Why in gods name would anyone attack a center for those with developmental disabilities?
Why in gods name would anyone attack a center for those with developmental disabilities? Hits even more close to home considering how many clients I deal with and people I know at agencies much like this one.
That would never hold and totally fuck dems in the election.
Alan Colmes ✔ @AlanColmes
Planned Parenthood Clinic Across Street From San Bernardino Shooting http://colm.es/1Tw8tpd #p2
Sam Stein ✔ @samsteinhp:doge
Planned Parenthood is about 1.3 miles from site of shooting. CNN, however, is reporting that the shooting didn’t take place there
Across the state (Tennessee) there have been more than 20 accidental shootings (of children), eight of those resulted in the death of a child.
At least this will distract us from the latest toddler that finds a gun and accidently kills his sibling/self/parent.QuoteAcross the state (Tennessee) there have been more than 20 accidental shootings (of children), eight of those resulted in the death of a child.
Just one state in our great land.
Prayer Shaming After a Mass Shooting in San Bernardino
Following the murder of at least 14 people in California, the reaction against calls for prayer has been sharp. (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/12/prayer-gun-control-mass-shooting-san-bernardino/418563/)
:usacry
Strict gun laws, now.
Hours after the mass shooting, a man and woman armed with assault rifles and handguns were involved in a pursuit that led to an exchange of gunfire with officers, police said. The two suspects, who were wearing “assault-style clothing,” were dead, San Bernardino Police Department Chief Jarrod Burguan said Wednesday evening.http://ktla.com/2015/12/02/authorities-respond-to-20-victim-shooting-incident-in-san-bernardino-fire-dept/
A call of multiple shots fired first came in at 10:59 a.m. from the area of 1365 S. Waterman Ave. The Police Department’s SWAT team was training nearby and was suited, “ready to roll” and responded rapidly, Lt. Richard Lawhead said.
Up to three suspects were believed to have fled the scene, possibly in a dark-colored SUV, Burguan initially said.
Several hours later, authorities were investigating tips that led them to a home in Redlands. A vehicle that was seen leaving was suspected of being involved, and police chased the vehicle to San Bernardino, about 2 miles from the initial shooting scene. In the 1700 block of San Bernardino Avenue, the vehicle stopped and officers fired upon it, Burguan said.
The two people who were in the vehicle — the man and the woman — were dead, Burguan said. One officer was injured in the shootout, but his wounds were not life threatening, the chief said.
One of the deceased suspects was identified as Syed Farook, an American citizen, the Los Angeles Times reported, citing two law enforcement sources.
A Syed R. Farook was employed by the San Bernardino County as an environmental health specialist, public records showed, according to the Times.
Syed R. Farook has been identified by multiple news outlets as one of the suspects in the San Bernardino mass shooting that ended in the death of one male and one female suspect in a gunfight with police.http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/dec/2/syed-farook-identified-san-bernardino-shooting-sus/
A source told NBC News that Mr. Farook’s brother also is believed to be a suspect.
...
According to the New York Daily News, Mr. Farook’s father, whom the paper did not name, confirmed in an interview that his son inspected restaurants and hotels for health violations, and was married with a child.
He also identified his son as “very religious. He would go to work, come back, go to pray, come back. He’s Muslim.”
• Experienced in collecting evidence to pursue R&TC Section 6829 Dual Determinations, Corporate Suspension Dual Determinations, Successor’s liability, and Conversion BillingsIs this some kind of Islamic ritual thing?
• Experienced in examining and reviewing financial documents for 6829 Dual Determinations, Compliance Adjustments, and petitions submitted on 6829 Dual Determinations
• Assisted co-workers on completing dual determinations
• Completed R&TC 6829 Dual Determinations, Corporate Suspension Dual Determinations, Successor’s liability, and Conversion Billings prior to deadline
Syed Rizwan Farook joined dozens of his colleagues from San Bernardino County's public health department. Farook, an inspector, seemed quiet during the early hours of the event, then vanished just as a group photo was about to be taken.http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-syed-farook-had-traveled-to-saudi-arabia-married-appeared-to-live-american-dream-co-workers-say-20151202-story.html
Shortly afterward, gunfire erupted at the Inland Regional Center where the employees filled a conference room. By the end of the day, police had identified Farook, 28, as a suspect in the massacre and said he was one of two people shot to death in a gun battle with officers. The other was 27-year-old Tashfeen Malik, who a family member said was Farook's wife.
Police officials said Farook had worked for the county for five years. San Bernardino Police Chief Jarrod Burguan said that there were reports of a dispute before Farook left the party.
...
They said Farook recently traveled to Saudi Arabia and returned with a new wife he had met online. The couple had a baby and appeared to be "living the American dream," said Patrick Baccari, a fellow health inspector who shared a cubicle with Farook.
Baccari and Christian Nwadike said Farook, who worked with them for several years, rarely started a conversation. But the tall, thin young man with a full beard was well liked and spent much of his time out in the field.
...
Reisinger said she heard that the office recently threw a baby shower for Farook and that he had taken paternity leave.
The only way to stop these people is by actually physically shutting their CNS down with supersonic pieces of metal.
Never stop being the hero in your head rather than the loser you are drew.
shoot them when they walk in the door like they did in Texas.
Ah, yes, the old "The United States has more total firearms and firearms per capita than any other nation on earth, and also has more gun deaths per capita than any other developed country, but somehow the solution to lowering the number of gun deaths in the country is more guns" argument.
Like I've alluded to before, its not unheard of, they got lucky in Texas.
Even if we suddenly infringed the shit out of the Second Amendment it wouldn't change anything.
So, your policy prescription for reducing gun violence is to admit that, even in your ideal scenario, success means "getting lucky" every once in a while. :neogaf
Total butterface
It's good to know that Drew didn't get any smarter in his time away
It's good to know that Drew didn't get any smarter in his time away
dude don't you have a handgun? Like an HK or some other equally douchey equivalent? (i.e. sig)
I never understand the idea of having guns to protect you from the government anyways. Your modified m16s will not help against black hawks or tanks, if the government wanted to kill you.If the government is turning blackhawks and tanks on citizens it's probably not a situation where the opposition is a lone guy or even handful of guys with a rifle.
ITT, drew finally learns that gun ownership, and desiring stronger gun control laws and regulation, are not mutually exclusive!spoiler (click to show/hide)just kidding, we know he won't.[close]
I never understand the idea of having guns to protect you from the government anyways. Your modified m16s will not help against black hawks or tanks, if the government wanted to kill you.If the government is turning blackhawks and tanks on citizens it's probably not a situation where the opposition is a lone guy or even handful of guys with a rifle.spoiler (click to show/hide)It's a middle of the night no knock raid on some unarmed poor people who live down the street from someone who looks like a drug dealer.[close]
So, your policy prescription for reducing gun violence is to admit that, even in your ideal scenario, success means "getting lucky" every once in a while. :neogaf
OK, fine, I take that back. The guys who put them down didn't really get lucky, all the people in the building behind them did because the right men were by the front door.
Never said I had solutions. This is the world you live in, plan accordingly.
Never said I had solutions. This is the world you live in, plan accordingly.No amount of planning will put eyes in the back of your head or let you read someone's mind. And if your false sense of security is worth the cost, then so be it.
the only logical conclusion if you actually break down the statistics would be to somehow remove black people from the equation. But this is 2015 not 1941 ;)
Never stop being the hero in your head rather than the loser you are drew.
the only logical conclusion if you actually break down the statistics would be to somehow remove black people from the equation. But this is 2015 not 1941 ;)
How did this get overlooked?
The gun owners in this country essentially became so paranoid and nuts years ago that this is the current state of things and the debate. You can't logic them out of it with any sort of discussion. They need their assault rifles and automatics and probably rocket launchers because of the "goverment" and or the dark hordes that would descend on them without them. It's perfect fit for a lot of the irrational thinking that is essentially dominant in this country.Hey bro. I own a lot of guns. Don't lump me in with those a-holes.
In a profile on an Indian matrimonial site, Imilap.com, a user identified as “farooksyed49” described himself as a 22-year-old Muslim living in Riverside and working as a county health inspector.:ohhh
“Enjoy working on vintage and modern cars, read religious books, enjoy eating out sometimes travel and just hang out in back yard doing target practice with younger sister and friends,” the profile read.
However I can also see how if this shit went down in Texas it would result in 30 additional shooting victims because once those rednecks start firing I'm not sure what's going to stop them.I don't know if any of the ATF/FBI agents at Waco were rednecks though.
However I can also see how if this shit went down in Texas it would result in 30 additional shooting victims because once those rednecks start firing I'm not sure what's going to stop them.I don't know if any of the ATF/FBI agents at Waco were rednecks though.
Over the last 48 hours, the unserious parade of clown leftists in politics and the media have jumped on every narrative rake in sight. They desperately wanted the shooting in San Bernardino to be a right-winger with an NRA tramp stamp gone mad. Instead, it turned out to be two Muslims who dropped their six-month-old baby off in order to pursue killing.:bow the king :bow2
Here’s how the left desperately attempted to spin narrative after narrative – and will continue to spin in the coming days, ignoring the very real threat of radical Islam.
It Must Be Pro-Lifers! In the aftermath of the left’s gleeful attempts to tie clinically insane person Robert Dear to the entire pro-life movement, they initially thought they’d hit the narrative gold mine again: a Planned Parenthood was located near the shooting location! How near? Well, not that near. At least a mile away, it turns out.
...
There is a Chuck-E-Cheese 1.5 miles away from the shooting location. They weren’t targeted either.
It Must Be Right-Wingers of Unspecified Political Priority! If it couldn’t be pinned on the pro-life movement, it had to be some other right-wingers, at least according to moral cow pie Markos Moulitsas of Vox.com
...
Oopsies. We Need More Gun Control! As the shootings unfolded, Democrats universally came out of the woodwork to chant to their pagan god, government: The Great God of Government had to stop such nefarious activities by activating the gun control agenda. Barack Obama said to CBS’s Norah O’Donnell, “We have a pattern now of mass shootings in this country that has no parallel anywhere else in the world.”
...
Prayer Is The Problem! One of the odder narratives yesterday came courtesy of the mainstream media, as well as certain Democratic politicians, including a sitting U.S.AIR Senator: those offering thoughts and prayers were the problem. This narrative likely began months ago after the Umpqua Community College shooting, when Obama said that thoughts and prayers weren’t enough; now that narrative has penetrated the leftist mainstream.
...
The same people who believe that when radical Muslims engage in mass shootings, that’s not an indictment of Islam, are now pointing to Christians who pray for shooting victims and labeling them the problem. According to these deep thinkers, if you shout “Allahu akhbar!” while shooting crowds of innocents, that’s not religious in any way; if you pray for the victims, you’re a religious nutjob.
It’s Workplace Violence! This narrative began with the terrorism-associated Council on American-Islamic Relations, which held a press conference late last night. The CAIR spokesman said, “We don’t know the motives. Is it work, rage related? Is it mental illness? Is it extreme ideology? At this point it’s really unknown to us.” Today, President Obama suggested that workplace violence could be a motivation, even though workplace violence isn’t a motivation, but a method. NBC’s Kerry Saunders suggested that the workplace “Christmas party” could have offended the Muslim shooter.
It is highly unlikely that simple hatred of coworkers led to an organized terrorist incident, complete with IED development and GoPro cameras. It is far more likely, as President Obama suggested, that the motivation was Islamic but the targets were workplace-based. Given that the federal government has labeled Fort Hood workplace violence, however, we could see a redux of that narrative here.
Stop The Islamophobia! Sooner or later, we knew we would arrive here. And so we have: when all else fails, blame Islamophobia. On Thursday, Democratic National Committee chair Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-FL) criticized Republicans for demonizing Muslims. That will continue all day.
There’s just one more step before we reach the end of the rake-stepping parade: climate change.
Keep an eye out.
Federal investigators believe there is a "very serious" possibility that Tashfeen Malik, one of two shooters who murdered 14 people and wounded 21 others in San Bernardino, Calif. Wednesday, radicalized her husband and co-assailant, county restaurant inspector Syed Farook, Fox News has learned.
Investigators also believe that the couple had planned a second attack after the shooting at a social service center for the disabled when they were killed in a shootout with local authorities approximately two miles away.
Little is known about Malik's background prior to her meeting Farook. However, a U.S. official confirmed to Fox News that the two met and became engaged after Farook traveled to Saudi Arabia in September 2013. Malik, a Pakistani citizen, applied for a K-1 visa at the American embassy in Islamabad in May 2014 and Farook traveled to Saudi Arabia that July to bring her to the U.S. The Saudi Embassy in Washington has confirmed that Farook's 2014 trip lasted nine days.
They were married on Aug. 16, 2014, in nearby Riverside County, Calif. according to their marriage license. Both listed their religion as Muslim.
Investigators believe that on at least one of those trips to Saudi Arabia, one or both members of the couple made contact with suspected Al Qaeda terrorists. The exact nature of that contact was not immediately clear.
...
Law enforcement sources told Fox News late Thursday that there was a "very strong" possibility that Malik functioned as Farook's terror trainer and may have even put together pipe bombs found by authorities at the various crime scenes Wednesday.
...
Wearing black tactical gear and wielding assault rifles, Farook, 28, and Malik, 27, sprayed as many as 75 rounds into a room at the Inland Regional Center, where about 75 of Farook's co-workers had gathered Wednesday morning. Farook had attended the start of the event but slipped out and returned in battle dress.
Four hours later and two miles away, the couple died in a furious gun battle in which they fired 76 rounds, while 23 law officers unleashed about 380, police said.
As part of the complex investigation late Thursday, authorities were trying to piece together a money trail that would have enabled the suspects to acquire over $30,000 worth of guns and explosives. Public records show that Farook made approximately $51,000 per year as an employee of the San Bernardino County Department of Public Health, making it unlikely he could have afforded such an arsenal out of his own pocket. There is no evidence that Malik had a job.
Among the weapons found were three rigged-together pipe bombs at the social service center, each equipped with a remote-control detonating device that apparently malfunctioned; more than 1,600 rounds of ammunition and multiple pipe bombs in the rented SUV where they died; and 12 pipe bombs, tools for making more, and over 3,000 additional rounds of ammunition at a family home in the nearby town of Redlands.
...
Two weeks ago, Farook and one of the co-workers he killed, 52-year-old Nicholas Thalasinos, had a heated conversation about Islam, according to Kuuleme Stephens, a friend of the victim.
Stephens said she happened to call Thalasinos while he was talking with Farook at work. She said Thalasinos told her Farook "doesn't agree that Islam is not a peaceful religion."
How soon until ISIS gets mentioned with her? 2 days?Too late:
Investigators think that as the San Bernardino, California, attack was happening, female shooter Tashfeen Malik posted a pledge of allegiance to ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi on Facebook, three U.S. officials familiar with the investigation told CNN.
Malik's post was made on an account with a different name, one U.S. official said. The officials did not explain how they knew Malik made the post.
How soon until ISIS gets mentioned with her? 2 days?Too late:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/04/us/san-bernardino-shooting/index.htmlQuoteInvestigators think that as the San Bernardino, California, attack was happening, female shooter Tashfeen Malik posted a pledge of allegiance to ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi on Facebook, three U.S. officials familiar with the investigation told CNN.
Malik's post was made on an account with a different name, one U.S. official said. The officials did not explain how they knew Malik made the post.
Ugh, one of my good friends is trotting out an article arguing that the U.S. doesn't have a particularly bad mass shooting problem because on a per-million basis we have fewer deaths than some other countries. I can't.
One thing, right or left, we call all agree on is that we DEFINITELY have a shooting problem. Both mass and if you read the daily paper, daily in some parts of the country like East Cleveland for instance.LeBron's slump this year from three hasn't been that bad. I'm sure it will turn around.
One thing, right or left, we call all agree on is that we DEFINITELY have a shooting problem. Both mass and if you read the daily paper, daily in some parts of the country like East Cleveland for instance.LeBron's slump this year from three hasn't been that bad. I'm sure it will turn around.
Now what we need is someone to tie this into feminism and #GamerGate. The guy just did whatever his woman told him because he had been turned into a beta male by our PC culture.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CVZe_14WwAA9MH_.jpg)
I had kind of expected secret services in Europe to be understaffed, because we don't like to spend money, but it's funny to see that you too just seem to collect more and more data to then apparently not analyse it properly.How soon until ISIS gets mentioned with her? 2 days?Too late:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/04/us/san-bernardino-shooting/index.htmlQuoteInvestigators think that as the San Bernardino, California, attack was happening, female shooter Tashfeen Malik posted a pledge of allegiance to ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi on Facebook, three U.S. officials familiar with the investigation told CNN.
Malik's post was made on an account with a different name, one U.S. official said. The officials did not explain how they knew Malik made the post.
I've heard a lot of "experts" contend that everything the NSA/etc. is sweeping up is so massive in terms of data that you essentially can't process it all, let alone identify specific plans you can act on in a reasonable time frame, especially legally. I would imagine that's a problem throughout the intelligence services.
It kinda was under lesser means during the Cold War.
It's not everyday you get to grab a snack from a terrorist's fridge:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CVZlvAkWwAAuzgH.jpg)
FBI: Home is still a crime scene. -@pzf[/i]
San Bernardino shooting: Attacker pledged allegiance to ISIS, officials sayCNN :stahp
If law enforcement truly wasn't finished with the scene, this is the worst scene security I have ever seen.
You sit a couple of uniforms in front of the door for as long as you need the scene. Seriously, that's day 1 stuff, people.
I've heard a lot of "experts" contend that everything the NSA/etc. is sweeping up is so massive in terms of data that you essentially can't process it all, let alone identify specific plans you can act on in a reasonable time frame, especially legally. I would imagine that's a problem throughout the intelligence services.
It kinda was under lesser means during the Cold War.
These reporters are acting like they're in an adventure game, stuffing all that evidence in their item bag.
These reporters are acting like they're in an adventure game, stuffing all that evidence in their item bag.
I'm at work and I can't watch right now but are you fucking serious? They are literally taking shit out of the apartment?
CNN reporters outside San Bernardino killers' home says landlord was escorted away by law enforcement, put into unmarked vehicle
If law enforcement truly wasn't finished with the scene, this is the worst scene security I have ever seen.
You sit a couple of uniforms in front of the door for as long as you need the scene. Seriously, that's day 1 stuff, people.
From my perspective it's shocking since I would have thought they need several days to just go through it for fingerprints, bomb materials, etc.
Edit: they finished processing it already?
From my perspective it's shocking since I would have thought they need several days to just go through it for fingerprints, bomb materials, etc.
Edit: they finished processing it already?
Naw. Depending on the extent of what they were searching for and the size and state of the residence, it's not unusual at all that they could be in and done in under a day.
I'm actually kinda torn on this whole gun thing. I own a few guns, i think everybody knows that. And I'm very against taking them away. However I can also see how if this shit went down in Texas it would result in 30 additional shooting victims because once those rednecks start firing I'm not sure what's going to stop them.
Sucks.
You solve problems with the brain you have, not the brain you wish you had.
I'm actually kinda torn on this whole gun thing. I own a few guns, i think everybody knows that. And I'm very against taking them away. However I can also see how if this shit went down in Texas it would result in 30 additional shooting victims because once those rednecks start firing I'm not sure what's going to stop them.
Sucks.
Has never happened in the history of legal use of CCW for self defense. It's not like this is something we don't have a track record for.
You solve problems with the brain you have, not the brain you wish you had.
Et tu, Brute?
MSNBC looked like they were in Fallout 4 mode. Probably grabbed all the duct tape and hot plates on the way out. :dogeThere's been some...budget cuts.
NYT front-page is a gun control editorial tomorrow, their first front-page editorial since 1920.
It is a moral outrage and a national disgrace that civilians can legally purchase weapons designed specifically to kill people with brutal speed and efficiency. These are weapons of war, barely modified and deliberately marketed as tools of macho vigilantism and even insurrection. America’s elected leaders offer prayers for gun victims and then, callously and without fear of consequence, reject the most basic restrictions on weapons of mass killing, as they did on Thursday. They distract us with arguments about the word terrorism. Let’s be clear: These spree killings are all, in their own ways, acts of terrorism.Well, I'm convinced by their cold rational logic, clear statements and goals, detailed information and inventive new thought provoking arguments.
Opponents of gun control are saying, as they do after every killing, that no law can unfailingly forestall a specific criminal. That is true. They are talking, many with sincerity, about the constitutional challenges to effective gun regulation. Those challenges exist. They point out that determined killers obtained weapons illegally in places like France, England and Norway that have strict gun laws. Yes, they did.
But at least those countries are trying. The United States is not. Worse, politicians abet would-be killers by creating gun markets for them, and voters allow those politicians to keep their jobs. It is past time to stop talking about halting the spread of firearms, and instead to reduce their number drastically — eliminating some large categories of weapons and ammunition.
It is not necessary to debate the peculiar wording of the Second Amendment. No right is unlimited and immune from reasonable regulation.
Certain kinds of weapons, like the slightly modified combat rifles used in California, and certain kinds of ammunition, must be outlawed for civilian ownership. It is possible to define those guns in a clear and effective way and, yes, it would require Americans who own those kinds of weapons to give them up for the good of their fellow citizens.
What better time than during a presidential election to show, at long last, that our nation has retained its sense of decency?
Anthony NYC New York 14 hours ago
We ban texting and driving even though free speech is protected by the Constitution. But we can't ban assault weapons because of the second amendment? Really?
488 Recommend
Liz Vermont 14 hours ago
Run this every day until they have the decency and courage to act.
228 Recommend
NS NYC 12 hours ago
In a matter of weeks or months, the nations most wealthy (Gates, Zuckerberg, Buffett) individuals could take controlling interests in US arms and ammunition corporations and, using that power, inject conscience and control into what are surely morally bankrupts boardrooms.
124 Recommend
ScoutandAbout USA 14 hours ago
Thank God the issue of Gun Control is finally coming to the forefront of America's consciousness. Too bad it has taken over 300 mass shootings this year alone to force us to face this epidemic of uncontrolled violence. Hoping it is not too late.
106 Recommend
http://www.rawstory.com/2015/12/they-are-coming-for-you-sandy-hook-truthers-escalate-threats-by-posting-home-address-of-victims-sister/
wtf at this
Bad enough to lose a family member in such a tragedy, now you get threatened and harassed by conspiracy theorists about it? Ugh.
I DO NOT own guns, and the last time I discharged a firearm was on “Second Amendment Day” at a conservative journalism program many years ago. (Yes, dear reader, that’s how conservative journalism programs roll.) My political commitments are more communitarian than libertarian, I don’t think the constitution guarantees a right to bear every kind of gun or magazine, and I think of myself as modestly persuadable in the gun control debate.
Of course that doesn’t mean I really am, since we’re all tribal creatures and gun rights advocates are part of my strange and motley right-wing tribe. But at the very least I understand why the idea of strict gun control has such a following, why it seems to many people like the obvious response to mass shootings — whether the perpetrators are ISIS sympathizers, mad right-wingers, or simply mad — and why the sorrowful public piety of Republican politicians after a gun massacre drives liberals into a fury.
That fury, though, needs a little more cool reasoning behind it. It’s fine to demand actions, not just prayers, in response to gun violence. But today’s liberalism often lacks a clear sense of which actions might actually address the problem – and, just as importantly, a clear appreciation of what those actions might cost.
Sometimes, it’s suggested that all we need are modest, “common-sense” changes to gun laws: Tighter background checks, new ways to trace firearms, bans on the deadliest weapons.
This idea was the basis for the Manchin-Toomey bill that failed in 2013 in the Senate. It was also, though, the basis for two major pieces of gun legislation that passed in the 1990s: The Brady Law requiring background checks for handguns and the assault weapons ban.
Both measures were promoted as common-sense reforms — in the case of the Brady Law, by none other than Ronald Reagan. But both failed to have an appreciable impact on homicides — even as other policies, like hiring more police officers, probably did. That double failure, some gun control supporters will tell you, has to do with the loopholes those two laws left open — particularly the fact that individuals selling guns aren’t required to run background checks when they sell within their home state.
But that claim’s very plausibility points to the problem: With 300 million guns in private hands in the United States, it’s very difficult to devise a non-intrusive, “common-sense” approach to regulating their exchange by individuals. Ultimately, you need more than background checks; you need many fewer guns in circulation, period. To their credit, many gun control supporters acknowledge this point, which is why there is a vogue for citing the Australian experience, where a sweeping and mandatory gun buyback followed a 1996 mass shooting.
The clearest evidence shows that Australia’s reform mostly reduced suicides — as the Brady law may have done — while the evidence on homicides is murkier. (In general, the evidence linking gun ownership rates to murder rates is relatively weak.) But a lower suicide rate would be a real public health achievement, even if it isn’t immediately relevant to the mass shooting debate.
Does that make “getting to Australia” a compelling long-term goal for liberalism? Maybe, but liberals need to count the cost. Absent a total cultural revolution in America, a massive gun collection effort would face significant resistance even once legislative and judicial battles had been won. The best analogue is Prohibition, which did have major public health benefits … but which came at a steep cost in terms of police powers, black markets and trampled liberties.
I suspect liberals imagine, at some level, that a Prohibition-style campaign against guns would mostly involve busting up gun shows and disarming Robert Dear-like trailer-park loners. But in practice it would probably look more like Michael Bloomberg’s controversial stop-and-frisk policy, with a counterterrorism component that ended up heavily targeting Muslim Americans. In areas where gun ownership is high but crime rates low, like Bernie Sanders’ Vermont, authorities would mostly turn a blind eye to illegal guns, while poor and minority communities bore the brunt of raids and fines and jail terms.
Here the relevant case study is probably not Australia, but France. The French have the kind of strict gun laws that American liberals favor, and they have fewer gun deaths than we do. But their strict gun laws are part of a larger matrix of illiberalism — a mix of Bloombergist police tactics, Trump-like disdain for religious liberty, and campus-left-style restrictions on free speech. (And then France also has a lively black market in weaponry, which determined terrorists unfortunately seem to have little difficulty acquiring.)
Despite their occasional sympathies for Gallic socialism, I don’t think American liberals necessarily want to “get to France” in this illiberal sense.
But to be persuasive, rather than just self-righteous, a case for gun control needs to explain why that isn’t where we would end up.
Every time one of these mass shootings happens I'm basically ready to turn mine in. I realize my ownership of rifles, shotguns, and handguns for my personal enjoyment is not more important than the public good. But I think that the "common sense" gun laws proposed by today's liberal leaders (expanded background checks, "assault weapon" bans, repealing weapons manufacturer civil immunity, limiting access by the mentally ill, etc.) simply doesn't do enough. This country has too many guns and I think that the Australia model (sweeping bans, government buyback) is probably the best model to reduce them.
Sounds more like a minimum wage job for you, breh.Every time one of these mass shootings happens I'm basically ready to turn mine in. I realize my ownership of rifles, shotguns, and handguns for my personal enjoyment is not more important than the public good. But I think that the "common sense" gun laws proposed by today's liberal leaders (expanded background checks, "assault weapon" bans, repealing weapons manufacturer civil immunity, limiting access by the mentally ill, etc.) simply doesn't do enough. This country has too many guns and I think that the Australia model (sweeping bans, government buyback) is probably the best model to reduce them.
That's a good citizen. Now, pick up that can.
good thing I get paid $23 an hour and rising, what is it that you do again? :smug
A good start would be to stop selling new weapons and ammo. You can start with banning military-grade guns and then proceed with smaller arms. Ammunition has an expiration date so you don't need to force the population to hand in their old belongings. If you want to make the process faster then the state can offer to buy back any weapon or ammo for a good price.
Every time one of these mass shootings happens I'm basically ready to turn mine in. I realize my ownership of rifles, shotguns, and handguns for my personal enjoyment is not more important than the public good. But I think that the "common sense" gun laws proposed by today's liberal leaders (expanded background checks, "assault weapon" bans, repealing weapons manufacturer civil immunity, limiting access by the mentally ill, etc.) simply doesn't do enough. This country has too many guns and I think that the Australia model (sweeping bans, government buyback) is probably the best model to reduce them.
Also its not really about Samson being responsible. If he has a kid, will the kid be responsible? What if his kid is bullied and decides to shoot up the school, or more likely kill himself? What if his kid has a friend that knows Samson has guns and steals them? What if a stranger steals them? No matter how responsible you are there is always a slight chance something will go wrong, and when there are so many gun owners, something will certainly go wrong.
The idea that responsible gun owners don't contribute to overall gun culture is a confusing one.I think you're arguing against a point no one ever made. PD was basically just pointing out that if Samson and people like him in turned in their guns nothing will really change as long as the overwhelming idiots don't follow suit.
It's like someone arguing someone who drives a car isn't adding to the problem of air pollution. Sure, we gotta do what we gotta do. But it in no way doesn't mean that we all aren't complicit in aiding the creation of a toxic environment.
Except in this case, most people need cars just to get to their jobs so they're important on a basic level. Whereas with guns, they're not essential to most people. They're just hobbies, and yet contribute to so much death and destruction.
Responsible gun ownership would be a valid argument in a world that isn't as connected as ours. If your response to the amount of gun violence currently in America is "I'm not part of the problem, I'm a responsible gun owner" I'm not sure if I can take that seriously as a measured and reasonable statement. Every thing about it seems to betray the social contract and putting your own interests ahead of everyone else.
Shoot: give me a valid argument that personal liberty to 'responsible" gun ownership outweighs the amount of unnecessary deaths caused this year alone? Phoenix Dark, Drew, I'm all ears.
how do you fund a buy-back program for 300 million guns tho? :dogeBy secretly selling them to a third world country!
I also REALLY don't understand the resistance to voluntary gun buybacks by the far right. Who gives a shit if people want to sell their guns back to the government? I thought these morons were all about freedom to do what they want.
Every time one of these mass shootings happens I'm basically ready to turn mine in. I realize my ownership of rifles, shotguns, and handguns for my personal enjoyment is not more important than the public good. But I think that the "common sense" gun laws proposed by today's liberal leaders (expanded background checks, "assault weapon" bans, repealing weapons manufacturer civil immunity, limiting access by the mentally ill, etc.) simply doesn't do enough. This country has too many guns and I think that the Australia model (sweeping bans, government buyback) is probably the best model to reduce them.
What does the public good have to do with your personal decision to have guns? You're what I assume to be a responsible gun owner, you're not the problem.
Buy back programs seem like a good idea+potentially decent form of stimulus. But I don't see how such funds could be allocated without a massive fight regardless of who controls congress.I would be perfectly fine with all of this.
My general view on guns is that people have a right to own them assuming they meet the requirements. In terms of gun control policy I support closing gun show loopholes, harsh takedowns on gun trafficking, and eliminating straw purchases. Expanding background checks and easier access to mental health. Mass shootings are hard to prevent. I'm more interested in lowering gun violence in cities. Chicago is a war zone in large part due to guns being trafficked underground, through Indiana and other states with lax gun laws. Likewise in Detroit, where you can literally buy various types for $50-500 off the street.
good thing I get paid $23 an hour and rising, what is it that you do again? :smug
Ammunition expires but not very quickly if kept under correct conditions. We shot ammo from the 70s and 80s in the Army not infrequently.
The point is you need to do it by steps. You can't just take away peoples guns, you need to start with a legal precedent. Its easier to get people to agree that AR-15s are really just something people buy for fun compared to a handgun, so you ban them first.
Yeah but why do you specifically need an automatic rifle to achieve that
smh u fuckin cornball
Thankfully I live in the United States of America where we have the Bill of Rights and the Constitution, so I really don't NEED to answer that.muh freedoms
smh u fuckin cornball
I use an AR for home defense
No you don't.
I use an AR for home defense
No you don't.
and even one guy who was in the Spetsnaz in Afghanistan during the 80's (picking his brain during down time was fun).
Nobody said you don't use them, just not for the stated purpose.
See that part above is why you don't need a gun. I own guns, but you should probably use nerf equipment. There is no glory in violence. None.
Nobody said you don't use them, just not for the stated purpose.
whats wrong with Mr. Hathcock? Here's a quote from him from that Wikipedia page - "I like shooting, and I love hunting. But I never did enjoy killing anybody. It's my job. If I don't get those bastards, then they're gonna kill a lot of these kids dressed up like Marines. That's the way I look at it."
Well that's good because in my experience anybody who glorifies war has either never been in one or is completely psychotic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Hathcock) or (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Marcinko) btw the second loonie linked here contributed heavily to the anarchist's cookbook.Forever immortalized as the Rogue Warrior (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cQhxBDtIMI), voiced by Mickey Rourke. :doge
Well that's good because in my experience anybody who glorifies war has either never been in one or is completely psychotic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Hathcock) or (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Marcinko) btw the second loonie linked here contributed heavily to the anarchist's cookbook.Forever immortalized as the Rogue Warrior (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cQhxBDtIMI), voiced by Mickey Rourke. :doge
Hey drew can you post some more pictures? I need to update http://lookatthisoperator.tumblr.com
Yes, that's the ticket, drew. Keep posting about how obsessively and extensively you train for your home defense scenarios. That will prove my point wrong.
(CNN)Investigators believe San Bernardino shooter Syed Rizwan Farook may have been plotting an earlier attack in California with someone else, two U.S. officials said.:doge
One of the officials said the two conspired in 2012 and a specific target was considered. Neither of the officials could say how serious the plotting got.
San Bernardino shooters: What we do and don't know about their radicalization
One official said the two decided not to go through with the earlier attack after a round of terror-related arrests in the area.
"They got spooked," the official said.
The purported plot bolsters assertions law enforcement officials have made since the San Bernardino attacks, saying Farook had been radicalized for a time before the shooting.
Last week's mass shooting in San Bernardino, Calif., that killed 14 was reportedly planned up to a year in advance.
The suspected killers began practicing with guns and making financial preparations in 2014, according to NBC News.
Syed Farook and Tashfeen Malik began honing their firearms skills last year at a shooting range in Riverside, Calif., NBC said, citing two sources.
Couterterrorism officials said the pair began making monetary savings for their child and Farook’s mother during the same period.
“[They wanted to] take care of both Grandma and the baby,” one official told NBC News, referencing the couple’s six-month old daughter and Rafia Farook, 62.
“They had purposely thought through that problem,” they continued. "[Some transactions] would be consistent with them making preparations for grandma and the kid.”
“There were other indications of preparation,” the official added, not specifying further details.
I am guilty there will be no trial. I am a warrior for the babies
PP shooterQuoteI am guilty there will be no trial. I am a warrior for the babies
You sure were a warrior for the babies of the parents you killed bucko. Ugh.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/09/us/colorado-planned-parenthood-shooting/index.html?sr=twCNN120915colorado-planned-parenthood-shooting1001PMVODtopPhoto&linkId=19454678
Says they do, kind of narrowing my eyes at like rhetoric that's all "he didn't even shoot people getting abortions", it's that kind of speech that, and maybe without some people realizing, semi-justifies the horrors inflicted on women who DO get abortions and the doctors that perform them.
Says they do, kind of narrowing my eyes at like rhetoric that's all "he didn't even shoot people getting abortions", it's that kind of speech that, and maybe without some people realizing, semi-justifies the horrors inflicted on women who DO get abortions and the doctors that perform them.
Yeah, sorry, of course that's not my intended meaning. Or subtext. Or thought.
Seems like everyone's chill in New Hampshire
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/daily-show-good-guy-with-gun-debunk
http://www.sunherald.com/news/local/crime/article56305535.html
:cac
The Seattle Times reported that Gallion’s explanations for how exactly the gun went off varied significantly. His father, Donald Gallion, told police that his son said the gun had fallen from his pocket and gone off. But Gallion himself told the arresting officer that another movie attendee had reached for his crotch, causing him to accidentally fire the weapon. He then told a different officer at the police station that a man had been bothering him and that the gun accidentally went off during their altercation, according to the newspaper.
http://abc7.com/news/ucla-on-lockdown-amid-reports-of-shooting/1366494/
:beli
'Thoughts and prayers' is really the least amount of shit you could give.
Christopher Hansen said he was in the VIP lounge when he started hearing gunshots.:ohhh
Over / under on Repubs giving their thoughts and prayers to the Orlando gay community ?Whew, we're saved:
At a press conference on Sunday at 7 a.m., FBI assistant agent in charge of the agency's Tampa division Ron Hopper was asked if the shooter, who was shot and killed by police, had ties to Jihadist terror groups. "At this time we're looking at all angles right now." the official said. "We do have suggestions that that individual may have leanings towards that, that particular ideology. But right now we can’t say definitively so we’re still running everything around”
The FBI also said the shooter "was organized and well-prepared," adding "he is not from this area."
Over / under on Repubs giving their thoughts and prayers to the Orlando gay community ?
Over / under on Repubs giving their thoughts and prayers to the Orlando gay community ?
all comments I see: it's either ONLY about guns or ONLY about (Islamic) terrorism
most negative comments i'm seeing put up now are like "ironic these are the same liberals constantly preaching about tolerance"
a. that's not ironic, IT'S JUST COINCIDENTIAL
2. apparently all gay people are lieberals just like the hispanics
Will we have to endure conservative politicians who more or less think LGBT people don't have the right to exist using this to drum up more support for our bloated morass of a security state?You can't be cured of the gay and made into an upstanding moral citizen if you're dead.
all comments I see: it's either ONLY about guns or ONLY about (Islamic) terrorism
The asshole was on a watchlist by the FBI. Of course he shouldn't have been able to acquire a goddamned gun.
This is about hate and ease of gun ownership. Who gives a shit about religion.
Will we have to endure conservative politicians who more or less think LGBT people don't have the right to exist using this to drum up more support for our bloated morass of a security state?You can't be cured of the gay and made into an upstanding moral citizen if you're dead.
Ted Cruz's statement was especially rich given that he palled around all election season with a pastor who advocates gay murder.
also something something open borders something something ignore he's an american
I still don't get the reasoning behind the father saying "he saw some dudes kissing in Miami a couple of month ago so that's why he went to Orlando and did this."
:mindblown
Omar Mateen lived a double life.
The homophobic maniac who murdered 49 people inside Orlando’s gay-friendly nightclub Pulse Sunday morning had been hanging out there for three years — and chatted with men via online dating services like Grindr, said multiple witnesses who claimed to have firsthand knowledge of Mateen’s habits.
A former classmate of Omar Mateen’s 2006 police academy class, however, said he believed Mateen was gay.
Speaking to WFTV9 in Orlando, the classmate, who asked not to be named, said he was gay in 2006 but had not yet come out about his sexuality.
Mateen had asked him out, the classmate said.
“We went to a few gay bars with him, and I was not out at the time, so I declined his offer,” the former classmate said.
“He just wanted to fit in and no one liked him,” he said. “He was always socially awkward,” the classmate told WFTV9.
Mateen, who had married again, this time to Noor Salman who bore him a son, also visited Pulse several times over the past three years, according to club patrons.
One couple, who work together as drag-dancing performers, said they’d seen Mateen as many as a dozen times at Pulse.
Ty Smith and Chris Callen also said they’d seen him escorted drunk from the club more than once.
He estimates Mateen began showing up about three years ago. Everybody was blown away to realize he was the man responsible for the slaughter.
“It’s shocking to everyone because we saw him there before,” said Callen.
He said one night Mateen got angry about a religious joke and pulled a knife on a friend. But it was nothing the friend couldn’t handle, Callen said.
Another report claimed Mateen was known to contact men on gay online apps. At least one man came forward Monday to say Mateen had contacted him on Grindr, according to MSNBC.
The man also said he knew friends who’d been contacted by Mateen on Jack’d and Adam4Adam, other online gay dating services.
Callen and Smith said Mateen liked to let loose at Pulse in a way he could not around his religious family at home.
“(He’d get) really, really drunk. ... He couldn’t drink when he was at home — around his wife, or family. His father was really strict. ... He used to bitch about it,” Smith told Canadian Press.
Surprising:We all have bets as to how long until he's excommunicated.
http://wonkette.com/602990/this-utah-republican-publicly-mourning-gay-orlando-victims-will-make-you-ugly-cry
I dunno. I honestly believe the majority of people are more tolerant than the noisy extremists would have us believe. This is true for left- and right-wing, christians and muslims, and doubly true for buddhists-who-don't-live-in-California.Surprising:We all have bets as to how long until he's excommunicated.
http://wonkette.com/602990/this-utah-republican-publicly-mourning-gay-orlando-victims-will-make-you-ugly-cry
Has there been another time when the cameras were told to be shut off?IIRC Democrats did it to Republicans in '08 or something. The rule is that cameras are off when Congress isn't in session so they end the session, cameras turn off.
Sit in ended with jack shit achieved: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/democrats-end-gun-control-sit-after-more-24-hours-house-n597741
“It would be horribly tragic if my ability to protect myself or my family were to be taken away, but that’s exactly what Democrats are determined to do by banning semi-automatic handguns,” she wrote on March 2.
Quote“It would be horribly tragic if my ability to protect myself or my family were to be taken away, but that’s exactly what Democrats are determined to do by banning semi-automatic handguns,” she wrote on March 2.
:goty
If two blonde white teen girls getting capped by their pro gun rights mom wont change gun laws nothing will
I watched part of the OSU-Michigan game this weekend, legit shook rn.I watched highlights this morning be safe everyone
Turned out to be a car/knife attack, not a shooting. Liberals agenda fails again.that didn't stop ol tim kaine
Turned out to be a car/knife attack, not a shooting. Liberals agenda fails again.that didn't stop ol tim kaine
Some boring old white dude bought a dozen machine guns and shot 600+ from the comfort of his hotel room. I can't even, man.He should have shot the last person first imo.
"We know nothing. If you told me an asteroid fell it would mean the same to me. There's absolutely no sense, no reason he did this," he said, earlier. "He's just a guy who played video poker and took cruises and ate burritos at Taco Bell."
“Look, we have a tragedy. We’re going to — what happened in Las Vegas is in many ways a miracle. The police department has done such an incredible job, and we’ll be talking about gun laws as time goes by,” Trump told reporters outside the White House before traveling to Puerto Rico. “But I do have to say how quickly the police department was able to get in was really very much of a miracle. They’ve done an amazing job.”
Police said the suspect, Emanuel Kidega Samson, was wearing a mask when he entered Burnett Chapel Church of Christ in Antioch, a small community outside Nashville, and began shooting. One parishioner was shot in the parking lot and died; six other people, including the minister, were wounded.
People close to the investigation said a note found in the gunman’s car indicated he may have been seeking revenge for the 2015 shooting at Emanuel AME, a historically black church in Charleston.
Quote“Look, we have a tragedy. We’re going to — what happened in Las Vegas is in many ways a miracle. The police department has done such an incredible job, and we’ll be talking about gun laws as time goes by,” Trump told reporters outside the White House before traveling to Puerto Rico. “But I do have to say how quickly the police department was able to get in was really very much of a miracle. They’ve done an amazing job.”
:thinking
Maybe it was Michelle Bachmann?
Las Vegas Strip mass murderer Stephen Paddock used his Mandalay Bay hotel room to fire bullets at jet fuel tanks Sunday night, a knowledgeable source told the Las Vegas Review-Journal.
The bullets left two holes in one of two circular white tanks. One of the bullets penetrated the tank, but did not cause a fire or explosion near the Route 91 Harvest country music festival, another knowledgeable source said late Wednesday.
“Airport fueling has not been compromised,” McCarran spokesman Chris Jones said late Wednesday. “It’s functional.”
Authorities believe it's unlikely that the Las Vegas gunman targeted jet fuel tanks located at an airport next to the scene of the massacre.
Adam Housley reported from the city this morning that law enforcement sources he spoke to pushed back on a report in the Las Vegas Review-Journal.
Las Vegas Shooter Attempted An Even Bigger TragedyTHAT DOESN'T SEEM TO SETTLE IT, I NEED RAW STORY COMMENTS, STAT:
Posted at 9:00 am on October 5, 2017 by Susan Wright
Drip, drip, drip.
That seems to be the pace of emerging details about the horrific mass shooting that occurred at an open air country music festival on Sunday night in Las Vegas, as well as the shooter, Stephen Paddock, but it’s coming.
Investigators surmised that the second broken window on the east side of the Mandalay Bay Hotel room where Paddock was staying was to give him a better view of the tanks. The northeastern facing window gave him a view of the concert crowd.
The tanks were approximately 1,100 feet from the concert site. Construction crews have since repaired the holes, and the FBI has taken measurements from the tanks, which sit near hangars owned by prominent companies, to the hotel.
DQKennard • 18 hours ago
I guess he'd have had better "success" with some of those high-power armor-piercing bullets the gun fetishists want, and that the ammo manufacturers want to sell them.
pattiepea DQKennard • 18 hours ago
and what could have happened if you couldn't 'hear' the bullets? And the GOP wants to make it easier for everyone to get a silencer.
proreviewer • 18 hours ago
Holy shit. He could've blown up the airport and/or half the people at the concert. This easily could've rivaled Oklahoma City, if not 9/11
Dewey • 17 hours ago
can the President utter the words WHITE DOMESTIC TERRORIST?The intent is in the PROOF! 58 killed, hundreds wounded and now evidence of a much larger planned and attempted attack.Come on Drumpfy garner the balls and call it as it is.
(((chimera: #resist#persist))) • 17 hours ago
If these tanks had exploded what would they have also done to the hotel and the people in it? Also, what about his car in the hotel parking lot? deck? that had 50+ pounds of high-powered explosives in the trunk? What would the exploding aviation fuel tanks done to that? That is even scarier!
stingray68 • 17 hours ago
Shooter man could have punctured the tanks with bullets, using a .50 cal sniper rifle, for example, then used tracer rounds to ignite the leaking fuel. Big boom guaranteed.
pattiepea • 18 hours ago
ISIS learned a lesson today; and it's not good news for America.
shivabeach • 18 hours ago
Talk about luck. This could have been horrifying
outhousemouse • 9 hours ago
One thing i have seen with most all of these mass shootings is almost everyone of the shooters are on some kind of psychotropic drug, I believe it plays at least some part in these events.
I have read that a large percentage of the population are on these drugs and you would have to believe the same percent of out police forces are on these drugs might go to explain some of the police shootings we are seeing,
then used tracer rounds to ignite the leaking fuel. Big boom guaranteed.
WASHINGTON — Marilou Danley, the woman investigators hoped would provide key details into the motive behind her boyfriend's deadly shooting attack, said she remembers him exhibiting symptoms such as lying in bed and moaning, according to two former FBI officials who have been briefed on the matter.
"She said he would lie in bed, just moaning and screaming, 'Oh, my God,'" one of the former officials said.
Hm. (https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/las-vegas-shooting/vegas-shooter-s-girlfriend-says-he-would-lie-bed-moaning-n808156)QuoteWASHINGTON — Marilou Danley, the woman investigators hoped would provide key details into the motive behind her boyfriend's deadly shooting attack, said she remembers him exhibiting symptoms such as lying in bed and moaning, according to two former FBI officials who have been briefed on the matter.
"She said he would lie in bed, just moaning and screaming, 'Oh, my God,'" one of the former officials said.
I do this sometimes when my rent is due
Hm. (https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/las-vegas-shooting/vegas-shooter-s-girlfriend-says-he-would-lie-bed-moaning-n808156)QuoteWASHINGTON — Marilou Danley, the woman investigators hoped would provide key details into the motive behind her boyfriend's deadly shooting attack, said she remembers him exhibiting symptoms such as lying in bed and moaning, according to two former FBI officials who have been briefed on the matter.
"She said he would lie in bed, just moaning and screaming, 'Oh, my God,'" one of the former officials said.
I do this sometimes when my rent is due
Shooting explained! Valium. Getting on anti-anxiety medications in general and taking more than the therapeutic dosages will make you do some crazy shit. I forget who posted the article about the guy’s wife going mental on an anti-depressant and linking her to the shooter but, welp, there ya go.
https://www.facebook.com/notes/john-ringo/a-theory-on-las-vegas/10155111388257055/
Has four kidneys and four ankles. (She ate the good twin.)lol
Was once listed as one of the top five Adult ADHD in the US and the only one who was clinically functional.
Someone on resetera posted a tweet that 3 of the 5 deadliest mass shootings in the USA have all occurred in the last year, with 2 of the top 5 in the last month now. :|
I feel like church shootings are becoming more and more common. Wonder if they'll start putting metal detectors in at the entrances to all churches or something.
Congress is apparently moving ahead on bump stocks. good.
I feel like church shootings are becoming more and more common. Wonder if they'll start putting metal detectors in at the entrances to all churches or something.
So just an atheist that wanted to kill people who believed in God and a comment section saying he was antifa? :thinking
My BS meter is tingling.
America: Be prepared to die anywhere at anytime.
Got a text from a guy I sometimes go shooting with: "Only a month and yet another mass shooting. Seems like operation scare people to give up guns." :doge JFC
Yeah but it would decimate the retail labor force
My response was that he sounded insane.Got a text from a guy I sometimes go shooting with: "Only a month and yet another mass shooting. Seems like operation scare people to give up guns." :doge JFC
I hope that was your response to him.
My response was that he sounded insane.Got a text from a guy I sometimes go shooting with: "Only a month and yet another mass shooting. Seems like operation scare people to give up guns." :doge JFC
I hope that was your response to him.
What happened this time?Something something guns, something something school, something something 17 dead kids.
The rate of these events has me to the point where I'm wondering what made this one so special to get so much coverage when like 15 of the other 20 this year only got a "in other news" type blip of coverage.
the attack on a Florida high school is the eighth shooting to have resulted in death or injury during the first seven weeks of the year
Also for the first time in my life I work with people who own guns and yeeeah, they still don't think we need gun control.
Fucking assisited suicide to prevent gun deaths. :mindblown
What makes you think someone that seeks to lash out at the world is going to just decide on assisted suicide instead? Your idea doesn't make a whole lot of sense.Fucking assisited suicide to prevent gun deaths. :mindblown
Not gun deaths, mass shootings. Huge difference.
Also, 2/3 of the 33,000 per year gun deaths ARE suicides.
Mass shootings are just suicides where the person blames the world (or an institution) and not himself. Which is why they lash out in public places.
If you give people a proper channel to commit suicide they might get the intervention they need to not do it. The current paradigm is NOT working because while homicide rates are going down, suicide rate is going UP.
So....white nationalist?
http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-florida-shooting-suspect-charged-20180215-story.html
I knew them getting emboldened by Trump would not bring good stuff, but I wasn't expecting it to be this bad.
What makes you think someone that seeks to lash out at the world is going to just decide on assisted suicide instead? Your idea doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
If it were as simple as ubiquity of guns being the answer to all gun deaths, then our homicide rates would also be going up. But, they have dramatically gone down over the past 20-30 years.No one said it was a single factor issue. I suggested, and would continue to argue, that evidence shows that the most effective policy solution to reduce gun deaths that we know of has to do with dealing with two particular factors: access and supply.
Mass shootings are more about mental health and not the access to guns. That's what I'm trying to say when espousing assisted suicide. It's an avenue to get people "at risk" into care.QuoteWhat makes you think someone that seeks to lash out at the world is going to just decide on assisted suicide instead? Your idea doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
Some will, some won't. This isn't a silver bullet solution.
Suicide isn't something a person wakes up one day and decides to do. They struggle with it for months, years and decades until they finally break.
Also for the first time in my life I work with people who own guns and yeeeah, they still don't think we need gun control.
Of course they don't. The only solution is even more guns.
American logic at its finest.
The logic makes sense on an individual level, at least in the sense that you can understand it. Bad guys have guns, if I have gun I can protect myself from their guns. It's when you expand it out to "everyone should have a gun" is when it gets messy, but I don't think most gun nuts really advocate for everyone having a gun. It's more they don't ever want the government to be able to tell them they can't have a gun.
fwiw the shooter here was arrested and is alive, like Dylann Roof and the Aurora, Colorado shooter.
The pattern is that volatility of shootings rise but not the frequency as much.
Idk, ToxicAdam, I don't think the legality of suicide has a thing to do with with stigma, and I'm not sure how many people even know/give a shit that it's technically a crime anyway. Sure, tell me more about how suicide being illegal stigmatizes people that can't be charged because they're dead, TOXICADAM
The thing with guns is the fatalistic way gun nuts look at the problem. "You'll never be able to solve it!" yeah, that's true. There's always going to be people that get guns and use them illegally. You can't stop it. But we're supposed to just put up our hands and be like "Guess I'll die then" No other area of crime do we just say "Welp, I guess we should just live with it."
The pattern is that volatility of shootings rise but not the frequency as much.
How do you mean?
Legalizing it helps break up the stigma around it. By allowing suffering people to die in dignity on their own terms, you give room for more people to be more open about it and their struggles with it.
We had a similar stigma around depression/anxiety at one time (in the US) and that lead many people into severe alcoholism in an effort to help combat it. Which in turn, caused numerous other related problems.
It's the stigma I am talking about. That is way more powerful than any law. Stigma feeds into shame. Shame feeds into silence. Years of bottling it up and never seeking help leads to people breaking in a dramatic fashion. Sometimes hurting others in the process.
Legalizing it helps break up the stigma around it. By allowing suffering people to die in dignity on their own terms, you give room for more people to be more open about it and their struggles with it.
We had a similar stigma around depression/anxiety at one time (in the US) and that lead many people into severe alcoholism in an effort to help combat it. Which in turn, caused numerous other related problems.
The "chasing fame" aspect of mass shooters. Which is another significant factor in this discussion when trying to figure out why it's so prevalent here.
The pattern is that volatility of shootings rise but not the frequency as much.
How do you mean?
The rate of mass shootings are not going up in frequency (some variance year to year, but rather consistent frequency) but there is concern that there is an urge to out-do the last mass shooter, leading to what can best be described as kill count scorekeeping.
I don't even remember the Vegas shooter's name or face.
Grant Duwe, a Ph.D. researcher in Minnesota and the author of Mass Murder in the United States: A History, has shown that mass murders actually track closely with homicide rates—and that, in the past decade, both dropped to their lowest levels since the 1960s. Indeed, according to Duwe’s research, the rate of mass murder was highest in 1929,
James Alan Fox, a criminologist at Northeastern University in Boston, is one of the most prominent critics of the media’s mythology of increased mass murder. His own research shows that the numbers of mass shootings and mass-shooting victims in America have been remarkably consistent: roughly 20 shootings a year, with an average of 100 deaths. The number of shootings fluctuates annually, in spikes, which Fox credits to copycatting or sheer coincidence, but the average has held for 30 years.
You have to know how the kid acquired the gun in order to figure what sort of policy would be effective or if he just went around existing policy.
You have to know how the kid acquired the gun in order to figure what sort of policy would be effective or if he just went around existing policy.
...and then the NRA/republicans will reject any potentially effective solution presented. :doge
You have to know how the kid acquired the gun in order to figure what sort of policy would be effective or if he just went around existing policy.
...and then the NRA/republicans will reject any potentially effective solution presented. :doge
Not necessarily. They did ban bump stocks after Las Vegas thankfully.
You have to know how the kid acquired the gun in order to figure what sort of policy would be effective or if he just went around existing policy.
...and then the NRA/republicans will reject any potentially effective solution presented. :doge
Not necessarily. They did ban bump stocks after Las Vegas thankfully.
No, they didn't; it passed the House and hasn't been taken up in the senate. States have started banning them though.
You have to know how the kid acquired the gun in order to figure what sort of policy would be effective or if he just went around existing policy.
...and then the NRA/republicans will reject any potentially effective solution presented. :doge
Not necessarily. They did ban bump stocks after Las Vegas thankfully.
No, they didn't; it passed the House and hasn't been taken up in the senate. States have started banning them though.
You have to know how the kid acquired the gun in order to figure what sort of policy would be effective or if he just went around existing policy.
...and then the NRA/republicans will reject any potentially effective solution presented. :doge
Not necessarily. They did ban bump stocks after Las Vegas thankfully.
No, they didn't; it passed the House and hasn't been taken up in the senate. States have started banning them though.
Ah, I was referring to the house.
http://www.heraldnet.com/news/grandmother-turns-in-teen-who-allegedly-planned-shooting/It’s like some sort of demented video game to these sociopaths...
A would-be school shooter in Everett bought inert grenades, hid a military-style rifle in a guitar case and carried out an armed robbery to fund an elaborate plot to kill his classmates, according to police.
O’Connor wrote that he wanted the death count to be as high as possible so that the shooting would be infamous, according to court papers. He went into detail about building pressure-cooker bombs, activating inert grenades and deploying explosives for maximum casualties.
“I need to make this count,” O’Connor reportedly wrote. “I’ve been reviewing many mass shootings/bombings (and attempted bombings) I’m learning from past shooters/bombers mistakes.”
You think to yourself that keeping a journal of this is dumb as hell, but then you realize its part of the whole ego trip.
I find it disgusting how the media uses these situations to take actual victims of this to propagate an anti-gun narrative when we KNOW that the FBI received a warning about this kid and did nothing with it. But guns are the SOLE problem? Same with Omar Mateen. Guy had red flags. Was put on lists. But nope. The government isn’t even doing its job here. But somehow more laws will fix things? How was he not flagged when purchasing? That’s the REAL question.
The AR-15 rifle used in the attack was purchased legally, at Sunrise Tactical Supply in Florida, according to a federal law enforcement official. “No laws were violated in the procurement of this weapon,” said Peter J. Forcelli, the special agent in charge for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives in Miami.
QuoteGrant Duwe, a Ph.D. researcher in Minnesota and the author of Mass Murder in the United States: A History, has shown that mass murders actually track closely with homicide rates—and that, in the past decade, both dropped to their lowest levels since the 1960s. Indeed, according to Duwe’s research, the rate of mass murder was highest in 1929,QuoteJames Alan Fox, a criminologist at Northeastern University in Boston, is one of the most prominent critics of the media’s mythology of increased mass murder. His own research shows that the numbers of mass shootings and mass-shooting victims in America have been remarkably consistent: roughly 20 shootings a year, with an average of 100 deaths. The number of shootings fluctuates annually, in spikes, which Fox credits to copycatting or sheer coincidence, but the average has held for 30 years.
And several graphs in this piece:
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/10/04/mass-shootings-more-deadly-frequent-research-215678
I find it disgusting how the media uses these situations to take actual victims of this to propagate an anti-gun narrative when we KNOW that the FBI received a warning about this kid and did nothing with it. But guns are the SOLE problem? Same with Omar Mateen. Guy had red flags. Was put on lists. But nope. The government isn’t even doing its job here. But somehow more laws will fix things? How was he not flagged when purchasing? That’s the REAL question.You know why the government isn't doing its job? Because of the same fucking people that prevent any and all gun control legislation.
The "chasing fame" aspect of mass shooters. Which is another significant factor in this discussion when trying to figure out why it's so prevalent here.
I don't even remember the Vegas shooter's name or face.
He was a cis, straight, upper middle class, middle aged white man. What else do you need to know?
I find it disgusting how the media uses these situations to take actual victims of this to propagate an anti-gun narrative when we KNOW that the FBI received a warning about this kid and did nothing with it. But guns are the SOLE problem? Same with Omar Mateen. Guy had red flags. Was put on lists. But nope. The government isn’t even doing its job here. But somehow more laws will fix things? How was he not flagged when purchasing? That’s the REAL question.Quote from: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/15/us/ar15-mass-shootings-guns.htmlThe AR-15 rifle used in the attack was purchased legally, at Sunrise Tactical Supply in Florida, according to a federal law enforcement official. “No laws were violated in the procurement of this weapon,” said Peter J. Forcelli, the special agent in charge for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives in Miami.
In February 2017, he signed legislation cutting an Obama-era regulation that added to the national gun background check database the names of people who are receiving Social Security checks for mental illnesses and people who are deemed unfit to handle their own financial affairs.
Trump signed the bill without fanfare, NBC News reported.
The action was applauded by the NRA. “Today marks a new era for law-abiding gun owners, as we now have a president who respects and supports our right to keep and bear arms,” Chris W. Cox, executive director of the NRA Institute for Legislative Action, said at the time.
....who fucking cares about the number? Just ONE should be goddamned enough. What a bullshit thing to argue about.
Civilians shouldn't have access to guns period.
Protection is the job of the state.
Civilians shouldn't have access to guns period.
Protection is the job of the state.
It's still 1782 here. We need our guns in case the government oversteps. And also if the slaves revolt.
Civilians shouldn't have access to guns period.
Protection is the job of the state.
Sure, but good luck protecting yourself from the state with a gun Ż\_(ツ)_/Ż
Civilians shouldn't have access to guns period.
Protection is the job of the state.
The same state that abuses civilians. Right. Thank God I am American, where the founding father rightfully did not trust the state. Right. The state. The same state lead by Donald Trump. The same state whose congress and senate can’t pass reasonable legislature because of partisanship. The same state that is perfectly fine having its mitts around its constituents’ throat via wage slavery, and student loan debt. The same state that has sponsors a drug war that allows police to sell assets through forfeiture, separates families, kills communities, and imprisons millions of men for profit and servitude. The same state that LIED when invading Iraq. The same state that bailed out criminals after the 2008 financial crisis. The same state that imprisoned natural born citizens in internment camps during WWII for the crime of simply being Japanese. The same state that turns police, tear gas, dogs, and water hoses on peaceful protesters. The same state that concocted a plan to exercise genocide on an entire race.
Oh.
That state.
I will put my full trust in it to protect my life. :american
You’re talking to citizens of a country that won its own revolution. That also happens to have a “wonderful” record of citizen abuses. Skepticism of government is earned. Hell, it’s built into the very DNA of the country. But put full trust in it or you’re an idiot.
I find it disgusting how the media uses these situations to take actual victims of this to propagate an anti-gun narrative when we KNOW that the FBI received a warning about this kid and did nothing with it.
https://amp.businessinsider.com/ap-venezuelas-maduro-seeks-to-expand-armed-civilian-militias-2017-4
Arming loyalists. Hmm. Trusting the state...
:nope
Wanna know why you don’t trust the state? It’s a pendulum. We went from Obama to Trump. Thankfully there are checks and balances. America :salute
There are a lot of scared families in Caracas, and a lot of grieving loved ones. Venezuela boasts many unhappy superlatives: with an annual total of around 20,000 homicides (the government refuses to release accurate statistics) the country competes yearly with half-a-dozen other unfortunate places for the world’s highest murder rate; there is reported to be one firearm in circulation for every two citizens, making Venezuela the most weaponised environment on earth; and every year there are, according to the police, at (the very least) 2,000 kidnaps for ransom nationwide.http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/taking-no-prisoners-in-the-kidnap-capital-of-the-world-on-the-streets-of-caracas-with-an-elite-8872390.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/taking-no-prisoners-in-the-kidnap-capital-of-the-world-on-the-streets-of-caracas-with-an-elite-8872390.html)
Is it a characteristic of the left to sound so weak? Goes hand in hand with the victim complex. “You couldn’t win” “they’d get squashed”. Jeez. It’s like you haven’t paid attention to the the past half century. Never mind that some weapons is definitely better than no weapons.
Wanna know why you don’t trust the state?
‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens (https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1823016659)
here's a shiny Nixon Supreme Court appointee in 1991this adjective choice is making me uncomfortable
Cindi, are you ok? You've been hysterical for days.User was warned for: using GamerGate type terminology regarding feemales
Cindi, are you ok? You've been hysterical for years.
Cindi, are you ok? You've been hysterical for days.
Cindi is acting like she believes someone that's a part time BJJ enthusiast can walk into a dojo or whatever and throw down with a full-time, professionally trained master. GOOD LUCK.
i'd love to own a gun and think they're cool. thank christ i can't though.newsfeed
Cindi is acting like she believes someone that's a part time BJJ enthusiast can walk into a dojo or whatever and throw down with a full-time, professionally trained master. GOOD LUCK.
What do you mean
Apparently the FBI screwed up protocol and missed the reports on the guy
Cindi is acting like she believes someone that's a part time BJJ enthusiast can walk into a dojo or whatever and throw down with a full-time, professionally trained master. GOOD LUCK.
What do you mean
Do you seriously think you (a relative firearm noob) are going to throw down with a master (the US army or even just cops) if it comes down to it? I'm all for you having the right to protect your person from harm but let's get real here.
Cindi is acting like she believes someone that's a part time BJJ enthusiast can walk into a dojo or whatever and throw down with a full-time, professionally trained master. GOOD LUCK.
What do you mean
Do you seriously think you (a relative firearm noob) are going to throw down with a master (the US army or even just cops) if it comes down to it? I'm all for you having the right to protect your person from harm but let's get real here.
1. I shoot at ranges and am a good shot. At my first gun lesson i nearly got a bullseye with a .40 SW. That was just lesson one. A big part of “gun culture” is actually mastering the weapon by shooting on a regular basis. FYI American police have lax range standards and most police do not take their guns to the range often. I guarantee that if you had a police Vs civilian range contest the police would lose.
2. The idea that if the American government waged war against its citizens that a portion of the military would disobey that order and join the rebellion is ludicrous.
3. I am not a beginner.
None of your argument fits reality about the situation. Gun owners are more than hobbyists. You have to clean your gun, know how to shoot well with it, and learn basic safety. When you believe it will save your life, you are not lax with knowing how to use it.
Cindi is acting like she believes someone that's a part time BJJ enthusiast can walk into a dojo or whatever and throw down with a full-time, professionally trained master. GOOD LUCK.
What do you mean
Do you seriously think you (a relative firearm noob) are going to throw down with a master (the US army or even just cops) if it comes down to it? I'm all for you having the right to protect your person from harm but let's get real here.
1. I shoot at ranges and am a good shot. At my first gun lesson i nearly got a bullseye with a .40 SW. That was just lesson one. A big part of “gun culture” is actually mastering the weapon by shooting on a regular basis. FYI American police have lax range standards and most police do not take their guns to the range often. I guarantee that if you had a police Vs civilian range contest the police would lose.
2. The idea that if the American government waged war against its citizens that a portion of the military would disobey that order and join the rebellion is ludicrous.
3. I am not a beginner.
None of your argument fits reality about the situation. Gun owners are more than hobbyists. You have to clean your gun, know how to shoot well with it, and learn basic safety. When you believe it will save your life, you are not lax with knowing how to use it.
Have you had combat training? Lol, gtfo with your nonsense. Jesus, talking to you is the same exercise in futility across literally any topic. All of life is Shenmue with you.
sorry but what... you realize people in the military have things called families and communities and often live outside of military bases themselves... gonna be a difficult drive to work in the midst of all this slaughter just so we can all arm up and mow down our neighbors.
2. The idea that if the American government waged war against its citizens that a portion of the military would disobey that order and join the rebellion is ludicrous.
Apparently the FBI screwed up protocol and missed the reports on the guy.
and the white supremacist militia story was a 4chan hoax
good job america
Sure, but good luck protecting yourself from the state with a gun Ż\_(ツ)_/Ż
This is such a bad argument, like you’ve never heard of any war America has been involved in post WWII compounded with the fact that it makes anyone says it sound like a giant fucking pussy.
Sure, but good luck protecting yourself from the state with a gun Ż\_(ツ)_/Ż
This is such a bad argument, like you’ve never heard of any war America has been involved in post WWII compounded with the fact that it makes anyone says it sound like a giant fucking pussy.
Theories of crime that point to poverty and racism have the advantage of explaining why low-income groups predominate when it comes to violent crime. What they really explain, though, is why more affluent groups refrain from such crime. And the answer is that middle-class people (regardless of race) stand to lose a great deal from such behavior. Wisely, more affluent people go to law and seek other nonviolent methods to resolve interpersonal conflicts. Poor people, and especially young, male poor people, do not. Their perceived stake in the established order is tenuous.
The cultural explanation for violence is superior to explanations that rest of poverty or racism, however, because it can account for the differentials in the violent-crime rates of groups with comparable adversities. My favorite illustration of this is the Haitian situation in 1980s Miami. Here was a group of black people coming to the U.S. illegally in makeshift boats. They had a brutal history of slavery, and were illiterate in English, impoverished, and unwelcome. Yet their violent-crime rates were much lower than those of African Americans living in the same city in the same time period. If cultural differences don’t explain this, then what does?
Just saying there is no rational arguement that can be made to Cindi (or other gun people) to change her mind as the insecurity is coming from somewhere else.
I am perfectly rational.:comeon
I am perfectly rational. I told you why I do not trust the state last page. Whether you disagree or not, my reasoning is definitely rational. The only person you have to reliably defend your own life is yourself.
I am perfectly rational. I told you why I do not trust the state last page. Whether you disagree or not, my reasoning is definitely rational. The only person you have to reliably defend your own life is yourself.
You just endorsed a blog post saying public schools should work with the police in investigating and taking preemptive action towards students.
It's not gun ownership that's irrational, it's you. I don't trust you with a gun. You are an unstable person and you will either hurt yourself or someone else. Do you remember those suicide posts you made back in December? The biggest danger to you right now isn't the state, or imaginary people out to get you, it's you.
I’m not seeing the contradiction.
This is such a bad argument, like you’ve never heard of any war America has been involved in post WWII compounded with the fact that it makes anyone says it sound like a giant fucking pussy.
Wait, are you using Vietnam and Iraq as models for American citizens to protect themselves from the police?
At least I don’t live in some European nation or Canada where they ban any means of self defense.
Also, unstable lol
I’m pretty stable rn.
And me hurting anyone? Wut
It's not gun ownership that's irrational, it's you. I don't trust you with a gun. You are an unstable person and you will either hurt yourself or someone else. Do you remember those suicide posts you made back in December? The biggest danger to you right now isn't the state, or imaginary people out to get you, it's you.
That’s the price of being a cheeseburger and having depression. I must battle suicidal ideation while also valuing personal safety which I refuse to give up. At least I don’t live in some European nation or Canada where they ban any means of self defense.
At least I don’t live in some European nation or Canada where they ban any means of self defense.
And that, coincidentally, have far lower murder rates. Crazy, I know.
That’s the price of being a cheeseburger and having depression. I must battle suicidal ideation while also valuing personal safety which I refuse to give up. At least I don’t live in some European nation or Canada where they ban any means of self defense.
That’s the price of being a cheeseburger and having depression. I must battle suicidal ideation while also valuing personal safety which I refuse to give up. At least I don’t live in some European nation or Canada where they ban any means of self defense.
Think that you're safer living in America than Canada because America lets you walk around with yoursecurity blanketshiny gun, brehs. :neogaf :mindblown
At least I don’t live in some European nation or Canada where they ban any means of self defense.
And that, coincidentally, have far lower murder rates. Crazy, I know.
Women are more likely than men to be killed by their spouse or partner.
This is such a bad argument, like you’ve never heard of any war America has been involved in post WWII compounded with the fact that it makes anyone says it sound like a giant fucking pussy.
Wait, are you using Vietnam and Iraq as models for American citizens to protect themselves from the police?
Would actually like to hear your answer on this.
Related question: do you think private citizens should be able to arm themselves to a degree that it deters the state from interfering with them?
Imagine being so paranoid you want a gun to protect yourself from the one person you share your life with
Like if that is how you feel about life :(
I feel for you :(
When Hitler or Stalin took the guns, they took some hunting rifles and medieval pistols.
what rules is that he lured you out :-*
I didnt bother replying
what rules is that he lured you out :-*
I didnt bother replying
This isn't someone making the Ben Shapiro is stupid and owns one shirt thread about how Charles "I got arrested for burning a cross and wrote a book that cited Mankind Quarterly" Murray isn't racist, and the current tone of this thread is nothing if not inquisitorial.
Is it? Cindi is just getting called out on facts (like gun ownership leading to safety) not on opinions (i should have the right to defend myself) and its being linked to her general behaviour and menta state which she shares here
If anythinh I think everyone here would love to see her in a place where she feels like she doesnt need to have a handgun and have a normal life without drama
Lots of inclusivity here. :dogeAt least I don’t live in some European nation or Canada where they ban any means of self defense.
And that, coincidentally, have far lower murder rates. Crazy, I know.
Said by....a man.
https://globalnews.ca/news/3018215/canadas-family-violence-rates-are-staggering-says-new-report/
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/11/05/national/media-national/dubious-cost-sexual-assault-japan/
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-japan-rape/little-sympathy-for-rape-victims-in-japan-idUST17815620070515
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/sep/05/violent-crimes-against-women-in-england-and-wales-reach-record-high
It’s funny. My main argument for firearms thus far has been self defense and the reason I came to that conclusion was through the very thing that Triumph used as a point of comparison to me: Jiu Jitsu. Training Jiu Jitsu opened my eyes to how truly vulnerable a person is. I am 5’5 and would regularly be put into situations where I had a man twice my height and size laying on top of me incapable of doing anything. I was thrust into simulations and would lose and become humbled three to four times a week. The most eye opening part came when I did my first competition and the feeling of fight or flight and the blur of two people fighting for dominance. Not a real fight, certainly. But real enough. Realizing how weak we really are - even men - I change my mind on self defense. A scuffle is the literal last place you want to be in. Even after becoming trained in my art I still feel that way. But more than that, it made me realize how vulnerable a woman is. Any female grappler needs technique rather than strength and although I was born male, my body is far more female than male due to its size. The only logical conclusion I could come to was self defense for the woman - in the form of a weapon.
In America, I am granted the ability to use a weapon for self defense when it is justifiable in the name of the law. That is empowerment. That is not a self made delusion. It is a not a false sense of security.
The women who are victims in the articles above cannot use weapons for self defense. Not only are guns banned, so are pepper spray as well as knives. In these countries women are victims and lack any kind of autonomy for self defense. This is not speculation but fact. Japan takes the action of rape very lightly and very few women feel it right to come forward. These women lack any kind of self defense beyond running away. To be fair, running away is the best self defense. But not all cases will allow that and certainly relying on it without a backup plan is naive at best. In those cases, a woman has the right to defend her life. Any human does. This is a basic human right. In the talk of weapon banning this point is almost never considered. You have a group of people of people who wank themselves over #metoo but are also willing to take away defense rights of the most vulnerable of society due to emotional appeals. To be granted, mass murders are pretty good reasons to listen and appeal to that place in our hearts. But maybe banning things isn’t always the answer. Every action has a double effect. Although Japan banning swords and knives has lowered that kind of crime, it also takes another method of defense away from women who are also prone to being raped.
Liberals and progressives say that they want to protect people but very often in their policies it actually results in people being further victimized. A good example would be the war on drugs. The drug war was proposed by black democratic leaders to clean up drugs from black neighborhoods and look at the drug war and how it affects black people now. Such is the poison of bans, laws, and emotion appeal. Liberalism and progressivism are failures.
You can not refute this so you attack my character and laugh at me. But that’s okay, because I’m American and can legally defend myself rather place trust in the powers that be.
Lager asked what happened to society in another thread. Maybe because you no longer believe a human has the dignity to defend their own life for a perceived notion of safety?
Holy shit this topic dragged Esch out of the void
I find the idea this place can argue without getting personal to be adorable.
Holy shit this topic dragged Esch out of the void
I just found out a couple weeks ago that this (http://www.thebore.com/forum/index.php?topic=35993.msg1609826#msg1609826) famous newsfeed quote was from Esch. I would have bet everything on this planet that it was Green Shinobi (pbuh).
Cindi has been Cindi so long that her enthusiastic embrace for the dialectic of life is an old meme on this forum. (Only 20XX Bore kids will remember that splash page.) In that time she hasn't gone postal yet there are posts like this (http://www.thebore.com/forum/index.php?topic=43848.msg2381671#msg2381671) trying to insinuate she's primed to go off. That's not just calling someone out, and it's not particularly fact-based discussion either.So you know she's been like this for a long time and then intentionally tell other people not to point it out even though it's normal socialization and even considerate. Isn't that a dangerous form of enabling?
Newer posters don't know any better so I don't begrudge them for introducing this line of discussion (http://www.thebore.com/forum/index.php?topic=43848.msg2381524#msg2381524) but the old guard here doesn't have that same excuse and should not be excused.
Cindi has been Cindi so long that her enthusiastic embrace for the dialectic of life is an old meme on this forum. (Only 20XX Bore kids will remember that splash page.) In that time she hasn't gone postal yet there are posts like this (http://www.thebore.com/forum/index.php?topic=43848.msg2381671#msg2381671) trying to insinuate she's primed to go off. That's not just calling someone out, and it's not particularly fact-based discussion either.So you know she's been like this for a long time and then intentionally tell other people not to point it out even though it's normal socialization and even considerate. Isn't that a dangerous form of enabling?
Newer posters don't know any better so I don't begrudge them for introducing this line of discussion (http://www.thebore.com/forum/index.php?topic=43848.msg2381524#msg2381524) but the old guard here doesn't have that same excuse and should not be excused.
I can say, personally, when the military kicks in my door I'll be prepared to defend myself by thoroughly shitting my pants and crying. Like everyone else in this thread, regardless of whether they know it or not.What an expected college intellectual cuck response.
So, the script that emerged — a ''first draft'' Stallone has written with Art Monterastelli (The Hunted) — finds Rambo living a monastic lifestyle in Bangkok and salvaging old PT boats and tanks for scrap metal. (''It's like he's stripping himself down,'' says the actor, pensively. ''That old piece of military equipment.'') When a group of volunteers bringing supplies into Burma disappears, a relative of one of the missing missionaries begs Rambo to find them. He heads off with a team of young guns, a plot point required by the financiers, who wanted to hedge against Rambo's possible mono-generational appeal.
Enabling? What in the fuck. Nothing I have posted in this thread points me to being mentally ill or that what I have said is, as Stro said, “radical”. Why in the fuck do you People throw these accusations? What is wrong with you?! I told you how I came to the rationale that guns as self defense is reasonable and you INSULT me.
Nope. But that was completely separate from my argument. Essentially, you lot ignored the bulk of my it. Made one liners like,”knives are legal in Canada” (who really cares? Guns, tasers, and pepper spray are. Limiting people’s method of self defense is distinguished mentally-challenged, especially for women, nor does it posit that being a woman doesn’t require some self defense in a first world nation) or attacked my character saying I am prone to radicalization and violence, or low hanging fruit such as,”you were suicidal two months ago!” Phht. So? It was argued (while mockingly I might add) that you don’t need weapons for self defense in first world nations because they had less reason for self defense. I provided a cogent rebuttal that provided evidence against that. Instead, you insult and mock me.
Like I said in my post last page, a lot of policies, liberal or conservative, start out with good intentions. In America things usually start out that way but end up making things worse for people. We have seen this time and time again. From alcohol prohibition, to the drug war, to even the prison complex or spying on citizens for security. Usually it’s caused by people who would take individual liberty from others especially for some American moralized reasoning for the sake of safety. Essentially, in a free country we have to weigh legislation between liberty and security constantly. More often, I’ll side with liberty especially regarding cases that are preventable (Cruz had police come to his home twenty times, and was reported to the FBI three times, and wasn’t arrested showing exactly how and why government fucking sucks but for some reason you want me to...rely on the government for my safety?).
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Addendum:
Liberals: Trump is a fascist!
Also liberals: WHY AREN’T GUNS BANNED YET?
Liberals: Black Lives *do* Matter! You have my support in this fight against police brutality!
Also liberals: Only the police and military should have guns!
Liberals: Being a trans woman of color is one of the least safe demographics in America! Stop killing trans women!
Also liberals: why do YOU need a gun?
And that’s just one issue.
I used to think it was just partisanship. The same partisanship I witnessed when the very people who denounced and protested the Iraq War under Bush stood silent under Obama. No, it’s ideology. All you have taught many of us since the election is liberalism, and by extension leftism, are stupid ideologies not worth considering. I was blind but now I see. I turn in my left card.
And in the midst of all of this is me constantly having to fight lefties and their fucking ideological grandstanding and myopia and not mourn this horrific lost of life.
(https://i.imgur.com/ZRKKmsU.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ZRKKmsU.jpg)
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/videos/basement-dwelling-samurai-breaks-up-fight-on-train/85066697/
(https://i.imgur.com/ZRKKmsU.jpg)
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/videos/basement-dwelling-samurai-breaks-up-fight-on-train/85066697/
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/6070825-181/fifth-person-dies-in-clear
Not two dudes, a dude and a 16 year old girl. It's an Amri0x love story.16 is too old for Amirox iirc
Jesus Christ that "listening session" was horrific. Trump spacing out when most of the people were talking to him, only perking up when someone complimented him, openly crowdsourcing ways to fix the gun issue on camera and being taken by the first suggestion which was....arm fucking teachers. This fucking guy really suggested having undercover janitors with guns and Trump was like "that's a great idea, I think a lot of people will love it" then asked the room and no one liked it.
He then literally used John Cena logic by saying a lot of people like the idea, and a lot of people don't like the idea, but the good thing is there are a lot of people.
Jesus Christ that "listening session" was horrific. Trump spacing out when most of the people were talking to him, only perking up when someone complimented him, openly crowdsourcing ways to fix the gun issue on camera and being taken by the first suggestion which was....arm fucking teachers. This fucking guy really suggested having undercover janitors with guns and Trump was like "that's a great idea, I think a lot of people will love it" then asked the room and no one liked it.
He then literally used John Cena logic by saying a lot of people like the idea, and a lot of people don't like the idea, but the good thing is there are a lot of people.
Well the problem is america is a unique snowflake. The other solutions that work in the rest of the advanced world won't work here because [insert bullshit reasons]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9bMStV00js
No outrage I have seen in my life was as intense as Sandy Hook.
No outrage I have seen in my life was as intense as Sandy Hook.
And nothing happened.
I keep seeing people arguing something is different this time but like...I remember a town hall being held about Sand Hook, too. I remember a pretty big memorial service. Yea there wasn't a "movement" of high school kids yelling but that's about it.
Monday will be interesting. Maybe something passes the senate....but it won't pass the House. No way we raise the ownership requirement to 21 lol. I doubt background checks pass either.
My high school history teacher cheated on his wife and got a student pregnant. And that's just with his penis. Imagine if he had a penis AND a gun.
My high school history teacher cheated on his wife and got a student pregnant. And that's just with his penis. Imagine if he had a penis AND a gun.
not a mass shooting, but what the fuck is this?
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/north-carolina-man-shot-dead-facebook-live-killer-remains-large-n851451
not a mass shooting, but what the fuck is this?
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/north-carolina-man-shot-dead-facebook-live-killer-remains-large-n851451
Just your everyday random violent society.
Well see if all the teachers were armed one of them would have taken him out, more good guns
We gotta arm the kids so they can take out a rogue teacher if they have to.
label it a shooter extinguisher
I suggest mounting autoturrets on street lamps and shit.Webcomics have told me that this is a bad idea. (https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2009-11-09)
It's weird to me that the focus is entirely on preventing kids from getting guns and shooting up schools when mass shootings happen everywhere. Of the top 23 mass shooting events in US history, 17 weren't in a school of any kind. Of those 6 remaining, 3 were on college campuses by people over 21. For the other 3 (Sandy Hook, Columbine, Stoneman Douglas), I'm pretty sure none of the shooters had legally acquired their guns anyway.
So while babysteps are good, this issue sure is a lot bigger than kids getting guns before they're 21. Idk maybe like there's a gun problem or something.
If only there were enough guns on campus to stop the violence!The prevailing argument on a lot of gun forums I frequent seems to be emphasizing a "good guy" with a gun. The cop in Florida? He was just a guy with a gun. Neither bad nor good.
If only there were enough guns on campus to stop the violence!The prevailing argument on a lot of gun forums I frequent seems to be emphasizing a "good guy" with a gun. The cop in Florida? He was just a guy with a gun. Neither bad nor good.
The prevailing argument on a lot of gun forums I frequent seems to be emphasizing a "good guy" with a gun. The cop in Florida? He was just a guy with a gun. Neither bad nor good.
The prevailing argument on a lot of gun forums I frequent seems to be emphasizing a "good guy" with a gun. The cop in Florida? He was just a guy with a gun. Neither bad nor good.
This seems like a real common sentiment: you can tell who the "good guys" and "bad guys" are, so we should arm one group and maybe preemptively disarm the other, and the distinction is so clear that we could easily figure out who's who (if the politicians weren't such pussies).
Which is the same way a lot of people talk about social programs. We need to help ordinary Americans, but not just give money to lazy poor people, and it should be obvious who's deserving and not.
The prevailing argument on a lot of gun forums I frequent seems to be emphasizing a "good guy" with a gun. The cop in Florida? He was just a guy with a gun. Neither bad nor good.
This seems like a real common sentiment: you can tell who the "good guys" and "bad guys" are, so we should arm one group and maybe preemptively disarm the other, and the distinction is so clear that we could easily figure out who's who (if the politicians weren't such pussies).
>>> Bottom line, as it’s been proven, <<<
if we wait for the government or someone else
to do something about this School Shooting problem,
then nothing will get done.
It’s up to us.
---FILM COST TO SCHOOLS
As long as this campaign is a success, we will make “COOL CAT STOPS A SCHOOL SHOOTING – a School Safety film” –
-a completely FREE FILM FOR EVERY PUBLIC AND CHARTER SCHOOL THROUGHOUT AMERICA!!! And we may be able to make this happen for schools worldwide via the internet.
---IS THIS A PRO-GUN OR ANTI-GUN PROJECT
This is not a pro-gun or an anti-gun project, and there is no politics in this film - it’s to show kids how to stay safe in a school shooting situation. I have been training with weapons since I was a child. I used to work in the machinegun business and my other new film that’ll be released in 2018 is “Gun Self-Defense for Ladies”, so I have a true passion and much knowledge in this area.
I look forward to that future where conventional weapons are seen as passe vs laser guns and shit and for someone to make the argument that our forefathers wanted us to be strapped with nuclear fission rifles. :usacry
https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Shooting-Investigation-Underway-at-St-Marys-Co-High-School-477374093.html?_osource=SocialFlowTwt_DCBrand
Here we go again ...
https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Shooting-Investigation-Underway-at-St-Marys-Co-High-School-477374093.html?_osource=SocialFlowTwt_DCBrand
Here we go again ...
Today's incident reminded me of a recent study that the NRA was parading around the conservative sites. Where it showed that mass school shootings are not more prevalent today than in the past. The metric they used was 'a school shooting where 4 or more people are killed', which until recently, was the way the FBI measured/classified these events. Now they just measure them by whether there is an active shooter.
So, that incident today in MD wouldn't even register on that study as an incident. Even though a gun was brought into a school and multiple people were wounded/killed. Similar incidents have already happened 4 other times this year alone. They wouldn't be counted either.
Furthermore, let’s drop the American insulation and see how frequent these events are in other developed countries.
The way we keep gun statistics is all fucked up. We don't even have a national database that records incidents where someone is shot accidently (but not killed). Even though it happens every almost every single day in America.
The only thing that determines if it becomes a statistic is if the aim of the toddler or pre-teen is good/bad. If they killed someone, then we count it.
Instead, we rely on advocacy groups to go through millions of records and attempt to provide the data and some context. Which then easily gets waved away by others as propaganda.
Personally, I don't respond to or like these comparisons. Each country has it's own culture/history/geography/makeup that plays a huge influence on their respective peoples. It just doesn't seem relevant to me about the laws in Denmark or Australia and how that would be play out in America.
I'm just letting you know that those arguments don't persuade me, that is all. Even as someone who desperately wants gun control/reform in this country.
Switzerland had a unique event (demilitarization) in a country that had (famously) a long history of crazy-high suicide rates for decades. Those rates were already heavily trending down a decade prior to the absence of those guns.
Australia of course, had a cultural upheaval, due to the disgust over some gun incidents in it's country that provided the impetus for those buybacks. There would never be a clarifying event in America that would act the same.
How does the American spirit defeat scarcity?
I see that teacher gun training is off to a good start :american:
(https://i.cbc.ca/1.4589744.1521816757!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/original_620/jace-daily-tight-poster.jpg)
Meh he only got shot in the head like seven times, he'll be fiiiine.
Heard another conflicting report. Always wait for official statements.reading about it here, ABC put that out.
My early impression was domestic because it was a women and 1 man and 2 women shot. Then a suicide. That's not a max-carnage approach but personal.The gotta go fast dude said in another interview one of the victims was hit 10 times. There was some high level hatred going on.
https://heavy.com/news/2018/04/nasim-aghdam-youtube-shooting-suspect-channel-instagram-photos/
A vegan bodybuilder.
That's a red flag right there.
:dead :dead :deadhttps://heavy.com/news/2018/04/nasim-aghdam-youtube-shooting-suspect-channel-instagram-photos/
A vegan bodybuilder.
That's a red flag right there.
They’re not sending their best. They’re sending vegans. They’re sending bodybuilders. They’re YouTubers. And some, I assume, are good people.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/noor-salman-pulse-massacre-wrong_us_5ac29ebae4b04646b6454dc2?u4s
Story on the acquittal of the Pulse nightclub shooter's wife. From the evidence it looks like he probably picked Pulse :whew randomly (he googled "downtown Orlando nightclubs" an hour before the shooting, after going to a couple of other possible targets).
Fairly depressing story in several ways.
I guess all Waffle Houses need bullet proof glass and metal detectors now.
Multiple deaths are being reported in Friday morning's shooting at southeastern Texas' Santa Fe High School, two law enforcement sources told CNN, citing preliminary information.
And why did i just watch a video with a big nippled black guy jumping around?
Offering the real things those kids need right now.spoiler (click to show/hide)https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VYOjWnS4cMY[close]
we need prayers damn it! prayers!!!
How can America not be doomed?
:neogafAnd why did i just watch a video with a big nippled black guy jumping around?
Offering the real things those kids need right now.spoiler (click to show/hide)https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VYOjWnS4cMY[close]
:thinking :thinking :thinking
are you really that obtuse
:thinking :thinking :thinking
are you really that obtuse
It initially crossed my mind that his brain just registered a black guy dancing in confederate pants with exaggerated minstrel moves/expressions and it triggered him so he immediately closed the video. Since he responded a minute after I edited the video in.
....But on reflection that seems just as likely.
good thing some people aren’t totally dejected and defeated about this....
https://twitter.com/funder/status/997489206795685888
Offering the real things those kids need right now.spoiler (click to show/hide)https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VYOjWnS4cMY[close]
nah i think basically anyone can call someone showing up to the scene of a school shooting with a pistol an idiot and be accurate
nah i think basically anyone can call someone showing up to the scene of a school shooting with a pistol an idiot and be accurate
The Trump supporter's an idiot no doubt, but someone responding to a school shooting by saying, "we need more prayers" isn't much better. Is he trying to say that God had the ability to prevent this school shooting and the loss of eight innocent lives, but decided against it because the prayer quota wasn't met?
no you imbecile i just don't care. i don't need to gain cultural insights from a rap artist. frankly, i don't need to gain any political or societal insights from an artist. 99% of the time they're dumb emotional twats that don't know anything. fuck, you guys feed too much off pop culture.
:thinking :thinking :thinking
are you really that obtuse
It initially crossed my mind that his brain just registered a black guy dancing in confederate pants with exaggerated minstrel moves/expressions and it triggered him so he immediately closed the video. Since he responded a minute after I edited the video in.
....But on reflection that seems just as likely.
The funny thing is that parts of CG's video could be interpreted as a critique of black communities, so even Ass could find something he agrees with in it. But he's probably too dense/triggered to watch it all the way through.
Same way I feel about someone else I know around hereno you imbecile i just don't care. i don't need to gain cultural insights from a rap artist. frankly, i don't need to gain any political or societal insights from an artist. 99% of the time they're dumb emotional twats that don't know anything. fuck, you guys feed too much off pop culture.
:thinking :thinking :thinking
are you really that obtuse
It initially crossed my mind that his brain just registered a black guy dancing in confederate pants with exaggerated minstrel moves/expressions and it triggered him so he immediately closed the video. Since he responded a minute after I edited the video in.
....But on reflection that seems just as likely.
The funny thing is that parts of CG's video could be interpreted as a critique of black communities, so even Ass could find something he agrees with in it. But he's probably too dense/triggered to watch it all the way through.
yeah who views art for insights on the human condition, lol @ you dummies reading into anything beyond the most surface level hahaPeople that have half a fucking brain. Art is there to entertain, to inspire, not to gain some type of deep meaningful understanding of, well, anything.
Hey man, take it up with the guy who can't help but reeee when he sees a shirtless black manIf you must know it was actually his big nipples that made me feel uneasy. Nothing to do with him being black
yeah who views art for insights on the human condition, lol @ you dummies reading into anything beyond the most surface level hahaPeople that have half a fucking brain. Art is there to entertain, to inspire, not to gain some type of deep meaningful understanding of, well, anything.
That's why as you go up the IQ ladder music becomes more about complex patterns and arrangements and less about some dumbass spitting rhymes at you.Hey man, take it up with the guy who can't help but reeee when he sees a shirtless black manIf you must know it was actually his big nipples that made me feel uneasy. Nothing to do with him being black
I really should change "art" to music. Art can encompass a lot of things.yeah who views art for insights on the human condition, lol @ you dummies reading into anything beyond the most surface level hahaPeople that have half a fucking brain. Art is there to entertain, to inspire, not to gain some type of deep meaningful understanding of, well, anything.
That's why as you go up the IQ ladder music becomes more about complex patterns and arrangements and less about some dumbass spitting rhymes at you.Hey man, take it up with the guy who can't help but reeee when he sees a shirtless black manIf you must know it was actually his big nipples that made me feel uneasy. Nothing to do with him being black
this might be one of the worst takes you've ever had
i dunno, praying obviously isn't gonna do shit but i think bringing a gun to a place where a bunch of kids just got shot is considerably dumber and more insensitive than the defacto american 'thoughts and prayers' response
edit: before I'd seen the news, I saw a Tweet that referenced today's shooting, and I couldn't figure out if they meant there had been a new one, or if this was one of the "smaller" incidents that had just sort of blended in with the rest. Not great!
no you imbecile i just don't care. i don't need to gain cultural insights from a rap artist. frankly, i don't need to gain any political or societal insights from an artist. 99% of the time they're dumb emotional twats that don't know anything. fuck, you guys feed too much off pop culture.
:thinking :thinking :thinking
are you really that obtuse
It initially crossed my mind that his brain just registered a black guy dancing in confederate pants with exaggerated minstrel moves/expressions and it triggered him so he immediately closed the video. Since he responded a minute after I edited the video in.
....But on reflection that seems just as likely.
The funny thing is that parts of CG's video could be interpreted as a critique of black communities, so even Ass could find something he agrees with in it. But he's probably too dense/triggered to watch it all the way through.
no you imbecile i just don't care. i don't need to gain cultural insights from a rap artist. frankly, i don't need to gain any political or societal insights from an artist. 99% of the time they're dumb emotional twats that don't know anything. fuck, you guys feed too much off pop culture.
:thinking :thinking :thinking
are you really that obtuse
It initially crossed my mind that his brain just registered a black guy dancing in confederate pants with exaggerated minstrel moves/expressions and it triggered him so he immediately closed the video. Since he responded a minute after I edited the video in.
....But on reflection that seems just as likely.
The funny thing is that parts of CG's video could be interpreted as a critique of black communities, so even Ass could find something he agrees with in it. But he's probably too dense/triggered to watch it all the way through.
You seem really triggered at the casual inclusion of a music video that simply shared some themes and visual elucidation to what was being demonstrated in the accompanying tweet I posted. lol
No one was demanding you watch it, let alone expect it to transmute a person’s worldview...Though had you not gotten triggered in the first 5 seconds because of black nipples and this reactionary thinking, you might of found something to like with regards to the bold.
do you have no shame?
do you have no shame?of?
Getting rid of all the doors is a fine idea...until the school catches on fire and all the kids burn to death because the one entrance was blocked.
Or the guy shoots up the door and has now eliminated the egress from the place.
Like Sandy Hook.
beak talk>door talk
Everything but firearm access is the problem in these mass deaths involving firearms, right.
That is incredibly depressing on so many levels.
http://indianexpress.com/article/world/pakistani-girl-who-died-in-texas-shooting-wanted-to-experience-american-culture-5185008/(http://www.cornel1801.com/disney/Cinderella-1950/characters/fairy-godmother325.jpg)
Now, as the first bodies of those eight students and two teachers are laid to rest, America returns to the question burned on everyone's mind: why? Angry outsiders demand gun control. Others lay the blame at the feet of the NRA. And while the rest of the country debates what our country could have done differently, Texas's top officials try to return the conversation back to the heart of the problem -- the heart. "We have devalued life in this country," Lt. Governor Dan Patrick said plainly. "We threw God out of school... We have families that are broken apart, no fathers at home. We have incredible heinous violence as a [video] game, two hours a day in front of their eyes. And we stand here and we wonder why this happens to certain students."
In Sunday services across Texas, teary parents seemed to have the same response. At Arcadia First Baptist Church, one grandmother's eyes welled up just thinking about her grandson, who was supposed to be in the art room where the shooting started. "We need God back in our schools," she said. For Santa Fe, where students still pray before football games and some teachers still hold lunchtime Bible studies, "thoughts and prayers" aren't throwaway words when heartbreak strikes. They're a way of life. "This is not," Patrick insisted, "about guns. This is about us, as a culture and a nation. Who are we?"
Who we are is a broken country in dire need of the God we keep pushing away. "The world has never been a nice place," Matt Walsh pointed out the Daily Wire, "but it got quite a bit meaner when we abandoned religion. That is no coincidence." It's human nature to want to blame something, but the problem has never been guns. Are there policies we could strengthen? Absolutely. But mankind has had instruments of destruction dating back to Cain and Abel. The real crisis is the moral vacuum left behind when society kicked religion -- and with it, morality -- out of the public space. Violence, relativism, promiscuity, and suicide didn't get their start when God was expelled from school. But they've certainly been given a culture in which to thrive now that we've removed the Judeo-Christian foundation that anchored the country. Walsh warned:Quote"The nightmare we have lived since the turn of the previous century has been the direct result of the world's rejection of God. We fled from His embrace and what we found out here in the wilderness, in our 'freedom,' is evil and despair on an unimaginable scale. We have become an empty country, an empty generation, an empty world. 'They withdrew from me, went after emptiness, and became empty themselves,' God says through the Prophet Jeremiah. He speaks as much to us as He spoke to the people of Jeremiah's time."
Of course, some liberals don't want to have a discussion about the underlying problem, because it would mean acknowledging the fallen nature of man. That, not stricter gun laws, is what's keeping us from finding real solutions as a nation. We can talk about limiting access to guns, but if we're truly concerned about violence, let's also talk about expanding access to God. Until we're willing to address both -- the instrument and the motivation – nothing will change. A spiritually sick society that embraces violence instead of values needs God.
Maybe a community as deeply sincere about their faith as Santa Fe can help the nation understand that. Looking across the rows of empty school chairs, they know better than anyone -- Guns don't steer men wrong, hearts do.
https://www.frc.org/updatearticle/20180521/santa-feQuoteNow, as the first bodies of those eight students and two teachers are laid to rest, America returns to the question burned on everyone's mind: why? Angry outsiders demand gun control. Others lay the blame at the feet of the NRA. And while the rest of the country debates what our country could have done differently, Texas's top officials try to return the conversation back to the heart of the problem -- the heart. "We have devalued life in this country," Lt. Governor Dan Patrick said plainly. "We threw God out of school... We have families that are broken apart, no fathers at home. We have incredible heinous violence as a [video] game, two hours a day in front of their eyes. And we stand here and we wonder why this happens to certain students."
In Sunday services across Texas, teary parents seemed to have the same response. At Arcadia First Baptist Church, one grandmother's eyes welled up just thinking about her grandson, who was supposed to be in the art room where the shooting started. "We need God back in our schools," she said. For Santa Fe, where students still pray before football games and some teachers still hold lunchtime Bible studies, "thoughts and prayers" aren't throwaway words when heartbreak strikes. They're a way of life. "This is not," Patrick insisted, "about guns. This is about us, as a culture and a nation. Who are we?"
Who we are is a broken country in dire need of the God we keep pushing away. "The world has never been a nice place," Matt Walsh pointed out the Daily Wire, "but it got quite a bit meaner when we abandoned religion. That is no coincidence." It's human nature to want to blame something, but the problem has never been guns. Are there policies we could strengthen? Absolutely. But mankind has had instruments of destruction dating back to Cain and Abel. The real crisis is the moral vacuum left behind when society kicked religion -- and with it, morality -- out of the public space. Violence, relativism, promiscuity, and suicide didn't get their start when God was expelled from school. But they've certainly been given a culture in which to thrive now that we've removed the Judeo-Christian foundation that anchored the country. Walsh warned:Quote"The nightmare we have lived since the turn of the previous century has been the direct result of the world's rejection of God. We fled from His embrace and what we found out here in the wilderness, in our 'freedom,' is evil and despair on an unimaginable scale. We have become an empty country, an empty generation, an empty world. 'They withdrew from me, went after emptiness, and became empty themselves,' God says through the Prophet Jeremiah. He speaks as much to us as He spoke to the people of Jeremiah's time."
Of course, some liberals don't want to have a discussion about the underlying problem, because it would mean acknowledging the fallen nature of man. That, not stricter gun laws, is what's keeping us from finding real solutions as a nation. We can talk about limiting access to guns, but if we're truly concerned about violence, let's also talk about expanding access to God. Until we're willing to address both -- the instrument and the motivation – nothing will change. A spiritually sick society that embraces violence instead of values needs God.
Maybe a community as deeply sincere about their faith as Santa Fe can help the nation understand that. Looking across the rows of empty school chairs, they know better than anyone -- Guns don't steer men wrong, hearts do.
Complains about the lack of god in people.
Supports the deportation of thousands of families.
There's an old EconTalk podcast (I listen to EconTalk, yes) about why nations fail and the argument presented in the episode is that leaders know what good policies are but they choose not to implement them for other reasons. Without offering an opinion on that thesis, it's hard not to see merit in it when you read "Of course, some liberals don't want to have a discussion about the underlying problem, because it would mean acknowledging the fallen nature of man. That, not stricter gun laws, is what's keeping us from finding real solutions as a nation."Tongue in cheek?
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/bs-md-gazette-shooting-20180628-story.html
Newspaper office. Shooting up a newspaper office.
His twitter? https://twitter.com/erichartleyfrnd?lang=en
Apparently it stems from this article: http://www.capitalgazette.com/news/ph-ac-cn-jarrod-ramos-ruling-0923-20150922-story.html ???
Thoughts and praye- oh. Fake news peddlers, you say? Carry on then.
Apparently it stems from this article: http://www.capitalgazette.com/news/ph-ac-cn-jarrod-ramos-ruling-0923-20150922-story.html ???we really need to teach defamation and libel laws in school, every four years or so
His feud with The Capital, the chain’s daily newspaper, apparently began with a column in 2011 that detailed his alleged harassment of a high school classmate.
After Mr. Ramos reconnected with the classmate in 2009, his emails to her soon turned venomous.
“He seems to think there’s some sort of relationship here that does not exist,” the woman told a judge, according to court documents in a harassment case she brought against Mr. Ramos. “I tried to back away from it, and he just started getting angry and vulgar to the point I had to tell him to stop.”
After she told him not to contact her again, Mr. Ramos wrote in a 2010 email that the woman should “go hang yourself.”
Weeks later, the woman was put on probation at the bank where she worked. A supervisor told her it was because Mr. Ramos had sent an email — and had also called the bank — telling managers that the bank should fire her.
A judge gave Mr. Ramos a 90-day sentence, but suspended the jail time. Instead, Mr. Ramos was granted probation before judgment. He was ordered not to contact the woman and to continue getting therapy.
Mr. Ramos filed a lawsuit against the owners of The Capital in 2012, claiming that it had defamed him in reporting that Mr. Ramos had pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor criminal harassment charge. Months later, he filed a fuller complaint alleging invasion of privacy, but the lawsuit was dismissed by a judge the next year because Mr. Ramos was unable to describe how he had been harmed by the newspaper article.
Mr. Ramos, who represented himself in the case, appealed the decision. But in 2015 an appellate court affirmed the lower court’s dismissal of the lawsuit, stating that Mr. Ramos showed little knowledge of defamation law and seemed not to “have learned his lesson.”
Ramos’s harassment of his online victim apparently continued. Maryland court records show that in October 2014, a restraining order was entered against him ordering him not to have contact with the woman. Ramos pursued appeals of that order until 2016 but did not prevail.
He carried no identification and had damaged his finger tips in an apparent effort to thwart identification by law enforcement, sources said.
So it wasn't because of Maxine Waters? hannity should be ashamed. I expect a walk back of his comments first thing this morning.no no no see some lieberals somewhere once blamed Sarah Palin so
Abusive/threatening behavior towards women seems to be more of a through line for these incidents than any political or religious ideology.
Jesus. You can see the laser on the black guy's chest right before he got shot. :-\yup, he's most likely gone. you hear one guy say "what did he shoot me with" and then bang bang bang.
Guns with laser sights at a video game competition. America is wild. Idk how you can think this is even marginally okay once in awhile.It is wild but so is being stabbed all the time in London. :doge
not even going to watch it
not even going to watch it
Thoughts, prayers, video games are to blame, nothing can be done.Nah, low body count. CNN is barely covering it. Don't expect to see the talking points come out this time.
See y'all at the next one.
What kind of gun was used? That will determine how long it’s in the media so they can use their narrative.From the video it sounded like a handgun not an automatic weapon.
I would generally agree but it's almost election season and the direct involvement with a video game event will give those who are either genuinely stupid enough to believe that particular myth or those that want to cynically advance it enough, ahem, ammunition that I expect this to hang around in the news cycle for a couple days.The genre might actually soften the reaction somewhat.
What kind of gun was used? That will determine how long it’s in the media so they can use their narrative.From the video it sounded like a handgun not an automatic weapon.
If you’re going to do this the best place is a smash tournament.
What kind of gun was used? That will determine how long it’s in the media so they can use their narrative.From the video it sounded like a handgun not an automatic weapon.
Then it will disappear from the news in maybe two days. Maybe even one.
What kind of gun was used? That will determine how long it’s in the media so they can use their narrative.From the video it sounded like a handgun not an automatic weapon.
Then it will disappear from the news in maybe two days. Maybe even one.
It will either way.
What kind of gun was used? That will determine how long it’s in the media so they can use their narrative.From the video it sounded like a handgun not an automatic weapon.
Then it will disappear from the news in maybe two days. Maybe even one.
It will either way.
Nah, the news media really likes AR-15 stories. If it’s a shooting with a shotgun or a handgun or even revolver they forget about it reallll quick. If a civilian stopped the shooting then they likely won’t report it.
Don’t really have an agenda. Just stating facts. Going by your logic, your post is for your agenda as well. Just laziness via some petty comeback.
I wonder what republicans would choose if they had to between free (mental) healthcare oooor gun control
The shooter looks like a mix of demi and that Google manifesto writer that Etiolate liked a lot.kid looks autisty
That video is all kinds of fucked up. The US of A needs a reboot.
They said the shooter's name on the radio this morning. Possible motive is that "he was upset that he lost a game." Really? He brought a gun with laser sight to an event in case he lost? But I guess I could see that if he was just fucked up in the head. :-\I remember a story from years back where some Korean(i think) kid beat some other kid at dota or cs:go and the other kid tracked him down to the internet cafe he was playing at and beat him up or something
They also made sure, before going into detail on this shooting, to mention that two more (non-mass) shootings happened in the area last night.
:goty2
Surprisingly npr working against the agenda and media disinformation.
https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2018/08/27/640323347/the-school-shootings-that-werent
Vice realizing that gun control laws are ineffective.More like "Hrm....everyone is tired of our gun control stuff. It's not getting enough clicks...Hey! I know!"
http://archive.is/XVSij
http://www.latimes.com/politics/essential/la-pol-ca-essential-politics-may-2018-california-lawmakers-approve-gun-seizure-1535494573-htmlstory.html
they're not coming for your guns tho
http://www.latimes.com/politics/essential/la-pol-ca-essential-politics-may-2018-california-lawmakers-approve-gun-seizure-1535494573-htmlstory.html
they're not coming for your guns tho
seems like they're not, as long as you aren't a total fucking headcase
I don't care if they took Cindi's gun away.
:yeshrug
Reminder: Cindi said the Parkland shooting was the fault of police for not preemptively seizing the shooter's guns.
More anti-gun agenda propagated by Facebook and social media as it flags NPR’s report as fake news.
(https://i.imgur.com/2J5Vqmr_d.jpg)
Funny the esports exec blames gun laws when the gun was bought legally - despite his history with mental health - in one of the most strict states in the land.
You know this means Maryland doesn't have strict gun control laws at all
Funny the esports exec blames gun laws when the gun was bought legally - despite his history with mental health - in one of the most strict states in the land.
https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/esports-execs-blame-games-blame-us-gun-laws-57468170
Esports exec says to blame the guns, not the games. It’s funny how someone can go and turn around and say,”games don’t lead to killing people” but then point to guns, also an inanimate object. Society just wants to blame _____ thing. Democrats wants to censor and ban guns. Republicans want to ban video games. Each solution is to ban, ban, ban on both ends. How’s that working out? In the land of the free too. Maybe people will eventually realize bans do jack shit but I doubt it. Banning alcohol did jack shit. Booze industry boomed and now we have the gin and tonic and the Manhatttan to delightfully thank for it. Drug war banned drugs but niccas smoke and do drugs like it ain’t no thing and drugs actually grew in popularity - especially weed, during this ban. But let’s keep talking about bans.
I will only ever see the word ban as an attempt to control. If someone wants to ban something your eye brow should be raised.
Funny the esports exec blames gun laws when the gun was bought legally - despite his history with mental health - in one of the most strict states in the land.
:american Maryland
Proving gun control works one day at a time :American
Fuck it, I’m going to the range tonight.
Yeah, the problem in Latin America is not enough guns.Well when every single asshole wanting to rob you has a gun and knows you are unarmed you don't find that to be a problem? Please don't compare your privileged reality in the United States with what goes on elsewhere without ever actually living it. You cunt.
how are these guys able to acquire guns but you're not?There's no way i know how to begin this argument. It's a mess in this part of the world and I really do not know how they're going to fix it. The only thing i know is that i'd feel safer if i could carry around here.
maybe you could get the audio version of a gun?
Yeah, the problem in Latin America is not enough guns.Well when every single asshole wanting to rob you has a gun and knows you are unarmed you don't find that to be a problem? Please don't compare your privileged reality in the United States with what goes on elsewhere without ever actually living it. You cunt.
I've both volunteered at and worked next to Favelas multiple times you stupid moron.bahahaYeah, the problem in Latin America is not enough guns.Well when every single asshole wanting to rob you has a gun and knows you are unarmed you don't find that to be a problem? Please don't compare your privileged reality in the United States with what goes on elsewhere without ever actually living it. You cunt.
Go to a favela in Brazil, better yet, an area of Mexico with warring cartels, corrupt cops, and human traffickers.
When you come back, please do tell about your travels and how the real problem is the fact that not enough people have guns.
Fucking moron. :lol
Getting more zen by the minute.Fuck zen. Some of you are too stupid to deserve my zen.
I've both volunteered at and worked next to Favelas multiple times you stupid moron.
Cindi and Assi should team up and take on the cartels and favela slum lords.
Damn, your dinky ass pistol is going to make you feel safe when there’s people stationed in rooftop shacks with fully-automatic assault rifles knowing full well that they hold power over the authorities? :lolWho the fuck said people were going into favelas with pistols?? I'm talking about being robbed taking a walk in your neighborhood, at the beach, in traffic, walking into your house.
Cindi and Assi should team up and take on the cartels and favela slum lords.
Change of plans. It's still a buddy cop show, but now they're also lovers.
Stop bragging bro
As harsh as this sounds — your dead kids don’t trump my Constitutional rights,
cool, rational and empathetic reaction dawg
We had guns in Warsaw, didn't seem to matter.
There's valid reasons why people want to protect and defend themselves and their loved ones with a sidearm at home.
However, having shitlords roam the streets with military grade hardware is just insanity.
I don't consider a 6 shooter to be on the same level as an AR-15.There's valid reasons why people want to protect and defend themselves and their loved ones with a sidearm at home.
However, having shitlords roam the streets with military grade hardware is just insanity.
Almost all weapons are military grade. You’re just using buzz words.
Jewish people have my highest respect.
As far as I am concerned, Jewish people and black people are allies more connected than any other group.
I try as much as I can to curb any anti semitism I see within the black community.what even is this post
I've been thinking about my grandmother lately.
She's 89. She was born in Ohio but her father migrated from Poland so she lost cousins, great aunts, etc. to the Holocaust. When call or visit her I deliberately avoid talking about shit like this. She's still fairly sharp and follows the news, but I don't know how aware she is of the alt-right given how peculiarly online that is.
I think about what it would be like to live a life like hers, live through all that apparent progress (she stood outside her elementary school classroom while they prayed whereas I never felt anything other than accepted growing up), and then at the end feel like it might all be slipping away.
If only Cindi was there with her guns to stop him
I guess some dude shot up a bar and killed a dozen people. Man, Wednesdays, amirite guys?Apparently there were pople there who survived the Vegas shooting.
I guess some dude shot up a bar and killed a dozen people. Man, Wednesdays, amirite guys?Apparently there were pople there who survived the Vegas shooting.
If only Cindi was there with her guns to stop him
Shut the fuck up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPybTaqxm9I&feature=youtu.be&t=137
She was apparently a doctor too. Damn.
https://twitter.com/TSM_OmEgA/status/1106420348407427072?s=20Dude is not 14.
:-\
https://twitter.com/TSM_OmEgA/status/1106420348407427072?s=20Dude is not 14.
:-\
Sorry, I looked at the profile and saw a photo of a dude with a beard. I assumed that was him, but maybe not.https://twitter.com/TSM_OmEgA/status/1106420348407427072?s=20Dude is not 14.
:-\
The actual profile looks to be legit things a 14 year old would post and isn’t new or anything.
I think what everyone here is capable of doing, though, is if you know a young guy who's extremely alienated from society, reach out to him, make him feel like he's a part of something, so that he doesn't have to go online and find something crazy to be a part of instead.That last part's important because he'll just turn his account over to Glen.
Why did I watch the New Zealand footage? It made me so fucking emotional. I’ve seen lots of videos of people dying but something about so many innocent people at once is so savage to me. Going to give me so many nightmares :/Younger me used to watch this stuff out of curiosity but some time ago I concluded it just isn’t good for the soul.
Fuck gun supporters.
Absolutely terrible, I haven’t seen the video of him shooting and I hopefully never will, but the way he nonchalantly takes out the gun out of his trunk and walks up to the mosque is just sickening.
What a sick fuck,
And for sure PewDiePie will have problems now. The attacker explicitly called his channel and it will be investigated by the officials. If they find *anything* there that can be linked to hate crime - it's over. Methinks he would be wiser to not wait for investigations but just close the channel himself. Sponsors etc. will avoid him like plague now.
Blaming pewdiepie seems to be what the shooter wanted.
Yeah, these people chose to press every rustle button available to them.Blaming pewdiepie seems to be what the shooter wanted.
Also, apparently, a race war triggered by American gun nuts.
Why cant these fucks just sub to an mmo and veg away.
Dude really used memes while justifying killing people??
I think it's interesting to see how people are reacting more emotionally to this because video exists. It's kind of crazy how much more impact violence has on us when we can see it and not just read about it in a blurb a few hours later.
what the fuck is wrong with you, watching it with a co-worker?
what the fuck is wrong with you, watching it with a co-worker?He was looking for news on his phone during lunch and said, wow this shit is fucked. So he showed me his screen.
I am fascinated by human behavior so I did watch but I do regret it, and I don't usually say that.I completely agree that there's a lot of power in seeing the results of something versus thinking about it abstractly. This is off-topic for this thread but this reminds me that it's easy to justify airstrikes etc. in Syria or Yemen against terrorism, and then you see those pictures of the entire city's buildings completely blown the fuck out, for miles and miles, and it would make anyone think twice about it.
I feel like watching those sorts of things does not desensitize me to violence, on the contrary it feeds my general anti-war stance as actually seeing visuals of that kind of shit makes it more real.
Right now glad I follow a small amount of people on Twitter. Passing around the video and the manifesto is just going to cause more pain.
I follow 5000 people on Twitter and still haven't encountered any manifesto or video excerpts?I've read your retweets and I'm not at all surprised by this
I had to get my car serviced today so I was sitting in the waiting room and the tv was on and some newscasters were laughing about a turkey on a road. And then the weather person was all smiling and joking about the weather. I know it's there job, but I'm just like how can anyone be smiling and laughing less than 12 hours from this. I just can't deal with anything or anyone today. I'm just so angry :(
(https://i.imgur.com/r2reERl.jpg)
Fuck this dude. I can’t fucking stand these meme nazis.
Amazing to me people would watch this shit. You guys who watch violence like that Jihadi John guy you mention are weird to me.
Amazing to me people would watch this shit. You guys who watch violence like that Jihadi John guy you mention are weird to me.
I’m not usually sensitive to these kinds of videos but there was just something different about it.
It's not that if you watch this ogrish shit that you're a bad person.
It's that if you watch it you are by definition an unhealthy person.
(https://i.imgur.com/r2reERl.jpg)
Fuck this dude. I can’t fucking stand these meme nazis.
It shouldn't have fucking had a watch ppl die subbreddit in the first place.
r/gore banned
r/wpdtalk banned
r/Pewdiepie_Submissions banned
r/PewDiePieSubmissions private
r/offensivememes quarantined
r/edgymemes quarantined
r/imgoingtohellforthis private, top mod suspended.
r/WPD banned
r/SeePeopleKilled banned
Reddit's major problem is being reactionary only when major news outlets happen to advertise those subreddits. imgoingtohellforthis was a "popular"/meme'd (/r/ reply) subreddit for over like 7-8 years. How couldn't reddit have known about it?Yup. Ad dollars at risk? Intervention. Been that way since r/jailbait was banned. Or even earlier.
Amazing to me people would watch this shit. You guys who watch violence like that Jihadi John guy you mention are weird to me.
I’m not usually sensitive to these kinds of videos but there was just something different about it.
Let me get this right: you're not usually sensitive of videos of people actually being murdered?
(https://i.imgur.com/WjfuCyf.gif)
Reddit's major problem is being reactionary only when major news outlets happen to advertise those subreddits. imgoingtohellforthis was a "popular"/meme'd (/r/ reply) subreddit for over like 7-8 years. How couldn't reddit have known about it?Yup. Ad dollars at risk? Intervention. Been that way since r/jailbait was banned. Or even earlier.
Amazing to me people would watch this shit. You guys who watch violence like that Jihadi John guy you mention are weird to me.
I’m not usually sensitive to these kinds of videos but there was just something different about it.
Let me get this right: you're not usually sensitive of videos of people actually being murdered?
(https://i.imgur.com/WjfuCyf.gif)
No. I mean I can go on /r/watchpeopledie and feel fine. Not sure if that makes me a psychopath or whatever lol.
Amazing to me people would watch this shit. You guys who watch violence like that Jihadi John guy you mention are weird to me.
I’m not usually sensitive to these kinds of videos but there was just something different about it.
Let me get this right: you're not usually sensitive of videos of people actually being murdered?
(https://i.imgur.com/WjfuCyf.gif)
No. I mean I can go on /r/watchpeopledie and feel fine. Not sure if that makes me a psychopath or whatever lol.
That's exactly my point though. You can watch people die and feel nothing. It's weird to me.
That's exactly my point though. You can watch people die and feel nothing. It's weird to me.I don't think it's a good thing to make a habit of, but it's also quite normal to feel nothing about. I used to be the guy that clicks every link, so I know from personal experience. You can too, probably, depending on a variety of factors, some damning to our sensibilities (i.e. do those dying look like us?). You might even be satisfied with the outcome and quitly think "good" if it's an agressor or whatever.
That's exactly my point though. You can watch people die and feel nothing. It's weird to me.I don't think it's a good thing to make a habit of, but it's also quite normal to feel nothing about. I used to be the guy that clicks every link, so I know from personal experience. You can too, probably, depending on a variety of factors, some damning to our sensibilities (i.e. do those dying look like us?). You might even be satisfied with the outcome and quitly think "good" if it's an agressor or whatever.
Hell, public executions are still around and nobody satisfied by the spectacle thinks of themselves as a psycho. The vast majority of them are correct.
See it this way. Most of our news are essentially rubbernecking. Crime, accidents, disasters and all manner of ominous hidden dangers that we have an instinctive need to know about. It helps us calibrate to our environment. Stare at the result and learn what not to do, where not to go, etc. What makes you a psycho is deriving sadistic pleasure from it.
Abdul Aziz, 48, was in the Linwood mosque praying with his four sons when he heard gunshots. He immediately knew something was wrong.
Rather than running from the sound, he ran toward it and grabbed the first thing he could find — a credit card machine — and flung it at the attacker. He tried to distract the attacker in a move that many fellow worshippers have described as heroic, weaving through cars in the parking lot, attempting to draw the gunman’s attention away from the mosque.
Latef Alabi, the acting imam of Linwood, told the Associated Press he believed the death toll would have been far higher at the mosque without Mr. Aziz’s actions.
Mr. Aziz said he saw the attacker drop one of his guns and managed to grab it but when he pulled the trigger, the gun was empty. When the gunman went to his car, presumably to grab more ammunition, Mr. Aziz said he threw the gun at the assailant’s windshield, shattering the glass. The assailant sped away.
Mr. Aziz remained humble, saying in an interview with The New York Times that anyone in his position would have done the same. “I was prepared to give my life to save another life,” he said.
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Originally from Kabul, Afghanistan, Mr. Aziz lived in Australia for 27 years after having fled the violence of his home country. He moved to New Zealand a few years ago, describing it as a beautiful country.
::)
It's not that if you watch this ogrish shit that you're a bad person.
It's that if you watch it you are by definition an unhealthy person.
Just because someone finds themselves compulsively drawn to violence doesn't mean they're "unhealthy". Maybe try to have a little empathy jeez
:zzz
It's not that if you watch this ogrish shit that you're a bad person.
It's that if you watch it you are by definition an unhealthy person.
::)
It's not that if you watch this ogrish shit that you're a bad person.
It's that if you watch it you are by definition an unhealthy person.
Just because someone finds themselves compulsively drawn to violence doesn't mean they're "unhealthy". Maybe try to have a little empathy jeez
It's not that if you watch this ogrish shit that you're a bad person.
It's that if you watch it you are by definition an unhealthy person.::)It's not that if you watch this ogrish shit that you're a bad person.
It's that if you watch it you are by definition an unhealthy person.
Just because someone finds themselves compulsively drawn to violence doesn't mean they're "unhealthy". Maybe try to have a little empathy jeez
NARRATOR: Filler, in fact, is not a healthy person.
Transhuman, reflect on your own choice of words. Maybe it's a lack of empathy - itself unhealthy - that drives those who are "compulsively drawn to violence."
filler's pretty normal when the veil drops, this other stuff is mostly escapism for him. well that's my take.
when you drop the veil :nopefiller's pretty normal when the veil drops, this other stuff is mostly escapism for him. well that's my take.
When I drop the veil it just gets worse : (
Man I was in Utrecht 6 years ago
I watched an Utrecht FC match on TV 12 years ago
What I don’t understand are people who would go to those violence subreddits or liveleak and willingly look for violent videos of people being murdered.
I won’t begrudge others watching if they were Muslim.
One time I watched Brazilians kill a trans woman. They savagely beat her bloody and then dumped her into wheelbarrow to be carried off into an alley where she was murdered. They don’t show the murder but they do show them running full blast while she’s in the wheelbarrow pleading for her life. I warched that to understand the pain people around the world who are lgbt suffer.
So I understand wanting to see the harsh reality of a situation if you’re close to it. It’s also why I watched the Tamir Rice video.
What I don’t understand are people who would go to those violence subreddits or liveleak and willingly look for violent videos of people being murdered. You aren’t close to the situation, it’s not relevant to you.
People couldn't possibly think any less of you anyways. Don't worry.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/gun-owners-in-new-zealand-brace-for-big-changes-to-their-right-to-carry/2019/03/18/6460f8e0-48ec-11e9-8cfc-2c5d0999c21e_story.html?utm_term=.50c4915a5c29
see, this isn't so hard
Did this jackass get guns legally?
I'm okay with calling honor killing terrorism as it terrorizes an entire gender caught in a sharia community.That's pretty much our PM's take on it as well because 3 people are dead and 3 more are in critical condition.
Filler is a chud [cannibalistic humanoid underground dweller] who desperately wants to be relevant, but everybody knows he's unable to actually drive or even influence the conversation [unlike his idols etiolate and assimilate].I only want to be filler :doge
He's going to meme the court
Alex Jones isnt a Sandy Hook denier (according to him). He talked about it at length on the JRE. His claim is media organizations keep tying his name to Sandy Hook to get clicks when he wants nothing to do with it.
Alex Jones isnt a Sandy Hook denier (according to him). He talked about it at length on the JRE. His claim is media organizations keep tying his name to Sandy Hook to get clicks when he wants nothing to do with it.
ok but https://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2016/sep/01/hillary-clinton/hillary-clinton-correct-austins-alex-jones-said-no/He recanted all the stuff he said afterwards and apologized apparently, he deserves all the criticism in the world and im not defending what he said, just mentioning he has a years old updated take.
Not trying to convince anyone.Alex Jones isnt a Sandy Hook denier (according to him). He talked about it at length on the JRE. His claim is media organizations keep tying his name to Sandy Hook to get clicks when he wants nothing to do with it.
well I'm convinced
Why do you think I believe anything he says lmao, I listen to him cause he's a moron I can laugh at when I'm bored. I'll lay it out clearer, Alex Jones did try his usual bullshit with Sandy Hook, caught a bunch of shit and came off that galaxy brained dumbassery after he realized he wouldn't be able to slide his way out of this one. He's since come out and apologized and emphatically stated he doesn't believe any of these Sandy Hook conspiracies, his issue is that the media still keeps throwing his name in when Sandy Hook is mentioned and as much of a galaxy brain as he is, I agree it's disgusting that they keep doing this because they know his name added get's more clicks.Alex Jones isnt a Sandy Hook denier (according to him). He talked about it at length on the JRE. His claim is media organizations keep tying his name to Sandy Hook to get clicks when he wants nothing to do with it.
Why the fuck would you take Alex Jones at his word?
https://www.thisamericanlife.org/670/beware-the-jabberwock
At 3:33 "Sandy Hook is a synthetic, completely fake, with actors, in my view, manufactured. I couldn't believe it at first. I knew they had actors there, clearly. But I thought they killed some real kids. And it just shows how bold they are, that they clearly used actors."
He's since come out and apologized and emphatically stated he doesn't believe any of these Sandy Hook conspiracies
Why do you have to be this way, you can clearly read what I wrote :doge
Did you read 'he deserves all the criticism in the world and im not defending what he said'Why do you have to be this way, you can clearly read what I wrote :doge
yes dude look at the part where you wrote "I agree"
yeah i dont believe he stopped the Sandy Hook stuff cause of morals or whatever, I think he just stopped cause he couldnt take the heat.He's since come out and apologized and emphatically stated he doesn't believe any of these Sandy Hook conspiracies
also this seems like a wildly generous description of his behavior
iirc when he first pulled back on it (under threat of lawsuit or after a suit had been filed) he said the parents were being manipulated and invited them on his fucking show
all due respect but you can't be this fucking dumbYou're a galaxy brain without any actual arguments and i'm going to stop wasting my time reading your posts, pm me if you want to continue this conversation like an adult.
I'd like to see Alex Jones decapitated over this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3QOXRlbL50wow, didn't even realize he was 34 already because it had been seventeen years
CNN: Alex Jones says 'form of psychosis' made him believe events like Sandy Hook massacre were staged
This week, Jones acknowledged the shooting was real...
...during a sworn deposition he made as part of a defamation case brought against him by Sandy Hook victims' families.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/01/us/virginia-beach-shooting-saturday/index.html
Thoughts, prayers, and a hearty fuck you and die in a hail of bullets to anyone suggesting gun control
Holy shit, my mother is in the Paso (vacations and shopping). I just called her and she said they were close to the Walmart where the shooting happened (but they decided not to enter). Fuckfuckfuck
Holy shit, my mother is in the Paso (vacations and shopping). I just called her and she said they were close to the Walmart where the shooting happened (but they decided not to enter). Fuckfuckfuck
You got her on the phone, they're aware of the situation. It should be fine.
It will be a white male 18-24 with some signs of mental illness.and not a terrorist
- The corporations allow for uncontrolled migration which means the hispanic voters will replace the boomer voters :derphttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9r_nMzdTu4
If anyone wants a link to this shit shoot me a PM.
:what are you really PMing manifestos
I can’t believe The Lorax was cited in a mass shooter’s manifesto. Zoomers might be the worst generation.There's also the part he mentions COD and how it is better to target low security areas or 'low hanging fruit'.
It's strangely close to the platform of Andrew Yang, with a slice of InfoWars I suppose?
https://twitter.com/RepKatiePorter/status/1157782369409126401
As for her common it’s that common to be inns shooting in America, is that really the case? Isn’t the reason we are always so shocked these things keep happening because they’re actually rare? I’m definitely not scared to go outside. This isn’t 1990’s Colombia.five minutes later
Another white supremacist goes after minorities in a public place.:doge
Time to finally get that carry license.
As for her common it’s that common to be inns shooting in America, is that really the case? Isn’t the reason we are always so shocked these things keep happening because they’re actually rare? I’m definitely not scared to go outside. This isn’t 1990’s Colombia.five minutes laterAnother white supremacist goes after minorities in a public place.:doge
Time to finally get that carry license.
https://twitter.com/outsider609
the shooter's twitter acct
https://twitter.com/outsider609
the shooter's twitter acct
It was suspended for violating TOS
I wanna read where it says perpetrating a mass shooting is against the Terms & Conditions
I'm with your statistical unlikelihood side on this one.
Being sincere, I kind of want to learn how to use a gun after this even if, rationally, doesn’t help at all and didn’t even happen on my own nation.
Also, CNN just name dropped 8chan.
Being sincere, I kind of want to learn how to use a gun after this even if, rationally, doesn’t help at all and didn’t even happen on my own nation.
Also, CNN just name dropped 8chan.
Statistically you're far more likely to kill yourself with it while sad than shooting a guy who was about to kill you
Guns sure are cool though
https://twitter.com/getfiscal/status/1157829884678410241(https://media.giphy.com/media/3owzVQ23NzdKvVALUA/giphy.gif)
Murica, get your shit together.
Nine people are dead after shooting incident in Dayton, Ohio, according to police. Dayton Police say the suspect in the incident also is dead. Sixteen additional people were injured in the incident.
QuoteNine people are dead after shooting incident in Dayton, Ohio, according to police. Dayton Police say the suspect in the incident also is dead. Sixteen additional people were injured in the incident.
Carper said multiple officers happened to be in the immediate vicinity when the shooting happened, which led to the incident being resolved in a very short period of time.
"For that, we are very fortunate,” Carper said.
terrorist attack my ass
Change your fucking gun laws morons
rip
Mass shootings are just an offshoot of the suicide epidemic.
A toxic soup created by: poor access to mental health care for people at-risk, poor gun control laws that give too many people access to guns and a nation that is too stubborn and normalized to violence to change it.
I don’t think just attacking one aspect changes our culture. You have to do all three.
I agree with Shaun King that this shit should be covered as terrorism in the media more often. Especially when the shooters have manifestos and are explicitly white nationalist.
It's really fucking wild that America is at a place where terrorists are going around the country killing people because of the president talking shit on Twitter.
You don't need to be part of a big organization to commit acts of terrorism. When these dudes have manifestos laying out political reasons for doing this shit, it's terrorism in the most literal definition. It doesn't have to be political, any ideological reasoning for mass shooting events makes it terrorism.
You think he went into that situation expecting to live? That’s part of why they do these things because they can’t pull the trigger on themselves.
Why do you not want to label it as terrorism
Esch already posted a pretty plausible accounting of "root causes," but it sounds like you're looking for a narrative of personal, internal pain because you want to believe that this level of cruelty has to be the result of some really severe stressors.
Why do you not want to label it as terrorism
Kinda just playing DA for TA here, but it doesn’t really matter what you label it, a pattern needs to be recognized and traced to its source and holistically fixed. Calling these white supremacist terrorist attacks doesn’t make them stop. And people tend to stop trying to treat you as human with factors that led you down that path once you’re labeled “terrorist”
Why do you not want to label it as terrorism
Kinda just playing DA for TA here, but it doesn’t really matter what you label it, a pattern needs to be recognized and traced to its source and holistically fixed. Calling these white supremacist terrorist attacks doesn’t make them stop. And people tend to stop trying to treat you as human with factors that led you down that path once you’re labeled “terrorist”
Why do you not want to label it as terrorism
Kinda just playing DA for TA here, but it doesn’t really matter what you label it, a pattern needs to be recognized and traced to its source and holistically fixed. Calling these white supremacist terrorist attacks doesn’t make them stop. And people tend to stop trying to treat you as human with factors that led you down that path once you’re labeled “terrorist”
I see your point but disagree. 1) Terrorist is the appropriate label for these actions - it's not meant to make them stop. Identifying them as terrorist attacks is important so that police and government agencies can use anti-terror laws to fight them. 2) Concerning fighting the cause not the symptom - the same can be said about any terrorist act in general: there is always an underlying cause. People are not born terrorists. Islamic terrorists are just as likely to be mentally unsound as a nazi. However, the US and really all countries don't really have a mental health system capable of solving this. The underlying cause doesn't even need to be mental health, as racism, misinformation, and geopolitics are causes as a well and those can't really be solved. 3) It's more important to stop people from becoming nazis in the first place than to bring in people in from the cold. And when you can say this is the end result of white nationalism and link that back to more moderate white nationalist views it should stop people from having those views in the first place. And that is a lot different than saying this was a just a crazy guy but then go on talking about how brown people are going to take over America in 20 years while quietly forgetting that this guy did this because of that same fear.
Why do you not want to label it as terrorism
Why do you not want to label it as terrorism
Why do you not want to label it a hate crime? That label already exists and has a very specific meaning.
TBH the shooters manifesto that blends aspects of left rhetoric (environment, animus against corporate elites) with far right causation and praxis is some of the closest to Nazi 2k19 we've seen yet.
TBH the shooters manifesto that blends aspects of left rhetoric (environment, animus against corporate elites) with far right causation and praxis is some of the closest to Nazi 2k19 we've seen yet. Expect more as America descends farther and farther into fascism.
Why do you not want to label it as terrorism
Kinda just playing DA for TA here, but it doesn’t really matter what you label it, a pattern needs to be recognized and traced to its source and holistically fixed. Calling these white supremacist terrorist attacks doesn’t make them stop. And people tend to stop trying to treat you as human with factors that led you down that path once you’re labeled “terrorist”
I see your point but disagree. 1) Terrorist is the appropriate label for these actions - it's not meant to make them stop. Identifying them as terrorist attacks is important so that police and government agencies can use anti-terror laws to fight them. 2) Concerning fighting the cause not the symptom - the same can be said about any terrorist act in general: there is always an underlying cause. People are not born terrorists. Islamic terrorists are just as likely to be mentally unsound as a nazi. However, the US and really all countries don't really have a mental health system capable of solving this. The underlying cause doesn't even need to be mental health, as racism, misinformation, and geopolitics are causes as a well and those can't really be solved. 3) It's more important to stop people from becoming nazis in the first place than to bring in people in from the cold. And when you can say this is the end result of white nationalism and link that back to more moderate white nationalist views it should stop people from having those views in the first place. And that is a lot different than saying this was a just a crazy guy but then go on talking about how brown people are going to take over America in 20 years while quietly forgetting that this guy did this because of that same fear.
I don’t exactly disagree with you, but I will point out you want to use the correct label (terrorist) while using the wrong one (nazi). That guy sounds like distinguished mentally-challenged white supremacist. I don’t think namedropping Nazi for every single racist redneck scumbag will help.
Why do you not want to label it as terrorism
Kinda just playing DA for TA here, but it doesn’t really matter what you label it, a pattern needs to be recognized and traced to its source and holistically fixed. Calling these white supremacist terrorist attacks doesn’t make them stop. And people tend to stop trying to treat you as human with factors that led you down that path once you’re labeled “terrorist”
I see your point but disagree. 1) Terrorist is the appropriate label for these actions - it's not meant to make them stop. Identifying them as terrorist attacks is important so that police and government agencies can use anti-terror laws to fight them. 2) Concerning fighting the cause not the symptom - the same can be said about any terrorist act in general: there is always an underlying cause. People are not born terrorists. Islamic terrorists are just as likely to be mentally unsound as a nazi. However, the US and really all countries don't really have a mental health system capable of solving this. The underlying cause doesn't even need to be mental health, as racism, misinformation, and geopolitics are causes as a well and those can't really be solved. 3) It's more important to stop people from becoming nazis in the first place than to bring in people in from the cold. And when you can say this is the end result of white nationalism and link that back to more moderate white nationalist views it should stop people from having those views in the first place. And that is a lot different than saying this was a just a crazy guy but then go on talking about how brown people are going to take over America in 20 years while quietly forgetting that this guy did this because of that same fear.
I don’t exactly disagree with you, but I will point out you want to use the correct label (terrorist) while using the wrong one (nazi). That guy sounds like distinguished mentally-challenged white supremacist. I don’t think namedropping Nazi for every single racist redneck scumbag will help.
No neo-nazi or just nazi is totally appropriate; you don't need a shaved head and a 88 tat to be one.
The people refusing to let a terrorist be called a terrorist are the politically motivated ones.
This is one of the first times I remember seeing ecofascism in a shooters manifesto. Expect it to become the norm.
Australia-born terrorist Brenton Harrison Tarrant the perpetrator behind the 2019 attacks on the Al Noor Mosque and the Linwood Islamic Centre in Christchurch, New Zealand, is a self-avowed eco-fascist in addition to being an "Ethno-nationalist" "Kebab removalist" and "racist" in his manifesto The Great Replacement named after the far-right theory from France of the same name by writer Renaud Camus.
I disagree.Why do you not want to label it as terrorism
Kinda just playing DA for TA here, but it doesn’t really matter what you label it, a pattern needs to be recognized and traced to its source and holistically fixed. Calling these white supremacist terrorist attacks doesn’t make them stop. And people tend to stop trying to treat you as human with factors that led you down that path once you’re labeled “terrorist”
I see your point but disagree. 1) Terrorist is the appropriate label for these actions - it's not meant to make them stop. Identifying them as terrorist attacks is important so that police and government agencies can use anti-terror laws to fight them. 2) Concerning fighting the cause not the symptom - the same can be said about any terrorist act in general: there is always an underlying cause. People are not born terrorists. Islamic terrorists are just as likely to be mentally unsound as a nazi. However, the US and really all countries don't really have a mental health system capable of solving this. The underlying cause doesn't even need to be mental health, as racism, misinformation, and geopolitics are causes as a well and those can't really be solved. 3) It's more important to stop people from becoming nazis in the first place than to bring in people in from the cold. And when you can say this is the end result of white nationalism and link that back to more moderate white nationalist views it should stop people from having those views in the first place. And that is a lot different than saying this was a just a crazy guy but then go on talking about how brown people are going to take over America in 20 years while quietly forgetting that this guy did this because of that same fear.
I don’t exactly disagree with you, but I will point out you want to use the correct label (terrorist) while using the wrong one (nazi). That guy sounds like distinguished mentally-challenged white supremacist. I don’t think namedropping Nazi for every single racist redneck scumbag will help.
No neo-nazi or just nazi is totally appropriate; you don't need a shaved head and a 88 tat to be one.
In an age where actual Nazis are walking around promoting literal Nazi rhetoric and getting interviews on CNN, I think it should be noted that both Nazism and White Supremacy are on the rise. It's very easily distinguishable and able to be pointed out.
The public at large seem to be quick on dismissing the rise of Nazis (and consequently that of White Supremacy) in the US as Leftist rhetoric due to its rather frequent usage.
I can’t speak for others, but I didn’t call the Fort Hood shooter a terrorist. Just another troubled, socially-isolated young person that fits the mold of most of these shooters.(https://media.giphy.com/media/h8V1Xoh2mlY9G/giphy.gif)
I disagree.Why do you not want to label it as terrorism
Kinda just playing DA for TA here, but it doesn’t really matter what you label it, a pattern needs to be recognized and traced to its source and holistically fixed. Calling these white supremacist terrorist attacks doesn’t make them stop. And people tend to stop trying to treat you as human with factors that led you down that path once you’re labeled “terrorist”
I see your point but disagree. 1) Terrorist is the appropriate label for these actions - it's not meant to make them stop. Identifying them as terrorist attacks is important so that police and government agencies can use anti-terror laws to fight them. 2) Concerning fighting the cause not the symptom - the same can be said about any terrorist act in general: there is always an underlying cause. People are not born terrorists. Islamic terrorists are just as likely to be mentally unsound as a nazi. However, the US and really all countries don't really have a mental health system capable of solving this. The underlying cause doesn't even need to be mental health, as racism, misinformation, and geopolitics are causes as a well and those can't really be solved. 3) It's more important to stop people from becoming nazis in the first place than to bring in people in from the cold. And when you can say this is the end result of white nationalism and link that back to more moderate white nationalist views it should stop people from having those views in the first place. And that is a lot different than saying this was a just a crazy guy but then go on talking about how brown people are going to take over America in 20 years while quietly forgetting that this guy did this because of that same fear.
I don’t exactly disagree with you, but I will point out you want to use the correct label (terrorist) while using the wrong one (nazi). That guy sounds like distinguished mentally-challenged white supremacist. I don’t think namedropping Nazi for every single racist redneck scumbag will help.
No neo-nazi or just nazi is totally appropriate; you don't need a shaved head and a 88 tat to be one.
In an age where actual Nazis are walking around promoting literal Nazi rhetoric and getting interviews on CNN, I think it should be noted that both Nazism and White Supremacy are on the rise. It's very easily distinguishable and able to be pointed out.
The public at large seem to be quick on dismissing the rise of Nazis (and consequently that of White Supremacy) in the US as Leftist rhetoric due to its rather frequent usage.
He talked about 'Hispanic invasion of Texas' and wanted an ethnic white state - that is white nationalism and not just white supremacy of the 60's KKK. A white ethnic state and the idea that its ok to use violence to achieve that is the core of neo nazism in America. Neo-nazism is a set of beliefs that have different surface features depending on where it appears and in America it terns to focus on race aspects as opposed to the political aspect of being for a totalitarian state. I also highly doubt that white nationalists in modern times are strongly pro-democracy, which makes any distinction really pointless. If a true fascist movement came to America, would white nationalists not be first in line to sign up? Also, people might also be less dismissive if fools didn't mention Goldwin law any time someone says the word nazi.
When your subcultures overlap in terms of idea on race, violence, and actions, what aesthetic they identify with doesn't matter. Nazi propaganda overlaps so much with white nationalist propaganda that the source doesn't actually matter. Those with vested interests will continue to spin. PERIOD. And if you give them the room to say 'that's not us, that's them' only based on the fact that one has a swastika tattoo and one has a confederate flag tattoo* then you play into their hands. Your personal distinction is useless and harmful in that helps spread the ideology as it allows white nationalists to hide under the normality of American racism.
*I'm not saying a confederate flag is a sign that someone is a white nationalist, though most white nationalist probably like the symbol.
(https://i.imgur.com/hcMGohL.jpg?1)
I disagree.Why do you not want to label it as terrorism
Kinda just playing DA for TA here, but it doesn’t really matter what you label it, a pattern needs to be recognized and traced to its source and holistically fixed. Calling these white supremacist terrorist attacks doesn’t make them stop. And people tend to stop trying to treat you as human with factors that led you down that path once you’re labeled “terrorist”
I see your point but disagree. 1) Terrorist is the appropriate label for these actions - it's not meant to make them stop. Identifying them as terrorist attacks is important so that police and government agencies can use anti-terror laws to fight them. 2) Concerning fighting the cause not the symptom - the same can be said about any terrorist act in general: there is always an underlying cause. People are not born terrorists. Islamic terrorists are just as likely to be mentally unsound as a nazi. However, the US and really all countries don't really have a mental health system capable of solving this. The underlying cause doesn't even need to be mental health, as racism, misinformation, and geopolitics are causes as a well and those can't really be solved. 3) It's more important to stop people from becoming nazis in the first place than to bring in people in from the cold. And when you can say this is the end result of white nationalism and link that back to more moderate white nationalist views it should stop people from having those views in the first place. And that is a lot different than saying this was a just a crazy guy but then go on talking about how brown people are going to take over America in 20 years while quietly forgetting that this guy did this because of that same fear.
I don’t exactly disagree with you, but I will point out you want to use the correct label (terrorist) while using the wrong one (nazi). That guy sounds like distinguished mentally-challenged white supremacist. I don’t think namedropping Nazi for every single racist redneck scumbag will help.
No neo-nazi or just nazi is totally appropriate; you don't need a shaved head and a 88 tat to be one.
In an age where actual Nazis are walking around promoting literal Nazi rhetoric and getting interviews on CNN, I think it should be noted that both Nazism and White Supremacy are on the rise. It's very easily distinguishable and able to be pointed out.
The public at large seem to be quick on dismissing the rise of Nazis (and consequently that of White Supremacy) in the US as Leftist rhetoric due to its rather frequent usage.
He talked about 'Hispanic invasion of Texas' and wanted an ethnic white state - that is white nationalism and not just white supremacy of the 60's KKK. A white ethnic state and the idea that its ok to use violence to achieve that is the core of neo nazism in America. Neo-nazism is a set of beliefs that have different surface features depending on where it appears and in America it terns to focus on race aspects as opposed to the political aspect of being for a totalitarian state. I also highly doubt that white nationalists in modern times are strongly pro-democracy, which makes any distinction really pointless. If a true fascist movement came to America, would white nationalists not be first in line to sign up? Also, people might also be less dismissive if fools didn't mention Goldwin law any time someone says the word nazi.
:dayum
People dismiss this stuff because a lot of idiots label Nazis to everything vaguely felt as authoritarian. You guys really don’t know how stupid you sound even when people agree with you.When your subcultures overlap in terms of idea on race, violence, and actions, what aesthetic they identify with doesn't matter. Nazi propaganda overlaps so much with white nationalist propaganda that the source doesn't actually matter. Those with vested interests will continue to spin. PERIOD. And if you give them the room to say 'that's not us, that's them' only based on the fact that one has a swastika tattoo and one has a confederate flag tattoo* then you play into their hands. Your personal distinction is useless and harmful in that helps spread the ideology as it allows white nationalists to hide under the normality of American racism.
*I'm not saying a confederate flag is a sign that someone is a white nationalist, though most white nationalist probably like the symbol.
Dude, I live in Mexico and I have heard stupid people throwing the word Nazi to the government, police, military.
TBH the shooters manifesto that blends aspects of left rhetoric (environment, animus against corporate elites) with far right causation and praxis is some of the closest to Nazi 2k19 we've seen yet. Expect more as America descends farther and farther into fascism.
I get your point but the fact that people can say there is no direct link, therefore 'you said nazi lol you stupid lib' is because they are supported by people like you who want to make some kind of phony distinction between the two. White nationalism is American nazism. They are all just 'frustrated white boys' even if someone of them are not hillybilly dumb, like Richard Spencer is not. Someone who openly calls themselves a nazi is just as evil as a white nationalist. The latter is not just a mixed up old boy doing the old boy thing.
And when you say you have no real power you're just someone on the internet occasionally posting about ' frustrate white boys' being different from nazis. Well isn't that the same as the majority of people that allow for a lack of accountability based on not having direct ties?
I called someone who killed people for the reason of perpetuating a white ethnic state a nazi. I did not say anyone wearing a red hat is a nazi. You seem to have lumped me into a group of people, based solely on the fact that I said 'nazi' without thinking about why I used that word. Then you extended that by also lumping those people into the same group that you heard call the Mexican government Nazis. Who sounds like an idiot again?
2 it shows that these people are often not doing this for any one ideology but pure chaos
He literally said he was doing it to fight off Hispanic 'invasions'. His modus operandi is to create a white ethnostate. He's a fascist.... Pretty straightforward.
TBH the shooters manifesto that blends aspects of left rhetoric (environment, animus against corporate elites) with far right causation and praxis is some of the closest to Nazi 2k19 we've seen yet. Expect more as America descends farther and farther into fascism.
It is arguable that he is like the Christchurch shooter. What you read from the manifesto is what you want for read. I see conservatives calling him progressive because of his left views and left people’s calling him a conservative because of his right views. In reality it could very well be intentional to cause more division in an divided time. So if you call him a Trumpist you’re likely showing your bias. This is why it’s best to label him a terrorist.
1. It erases from the American public the idea that a terrorist can only be an Arab, which is a good thing
2 it shows that these people are often not doing this for any one ideology but pure chaos
I don't say distinguishing ideologies is a waste of time I'm saying there is no reason to distinguish them. They are the same thing and that is not hyperbole. And your only reason you have for distinguishing them seems to be because it lets people laugh off the clam - which is the exact thing you are doing. It's like 'You said nazi lol you idiot'. and justifying that as 'You can't call people nazis because they will call you an idiot. Idiot'
I don’t exactly disagree with you, but I will point out you want to use the correct label (terrorist) while using the wrong one (nazi). That guy sounds like distinguished mentally-challenged white supremacist. I don’t think namedropping Nazi for every single racist redneck scumbag will help.
Federal agents arrested 19-year-old William Patrick Williams on Thursday after his discharge from a hospital. According to a criminal complaint, the Lubbock man had told his grandmother that he'd bought an AK-47 rifle recently, planned to "shoot up" a local hotel, then force police to kill him. Sensing that her grandson was both suicidal and homicidal, the woman persuaded him to be hospitalized instead.
Fascism like any other ideology adapts based on the time and place, whether it is literally 'nazism' is whatever. Maybe in time we'll have a historical label for an emerging settler colonial, fascism that is (necessary) environmental in policy due to the reality of climate change. But we don't have one now.
The shooters talk against corporations will be something to keep tabs on. Perhaps it's a reaction to the diversity in workplace movement and social justice messaging from some corporations. As the conditions of this country deteriorate from an economic perspective, fueling farther left and right ideology, let's see if those corporations maintain that messaging.
:hitler
TBH the shooters manifesto that blends aspects of left rhetoric (environment, animus against corporate elites) with far right causation and praxis is some of the closest to Nazi 2k19 we've seen yet. Expect more as America descends farther and farther into fascism.
It is arguable that he is like the Christchurch shooter. What you read from the manifesto is what you want for read. I see conservatives calling him progressive because of his left views and left people’s calling him a conservative because of his right views. In reality it could very well be intentional to cause more division in an divided time. So if you call him a Trumpist you’re likely showing your bias. This is why it’s best to label him a terrorist.
1. It erases from the American public the idea that a terrorist can only be an Arab, which is a good thing
2 it shows that these people are often not doing this for any one ideology but pure chaos
Honestly, the my side vs your side shit is just awful. People rifling through the manifestos, which could be nonsense just to be inflammatory for all we know, just to affirm it was the "other side" which means you win. People have turned these into a sporting event of sorts.
If your biggest concern about terrorism is "giving ammo" to the other side or absolving your perceived political side/group of any complicity, you're a terrible person.
I don't say distinguishing ideologies is a waste of time I'm saying there is no reason to distinguish them. They are the same thing and that is not hyperbole. And your only reason you have for distinguishing them seems to be because it lets people laugh off the clam - which is the exact thing you are doing. It's like 'You said nazi lol you idiot'. and justifying that as 'You can't call people nazis because they will call you an idiot. Idiot'
Who is laughing about what? This was my first reply to you:I don’t exactly disagree with you, but I will point out you want to use the correct label (terrorist) while using the wrong one (nazi). That guy sounds like distinguished mentally-challenged white supremacist. I don’t think namedropping Nazi for every single racist redneck scumbag will help.
Fascism like any other ideology adapts based on the time and place, whether it is literally 'nazism' is whatever. Maybe in time we'll have a historical label for an emerging settler colonial, fascism that is (necessary) environmental in policy due to the reality of climate change. But we don't have one now.
The shooters talk against corporations will be something to keep tabs on. Perhaps it's a reaction to the diversity in workplace movement and social justice messaging from some corporations. As the conditions of this country deteriorate from an economic perspective, fueling farther left and right ideology, let's see if those corporations maintain that messaging.
:hitler
I’m talking about his political ideology that people can point fingers at. “See? He was a conservative.” “See? He was a progressive.” That shit takes away from the real discussion: his fascism and white supremacist views.(https://media.giphy.com/media/h8V1Xoh2mlY9G/giphy.gif)
I don't say distinguishing ideologies is a waste of time I'm saying there is no reason to distinguish them. They are the same thing and that is not hyperbole. And your only reason you have for distinguishing them seems to be because it lets people laugh off the clam - which is the exact thing you are doing. It's like 'You said nazi lol you idiot'. and justifying that as 'You can't call people nazis because they will call you an idiot. Idiot'
Who is laughing about what? This was my first reply to you:I don’t exactly disagree with you, but I will point out you want to use the correct label (terrorist) while using the wrong one (nazi). That guy sounds like distinguished mentally-challenged white supremacist. I don’t think namedropping Nazi for every single racist redneck scumbag will help.
"You guys really don’t know how stupid you sound even when people agree with you. " is "You said nazi lol you idiot"
I’m talking about his political ideology that people can point fingers at. “See? He was a conservative.” “See? He was a progressive.” That shit takes away from the real discussion: his fascism and white supremacist views.(https://media.giphy.com/media/h8V1Xoh2mlY9G/giphy.gif)
(https://i.imgur.com/Fgwqxc8.gif)
Thats not what I'm getting at....My point is that the American MAGA - right dislikes the liberal multikulti hegemony coming from the Nikes of the world, and as the contradictions of the economy fuel more extreme ideology on both sides of the spectrum, corporations will drop those externally socially liberal views to back who upholds capital; the fascists.
In short, the ideology of neoliberal capitalism was the promise of growth. But with neoliberal capitalism reaching a dead end, this promise disappears and so does this ideological prop. To sustain itself, neoliberal capitalism starts looking for some other ideological prop and finds fascism. This changes the discourse away from the material conditions of people’s lives to the so-called threat to the nation, placing the blame for people’s distress not on the failure of the system, but on ethnic, linguistic, and religious minority groups, the other that is portrayed as an enemy. It projects a so-called messiah whose sheer muscularity can somehow magically overcome all problems; it promotes a culture of unreason so that both the vilification of the other and the magical powers of the supposed leader can be placed beyond any intellectual questioning; it uses a combination of state repression and street-level vigilantism by fascist thugs to terrorize opponents; and it forges a close relationship with big business, or, in Kalecki’s words, “a partnership of big business and fascist upstarts.”
Fascist groups of one kind or another exist in all modern societies. They move center stage and even into power only on certain occasions when they get the backing of big business. And these occasions arise when three conditions are satisfied: when there is an economic crisis so the system cannot simply go on as before; when the usual liberal establishment is manifestly incapable of resolving the crisis; and when the left is not strong enough to provide an alternative to the people in order to move out of the conjuncture.
This last point may appear odd at first, since many see the big bourgeoisie’s recourse to fascism as a counter to the growth of the left’s strength in the context of a capitalist crisis. But when the left poses a serious threat, the response of the big bourgeoisie typically is to attempt to split it by offering concessions. It uses fascism to prop itself up only when the left is weakened. Walter Benjamin’s remark that “behind every fascism there is a failed revolution” points in this direction.
yeah, it would be something if the right wingers topple the corporate hegemony over racial sensitivity training instead of oppression of the working class...
Thats not what I'm getting at....My point is that the American MAGA - right dislikes the liberal multikulti hegemony coming from the Nikes of the world, and as the contradictions of the economy fuel more extreme ideology on both sides of the spectrum, corporations will drop those externally socially liberal views to back who upholds capital; the fascists.
Well, is good that I didn’t say it wasn’t fascist related (speaking for me personally).
Here the thing, you are perfectly able to distinguish terms. Why go in a hyper defensive rant about you right to use the term whatever you like?
I'm not feeling defensive at all, lol ???. I just think it's fair to draw parallels between today's situation and those of the past. We're all doing it in here. If you think that it turns people off to call it Nazism as a tactic, fine. I didn't get bogged down in all that. Different people are receptive to different analyses. We have a stagnant global capitalism heading for a t-bone with climate change that'll have a devastating effect on growth-dependent economies, and the ideological prelude to those conditions are what we're seeing now. just my 2c
:yeshrug
Calling something Nazi lost even more meaning when corporate conservatism launched a blistering rebuke of far left wing gatherings with "nuh-uh, you're the real nazis".
Which people eat up.
Calling something Nazi lost even more meaning when corporate conservatism launched a blistering rebuke of far left wing gatherings with "nuh-uh, you're the real nazis".
Which people eat up.
yeah, it would be something if the right wingers topple the corporate hegemony over racial sensitivity training instead of oppression of the working class...
Thats not what I'm getting at....My point is that the American MAGA - right dislikes the liberal multikulti hegemony coming from the Nikes of the world, and as the contradictions of the economy fuel more extreme ideology on both sides of the spectrum, corporations will drop those externally socially liberal views to back who upholds capital; the fascists.
(https://i.imgur.com/hcMGohL.jpg?1)
NRA lost like three board members mere days before this. NRA is dying.
https://thehill.com/regulation/lobbying/455862-three-nra-board-members-resign-from-organization
No one is coming to defend the NRA. Lol NRA invests mere peanuts in the political system compared to big pharma, media, fast food companies, and anti-gun groups like Everytown and now they (NRA) are dying. Lol check the deets yourself. Anti-gun groups far outspend NRA. This characterization of NRA is hilarious and in no way reality.
This recent election was the first time anti-gun groups raised more/spent more than the NRA.
Point taken, anyway. Still feel is just justification, specially since the guy admitted he didn’t think that deep about it.You don't have to a have a certificate that proves you understand the full implications of your ideology to be a follower. (It helps if you don't, particularly for foot soldiers. :doge )
...
Point taken, anyway. Still feel is just justification, specially since the guy admitted he didn’t think that deep about it.You don't have to a have a certificate that proves you understand the full implications of your ideology to be a follower. (It helps if you don't, particularly for foot soldiers. :doge )
So sure not differentiating them might not change any of these peoples minds but it might make it look like a less acceptable thing to get into in the first place. Prevention rather than treatment.
Also, I completely disagree that it is mine and other peoples generalization which is what lets these groups thrive. You are right that they are slimy and will try to pin you down on definitions and they do use confusion but that's only because we play into their hands by saying a nazi has to quote Hitler etc. and not saying a Nazi is someone who wants to create a white ethnic state through violence and ultra-nationalism. And - and this is an important point to my perspective - they would do this anyway; it doesn't matter what we call them they are slime and will try to hide in misinformation and confusion. However, the more people who will say a white nationalist is a nazi, the less wiggle room they will have and the more it represents their ideology in terms of practical outcomes instead of just more jobs for white people.
Ronald Reagan really fucked this country even more than Nixon.
All three of the underlying problems for most of these mass shootings (gutting of mental health in 1981, gutting of gun control in 1986, providing a blueprint for celebrity candidate to run on coded language or outright racism (Reagan was against the Civil and Voting Rights Acts and ran ads calling black areas "jungles", as well quotes like this : “If an individual wants to discriminate against Negroes or others in selling or renting his house, it is his right to do so.” and supported apartheid governments )) wrap back around to that piece of shit Ronald Reagan.
For the record, federal agencies have looked them. White domestic terrorism is considered the greatest threat to America’s safety.
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/03/domestic-terror-still-greater-threat-than-islamic-extremism.html
They’re also looking at “black racial extremists”.
But is also easier to dismiss the label as is getting muddled in any case. So I can totally namedrop the Lorax in my manifiesto, support Trump and hate corporations because any label is meaningless and fake news.Swatting away the boo-boo word by dressing their intentions up as jokes only allows them to hide, at least to casual observers. This guy may have not done it deliberately, I don't know, but it's a common tactic. In my view, you deal with this by just cutting the gordian knot.
yeah, it would be something if the right wingers topple the corporate hegemony over racial sensitivity training instead of oppression of the working class...
Thats not what I'm getting at....My point is that the American MAGA - right dislikes the liberal multikulti hegemony coming from the Nikes of the world, and as the contradictions of the economy fuel more extreme ideology on both sides of the spectrum, corporations will drop those externally socially liberal views to back who upholds capital; the fascists.
And I suppose those fascists are the bourgeois?
Answering this question fully would require me to do a comparison with Hitler or Mussolini's backing from business elites at home and abroad, afraid of socialist revolutions in their home countries but you seem opposed to drawing those parallels. We could take a look at the gas in Bolsonaro's tank and his opposition and what they've done in opposition to gains made by the Workers Party, or point out Trump's position as a member of the owner class. It's a more complex situation now with the development of global-imperial worker and ownership structure. Fascism gets broad class support in the countries it affects - whether it's in the material interests of the people whom it affects or not. But it certainly serves the interests of capital.
For the record, federal agencies have looked them. White domestic terrorism is considered the greatest threat to America’s safety.
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/03/domestic-terror-still-greater-threat-than-islamic-extremism.html
They’re also looking at “black racial extremists”.
When have they not been looking at black racial extremists.
The issue is that the feds can make remarks like that but unless there is the political and social will to act on it then it is for nothing. The first time the feds come after these groups and it turns into Waco or Ruby Ridge the right will scream that it's just about taking their guns and any progress will stop.
But is also easier to dismiss the label as is getting muddled in any case. So I can totally namedrop the Lorax in my manifiesto, support Trump and hate corporations because any label is meaningless and fake news.Swatting away the boo-boo word by dressing their intentions up as jokes only allows them to hide, at least to casual observers. This guy may have not done it deliberately, I don't know, but it's a common tactic. In my view, you deal with this by just cutting the gordian knot.
It's how the OK-sign became both a joke and a legit signal. You rally around the joke to find like-minded people.
Shosta and I are both repurposing arguments from Blackshirts and Reds:ufup
I sure as fuck I buy the okay sign being used as a racist sign when is pretty clear the context is malicious or intentional. But this guys count in people getting angry about it when is not actually intended rather than when is.Absolutely. You have to weigh these things carefully. However, just ignoring it alltogether is not the solution. Looking like a fool every once in a while is an acceptable loss.
But you are the one that that is dismissing the actual definitions because something you just admired said in the heat of a moment. You are the one creating the wiggle room because you think calling them Nazis give them more weight when it feels more like a lazy label that takes out the weight.
I sure as fuck I buy the okay sign being used as a racist sign when is pretty clear the context is malicious or intentional. But this guys count in people getting angry about it when is not actually intended rather than when is.Absolutely. You have to weigh these things carefully. However, just ignoring it alltogether is not the solution. Looking like a fool every once in a while is an acceptable loss.
The ok sign thing is a part of their operations. They can’t outright say,”this is a sign of white supremacy” so they hide behind something ordinary like an ok sign. They also did so just when that game was really taking off as a meme on social media. So they take something people known of and use it as a signal, and if you get it you’re one of them. But it’s so ordinary that you look crazy when you say,”this is a sign used by fascists” and they can wave it off by saying,”it’s just an okay sign!”
This is the danger with a lot of these modern white supremacy movements: they’re able to spread via wit and hide in plain sight because they know their views do not have social capital.
It’s also why the El Paso shooter used both left and right ideology in his manifesto. It’s to mask his true meaning to the partisans while actual white supremacists get the message.
Here is the problem: there is a lot of fools out there and making fools of themselves not exactly once in a while. And worse, a lot of these fools don’t like to learn about it.I don't know enough normies to have a sense of how much of a concern this actually is. :doge They're certainly useful as a totem for the other side of the trench, that's true.
The way I see it, you need to fix the following
- The 24/7 news cycle which basically turns any minor issue or incident into the next apocalypse (All US news outlets are laughable in this regard)
- The gun laws, which literally allow anyone to buy a gun without checks
- The immigration policy itself (this is about trust in government more than anything, if the population feels like things are under control they are less likely to try and find solutions on their own.
Again both parties actively create the image that the system is completely broken (border patrol = concentration camps! vs. immigration = invasion!))
A lot of people still seem to underestimate the effect of 9/11, the war on terror and the following economic crisis. I don't think it is a surprise that pretty much all shootings are carried out by males age 20 - 30.
Who when coming of age woke up each day with the "TERROR ALERT" and lost all trust and confidence in their government. These people exist and dwell beyond the set political boundaries of left/right which they gave up on a long time ago.
It is not just the 250 mass shootings but also stuff like self immolation on the White House lawn and the dramatic rise in suicides which all seem to have the same root causes.
An ever growing part of the population is acting and behaving like a doomsday cult.
It depends on your definition of mass shootings I suppose but the 250 number comes from here:
https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting (https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting)
Imagine thinking someone shooting themselves in the head isn’t gun violence.
(those stats should be mentioned as suicide, but you could also point out studies that show access to a gun increases someone’s chance of actually killing themselves, it’s not exactly a pro-gun rights stat for anyone not a psychopath)
The thing about ecoterrorism is that its pretty easy to do without harming anyone or at least minimizing life lost.
It's not like 'well by my definition there were only 20 mass shooting this year' makes the situation any better. That's still 20 that should/could be prevented.
It is not normal to have so many shootings period, especially not in places like shopping malls, schools, clubs and the likes.
20 is still multitudes higher than literally every other country in the world though?
The methodology for the 250 is clearly explained:It's not like 'well by my definition there were only 20 mass shooting this year' makes the situation any better. That's still 20 that should/could be prevented.
It is not normal to have so many shootings period, especially not in places like shopping malls, schools, clubs and the likes.
20 vs 250.
"It's not like 'well by my definition there were only 20 mass shooting this year' makes the situation any better."
That's a massive difference, large enough for people to discount trust in official opinions entirely.
"If they're lying about that what else are they lying about?" and down the rabbithole we go.
And on this day, a new Republican was made.
(https://i.imgur.com/ZIEERQw.gif)
Whether it's a logical or emotional reaction doesn't matter. That's how it happens.
Why are GVA Mass Shooting numbers higher than some other sources?
GVA uses a purely statistical threshold to define mass shooting based ONLY on the numeric value of 4 or more shot or killed, not including the shooter. GVA does not parse the definition to remove any subcategory of shooting. To that end we don’t exclude, set apart, caveat, or differentiate victims based upon the circumstances in which they were shot.
GVA believes that equal importance is given to the counting of those injured as well as killed in a mass shooting incident.
The FBI does not define Mass Shooting in any form. They do define Mass Killing but that includes all forms of weapon, not just guns.
In that, the criteria are simple…if four or more people are shot or killed in a single incident, not involving the shooter, that incident is categorized as a mass shooting based purely on that numerical threshold.
And what do you possibly have to lose?(https://media.giphy.com/media/TWlLcwaICoJvG/giphy.gif)
I'm going to exit the group before I get put on a watch list.
My last question is if he posts on neogafask him to unban me!
you know, it just occured to me Cindi, you can still buy a gun without having to constantly downplay gun violence statistics. I understand you want to be strapped for your own safety, but having to constantly justify it to the people here is what I don't get
and here we go with the manifesto rifling and my side v other side game
https://twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/1158165012864573440
Mexico vows to take legal action against U.S. after deadly El Paso shooting
QuoteMexico vows to take legal action against U.S. after deadly El Paso shooting
Oh wow, I always wondered how many mass shootings we’d need before some kind of international pressure
I believe there were a few Mexican nationals that were killed in the event
HOLY SHIT. EVERYONE SIDE IS A SCUMBAG. WHY THE FUCK YOU NEED TO KILL PEOPLE JUST TO MAKE A SHITTY POLITICAL POINT.Because sometimes, the powers that be will look to appease in response. Not to the direct demands, but as a vague grievances attributed to the public. "Not like this, obviously, but clearly we should do something about immigration."
HOLY SHIT. EVERYONE SIDE IS A SCUMBAG. WHY THE FUCK YOU NEED TO KILL PEOPLE JUST TO MAKE A SHITTY POLITICAL POINT.Because sometimes, the powers that be will look to appease in response. Not to the direct demands, but as a vague grievances attributed to the public. "Not like this, obviously, but clearly we should do something about immigration."
I caught that, but couldn't see the connection to what I had posted.
It's all good, man.I caught that, but couldn't see the connection to what I had posted.
You are right. I’m sorry, I didn’t want to sound accusatory. I disagree with you a lot but I feel you are good people. All of this just makes me so fucking sad.
Makes sense. I have trouble reigning in my misanthropy sometimes... Sorry, Boredfrom.I caught that, but couldn't see the connection to what I had posted.
More the sensitivity thing. Which since bored is a reasonable guy he apologized for jumping to conclusions right away.
I get and agree with your point, just saying that someone might take it the wrong way when it's a bit too real for them in that moment.
https://twitter.com/jaredlholt/status/1157796523016691714
um
re: the "mental health" tangent from earlier*
If we put responsibility for preventing these shootings on the mental health system, that wouldn't just be about more resources, access, a "holistic" approach, etc. It would be about making the system a lot more invasive, giving MH professionals broad leeway to institutionalize people against their will and strong incentives to do so. Any therapist will tell you how useless the exercise is for patients who aren't open to it at the time, and lots of patients can attest to how hard it is to get someone to listen to you when you've been committed and feel you're okay to leave.
There would be a lot of people basically being incarcerated in an effort to use mental health as a sort of Minority Report lite surveillance program, and a whole infrastructure built up to support it with no guarantee of results.spoiler (click to show/hide)*I'll read Settlers before I read the last couple pages of this thread[close]
There's a huge gulf between providing free mental health care (and aggressively promoting it) to people of that age and having them institutionalized.
In fact, that shouldn't even be an option. It would undermine people from seeking help in the first place if that were a potential outcome.
Yup, males age 20 - 30 with mental conditions would just be locked up to protect the rest of society.
Not much different from the 'super predators' or the kids carrying a bit of weed of the past.
That and wholesale internet and media censorship is the direction this is headed.
https://twitter.com/TPMLiveWire/status/1158054142390284293
:brain
It's already a potential outcome! Look it up in your state code.
Police said they do not have a motive for Betts’ deadly rampage, but Masseth and other classmates said he expressed violent attitudes going back a decade.
Word spread quickly in 2010 about the lists of 15 classmates he wanted to “rape or kill” in a notebook he carried around, Masseth said.
“He had a kill list that was mostly guys and then a rape list that was mostly girls,” Masseth said, adding that he also texted her the list to prove she was on it. “The lists basically had any girl who turned him down, any girl who thought they were above him, and any guy that was competition or was seen as a threat.”
Masseth, who said she was “not one of the popular girls,” was shocked when she started to get Betts’ texts naming her as one of the girls on his “rape list.” The texts, she said, made it seem like Betts had a “God complex mixed with ‘Iwantattention.’”
Masseth said she doesn’t even remember having a full conversation with him, but later heard rumors he was “attached to her.”
“In the texts, and on the lists, he talked about destruction and dismemberment. I mean how did the police not know he was going to do something like what he did this weekend?” she said. “Everyone knew he was not right.”
After “countless texts” and growing concern in school about the lists, Masseth said she finally told her father, who encouraged her to contact the authorities.
Police officers pulled Betts off a school bus as they headed to school, a former classmate told The Washington Post. Masseth said police questioned Betts about the hit lists and he was suspended from school.
The following year he returned to school, she said. When she graduated in 2012, Betts was still “not right.”
“He basically got a slap on the wrist,” she said. “If he was only held accountable, this shooting would have never happened because he wouldn’t have been able to buy any firearms. There are levels of failure here.”
Police declined to comment on the purported lists, citing the “ongoing investigation” into Betts’ mass murder. Dayton Police Chief Richard Biehl said Sunday that Betts had no criminal record as an adult.
Isn't that a holdover from the past mental health care system where that kind of thing was socially acceptable?
I think the problem is white people
The man who killed nine and injured 27 in a mass shooting in Dayton, Ohio, was the lead singer of a "pornogrind" metal band, a genre defined by its explicit subject matter and themes of gore and violence, specifically sexual violence and necrophilia, BuzzFeed News has learned.
The gunman, identified as 24-year-old Connor Betts, was a member of Menstrual Munchies, a three-person band that performed regularly in the Midwest death metal scene, recently appearing as one of the bands at the Summer Massacre 2 concert in Chicago on June 29.
Pornogrind is a subgenre of a fast and extreme kind of heavy metal called grindcore, which is known for its mostly dark, satirical themes of sexual violence and gore delivered for shock value.
The band's song titles are explicitly sexually violent, such as "Preteen Daughter Pu$$y Slaughter" and "Cunt Stuffed With Medical Waste - Sexual Abuse Of A Teenage Corpse." The album art is equally explicit. One album cover shows a woman consuming feces, while another shows an illustration of a young woman's headless body chained to a bed, covered in blood, as a man puts his pants back on.
Musicians in this genre posted messages online saying they were disgusted by Betts's actions.
https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/1158074774297468928
(http://i.imgur.com/EfNDwr8m.jpg) (https://imgur.com/EfNDwr8)
if you execute everyone who commits a mass shooting, eventually there will be no mass shooters left.The US is implementing their very successful Afghanistan strategy at home.
trying so hard to construct a scenario where pepes are the real victims after a racist mass shooting
trying so so hard
https://twitter.com/AngelinaWTSP/status/1158199254684487680
great we're back to 1999, when politicians blame mass shootings on video games and shock metal
I wonder what Jack Thompson is doing these days?
This is actually really bad data, esp the 500 deaths per medical errors btwhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbsy7VObyyM
An ex-girlfriend of the Ohio gunman who killed nine people says he showed her a video of the Pittsburgh synagogue shooting on their first date.
But then could they also be held liable for a gun being used in a robberySure.
How about a suicide?Okay.
How do you prove the person showed signs they shouldn't have a gun at the time of purchase?Don't need to.
How do you reconcile this with someone's right to have their arrest record sealed?Not my problem.
He also did this on a first date:QuoteAn ex-girlfriend of the Ohio gunman who killed nine people says he showed her a video of the Pittsburgh synagogue shooting on their first date.
Honestly, I think a gun shop owner should have some ideas when someone comes in looking for AKs, banana mags, and armor.
The way that would actually pan out is that people would just stop selling guns to black people. Anyway the only full measure is a constitutional amendment, so we should just go for gold and do that, because setting the bar too low just draws the debate out over an even longer period. I accept your gun seller liability only because it would genuinely cripple the gun market, not because it's well thought out policy.
He also did this on a first date:QuoteAn ex-girlfriend of the Ohio gunman who killed nine people says he showed her a video of the Pittsburgh synagogue shooting on their first date.
How the fuck do gun shops/gun sellers never get dragged into court for selling these weapons to people who in most cases are obvious red flag candidates who should not be sold weapons and armor? Bar tenders can and have been sued and arrested for people they served going out and killing people while driving drunk. You never hear about the gun store that sold the guns to obvious psycho who went and shot 30 people getting any blowblack.
Surely there has to be some specialized liability considering the nature of the products being sold.
One of the most authoritative and interesting surveys of the attitudes of gun owners was conducted by the Pew Research Center in 2017. That survey shows the vast majority of Americans who own guns are not members of the NRA and that most favor some form of gun control. However, most refrain from pushing for greater regulation of guns because they neither trust the government nor believe that it will protect them. They often resent the disdain for their way of life of the kind expressed by President Barack Obama when he suggested they “cling to guns or religion” as a way of expressing “antipathy to people who aren't like them … as a way to explain their frustrations." They see themselves as on their own in a dangerous world.
The sale, manufacture, distribution, purchase and production of guns, as well as the views of their owners, are, in part, responses to the perceived weakness of the government and the perceived need for constant vigilance and a concomitant interpersonal fear. As dangerous weapons, guns offer a form of direct power in a world where trust and civic belonging are in short supply. The Pew poll reported that 67 percent of gun owners said protection is a major reason they own a gun; 38 percent cited hunting, 30 percent listed sport shooting, and 13 percent listed gun collecting as major reasons.
Seriously, the Democratic party cannot be expecting to win in 2020 if their message is "our very Democracy is in danger, people are dying in violent outbursts at an alarming rate, the police keep murdering us for things like wanting to breathe or answering our doors with our phones in our hands, and our solution is to limit our collective capability to defend ourselves from it."
It's such a bizarre fucking time to champion gun control when most of what they're talking about is how oppressive the government has gotten and how much the administration has stoked the flames of extremism. They need to put down that pet cause for just a moment or at least consider the context of what they're saying relative to everything else that's happening.
It's because they have gone from believing the government can help solve some social issues to believing the government can and should solve everything. They should be the sole holders of power and arbiters of good.
If you only want the police to have guns, you're not pro minority rights.
Something else that comes to mind is that we essentially live in a corporate oligarchy these days, and our society voting to disarm itself would play straight into those oligarch's hands. In many ways the police are a tool of said oligarchs, so of course they would get exemptions.
It's so striking how many people in this country are willing to vote away their rights. Our education system has obviously failed to teach people the value of their rights...
Reminds me of the story about Ben Franklin on the last day of the constitutional convention:
“A lady asked Dr. Franklin 'Well Doctor what have we got a republic or a monarchy?' 'A republic,' replied the Doctor 'if you can keep it.'”
Doesn't seem like we're doing a good job of keeping our republic intact.
The Pyramid of Power (https://i.imgur.com/kZKtCsQ.jpg)
I can't figure out which is more peak centrism:
Bitching you don't feel safe because of the 'mass shooting epidemic' and then making fun of people who want to be armed cause 'wHy wOUldN't yOu fEEL SaFe at WaLMArt, lOL PUssy'. Or is it wanting to disarm the populace while there are literal concentration camps. 🤔
Because that’s bad policy. At that point you could start suing and prosecuting bar owners who sell alcohol to patrons who are caught in DUI accidents, which you mention, but it’d have to be passed at the state level, likely, and would mostly definitely impact other industries. Suing a bartender for serving alcohol is also a bit much.But many states already have some form of law that hold bars liable for over serving people who then cause injury to a third party.
New York (CNN Business)Walmart is taking down displays of violent video games in its stores in the wake of recent shootings.
Does walmart still sell guns?
But the company plans to still sell the controversial video games -- and guns.
The change in policy does not apply to the sale or display of actual firearms. As the nation's largest retailer, Walmart is also one of the largest sellers of guns and ammunition in the world.
I hope Trump ends up causing legislative action against violent videogames for the fuckery tbh #NoNintexHe's too busy with more important matters such as drafting an executive order on Twitter and Facebook censorship :like
I hope Trump ends up causing legislative action against violent videogames for the fuckery tbh #NoNintex
Does walmart still sell guns?
That's the literal next line in the link I posted, so yes.QuoteBut the company plans to still sell the controversial video games -- and guns.
The change in policy does not apply to the sale or display of actual firearms. As the nation's largest retailer, Walmart is also one of the largest sellers of guns and ammunition in the world.
I hope Trump ends up causing legislative action against violent videogames for the fuckery tbh #NoNintex
A 65-year-old man who tackled a gunman who stormed a mosque in Norway is being hailed as a hero.
pussy-ass rightwingers can't even take down an active shooter without a gun :lol
https://twitter.com/mazmhussain/status/1160944221651656705
Kid looks like he went a round with Tyson.
https://www.hrc.org/blog/hrc-mourns-jordan-cofer-one-of-nine-victims-killed-in-dayton-mass-shooting
Interesting, if true. I can't find a reliable news source.
gunman-large-hijacked-mail-truck-shooting-random-peopleThat title.... are these things randomly generated now?
Ya. To speculate - which I really shouldn't be doing - it sounds like a new strategy to kill more people. Wouldn't be surprised if we find out they posted on 4 chan etc about kill counts.It reminds me of those ISIS snuff films from way back. They would hit the highway's with AK 47's and shoot at cars of police and Assad's military officers and officials on leave.
In the past 2 days Nintex has rooted for space nazis and casually dropped he watched ISIS snuff films.Also watched a video of one of Assad's tanks trying to navigate through a destroyed city and horribly failing at it.
...do you think that post made you look better?no but since you were interested I wanted to give you some background.
In the past 2 days Nintex has rooted for space nazis and casually dropped he watched ISIS snuff films.Also watched a video of one of Assad's tanks trying to navigate through a destroyed city and horribly failing at it.
It basically popped up on the same channels as the war in Ukraine raging on the side of the continent.
MSM(in Kiev): "Today we're not seeing any fighting at the front"
Meanwhile on YouTube the biggest tank battle since WW2 on the Donetsk front.
There was this account conflictnews or whatever that had loads of this stuff from both Syria and Ukraine.
It was mostly the military engagements though (so rebels blowing up tanks, bases, shooting at cars or US air strikes that sort of shit) and none of the beheadings, drowning people in cages etc. .
It bored me rather quickly though only the weird music sort of stuck as a running gag when me and my buddies played Battlefield 4.
Honestly never would have thought Walmart would even do that much :leon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaVMpU32eK8&feature=youtu.be
I cri evertiem this thread gets bumped. :-\
Former NBC Chairman Bob Wright, a longtime friend and associate of President Trump’s, has briefed top officials, including the president, the vice president and Ivanka Trump, on a proposal to create a new research agency called HARPA to come up with out-of-the-box ways to tackle health problems, much like DARPA does for the military, say several people who have briefed.
Advisers to Wright quickly pulled together a three-page proposal -- called SAFEHOME for Stopping Aberrant Fatal Events by Helping Overcome Mental Extremes – which calls for exploring whether technology like phones and smart watches can be used to detect when mentally ill people are about to turn violent.
“To those who say this is a half-baked idea, I would say, ‘what’s your idea? What are you doing about this?’ ” said Geoffrey Ling, the lead scientific adviser on the HARPA proposal.
Bstroy, an Atlanta-based streetwear fashion brand that I’ve never heard of until this morning because that’s how these things work, posted their Fashion Week offerings on Instagram on Monday, which included four images of models in hoodies featuring the names of mass school shootings where real people died.
The four hoodies posted on social media have the school names “Stoneman Douglas,” “Columbine,” “Sandy Hook,” and “Virginia Tech” emblazoned across the front and also feature artful holes, presumably bullet holes, curated across the school logos. The multi-colored commodification of school shootings. How meaningful.
Where is my Ecole Polytechnique bunnyhug?
The game has been suspended
(https://i.redd.it/bxkl77t83je31.jpg)
Hebrew Israelite movement:trumps
what the fuck is wrong with the US right now?
what the fuck is wrong with the US right now? So many shootings of late, chill it's the holiday season.
https://splinternews.com/streetwear-brand-debuts-school-shooting-themed-line-of-1838178596QuoteBstroy, an Atlanta-based streetwear fashion brand that I’ve never heard of until this morning because that’s how these things work, posted their Fashion Week offerings on Instagram on Monday, which included four images of models in hoodies featuring the names of mass school shootings where real people died.
The four hoodies posted on social media have the school names “Stoneman Douglas,” “Columbine,” “Sandy Hook,” and “Virginia Tech” emblazoned across the front and also feature artful holes, presumably bullet holes, curated across the school logos. The multi-colored commodification of school shootings. How meaningful.
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--ssyPv16H--/c_fit,dpr_2.0,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/jpsq6tljaoyulfftqa3w.png)
To think that so many people legitimately stand up for this kid. To the point where he can make 2 million dollar bail...
This is starting to shape up into another George Zimmerman bullshit fiasco.
The Fedex shooter was a brony :deadhttp://www.thebore.com/forum/index.php?topic=45482.msg2992329#msg2992329
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EzPd6zNUcAgMgft?format=jpg)
In his final YouTube video prior to the shooting, Davison compared himself to the main character from the film The Terminator.
"Despite reaching almost total system failure, he keeps trying to accomplish his mission," Davison said.
“The NHS basically said they are short staffed and that was it,” the friend wrote. “The family even asked the police to come out to see him… they didn’t do a welfare check. And now six people are dead.”
Officers did confirm that Davison was a licensed gun owner and said witnesses saw him wielding a “pump-action shotgun.”
QuoteIn his final YouTube video prior to the shooting, Davison compared himself to the main character from the film The Terminator.
"Despite reaching almost total system failure, he keeps trying to accomplish his mission," Davison said.
wth is this normie talking about, the main character in Terminator is Kyle Reese.
They're saying he had the n-word written on his gun and that the whole shooting might be race-related.
They're saying he had the n-word written on his gun and that the whole shooting might be race-related.There's no "might".
Also planned it all out on Discord. What a surprise, discord harboring sex offenders and shooters...and even worse, effeminate former video game message board moderators!
These situations keep getting more obvious and ridiculous, so I thought you were serious about the n-word on his gun. :(He was serious.
These situations keep getting more obvious and ridiculous, so I thought you were serious about the n-word on his gun. :(
I'm afraid that after 2 years of lockdown that pushed many troubled souls to a very dark place more of these kiddo's will snap.
There's more of these things happening.I'm afraid that after 2 years of lockdown that pushed many troubled souls to a very dark place more of these kiddo's will snap.
Covid definitely retroactively influenced mass shootings.
Weirdo shot his grandma, got into a shoot out with the police and then entered the school.spoiler (click to show/hide)(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FTjf5S8WAAAmsOR?format=jpg)[close]
It's definitely the guns' fault and not the fault of a fucked up society that glorifies violence and provides fuck all mental health care. Definitely...
There's more of these things happening.There's not. Happy to help.
I mean, in the case of the US, sure. The types of guns and the ease of access is part of the problem. However, when you have a culture which says that a valid reason to own a gun is to defend yourself against someone else who owns a gun, then I think your cultural problem is much worse.It's definitely the guns' fault and not the fault of a fucked up society that glorifies violence and provides fuck all mental health care. Definitely...
Why not both?
I need to stop doomscrolling.
America just feels so fucked right now. We should’ve acted after Sandy Hook. We won’t do anything now. The percentage of Americans who favor stricter gun control has fallen from 60% to 53% in the last two years. I recall when it was over 80%, but it was some time ago, and I have no link nor frame of reference for the figure.
We should figure out how to prevent this.
One tweet observed, “we are sending our children to school during a pandemic so they can practice active shooter drills in their classrooms.”
Madness.
The percentage of Americans who favor stricter gun control has fallen from 60% to 53% in the last two years. I recall when it was over 80%, but it was some time ago, and I have no link nor frame of reference for the figure.Polling about anything vague and nebulous isn't very useful. Once you start getting specific on almost any issue polling will collapse. And then to achieve that now specific legislation you have to move it past interested constituencies instead of people who don't actually care about the issue.
Still doesn't quite make up for the fact that the TX asshole was encountered by police but they failed to prevent him from going into the school. If the-police-with-guns can't stop a bad guy, the good-guy-with-gun theory kinda falls to shit.
Police prevented another such event from happening.I love how this guy hosts a podcast called "No Lie" but constantly tweets misinformation. (And Nintex and all the replies just repeat it and don't even read his tweet that contains the actual police press release.)
Dude with an AK-47.
I thought of an adequate example: background checks. If you ask someone "do you support background checks?" it allows them to not only imagine what system they might favor but also relies on their knowledge of the current system. Some people support the current national background check system. Other people want your record to disappear when your sentence is up. Other people want drug crimes included. Other people want a system where no one will ever be approved to own a gun. Other people want private medical records included so that anyone who has ever had a mental health diagnosis can be stripped of rights.
It doesn't really matter here what you personally support, by not specifying the details, it results in a suspiciously high polling number. I would imagine a large number of respondents are simply assuming it means an "expert" or a computer looks at some kind of "background record" and determines if it's a future bad guy or not. Then the media and politicians run around pointing to the polling result while demanding "something must be done and this is something" and profiting from it until it's time to actually sit down and decide what the system should actually look like and whether or not what they're personally imagining while touting the obvious consensus for their own personal views would be an egregious violation of the law or even possible to achieve.
If parents (especially Texan parents) stormed in to the school with guns blazing, I imagine the friendly fire casualty list would have been much worse than what the shooter did.
Of course they weren't thinking straight, which is exactly why the police needed to prevent them from going in to the school.If parents (especially Texan parents) stormed in to the school with guns blazing, I imagine the friendly fire casualty list would have been much worse than what the shooter did.
While this storming the school is a bad idea, maybe you should consider that they were not thinking straight given that their children were getting killed and the police appear (to them) not doing anything.
Also, I dunno, they are probably not going to shoot the children like the shooter, dude. Calm you conservative side for once, Jesus.
Of course they weren't thinking straight, which is exactly why the police needed to prevent them from going in to the school.If parents (especially Texan parents) stormed in to the school with guns blazing, I imagine the friendly fire casualty list would have been much worse than what the shooter did.
While this storming the school is a bad idea, maybe you should consider that they were not thinking straight given that their children were getting killed and the police appear (to them) not doing anything.
Also, I dunno, they are probably not going to shoot the children like the shooter, dude. Calm you conservative side for once, Jesus.
The last thing anyone needed was more guns in there.
Not sure what calming my "conservative side" would do here, but it's certainly not US conservatives who are arguing that armed parents shouldn't be entering the school to have a gunfight with a teenager while kids are hiding in classrooms.
Untrained people having gunfights WILL result in innocent bystanders getting shot.
https://mobile.twitter.com/paleofuture/status/1529669808228294656
https://twitter.com/paleofuture/status/1529652093354536961?
It's not tasteless, it's the truth. Sending armed, untrained, highly emotional people into that sort of high stress situation is going to end in disaster. If you don't think that, you're being naive at best.Of course they weren't thinking straight, which is exactly why the police needed to prevent them from going in to the school.If parents (especially Texan parents) stormed in to the school with guns blazing, I imagine the friendly fire casualty list would have been much worse than what the shooter did.
While this storming the school is a bad idea, maybe you should consider that they were not thinking straight given that their children were getting killed and the police appear (to them) not doing anything.
Also, I dunno, they are probably not going to shoot the children like the shooter, dude. Calm you conservative side for once, Jesus.
The last thing anyone needed was more guns in there.
Not sure what calming my "conservative side" would do here, but it's certainly not US conservatives who are arguing that armed parents shouldn't be entering the school to have a gunfight with a teenager while kids are hiding in classrooms.
Untrained people having gunfights WILL result in innocent bystanders getting shot.
Is just tasteless to essentially they were going to kill more children than the child murderer.
It's not tasteless, it's the truth. Sending armed, untrained, highly emotional people into that sort of high stress situation is going to end in disaster. If you don't think that, you're being naive at best.Of course they weren't thinking straight, which is exactly why the police needed to prevent them from going in to the school.If parents (especially Texan parents) stormed in to the school with guns blazing, I imagine the friendly fire casualty list would have been much worse than what the shooter did.
While this storming the school is a bad idea, maybe you should consider that they were not thinking straight given that their children were getting killed and the police appear (to them) not doing anything.
Also, I dunno, they are probably not going to shoot the children like the shooter, dude. Calm you conservative side for once, Jesus.
The last thing anyone needed was more guns in there.
Not sure what calming my "conservative side" would do here, but it's certainly not US conservatives who are arguing that armed parents shouldn't be entering the school to have a gunfight with a teenager while kids are hiding in classrooms.
Untrained people having gunfights WILL result in innocent bystanders getting shot.
Is just tasteless to essentially they were going to kill more children than the child murderer.
Police prevented another such event from happening.
Dude with an AK-47.
https://twitter.com/briantylercohen/status/1529581917216993280 (https://twitter.com/briantylercohen/status/1529581917216993280)
"The Heat urges you to contact your state senators by calling 202-224-3121 to leave a message demanding their support for common sense gun laws," the stadium announcer said as the team geared up to play the Boston Celtics in Game 5 of the teams' playoff series.
It's not tasteless, it's the truth. Sending armed, untrained, highly emotional people into that sort of high stress situation is going to end in disaster. If you don't think that, you're being naive at best.Of course they weren't thinking straight, which is exactly why the police needed to prevent them from going in to the school.If parents (especially Texan parents) stormed in to the school with guns blazing, I imagine the friendly fire casualty list would have been much worse than what the shooter did.
While this storming the school is a bad idea, maybe you should consider that they were not thinking straight given that their children were getting killed and the police appear (to them) not doing anything.
Also, I dunno, they are probably not going to shoot the children like the shooter, dude. Calm you conservative side for once, Jesus.
The last thing anyone needed was more guns in there.
Not sure what calming my "conservative side" would do here, but it's certainly not US conservatives who are arguing that armed parents shouldn't be entering the school to have a gunfight with a teenager while kids are hiding in classrooms.
Untrained people having gunfights WILL result in innocent bystanders getting shot.
Is just tasteless to essentially they were going to kill more children than the child murderer.
https://www.newsweek.com/salvador-ramos-arrested-4-years-ago-planning-attack-when-he-turned-18-1710867
If this is true, which it might not be, but if it's true... YIKES!
"But if law enforcement, you know, identified him four years ago as a threat, we need to figure out why he wasn't – you know, how he got removed from that."
https://www.newsweek.com/salvador-ramos-arrested-4-years-ago-planning-attack-when-he-turned-18-1710867
If this is true, which it might not be, but if it's true... YIKES!
I've been chuckling to myself at emo soy joker for 20 mins :tocryThat was the whole point of the post tbh :trumps
So they outright admited they fucked up.
https://www.npr.org/2022/05/27/1101754167/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-police-mistakes
:hesrightTo be fair, cops get similar standards despite regularly claiming knowing the law is too hard for them to process.
https://twitter.com/saribethrose/status/1530521206377562115
:hesright
Ways to make you look like you did everything perfect:
https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1531746408000368648
How come whenever there is a mass shooting the shooter looks exactly like the kind of guy who would commit a mass shooting?
The Illinois shooter was a Trump and Shapiro fan who had an extensive social media record basically laying out today.
Fbi is completely useless
The Illinois shooter was a Trump and Shapiro fan who had an extensive social media record basically laying out today.
Fbi is completely useless
I mean, what are they supposed to do, read all of twatter, fakebook, and instasham daily?