone who has tallied the costs involved with dating a woman and compared it to the "suggested donations" on CL's erotic services page, I heartily disagree.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 11, 2009, 01:36:37 PM
sd- you'll have to forgive democrats, we're used to our experience in the minority where in fact we DID roll over and present our puckered up starfishes whenever the other side asked us
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 11, 2009, 01:38:03 PM
As someone who has tallied the costs involved with dating a woman and compared it to the "suggested donations" on CL's erotic services page, I heartily disagree.

Most men don't think that logically. They have a false bravado or morality that prevents them from doing it. They would rather goto a bar and spend 20 dollars on drinks and hope to get lucky.



 --- ---


Most of the Poligaf kiddies are so blinded by their Republican hate, they don't see the genius of Obama. He is pretending like the Republicans are this big obstacle he needs to overcome to get this passed, when he has had this thing the whole time. He then can deliver that message directly to places like Indiana (newly turned blue state) or other pockets of America.

Obama knows the game. He only needed to flip a few moderates (Dems and Reps) and he was getting this thing done. Demonizing the Republicans was just for sport and for 2010.


Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 11, 2009, 01:38:32 PM
David Vitter's wife mocked Hillary when Bill cheated on her saying she'd never stay with a husband if he cheated on her.

Guess who is still married to Vitter?  (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/MastahCrushed/Emote/emot-smug.gif)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 11, 2009, 01:42:06 PM
As someone who has tallied the costs involved with dating a woman and compared it to the "suggested donations" on CL's erotic services page, I heartily disagree.

Most men don't think that logically. They have a false bravado or morality that prevents them from doing it. They would rather goto a bar and spend 20 dollars on drinks and hope to get lucky.

Those guys are dumb.  Not to mention the mental/emotional capital you have to expend when you're dealing with a woman.  I had a one night stand just ONCE, and even though drinks/food that night cost me about $60, I also had to deal with her the next morning (awkward!) and dodge phone calls for about a week.  Even after that there were awkward random encounters out in bars or at concerts where I'd run into her, not to mention the fact that we had overlap in our social circles (unknown at the time!) so there was some awkward questions and finger pointing from friends.  Far better to pony up the $150-200 an hour for a hooker.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Flannel Boy on February 11, 2009, 01:42:46 PM


Most men don't think that logically. They have a false bravado or morality that prevents them from doing it. They would rather goto a bar and spend 20 dollars on drinks and hope to get lucky.


Or stay at home crying while listening to Rilo Kiley.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 11, 2009, 01:44:14 PM
Interesting - apperently the tax credit has been reduced from $500/$1000 to $400/$800.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 11, 2009, 01:45:46 PM
Interesting - apperently the tax credit has been reduced from $500/$1000 to $400/$800.

Yeah, apparently Obama really wanted some education money put back in.  I'm still overly annoyed that this thing is about 45% tax cuts.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 11, 2009, 01:47:17 PM
Those guys are dumb.  Not to mention the mental/emotional capital you have to expend when you're dealing with a woman.  I had a one night stand just ONCE, and even though drinks/food that night cost me about $60, I also had to deal with her the next morning (awkward!) and dodge phone calls for about a week.  Even after that there were awkward random encounters out in bars or at concerts where I'd run into her, not to mention the fact that we had overlap in our social circles (unknown at the time!) so there was some awkward questions and finger pointing from friends.  Far better to pony up the $150-200 an hour for a hooker.

Was that the Olympic girl? I thought you said she was a fourner?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 11, 2009, 01:48:41 PM
Those guys are dumb.  Not to mention the mental/emotional capital you have to expend when you're dealing with a woman.  I had a one night stand just ONCE, and even though drinks/food that night cost me about $60, I also had to deal with her the next morning (awkward!) and dodge phone calls for about a week.  Even after that there were awkward random encounters out in bars or at concerts where I'd run into her, not to mention the fact that we had overlap in our social circles (unknown at the time!) so there was some awkward questions and finger pointing from friends.  Far better to pony up the $150-200 an hour for a hooker.

Was that the Olympic girl? I thought you said she was a fourner?

Nah, I hung out with her for a couple of weeks afterwards.  This was a chick that kind of looked like Bjork, but chubbier.  The olympics girl was the hottest chick I ever nailed.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 11, 2009, 01:49:25 PM
Interesting - apperently the tax credit has been reduced from $500/$1000 to $400/$800.

Yeah, apparently Obama really wanted some education money put back in.  I'm still overly annoyed that this thing is about 45% tax cuts.

Isn't it 35%?
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/10/washington/10stimulus-web.html?_r=2&hp
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 11, 2009, 01:51:38 PM
Bobby Jindal is going to give the republican response to the state of the union later this month. Interesting.

http://www.wafb.com/Global/story.asp?S=9826923&nav=menu57_2
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Brehvolution on February 11, 2009, 01:59:14 PM
From PD's article:

Quote
Senator James Inhofe, Republican of Oklahoma, complained that for all the spending in the bill, it does not provide a sufficient number of public works projects. ,

“If we’re going to spend all this money, let’s at least get something for it, provide some jobs and get some roads and highways and bridges, things this country really needs,” he said.

 :dizzy

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 11, 2009, 02:02:05 PM
Had no idea there was a SotU address in the first year of a new president's term.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 11, 2009, 02:46:58 PM
It's a well kept secret
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on February 11, 2009, 02:52:40 PM
Quote from: siamesedreamer
With regard to the housing market yes.

You seem to be pushing that strategy wrt everything.  for example you want businesses to pay better wages but are vehemently against the minimum wage and unionization.  So I'll repeat, what would you do?

Quote from: ToxicAdam
Most of the Poligaf kiddies are so blinded by their Republican hate, they don't see the genius of Obama. He is pretending like the Republicans are this big obstacle he needs to overcome to get this passed, when he has had this thing the whole time. He then can deliver that message directly to places like Indiana (newly turned blue state) or other pockets of America.

Obama knows the game. He only needed to flip a few moderates (Dems and Reps) and he was getting this thing done. Demonizing the Republicans was just for sport and for 2010.

You ever notice you have a slight tendency to ascribe complex, nefarious motives to people on the other side of the aisle?  I'm just throwing this out there.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 11, 2009, 02:56:41 PM
Interesting - apperently the tax credit has been reduced from $500/$1000 to $400/$800.

Yeah, apparently Obama really wanted some education money put back in.  I'm still overly annoyed that this thing is about 45% tax cuts.

Didn't the CBO come out and say it was more like 30ish?


What exactly is wrong with what Inhofe said? Just about every state in the union has a point A to point B that needs to be connected or a bridge that is overloaded with rush time traffic.

Those type of highway construction jobs are accessible across all types of socio-economic groups.

This bill could have been a great opportunity for funding of new oil refineries, but no one even seems to care about our severe shortage. They still pretend like a miracle alternative fuel is going to fall out of the sky within the next 20 years.

You ever notice you have a slight tendency to ascribe complex, nefarious motives to people on the other side of the aisle?  I'm just throwing this out there.

Since when is assuring your side keeps winning elections seen as "nefarious" and "complex"?

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Beardo on February 11, 2009, 02:59:10 PM
This bill could have been a great opportunity for funding of new oil refineries, but no one even seems to care about our severe shortage. They still pretend like a miracle alternative fuel is going to fall out of the sky within the next 20 years.

Man bear pig?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 11, 2009, 03:04:46 PM
This bill could have been a great opportunity for funding of new oil refineries, but no one even seems to care about our severe shortage. They still pretend like a miracle alternative fuel is going to fall out of the sky within the next 20 years.

Man bear pig?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/MastahCrushed/Emote/emot-smug.gif)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on February 11, 2009, 03:07:03 PM
TA:  I'm just saying, yo.

Why do we need refineries, anyway?  Are they really the limiting factor in current or future US oil production?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eric P on February 11, 2009, 03:21:44 PM
"Pork" Bailout Bill Could Ban Guns For Millions Of Americans
-- Ask your Senators to oppose HR 1

Gun Owners of America E-Mail Alert
8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151
Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX: 703-321-8408
http://www.gunowners.org


"HR 1 is about more than just pork.  Millions of gun owners stand to
lose their gun rights without any due process." -- Larry Pratt, GOA
Executive Director


Wednesday, February 11, 2009

The Obama administration is putting a lot of pressure on Congress to
slam through the most recent $800+ billion bailout package before anyone
has an opportunity to read it.

The Obama administration intones that the details are unimportant.  The
only thing that matters is the "bigness."  And, by shipping a bill of
nearly $900 billion (plus interest) to our children and grandchildren,
the package is really, really big -- bigger, in fact, than the budget of
our entire government for the first 170 years of our country's
existence.

But now that some of the details are finally starting to leak out of
Washington, Gun Owners -- and a lot of other analysts -- are beginning
to look at the fine print.  And some of it is particularly scary.

Of particular concern to gun owners are sections 13101 through 13434 of
HR 1, which would set up the infrastructure to computerize the medical
records of ALL AMERICANS in a government-coordinated database.

True, the bill doesn't mandate that the data will be in a giant computer
under the Oval Office.  But it does mandate that your medical records be
reduced to a computerized form which is available to it in a second.

This it would do by establishing a National Coordinator for Health
Information Technology -- tasked with, among other things, "providing
information to help guide medical decisions at the time and place of
care."

It should be scary enough that a government bureaucrat is directed by
statute to try to influence your doctor's decisions with respect to your
medical care.

But of even greater concern to gun owners is the fact that a
government-coordinated database (which government can freely access)
will now contain all records of government-provided and private
psychiatric treatment -- including, in particular, the drugs which were
prescribed.

Remember last year's "NICS Improvement Act" -- otherwise known as the
Veterans Disarmament Act?  This law codified ATF's attempts to make you
a prohibited person on the basis of a government psychiatrist's finding
that you are a "danger" -- without a finding by any court.  Well,
roughly 150,000 battle-scarred veterans have already been unfairly
stripped of their gun rights by the government.

But people who, as kids, were diagnosed with Attention Deficit
Disorder... or seniors with Alzheimer's... or police with Post-Traumatic
Stress Disorder... or people who are now theoretically covered by the
new law... these people have, generally, not suffered the consequences
of its sanctions -- YET.  And the chief reason is that their records are
not easily available to the government in a central, easily retrievable,
computerized form.

The bailout bill would change all of that.  It would push increasingly
hard to force your private psychiatrist or government-sanctioned
psychiatrist to turn over your psychiatric records to a massive
database. This would be mandated immediately if your doctor does
business with the government.

This would supposedly save Medicare money in connection with medical
treatment.  And, the sponsors insist, they would work very hard to
protect your privacy.

But this turns the concept of "privacy" on its head.   The privacy which
is MOST important is privacy from the prying eyes of government -- not
privacy of government data against the prying eyes of others.  After
all, many government data bases have been hacked in recent years, with
mountains of information stolen.

So, once the government has access to these computerized psychiatric
records, the stage will be set for using that database to take away the
gun rights of those with Alzheimer's, those with ADD, and those with
PTSD.

ACTION:  Write your two senators.  Urge them to vote against the bailout
bill (HR 1) until it is stripped of provisions which would turn your
psychiatric records over to a central government-coordinated database
against your will -- without you getting your day in court.

You can go to the Gun Owners Legislative Action Center at
http://www.gunowners.org/activism.htm to send your Senators the
pre-written e-mail message below.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on February 11, 2009, 03:28:39 PM
:duh
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 11, 2009, 03:32:02 PM
What does medical records being on computers have to do with guns?

Also do they realize their medical records are already recorded (just on paper)? That's why they are called RECORDS.


wtf.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 11, 2009, 03:33:21 PM
I want Alzheimers patients to be fully armed
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 11, 2009, 03:38:04 PM

Why do we need refineries, anyway?  Are they really the limiting factor in current or future US oil production?

What GC said. Over the past 30 years the amount of refineries has been cut in half, but consumption has increased. In that time, Big oil has slowly gobbled up all the independent refineries and leaned on government to close down others. A handful of companies now control a vast majority of the capacity in America. Environmentalists and NIMBY thinking hasn't helped matters either.

From a national security standpoint, it's ridiculous that a natural disaster in one small area of the country can cripple supplies for weeks at a time.

Check out this link:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jamie-court/memos-show-oil-companies-_b_6980.html
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on February 11, 2009, 04:15:32 PM
Okay, but agglomeration and consolidation are separate issues.

I don't see expanding the long-term oil infrastructure as a terribly smart move at this stage of the game.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 11, 2009, 04:16:00 PM
What does medical records being on computers have to do with guns?

Also do they realize their medical records are already recorded (just on paper)? That's why they are called RECORDS.


wtf.

I bet millions of people are going to wind up believing this bullshit. Who would think that such a simple, common sense thing like this could be flipped on its head to mean LOL NO MORE GUNS.

I file patient info at my dad's practice and it's a fucking pain.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 11, 2009, 06:47:44 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/10/julio-osegueda-florida-co_n_165673.html
wtf  :lol
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eric P on February 11, 2009, 06:50:10 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/10/julio-osegueda-florida-co_n_165673.html
wtf  :lol

finally

the left's Joe The Plumber

let's turn this kid into a left wing media darling
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Crushed on February 11, 2009, 06:52:10 PM
meanwhile, republicans don't know when the great depression happened http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2009/02/steve_austria_r_oh_doesnt_know_when_the_depression_happened.php
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 11, 2009, 06:52:14 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/10/julio-osegueda-florida-co_n_165673.html
wtf  :lol

finally

the left's Joe The Plumber

let's turn this kid into a left wing media darling

Too late, he was on Countdown with Keith Olbermann last night.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Brehvolution on February 11, 2009, 06:52:28 PM
They can interview him from the drive through.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eric P on February 11, 2009, 06:54:52 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/10/julio-osegueda-florida-co_n_165673.html
wtf  :lol

finally

the left's Joe The Plumber

let's turn this kid into a left wing media darling

Too late, he was on Countdown with Keith Olbermann last night.

hell yeah

now let's send him to israel to report on some conflict there or something
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 11, 2009, 06:58:08 PM
We should send him to Darfur.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on February 11, 2009, 07:04:06 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Recovery_and_Reinvestment_Act_of_2009#cite_note-16
The current Wikipedia entry for ARRA has a whole section on health IT reform for which the cites are all to a WSJ editorial.  wtf

I might fix it later.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eric P on February 11, 2009, 08:07:22 PM
We should send him to Darfur.

more like retardarfur, amirite?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on February 12, 2009, 12:03:59 AM
meanwhile, republicans don't know when the great depression happened http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2009/02/steve_austria_r_oh_doesnt_know_when_the_depression_happened.php

Eh, I'm willing to believe he meant "made it worse" rather than "caused it."  You gotta be charitable towards live speech and how easy it is to screw up.

The real problem is the underlying meme, that FDR's policies harmed the economy.  Amity Shlaes has been a one-woman revisionism movement on this, for example, and most conservatives are willing to hop on board.

This debate has clarified why it's important to fight over the past.  You let people rewrite it to suit themselves, and it leads to real consequences later.  Take all that mythos about how we were just about to win in Vietnam cause we had finally sussed out the counterinsurgency racket, which fed directly into the willingness to invade/continue occupying Iraq.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 12, 2009, 12:11:01 AM
meanwhile, republicans don't know when the great depression happened http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2009/02/steve_austria_r_oh_doesnt_know_when_the_depression_happened.php

Eh, I'm willing to believe he meant "made it worse" rather than "caused it."  You gotta be charitable towards live speech and how easy it is to screw up.

The real problem is the underlying meme, that FDR's policies harmed the economy.  Amity Shlaes has been a one-woman revisionism movement on this, for example, and most conservatives are willing to hop on board.

This debate has clarified why it's important to fight over the past.  You let people rewrite it to suit themselves, and it leads to real consequences later.  Take all that mythos about how we were just about to win in Vietnam cause we had finally sussed out the counterinsurgency racket, which fed directly into the willingness to invade/continue occupying Iraq.

Hey we had Obama in front of 50 million Americans outright mock the people who claim FDR's policies harmed the economy at least. So that was addressed as publicly as possible.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Beardo on February 12, 2009, 12:51:13 AM
Whaaa!! I work at McDonalds and I don't get benefits. Please Obama do something!! Hey taco, try getting a real job.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 12, 2009, 12:52:47 AM
Whaaa!! I work at McDonalds and I don't get benefits. Please Obama do something!!


Hey distinguished effete fellow, try getting a real job. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/MastahCrushed/Emote/emot-smug.gif)

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 12, 2009, 10:50:26 AM
Whaaa!! I work at McDonalds and I don't get benefits. Please Obama do something!!


Hey distinguished effete fellow, try getting a real job. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/MastahCrushed/Emote/emot-smug.gif)



:rofl

total anal obliteration
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 12, 2009, 01:23:30 PM
So....sd still going to claim that more people are against this package than for it like you kept doing for a few pages?

(http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/cshnqwvbg0kphvd5_ilhzw.gif)

33% opposition.  :lol Basically the same as the amount of people who still approve of the job Bush did. The very definition of dead-enders.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Crushed on February 12, 2009, 01:26:52 PM
It's so hilarious when I look in the paper and see conservatives columnists and cartoonists seriously suggesting that Obama is now hated, honeymoon over, etc., and that everyone hates the stimulus package but OBAMA IS FORCING IT ON US.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 12, 2009, 01:30:49 PM
"41% of Americans either don't support or don't have an opinion on the stimulus. That's nearly half the country (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/MastahCrushed/Emote/emot-smug.gif)"
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: tiesto on February 12, 2009, 01:40:53 PM
Hmm, pretty interesting stuff I found on PoliGAF of all places:

Iceland, who took up massive free-market economics in the early 90's, was one of the first and hardest hit countries:
http://www.progressive-economics.ca/2008/10/14/milton-and-the-meltdown-in-iceland/ (http://www.progressive-economics.ca/2008/10/14/milton-and-the-meltdown-in-iceland/)

Meanwhile, France, who has long resisted free-market economics, is having the smallest drop out of any European nation:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123439232046574705.html (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123439232046574705.html)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 12, 2009, 01:53:03 PM
I really had hoped that once Obama was president I wouldn't see fucking gallup polls anymore. I don't give a fuck what America thinks. 4/10 of them couldn't even tell you who the vice president is.

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on February 12, 2009, 01:53:18 PM
:bow socialism :bow2


:piss free-market nerds :piss2
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 12, 2009, 02:04:01 PM
I really had hoped that once Obama was president I wouldn't see fucking gallup polls anymore. I don't give a fuck what America thinks. 4/10 of them couldn't even tell you who the vice president is.


I posted it mostly because sd kept posting that poll that "only 37%" of the country supported the stimulus.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on February 12, 2009, 02:22:07 PM
:bow socialist nerds :bow2
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 12, 2009, 02:35:48 PM
Why are you creating fake arguments? Oh - my subjective poll is more accurate than your subjective poll!

Insert [SD ANNIHILATED] weeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!

As I stated yesterday, the bill is done and the only thing that matters going forward are the results. Let's see how the numbers look this time next year.  



Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 12, 2009, 02:41:36 PM
Pelosi and Reid are a friggin joke.

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2009/02/dissension_on_t.html

Quote
Dissension on the stimulus
 
While President Obama and the Senate are fine with the stimulus deal that appears headed for final votes in Congress on Friday and Obama's signature on Monday, the House is another matter.

And it's not just Republicans, who unanimously opposed the bill the first time around and continue to rail against the deal struck by the House-Senate conference committee on Wednesday.

Some House Democrats are upset with some of the changes made to preserve the support of three Republicans in the Senate, who wield virtual veto-power.

And there are reports that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi was ticked off that Harry Reid, the top Senate Democrat, announced the compromise Wednesday afternoon before her rank-and-file had signed off. She is expected to say more at a 3 p.m. news conference.

Meanwhile, top House Republican John Boehner's office released a statement with the accusation: "Democrats pile up the pork, but leave scraps for small business."

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 12, 2009, 02:45:35 PM
:drudge
Source my be illsuited for sreaming crybabies
:drudge

Federal employee whistleblower protection was stripped from the stimulus bill.

http://www.federaltimes.com/federal-times-blog/2009/02/11/no-whistleblower-protections-for-feds-in-stimulus/ (http://www.federaltimes.com/federal-times-blog/2009/02/11/no-whistleblower-protections-for-feds-in-stimulus/)

That's really encouraging. Shows you how much money they think this thing wastes. Still waiting for hopenchange.

bubububut recovery.gov  ::)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eric P on February 12, 2009, 02:50:26 PM
:drudge
Source my be illsuited for sreaming crybabies
:drudge

Federal employee whistleblower protection was stripped from the stimulus bill.

http://www.federaltimes.com/federal-times-blog/2009/02/11/no-whistleblower-protections-for-feds-in-stimulus/ (http://www.federaltimes.com/federal-times-blog/2009/02/11/no-whistleblower-protections-for-feds-in-stimulus/)

That's really encouraging. Shows you how much money they think this thing wastes. Still waiting for hopenchange.

bubububut recovery.gov  ::)

it's spelled "screaming"

but following their link back just shows one sentence stating it was removed.  kind of curious as to why that is.

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eric P on February 12, 2009, 02:52:27 PM
Quote
Talking Points Memo, which cited a source close to the final bill, said the provision was removed by Republican Sen. Susan Collins (R-ME), one of the senators brokering the compromise.

 :teehee

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Whisteblower_protections_stripped_from_stimulus_bill_0212.html

oh those rascals!

Title: I for one welcome this newfound interest in government transparency
Post by: Mandark on February 12, 2009, 03:00:47 PM
Let's all feign surprise that Republican legislators oppose whistleblower protections (http://www.whistleblower.org/doc/2008/DeMint%20RSC%20Packet.pdf).
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 12, 2009, 03:01:12 PM
So she switches sides to get the bill through then cuts out an important provision for protecting the taxpayer. You just can't make this stuff up.  :usacry
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 12, 2009, 03:01:18 PM
SD annihilated
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Tauntaun on February 12, 2009, 03:03:58 PM
Can we nuke DC yet?  I mean really, these people suck.  :maf
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eric P on February 12, 2009, 03:04:30 PM
So she switches sides to get the bill through then cuts out an important provision for protecting the taxpayer. You just can't make this stuff up.  :usacry


she's probably a democratic double agent who ran as a republican because obama knew he'd need more than 60 to push through his illegal socialist agenda.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 12, 2009, 03:04:59 PM
Oh - my subjective poll is more accurate than your subjective poll!

Actually sir mine IS more accurate because it was taken after Obama's address to the nation, and it is in line with EVERY poll released so far except one, your old one being the outlier.

So yes, mine is more accurate.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 12, 2009, 03:10:27 PM
she's probably a democratic double agent who ran as a republican because obama knew he'd need more than 60 to push through his illegal socialist agenda.

Whatever she is, Obama will still get all the glory or blame for what happens.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 12, 2009, 03:11:19 PM
stimulus overview
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29160311

nice
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 12, 2009, 03:12:43 PM
she's probably a democratic double agent who ran as a republican because obama knew he'd need more than 60 to push through his illegal socialist agenda.

Whatever she is, Obama will still get all the glory or blame for what happens.
You seem to forget, it doesn't matter if the package works amazingly.

As long as the economy improves AT ALL in the next 4 years is all that matters. If the economy is better in Nov 2012 than it is in Jan 2009 then Obama and the package will be seen as genius, regardless if the stimulus package "worked".
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 12, 2009, 03:16:16 PM
Quote
Talking Points Memo, which cited a source close to the final bill, said the provision was removed by Republican Sen. Susan Collins (R-ME), one of the senators brokering the compromise.

 :teehee

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Whisteblower_protections_stripped_from_stimulus_bill_0212.html

oh those rascals!



lmfao, SD should just give up

You just can't make this stuff up.

Well, you gave it your best shot
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on February 12, 2009, 03:16:32 PM
I read (on TPM?) that the centrists behind the Senate compromise are all from states with governors of the opposite party.  That would go a long way towards explaining why they cut the state aid in half, despite it being some of the most effective spending.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 12, 2009, 03:18:57 PM
Poor sd, in 2012 when the economy is showing improvement shouting "BUT THE STIMULUS DIDNT WORK" will do jackshit.

Unless you actually think there will be no improvement at all for 5 years straight.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 12, 2009, 03:20:55 PM
I'm still having trouble as to why the whistleblower protection cut was agreed to. The DEMs are writing it. Why don't they put it in?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 12, 2009, 03:21:58 PM
I'm still having trouble as to why the whistleblower protection cut was agreed to. The DEMs are writing it. Why don't they put it in?
Because they need the 3 republican senators and one of them wanted it out?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 12, 2009, 03:22:04 PM
I'm still having trouble as to why the whistleblower protection cut was agreed to. The DEMs are writing it. Why don't they put it in?

If only they'd gotten a 60 seat majority, right SD?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on February 12, 2009, 03:23:35 PM
Quote from: siamesedreamer
There's still gotta be some way to blame this on the other team, right?

You gotta admire his tenacity.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 12, 2009, 03:25:00 PM
Poor sd, in 2012 when the economy is showing improvement shouting "BUT THE STIMULUS DIDNT WORK" will do jackshit.

Unless you actually think there will be no improvement at all for 5 years straight.

Show me a time when the economy didn't bounce back from a recession? Heck, Bush Sr. didn't do a damn thing during his (because he didn't believe it existed) and it still bounced back.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eric P on February 12, 2009, 03:28:56 PM
i wonder if we could create a moral outrage bubble of some sort?

"guys, outrage NEVER goes down!"
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 12, 2009, 03:29:07 PM
Unless you actually think there will be no improvement at all for 5 years straight.

I don't know.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7880189.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7880189.stm)
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10158959-38.html (http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10158959-38.html)

Some smart people are saying some really scary things.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 12, 2009, 03:30:59 PM
i wonder if we could create a moral outrage bubble of some sort?

"guys, outrage NEVER goes down!"

GET ME 10K SHARES OF RIGHTEOUS INDIGNATION!  IT'S GOING THROUGH THE ROOF!
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 12, 2009, 03:38:05 PM
The TPM thing is weird.

http://www.whistleblower.org/content/press_detail.cfm?press_id=1161 (http://www.whistleblower.org/content/press_detail.cfm?press_id=1161)

Why would she sponsor that, but want it taken out for the stimulus? Something isn't adding up.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Oblivion on February 12, 2009, 03:43:13 PM
Just throwin this out there, but how can you be both a socialist and an elitist?

you guys is weird  :-\
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 12, 2009, 04:18:24 PM
Judd Gregg has withdrawn his nomination for Commerce Secretary.

Cites 2010 Census Obama power grab as one of the reasons...
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 12, 2009, 04:27:02 PM
Fuck Gregg then. After the dirty politics Tom Delay and friends did with redistricting after the last census republicans have forfeited any right to complain about the White House doing this.

Glad the White House has far more in control over this, we need to make sure hispanics and other minorities get better representation in the House. This census should do that.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 12, 2009, 04:49:16 PM
:piss http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29165435/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29165435/) :piss2

 
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 12, 2009, 04:52:24 PM
Fuck Gregg then. After the dirty politics Tom Delay and friends did with redistricting after the last census republicans have forfeited any right to complain about the White House doing this.

Glad the White House has far more in control over this, we need to make sure hispanics and other minorities get better representation in the House. This census should do that.

Where's the CHANGE in preforming Delay-lite feats of census trickeration?  :smug
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on February 12, 2009, 04:52:41 PM
Quote
i wonder if we could create a moral outrage bubble of some sort?

"guys, outrage NEVER goes down!"

genius.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Brehvolution on February 12, 2009, 04:58:01 PM
:piss http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29165435/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29165435/) :piss2

 
I could piss on the subsidization part too, but banks need to let people re-structure loans. Fuck the banks.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eric P on February 12, 2009, 05:10:45 PM
Quote
About half-way through President Obama's press conference Monday night, he
had an unscripted question of his own. "All, Chuck Todd," the President
said, referring to NBC's White House correspondent. "Where's Chuck?" He had
the same strange question about Fox News's Major Garrett: "Where's Major?"

The problem wasn't the lighting in the East Room. The President was running
down a list of reporters preselected to ask questions. The White House had
decided in advance who would be allowed to question the President and who
was left out.


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123431418276770899.html
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: The Fake Shemp on February 12, 2009, 05:17:39 PM
That's par for the course, though.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Van Cruncheon on February 12, 2009, 05:40:25 PM
The TPM thing is weird.

http://www.whistleblower.org/content/press_detail.cfm?press_id=1161 (http://www.whistleblower.org/content/press_detail.cfm?press_id=1161)

Why would she sponsor that, but want it taken out for the stimulus? Something isn't adding up.

a fat halliburton check
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 12, 2009, 05:56:44 PM
WSJ article about press conferences owned:
Quote
However, one line stood out with critics: “We doubt that President Bush, who was notorious for being parsimonious with follow-ups, would have gotten away with prescreening his interlocutors.”

Of course, Bush did prescreen reporters. Media Matters noted that Bush joked in a press conference once about it being scripted. And on Monday night, Ari Fleischer talked on Fox about preparing a list or reporters before the president's press conferences.


Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on February 12, 2009, 06:03:29 PM
JEFF GANNON!

How soon they forget.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eric P on February 12, 2009, 06:12:30 PM
christ it never bothered me when bush did it, it's not going to bother me now.

you don't care about this blatant manipulation of the fourth estate?

tsk tsk tsk
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eric P on February 12, 2009, 06:16:41 PM
that's good because wait until you read THIS

World Tribune
February 12, 2009

The following is based on a report by Cliff Kincaid, Accuracy in Media.

Elite members of the World Economic Forum (WEF) meeting in Davos,
Switzerland, recently considered a proposal for a new global television
network
to usher in a state of "global governance." The concept strikes some as
authoritarian, even totalitarian. But the parent company of Fox News was one
of the sponsors of this year's gathering. ShareThis

The media proposal, which was included in "The Global Agenda 2009" report,
is to create "a new global network" with "the capacity to connect the world,
bridging cultures and peoples, and telling us who we are and what we mean to
each other." Several prominent U.S. media figures signed on to the alarming
and controversial proposal.

Isn't it nice that we might have a TV network telling us "who we are?" And
"what we mean to each other?" Perhaps we will learn that we are global
citizens. Perhaps a global leader of some sort will tell us that. Who might
that be?

This proposal doesn't come from a fringe organization. The WEF is an
exclusive club of very rich and powerful people from around the world. It
describes itself as "an independent international organization committed to
improving the state of the world by engaging leaders in partnerships to
shape global, regional and industry agendas."

This year's conference featured speeches by U.N. Secretary-General Ban
Ki-moon and Chinese Premier We Jiabao. Many U.S. corporations, including
some getting Wall Street bailout money, were sponsors. News Corporation, the
parent of Fox News, was a "strategic partner" of the event.

http://www.congresscheck.com/2009/02/12/global-elite-consider-television-network-to-%E2%80%9Ctell-us-who-we-are%E2%80%9D/
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 12, 2009, 06:17:56 PM
christ it never bothered me when bush did it, it's not going to bother me now.
It makes no sense to get upset about. It's not like they tell him the questions before hand. It's basically just purely done to make sure the president calls on all the major media outlets and doesn't forget any.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eric P on February 12, 2009, 06:22:11 PM
o you're pulling my leg :-\

that's what you say now

in the future, they will be pulling your legs to aid you to your death on the gallows!
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on February 12, 2009, 06:22:39 PM
Unless you actually think there will be no improvement at all for 5 years straight.

I don't know.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7880189.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7880189.stm)
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10158959-38.html (http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10158959-38.html)

Some smart people are saying some really scary things.

Ballmer counts as a smart person?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on February 12, 2009, 07:05:23 PM
Quote
Ballmer counts as a smart person?

(http://indarktrees.com/pics/kanji_av1.JPG)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 12, 2009, 07:50:58 PM
+1 dem senate seat in 2010
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Crushed on February 12, 2009, 07:55:34 PM
this judd gregg guy is a pretty big pussy.
holy shit, his name is judge dredd? how can he be a pussy with a name like that? badass.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 12, 2009, 08:00:21 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/12/msnbc-anchor-peter-alexan_n_166449.html
 :lol
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 12, 2009, 08:35:12 PM
poligaf in hysterics is funny/sad. It's funad.


Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on February 12, 2009, 08:45:38 PM
PoliGAF in general makes me LOL.

It is pretty obvious Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert does their thinking for them.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 12, 2009, 08:56:22 PM
Quote
It's hard not to think that Gregg's withdrawal, with the grumbling about the census and the stimulus, was not timed to cause the most damage possible to the Obama administration. Releasing the statement just as Obama took the stage in Peoria was clearly designed to undermine the President's event. The fact he scheduled a presser only seems to confirm it. The classy exit would have been to wait til tomorrow afternoon to quietly bow out. Basically Gregg decided not just to politely decline, but rather to blow shit up and burn the bridge behind him. Do not think this portends good things for the wider political climate.

If the larger GOP strategy can be describe as putting all of their chips on "FAIL", this has to be seen as a significant addition to that pile, no?
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/02/timing.php

Obama can always hang his hat on the fact that he tried playing nice with them. Perhaps the three republicans who voted for the stimulus can be counted on as allies in the future as well, maybe even new republicans will support legislation that they agree with. But by and large it looks like the republicans entire goal is to block any and every shot Obama takes.

If they had a coherent argument against the stimulus, or against just about anything, I could understand their actions. But right now it really looks like their mission is to just clog shit up
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 12, 2009, 09:28:43 PM
When Bill Clinton won Republicans for 8 years straight tried to undermine him and kicked and screamed about every damn thing he did.

And now that Obama won it took less than a month for Republicans to unify to try to undermine Obama nonstop like they did in the 90's.

What the hell is it with Republicans in Congress never wanting to work with Democratic presidents? Hell when Bush won Democrats in congress basically rolled over and hid under a rock.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 12, 2009, 09:31:08 PM
Republicans have balls though. They don't like something, they annihilate it. Dems don't like something they cry, then cave.

and lol
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2009/02/diaper-dave-vitter-suggests-obama-wants-dictatorship

This guy pops off almost every day wtf
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Crushed on February 12, 2009, 09:31:41 PM
Republicans are children and anything that slightly deviates from their own views is seen as scary and radical, so they bunch together and refuse to move.

It's not balls, it's immaturity.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Brehvolution on February 12, 2009, 11:05:29 PM
I never understood why people thought the Dems were spineless. Now I know what they are talking about.

Working together is good. But when the repubs have the 'my way or the highway' attitude, fuck them and their constituents. They will go kicking and screaming into obscurity.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 12, 2009, 11:10:55 PM
I never understood why people thought the Dems were spineless. Now I know what they are talking about.

Working together is good. But when the repubs have the 'my way or the highway' attitude, fuck them and their constituents. They will go kicking and screaming into obscurity.

It's funny, the Dem in a leadership position with the most balls is Pelosi.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 12, 2009, 11:13:55 PM
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/02/doh-caterpillar.html (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/02/doh-caterpillar.html)

LMFAO 
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 12, 2009, 11:17:38 PM
How can anyone feel good about this stimulus bill? Sheesh.


http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D96A51G80&show_article=1

What about us brain dead slobs? You'll be given cushy jobs! Mono-rail! Mono-rail!




Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Brehvolution on February 12, 2009, 11:38:20 PM
I never understood why people thought the Dems were spineless. Now I know what they are talking about.

Working together is good. But when the repubs have the 'my way or the highway' attitude, fuck them and their constituents. They will go kicking and screaming into obscurity.

It's funny, the Dem in a leadership position with the most balls is Pelosi.

Don't taunt me man.  :'(
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on February 12, 2009, 11:43:14 PM
TA: Weren't you talking about how there should be more infrastructure spending?  Or am I misreading you?

Green Shinobi:  It's bad if they use the AMT patch to justify cutting other parts of the bill, but by itself it's the fair thing to do.  It was only intended to keep a small amount of super-rich families from tax-dodging, not to raise the rates on the upper-middle class.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 12, 2009, 11:44:18 PM
I know I shouldn't complain, but I'd rather see the money spent towards bridges and highways.


Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on February 12, 2009, 11:47:44 PM
Oh man, this is about how The Left is pushing pseudoscience in a hidden agenda to force everyone to ride public transit, leading to an egalitarian society, isn't it?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 12, 2009, 11:49:09 PM
Nah, it's just selfishness. Any new rail is most likely to be built on the coasts.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on February 13, 2009, 12:11:20 AM
Fair enough.  The denser parts of the midwest really should get better train service, though.  DC to Chicago is 17 hours, and I'm tired of the dirty Euros laughing at us for our shitty rail system.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: lordmaji on February 13, 2009, 12:15:00 AM
HI... I'm Obama.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on February 13, 2009, 12:20:17 AM
st. louis <-> chicago and seattle <-> portland supertrains plz

i think these things take like a decade+ to build anyway though :(

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 13, 2009, 12:42:18 AM
ATL <-> Birmingham
ATL <-> Orlando
ATL <-> Charlotte


Plane crash in Buffalo. 49 peeps on board...  :(
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on February 13, 2009, 01:06:09 AM
We're gonna need this shit sooner rather than later once the gas starts to run out. Unless of course some major progress is made in the area of alternative fuel research.

It's not going to happen.  Too many people (in government and out of government) are concerned with immediate results to their investments.  Being proactive on something that will be an issue in 10 or 20 years isn't even on the table for way too many people.  We won't worry about gas problems until they have already been shitting in our mouth for a while.  Again.  What did Obama call this?  Shock and trance or whatever?  Well, even his brother Magic Negro Will Smith wouldn't be able to change that particular effect.  We're too used to instant gratification.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 13, 2009, 01:30:35 AM
Recently the Taylor Nelson Sofres agency conducted a sociological study in 7 European countries for the American Anti-Defamation League (ADL) which discovered interesting findings. 3500 people (500 representatives from each country ) from Austria, France, Germany, Great Britain, Hungary, Poland and Spain shared their views on who’s to blame for the crunch of the world’s finance.

31% of Europeans are sure that Jews made the crisis possible and 41% agree that Jews have excessive power on the world’s financial markets (74% of Spaniards and 67% of Hungarians support this point of view). The survey found that so-called “business anti-Semitism” has grown by 5% in France, 6% in Poland and 7% in Hungary since 2007.





Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on February 13, 2009, 01:39:41 AM
Recently the Taylor Nelson Sofres agency conducted a sociological study in 7 European countries for the American Anti-Defamation League (ADL) which discovered interesting findings. 3500 people (500 representatives from each country ) from Austria, France, Germany, Great Britain, Hungary, Poland and Spain shared their views on who’s to blame for the crunch of the world’s finance.

31% of Europeans are sure that Jews made the crisis possible and 41% agree that Jews have excessive power on the world’s financial markets (74% of Spaniards and 67% of Hungarians support this point of view). The survey found that so-called “business anti-Semitism” has grown by 5% in France, 6% in Poland and 7% in Hungary since 2007.

While I would not be surprised. . .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Defamation_League#New_antisemitism_controversy
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 13, 2009, 01:47:57 AM
Here's a link for the full study
http://www.speroforum.com/a/18122/Europeans-blame-Jews-for-economic-crisis
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eric P on February 13, 2009, 07:20:59 AM
man, even Europe is in re-runs
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 13, 2009, 08:16:51 AM
So has the stimulus package been released to the public yet? It was supposed to be released to the public 48 hours before they voted on it. It was finally given to Congress at 11pm last night and they vote on it in about 8 hours.

yay transparency.

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 13, 2009, 08:30:07 AM
So has the stimulus package been released to the public yet? It was supposed to be released to the public 48 hours before they voted on it. It was finally given to Congress at 11pm last night and they vote on it in about 8 hours.

yay transparency.


It will be put up on recovery.go :-[v you realize. And every single penny spent in it will be trackable and it will show who got that money and so forth.

So yes it will be transparent. Very transparent.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on February 13, 2009, 08:49:41 AM
Remember when we complained that the patriot act was voted on before anyone got to read it....


yeah...
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 13, 2009, 09:03:54 AM
Remember when we complained that the patriot act was voted on before anyone got to read it?  :smug
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Flannel Boy on February 13, 2009, 09:09:19 AM
That smiley  :lol :lol
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: CajoleJuice on February 13, 2009, 09:09:56 AM
Fair enough.  The denser parts of the midwest really should get better train service, though.  DC to Chicago is 17 hours, and I'm tired of the dirty Euros laughing at us for our shitty rail system.

Did anyone post that proposed high-speed rail system in here?

http://thetransportpolitic.wordpress.com/2009/01/30/envisioning-a-future-interstate-rail-network/

shit's awesome
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 13, 2009, 09:17:34 AM
http://money.cnn.com/2009/02/13/news/economy/stimulus_individuals/


CNN has a pretty good breakdown about how the stimulus will put money into your pocket.

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: tiesto on February 13, 2009, 09:22:41 AM
I never understood why people thought the Dems were spineless. Now I know what they are talking about.

Working together is good. But when the repubs have the 'my way or the highway' attitude, fuck them and their constituents. They will go kicking and screaming into obscurity.

It's funny, the Dem in a leadership position with the most balls is Pelosi.

That's not surprising at all, considering how Italian women tend to be...
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 13, 2009, 09:33:06 AM
Is that anti-Semite poll on the last page credible? If so, wow man

So has the stimulus package been released to the public yet? It was supposed to be released to the public 48 hours before they voted on it. It was finally given to Congress at 11pm last night and they vote on it in about 8 hours.

yay transparency.


It will be put up on recovery.go :-[v you realize. And every single penny spent in it will be trackable and it will show who got that money and so forth.

So yes it will be transparent. Very transparent.

Yea but all legislation was supposed to be put up on the web with open comments before Obama enacted it.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eric P on February 13, 2009, 09:33:52 AM
ugh

i can't even imagine the open comments on that

i mean, if youtube is enough to go by...
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 13, 2009, 11:35:30 AM
I was thinking about that hedge fund manager that wrote that big FU letter and dissolved his fund back in October. Rereading again was kind of interesting.


Quote
On the issue of the U.S. Government, I would like to make a modest proposal. First, I point out the obvious flaws, whereby legislation was repeatedly brought forth to Congress over the past eight years, which would have reigned in the predatory lending practices of now mostly defunct institutions. These institutions regularly filled the coffers of both parties in return for voting down all of this legislation designed to protect the common citizen. This is an outrage, yet no one seems to know or care about it. Since Thomas Jefferson and Adam Smith passed, I would argue that there has been a dearth of worthy philosophers in this country, at least ones focused on improving government. Capitalism worked for two hundred years, but times change, and systems become corrupt. George Soros, a man of staggering wealth, has stated that he would like to be remembered as a philosopher. My suggestion is that this great man start and sponsor a forum for great minds to come together to create a new system of government that truly represents the common man's interest, while at the same time creating rewards great enough to attract the best and brightest minds to serve in government roles without having to rely on corruption to further their interests or lifestyles. This forum could be similar to the one used to create the operating system, Linux, which competes with Microsoft's near monopoly. I believe there is an answer, but for now the system is clearly broken.

http://www.portfolio.com/views/blogs/daily-brief/2008/10/17/hedge-fund-manager-goodbye-and-f-you
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: eznark on February 13, 2009, 12:48:27 PM
Awesome, thanks Barry!
Quote
wireless and broadband deployment grant programs

(including transfer of funds to eznark for the eznark Personal Economic Stimulus Program)

      For necessary and unnecessary expenses related to the Wireless and Broadband Deployment Grant Programs established by section 6002 of division B of this Act, $2,825,000,000, of which $1,000,000,000 shall be for Wireless Deployment Grants and $1,825,000,000 shall be for Broadband Deployment Grants: Provided, That an additional $5000000 shall be paid directly to eznark in the form of subsidized loans that do not require repayment. Provided Further, That the funds be used by eznark to bidniz or for whatever. Provided Even Further, That eznark will receive free Brewers tickets for life. Provided Even Further Still, That eznark shall be treated as a cabinet-level appointment for the purpose of income tax reporting, and therefore no taxes shall be paid on any of the aformentioned benefits. And one more thing: Russ Feingold is hereby expelled from Congress, effective immediately upon enactment.

Get  your handout here!
http://www.reason.com/stimulus/request.php?20090213124547
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Brehvolution on February 13, 2009, 01:03:03 PM
Well, look what the cat dragged in. :smug
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on February 13, 2009, 01:10:57 PM
(http://i41.tinypic.com/2rh5utg.jpg)

this made me lol
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: brawndolicious on February 13, 2009, 01:35:03 PM
Is that anti-Semite poll on the last page credible? If so, wow man
It might be true that it's increasing but the numbers might not be credible.  Read TVC's link.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 13, 2009, 01:45:19 PM
Actually, if you read my link you would see that the overall numbers have fallen from 2007. It's a survey that the ADL commisions from very respected marketing research firm. The sample size is 500 people per country.

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eric P on February 13, 2009, 01:47:19 PM
WATCH OUT WALL ST

Quote
Filmmaker Michael Moore has observed what has been going on with the American economy and detected a whiff of injustice. He has cast his eye toward the titans of Wall Street and has determined that some things went down at America's banks that were not right. So he's decided to make a movie about it, because he is the one lone voice in the wilderness brave enough to expose these scoundrels for who they truly are blah blah. Wall Street insiders with a conscience and stories to tell him should e-mail bailout@michaelmoore.com. And remember, it's not for Michael Moore, it's for America: "You have information that the American people need to hear," he writes.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Crushed on February 13, 2009, 01:49:20 PM
(http://i41.tinypic.com/2rh5utg.jpg)

this made me lol

The guy who made this is an SA user. It's a damn crime that he's not syndicated, while complete hacks can phone in a cartoon and call it a day: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3012836

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on February 13, 2009, 01:52:50 PM
Actually, if you read my link you would see that the overall numbers have fallen from 2007. It's a survey that the ADL commisions from very respected marketing research firm. The sample size is 500 people per country.

Yeah, they got a firm to do the survey itself, but they do not indicate whether they or the firm did the analysis.  Also, their official report is very light on methodology (I read it last night so I don't recall all the details, but the red stop sign for me was they did not mention sample selection at all).  Combine that and their rep, and it's not a very authoritative study.

Again, I wouldn't doubt what they are saying, but it's coming from an organization that has been pushing a controversial agenda (agenda might be the wrong word but I'm a-busy at work atm) for 30+ years that these findings happen to support.  It definitely casts a shadow on their results.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Tauntaun on February 13, 2009, 01:53:17 PM
WATCH OUT WALL ST

Quote
Filmmaker Michael Moore has observed what has been going on with the American economy and detected a whiff of injustice. He has cast his eye toward the titans of Wall Street and has determined that some things went down at America's banks that were not right. So he's decided to make a movie about it, because he is the one lone voice in the wilderness brave enough to expose these scoundrels for who they truly are blah blah. Wall Street insiders with a conscience and stories to tell him should e-mail bailout@michaelmoore.com. And remember, it's not for Michael Moore, it's for America: "You have information that the American people need to hear," he writes.

Well at least his coming to NYC will mean good business for all those hot dog stands.  (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/MastahCrushed/Emote/emot-smug.gif)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eric P on February 13, 2009, 01:59:45 PM
omg i went to papayaking for lunch yesterday

fucking awesome
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 13, 2009, 02:00:17 PM
Actually, if you read my link you would see that the overall numbers have fallen from 2007. It's a survey that the ADL commisions from very respected marketing research firm. The sample size is 500 people per country.

Yeah, they got a firm to do the survey itself, but they do not indicate whether they or the firm did the analysis.  Also, their official report is very light on methodology (I read it last night so I don't recall all the details, but the red stop sign for me was they did not mention sample selection at all).  Combine that and their rep, and it's not a very authoritative study.

Again, I wouldn't doubt what they are saying, but it's coming from an organization that has been pushing a controversial agenda (agenda might be the wrong word but I'm a-busy at work atm) for 30+ years that these findings happen to support.  It definitely casts a shadow on their results.

Can't argue with that.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: The Fake Shemp on February 13, 2009, 02:02:58 PM
Michael Moore is so full of himself.  He makes himself sound like a superhero.

MICHAEL MOORE HAS DETECTED INJUSTICE! NOW YOU'VE MESSED WITH THE BULL AND YOU WILL GET THE HORNS - OF JUSTICE!!!
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on February 13, 2009, 02:04:32 PM
Michael Moore is so full of himself.  He makes himself sound like a superhero.

MICHAEL MOORE HAS DETECTED INJUSTICE! NOW YOU'VE MESSED WITH THE BULL AND YOU WILL GET THE HORNS - OF JUSTICE!!!

"WHAT! KRISPY KREME IS CLOSE TO SHUTTING DOWN?  I MUST GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THIS!"
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: The Fake Shemp on February 13, 2009, 02:06:44 PM
YOU HAVE HIT HOME, WALL STREET AND NOW FROM HELL'S HEART, I STAB AT THEE.

FOR HATE'S SAKE, I SPIT MY LAST BREATH AT THEE.

NOBODY FUCKS WITH MY DONUTS!
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: eznark on February 13, 2009, 02:08:06 PM
I think it's cute Michael Moore still thinks he is relevant.  That last hit job of his sure had a staggering affect on health care.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on February 13, 2009, 02:10:24 PM
I think it's cute Michael Moore still thinks he is relevant.  That last hit job of his sure had a staggering affect on health care.

He's released a movie since then, and nobody paid attention.  That said, it was released for free, so everyone probably just ignored it.  I know I did.

Sicko pissed me off to no end because he could have made a good case for universal healthcare, but his fat ass had to slant the whole thing up and make the movie easy to attack.  That could have been a slam dunk.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: The Fake Shemp on February 13, 2009, 02:12:50 PM
Did we ever like Michael Moore?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 13, 2009, 02:13:06 PM
Looks like Republicans have officially killed bipartisanship with Obama once and for all. Politico is reporting that Obama will no longer focus on trying to work with Republicans but will spend more time on the trail doing more town halls.

Quote
Politico: Obama to Seize on Bolder Strategy

The president reportedly plans to be tougher selling the next stages of his economic agenda than he was with the stimulus.

Expected to travel more and worry less about winning over Republican votes.

Wise move, Republicans killed bipartisanship so Obama is going to focus on what he does best, doing big events in front of the public. Better to try and win the public than the republicans in congress.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on February 13, 2009, 02:19:37 PM
Did we ever like Michael Moore?

His TV shows were pretty good, but he didn't take himself as seriously back then.  For the most part. 
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 13, 2009, 02:20:32 PM
Stimulus bill just passed in house...
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eric P on February 13, 2009, 02:21:52 PM
Did we ever like Michael Moore?

tv nation was pretty good at time
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 13, 2009, 02:24:20 PM
Looks like zero REPs again...

One present vote. (Guess they gave Obama an honorary vote)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 13, 2009, 02:32:11 PM
Barry has put on the big gloves this time, and they fit
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0209/18827.html

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: eznark on February 13, 2009, 02:44:31 PM
"Bipartisanship" died with Aaron Burr cheebs.

Glad the GOP was able to stick together in the house.  It's a damn shame no one has challenged Snowe to a duel.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 13, 2009, 02:47:29 PM

who needs em.

Exactly. They never did, but had to make it look like they were impeding the process.

Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on February 13, 2009, 03:02:21 PM

who needs em.

Exactly. They never did, but had to make it look like they were impeding the process.



You think that's the way they thought of it?  Maybe some of the hardcore libs, but I genuinly think Obama was trying to reach out.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eric P on February 13, 2009, 03:06:35 PM

who needs em.

Exactly. They never did, but had to make it look like they were impeding the process.



You think that's the way they thought of it?  Maybe some of the hardcore libs, but I genuinly think Obama was trying to reach out.

looks like you bought what he was sellin'

 :smug
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 13, 2009, 03:08:24 PM
"Bipartisanship" died with Aaron Burr cheebs.

Glad the GOP was able to stick together in the house.  It's a damn shame no one has challenged Snowe to a duel.

permabanned from GAF?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on February 13, 2009, 03:24:24 PM

who needs em.

Exactly. They never did, but had to make it look like they were impeding the process.



You think that's the way they thought of it?  Maybe some of the hardcore libs, but I genuinly think Obama was trying to reach out.

looks like you bought what he was sellin'

 :smug

:smug
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on February 13, 2009, 03:25:08 PM
(http://i41.tinypic.com/2rh5utg.jpg)

this made me lol

so awesome
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Flannel Boy on February 13, 2009, 03:25:19 PM
Michael Moore is so full of himself.  He makes himself sound like a superhero.



This is how I think of you when you tell one of your work stories.
Bitter accountant is bitter.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 13, 2009, 03:27:36 PM
bitter factory worker is a factory worker

accounting  :tophat
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Flannel Boy on February 13, 2009, 03:28:57 PM
bitter factory worker is a factory worker
That troll doesn't even make sense.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 13, 2009, 03:30:02 PM
your reverse trolling isn't working
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on February 13, 2009, 03:30:26 PM
you're not working
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Eric P on February 13, 2009, 03:32:41 PM
Father Mike contracted to write GOP Valentine's Day cards

(http://www.truemeaningoflife.com/images/obama4.jpg)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 13, 2009, 03:33:09 PM

You think that's the way they thought of it?  Maybe some of the hardcore libs, but I genuinly think Obama was trying to reach out.

You think Obama made his speech in Elkhart, Indiana because it is a nice place to visit in February?

lol at that Valentines Day card.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Flannel Boy on February 13, 2009, 03:37:29 PM
Just because I give you wood, doesn't mean I'm a lumberjack.  :smug
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: siamesedreamer on February 13, 2009, 05:55:10 PM
Watching the Senate vote on CSPAN. Both Snowe and Collins voted for it. So, I guess that's it and its now a done deal. 
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 13, 2009, 06:10:39 PM
Father Mike contracted to write GOP Valentine's Day cards

(http://www.truemeaningoflife.com/images/obama4.jpg)

Officially from the GOP? Wow

The 2010 census is going to be a riot
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 13, 2009, 06:14:57 PM
Yep.

The second Hispanic areas get some more representation after the 2010 census redistricting Lou Dobbs and the rest will claim Obama's White House counted DEM ILLEGALS in the census. Just you wait.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on February 13, 2009, 06:29:29 PM
I hope I live a short but fulfilling life and  I die right before our chuldren have to start paying for everything in the bill!
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Crushed on February 13, 2009, 06:30:24 PM
Quote
ACORN will be sending you Valentine's

They'll be sending me the day of Valentine? SMH, GOP, SMH.

I hope I live a short but fulfilling life and  I die right before our chuldren have to start paying for everything in the bill!

look someone who doesn't know how spending works
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on February 13, 2009, 06:33:47 PM
Call me old fashioned but I dont buy much without actually having the money first. I guess im from the age of the dinosaurs.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on February 13, 2009, 06:38:04 PM
How much did the stimulus bill end up costing? 800 billion? How is the fed going to repay this? There are two ways. Increase revenue (taxes) or print more money which will cause massive inflation.

All I'm saying is that I will have long gone on a meth binge or eaten by sharks before the government decides to do either.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Eaten by a shark while on a meth binge.  :smug
[close]
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on February 13, 2009, 06:42:10 PM
Does anyone else think this emote looks like "I just let a big silent fart out"
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Mandark on February 13, 2009, 06:53:35 PM

You think that's the way they thought of it?  Maybe some of the hardcore libs, but I genuinly think Obama was trying to reach out.

You think Obama made his speech in Elkhart, Indiana because it is a nice place to visit in February?

lol at that Valentines Day card.

I think you're applying Occam's Pretzel here, like you did in the Graeme Frost case.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Oblivion on February 13, 2009, 07:06:05 PM

You think that's the way they thought of it?  Maybe some of the hardcore libs, but I genuinly think Obama was trying to reach out.

You think Obama made his speech in Elkhart, Indiana because it is a nice place to visit in February?

lol at that Valentines Day card.

I think you're applying Occam's Pretzel here, like you did in the Graeme Frost case.

LOL. Mind if I steal that?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 13, 2009, 07:16:50 PM
FoC can't even use that emote right
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TakingBackSunday on February 13, 2009, 07:17:27 PM
That what happens when you can't understand spending
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Barry Egan on February 13, 2009, 07:47:04 PM
omg i went to papayaking for lunch yesterday

fucking awesome

:bow recession special :bow2

edit: actually I think the recession special is gray's papaya...

spoiler (click to show/hide)
:bow papaya affiliated hot dog joints in manhattan :bow2
[close]
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 13, 2009, 07:58:55 PM
According to Arlen Specter, more GOP Senators support the stimulus but didn't vote for it because they're pussies. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/13/specter-republicans-suppo_n_166875.html)

Quote
Sen. Arlen Specter (R-PA), who broke with his party to support President Obama's stimulus package last week, said before the final vote Friday that more of his colleagues would have joined were they not afraid of the political consequences.

"When I came back to the cloak room after coming to the agreement a week ago today," said Specter, "one of my colleagues said, 'Arlen, I'm proud of you.' My Republican colleague said, 'Arlen, I'm proud of you.' I said, 'Are you going to vote with me?' And he said, 'No, I might have a primary.' And I said, 'Well, you know very well I'm going to have a primary.'"

Country first!
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 13, 2009, 08:05:57 PM
dunno if the hair has grown back down there, but he definitely has balls :bow
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 13, 2009, 09:00:08 PM
Specter won his primary in  2004 by 51-49, barely squeaked by. And with this move he is going to have a hell of primary battle facing him soon.


Good for him. This is what real politicians need to do. I disagree with Specter  on most things but man, this is what a fucking senator is elected to do.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: TVC15 on February 13, 2009, 09:03:44 PM
I hope I live a short but fulfilling life and  I die right before our chuldren have to start paying for everything in the bill!

You do realize that the US has been in debt for a long ass time, right?  It's not like this is anything new.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 13, 2009, 09:08:29 PM
The thing is, if PA didn't have closed primaries Specter would probably win his primary.  But indies can't vote in PA primaries, and the PA GOP has been bleeding membership for the past couple of cycles so all that's left are the nuttiest of wingnuts.  Basically, if Specter loses that seat is guaranteed to flip because PA at large isn't interested in another Rick Santorum.

Other states liable to flip to blue- OH, FL, MO and now NH where all four have retiring GOP Senators.

Cohen- you forgot the obligatory :libertariansmug
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 13, 2009, 09:10:43 PM
According to Arlen Specter, more GOP Senators support the stimulus but didn't vote for it because they're pussies. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/13/specter-republicans-suppo_n_166875.html)

Quote
Sen. Arlen Specter (R-PA), who broke with his party to support President Obama's stimulus package last week, said before the final vote Friday that more of his colleagues would have joined were they not afraid of the political consequences.

"When I came back to the cloak room after coming to the agreement a week ago today," said Specter, "one of my colleagues said, 'Arlen, I'm proud of you.' My Republican colleague said, 'Arlen, I'm proud of you.' I said, 'Are you going to vote with me?' And he said, 'No, I might have a primary.' And I said, 'Well, you know very well I'm going to have a primary.'"

Country first!

God, that's bullshit.

Bullshit?

Specter didn't do this for political reasons. His vote is near suicidal for him politically. His problem is not the general election in PA, he doesn't need to work with Democrats to win his seat or whatever. His problem is the primary, he won his primary in 2004 51-49. 2% that's it. And the type of Republicans that are still left in PA who didn't leave the party are the wacko right-wingers. And his vote on this is a huge problem for him in a already tough primary fight. If he was doing it for "bullshit" political reasons he would have voted against it, his problem in PA is keeping the Republicans in line and this vote hurts him on that.

So no, what he did and said is not bullshit.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 13, 2009, 09:12:03 PM
Wait you are probably calling the rest of the GOP when you said bullshit aren't you? Ugh. I don't care I needed an excuse to defend Specter some more anyway.  :lol
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on February 13, 2009, 09:24:51 PM
That Valentine's Day card is pretty good.

A while back, I had an electric lineman talk to me for a while about Obama and ACORN.  Apparently ACORN is an organization hellbent on trying to take over the world.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Cheebs on February 13, 2009, 09:29:54 PM
This looks pretty.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5ieXw28ZUpg/SY9Py5JXdeI/AAAAAAAAA54/gBG4-BuQn-I/S1600-R/2010feb.PNG)
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on February 13, 2009, 09:35:12 PM
Dems will be getting a supermajority in 2010.

The GOP has no chance.  If the stimulus fails, it can be blamed on the GOP because they wanted to take a lot of important provisions out.  Plus this was the party that backed Bush.  Americans can be forgetful but not after just two years.  If the economy gets better by even a hair, it will be called as an Obama victory (whether he did anything to it or not).  The GOP on the other hand is focusing on ACORN.  This is a party that seems focused on shooting themselves in the foot.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 13, 2009, 10:13:18 PM
According to Arlen Specter, more GOP Senators support the stimulus but didn't vote for it because they're pussies. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/13/specter-republicans-suppo_n_166875.html)

Quote
Sen. Arlen Specter (R-PA), who broke with his party to support President Obama's stimulus package last week, said before the final vote Friday that more of his colleagues would have joined were they not afraid of the political consequences.

"When I came back to the cloak room after coming to the agreement a week ago today," said Specter, "one of my colleagues said, 'Arlen, I'm proud of you.' My Republican colleague said, 'Arlen, I'm proud of you.' I said, 'Are you going to vote with me?' And he said, 'No, I might have a primary.' And I said, 'Well, you know very well I'm going to have a primary.'"

Country first!

God, that's bullshit.

Bullshit?

Specter didn't do this for political reasons. His vote is near suicidal for him politically. His problem is not the general election in PA, he doesn't need to work with Democrats to win his seat or whatever. His problem is the primary, he won his primary in 2004 51-49. 2% that's it. And the type of Republicans that are still left in PA who didn't leave the party are the wacko right-wingers. And his vote on this is a huge problem for him in a already tough primary fight. If he was doing it for "bullshit" political reasons he would have voted against it, his problem in PA is keeping the Republicans in line and this vote hurts him on that.

So no, what he did and said is not bullshit.

Pretty sure he means the republican's actions were bullshit, not Specter's.

even Chris Matthews could beat whatever fundie bastard replaces Specter
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Brehvolution on February 13, 2009, 10:20:00 PM
That is the meaning of conservatism.

Times will change but the belief doesn't.

A changing of the guard is upon us.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 13, 2009, 10:22:48 PM
So their entire strategy basically boils down to "always bet against black" smh. Sure if the stimulus is a massive fail the vote could end up being their equivalent to the Iraq war resolution vote for dems like Obama, but if it works or is even perceived as working they're kinda fucked
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on February 13, 2009, 10:30:06 PM
It doesn't bother anyone here that they voted on a 1200 page bill that they didn't even read? Wasn't there a whole section in fahrenheit 9/11 about voting on the patriot act without seeing it?

SMH at hypocrites
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 13, 2009, 10:30:33 PM
That is the meaning of conservatism.

Times will change but the belief doesn't.

A changing of the guard is upon us.

Read some Burke.  I'm by no means a classical or modern movement conservative, but they didn't always used to be this dumb and intractable.
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: Phoenix Dark on February 13, 2009, 10:31:12 PM
It does bother me. Obama broke his promise about allowing folks to comb over bills 48 hours before passed
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on February 13, 2009, 10:32:17 PM
It does bother me. Obama broke his promise about allowing folks to comb over bills 48 hours before passed

on a political scale how much does it bother you?
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: ToxicAdam on February 13, 2009, 10:40:20 PM

I think you're applying Occam's Pretzel here, like you did in the Graeme Frost case.

mmm hmmmm
Title: Re: so, Obama is president
Post by: HyperZoneWasAwesome on February 13, 2009, 10:43:43 PM
so my Republican senator voted against the stimulus bill, but she's telling local groups here in Alaska to get their shit together so they can grab some of dat sweet Obama monies (http://www.adn.com/front/story/689075.html).
Quote from: Anchorage Daily News
"All last week, we would have different groups come in, whether it is people advocating for Head Start and Child Care, to folks from Chevak. Everybody kind of wants to know: 'What would be in it for us' " said Republican Sen. Lisa Murkowski, who despite the pleas, intends to vote against the stimulus package...
Although Murkowski doesn't intend to vote for the stimulus package, she said she does like some provisions in it, including money that could help pay for hospitals in Barrow and Nome. She said she has told groups such as the Alaska Federation of Natives to "get your grant writers ready" despite her own trepidations about the bill.

"I'm looking at what is moving forward now," Murkowski sa