THE BORE

General => The Superdeep Borehole => Topic started by: Kara on October 08, 2018, 01:02:58 PM

Title: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on October 08, 2018, 01:02:58 PM
https://twitter.com/dril/status/107911000199671808
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on October 08, 2018, 01:06:22 PM
https://twitter.com/SameeraKhan/status/1048613633947787264 (https://twitter.com/SameeraKhan/status/1048613633947787264)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Momo on October 08, 2018, 01:07:48 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/tDW0pFM.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on October 08, 2018, 01:34:10 PM
You misspelled "Laissez's Faire", hth
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on October 08, 2018, 01:37:59 PM
You misspelled "Laissez's Faire", hth

 :shh
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on October 08, 2018, 01:52:01 PM
Rationalizing a political pasting on the grounds that it's energized the base / set the stage for something better is not advised in general, but especially not so when there's a looming recession that's going to be bad for everyone without obscene wealth.
says the revolutionary socialist who believes in accelerationism  :ussrcry

I believe those are mutually exclusive categorizations, but that's for another thread probably.
if you have the time/patience, please do make a thread on that as i am struggling to get my head around it, especially the tech component

Don't know about accelerationists in tech, but an accelerationist as I would use the term posits that capitalism will destroy itself eventually because it contains the seeds of its own destruction within it so accelerating its development is a realistic way of bringing about its collapse. (For a variety of reasons depending on the ideology of the accelerationist, e.g. tendency of the rate of profit to fall, dialectical materialism, inability to live in peace, whatever it is right wing accelerationists believe.)

Revolutionary socialists are one side of an old argument about how to build socialism. Necessarily they have taken the position that capitalism will not collapse into socialism per se and there has to be a roadmap to get there. The 20th century fascist phase provided an explicit example of something else that could be born from capitalism's ashes instead.

Lenin said that socialists should participate in bourgeois governments to demonstrate their dysfunction to the proletariat (in the case of the Russian Revolution at least) as part of building political power. I suppose there's something vaguely accelerationist in that but the notion that Leninism and its various lines are accelerationist is prima facie absurd.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: seagrams hotsauce on October 08, 2018, 02:00:34 PM
Laissez-faire
(https://harvardmagazine.com/sites/default/files/styles/4x3_main/public/img/article/1009/1109_AR02.jpg?itok=XVGkzRzD)
 :nope


Ren Faire
(https://localtvktvi.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/ren-faire-2015-069.jpg?quality=85&strip=all&w=800)
:ohyeah
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: I'm a Puppy! on October 08, 2018, 02:19:48 PM
You misspelled "Laissez's Faire", hth
If the market cared, it would've fixed it.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on October 08, 2018, 03:44:31 PM

Don't know about accelerationists in tech, but an accelerationist as I would use the term posits that capitalism will destroy itself eventually because it contains the seeds of its own destruction within it so accelerating its development is a realistic way of bringing about its collapse. (For a variety of reasons depending on the ideology of the accelerationist, e.g. tendency of the rate of profit to fall, dialectical materialism, inability to live in peace, whatever it is right wing accelerationists believe.)

Revolutionary socialists are one side of an old argument about how to build socialism. Necessarily they have taken the position that capitalism will not collapse into socialism per se and there has to be a roadmap to get there. The 20th century fascist phase provided an explicit example of something else that could be born from capitalism's ashes instead.

Lenin said that socialists should participate in bourgeois governments to demonstrate their dysfunction to the proletariat (in the case of the Russian Revolution at least) as part of building political power. I suppose there's something vaguely accelerationist in that but the notion that Leninism and its various lines are accelerationist is prima facie absurd.
ok so i'm with you as far as the first paragraph (although no idea as to the timeframe of this or why capitalism won't evolve/display some sort of self-preservation). the tech stuff comes from what little i've read of nick land's blog, which admittedly to me is largely word soup and makes me think i'm having a stroke (capital is sentient? what?) but apparently not only will some ai come along and rule all, sooner than we think, but it is somehow already engineering its own dominance?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on October 08, 2018, 05:39:30 PM
The obvious historical example is the transition from feudalism to capitalism: landlords didn't disappear, they merely became a faction of the bourgeoisie.

I'm not terribly familiar with Land so I can't help you there.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on October 09, 2018, 01:48:09 AM
The obvious historical example is the transition from feudalism to capitalism: landlords didn't disappear, they merely became a faction of the bourgeoisie.

I'm not terribly familiar with Land so I can't help you there.
fair enough, i guess this is what happens when you rely on twitter! so your concrete example makes complete sense to me but the way some people tweet about it you think there's going to be michael bay-esque explosions everywhere.

if you have any recommendations on further reading i'd really appreciate it; i'm going to go back and re-read ze germans because i've forgotten it all
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on October 17, 2018, 03:19:38 AM
while not working i found a reader on the topic https://libcom.org/library/accelerate-accelerationist-reader (https://libcom.org/library/accelerate-accelerationist-reader)

Quote
Accelerationism is the name of a contemporary political heresy: the insistence that the only radical political response to capitalism is not to protest, disrupt, critique, or détourne it, but to accelerate and exacerbate its uprooting, alienating, decoding, abstractive tendencies.

#Accelerate presents a genealogy of accelerationism, tracking the impulse through 90s UK darkside cyberculture and the theory-fictions of Nick Land, Sadie Plant, Iain Grant, and CCRU, across the cultural underground of the 80s (rave, acid house, SF cinema) and back to its sources in delirious post-68 ferment, in texts whose searing nihilistic jouissance would later be disavowed by their authors and the marxist and academic establishment alike.

On either side of this central sequence, the book includes texts by Marx that call attention to his own ‘Prometheanism’, and key works from recent years document the recent extraordinary emergence of new accelerationisms steeled against the onslaughts of neoliberal capitalist realism, and retooled for the twenty-first century.

At the forefront of the energetic contemporary debate around this disputed, problematic term, #Accelerate activates a historical conversation about futurality, technology, politics, enjoyment and capital. This is a legacy shot through with contradictions, yet urgently galvanized today by the poverty of ‘reasonable’ contemporary political alternatives.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on October 17, 2018, 04:48:22 PM
Accelerationism is I believe what Toyota's cars were accused of having as a serious problem, even though from my understanding it could not truly be replicated in multiple studies except through human user error.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on October 17, 2018, 04:52:54 PM
while not working i found a reader on the topic https://libcom.org/library/accelerate-accelerationist-reader (https://libcom.org/library/accelerate-accelerationist-reader)

Quote
Accelerationism is the name of a contemporary political heresy: the insistence that the only radical political response to capitalism is not to protest, disrupt, critique, or détourne it, but to accelerate and exacerbate its uprooting, alienating, decoding, abstractive tendencies.

#Accelerate presents a genealogy of accelerationism, tracking the impulse through 90s UK darkside cyberculture and the theory-fictions of Nick Land, Sadie Plant, Iain Grant, and CCRU, across the cultural underground of the 80s (rave, acid house, SF cinema) and back to its sources in delirious post-68 ferment, in texts whose searing nihilistic jouissance would later be disavowed by their authors and the marxist and academic establishment alike.

On either side of this central sequence, the book includes texts by Marx that call attention to his own ‘Prometheanism’, and key works from recent years document the recent extraordinary emergence of new accelerationisms steeled against the onslaughts of neoliberal capitalist realism, and retooled for the twenty-first century.

At the forefront of the energetic contemporary debate around this disputed, problematic term, #Accelerate activates a historical conversation about futurality, technology, politics, enjoyment and capital. This is a legacy shot through with contradictions, yet urgently galvanized today by the poverty of ‘reasonable’ contemporary political alternatives.

sounds like a load of shit tbh
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on October 17, 2018, 10:14:05 PM
Is this the dialectic
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on October 17, 2018, 11:51:32 PM
I stopped playing Canadian Threshold when I stopped playing Legacy. Given my general unsuitability for marriage it's the closest I'll ever come to going through a divorce. :'(

I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night draft Gnarlwood Dryad (https://scryfall.com/card/emn/159/gnarlwood-dryad) far too highly in some guy at my local game shop's cube (https://mtg.gamepedia.com/Cube_Draft) the other week solely because it's a bad Nimble Mongoose (https://scryfall.com/card/ody/258/nimble-mongoose) though.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Trent Dole on October 18, 2018, 03:16:55 AM
Is this the dialectic
By L Ron Hubbard
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on October 18, 2018, 03:40:03 AM
Is this the dialectic
not all that shines is aufhebung
spoiler (click to show/hide)
i got nothing
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on October 19, 2018, 11:51:38 AM
https://www.teenvogue.com/story/what-capitalism-is/

Teen Vogue's is back baby. It's good again. Awoouu (wolf Howl).
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on October 19, 2018, 02:28:22 PM
Is this the dialectic
spoiler (click to show/hide)
i got nothing
[close]
less than nothing?(https://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/youngsabu.png)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on October 20, 2018, 05:26:23 PM
This thread has inspired me to become an Expert™ in Xi Jingping's Thoughts® on Socialism℠. Courses like this are increasingly becoming mandatory in Chinese universities so naturally it must be a critical part of socialist theory.

https://www.edx.org/course/xi-jinpings-thought-on-socialism-with-chinese-characteristics-for-a-new-era

I am now enrolled, but act fast - the course expires on October 25th!



† The thread was the primary motivator, but also, this morning, I bit into what I presumed is a piece of eggshell in my cookie, and I'm going to go ahead and blame capitalism for that.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on October 20, 2018, 05:42:08 PM
[Goon Project] let's read the Governance of China
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on October 20, 2018, 05:46:53 PM
57% liked this book
Google users

I think that counts as "certified fresh"?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on October 21, 2018, 01:36:27 PM
This school's correspondence courses seem p. legit ngl.

https://youtu.be/Q3rLzAHj1Jo
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on October 21, 2018, 03:41:41 PM
Crash, found some Madden memes you might like.

(http://i.imgur.com/lcAkJd5.gif)

(http://i.imgur.com/hL8o7jf.gif)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Trent Dole on October 22, 2018, 01:46:26 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09vVF-Hvykg
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on October 22, 2018, 03:59:31 PM
Is this the dialectic
not all that shines is aufhebung
spoiler (click to show/hide)
i got nothing
[close]

You became having got being
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on October 22, 2018, 06:57:34 PM
https://twitter.com/Ahmadinejad1956/status/1054013451033628677
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Madrun Badrun on October 22, 2018, 07:01:57 PM
(https://preview.redd.it/w3nxz7zwprt11.jpg?width=629&auto=webp&s=37c8e2e78735f71248e1900a13f8bef20a1d7f4a)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: sphagnum on October 22, 2018, 08:24:58 PM
You misspelled "Laissez's Faire", hth

I miss it every day
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on October 24, 2018, 02:41:31 AM
Crash, found some Madden memes you might like.

(http://i.imgur.com/lcAkJd5.gif)

(http://i.imgur.com/hL8o7jf.gif)
:dead @ that second gif
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on October 24, 2018, 01:15:33 PM
https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/The-Opportunity-Costs-of-Socialism.pdf

https://twitter.com/JStein_WaPo/status/1054746267346178049

(https://i.imgur.com/xzK9nty.png)

Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on October 24, 2018, 05:47:17 PM
shameless post stealing here but their definition of socialism is better than you'd expect given the source:

Quote
1 Criterion a is from the Oxford English Dictionary, which defines socialism as public policy based on “a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.” Criterion b further focuses the discussion to rule out state ownership or regulation for other purposes, such as fighting a war. See also Samuelson and Nordhaus (1989, 833), who describe “democratic socialist governments [that] expanded the welfare state, nationalized industries, and planned the economy.”

2 For classical socialists, “communism” is a purely theoretical concept that has never yet been put into practice, which is why the second “S” in USSR stands for “Socialist.” Communism is, in their view, a social arrangement where there is neither a state nor private property; the abolition of property is not sufficient for communism. As Lenin explained, “The goal of socialism is communism.” The supposed purpose of the “Great Leap Forward” was for China to transition from socialism to communism before the USSR did (Dikӧtter 2010). The classical definition therefore stands in contrast to vernacular usage of communism to refer to historical instances of socialism where the degree of control was the highest, such as the USSR, Cuba, North Korea, or Maoist China. This report therefore avoids the term “communism.”
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: chronovore on October 24, 2018, 06:44:30 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09vVF-Hvykg

So the protagonist is Republican?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on October 24, 2018, 06:49:15 PM
Chairman Xi confirmed retro gamer, says modern games are trash (https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-10-24-steam-popularity-skyrockets-in-china-as-governments-freeze-on-new-game-approvals-continues)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: toku on October 24, 2018, 09:48:06 PM
https://twitter.com/Rhizzone_Txt/status/1026826041535356928
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on October 24, 2018, 11:11:01 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/6jy3KBw.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on October 24, 2018, 11:25:52 PM
https://twitter.com/Rhizzone_Txt/status/1026826041535356928

I've read the piece that's from (of course you have -ed.) It's an interesting artifact in that it was written by an American, though I'm not sure if I'd recommend it be consumed per se as it's quite hagiographical.

curly: I haven't dived into the report too much but it does have links to Marxists dot org in its citations which is slightly hilarious. Uncle Scam paying people to go to a neutral ground where facts and evidence, presented within the confines of civil, inclusive discourse, prevail through careful curation, smgdh.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on October 25, 2018, 04:11:46 AM
interesting article on application of mimetic theory to social media and how it lead to thiel knowing facebook would be successful: https://thesocietypages.org/cyborgology/2016/08/13/mimesis-violence-and-facebook-peter-thiels-french-connection-full-essay/
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on October 25, 2018, 06:02:09 AM
Patrick Bateman: Impressive. Very nice. Let's see Josip Tito's card.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/56/TitoCallingCard.jpg/640px-TitoCallingCard.jpg)

Patrick Bateman: [Thinking] Look at that subtle off-white coloring. The tasteful thickness of it. Oh, my God. It even has a watermark.
Luis Carruthers: Is something wrong, Patrick? You're sweating.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on October 25, 2018, 07:58:12 PM
https://twitter.com/TheCut/status/1055543031414341639

:cac
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on October 28, 2018, 02:40:25 AM
Quote
Grover Furr is the author of
 Khrushchev Lied. The Evidence That Every “Revelation” of Stalin’s (and Beria’s) Crimes in Nikita Khrushchev’s Infamous “Secret Speech” to the 20th Party Congress of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union on February 25, 1956, is Provably False (2011);

 The Murder of Sergei Kirov. History, Scholarship and the Anti-Stalin Paradigm (2013);

 Blood Lies: The Evidence that Every Accusation against Joseph Stalin and the Soviet Union in Timothy Snyder’s Bloodlands Is False (2014);

 Trotsky’s “Amalgams.” Trotsky’s Lies, The Moscow Trials As Evidence, The Dewey Commission. (Trotsky’s Conspiracies of the 1930s, Volume One) (2015);

 Yezhov vs. Stalin: The Truth About Mass Repressions and the So-Called ‘Great Terror’ in the USSR (2016),
 
 Leon Trotsky’s Collaboration with Germany and Japan. (Trotsky's Conspiracies of the 1930s, Volume Two) (2017)
are all available on Amazon.com.
this guys bibliography is so spicy :whew


stealth edit to add:
Quote from: Grover Furr
I have spent many years researching this and similar questions and I have yet to find one crime that Stalin committed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRPTZF5zSLQ
 :delicious
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on October 28, 2018, 02:45:31 AM
Kind of surprised you've never heard of Furr before.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on October 28, 2018, 02:49:24 AM
Realized I have after checking out his homepage, just didn't know his name:
https://msuweb.montclair.edu/~furrg/

I love professors whose websites look like this but they continue updating them well into this decade.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on October 28, 2018, 02:54:03 AM
The fact that he does not seem to have an extensive review for the film The Death of Stalin makes my soul feel empty.

But looking to see if he had one did lead me to this, which was fun: https://espressostalinist.com/2016/06/09/why-does-the-pseudo-left-hate-grover-furr/
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on October 28, 2018, 03:00:55 AM
https://espressostalinist.com/2018/08/13/molotov-on-mao/

wow more things that Joe and his crony moderator Great Rumbler is covering up?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on October 28, 2018, 03:07:58 AM
thankfully with etoliate no longer here to hand me L's I can engage in this Stalinist triumphalism :rejoice

spoiler (click to show/hide)
i'm now down the rabbit hole into Douglas Tottle's Fraud, Famine, and Fascism: The Ukrainian Genocide Myth from Hitler to Harvard Kara :doge

wait...Furr is the one who posted this PDF after Tottle disappeared with Furr claiming he died though no obituary has been found? Did Furr kill Tottle? Tottle was stupid, Furr was lucky, Furr would visit him soon?
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on October 28, 2018, 05:22:53 AM
Only heroes could read Das Kapital.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Trent Dole on October 28, 2018, 03:57:14 PM
thankfully with etoliate no longer here to hand me L's I can engage in this Stalinist triumphalism :rejoice

spoiler (click to show/hide)
i'm now down the rabbit hole into Douglas Tottle's Fraud, Famine, and Fascism: The Ukrainian Genocide Myth from Hitler to Harvard Kara :doge

wait...Furr is the one who posted this PDF after Tottle disappeared with Furr claiming he died though no obituary has been found? Did Furr kill Tottle? Tottle was stupid, Furr was lucky, Furr would visit him soon?
[close]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGUfyqe7PAk
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on October 29, 2018, 04:41:16 AM
https://twitter.com/psythor/status/1056811593177227264?s=11 (https://twitter.com/psythor/status/1056811593177227264?s=11)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on October 29, 2018, 04:45:48 AM
https://twitter.com/psythor/status/1056811593177227264?s=11 (https://twitter.com/psythor/status/1056811593177227264?s=11)
Nothing new:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHSPf6x1Fdo
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: sphagnum on October 29, 2018, 10:45:34 PM
READ SETTLERS
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on November 09, 2018, 05:45:54 AM
Reading the Official Tomes of Objectivism from the Rand Cult Leaders :nope

Reading Comments from Objectivists defending Eternal Chairman Rand :ohyeah

Quote
David Wall| April 11 @ 5:41AM|#

The biggest villains in AS--Jim Taggart and the Starns heirs--are also "billionaires". You can be sure a smear is coming when self-styled Rand critiques ignore this and go for their favorite class warfare theme to discredit Rand's work.

By the way, libertarians that seem to want to establish their more sophisticated, grown-up cred by saying they out-grew Rand are indicating a phoniness and lack of philosophic seriousness as much as the smear-mongering leftists--IMHO. Ye, hardly know her, or you wouldn't embarrass yourself with such comments.

Atlas Shrugged is the greatest philosophically complete pieces of fiction written. The more you understand what the woman accomplished with this work, the more foolish offhand ad hominems of it sound. Criticisms of AS reflect volumes more about the person making the criticism than the object of the criticism.
Quote
David Wall| April 11 @ 1:03PM|#

Don't worry about them. Such people won't make a damn bit of difference anyway. It is an intellectual war. The trenches of this war are amongst the professional intellectuals--academics and higher level journalist and commentators. The enemy they know they can't beat is Ayn Rand if it is a fair fight, but they might beat her through an intellectually unprepared enemy like the libertarians who are closely associated with her for better or worse.

The libertarians will soon have the full attention of the leftist intellectuals if these Mid-terms elections go like they now look like they might.

Then, the folks who need to know who they are, are the libertarians themselves. They better have their intellectual armor on and not be sitting on the fence about Ayn Rand. Because their enemies will force libertarians to own Ayn Rand or deny her. If they deny her, all of us lose and libertarianism will go into the ash bin of history just like the Repubs are likely to go. If they own her, they've got a chance to take a leading role in America's comeback. Even the Millennials know the way we are going cannot go on--it either breaks good or breaks really bad from here.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on November 11, 2018, 02:49:33 AM
didn't know there was still a rand defence force in 2018, what's their take on sears going bust?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on November 26, 2018, 10:11:52 PM
https://twitter.com/BostonJoan/status/1067227202050318336
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on November 26, 2018, 10:23:02 PM
is this the right thread for this? i don't care
(https://scontent.flas1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/46501142_316348532427642_3166434161888067584_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_ht=scontent.flas1-1.fna&oh=228cb3ee2eca856b30b8dcc65c910e1e&oe=5CA566E4)

and reading that thread led me to this amazing story from 2016
Albuquerque Police Release Video Showing Officer Shooting Undercover Cop (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/albuquerque-police-release-video-showing-officer-shooting-undercover-cop-n549461)
Quote
"I didn't know it was you!" says Albuquerque Police Department Lt. Greg Brachle moments after putting at least eight bullets into APD Officer Jacob Grant in January 2015.

Video from Brachle's lapel shows him running up to a vehicle that Grant was sitting in with suspects and yelling "gun," then promptly firing his weapon.

"Oh s---, that was Jacob! F--- me!" Brachle is heard saying. "Are you OK?" Brachle asks Grant. "No," Grant answers.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on November 26, 2018, 10:24:02 PM
I read The Man Who Was Thursday too.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on November 26, 2018, 10:48:31 PM
I think that Tucker is actually wearing a complex face mesh like Black Widow did in the one Marvel movie. That's why every screencap of him returns the same facial expression. It's actually a function of advanced secret technology to return that image no matter what his actual expression is.

Prove me wrong.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on December 02, 2018, 05:34:05 PM
The Team Fortress 2 hat economist and the Bernie Bros are starting an International.

https://www.progressive-international.org/open-call/

:nope

(https://i.imgur.com/Sg986dn.jpg)

:ohyeah

Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on December 02, 2018, 05:37:17 PM
denounces "unfettered globalization". is this a nazi honeypot? also
Quote
Jane Sanders, co-Founder & Fellow
Guess that golden parachute wasn't enough for her  :money
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on December 02, 2018, 05:46:15 PM
Workers of the world, unite!

No, not like that! In a fettered manner!
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: chronovore on December 05, 2018, 07:58:42 AM
https://twitter.com/BostonJoan/status/1067227202050318336

Why is she wearing Wesley Crusher's sweater?
(https://i.imgur.com/xGfyk0S.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on December 20, 2018, 12:36:14 AM
finally! https://theoutline.com/post/6809/karl-marx-anime-china-bilibili?zd=1&zi=mtzfb4af (https://theoutline.com/post/6809/karl-marx-anime-china-bilibili?zd=1&zi=mtzfb4af)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on December 20, 2018, 07:15:08 PM
 :dead at Engels on the title card
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on December 23, 2018, 01:10:36 AM
pinning my hopes on this anime to dispel the myth that marx and engels were hardcore egalitarians tbh
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on December 23, 2018, 06:08:52 PM
sorry kara but

https://twitter.com/matthewaraven/status/1076736408864415744
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on December 26, 2018, 08:44:07 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/H7sJQG2.png)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on December 27, 2018, 02:43:32 AM
"I've bought copies of this book for my colleagues as well. I want them to understand socialism with Chinese characteristics." —Mark Zuckerberg, Founder & CEO, Facebook, 2014
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on January 03, 2019, 06:07:22 AM
I have discovered a secret map of the Brown-Red Fascist Alliance, this is actually an outdated version but the larger one cannot fit on a single Twitter account sized image without being illegible:
(https://i.imgur.com/LOgoDAS.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on January 03, 2019, 06:13:57 AM
i have uploaded the full updated secret document here, it will delete after 60 days!

https://docdro.id/zJankJ3
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on January 08, 2019, 08:12:20 PM
The fact that he does not seem to have an extensive review for the film The Death of Stalin makes my soul feel empty.

But looking to see if he had one did lead me to this, which was fun: https://espressostalinist.com/2016/06/09/why-does-the-pseudo-left-hate-grover-furr/

Just saw that movie last week, def enjoyed it, also made me fantasize about a TV miniseries adaptation of "Red Plenty" done as a sequel to it, with Steve Buscemi reprising his role as Khrushchev etc
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on January 12, 2019, 10:04:52 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/LnLllxY.jpg)

...shosta?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Rufus on January 12, 2019, 02:35:03 PM
Is that a sack full of Bitcoin?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on January 16, 2019, 01:24:29 AM
Yeah, I think it might be or at least some kind of cryptocurrency (and it makes sense), his accounts all got killed a while back, so this "larger" version on 4chan was the best I could dig up:
(https://i.4pcdn.org/pol/1545578058473.png)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on January 20, 2019, 10:05:44 PM
Žižec: How Mao would have evaluated the Yellow Vests (https://www.rt.com/op-ed/447155-zizek-yellow-vests-france/)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on January 23, 2019, 07:31:24 PM
sorry kara but

https://twitter.com/matthewaraven/status/1076736408864415744

DSA is descending into ridiculousness over his still unannounced 2020 run already. :lol

I'd say it's going to be a fun convention this year but the 2 big cliques voted to dissolve themselves last year and all we have now are baby libsocs shouting, "all power to the locals," not realizing that, "all power to the soviets," was a slogan to spur reluctant revolutionaries to take actual political power instead how they use it (American brain poison with socialist characteristics) and a reformed version of one of the 2 failed cliques.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on January 23, 2019, 08:12:37 PM
It's pretty amusing to see the Jacobin types get the faintest whiff of relevancy and immediately jettison anything that looks unfashionably radical.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on January 23, 2019, 09:06:52 PM
I thought Bhaskar was tolerable when he recently debated (https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/the-big-idea/2019/1/7/18167691/what-is-socialism-capitalism-sanders-warren) a guy who doesn't know about the extant debate in trade unionism between the service and organizing models even though he has books published on capitalism and gets an economics column in the newspaper that doesn't negatively report on Amazon.com owned by the guy who owns Amazon.com (no relation) for the amusement of Ezra "I can't believe Paul Ryan was a liar" Klein.

He asked questions like, "Define middle class," and, "How can you get money out of politics with public financing when public financing will be paid for with taxes paid by bourgeois?" and the guy was straight shook, then started ranting about how great the Communist Party of China and / or measuring poverty at 1.90 a day is when that stat is questionable. He didn't even do the wacky Chartalist "it's free real estate" routine!

That said it was pretty funny when the DSA Twitter account recently tweeted something that should have been tweeted from Jacobin's Twitter account because 1 person has access to both accounts.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on January 23, 2019, 09:33:30 PM
I'm to Pearlstein's first statement and it starts like this:
Quote
Ideas are important at such moments because those participating in the policy and political debates need a rationale to convince the country that disruptive change is necessary. That process often involves shedding old ideas that were useful and we thought were true in favor of other ideas that are useful and true. In the political marketplace, ideas matter in terms of the outcome, even if they were not the driving force. That’s different than saying that ideology or some ideological movement played a starring role.

So in the book, I lay out several of those ideas and why they are have been pushed so far that they are no longer useful or valid.
:dead
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on January 23, 2019, 09:36:00 PM
Quote
Our goal should be: Use all the tools available in a democratic society to convince a broad swath of the public — frontline workers, middle managers, professionals, executives, academics, journalists — that certain types of business behavior are no longer socially acceptable.

Unacceptable because they offend our moral sensibilities. Unacceptable because they are economically counterproductive. And unacceptable because they erode the trust and cooperation that are necessary for a successful capitalism, and a successful democracy.

Change the social norms in that way and the rules and laws naturally follow. That’s a goal that is more likely to be achieved, and more likely to be effective, than trying to change things by grabbing power and shoving a different set of rules and norms down everyone’s throats.
kara help
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on January 23, 2019, 09:39:01 PM
Quote
And while we are at it, why not create a new set of financial institutions — banks, insurance companies, mutual funds and pension funds — that are owned by their customers rather than by shareholders.
holy shit
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on January 23, 2019, 09:44:12 PM
the petty asshole in me wants to point out that Ezra should have probably noted that he's blurbed on the cover of the book:
Quote
"If anyone can save capitalism from the capitalists, it’s Steven Pearlstein. This lucid, brilliant book refuses to abandon capitalism to those who believe morality and justice irrelevant to an economic system." ―Ezra Klein, founder and editor-at-large, Vox
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on January 24, 2019, 03:16:24 AM
I love that he thinks MORE MORES will "fix" capitalism when, say, the Victorian era was rife with mores but the capitalism was so bad that it actually generated labor strife in the imperialist core (https://i.imgur.com/CLx6VTk.png).
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on January 24, 2019, 05:37:54 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuy_2Cq8HAA

 :salute
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on January 24, 2019, 05:51:26 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXTvh4kJOog

THE VIOLENCE OF THE STATE :brazilcry
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on January 25, 2019, 10:06:38 PM
When I read the Nicaragua statement I was like, "Who gave the Trots the car keys? smgdh," but then I read the Venezuela statement and I was like, "Marcyites? In my DSA? More likely than you might think." That bit at the end was straight out of an editorial in Liberation. :lol

https://www.dsausa.org/statements/dsa-statement-of-support-for-the-struggle-for-democracy-and-justice-in-nicaragua/
https://www.dsausa.org/statements/dsa-statement-on-us-intervention-in-venezuela/
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on January 25, 2019, 10:47:52 PM
Has The Bore talked about how Subway Jared is a sovereign citizen now? I feel like this might be the thread for that.



edit: also everyone should congratulate me for not making a cheap joke about certain ideological tendencies and views on the age of consent.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on January 25, 2019, 11:23:17 PM
No, please grace us with links.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on January 26, 2019, 12:01:18 AM
Didn't realize but it's over a year old now. He was representing himself in court and apparently heard about the whole thing from an inmate he met who filed a "friend of the court" brief for him.

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/2017/11/13/subway-jareds-self-filed-challenge-convictions-frivolous-and-shop-worn-judge-says/858187001/


He then requested that the judge recuse herself because, as the mother of two teen daughters, she is biased (she actually has one daughter in her mid-20's).

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/02/07/jared-fogle-judge-biased-because-she-has-teen-daughters/317945002/
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: chronovore on January 26, 2019, 01:01:16 AM
Didn't realize but it's over a year old now. He was representing himself in court and apparently heard about the whole thing from an inmate he met who filed a "friend of the court" brief for him.

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/2017/11/13/subway-jareds-self-filed-challenge-convictions-frivolous-and-shop-worn-judge-says/858187001/


He then requested that the judge recuse herself because, as the mother of two teen daughters, she is biased (she actually has one daughter in her mid-20's).

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/02/07/jared-fogle-judge-biased-because-she-has-teen-daughters/317945002/

That's gonna be pretty great. He'll add an additional 5 years of individual Contempt of Court charges due to ignorantly charging in to go head-to-head with people who actually understand how the legal system works.

:jared
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on January 26, 2019, 10:39:44 AM
This one weird trick to get out of jail for sex with underage girls even though you plead guilty! Judges hate him!
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on January 26, 2019, 01:01:19 PM
https://twitter.com/Marriott/status/1088964885109768197

https://qz.com/work/1530562/half-a-million-rank-and-file-marriott-employees-are-now-watching-for-sex-traffickers/amp/

Very cool that the U.S. government can't broadly restrict freedom of movement, and certainly not on the basis of something so unrelated to the one neat trick (national security) as gender, so they pass a specious crime bill and now businesses get to broadly restrict the freedom of movement on the basis of gender. I'm sure that's just a big coincidence!
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on January 27, 2019, 12:13:20 AM
He was representing himself in court and apparently heard about the whole thing from an inmate he met who filed a "friend of the court" brief for him.
That's gonna be pretty great. He'll add an additional 5 years of individual Contempt of Court charges due to ignorantly charging in to go head-to-head with people who actually understand how the legal system works.
I can't seem to find it on their site now so it might not have been Reason, but in any case some libertarian site did a story talking to some sovereign citizens in jail*, and one of them was a guy who was in for pretty much life, and after he got turned down twice for parole he started listening to the crazy guy in their cellblock and decided to do it just to fuck with the parole board. One of my few heroes in life.

*Apparently they are quite common in the northwest. Which probably is why the judges are so patient in the two videos of the Natural Living Man, common to deal with them.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: chronovore on January 28, 2019, 06:21:02 AM
He was representing himself in court and apparently heard about the whole thing from an inmate he met who filed a "friend of the court" brief for him.
That's gonna be pretty great. He'll add an additional 5 years of individual Contempt of Court charges due to ignorantly charging in to go head-to-head with people who actually understand how the legal system works.
I can't seem to find it on their site now so it might not have been Reason, but in any case some libertarian site did a story talking to some sovereign citizens in jail*, and one of them was a guy who was in for pretty much life, and after he got turned down twice for parole he started listening to the crazy guy in their cellblock and decided to do it just to fuck with the parole board. One of my few heroes in life.

*Apparently they are quite common in the northwest. Which probably is why the judges are so patient in the two videos of the Natural Living Man, common to deal with them.

I have yet to see a non-white guy claim to be a Sovereign Citizen. To me, it's the utter zenith of Mediocre, Lazy Thinking, White Dude Privilege.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on January 28, 2019, 06:31:11 AM
Wesley Snipes :ufup
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on January 29, 2019, 12:34:16 AM
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/meet-the-man-behind-a-third-of-whats-on-wikipedia/

V. cool that the CIA writes Wikipedia through a CBP employee. It's like they don't even bother anymore.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on January 29, 2019, 01:01:39 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/condiricenbeans/status/1090179806652583936
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on January 30, 2019, 02:01:33 PM
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/meet-the-man-behind-a-third-of-whats-on-wikipedia/

V. cool that the CIA writes Wikipedia through a CBP employee. It's like they don't even bother anymore.
Quote
The idea of making it all free fascinates me. My mother grew up in the Soviet Union
:drudge
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on January 31, 2019, 02:51:34 AM
I'm sure he's a real Alexandra Elbakyan.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on January 31, 2019, 03:00:33 AM
https://www.freep.com/story/news/2019/01/30/farmington-university-immigrant-arrests/2724992002/

Homeland Security Investigations created a fake university in benj-kun's neck of the squatter settler apartheid state we call home to generate a reason to arrest people who wanted to stay in the U.S. Elaborate!

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Imagining a better world where IRS Criminal Investigation and / or FinCEN do something similar but with fake financial planners and banks to catch big ticket tax evaders. :whew
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on January 31, 2019, 03:07:11 AM
https://www.straitstimes.com/world/despacito-singers-slam-venezuelas-maduro-for-illegal-use-of-song

:dead :dead :dead :dead :dead
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on January 31, 2019, 10:47:39 AM
spoiler (click to show/hide)
Imagining a better world where IRS Criminal Investigation and / or FinCEN do something similar but with fake financial planners and banks to catch big ticket tax evaders. :whew
[close]
to catch a predator, but with accountants instead of little girls
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on January 31, 2019, 01:53:42 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/4jdVOsA.jpg)

Tucker Carlson: Learn To Code

As the American service economy crumbled under Obama, leftists told the unemployed to “learn to code”. Now that they are unemployed, ex-journalists claim those that tell them to “learn to code” are guilty of “targeted harassment”.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on February 01, 2019, 03:27:32 AM
straight from the hotbed of the revolution, Salt Lake City

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2xgc5pPibM
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on February 01, 2019, 03:33:19 AM
http://www.revolutionarystudentsunion.com/

Website is way too fancy. Spooks confirmed.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on February 01, 2019, 03:39:03 AM
spooks you say? i found this on the charnel house blog
https://leftforum.org/events/zizek-delenda-est
Quote
Description:
Is Slavoj Zizek a US propaganda psyop? I want to ask my comrades on the left to consider the possibility. After years of research, I have come to the conclusion that Zizek is a charlatan posing as a "Stalinist" to both discredit communists by performing a caricature Bolshevik and simultaneously, to smuggle fascist ideas including old fashioned Aryan supremacism and 19th century race theory, back into public discourse disguised as radical left critique of liberalism. I will focus on how he exploits his radical left image to spread imperialist propaganda and disinformation. I'll trace the origins of the Zizek Industry to his first anointing by the New Left Review, then edited by (among others) Quentin Hoare and Branka Magas, Croatian Nationalists and Tudjman supporters and founders of the Bosnian Institute, as the Balkan Leftist who would initiate, in 1990, the dominant strain of imperialist propaganda about Yugoslavia, and yet further back to his career as an antiMarxist, antiCommunist "dissident" and Slovene ethnic nationalist. I will discuss the way he has influenced a generation to the point where now right wing and reactionary ideas as well as pure white house disinformation and propaganda are routinely packaged as hip "lefty" and "radical" thought.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on February 01, 2019, 03:40:32 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrEJW3INm58
Quote
A panel presented at Left Forum, May 31, 2014.
Speakers: Ethan Hallerman, Molly Klein.
Moderator: Jacob Levich
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on February 01, 2019, 03:44:45 AM
Could a dissident who helped bring down an actually existing socialist state be a psyop? Seems unlikely!
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on February 01, 2019, 03:48:50 AM
Quote
VIII. IMPERIALIST WAR & THE NEW AMERIKAN ORDER
1. G.I. Joe Defends His Supermarket
i was kinda hoping this was literally about G.I. Joe
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on February 01, 2019, 03:52:58 AM
"Let's talk about the author, J Sakai. J probably stands for something . . . I don't know what." Me neither, buddy!
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on February 01, 2019, 03:54:39 AM
the biography part of that video is amazing :lol
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on February 01, 2019, 03:56:38 AM
in the Zizek panel, Molly Klein doesn't start until 32 minutes in, but :whoo

how she feels about Zizek: :pacspit, wish Milosevic had cleansed you
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on February 01, 2019, 03:59:35 AM
RedKahina x benjipwns :lawd
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on February 01, 2019, 04:08:05 AM
"Lacanianism! Fuck me. I mean, say what you want about the tenets of Nietzscheism, Dude, at least it's an ethos." - Molly Klein, basically, with like a hundred extra words
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on February 01, 2019, 04:13:23 AM
Molly makes a very compelling case that Sandy is in fact a CIA operative
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on February 01, 2019, 04:17:21 AM
excuse me the correct term for Sandy's world view is "techno-fash"
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on February 01, 2019, 04:18:17 AM
teKKKno-fascionista
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on February 01, 2019, 04:18:20 AM
https://twitter.com/RedKahina/status/1018489076528439296
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on February 01, 2019, 04:20:20 AM
I share mutuals with her so I'm unfortunately quite familiar with a lot of this stuff.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on February 01, 2019, 04:20:34 AM
https://twitter.com/RedKahina/status/1090972387003256833

 :dead
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on February 01, 2019, 04:22:06 AM
cordeliers might be better actually, REDKAHINA is a bit too word saladly and prone to 30 part tweetstorms
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on February 01, 2019, 04:23:12 AM
https://twitter.com/cordeliers/status/1055865906763571201

https://twitter.com/cordeliers/status/643933291926712320

https://twitter.com/cordeliers/status/1090747586779275266
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on February 01, 2019, 04:27:37 AM
https://twitter.com/cordeliers/status/1081331473096036353

https://twitter.com/cordeliers/status/1090691492262436865

 :thinking no wonder the reactionaries of ResetERA.com love her so
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on February 01, 2019, 04:33:09 AM
https://twitter.com/cordeliers/status/1090314226743369728

i am getting way too into this, it's like when i discovered JASON UHRUE

"comprehensively appalling" :lawd
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on February 01, 2019, 04:34:37 AM
I told you!

RedKahina is the new hotness now, my good friend and ideological enemy benji.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on February 01, 2019, 04:46:41 AM
One day I will introduce you to the New Labourites I associate with, benji. New Labourites who are still New Labourites in 2019 are similar to unrepentant state socialists except their historical legacy is helping the U.S. kill a million people in Iraq, privatizing a bunch of public assets, and ensuring that the City of London occupies a similar space of bipartisan support in the U.K. that the defense industry occupies in the U.S.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on February 01, 2019, 05:01:23 AM
i came across this the other day
(http://i.imgur.com/KvoEabX.png)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on February 01, 2019, 03:27:57 PM
benji are you familiar with phil greaves

https://twitter.com/PhilGreaves01/status/772079807349792768
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on February 01, 2019, 03:31:07 PM
https://twitter.com/PhilGreaves01/status/1090604834997395456
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on February 01, 2019, 04:55:46 PM
the top app on the huawei app store is a foreign luxury goods shopping app called  小红书 :lol
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on February 01, 2019, 05:36:14 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/V8v2OEd.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on February 01, 2019, 05:37:50 PM
The PRC is wild, man. They have right wing Maoists, but not because socialism has achieved victory and the struggle is between better and ultra-leftism.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on February 01, 2019, 06:51:22 PM
The only conflict there can be in China is between hood and #blessed :doge
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on February 01, 2019, 09:11:56 PM
https://twitter.com/cordeliers/status/1090314226743369728

i am getting way too into this, it's like when i discovered JASON UHRUE

"comprehensively appalling" :lawd

My favorite tweeter associated with those folks is definitely @cuttlefish_btc https://twitter.com/cuttlefish_btc , some of the stuff he digs up is legitimately fascinating and insightful even if the top-level conspiratorial worldview he feeds it all into is, uh ... not in accordance with my bourgeois subjective utility function

edit: I guess he stopped tweeting over a year ago? bleh
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on February 01, 2019, 10:48:02 PM
so you're saying they got to him
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on February 11, 2019, 10:00:38 PM
(https://preview.redd.it/9r6okwtxyyf21.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=b41f968889da5e7fc06bd8c5593548c18a8358fb)

Michael Parenti vindicated
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on February 16, 2019, 04:28:28 AM
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/tim-eyman-under-investigation-in-theft-of-70-chair-from-office-depot/
Quote
Anti-tax activist Tim Eyman is under investigation in the theft of a $70 office chair from the entryway of a Lacey Office Depot on Wednesday.

Lacey Police referred the allegation to prosecutors for a possible misdemeanor theft charge after Office Depot employees noticed the chair was missing, reviewed surveillance video, recognized Eyman and called the police.

In the video, Eyman, wearing a bright red shirt saying “Let The Voters Decide,” can be seen circling around the store’s lobby, peering in various directions. He walks through the store’s anti-theft devices into the vestibule and sits in a rolling office chair that was displayed there. He reclines, spins around three times and then stands up and wheels the chair out of the store.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on February 17, 2019, 11:54:08 PM
Wesley Snipes :ufup

Typical benji going for the glitz and glamour instead of hustling for real world examples.

https://www.wate.com/news/local-news/-sovereign-citizen-convicted-of-biting-off-tip-of-knoxville-officer-s-thumb/1745848571
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on February 17, 2019, 11:57:22 PM
Revolutionary forces. :dead

https://incendiarynews.com/2019/02/04/workers-world-party-confronted-in-southeast-austin/
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on February 18, 2019, 06:17:05 AM
https://twitter.com/PDChina/status/1096221209010683904
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Rufus on February 18, 2019, 06:30:52 AM
https://twitter.com/SecularStrategy/status/1096449207068778497

:lol
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on February 22, 2019, 01:15:58 AM
Quote
That which is founded on falsehood cannot be right. Institutions founded on false principles cannot be other than false themselves.  This truth has been demonstrated by the bitter experience of ages and generations.

Among the falsest of political principles is the principle of the sovereignty of the people, the principle that all power issues from the people, and is based upon the national will–a principle which has unhappily become more firmly established since the time of the French Revolution.  Thence proceeds the theory of Parliamentarism, which, up to the present day, has deluded much of the so-called “intelligence,” and unhappily infatuated certain foolish Russians.  It continues to maintain its hold on many minds with the obstinacy of a narrow fanaticism, although every day its falsehood is exposed more clearly to the world.
Quote
By the theory of Parliamentarism, the rational majority must rule; in practice, the party is ruled by five or six of its leaders who exercise all power.  In theory, decisions are controlled by clear arguments in the course of Parliamentary debates; in practice, they in no wise depend from debates, but are determined by the wills of the leaders and the promptings of personal interest.  In theory, the representatives of the people consider only the public welfare; in practice, their first consideration is their own advancement, and the interests of their friends.  In theory, they must be the best citizens; in practice, they are the most ambitious and impudent.  In theory, the elector gives his vote for his candidate because he knows him and trusts him; in practice, the elector gives his vote for a man whom he seldom knows, but who has been forced on him by the speeches of an interested party.  In theory, Parliamentary business is directed by experience, good sense, and unselfishness; in practice, the chief motive powers are a firm will, egoism, and eloquence.

Such is the Parliamentary institution, exalted as the summit and crown of the edifice of State.  It is sad to think that even in Russia there are men who aspire to the establishment of this falsehood among us; that our professors glorify to their young pupils representative government as the ideal of political science; that our newspapers pursue it in their articles and feuilletons, under the name of justice and order, without troubling to examine without prejudice the working of the parliamentary machine.  Yet even where centuries have sanctified its existence, faith already decays; the Liberal intelligence exalts it, but the people groans under its despotism, and recognizes its falsehood.  We may not see, but our children and grandchildren assuredly will see, the overthrow of this idol, which contemporary thought in its vanity continues still to worship.
:putin

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Konstantin Pobedonostsev, 1884 :doge
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on February 27, 2019, 01:48:24 AM
https://twitter.com/cordeliers/status/1100468466635677697

this twitter account is awesome.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on March 02, 2019, 12:56:32 PM
There was some cursed posting in the U.S. politics thread last week (only last week? -ed.) that inspired this meme, I call it "Why don't you put away 'democratic' socialism and try something that works. Google "Milton 'Google my name and Rhodesia' Friedman'"."

Sadly it seems Dmitri Dmitriyevich is on sabbatical.  :'(

(https://i.imgur.com/6eTqzBx.jpg)

spoiler (click to show/hide)
You could do a similar meme for the U.S. and Japan to make fun of Chartalists, but Paul Krugman is going beast mode on them right now and it doesn't seem right to kick someone when they're down.

https://twitter.com/paulkrugman/status/1101829204172328960
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on March 02, 2019, 08:26:43 PM
https://twitter.com/Noahpinion/status/1101899322176659458

I had to see this awful shit so now you guys do too
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on March 02, 2019, 08:36:46 PM
Related:
 https://twitter.com/sunraysunray/status/1098819317985173504
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on March 02, 2019, 08:41:49 PM
#notallhentaifans
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on March 02, 2019, 08:42:48 PM
https://twitter.com/Noahpinion/status/1101899322176659458

I had to see this awful shit so now you guys do too

(https://i.imgur.com/Hg2AQCw.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on March 02, 2019, 08:48:43 PM
#notallhentaifans

"Is Bible Black Neoliberal Globalism" - the greatest thread in the history of forums, locked by a moderator after 12,239 pages of heated debate,
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on March 02, 2019, 11:55:18 PM
https://twitter.com/Noahpinion/status/1101903691638923264

that vision of utopia, Cowboy Bebop

spoiler (click to show/hide)
it's sad how much this enrages me :fbm
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on March 05, 2019, 10:25:13 PM
https://www.chronicle.com/article/How-Political-Science-Became/245777/

NOBODY READ THIS ARTICLE

SIGNED,
BENJI AND GLEN
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on March 07, 2019, 01:37:00 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1E1Oy7WoAAe0Qk.jpg)

:thinking

Quote
Previous studies, he said, suggested left-leaning populists in Latin America ramped up social spending but ultimately ended up creating “fractured and unequal states”. “That’s what I thought I would see, as someone who is trained as a political economist,” Doyle said.

:thinking
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on March 25, 2019, 11:03:26 PM
Monthly Review: Global Commodity Chains and the New Imperialism (https://monthlyreview.org/2019/03/01/global-commodity-chains-and-the-new-imperialism/)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on March 25, 2019, 11:13:22 PM
https://twitter.com/LuigiEsq/status/1098056177538289664
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: hungrynoob on March 25, 2019, 11:24:48 PM
God led me to this thread.

 :neogaf
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on March 25, 2019, 11:26:30 PM
https://twitter.com/LuigiEsq/status/1098056177538289664

https://twitter.com/LuigiEsq/status/1109926702111698944
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on March 25, 2019, 11:27:07 PM
mama mia
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on March 25, 2019, 11:28:50 PM
https://twitter.com/LuigiEsq/status/1109522991073947650

this is benji's twitter isn't it
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on April 30, 2019, 01:40:54 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5SUtfnXkAAx10p?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Rufus on April 30, 2019, 10:27:57 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/UC9bAZT.jpg)

:thinking
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on April 30, 2019, 10:28:57 AM
That’s a primitivist if ever saw one.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: El Babua on May 06, 2019, 12:52:55 AM
https://twitter.com/Tim_mahoneyy/status/1124723907473346560
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on May 06, 2019, 07:06:22 PM
Mr. Facts and Logic annihilated.
 https://twitter.com/Durgesh99698338/status/1120777432146034690
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on May 06, 2019, 07:28:07 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/MXiSZbu.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/ta4ZmdK.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on May 08, 2019, 12:28:45 AM
Jason Hickel came back on Citations Needed. :heart

https://soundcloud.com/citationsneeded/episode-73-western-medias-narrow-colonial-definition-of-corruption
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on May 08, 2019, 12:40:49 AM
Quote
“We find that the sanctions [on Venezuela] have inflicted, and increasingly inflict, very serious harm to human life and health, including an estimated more than 40,000 deaths from 2017-2018; and that these sanctions would fit the definition of collective punishment of the civilian population as described in both the Geneva and Hague international conventions, to which the U.S. is a signatory,” the report, published by the Centre for Economic and Policy Research (CEPR), says.

“They are also illegal under international law and treaties which the U.S. has signed, and would appear to violate U.S. law as well,” it says. Sachs co-authored the report with CEPR's Mark Weisbrot.

Excuse me, sir! Maybe you are not aware, but the United States is exempted from most international laws.

(x-post from the International Politics thread)

We're still maybe a decade or two out from this being true, but if Chavismo can withstand this much AmeriKKKan aggression and persist it will probably become as (comparatively) unimpeachable as Castroism on the left.

Guess relatively milquetoast social democracy built on extractive industries can actually withstand the inevitable bourgeois counterrevolution provided it has political power outside the ballot box. Well that and nothing but gusanos and compradores standing in opposition.
Title: yeah I'm recycling my old Romney joke
Post by: Mandark on May 08, 2019, 12:44:39 AM
Well that and nothing but gusanos and compradores standing in opposition.

Maduro going 45-37 and winning his division.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on May 08, 2019, 12:50:32 AM
nicolas "the bus driver" maduro  :rejoice
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 08, 2019, 01:04:59 AM
We're still maybe a decade or two out from this being true, but if Chavismo can withstand this much AmeriKKKan aggression and persist it will probably become as (comparatively) unimpeachable as Castroism on the left.

Guess relatively milquetoast social democracy built on extractive industries can actually withstand the inevitable bourgeois counterrevolution provided it has political power outside the ballot box. Well that and nothing but gusanos and compradores standing in opposition.
If you think the Trump administration, or even a succeeding Democratic administration, will stop at a devastating economic siege just because it has no chance of succeeding in effecting a US friendly political and economic agenda, I have some Iraqi dinars you might be interested in.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/717CvvAuqqL.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on May 08, 2019, 02:11:28 AM
I agree! The duration of time was more about "the proof of the pudding lies in its eating" than a changing of the guard in the bedrock of empire.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on May 08, 2019, 09:11:30 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5fY9-UWwAAsRX9.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 08, 2019, 09:31:11 PM
I got into him because of curly. thanks, curly  :-*
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on May 08, 2019, 10:01:19 PM
that meme is the majority of my knowledge of Parenti :lol

well that and skimming this (https://lorenzoae.wordpress.com/2016/05/31/chomsky-vs-parenti/) and thinking it was dumb
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on May 08, 2019, 10:08:10 PM
That meme is my commune except I probably speak more Russian than Parenti + am not the slightest bit proletarian. :lol

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Thankfully it skews more EZLN stan than Rojava stan.
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 08, 2019, 10:13:14 PM
the essay form of the book I mentioned is a good start. you used to be able to find it on his website but his website seems to be totally broken now because "heterodox" academics can't stay relevant into the twenty first century without meme energy :wow

I read that shit and as soon as I got to the genocide denial I felt pretty disgusted. Then I let the initial reaction wash over me and kept going. It's like Slobodan Did Nothing Wrong but serious, and he still teaches at Berkeley.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on May 08, 2019, 10:14:50 PM
People say it's staid and boring on the Western left, but you'll never know what kind of genocide denier someone is until they just volunteer it out of nowhere.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 08, 2019, 10:16:13 PM
spoiler (click to show/hide)
Thankfully it skews more EZLN stan than Rojava stan.
[close]
Isn't this just a regional variation of exactly the same philosophy, minus the indigenous focus or secularism, respectively? Granted I'm not familiar with EZLN but I would like to think I have a good handle on Emiliano Zapata et al.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on May 08, 2019, 10:20:51 PM
spoiler (click to show/hide)
Thankfully it skews more EZLN stan than Rojava stan.
[close]
Isn't this just a regional variation of exactly the same philosophy, minus the indigenous focus or secularism, respectively? Granted I'm not familiar with EZLN but I would like to think I have a good handle on Emiliano Zapata et al.

How many CIA bases are in Chiapas? :doge
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 08, 2019, 10:27:12 PM
to be completely fair the srebrenica take consists of two components, the first is that war crimes absolutely were committed but that albanians were also responsible for significant crimes that went totally unreported, and the second is that it wasn't "technically a genocide" because only men were shot. Not really "genocide denial", besides literally denying it was a genocide, more like stanning really hard for people nobody likes. Like a defense attorney. Or me during my wank dad phase.

I will never defend any of this in public, though, that will get me beaten to death or blacklisted
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on May 08, 2019, 10:48:04 PM
Some of that is an academic factor in ways that you otherwise will simply not be noticed.

To use a more... popular example. Most "academic" Holocaust denial is historically of the technical type. David Irving's entire case ultimately rests on the technically true fact that there is nowhere a surviving record where Hitler specifically wrote out an order for anything that led to an actual event. To Irving this means Hitler wanted to stop it and everyone was keeping him in the dark. To everyone else it means Hitler didn't have to specifically write down what he wanted because it was pretty fucking obvious and he expressed his opinions on everything else going on in the universe to anyone who would stand being with him for long periods.

The other large part of Irving's cohort is saying, "well, sure, the Holocaust, but what about the allied bombings?" Which is part of how he originally got accepted in academia, by being willing to talk about allied atrocities during the war. (It was still taboo in the West to acknowledge these into the later 1970s, and usually limited to the use of the atomic bombs since they were exclusively an American action.) He just took a bit of a while to get to why he wanted to talk about it in that it justifies Nazi crimes retroactively somehow.

The rest of the Irving cohort is hopping onto anyone, no matter how dubious their claims as to background are, making "scientific proofs" that make no sense like how there can't be anyone who was killed at Auschwitz because the doors on the gas chambers have no handles on the inside which means nobody could get out which makes no sense! Doors are made so people can go both ways!

Many academic Turkish-friendly takes on the Armenian Genocide use forms of either of these too. The former Yugoslavia/Soviet Union still has many people who were intimately involved hanging out (or even in power) so it's somewhat verboten to outright state that everyone during the break up tried to get away with something even if some were worse to far worse. For example, one sticking point with people I know from the area (both Bosnian and Serb) is how quickly the Croats got themselves out. They just assume they did something extra nefarious that the U.S. helped cover up. (Though to be fair, they also think know that 9/11 was a US/Mossad plot.)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on May 08, 2019, 11:04:41 PM
to be completely fair the srebrenica take consists of two components, the first is that war crimes absolutely were committed but that albanians were also responsible for significant crimes that went totally unreported, and the second is that it wasn't "technically a genocide" because only men were shot. Not really "genocide denial", besides literally denying it was a genocide, more like stanning really hard for people nobody likes. Like a defense attorney. Or me during my wank dad phase.

I will never defend any of this in public, though, that will get me beaten to death or blacklisted

You mean Bosnians right?

The war in Yugoslavia was one of the first wars that were also fought by PR firms that every party hired.
Outside of some pretty hilarious and ridiculous music videos, this also meant that we (as in the public and academia) also kind of fell for it. Croatia always tried to emphasize their catholic identity to show that they are not really a part of the Balkans. They even sent their state orchestra out on a world tour to show that they appreciate western art. We had these images evoking pictures from the liberation of Nazi concentration camps that showed us Bosnian victims. Serbia had none of that, they were shown as the aggressor. Serbian victims of violence and displacement were never really in the public conscience.
To construct a contrarian argument to downplay Serbian war crimes to go against the western media consensus is incredibly easy. I‘m not familiar with this guy‘s work so I won‘t get more into his motivations.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 08, 2019, 11:25:16 PM
No, I mean the Kosovo Liberation Army.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on May 08, 2019, 11:47:06 PM
But I thought you were talking about Srebrenica?

The most prominent war crime during the Kosovo war was the Racak massacre, and to defend or downplay that one doesn‘t require jumping through as many hoops as downplaying Srebrenica, since the reporting around the Racak massacre has been controversial.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on May 08, 2019, 11:48:58 PM
Esch posting so many memes from my orbit of social media / forums... what's your Rhizzone account mate.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on May 09, 2019, 12:04:39 AM
https://youtu.be/tGRrnAwb1RM

Communists annihilated by Grandpa Krstan.  8)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 09, 2019, 12:06:24 AM
But I thought you were talking about Srebrenica?

The most prominent war crime during the Kosovo war was the Racak massacre, and to defend or downplay that one doesn‘t require jumping through as many hoops as downplaying Srebrenica, since the reporting around the Racak massacre has been controversial.
I should have phrased my post better. The book is about the targeted destruction of the entirety of Yugoslavia from sanctions to bombings, not just that one massacre or Bosnia. I just said "Albanians also committed crimes" because that was memorable to me as an example of a totally-victimized and never-scrutinized faction in the Balkan wars, not because I thought Srebrenica was in Kosovo. And also because Taken was a formative movie for me.
Croatia always tried to emphasize their catholic identity to show that they are not really a part of the Balkans. They even sent their state orchestra out on a world tour to show that they appreciate western art.
RELEVANT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwDrHqNZ9lo
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on May 09, 2019, 12:06:44 AM
I'm just a normal registered Democrat party voter
this is kinda sus

I say this as a normal everyday American non-voter who is registered to vote purely through the requirements of the state (as in the American state of Michigan, not the conceptual state) complying with the National Voter Registration Act of 1993 as passed by both houses of our Congress and signed by President Bill Clinton.

 :trumps
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on May 09, 2019, 12:08:41 AM
I've got absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I'm just a normal registered Democrat party voter who believes in freedom and liberty for all, and the execution of democratic elections to really express every man's interests.

 :trumps

(https://i.imgur.com/6GZqVtx.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BIONIC on May 09, 2019, 09:17:30 AM
What the fuck is anybody talking about in this fucking thread?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on May 09, 2019, 10:45:50 AM
ur mom
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 09, 2019, 09:57:15 PM
ok last bit of parenti spam

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Tmi7JN3LkA

 :heart
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on May 10, 2019, 12:13:45 PM
Meant to post this when we were talking Balkans.

(https://i.imgur.com/wZfzN1I.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on May 10, 2019, 12:29:48 PM
If this was a higher quality image I would have proposed to make the expression of Milosevic and he man to his right an emote here.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: toku on May 10, 2019, 01:07:57 PM
dope post-rock album cover
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on May 10, 2019, 09:11:25 PM
Bernie is a freaking INCEL :yuck
 https://twitter.com/virgiltexas/status/1126679561285111809
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on May 11, 2019, 11:42:22 AM
Very cool that the troops have social media!

https://twitter.com/Southcom/status/1126567827819962370
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 11, 2019, 07:06:03 PM
https://www.versobooks.com/books/2822-people-s-republic-of-walmart

holy plot twist, batman  :leon

spoiler (click to show/hide)
as seen on sam seder  :doge
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on May 12, 2019, 10:56:37 AM
That's on my to read list. I haven't actually read it because I'm sure it will undersell how much of Wal-Mart / Amazon's "successful" central planning relies on a comically evil degree of surplus value appropriation, government welfare, unsustainable global supply chains, and human misery. Plus since it's Verso I'm sure it's going to veer into comedy like parecon or whatever the Pacific Northwest drum circles are on about these days.

Unrelated: Voxsplainers about the rationing function of prices (https://www.vox.com/health-care/2019/5/10/18526696/health-care-costs-er-emergency-room?utm_source=pocket-newtab)? Going hopepunk was the best decision I made. 8)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Trent Dole on May 12, 2019, 04:18:14 PM
Hopepunk - it's like Obama with a mohawk?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABGiqizwCso
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on May 12, 2019, 05:50:49 PM
https://www.propublica.org/article/terror-in-little-saigon-vietnam-american-journalists-murdered#intro

This was a bit of wild read for me personally because:

I knew none of this stuff had happened here in Orange County when I was growing up. Only thing I can think of was an incident where a store had a flag for actual Vietnam in its window that drew a lot of protests.

It was also kind of a mindfuck because the enmity between exiles I mainly encountered growing up was who collaborated with the French which is probably some bizarre class marker I didn't even know I had.

Anyway, the rule of law is very important! And a free press whose safety and security is sacrosanct! And the chilling effect on free speech by non-state actors!

spoiler (click to show/hide)
There's probably a story like this involving the Cuban community, isn't there? :doge
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on May 12, 2019, 06:40:41 PM
Quote
As part of their defense, their lawyers argued that the Front members were immune from prosecution because they had struck a secret deal with the CIA and the Department of Defense. In exchange for their help in locating American prisoners of war in Vietnam, the agencies had given the Front permission to do as it wished with the money raised in America.

Prosecutors scoffed at the claim. One defense lawyer, interviewed recently, insisted there was evidence to substantiate the men’s assertion, but the lawyer would neither disclose nor discuss it.

ProPublica and Frontline sought to obtain the entire case file to reconstruct what happened. Surprisingly, staff at the federal courthouses in San Jose and San Francisco said the file had been lost, and the Federal Records Center, which archives old court records, was also unable locate the documents.

The office of the current U.S. attorney in San Francisco would not discuss the case. The Department of Defense and CIA also both refused to talk about the Front.

The few court records that have survived, as well as interviews with some of those involved, show the case came to a sudden, anticlimactic end.

On January 4, 1995, some four years after the indictments had been announced, U.S. District Judge James Ware held a hearing on a motion made by lawyers for the Front members. The lawyers argued that their clients had been denied their right to a speedy trial. The judge, embarrassed, conceded that they were right, and dismissed the case.

Zwemke said he heard about the dismissal in a phone call from the prosecutor’s office. The assistant U.S. attorney said little more than, “Sorry, I wasn’t watching the clock,” Zwemke recalled.

“You got to be kidding me.”

 :thinking
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on May 12, 2019, 06:43:55 PM
Quote
Later in 1995, Louis Freeh, then the director of the FBI, visited the San Francisco office, where Tang-Wilcox had been grinding along in her pursuit of the Front.

For years, often working solo, she had pulled together a mountain of files from agents across the country, and had scoured them for ways to connect the group to more than two dozen criminal acts.

Finally given an audience with Freeh, Tang-Wilcox said she made a direct plea to him in front of other agents: Either give me the resources to pursue this case or shut it down.

Nearly 15 years after Lam’s murder gave an early intimation of the Front’s tactics, Freeh decided to make the group a priority. The investigation was formally declared a “major case” on organized crime and domestic terrorism grounds, a move that brought it additional agents.

Know what year US/Vietnamese relations were normalized? 1995  :hans1
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on May 14, 2019, 02:35:49 PM
Felix Biederman said gusano on this week's episode of Chapo. :lol

Sure he's the one most plugged in with edge left stuff on Twitter (e.g. making J. Sakai jokes, calling the Osprey a Maoist Third-Worldist weapon because it kills more U.S. troops than opposing forces) but I'm still taking this as further evidence that the Overton window is shifting far left. :hmph
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on May 14, 2019, 02:46:05 PM
https://www.yelp.com/biz/el-gusano-oakland
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 15, 2019, 02:44:10 PM
Can't wait for the Socialism vs. Capitalism Town Hall on Fox Business News tomorrow!
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on May 15, 2019, 08:51:07 PM
Felix Biederman said gusano on this week's episode of Chapo. :lol

I might be playing myself but I thought I heard one of the hosts say it in a recent Citations Needed too.

Don't recall that ever happening, but I 100% believe Adam Johnson has said that word multiple times in his life.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on May 15, 2019, 11:50:20 PM
READ SETTLERS

https://twitter.com/ewarren/status/1128656240756887552
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 15, 2019, 11:55:25 PM
https://twitter.com/virgiltexas/status/1128679933503520770
https://twitter.com/virgiltexas/status/1128697247808487425
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on May 16, 2019, 12:02:49 AM
The Green New Deal is a solar-powered drone built in a sustainable defense contractor facility by AFL-CIO workers dropping recyclable laser guided munitions with Ginsu knives on kids who have unreliable access to clean drinking water. Elizabeth Warren 2020.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 16, 2019, 02:03:25 PM
Richard Wolff and Herman Cain are here  :hyper
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 16, 2019, 02:20:05 PM
Question, roughly: "Isn't it a contradiction that we have so many wealthy people in this country but so many people that are hungry and homeless?"
Herman Cain: "First of all, I reject your assumptions..." ???


Herman Cain: "United Soviet Socialist Republics..."
Richard Wolff: "Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, but that's alright."


Stuart Varney: "And their leader in Chian who said, let a thousand flowers bloom... I can't remember the name of their leader who said that..."
Wolff: "Are you teaching people? In OUR schools?" :dead


This is amazing. Absolutely the best program I have ever watched on TV, ever
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 16, 2019, 02:32:16 PM
I thought I just misheard him at the beginning but, rather than address the subject directly, Cain actually refuses to believe there are homeless people in New York City.


Chris Farley look alike in a FULL suit and tie, who obviously came here as a home court fan: "How close are we to getting to PURE capitalism? No taxes, no state, free market economy. Because, you know, people left keep saying, 'how far can we go to the left?' Well how about we see how far we can take it to the right?" He is smiling by the time he finishes his question.


Twenty minutes in Stuart Varney is replaced with Neil Cavuto because Varney kept telling the students asking questions: "I don't know why you're laughing, sunshine." Also because he kept going on about how he's a millionaire because he worked hard owning land.


Cain salty as fuck because of the Wolff quips :lol


Chris Farley is not in the audience anymore.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 16, 2019, 02:44:12 PM
Lou Dobbs has entered the building. I just realized they're rotating all their Fox news hosts like tag team wrestling all so they can get a shot in at Richard Wolff.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 16, 2019, 02:54:57 PM
Last question for today: "Can we at least agree that education, housing, food security, and healthcare access is a human right?"
Dobbs: "There is no such thing as human rights." I did not paraphrase that.


Dobbs: "China is a country America built. And it always will be."


It's over. In my heart, the debate is settled. I wish I had recorded this. Sorry Bore!
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on May 16, 2019, 04:21:10 PM
Lou Dobbs has entered the building. I just realized they're rotating all their Fox news hosts like tag team wrestling all so they can get a shot in at Richard Wolff.
Fox Business hosts :ufup
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 16, 2019, 08:03:12 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7zMF8Bgkb0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cln9ZtrRkJg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CU5CLi5iiuM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXXgTOBVyoI
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 16, 2019, 09:33:28 PM
The first half hour was truly :delicious although I misremembered some stuff as I was typing it (young Chris Farley is not smiling as he advocates for pure ancap freedom). It picks up again once Lou Dobbs joins and people literally cheer in the audience. I think rotating out 25% of the panel every 15 minutes was just one of many ways that this wasn't a proper discussion at all and nothing interesting could be discussed at length or developed.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on May 16, 2019, 10:46:02 PM
Just starting these (thanks Dmitri Dmitriyevich) but before I do I want to say that between this, the Bernie town hall, and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez mania, things are looking bright in the war of ideas, combrehs. Building social fascism together is going to be a lot of fun. :ussrcry
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on May 16, 2019, 10:53:27 PM
skipped around to the end, don't see it said who won, this is just like the Peterson/Zizek debate, when are we going to get a simple answer on which is better?!? did they not even keep track of points?

glad they pulled out Kennedy, get errybody up in there
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on May 16, 2019, 11:04:06 PM
"Let a thousand flowers bloom . . . and those thousand flowers were capitalist enterprises!" :rofl :rofl :rofl
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 16, 2019, 11:12:22 PM
Just starting these (thanks Dmitri Dmitriyevich) but before I do I want to say that between this, the Bernie town hall, and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez mania, things are looking bright in the war of ideas, combrehs. Building social fascism together is going to be a lot of fun. :ussrcry
Yeah, with any luck, the democratic socialists will be at least as successful as George McGovern this time around

spoiler (click to show/hide)
(https://i.imgur.com/aOokuJF.png)

Ah, well, maybe next decade.
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on May 16, 2019, 11:59:42 PM
 :lol Is literally every person on the panel going to dunk on the ancap?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 17, 2019, 12:08:46 AM
you call it dunking, I call it SHOOK by PURE FREEDOM :punch
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on May 17, 2019, 12:11:45 AM
usually what happens when people's precious state jackboot is even hypothetically removed from their necks, they lash out and turn violent

see, also: Marx at The Hague
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on May 17, 2019, 01:39:54 AM
alright all done. on the whole it felt kinda liberal vs. conservative where the conservatives work the crowd with rhetorical theatrics while the other side has a bookish professor trying to win a war with a list of facts.

anyway, here's the dramatis personae review:

bianca "dsa small and medium-sized enterprise caucus" cunningham: you unionized a workplace which is more than i'm ever going to do but at least i've never said, "we need socialism so people can start small businesses" on a fox business debate about socialism

dickie "i didn't create the show law & order" wolff: courageously argued for unpopular things like dengism, the nazi federal republic of germany, or cuba not being a model socialist state by patiently reciting lists of facts

herman "remember when i quoted pokemon" cain: it felt like they stopped letting you talk at a certain point, let the man cook! as dmitri dmitriyevich already mentioned it seems like he literally doesn't believe homeless people exist

the legion of doom:

pom guy: margaret thatcher was a capitalist even though she literally never owned any means of production, welcome to the desert of the real
cavuto: i 100% believe you are very sincere when you argue that regulation of the private sector is actually good / necessary evil
kennedy: go bruins!!!!!!!!!!!!!! fuck $c
lou dobbs: i was with you when you said human rights are a bourgeois conceit and the nazi frg export economy isn't actually replicable but you quickly went off the rails from there. a stopped clock really is right twice a day i guess.

Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on May 17, 2019, 10:47:14 AM
SMB-ianca :lol :lol

Unrelated: :dead :dead :dead

(https://i.imgur.com/glwQZZV.png)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on May 17, 2019, 04:56:22 PM
https://features.propublica.org/ransomware/ransomware-attack-data-recovery-firms-paying-hackers/

This story has so many cliches (even down to the sketchy Israeli professing to have intelligence bona fides) that it probably belongs in the late stage capitalism thread but (1) it's longform while that's essentially a very niche outside link thread and (2) we gotta have our vegetables in here to offset all the candy.

Anyway, as someone who cannot board a plane without being flagged and searched by security it's nice to know the *Hans Gruber voice* American FBI can't do cybercrime. Also, it's kind of absurd that this economic activity which has no useful purpose whatsoever is being priced into all manner of goods and services that do. Markets, innit.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on May 17, 2019, 08:48:08 PM
Quote
Thousands of workers from the University of California waged a one-day strike Thursday and found some unexpected allies out on their picket lines.

In an unusual move for a presidential candidate, the campaign of Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) sent out targeted text messages and emails to its supporters in California a day ahead of the strike, urging them to join workers as they rallied against the university system in a labor dispute.

“Tens of thousands of workers in the University of California system are standing up this Thursday to stop the outsourcing and privatization of union jobs,” the email said. “We are hoping you can join these workers tomorrow.”

The note included an RSVP link and an address for a local picket.

Pop-Pop Socdem  :whew

When he doesn't get the nomination it's going to be lit when he gives his list to, uh, that youngster at AFL-CIO Social Media who's obviously an entryist instead of the Democratic nominee.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 17, 2019, 08:51:08 PM
When the messaging is just a hair's breadth away from rediscovering the role of the general strike as not just a tool for labor privileges within the business but also shaping national policy by holding services and industries hostage :lawd
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 18, 2019, 03:28:08 PM
https://youtu.be/A1dQUl6Hbfc

this whole vid :lol curly, he's finally going full maoist
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on May 18, 2019, 07:36:01 PM
tbh the more time you spend on the American left the more likely it is that you end up a Trot (unpaid and unaware internship with the U.S. State Department), a Maoist (solving the problem of your chronic under and unemployment by being arrested and imprisoned for many years on federal weapons charges), or thinking the public library is socialism like SMB-ianca (join the DSA).

I've seen it happen so many times over the years, and the arch-yet-irrelevant theoretical argument in the DSA still is... how did The Nation amusingly term it in their article about Turing Police? Soft Maoists versus Diet Trots?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on May 18, 2019, 07:39:33 PM
When you‘re saying Trotskyism, are you talking about the fourth international, the fifth international or a post structural Trotskyism? :sabu
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on May 18, 2019, 07:49:32 PM
My favorite thing in The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is that Heinlein tried to establish his story as taking place far in the future by having there be a Fifth International when Trots got us there way before line marriage became acceptable.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on May 19, 2019, 01:28:19 AM
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/17/health/antibiotics-oranges-florida.html

The anarchy of production trying to kill us all in new and interesting ways. :whew
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on May 19, 2019, 01:38:19 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/L7deUiQr.jpg)


Taken from the DC Metro... Red Line.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on May 19, 2019, 02:14:50 PM
https://twitter.com/hank_mylander/status/1098590490184822790
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on May 19, 2019, 02:18:04 PM
"Lenin was a member of the Russian Social Democratic Labor Party until material conditions allowed for revolution," I say to myself as I stare in the mirror, not recognizing the DSA member before me. I'm growing out my beard in the manner of a Brooklynite. I'm extremely excited to campaign for a candidate in the Democratic Party's presidential primary. I'm extremely excited to participate in my local's brake light clinic soon. I no longer know who I am and I feel like the ghost of a total stranger.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Brake light stuff is a demonstrable material benefit and perfectly fine. Don't mind me.
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on May 20, 2019, 10:36:49 AM
Quote
Bolsonaro has publically been pro-weapon and police brutality. He signed a decree early May, relaxing rules of carrying weapons for collectors, hunters, and sports shooters, known by the acronym CAC.

The CACs can carry loaded weapons on the streets which were not allowed previously.

 :hitler
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on May 20, 2019, 08:56:40 PM
Linking this jeremiad is #problematic and if you want to cancel me or critically support me for doing so then I understand.

https://medium.com/@stephensrl20/socialism-deferred-how-dsa-failed-in-the-fight-against-sexual-violence-racism-3ca541333d60

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Shout out to SMB-ianca and @turing_police's favorite member of the U.S. Imperialism Caucus Jason Schulmann getting name dropped in here.
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on May 22, 2019, 02:17:52 PM
https://twitter.com/wesyang/status/1131255892580667392 (https://twitter.com/wesyang/status/1131255892580667392)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 22, 2019, 02:51:00 PM
.
(https://www.nchrd.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/yue-xin.jpg)

Yue Xin, still missing after organizing workers at Jasic.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on May 23, 2019, 12:40:34 AM
Slate says Socialism is over thanks to Bhaskar Sunkara: https://slate.com/business/2019/05/socialist-manifesto-bhaskar-sunkara-socialism-bernie-sanders.html
Quote
Should the U.S. Trash Capitalism?

After reading The Socialist Manifesto, I’d have to say no.

...

What I got instead was a book that mostly dwells on how socialist movements have failed throughout history, either falling short of their goals or descending into nightmarish authoritarianism. Even Sweden, famous for its generous welfare state, is treated as a cautionary tale. “The best we can say about socialism in the twentieth century is that it was a false start,” Sunkara writes. Out of this dismal track record, Sunkara tries to draw lessons about how today’s radical leftists can do better, but the result is not always inspiring. A more fitting title might have been The Socialist Manifesto: Let’s Try to Get It Right This Time.

First, the definition: From the get-go, Sunkara draws a bright line between social democracy—a capitalist economy where workers have strong legal rights and enjoy a robust welfare state, which is to say, Denmark—and democratic socialism, aka socialism, but with a democratically elected government. Social democracy sands off capitalism’s rough edges; democratic socialism feeds capitalism into the wood chipper, then builds something else in its place. Sunkara very much wants to make mulch from our current system of private enterprise.

But how, exactly, would he do it? Sunkara imagines a world where individual companies are technically owned by the state but collectively controlled by their workers, who get to keep and split the profits, while all lending and startup funding are handled by a government development bank (goodbye, J.P. Morgan). His utopia is not a Soviet-style command economy; businesses would still compete freely with one another. But the labor and financial markets as we know them would no longer exist. (Sunkara handles much of this description in an oddly whimsical chapter involving a pasta sauce factory owned by Jon Bon Jovi’s family and a political movement started by Bruce Springsteen.* The term “pasta proletarian” is deployed.)
pasta proletarian
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on May 23, 2019, 12:57:10 AM
Quote
First, the definition: From the get-go, Sunkara draws a bright line between social democracy—a capitalist economy where workers have strong legal rights and enjoy a robust welfare state, which is to say, Denmark—and democratic socialism, aka socialism

 :stop :rage
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on May 23, 2019, 01:54:07 AM
The virgin Socialist Manifesto:
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288 pages

The chad Communist Manifesto:
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24 pages

cover blurbs on the virgin Socialist Manifesto:
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"Accessible, irreverent and entertaining, Bhaskar Sunkara has delivered a razor-sharp guide to socialism's history, transformative promise, and path to power. This book also serves as an irresistible invitation to join in building that power, and in shaping the radically democratic future that is our best hope in these make-or-break times."―Naomi Klein, New York Times-bestselling author of This Changes Everything and No is Not Enough

"American politics is gripped by the worst kind of debate over socialism: one where everyone has an opinion, but few know what they're talking about. In this book, Bhaskar Sunkara, one of America's leading socialists, shows what socialism is and how it might work. Whether you consider yourself a socialist or just want to argue with socialists, this is the place to start."―Ezra Klein, founder and editor-at-large of Vox

"In this erudite call to action, Sunkara, publisher of Jacobin magazine, draws lessons from the history of various socialist movements to imagine how socialism could rise in the U.S..... His recommendations for today's socialists are logical and well-informed."―Publishers Weekly

cover blurbs on the chad Communist Manifesto:
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BUCH IST VERBOTEN

publisher of the virgin Socialist Manifesto
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multinational conglomerate founded by Michael Eisner

publisher of the chad Communist Manifesto
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barely anyone until 30 years later and then whoever the fuck wanted to
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on May 23, 2019, 02:05:08 AM
Despite the frankly hurtful accusations Dmitri Dmitriyevich hurls at me in the bad dragon show thread, I haven't read Girondin with any regularity since my baby leftist days, but I do follow Bhaskar and the gang on social media still because I'm a 9 to 5, lunch pail kind of doxxer (unlike my good friend and ideological enemy benji, the consummate flashy, hip hop doxxer) so I'm usually somewhat plugged in to whatever they're on about at the moment. The self-promotion for the Cooperative Manifesto has been a little odd, rarely talking too much about the content itself, but that's not too unusual for Verso type stuff. Contrast this with Comrade Daddy Furr who goes on long podcasts with humble aspirations to tell you exactly how many of Trotsky's lies are destroyed in his latest book.

This digression (and Kenny outing himself in the late stage capitalism thread) reminds me that I should probably look over my estate planning; I think all of it goes to the Rosa Luxemburg Foundation right now if I kick the bucket.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on May 23, 2019, 02:14:10 AM
actually, some of the cover/review blurbs for this book read like what BA (or his cult) puts on his own books :lol

Quote
"Thanks to the dysfunctionality of contemporary capitalism, 'socialism' has reentered the American political vocabulary, especially among the young. In The Socialist Manifesto, Bhaskar Sunkara gives us a lively account of socialism's history and current meanings, and makes the case for a genuine alternative to our deeply unequal social and political order."―Eric Foner, DeWitt Clinton Professor of History, emeritus, Columbia University

"A brilliantly compelling vision of why the US is ripe for socialism in the twenty-first century, from one of the brightest stars of the American left. Essential reading for anyone who wants to build a new society based on people's needs, not profit for the elite."―Owen Jones, Guardian columnist and the author of Chavs: The Demonization of the Working Class
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on May 23, 2019, 02:23:20 AM
i just realized that if BA died it could be weeks before i found out

this is a very sobering thought
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on May 23, 2019, 02:33:25 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/VF5R6ki.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on May 23, 2019, 02:38:57 AM
Speaking if Bob, did you get any exposure to the BEB meme benji? It eventually returned into a riff on Jeb! so I thought of you as it was ongoing.

(https://i.imgur.com/PBq0NKs.png)

spoiler (click to show/hide)
(https://i.imgur.com/EmPDGMt.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on May 23, 2019, 02:39:41 AM
what ARE Bernie Sanders views on the lies about the Great Leap Forward/Cultural Revolution and famine in the Ukraine? :thinking
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on May 23, 2019, 03:18:53 AM
what ARE Bernie Sanders views on the lies about the Great Leap Forward/Cultural Revolution and famine in the Ukraine? :thinking

*Bernie Sanders voice* the millionaires and the billionaires are not the only ones who should have access to the truth about kulaks. Thank you.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 23, 2019, 03:21:37 AM
The idea that “Mao was responsible for genocide” has been used as a springboard to rubbish everything that the Chinese people achieved during Mao’s rule. However, even someone like the demographer Judith Banister, one of the most prominent advocates of the “massive death toll” hypothesis has to admit the successes of the Mao era. She writes how in 1973-5 life expectancy in China was higher than in Africa, the Middle East, South Asia and many countries in Latin America 1. In 1981 she co-wrote an article where she described the People’s Republic of China as a ‘super-achiever’ in terms of mortality reduction, with life expectancy increasing by approximately 1.5 years per calendar year since the start of communist rule in 1949 2. Life expectancy increased from 35 in 1949 to 65 in the 1970s when Mao’s rule came to an end. 3

To read many modern commentators on Mao’s China 4, you would get the impression that Mao’s agricultural and industrial policies led to absolute economic disaster. Even more restrained commentators, such as the economist Peter Nolan 5 claim that living standards did not rise in China, during the post-revolutionary period, until Deng Xiaoping took power. Of course, increases in living standards are not the sole reason for increases in life expectancy. However, it is absurd to claim that life expectancy could have increased so much during the Mao era with no increase in living standards.

For example, it is claimed by many who have studied figures released by Deng Xiaoping after Mao’s death that per capita grain production did not increase at all during the Mao period. 6 But how is it possible to reconcile such statistics with the figures on life expectancy that the same authors quote? Besides which these figures are contradicted by other figures. Guo Shutian, a Former Director of Policy and Law in the Chinese Ministry of Agriculture, in the post-Mao era, gives a very different view of China’s overall agricultural performance during the period before Deng’s “reforms.” It is true that he writes that agricultural production decreased in five years between 1949-1978 due to “natural calamities and mistakes in the work.” However he states that during 1949-1978 the per hectare yield of land sown with food crops increased by 145.9% and total food production rose 169.6%. During this period China’s population grew by 77.7%. On these figures, China’s per capita food production grew from 204 kilograms to 328 kilograms in the period in question.7

Even according to figures released by the Deng Xiaoping regime, industrial production increased by 11.2% per year from 1952-1976 (by 10% a year during the alleged catastrophe of the Cultural Revolution). In 1952 industry was 36% of gross value of national output in China. By 1975 industry was 72% and agriculture was 28%. It is quite obvious that Mao’s supposedly disastrous socialist economic policies paved the way for the rapid (but inegalitarian and unbalanced) economic development of the post-Mao era.8

There is a good argument to suggest that the policies of the Great Leap Forward actually did much to sustain China’s overall economic growth, after an initial period of disruption. At the end of the 1950s, it was clear that China was going to have to develop using its own resources and without being able to use a large amount of machinery and technological know-how imported from the Soviet Union.

In the late 1950s China and the USSR were heading for a schism. Partly, this was the ideological fall-out that occurred following the death of Stalin. There had been many differences between Stalin and Mao. Among other things, Mao believed that Stalin mistrusted the peasants and over-emphasized the development of heavy industry. However, Mao believed that Khrushchev was using his denunciation of Stalinism as a cover for the progressive ditching of socialist ideology and practice in the USSR.

Also the split was due to the tendency of Khrushchev to try and impose the Soviet Union’s own ways of doing things on its allies. Khrushchev acted not in the spirit of socialist internationalism but rather in the spirit of treating economically less developed nations like client states. For a country like China, that had fought so bitterly for its freedom from foreign domination, such a relationship could never have been acceptable. Mao could not have sold it to his people, even if he had wanted to.

In 1960 the conflict between the two nations came to a head. The Soviets had been providing a great deal of assistance for China’s industrialization program. In 1960, all Soviet technical advisers left the country. They took with them the blueprints of the various industrial plants they had been planning to build.

Mao made clear that, from the start, the policies of the Great Leap Forward were about China developing a more independent economic policy. China’s alternative to reliance on the USSR was a program for developing agriculture alongside the development of industry. In so doing, Mao wanted to use the resources that China could muster in abundance-labour and popular enthusiasm. The use of these resources would make up for the lack of capital and advanced technology.

Although problems and reversals occurred in the Great Leap Forward, it is fair to say that it had a very important role in the ongoing development of agriculture. Measures such as water conservancy and irrigation allowed for sustained increases in agricultural production, once the period of bad harvests was over. They also helped the countryside to deal with the problem of drought. Flood defenses were also developed. Terracing helped gradually increase the amount of cultivated area.

U.S. demographers have tried to use death rate evidence and other demographic evidence from official Chinese sources to prove the hypothesis that there was a “massive death toll” in the Great Leap Forward (i.e. a hypothesis that the “largest famine of all time” or “one of the largest famines of all time” took place during the Great Leap Forward). However, inconsistencies in the evidence and overall doubts about the source of their evidence undermine this “massive death toll” hypothesis.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 23, 2019, 03:22:02 AM
wait, hold on, that was monthly review
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on May 23, 2019, 03:29:20 AM
 :doge
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on May 23, 2019, 09:04:57 PM
Intuit, welcome to the revolutionary vanguard. :salute

https://www.propublica.org/article/turbotax-military-discount-trick-troops-paying-to-file-taxes/
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on May 24, 2019, 03:17:44 PM
Checking your posts for likes and seeing people hate 😡

Bhaskar didn't let the staff of Girondin unionize until 2016, I'd say he knows a lot about being an employer. :hitler

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Insert "Jacobin doesn't pay for articles" joke here.
[close]

Unrelated:
 https://twitter.com/amnesty/status/1131502985933144064
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on May 25, 2019, 02:57:32 PM
Peeps say I'm a clown for being hopepunk but this is what we're up against now.

(https://i.imgur.com/fM5pMzd.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on May 25, 2019, 08:34:32 PM
Despite the frankly hurtful accusations Dmitri Dmitriyevich hurls at me in the bad dragon show thread, I haven't read Girondin with any regularity since my baby leftist days, but I do follow Bhaskar and the gang on social media still because I'm a 9 to 5, lunch pail kind of doxxer (unlike my good friend and ideological enemy benji, the consummate flashy, hip hop doxxer) so I'm usually somewhat plugged in to whatever they're on about at the moment. The self-promotion for the Cooperative Manifesto has been a little odd, rarely talking too much about the content itself, but that's not too unusual for Verso type stuff. Contrast this with Comrade Daddy Furr who goes on long podcasts with humble aspirations to tell you exactly how many of Trotsky's lies are destroyed in his latest book.

This digression (and Kenny outing himself in the late stage capitalism thread) reminds me that I should probably look over my estate planning; I think all of it goes to the Rosa Luxemburg Foundation right now if I kick the bucket.

This post confuses me because I assumed Kara was born an Old Bolshevik
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 25, 2019, 08:52:02 PM
I'm pretty sure in Kara's opinion, turning everything into a worker co-op isn't the end goal of socialism.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on May 25, 2019, 09:21:24 PM
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/05/mayor_pete_is_antonio_gramscis_perfect_socialist_vehicle_for_cultural_destruction.html

I can’t find the gramsci umad smiley
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: toku on May 25, 2019, 11:04:48 PM
https://twitter.com/AshKSkeet/status/1132362333936865281
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on May 26, 2019, 01:25:40 AM
This post confuses me because I assumed Kara was born an Old Bolshevik

At the time I thought it was amusing that I could leave money to an ostensible policy institute of the SED's descendant. Since they have a U.S. office I also assumed it would be easier for whatever poor soul was left with the task to distribute the money; it's probably a little harder to get money to Cuba.

This was also a bit before before Die Linke leaned in hard on the anti-immigrant drivel and it became apparent that the New York office of the foundation was obviously in the orbit of Jacobin / NYC DSA instead of bringing us piping hot (subnational) governing party praxis.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
There were three in the family--a papa, a mama, and a son. Papa was an Old Bolsehvik, Mama was an old housewife, and the son was an old Pioneer with close-cropped hair and twelve years of life experience. (http://www.sovlit.net/conversationsattea/)

spoiler (click to show/hide)
"Not in 'class', but in the 'group'", the son answered. "How many times do I have to tell you, Papa, that 'class' is a reactionary-feudal concept?" :dead :dead :dead
[close]
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on May 26, 2019, 01:26:18 AM
That video Esch posted reminded me of something that happened in grade school. :six:

One year we had to do something similar to Young AmeriTowne that was called "Town." Each classroom in the grade would split up into teams and develop a "business." All the other students in the other grades would visit our classrooms on designated days, be given a fixed amount of scrip, and then permitted to shop at our respective "businesses." I forget what we could use the scrip on... in my classroom it was probably privileges and what not. (We had a bizarre system of credit that you spent to use the bathroom, get a drink of water, pay for a demerit, or go on a special lunch trip to Carl's Jr--this was where I learned about debt financing btw but as always I digress.)

To date myself horribly here, my group decided to sell sports trading cards. This wasn't the best idea but it also wasn't the worst idea given that it was 199X; I think we were all mainly concerned about getting rid of a lot of excess inventory we'd all accumulated over the years more than anything.

Our teacher at the time was dating a guy who would often come around our classroom and unbeknownst to us he was extremely into sports trading cards. When he found out what our wares were for Town he arranged to purchase all manner of cards at whatever price we named because he had access to the scrip bank through his personal relationship. Since we were little shits we named (what I recall as) absurd prices for our cards, or at least prices that could never be supported by the vulgar market in which we operated. Since these sums were utterly irrelevant to our buyer he gladly paid and we more or less crushed our classmates in this exercise of bourgeois propaganda (https://i.imgur.com/Twp3VEW.jpg).

Not only did I buy myself out of using the bathroom credit hell with this endeavor but I learned a valuable lesson about the ethics (or lack thereof) in for-profit markets. 8)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on May 27, 2019, 01:16:37 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D7lpdrAXkAcwao0.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on May 28, 2019, 12:03:50 PM
^based on its early Twitter follows that account is a probable (non-state) infiltration; no idea why everyone felt the need to quote tweet / screen cap and dunk on it this weekend.

BUT SPEAKING OF MELTDOWN MAY, the other day George Ciccariello-Maher posted a photo of him and a much younger woman unprompted--like "I just graduated from university so my relationship with George Ciccariello-Maher is no longer #problematic" young--and he got ratioed for looking like a groomer / creep professor so he promptly melted the fuck down, accused people of being racist for assuming that they could tell a woman of color's age, then deactivated his account. He probably did more to set back Chavismo in a single meltdown than every buffoonish speech given by Mike Piss or comical op-ed published in the elite tiers of bourgeois press (https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-to-liberate-venezuela-11557688819).

Also there's a lot of amusing whispers about the woman too, one of which is that she forgot to turn off locations while tweeting and ended up tweeting from a U.S. military base. :doge

spoiler (click to show/hide)
A couple of years ago I was reading Building the Commune in an airport bar. The bartender asked me what I was reading and I lifted up the cover to show her without saying anything because I'm even less personable when I have to fly. Then she asked me if I was learning how to build a commune and all I could do was give a wry, knowing smile.
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on June 06, 2019, 03:46:55 AM
this BernardBro I know told me that The Conquest of Bread is "really really good, very interesting"

send help asap
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on June 06, 2019, 03:54:45 AM
How about, The Conquest of Head, and it's an anarcho-PUA guide to having sex in communes
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on June 06, 2019, 04:04:58 AM
no solo-winging allowed, only collective labor
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on June 06, 2019, 04:11:56 AM
"Let some people get laid first"—Deng Xiaoping
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on June 06, 2019, 06:16:23 AM
How about, The Conquest of Head, and it's an anarcho-PUA guide to having sex in communes
i want this written by someone like irvine welsh from the pov of those guys who go undercover investigating cults but by the end have joined the cult and are fully indoctrinated. the twist would be he's a deep state agent with a vd
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 06, 2019, 04:49:30 PM
#NotAllCommunes obviously but mine has been pretty tame in matters of the flesh over the years with the only real outlier being a comical caricature of a lumpenproletariat that even a middle class values guy like Marx would have found hard to believe. The weeb who stopped wearing pants even acts embarrassed about not wearing pants half the time our paths cross.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 08, 2019, 02:03:20 AM
There's a lot of chatter lately about corn planting being way behind schedule this year. Don't know if that's a climate change thing, a tariff thing, or a cosmic horror thing so I'm talking about it here instead of the climate change thread.

Anyway, there's a running gag on Trash Future where they remark that we live in the Soviet Union except everything costs too much so here's to Khrushchev and thinking widespread meat consumption is a development milestone. :ussrcry

Example:

https://twitter.com/kannbwx/status/1133465061559865344

Speaking of Trash Future, they had a pretty black pill climate change episode the other week and they read Jeff "Fidel took my stepdad's slaves :'(" Bezos' solution to the problem... doing Gundam (i.e. themed space colonies). The mythology of the brilliant bourgeois is more far-fetched than any ancient society could dream up.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 08, 2019, 04:45:10 AM
New episode of RevLeft is entertaining. They brought on Alyson Escalante so it's almost like an episode of Red Menace in debate form. And it's everyones favorite subject "is Marxism a science?" Some bits on historical and dialectical materialism, lysenkoism, older and newer definitions of science, etc.

https://twitter.com/RevLeftRadio/status/1132522051804155905

I listened to this (thanks for posting).

1. Not a huge fan of its use (and overuse) as a term but uncomradely seems an appropriate description for a debate between reds and blacks (no racist) about Marxism as a science that more or less veers straight into litigating Lysenkoism like it's RationalWiki outchea and drifts into non sequuntur such as the terrors in Revolutionary Catalonia.

2. This is probably demonstrative of having had my brain poisoned by liberalism but this debate really needed an """impartial""" moderator or an audience asking questions to refocus the conversation. Under no circumstances whatsoever should a debate in this space drift to a point where someone says, "social democracy did some good things too," without the very delineating statements "in the economic periphery after the end of the Cold War when few options were available" or "up until 1914 when it decided to self-immolate" appended to the end.

3. At this point in their short history I don't particularly care for Marxist Center as an organization and things like this are a large part of the reason why. Why are we entertaining the Utopian or Scientific debate in 2019? Utopianism lost quite convincingly ages ago and only exists today in RevLeft self-categorizations and the odd vestigial organization. Marxist Center describes itself as a "pre-pre-party" organization "looking to build a base" yet it does the same stuff as the extant Marxist-Leninist groups that never have.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on June 08, 2019, 10:28:14 AM
The corn planting issues are due to once-in-a-lifetime* flooding in the Midwest and Central states.

*More like once-a-year now, amirite :doge
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on June 08, 2019, 02:44:28 PM
The vast majority of that corn is for livestock anyway, hopefully beef prices soar through the roof
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: toku on June 08, 2019, 02:55:03 PM
The vast majority of that corn is for livestock anyway, hopefully beef prices soar through the roof

They will. Corn crops have suffered but farmers have lost livestock as well.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on June 08, 2019, 11:11:38 PM
I think people tend to have an idea in their head of a commune as a sort of culty, do as thou wilt in a bad way type jim jones deal but id imagine that most people in urban commune just go to work and occasionally fuck strangers like everyone else.
they also invent ridiculous terminology like "do-ocracy"
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on June 10, 2019, 03:22:40 PM
New episode of RevLeft is entertaining. They brought on Alyson Escalante so it's almost like an episode of Red Menace in debate form. And it's everyones favorite subject "is Marxism a science?" Some bits on historical and dialectical materialism, lysenkoism, older and newer definitions of science, etc.

https://twitter.com/RevLeftRadio/status/1132522051804155905

I want to send the guy who wiki'd Lysenkoism beforehand and keeps bringing it up to the gulag
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 10, 2019, 06:15:06 PM
https://theintercept.com/2019/06/09/heshmat-alavi-fake-iran-mek/

imo The Gets Intercepted doesn't make a particularly convincing case here (I believe what they're reporting, to be clear) but it's absurd that a plant who the Daily Caller (!!!) severed ties with can get peddled so widely and easily. Crime may not purportedly pay, but manufacturing political will sure seems to.

@Esch will reply when I got a moment.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 10, 2019, 09:24:43 PM
https://twitter.com/sunraysunray/status/1138211777160892416

What NBA-GAF poster was Bhaskar?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on June 10, 2019, 10:14:05 PM
socialism in the first world is just a fun roleplaying exercise and there really isn't anything to be done at all in the global north except acting as a genuine ally for the global south, or manning up and committing acts of sabotage

[/elbabua]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: toku on June 10, 2019, 11:02:29 PM
If you can't tell from my meme output, I was reading the 18th Brumaire recently and the lumpen sack of potatoes analogy stuck with me strongly. We just exist in these little fragments of social spheres, online and in the real world. We are not only split from each other by our class and the intense blurrings of those classes that distribution of financialization has created but also little isolated social pockets, leftism in the first world is mostly an aesthetic choice ffs and we act so 'uncomradely' as Kara put it behind those choices. At times it makes me think I never really left console wars.

Ed: I need to put the phone down I'm just ranting about nothing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lieJIxJZs1M
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on June 10, 2019, 11:51:58 PM
If you can't tell from my meme output, I was reading the 18th Brumaire recently and the lumpen sack of potatoes analogy stuck with me strongly. We just exist in these little fragments of social spheres, online and in the real world. We are not only split from each other by our class and the intense blurrings of those classes that distribution of financialization has created but also little isolated social pockets
SPUD: Socially Passive Urban Dweller
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on June 11, 2019, 02:21:46 AM
If you can't tell from my meme output, I was reading the 18th Brumaire recently and the lumpen sack of potatoes analogy stuck with me strongly. We just exist in these little fragments of social spheres, online and in the real world. We are not only split from each other by our class and the intense blurrings of those classes that distribution of financialization has created but also little isolated social pockets, leftism in the first world is mostly an aesthetic choice ffs and we act so 'uncomradely' as Kara put it behind those choices. At times it makes me think I never really left console wars.

Ed: I need to put the phone down I'm just ranting about nothing

After watching leftists with like 2,000 followers on Twitter get into really protracted, bitter feuds with each other I have a new appreciation for the People's Front of Judea vs. Judean People's Front gag.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on June 11, 2019, 04:50:02 PM
The Left Twitter Cycle:

-Find new account, follow them because they're smart/funny/whatever
-Come across a bunch of other accounts that hate them for some obscure reason
-Laugh at how insular and bitchy these people are
-Slowly begin to hate the original account and yourself for ever liking them
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: toku on June 11, 2019, 05:02:26 PM
twitter is only good for one thing and that's giant anime titties
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on June 11, 2019, 05:04:24 PM
(https://i.redd.it/6y56msl0ip331.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on June 11, 2019, 05:38:54 PM
twitter is only good for one thing and that's giant anime titties

100% Accurate
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 11, 2019, 07:27:03 PM
I've been on Twitter long enough to know small groups eating themselves on ideological grounds that are inscrutable to those without is not exclusively (or even predominantly) the domain of the left. Even if you're including the Hillary Clinton Revanchists in left it wouldn't be true. Very unpopular front line of discussion, everyone.

And to head it off at the pass, the most obvious one that comes to mind are the right wing wannabe militia gun nuts.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: toku on June 11, 2019, 07:35:45 PM
(https://i.redd.it/6y56msl0ip331.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/GaJNeV0.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on June 11, 2019, 07:47:03 PM
median profit margin in this country is like 12% or 15% or something across all businesses. And even then, payout ratio for shareholders goes anywhere between thirty percent and zilch, the rest being reinvested. For larger companies that can dominate markets this goes higher to 20%, maybe even 25% (APPL), and economists believe this is evidence of monopoly, but even then, spread across the entire workers of those companies, there is not a lot of profit left to reclaim in developed countries with a diverse, skilled laborforce
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 11, 2019, 09:07:38 PM
You don't have to depart from notional liberalism into surplus value appropriation, hyperexploitation of the economic periphery, et cetera for that meme to make sense: literal, de jure, wage theft is rampant (https://www.epi.org/publication/employers-steal-billions-from-workers-paychecks-each-year-survey-data-show-millions-of-workers-are-paid-less-than-the-minimum-wage-at-significant-cost-to-taxpayers-and-state-economies/).

Now why the various states department of labor don't enjoy investigatorial and corrective capabilities on par with the various state and local police forces despite the widespread and costly theft is a question liberal ideology would struggle to answer, of course, but I'm skipping a couple of tracks on the album there.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on June 11, 2019, 09:19:40 PM
Fun fact: undergrad economics students are mostly taught to use models that incorporate the assumption of zero profits.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 11, 2019, 09:51:03 PM
Fun fact: undergrad economics students are mostly taught to use models that incorporate the assumption of zero profits.

Not really related per se but I've been looking for a reason to post this here: https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/the-highlight/2019/5/14/18520783/harvard-economics-chetty

For a sensible chuckle be sure to search for "Russ Roberts" in that article.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 11, 2019, 10:33:18 PM
Linking this jeremiad is #problematic and if you want to cancel me or critically support me for doing so then I understand.

https://medium.com/@stephensrl20/socialism-deferred-how-dsa-failed-in-the-fight-against-sexual-violence-racism-3ca541333d60

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Shout out to SMB-ianca and @turing_police's favorite member of the U.S. Imperialism Caucus Jason Schulmann getting name dropped in here.
[close]

https://twitter.com/lilmissagitated/status/1138317527883247616

I think this is the first time the other party has responded publicly? Long tweet thread, be warned.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 11, 2019, 10:48:54 PM
Aren't we at the point where wage theft actually outweighs total petty theft?  I've heard this theory bandied around a couple times but couldn't find anything to support it in my Googles besides this. (https://www.epi.org/publication/wage-theft-bigger-problem-theft-protect/)

I think there was a Citations Needed about this, or at the very least Adam Johnson mentions it in passing all the time.

When it comes to violations of this nature I'm a little too insider (not to tell on myself here) to want to research the stats people have actually been able to pry out of the exchange archipelago.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
You are a member of the most oppressed segment of society, small business owners. You don't like paying payroll taxes so you just don't report payroll regularly. You still pay your employees their net checks, but they're hand checks with no accompanying pay stub to verify anything. You do this so much that your employees are issued Forms W-2 that materially misstate the work they performed and the money they were paid in a calendar year. The lucky ones file resident income tax returns. Some of them receive an incorrect Earned Income Tax Credit. Some of the lucky ones also sign up for health insurance in an Affordable Care Act exchange. Because their reported wages are materially misstated they receive inaccurate Advanced Premium Tax Credits. You buy a boat because your net operating loss carryforward can cover any lost deduction from not paying payroll taxes. The Democratic Party has won a sweeping election and suddenly everyone is very concerned about the solvency of Social Security.
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on June 13, 2019, 07:06:57 PM
https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/1139307720325156866

getting there
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on June 13, 2019, 07:12:28 PM
Expropriations of landlords and prohibiting to buy land for speculative reasons have entered the public discourse in Germany over the past weeks and months. :ussrcry
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on June 13, 2019, 07:14:40 PM
Expropriations of landlords and prohibiting to buy land for speculative reasons have entered the public discourse in Germany over the past weeks and months. :ussrcry
If you're having trouble getting the right on board with it you can make it racist, too, by raising the specter of chinese foreign investment. No nazbol, no nazbol, you're the nazbol
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on June 13, 2019, 07:17:12 PM
Don‘t need the Chinese if you can point to American tech bros like AirBnB ruining the market. :pimp

What is scarier than a huge influx of foreign capital? That‘s right, the internet.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Himu on June 13, 2019, 07:32:31 PM
Nothing of value, just talking aloud.

It’s shame libertarian has been so tainted by right libertarians in America that the mere prospect of libertarianism is scoffed by many liberals and the far left when many libertarian principles - personal liberty, personhood, stuff like that - are perfectly compatible. For example, the freedom to choose in relation to abortion. This is a libertarian - and by extension liberal expression. Definitely what happens when libertarians are ran by loons who prize businesses over people. Looking at the left libertarianism as expressed in European channels makes a lot of the principles of libertarian thought readily appealing.  I truly wonder if the left in America could gain more in-roads politically by repackaging libertarian philosophy towards its more European definition. I think the concept of libertarianism (as expressed in the European vein) is identifiably a part of American values.

My favorite strain of libertarianism is catholic libertarianism and how they (libertarian Catholics) contend that libertarian thought (in so far the American definition of the philosophy) is apparently compatible with Catholicism despite great opposition to it as officially ruled by the Church.

Further reading:

https://www.ncronline.org/news/opinion/distinctly-catholic/libertarianism-enemy-catholic-social-thought-has-no-place-america

https://www.catholicworldreport.com/2013/11/18/catholicism-and-libertarianism/
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 13, 2019, 07:34:36 PM
https://www.npr.org/2019/06/07/730346019/5-takeaways-about-the-trump-administrations-response-to-far-right-extremism

lol

e: Welcome, Cindi. 8)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Himu on June 13, 2019, 07:42:55 PM
Of course there’s libertarian socialism which is the camp I hail from. Although I’m no longer socialist I still believe in libertarianism. Unfortunately a lot of the American socialists still don’t view libertarianism with any legitimacy and who can blame them when you look at American part of the camp.

I guess you can say that it makes me sad that legitimate libertarian thought has been dummified by American masses to excuse selfish capitalism when the philosophy is mostly about human freedom. Unfortunately they have decided that freedom means the freedom to do whatever the hell I want rather than the genuine expression that human life inherently deserves dignity.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on June 13, 2019, 07:50:06 PM
Cindi, I think you have some ideas mixed up. Libertarianism is about deleting your Facebook and joining a Mastodon server so you can buy loli porn with bitcoin, whereas socialism is fundamentally concerned with supporting the Syrian Baathist party when they need you the most.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 13, 2019, 07:53:43 PM
Donald Hughes had a good analysis of libsoc.

https://twitter.com/getfiscal/status/1022430771217358848

e: Don't search his name and libertarian socialism on Twitter, though!
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on June 13, 2019, 08:10:10 PM
This reminds me that a few weeks ago I got sucked down a rabbit hole for two hours investigating this YouTube channel belonging to what I believe to be a North Korean dissident advocating for "Juche Capitalism". These videos are all basically audio ripped from random ancap videos online or heavy metal set against completely random background imagery. They're also all terrible except for this one

https://youtu.be/2L6M3_7YFm8
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on June 13, 2019, 08:14:59 PM
"What if instead of a Playboy heiress becoming a bipolar tankie on Twitter, Red Kahina was the daughter of a state official in North Korea who used her very rare internet access to edit bizarre videos of anarcho capitalist Juche syncretism on YouTube?" Fire the writer
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on June 13, 2019, 08:29:23 PM
Bire’s law: All discussion on the Bire leads inevitably to the Yugoslav wars.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on June 13, 2019, 08:58:22 PM
This reminds me that a few weeks ago I got sucked down a rabbit hole for two hours investigating this YouTube channel

can't wait for the nytimes cover story on shosta's radicalization via algorithm
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on June 13, 2019, 09:23:38 PM
What even counts as the libsoc canon such that we can say that it’s badly theorized? Or is that the point: there is nothing worth putting into a canon?

Rejection or criticism of Bakunin, Proudhon, Kropotkin etc. doesn't come from thin air.
the reverence paid to Marx by marxists specifically for his polemics against the anarchist part of the internationales and/or other left hegelians is one of the most annoying things I see in meaningless internet lefter-than-thou discourse.

There are only two texts that ever made me want to rip my eyes out of my sockets and the second one was the back part of the German ideology after he gets done talking about feuerbach
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 13, 2019, 09:41:44 PM
That's the point. :)

spoiler (click to show/hide)
"Google Rob Paul Venezuela Murray Bookchin" is a meme for a reason.
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on June 14, 2019, 12:14:52 AM
As for Marx's mountain dew fueled gamer rages, well we all have them. I think it's understandable given  the forums posting taking place between the two of them. (https://i.imgur.com/UAPpyij.jpg)
right. all of these guys were up to their eyeballs in bigoted horseshit, some of which was baked into their thought. they deserve no veneration. no writer does.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
no idols, no gods, burn everything
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on June 14, 2019, 12:57:11 AM
My impression was that Marx was an enormous prick, especially when he was young.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on June 14, 2019, 01:33:41 AM
Engels and the magyars :doge
im trying to find the piece where he praises American expansion into Mexico in the 1840s. it’s p much the lazy mexican talking point verbatim

I was gonna care post something like ‘going reminder that mid-late 19th century racism was typically worse than the enlightenment’s’ but then I remembered all those pages e.g. Hume and Kant spent shitting on black and brown people. Like, I still think that claim is mostly right, but it’s probably more important to point out the deep, deep damage that the colonial encounter’s done to the moral psychology of everyone -even the people we’d expect would know better.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 14, 2019, 03:15:59 AM
Looking forward to the continued, public debate about free speech rights in the opinion pages of the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, et cetera!

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/daily-labor-report/deflate-the-rat-labor-board-asks-court-to-stop-union-protest

spoiler (click to show/hide)
I made this exact same post months ago and it was about as prescient as I thought it would be.
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on June 14, 2019, 04:13:18 AM
Who would quit their day job after reading Kapital? Not even Marx and Engels did that to write and publish everything they ever wrote. :doge

Not to veer away from (my) sociopolitical angst but this had me :dead

I didn't know.John Stossel was on this wave now.

https://twitter.com/adamjohnsonNYC/status/1138165329195163649
a little inside baseball, that figure being so specific because it was more or less revealed that one arm of the Foundation did not know the other arm was paying him that much, they thought it was more of a mutual advertising thing because his multi-million dollar Fox Contract would indicate there's no point in paying Stossel that much (also nobody actually watches most of the YouTube videos anyway unless some Democrat-friendly outlet/channel starts "debunking" them)

lets' just say that Nick Gillespe's reason.tv editorialship and Matt Welch's supposed oversight is being re-evaluated and there's a reason KMW is now editor-in-chief over all content and the divide between the magazine, the YouTube content ("reason.tv") and the Foundation's publications no longer exists as it did under those two

the Foundation will still publish separately because it does "studies" as a pseduothinktank but everyone is now listed under the same masthead and some people got voluntarily retired

I have no idea why reason.tv ever existed as a thing and they don't just say it's the fucking YouTube channel

It’s shame libertarian has been so tainted by right libertarians in America that the mere prospect of libertarianism is scoffed by many liberals and the far left when many libertarian principles - personal liberty, personhood, stuff like that - are perfectly compatible. For example, the freedom to choose in relation to abortion. This is a libertarian - and by extension liberal expression. Definitely what happens when libertarians are ran by loons who prize businesses over people. Looking at the left libertarianism as expressed in European channels makes a lot of the principles of libertarian thought readily appealing.  I truly wonder if the left in America could gain more in-roads politically by repackaging libertarian philosophy towards its more European definition. I think the concept of libertarianism (as expressed in the European vein) is identifiably a part of American values.
there are historical reasons for this

Libertarianism in Europe and libertarianism in America were never the same movement except for how they split off of anarchism, European libertarianism hewed closer to anarchism as a movement because of its lack of historical ideological ties across the continent THEN it imported American libertarianism, American libertarianism was steeped in American historicalism, in other words, the American libertarians played off of the American founding doctrines/myths and like most American movements it NEVER imported European changes.

Essentially, "left-libertarianism" never happened in the U.S. and "right-libertarianism" never happened in Europe until the late 20th Century. Original "libertarians" in the United States would mostly not be recognizable* as "right-libertarians" but they are nonetheless highly recognizable American libertarians/anarchists/communists with a stress on the American.

I actually contest the divide more broadly, in fact, I consider the distinct stand you likely identify as "right-libertarianism" to be strongly influenced by Ayn Rand and Objectivism minus the cult part but definitely including the atheist part. This is related to the founding of The Party which was a HUGE thing specific to the American libertarian movement. Karl Hess was once the most famous distinctly American libertarian outside of Ayn Rand. The Party had no interest in him and vice versa no matter how many times everyone, especially Rothbard (the non-Rand father of modern American libertarianism), tried to merge them to work together. Hayek and von Mises were notably critical of conservatism and emphasized the European liberalism they associated with libertarianism, Hayek detested the Party and von Mises considered it a fools errand.

Rothbard, however, was not and his period as unelected head of The Party despite rejecting the Objectivists for the most part in the end resulted in the "conservatarian" alliance that ultimately focused on Pat Buchanan as the libertarian savior. (Much to Ron Paul's displeasure, this is why he left and went back to the Republicans. Yes, I know it makes no sense, but remember these are people and factors other than ideology are involved.) When this utterly failed (and Rothbard admitted it while Rockwell saw the failing as the movement not being racist enough to win over the majority of voters) it spread all over the movement while essentially rendering The Party as a lifeless shell that existed purely to be momentarily seized by whichever faction got enough people to the Convention at any one moment.

The still biggest divide in the movement is and will remain immigration. Pro-life libertarians have shown consistently they will vote for pro-choice libertarians, and vice versa. However anti-immigrant libertarians will not vote for pro-immigration libertarians, they will vote for anti-immigrant conservatives first, and vice versa.

Ironically, Karl Hess was finally won over into The Party by the Pat Buchanan is Awesome and Will Totally Win and Let Us Eliminate The State Plan.

What did die in the United States from the original American libertarians was arguably anarchism of a non-anarcho-capitalist ideal. Mutualism, going off and making your own communes with blackjack and hookers, etc. was utterly rejected for its inability to erode the increasing power of the American State (even though this was never the point) and they mostly just faded away as serious groups. As European libertarianism never actually led to anywhere except small irrelevant groups that can't even found fringe Parties, this never happened and they remained stronger strains of the overall movement. Also Objectivism and Rothbardism landed with heavy duds.

Modern American "left-libertarinism" is arguably nothing worth talking about because there's three strands of which only one looks anything like the European version, the irrelevant academic one that stays true to the originals and yells at people to read their Rose Wilder Lane, the "Libertarian Democrats" and "bleeding heart libertarians" who exist purely to justify reasons to join and vote straight-ticket always for the Democratic Party and support the New Deal/Great Society state while asking that they not war so much, and people who post on C4SS until they get in a dumb fight which apparently requires them to RENOUNCE ANARCHISM AS FLAWED.

This misnamed Radicals for Capitalism actually spends a good chunk on the pre-Party libertarians who were not universally capitalists, it was Rand and the hard turn into The Party that led to the elevation of "capitalism" above anything else in the movement. One might lay that at Rand's feet too as she spent all her life saying she was not a libertarian as libertarians are losers who refuse to seize power and enact Objectivism by force. A bunch of people said "you know, that bitch is right, we need a Political Party!" And so they did and it was really funny for decades on end.

*except that loved creating their own currencies

spoiler (click to show/hide)
I love that libertarianism is marked as a spelling error by browsers while libertarian is not and by love I mean it drives me insane thinking I just spelled everything in the above paragraphs wrong.
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on June 14, 2019, 04:46:10 AM
Quote
Hayek and von Mises were notably critical of conservatism and emphasized the European liberalism they associated with libertarianism,
im gonna read ‘emphasized’ as ‘made it their life’s work to reanimate after its catastrophic failures in the first half of the 20th century’ if that’s alright with you

spoiler (click to show/hide)
there are two minor :expert folds in this part of the narrative:
1. Interactions with/rejections of Röpke and other ordoliberal approaches on the continent, esp. Germany/Austria
2. For whatever reason (party capture? is that a thing?) most of the leadership/influential figures within the libert movement don’t catch onto the neoclassical synthesis and stick to their Austrian guns. Hayek, because he wasn’t a crank like the rest of them, and was, you know, legit smart, games both sides.
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on June 14, 2019, 05:26:37 AM
emphasized in comparison to American liberalism and conservatism, which I guess makes sense since they're both Europeans

other than a few essays that they never really followed up on, I'm not sure either produced anything after the war worth bothering with, especially not Law, Legislation and Liberty; von Mises essentially had retired after getting to the U.S. and publishing the stuff he was sitting on and then especially published the same resummaries of Socialism, Liberalism and Bureaucracy over and over and over again and his institute seems to think this is totally the best way to achieve praxis :doge
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 14, 2019, 03:20:29 PM
Computer, show me the most Jacobin headline in existence.

https://twitter.com/jacobinmag/status/1139156716581478405

spoiler (click to show/hide)
:mynicca
 https://twitter.com/sunraysunray/status/1139552424924983296
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on June 14, 2019, 03:23:39 PM
Quote
The activists and parliamentarians of the SPD came from modest backgrounds, with little formal education. Their parliament, the Reichstag, stood more for the idea of democracy than its reality, and despite support from a broad swath of the German working class, the party had no influence over the formation of government. Figuratively flipping the building on its head, they transformed the Reichstag into a forum to go toe to toe with the powerful, giving workers a sense of being avenged and providing a model of courage through a canny strategy of political education, media distribution, and biting speeches.

Was this copy&pasted from the “about us“ of the SPD homepage?  :doge
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on June 14, 2019, 03:33:53 PM
Wer hat uns verraten? Sozialdemokraten!
(Who has betrayed us? Soical Democrats! just doesn‘t have the same ring to it in English) has been a rallying cry of the left for over a hundred years for a reason.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Rufus on June 14, 2019, 03:50:12 PM
Oh! Any stories? :hyper
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on June 14, 2019, 03:53:37 PM
All the SPD / GDR talk. I forgot to post this from when I went to Germany :doge

(https://i.imgur.com/kyVbwWI_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium)

Looking this up now:
It was a festival with a panel discussion along with an art display and some theatrical plays.

Which means: Some crap only virgin Trotskyists would show up for. :donot
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 14, 2019, 03:54:13 PM
Wer hat uns verraten? Sozialdemokraten!
(Who has betrayed us? Soical Democrats! just doesn‘t have the same ring to it in English)

This bops, like "essen nicht fressen" tier. 
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on June 14, 2019, 03:56:11 PM
Wer hat uns verraten? Sozialdemokraten!
(Who has betrayed us? Soical Democrats! just doesn‘t have the same ring to it in English) has been a rallying cry of the left for over a hundred years for a reason.
was it limited to the left? or does it get appropriated by right wingers later on in the interwar period?

I’ve seen the whole first season of Babylon Berlin so I consider myself something of an expert on this
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Rufus on June 14, 2019, 04:10:29 PM
Wer hat uns verraten? Sozialdemokraten!
(Who has betrayed us? Soical Democrats! just doesn‘t have the same ring to it in English) has been a rallying cry of the left for over a hundred years for a reason.
was it limited to the left? or does it get appropriated by right wingers later on in the interwar period?

I’ve seen the whole first season of Babylon Berlin so I consider myself something of an expert on this

Repopularized by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc-Uwe_Kling about 10 years ago (fuck me, time flies :stahp ). These days it's mostly lefties unhappy with the Schröder and Merkel-coalition SPD.

Lyrics from his version:
spoiler (click to show/hide)
Quote
Es gibt da so 'nen Spruch von den alten Kommunisten
mit dem die 1918 ihre falschen Freunde dissten.
Natürlich ham wa heute 'ne andere politische Lage.
Und trotzdem passt der Spruch irgendwie in uns're Tage.

Wer hat uns verraten? Sozialdemokraten!
Wer hat uns verraten? Wer hat uns verkauft?
Wer hat uns verraten? Sozialdemokraten!
Die ham' uns verraten und die ham' uns auch verkauft.

Ich glaub ich mach 'n Lied daraus mit 'nem Arbeiterkinderchor
Die singen den Refrain dann ihren arbeitlosen Eltern vor.
Es singen schon die Angestellten, die Studenten und die Bauern.
Bald singen sogar die, die noch um Ludwig Ehrhard trauern.

Wer hat uns verraten? Sozialdemokraten!
Wer hat uns verraten? Wer hat uns verkauft?
Wer hat uns schlecht beraten? Sozialdemokraten!
Die ham' uns verraten und die ham' uns auch verkauft.


Karl Liebknecht hatte diesen Spruch auf seinem Schreibtisch stehn.
Und er hängt als Poster heut' bei Oskar Lafontaine.
Und auch in Schleswig-Holstein versteht man gut den Sinn
Dort flüsterst's Heide Simonis beim Tango vor sich hin.

Wer hat mich verraten? Sozialdemokraten!
Wer hat mich verraten? Wer hat mich verkauft?
Wer hat uns verraten? Sozialdemokraten!
Die ham' uns verraten und die ham' uns auch verkauft.

Und die Neuwahl die ham' die ja verloren, damit muss man sich ja befassen
Jetzt kann man endlich aus vollstem Herzen die Regierung wieder hassen.
Ja das Schiff das ist am sinken und die Ratten die flohen sofort.
Doch sie kamen wieder zurück und brachten die schwarze Pest an Bord.

Wer, wer, wer, wer, wer hat uns verraten?
Das war'n doch, sag mal war'n das nicht… Sozialdemokraten.
Das waren die Sozialdemokraten, die ham' uns verraten.
Die ham' uns verraten, die ham' uns verkauft.

Der Sozialstaat und der Sozialismus die sind beide tot.
Übrig sind nur hohle Phrasen und literweise rot.
Und wer steht an ihren Gräbern und hält lächelnd noch die Spaten?
Sagt nichts, lasst mich raten... Sozialdemokraten.
Und das ganze schöne Geld, wer hat's an die Reichen verbraten?
Das waren doch, sag mal waren das nicht... die Sozialdemokraten.

Wer hat uns verraten, wer hat so viel Geld?
Wer hat so viel Pinkepinke, wer hat das bestellt?
Wer, wer, wer, wer, wer hat uns verraten?
Wer, wer, wer, wer, wer hat uns verraten?
Wer, wer, wer, wer, wer hat uns verkauft?
[close]

Google Translate (passable, but full of funky word choices):
spoiler (click to show/hide)
Quote
There's a saying about the old Communists
with whom the 1918 disperse their wrong friends.
Of course, today we have a different political situation.
And yet the saying fits in somehow in our days.

Who betrayed us? Social Democrats!
Who betrayed us? Who sold us?
Who betrayed us? Social Democrats!
The ham 'betrayed us and the ham' s also sold us.

I think I'll make a song out of it with a working-class children's choir
They sing the chorus to their unemployed parents.
The staff, the students and the farmers are singing.
Soon even those who still grieve for Ludwig Ehrhard are singing.

Who betrayed us? Social Democrats!
Who betrayed us? Who sold us?
Who gave us bad advice? Social Democrats!
The ham 'betrayed us and the ham' s also sold us.


Karl Liebknecht had this spell on his desk.
And he hangs as poster today at Oskar Lafontaine.
And also in Schleswig-Holstein one understands well the sense
There, Heide Simonis whispers to himself at the tango.

Who betrayed me? Social Democrats!
Who betrayed me? Who sold me?
Who betrayed us? Social Democrats!
The ham 'betrayed us and the ham' s also sold us.

And the new election, the ham 'yes lost, so you have to deal with yes
Now you can finally hate the government again with all your heart.
Yes, the ship is sinking and the rats fled immediately.
But they came back and brought the black plague on board.

Who, who, who, who, who betrayed us?
That was it, tell me it was not ... Social Democrats.
They were the Social Democrats who betrayed us.
The ham 'betrayed us, the ham' sold us.

The welfare state and socialism are both dead.
All that remains are hollow phrases and gallons of red.
And who stands at their graves and still smiling holds the spade?
Say nothing, let me guess ... Social Democrats.
And all the nice money, who's got it to the rich?
That was it, tell me, that was not ... the Social Democrats.

Who betrayed us, who has so much money?
Who has so much Pinkepinke, who ordered this?
Who, who, who, who, who betrayed us?
Who, who, who, who, who betrayed us?
Who, who, who, who, who sold us?
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Rufus on June 14, 2019, 04:18:16 PM
The street art, and public transport were amazing. It's so painful to get a glimpse of what a good system looks like  :-\ . I stayed in friedrichschain, and spent most of my time in kreuzberg and mitte. I don't know if i would visit Berlin again, but I think it might be nice to live there. The people were a little standoffish, but hey, I don't speak german so that's probably on me.
Yet we constantly bitch about public transport. :lol

For what it's worth, the rest of Germany ("we're just being direct") thinks Berliners are rude. Only one I ever met was a cute Vietnamese girl who was very nice, so...
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 14, 2019, 04:30:44 PM
I mostly focused on history, I did a walking tour of berlin with the perfect tour guide: a neoliberal israeli who hated the soviets + gdr and loves germany :doge :doge :doge

What's next, the Prime Minister of Israel getting chummy with Vic "I closed a university associated with George Soros" Orban?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on June 14, 2019, 04:33:14 PM
Wer hat uns verraten? Sozialdemokraten!
(Who has betrayed us? Soical Democrats! just doesn‘t have the same ring to it in English) has been a rallying cry of the left for over a hundred years for a reason.
was it limited to the left? or does it get appropriated by right wingers later on in the interwar period?

I’ve seen the whole first season of Babylon Berlin so I consider myself something of an expert on this

Off the top of my head, I couldn’t tell you. I am not aware of it, but the NSDAP and their Strasserist Arbeiterflügel sure could have adopted it.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on June 14, 2019, 04:43:28 PM
Btw. IMO Berlin is a trash tier city. If I had to pick cities to live in, Berlin would finish pretty much last.  :doge
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 14, 2019, 05:27:59 PM
Just got "SPD" in a captcha on the California Franchise Tax Board website. :hans1
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 15, 2019, 03:35:01 AM
mods are asleep, time to benji post itt

Nate's having a normal one:

https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1139195893549342720
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 15, 2019, 03:38:44 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/vmuKoT8.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 15, 2019, 03:41:09 AM
For the Hillary Clinton revanchists.

https://twitter.com/Madonna/status/786105573364359168
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on June 15, 2019, 06:44:43 AM
Big ups to my french tour guide suggesting that my s/o and I use our professional talents to start firms in our specialties and hire out the majority of work to people of our same ethnicities back in their respective third world countries "at a fraction of the cost!" to keep ourselves in the black. "You can use your cultural connections to build something"

He was a retired finance guy. P. good Louvre tour though.

You could have left me a tip tho.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 15, 2019, 12:21:20 PM
Wonder why a longshot nobody in the Democratic Primary gets airtime on CNN to talk about the threat in second / third place. Sure it has nothing to do with him being firmly in the pocket of extractive industries.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 15, 2019, 01:41:41 PM
 :holeup :goty2

https://twitter.com/USArmy/status/1139624888967340036
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on June 15, 2019, 02:25:00 PM
Quote
However, readers should note that Xi offers very little in the way of classical Marxist exegesis to justify his claim that “an economic system in which publicly owned enterprises are the principle part” and the “political system of the National People’s Congress”  are the natural extension of Marxist theory to current world conditions. The claim is asserted more than proven; one suspects he would rather not have the readers of Qiushi thinking too hard about the details of classical Marxist texts.
This forward seems a little biased ::)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Rufus on June 15, 2019, 02:54:58 PM
:holeup :goty2

https://twitter.com/USArmy/status/1139624888967340036
Starship Troopers is our future. :goty
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on June 15, 2019, 08:10:55 PM
https://twitter.com/sunraysunray/status/1139986777823948803

https://twitter.com/sunraysunray/status/1140042119123558409

I'm not sure I follow the "Nazis are capitalists"line but that one left me :confused
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on June 15, 2019, 08:42:08 PM
Many socialists have analyses of fascism that it is capitalism in extreme decay of some sort, wherein the ruling class turn up the boot on the proletariat, borrowing tactics inspired by and reminiscent of imperialism and colonialism. Parenti wrote a whole section of Blackshirts and Reds, Losurdo has similar analysis apparently in Liberalism A Counter History. I have yet to read the latter.

Oh I'm not too baffled by that, I'm familiar with the very rough outline, I just don't necessarily agree but that's not the issue. I'm more dubious of the whole 1933 remarks who at a glance seems to take some hazy lessons of the events then and to project some present considerations from current US politics to German (or European ?) 1933 realities.

There were few Popular Fronts actually achieved in reality, that didn't include Germany (because I assume the "We're in 1933 and there's Nazis" mean that but maybe it's Europe. Doesn't affect the criticism), and quickly the Popular Front were made irrelevant because of collaboration alright but not the one he has in mind. Containing the far right by "class collaboration" with wide party coalition only became a thing fairly recently in Europe so I don't see how it is what put us in the mess. It makes more sense from an US perspective with the rigid bipartism - obligatory big tent approach, but that's pretty specific.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 15, 2019, 09:47:49 PM
I'm more dubious of the whole 1933 remarks who at a glance seems to take some hazy lessons of the events then and to project some present considerations from current US politics to German (or European ?) 1933 realities.

There were few Popular Fronts actually achieved in reality, that didn't include Germany (because I assume the "We're in 1933 and there's Nazis" mean that but maybe it's Europe. Doesn't affect the criticism), and quickly the Popular Front were made irrelevant because of collaboration alright but not the one he has in mind. Containing the far right by "class collaboration" with wide party coalition only became a thing fairly recently in Europe so I don't see how it is what put us in the mess. It make more sense from an US perspective with the rigid bipartism - obligatory big tent approach, but that's pretty specific.

"I wanna do a historical analogy here, with the proviso that 99% of historical analogies are bullshit, right? . . . But 1% are good, the ones that are developed by Friedrich Engels, and, myself." -Matt Karp, AKP 50th Episode Ergenekon

spoiler (click to show/hide)
I was saving this quote as an epigraph for a lengthy reply to Esch's post about us being sacks of potatoes but I don't have lengthy politics posts in me atm. :stahp
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 15, 2019, 09:51:00 PM
Evergreen tweet.

https://twitter.com/colonialpanic/status/1139963734112264196
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on June 15, 2019, 10:54:09 PM
https://twitter.com/sunraysunray/status/1139986777823948803

lmao Sunkara has only gotten his small degree of notoriety by appealing to the mores of the media and wonk crowd. Building socialism one Vox profile at a time : :like
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on June 16, 2019, 06:50:14 AM
Since we have some Marxist alumni, what's the TLDR on the upcoming Green transition ? Because I would imagine it could classify as factoring in a mutation of the mode of production alongside automation. It strikes me as a global enough issue and it's certainly a material imperative.

It's not entering disconnect from the preceding discussion because as far as Europe is concerned it's pretty clear that the usual leftist talking points (labor conditions, material well being of the workers) is not cutting it anymore regardless of its merits and especially so with the "workers" (or how you want to classify its supposed natural demographic base). My layman impression is that the response to this in Europe is to argue that it the left is inhibited in what it can offer because of the EU but Euroskeptic Left parties are not really making any more inroads despite offering that and that more voters prefer the far right version of that argument. That might be because the left has to reconcile this with its own baked in globalism / internationalism calling. Whatever it may be, it's clear the ecological concerns are a rising force in politics that will flow in all of the political spectrum. Current Green parties are clearly on the left but it's probably not an inherent, immobile essence as far ecology is concerned. It is starting to get urgent to anchor it on the left to unify the vote. Well at least that's how I feel with my coffee and cigarettes.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on June 16, 2019, 01:59:48 PM
Yesterday I was looking into the specifics of Hong Kong's governance and I found out that the seats in the legislature are evenly split between Geographical Constituencies, which is your normal popularly elected representative, and so-called Functional Constituencies, which are seats awarded to special interest groups, most of which are industry. The corporations get to directly vote, and they get HALF THE SEATS. That's absolutely amazing.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 16, 2019, 02:43:26 PM
https://twitter.com/JFXM/status/1140302821671297025
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on June 16, 2019, 04:10:59 PM
.
I felt like I was out of my fuckin mind looking at pictures of protesters waving the british flag last week
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 16, 2019, 04:41:49 PM
Been keeping quiet about the Hong Kong thing because I support the right of nations to pursue socialism by different paths that are dictated by the conditions in those countries. However, I did let out a knowing chuckle when I read an Anti-Beijing Camp guy say that allowing Hong Kongers to be extradited for doing crimes would impede the business climate in Hong Kong.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on June 16, 2019, 05:38:32 PM
 :dead
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on June 16, 2019, 06:10:47 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/z2dze2O.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 16, 2019, 06:18:06 PM
Some of these are really great though.

(https://i.imgur.com/EmXBBPr_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium)
(https://i.imgur.com/Pcu5j5f_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium)

 :dead Chinese colonists get out !! :dead
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on June 17, 2019, 11:59:09 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/QbsP8f1.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 17, 2019, 12:22:49 PM
^dildos bring joy to people of all stripes, the only people Chuck Schumer brings joy to are the ones on Wall Street

Anyway:

(https://i.imgur.com/UykGBMb.jpg)

*looks at The Bore's Chernobyl thread*

 :hitler

 :kermit
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 17, 2019, 01:02:03 PM
Not my hot take, but I'm looking forward to the prestige TV show about Union Carbide in India.

Anyway, I was posting to highlight the first dependent clause and not the second one. There are only so many threads that can be sidetracked with communist plots before you become #problematic.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on June 17, 2019, 01:15:52 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/LTT6fjv.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on June 17, 2019, 07:48:00 PM
Anyone got any good resources on the transition to feudalism from 'slave society'? thanks :gopnik

I read The Origins of Family already.

ed: it doesn't even have to be marxist specifically, any resource on the origins of feudal society would be cool

A number of prominent French historians had numerous works on middle ages and feudalism in France. Duby and Le Goff for instance, I've read one book by both IIRC. Don't know how well it was translated in English.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on June 17, 2019, 07:58:13 PM
https://twitter.com/isaiah_kb/status/1140758890713427969


(https://i.imgur.com/VPw4NsQ.jpg)


cusack da gawd :rejoice
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on June 17, 2019, 08:20:08 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/V2FWUSJ.jpg) 8)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on June 17, 2019, 08:27:30 PM
Anyone got any good resources on the transition to feudalism from 'slave society'? thanks :gopnik

I read The Origins of Family already.

ed: it doesn't even have to be marxist specifically, any resource on the origins of feudal society would be cool

A number of prominent French historians had numerous works on middle ages and feudalism in France. Duby and Le Goff for instance, I've read one book by both IIRC. Don't know how well it was translated in English.

Speaking of French historians: Marc Bloch wrote a monograph about Feudalism is well. :trumps
Bloch is always worth reading, even though I am sure some of his claims will be outdated by now.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on June 17, 2019, 08:28:12 PM
Since we have some Marxist alumni, what's the TLDR on the upcoming Green transition ? Because I would imagine it could classify as factoring in a mutation of the mode of production alongside automation. It strikes me as a global enough issue and it's certainly a material imperative.

It's not entering disconnect from the preceding discussion because as far as Europe is concerned it's pretty clear that the usual leftist talking points (labor conditions, material well being of the workers) is not cutting it anymore regardless of its merits and especially so with the "workers" (or how you want to classify its supposed natural demographic base). My layman impression is that the response to this in Europe is to argue that it the left is inhibited in what it can offer because of the EU but Euroskeptic Left parties are not really making any more inroads despite offering that and that more voters prefer the far right version of that argument. That might be because the left has to reconcile this with its own baked in globalism / internationalism calling. Whatever it may be, it's clear the ecological concerns are a rising force in politics that will flow in all of the political spectrum. Current Green parties are clearly on the left but it's probably not an inherent, immobile essence as far ecology is concerned. It is starting to get urgent to anchor it on the left to unify the vote. Well at least that's how I feel with my coffee and cigarettes.

I hoped someone smarter or more well read would respond to this but I'll give a couple thoughts.

There are some obvious environmental contradictions in a system where:

1) production occurs for profit and not according to need.
2) a small group of people (e.g. Koch brothers) can AstroTurf blatantly anti environmental policy. This is not in the people's interest.
3) an insane amount of productive power is wasted on products and services that really fuck up the environment

Raising the forces of production does create a lot of waste and use energy, but we've seen China for example make a lot of progress on clean energy technology in a short time despite being the worlds personal factory, whereas all bougie states are bandying about carbon taxes in confusion even in good cases. I'm not sure what Marxist party lines are on this, but I've noticed that even people who would call themselves capitalist or succdems at best have noticed the contradictions in the system hurtling us toward ecological collapse. Otherwise the #lsc movement wouldn't be so popular. Or something like Extinction Rebellion if you aren't an extremely online dork like me.

To piggyback on this I think the orthodox Marxist answer would be that capital is by its very nature inclined to seek out new centers of profit which will lead to overproduction and overconsumption of resources, which puts us on an inevitable road to ecological collapse, so capital must be abolished and environmentalism goes hand-in-hand with anti-capitalism. The Green New Deal would be an example of something in the US that tries to wed ecological concerns to socialist politics even if everything it proposes is guiding and managing capital with an occasional wink at transitioning to a new mode of production.
My impression as an idiot American is that the European left's problems are the same ones that always bedevil the left, the national question and the tendency towards chauvinism among a privileged stratum of labor, with obviously many particularities specific to the local situation.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on June 17, 2019, 08:32:39 PM
From Slavery to Feudalism in South-Western Europe by Pierre Bonassie.

I remember citing passages from that book way back when. I don‘t know  if it‘s a good read though.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on June 17, 2019, 08:38:46 PM
Anyone got any good resources on the transition to feudalism from 'slave society'? thanks :gopnik

I read The Origins of Family already.

ed: it doesn't even have to be marxist specifically, any resource on the origins of feudal society would be cool

A number of prominent French historians had numerous works on middle ages and feudalism in France. Duby and Le Goff for instance, I've read one book by both IIRC. Don't know how well it was translated in English.

Speaking of French historians: Marc Bloch wrote a monograph about Feudalism is well. :trumps
Bloch is always worth reading, even though I am sure some of his claims will be outdated by now.

It's not stricto sensu the topic and a flimsy conparison but having Bloch recollection of WW2 (the part he lived to saw) it's indeed a pleasant writer but maybe somewhat dated conclusions.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on June 17, 2019, 08:44:51 PM
As with regards to the Green and Marxism question, I hear both of you but in those approach ecological issues are an effect and a bit of an afterthought. I thought that maybe some theorists started considering it as its own set of material factors forcing a change of the mode of production and a reason to revisit what the road to Socialism entails.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on June 17, 2019, 08:52:23 PM
Anyone got any good resources on the transition to feudalism from 'slave society'? thanks :gopnik
in short, slavery was very common, even integral, to what we now call Europe up until about the 11th century*; and ‘feudalism’ is too loose a concept to apply over an extensive period of time and/or space and, as a result, is mostly useless.

*cf. McCormick, origins of the European economy

spoiler (click to show/hide)
’feudalism’ is at best an ideal type with about three different meanings and at worst a misreading of contract/fealty obligations that gets imposed onto contexts where it didn’t obtain. There’s been a lot of work over the past ~40ish years towards deflating the prevalence/importance of ‘feudal’ interpretations of social or economic or legal or political ties in medieval Europe. The annales schoolers -some of whom vomkriege and bismarckie mentioned- we’re somewhat paradigmatic in propagating the ‘myth of feudalism’ what with their mentalités allowing them to dump whatever phenomena they wanted into a box and call it a real historical artifact. But the ‘myth’ is a construction over the very long-term, starting in the early modern period by lawyers and historians looking to codify and legitimize the advent of a new period of history over against a backward ‘middle ages’.

The criticism of the specifically Marxist understanding of ‘feudalism’ is that there’s no reason to assume any kind of affinity between, say, northern French manorialism in the 13th century, Spanish encomiendas in the 15th, and English enclosure in the 16th. Additionally, Classical/Political Marxism obv uses a really robust realism wrt historical periodization that really doesn’t jive well with post-cultural turn social science/humanities. The people in the latter camps would be quick to argue for i) an explanatory framework that provincializes these European institutions and ii) a commitment to antirealism/constructivism about historical periodization.
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on June 17, 2019, 09:03:04 PM
Since my background is in legal history, if we don‘t trust in legal documents, we might as well live in anarchy and chaos. :hmph

Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 17, 2019, 09:07:52 PM
English enclosure is usually the beginning of primitive accumulation in materialist conceptions of history?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on June 17, 2019, 09:18:56 PM
English enclosure is usually the beginning of primitive accumulation in materialist conceptions of history?
right. The materialist needs a causal account linking it with some preceding ‘feudalism’ and I’m saying you can’t do that with what ‘feudalism’ is typically modeled after (and was in Marx and Engels’ day).

affinity might not’ve been the right word
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 17, 2019, 09:22:21 PM
Thanks for clarifying. :)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on June 17, 2019, 09:24:09 PM
As with regards to the Green and Marxism question, I hear both of you but in those approach ecological issues are an effect and a bit of an afterthought. I thought that maybe some theorists started considering it as its own set of material factors forcing a change of the mode of production and a reason to revisit what the road to Socialism entails.

The New Left Review just had a whole string of articles debating basically this topic, broadly boiling down to degrowth vs a green investment plan, but unfortunately it's all paywalled. Robert Pollin and Jason Hickel are two names you can look up, although I'm not knowledgeable enough to say they're the best reps for their respective camps.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 17, 2019, 09:33:31 PM
The degrowth camp is problematic because a lot of the time it feels like it's informed by things that stopped existing (like Cuba after the fall of the Soviet Union but before the rise of Chavismo in Venezuela). The green growth side on the other hand feels a little too inductive in its reasoning when it says we'll be fine to grow if we're growing based on needs instead of wants / profits.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 17, 2019, 10:18:58 PM
To me the operative question to ask is why was the Montreal Protocol successful but Kyoto, Paris et cetera failed? (Besides the fact that the former solved a much smaller problem.) Moneyed interests have undue influence in bourgeois states by design, but bourgeois states have the internal contradiction of being at least nominally liberal.

It'd be nice to stop killing the planet while building socialism but I don't think horizon on that is far enough out to permit it because it has to happen in the U.S. And while green politics are generally conceived of as a left position the most successful green party in the economic core could be charitably described as "the Freie Demokratische Partei for people who like to sort their rubbish." Green liberalism exists and we're going to have to align with it.

If there's any kind of radical transformation we can insert ourselves into strategic industries instead of repeating the mistake made with tech (not entering it at all) and leverage that after we're all not dead. If it's just something simple like "requiring the market to actually price climate degradation into itself" then I guess it's back to the drawing board.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 17, 2019, 10:19:11 PM
^log out, Earl Browder
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on June 17, 2019, 10:29:18 PM
I didn‘t expect a FDP reference. :obama


(https://www.welt.de/img/politik/mobile100498662/2722504647-ci102l-w1024/genscher-party-kissinger-DW-Politik-BERLIN-jpg.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on June 17, 2019, 10:37:08 PM
You‘re right though, look who is voting for green parties: Young voters with higher education and in the upper third of the income bracket. To describe them as left would be a misnomer, especially when it comes to economic factors. I refer to the greens, as the cynic that I am, as the party people vote for to feel better about themselves while they are driving an SUV and shop at our equivalent to Whole Foods.
Heck, the minister-president of the State Baden-Württemberg is from the green party, but if nobody told you, you would think he is the same kind of CDU politician that have ruled that state for ever.

This shouldn‘t discoumt the fact that the idea to prohibit buying land for speculative purposes came from. The green party in that very same state-So it‘s not like they are 100% neolib.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on June 17, 2019, 10:50:46 PM
I didn‘t expect a FDP reference. :obama


(https://www.welt.de/img/politik/mobile100498662/2722504647-ci102l-w1024/genscher-party-kissinger-DW-Politik-BERLIN-jpg.jpg)

How is Kissinger still alive?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 18, 2019, 12:36:00 AM
Computer, show me the most Slate headline in existence.

https://twitter.com/Slate/status/1140622492387762176
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on June 18, 2019, 02:43:08 AM
Appreciate all the answers and you're touching what I'm getting at : Green have lineage to the Left in general but there's no reason to assume that political options (and its voters) are permanently anchored to the Left and every major party have already or will start addressing it on their own terms -offering to transition via a command economy or liberalism and what not-. It would be a terrible negligence for traditional left parties to not capitalize on having been early compagnons de route especially since in a lot of European countries the "left" camp sorely need those votes.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on June 18, 2019, 03:04:36 AM
Anyone got any good resources on the transition to feudalism from 'slave society'? thanks :gopnik
in short, slavery was very common, even integral, to what we now call Europe up until about the 11th century*; and ‘feudalism’ is too loose a concept to apply over an extensive period of time and/or space and, as a result, is mostly useless.

*cf. McCormick, origins of the European economy

spoiler (click to show/hide)
’feudalism’ is at best an ideal type with about three different meanings and at worst a misreading of contract/fealty obligations that gets imposed onto contexts where it didn’t obtain. There’s been a lot of work over the past ~40ish years towards deflating the prevalence/importance of ‘feudal’ interpretations of social or economic or legal or political ties in medieval Europe. The annales schoolers -some of whom vomkriege and bismarckie mentioned- we’re somewhat paradigmatic in propagating the ‘myth of feudalism’ what with their mentalités allowing them to dump whatever phenomena they wanted into a box and call it a real historical artifact. But the ‘myth’ is a construction over the very long-term, starting in the early modern period by lawyers and historians looking to codify and legitimize the advent of a new period of history over against a backward ‘middle ages’.

The criticism of the specifically Marxist understanding of ‘feudalism’ is that there’s no reason to assume any kind of affinity between, say, northern French manorialism in the 13th century, Spanish encomiendas in the 15th, and English enclosure in the 16th. Additionally, Classical/Political Marxism obv uses a really robust realism wrt historical periodization that really doesn’t jive well with post-cultural turn social science/humanities. The people in the latter camps would be quick to argue for i) an explanatory framework that provincializes these European institutions and ii) a commitment to antirealism/constructivism about historical periodization.
[close]

Yeah that's why I explicitly wrote "...in France" when mentioning those historians. As far as I can remember, the books I read didn't cover the transition from slavery to feudalism, they're more a study of what the latter was in France (or parts of France, I remember one bit being the consolidation of power visible through the reduction of hyper local keeps to regional capitals) from a legal perspective and fleshing out, as you said, the whole fealty/reciprocal obligations (one, I duly note, has been challenged since then).
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 18, 2019, 03:21:49 AM
 :dead
 https://twitter.com/osamabishounen/status/1140768747721859072
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 18, 2019, 11:32:52 PM
(https://i.imgflip.com/33sn6t.jpg)

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Inspired by the U.S. politics thread.
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on June 19, 2019, 10:29:04 AM
https://twitter.com/LydiaBurrell/status/1140831568291868674
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Rufus on June 19, 2019, 11:14:40 AM
https://twitter.com/willmenaker/status/1141011518898790400

:sabu
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on June 19, 2019, 11:23:20 AM
Looks like God is a double agent. :gopnik

https://youtu.be/7_MA1BM7VjQ
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on June 19, 2019, 06:54:33 PM
https://time.com/5320384/fernando-luis-alvarez-purdue-pharma/

Quote
A Connecticut gallery owner was arrested after dropping a 10-foot-long sculpture of a heroin spoon in front of Purdue Pharma’s headquarters on Friday — and he says he plans to “gift” more spoons to other drug companies, as well as to politicians and doctors.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on June 20, 2019, 12:35:26 AM
https://twitter.com/LydiaBurrell/status/1140831568291868674

I work at a fucking school and we don't do the pledge of allegiance anymore.

Also, just get a physical flag, holy shit.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on June 20, 2019, 12:37:33 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/OoNKE1e.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on June 20, 2019, 10:15:41 AM
https://twitter.com/jkass99/status/1141566517122752512
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: toku on June 20, 2019, 06:55:16 PM
https://twitter.com/taslimanasreen/status/1140856456222146560

world really ending soon huh?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on June 20, 2019, 07:11:24 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/yIjoV5r.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 21, 2019, 03:11:26 AM
In the spirit of that meme, I skimmed the Murray Bookchin article Mandark posted in the U.S. politics thread out of morbid curiosity.

I won't go to deep in the paint on Murray, hindsight is hindsight after all. That said, I did smirk a lot during the endeavor knowing that the greatest actualization of his ideology was a U.S. military base from which a civil war is being waged. Bernie's betrayals as mayor somehow pale in comparison with that.

In several instances I had to remind myself that this had been written in the 1980s instead of today. One thing that helped with that were the frequent references to Monthly Review. Unless you're ancient, deep in academic eco-socialism, or a low level member of / adjacent to a ML organization no one is talking about that periodical today with any frequency. It almost felt like it occupied the space Jacobin does today in the #discourse.

Quote
One might reasonably ask what Eugene V. Debs would do in the eighties if he were the mayor of a city like Burlington — or if he simply ran for the office. It was a long socialist tradition basic reason for running for public office was to educate the people in socialist ideas. There is nothing in Sanders’ public record to show that his political horizon is wider than that of a Fiorello LaGuardia.

 :dead

Quote
For the rest, I can hardly complain about the damning facts that make up so much of Higgins’ response. But they are “paradoxes” and “contradictions” only if one assumes that a socialist mayor’s main goal is to run a city rather than to educate its citizenry. Sanders does not profess to be a liberal Democrat. He professes to be a socialist, and his office wall is decorated with a photo of Eugene V. Debs. If one is in any way concerned with the moral integrity of socialism in the United States, indeed, with its very meaning and soul, he should not earn a reputation for efficiency at the cost of low-paying jobs and of “development” that brings huge profits to corporations, and fosters gentrification and real-estate speculation of scandalous proportions. He should not be known for his pacification of the peace, environmental, feminist, and gay movements through bombastic rhetoric and posturing.

War, war never changes...
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on June 21, 2019, 05:44:36 AM
Debs? What would Daniel Hoan and Frank Zeidler do? :hitler
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 21, 2019, 12:53:45 PM
Debs? What would Daniel Hoan and Frank Zeidler do? :hitler

:leon Deep cut.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on June 21, 2019, 02:55:57 PM
no, but you know I can't help myself
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: toku on June 21, 2019, 04:57:44 PM
https://www.infowars.com/the-eerily-accurate-predictions-of-cyberpunk-2020/
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 21, 2019, 06:28:58 PM
Guess the task of listening to the rest of that pod falls to me. *insert quote from Die Maßnahme here*

I'm looking forward to you coming around to the idea that the rounding up and suppression of minorities so settlers can enforce land claims are exactly the fundamentals this nation was set upon.

(https://i.imgur.com/LPUPeUE.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 23, 2019, 06:57:30 PM
troll post 😇

https://twitter.com/getfiscal/status/1142822428931964928
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on June 23, 2019, 08:37:49 PM
troll post 😇

https://twitter.com/getfiscal/status/1142822428931964928

:dead
I was coming here to post that
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 23, 2019, 11:08:33 PM
Shosta-kun, do you wanna join me in consuming something this awful :notlikethis :donot

https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/1141726217139306496

OK, finished this.

idk who this guy is other than that I see his galaxy brain hot takes get retweeted for the purposes of dunking on Twitter from time to time. (I would prefer it if no one replied to this telling me who he actually is... ignorance is bliss.) Since this pod was unreasonably obsessed with college campuses and paranoia about press suppression due to Russian tampering I assume he's a "I'm a '''free speech''' guy" . . . our shittier version of Brendan O'Neill perhaps.

Anyway, a strength and weakness of Bhaskar is that he's sort of an empty cup in interviews and plays to his interviewer. This means that when he goes on Novara he does some real niche socialism talk and when he goes on the New York Times podcast with Ross Douthat (who is worse in audio than any Chapo Reading Series could convey) he talks about how democratic socialism is just social democracy with some workplace democracy. This pod was firmly in the weakness camp because he was playing to an insipid imbecile.

Some high / low lights from the last half:

Loser host: "Hey have you heard the new Tay Tay Swift?" Bhaskar: "No." :lol

Bhaskar saying we need to have both a sword and a shield (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stasi) RE: Nazis. :hitler

Bhaskar: "Kamala Harris is more reliable than Elizabeth Warren on Medicare for All." :gurl

Bhaskar: "If you want to punch Nazis just make sure you run away from the cops." :obama
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on June 23, 2019, 11:37:34 PM
the war between chapo trap house and r/chapotraphouse continues
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 24, 2019, 03:17:03 PM
Angela Nagle was on Red Scare recently. :kermit
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on June 24, 2019, 07:13:38 PM
https://twitter.com/gustavot888/status/1143238472381059072
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on June 24, 2019, 11:01:11 PM
the war between chapo trap house and r/chapotraphouse continues

Amber and the red scare ladies are out here trying to do their best to get cancelled lol

(https://i.imgur.com/HGDurE6_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium)

idk man if I was working with a rapist I probably wouldn't hang out in the walk-in freezer by myself
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on June 24, 2019, 11:45:28 PM
Amber and the red scare ladies are out here trying to do their best to get cancelled lol
stupidpol lives up to the name I guess
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 25, 2019, 01:09:47 AM
fuuuck :dead

https://twitter.com/whysimonewhy/status/1143280089133699072

I thought Dasha's parents were entertainers? They're still in Las Vegas iirc.

Why are you interrogating me about whether or not I listen to Red Scare when there are some men outchea trying to silence women's voices instead of amplifying them. SMGDH. >:(

spoiler (click to show/hide)
idk why Jeet Heer beefs with that podcast (besides its content, obv.) but I never stop finding it amusing.
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 25, 2019, 02:27:37 AM
Going through some old tweets of mine and found some gems.

http://en.hkctu.org.hk/node/140 (problematic source)

Quote
The ACFTU [All-China Federation of Trade Unions] experimented with organizing Walmart workers “underground”. In less than two months, without Walmart’s knowledge, the ACFTU was able to set up close to twenty democratically elected Walmart union branches. But afterthe ACFTU publicized what it had done and demanded that, under Chinese law, Walmart must accept the union branches, Walmart cut a deal with the ACFTU.  A memorandum of understanding (MOU) was signed with Walmart to set up union branches in all of Walmart’s 100-plus stores with Walmart’s active participation.

:whew Imagine having unions that could do that here.



https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1934/07/23.htm

H.G. Wells interviewed Stalin once.

Quote
Stalin : [Communists] would be very pleased to drop violent methods if the ruling class agreed to give way to the working class. But the experience of history speaks against such an assumption.

Wells : There was a case in the history of England, however, of a class voluntarily handing over power to another class. In the period between 1830 and 1870, the aristocracy, whose influence was still very considerable at the end of the eighteenth century, voluntarily, without a severe struggle, surrendered power to the bourgeoisie, which serves as a sentimental support of the monarchy. Subsequently, this transference of power led to the establishment of the rule of the financial oligarchy.

Stalin : But you have imperceptibly passed from questions of revolution to questions of reform. This is not the same thing. Don't you think that the Chartist movement played a great role in the Reforms in England in the nineteenth century?

Wells : The Chartists did little and disappeared without leaving a trace.

Stalin : I do not agree with you. The Chartists, and the strike movement which they organised, played a great role; they compelled the ruling class to make a number of concessions in regard to the franchise, in regard to abolishing the so-called "rotten boroughs," and in regard to some of the points of the "Charter."

Chartism played a not unimportant historical role and compelled a section of the ruling classes to make certain concessions, reforms, in order to avert great shocks.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: toku on June 25, 2019, 01:10:17 PM
https://twitter.com/lukeisamazing/status/1143107228494389254
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 25, 2019, 02:47:21 PM
https://www.soundcloud.com/citationsneeded/episode-80-animal-rights-as-media-and-pop-culture-punchline

There are so many "but that's none of my business" moments in the newest episode of Citations Needed.

 :kermit
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on June 25, 2019, 10:53:17 PM
Looks like the DemSoc who wants to turn Queens into an open-air brothel is going to win
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on June 25, 2019, 11:07:00 PM
Looks like the DemSoc who wants to turn Queens into an open-air brothel is going to win

https://twitter.com/NYWFP/status/1143713686764306433
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Baiano19 on June 26, 2019, 12:03:26 AM
https://twitter.com/gustavot888/status/1143238472381059072

I actually said out loud What the fuck
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on June 26, 2019, 01:13:00 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/2BCVgk5.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on June 26, 2019, 01:43:44 AM
http://ppesydney.net/neoliberalism-and-the-strange-non-death-of-planning/ (http://ppesydney.net/neoliberalism-and-the-strange-non-death-of-planning/)

Interesting blog post about neoliberalism and economic planning (with an appearance by the subject of the new old ideology thread).
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on June 26, 2019, 02:31:07 AM
Looks like the DemSoc who wants to turn Queens into an open-air brothel is going to win

https://twitt.er.com/NYWFP/status/1143713686764306433

Uh oh looks like she was a psyop

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D99Tg2hUYAEWVPk.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on June 26, 2019, 02:50:39 AM
I thought Club de Cordeliers was an alt account for Red Kahina  :doge
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on June 26, 2019, 03:29:17 AM
https://twitter.com/cordeliers/status/1143484410651697154
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on June 26, 2019, 03:48:18 AM
http://ppesydney.net/neoliberalism-and-the-strange-non-death-of-planning/ (http://ppesydney.net/neoliberalism-and-the-strange-non-death-of-planning/)

Interesting blog post about neoliberalism and economic planning (with an appearance by the subject of the new old ideology thread).
Ends with a To Be Continued before it offers concrete examples of modern managerial planning :beli

Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on June 26, 2019, 10:14:31 AM
https://twitter.com/cordeliers/status/1143484410651697154

https://twitter.com/moreindustryplz/status/1143585565545127936

https://twitter.com/cordeliers/status/1143517270553047040

This guy thinks Justice Democrats is a front for Billionaires. That's a twist I didn't see coming.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on June 26, 2019, 01:37:17 PM
I read Bo Xilai's Wikipedia page :expert
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: toku on June 26, 2019, 04:11:05 PM
Dunno whats more my shit, this ep or the alan moore ep where they talked about his current definition of magic and cursed architecture

#occultgang
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 27, 2019, 01:11:40 AM
they actually ended up having Marianne Williamson on Chapo and she seems totally nice and pretty normal actually.. and they're talking to her about idealism vs  materialism :dead

Serious observations:

spoiler (click to show/hide)
In the early 00s there was this obsession in the commentariat (forgive the bourgeois phraseology) with fielding candidates that voters "could see themselves having a beer with" which was of course somehow exemplified by a Yale alumnus from an old New England family that was prominent in business and politics (no relation, surely!) because he couldn't speak English and pretended he was Texan.

In certain respects Marianne Mindset feels like a throwback to that, as if 2008 to today didn't happen. Except instead of a beer she's the kind of candidate the coastal managerial class (again with the bourgeois phraseology -ed.) Democrat could see themselves having a California Cab with as they wistfully reminisce about the good old days when love was free but all you needed was love and Dr. King did the nonviolence which swept away white minority rule forever.

I also got a powerful "this person could stand in a church and talk to voters" vibe but honestly does that really matter anymore? Donald Trump is president and the people who are very passionate about their imaginary friend think he's some kind of biblical fulfillment instead of Mammon literally walking the Earth. Probably, at least insofar in mobilizing Democratic voters.

The starkest part of the interview was when she said that there was only 1 logical thing to take away from the Kennedy assassinations, the assassination of Martin Luther King, and the Kent State massacre: shut up and move along. I know it's en vogue to dunk on Boomers, and JFKKK is at best a problematic fav, but, like, my parents would tell me stories about burning down a bank on-campus at [university name redacted] and all I did in university was read like a fucking nerd, post on NeoGAF, and care about NCAA sports.
[close]

Unserious but still true observations:

spoiler (click to show/hide)
The Chapo boys going in hard on me with the Girls at Our Best! clip at the end. Fair play. :obama

Marianne Mindset going in hard on me with: saying we need revolution (agree!), that it needs to be peaceful (*raising voice so as to be clearly overheard by domestic surveillance* of course I agree!), quoting Muḥammad 'Aṭā, discussing stamocap in pretty explicit terms instead of hand-wringing about crony capitalism while taking as much money from finance as humanly possible, and, uh talking about Marx while conspicuously avoiding the socialist label. (I died when she thought they were talking about her when they were actually talking about Bernie and she suddenly snapped out of chill mindset like the Shaq "I sleep / I wake" meme.)
[close]

Final verdict:

spoiler (click to show/hide)
I can't in good conscience support someone who says things such as, "The American Revolution was a revolution against aristocracy," or, "The police and fire departments are socialism," but I wish her all the best in the primary. In an ideal world she would be a prominent politician from a vaguely center-left party that we'd all sneer at for being too idealistic and feckless in the Congress of Soviets of Soviet America. But, alas, this is le meilleur des mondes possibles.
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 27, 2019, 05:22:06 AM
Big mood...

https://twitter.com/half_orc_/status/1143965873411108865
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: toku on June 27, 2019, 11:46:41 AM
big bless up energy
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on June 27, 2019, 05:28:08 PM
Not to veer away from (my) sociopolitical angst but this had me :dead

I didn't know.John Stossel was on this wave now.

https://twitter.com/adamjohnsonNYC/status/1138165329195163649
I want to circle around to this. I was skimming The Smear by Sharyl Attkisson (most famous for CBS telling her to shut up about Fast and Furious and her saying "it's about family!" on conservative free and independently funded media) and it's mostly dumb gibberish except for two things.

1. She really fucking hates David Brock. Like personally. Like, if I was him, and I saw her in a parking garage, I'd totally hide. Bitch is gonna kill him.

2. The chapter on transactional reporting is one of those true skepticism/contrarian moments for someone who has seemingly never really questioned their own world. This brings me back to Stossel because before he turned into shitty YouTube takes, before he was doing his shitty Libertarian 101 garbage, but just before he went full in on skepticism/contrarianism in politics only, he had a period where he was ANGRY at mostly himself and his career. One of his books is actually about this. When he came to realize how companies, campaigns, etc. essentially hand delivered him or directed him to stories that he won awards and praise for and so on, that pissed him off and he went hard into debunking scams, investigating credit card companies, getting beat up by wrestlers, etc. before expanding that into politics and then just going the same route as Penn with it only boring and less tall.

This chapter is kinda like that, apparently her moment of realization is I guess there was a frenzy of stories in Politico, The Hill, The NYT, etc. about some infighting between two pro-Hillary PACs back in 2015 I don't remember at all (yes, it involved David Brock) and literally everyone she knew at these places couldn't stop talking about it and what a great get each story in it was, one bragged that it had obtained a copy of THE ACTUAL RESIGNATION LETTER, and there were something like 56 stories published on this. Then the two PACs made up and focused on the rising threat of Bernie. And it was like it never happened, none of those stories mattered, it wasn't news, she couldn't find anyone outside the orbit who had even heard of it. Also she was working on a story about government contracting with a colleague and a Senator's office suddenly hands her colleague a pre-written story where the SENATOR helped lead to uncover some stupid random overpayment or something. And their editor made them lede with that and just shove anything else they had at the end of the story. :lol

There's an amusing second-hand story about Politico and Gawker apparently fighting over the right to get an exclusive Chelsea Clinton interview, with them progressively agreeing to greater and greater restrictions on what can be asked and then published to top the other.

Maybe best or worst is she tells about how she gave a speech and Q&A to a group of students/interns both in Congress/the government and in media who were in DC for their first time. And one student straight up asks her "let's say we had some dirt on somebody bad, how would we best get that to you to publish?" And she says something like "I don't really do that kind of reporting, it's more investigative" And another goes, "oh, so let's say it's a big story that needs to be covered or whatever" :doge

Anyway, I preferred that Stossel. That wrestling thing wasn't the only time he was roughed up, I can't seem to find an ABC clip or YouTube video, but there was some shady loan company he was exposing and the guy running it pushes some button in the conference room Stossel is "interviewing" him in and these three giant guys come in and help "escort" Stossel into the parking lot for his own safety. :american
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on June 28, 2019, 05:53:43 AM
wow, the book literally came true again:
(https://i.imgur.com/q8JlyrW.png)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on June 28, 2019, 09:14:36 AM
read settlers
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 28, 2019, 11:33:11 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M._K._Stalin

No wonder all the Communist votes collapsed in the election this year. :ussrcry
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on June 28, 2019, 05:15:08 PM
so because you guys said you were doing it, I sorta re-read/re-skimmed Settlers yesterday and I remembered how much I hate how it's written more than anything, it's meandering, seems like three seperate people wrote each paragraph and worst of all, it's broadly setup in chronological order but internally and specifically it can't even recount a single event without jumping all over, and also it has but yet at the same time loses that "tone" that hard-Left stuff like BA has where it's like someone faking what they think academic writing sounds like but it's really just putting all kinds of shit in the passive voice while passive-aggressively tut-tutting you the reader for your complicity in the crimes of historical forces, also the part about multiple authors really comes across when it swerves from detailed pre-colonial history, seemingly picks up stakes and books for the post-Reconstruction at massive speeds and then proceeds to spend sixty chapters recounting the internal politics of the two dominant labor forces and its interaction with the FDR era Democratic Party over a fifteen year period :doge

perhaps weirdly, and since I haven't commented on it before as a work, although probably not weirdly since you guys know me, the content isn't really anything I have any kind of qualms with and most of it I was familiar with in slightly different forms, lots of classic Amerikkkan anarchist/even "right-libertarian" critique covers the same stuff but instead of the whole "settlers" angle just says "government and its allies" which means cacs anyway... so basically yes, all my critique is basically stylistic complaining more than anything of substance which is stupid, but it's all I got ya know

also for it being the whole hook of the work, the whole settlers/Euro-Amerikan/Afrikan thing is totally inconsistent and poorly setup for being repeated with every chapter and I hope I'm not the only one who kinda was frustrated by this lol

I give it 3.8 million square miles of pristine untouched land free for American patriots to settle out of five for J... J probably stands for something, but I dunno what, Sakai
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 28, 2019, 05:52:46 PM
*Hulk Hogan theme music starts*

I am a Euro-Amerikan
Fight to enslave my fellow man
I am a Euro-Amerikan
Fight for what's white
Fight for your fief!
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on June 28, 2019, 05:55:32 PM
also I had totally forgotten the stuff about Japan late in the book that's such an element of when it was originally written :japancry
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on June 28, 2019, 06:10:09 PM
So Ive only skimmed parts of the book and some reviews but...

It seems like at least half of the appeal is based on its being an indulgent hate-read (like, hating the content the books talking about, not the book itself). You know when sometimes someone sets out to give a completely plausible account or interpretation of something and then mucks up or even fudges the details, or applies some kind of explanatory lens that’s dumb and wrong? But you can’t just throw it in the bushes because it’s telling a really important story that never gets told, at least not accessibly or concisely. That’s p much where I am with settlers.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on June 28, 2019, 06:17:34 PM
well, let's not get too uh... professional in our stone casting... about the quality of what readings people put on syllabi

 :doge
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on June 28, 2019, 06:20:39 PM
well, let's not get too uh... professional in our stone casting... about the quality of what readings people put on syllabi

 :doge

I have heard from far less reputable people than me, since I would certainly never do such a thing, that some syllabi are chosen by how much time and effort it would take by the lecturer to familiarize himself with the literature.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on June 28, 2019, 06:24:02 PM
When Kara first told me to read settlers I didn't know it was a meme because I'm not always-online and I actually read it, thinking it was a serious suggestion. When I PM'd him as much a week later to tell him I was radicalized I'm sure he was both surprised and embarrassed for me
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on June 28, 2019, 06:27:40 PM
Some assholes in academia also only put the untranslated Latin edition of a book in the syllabus because they know nobody is going to read it anyway, :teehee
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on June 28, 2019, 06:29:23 PM
the problem with a lot of more, let's say radical, works has more to do with what the courses are intended to be in general, like I can't think of anything under our 600 level in poli sci that you'd want to stick Settlers in as even optional, history would be easier, but still you run into the narrow specific focus of it

though some of that is a bias towards teaching the known works I suppose

I generally try to avoid piling on the books for more varied articles, chapters, etc. and I think I would want to find another work with the same sentiments and ideas if not specifically these rather than plucking out a part of Settlers, I admit I have not looked at any J Sakai articles though, it's highly likely they have already written one
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on June 28, 2019, 06:35:14 PM
I have to put together the syllabus months in advance, so not knowing how much prior knowledge the students have or how the engagement level is, leads itself to just choosing the standard fare. Unless it‘s a passion project of mine, I just stick to the canon.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on June 28, 2019, 06:42:08 PM
I offered shosh a position in our PhD program and he never got back to me.

Probably for the better: After further self radicalization he only would have tried another reboot of the RAF and would have gotten me in trouble. :goldberg
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on June 28, 2019, 06:45:29 PM
[...]
I generally try to avoid piling on the books for more varied articles, chapters, etc. and I think I would want to find another work with the same sentiments and ideas if not specifically these rather than plucking out a part of Settlers, I admit I have not looked at any J Sakai articles though, it's highly likely they have already written one
Lol at you taking seriously literature written by a member of the Freedom Road Socialist Organization (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_Road_Socialist_Organization), especially one writing under a pseudonym. The tone is the point, and contrary to what jake is hypothesizing, a significant portion of the enjoyment. Since you skimmed it you didn't even touch on the innumerable errata, like misattributing a quote to Lincoln (it was someone else in his campaign, in his proxy), or getting some numbers wrong. I fact-checked this book religiously while I was reading it and found the analysis of some sources to be... dishonest at best. But none of that is important, the book is still fun, illuminating to the uneducated, etc. etc.

If I could pinpoint my least favorite part of the book besides the totally undisciplined and inconsistent style it would be being absolutely uncharitable to the anti-Imperialist League, of all organizations... white men truly are the devil
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on June 28, 2019, 06:54:19 PM
I offered shosh a position in our PhD program and he never got back to me.
your country might have deported my PMs
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on June 28, 2019, 07:04:01 PM
Lol at you taking seriously literature written by a member of the Freedom Road Socialist Organization (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_Road_Socialist_Organization), especially one writing under a pseudonym.
i'm not seeing the difference here from much of the canon
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on June 28, 2019, 07:05:54 PM
I also forgot to mention the whole part about refusing to refer to the Kingdom of Hawai'i as a state, a position I have advocated on this here internet many times.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 28, 2019, 07:06:27 PM
When Kara first told me to read settlers I didn't know it was a meme because I'm not always-online and I actually read it, thinking it was a serious suggestion. When I PM'd him as much a week later to tell him I was radicalized I'm sure he was both surprised and embarrassed for me

I felt bad in the sense that I had taken something from you without considering my actions fully beforehand, that's all. I play it chill and skeptical because those are good things, but I was also enculturated by a pretty hard line organization too.

Need to finish that Mandel piece you sent still, sorry!
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on June 28, 2019, 07:08:54 PM
Which one, the scathing ideological critique of Yugoslavian market socialism (:whew), or "In Defense of Socialist Planning"? Neither of those are a waste of your time imo
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 28, 2019, 07:10:24 PM
A thing I really like about Settlers is that it's actually what Gramsci was talking about when he said there needed to be proletarian scholarship (unless the J. in J. Sakai stands for J.P. Morgan) but it makes the kind of overeducated, squatter Euro-Amerikans who claim to be Gramscians recoil in horror.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 28, 2019, 07:13:25 PM
Which one, the scathing ideological critique of Yugoslavian market socialism (:whew), or "In Defense of Socialist Planning"? Neither of those are a waste of your time imo

The Yugoslav one. I did read the other one and generally agree with your assessment.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on June 28, 2019, 07:28:56 PM
Kara/curly/shosta, y'all read any of the Chinese New Left 新左派 ? I have some Minqi Li wishlisted for reading later :thinking

I'm kind of done reading analysis of China by baizuo :idont
https://youtu.be/x-3UltHAfRU

Forgot to reply to your original post but chuangcn.org (http://chuangcn.org) has some interesting stuff. I liked their history of the "socialist developmental regime" and this inteview (http://chuangcn.org/journal/two/an-adequate-state/). Also I found this image on their website

(http://chuangcn.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/13754334_781739421968850_1910314169687769223_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on June 28, 2019, 07:43:39 PM
Quote
Capitulation
By the mid-1980s, it was clear in both Washington and Moscow that the Soviet Union was in trouble. It was not that the system of public ownership and planning was not working. On the contrary, recognizing the advantages of the Soviet system, the United States itself had emulated it to stimulate innovation in its own economy.
:heh

Now this... this is something I can hate read.

Anyway what I was referring to was this bad boy (https://www.marxists.org/archive/mandel/1986/09/planning.html)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on June 28, 2019, 07:53:14 PM
https://twitter.com/TheRealOJ32/status/1144407744427859968
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 28, 2019, 08:19:51 PM
That's a good interview, I read it awhile back but never bookmarked it. :'(
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on June 29, 2019, 02:59:35 AM
https://twitter.com/TuffLikeHuff/status/1144747118139256839
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on June 29, 2019, 11:06:46 AM
Is the read Settlers meme the same thing as people telling me to read Howard Zinn's A People's History of the United States (which I did because it was a required book in undergrad.)

https://www.historyisaweapon.com/zinnapeopleshistory.html
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: toku on June 29, 2019, 12:26:06 PM
Marianne just doesn't want us to be wage cucks

:rollsafe

#bigorbenergy2020
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Joe Molotov on June 30, 2019, 12:06:21 AM
We just need to ascend to the level where material goods are no longer needed.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on June 30, 2019, 03:37:35 AM
Is the read Settlers meme the same thing as people telling me to read Howard Zinn's A People's History of the United States (which I did because it was a required book in undergrad.)

https://www.historyisaweapon.com/zinnapeopleshistory.html
Yeah, but it's like if the book wasn't totally lame and awful.

Quote
The Note: This great book should really be read by everyone. It is difficult to describe why it so great because it both teaches and inspires. You really just have to read it. We think it is so good that it demands to be as accessible as possible. Once you've finished it, we're sure you'll agree. In fact, years ago, we would offer people twenty dollars if they read the book and didn't think it was completely worth their time. Of all the people who took us up on it, no one collected.
shit I could have made twenty bucks

Actually, that's a cool site, when I mentioned that I was familiar with a lot of the specific stuff from Settlers it's because of some of the sources on there, maybe a good many. (I didn't read the titles of everything listed in each section.) Though as I have probably mentioned many times I am a big fan of revisionist history in general and have always sought it out and I sometimes forget that quirk.

Speaking of A People's History (the graphic novel edition is hilariously sycophantic of Zinn) and revisionist histories, there is a "response" from conservatives called A Patriot's History that I read thanks to a conservative roommate who bought it, was pretty enjoyable, the Vietnam section was especially enlightening. To be slightly seriously complementary of them, they both did a sequel a few years later to bring history "up to date" which a lot of popular histories forget to do and they also rewrote the two halves to spread across the books better and contain more details. Often you tend to see popular focused works go the other way. (Like the People's History getting smaller and smaller versions to get into as many school grades/etc. as possible, plus that graphic novel I mentioned.) Actually, I should probably check it out and see what the true patriotic history of the Iraq War was.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on June 30, 2019, 03:38:27 AM
http://2020.historyisaweapon.com/
Quote
Who is running in the 2020 Democratic Primary and what is the corporate media keeping from you?
Trump is a human garbage fire, but many of the democratic primary candidates are also pretty trashy. Instead of burying the dirt behind image consultants, public relation flacks, and the corporate media, we here at History Is A Weapon are hoping to offer a one stop shop, so you don't have to wade through the nonsense, and you can find the absolute best reporting and takedowns on the various candidates. That way, when your low information cousin discovers he really like "Mayor Pete," you can check in and find the best ahem material to read up on and score some valueless internet points on your facebook wall.

Quote
Name: Marianne Williamson
Who? California congressman, huh?

Website:marianne2020.com

Short Answer: New Age progressive who you will never hear about again after reading this sentence.
wow, so wrong already

Quote
Name: Senator Amy Klobuchar
Who? Minnesota senator, strong right arm

Website: klobuchar.senate.gov

Short Answer: Milquetoast jerk of a boss. Great if you want someone who republicans love.
:teehee
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on June 30, 2019, 04:57:50 AM
Is the read Settlers meme the same thing as people telling me to read Howard Zinn's A People's History of the United States (which I did because it was a required book in undergrad.)

https://www.historyisaweapon.com/zinnapeopleshistory.html

To answer this question in full requires recounting the history of Something Awful's Laissez's Faire which I'm not able to do.

In short though, it's not a meme, but the larger circle in which internet Maoism resides interprets it as one. That gives you certain latitude to inject it into the #discourse because you have the plausible deniability that you were "just doing some memes."
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: toku on June 30, 2019, 12:10:49 PM
https://www.polygraph.info/a/fact-check-russia-metal-gear/30022159.html
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on July 01, 2019, 05:19:48 PM
I'm watching the National Summit on Gentrification (in Newark, NJ) and one of the speakers had a Mao suit and a Pan Africa pin

This whole conference is the most radical shit I've seen on C-SPAN since... ever
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 01, 2019, 08:26:44 PM
benji help

https://www.haymarketbooks.org/books/1319-marx-at-the-arcade
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on July 01, 2019, 08:46:40 PM
What do they even want now in HK? They withdrew the bill and apologized.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on July 01, 2019, 09:34:25 PM
What do they even want now in HK? They withdrew the bill and apologized.

They want the mayor to resign since they don't trust her.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on July 01, 2019, 09:42:42 PM
benji help

https://www.haymarketbooks.org/books/1319-marx-at-the-arcade
Quote
"Marx at the Arcade is an important, brilliant and timely read that reveals the oft-ignored lives of overworked and exploited game workers, as well as the rise of the global Game Workers Unite movement that is fighting for change. Placing games within the context of a wider cultural and political struggle, Woodcock makes a compelling case for combating the toxic and reactionary elements of games culture, and pushing games towards a more positive, radical role in the world." —Karn Bianco, Games Workers Unite

"Combining the unalloyed enthusiasm of the gamer with the critical gaze of the historical materialist, Jamie Woodcock's book cracks open the console to reveal the struggles over value, labour and the meaning of play that haunt the world of videogames. Even readers who last played a videogame in an arcade will gain much from this lucid and combative exploration of the industry that organizes the "free time" of countless millions."—Alberto Toscano, Reader in Critical Theory, Goldsmiths, University of London, author of Fanaticism: On the Uses of an Idea

“In this highly readable, up-to-the-minute counter-guide to videogame work and play, Jamie Woodcock skillfully breaks play out of the “magic circle,” not only revealing capitalism’s shaping influence on digital game culture but also restoring a political perspective on games as a site of struggle. Whether revisiting game history, analyzing individual games, unpacking the distinctiveness of the game commodity, or reporting on the increasingly contested working conditions of game developers, Woodcock richly illustrates the use value of Marxian concepts to the critical study of game media.” —Greig de Peuter, co-author of Games of Empire: Global Capitalism and Video Games
spoiler (click to show/hide)
Quote
“Jamie Woodcock shows us what call-centers can tell us about bleakness and resistance in the modern workplace.” —VICE
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on July 01, 2019, 09:56:03 PM
fuck I saw the url and thought it was gonna be the Paris arcades :dead :dead :dead
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 01, 2019, 10:03:11 PM
fuck I saw the url and thought it was gonna be the Paris arcades :dead :dead :dead

 :nerds
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 01, 2019, 10:47:22 PM
I'm only slightly misrepresenting them when I say this, but it's DSA's position that their blog is akin to a public laptop left open and logged in at the Brooklyn coffee shop.

Accordingly their foreign policy postings there are wildly incoherent and contradictory, representative of certain cliques more than anything. I got powerful Jason Schulman energy from that one, for example. (From my recollection he was prone to "signing his tweets" as the kids would say though.)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on July 01, 2019, 11:10:32 PM
Fact check:
If you belong to an organization run with democratic centralism you will be expelled from DSA by the letter of its laws.

Therefore the undiscipline is a goal. Mission accomplished :wow
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 02, 2019, 12:15:38 AM
If you actually read their laws that's one of the only ones that has nothing to do with administration too. :lol
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on July 02, 2019, 12:47:53 AM
https://twitter.com/aubrey031018/status/1145884199569768451
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on July 02, 2019, 08:30:25 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/AdEdNXb.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on July 02, 2019, 08:44:39 AM
Democrat town is lame.

See you at the Strip‘n‘Poke Her Club guys.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on July 02, 2019, 09:14:22 AM
Apparently both Dems and Reps love them some Junk in the Box, though.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on July 02, 2019, 09:47:15 AM
https://twitter.com/mywifecameback/status/1146019719193014272
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Brehvolution on July 02, 2019, 10:06:58 AM
https://twitter.com/mywifecameback/status/1146019719193014272

It's just a take out box.
https://www.facebook.com/dave.barnhart/posts/10156549406811031
Quote
"The unborn" are a convenient group of people to advocate for. They never make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically poor; they don't resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct; unlike widows, they don't ask you to question patriarchy; unlike orphans, they don't need money, education, or childcare; unlike aliens, they don't bring all that racial, cultural, and religious baggage that you dislike; they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them, because they cease to be unborn. It's almost as if, by being born, they have died to you. You can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or making reparations to anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus but actually dislike people who breathe.

Prisoners? Immigrants? The sick? The poor? Widows? Orphans? All the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all get thrown under the bus for the unborn.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 02, 2019, 01:08:17 PM
Isn't the proletarian / bourgeois divide a binary?

:isthis
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on July 02, 2019, 01:09:10 PM


https://twitter.com/anachmn/status/1145977349017657345

Quote
Not since Dilbert has truth been spoken to power in soulless work settings.

i'm out
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on July 02, 2019, 04:20:58 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NfxZvK32zY

my contribution to this thread is randomly spamming Parenti shit
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on July 02, 2019, 05:59:09 PM
What do they even want now in HK? They withdrew the bill and apologized.

I think it's pretty clear what they don't want. Let's not be willfully naive about the PRC letting things be as they stand. And as far I know the bill status is officially "suspended", not "withdrawn" yet.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on July 02, 2019, 11:10:34 PM
https://twitter.com/MattBors/status/1146179792061923328
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 03, 2019, 12:30:48 AM
These crossover events are getting out of control.

https://twitter.com/sunraysunray/status/1146260189294862338
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 03, 2019, 03:51:12 AM
https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/first-person/2019/7/1/18744204/guns-gun-control-anarchism

The Teen Vogue socialism / labor writer is in Vox now. Bhaskar, you're on notice. :bolo

Don't really feel like dunking on the obvious anarchist stuff here (Rojava reperesent), but I do want to say that it's shockingly irresponsible to make the argument that she's making and offer at best a perfunctory digression into what tends to happen when you're vaguely threatening to the right wing and exercise your right to bear arms.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on July 03, 2019, 11:54:42 AM
The Revolutions podcast is finally going on the Russian Revolution. We're still in the preliminaries.

https://www.revolutionspodcast.com/
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on July 04, 2019, 12:09:42 AM
Quote
Kim Kelly is a freelance writer and labor organizer whose writing on labor, politics, and culture has appeared in the New York Times, the Washington Post, the Guardian, the New Republic, Teen Vogue, the Pacific Standard, and many other publications.
move that up behind WaPo at least
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on July 04, 2019, 01:40:24 AM
Looks like the DemSoc who wants to turn Queens into an open-air brothel is going to win

https://twitt.er.com/NYWFP/status/1143713686764306433

Uh oh looks like she was a psyop

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D99Tg2hUYAEWVPk.jpg)
we did it fam, ruling class destroyed :rejoice
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/03/nyregion/katz-caban-recount-queens.html
Quote
The Democratic primary for district attorney in Queens, a race that drew nationwide attention, was thrown deep into uncertainty on Wednesday after a count of paper ballots flipped the primary-night result.

Tiffany Cabán, a 31-year-old public defender, saw her almost 1,100-vote lead evaporate, with Melinda Katz, the Queens borough president, edging out to a 20-vote lead.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 05, 2019, 11:46:29 AM
lol, of course Brendan O'Neill's employer would post something like that.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: toku on July 05, 2019, 11:49:34 AM
I mainly wish Amber was a little more hopeful? It might just be her tone but I think she's ready to watch the world burn.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 05, 2019, 12:17:49 PM
I mainly wish Amber was a little more hopeful? It might just be her tone but I think she's ready to watch the world burn.

She was a long-time member of DSA (as in before 2016), you'd think that'd help given the radical rise since then. Also she's a host on a wildly successful podcast.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on July 05, 2019, 02:27:39 PM
fave dumb amber take? mine was that China's internet policy is good
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 05, 2019, 04:38:59 PM
But mom, I don't want to read a Spiked article. :stahp

spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm actually kind of mad I even clicked through on the link to see what the article was about and gave them a page impression. :beli
[close]

My favorite Amber moment was when they had the authors of People's Republic of Wal-Mart on a premium episode and she said she's a socialism in one country kind of person even though one of their points was that supply chains and "successful" (my quotes, not theirs) central planning require global supply chains.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
I don't subscribe, that shit is on YouTube.
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 05, 2019, 04:44:06 PM
*adjusting some tchotchke on a TIE Advanced flight stick* the dad energy is strong with this one
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on July 05, 2019, 05:12:54 PM
"Centrists use woke identity politics to undercut real material leftism" only makes sense if the 2016 Democratic presidential primary (as experienced through Twitter) is literally your only reference point in American politics.

The DLC was pushing Dem politicians to stand up to black leaders "special interest groups" at the same time it was supporting means testing, work requirements, etc. Look at Jesse Jackson's platform in 1988. Hell, the early favorite among centrist Dems this cycle is Joe fucking Biden, who also was the first to have a major attack along racial justice lines.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
I know this post is limited to electoral/party politics, but it's in the context of someone arguing for the radical socialist change of Bernie Sanders so I think I'm okay here.
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on July 05, 2019, 05:22:49 PM
fave dumb amber take? mine was that China's internet policy is good

'online leftism is bad and you should all log off' - person who sustains herself from extremely online leftism


anyway, i think we should respond to her arguments with examples of why she's wrong rather than call her a nazbol. her insistence that anti-idpol left movements are the way to go in the imperial core don't seem to hold water from what i can see. the cpgb-ml dropped 'woke idpol leftism' and they're a joke to everyone now. historically, lots of people have come to leftism through struggles with other social issues; some obvious examples being the black panthers or ho chi minh. if focusing exclusively on the rural white peasant class is the most effective strat possible, why is the DSA poppin' and not Redneck Revolt? Why is she in the DSA longterm then, which is at face value a Bernie Sanders (social democracy) movement?

Yeah the main argument Amber and the 'anti-woke' left seem to make is that in order for the DSA to expand beyond their current base of white millennial gentrifiers they need to adopt the mores of the proles and tack right on social issues in order to appeal to the broad center of the working class, but I don't buy that the coalition they imagine is possible, especially in the US of all countries. You can't sidestep racial issues in a settler colonial society, and the people most open to some form of radical break towards egalitarianism are not coincidentally the ones from ethnic minorities.

"Centrists use woke identity politics to undercut real material leftism" only makes sense if the 2016 Democratic presidential primary (as experienced through Twitter) is literally your only reference point in American politics.

The DLC was pushing Dem politicians to stand up to black leaders "special interest groups" at the same time it was supporting means testing, work requirements, etc. Look at Jesse Jackson's platform in 1988. Hell, the early favorite among centrist Dems this cycle is Joe fucking Biden, who also was the first to have a major attack along racial justice lines.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
I know this post is limited to electoral/party politics, but it's in the context of someone arguing for the radical socialist change of Bernie Sanders so I think I'm okay here.
[close]

The left is as traumatized by the 2016 primary as the most fervent Clinton revanchist.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on July 05, 2019, 06:16:26 PM
A heuristic I've found useful is when someone says the left/liberals/Dems should make concessions and meet the people where they are on issue X, that person probably doesn't care about issue X or lowkey agrees with the right wing position on issue X.

Our own Optimus (pbuh) said the left needed to drop the PC bullshit because it turned off voters, then gradually revealed that he had Some Thoughts on Muslim immigration, racial IQ gaps, false rape accusations, etc.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on July 05, 2019, 06:29:37 PM
opti  :tocry :stahp
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on July 05, 2019, 06:47:38 PM
Him getting banned at the same time as Assimilate was like when Farrah Fawcett died on the same day as Michael Jackson.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 05, 2019, 07:09:33 PM
If we look at societies that had successful proletarian revolutions they didn't exactly resolve all their racial and national contradictions after the fact...It's so obvious that I have to raise an eyebrow when that comes out of the mouth of someone who has voiced support for USSR/PRC before. The insistence on viewing these issues as purely a result of liberal society is an absurd claim (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:abo:tlg,0086,035:7:1327b).

Base and superstructure are rather fundamental Marxist concepts but for whatever reason they have dropped so far out of the discourse in the Anglophone world that anti-identity politics is an actual thing that exists in socialist spaces and jakefromstatefarm's recent posting about historiography was (to be uncharitable and mean-spirited) essentially waving a big book that says "culture is important too" so the academy (aKKKademy?) is clearly no better either.

Or to just give everyone the simpler version:

https://twitter.com/DanjoKaz00ie/status/1128375171276996609

spoiler (click to show/hide)
"These guys who slap barcodes on everything really seem like they would oppose classifying and categorizing people on the basis of gender or race." -not my joke
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on July 05, 2019, 07:21:08 PM
Him getting banned at the same time as Assimilate was like when Farrah Fawcett died on the same day as Michael Jackson.
on this score, I think the :social crowd is just comprehensively right: the two of them were fueled by the same white (male) resentment, and this is what always held priority for them, tacit or not, no matter how or through what it got refracted
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on July 05, 2019, 08:11:27 PM
(https://i.redd.it/loub19edbk831.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 05, 2019, 08:18:07 PM
To just add to my earlier thoughts: I don't think it's prima facie ridiculous to claim social issues occupy a place in the debate (TM) that's out of sync with material conditions; however, the anti-identity politics crowd tends to not proffer nuanced arguments such as, "The boundaries of what's possible in the economic space have narrowed so acutely over the last 40 years that the only avenue left in which to perform class struggle is the cultural and personal. If we expand those boundaries we can see what happens with any extant excesses." Instead we are asked to jettison all struggles that are not obviously economic on the front end which, speaking as a member of the most oppressed class in society (small business owners), is just a ruse.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on July 05, 2019, 08:32:25 PM
(http://i.redd.it/loub19edbk831.jpg)

Using my detailed knowledge of the Brooklyn podcast community to parse the significance of this tweet and its later deletion.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on July 05, 2019, 10:11:52 PM
and jakefromstatefarm's recent posting about historiography was (to be uncharitable and mean-spirited) essentially waving a big book that says "culture is important too"
this motherfucker always playing me for a mark to get me to show my hand :rage

If your beef is with the akkkademy, all well and good, all I’d say is that the cultural turn was a net positive because it swept aside a lot of garbage materialist accounts and actually contributed to a return to Marx of sorts (‘read Marx, not marxists’ is a thing). No numbers on this, but I’d hazard to guess most explanations in the social sciences are broadly physicalist, though obv not in orthodox Marxist terms. The ones that do let non-physical objects/process into the picture always do so while incorporating it with a physical account of institutions/networks/whatever. And that incorporation happens more or less well; these guys usually aren’t philosophically inclined, they’re data crunchers trying to fit data to narratives.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
if your beef is with me* then what follows is a care post I’ve had in me for a while re: idealism & materialism that most will respond with :no1curr and the rest wont be convinced by.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
first, let me lay out what I do not claim:
  • that mental activity is in some sense -ontologically, causally, explanitorally- prior to physical activity
  • that a sufficient account of any kind or degree of social phenomena can be given exclusively in terms of mental activity
  • that mental or discursive or rational activity is wholly unbound from conditions that immediately precede and circumscribe it

What I do hold is that, nonetheless, these commitments don’t undermine the desirability of an integrated mental/physical approach. One where they both have causal roles to play at the macro + micro level.^^ The most obvious point I can think at which this clashes with Marx is wrt normativity. He’s notoriously ambiguous on this point but, if you’ll allow me to do a little violence, an at least common reading is one which sees him as setting out a descriptive science that unmasks received, common-sense norms like ‘rights’ or ‘justice’ as discursive tools that legitimate disproportionate distributions of wealth/power. The only real true moral north is freedom, and the liberatory goal is to reach a point where politics isn’t possible anymore. Now, I don’t think this is even close to the most plausible reading of the man himself, but something like it definitely animates most baby marxists (along with a bunch of other shit, don’t get me started) -and this is part of why I think the shearing away of Marxist approaches since the 70s^ was mostly a good thing. The ability/language that allows us to acknowledge when unjust** material conditions are being covered over by norms/mores/values/whatever is a good thing, and one for which we’re largely indebted to Marx. The view that norms/mores/values always or even just mostly do that is fucking crazy and incoherent.

For what it’s worth, ‘culture’ is probably my least favorite word and one that I’d actually eliminate entirely on account of its slipperiness.

^^ I’ve always thought of marx’s base-superstructure as analogous to supervenience in the phil of mind, and if that’s the case, then it’ll run into the same problems supervenience does.
^totally willing to admit there was some Kuhnian loss here, too
**again, because of immanent critique, i can’t even use this term to describe what I’m trying to get at
[close]

*i know it isn’t, but far be it from me to miss an opportunity :snob
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on July 05, 2019, 10:18:34 PM
more like explanatORALLY

 :popular
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on July 06, 2019, 01:00:52 AM
I got around to reading the interview and at first I thought it was fine. I am not a fan of Amber but I did like the take-downs of board-room feminism and polyamory.

And then halfway I read "There’s this idea that we live in a white supremacist country when we fundamentally don’t" from Khachiyan. :beli

"Racial discourse was created after hyper-exploitation.’ But ever since, argues Frost, ‘When we tried to not be racist, we ended up using the same framework’, which today also lives on in identitarian form. ‘All “race” is, is that some people don’t sunburn. That’s the entirety of racial difference.’ " :beli



maybe the reason the anti-feminism did not bother me but the dismissal of racism chafed me significantly is because I am a non-white man. I will reflect on this
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on July 06, 2019, 01:53:17 AM
Donald Trump fudged, obfuscated or flat out just changed his position from as little as a year prior and still sat outside the Republican mainstream overall on "identity politics" issues. But on the things that turned out to matter most with the base and eventually his electorate, namely immigration and trade, he was actually more in line with them than the Party Elite.

The answer in electoral politics is never to dismiss an issue and then explain to the person how the REAL answer is what you've been saying all along. It's to agree with the person 100% and then explain to the person how your plan actually does all that. If that means that sometimes you gotta promise trans women that they can have abortions on national TV, so be it.

As Mandark noted, there's some kind of REAL lesson here about spending decades attacking "interest groups" as not counting, only the overall morass, especially when your party is constructed of a coalition of interest groups where the cleavages don't neatly fit like the infamous three-legged stool.

Wikipedia's summary of Jackson's platform in 1984 (it was slightly tweaked for 1988):
Quote
creating a Works Progress Administration-style program to rebuild America's infrastructure and provide jobs to all Americans,
reprioritizing the War on Drugs to focus less on mandatory minimum sentences for drug users (which he views as racially biased) and more on harsher punishments for money-laundering bankers and others who are part of the "supply" end of "supply and demand"
reversing Reaganomics-inspired tax cuts for the richest ten percent of Americans and using the money to finance social welfare programs
cutting the budget of the Department of Defense by as much as fifteen percent over the course of his administration
declaring Apartheid-era South Africa to be a rogue nation
instituting an immediate nuclear freeze and beginning disarmament negotiations with the Soviet Union
giving reparations to descendants of black slaves
supporting family farmers by reviving many of FDR's New Deal-era farm programs
creating a single-payer system of universal health care
ratifying the Equal Rights Amendment
increasing federal funding for lower-level public education and providing free community college to all
applying stricter enforcement of the Voting Rights Act and
supporting the formation of a Palestinian state.
Jackson 1984 campaign brochure: http://www.4president.org/brochures/1984/jessejackson1984brochure.htm
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on July 06, 2019, 02:02:59 AM
Quote
supporting family farmers by reviving many of FDR's New Deal-era farm programs
what is this, did Jackson want to cut production, too?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on July 06, 2019, 02:03:28 AM
speaking of Clinton's and Democratic primaries

in 1996, much like Bernard in 2012 musing that someone should challenge Obama, there was a push to challenge Clinton from the left, initially they tried to get Jesse:
https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Anyone+left%3F+The+search+for+a+Clinton+challenger+in+1996.-a016914424
Quote
If Jackson should opt out, attention would likely turn to Ralph Nader. The consumer advocate remains one of the most identifiable and respected figures in American public affairs, and he has been among the most vocal critics of Clinton, particularly on issues such as NAFTA and GATT.

"Basically Clinton follows the power of the global corporations, who are his masters," Nader said last fall during the GATT debate.

Nader has said he believes Clinton is "certain" to face some sort of progressive challenge--most likely in the November election--and adds that he would probably support such a challenge. But when asked if he would be the candidate, Nader says no

...

"It's like the movie Field of Dreams," says Elsis. "If we want Jerry Brown to be President, we can do it."

Progressives around the country mention other potential candidates as well--including Representative Bernie Sanders, the Vermont socialist who is the only independent member of the House, and Representative Ron Dellums, California Democrat.

There have also been suggestions that a "left personality," such as writer Barbara Ehrenreich, might be a strong candidate--much as Buchanan has parlayed his position as a columnist and television pundit into two Presidential runs. Ehrenreich, a respected author and columnist, and one of the original members of Democratic Socialists of America, could have a ready-made base of support.

Some progressive activists around the country say they are less concerned about who the candidate is than they are about the prospect that any challenge to Clinton might pull the President to the left.
Warren Beatty tried to talk to Jesse's people about helping him to run in 2000 against Gore and Bradley, this was after Bulworth came out
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on July 06, 2019, 05:49:43 AM
The ideological struggle over HK in that thread is too real. :lol :dead
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: toku on July 06, 2019, 04:59:03 PM
https://twitter.com/Alysonesque/status/1147532099101974529

i only watch old anime so
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on July 07, 2019, 10:33:15 AM
https://twitter.com/RappGabriel/status/1147254695058010112
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on July 07, 2019, 04:55:21 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/tQmKWI1.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 07, 2019, 05:47:12 PM
https://twitter.com/RappGabriel/status/1147254695058010112

If you ever want to get depressed (and read something the "fuck yeah, science!" crowd will always keep on the down-low, if they even know about it) you (pejorative) should try Googling Ron Paul Ignaz Semmelweis sometime.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on July 07, 2019, 06:16:31 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/QlHPpSw.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on July 07, 2019, 08:42:35 PM
oh no, the labels... he knows
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 07, 2019, 08:44:16 PM
Sketch source but :dead

https://twitter.com/ConflictsW/status/1147817251262869504
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on July 08, 2019, 08:04:15 PM
Bolsonaro defends child labor in Brazil.

https://riotimesonline.com/brazil-news/rio-politics/in-his-latest-provocation-bolsonaro-defends-child-labor-in-brazil/
Quote
RIO DE JANEIRO, BRAZIL – (AFP) Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro, no stranger to controversy, sparked a new brouhaha this week by repeatedly defending the practice of child labor.

“I’ve been working since I was eight years old… and today I am what I am,” the president said during his weekly live forum on Facebook.
Bolsonaro added the words, "Work ennobles."

“Look, when a child of eight or nine years old works somewhere, many people denounce it as ‘forced labor’ or ‘child labor,'” he added. “But if that child smokes coca paste, nobody says anything.”

“Work brings dignity to men and to women, no matter their age,” he said.


On Saturday, he republished a 2017 AFP video showing Frank Giaccio, the 11-year-old owner of a lawn mowing business and admirer of US President Donald Trump, trimming the White House lawn. Bolsonaro added the words, “Work ennobles.”

According to the Brazilian Institute of Geography and Statistics (IBGE), some 2.5 million children and adolescents aged five to 17 work in Brazil.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on July 09, 2019, 08:26:02 AM
Do people ever talk about Kerala anymore? I feel like it's a well kept secret in socialist circles.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on July 09, 2019, 09:19:36 AM
But India did try to go that path, didn't it? Nehru instituted some central planning, India was officially a socialist state, friendly with Soviets, etc.

I do worry a little bit that Kerala is too reliant on remittances. Still, what they achieve in human development in comparison to the rest of India is nothing short of a miracle.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 09, 2019, 10:45:59 AM
I would also ask how many countries in the periphery or semi-periphery aren't reliant on remittances, but I also wield that criticism like a cudgel to dismiss the "horizontal" economy of SFRY so I'm probably inconsistent in my analysis.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
:nope Being dependent on remittances in a multipolar world.

 :idont Being dependent on remittances in a unipolar neoliberal world.
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 09, 2019, 10:46:19 AM
https://twitter.com/getfiscal/status/1137158666166185990
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 09, 2019, 11:31:05 AM
The Polish expat community in California is relatively young (in the sense that they all immigrated between World War II to 1989 as opposed to Austrian Galicia being Austrian Galicia) and sooo many of them are STEM types who were educated in Polska Ludowa and came here to complain about how awful it was even though it equipped them to rapidly rise to the top of the settler labor aristocracy while their children are for the most part failsons and daughters (myself included). :lol
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on July 09, 2019, 01:57:28 PM
As someone who fled from there with his family and left everything behind, let's just say I disagree strongly with your whitewashing of the Polish totalitarian state...
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 09, 2019, 02:05:14 PM
Mine fled it too, well Kresy Wschodnie to be more precise.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on July 09, 2019, 03:30:08 PM
Mine fled it too, well Kresy Wschodnie to be more precise.

My dad, who is an ethnic pole, refused to step foot on Polish soil for over 20 years.Funnily enough my mom who is ethnically German, which was one of the main reasons they couldn't endure living in Poland anymore, convinced him to go back to see his family again. Now they go there every year. :trumps
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Flannel Boy on July 09, 2019, 04:36:04 PM
These days, I don't think many Poles are pining for the Polish People's Republic:
(http://i64.tinypic.com/4h32gw.png)

Mine fled it too, well Kresy Wschodnie to be more precise.

That is where all four of my grandparents were from. My maternal grandfather lived just outside of Lwow (Lviv). He lost everything (his estate, mill, family artefacts) and a mob of Ukrainians killed his sister. Fun times.

Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on July 09, 2019, 04:43:04 PM
didn't know we had so many CDPR employees on here
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 09, 2019, 05:25:46 PM
My dad, who is an ethnic pole, refused to step foot on Polish soil for over 20 years.Funnily enough my mom who is ethnically German, which was one of the main reasons they couldn't endure living in Poland anymore, convinced him to go back to see his family again. Now they go there every year. :trumps

My great uncle was killed at Katyn so no one wisely went back until 1989 or so. My grandfather got too ill to travel shortly after my sibling was born so aside from some visits from his ex-wife (who'd stayed there) he only went back 2 or 3 times in his life. When he died we imported dirt to bury him in though. :godłocry:

spoiler (click to show/hide)
It's kind of surreal to learn about your family from memorials instead of from your family.
[close]

That is where all four of my grandparents were from. My maternal grandfather lived just outside of Lwow (Lviv). He lost everything (his estate, mill, family artefacts) and a mob of Ukrainians killed his sister. Fun times.

Mine was from the Łodz area but fled east for obvious reasons in 1939. Fun times would be an accurate way to sum up life in the Old World, yeah.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on July 09, 2019, 05:41:56 PM
didn't know we had so many CDPR employees on here

 :polandcry
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on July 09, 2019, 07:34:47 PM
I would also ask how many countries in the periphery or semi-periphery aren't reliant on remittances, but I also wield that criticism like a cudgel to dismiss the "horizontal" economy of SFRY so I'm probably inconsistent in my analysis.
Remittances account for 31% of Kerala's GDP, and only three countries have a higher dependence on remittances (https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/BX.TRF.PWKR.DT.GD.ZS?most_recent_value_desc=true). I am not saying this is a bad strategy - let Kerala specialize in exporting skilled workers if that works for them. I'm only pointing out that such a unique economic condition can genuinely distort any attempt to evaluate any model of governance. For instance, one might reasonably wonder whether they are hampering the formation of local industries despite having a more educated workforce than literally every other state. Not my position, just JAQing off.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on July 10, 2019, 10:21:08 AM
cheers!
https://twitter.com/katrinagulliver/status/1148934064990236672 (https://twitter.com/katrinagulliver/status/1148934064990236672)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on July 10, 2019, 02:12:01 PM
cheers!
https://twitter.com/katrinagulliver/status/1148934064990236672 (https://twitter.com/katrinagulliver/status/1148934064990236672)

He assumed it was about this because written by Tolstoï... Who died in 1910 ?

 :neogaf
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 10, 2019, 02:51:24 PM
Maybe he mixed him up with Alexei Tolstoi. :expert
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on July 10, 2019, 04:03:51 PM
Teamsters just blessed a (Southern, Central) California grocery worker strike against Ralphs and Albertsons, meaning the shelves will be empty and they can't just hire temp workers.

 :whoo
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on July 10, 2019, 04:17:49 PM
https://twitter.com/Trillburne/status/1149018789411008517

This is what causes people to think Tolstoy wrote about the Communist Revolution.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on July 11, 2019, 10:27:11 PM
Fuck Sailor Socialism. Cancelled.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 12, 2019, 01:48:12 AM
toku / jake / anyone else who enjoys hate-parsing deus vult shit: the citations needed guys did a look at our favorite topic

https://soundcloud.com/citationsneeded/episode-82-western-civilization-and-white-supremacy-the-right-wing-co-option-of-antiquity


save western civilization :lawd

Listened to the first 20 minutes... some really rancid audio clips. (Because I'm not a Kulturkampfer I've never actually listened to the Ur-Dragon Wank Dad for more than bite sized chunks.)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on July 12, 2019, 06:40:59 PM
a century old analysis of nation-state imperialism by a guy who's 5' 5" :nope
modern analyses of international finance capitalism, inverted yield curve monetary policy, and neoliberalism :ohyeah

Quote
The movement of capital from the metropolis to the third world, especially to East, South, and Southeast Asia to relocate plants there and take advantage of their lower wages for meeting global demand, has led to a desegmentation of the world economy, subjecting metropolitan wages to the restraining effect exercised by the third world’s labor reserves. Not surprisingly, as Joseph Stiglitz has pointed out, the real-wage rate of an average male U.S. worker in 2011 was no higher—indeed, it was marginally lower—than it had been in 1968.5

At the same time, such relocation of activities, despite causing impressive growth rates of gross domestic product (GDP) in many third world countries, does not lead to the exhaustion of the third world’s labor reserves. This is because of another feature of contemporary globalization: the unleashing of a process of primitive accumulation of capital against petty producers, including peasant agriculturists in the third world, who had earlier been protected, to an extent, from the encroachment of big capital (both domestic and foreign) by the postcolonial dirigiste regimes in these countries. Under neoliberalism, such protection is withdrawn, causing an income squeeze on these producers and often their outright dispossession from their land, which is then used by big capital for its various so-called development projects [ :lawd ]. The increase in employment, even in countries with impressive GDP growth rates in the third world, falls way short of the natural growth of the workforce, let alone absorbing the additional job seekers coming from the ranks of displaced petty producers. The labor reserves therefore never get used up. Indeed, on the contrary, they are augmented further, because real wages continue to remain tied to a subsistence level, even as metropolitan wages too are restrained. The vector of real wages in the world economy as a whole therefore remains restrained.

(https://www.horizont.net/news/media/9/We-ein-gut-Tass-Te-z-schtze-Kermi-de-Frosc-89072-detailnp.jpeg)

Quote
[Global finance's] opposing larger taxes on capitalists is understandable, but why is it so opposed to a larger fiscal deficit? Even within a capitalist economy, there are no sound economic theoretical reasons that should preclude a fiscal deficit under all circumstances. The root of the opposition therefore lies in deeper social considerations: if the capitalist economic system becomes dependent on the state to promote employment directly, then this fact undermines the social legitimacy of capitalism. The need for the state to boost the animal spirits of the capitalists disappears and a perspective on the system that is epistemically exterior to it is provided to the people, making it possible for them to ask: If the state can do the job of providing employment, then why do we need the capitalists at all? It is an instinctive appreciation of this potential danger that underlies the opposition of capital, especially of finance, to any direct effort by the state to generate employment.

This ever-present opposition becomes decisive within a regime of globalization. As long as finance capital remains national—that is, nation-based—and the state is a nation-state, the latter can override this opposition under certain circumstances, such as in the post-Second World War period when capitalism was facing an existential crisis. But when finance capital is globalized, meaning, when it is free to move across country borders while the state remains a nation-state, its opposition to fiscal deficits becomes decisive. If the state does run large fiscal deficits against its wishes, then it would simply leave that country en masse, causing a financial crisis.

The state therefore capitulates to the demands of globalized finance capital and eschews direct fiscal intervention for increasing demand. It resorts to monetary policy instead since that operates through wealth holders’ decisions, and hence does not undermine their social position. But, precisely for this reason, monetary policy is an ineffective instrument, as was evident in the United States in the aftermath of the 2007–09 crisis when even the pushing of interest rates down to zero scarcely revived activity.6

(https://i.imgur.com/ZMmQD5n.png)

Quote
There has been some discussion on how global value chains would be affected by Trump’s protectionism. But the fact that global macroeconomics in the early twenty-first century will look altogether different compared to earlier has not been much discussed.

In light of the preceding discussion, one could say that if, instead of individual nation-states whose writ cannot possibly run against globalized finance capital, there was a global state or a set of major nation-states acting in unison to override the objections of globalized finance and provide a coordinated fiscal stimulus to the world economy, then perhaps there could be recovery. Such a coordinated fiscal stimulus was suggested by a group of German trade unionists, as well as by John Maynard Keynes during the Great Depression in the 1930s. While it was turned down then, in the present context it has not even been discussed.
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/e5fe1e3b040779761983fa43152e2e5c/tenor.gif?itemid=9789067)

Quote
The second implication of this dead end is that the era of export-led growth is by and large over for third world economies. The slowing down of world economic growth, together with protectionism in the United States against successful third world exporters, which could even spread to other metropolitan economies, suggests that the strategy of relying on the world market to generate domestic growth has run out of steam. Third world economies, including the ones that have been very successful at exporting, would now have to rely much more on their home market.

Such a transition will not be easy; it will require promoting domestic peasant agriculture, defending petty production, moving toward cooperative forms of production, and ensuring greater equality in income distribution, all of which need major structural shifts. For smaller economies, it would also require their coming together with other economies to provide a minimum size to the domestic market. In short, the dead end of neoliberalism also means the need for a shift away from the so-called neoliberal development strategy that has held sway until now.

(https://i.imgur.com/K4iA1F8.png)

Quote
The third implication is the imminent engulfing of a whole range of third world economies in serious balance-of-payments difficulties. This is because, while their exports will be sluggish in the new situation, this very fact will also discourage financial inflows into their economies, whose easy availability had enabled them to maintain current account deficits on their balance of payments earlier. In such a situation, within the existing neoliberal paradigm, they would be forced to adopt austerity measures that would impose income deflation on their people, make the conditions of their people significantly worse, lead to a further handing over of their national assets and resources to international capital, and prevent precisely any possible transition to an alternative strategy of home market-based growth.

In other words, we shall now have an intensification of the imperialist stranglehold over third world economies, especially those pushed into unsustainable balance-of-payments deficits in the new situation. By imperialism, here we do not mean the imperialism of this or that major power, but the imperialism of international finance capital, with which even domestic big bourgeoisies are integrated, directed against their own working people.

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/K_TcSz8wZQs/hqdefault.jpg)

Quote
In short, the ideology of neoliberal capitalism was the promise of growth. But with neoliberal capitalism reaching a dead end, this promise disappears and so does this ideological prop. To sustain itself, neoliberal capitalism starts looking for some other ideological prop and finds fascism. [...]

Fascist groups of one kind or another exist in all modern societies. They move center stage and even into power only on certain occasions when they get the backing of big business. And these occasions arise when three conditions are satisfied: when there is an economic crisis so the system cannot simply go on as before; when the usual liberal establishment is manifestly incapable of resolving the crisis; and when the left is not strong enough to provide an alternative to the people in order to move out of the conjuncture.

This last point may appear odd at first, since many see the big bourgeoisie’s recourse to fascism as a counter to the growth of the left’s strength in the context of a capitalist crisis. But when the left poses a serious threat, the response of the big bourgeoisie typically is to attempt to split it by offering concessions. It uses fascism to prop itself up only when the left is weakened. Walter Benjamin’s remark that “behind every fascism there is a failed revolution” points in this direction.

(https://i.imgur.com/iDiSj61.png)

Quote
[...] what we have today is not nation-based finance capitals, but international finance capital into whose corpus the finance capitals drawn from particular countries are integrated. This globalized finance capital does not want the world to be partitioned into economic territories of rival powers; on the contrary, it wants the entire globe to be open to its own unrestricted movement. The muting of rivalry between major powers, therefore, is not because they prefer truce to war, or peaceful partitioning of the world to forcible repartitioning, but because the material conditions themselves have changed so that it is no longer a matter of such choices. The world has gone beyond both Lenin and Kautsky, as well as their debates.

Not only are we not going to have wars between major powers in this era of fascist upsurge (of course, as will be discussed, we shall have other wars), but, by the same token, this fascist upsurge will not burn out through any cataclysmic war. What we are likely to see is a lingering fascism of less murderous intensity, which, when in power, does not necessarily do away with all the forms of bourgeois democracy, does not necessarily physically annihilate the opposition, and may even allow itself to get voted out of power occasionally. But since its successor government, as long as it remains within the confines of the neoliberal strategy, will also be incapable of alleviating the crisis, the fascist elements are likely to return to power as well. And whether the fascist elements are in or out of power, they will remain a potent force working toward the fascification of the society and the polity, even while promoting corporate interests within a regime of globalization of finance, and hence permanently maintaining the “partnership between big business and fascist upstarts.”

(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0891/8314/products/fffffffffffuuuuu_4989e506f3f2b_grande.jpeg?v=1459044139)

Quote
[R]evived political activity will necessarily throw up challenges to neoliberal capitalism in particular countries. Imperialism, by which we mean the entire economic and political arrangement sustaining the hegemony of international finance capital, will deal with these challenges in at least four different ways.

The first is the so-called spontaneous method of capital flight. Any political formation that seeks to take the country out of the neoliberal regime will witness capital flight even before it has been elected to office, bringing the country to a financial crisis and thereby denting its electoral prospects. And if perchance it still gets elected, the outflow will only increase, even before it assumes office. The inevitable difficulties faced by the people may well make the government back down at that stage. The sheer difficulty of transition away from a neoliberal regime could be enough to bring even a government based on the support of workers and peasants to its knees, precisely to save them short-term distress or to avoid losing their support.

Even if capital controls are put in place, where there are current account deficits, financing such deficits would pose a problem, necessitating some trade controls. But this is where the second instrument of imperialism comes into play: the imposition of trade sanctions by the metropolitan states, which then cajole other countries to stop buying from the sanctioned country that is trying to break away from thralldom to globalized finance capital. Even if the latter would have otherwise succeeded in stabilizing its economy despite its attempt to break away, the imposition of sanctions becomes an additional blow.
[...]
And if all these measures fail, there is always the possibility of resorting to economic warfare (such as destroying Venezuela’s electricity supply), and eventually to military warfare. Venezuela today provides a classic example of what imperialist intervention in a third world country is going to look like in the era of decline of neoliberal capitalism, when revolts are going to characterize such countries more and more.

(https://i.imgur.com/jS2j7E1.png)

spoiler (click to show/hide)
https://monthlyreview.org/2019/07/01/neoliberal-capitalism-at-a-dead-end/

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Yes, Kara! MR is still relevant! :punch
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Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on July 12, 2019, 06:49:12 PM
also, today Jacobin posted an interview with Noam Chomsky
https://jacobinmag.com/2019/07/noam-chomsky-interview-climate-change-imperialism

 :wow
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on July 12, 2019, 06:51:05 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/ir6DijW.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on July 12, 2019, 06:56:27 PM
Also the understanding of 'judeo-christian' as a selective white nationalist ethnic bloc rather than an anti-islamic ideological bloc is new to me. I strongly associate white nationalism of any stripe with antisemitism, would be interested in seeing a more academic breakdown of this.
Israel.

And I don't mean that in a snarky way about Israeli policies or anything but the whole Western relationship with Israel during a time when Nazism's relationship with Jews was still a big no no even in extremist circles led to a sort of "Good Jew" exception that eventually made its way backwards to Jesus to help write a new canon of Western Civilization.

The now forgotten Dark Enlightenment wing of the wank dad was trying to figure out how much of this exception to roll back when they kinda got shoved out of the spotlight for the new "alt-right" intellectuals like Jordan Peterson, Sargon of England, etc.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on July 12, 2019, 07:05:23 PM
I can't remember the name of it now, but there was an European literal neo-Nazi group (in I want to say Hungary) where the leadership went on to expel a huge chunk of members because they were being too openly anti-Semetic during their violent demonstrations.

Golden Dawn did something similar during their brief period flirting with becoming a legitimate political party.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 12, 2019, 07:25:00 PM
This is about as bad as when you said Trump was reflexively anti-war.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on July 12, 2019, 07:30:35 PM
thank you kara for being able to wade through the cancer that I posted and still find it in your heart to like the post :dead
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 12, 2019, 07:39:29 PM
thank you kara for being able to wade through the cancer that I posted and still find it in your heart to like the post :dead

 :isthis Is this art?

-me reading that post

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Years of subscribing to that magazine finally paying off. :win
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Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on July 12, 2019, 07:46:36 PM
This is about as bad as when you said Trump was reflexively anti-war.
And yet the globe is currently at peace in perfect harmony.

Curious.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 12, 2019, 08:19:59 PM
You made me click on this thread again for a one word edit that makes your post more obviously reference the webcomic that makes the free speech KKKorner thread mad.

 :rage :rage :rage
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on July 12, 2019, 08:24:32 PM
Those who participate in blatantly Mandarking deserve no safety.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 12, 2019, 08:53:46 PM
Likening Mandark to me is so insulting to him that I'm reporting my first post on The Bore.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: TVC15 on July 12, 2019, 08:57:03 PM
Likening Mandark to me is so insulting to him that I'm reporting my first post on The Bore.

Ah, yes, the only thing lower than a coward is a snitch.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 12, 2019, 09:06:32 PM
At least I'm not a scab. :bolo
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on July 12, 2019, 09:12:56 PM
I knew that it would always be you who would sic the authorities on me. I don't love you any less. This was how our tragic affair was eventually meant to end.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on July 12, 2019, 09:15:01 PM
I'd rat you all out to the mods, but the only posts I report are my own when they don't get enough likes.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: toku on July 13, 2019, 08:07:15 PM
https://twitter.com/queer_queenie/status/1149798007996596226
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on July 13, 2019, 08:10:08 PM
amphetamines  :rejoice
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on July 13, 2019, 10:04:46 PM
So, I was reading John Bellamy Foster's special piece on Late Imperialism (https://monthlyreview.org/2019/07/01/late-imperialism/) because it's been a couple of weeks and that means it's free now on their website (from each according to his ability, amirite??  :-\) and I had A Thought© while I was reading the conclusion that linked the global slowdown and climate catastrophe to the inevitable end of capitalism...

It's interesting to me that there's this recurring theme in Marxism that capitalism is irrefutably, mathematically inclined to collapse on its own, even without democratic pressure. Obviously the first iteration of this is The Tendency of the Rate of Profit to Fall which Marx thought was his magnum opus and proof that global revolution was imminent within a few generations at most, but then it comes back again after the second world war with Mandel repurposing the Soviet "Kondratiev" waves theory to try to cover up why the world experienced post war miracle growth, and finally, today, it's ubiquitous on the left to associate climate change with unfettered capitalism, along with the sometimes stated conclusion that either we will jettison capitalism or the planet will die. Not that I disagree with the last point... but I still think there's this very funny doctrinaire and undying belief that The Death of Capitalism (in theaters this summer) is incoming, on its own accord, because it is designed to fail, to the point where every time concrete predictions do not materialize, it has to be dressed up again as something else which will absolutely happen, they promise. I wonder why some of these writers don't just go with "unequal development will always happen because advantages accumulate" and admit the whole thing can go on forever, which imo is a much more compelling reason to justify structural change etc.

Expounding on that and to continue with the global warming aspect, I kind of want to read some analysis on the obviously imperialistic aspect of the impending climate crisis because it's pretty clear we're not going to die and climate change will mostly affect the global south. The US safeguards its food security with protectionist policy. A warming globe moves the arable land North (droughts will be primarily concentrated in the tropics), water rich areas will still be habitable especially with conglomerates monopolizing advanced silvicultural practices. We're also in an age of rapidly developing biotech, so food and plant resources, while strained, will be completely manageable in North America at least. When people talk about impending conflicts because of droughts and food scarcity that could potentially cost tens of millions of lives, that will almost totally be concentrated in the least developed areas like west africa, pakistan, etc. In essence what this means is that nearly ALL of the costs of developmental leaps and bounds in the economic center built with two centuries of carbon pollution are externalized to a population which received almost none of the benefits. That is an outstanding crime unparalleled in history, especially when those costs will be millions of lives, extinct species, the total reversal of habitability in entire megaregions, etc. And that is what the next 300, 400 years looks like.

that is the opposite of capitalism destroying itself once climate change hits  :doge
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on July 13, 2019, 10:18:20 PM
this reminds me of when Father turned the people of Xerxes into a Philosopher's Stone
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on July 14, 2019, 12:18:46 AM
I forgot my dumb fucking post is the whole reason this thread was created in the first place :dead
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on July 14, 2019, 12:31:36 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/RNxxTAA.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 14, 2019, 12:31:53 AM
I don't plan on ever experiencing paternal pride, but I'm going to go ahead and feel it for my 2 sons rn. :mjcry

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Maybe this would have been a better emoticon to use? :juche
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on July 14, 2019, 01:49:17 AM
ok gang, it's time for the group picture

(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/01/13/15/3C196E0300000578-4117378-image-m-66_1484322624830.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on July 14, 2019, 10:37:34 AM
look like a group of vidya journalists with ilhan
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on July 14, 2019, 12:31:03 PM
you could fit like three of her in that one guy
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 14, 2019, 11:34:11 PM
https://getpocket.com/explore/item/secret-life-of-the-professor-who-lives-with-nazis

:dead of course this story opens in Orange County, California

spoiler (click to show/hide)
mein reich :goty2
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on July 14, 2019, 11:37:11 PM
https://getpocket.com/explore/item/secret-life-of-the-professor-who-lives-with-nazis

:dead of course this story opens in Orange County, California

spoiler (click to show/hide)
mein reich :goty2
[close]


Hah, of course it's Chapman University. AKA, private Christian College with $35K per semester tuition.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on July 15, 2019, 11:27:40 AM
Quote
International Trade Liberalization and Domestic Institutional Reform: Effects of WTO Accession on Chinese Internal Migration Policy

Economic institutions that impede factor mobility become more costly when an economy experiences substantial transitions such as trade liberalization. I study how trade triggers changes
in labor institutions that regulate internal migration in the context of China’s Hukou system.
Using a newly-collected dataset on prefecture-level migration policies, I document an increase
in pro-migrant regulations following WTO entry and estimate the impact of prefecture-level
trade shocks on migration regulations from 2001 to 2007. I find that regions facing more export
market liberalization enacted more migrant-friendly regulations. I also find evidence that these
regulation changes amplified the effects of trade liberalization on internal migration.

i'm bored at work so reading this, feel free to join me http://www.tianyuanecon.com/uploads/1/1/0/7/110705287/submission_yt.pdf
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 15, 2019, 12:54:37 PM
jakefromstatefarm and benji circa 2015 vindicated. :ussrcry

https://twitter.com/communoah/status/1150233321416396800
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 15, 2019, 04:20:16 PM
These are the dumb struggle sessions I live for :lawd

(https://i.imgur.com/LeMmOB3.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on July 15, 2019, 04:24:53 PM
Rewinding to the discussion a few pages ago, is there an article where Amber or whoever lays out the argument for anti-idpol feminism? I've mostly absorbed that whole debate through tweets.

Preemptive: I'm not going to a read a whole-ass book about this so none of you bastards try to make me.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on July 15, 2019, 04:37:20 PM
ahaha I didn't realize it was on Spiked.

I was more wondering if there was an actual essay or two people could point to that would spell out the "serious" version of this argument.


spoiler (click to show/hide)
Is Mandark looking for a hate-read that can confirm an opinion he's already formed? Is he pretending to do due diligence so when he inevitably makes a bunch of bitchy posts about the subject they'll carry more weight, like that time he read that godawful Jordan Peterson essay? These questions are left to the reader.
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on July 15, 2019, 05:05:31 PM
ha, when I wrote "don't recommend me a book" it was after deleting "don't recommend me Kill All Normies"

This is reinforcing my smug opinion that anti-idpol stuff is just online podcast feud bullshit, which I like.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on July 15, 2019, 05:12:32 PM
Rewinding to the discussion a few pages ago, is there an article where Amber or whoever lays out the argument for anti-idpol feminism? I've mostly absorbed that whole debate through tweets.

Preemptive: I'm not going to a read a whole-ass book about this so none of you bastards try to make me.

I was failing to come up with a good answer so I googled "jacobin identity" and it worked
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 15, 2019, 05:24:18 PM
I'll see if Amber's written an article for the places she's written at, Mandark. She's actually a bit of an (for lack of a better term) Old Bolshevik as far as DSA is concerned and she's from Indiana originally so I'm less inclined to sweep her up with (again for lack of a better term) Berniebros.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on July 15, 2019, 05:45:04 PM
She was active during Occupy and has described it as a failure of horizontalism which I think explains a lot of how she arrived at her current politics
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on July 15, 2019, 06:50:00 PM
*forums poster Mandark, Read Settlers :neogaf

I haven't even watched the last season of Justified yet! C'mon!
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 15, 2019, 09:58:38 PM
Mandark:

http://bostonreview.net/forum/logic-misogyny/amber-alee-frost-amber-alee-frost-responds-kate-manne

https://newpol.org/men-explain-things-meand-i-hardly-care-review/

https://www.cjr.org/special_report/why-the-left-cant-stand-the-new-york-times.php

These are from her "Dear Prudence" type column (i.e. bite-sized and not that detailed)

https://thebaffler.com/your-sorry-ass/no-wokeness-no-worries-frost

https://thebaffler.com/your-sorry-ass/the-sad-song-of-privilege-frost

If I had to elevator pitch her problem with identity politics, it's the time she quoted Rosa Luxemburg on an episode of Chapo saying, "To the rich woman her problems are the world; to a poor woman the world is her problem." (Pardon any misquoting.)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on July 16, 2019, 08:27:39 AM
Ughbhhhhmfjdndbd akahnwwh Google Angela Nagle and her work.

Example:


https://web.archive.org/web/20190713202700/https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2018/11/the-left-case-against-open-borders/


Zizek has some similar shit takes and is probably more popular. Some of his fans like Crash Dummy would be able to guide you :hitler


https://youtu.be/5dNbWGaaxWM

stick with me kid, and you too can tie up anyone in lacanian and hegelian metaphysic word games!
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on July 16, 2019, 11:49:10 AM
i resent that, i can appreciate anyone writing about anxiety!
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 16, 2019, 12:19:08 PM
Found some pics from the ConDem era I'd saved.

(https://i.imgur.com/FPqNgXp.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/2O5JfcF.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on July 16, 2019, 01:40:42 PM
I’m eventually gonna have to make that purchase myself. If you don’t care about used, I think you can grab em all individually for about 70-75, and I’ve seen them drop significantly lower than that too.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on July 17, 2019, 12:01:08 AM
I haven't even watched the last season of Justified yet! C'mon!
surviving Sam Elliott's head lean is the real struggle session

spoiler (click to show/hide)
that season hurts in so many ways
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on July 17, 2019, 12:13:10 AM
Completely off the top of my head without looking them up to be sure:

1. Season 2
2. Season 3
3. "Bulletville"
4. Season 4
5. Season 6
6. Rest of Season 1
7. Season 5
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on July 17, 2019, 12:51:14 AM
(https://i.imgflip.com/h5wwy.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: toku on July 17, 2019, 01:12:57 AM
Completely off the top of my head without looking them up to be sure:

1. Season 2
2. Season 3
3. "Bulletville"
4. Season 4
5. Season 6
6. Rest of Season 1
7. Season 5

Super accurate. Pretty much every odd number season is great to mostly great. I don't think I would put 3 that high (is that the one with neal mcodnough villain? it was wild) but it had the hard task of following up the best season. Hard act to follow. Show is great tv all throughout and a really good ending.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
We dug coal together
spoiler (click to show/hide)
:tocry
[close]
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on July 17, 2019, 01:19:08 AM
https://twitter.com/xmarx360/status/1151297291250208774
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on July 17, 2019, 01:45:45 AM
Super accurate. Pretty much every odd number season is great to mostly great. I don't think I would put 3 that high (is that the one with neal mcodnough villain? it was wild) but it had the hard task of following up the best season. Hard act to follow. Show is great tv all throughout and a really good ending.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
We dug coal together
spoiler (click to show/hide)
:tocry
[close]
[close]
Yeah, season three is Quarles plus the first Limehouse, also the episode where Dewey Crowe had his kidney removed. I liked Quarles coming in as a brutal enforcer but not at all ready for Harlan County as it all starts falling apart.

Season six is just packed with too many plots and characters, even introduces another (Boon) late in the game unnecessarily, when it should have been kept more to just Mary Steenburgen and let Boyd do his thing. Or done the heist instead of the Crowe's the season before. Then done Ava and Boyd for the finale.

Season two had that perfect balance, that perfect villain, perfect Boyd getting involved almost unintentionally. But all the seasons were great. Lots of memorable moments even with the smaller characters, season four moves up for me because it's got a lot of clever ones, Raylan and Winonia in the baby room, when Tim realizes it's a sniper trap and they circle the wagons, the whole High School misdirect.

Show theme was too good :lawd
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAffMSpW8KM
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on July 17, 2019, 01:51:26 AM
In the deep, dark hills of eastern Kentucky
That's the place where I trace my bloodline
And it's there I read on a hillside gravestone
"You will never leave Harlan alive"

Well my grandad's dad walked down Katahrin's Mountain
And he asked Tillie Helton to be his bride
He said, "Won't you walk with me out of the mouth of this holler
Or we'll never leave Harlan alive"

Where the sun comes up about ten in the morning
And the sun goes down about three in the day
And you fill your cup with whatever bitter brew your drinking
And you spend your life just thinking how to get away

No one ever knew there was coal in them mountains
Til a man from the northeast arrived
Waving hundred dollar bills, he said "I'll pay you for your minerals"
But he never left Harlan alive

Well Granny, she sold out cheap and they moved out west to Pineville
To a farm where Big Richland River winds
And I'll bet they danced them a jig, and they laughed and sang a new song
"Who said we'd never leave Harlan alive?"

But the times, they got hard and tobacco wasn't selling
And old Granddad knew what he'd do to survive
He went and dug for Harlan coal and sent the money back to Granny
But he never left Harlan alive

 :isthis
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on July 18, 2019, 03:22:43 PM
https://twitter.com/RosieGray/status/1150803528857862145
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 18, 2019, 03:27:22 PM
https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/cdmcvl/richard_d_wolff_here_professor_of_economics_radio/

Great comment section, 10/10 would read all the shitposts again

(https://i.imgur.com/etadcnw.png)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 18, 2019, 03:37:50 PM
Me wondering if I want to spend 85 on the entire Buttigieg Prison Notebooks set ....

I have a clipped version with selections but it's ehhhh

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ConcernedWarmAntbear-size_restricted.gif)

(https://i.imgur.com/aH5GPhL.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/4hUv3YX.jpg)

spoiler (click to show/hide)
I know I have to get back to this... :six:
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on July 18, 2019, 04:15:20 PM
https://twitter.com/QasimRashid/status/1151947540759269376
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Oblivion on July 18, 2019, 06:26:51 PM
it was really nice and considerate of the magazine funded by the koch bros. to give amber and anna a platform to help spread their marxist take on feminism  :clap
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on July 18, 2019, 06:51:51 PM
https://twitter.com/the_bernie_bro/status/1151984649133940737
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on July 18, 2019, 07:02:08 PM
jakefromstatefarm and benji circa 2015 vindicated. :ussrcry

https://twitter.com/communoah/status/1150233321416396800

https://twitter.com/Orbizzz_/status/1150409933684453378
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Oblivion on July 18, 2019, 07:23:25 PM
Him getting banned at the same time as Assimilate was like when Farrah Fawcett died on the same day as Michael Jackson.

i'm aware this transpired, but i was off the bore when this happened. can someone fill me in on the deets?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on July 18, 2019, 07:34:52 PM
Him getting banned at the same time as Assimilate was like when Farrah Fawcett died on the same day as Michael Jackson.

i'm aware this transpired, but i was off the bore when this happened. can someone fill me in on the deets?

Assy McGee and Floptimus were garbage posters so I perm'd them even though bork said not to.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Rufus on July 18, 2019, 07:42:55 PM
Oh? :ryker
That's an interesting detail.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 18, 2019, 07:43:33 PM
:dead Andrew Yang went on Chapo

What world is this. :lucas
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on July 18, 2019, 07:49:05 PM
Did Will say we should just make automation illegal like he did the first time they talked about Yang
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Oblivion on July 18, 2019, 08:00:16 PM
Him getting banned at the same time as Assimilate was like when Farrah Fawcett died on the same day as Michael Jackson.

i'm aware this transpired, but i was off the bore when this happened. can someone fill me in on the deets?

Assy McGee and Floptimus were garbage posters so I perm'd them even though bork said not to.

 :o

the dial of ideas just got set to the 'low' position

:bow authoritarian leftism :bow2
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Oblivion on July 18, 2019, 08:14:29 PM
A heuristic I've found useful is when someone says the left/liberals/Dems should make concessions and meet the people where they are on issue X, that person probably doesn't care about issue X or lowkey agrees with the right wing position on issue X.

Our own Optimus (pbuh) said the left needed to drop the PC bullshit because it turned off voters, then gradually revealed that he had Some Thoughts on Muslim immigration, racial IQ gaps, false rape accusations, etc.
https://twitter.com/Cernovich/status/1147403313047953409

 :pika
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on July 18, 2019, 08:30:06 PM
Him getting banned at the same time as Assimilate was like when Farrah Fawcett died on the same day as Michael Jackson.

i'm aware this transpired, but i was off the bore when this happened. can someone fill me in on the deets?

Assy McGee and Floptimus were garbage posters so I perm'd them even though bork said not to.
:pacspit :fbm :tocry
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 19, 2019, 05:27:17 PM
I listened to the Yang interview on Chapo. I liked it. It reminded me how good he is at eviscerating the modern economy without couching it in socialist anachronisms. Warren is someone else that can do this, Sanders unfortunately does not. I asked in jest if Will Menaker was going to say something stupid again, but this time it was Virgil during the discussion of taxes. Sad! Actually, this whole thing makes me lose respect for him. I thought he was like... the smartest guy on Chapo. Maybe that's still true but it turns out that's not nearly as smart as I thought.

I had flashbacks to being a baby leftist religiously listening to Thom Hartmann ca. 2008 / 2009 during the interview. Yang's general language was left liberal / aspiring champion of chaos social democracy, or even old school progressive. He wrapped it in relevant data from the present day, but it was still ultimately rooted in class-blind notions of justice and praise for small European ethnostates that contrary to what he seems to think, don't actually hold capital to account, and certainly not with a value-added tax.

He's a lot better than I thought he was, and I can see why young Millenial lumpenproletariat love him, but I don't think he's that fresh a mind without comparing him to the absolute shitshow of Democratic nominee hopefuls.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: toku on July 19, 2019, 08:42:32 PM
https://twitter.com/markmackinnon/status/1152241649893945346
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on July 20, 2019, 02:15:24 AM
https://twitter.com/MikePrysner/status/1151941506451873799

 :lol
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on July 20, 2019, 02:18:01 AM
https://twitter.com/markmackinnon/status/1152241649893945346

LONG
WAY
ROUND
THE DANGER ZONE
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on July 20, 2019, 04:51:45 PM
So you mean... YANG GANG ?  :playa
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on July 20, 2019, 05:07:18 PM
https://twitter.com/Convolutedname/status/1152209753650712577

Of all the strange ideological creatures roaming these lands Matt Stoller might be the strangest.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on July 20, 2019, 06:35:25 PM
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f7/Empire_%28book%29.jpg)

the "Late Imperialism" article on Monthly Review gave a very good rundown on the important Marxist and post-Marxist literature since Magdoff's The Age of Imperialism and I do want to take a tour through some of it. this one's first.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on July 21, 2019, 02:22:34 AM
I guess John Smith would know a thing or two about imperialism

can you paint with all the colors of the wind?
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/r56Qb02YF7m9y/giphy.gif)
come roll in all the riches all around you
(https://media.giphy.com/media/Itxv1hCSyjFzq/giphy-downsized-large.gif)
[close]
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on July 21, 2019, 10:56:36 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/TsMbosq.png)

i have many questions
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on July 21, 2019, 10:59:18 AM
Quote
Why should I read “Voluntaryist?”

The comic is worth reading for many reasons, but there is one reason that makes it stand out from any current main-stream production: It actually addresses government abuses. Many comics which have libertarian/anarchist themes only promote so subliminally. This comic series directly incorporates the growing abuses of government into its storyline to highlight the coming dystopian future in America and around the globe. The comic thus serves as an inspiration and warning to address the police state before it’s too late.

How does a hero fighting monsters, villains, and government, address “Voluntaryism?”

The promotion of voluntaryist values is a development of the series which is seen in the language of the main character and in the narratives. It comes across especially where the hero defends innocent people from being victimized for victimless activity.
what
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on July 21, 2019, 10:59:43 AM
(https://voluntaryists.files.wordpress.com/2018/05/voluntaryist-power-dynamics-chart-web.jpg?w=590)
 :whatisthis
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on July 21, 2019, 11:01:02 AM
Quote
TSA: Transportation Safety Administration. The government’s compliance branch for ensuring an obedient populace.
i'm out :donot
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on July 21, 2019, 11:01:28 AM
https://volcomic.com/universe-terminology/

Quote
GENERATIONS (Gs): A measure of power based on the average increase in human energy strength in each generation that lives in a world of Voluntaryist norms. When humans begin to maximize consent and minimize the initiation of violence, the evolution of human dexterity, healing, and abnormal abilities manifests. Within 10 generations (10G power), humans attain an average strength ability of peak human strength and a healing factor 10x the speed of the first generation.   This metric is also used to describe the ability level of super-human characters.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on July 21, 2019, 11:05:20 AM
Quote
Voluntaryist Engagement: Code of Conduct

The Voluntaryists strive to maximize consent and minimize the initiation of violence. Because of this, they will do their best to not kill any enemy if they do not have to. However, they do not see killing in self defense as a moral or ethical harm in itself. A statist, whether human or transformed, who is attempting to use lethal force against the Voluntaryists or murder an innocent, is subject to lethal force. The Voluntaryists do not wish to create a culture of revenge though and, thus, will do their best to avoid engaging with defense or offense against humans that will likely lead to death.

The Voluntaryists do keep in mind though that they do not know the full extent of their own powers or the extent of the enemy’s willingness to push the offensive envelope. Because of this, the Voluntaryists are willing to put forward highly destructive tactics if the enemy’s offense requires it.
:doge
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on July 21, 2019, 11:07:29 AM
I'll buy an issue if it features the voluntaryist squad getting wrecked by Rene Boucher.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on July 21, 2019, 11:13:09 AM
i'm most offended by AnarCat, i don't know if i can ever forgive this
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 21, 2019, 11:28:42 AM
The anprim is a furry who self-identifies as an anPRIMAL. :rofl :rofl :rofl
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 21, 2019, 12:44:51 PM
Is writing a comic about acts of god transforming beings into superheroes an unintentional undermining of the non-aggression principle (what is more coercive than an indifferent act of god?) or is it the apotheosis of lolbertarian / ancap thought wherein all should be subject to the whims of deterministic events we cannot possibly comprehend like genetics, parenting, socioeconomic factors.

(https://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/jbhmmm.png)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on July 21, 2019, 01:02:38 PM
AnarCat

AnarManimal!
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: toku on July 21, 2019, 02:41:56 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWCi8VgUhYA
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 23, 2019, 12:36:12 AM
Oldie but a goodie.

Unrelated: I kind of can't believe that things are so bad that Vox essentially runs piece after piece about how incomprehensibly inept everything is.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/7/19/20699366/interest-rates-unemployment-globalization-minimum-wage-deficit

https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2019/7/19/20698355/health-insurance-scam-united-cigna-aetna-southwest

https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2019/7/22/20703858/live-nation-ticket-resale-scheme-metallica-billboard-report
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on July 23, 2019, 02:21:35 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/RS2wrL3.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on July 23, 2019, 07:17:15 AM
Li Peng died. I wonder if that will trigger anything :doge
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on July 23, 2019, 12:58:29 PM
I wonder if there's like a Chinese version of Gulag Archipelago dedicated to our system sometimes.
That would be pretty hypocritical, like Americans constantly pointing to the Gulag Archipelago during the great American crime wave.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
:ohyou
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 23, 2019, 01:25:28 PM
I just finished a job where I was hired to examine a joint Indian-AmeriKKKan venture (which was both humbling and illuminating for myriad reasons) for a company who could then take that information to a real specialist to save money / know what they were talking about and the Indian government puts out a handy ~80 page booklet that's basically *Troy McClure voice* "So you want to open a business in India?"

Anyway, there's a section in there about tax treaties. In that section they say something to the effect of, "here's a snapshot of tax rates with certain key jurisdictions under treaties that have been signed," and show a table of ranks tax rates.

On that table you've got:

-the U.S. (go off, king)
-Mauritius (wait, what? I guess it is the [culturally, if not geographically] closest pretend country that's a tax haven...)
-Singapore (OK, starting to detect a pattern here)
-the Netherlands (yup, definitely a pattern!)

It's not that I don't know that """""""""development""""""""" of the semi-periphery is just large-scale tax fraud against people who need the tax funds the most, but seeing it so cynically broadcast in a government publication was, well, disabusing.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
They use the word cess in legal and government documents. Yet another crime of the British Empire that will go unpunished.
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on July 23, 2019, 09:09:45 PM
https://twitter.com/Jacob_Brogan/status/1153831905600557062
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on July 24, 2019, 03:41:21 AM
"Empire" is several orders of magnitude more postmodern than was written on the tin and is taking me through Foucault and Deleuze  :shaq2
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on July 24, 2019, 06:33:08 AM
I just finished a job where I was hired to examine a joint Indian-AmeriKKKan venture (which was both humbling and illuminating for myriad reasons) for a company who could then take that information to a real specialist to save money / know what they were talking about and the Indian government puts out a handy ~80 page booklet that's basically *Troy McClure voice* "So you want to open a business in India?"

Anyway, there's a section in there about tax treaties. In that section they say something to the effect of, "here's a snapshot of tax rates with certain key jurisdictions under treaties that have been signed," and show a table of ranks tax rates.

On that table you've got:

-the U.S. (go off, king)
-Mauritius (wait, what? I guess it is the [culturally, if not geographically] closest pretend country that's a tax haven...)
-Singapore (OK, starting to detect a pattern here)
-the Netherlands (yup, definitely a pattern!)

It's not that I don't know that """""""""development""""""""" of the semi-periphery is just large-scale tax fraud against people who need the tax funds the most, but seeing it so cynically broadcast in a government publication was, well, disabusing.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
They use the word cess in legal and government documents. Yet another crime of the British Empire that will go unpunished.
[close]

depending on the business model and states involved within india, there's a good chance that they'll get you on the gst side if you manage to structure yourself to minimise your etr and direct tax/wht bill, and even then it looks like many countries are adopting beps from the oecd
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 24, 2019, 11:41:10 PM
TIL Arthur Koestler was a "Jews are Khazars" guy. Like 200 Years Together I'm sure his The Thirteenth Tribe has fallen out of the discourse by simple oversight. It happens to the best of us!
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on July 25, 2019, 01:49:26 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/SW0D8fP.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 25, 2019, 01:54:46 PM
Quote
His judgment of men was profound. He early saw through the flamboyance and exhibitionism of Trotsky, who fooled the world, and especially America. The whole ill-bred and insulting attitude of Liberals in the U.S. today began with our naive acceptance of Trotsky’s magnificent lying propaganda, which he carried around the world. Against it, Stalin stood like a rock and moved neither right nor left, as he continued to advance toward a real socialism instead of the sham Trotsky offered.

War, war never changes...
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on July 25, 2019, 05:43:24 PM
https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1153988582492782592
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on July 26, 2019, 03:25:41 PM
https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1153989295407009793

so did she get her print copy signed?

spoiler (click to show/hide)
do you think Trump would sign it for her?
spoiler (click to show/hide)
:trumps
[close]
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 26, 2019, 03:29:02 PM
I kind of feel bad laughing at the one with the copy of the book. She seems genuinely excited about this bourgeois electoral bullshit.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on July 26, 2019, 03:44:20 PM
Do you think the dude's banged them all, I say 2/5, maybe a little under the shirt action from a third.

I always heard (from multiple sources) that GOP side of the aisle is if you wanna get lots of "casual" sex that gets you in trouble with your bosses because the drama is spreading throughout the intern pool and tearing the offices apart.

Major state level government is so quaint and quiet in comparison.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 26, 2019, 03:50:52 PM
When my sibling took their meds they were a Republican intern for awhile but I'm not going to ask them about that.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on July 26, 2019, 09:03:45 PM
Quote from: The Infernal Library, http://www.thebore.com/forum/index.php?topic=24400.msg2671649#msg2671649
At the very least, Stalin was a more more talented poet than Lenin, whose sole contribution to the world of verse appears to have been an ode dedicated to the village where he spent his Siberian exile. It starts like this:

In Shushensjoe, in the foothills of Mount Sayan...

And then stops. Eight words in.
Good. A revolutionary has no time for poetry which does not advance the revolution. :salute
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 26, 2019, 09:27:32 PM
Stalin's first revolutionary name was a character in a book. :brain
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 26, 2019, 10:18:10 PM
I have a lot of disposable income, OK. :beli
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: bluemax on July 26, 2019, 11:09:09 PM
Do you think the dude's banged them all, I say 2/5, maybe a little under the shirt action from a third.

I always heard (from multiple sources) that GOP side of the aisle is if you wanna get lots of "casual" sex that gets you in trouble with your bosses because the drama is spreading throughout the intern pool and tearing the offices apart.

Major state level government is so quaint and quiet in comparison.

There was an article last year about how young people who work in the Trump administration can't get laid in DC.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on July 26, 2019, 11:24:00 PM
Well, of course not, it's more like a monastery of National Conservatism thinkers, I'm talking about the regular Republican Party here.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 27, 2019, 01:29:50 AM
Also the understanding of 'judeo-christian' as a selective white nationalist ethnic bloc rather than an anti-islamic ideological bloc is new to me. I strongly associate white nationalism of any stripe with antisemitism, would be interested in seeing a more academic breakdown of this.

The reason why this didn't scan with you is because it's bullshit. (Caught up on my eps today.)

Adam took a line of play (whiteness is a malleable concept) and stretched it out way beyond its capabilities when he made that claim. The first guest essentially invalidated it when she talked about how she was thought of as white until people dug up that she had a Jewish grandparent. He didn't even offer any evidence, he just said it like it was fact and proceeded from there. Seek truth from facts, Adam. :wag

BTW, I read that cursed Churchill speech or whatever about Zionism you posted about awhile back. Of all the people outside Russia that asshole has no excuse whatsoever for praising Denikin for being a friend to the Jews in 1920.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on July 27, 2019, 02:34:20 AM
https://twitter.com/Linkthehero2/status/1144268747018051584
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on July 27, 2019, 02:41:28 AM
Also the understanding of 'judeo-christian' as a selective white nationalist ethnic bloc rather than an anti-islamic ideological bloc is new to me. I strongly associate white nationalism of any stripe with antisemitism, would be interested in seeing a more academic breakdown of this.

The reason why this didn't scan with you is because it's bullshit. (Caught up on my eps today.)

Adam took a line of play (whiteness is a malleable concept) and stretched it out way beyond its capabilities when he made that claim. The first guest essentially invalidated it when she talked about how she was thought of as white until people dug up that she had a Jewish grandparent. He didn't even offer any evidence, he just said it like it was fact and proceeded from there. Seek truth from facts, Adam. :wag

BTW, I read that cursed Churchill speech or whatever about Zionism you posted about awhile back. Of all the people outside Russia that asshole has no excuse whatsoever for praising Denikin for being a friend to the Jews in 1920.

racial classification of jews always goes over my head
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on July 27, 2019, 11:16:57 AM
no no I wasn't saying for Bible reasons, for cultural reasons, Israel has long been promoted as an American ally, so America First rubs off on it, similar to the UK's treatment now (ala Iraq) versus the first hundred some years of the country

they don't necessarily like Jews, and if they saw the actual population of Israel they'd like it even less for being so brown, but they like the concept of "Israel", especially as an American ally against the Muslims/Arabs/etc. it's "Western Civilization"

especially as a formative idea for people during a time when Nazism was especially bad for its actions in the Holocaust; you can attempt to ward it off by creating a "good Jew" exception of something like "but I support Israel"

American neo-Nazism/American First-ism/etc. and nationalism in general has adopted the strong American component of "solving the problem by sending it away" (ala Liberia) that the New World is founded in and in that they sometimes say Jews should go live in Israel and stay out of America/Europe/etc. as the culture was undermined their willingness to support genocide or other ethnic cleansing type actions by suggesting a "clean" deportation can be done; the realism of this policy has no bearing as much as a wall is supposed to solve a "problem" dominated by visa overstays, people are culturally tuned to not immediately turn to shutting down all immigration and deporting everyone in Fortress America if they can be offered a "nicer" solution, that's why the mythology of a CRISIS is essential to undermining that... cultural moderating factor

if pushed, of course the exceptions go away
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on July 27, 2019, 04:32:04 PM
PCA clustering of likeness tends to place Ashkenazis very close to Southern Italians.
Disqualifying them from being white is just emulating Nazism. Otherwise Ashkenazis, and some Levantine groups look "white" to me, as opposed to the Middle Eastern vibe.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on July 27, 2019, 04:49:08 PM
Yes, that's isn't contradictory to what I'm saying. At a point in time East Europe and South Europe weren't white. And in my view above, some people outside of Europe would fall into the category of "white".
Am I parsing this wrong, since it seems to not line up with what I said. I meant that WN are vehement on disqualifying Jews from any definition of whiteness due to them literally being neo-nazis, not that any other party is partaking in nazi emulation.

Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 27, 2019, 06:13:16 PM
They're automating away Mandark's job. :'( We're screwed without universal basic income.

https://twitter.com/bobby/status/1155196344715415552
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 27, 2019, 06:14:40 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/K60i1Jo.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 27, 2019, 06:34:07 PM
I feel so attacked as a Slav and as a terminal Russophile. :doge

(https://i.imgur.com/jEjdUUS.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on July 27, 2019, 08:23:07 PM
I get that there's a nonsensical connect the dots arc of euro-american value hegemony to some greater historically blind judeo-christian values idea stemming from israeli allyship from the american state, i just agree with Kara that the notion of jewishness still doesnt fit neatly to whiteness. We've seen this with slavs and in the past, irish people or italians etc, but i don't see it ever fully making the leap since us white nationalism historically draws on antisemitism from a bunch of different sources;
oh, I didn't want to make that insinuation (and I didn't listen to whatever podcast) just to note that American versions of these groups have historical cultural factors that creates this seemingly paradox that European groups tends to discard

I could have saved a lot of idiocy by perhaps constructing it as a "the enemy (Israel, nominally Western) of my enemy (Muslim hordes) is my temporary acquaintance, and plus they're staying over there and we've gotta focus on the lesser races here at home"
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on July 27, 2019, 08:25:32 PM
nobody is allowed to take any of my attempts at explaining the Jewish Exception and the Proud American Cultural Tendencies Towards Israel out of context or else this will be the posts that finally prevent from holding office, as you know they'll use their secretive massive funding for skin crawling networks to smear and destroy I, who are simply, a simple dispassionate AnarCat
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on July 27, 2019, 08:28:46 PM
Bad news, Kara. Someone is out here stealing Jason Hickel's shtick and submitting it to Current Affairs (https://www.currentaffairs.org/2019/07/5-myths-about-global-poverty) under the fake name "Roge Karma" (more like Rogue Karma).

Quote
Defenders of global capitalism are obsessed with this story. It has been the focus of Bill Gates tweets, Dylan Matthews Vox columns, and even a self-congratulatory movie about American Enterprise Institute President Arthur Brooks. Silicon Valley futurist guru Yuval Noah Harari dreams about it during his meditation retreats, Thomas Friedman thinks he discovered it while waiting for one of his imaginary friends, and Effective Altruists across the world repeat it to themselves under their breath as they walk into their soulless Wall Street offices (to do the Most Good They Possibly Can). Steven Pinker even did humanity the great service of taking 600 pages to make the very same argument (don’t worry, it’s a quick read—a good chunk simply consists of charts showing the arrow of good things going up and the arrow of bad things going down).
:whew

Quote
This obsession makes complete sense. After all, if taken seriously, the “Don’t Worry, Everything is Better now” or DWEIB (pronounced “dweeb”) narrative is perhaps the most compelling defense of global capitalism out there. Sure, the wealthiest individuals might own a grossly disproportionate amount of global wealth, the rules may be rigged in favor of the rich, and hundreds of millions may continue to live without their basic needs met, but the DWEIBs (shorthand for those who promote the DWEIB narrative)  are quick to point out that the system that produced these conditions has done more for the poor than any other. Global capitalism may not be perfect but the benefits it brings—namely, eradicating poverty as we know it—far outweighs its costs.
That unrepenting acronym :lawd

Quote
Increasingly, even self-identified progressives are beginning to accept this narrative. The author who penned the “Land of Plenty” paragraph may be one of the last people you expect: Dutch journalist Rutger Bregman—the same Rutger Bregman who made headlines when he told the elite at Davos that they need to start paying their fair share of taxes, and then flayed Tucker Carlson over his phony populism. 

On the surface, Bregman seems like a typical leftist. He is an avowed social democrat, bashes professions like consulting and banking, and argues for policies like a universal basic income, open borders and a 15-hour workweek. But, like many who have claimed the mantle of the left in recent years, something is off about Bregman. He believes the greatest challenge of our time is not unjust and exploitative system but a lack of imagination. He advocates for big, bold ideas, not simply because they will make the world more just but because they will make politics less boring. He speaks about the importance of “innovation,” “meritocracy,” and “cut[ting] the nanny state” while terms like “class conflict,” “distribution of power” and “structural violence” rarely, if ever,  enter his political vocabulary.

Bregman, in other words, is the exception that proves the rule: When you believe that our existing economic system has brought with it unprecedented prosperity for all, then a view of politics as class conflict and collective struggle falls by the wayside—the only radicalism that remains is a radicalism of imagination.
:kermit

spoiler (click to show/hide)
(https://external-preview.redd.it/kl-uqtl8eeBLP2UvMy-KpUKaxJAfh394tzu2V_3VZWg.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=42562250010a7c54c193fca442acd2fe64f28655)
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on July 27, 2019, 08:43:36 PM
Quote
Worse yet, to reach the $7.40 per day level Woodward shows that GDP would have to be 175 times its current level, at which point the average global income would be $1.3 million/year. In other words, under our current economic system, the average income would have to be over a million dollars per year just so that the poor could live on $7.40 per day.
:larry

reading these arguments again reminded me of something a great forum poster once said
enjoy your future!  :wow
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Oblivion on July 27, 2019, 10:28:45 PM
https://twitter.com/my2k/status/1154957423779561472
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 27, 2019, 10:31:00 PM
Quote
On the surface, Bregman seems like a typical leftist. He is an avowed social democrat

*looks around to make sure Bismarck is still gone* What a cursed string of words.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on July 27, 2019, 10:52:27 PM
Kara's posts whenever social democracy comes up:
(https://i.imgur.com/RFSLlty.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 27, 2019, 10:55:30 PM
You were not kidding about this plagiarizing Jason Hickel, Dmitri Dmitriyevich. :lol

spoiler (click to show/hide)
I remember an interesting Ha-Joon Chang talk where he spoke about the supposed decline of manufacturing in core economies. (A large portion of the companies I work with are domestic manufacturers.) The value of the manufacturing sector has declined in those countries because that's what mass production does, but he claimed the only core economy that actually lost a manufacturing sector was the UK. Big ups to the Tories for loving austerity that much. :brain
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on July 27, 2019, 10:57:54 PM
Link? I still need to read Kicking Away the Ladder.

You were not kidding about this plagiarizing Jason Hickel, Dmitri Dmitriyevich. :lol
I mean he cites the material but those of us that have read the original content can plainly see he just flat out copied the structure of the arguments :doge

if you're going to do that, why link people to the stuff you plagiarized nearly verbatim :doge :doge
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on July 28, 2019, 01:12:41 AM
https://twitter.com/jackryanamazon/status/1155152471041273858

 ::)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on July 28, 2019, 01:38:02 AM
I finally found the Praxis: Suicide Squad (DC Comics, 1987, colorized by Carl Gafford)

(https://i.imgur.com/gsdc8l6.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/p3f1D8s.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/ZI17X5Y.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/aCVxkt4.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/eROux5a.png)

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Pravda is not the newspaper, but a member of The People's Heroes (fourth picture, though she's not shown) who has the power of CASTING ILLUSIONS!

The other members of The People's Heroes are:
Bolshoi - superspeed
Hammer - superstrength, also he has a hammer
Molotov - fat guy, who can...blow him self up? i dont
Sickle - superstrength, also she has a sickle
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on July 28, 2019, 02:13:42 AM
Well, they name dropped Bulgakov.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on July 28, 2019, 03:57:47 AM
I love ha joon chang and steve keen because they have entire careers based on hating on capitalism in practice and then stopping at the last minute like fuck it... Don't wanna go too far
When it comes to Keen, "last minute" is not an exaggeration.
Quote
Peter McCormack: Yes, and I will share that out in the show notes. It’s a long read. I’d probably need a couple of days to really digest it in detail and ask you, but what was quite interesting that came out was something that you quoted that Minsky said. That, “Capitalism is inherently flawed. It has to have flaws to function as a capitalist system.” Therefore, what is the alternative?

Steve Keen: The alternative is recognising you’ve got a flawed system. I think one of the great weaknesses of the human species is we have this belief of a perfect world, and you find it in every … Every culture has its Valhalla. Every society has this ideal world where everything happens perfectly, a bit Garden of Eden, etc., etc. It’s something in our psyche that wants something perfect. What economic theory, Neo-Classical theory promised was a perfect world on this planet. You get sucked into this belief in perfection.

Steve Keen: What Minsky is saying is get used to it. The real world is not a porcelain doll. The real world’s going to have pimples. In the case of the financial sector, what Minsky actually said, if you elaborate that quote, what he said was, “Capitalism is inherently flawed, being prone to booms, slumps, and crises. These flaws are due to characteristics a sophisticated capitalistic economy must have. Such a system will be capable of generating signals that induce an increased desire to invest and of financing that investment.” That’s the real link.

Steve Keen: You want capitalists. The good thing about the capitalist system is innovation and change. You want them to want to be investing. When they do it, the income distribution signal will change to make it worth their while, or looking like worthwhile to invest. They’ll get euphoric about those expectations, as Minsky argued. They’ll extrapolate forward good times and see fantastic times in the future. Then to do it, they’ve got to borrow money. When they borrow money, they accumulate debt, and the process of both borrowing money adds to demand, accumulating debt adds to a lock on the system, that when that inter distribution turns against them again, they’ve accumulated additional debt and you can be in a serious crisis.

Steve Keen: You recognise that mechanism exists and you say, “What other mechanism can we add to counter it?”
tfw Minsky's parents were Mensheviks :beli

edit: later in this interview, he dunks on the subjective theory of value :lol and says that a model of value has to be objective! In every other interview (and his Manifesto) he always manages to give a quick shoutout to daddy Marx, too. Steve, you are so close! It is tantalizing.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 29, 2019, 12:46:52 AM
The guy who started Live Aid runs a company through Mauritius to suck money out of Africa now. :lol They don't even try anymore.

https://www.icij.org/investigations/mauritius-leaks/treasure-island-leak-reveals-how-mauritius-siphons-tax-from-poor-nations-to-benefit-elites/
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 29, 2019, 03:35:41 PM
https://twitter.com/jamieson/status/1155873377560727552
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on July 29, 2019, 03:58:35 PM
https://twitter.com/welshsnarker/status/1154715651921121280 (https://twitter.com/welshsnarker/status/1154715651921121280)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 30, 2019, 02:44:20 AM
Inspired to make a meme while looking for an old political cartoon (like from the early 20th century).

(https://i.imgur.com/iSTOVnT.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on July 30, 2019, 03:07:20 AM
Evangelion 4.0: I Will (Not) Read Settlers
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: toku on July 30, 2019, 03:05:34 PM
https://twitter.com/OldFrenchCrime/status/1156056658562441216
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on July 30, 2019, 05:05:18 PM
https://twitter.com/naomimonster1/status/1155634789095018496

go raidahs!
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 30, 2019, 06:34:19 PM
Glenn Greenwald on Chapo. I still hate his voice, his contrarianism, and his fans but man, he did some good work with the Lula scandal. Great listen so far. I don't know too much about  politics but it sounds like a certain class are able to construct legal bodies and '''''''''investigatory forces''''''''' without too much trouble.

I couldn't help but think of the departed Assimilate when he described the archetypal Bolsonaro voter.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 31, 2019, 01:56:09 PM
Yeah, it reminded me of older episodes of the show. (At least older free episodes.)

A thing that kind of struck me is how he pointed out that political corruption follows democratization as a matter of course; it's a necessity to mediate various conflicts and inexperience. Of course it never goes away in some places like the U.S. but that's a different can of worms.

Would have liked a brief digression about how Brazil's political system was designed to be dysfunctional after democratization to ward off seizures of power but turning the tide against "governments built on the premise of distrust" should probably start with their consequences in the core (oligarchy, unaccountability, et cetera) before the periphery and semi-periphery.

Anyway:

Calling Dilma a badass for being a Marxist guerrilla. :leon

Calling his husband's party dogmatic. :kermit

Realizing that he doesn't know Felix and Virgil were responsible for the Carl Diggler podcast he went on. Chapo got better opsec than the NSA. :sabu
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: toku on July 31, 2019, 03:49:58 PM
here you go comrade (https://www.reddit.com/r/BlackWolfFeed/)

spoiler (click to show/hide)
I used to have a link for the patreon feed you could just plug into vlc but i cant find it rn/remember what it is even though its still tied to my vlc
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on July 31, 2019, 05:07:11 PM
Inspired to make a meme while looking for an old political cartoon (like from the early 20th century).

(https://i.imgur.com/iSTOVnT.jpg)

Link to your patreon for furry commissions ?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on July 31, 2019, 07:12:30 PM
OK, the fuck is Settlers? Why are y'all so into it?

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/615H5ZMhB7L.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on July 31, 2019, 07:35:29 PM
OK, the fuck is Settlers? Why are y'all so into it?

http://readsettlers.org/text-index.html

spoiler (click to show/hide)
I still only skimmed parts of it.  :doge
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on July 31, 2019, 07:45:46 PM
OK, the fuck is Settlers? Why are y'all so into it?
https://www.ubisoft.com/en-us/game/the-settlers-history-collection/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJZZoFy4JQ8
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on July 31, 2019, 07:47:17 PM
READ KARA'S TAG
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on July 31, 2019, 08:04:06 PM
OK, the fuck is Settlers? Why are y'all so into it?

http://readsettlers.org/text-index.html

spoiler (click to show/hide)
I still only skimmed parts of it.  :doge
[close]

Yeah OK I know what it is now and I'm too lazy to read all that #YesMandark

Quote
Come listen to Kyle Stegerwald give a summary and thoughts on the book, "Settlers: The Mythology of the White Proletariat from Mayflower to Modern" by J. Sakai. You never think about the American War for Independence again!

*disclaimer* The views of the speakers do not necessarily reflect the views of the Revolutionary Students Union as a whole. The RSU itself is non-tendency, but is firmly anti-capitalist. **Double Disclaimer** SDS does not endorse or reject any of the views and ideas put forward in this video. This video was an upload by an affiliate (Revolutionary Students' Union) that has since changed their name to Univ. of Utah SDS. **Double Disclaimer** SDS does not endorse or reject any of the views and ideas put forward in this video. This video was an upload by an affiliate (Revolutionary Students' Union) that has since changed their name to Univ. of Utah SDS.

(https://i.imgur.com/h4UACkl.png)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=q2xgc5pPibM


Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 31, 2019, 08:18:13 PM
It's a racial history of the United States written by an autodidact worker who was a Maoist and an ethnic minority.

It's pretty mean-spirited but that's not unwarranted when it comes to U.S. history.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on July 31, 2019, 11:22:21 PM
https://harpers.org/blog/2019/07/revolution-to-the-end-a-guide-to-the-democratic-candidates-communists/ (https://harpers.org/blog/2019/07/revolution-to-the-end-a-guide-to-the-democratic-candidates-communists/)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 01, 2019, 01:34:45 AM
SCMP :mynicca
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on August 01, 2019, 01:52:55 AM
Not going to attempt to forecast China but when the CPC had beef with Wal-Mart awhile back they surreptitiously unionized several stores, something I think we can all agree is no small task.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 01, 2019, 02:00:57 AM
I wouldn't last a week
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 01, 2019, 02:13:42 AM
I wouldn't last a week
(https://external-preview.redd.it/T2faaKpXP0UVPWPZLQybP6dDZgU35UpksGxB3ni2CJM.jpg?auto=webp&s=870c0f566c4100f576d35e46e2cbb5d95f59e10d)

WE DEMAND TO KNOW THE TRUTH
XI JINPING, WHAT IS YOUR SAFE WORD?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on August 01, 2019, 04:59:03 PM
:jeb
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: HardcoreRetro on August 02, 2019, 12:42:13 PM
Why's this thread have a picture of Winnie the Pooh in a gimp costume?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on August 02, 2019, 05:52:44 PM
Why's this thread have a picture of Winnie the Pooh in a gimp costume?

Don't praxis-shame.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 02, 2019, 05:58:29 PM
Why's this thread have a picture of Winnie the Pooh in a gimp costume?
(https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/ed42ee5c-22f3-44b8-8b27-27fe05568034/d8xtcjw-db0aa44c-f7df-41c8-b57f-6bb0fb020b31.jpg/v1/fill/w_768,h_1040,q_70,strp/xi_jinping_by_klebas3d_d8xtcjw-pre.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9MjE2NiIsInBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2VkNDJlZTVjLTIyZjMtNDRiOC04YjI3LTI3ZmUwNTU2ODAzNFwvZDh4dGNqdy1kYjBhYTQ0Yy1mN2RmLTQxYzgtYjU3Zi02YmIwZmIwMjBiMzEuanBnIiwid2lkdGgiOiI8PTE2MDAifV1dLCJhdWQiOlsidXJuOnNlcnZpY2U6aW1hZ2Uub3BlcmF0aW9ucyJdfQ.76S_IYJhaj4j8PLgk5vlwe7V0JeqbEubEq93N78zzDI)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on August 02, 2019, 09:19:42 PM
Avakianites at it again :dead

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jul/19/los-angeles-police-informant-anti-trump-activist-protest

Quote
During an 11 October meeting, the informant approached Antonio and said, “Are we gonna do like any freeway things again…or major things like that?”, according to a transcript of a secret recording.

“I’m not sure,” Antonio responded.

The informant then said he was interested in joining future activities: “I thought the freeway thing was pretty good.”

 :lol I hope this goober fleeced the LAPD.

Anyway, freedom of speech, assembly, and worship, 100% real things in AmeriKKKa am I right.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on August 02, 2019, 09:36:46 PM
Quote
In one case, police noted in a write-up that one of the activists was caught on the recording making a joke about the president, saying, “That’s an awfully hot coffeepot, should I drop it on Donald Trump?”

Thankfully, the tireless work of the LAPD managed to foil this serious plot in time. :salute
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on August 03, 2019, 01:17:21 AM
We have detected a login with your Ubisoft account from the following country and IP:

    Country: Venezuela
    IP address: 201.***.***.118


Damn, the compradores are finally coming after me. :heh
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on August 03, 2019, 09:42:21 AM
https://youtu.be/8rTdzk6G5js

:juche
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on August 03, 2019, 12:50:03 PM
https://twitter.com/maytham956/status/1157621674252165122
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Rufus on August 03, 2019, 01:21:47 PM
https://www.talkingpoliticspodcast.com/blog/2019/175-talking-politics-guide-to-the-gilded-age

Quote
We talk to historian Sarah Churchwell about the Gilded Age in late nineteenth century America and the comparisons with today. Rampant inequality, racial conflict, fights over immigration, technological revolution: is Trump's America repeating the pattern or is it something new?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on August 03, 2019, 01:40:44 PM
I thought combining the Bire‘s two favorite things, Juche and Yugoslavia, would net me more likes. :fbm
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on August 03, 2019, 01:43:33 PM
:whew benji's real YouTube channel is lit y'all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wklypvFKuaU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVhqbVJ5v5Y


Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on August 03, 2019, 01:44:34 PM
I thought combining the Bire‘s two favorite things, Juche and Yugoslavia, would net me more likes. :fbm

Mistake rectified!
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on August 03, 2019, 01:45:46 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9ClgZTX2Q8
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on August 03, 2019, 04:35:25 PM
Avakianites at it again :dead

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jul/19/los-angeles-police-informant-anti-trump-activist-protest

Are there any known cases of cops infiltrating the DSA? Sort of the ultimate insult if they haven't bothered
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on August 03, 2019, 05:35:50 PM
https://twitter.com/Lexialex/status/1157760938709098496
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on August 03, 2019, 05:39:29 PM
Her Punisher film was alright.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: toku on August 03, 2019, 06:46:54 PM
https://youtu.be/R7u8C-rcU3k
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on August 04, 2019, 04:54:52 PM
Yo settlin' peepz.
Yesterday I was settling my own business as a settler when that girl came and try to settle me! What the settle ? Stop gold settling you settler !
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 04, 2019, 05:23:48 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/GrMEQ5f.png)

:rofl  :heartbeat :heartbeat :heartbeat
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Himu on August 04, 2019, 05:25:01 PM
Still no left libertarian option in America.

Please rebrand libertarianism so it’s no longer associated with crooks like McAfee.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on August 04, 2019, 05:44:02 PM
#Benji/stost 2020 :american
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 04, 2019, 05:51:47 PM
#Benji/stost 2020 :american
(https://i.imgur.com/jRun8bS.jpg)

(https://radical.town/media/radical-town-media/media_attachments/files/001/269/366/original/3fe557662c10c0be.png)

(https://joindiaspora.com/uploads/images/252e9f86184f63e3aead.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on August 04, 2019, 05:56:16 PM
Feeding children food instead of arguing for their right to participate in the wage labor market doesn't sound very libertarian :camby

if we don't let children starve then parents starving children is incentivized
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Himu on August 04, 2019, 06:10:57 PM
Honest question: Why should any of us be socialists? I used to be socialist. I still agree with basically everything Bernie is saying. So maybe I still am. But social democracy might be as far as I want to go. I used to be libertarian socialist - an anarchist basically. The libertarian views stuck, the socialist views didn't. But given my exposure to socialists and communists why would I want them in charge? I've seen how socialists act when you go against their ideology. They demand such purity that when I study history it's very easy for me to come to understand why far leftists always purge their enemies with fire, blood, and bullets even if they were originally allies as seen by the social democrats and the bolsheviks.

Honestly, the SJWs demanding purity, et al and kicking me out of BLM for instance just because I thought,"maybe we shouldn't protest pride" has made me realize that if socialists did have power it would turn ugly indeed.

Convince me otherwise. I've never seen socialists sans social democrats espouse respect for human rights and things like free speech. On the contrary, often, they mock it. By mocking it, they show they don't value diversity in opinion and thought. That's where the purges start.

You guys keep talking socialism stuff on this board but I fear given my very direct experience with the far left that it'd turn into gulags at moments notice.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on August 04, 2019, 06:16:01 PM
Honest question: Why should any of us be socialists? I used to be socialist. I still agree with basically everything Bernie is saying. So maybe I still am. But social democracy might be as far as I want to go. I used to be libertarian socialist - an anarchist basically. The libertarian views stuck, the socialist views didn't. But given my exposure to socialists and communists why would I want them in charge? I've seen how socialists act when you go against their ideology. They demand such purity that when I study history it's very easy for me to come to understand why far leftists always purge their enemies with fire, blood, and bullets even if they were originally allies as seen by the social democrats and the bolsheviks.

Honestly, the SJWs demanding purity, et al and kicking me out of BLM for instance just because I thought,"maybe we shouldn't protest pride" has made me realize that if socialists did have power it would turn ugly indeed.

Convince me otherwise. I've never seen socialists sans social democrats espouse respect for human rights and things like free speech. On the contrary, often, they mock it. By mocking it, they show they don't value diversity in opinion and thought. That's where the purges start.

You guys keep talking socialism stuff on this board but I fear given my very direct experience with the far left that it'd turn into gulags at moments notice.

It's bizarre when cons were calling antifa/commies nazis. It is like everyone forgot the USSR existed and you don't need to be a nazi to be totalitarian or persecute opposition
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Himu on August 04, 2019, 06:21:22 PM
Antifa whackos are nuts. I lost a friend to antifa. I was apparently "hateful" and "turning the other cheek" by thinking "maybe it's not a good idea to go punching random people as it gives sympathy to their cause." We both agree the Richard Spencer's are poison but have different methods. But somehow I'm "hateful" for not willing random violence on people.

That's when I started to turn around on socialism: their tendency to talk about violence outright rather than as a last resort.

People can yap leftist crap all they want but they've got a good lot of explaining to most people why we should support much less trust them. And of course, they'll take that as an attack. Because they're authoritarians.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on August 04, 2019, 06:26:12 PM
Antifa whackos are nuts. I lost a friend to antifa. I was apparently "hateful" and "turning the other cheek" by thinking "maybe it's not a good idea to go punching random people as it gives sympathy to their cause." We both agree the Richard Spencer's are poison but have different methods. But somehow I'm "hateful" for not willing random violence on people.

That's when I started to turn around on socialism: their tendency to talk about violence outright rather than as a last resort.

My issue with it is the definition of nazi is entirely arbitrary now and is synonymous with person you don't agree with. Resulting in a mob that gives itself carte blanche to assault people they don't like as anyone opposed to them is clearly the bad guy. It is self righteous and a complex that they are always the ones in the right tuned to a belligerent degree.

Starts with something people agree with (spencer) and feedback loops to include varying people and propagates due to the catharsis the mob feels (beating randos).
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Himu on August 04, 2019, 06:32:24 PM
Antifa whackos are nuts. I lost a friend to antifa. I was apparently "hateful" and "turning the other cheek" by thinking "maybe it's not a good idea to go punching random people as it gives sympathy to their cause." We both agree the Richard Spencer's are poison but have different methods. But somehow I'm "hateful" for not willing random violence on people.

That's when I started to turn around on socialism: their tendency to talk about violence outright rather than as a last resort.

My issue with it is the definition of nazi is entirely arbitrary now and is synonymous with person you don't agree with. Resulting in a mob that gives itself carte blanche to assault people they don't like as anyone opposed to them is clearly the bad guy. It is self righteous and a complex that they are always the ones in the right tuned to a belligerent degree.

Starts with something people agree with (spencer) and feedback loops to include varying people and propagates due to the catharsis the mob feels (beating randos).

That's the worst of leftism: the mob mentality. There's merit in collectivism but when it gets to the point where there's emphasis on "we all need to think the same way", that's when the red flags start showing up. Don't get me wrong. All groups are like this. It's only human to do this and find an other and form an "us". But leftists, more than any ideology I've seen bar fascism and white supremacy, has a tendency to embrace this more than any ideology and I've personally witnessed it online and in real life.

Leftists scare me.

You can shame and mock "bubububu gulags" but I've seen exactly where their collectivist tendencies head toward - piety - and there's no amount of good points made, from the excesses capitalism to its sustainability, that can regain that trust once it's broken.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 04, 2019, 06:36:42 PM
Leftists scare me.
(https://i.imgur.com/mkKxujm.jpg?1)

https://thebaffler.com/your-sorry-ass/no-wokeness-no-worries-frost

Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on August 04, 2019, 06:39:44 PM
It's interesting how events shape people's stances differently.
You feel driven Libertarian, I feel pushed more Authoritarian, as I find security and order to be pressing concerns.

Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Himu on August 04, 2019, 06:49:39 PM
It's interesting how events shape people's stances differently.
You feel driven Libertarian, I feel pushed more Authoritarian, as I find security and order to be pressing concerns.

The problem with authoritarianism is that states change. Rulers change. You can like authority be doled out on one group you dislike but what happens if the seasons change or the ruler changes and it's you on the firing end? This is precisely why when Trump won the presidency my trust in the state as an institution literally died overnight. Don't get me wrong, it's a valuable institution and unfortunately a necessary evil. But in America we have the potentiality of changing the state and the way it functions every few years. You can go from Obama to Trump and have most of Obama's legacy wiped out over just a few months. Do I trust in Trump's government to protect me? I bought a gun just a few months later after the revelation. That election was life changing and there is no going back.

Basically...

(https://i.imgur.com/Y9YYalA.gif)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Himu on August 04, 2019, 06:55:15 PM
See? None of that was said much less hinted at but you get a passive aggressive post that presumes free speech is perfect (this was never said) and other assumptions because you don't fully agree with their ideology. Like I said, piety.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on August 04, 2019, 06:59:33 PM
It's interesting how events shape people's stances differently.
You feel driven Libertarian, I feel pushed more Authoritarian, as I find security and order to be pressing concerns.

The problem with authoritarianism is that states change. Rulers change. You can like authority be doled out on one group you dislike but what happens if the seasons change or the ruler changes and it's you on the firing end? This is precisely why when Trump won the presidency my trust in the state as an institution literally died overnight. Don't get me wrong, it's a valuable institution and unfortunately a necessary evil. But in America we have the potentiality of changing the state and the way it functions every few years. You can go from Obama to Trump and have most of Obama's legacy wiped out over just a few months. Do I trust in Trump's government to protect me? I bought a gun just a few months later after the revelation. That election was life changing and there is no going back.

Basically...

(https://i.imgur.com/Y9YYalA.gif)

geez, I was literally thinking about LotGH when typing that, I should really watch that
the quote about "masses truly wanting an autocrat" came to mind

but yeah, the balancing act always comes down to the imagined just dictator, the noble noble, the sinless king, etc
power corrupts though
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Himu on August 04, 2019, 07:16:48 PM
I very much agree with Yang.

Democracy is the superior system.

Yeah, monarchy is faster because there's less cooks in the kitchen. But what happens when the just, good ruler has a child? What if their child is a despot? Although flawed, democracy just sounds a better system to me.

I also support Yang's making a new nation when the democratic state falls to its own excesses.

You should definitely watch LOGH. You'll see where you land by maybe episode 50.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHU8bSMl3xc

https://youtu.be/EIMIpj20Ajw

So you're pro-Reinhard huh? Or just respect authority in general?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on August 04, 2019, 07:25:42 PM
A mixture of valuing order and a strong leader.
But a disdain for corrupt/oppressive leaders. Creates a contradictory stance of sorts since by nature oppressive and strong would likely come together with corrupt.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on August 04, 2019, 07:27:04 PM
The 8values political test from the other thread tends to put me between left wing populism and autocracy
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Himu on August 04, 2019, 07:28:47 PM
Ah, I'm on the left libertarian scale.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: toku on August 04, 2019, 07:33:34 PM
Just become an anarchist coward
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Himu on August 04, 2019, 07:37:44 PM
A mixture of valuing order and a strong leader.
But a disdain for corrupt/oppressive leaders. Creates a contradictory stance of sorts since by nature oppressive and strong would likely come together with corrupt.

So what happens when one ruler is strong but just, and the next one is corrupt? What do you do then? And how do you stave off assassinations to usurp power which are so prominent in governments like that?

Do you support Trump and how did you come about preferring authority systems?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on August 04, 2019, 08:20:25 PM
A mixture of valuing order and a strong leader.
But a disdain for corrupt/oppressive leaders. Creates a contradictory stance of sorts since by nature oppressive and strong would likely come together with corrupt.

So what happens when one ruler is strong but just, and the next one is corrupt? What do you do then? And how do you stave off assassinations to usurp power which are so prominent in governments like that?
There in lies the contradictions. There's no reason for those problems to not be prolific.

Do you support Trump and how did you come about preferring authority systems?
He's had a few good points along the way (shit sucks in the states), but continues along by being an idol of blunders and the entire idea of rich people being immune to consequences. made manifest
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 04, 2019, 09:01:13 PM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/gf4oe92JaQoFsmbkf4/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 04, 2019, 09:24:26 PM
Honest question: Why should any of us be socialists?
There once was a world famous scientist that used his audience to advocate for socialism, but this cost him a lot both personally and publicly. After his death we taught his name to every child but never mentioned he was a socialist. That scientist's name? (https://monthlyreview.org/2009/05/01/why-socialism/)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on August 04, 2019, 09:26:00 PM
Honest question: Why should any of us be socialists?
There once was a world famous scientist that used his audience to advocate for socialism, but this cost him a lot both personally and publicly. After his death we taught his name to every child but never mentioned he was a socialist. That scientist's name? (https://monthlyreview.org/2009/05/01/why-socialism/)

I legit thought this was a libcom link.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 04, 2019, 11:25:15 PM
Wow, I broke my nonverbal kayfabe for nothing :shaq2
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Trent Dole on August 05, 2019, 12:24:55 AM
https://twitter.com/CNMneews/status/1158162535020814336
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on August 05, 2019, 12:26:50 AM
engaging cindi on a weekend with multiple mass shootings :ufup
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 05, 2019, 12:30:50 AM
You know what kills me the most... Cindi, you waltz in here, asking, "Why would anyone want to be a socialist? They all end up being crazy SJW purists." First of all, one obviously doesn't imply the other and you know that, and second, you're asking us to defend that, which implies WE'RE like that (and telling Esch that out right just because he served you some piping hot sarcasm). Bitch, I stood up for your ass and got your account approved on Resetera.com, and then I personally stood up for you in threads there, and I STILL would have done that even if I knew you'd slap me in the face with some lazy Texas rhetoric two years later. When you want to ask me an honest question that treats me as an individual and not a punching bag for your bolshevik boogeymen, I'd be glad to tell you what I think and why I think it.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on August 05, 2019, 01:48:19 AM
I think the framing here misses the point.

A socialist society can be achieved with or without a formal, de jure "state" as long as someone is able to confiscate Cindi's guns.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 05, 2019, 03:49:17 AM
"Ann Archy" is literally a liberal trucker :rejoice
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BIONIC on August 05, 2019, 04:05:17 AM
You know what kills me the most... Cindi, you waltz in here, asking, "Why would anyone want to be a socialist? They all end up being crazy SJW purists." First of all, one obviously doesn't imply the other and you know that, and second, you're asking us to defend that, which implies WE'RE like that (and telling Esch that out right just because he served you some piping hot sarcasm). Bitch, I stood up for your ass and got your account approved on Resetera.com, and then I personally stood up for you in threads there, and I STILL would have done that even if I knew you'd slap me in the face with some lazy Texas rhetoric two years later. When you want to ask me an honest question that treats me as an individual and not a punching bag for your bolshevik boogeymen, I'd be glad to tell you what I think and why I think it.

Get cucked by Cindi brehs  :umad
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Himu on August 05, 2019, 01:28:41 PM
See? None of that was said much less hinted at but you get a passive aggressive post that presumes free speech is perfect (this was never said) and other assumptions because you don't fully agree with their ideology. Like I said, piety.

I legitimately don't give a shit about you being in line with my ideology, i just find your reduction of leftists, historical left movements and generalizations about mentality to be laughable and not worth engaging with in good faith.

I did come in here in good faith.

I even had a nice discussion  with someone who is completely opposite of my political ideology. Unlike people like Shostakovich and Curly, we’ve known each other for years. So you thinking I can’t talk in good faith about while acknowledging I agree with some form of socialism is disappointing.

But ok.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Himu on August 05, 2019, 01:31:03 PM
A mixture of valuing order and a strong leader.
But a disdain for corrupt/oppressive leaders. Creates a contradictory stance of sorts since by nature oppressive and strong would likely come together with corrupt.

So what happens when one ruler is strong but just, and the next one is corrupt? What do you do then? And how do you stave off assassinations to usurp power which are so prominent in governments like that?
There in lies the contradictions. There's no reason for those problems to not be prolific.

Do you support Trump and how did you come about preferring authority systems?
He's had a few good points along the way (shit sucks in the states), but continues along by being an idol of blunders and the entire idea of rich people being immune to consequences. made manifest

So you’d be fine with Trump so long as he wasn’t a blunder bus, faced the consequences of his actions, and wasn’t a spoiled rich brat?
 
What are your thoughts on Brazil’s new PM?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Himu on August 05, 2019, 01:36:38 PM
You know what kills me the most... Cindi, you waltz in here, asking, "Why would anyone want to be a socialist? They all end up being crazy SJW purists." First of all, one obviously doesn't imply the other and you know that, and second, you're asking us to defend that, which implies WE'RE like that (and telling Esch that out right just because he served you some piping hot sarcasm). Bitch, I stood up for your ass and got your account approved on Resetera.com, and then I personally stood up for you in threads there, and I STILL would have done that even if I knew you'd slap me in the face with some lazy Texas rhetoric two years later. When you want to ask me an honest question that treats me as an individual and not a punching bag for your bolshevik boogeymen, I'd be glad to tell you what I think and why I think it.

:fbm

....

Sorry.

I definitely, uh, framed that badly. *scratches head*

To be honest I was a little confused about being accused of being a purity/piety(?) tester by a person who uses the word authoritarian as a shibboleth for whats Good and Bad... Who once got @ me for being too critical of drone bombings.

 :doge

I’m not sure this is me. Drone bombings and Obama’s foreign policy is why I didn’t vote for him in 2012. That year I voted green. I’m very much against the American war machine and especially drones. It disgusted me that democrats would say they were a good thing because that meant less American soldier deaths while they were targeting “terrorists” which killed random people, including children. Suddenly overnight the Democratic Party were fine with the advance of war as imperialism so long as it was their side doing it. I’ve discussed that at length here and how much it shaped my political views of both parties.

I’m pretty confident that wasn’t me. If it was I’m positive you misconstrued my meaning. Because I got into this with Mandark many times especially during 2012 and my view on war, imperialism, staying out of foreign nations has been a  major part of my political identity. I’m very non-interventionist. It’s partly why I’m  a big supporter of Tulsi Gabbard.

Speaking of Tulsi, I think that’s what you’re referring to. I expressed support for Tulsi and you mentioned her wanting drones against the Taliban in years old tweets. I don’t think I @‘d you about it though and it was an enlightening set of tweets that made me reconsider my support for Gabbard because I fear she might be a hidden imperialist hiding behind a Trumpian “America First” mask.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Himu on August 05, 2019, 02:31:43 PM
RE: authoritarianism. For me, authoritarianism is about flexing power to force a populace to do things while constraining their individual freedom. Who use unfair means to dole out justice to spread their authority. So Kamala’s history with imprisoning people, her views her on taking property by force, her threats of jail time, and being hard on crime are authoritarian to me. Maybe I’ve used the word too much, but it’s definitely a big concern. I guess it’s a mis-characterization for my part. In my experience, Democrats and Republicans are more authoritarian than leftists.

Yeah, I consider us friends as well. And I don't think youre uninterested. But you didn't even ask us to explain or have a discussion of the purpose of state arrangement or power. You just basically asked us to account for all the historical excesses of class warfare and then continued to pathologize leftists which... Most people aren't going to be receptive of?

:idont

The historical injustices aren't my main point although I could see why they were thought of such because it's a common argument against leftist philosophy. My point was that from what I have seen and witnessed a lot of people on the left (the real left, not the American "left") fall into a mindset where different values, opinions, and viewpoints aren't considered. They're often combative towards views they disagree with and don't value freedom of speech. That isn't to say freedom of speech is a perfect thing, or should be treated as a religious doctrine, but the ability to express oneself is a major boon to freeing people from bourgeoisie rule.

Yet it's not valued. In real life examples, I have been kicked out of leftist organizations like BLM for going against the group's common thought. I found that many of them have a tendency to go into mob mentality and given the historical injustices it's hard to not think about them. But they're not the main point. The main point is that inability in many leftist circles to express yourself if it goes against the "common sense" of the group. Given that many socialists and communists believe that the current paradigm should be replaced this forces you to ask questions. If this is how they act now, how would they act with power? So even if I agree with socialists on many issues, it's hard for me to trust them. I wrote a post about it and went about it the wrong way, but I still think the concern is there.

How do you think the state should function? What are your opinions of the state and how should power be distributed?

So I guess it comes down to individual vs the collective in regards to our philosophies coming at a head. For me, I think both are needed but that the individual needs freedom to be their own person. My own personal philosophy is that personal liberty is one of the dearest things in the world, but the problem is that how can this interact with other people's liberty? It's important for someone to be able to think, and feel, and do what they think is right so long as it doesn't disable someone else's ability to do so. What do you personally think of that? What is your opinion of liberty?

And what do you mean "We simply have different views on liberation and what's important in the world"? What do you find important in the world and what are your thoughts on liberation? What do you perceive my thoughts on liberation are?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on August 05, 2019, 02:34:57 PM
My point was that from what I have seen and witnessed a lot of people on the left (the real left, not the American "left") fall into a mindset where different values, opinions, and viewpoints aren't considered. They're often combative towards views they disagree with

Cindi!

This is you!

Multiple times!
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Himu on August 05, 2019, 02:36:53 PM
My point was that from what I have seen and witnessed a lot of people on the left (the real left, not the American "left") fall into a mindset where different values, opinions, and viewpoints aren't considered. They're often combative towards views they disagree with

Cindi!

This is you!

Multiple times!

Yeah. You're right.

The difference is I don't have an entire group backing me.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 05, 2019, 02:41:40 PM
Quote
Without general elections, without freedom of the press, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, without the free battle of opinions, life in every public institution withers away, becomes a caricature of itself, and bureaucracy rises as the only deciding factor.
- Rosa Luxemburg
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Oblivion on August 05, 2019, 02:43:56 PM
RE: authoritarianism. For me, authoritarianism is about flexing power to force a populace to do things while constraining their individual freedom. Who use unfair means to dole out justice to spread their authority. So Kamala’s history with imprisoning people, her views her on taking property by force, her threats of jail time, and being hard on crime are authoritarian to me. Maybe I’ve used the word too much, but it’s definitely a big concern. I guess it’s a mis-characterization for my part. In my experience, Democrats and Republicans are more authoritarian than leftists.

Whoa, hold on there. This seems like a bait and switch, Cind-chan. I don't think anyone would disagree with what you're saying here. But you weren't complaining about Kamala Harris putting parents in jail. You were complaining about shit like overbearing resetera mods, twitter shadowbanning rightwingres, and BLM activists being mean to you
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Himu on August 05, 2019, 02:46:20 PM
RE: authoritarianism. For me, authoritarianism is about flexing power to force a populace to do things while constraining their individual freedom. Who use unfair means to dole out justice to spread their authority. So Kamala’s history with imprisoning people, her views her on taking property by force, her threats of jail time, and being hard on crime are authoritarian to me. Maybe I’ve used the word too much, but it’s definitely a big concern. I guess it’s a mis-characterization for my part. In my experience, Democrats and Republicans are more authoritarian than leftists.

Whoa, hold on there. This seems like a bait and switch, Cind-chan. I don't think anyone would disagree with what you're saying here. But you weren't complaining about Kamala Harris putting parents in jail. You were complaining about shit like overbearing resetera mods, twitter shadowbanning rightwingres, and BLM activists being mean to you

I've talked about Kamala very frequently and even have her as a cop as my avatar.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on August 05, 2019, 02:47:51 PM
this all started after kamala said something about using exec orders to take away cindi's guns
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Oblivion on August 05, 2019, 02:47:57 PM
RE: authoritarianism. For me, authoritarianism is about flexing power to force a populace to do things while constraining their individual freedom. Who use unfair means to dole out justice to spread their authority. So Kamala’s history with imprisoning people, her views her on taking property by force, her threats of jail time, and being hard on crime are authoritarian to me. Maybe I’ve used the word too much, but it’s definitely a big concern. I guess it’s a mis-characterization for my part. In my experience, Democrats and Republicans are more authoritarian than leftists.

Whoa, hold on there. This seems like a bait and switch, Cind-chan. I don't think anyone would disagree with what you're saying here. But you weren't complaining about Kamala Harris putting parents in jail. You were complaining about shit like overbearing resetera mods, twitter shadowbanning rightwingres, and BLM activists being mean to you

I've talked about Kamala very frequently and even have her as a cop as my avatar.

That...wasn't the point of my post.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Oblivion on August 05, 2019, 02:50:22 PM
I'm talking about this post:

Honest question: Why should any of us be socialists? I used to be socialist. I still agree with basically everything Bernie is saying. So maybe I still am. But social democracy might be as far as I want to go. I used to be libertarian socialist - an anarchist basically. The libertarian views stuck, the socialist views didn't. But given my exposure to socialists and communists why would I want them in charge? I've seen how socialists act when you go against their ideology. They demand such purity that when I study history it's very easy for me to come to understand why far leftists always purge their enemies with fire, blood, and bullets even if they were originally allies as seen by the social democrats and the bolsheviks.

Honestly, the SJWs demanding purity, et al and kicking me out of BLM for instance just because I thought,"maybe we shouldn't protest pride" has made me realize that if socialists did have power it would turn ugly indeed.

Convince me otherwise. I've never seen socialists sans social democrats espouse respect for human rights and things like free speech. On the contrary, often, they mock it. By mocking it, they show they don't value diversity in opinion and thought. That's where the purges start.

You guys keep talking socialism stuff on this board but I fear given my very direct experience with the far left that it'd turn into gulags at moments notice.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 05, 2019, 02:50:32 PM
In my experience, Democrats and Republicans are more authoritarian than leftists.
Given that many socialists and communists believe that the current paradigm should be replaced this forces you to ask questions. If this is how they act now, how would they act with power? So even if I agree with socialists on many issues, it's hard for me to trust them.
how do you trust the Democrats and Republicans in power then
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Himu on August 05, 2019, 02:54:32 PM
this all started after kamala said something about using exec orders to take away cindi's guns

No, it started very much before due to her prosecutor background, and history of prison use. The talk about using exec orders to take away guns is really just a confirmation of per-existing prejudices.

RE: authoritarianism. For me, authoritarianism is about flexing power to force a populace to do things while constraining their individual freedom. Who use unfair means to dole out justice to spread their authority. So Kamala’s history with imprisoning people, her views her on taking property by force, her threats of jail time, and being hard on crime are authoritarian to me. Maybe I’ve used the word too much, but it’s definitely a big concern. I guess it’s a mis-characterization for my part. In my experience, Democrats and Republicans are more authoritarian than leftists.

Whoa, hold on there. This seems like a bait and switch, Cind-chan. I don't think anyone would disagree with what you're saying here. But you weren't complaining about Kamala Harris putting parents in jail. You were complaining about shit like overbearing resetera mods, twitter shadowbanning rightwingres, and BLM activists being mean to you

I've talked about Kamala very frequently and even have her as a cop as my avatar.

That...wasn't the point of my post.

You're conflating two different things. I was commenting on Esch's authoritarian remark. I don't think overbearing reset mods are an example of authoritarianism. Reset doesn't matter in the long run, and aren't even an example of the left as they're strong whores of consumption. I do think some activist groups are an example of authoritarian behavior, though.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Himu on August 05, 2019, 02:57:07 PM
I'm talking about this post:

Honest question: Why should any of us be socialists? I used to be socialist. I still agree with basically everything Bernie is saying. So maybe I still am. But social democracy might be as far as I want to go. I used to be libertarian socialist - an anarchist basically. The libertarian views stuck, the socialist views didn't. But given my exposure to socialists and communists why would I want them in charge? I've seen how socialists act when you go against their ideology. They demand such purity that when I study history it's very easy for me to come to understand why far leftists always purge their enemies with fire, blood, and bullets even if they were originally allies as seen by the social democrats and the bolsheviks.

Honestly, the SJWs demanding purity, et al and kicking me out of BLM for instance just because I thought,"maybe we shouldn't protest pride" has made me realize that if socialists did have power it would turn ugly indeed.

Convince me otherwise. I've never seen socialists sans social democrats espouse respect for human rights and things like free speech. On the contrary, often, they mock it. By mocking it, they show they don't value diversity in opinion and thought. That's where the purges start.

You guys keep talking socialism stuff on this board but I fear given my very direct experience with the far left that it'd turn into gulags at moments notice.

Kamala isn't a socialist. The post is about socialism and my experiences with socialists.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on August 05, 2019, 02:58:42 PM
Cindi, I think Wrath nailed it a couple years ago. Your 2015/2016 self was a really angry, unforgiving puritan on political matters and you wound up seeking and surrounding yourself with people who had similar mindsets and dispositions. Of course they were going to act like dicks when you shifted on some issues.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Himu on August 05, 2019, 03:06:54 PM
In my experience, Democrats and Republicans are more authoritarian than leftists.
Given that many socialists and communists believe that the current paradigm should be replaced this forces you to ask questions. If this is how they act now, how would they act with power? So even if I agree with socialists on many issues, it's hard for me to trust them.
how do you trust the Democrats and Republicans in power then

Good question. I really don't and think both parties have far lived out their use. I think both parties need to die. But it's what we have. Ideally, I'd like at least 3-5 party options so more views can be represented.

I don't really trust any form of government or state as I said earlier. Any trust in a state is small. Trust went away the night Donald Trump was elected President. You can trust one government, but then you might get another one entirely four years later. Government isn't worth trusting, but I do find it a useful thing to have. The #dualities. So I agree with the founding fathers in that at least. They made it hard as fuck for the government to wield power over the people because they had a rightful fear of the state and its power and yet still knew the importance of engaging with it. So I find the Democrats and Republicans to be a bastardization of American values, but it's what we have.

For the record, I agree with your Luxemburg quote entirely down to the last letter.

Although I agree with many socialists, how do I know if they're not more of the same - or worse? After all, trust in government has been dissolved. It's easier to trust what you know more than what you don't know.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Himu on August 05, 2019, 03:08:27 PM
Cindi, I think Wrath nailed it a couple years ago. Your 2015/2016 self was a really angry, unforgiving puritan on political matters and you wound up seeking and surrounding yourself with people who had similar mindsets and dispositions. Of course they were going to act like dicks when you shifted on some issues.

So the issue is less socialism and the people I engaged with? :fbm

That's a depressing thought.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 05, 2019, 03:12:29 PM
I don't really trust any form of government or state as I said earlier. Any trust in a state is small.

Although I agree with many socialists, how do I know if they're not more of the same - or worse?
clearly there is a bigger problem if someone tells you they won't take away your freedom of speech and you refuse to believe them

https://www.bustle.com/articles/177783-11-ways-to-learn-how-to-trust-others-again-according-to-experts
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 05, 2019, 03:19:20 PM
Using the tools Dr. Jordan Peterson gave me to figure out that Libertarianism is not a valid ideological choice but rather a symptom of pathological distrust :ohhh
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Himu on August 05, 2019, 03:21:18 PM
I don't really trust any form of government or state as I said earlier. Any trust in a state is small.
Although I agree with many socialists, how do I know if they're not more of the same - or worse?
clearly there is a bigger problem if someone tells you they won't take away your freedom of speech and you refuse to believe them

Well, BLM and Black activism is how I got introduced to socialism to begin with. Black Panthers were Marxist and I was very much was proud of that fact. I would regularly brag that the Black Panthers started the first national breakfast program for children. So I tied socialism to my activism. And yet my opinions did not matter and I felt forced to think one way within activist circles. I saw the dangers of group dynamics and maybe, faulty applied that as a character of all socialism. It was also more than BLM but also my experiences within Antifa. I was surrounded by "do it our way" activists and they scared me. So I possibly, in my puritanical mindset, attributed their authoritarian streak with socialism.

....

I need to go sit down. 

(https://i.imgur.com/FfkUhi9.png)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on August 05, 2019, 03:23:03 PM
So the issue is less socialism and the people I engaged with?

That's a depressing thought.

I remember when you broke from the socialists and started becoming more and more conservative, you kept talking about how the left was dogmatic in a way the right isn't. To someone like me who's been wasting time on this shit since the 90's, that seems nuts, but I think because it was the first time you had seriously considered some of those views, they represented openness and heterogeneity to you. Of course about a year later you wind up concluding that the right-wingers were pretty hypocritical and dogmatic themselves.

That's all just my take from a distant, digital vantage point of course.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Himu on August 05, 2019, 03:25:12 PM
Is there a therapist that helps out with political views?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on August 05, 2019, 03:25:37 PM
Is there a therapist that helps out with political views?

Jordan Peterson
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Himu on August 05, 2019, 03:26:03 PM
Is there a therapist that helps out with political views?

Jordan Peterson

:stahp
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on August 05, 2019, 03:26:17 PM
 :pimp
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Himu on August 05, 2019, 03:32:48 PM
I'm depressed now.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 05, 2019, 03:34:55 PM
Enforcing a group culture is how you get anything done at all. What if that group had accepted blue lives matter slacktivists and you debated the name of your organization every day? A successful group of people figure out the kernel of their principles and aims. Then, through unity of focus, they move single-mindedly toward their goals, defeating their less organized counterparts.

Democratic centralism :rejoice
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Himu on August 05, 2019, 03:40:50 PM
I'd like to talk about this with a therapist but I couldn't trust them to be impartial about it and throw their own politics into the mix.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 05, 2019, 03:41:37 PM
I'd like to talk about this with a therapist but I couldn't trust them
there is that thing again
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Himu on August 05, 2019, 03:47:33 PM
I'd like to talk about this with a therapist but I couldn't trust them
there is that thing again

 :mjcry

Stop :(
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on August 05, 2019, 03:49:17 PM
A mixture of valuing order and a strong leader.
But a disdain for corrupt/oppressive leaders. Creates a contradictory stance of sorts since by nature oppressive and strong would likely come together with corrupt.

So what happens when one ruler is strong but just, and the next one is corrupt? What do you do then? And how do you stave off assassinations to usurp power which are so prominent in governments like that?
There in lies the contradictions. There's no reason for those problems to not be prolific.

Do you support Trump and how did you come about preferring authority systems?
He's had a few good points along the way (shit sucks in the states), but continues along by being an idol of blunders and the entire idea of rich people being immune to consequences. made manifest

So you’d be fine with Trump so long as he wasn’t a blunder bus, faced the consequences of his actions, and wasn’t a spoiled rich brat?
 
What are your thoughts on Brazil’s new PM?

Not sure if it merits consideration. Remove all the negatives of Trump and you've got a completely new person.

I honestly can't say I have much of an opinion given my view of him is characterized by skimming other people's writing and memes
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 05, 2019, 03:52:49 PM
:mjcry

Stop :(
Let me suggest the buddy system. Get a person who you find is historically right about everything, who likes you personally, and who has a lot of patience. Consult with that person every time you have an opinion on something and let them decide your beliefs for you.

In your case, that person is Mandark
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on August 05, 2019, 03:54:08 PM
 :yuck
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Himu on August 05, 2019, 04:03:00 PM
and let them decide your beliefs for you.


No!
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on August 05, 2019, 04:07:33 PM
first thing we're going to do is a trust exercise where you give me all your guns
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Himu on August 05, 2019, 04:08:56 PM
first thing we're going to do is a trust exercise where you give me all your guns

What is it with you and the guns? :maf
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on August 05, 2019, 04:10:58 PM
listen this isn't going to work if you don't commit to the process and let yourself be vulnerable
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Himu on August 05, 2019, 04:12:01 PM
:lol
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on August 05, 2019, 04:16:00 PM
typical white male thinking trans person is mentally unstable  ::) meanwhile, white males continue shooting up the country  :kermit
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on August 05, 2019, 04:16:41 PM
Is there a therapist that helps out with political views?

Jordan Peterson

:notlikethis
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Himu on August 05, 2019, 04:26:15 PM
To be honest, I came here initially because watching the presidential debates is causing massive cognitive dissonance.

Here I am, rooting for Sanders -  my guy from 2016 -  who I personally agree with a large amount. And then there's a voice in my head talking about how he's socialist and this will only bring about chaos and gulags because of socialist collectivism.

It sucks and it's very, very confusing. There's clearly a part of me that still agrees with socialism and I was hoping for someone to help me go through my thoughts here to help me understand why I'm so afraid of something I actually agree with.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 05, 2019, 04:29:30 PM
you really think a democratic socialist is going to put political prisoners in labor camps
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Himu on August 05, 2019, 04:31:31 PM
you really think a democratic socialist is going to put political prisoners in labor camps

No!

I guess it's not so much him, but the movement behind him. Socialism is very en vogue with our age group. So I'm thinking,"what if someone takes advantage of very legitimate socialist views and makes something awful like Castro did with Cuba?"
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Oblivion on August 05, 2019, 04:33:27 PM
all i've learned from the last few pages is that the re-education camps clearly need new management  :cop
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Himu on August 05, 2019, 04:35:36 PM
Who's going to tell her the katorga were a holdover from the tsar and the United States has the largest prison population on earth

I already know that. It's disgusting.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 05, 2019, 04:41:49 PM
I was hoping for someone to help me go through my thoughts here to help me understand why I'm so afraid of something I actually agree with.
Same reason you like guns, you don't trust people and your brain has been poisoned by uniquely American narratives about liberty and socialism

So I'm thinking,"what if someone takes advantage of very legitimate socialist views and makes something awful like Castro did with Cuba?"
What if someone comes along and tells the democratic socialists that he wants to get rid of the democratic part? Are you listening to yourself? What if half the country voted to shoot the other half in the head. What if someone comes along and says we should eat albino babies.

You live in a democracy and people like their freedom, trust them to be normal
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Himu on August 05, 2019, 04:52:45 PM
:fbm

Thanks.  :-\ You’re good at this.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 05, 2019, 04:58:02 PM
Are we not supposed to eat albino babies?


 :nugenix
you know, I wrote that and had forgotten that that actually happens (https://www.latimes.com/world/africa/la-fg-malawi-albinos-hunted-2017-story.html)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on August 05, 2019, 05:09:09 PM
I am teaching a class in Roman History  of Law next semester and I looking for some different perspectives. I am reading Zosimus‘ Historia Nea  and other shit of course, but what got my attention is Michael Parenti,‘s The Assassination of Julius Caesar: A People’s History of Ancient Rome .

I ordered it on amazon. :juche
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on August 05, 2019, 05:20:10 PM
Here I am, rooting for Sanders -  my guy from 2016 -  who I personally agree with a large amount. And then there's a voice in my head talking about how he's socialist and this will only bring about chaos and gulags because of socialist collectivism.

Bernie doesn't even want to get rid of the filibuster.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 05, 2019, 05:22:39 PM
That's not what infantile leftism means :hmph
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on August 05, 2019, 05:22:54 PM
It can‘t be worse than Marx‘s Ethnological notebooks.

That is like the third time I have brought them up to slam them on the Bore, at least they left an impression I guess.  :doge
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Himu on August 05, 2019, 05:28:40 PM
Shosta: how to trust people again then
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on August 05, 2019, 05:29:36 PM
Shosta: how to trust people again then

Join the social democrats and trust them to fuck up. :rodney
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 05, 2019, 05:50:09 PM
https://youtu.be/M-7EKANtYlw
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Himu on August 05, 2019, 05:57:16 PM
Surprisingly found a lot of articles on loss of trust in government institutions and the overall loss of political trust in recent years. But also surprisingly a lot of in-depth ways on how I can hopefully gain it back.

https://apolitical.co/solution_article/trust-government-falling-can-stop/

http://theconversation.com/how-to-restore-trust-in-governments-and-institutions-106547

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/01/trust-trump-america-world/550964/

https://www.opengovpartnership.org/trust/

Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 05, 2019, 06:09:09 PM
you don't even know what people mean when they respond yes or no, which is a fundamental problem with polling in general, you can only ask the same question over several years and track if it goes up or down. It's the same as the congressional approval numbers, everyone hates Congress but they love their congressman.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on August 05, 2019, 07:10:21 PM
https://socialistra.org/
(https://i.imgur.com/YfESH8A.png)
Quote
On Friday, July 19th, the Socialist Rifle Association became an official non-profit member of the National Shooting Sports Foundation. The NSSF conducts expansive industry research, provides grants to colleges for firearms sports, and is the largest firearms trade association in America. The decision to become a member of the NSSF was made with the intent of living up to the SRA's goal of arming and training the working-class for self and community defense. While we understand the NSSF to be a fairly reactionary institution, our hope was to introduce the concept of left wing gun ownership and advocacy to the larger firearms community, especially through participation in events such as SHOT Show. Our announcement of membership in the NSSF was met with broad support from our members, who, like all proponents of the right to self-defense, want to ensure the protection of Americans' second amendment rights.

(https://socialistra.org/news/2019/07/nssf/letter.png)

Quote
On Monday, July 22nd, the SRA received an email informing us that our membership in the NSSF had been rescinded and our $200 nonprofit membership dues were refunded. In a followup email, a representative of the organization claimed that the NSSF stands for "free market capitalism" and that a socialist organization being a member of their trade association would be contrary to their "core values". Further, they claimed both publicly and in the followup email that the SRA had joined through their "automated membership system", with the clear insinuation that they had accepted our membership without knowledge of our organization's values and purpose.

(https://socialistra.org/news/2019/07/nssf/email-response2.png)

Quote
First, a point of fact. The SRA joined via the NSSF's online form, however we followed up with both phone and email correspondence to set up our account and spoke to an individual claiming the title of "Manager, Retail and Range Services". While setting up our online account, an NSSF employee even created the temporary password "Socialist1" for us. While the NSSF board may have been ignorant of our membership, their staff was clearly aware and comfortable with socialists joining their organization. The NSSF board appears to have been notified of our membership Monday due to a social media and phone campaign organized by members of the forum "AR15.com". While we don't wish to generalize the opinions of all members of AR15.com, the thread where this campaign was organized contains antisemitic memes, an individual proffering dox on one of the SRA's board members, and at least two death threats. One of the participants in the thread left a message on the NSSF's voicemail and received a response confirming our expulsion.

The decision by the NSSF to rescind its sponsorship of The Socialist Rifle Association follows a flurry of angry forum posts from those opposed to the SRA on issues unrelated to legal gun ownership. We at the SRA are greatly dismayed that the NSSF has allowed a minuscule, albeit vocal minority of supposed guns rights "activists" to dictate their membership policies to them. The SRA not only represents gun owners who align politically to the left, but also minority groups and members of the LGBTQ+ community who feel unwelcome in many circles that claim to support the Second Amendment rights of ALL Americans. The people that make up these circles represent the same voices that seem to have scared the NSSF away from its initial decision to broaden its scope to include a large contingent of gun owners that feel voiceless in regards to mainstream gun politics.

It is worth questioning the NSSF's wisdom in barring socialists from participating in their trade association. Free market capitalism is deeply unpopular – a 2018 Gallup poll found that a majority of millennials prefer socialism to capitalism, with the latter becoming less popular every year. While many of these millennials may define "socialism" as some form of social democratic system, it is undeniable that "free market capitalism" is not a winning message with the soon-to-be majority age demographic in America. If the NSSF wishes to preserve the right to bear arms, they would be well served by casting as wide an ideological net as possible, so as to avoid becoming irrelevant.

There is a misconception among many conservatives that liberalism and socialism are synonymous, and that both necessarily entail the disarming of the populace. But this is not the case. Gun control is a fundamental component of neo-liberal capitalism and its tendency to commodify, infantilize, and enslave working-class people. Socialism, on the other hand, is a philosophy concerned with emancipating working class people and allowing for their greatest development of individual will and expression. And the right to bear arms for self and community defense is a critical component of that mission. It's a common saying on the left that, "If you go far enough left, eventually you get your guns back." Indeed, there is a long tradition in both socialist and left-anarchist theory of supporting the right to bear arms.

"Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary." – Karl Marx, author of The Communist Manifesto and Das Kapital


"Recollect that in arming yourselves, as you are bound to do unless you are willing to be forced into abject slavery, you are safely within the spirit and letter of the law." – Eugene V. Debs, five-time US Presidential Candidate


"The rifle is the weapon of democracy. Not for nothing was the revolver called an 'equalizer.' Egalite implies liberte. And always will." – Edward Abbey, American anarchist author


"That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." – George Orwell, author, member of the P.O.U.M. militia in the Spanish Civil War


"Any unarmed people are slaves, or are subject to slavery at any moment." – Huey P. Newton, co-founder of the Black Panther Party


While conservatives may doubt our conviction, or believe that our support for gun rights is temporary or conditional, we assure you that we are quite sincere. The right of self and community defense is essential, and firearms are the most practical and equalizing tools for securing that right. If the NSSF and other gun organizations are serious about preserving the second amendment, they would do well to set aside their petty partisan instincts and work to build a diverse coalition that protects the right of all working people to defend themselves.

 :thinking
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Himu on August 05, 2019, 07:22:08 PM
I saw that on r/liberalgunowners.

Pathetic.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on August 05, 2019, 08:22:24 PM
this went from debate to intervention real fast
I'm actually impressed
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on August 05, 2019, 08:48:48 PM
For what it's worth you're right to be skeptical and extremely critical of the state and whoever is in it, that's why I don't mind anarchists, they encourage everyone else to maintain a healthy check on state behavior.
FACT CHECK: No, we don't.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 05, 2019, 11:41:28 PM
DSA took down the video of their conference :dead

Now socialism is NEVER going to happen :maf
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on August 05, 2019, 11:46:42 PM
I admit I only watched the clips everyone is making fun of, but I certainly saw a party desperately in need of some democratic centralism.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on August 05, 2019, 11:47:28 PM
You couldn't interrupt a six hour Brezhnev speech like that.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 05, 2019, 11:53:29 PM
I watched the whole thing and even posted highlights. It was meh. It was seriously wigging me out though that for the whole duration, a solid 10%-20% of the crowd committed to jazz hands
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on August 05, 2019, 11:53:51 PM
are all these pages of posts about how Cindi needs to just settle on malleable form of philosophical anarchism, the final radical view from which there is no escape (until one travels to Poland and sees the beautiful whiteness of all the people there)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: El Babua on August 06, 2019, 01:35:15 AM
The tacit acknowledgment of our fucked up situation by the powers that be combined with our collective will to just sit by and argue over trivial bullshit is why I'm just getting drunk and high while waiting for the other shoe to drop tbh
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Brehvolution on August 06, 2019, 02:30:12 PM
lol china isn't stealing our jobs. American businesses are taking those jobs from Americans to china and have been for over a decade.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 06, 2019, 03:05:40 PM
Quote
The imperative of capitalist profitability ensures that no true assault on the commanding heights of world scientific development and the division of labour can be launched from a low material-social base. Storming the commanding heights would involve competition with the most advanced capital for the most advanced labour processes – a competition that a less developed or, as Che Guevara described it, ill formed capitalist social formation, is ill suited to carry out. This is why frontally challenging imperialism will not deliver the highest available profits to Chinese capital. Challenging imperialist monopoly at its margins is necessary to make profits. Yet a frontal challenge risks complete debacle.

For this reason, the interests of Chinese capital will never form the social basis for a full blooded assault on imperialist dominance (even ignoring the politically perilous level of working class social mobilisation that would be required for an underdeveloped society to wage such a serious campaign against imperialist supremacy). Chinese capitalism is not and can never become the revolutionary social force that can storm the heavens of US power.
Quote
There is no ladder from ordinary to advanced labour accessible to Third World societies – except with the cooperation of imperialist core states. Every Third World society is continuously pulled back into the mundane routine of ordinary labour for the simple reason that this is where their capitalists can make money. There has been no change in that basic social structure of imperialism over the last several decades. Only the technical composition of what constitutes high and low-end labour has evolved in tandem with the general development of the human labour process itself.
:shaq2

Incredible article.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 07, 2019, 07:21:35 PM
Quote
In an unusual move, the Cuban government will defend itself in a U.S. federal court to fight a lawsuit filed by Exxon Mobil seeking compensation for a refinery confiscated by the Fidel Castro government in 1960.

“It’s a new departure. Based on historical records, most people assumed they would not defend themselves in a U.S. court,” said lawyer Robert Muse, an expert on U.S. laws regarding Cuba. “This is genuinely interesting.”

reminder that Cuba offered to compensate for lost business assets with Cuban bonds but the US was the only country to decline
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on August 08, 2019, 07:19:36 AM
based cage https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/08/07/magazine/nicolas-cage-interview.html

Quote
Oh, O.K. I thought you were being metaphorical about going on a grail quest. Yeah, if you go to Glastonbury and go to the Chalice Well, there’s a spring that does taste like blood. I guess it’s really because there’s a lot of iron in the water. But legend had it that in that place was a grail chalice, or two cruets rather, one of blood and one of sweat. But that led to there being talk that people had come to Rhode Island, and they were looking for something as well.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on August 08, 2019, 09:09:39 AM
Cage is actually really interesting to listen to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_WDLsLnOSM
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 09, 2019, 02:17:01 AM
https://twitter.com/ssamcham/status/1159264644416061442

https://twitter.com/ssamcham/status/1159268405813403653

immigrant rights = worker rights
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 09, 2019, 07:04:20 PM
critical support for cpi (m)

(https://i.imgur.com/Ve0guSu.gif)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: nachobro on August 09, 2019, 07:52:10 PM
https://twitter.com/nickmullen/status/1159972587834925057
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: nachobro on August 09, 2019, 08:48:24 PM
https://twitter.com/nickmullen/status/1159973733542629378

:birb
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on August 10, 2019, 12:50:32 AM
https://twitter.com/RJWithOpinions/status/1158263418681528320

This person figured out that capitalism is the current system we have to work with.

 :curious
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Rufus on August 10, 2019, 01:59:10 AM
When did people start to think that everything's for free under socialism?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 10, 2019, 02:01:13 AM
That's easy to say as a German :lol nobody here knows that there were wages in the Soviet Union or what the gosplan accounting system was like and how the banks operated under that.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 10, 2019, 04:53:22 PM
I know exactly how to start.

(https://preview.redd.it/m9s3cddwzlf31.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=6a2f13a541fcb19b954bf873d772c055271ae7eb)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 10, 2019, 05:12:52 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/P26GeF7.png)

I can't believe he deleted this tweet :neogaf
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on August 10, 2019, 05:14:20 PM
https://twitter.com/cordeliers/status/1159054550311100417

This guy is amazing.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: toku on August 11, 2019, 01:30:06 PM
https://twitter.com/AndrewYang/status/1160418730217758720

 :-[
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 11, 2019, 07:18:23 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/lAdoc4X.png)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: toku on August 13, 2019, 03:55:32 PM
fucking miss lil peep  :'( rip king

https://twitter.com/a_nice_frog/status/1157635474212761601

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkhOE9E_2cI

spoiler (click to show/hide)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwzQPh7dW_4
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 15, 2019, 05:33:20 PM
Kirchner won her primary :phil
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 15, 2019, 07:43:53 PM
https://twitter.com/getfiscal/status/1162084476874383362

one of these days someone is going to shoot don :lol
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: nachobro on August 15, 2019, 09:31:28 PM
https://twitter.com/splinter_news/status/1161285305057628160

 :hmm :dead
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 15, 2019, 10:00:33 PM
Ooh - I like.

https://twitter.com/AlexCKaufman/status/1161742328496873473
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on August 16, 2019, 03:34:32 PM
Roman sources heavily patrician or from the Senate party ?
:pika

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Water wet ?
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on August 16, 2019, 04:43:27 PM
I am teaching a class in Roman History  of Law next semester and I looking for some different perspectives. I am reading Zosimus‘ Historia Nea  and other shit of course, but what got my attention is Michael Parenti,‘s The Assassination of Julius Caesar: A People’s History of Ancient Rome .

I ordered it on amazon. :juche

I flipped through this at a bookstore. I doubt its good from an academic perspective, but i like it  as a historiographical experiment. It's basically attempting to be a proletarian/People's History of Rome, which I wish we had more of. The only thing I've seen in a similar space is Settlers, I guess. The writer noted that most of our primary accounts of the time period are from the patrician class or people who benefited directly from upholding that class, so he tried to reverse-engineer a history from that. I'm not sure if the end conclusion is so perfect (Caesar was Good, Actually) and I can't help but read through the lines to see Parenti's underlying animus (Marxism-Leninism was Good Actually) but I enjoyed what I read as a thought experiment.

:trumps

I haven’t gotten around to read it yet, but yeah pretty much every account is biased from a Senate perspective. Emperors who worked against the Senate were presented as history’s greatest monsters. Modern research suggests that Caligula, Domitian and other early emperors were probably better rulers than given credit by the senate because they were populists.(in the good sense)

I fully expect Parenti to take that perspective and run with it.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 18, 2019, 03:23:51 AM
https://twitter.com/Millerheighife/status/1162517808170717185
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on August 18, 2019, 07:09:31 PM
https://twitter.com/livkittykat/status/1162898113725521921
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 19, 2019, 04:35:31 AM
Reading through this three part series on marxism and modernity by j moufawad paul. it's a fun read if you want some philosophical wall o' text.

Enlightenment, science, sovereign power in three parts.

http://www.abstraktdergi.net/radiating-disaster-triumphant-modernity-and-its-discontents/
http://www.abstraktdergi.net/this-ruthless-criticism-of-all-that-exists-marxism-as-science/
http://www.abstraktdergi.net/the-transplanting-of-heaven-to-earth-below/
Quote
Over 200 years after Kant attempted to conceptualize the meaning of Enlightenment some of its worst proponents, who speak its name in order to justify conservative ideology, are still trapped in the 18th century with Kant, acting as if science and human reason haven’t changed since this period. For these thinkers––the Jordan Petersons and Sam Harrises––Enlightenment is a static concept, an especial European event that occurred two and a half centuries ago. This mythologizing of the European Enlightenment is thus entirely immodern.
Leadbelly annihilated
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on August 19, 2019, 02:00:45 PM
https://twitter.com/MitchellCares/status/1163131734713458688

lol
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on August 19, 2019, 08:57:06 PM
Greenwald's disappointing cause he can actually do good work (or support others doing so) but spends so much time and focus in dumb internet beefs. With Khachiyan, Michael Tracey, etc. that's just water finding its level.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on August 19, 2019, 09:15:34 PM
His Twitter beefs are like his entire being now, he doesn't produce much himself for The Intercept anymore.

Is there supposed to be some kind of symbolism behind the masks or is it just a random thing?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 20, 2019, 01:21:45 AM
http://www.abstraktdergi.net/the-transplanting-of-heaven-to-earth-below/
Quote
And yet, post-Marx, radical political philosophy has re-centred the category of sovereign power. We thus find––thanks to Giorgio Agamben’s synthesis of Foucault, Heidegger, and Schmitt––a plethora of contemporary radical thinkers who utilize the category of sovereignty to think politics. Although these theorizations of sovereignty (and connected concepts such as “governmentality” and “biopolitics”) imagine themselves to be radical, what we are in fact witnessing is a return to the ideological constellation of bourgeois Enlightenment thought where pre-materialist categories were preserved so as to legitimate bourgeois power.
:ohhh

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Is it necessary for all philosophy to be expressed in "gotcha"s? :lol
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on August 20, 2019, 01:36:28 AM
https://twitter.com/_waleedshahid/status/1163220028822564864
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on August 20, 2019, 08:43:54 AM
https://twitter.com/isgoodrum/status/1161708111721185281

Resist oppression... NO, NOT LIKE THAT ! :rage
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 20, 2019, 08:42:31 PM
I like josh because rhe idea of an academic maoist is amazing and he pulls no punches. maoists who want to embody the spirit of the GPCR have to ruthlessly question and criticise authority, but.... As an academic he also has authority which manifests in some  :lol :mynicca :derp analysis.


 I'm probably going to read his Continuity and Rupture book soon. Some other articles I like by him, but there's a lot of gold on his blog:

http://moufawad-paul.blogspot.com/2010/11/j-sakais-settlers-meta-review.html?m=1 (#ReadSettlers)
http://moufawad-paul.blogspot.com/2011/05/trotsky-stalin-mimesis.html?m=1
http://moufawad-paul.blogspot.com/2012/06/hegemony-and-class-revolution.html?m=1
I looked it up because he mentioned that book in the second essay and... uh... if the height of marxist development is Shining Path, maybe we shouldn't have been making fun of Jason Unruhe all this time. Brb, signing up for Leading Light.  :doge

Anyway I finally finished that trilogy and it was a great read. I'm glad I'm not the only one who tried getting into postmodern analyses of society and thought "hold up, what am I supposed to do with this?" Especially in the third essay, I did have a bit of trouble getting through the recap of postmodern sovereignty (I have trouble with basically anything postmodern), but then we return to the historical material analysis and suddenly I felt comfortable again, not because I was more familiar with it than the competing theories (I'm equally ignorant of both), but because it's tangible and evidently true. You can practically hold it in your hand and inspect it for yourself. You can immediately compare it to the history you know and the conditions you experience. And most importantly you can explain it to anyone in a fairly simple way (see: Mao's observation about peasantry vs. academics), which is why it's a timeless foundation, practicable, etc. etc.

Relating this to an earlier post, I'm still about halfway through Empire (I took a break to read Piketty's joint), and I'm coming across some of the same problems. [there is a good summary here (http://culturalstudiesnow.blogspot.com/2017/03/empire-hardt-and-negri-summary.html).] Yeah, I see the theory they're building, I'm getting it, but it's not what I SEE with my own eyes in the real world, and that shows how quickly it aged (it was written in the late 90s, after the fall of the USSR and before the rise of a competing pole). I don't see a single Empire, capital E, with its organs spread across the globe, eradicating borders and identities, the permanent overthrow of imperial relations, and most controversially an inevitable "democratic insurgency" of its proletarian subjects. I still see a center and a periphery, I see Capital's position strengthening, I see multiple poles arising as the quest to dominate strategic resources and markets heats up again just like it did over a hundred years ago, I still see national rivalry; in short I see what Harry Magdoff laid out 70 years ago as late stage imperialism.

so question the marxists at your own risk :hmph and subscribe to monthly review
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 20, 2019, 09:30:07 PM
I think moists undersell how hard it is just to keep a socialist state together and you're seeing that right now in China with a 3 way pull in the CCP between maoists, nationalists and libs. The same shit happened in the USSR.
Once China experiences its first huge crisis during the extent of its capitalist development strategy and those 26 million farmers and fishers in the CCP start voting out the libs... :lawd that's gonna be crazy to watch
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Himu on August 21, 2019, 02:47:26 PM
I'm on the verge of going socialist again with this Amazon fire shit. I google amazon and filter by news and just get a bunch of amazon.com crap. What a bunch of absolute fuck. These goddamn Brazilians.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 21, 2019, 05:55:34 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/gS8LYR9.png)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Joe Molotov on August 21, 2019, 08:08:39 PM
Fred Flintstone was a wage cuck
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on August 21, 2019, 08:53:15 PM
Fred Flintstone was a wage giant dad
???
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on August 21, 2019, 10:16:55 PM
Fred Flintstone was a wage giant dad
???

The Flintstones were pro cucking.  :doge

(https://miro.medium.com/max/790/1*DdCVZj-V7BFzNymqhnUImg.jpeg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Oblivion on August 21, 2019, 10:37:37 PM
:beli :dead

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1163112167421468673

maybe people should only listen to greenwald on brazil related issues and nothing else
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 22, 2019, 04:03:40 AM
https://twitter.com/sunraysunray/status/1161625637645406208

presented without comment
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 22, 2019, 09:59:31 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/aPLjmq9.png)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on August 22, 2019, 10:08:43 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/how-k-pop-is-tempting-young-north-koreans-to-cross-the-line/2019/08/19/0f984654-839f-11e9-b585-e36b16a531aa_story.html
Quote
As a little girl, Ryu Hee-Jin was brought up to perform patriotic songs praising the iron will, courage and compassion of North Korea’s leader at the time, Kim Jong Il.

Then she heard American and South Korean pop music.

“When you listen to North Korean music, you have no emotions,” she said. “But when you listen to American or South Korean music, it literally gives you the chills. The lyrics are so fresh, so relatable. When kids listen to this music, their facial expressions just change.”
Quote
Now, there is evidence that South Korean K-pop is playing a similar role in subtly undermining the propaganda of the North Korean regime, with rising numbers of defectors citing music as one factor in their disillusionment with their government, according to Lee Kwang-Baek, president of South Korea’s Unification Media Group (UMG).

The trend, fueled by growing cellphone ownership in North Korea and the country’s still buoyant border trade with China, has provoked a new clampdown by Pyongyang in the past year, according to reports on Daily NK, a defector-led news service with extensive links in the North. That followed Kim Jong Un’s 2018 vow to “crush bourgeois reactionary culture.”

A survey of 200 recent defectors by UMG released in June found that more than 90 percent had watched foreign movies, TV and music in North Korea; three-quarters knew of someone who had been punished as a result; and more than 70 percent said it had become more dangerous to access foreign media since Kim Jong Un took power at the end of 2011.

Ryu is one of many defectors who say K-pop and Western popular music opened their eyes, convincing them that North Korea was not the paradise it was made out to be and that their best prospects lay abroad.

In her bedroom in Pyongyang, the North Korean capital, Ryu would sometimes stay up all night watching a single music video on repeat — surreptitiously, for fear of the police.

“We were always taught that Americans were wolves and South Koreans were their puppets,” she said, “but when you listen to their art, you’ve just got to acknowledge them.”

She remembers Celine Dion, the British violinist “with the crazy hair,” Nigel Kennedy, and the Irish boy band Westlife, as well as K-pop bands TVXQ, Girls’ Generation and T-Ara.

Born into a musical family, Ryu played the gayageum, a traditional Korean string instrument similar to a zither, at an arts school in Pyongyang. A spell in the national synchronized swimming team was followed by a job as a waitress in southern Europe. There, she spent evenings in nightclubs, dancing “Gangnam Style” with co-workers and friends from South Korea. In 2015, at the age of 23, she defected to the South.
Quote
The risks for viewers are real, with a special unit of the police and security services known as Group 109 in charge of the renewed crackdown. Even minors who are caught can face six months to a year of ideological training in a reeducation camp — unless their parents can bribe their way out — while adults can face a lifetime of hard labor or, for sensitive material, even execution.

It’s not just the melodies and lyrics that prove catchy, it’s also the performers’ clothes and hairstyles.

“The kind of thing I wanted to do was dye my hair and wear miniskirts and jeans,” said Kang Na-ra, 22. “Once I wore jeans to the market and I was told I had to take them off. They were burned in front of my eyes.”

Kang, who had been a singer at an arts high school in Pyongyang, defected in 2014, so “I could express myself freely.” She tried to make it in K-pop but says the singing styles are too different. Now, she has a successful career as a TV personality and an actress, mainly portraying North Koreans in South Korean films and dramas.

Han Song-ee was just 10 years old when she first saw a video of Baby V.O.X performing in a “Unification Concert” in Pyongyang in 2003, to an audience of comically impassive North Korean bigwigs. “At first it was so shocking and weird to see these ‘capitalist vandals,’ but as I listened to their music, I realized it was pretty catchy,” she said.

Soon, she was hooked. Her father became angry with her mother for copying the band’s hairstyle. Later, Han and her friends began to wear the colorful hot pants popularized by South Korea’s Girls’ Generation — but only in their neighborhood, not the city center.

Han defected in 2013 and is now a well-known vlogger in Seoul, where she also appears on radio and television. She says she dreams of North Koreans being able to watch her broadcasts, and of her parents tuning in, “so they can see how free I am.”
Quote
Last year, Kim attended a South Korean musical performance in Pyongyang that featured older music divas, male rock musicians and young K-pop acts, including a trendy girl band called Red Velvet. The concert was broadcast in its entirety in the South but only in snippets on news programs in the North.

One woman in her late 20s, who escaped North Korea last year, said video of the concert was shared behind closed doors in her hometown near the Chinese border.

She spoke on the condition of anonymity because of safety concerns.

“Kim Jong Un apparently clapped and cheered at the performance, but we could only watch smuggled footage of it in hiding because consuming South Korean music was still a crime that could land us in prison,” she said.

After she defected, Ryu said, she learned from a TV documentary that Kim Jong Il, the father of the country’s current leader, was a fan of South Korean cinema and TV shows.

“I was so, so angry,” she said. “We would literally cry when we sang about the hardships of Kim Jong Il’s life. I never imagined he was watching South Korean TV.”

These days, Ryu is studying for a business degree but still dreams of breaking into K-pop or — better yet — Hollywood.

“It’s so incredible how far I have come,” she said. “South Korean music really played a central role in guiding me through this journey.”

The Conquerors of Juche at work:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7mPqycQ0tQ
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on August 22, 2019, 10:13:36 PM
geegee geegeee geegee geegeee geegee geegeee geegee geegeee geegee geegeee geegee geegeee
geegee geegeee geegee geegeee geegee Kim is a false god geegeee geegee geegeee geegee geegeee
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on August 22, 2019, 10:38:56 PM
https://twitter.com/nick_kapur/status/1164233656799506433

https://twitter.com/nick_kapur/status/1164234617861398534

spoiler (click to show/hide)
https://twitter.com/nick_kapur/status/1164244110301192192

https://twitter.com/nick_kapur/status/1164244793892966401

https://twitter.com/nick_kapur/status/1164247060281004033

https://twitter.com/nick_kapur/status/1164251782635249664
[close]
https://twitter.com/nick_kapur/status/1164259400384679936

edit: posted by Esch and critiqued by Vom in latestagecapitalism (http://www.thebore.com/forum/index.php?topic=44878.msg2688584#msg2688584), thought to check there after I posted, I am truly sorry :-*
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 22, 2019, 11:30:46 PM
https://opportunity.businessroundtable.org/ourcommitment/

:rofl
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on August 22, 2019, 11:34:45 PM
no no no no go back to the old one it was fine
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 23, 2019, 06:54:01 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/a47ZcJ5.jpg)

I think I actually started something by accident  :lol
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on August 23, 2019, 06:58:56 PM
Damn you benji I was about to roast you with that link !
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on August 24, 2019, 12:17:00 AM
https://twitter.com/IChotiner/status/1164899264213835777

https://twitter.com/n_r_g/status/1164928619841544192
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 25, 2019, 09:45:04 PM
I used to think that international conglomerates involved in commodity production at least could justify their markup and overseas dominion because they oversaw the major innovations in supply chain logistics that occurred over the past ~50 years. But there is more to this story than I knew. It turns out that these companies offset the costs of this on-demand production onto their suppliers (https://mronline.org/2019/08/21/outsourcing-exploitation-global-labor-value-chains/). What I learned in school as the miracle of just-in-time manufacturing is really a magic trick that takes the costs of overproduction and forces the supplier to deal with it instead, in the form of depressed wages, deteriorated working conditions, and outright bankruptcies. The shift from totally integrated vertical production to a master-servant subcontracting in the producing countries at first looks like it's a gain for the country (as a local company, it hypothetically keeps the profit of its production within the state that produced it) but actually is a poor bargain designed to extract more rent for the multinational. Truly nefarious arrangement.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on August 26, 2019, 02:55:07 AM
there's a derrida team at google  :dead

https://twitter.com/tiff_fitzhenry/status/1165443115207057408?s=11 (https://twitter.com/tiff_fitzhenry/status/1165443115207057408?s=11)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Rufus on August 26, 2019, 05:21:00 AM
https://twitter.com/XluvnuX/status/1165499216426352640

https://twitter.com/iknowandcantslp/status/1165604422757625861

 :brain :brain
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on August 26, 2019, 09:40:54 AM
https://twitter.com/Tiff_FitzHenry/status/1165443144332263424 (https://twitter.com/Tiff_FitzHenry/status/1165443144332263424)

 :brain :brain :dead :dead
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 26, 2019, 10:48:56 PM
a whole episode on an infantile disorder, pass :yuck

spoiler (click to show/hide)
I looked into mr. pancake after you told Cindi to (too bad that one didn't work out  :doge). Looking forward to this  :pimp
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 27, 2019, 06:43:01 AM
"A lot of people didn't like Trotsky because he was so smug and aloof."
"A long Trotskyist tradition."
:dead

Sounds like the type of shit you'd be into, stost.
I thought this was about the episode, turns out you meant Mattick. :whoo This stuff is such a rabbit hole. Now I want to read the One Dimensional Man, too. You're right, the reading list truly never gets any smaller.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Joe Molotov on August 28, 2019, 04:32:00 PM
https://twitter.com/thucydiplease/status/1166517935877132288
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on August 28, 2019, 04:36:20 PM
https://twitter.com/thucydiplease/status/1166517935877132288

I lived under socialism and there was never enough of anything, but:

Getting care packages from the capitalists west was a good way to make your friends jealous. I got a c 64 and was the most popular kid in town. :smug

It was used and all the games were pirated. I just lied about it being brand new. :ego
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on August 28, 2019, 04:39:01 PM
https://twitter.com/STaylorRayburn/status/1166347828152680449
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on August 28, 2019, 05:15:05 PM
https://twitter.com/buckligerzwerg/status/1166726599171084288

Reminds me of a girl I knew in college who described her brand of feminism as doing whatever was best for her
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on August 28, 2019, 05:52:04 PM
I read parts of the Parenti book btw.
It‘s basically him presenting the weakness of biased Senate accounts and spending too much time on the historiography. I get that the audience he writes for aren’t necessarily history scholars, but that part drags on for far too long. He is just stating the obvious most of the time and basically regurgitates stuff ‚‘modern’ research has known for over 50 years.A better writer could have presented his thesis in 10 pages instead of like 70.

Brevitas sapientiae anima est :snob
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 29, 2019, 03:41:27 AM
https://twitter.com/Speediest_Sloth/status/1166914363669790726
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 29, 2019, 04:23:28 AM
https://twitter.com/buckligerzwerg/status/1166726599171084288
(https://i.imgur.com/WTSNEYF.png?1)

support socialism, buy Chinese! :salute
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on August 29, 2019, 05:54:20 AM
Reading through this three part series on marxism and modernity by j moufawad paul. it's a fun read if you want some philosophical wall o' text.

Enlightenment, science, sovereign power in three parts.

http://www.abstraktdergi.net/radiating-disaster-triumphant-modernity-and-its-discontents/
http://www.abstraktdergi.net/this-ruthless-criticism-of-all-that-exists-marxism-as-science/
http://www.abstraktdergi.net/the-transplanting-of-heaven-to-earth-below/

thanks for sharing, gonna start reading these over lunch but shosta, lol @ thinking sam harris has seriously read and engaged with kant
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on August 31, 2019, 05:23:00 PM
https://twitter.com/broderick/status/1167864720826621952
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on August 31, 2019, 05:30:22 PM
https://twitter.com/RealScottRitter/status/1165231510808596480
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on August 31, 2019, 11:58:18 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/PKSGGF2.png)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Joe Molotov on September 01, 2019, 01:40:30 AM
How long did it take you decide whether to post that in the real politics thread, the joke politics thread, or the meme thread?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on September 01, 2019, 01:48:55 AM
Even on a skylake i7 regression models basically take like half a second.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on September 01, 2019, 03:49:40 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/PKSGGF2.png)

The Turtle AchipelaGOP.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on September 01, 2019, 10:50:38 AM
from a 2007 NYT Magazine article on Ron Paul's campaign:
Quote
Victor Carey, a 45-year-old, muscular, mustachioed self-described “patriot” who wears a black baseball cap with a skull and crossbones on it, drove up from Sykesville, Md., to show his support for Paul. He laid out some of his concerns. “The people who own the Federal Reserve own the oil companies, they own the mass media, they own the International Monetary Fund, the World Bank, they’re part of the Bilderbergers, and unfortunately their spiritual practices are very wicked and diabolical as well,” Carey said. “They go to a place out in California known as the Bohemian Grove, and there’s been footage obtained by infiltration of what their practices are. And they do mock human sacrifices to an owl-god called Moloch. This is true. Go research it yourself.”

Two grandmothers from North Carolina who painted a Winnebago red, white and blue were traveling around the country, stumping for Ron Paul, defending the Constitution and warning about the new “North American Union.” Asked whether this is something that would arise out of Nafta, Betty Smith of Chapel Hill, N.C., replied: “It’s already arisen. They’re building the highway. Guess what! The Spanish company building the highway — they’re gonna get the tolls. Giuliani’s law firm represents that Spanish company. Giuliani’s been anointed a knight by the Queen. Guess what! Read the Constitution. That’s not allowed!”
:american
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on September 01, 2019, 11:34:15 AM
Quote
"(U)nfortunately their spiritual practices are very wicked and diabolical as well,” Carey said. “They go to a place out in California known as the Bohemian Grove, and there’s been footage obtained by infiltration of what their practices are. And they do mock human sacrifices to an owl-god called Moloch. This is true. Go research it yourself.”

(https://i.imgur.com/5mR8iyD.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on September 02, 2019, 03:09:49 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDbom9xW4AoGVfd?format=jpg&name=medium)

Happy Labor Day everyone!

(https://i.imgur.com/Ve0guSu.gif)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on September 02, 2019, 11:26:36 AM
never heard of quadratic voting before! https://ethresear.ch/t/quadratic-voting-with-sortition/6065
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on September 04, 2019, 10:08:09 PM
http://ppesydney.net/neoliberalism-and-the-strange-non-death-of-planning/ (http://ppesydney.net/neoliberalism-and-the-strange-non-death-of-planning/)

Interesting blog post about neoliberalism and economic planning (with an appearance by the subject of the new old ideology thread).
Ends with a To Be Continued before it offers concrete examples of modern managerial planning :beli

http://ppesydney.net/planning-in-the-name-of-the-market-neoliberalism-and-managerial-governance/ (http://ppesydney.net/planning-in-the-name-of-the-market-neoliberalism-and-managerial-governance/)

spoiler (click to show/hide)
still doesn't give what you were asking for tho
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on September 05, 2019, 12:26:41 AM
Christopher Hitchens repeatedly cited Saddam's draining of the Iraqi marshlands as a point in favor of the Iraq war, both before and after the invasion.

I don't think it convinced anyone or was even really intended to. It was more a troll for conservative audiences: "these libs say they care about the environment, but..."
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on September 05, 2019, 01:30:13 AM
Christopher Hitchens repeatedly cited Saddam's draining of the Iraqi marshlands as a point in favor of the Iraq war, both before and after the invasion.

I don't think it convinced anyone or was even really intended to. It was more a troll for conservative audiences: "these libs say they care about the environment, but..."
I won't speak to Hitchens specifically but I presume that most mentions of that was related to the ethnic cleansing of the Marsh Arabs that went along with it
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on September 05, 2019, 01:55:47 AM
Hitchens specifically cited it as an ecological issue a few times pre-war. I remember him on a show with a liberal audience prefacing it with "of course I'm not saying this just to pander to your listeners' concern for the environment, but..." or some such.

He's the only one I ever remember bringing it up. The Marsh Arabs weren't held up in the same was as the Kurds, even on a smaller scale.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on September 05, 2019, 02:17:47 AM
The Marsh Arabs were the ones who Saddam slaughtered most extensively after the Gulf War for their uprising, so I remember them being brought up a few times as an example of why we had to finish it this time. Or go back for abandoning them after telling them to rise up, etc.

All the arguments around Iraq were quite strange I thought in terms of how it often seemed inverse to the importance/relevance of the issue, WMD being kinda the ur-example.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on September 05, 2019, 02:33:30 AM
Either Weekly Standard or National Review (maybe both) did a "Suddenly We Remember That We've Always Cared About The Marsh Arabs" piece in the run-up, but they never became a regular cause celebre. Like if you were pro war in 2003 you'd absolutely learn that part of it was supporting the Kurds but you probably wouldn't adopt the Marsh Arabs the same way. Though I guess in "Saddam massacred his own people!" they were the unspecified object of the sentence. Actually reminds me that most of the pro war rhetoric ignored the cultural schisms and was just about The People Of Iraq who all hated Saddam.

They'd probably have done better if they'd had any sort of political organization or ostensible leaders who could talk to the western press like Chalabi and the other exiles.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on September 05, 2019, 02:36:34 AM
Walking down memory lane is a good reminder of how truly deranged the Bush years were and how Trump being president is dumb in a somewhat different way but not in a much greater magnitude.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on September 05, 2019, 02:53:54 AM
That's sorta what I meant with my Trump "is the greatest non-interventionist president of all time" statement that everyone recognized as pure genius analysis, he doesn't have the patience or the coalition building ability to somehow force the entire government, including winning over Democrats in Congress and people inside his administration like Colin Powell, into a two year march to a predetermined conclusion. Plus I personally think, despite his public persona, he has far more of a dominant CYA desire over what Bush called being "the decider" towards any risks.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on September 05, 2019, 12:11:25 PM
That's sorta what I meant with my Trump "is the greatest non-interventionist president of all time" statement

More specifically you said he "was right about Iraq" which is just straight up giving credence to one of his more obvious and well-documented lies.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on September 05, 2019, 01:32:53 PM
He got Iraq "right" simply because he was posturing
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on September 05, 2019, 01:54:34 PM
He did not oppose it at the time.

Surely I don't need to explain this to you.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on September 09, 2019, 12:57:37 AM
https://twitter.com/HenryKrinkIe/status/1170191030517489664
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on September 10, 2019, 10:36:30 AM
https://twitter.com/digitalboyfrnd/status/1170968034854359040

 :piss :supergay :piss2
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on September 10, 2019, 05:31:05 PM
https://twitter.com/femceldreamgirl/status/1170831842402078721

what is going on with twitter
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on September 10, 2019, 11:02:14 PM
https://twitter.com/AllisonJRiggs/status/1171546487085395968
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: nachobro on September 11, 2019, 08:43:31 AM
https://twitter.com/GarbageApe/status/1171457462676803585
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on September 11, 2019, 09:38:39 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/aIJ9amt.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on September 11, 2019, 08:32:43 PM
https://twitter.com/AllisonJRiggs/status/1171546487085395968
Without looking into it, on its face, this is actually superior to most "independent" redistricting methods. Most maps are corrupted by where the lines are begun to be drawn, it's the easiest way to draw favorable partisan maps.

In theory the best way to draw a map is to randomly select start points along a border and then draw districts in which no lines intersect another. It's usually shown that inputting both population data and state-level internal borders like counties, will automatically draw "ideal" districts following this. The problem of course is that by law, as noted in this tweet, states aren't allowed to draw districts like this. Districts are basically legally required to be gerrymandered.

A lot of states that run into these problems are because the mandate for minority-majority districts creates small single Democrat districts and larger multiple Republican districts inherently as long as partisan voting keeps patterns. If you split the population of a city to create say, two more evenly weighted partisan districts you can trigger the Voting Rights Act. If you don't split the population of a city leaving you with the above you're often good according to the courts.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on September 11, 2019, 10:14:59 PM
A lot of states that run into these problems are because the mandate for minority-majority districts creates small single Democrat districts and larger multiple Republican districts inherently as long as partisan voting keeps patterns. If you split the population of a city to create say, two more evenly weighted partisan districts you can trigger the Voting Rights Act. If you don't split the population of a city leaving you with the above you're often good according to the courts.

yeah probably that's what happened in north carolina they were just trying their best
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on September 11, 2019, 10:19:07 PM
I always assume that actors in the government are trying their best.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Baiano19 on September 11, 2019, 10:58:56 PM
thread

https://twitter.com/ishaantharoor/status/1171859029225869313


https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1171859029225869313.html

Quote
Hard right Brazilian Foreign Minister Ernesto Araujo, who believes climate change is a Marxist conspiracy, is speaking at @heritage right now. Currently complaining about left "infiltration" in the system.
mentions Araujo says @jairbolsonaro is creating "a liberal-conservative amalgam" on top of "nationhood, family, traditional ties" and opposed to "globalism."
mentions This is a fascinatingly ideological speech for a foreign minister abroad (and somewhat incoherent). "Our civilization is losing its symbols," he says. Now is talking about theories of "hegemony" and lecturing about Rosa Luxembourg and "symbolic confiscation."
mentions Straight up projection here: Re the left, "what they're criticizing is what they're preaching."
mentions I've never heard Araujo speak before and it's striking how rambling and incoherent his remarks are. Now says something about 21st century socialism being Gramsci meeting the drug cartels. Now is namedropping Marcuse and the whole Frankfurt school. Now is talking abt Foucault.
mentions This is amazing. Unclear if he's ever read critical/neo-Marxist theory beyond Wikipedia entries, but he's asking a lot of an audience at the Heritage Foundation to know what he's talking about. Okay, now to the meat of his views:
Globalism is three parts: Climate change ideology, hatred of one's own and another I missed, sorry.
"The whole point of climatism is to end normal, democratic debate," says Araujo, and now lumps his people alongside Americans, Brexiteers and says the "system" of climate change activists (I guess) want to end freedom of speech.
"Climate became a debate shutter," says Brazil's foreign minister, complaining about the uproar over the Amazon. Says Trump and Bolsonaro "are the main ones fighting the system," "outside of the globalist pact."
The speech by the Brazilian foreign minister at @heritage could have been delivered by a US campus conservative as a PragerU, complaining about the media, globalist system, etc. It's been an endless screed of victimhood from someone in power.
mentions Yep, Araujo now complaining about the evil left wanting to take red meat away from us.
mentions "Social justice" is only "a pretext for dictatorship," says Araujo. Now they want to do the same with climate change, he adds. "Brazil is being Otherized." He's firing shots across the bow ahead of a politically fraught week at the UN later this month.
mentions Concluding statement: "The Amazon is ground zero in the fight against globalism and the recovery of human dignity [or was it soul?]."
mentions There's a fascinating disconnect between US right and whatever it is Araujo represents: The latter truly sees his politics as a reaction to a left-wing orthodoxy (hence all the snarling at Lacan, Lukacs, and all the other leftist intellectuals he name-checked.)
mentions Beyond its moping about campus leftists, the American right would never care about these people or engage their ideas (however absurdly) in a foreign policy speech. Araujo offered a distinction between Leninism and Stalinism, as if anyone in @heritage gives a damn.

mentions When I interviewed Brazilian VP @GeneralMourao earlier this year, he seemed pretty exasperated with Araujo. washingtonpost.com/world/2019/04/…
mentions Bem-vindos, meus novos seguidores brasileiros. Assine aqui a minha newsletter :)

Apoio o Bolsonaro, mas o Ernesto Araújo é louco.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on September 12, 2019, 12:30:44 AM
the tankies have their own jacobin http://homintern.soy/ (http://homintern.soy/). Only read a couple articles but like it so far.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on September 12, 2019, 10:25:32 AM
https://arcdigital.media/sam-harris-has-a-problem-ad5debba9d62 (https://arcdigital.media/sam-harris-has-a-problem-ad5debba9d62)

Quote
Like most episodes of Making Sense, this one consists mostly of Harris rehashing the myriad ways he feels he has been mistreated or misunderstood by progressives. As any consistent Harris listener can attest, the man sustains an immense amount of self-righteous anger over this. The problem is the measure of anger outpaces his understanding of the topics he’s angry about.
Like his late friend Christopher Hitchens, Harris is a gifted rhetorician who possesses the preternatural ability to speak not only in complete sentences but complete paragraphs. This talent can be mesmerizing, but it masks something The Hitch never had to hide and of which the Diamond episode is a prime example: a general hollowness of mind reinforced by a stunning lack of intellectual rigor and curiosity.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on September 12, 2019, 10:30:54 AM
https://twitter.com/Algemeiner/status/1171881249755029505

 :doge
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Joe Molotov on September 12, 2019, 10:49:32 AM
I always assume that actors in the government are trying their best.

Trusting actors in the government is what gave us Bedtime for Bonzo. :yuck
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on September 12, 2019, 12:31:28 PM
https://twitter.com/kg_ubu/status/1171778308729638912

https://twitter.com/ThomasIsOnline/status/1171931592354390017

 :whatisthis
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: nachobro on September 12, 2019, 03:08:30 PM
how many of those emails were to epstein :hmm
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on September 12, 2019, 04:52:29 PM
https://twitter.com/BrandyLJensen/status/1172195630359437312
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on September 12, 2019, 11:20:08 PM
https://twitter.com/chunkymark/status/1172076394282725376
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on September 13, 2019, 12:07:25 AM
That superhero article is horrible. It's entirely about the action schlock Nolan Batman films. It never had the chance to tackle the much more cerebral and philosophical works of Zach Snyder.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also the guy knows basically nothing about the actual history of comics, yet writes as if he does. Strange. :teehee
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on September 13, 2019, 10:42:03 PM
 
Quote
People who apply a classical framework think having a capitalist society that arose from feudal society is the sole criterion to measure capitalism. But the ancestry of capitalists within a socialist society—a society which is still in the process of becoming capitalist—is very different. That’s why it looks different. Let me explain how people with a metaphysical way of looking at things approach this question. If you look at maggots and earthworms, they all seemingly belong to the same non-flying species. And flies and hummingbirds both seemingly belong to the flying species. Here, we’re just looking at whether they’re able to fly or not. Yes, flying is a big difference but maggot and fly are the same species. So, you cannot just say: “Oh! Flies—or capitalists—came from the feudal society. But look at maggots, they cannot even fly. How come they can be capitalists?” This is ridiculous! If you wait, maggots will, of course, become flies. So, capitalists in socialist society are in the “maggot stage.” They constitute the nucleus of the capitalist class in the “fly stage.”

 :ohhh
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on September 14, 2019, 01:22:51 AM
https://twitter.com/MorningBluberry/status/1172731147178188800
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on September 14, 2019, 12:34:46 PM
https://twitter.com/LoveCass_/status/1172549315853717505

 :ltg
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on September 14, 2019, 01:08:07 PM
https://youtu.be/i580H5Q_fZ4?t=9586

Sam Seder recommends Howard Zinn's A People History of the United States instead of Settlers as a recommended book to learn more about the left and socialism. Shosta blasted.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on September 14, 2019, 02:51:13 PM
https://twitter.com/OsitaNwanevu/status/1171793575849398272

Read this and it really goes nowhere. Trump is vulgar (obv), except when he talks about America (not really), and the key to beating him is to go after America or something.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Rufus on September 14, 2019, 03:21:12 PM
Read this and it really goes nowhere. Trump is vulgar (obv), except when he talks about America (not really), and the key to beating him is to go after America or something.
Thanks. I feel vindicated in not bothering to track it down. :doge
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on September 14, 2019, 06:32:00 PM
I assume Zizeks been exiled to the Spectator because of all the shit idpol takes

He cites Angela Nagle in the second paragraph, so it checks out.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Oblivion on September 14, 2019, 06:57:55 PM
it was only a matter of time, sadly
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Nintex on September 14, 2019, 07:08:19 PM
https://twitter.com/GarbageApe/status/1171457462676803585
Stephen decided to go for the easy money. I'm sad he sold out but I can hardly blame him.
The Comedy Central train wasn't going to last with Jon Stewart heading towards retirement and he knew it.
He also knew that the Colbert character that he played had an expiration date so he needed to be 'himself' again.

We did lose a great comedian to some shitty writers though. Once in a while he does something not terrible,
like his parody on Alex Jones which was pretty much the best parody of Alex Jones anyone has done.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on September 14, 2019, 07:21:15 PM
I liked it :lol

Quote
His shameless obscenities serve as signs of solidarity with so-called ordinary people (‘you see, I am the same as you, we are all red under our skin’), and this solidarity also signals the point at which Trump’s obscenity reaches its limit. Trump is not totally obscene: when he talks about the greatness of America, when he dismisses his opponents as enemies of the people, et cetera, he intends to be taken seriously, and his obscenities are meant to precisely emphasize by contrast the level at which he is serious: they are meant to function as an obscene display of his belief in the greatness of America.
Quote
Public obscenity that proliferates today constitutes a third domain between the private and the public space: the private space elevated into the public sphere. It seems to be the form that fits best our immersion into cyberspace, our participation in all possible forums; Twitter, Instagram, Facebook. No wonder, then, that Trump makes most of his decisions public through Twitter. However, we don’t get here the ‘real Trump’: the domain of public obscenities is not that of sharing intimate experiences, it is a public domain full of lies, hypocrisies and pure malevolence, a domain in which we engage in a way similar to that of wearing a disgusting mask.

And he doesn't discuss "idpol" here, that comment was about the superficiality of a wide swath of liberal protestation. Watch MSNBC, where the soup du jour is always some Republican who finds Trump detestable, and you will know what I mean.

It's the same as most of Zizek's stuff. Always very fun to read and interesting, but not usually useful or practicable. Cultural commentary :rejoice
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on September 14, 2019, 07:33:29 PM
I assume Zizeks been exiled to the Spectator because of all the shit idpol takes
"They are telling me the refugees are the new proletariat. No... no! That is wrong!"
Why do all white people have to be racist deep down :rkelly
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on September 14, 2019, 07:36:13 PM
https://twitter.com/wyattreed13/status/1172926681146953733
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on September 15, 2019, 02:29:45 AM
I assume Zizeks been exiled to the Spectator because of all the shit idpol takes
he kinda said nothing, only interesting part to me was:
Quote
When he was elected president, I was asked by a couple of publishers to write a book which would submit the Trump phenomenon to a psychoanalytic critics, and my answer was that we do not need psychoanalysis to explore the ‘pathology’ of his success – the only thing to psychoanalyze is the irrational stupidity of the left-liberal reactions to it, the stupidity which makes it more and more probable that Trump will be re-elected. To use what is perhaps the lowest point of Trump’s vulgarities, the left has not yet learned how to grab him by the pussy.

interesting because he puts pathology in air-quotes, suggesting that his election was not as abnormal as everyone thinks and probably systemic, and that the left needs to figure out its own failings that created the space to let him become president (although i'm not sure wtf he means at the end of the paragraph)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on September 15, 2019, 08:16:01 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/BDZkYzc.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on September 16, 2019, 03:42:58 AM
50,000 striking GM workers :phil
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on September 17, 2019, 02:37:13 PM
https://twitter.com/PedanticRomantc/status/1172982164964528129 (https://twitter.com/PedanticRomantc/status/1172982164964528129)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on September 17, 2019, 08:31:21 PM
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/scaachikoul/lauren-duca-book-teen-vogue-how-to-start-a-revolution
Quote
When I first asked to profile her in advance of her new book, How to Start a Revolution: Young People and the Future of American Politics, I did it over Twitter DM. She agreed, but seemed to get anxious as we got closer to settling on a meeting time. “Hold on lol,” she wrote. “Are you not following me? Feels like that would be helpful for a profile. And, not gonna lie, that makes me a bit apprehensive!”

When we eventually met in person in mid-August, she clarified the source of her anxiety a bit more. “I assumed it meant you were one of my haters,” she said. “There’s a level of reasonable paranoia. It’s weird being public-facing. It’s weird to interact with an idea of you.”
Quote
Her rise coincided with Teen Vogue’s own political awakening as a leader in the anti-Trump resistance. Suddenly the country realized that Teen Vogue wasn’t just focused on makeup and fashion; it was giving young people a place to read about social justice, politics, inequality, and the power of activism.
Quote
Whatever the general public might think of Duca’s personal politics, her book, How to Start a Revolution, is set to be published on Sept. 24. The 178-page manifesto has the lofty goal of laying “the groundwork for a re-democratizing moment as it might be built out of the untapped potential of young people,” according to the book jacket. It’s been blurbed by heavy hitters, including Rather, Janet Mock, and Ariel Levy, the latter calling Duca “the millennial feminist warrior queen of social media.”

Duca also spent this past summer teaching “The Feminist Journalist,” a six-week New York University journalism course for both high school and college students. After Duca agreed to our interview, she also acquiesced to letting me sit in on the final day of the class. She asked her students to come prepared with questions for her for what would be an AMA-style session in Washington Square Park. Her students sat in a circle around her in the wet grass. It was, I imagine, exactly what Tucker Carlson would envision a liberal journalism class might be: a bunch of kids from varied backgrounds, ethnicities, orientations, and gender identities, who could each afford a $6,500 class, wearing T-shirts that said “GenderQueer” or “Kill Patriarchy.”

In the park, Duca praised her students for their ideas and pitches: “You so totally learned what I was trying to teach you.” Nearly four weeks after the course ended, however, her students sent a collective formal complaint to the heads of the NYU journalism school about Duca’s conduct. “We are disappointed at the department and NYU for hiring a professor with more interest in promoting her book than teaching a group of students eager to learn,” they wrote. In the days after the course ended, several of the students also reached out to me to share more of their concerns. “Her ability to exploit the movement is really frustrating,” one former student said.
Quote
At Teen Vogue, Duca was brought on to work the weekend shifts by Phillip Picardi, then the magazine’s online editor. “She demonstrated a range of coverage: She could write things from a perspective that would bring in a social or cultural commentary that I felt was important to add to Teen Vogue,” he told me. “It also helped that I found her, and still do find her, extremely funny.”

Together, Picardi and Duca had big plans to make TeenVogue.com more than just a fashion and lifestyle site by bringing politics to the forefront of its coverage. Teen Vogue Editor-in-Chief Elaine Welteroth was doing something similar at the time for the print side. This was in the — comparatively — halcyon days of 2016 and 2017, when people on the left were still struggling to figure out what to do. Seemingly every weekend there was a march — the Women’s March, A Day Without Immigrants, A Day Without Women — even the Juggalos came out for their own.

...

Duca’s piece wasn’t the only or the best example of Teen Vogue’s foray into politics, but it did hit the hardest. “The gaslighting piece was able to sum up a lot,” Picardi said. “It created a consciousness around misinformation and abuse of power that I think was extremely sharp and really cut through the noise. Obviously the numbers and Lauren’s trajectory speaks to its impact wholeheartedly.”
Quote
Duca’s book certainly speaks to its readers in very simple terms — it defines “democracy” and “oligarchy” and “gaslighting,” terms that you might be familiar with if you’ve ever taken a civics class or two. But for Duca’s audience, whom she considers to be between 14 and 24, it’s a perfectly reasonable and non-condescending education; how else are you going to get young people to care about politics if you don’t explain it to them? “I think a lot of political writing is written from this high-perch, omniscient view that it's just not accessible, and it’s disempowering at times,” Duca told me. “I think I tend to forget how much I have the IV plugged in and how high my knowledge level is.”
Quote
The book has some confusing factual errors, too. In one chapter, Duca uses the infamous 1964 murder of Kitty Genovese as a case study for the bystander effect, when in fact that specific myth around Genovese’s murder had long been debunked. (Though she uses this comparison, she also concedes on the next page that the events are disputed.) Finished copies of the first hardcover printing also come with this erratum slipped in: “On page 29, reporter David Folkenflik is incorrectly identified as a media consultant for the NRA. Mr. Folkenflik works at National Public Radio, where he is a media correspondent.” The cover itself — George Washington in pop art makeup — has also been readily mocked.

Privilege comes up often when criticizing Duca, and her book does her no favors on this front. Like the work of a lot of white women in political writing, the book only fleetingly examines the intersection of race when she talks about political engagement. “Before the 2016 election, I only ever understood politics as a spectator sport,” she writes early in the book. “Once upon a time it was possible to say ‘I don’t like politics’ as if expressing a distaste for olives.” Which of course makes you ask: Who exactly has been so lucky to spend their entire pre-2016 life thinking this?

The real purpose of the book — as stated by Duca in our interview — is to help galvanize young people to get involved in politics and help them be informed. “Well, friends, being a good citizen is as easy as three simple steps,” she writes in the conclusion. Her steps include “learn — empower yourself with information,” “decide — form a political opinion,” and “act — put your beliefs into action.” It’s simple, but sometimes simple is enough. Simple can make you go viral with a message that’s far more helpful than just sitting around and waiting for someone to leave office. “I think that journalism is necessarily an activist practice,” she told me. “I think the function of journalism should be to empower people with information, and the information people need to act and raise their voices.”

“This moment is not about suddenly caring. It’s about finally doing,” she writes in How to Start a Revolution.
Quote
While the right attacks her with outright inhumanity, some on the left questions her sincerity in the movements she writes about and engages in, and wonder whether she deserves whatever success she’s had. Plenty of the criticisms, according to Duca, are just bad-faith arguments. “An example is Pride of 2017: I ate pussy for the first time the night before, and I tweeted the next day, ‘Happy Pride to everyone because no one’s 100% straight.’ I was just, like, pumped. People, women, predominantly in New York media, framed it as if I was All Lives Mattering Pride.” Duca later deleted the tweet after she received backlash.

“Their idea is that I’m espousing equality for personal gain, and that’s what they’re attacking. They're using the language of equality to attack me,” Duca says. “[Do] they think someone who’s out here putting their literal life on the line — death and rape threats, the word ‘literal’ does apply here — to stand up for equality and blaze a trail for young women is doing that to get famous and to — I don't know — barely be able to have health insurance and a home and write a book?”

Older tweets have also resurfaced, ones where she mocked fat people and community college attendees. These, at least, Duca will acknowledge and apologize for. “That’s something I really had to evolve from. I thought I was fucking fat when I wrote that. I was bulimic when I wrote that. I was miserable when I wrote that and I was socialized to think that fat jokes were okay,” she said. “I don’t defend that shit at all. I apologize. Those were horrible. I appreciate that someone would feel skeptical, and I think if their heart is in the right place, they would also be able to hear me say I’m sorry and understand that it was a different time, 2012, in terms of what we understood as politically correct, and we’ve all had to evolve.”
Quote
Duca was hesitant to allow me to join her for her last day of her NYU class, and I understood why. After her syllabus started circulating on Twitter, so did the endless mockery. The syllabus seemed to focus heavily on personal branding (students would have to tweet for 20% of their grade) and ironically included Jon Ronson’s So You’ve Been Publicly Shamed as required reading. Plus, she spelled Rashomon wrong, which upset just about everyone.

“I think that they’re fucking corny. They’re making fun of me — for putting Twitter on my syllabus — on Twitter, which is the only place they have a voice,” Duca said. “I wish the people who spent a ton of time criticizing me would use that energy to make a thing. To have an idea.”

A few days after I sat in on Duca’s class, I received a number of emails, unprompted, from her former students who wanted to talk about their six weeks in her class. “It was an interesting experience to say the least,” one student wrote.

Out of 10 students, five spoke to me on the record, under the condition of anonymity, specifically due to fear of reprisals from Duca or any of her professional connections. All of them had similar allegations against Duca and the class’s structure: that Duca didn’t follow her own syllabus, that she spoke often and inappropriately about her personal life, that she would belittle and yell at students, and, most pressingly, that she targeted one student in particular. All the students wrote a formal letter of complaint to NYU and signed it, “Sincerely, ‘The Feminist Journalist’ Class - Summer 2019.” When I reached out to Duca for her comment on the complaint, she started by saying, “I guess I'm not a teacher.”

The complaint, filed to NYU journalism school’s institute director, Ted Conover, and associate director, Meredith Broussard, on Sept. 11, details many of the same things the five students told me. “There was a consistent lack of professionalism that persisted throughout every aspect of the course,” the complaint reads. “We are disappointed at the department and NYU as an institution for hiring a professor without a syllabus and classroom management skills. We are disappointed at the department and NYU for hiring a professor without a clear course objective.”

Most of the students had never taken any sort of structured journalism class before, and their ages ranged from high school students to college students in their mid-twenties, some of whom had a few internships under their belts. “There was no syllabus or clear expectations of what she would be teaching us. The class kind of banded together to teach each other things so that we weren’t the subject of Lauren’s wrath,” said one student. “I was expecting to learn how to write an article.”

“I created a dynamic, experimental, ever-evolving course structure that pulled from my syllabus, added things in based on our conversation and allowed each of them to individually craft their pieces, and I watched the pieces evolve over the course of the semester,” Duca said in response. “I think that they, on some level, internalized some of the objectives, whether they know that explicitly or not.”

All five students alleged that Duca’s class was disorganized and “a master class in Lauren Duca’s personal life.” (“The point of it is that I'm oversharing all the time. And I think that, yeah, some people like it, some people don't. Apparently you fucking hate it, but that's fine,” Duca told me.) They said that she would vanish for 30 to 45 minutes per class to “meditate.” (“It was a three-hour class and we took a break and I would meditate for 15 minutes and they would be gone getting snacks and stuff,” Duca responded.) And that the class was a “waste of six weeks for all of us, and we don’t want anyone else to make this mistake again.” They claim Duca would snap at them for small problems, accuse them of not having done the readings, and never actually read any of the assignments they submitted to her.

Duca responded that she did read all the assignments, though she added: “It's okay if I'm not a great teacher because I'm great at lots of other things.”

But most galling is that all the students — both in interviews and in the formal complaint to the college — claim that Duca went out of her way to target one student in particular: an exchange student who was visiting New York for school. “Her English wasn’t perfect but that’s hard,” one student told me. “She came from another country. She was very courageous for taking this class.”

The students claimed that Duca would unfairly admonish this particular individual in class. “We all clocked it two or three classes in,” said a classmate. They claimed that Duca said the student “won’t have a lot to say” during class presentations, that she refused to accept assignments from this student while accepting them from others, that she called her work “basic” and “vague,” and that during one class Duca made the student cry during a one-on-one meeting. To this Duca responded, “I said, ‘You need to do the work’; she cried. Like, come on. Is that targeting? What am I supposed to do? ‘You didn't do the work; here's a trophy’?”

“That day was the day that I decided that there’s no way we’re going to let this person teach students again. It was awful. It was absolutely awful,” one of the students told me. “She definitely picked favorites, and she picked people she blatantly didn’t like,” said another. (In the complaint the students wrote to NYU, it says that Duca “consistently targeted this student on the basis of a communication difficulty the student cannot change.”)

“We received a complaint pertaining to Ms. Duca’s course only yesterday and are carefully assessing it,” Conover told me in an email statement on Sept. 12. “After our review, we will determine the course of action that is in the best interests of our students and their education.” Since receiving the complaint, Conover has already reached out to one student to meet in person and discuss the complaint in more detail.

As I continued asking Duca for comment about the specifics of the complaint, she became more and more agitated. “You should put in there that my tone was expressly pissed off and frustrated,” Duca told me. “You're being so fucking hard on me, Scaachi, and I really, really, really, really would ask you if you would be grilling a man in this same way. It's amazing. The shit that I have endured to continue to sustain a voice where I'm just fighting every inch for the same thing that I think that you want, which is public power and equality, and I'm trying my goddamn best, okay?”

The line went silent and I asked Duca if she was still there. She was, and she continued questioning me about my motives around this article before saying, “Congratulations, you thrillingly, thrillingly adept journalist, you have discovered that Lauren Duca is not perfect. Put it in the headline, baby.”
Quote
Duca is already on her way to writing a second book, this one about her “major, major god experience,” which she is tentatively titling Ego in Retreat. Since our first interview and my observation of her final NYU class, Duca has unfollowed me on Twitter.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on September 17, 2019, 11:30:23 PM
https://twitter.com/jacobinmag/status/1173997543488774144

That shit you like? It's socialism.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on September 17, 2019, 11:40:34 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/NTp93SI.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on September 17, 2019, 11:48:13 PM
Believing that we actually have democracy in our lives as things stand :goty2

Quote
In Mao’s China, the working class was the master of society. So, when there is a lot of different opinions among workers, how are you gonna resolve that? This was the key issue. Today, people always talk about “democracy.” In many cases, that is a lie! Active, day-to-day democracy was exercised in Mao’s China! For heaven’s sake, tell me: People were getting into arguments, even getting into fistfights to defend what they think was right! If this is not the working class in power, tell me what it is?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on September 18, 2019, 08:14:56 PM
Quote
It’s “a lot bigger than a few back-and-forths on Twitter,” Javier Miranda, the 25-year-old leader of the DSA chapter in Ames, Iowa, told me. “There’s a fear that if we engage in too much electoral organizing we are losing our capacity to imagine outside the system that we are currently living in,” he said.
That's right. That's exactly right. Unsurprising it takes a local chapter to raise this viewpoint while city libs go insane that some people aren't spending 100% of their time being megaphones for Our Lord And Saviour Bernie Sanders

fuck, maybe Down To The Countryside was a good idea
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on September 19, 2019, 09:30:20 AM
on todays episode of what zizek is up to:
https://twitter.com/EvanPlatinum/status/1174326717357289472 (https://twitter.com/EvanPlatinum/status/1174326717357289472)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on September 19, 2019, 01:20:37 PM
https://twitter.com/stereogum/status/1174319395113512960
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on September 19, 2019, 02:32:51 PM


https://twitter.com/mishellbaker/status/1173279358435258373
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on September 19, 2019, 02:36:19 PM
woke wh*tes are cringe

https://twitter.com/g3thaunted/status/1174169375563296773
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on September 19, 2019, 03:35:48 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/gQ26c5i.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on September 19, 2019, 08:55:47 PM
https://twitter.com/The_Law_Boy/status/1174760098188734465
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on September 19, 2019, 10:59:33 PM
https://twitter.com/QueenInYeIIow/status/1174799923583377408
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on September 19, 2019, 11:16:21 PM
https://twitter.com/QueenInYeIIow/status/1174799923583377408

Hillary and Warren didn't like each other, so why did Hillary supporters seem to move en masse to Warren?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on September 19, 2019, 11:20:07 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/8yW2OWU.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on September 19, 2019, 11:37:25 PM
https://twitter.com/QueenInYeIIow/status/1174799923583377408

Hillary and Warren didn't like each other, so why did Hillary supporters seem to move en masse to Warren?

Because the images of the candidates held by their supporters and detractors only faintly resemble the candidates themselves. See Berners convinced that Warren is the second coming of Hillary (although I suspect many don't buy that but are using it as a convenient line of attack).
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on September 20, 2019, 02:09:49 AM
Also the people who are vocal about politics on social media represent a really tiny and generally deranged fraction of voters.

Most Sanders supporters don't hate Warren, former Hillary voters have been pretty widely dispersed according to polls, etc. The version of politics on Twitter etc. is basically console warz.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on September 20, 2019, 05:56:43 AM
on todays episode of what zizek is up to:
https://twitter.com/EvanPlatinum/status/1174326717357289472 (https://twitter.com/EvanPlatinum/status/1174326717357289472)

What a cancel slut.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on September 20, 2019, 12:21:08 PM
https://twitter.com/liz_franczak/status/1175063467650244610
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Joe Molotov on September 20, 2019, 12:36:33 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/8yW2OWU.jpg)

Legit thought this said Blacked by Big Donors
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: HardcoreRetro on September 20, 2019, 12:46:05 PM
Clitnon.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on September 20, 2019, 12:52:50 PM
https://twitter.com/Noahpinion/status/1174459509797867520
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on September 20, 2019, 02:05:25 PM
https://twitter.com/CIA/status/1174797921184862221
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on September 20, 2019, 03:42:50 PM
https://twitter.com/grumpybirdieS/status/1175096070709403650
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on September 20, 2019, 04:46:46 PM
https://twitter.com/getfiscal/status/1175087545652322305
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on September 20, 2019, 11:06:00 PM
https://twitter.com/JCMounduix/status/1175121572740268033
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on September 21, 2019, 02:01:28 AM
I know it's fun to dunk on them but Jacobin is basically all the American left has right now for socialist perspectives that counter the hegemonic conservatism that dominates the -

https://twitter.com/jacobinmag/status/1174533573585432577

Fuck, never mind.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on September 21, 2019, 01:06:28 PM
https://twitter.com/IAStartingLine/status/1175168526912565248
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on September 21, 2019, 04:21:57 PM
I know it's fun to dunk on them but Jacobin is basically all the American left has right now for socialist perspectives that counter the hegemonic conservatism that dominates the -

https://twitter.com/jacobinmag/status/1174533573585432577

Fuck, never mind.

From the headline I was thinking it was Matt Bruenig but Amber makes more sense
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on September 21, 2019, 04:27:05 PM
Fuck, that was Amber? And I didn't even notice? Lol
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on September 21, 2019, 04:28:06 PM
The giveaway was spending the first paragraph telling us she has cool and hot friends
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: EchoRin on September 21, 2019, 06:34:19 PM
Cuba was an interesting visit. Was still able to see it under Fidel's rule (think he broke his hip around that time or whatever). Never seen so many anorexic cattle in my life.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on September 21, 2019, 06:51:21 PM
There’s definitely a strain of marxist thought that’s committed to historical materialism as a nomothetic science and drains any role for normative discussion.
This doesn't quite cover the same space of debate but I was reading this and I think it gives a great overview of the specific critiques of Engel's Marxism, how resolutely the "classical" Marxists like Luxemburg believed in the scientific aspect of socialism, epistemological challenges, etc. I feel like you've read these arguments before so posting this more for other people who might be interested like Esch.

https://www.marxists.org/subject/marxmyths/john-holloway/article.htm

Anyway I disagree with your rather strong condemnation of this thinking as "intellectually bankrupt". As John Holloway phrased it the objective reality is the support for the subjective struggle of socialists. Asking "so what if there is exploitation, why ought I become a socialist?" is like asking "so what if it's poisonous, why shouldn't I eat it?" The task of Marxist analysis is to lay out a picture of political economy so stark (and yet true in all its claims), and a future so plainly better, that participation is the only rational choice.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on September 21, 2019, 08:46:25 PM
give the libs hell shosta
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on September 21, 2019, 09:23:27 PM
prescriptive marxists are upfront about and can sincerely say that communism is desirable. Scientific marxists can’t but in practice, no one like this ever existed because it’s so perverse (absurd?) to be committed to a descriptive political state of affairs while not endorsing any normative theory.
spoiler (click to show/hide)
Quote
The first of these axes, the concept of history as an objective process independent of human will was the main issue in Rosa Luxemburg’s classic defence of Marxism against the revisionism of Bernstein, in her pamphlet, Reform or Revolution, first published in 1900. Luxemburg’s pamphlet is above all a defence of scientific socialism. For her, the understanding of socialism as objective historic necessity was of central importance to the revolutionary movement: ‘The greatest conquest of the developing proletarian movement has been the discovery of grounds of support for the realisation of socialism in the economic condition of capitalist society. As a result of this discovery, socialism was changed from an ‘ideal’ dream by humanity for thousands of years to a thing of historic necessity’ (1973, p. 35).

Echoing the distinction made by Engels between scientific and utopian socialism, Luxemburg sees the notion of economic or historic necessity as essential if the emptiness of endless calls for justice is to be avoided. Criticising Bernstein, she writes: ‘"Why represent socialism as the consequence of economic compulsion?” he complains. “Why degrade man’s understanding, his feeling for justice, his will?” (Vorwärts, March 26th, 1899) Bernstein’s superlatively just distribution is to be attained thanks to man’s free will, man’s will acting not because of economic necessity, since this will itself is only an instrument, but because of man’s comprehension of justice, because of man’s idea of justice. We thus quite happily return to the principle of justice, to the old war horse on which the reformers of the earth have rocked for ages, for the lack of surer means of historic transportation. We return to that lamentable Rosinante on which the Don Quixotes of history have galloped towards the great reform of the earth, always to come home with their eyes blackened.’ (1973, pp. 44-45)

The scientific character of Marxism is thus seen as its defining feature. The scientific basis of socialism is said to rest ‘on three principal results of capitalist development. First, on the growing anarchy of capitalist economy, leading inevitably to its ruin. Second, on the progressive socialisation of the process of production, which creates the germs of the future social order. And third, on the increased organisation and consciousness of the proletarian class, which constitutes the active factor in the coming revolution’ (1973, p. 11).

The third element, the ‘active factor’, is important for Luxemburg: ‘It is not true that socialism will arise automatically from the daily struggle of the working class. Socialism will be the consequence of (1) the growing contradictions of capitalist economy and (2) the comprehension by the working class of the unavoidability of the suppression of these contradictions through a social transformation’ (1973, p. 31). Thus, although Luxemburg, in common with all the revolutionary theorists, rejects the quietistic interpretation of the inevitability of socialism favoured by many in the German Social Democratic party, the emphasis on the importance of subjective action is located against the background of the objective, historic necessity of socialism. Socialism will be the consequence of (1) objective trends, and (2) subjective comprehension and practice. The focus on the subjective is added to the understanding of Marxism as a theory of the historic necessity of socialism; or, perhaps more precisely, Marxism, as a theory of objective necessity complements and fortifies subjective class struggle. Whichever way around it is put, there is the same dualist separation between the objective and the subjective — ‘the classic dualism of economic law and subjective factor’. (Marramao 1978, p. 29)
[close]

My purpose in quoting this is to show that the people who were the most committed to the scientific aspects socialism when it was seriously under debate were in fact the ones who were the most vociferous in advocating for class struggle, who were the most involved in the actual political movements that swept through Europe in the 20th century, people who literally died for it.

If "no one like this ever existed"... who were you talking about?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on September 21, 2019, 10:15:33 PM
If I recall correctly he thinks labor theory of value is the worst part of marx.
Who's "he"?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on September 21, 2019, 10:31:12 PM
I skipped the philosophical part of anti-Duhring, yolo. I think it's better to just read Socialism: Utopian and Scientific, because all the important stuff in the former came from the latter, but it's short enough to read in a night and it gets the important ideas across.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on September 21, 2019, 11:38:22 PM
https://twitter.com/meaganmday/status/1175614870076526592

 :doge
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on September 21, 2019, 11:46:20 PM
Jake, but I can't find the post :maf
http://www.thebore.com/forum/index.php?topic=44608.msg2291958#msg2291958

As John Holloway phrased it the objective reality is the support for the subjective struggle of socialists. Asking "so what if there is exploitation, why ought I become a socialist?" is like asking "so what if it's poisonous, why shouldn't I eat it?"
there’s an ought in both these arguments. You might think the one in the second is so obvious it’s trivial but it’s not. It needs to be there if you wanna say “you shouldn’t eat something poisonous”.

Quote
The task of Marxist analysis is to lay out a picture of political economy so stark (and yet true in all its claims), and a future so plainly better, that participation is the only rational choice.
this is the rub. The kind of scientific marxism I tried to draw up as an ideal type closes itself off from making normative claims dependent on ‘justice’, ‘right’, sometimes even ‘morality’ because it thinks those terms are shot through with capital’s (or something else specific to a certain temporal/material setting) influence/interest. So it’s not terribly clear in what sense communism would constitute a ‘better’ state of affairs than capitalism. To reply: “it’s better because there isn’t exploitation or alienation” doesn’t work, because under this account (viz. scientific marxism) these terms are purely descriptive. To claim they aren’t would be to equivocate.

My purpose in quoting this is to show that the people who were the most committed to the scientific aspects socialism when it was seriously under debate were in fact the ones who were the most vociferous in advocating for class struggle, who were the most involved in the actual political movements that swept through Europe in the 20th century, people who literally died for it.

If "no one like this ever existed"... who were you talking about?
its exactly those people who were so committed to the cause that they were willing to sacrifice, even die, for it that I find so hard to believe also wouldntve said communism was desirable. It might* be expedient, in purely means-ends terms, for people within a cause to believe they have iron-clad necessity on their side. But that’s different than thinking it actually is and that (some) people should be committed to that cause. It’s that pair of claims that I think is incoherent.

*this is modest, it definitely is

re: the objective reality being the support of the subjective struggle. I mean, I’d hope it would be. Having the best descriptive account is exactly what every other political program claims, and itd also be entirely consistent with a ‘prescriptive’ marxism.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on September 21, 2019, 11:53:27 PM
Analytic philosophers :rage
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on September 22, 2019, 03:20:13 AM
Marx Marx Marx Marx, meanwhile Rousseau had the way better origin story:
Quote
Rousseau wrote Discourse in response to an advertisement that appeared in a 1749 issue of Mercure de France, in which the Academy of Dijon set a prize for an essay responding to the question: "Has the restoration of the sciences and arts contributed to the purification of morals?" According to Rousseau, "Within an instant of reading this [advertisement], I saw another universe and became another man."
Quote
Rousseau [said he] was totally blinded by a sudden inspiration ... in which ... [he had] seen in a single glimpse his entire philosophical system.
He claimed multiple times thereafter to have these visions of the entire philosophy displayed to him.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on September 22, 2019, 05:32:58 AM
The kind of scientific marxism I tried to draw up as an ideal type closes itself off from making normative claims dependent on ‘justice’, ‘right’, sometimes even ‘morality’ because it thinks those terms are shot through with capital’s (or something else specific to a certain temporal/material setting) influence/interest.
You can't criticize an "ideal type" of scientific marxism if, as you have already pointed out, it has never existed and never been argued for. You're obligated to address concrete arguments.

its exactly those people who were so committed to the cause that they were willing to sacrifice, even die, for it that I find so hard to believe also wouldntve said communism was desirable. It might* be expedient, in purely means-ends terms, for people within a cause to believe they have iron-clad necessity on their side. But that’s different than thinking it actually is and that (some) people should be committed to that cause. It’s that pair of claims that I think is incoherent.
My whole point is that they do say it's desirable and they've said it a million times over in the clearest possible terms, buttressed by facts they claim to be objective. Your attitude toward the history of marxist polemic is so sterile here it's incredulous.

I know that the previous discussion was in the context of Stefan Molyneux's staggering genius but you make it quite clear that you genuinely think scientific marxism is "intellectually bankrupt" and "irrelevant for political discussion over the right and the good". I don't know how this can be true when so much of the political discussion is dedicated to arguments of fact over the state of affairs. In that context descriptive analysis is indispensable.

You're way, way more familiar with this stuff than I am, and I know that, so I just have to ask you outright: when you say "a strain of marxist thought that’s committed to historical materialism as a nomothetic science", who are you talking about? Does Luxemburg fall under this umbrella? Kautsky? Lenin? And whoever you point out specifically, do they not have prescriptive claims about socialism? Who is it that you think should have dropped their nomothetic attachments?

re: the objective reality being the support of the subjective struggle. I mean, I’d hope it would be. Having the best descriptive account is exactly what every other political program claims, and itd also be entirely consistent with a ‘prescriptive’ marxism.
Not only is this an irritating hand-wave but it's also wrong. Most political stalemates are arbitrary struggles between ideas. "People have the right to self defense". "Everyone deserves to go to college". "We shouldn't let certain species go extinct". Descriptive accounts by comparison are so powerful they can change the terms of the entire discussion. How much has environmentalism benefited from the science of climate change?

I just don't understand what you mean by prescriptive vs descriptive marxism. Do you mean the decision of English social democrats that humanism is a better foundation for socialism than dialectical materialism? Or do you mean Bernstein vs Luxemburg?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on September 22, 2019, 05:40:54 AM
To reply: “it’s better because there isn’t exploitation or alienation” doesn’t work, because under this account (viz. scientific marxism) these terms are purely descriptive. To claim they aren’t would be to equivocate.
What sick son of a bitch did this to you?  :'(
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on September 22, 2019, 06:39:20 AM
da fuq  :lol :lol :lol :lol
https://twitter.com/KarlreMarks/status/1175718838828195845 (https://twitter.com/KarlreMarks/status/1175718838828195845)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on September 22, 2019, 11:12:56 AM
Quote
The difference between ww1 and ww2 is unbelievable. During the 20 years the whole meaning of warfare changed. WW1 was already a modern war yet a sense of... honour still remained. No longer was it a battle between the kings but as Churchill said it was a battle between nations but human values were the same. WW2 on the other hand was brutish and so murderous that it's hard to believe that they were sperated only by a generation.
Quote
People would play catch with the enemy trenches and throw cigarettes to each other. WWi seems like a fever dream compared to modern warfare
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on September 22, 2019, 03:08:21 PM
:neogaf

The whole honour thing was dead pretty much from the first charge on the Western front.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on September 22, 2019, 03:52:01 PM
https://twitter.com/BetaODork/status/1175544996235218944
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on September 22, 2019, 11:35:59 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/QyRS492.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on September 22, 2019, 11:52:53 PM
https://twitter.com/bennyjohnson/status/1175567531362250753
https://twitter.com/HelenaVillarRT/status/1175847908756905986
Benny Johnson is bad at this.
 :brain
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BIONIC on September 23, 2019, 03:02:51 AM
https://twitter.com/BetaODork/status/1175544996235218944

Bernie and Tulsi would be shredding the dance floor :jeb
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on September 23, 2019, 12:54:15 PM
She's not good enough for him
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on September 23, 2019, 12:58:27 PM
it had me until the "he keeps a pic of hegel by the bed"
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on September 23, 2019, 07:05:26 PM
Ok, I think I figured out the source of our dispute and I’m pretty sure it has to do more with a miscommunication than anything. A miscommunication that I’ll accept blame for misleading anyone. When I say ‘scientific marxism’ I mean the view that the achievement of communism or the communizing process is inevitable. (And there are weaker claims like merely the collapse of capitalism is inevitable, not the construction of ‘socialism’, or ‘communism’, or whatever on top of its ruins.) The nomothetic explanations or universal covering laws that i was expressing skepticism about, and think are inconsistent with normativity*, are the ones that apply to history, specifically. The claims that only deal with poli econ -viz. the LTV, the tendency for the rate of profit to fall, etc.-were not my target here (but I acknowledge that running together the distinction between history + poli econ is one of the big features of marxism) and I think that’s relatively clear from how I’ve implicitly treated them as entirely consistent with a ‘prescriptive’ marxism. I think my scope of intended targets here is a lot narrower here than you thought. It’s the historical inevitability strain in marxism that I take to be “intellectually bankrupt”; it’s also my impression that there aren’t too many people around anymore that subscribe to it, or at least not as many as there used to be.

*i still think that those pair of claims I outlined in my last post are indeed “incoherent”, but for two different reasons. If you just thought that communism was inevitable, there’d be no need for a normative account to explain why it’s a good thing. So 1) viewing communism as a good thing is superfluous. If you also thought that most ways of making normative statements were horseshit (and/or, particular to certain historical conditions), then 2) it’s not clear whether it’d even be possible to argue that communism is a good thing. When I say that this strain of ‘scientific’ marxism (that accepts 1. and 2.) is ‘irrelevant to political discussions over the right and the good’ I mean it in a non-pejorative sense. It’s irrelevant because this kind of ‘scientific’ marxism and, e.g. liberalism, are just categorically different kinds of claims (bundles of claims, really). Thats what I mean by them being incommensurable with each other.

Quote
My whole point is that they do say it's desirable and they've said it a million times over in the clearest possible terms, buttressed by facts they claim to be objective. Your attitude toward the history of marxist polemic is so sterile here it's incredulous.
i perfectly well acknowledge that some have said it’s desirable, and also emphasize its inevitability and also that justice, right, and morality are shibboleths. I’m saying this bundle of claims is untenable. The marxists who thought otherwise were being inconsistent. The marxists who thought that communism wasn’t desirable but still effectively advocated for its inevitability are the ones I’m saying never really existed, because either not honest about or not aware of the actual contents of their minds. If that sounds too woolly for you, I’d ask whether it’s really that much more woolly than thinking that moral and ethical claims are all cynical illusions designed to help siphon resources up a social hierarchy.

Quote
You're way, way more familiar with this stuff than I am
im really not though. The regulars in this thread have read way more of the canonical socialist/communist authors than I have (excepting the Frankfurt schoolers). I can’t pull quotes with the same facility you guys can. And I don’t want to shit up this thread, because you guys are better at conducting it. I can really only ask: is it not the case that socialism/communism as an historical inevitability is an actual line of thought in Marxist discourse, more prominent maybe ~100 years ago? And is it not also the case that it exists alongside another trend that urges commitment to revolutionary causes? Both strains existing in the same thinker, sometimes within the same text?

Quote
Not only is this an irritating hand-wave but it's also wrong. Most political stalemates are arbitrary struggles between ideas.
i think Rawls and Nozick have substantive disagreements over the best method of distributive justice, and over which political values should be prioritized the most, and over a handful of other stuff too. I think people who argue for markets bring to bear certain facts about how markets work that are designed to “buttress” their case in pretty much exactly the same way you seem to be claiming marxists do. We can think that all of these people are wrong, but i fail to see how these are merely arbitrary struggles between ideas, or how they’re not informed by descriptive accounts of states of affairs.

Quote
"People have the right to self defense". "Everyone deserves to go to college". "We shouldn't let certain species go extinct".
well...do they? Don’t they? Shouldn’t we? If you’re taking issue with the state of popular political discourse, then I’m right there with you in viewing it as vapid, ineffectual, and unhealthy. But I don’t see how you can make these (legitimate) problems just disappear by taking away the vocabulary to talk about them. In fact, that sounds like it’d make the problems worse. I feel like I might be misunderstanding you here, though.

Quote
Descriptive accounts by comparison are so powerful they can change the terms of the entire discussion.
Are you saying that we should be attracted to purely descriptive accounts because they cut to the chaff? And because they’re more expedient means to realize desired ends? This is just old normative wine in new descriptive bottles. We care about people’s lives, livelihoods, etc. for normative reasons. You haven’t stepped outside the sphere of moral discussion.

Quote
How much has environmentalism benefited from the science of climate change?
im deliberately remaining agnostic about how theory links up to practice. I have no idea, but I imagine that the solution is a lot hairier than most of us realize.

To reply: “it’s better because there isn’t exploitation or alienation” doesn’t work, because under this account (viz. scientific marxism) these terms are purely descriptive. To claim they aren’t would be to equivocate.
What sick son of a bitch did this to you?  :'(
idk what else to tell you here. For ‘exploitation’, we could equally read “the capitalist’s taking wealth generated by the laborer”. If we accept this, then we still also need a separate normative account that says exploitation = a bad thing before we can commit to a political program that tries to eliminate exploitation. Because by itself, the theory explaining how the capitalist takes wealth from the laborer doesn’t tell us that that shouldn’t happen anymore than Newton’s third law tells us that objects shouldn’t exert an equal and opposite force on objects that hit them. Again, to reply: “whatcha mean, ‘its not a bad thing?’ It’s right there in the term: to exploit”; this is why I cautioned against equivocation. This sneaks in the colloquial sense of a word at the end of an argument after we’ve already decided that talk of right, justice, and/or morality is horseshit.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on September 23, 2019, 07:23:42 PM
didn't read lol
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on September 23, 2019, 07:31:06 PM
working my way through, but

The marxists who thought that communism wasn’t desirable but still effectively advocated for its inevitability are the ones I’m saying never really existed, because either not honest about or not aware of the actual contents of their minds.

you mean like... Schumpeter?
(https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1387667632l/889556.jpg)

8)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on September 23, 2019, 07:32:31 PM
speaking of labor theory of value

https://www.thetricontinental.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/190922_Notebook-2_EN.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1SVuEpt-ICnlAN4LqePNfyZ_mkmo4vM7mDbz2PY4dev7SzjwH_7IyybFw (https://www.thetricontinental.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/190922_Notebook-2_EN.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1SVuEpt-ICnlAN4LqePNfyZ_mkmo4vM7mDbz2PY4dev7SzjwH_7IyybFw)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on September 23, 2019, 07:39:45 PM
Quote
You're way, way more familiar with this stuff than I am
im really not though. The regulars in this thread have read way more of the canonical socialist/communist authors than I have (excepting the Frankfurt schoolers). I can’t pull quotes with the same facility you guys can.
Kara is the one who radicalized me, but you were the one who gave me my homework! (http://www.thebore.com/forum/index.php?topic=24400.msg2507829#msg2507829) :lol

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Graeber sucked
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on September 23, 2019, 08:24:46 PM
#latestagecapitalism #garbagethread crosspost
https://www.townandcountrymag.com/society/money-and-power/a29038520/abigail-disney-income-inequality-interview/
Quote
Abigail Disney Has a Plan to Fix Capitalism
The heiress has become a warrior for income inequality, but she's no socialist. If you like capitalism, she says, you "better fix it."
Quote
Sitting in her newly renovated Manhattan apartment, Disney tells me, “I don’t think the problem is capitalism; I think it’s fundamentalist capitalism that we’re practicing right now. And every fundamentalism does a violence to the text that supports it, right? Because the letter killeth, and the spirit giveth life. We need to bring a social and emotional intelligence back into the way we understand the practice of business.”
Quote
Disney has said she is worth “around $120 million” and estimates that she has given away $70 million over the past 30 years to such causes as the Global Fund for Women and Peace Is Loud.

In the course of “do-gooding around New York City,” she got invited to join a group of women on a trip to Liberia in 2006, which had just come out of a civil war and a period of brutal military dictatorship. There she met the peace activist (and future Nobel laureate) Leymah Gbowee, who became the subject of the documentary Pray the Devil Back to Hell, which Disney herself produced. Up to that point she had been a stay-at-home mom to her four children. “It was really a lucky break,” she says. “If I’d been left to my own devices, I don’t know if I ever would have figured out my life.”

She has since produced dozens of documentaries and directed one, 2015’s ­Emmy-winning The Armor of Light, about the evangelical minister Robert Schenck’s change of heart on gun control. “We couldn’t be more opposite in so many ways, religiously, politically, culturally—certainly in terms of our economic status,” Schenck says. “But through this project, which I reluctantly took on, we forged a friendship. And that friendship took me on an odyssey that precipitated a huge shift in my opinions on a whole range of things.”

In 2017, Disney was approached by ­Killer Content co-founder Adrienne ­­Becker with a plan to buy the Weinstein Company library and channel the profits from reselling it to victims of sexual assault. “I just thought that was genius,” Disney says. But the women grew disillusioned with the process, which they came to feel favored a rival bidder, so they decided to transition what they had taken to calling Project Level Forward into ­Level Forward Inc.

They backed Broadway’s recent revisionist staging of Oklahoma!, which won a Tony for best revival, as well as the one-­woman show What the Constitution Means to Me, which was nominated for best play. Their next show, the Alanis Morissette musical Jagged Little Pill, comes to Broadway in November.
Quote
Disney’s next documentary as director, as yet untitled, will be an in-depth look at income inequality. “I’m trying to get it out really quickly before the next election,” she says, “because I think this issue is going to be very prominent.” When asked about 2020, she expresses admiration for Elizabeth Warren but says she isn’t ready just yet to commit to a single candidate. “I’m waiting for the field to break out,” she says, adding that she knows who she won’t support.

“I’m not a socialist. I think capitalism works very well when it’s done with a human angle. We have a class of people who are living so far above everyone else, it’s corrosive to democracy.”

When I start to say, “So your position is that if you like capitalism—” Disney is quick to finish the sentence.

“You better fix it.”
let there be Disney Revolutionary Justice™ :jeb
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on September 23, 2019, 09:07:11 PM
"Finally, in times when the class struggle nears the decisive hour, the progress of dissolution going on within the ruling class, in fact within the whole range of old society, assumes such a violent, glaring character, that a small section of the ruling class cuts itself adrift, and joins the revolutionary class, the class that holds the future in its hands. Just as, therefore, at an earlier period, a section of the nobility went over to the bourgeoisie, so now a portion of the bourgeoisie goes over to the proletariat, and in particular, a portion of the bourgeois ideologists, who have raised themselves to the level of comprehending theoretically the historical movement as a whole."—Forums Poster curly

Abigail Disney... welcome to the resistance 8)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on September 24, 2019, 01:01:56 AM
https://twitter.com/REALpunknews/status/1176360768721305600
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Brehvolution on September 24, 2019, 11:22:12 AM
https://twitter.com/bennyjohnson/status/1175567531362250753
https://twitter.com/HelenaVillarRT/status/1175847908756905986
Benny Johnson is bad at this.
 :brain

Cons: Socialism bad

Also cons:
https://twitter.com/heshnarayanan/status/1176466812042731532
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on September 24, 2019, 11:23:13 AM
The good kind of chemtrails.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on September 24, 2019, 11:59:56 AM
automation will lead to net job creation https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/businessreview/2019/09/23/hidden-in-plain-sight-the-ghost-in-the-automation-and-future-of-work-debate-1/
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on September 24, 2019, 01:03:56 PM
https://twitter.com/loganmmurdock/status/1176344352404033537
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: kingv on September 24, 2019, 01:15:08 PM
I like my auto I stink fan fic:

we are capable of automating tons of jobs, but due to the erosion of labor rights, it never pays out to automate menial jobs like fast food workers or warehouse pickers. So instead, it’s only our bosses that get automated and we all just move into menial labor jobs that pay minimum wage.

If you’ve ever been to a Walmart distribution center, this is kind of how it works. There is like this Alexa like computer that speaks out of a headset that all of the warehouse “pickers” wear. It tells them where to go next and how many to grab. It’s basically the dispatcher and it’s just a computer. But all of the actual picking is done by humans. That’s our future. We just pull all the levers that the machine tells us to.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on September 24, 2019, 03:47:20 PM
I like my auto I stink fan fic:

we are capable of automating tons of jobs, but due to the erosion of labor rights, it never pays out to automate menial jobs like fast food workers or warehouse pickers. So instead, it’s only our bosses that get automated and we all just move into menial labor jobs that pay minimum wage.

If you’ve ever been to a Walmart distribution center, this is kind of how it works. There is like this Alexa like computer that speaks out of a headset that all of the warehouse “pickers” wear. It tells them where to go next and how many to grab. It’s basically the dispatcher and it’s just a computer. But all of the actual picking is done by humans. That’s our future. We just pull all the levers that the machine tells us to.

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/zBVggGXGxxc/maxresdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on September 24, 2019, 06:44:05 PM
https://twitter.com/rabihalameddine/status/1176150167063384064
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on September 24, 2019, 08:45:17 PM
https://twitter.com/ErkinOncan/status/1176542960630018050
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on September 24, 2019, 11:15:45 PM
https://twitter.com/Lexitmovement/status/1176581363777978368
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on September 24, 2019, 11:55:04 PM
https://twitter.com/Lexitmovement/status/1176581363777978368

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6sg25QoHfY
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on September 25, 2019, 12:32:30 AM
https://twitter.com/calebmaupin/status/1176689421816647680
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on September 25, 2019, 01:07:15 AM
https://twitter.com/Lexitmovement/status/1167525131201044480
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on September 25, 2019, 02:02:45 AM
https://twitter.com/cushbomb/status/1176716098223443974
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on September 25, 2019, 10:38:20 AM
https://twitter.com/jmrphy/status/1176703990056267777

 :brain :paul
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on September 25, 2019, 09:59:57 PM
https://twitter.com/DanBoeckner/status/1176927074952499201

https://twitter.com/Goatstein/status/1176908094862835713
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on September 25, 2019, 10:09:04 PM
https://twitter.com/Lexitmovement/status/1176581363777978368

wasted opportunity not going with mexit
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on September 26, 2019, 12:04:20 AM
https://twitter.com/MikeElk/status/1176971530531741697
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Joe Molotov on September 26, 2019, 12:33:10 PM
retire bitch
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Brehvolution on September 26, 2019, 01:13:07 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4CI2vk3ugk
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: EchoRin on September 26, 2019, 02:13:10 PM
That J Beep bit at 7:44  :lol :lol :lol
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on September 26, 2019, 05:39:56 PM
Social democracy is BACK baby! Your masters have decreed thusly :lawd
Bismarck's State Socialism  (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Socialism_(Germany))
the Taft-Hartley Act  (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taft%E2%80%93Hartley_Act)
the 1947 Crises (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_1947_crises)
the Bernie Sanders campaign linking up with Ben and Jerry's

It's different this time! Class collaboration can work!
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on September 26, 2019, 06:17:19 PM
Esch, did you just get a FT sub or something?

spoiler (click to show/hide)
like Amber :doge

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Chomsky says he only reads stuff like cnbc because, ironically, the ruling class needs the most accurate information compared to the pablum they let us read :lol
[close]
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on September 26, 2019, 11:30:55 PM
Quote
Please use the sharing tools found via the share button at the top or side of articles. Copying articles to share with others is a breach of FT.com T&Cs and Copyright Policy. Email licensing@ft.com to buy additional rights. Subscribers may share up to 10 or 20 articles per month using the gift article service. More information can be found at https://www.ft.com/tour.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on September 27, 2019, 01:10:42 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/YxUHmwc.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: EchoRin on September 27, 2019, 01:15:46 AM
He looks like a dinosaur getting sucked off.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on September 27, 2019, 10:00:35 AM
https://twitter.com/grace_lightning/status/1177304092944654336

 :hmm
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on September 27, 2019, 01:05:29 PM
https://twitter.com/FiringLineShow/status/1177397448320458753
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on September 27, 2019, 07:48:16 PM
https://twitter.com/compartycanada/status/1177704903130730496

These getfiscal retweets are inscrutable sometimes
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on September 28, 2019, 03:01:42 AM
https://www.cosmopolitan.com/politics/a29255694/bernie-sanders-cosmopolitan-interview-election-immigration-gun-control-healthcare-young-women/
Quote
Cosmo Asks Bernie Sanders the Questions Young Women Want Answered

In new series The Candidates Come to Cosmo, presidential hopeful Bernie Sanders sits down with Editor-in-Chief Jessica Pels to talk reproductive rights, climate change, gun control, and why he could really, really use a vacation.
the looping image at the top of the article is the greatest thing since he scared that dude with SOCALISM!
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on September 28, 2019, 09:27:51 AM
new moldbug doing the rounds on twitter even anyone cares about nrx shit https://americanmind.org/essays/the-clear-pill-part-1-of-5-the-four-stroke-regime/
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on September 28, 2019, 11:29:26 AM
If he gets a new lease on life because the intellectual atmosphere is so much more sympathetic to his craziness now than it was ten years ago that's going to really suck
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on September 28, 2019, 12:15:56 PM
If he gets a new lease on life because the intellectual atmosphere is so much more sympathetic to his craziness now than it was ten years ago that's going to really suck
agreed. i'll read the article at work tomorrow though but i imagine i'll come out thinking if only his mum took the morning-after pill
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on September 28, 2019, 01:29:01 PM
Please don't, life is too short. There's no way he's gotten any better at writing since then. I mean "Part 1 of 5", lol, he really hasn't changed. I had the displeasure of talking to him for a whole week a couple of years ago. I was working on some documentation for his software project urbit (I was unemployed and bored, and was kind of feeling sorry that he kept being disinvited from events as cancel culture started ramping up), and after some frustration just gave up on it because his ideas were so confused, so needlessly overcomplicated, and the whole thing was just a waste of time. (I think there's still some value still in a cryptocurrency based identity system but the rest of the stack was completely onanistic.) That's exactly how his essays are. They're needlessly long and you can see "the point" coming a mile a way as he tortures you with his autodidactic worldbuilding. Better to just not bother at all.

Unfortunately I think, like, maybe the world is ready for a new Julius Evola, but there's a good chance he just bores people to death. Or he capitalizes on saying he was the birth of the alt right (kind of is?). If that does happen you're going to have a bunch of people running around advocating to bring back monarchy and slavery and it's going to be crazy.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on September 28, 2019, 02:01:20 PM
Quote
Here is one way to check out any idea you don’t want to believe: assume it’s true, then build a new reality around that axiom. Once you fail, you get to say: I can’t see how this could be true. I don’t want to believe the CIA did 9/11. I try to build a reality in which it did. I fail spectacularly. I go back to believing it was an al-Qaeda conspiracy. I don’t want to believe OJ is guilty. I assume he’s innocent, then look for the real killers. But I can’t even imagine them.
can't help but make it racial even when it's irrelevant :dead

Quote
My own kids accuse me of owning “way too many old books about Hitler.”
:dead

Quote
The House has not dipped below an 80% incumbency rate since 1938, the Senate below 60% since 1980; the usual figures are 90+ and 80+; seniority and other rules easily clog this institutional gap. Yet in theory the voters could trivially replace the House and easily the Senate—rules and all. They do not; so in theory, they must be satisfied. Yet Congress’s normal popularity rating is under 20%.
just the kind of :brain shit I would expect from the right
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on September 28, 2019, 02:21:00 PM
Ok, I'm done. It was a good explanation of the distribution of power in constitutional democracies. But the next essays are about democracy, constitutionalism, and fascism. And the fifth contains instructions for your "blank slate". I expect aristocracy.

Crash Dummy, we're going to hate read all of these  :vr
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on September 28, 2019, 02:35:44 PM
https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/1178011264716595201

 :drool
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on September 28, 2019, 03:21:34 PM
Crash Dummy, we're going to hate read all of these  :vr
well that's a given right? i'm not enamoured by his methodology and i think you're being too kind with the evola comparison
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on September 28, 2019, 03:24:57 PM
i'm not enamoured by his methodology
ha, if you can even call it "methodology"
Quote
I think you're being too kind with the evola comparison
Being kind certainly wasn't my intention. Julius Evola was a disgusting human being.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on September 28, 2019, 03:40:46 PM
oh evola was a huge piece of shit, i didn't mean to make light of that and i don't think of him as just a slightly loony rightwing occultist but at least you get some insight into european fascism through his work; i genuinely don't see the value of moldbug at all
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on September 29, 2019, 01:05:00 AM
How about, The Conquest of Head, and it's an anarcho-PUA guide to having sex in communes
i want this written by someone like irvine welsh from the pov of those guys who go undercover investigating cults but by the end have joined the cult and are fully indoctrinated. the twist would be he's a deep state agent with a vd

The book would be called Mutual AIDS, and it starts off with the main character dropping off assault rifles in Venezuela for compradores.
so I saw an ad for the new Jack Ryan show again and, I gotta ask: Esch, are we gonna watch it? Because I think we have to hate watch it
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on September 29, 2019, 05:29:50 AM
https://twitter.com/ZiziFothSi/status/1178234429350825984
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on September 29, 2019, 10:57:14 AM
https://twitter.com/DrDooleyMD/status/1178304786350915584

 8)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on September 29, 2019, 11:28:01 AM
https://twitter.com/KamalaHarris/status/1178289966675304448
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Van Cruncheon on September 29, 2019, 11:29:14 AM
new moldbug doing the rounds on twitter even anyone cares about nrx shit https://americanmind.org/essays/the-clear-pill-part-1-of-5-the-four-stroke-regime/

good lord that's some teenaged nihilism peppered with a grad student's latin
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on September 30, 2019, 12:12:21 AM
https://twitter.com/010_10_101/status/1178464585298280449
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on September 30, 2019, 01:18:41 AM
filler, what do you think this thread is?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BIONIC on September 30, 2019, 02:02:13 AM
He’s trying to make it readable.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on September 30, 2019, 03:12:47 AM
all these threads meld together as tweet sharing threads anyway
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on September 30, 2019, 09:17:20 AM
filler, what do you think this thread is?
I can't read portugeuse  :trumps
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on September 30, 2019, 11:34:36 AM
^liked for zizek video, but those quotes reminded of something eric hoffer wrote about traits of leafers and makes me think we're not going to see the kind of leaders the writer of that article would like if people are vulnerable
Quote
audacity and a joy in defiance; an iron will; a fanatical conviction that he is in possession of the one and only truth; faith in his destiny and luck; a capacity for passionate hatred; contempt for the present; a cunning estimate of human nature; a delight in symbols (spectacles and ceremonials); unbounded brazenness which finds expression in a disregard for consistency and fairness; a recognition that the innermost craving of a following is for communion and that there can never be too much of it; a capacity for winning and holding the utmost loyalty of a group of able lieutenants.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BIONIC on September 30, 2019, 11:52:21 AM
filler, what do you think this thread is?
I can't read portugeuse  :trumps

Assimilate (PBUH) probably could :tocry

Top of page Praxis:
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-4GEyPH88VVQ/TlrFxFcnmfI/AAAAAAAAGfs/_B3kFJWmIdk/s1600/Adam+Jensen+Concept+wallpaper.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on September 30, 2019, 02:12:05 PM
The social and economic issues inherent to liberalism are acknowledged as a constant factor throughout the history of liberalism, but there is no vision to resolve them aside from the application of Strong and Stable Leadership.
she also brings up an educative dimension though. The liberal fascination with heroes is completely pathetic, but the failure to form liberal citizens is a legit macro-problem and I find it really hard to believe that the over-prioritization of technical, professional education doesn’t have at least something to do with it. So I think she’s right about that much.

She’s also right about liberals failing to offer a compelling moral vision (I think we agree on this?). If you’re right, and liberals do actually offer a moral vision, I think it’d reduce to: empathy with the dispossessed and indigent. And I think where liberals fail in communicating this is in explaining why exactly empathy is owed to such people and how to identify them (and obv, what this empathy will amount to in material terms, but I think liberals do talk about this frequently). And I think those failures have been shown up by reactionary judo flipping of the terms of moral discussion by redefining desert and moral worth to redirect things like entitlements, state largesse, and party patronage towards hegemonic groups.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Liberalism as a moral vision, at least under one construal, might just be inherently unstable, and at a pretty fundamental level. It starts from the twin assumptions of a free and equal citizenry and pluralism, or, everyone’s right to the pursuit of their own good (consistent with a set of everyone else’s right). It aims to defend both and how it manages to get off the ground is by placing the Right over the Good. Questions over what it would be good for everyone to do (sometimes called perfectionist theories) can’t be resolved by state coercion; that’s held as much by lockean propertarians on the right as it is by Rawlsian/Dworkinian market socialists on the left. What can be the object of legitimate violence is the policing of what’s owed to people as members of a free and equal citizenry. So the boundaries liberals draw for themselves wrt moral discussion are narrower than other groups who are ok with ditching pluralism. One example that I think articulates the implicit logic in a lot of liberal thinking is Shklars liberalism of fear. But this kind of defense of liberalism as the least worst option is obv not an inspiring moral vision. No one would die for it. While we’ve seen plenty of people kill for their particular illiberal visions.
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on September 30, 2019, 10:52:37 PM
https://twitter.com/charlesornstein/status/1178635624166891521
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on September 30, 2019, 10:55:59 PM
Because people so often use "a truly remarkable story" in purely a positive connotation I was reading that tweet as approving of the valuable cost saving for taxpayers at first.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on September 30, 2019, 11:02:46 PM
Hey Jake, the lost history of liberalism author:

https://twitter.com/TheEconomist/status/1178146718380113920
It's true, the Justice on the far right of that picture had to recluse himself from a Supreme Court case (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_re_Neagle) because it stemmed from that time in California he had been arrested for murder. None of the justices today can inspire me like that.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on September 30, 2019, 11:04:04 PM
Just like how they killed Gramsci :goty2
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on September 30, 2019, 11:35:58 PM
https://twitter.com/isgoodrum/status/1178875516285149184
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on October 01, 2019, 05:30:21 AM
I've finally been reading Schumpeter's book on socialism since I brought it up a few pages ago.

"Perhaps some readers feel that a proviso should be added about the distribution of the total monetary income. Until about forty years ago, many economists besides Marx believed that the capitalist process tended to change relative shares in the national total so that the obvious inference from our average might be invalidated by the rich growing richer and the poor growing poorer, at least relatively. But there is no such tendency. Whatever may be thought of the statistical measures devised for the purpose, this much is certain: that the structure of the pyramid of incomes, expressed in terms of money, has not greatly changed during the period covered by our material—which for England includes the whole of the nineteenth century—and that the relative share of wages plus salaries has also been substantially constant over time. There is, so long as we are discussing what the capitalist engine might do if left to itself, no reason to believe that the distribution of incomes or the dispersion about our average would in 1978 be significantly different from what it was in 1928."

Oops! :heh
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on October 01, 2019, 09:12:59 AM
Hey Jake, the lost history of liberalism author:

https://twitter.com/TheEconomist/status/1178146718380113920
It's true, the Justice on the far right of that picture had to recluse himself from a Supreme Court case (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_re_Neagle) because it stemmed from that time in California he had been arrested for murder. None of the justices today can inspire me like that.

And the guy that was killed was his predecessor on the California Supreme Court, who had been kicked out for killing a US Senator in a duel.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on October 01, 2019, 10:38:27 AM
https://twitter.com/GeorgiaDemocrat/status/1178753777857376257
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: EchoRin on October 01, 2019, 07:09:29 PM
Lol. That's just lazy when you have Atlanta in your state.  :lol :lol
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on October 01, 2019, 08:02:56 PM
I just learned that technically, employment discrimination against CPUSA members is still perfectly legal because their exemption from title vii of the civil rights act was never repealed :lol

Would be an interesting court challenge  :hmm
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on October 02, 2019, 10:36:50 AM
https://www.pnas.org/content/116/39/19392.short?rss=1
Quote
The Chinese Communist Revolution that culminated in the 1949 founding of the People’s Republic of China fundamentally transformed class relations in China. With data from a nationally representative, longitudinal survey between 2010 and 2016, this study documents the long-term impact of the Communist Revolution on the social stratification order in today’s China, more than 6 decades after the revolution. True to its stated ideological missions, the revolution resulted in promoting the social status of children of the peasant, worker, and revolutionary cadre classes and disadvantaging those who were from privileged classes at the time of the revolution. Although there was a tendency toward “reversion” mitigating the revolution’s effects in the third generation toward the grandparents’ generation in social status, the overall impact of reversion was small. The revolution effects were most pronounced for the birth cohorts immediately following the revolution, attenuating for recently born cohorts.
:jawalrus
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on October 02, 2019, 06:50:03 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/mlvOYia.png)

where the fuck is kara :lol



Quote
Sorin Hines, 17: Between anarchism and democratic socialism

North Carolina | he/him/his

My father was a devout libertarian. My dad was raised to be, is still, and will likely die a very rich man. He failed to ask for the perspective of the actual human beings who were being affected by the system he loved to complain about.

When my parents divorced two years ago, I was no longer constantly expected to uphold the same ideology as my father. I could express nonlibertarian opinions in my own home without being accused of being a socialist/communist sympathizer or an enemy of the poor. It was also the first time that I could openly question my gender, and I realized that I was (and still am) trans. I could say, as I always wanted to, that I wanted there to be laws in place protecting the LGBTQ+ community — my community — from workplace discrimination.

Then I got into the punk scene. That was like putting gasoline on a campfire. I had only known anarchism as the more extreme sect of libertarianism, anarcho-capitalism. I now understood anarchism to be much more vast than that. Anarchism inspired my belief that a just world could be created through communities that were wholeheartedly interested in and able to support their fellow people once they are no longer held down. In order to shift power from those that hold it, we need to destroy the pieces of the system that hold capital where it is. But if a politician were to introduce good policies, I would be in support of that.

Quote
Lydia Hirsch, 19: Marxist

Los Angeles, California | she/her/hers

My politics have always been vaguely on the left, due in part to having a father who wrote songs about the war in Iraq and how he hated George W. Bush. I was brought deeper into politics by the 2016 Democratic primaries. Bernie Sanders stood out to me because he offered policies that would be beneficial to students and workers and was not afraid to use the word "socialism," something I didn't expect. I was frustrated by how everything turned out.

I started studying more history and reading theory. I could never understand why I should identify less with an Iraqi child than a U.S. soldier. I went to a few meetings of local organizations and demonstrations against ICE. I began to consider myself a committed leftist. I also listened to a lot of Phil Ochs.

I spent a few months in France in the fall of 2018, and happened to be there during the gilets jaunes (yellow vest) demonstrations, one of which I attended. It was the first truly mass demonstration I'd been to. I met many communists and anarchists in Paris. When I got home, I was determined to study as hard as I could. I read through [Karl Marx's] Capital, Volume 1, most of [Vladimir] Lenin's works, some [Peter] Kropotkin, [Rosa] Luxemburg, some [Leon] Trotsky, some works by historians, and many articles and online texts. I joined discussion groups and met a lot of other leftists.

I consider myself a Marxist but am still sympathetic to anarchism in the sense that I do think there is a meaningful distinction between libertarian and authoritarian conceptions of communism, and that the need to abolish the state must be emphasized. I'm still learning a lot, and I want to work with others to understand how to liberate humanity and abolish class society and wage labor.

I can't believe chapo trap house literally radicalized a significant portion of gen z
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on October 02, 2019, 07:51:02 PM
https://twitter.com/wyrdtweeter?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

whose dog is dis
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on October 02, 2019, 07:52:26 PM
YOUNG, INTELLECTUALLY INTENSE, SWITCHED ON DOG.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Joe Molotov on October 02, 2019, 07:56:48 PM
https://twitter.com/wyrdtweeter/status/1179523398990536706
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Rufus on October 03, 2019, 11:10:27 AM
"Drops" was a bad choice of words. He's enacting it, not abandoning it.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Joe Molotov on October 03, 2019, 11:14:22 AM
Elizabeth Warren is going to be president huh :whew

https://www.wsj.com/articles/business-roundtable-steps-back-from-milton-friedman-theory-11566205200

Business Leaders: "We live in a society!"
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on October 03, 2019, 01:52:28 PM
https://twitter.com/CarlZha/status/1179767277656432643 (https://twitter.com/CarlZha/status/1179767277656432643)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on October 03, 2019, 09:33:22 PM
Quote
Asked to respond to Sen. Sanders’s comment that billionaires should not exist, Zuckerberg offered an unexpected viewpoint, considering his Facebook ownership makes him worth over $69 billion.

“I understand where he’s coming from,” Zuckerberg said. “I don’t know that I have an exact threshold on what amount of money someone should have but on some level no one deserves to have that much money.”
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on October 04, 2019, 03:18:24 AM
https://twitter.com/WewuzSpartans/status/1178735548112015362
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on October 04, 2019, 03:19:57 AM
I remember Titan Quest :aah
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on October 04, 2019, 08:41:49 PM
I started reading Caliban and the Witch and on one hand there are a lot of really interesting ideas but on the other key parts of the history seem pretty shaky even to a layman like myself and it's souring me on the whole thing.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on October 04, 2019, 09:13:36 PM
It's just disappointing that there wasn't a mass rebellion of witches against feudalism
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on October 05, 2019, 01:11:26 PM
https://twitter.com/Gundisalvus/status/1179095148933763072

 :kermit
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BIONIC on October 05, 2019, 01:39:20 PM
https://twitter.com/ad_inifinitum/status/1179789538081816577
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: toku on October 05, 2019, 03:02:10 PM
nvm already posted bless up
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on October 05, 2019, 06:17:59 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBIttqZcIho

Whatever this is, it is the opposite of Praxis.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on October 05, 2019, 08:43:02 PM
https://twitter.com/yuhboyLilTrump/status/1179081373509996544
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on October 06, 2019, 02:02:53 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/09fU27J.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on October 06, 2019, 02:49:30 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBIttqZcIho

Whatever this is, it is the opposite of Praxis.

I saw a clip yesterday of Michael Brooks getting ill at watching this :lol
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on October 06, 2019, 03:59:41 PM
I miss Kara  :(
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on October 07, 2019, 02:49:08 AM
Random thought but my problem with Jacobin even more than it's politics is that there needs to be a leftist publication somewhere between unreadably dense academic language on one hand and basic propagandising on the other and it consistently fails to be that.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on October 07, 2019, 10:04:51 AM
Random thought but my problem with Jacobin even more than it's politics is that there needs to be a leftist publication somewhere between unreadably dense academic language on one hand and basic propagandising on the other and it consistently fails to be that.
teen vogue   ;)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on October 07, 2019, 04:19:13 PM
https://twitter.com/SouthPark/status/1181273539799736320
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on October 07, 2019, 04:26:44 PM
https://twitter.com/ZaidJilani/status/1180575947856236545
What if the petty bourgeoisie were the most reactionary class? :ohhh

Wait, where have I heard that before? :hmm
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on October 07, 2019, 08:59:47 PM
To riff of this old post i went into a bookstore today and all the anarchist lit was thrown into a kook section. Kropotkin, Graeber, Bookchin etc next to books about peyote, magic, aliens and  LSD astral projection from the 60s.

There was a Western Philosophy section next to it with other left lit. The disrespect is real :whew
(https://i.imgur.com/WHgWng4.png)
he deleted this tweet after five minutes :dead
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on October 08, 2019, 09:06:30 AM
 :lol :lol :lol
https://twitter.com/poaststructural/status/1181358684355661829 (https://twitter.com/poaststructural/status/1181358684355661829)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on October 09, 2019, 11:27:02 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/MRdaRy9.png)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on October 09, 2019, 11:39:28 AM
:lol :lol :lol
https://twitter.com/poaststructural/status/1181358684355661829 (https://twitter.com/poaststructural/status/1181358684355661829)

That watch. :hhh
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on October 09, 2019, 01:26:41 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/XYIltnM.png) (https://www.cjr.org/public_editor/cnn-coverage-reporting.php)

 :idont
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on October 09, 2019, 01:34:22 PM
 :hmm
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on October 09, 2019, 07:46:18 PM
Random thought but my problem with Jacobin even more than it's politics is that there needs to be a leftist publication somewhere between unreadably dense academic language on one hand and basic propagandising on the other and it consistently fails to be that.
teen vogue   ;)
https://twitter.com/SatansJacuzzi/status/1181992779293106178

 ;)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on October 09, 2019, 09:00:38 PM
I'd catch a ball game with hitler  :smug
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Rufus on October 09, 2019, 09:06:49 PM
I'd catch a ball game with hitler  :smug
Yeah, smoke meth together.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mew0tJTViKk
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on October 09, 2019, 10:47:10 PM
an 8 ball game  ;)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on October 09, 2019, 11:39:03 PM
Quote
Professor Otto Ranke realized in 1938 that there was a medicine out there that was highly popular in the German civilian population. This was Pervatin methamphetamine, and he read some of the reports ... [that] concluded that methamphetamine reduces the fear level, if given in high dosages, and also reduces the need to sleep. ... So he started doing tests in 1938 and in 1939 on young medical officers in Berlin. ... [And] he came to the conclusion that meth is the perfect drug for soldiers, and he suggested this to his superiors. He said, "We should distribute meth officially among the troops."

:salute
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on October 09, 2019, 11:44:02 PM
 :mods
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on October 10, 2019, 05:04:44 PM
https://nplusonemag.com/online-only/online-only/professional-managerial-chasm/ (https://nplusonemag.com/online-only/online-only/professional-managerial-chasm/)

Really liked this piece. Most clear-headed analysis of the current situation on the left I've read. 
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on October 10, 2019, 05:48:54 PM
That's the good shit. :aah
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on October 10, 2019, 06:17:28 PM
https://nplusonemag.com/online-only/online-only/professional-managerial-chasm/ (https://nplusonemag.com/online-only/online-only/professional-managerial-chasm/)

Really liked this piece. Most clear-headed analysis of the current situation on the left I've read.

Ok but it doesn't tell me who is right ? :confused
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on October 10, 2019, 06:18:24 PM
Tulsi obviously
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on October 10, 2019, 06:20:57 PM
Ok but it doesn't tell me who is right ? :confused
Quote
As the class from which both Sanders and Warren draw their activist support has gradually caved in, it has set in motion not one but two efforts to find a path out of the wreckage. The Sanders effort seems willing to go farther, understanding that he cannot actually make good on his goals through the ordinary legislative process. Warren is poised on the margin. She clearly recognizes the rising discontent of the PMC and its increasing resonance with working-class grievances, and seeks to respond in meaningful ways. But her campaign remains more thoroughly in the rehabilitative mode: putting democracy back on its feet, cleaning up the system, and putatively giving her decomposing social base the chance to recompose itself. A Warren victory would be cleansing, marking a return; a Sanders victory would open a new chapter—though a vaguely defined one. But in contradistinction to all these pretenders to socialism, a Tulsi victory would be most revolutionary of all.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on October 10, 2019, 06:22:38 PM
Screw this noise, I'm voting Pence.  :dobbs
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on October 11, 2019, 03:27:16 PM
https://twitter.com/TribTowerViews/status/1182738630785134592
https://twitter.com/dillonliam/status/1182686899334369280

Gotta love how people get mad when government proposes to actually make some people lives marginally better. A dude complains how much homeless are literally walking the streets and gets mad when the city of L.A. proposes to take them off the street.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on October 11, 2019, 05:06:04 PM
https://twitter.com/atheist_cvnt/status/1181410473788370944
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on October 12, 2019, 04:06:18 PM
https://twitter.com/venanalysis/status/1182651763914088448

Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on October 12, 2019, 06:24:15 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/MMZMA3L.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BIONIC on October 13, 2019, 01:17:12 AM
If nothing else, you gotta respect his dedication to his craft  :doge
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on October 14, 2019, 09:21:10 AM
https://twitter.com/thewastedworld/status/1183724308750692354 (https://twitter.com/thewastedworld/status/1183724308750692354)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on October 15, 2019, 12:59:22 PM
IMF response will probably be to just let them default on their debt.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: EchoRin on October 15, 2019, 01:42:31 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/MMZMA3L.jpg)

How many of those are not Trudeau? I'm guessing the Nazi one and the hunk on the chair one?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on October 15, 2019, 07:48:15 PM
https://twitter.com/getfiscal/status/1184244746358870017
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on October 16, 2019, 12:13:57 AM
https://twitter.com/commoonist/status/1184277184904597505
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on October 16, 2019, 04:18:06 AM
I'm discovering that some people on Twitter who identify in their profiles as anarchists but only ever tweet about electoral politics may in fact just be democratic socialists. Or simply Democratic Party members.

Imagine their embarrassment when they find out!

spoiler (click to show/hide)
I always intended on posting this in here. You saw no edits elsewhere.
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on October 16, 2019, 05:44:52 PM
https://twitter.com/turing_police/status/1184584114298654725
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on October 16, 2019, 06:10:25 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHSPc73qFYc
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on October 16, 2019, 06:15:45 PM
curly, can I get summary before I spend 24 minutes listening to this? I will anyway, just want to know what I'm getting into.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on October 16, 2019, 06:22:07 PM
The antagonistic class conflict portions of Marxism do not reflect the current state of things (not to say that exploitation doesn't exist), which necessitates an anti-capitalism coalition that is more than a monolithic working class.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: toku on October 16, 2019, 07:33:40 PM
https://twitter.com/turtlekiosk/status/1184512512198356994
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on October 17, 2019, 12:55:24 AM
wtf im a socialist now?

https://twitter.com/OfficialSPGB/status/1184109900261146626

https://twitter.com/OfficialSPGB/status/1184213118861369346

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EG8rja6XkAEZ45d.png:large)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on October 17, 2019, 01:03:18 AM
https://twitter.com/OfficialSPGB/status/947889329321455616

https://twitter.com/OfficialSPGB/status/975687071338827777

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DSnmkiFX0AAC5Th.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Joe Molotov on October 17, 2019, 01:09:48 AM
All these smooth-brain tweeters getting btfo by actual socialism, you love to see it.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on October 18, 2019, 05:43:21 PM
https://twitter.com/dickophrenic/status/1185251900897267713

https://twitter.com/dickophrenic/status/1185253330173485057

https://twitter.com/HarrisonCLee/status/1185279852741644290

:dead :dead :dead
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on October 18, 2019, 06:09:58 PM
benji come get your people
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on October 18, 2019, 06:21:34 PM
Apparently this is a somewhat well known cult in Austin. Texas... here I come.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on October 19, 2019, 01:05:08 PM
https://twitter.com/yanisvaroufakis/status/1185587520156962816
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on October 19, 2019, 01:09:38 PM
The IMF's board is decided by financial contribution :lol the only takeover happening anytime soon is a corporate one.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on October 19, 2019, 01:36:02 PM
Not that Nintex tier fanfiction or Bernie worship is the way to do it but I think there's always space for left criticism of the progressive vision. And I think it's worth being skeptical of institutional change from within. Look at what Trump has done to the CFPB during his tenure, or, yeah, what Senate progressives consistently have to sacrifice to their party.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on October 19, 2019, 01:45:57 PM
https://twitter.com/JohnDelaney/status/1185606122520092672


Is this Praxis?

 :isthis
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on October 19, 2019, 01:52:44 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/2yEz9Tq.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on October 19, 2019, 03:16:30 PM
Since Argentina and Ecuador are shaking off the yoke of global finance capital, let's see what's happening next door in the free market paradise of Chile.

Quote
Chile has declared a state of emergency following riots that have engulfed the capital city of Santiago in recent days, Bloomberg reported.

Soldiers and military vehicles patrolled the streets Saturday to restore order as authorities assessed the damage from what has been described as the worst rioting in the city in decades.

More than 150 police officers have been hurt, 19 subway stations burned, and buses were set on fire and stores looted among the chaos which saw law enforcement unleash tear gas on the rioters.

also they set a power company's hq on fire

(https://i.redd.it/eknsf1cf9it31.png)

:leon
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: toku on October 19, 2019, 03:51:17 PM
https://twitter.com/FoldableHuman/status/1185462476613111808
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on October 19, 2019, 07:08:29 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/wcmvOGs.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on October 19, 2019, 08:01:31 PM
https://twitter.com/OnThisDayBA/status/1185676293381206016

 :tocry
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on October 19, 2019, 11:15:47 PM
Apparently this is a somewhat well known cult in Austin. Texas... here I come.

you've exposed your antirevolutionary character, shosta

Quote
On October 12, a contingent of anti-revisionist combatants confronted a public meeting of the Kansas City chapter of the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA). Online propaganda from the DSA and their supporters has tried to portray the event as a brutal attack on the elderly, but in reality, a DSA member who attacked a woman combatant was repelled, taking multiple blows that left him bloodied and sent to the hospital.

Only two local DSA chapter leaders and two other members who were helping to set up for the event were present when the militant activists blocked the door to the venue and made their way inside.

Upon entry, a speech was read by one of the revolutionaries detailing the rotten nature of DSA’s practices locally and nationally, as well as how the struggle against fascism must include confronting social-fascism, as revisionism is the enemy of genuine socialism.

The charges made against DSA were that nationally they have had police union organizers in elected positions of leadership, that they act as foot soldiers for the imperialist Democratic Party, and that they are a revisionist formation that is aiming to corral the working class under the wing of the bourgeoisie in the name of socialism by encouraging participation in the bourgeois electoral farce.

During the speech, propaganda materials and the projector were confiscated by the revolutionaries, DSA leadership making no attempt to stop them. “Revolution’s not for play, down with the DSA!” and “DSA will never win, social democracy is fascism’s twin!” were chanted as the event supplies were taken.

It was at this point that a local activist, Carl, who has been kicked out of another organization for defending sexual abusers and is known for trying to publicly expose the identities of communists, rushed at the combatants attempting to reclaim his propaganda yelling, “This is a safe space!”

He threw the first punch, targeting one of the woman revolutionaries, but was immediately beaten back by the combatants, while one DSA leader tried to defend him. The brawl broke out again when Carl grabbed another revolutionary and tackled him to the ground. The revolutionaries rallied and freed their comrade, and Carl was left bloodied along with the remnants of his propaganda strewn on the floor.

 

Greg Mueller, another of the local DSA leaders, called the director of the space to rush to the scene, while Kansas/Missouri Dream Alliance (KSMODA), who were holding a DACA clinic next door called the police, showing their bourgeois character.

KCDSA, Carl, and his wife Brianna, have subsequently crafted an online counterpropaganda effort to blur the real contradictions that led to this action, painting the actions against Carl as as “attacking the elderly” and referring to him as a “disabled veteran.” KCDSA traffics in identity opportunism when convenient to their cause.

Before the skirmish, the revolutionaries had made it clear that the reason for their disruption and confiscation of materials was due to the social-fascist nature of DSA. Carl targeted a woman revolutionary and the other revolutionaries responded accordingly. The primary contradiction was between communists and revisionists, and necessary force was used to repel the man who had singled out a woman to attack.

The local branch in Kansas City (KCDSA) has misled the masses into think that the fight for socialism amounts to little more than hosting book clubs, film screenings, and ineffectual rallies. KCSDA has served as a magnet for cast-off activists and protest hoppers, as well as doing the leg work of local Democratic candidates.

The DSA acts as a conveyor belt for bringing bourgeois ideology to the masses and attempts to organize them behind the party of capitalism with a leftist veneer. The historical antifascism that they gathered to celebrate was not organized through “left unity” or by revisionists like themselves, but by genuine Communist Parties that took up arms against fascists and correctly identified social democracy as social-fascism and combatted it ideologically, politically, and militarily. A real antifascist day of unity cannot include revisionists. Democratic socialism, like all forms of revisionism, poses the utmost danger to the struggle for revolution.

When revisionists are wounded, as they were last weekend in Kansas City, even observers who are otherwise critical of the DSA may cringe, appalled by the violence that took place. And yet many of these observers, for all of their nonviolent protests and online comments, have not managed to deal any serious blows to the revisionism which has clamped down on socialist revolution in the US for most of the past century, which has kept workers exploited, nations oppressed, and the masses downtrodden.

To those who side with the bourgeoisie, the images of blood from last Saturday are disturbing, but to revolutionaries, what happened is fine. Revisionism will not magically disappear on its own. It caters to the least oppressed among the masses and seeks to dupe the rest by parading counterfeit socialism. Saturday’s bloodshed stains this charade; its forgery slowly unmasked as revolutionaries wage a merciless struggle against revisionism and opportunism.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on October 20, 2019, 01:17:18 AM
https://twitter.com/benjancewicz/status/1185663349696225282
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on October 20, 2019, 03:25:42 AM
damn, the blur
but the most pressing thing is the authenticity, is it an ice axe and was it the real trotsky thumper?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on October 20, 2019, 06:02:14 AM
Listened to the Zizek Chapo and it was kind of boring. He reiterated a lot t of his recent tirades on game of thrones, Greta thunberg, Trump etc. And then of course made the point multiple times that the left needs to shoot for Trump voters and Bernie Sanders is the only one that can do that. 

If they weren't cowards they'd have let Don have a full episode on the labor aristocracy and settler colonialism, with Amber on the episode.

:zzz
i hate so much my cunt face i don't watch my videos  :dead
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on October 20, 2019, 12:24:15 PM
https://twitter.com/MattBruenig/status/1185589194023952385
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on October 20, 2019, 06:46:02 PM
https://twitter.com/isgoodrum/status/1185776869611732993
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on October 20, 2019, 06:54:30 PM
https://twitter.com/HeerJeet/status/1185745507903250432
https://twitter.com/JakeMGrumbach/status/1185765146611707904

Tankies are amazing.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on October 20, 2019, 07:16:01 PM
Old article, but I thought it was good and made me want to read Zak Cope more.

https://monthlyreview.org/2015/07/01/imperialism-and-the-transformation-of-values-into-prices/
I'm going to pick this book up. You should, too.

https://monthlyreview.org/product/value-chains/

Recommendations by John Smith (Imperialism in the Twenty-First Century), Prabhat and Utsa Patnaik, and karakand's favorite, Jason Hickel
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on October 20, 2019, 07:48:17 PM
So... this year the "Nobel" Prize in Economics went to some economists who pioneered quick, randomized trials of small scale interventions in impoverished areas (like treating intestinal parasites in Kenyan children to improve school attendance) in order to find the most effective policies. When I heard this on NPR I almost lost my shit. This article explains how fucked up this is a lot better than I could: https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/oureconomy/impoverished-economics-unpacking-economics-nobel-prize/

summary:
- the academic establishment prioritizes "poverty alleviation" over institutional analysis and systemic change
- fetishizes a specific methodological practice which has limited utility to economics at large
- awards a group of economists for what ultimately amounts to a technical tweak while we're in the middle of broad systemic crises and total theoretical failure of macroeconomics

this kind of thing always reminds me of Chomsky's "buying the experts" part of propaganda, where academic institutions are funded by the ruling class and consequently pump out nothing but ideological materiel for it.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on October 20, 2019, 09:54:52 PM
https://twitter.com/WSJ/status/1186029344944250888
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on October 20, 2019, 09:56:34 PM
FACT CHECK: only labor can produce value.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on October 21, 2019, 01:04:29 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Lh1jdVW.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on October 21, 2019, 04:26:09 AM
https://twitter.com/Zinvor/status/1186080609891954689

 :dead
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on October 22, 2019, 12:31:19 AM
https://twitter.com/cooly_roc/status/1186259257391538176
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on October 22, 2019, 08:24:36 AM
policy brief on AI in the EU: https://www.ecfr.eu/page/-/machine_politics_europe_and_the_ai_revolution.pdf (https://www.ecfr.eu/page/-/machine_politics_europe_and_the_ai_revolution.pdf)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on October 23, 2019, 04:19:49 PM
https://twitter.com/Slasher/status/1186861461026623488
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on October 23, 2019, 10:41:59 PM
https://twitter.com/StopAntisemites/status/1183921919105687552

 :pitbull
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on October 23, 2019, 11:47:17 PM
https://twitter.com/RzstProgramming/status/1187171439431966720
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on October 24, 2019, 01:22:34 AM
https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3034258/shenzhen-turning-its-back-hong-kong-housing-model-favour

"CCP isn't really socialist!"

:trumps
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on October 24, 2019, 03:27:40 PM
https://fox59.com/2019/10/24/125-parking-meters-spray-painted-filled-with-expanding-foam-in-downtown-bloomington

Quote
Until those get here, parking enforcement asks people to use the ParkMobile phone app to pay for parking. Officers said they will not ticket people who park at meters that do not use the parking app.
:dobbs
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on October 24, 2019, 04:14:42 PM
shosta get in here, we got more hate-reading to do https://americanmind.org/features/conservatism-in-the-bronze-age/the-deep-state-vs-the-deep-right/
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on October 24, 2019, 04:15:56 PM
:goty

EDIT: it was pretty bad.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on October 24, 2019, 06:24:47 PM
:dead this gig is amazing


https://twitter.com/ItalySocialists/status/1187045861341171712
https://twitter.com/ArabSocialists/status/1187090767904497664
https://twitter.com/SocialistsWhite/status/1187128001416314882

The replies  :lol :lol
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on October 24, 2019, 07:48:54 PM
https://nplusonemag.com/online-only/online-only/professional-managerial-chasm/ (https://nplusonemag.com/online-only/online-only/professional-managerial-chasm/)

Really liked this piece. Most clear-headed analysis of the current situation on the left I've read.

This piece touched off a somewhat tedious back and forth in leftist circles but this interview (https://www.dissentmagazine.org/online_articles/on-the-origins-of-the-professional-managerial-class-an-interview-with-barbara-ehrenreich) with Barbara Ehrenreich (who coined the term PMC) was interesting. Also:

Quote
It didn’t work out. The professor and his wife walked out. First, they denounced me personally—they brought a copy of Mao’s Little Red Book, which they read aloud from, only whenever Mao was denouncing liberals, they would say “Barbara.” It was just bizarre, and it was painful at the same time.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on October 24, 2019, 07:54:27 PM
Quote
It didn’t work out. The professor and his wife walked out. First, they denounced me personally—they brought a copy of Mao’s Little Red Book, which they read aloud from, only whenever Mao was denouncing liberals, they would say “Barbara.” It was just bizarre, and it was painful at the same time.
Quote
I saw similar things going on in other parts of the country. For example, there were fights that would break out in food co-ops—they were called the “Twinkie wars.” People wanted the food co-op to carry the highly processed, no-doubt-bad-for-you foods that they could get in the supermarket. and the more PMC types did not want that.
:lol we're fucked
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on October 24, 2019, 08:46:20 PM
Quote
Ecuador’s indigenous movement said on Wednesday that it paused talks with President Lenin Moreno because of the government’s “persecution” of the group’s leaders since a halt to violent anti-austerity protests.

Jaime Vargas, head of the Confederation of Indigenous Nationalities of Ecuador, or CONAIE, said the group had entered the talks “in good faith,” but an atmosphere of trust did not exist. “We cannot be at the table while they are pursuing us,” Vargas told reporters.
:teehee
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on October 25, 2019, 01:46:56 AM
https://twitter.com/PDChina/status/1187602185644728321
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on October 25, 2019, 02:37:50 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/fMHDeeu.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on October 25, 2019, 12:00:33 PM
https://twitter.com/GIndependent77/status/1187097473434705920
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on October 25, 2019, 08:44:25 PM
I just found out one of the DSA NPC members is literally named "Sauce". No last name. :goty
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on October 26, 2019, 06:10:46 PM
(https://preview.redd.it/ha5vmkplkwu31.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=eab60b1e1018abce9481821c5ac886718b585976)

(https://preview.redd.it/xz6ju7fumxu31.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=a134a772eb8e7225660d0c9ae4d45afb6e3b9c9a)

watching Chilean capitalism burn :aah
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on October 28, 2019, 12:52:26 PM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_October_Revolution

Is this what we're calling it now? :lol
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on October 28, 2019, 02:34:52 PM
The week before the current Chilean protests broke out FT had an interview with the President and his arrogance is pretty amusing in retrospect:

Quote
Determined to preserve his country’s reputation as a beacon of stability and sound economic management in a continent not famous for either, Chile’s billionaire president Sebastián Piñera defines himself as a committed crusader against populism. His fight is an increasingly solitary one.

Latin America’s two biggest economies, Brazil and Mexico, are governed by populists of the right and left respectively; neighbouring Argentina looks set to eject Mr Piñera’s close ally Mauricio Macri and return to Peronism in elections at the end of this month; and pro-reform presidents in Peru and Ecuador are fighting for their political lives.

But Mr Piñera is unbowed, invoking classical myth in his fight against the demagogues. “Ulysses tied himself to a ship’s mast and put pieces of wax in his ears to avoid falling for the . . . siren calls,” the silver-haired 69-year-old leader tells the Financial Times during a conversation at the presidential palace in Santiago. “We are ready to do everything to not fall into populism, into demagoguery.”

Quote
   Closer to home, Mr Piñera is sympathetic to the electoral plight of his neighbour Mr Macri, who polls say will lose his bid for re-election in Argentina by a wide margin on October 27.

“Macri is a good guy,” he insists. “I have been very good friends with him for many years,” dismissing an aide’s suggestion that the remark should not be quoted.

But he is quick to point out the sharp differences between Chile’s consistently well-performing economy and its sickly Argentine neighbour, as well as the generally unhealthy region of which they form a part.

“Look at Latin America,” Mr Piñera said. “Argentina and Paraguay are in recession, Mexico and Brazil in stagnation, Peru and Ecuador in deep political crisis and in this context Chile looks like an oasis because we have stable democracy, the economy is growing, we are creating jobs, we are improving salaries and we are keeping macroeconomic balance . . . Is it easy? No, it’s not. But it’s worth fighting for.”
Also because Benji has infected me with his curse I now read the comments section and while the FT one is pretty level headed as far as comments sections go they hate the Chilean protestors. Guess it's hard to see the faults in the gold standard of neoliberalism.
Quote
The headline is a comic bravado from a politician that in his first term kowtowed to the left and opened Chile political system to populism with its ambiguous policies that damaged competition and private initiative and his inability to stand firm to oversized demands for social freebies. Populism is already well entrenched in this small country with limited resources, partly because its elites and workers have long seen themselves as the Europeans of Latin America and deserving of the same social largesse of countries with a multiple of its per capital income. Once again, as those international meetings approach, the government propaganda machine will harp on Chilean hollow exceptionalism.
Quote
You seem to have mixed up the Chilean case with Argentina and Uruguay....Chile is different; its economy has strongly diverged form its undisciplined,  sleazy  neighbours since the mid 1980's
Quote
   This article is about Chile, but the authors should limit their use of 'populism' to 'economic populism', as their reference to Brazil as 'governed by populists of the right' is highly misleading.  Brazil is currently implementing what is arguably the MOST AMBITIOUS ECONOMIC LIBERALIZATION program on the PLANET! Brazil's economic policy is NOT POPULIST!

Brazil should be the real focus for anyone analyzing the South American continent. The nation is 10X+ larger than Chile, with a 200+ million population, compared to Chile's 20 million. Chile is a reference, a model, a blueprint, an example for the region and Brazil's current administration absolutely relies on its precedent policies to guide its current reforms. Brazil's economic liberalization program is far-reaching and all-encompassing, including complete tax policy reform, pension system reform, labor market liberalization, central bank monetary policy independence, financial market deregulation, transport/communications market deregulation, large-scale privatization program.

Of course, the real point of this article is to highlight the power of Chile's institutional development and stability, accomplished following decades of difficult policy implementation and associated political negotiation. Countless analysts attribute Chile's success to Pinochet's complete freedom during his dictatorship to implement any economic policy his team wanted, regardless of any resulting social pain and disruption. However, claiming only 'right-wing' administrations can implement economic liberalization programs is absurd.

Populists have their days counted in Latin America, no matter what the Alberto Fernandez'es-of-the-world, or the AMLO's of-the-world claim. Objective realism, NOT the 'magical realism' of legendary authors, Gabriel Garcia Marquez and Borges, is the name of the game now in Latin America. Strongmen, nationalists, and economic populists do NOT have a good track record enhancing prosperity and development.

The best part is the username. In this section we have Oswald Spengler, Robespierre, and Diogenes the Realist.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on October 28, 2019, 02:41:52 PM
(https://preview.redd.it/ha5vmkplkwu31.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=eab60b1e1018abce9481821c5ac886718b585976)

(https://preview.redd.it/xz6ju7fumxu31.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=a134a772eb8e7225660d0c9ae4d45afb6e3b9c9a)

watching Chilean capitalism burn :aah
in california, capitalism burns you!  ;)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on October 28, 2019, 07:00:46 PM
https://www.thecut.com/2019/10/did-emma-sulkowicz-mattress-performance-get-redpilled.html?utm_medium=s1&utm_campaign=thecut&utm_source=tw
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on October 28, 2019, 07:48:59 PM
Quote
Did Emma Sulkowicz Get Redpilled?
Quote from: first paragraph
"This story starts with me being on Tinder,” Emma Sulkowicz explains. “I don’t have TV, so all I can do is swipe left and right on men.” It’s mid-afternoon, and we’re in a deserted Vietnamese restaurant in downtown Manhattan, near the on-ramp to the Williamsburg Bridge. Sulkowicz is telling me about the “political journey” she’s lately been on, a listening tour of ideological positions that she’s always considered too right-wing to engage: centrists, conservatives, libertarians, and whatever Jordan Peterson is — various and sundry souls that Jezebel has canceled, whose names chill dinner conversation across progressive New York. Sulkowicz hasn’t been redpilled; she’s still a feminist and an advocate for survivors of sexual assault. What’s changed is her posture. “Even if I disagree with this person,” she says, “it doesn’t have to piss me off.”
well, that was a freebee

comments
Quote
All these ‘new friends’ just happen to be conservative and libertarian men who have mansplained the meaning of true happiness to her ( it no longer involves blue hair or art, but does involve the National Review) If you can’t beat em, join em, I guess? just so long as her privileged little ass stays on the radar, even as a mascot. At least she’s still trendily gender-fluid so she can keep her hand in if she decides that proclaiming this all a troll is more lucrative and personally beneficial. How nice to have the privilege for all this!
Quote
By the way, Emma, most of us who gained much success in adulthood (raising hand) didn't wait until the age of 27 to "make some decisions for myself and decide what kind of adult I want to be." Good luck. You'll need it. Meantime, better find a day job.
Quote
She wasn't able to translate her activism and porn into her preferred career in left wing advocacy. So now she's a free agent seeing who else she can front so she doesn't have to work for a living.
Quote
And so what? What present context makes this person’s pedestrian philosophical enquiry of possible interest to anyone beyond her social/professional circle? She has made no recent art, written no book, is not running for office. Add that the opinions given are neither deep or revelatory...WHY?

#reclaimingmytime
:yikes
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on October 28, 2019, 07:52:35 PM
Quote
last month, she started a full-time, four-year master’s program in traditional Chinese medicine

looks like more than one of us is going back to school!  :heart
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on October 28, 2019, 09:48:57 PM
someone be COPING about their eyes

https://twitter.com/salesses/status/1186321878954237953

pull yourself up by your white privilege bootstraps you dirty po*r

https://twitter.com/MorganJerkins/status/1186298890611580930
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on October 28, 2019, 09:53:59 PM
(https://external-preview.redd.it/e9RgyOw5qY90pWnZIOzcu6plUXsUyJRaEMfA73ylwps.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=ba16c9121a0fbe9086013ff6c508fbd47faee057)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on October 28, 2019, 09:58:14 PM
First tweet made me think more about how much literature is printed on WHITE paper reinforcing the notion that people of color are imposing themselves on the natural state of the "page" like the text does.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on October 28, 2019, 10:37:42 PM
https://twitter.com/nataliesurely/status/1188912065148309505

https://twitter.com/freedaaron/status/1188910185504542721

https://twitter.com/rebeccagorena/status/1188947357712424960

more tweets
https://twitter.com/DavidKlion/status/1188889400345812999

https://twitter.com/shutupjaya/status/1188895771531399168

https://twitter.com/DavidAstinWalsh/status/1188904139566112768

https://twitter.com/lkherman/status/1188924141203869704

https://twitter.com/sansdn/status/1188913457002762240

https://twitter.com/RyanHoulihan/status/1188880041356214272

https://twitter.com/saddy_issues/status/1188934671473754116

https://twitter.com/praisegodbarbon/status/1188909717290192896
[close]

https://twitter.com/asselerationist/status/1188904890346672128

 :fbm
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on October 28, 2019, 11:37:14 PM
https://twitter.com/tabatatesser/status/1188061650013904896
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on October 29, 2019, 01:46:32 AM
https://www.reddit.com/r/swoletariat/
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on October 29, 2019, 02:00:17 AM
I just read those two PMC pieces and I have to say I had an annoying benji smirk at all the talk about the idea of a new class being discovered in late 1970s by the Ehrenreichs and "neoconservatives" even if Press did manage to mention James Burnham at one point in a question that also involved Richard Spencer and Tucker Carlson.

Bakunin and Marx literally argued about it at the First. Michels was so fond of his iron law that he became a fascist to help implement it. Popper and Hayek independently came up with their own version of the idea in about the same year and so convinced Keynes it was one of the few things he admitted to changing his mind on. Eisenhower's "-industrial complex" speech is arguably about the emerging PMC. Just none of them discussed it in a Marxist format, especially adhering to the Rule of Two (https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Rule_of_Two) as discovered in the prophetic visions, so the Left ignored it for decades especially when the Party Line was in force, even when Dilas wrote a book literally named it cribbing Trotsky he adhered to the rule. (Although to be fair he was largely describing the Soviet and Yugoslav experiences. And he totally was not Party Line.) "Neoconservatives" were coming into the same ideas at the same time because they were coming out of the same failure to launch that kneecapped The New Left for so long.

Also the end of that first article (chasm) was kinda wild at how many words it used to avoid saying "if not Sanders, we must get Warren" specifically. Also the multiple steps pairing down the disparate class interests and conflicts to fit into one large class with a single universal goal (shockingly "the end of human capital") was enjoyable. Was most disappointed in the lack of analysis regarding the colonialism involved in the Sanders and Warren campaigns holding events in places that once were Native American lands along with the refusal of the working class (either PMC or not) to understand their role in this continued exploitation and the necessity of immediate revolution until which they cannot be considered true allies of the actual revolutionary proletariat.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on October 29, 2019, 02:40:47 AM
Eisenhower's "-industrial complex" speech is arguably about the emerging PMC.

no it's not
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on October 29, 2019, 02:51:01 AM
Of course it can be examined that way unless you intend to discard that entire section:
Quote from: Dwight D. Eisenhower
Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But now we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense; we have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Added to this, three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security more than the net income of all United States corporations.

This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.

Akin to, and largely responsible for the sweeping changes in our industrial-military posture, has been the technological revolution during recent decades.

In this revolution, research has become central; it also becomes more formalized, complex, and costly. A steadily increasing share is conducted for, by, or at the direction of, the Federal government.

Today, the solitary inventor, tinkering in his shop, has been overshadowed by task forces of scientists in laboratories and testing fields. In the same fashion, the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. For every old blackboard there are now hundreds of new electronic computers.

The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present and is gravely to be regarded. Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientifictechnological elite.

It is the task of statesmanship to mold, to balance, and to integrate these and other forces, new and old, within the principles of our democratic system -- ever aiming toward the supreme goals of our free society.

Another factor in maintaining balance involves the element of time. As we peer into society's future, we -- you and I, and our government -- must avoid the impulse to live only for today, plundering, for our own ease and convenience, the precious resources of tomorrow. We cannot mortgage the material assets of our grandchildren without risking the loss also of their political and spiritual heritage. We want democracy to survive for all generations to come, not to become the insolvent phantom of tomorrow.
As she notes, the Ehrenreichs were members of what Eisenhower terms the "scientifictechnological elite" rather than the working class.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on October 29, 2019, 02:59:57 AM
thank you for posting a quote to support my conclusion it is very kind of you
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on October 29, 2019, 03:05:07 AM
a quote to support my conclusion

no it's not
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on October 29, 2019, 03:36:22 AM
I'd have to read Ehrenreich more to be certain of this but it seems to me that Eisenhower's "scientifictechnological elite" would certainly be a part of the PMC, but only a part, and Eisenhower wasn't talking about the broader class grouping in the way she was (which tbf is so broad that it's hard to hold together). And perhaps most importantly is that Ehrenreich is framing this group in terms of how it functions within and contributes to the reproduction of capitalism, which Eisenhower wasn't. Of course it isn't a truly novel concept but I sort of doubt Ehrenreich is really claiming that she went on safari and made contact with this previously undiscovered tribe of managers, academics, engineers, etc.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on October 29, 2019, 03:55:53 AM
Ehrenreich isn't saying it, but both authors work via the assumption because their canon (and focus) is internal Left spaces. Eisenhower's intent and framing is of course not close to the same, nor were the others I mentioned, but the emergence of a "new class" with increasing power in the post-war periods was a heavy focus, but like everything else, the "mainstream" of elite thought didn't really care* until the upheavels of the 1960s and 1970s when it suddenly noticed that people still had problems. Ehrenreich mentions this in her very first anecdote in which the professors didn't notice until well after the working class members. Academia and journalism's experience came in extremely different circumstances and on common ones through different approaches on things like civil rights, than did the white working class' major changes through inflation, the rise of Germany/Japan and then civil rights from their side.

I think the one piece does harm to its own argument about the class similarities when it spends so much time noting that the PMC must suffer economically and essentially fall out of the class entirely to achieve solidarity with the working class and then somehow then convince the remaining members of the threat to their own well-being despite having remained in the class. There's way too many steps to both uphold and then also at the same time try to downplay the PMC theory in the same way it concedes the irrelevance of electoral politics while spending all its time on two small fractions of one larger party in electoral politics.

*
Eisenhower's speech, to maintain the cowardly obsessive's focus on what was a popular example of the commonality of a concept in the era, was seen as a weird last message from a possibly senile man rather than a relevant and respected analysis or even the common sense that it became in many circles by the time his Vice President was President... it wasn't until the 1990s that Eisenhower began to be rated as anything above a poor President who just golfed by most historians. By then it was accepted as a prescient warning.
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on October 29, 2019, 10:07:19 AM
thank you for posting a quote to support my conclusion it is very kind of you
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eisenhower%27s_new_class_analysis (https://www.stopbullying.gov/)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Joe Molotov on October 29, 2019, 11:38:29 AM
(https://external-preview.redd.it/e9RgyOw5qY90pWnZIOzcu6plUXsUyJRaEMfA73ylwps.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=ba16c9121a0fbe9086013ff6c508fbd47faee057)

Blue on Black   -->>>> Can't read shit
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on October 29, 2019, 01:25:02 PM
pretty easy to do when bernie is also a capitalist :smug

TOP OF THE PAGE, BITCHESSSSS
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on October 29, 2019, 02:19:58 PM
how to come out to your family as bernisexual and where your penchant for the blood of minorities came from
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on October 29, 2019, 02:38:53 PM
I think benji is right that these two claims:
- that it's necessary to pursue the PMC's support as a class (and not just the skillset of its individual members) and
- that the PMC's primary motivation is its own aspirations of self-preservation and, yes, control
are fundamentally at odds with one another and so it's worth asking if solidarity is even possible.

Yeah, curly, the "scientifictechnological elite" is only a part of the class in question but isolating it specifically points out some of the contradictions in the concept/strategy. For one thing, the ideal society for this class is the technocratic/meritocratic ideal, one where they are no longer subservient to finance capital for survival but are still the Masters of Everything and justly compensated. I think Seattle is the perfect microcosm of technocracy - you could replace Jeff Bezos with a democratically bureaucratically controlled Gosbank and it would still be the same hell... but everyone is technically "proletariat" now so revolution achieved :smug

The appeal to a "slowly disappearing" professional class is a fruitless effort because it's not slowly disappearing - some jobs are falling into ruin but new and different careers are coming into view all the time. The amount of highly paid professionals is exploding, just look at the change in income distribution over time (and for everyone else, the main issue is not income but cost of living caused by housing shortages). This has inherent limitations like the wealth-inequality stagnation rot the global economy is suffering from right now but the professional class views the bourgeois law of distribution as a just order and it will never not view it that way. What Barbara sees as class allies are really only the ones that are in frequent contact with the despoiled masses (the nurses, the journalists, teachers, social workers, gamers and so on) and it's this direct interaction that makes them allies, not their tenuous membership of a withering middle class. The bankers, tech workers, engineers, and professional managers have everything to lose and nothing to gain from socialism (specifically: there would be more people employed in these professions but their incomes would take a huge hit). That is what makes them the new reactionary middle class, just like the petty artisan was.



to undermine myself a little, and since we're all contributing historical visions of societal development through new-class analysis (dialectics really is immortal science :rejoice), Schumpeter also noticed something like this and predicted that capitalism produces an army of intellectuals* that is increasingly hostile to the capitalist order and is also self-proletarianizing because there are too fucking many of them, so it would be this vanguard of resentfuls that would inevitably overthrow capitalism. He's pretty condescending about this in chapter 8 of his book though, this is what I meant when I told jake that there were people who were committed to a historical materialist argument for socialism but not the moral argument for communism per se. :lol

* he meant this in the very broad sense that people in the 20th century are very educated, they have enough leisure time to reflect on society, and they can express and publicize their resentments. he didn't mean academic intellectuals of staggering intelligence like jordan peterson.



as for this:
even when Dilas wrote a book literally named it cribbing Trotsky he adhered to the rule. (Although to be fair he was largely describing the Soviet and Yugoslav experiences. And he totally was not Party Line.)
it's kind of funny that you can give Dilas a pass on making a class analysis specific to stalinist bureaucratic socialism but you won't give the same leeway to barbs doing it for post-war western capitalism. as kara once warned you (http://www.thebore.com/forum/index.php?topic=41489.msg2642315#msg2642315), this might be a stumbling block for your career in contrarian shitposting...
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on October 29, 2019, 03:33:00 PM
https://twitter.com/Ian56789/status/1189184271694483458
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: EchoRin on October 29, 2019, 04:47:57 PM
(https://external-preview.redd.it/e9RgyOw5qY90pWnZIOzcu6plUXsUyJRaEMfA73ylwps.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=ba16c9121a0fbe9086013ff6c508fbd47faee057)

I don't get it. Is the feeling on the left caused by the word on the right? Like X person's exhaustion is caused by Capitalism fatigue?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on October 29, 2019, 05:04:25 PM
(https://i.redd.it/pkaceewxugv31.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/LCvGshe.png)

:rofl
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on October 29, 2019, 05:06:25 PM
NYT Opinion Page is peak boomer.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on October 29, 2019, 08:48:13 PM
Because the PMC is all the rage in these parts, here's Ehrenreich's original essay outlining the term (or part one of it at least):

https://library.brown.edu/pdfs/1125403552886481.pdf (https://library.brown.edu/pdfs/1125403552886481.pdf)

Reading it made me think about the recent wave of teacher strikes, and how they are pitched as (and probably treated favorably because of) being in the public interest.

Also: how the PMC/petty booj split really perfectly describes the divide in the middle class between Republicans and Democrats.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on October 29, 2019, 09:11:44 PM
it's kind of funny that you can give Dilas a pass on making a class analysis specific to stalinist bureaucratic socialism but you won't give the same leeway to barbs doing it for post-war western capitalism
Two points, in order of least important to most important: First, I didn't criticize Ehrenreich specifically for doing this, I criticized the American-Western Left for resisting (and both Press and the author of the N+1 piece for perpetuating) any analysis that didn't subscribe to it. The Ehrenreich's wavered on how to place it but (and as she notes in the interview) were ultimately writing for a Left audience and so conformed their analysis. Second, Dilas lived inside an authoritarian system that suppressed his work and then imprisoned him for like 10-15 years as a "dissident" and only let him write on toilet paper for years AND he was originally writing like 25 years before the Enhrenreich's and "neoconservatives" discovered the New Class for Left canon. They lived in somewhat better circumstances.

My main point of criticism and I see now that I wasn't really clear on this, is that both articles to me came off as still somewhat living in the past because they're still going back to Enhenreich and the PMC as the foundational text. Going to her for the interview was totally fine, but I think part of the blinder they're making (or at least the N+1 author was) in their piece about this supposed "natural alliance" is that they're continuing to try and construct it as "one big happy pile of six billion workers" and the evil ten capitalists and that the PMC's work propping up the system stems entirely from their own exploitation and not their own, new, class interests that diverge from both the traditional white working class and the .1% capitalist class. Not to mention what I consider a multitude of other classes.

There was a piece that I can't find now from a left-anarchist of semi-libertarian bent from around the Occupy era asking if today, should "we" (aka the proletariat) see MUTLI-MILLIONAIRES as allies because you can be someone who works all your life for someone else and basically never really own more than your house and so on, yet become a millionaire quite easily. One example given was I think a good PMC "case" a lawyer who works for a corporate law firm but never becomes a partner. Law firms today employ thousands of these people, they will never become partners, they will never start their own law firm, they rarely take cases of their own accord, they aren't only working for the law firm partner but the corporate partner who is likely some billion dollar corporation fighting with another billion dollar corporation. Instinctively no one would ever consider them an exploited class. And certainly not part of the proletariat.

The N+1 piece does some amusing stuff with this when talking about medical workers, then constantly stopping at nurses, because "doctors" of course never would seem like an employee. But in today's medical system they certainly can be and spend their whole lives in that position much like the lawyer example. The tension does come, as you note, from the point where you're basically either forever kicking these people out until they drop in absolute terms economically, or you're writing in people so broad as to make the terms ultimately useless. The argument was double amusing in that they were doing it to basically say "it's fine to vote for Elizabeth Warren ya know" but, to bring it back around to the interview with Ehrenreich, they're writing for a "Left" audience so they had to throw in three hundred pages of gibberish framed as class analysis.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on October 29, 2019, 09:21:27 PM
you might think doctors wouldn't be interested in radical direct action, but it was a doctor who kicked the shit outta rand paul
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on October 29, 2019, 09:22:25 PM
Rand Paul being a doctor himself, INNER CLASS CONFLICT :ufup
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on October 29, 2019, 09:23:41 PM
rand paul's not a real doctor, he calls himself that as a nickname like his dad and dr j
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on October 29, 2019, 09:25:11 PM
look I'd agree with you on Rand, but his dad is totally a real doctor, OB-GYN, was the only doctor who could deliver babies in the area for a long time that's how he infected all the members of his district at birth with vaccines so they'd vote for him
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on October 29, 2019, 09:26:49 PM
it's kind of funny that you can give Dilas a pass on making a class analysis specific to stalinist bureaucratic socialism but you won't give the same leeway to barbs doing it for post-war western capitalism
The N+1 piece does some amusing stuff with this when talking about medical workers, then constantly stopping at nurses, because "doctors" of course never would seem like an employee. But in today's medical system they certainly can be and spend their whole lives in that position much like the lawyer example.

Gonna call bullshit on this one

The n+1 piece focuses on nurses because they're part of the devalued cohort of the PMC that is becoming radicalized politically. Doctors are largely ignored because they're more secure (although still part of the fabled PMC as the author states in their opening paragraphs) and less susceptible to forming an alliance with the working class.

Also think you're missing the point about the author trying to force a supposed "natural alliance" between the downwardly mobile elements of the PMC and workers as a whole--it's not about collapsing them into a single class identity, it's about creating a coalition of distinct social groupings with enough in common to contest power and achieve political hegemony.  That alliance isn't an inevitable fact of history, but contingent on the efforts of those involved.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on October 29, 2019, 09:30:56 PM
The working class is going to betray them for Romney-Gabbard.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on October 29, 2019, 09:35:51 PM
would be weird to write a piece about the current state of organizing from the left in the US and not shout out teachers and nurses
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on October 31, 2019, 02:25:39 PM
I'm triggered that he used an image from The DENNIS System and not from the episode in which they create a self-sustaining economy like Dave & Busters.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyxxE1AcUSM
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on October 31, 2019, 02:29:18 PM
There aren’t any good options for hardcover. used copies of the serviceable A.V. Miller translation in paperback are relatively cheap but apparently the bindings horrible. The di Giovanni is effectively the standard English edition right now and there’s a pdf of it you can google. You won’t get anything out of the science of logic if you don’t also read a good amount of the secondary literature too. Which means you’re gonna need to become conversant in the different camps of Hegel interpretation (there’s really only two or three you need to especially worry about with the science of logic). the encyclopedia logic is just the science of logic in outline for his students so starting there would be a good idea. but definitely read the sep entry on Hegel if you haven’t already. And skim the one on idealism.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on October 31, 2019, 03:00:30 PM
Beiser’s book on German idealism is great and his routledge one on Hegel is a great entry point. I was gonna recommend both before you mentioned them. Pinkards one on German idealism and a couple of the chapters in his Hegel biography (which should also be a pdf somewhere last time I checked) are a good balance to beisers more metaphysical reading. The intro to the di Giovanni is also a good look into the anti-metaphysical reading (but his is a little idiosyncratic).
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on October 31, 2019, 04:07:52 PM
seconding rec on beiser, iirc it does a good job covering kant too though it's like 800 pages, pinkards book is half that
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on October 31, 2019, 04:09:47 PM
this reminds me, i want to get deleuze's book on kant
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on October 31, 2019, 04:38:01 PM
Also, beiser’s German Idealism explicitly doesn’t cover Hegel, fyi. There are also some relevant Cambridge companions and histories that’d be pretty useful too. Don’t buy them though. go through a library.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on October 31, 2019, 10:42:59 PM
Quote from: SCMP
Shenzhen is experimenting with a “party and technology” development model as it aims to become a “socialist model city”. The city, which is known for its technology industry, was told by Beijing in August to find “the best modern governance practices that promote high quality and sustainable development so it can be held up as an example of civilised society of law and order where people enjoy a high degree of satisfaction”.

“We will be the world’s first modern powerhouse not built on the road of capitalism, but by practising socialism with Chinese characteristics. The leadership of the Communist Party of China is the most essential feature of socialism with Chinese characteristics.”
Ok... what does that mean?

Quote
Speaking on the sidelines of the recent World Internet Conference in Wuzhen in Zhejiang province, a Shenzhen official, who declined to be identified because he is not authorised to speak on the issue, said the city began its big data and smart city plan in 2013.

The goal then was “collecting as much data as possible, and mining the data deeply to provide useful information to leaders for the management of any potential risks and the provision of public services for people’s convenience”, he said.

“This is one of our most concrete answers to the leadership’s call to modernise our governance system and capability.”

Shenzhen established a Government Services and Data Management Bureau to handle big data collection and analysis in February, he said.

As well as data sets covering populations and the economy, the official said Shenzhen had also built “thematic databases” that could empower officials who handled social disputes and public grievances.

As party of the city’s plan, Shenzhen also launched its “Weaving Net Project” in 2013 under which it divided the city into thousands of data zones and designated an “information collector” to each zone.

The system also uses 2 million surveillance cameras dotted about the city.

Li Shihua, head of the video division of the city’s public security bureau, said at a forum in August that big data and video analysis were widely used.

“About 80 per cent of criminal cases are solved with the help of video surveillance. Almost all criminal cases can be solved in 24 or 48 hours with the help of these technologies,” he said.
Ah, I understand now. Socialism is about mass monitoring of the civilian population.

Quote
Shenzhen is also the first Chinese city to launch a “party building measurement indicator” backed by big data and artificial intelligence. Hu Jin, who runs the project said: “Now we have a standardised, scientific and quantifiable method for measuring the quality of party building.”
:science

Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on November 02, 2019, 02:21:19 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/omD5oVE.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on November 05, 2019, 10:56:01 PM
https://twitter.com/MaoistRebelNews/status/1190083980705640449

https://twitter.com/MaoistRebelNews/status/1190084058891608064
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on November 06, 2019, 03:47:44 AM
cry with me kara https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/when-tax-strategies-become-problematic-for-firms-and-investors/
Quote
One of my best anecdotes [came while I was] presenting this paper in an academic setting. There had been a managerial accountant in the room. She had done some cost accounting and said, “We had one manufacturing facility that had 42 different cost centers in it only for tax planning purposes. The cost centers could facilitate the transfer pricing and where goods and what costs went.” That was not only international, but also for state-level purposes and generating certain tax credits. What this paper is trying to capture is all that complexity that goes on merely for getting a good tax [rate].
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on November 06, 2019, 01:17:01 PM
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/ne8ydm/brexit-is-helping-revive-republican-violence-in-northern-ireland
Quote
But the political violence that once defined the movement began to rear its ugly head again in 2012, when a paramilitary group calling itself the New IRA emerged, seeking to unite dissident Republicans under a single banner, and referring to themselves simply as the IRA. They have steadily grown since, absorbing members of other dissident groups into the fold while launching more and more attacks.

Key to their growth, experts warn, is Saoradh, an upstart political party out of Derry.

Just over a mile from where McKee was murdered, a uniform row of red-brick residential houses is broken by the green and white of Junior McDaid House that comprises Saoradh’s headquarters.

Formed in 2016, the group bills itself a political answer for those who feel abandoned by Sinn Féin, the left-wing Irish Republican party, and are still suffering from poverty and alienation.

“We felt the need for a vacuum to be filled,” Paddy Gallagher, Saoradh’s 27-year-old national press officer, told VICE News.

The group claims to provide a welfare assistance program to help those struggling to get government benefits. It collects food donations and distributes them to locals in need. It even established a youth wing, called Éistigí, in a bid to recruit teenagers looking for help.
:phil

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Quote
The Police Service of Northern Ireland, meanwhile, have called their headquarters in Derry “the mouth and the hub” of the New IRA.

"People can think what they like,” Gallagher told VICE News, in a room filled with replica firearms and military uniforms. “Saoradh has stated multiple times that we have absolutely no link to the Irish Republican Army.”

But the murals that cover Junior McDaid House appear to undercut the group’s claims. On the outside of the very building where Gallagher uttered these words, there's a mural that simply says: “Join the IRA.”
:dead
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on November 06, 2019, 11:22:09 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/oct/31/bat-faces-landmark-legal-case-over-malawi-families-poverty-wages
Quote
Human rights lawyers are preparing to bring a landmark case against British American Tobacco on behalf of hundreds of children and their families forced by poverty wages to work in conditions of gruelling hard labour in the fields of Malawi.

Leigh Day’s lawyers are seeking compensation for more than 350 child labourers and their parents in the high court in London, arguing that the British company is guilty of “unjust enrichment”. Leigh Day says it anticipates the number of child labourer claimants to rise as high as 15,000. While BAT claims it has told farmers not to use their children as unpaid labour, the lawyers say the families cannot afford to work their fields otherwise, because they receive so little money for their crop.

The case, potentially one of the biggest that human rights lawyers have ever brought, could transform the lives of children in poor countries who are forced to work to survive not only in tobacco but also in other industries such as the garment trade.

striking the heart of the capitalist core :phil :phil :phil
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on November 06, 2019, 11:51:45 PM
Big Dick Wolff's Twitter feed is so good. I don't know why I wasn't following him before.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on November 08, 2019, 01:55:34 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/p4f1HR8.png)

screenshotted because there's no way this stays up :dead
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on November 08, 2019, 10:43:26 PM
https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/the-passion-of-newt-gingrich
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on November 08, 2019, 11:06:05 PM
wow, how could you bernard

https://twitter.com/KevinKlawitter/status/1192436969650831360

left needs no m*n

https://twitter.com/queerBengali/status/1192132153087320065

well???

https://twitter.com/queerBengali/status/1191726718345785345
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on November 08, 2019, 11:15:07 PM
needing to one up the leftist stack by shitting on Hong Kongers to stick it to Americans  :thinking

https://www.reddit.com/r/ShitLiberalsSay/comments/dtq6z5/hong_kong_terrorists_using_americans_as/
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on November 08, 2019, 11:22:32 PM
wow, how could you bernard

https://twitter.com/KevinKlawitter/status/1192436969650831360
Just learned I'm possibly right-of-center on immigration.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on November 08, 2019, 11:23:34 PM
I thought you were an open borders kind of guy
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on November 08, 2019, 11:28:02 PM
Ya, but I would have voted against "immigration reform" in 2007 too, wouldn't "abolish" ICE (rename it back to INS and return it back out of DHS), and probably would have said something similar to whatever Bernie actually said in the latter two examples.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on November 08, 2019, 11:28:52 PM
Plus Julian Castro is just a front for BIG TWIN interests.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on November 09, 2019, 12:24:32 AM
komrades, today we purge the poor and fix racism by killing racists

https://web.archive.org/web/20191106195740/https:/twitter.com/JacksonKernion/status/1191916100402872320?s=20

https://twitter.com/the_moviebob/status/1191555663945707520

I just find his bloodlust a bit entertaining after this oldie

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EIyFyI5WwAAGSEC.jpg)

Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on November 09, 2019, 12:42:43 AM
The Movie Blob has a long history of supporting eugenics.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on November 09, 2019, 01:03:40 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/QYUTQxl.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on November 09, 2019, 10:18:03 AM
Sanders voted against the 2007 bill on explicitly protectionist grounds, and he's described "open borders" as being a trojan horse pushed by the Koch brothers.

My sense is that he mostly took the traditional position of US labor groups on immigration (viewing it as putting downward pressure on the wages of Americans) and as they shifted left so did he. If Kara (pbuh) were with us, he'd have a quip about the labor aristocracy.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on November 09, 2019, 01:58:45 PM
https://twitter.com/profwolff/status/1193215925727547392

Quote
The Economics of Taxing Wealth
- Current proposals by Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren
- How US already taxes wealth (of some, not others)
- How other countries tax wealth
- How US enables/allows wealth to escape taxes
- Redistributing wealth: pros and cons

In connection with Wolff’s discussion of the main topic above, he will also cover the following issues at the November 13, 2019, event:
1. The protest movements in Chile, Lebanon and beyond and how they differ from those in Hong Kong
2. The overdue critique of “libertarian” capitalism

These programs begin with 30 minutes of short updates on important economic events of the last month. Then Wolff analyzes several major economic issues. Our goal is to develop all participants’ understanding and ability to explain current economic events and trends to others. When time permits, we open the floor to questions and comments.

they'll put a youtube video up after, too.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on November 11, 2019, 08:34:58 PM
she is back with more fire for the bernouts

https://twitter.com/queerBengali/status/1194026845651558407
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on November 11, 2019, 10:47:20 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EJJDAaOXYAAIVvd?format=jpg&name=large)

I can't believe getfiscal and karakand post on the same forum of 480 irony poisoned people
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on November 13, 2019, 01:40:27 AM
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/11/protesters-tahrir-square-iraq-191111195848776.html

Quote
Partly hidden behind a high-rise known as the "Turkish Restaurant" and flanked by lower-lying buildings, the location of Tahrir Square makes it a stronghold. At the square, protesters said, they created what the government has been unable to since the 2003 US-led invasion - a functioning pseudo state.

"The people have taken to the streets and achieved what the government couldn't do," said Abdul Jabar, 31, an Iraqi flag draped around his shoulders.

Equipped with a seemingly functional hierarchical structure, water and food, street-sweepers, and prayer rooms, the square offers basic services. These include some that the oil-rich country has struggled to provide Iraqis with, such as healthcare.

Al Kasim al-Abady, a 31-year-old activist, said the rehabilitation of the square and its surrounding areas has been one of the great successes of the uprising.

In the Turkish Restaurant building, a strategic high-rise taken over by protesters on October 25, they have "delivered electricity, water and shelter for hundreds of people who live there", said al-Abady.

In the green heart of the square, barbers give tired demonstrators free hair cuts. Across the road, beneath a flimsy tent, volunteers hand out water and food. A middle-aged man, named Hissam, and his team of 30 provide six free meals a day, including their own home-baked bread. Most of the food is paid out of the volunteers' own pockets, some are donated by other protesters.

Amid the demonstrators are also the poor and hungry of central Baghdad, who have found in the ongoing chaos a place to sleep and eat, as well as medical care.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/11/chile-protesters-reject-government-plan-rewrite-constitution-191111164719422.html
Quote
Interior Minister Gonzalo Blumel announced late on Sunday that the government would move to draw up a new constitution, saying that Congress would be responsible for rewriting the document, which would then be put to a public referendum. [...] A new constitution has been a central demand of protesters, who see the political and social inequalities as a result of the economic model built by Augusto Pinochet, the dictator who ruled Chile from 1973 to 1990.

This constitution, which Chile still has today, created the legal basis for a market-driven economic model that privatised pensions, healthcare and education.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on November 14, 2019, 01:26:07 AM
damn dude you do drugs and have sex? that's pretty crazy
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on November 14, 2019, 01:55:30 AM
On left twitter, sex work brings out more scorchingly hot takes than anything besides maybe MENA politics.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on November 14, 2019, 02:29:44 AM
they also had a tweet playing off disabled prostitutes as being a good thing, radfem reddit was where I saw it

in any case, w/e some of these people are too repulsive to bother thinking about
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BIONIC on November 14, 2019, 08:27:54 AM
Purge the Brooklyn community. The hogs have become feral and need to be culled. :camby

https://youtu.be/Zu3nu6ue2qU
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on November 15, 2019, 05:01:17 PM
(https://preview.redd.it/pse1ffqfnuy31.jpg?width=640&height=809&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=631ed1c33fb7062d0d427cea772905b2de362ba3)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Joe Molotov on November 15, 2019, 05:02:19 PM
 :salute
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on November 15, 2019, 09:34:30 PM
https://hilaryagro.wordpress.com/2019/10/22/marxism-is-amphetamines-biopolitics-is-cocaine-social-science-theories-as-drugs/

Quote
Marxism is amphetamines. Needed to survive, it keeps you going on a daily basis. Without it, you feel exhausted and confused, and eat too much. It makes you want to get up out of your chair and get shit DONE. Works best when blended with others to take the edge off.

 :pitbull
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on November 17, 2019, 02:29:55 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/hjRWFst.png)

:rofl
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on November 17, 2019, 10:33:08 AM
https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/status/1195865827553226755
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on November 17, 2019, 03:54:31 PM
https://twitter.com/Ange_Amene/status/1192869337100455936
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BIONIC on November 17, 2019, 03:58:44 PM
https://twitter.com/ange_amene/status/1120530447082172417

:badass
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on November 17, 2019, 04:13:58 PM
https://twitter.com/willmenaker/status/1194748330796077057



https://twitter.com/willmenaker/status/1194756602374557696
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on November 17, 2019, 04:39:09 PM
demanding Felix Biederman name four women he actually likes :lol

the best fans are the ones who have a love/hate relationship with the material. get over it!
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on November 17, 2019, 05:45:32 PM
https://twitter.com/Ange_Amene/status/1192869337100455936

Well that's escalated .jpg
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on November 17, 2019, 11:30:01 PM
https://twitter.com/Ange_Amene/status/1192869337100455936

Quote
My OPINION OVERRIDES YOURS AT ALL TIMES.

 :nugenix
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on November 17, 2019, 11:48:43 PM
https://twitter.com/ange_amene/status/1120530447082172417

:badass

This is absolutely going in the newsfeed.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on November 18, 2019, 02:48:56 AM
demanding Felix Biederman name four women he actually likes :lol

the best fans are the ones who have a love/hate relationship with the material. get over it!

full of dweebs, if only I cared to use reddit enough to join the cool boys at Nick Mullen's secret place

edit: I realized the context that was a bit of that exchange
missing the original comment by Bruenig which seems to have been deleted, dug around to give some context

(https://preview.redd.it/zf0h87tqdmy31.png?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=7bd6c2ced501c022d00eeadd22e602063dc6c3af)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on November 18, 2019, 07:29:28 PM
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-chile-protests-walmart/with-stores-burned-and-looted-walmart-seeks-police-protection-in-riot-hit-chile-idUSKBN1XS2GC
Quote
Walmart has sought court orders for police protection in protest-wracked Chile after more than 120 of its supermarkets were looted or burned.

The Chilean subsidiary of the U.S.-headquartered retailer (WMT.N) lodged orders with courts in six Chilean cities, saying the attacks on its stores had put its staff’s safety and jobs at risk, “gravely” affected its ability to operate in the country and caused it “enormous economic damage”.

“The state of Chile has failed to fulfill its duty to guarantee public order and internal public security,” it said in court documents submitted on Wednesday and made public on Monday.

:lol foreign capitalists go mask off and just act like they outright own the country's public services.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on November 18, 2019, 09:47:23 PM
king

https://twitter.com/daedaejr/status/1196536767761047553
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on November 18, 2019, 09:49:34 PM
The WASBAPPIN account somehow stands out for having terminal poster brain, even on Twitter.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on November 19, 2019, 11:32:26 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EJxaI-rXkAA2AV3?format=jpg&name=large)

that looks about right
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on November 21, 2019, 12:25:17 AM
I miss Kara  :(

(https://i.imgur.com/XP7CN5n.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/y9ouaQw.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/IpbhbjG.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/zKJt19v.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/s2hdF2c.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/339QWjv.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/8sQ2yVu.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/nMCPkW2.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/yiBPMLA.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/VnNh3AI.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/7IKRtPW.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/DWJfjo3.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/A9tg1NR.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/cSOAIjK.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/C0AqMjX.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/6b1QEfd.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on November 21, 2019, 12:27:58 AM
go raidahs!
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on November 21, 2019, 01:37:24 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/uiRdtsY.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on November 21, 2019, 05:02:58 AM
What government has she overthrown
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on November 21, 2019, 09:01:39 AM
What government has she overthrown

She's still part of the United States, so uh, maybe Bolivia.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on November 21, 2019, 01:21:27 PM
Now, now, let's have some basic respect here.

(https://i.imgur.com/yi205y3.jpg)

spoiler (click to show/hide)
The Jeremy Corbyn is antisemitic campaign is shaking loose all sorts of stuff.
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on November 21, 2019, 01:26:39 PM
spoiler (click to show/hide)
The Jeremy Corbyn is antisemitic campaign is shaking loose all sorts of stuff.
[close]

The most racist person I know in real life currently has "#Together Against Antisemitism" (yes there's a hashtag even though the words are separate) on his FB profile pic.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on November 21, 2019, 10:55:22 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EJxaI-rXkAA2AV3?format=jpg&name=large)

that looks about right
There's an apocryphal story of when Dwight Eisenhower, proletariat revolutionary, was President of Columbia that they were going to place sidewalks and there was a testy fight over where exactly to place them. The wise class philosophe President General told them to wait a year, for the students would trample paths in the grass and that is where the sidewalks should be placed.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Even though that story is fake, this actually was the case at some landgrant schools where the campus expansion outpaced standard planning methods. Buildings were built first, and the infrastructure built after, so they generally used already trodden paths for sidewalks and later roads/parking. There were some rather famous crooked routes at either Missouri or Kansas for a long time.

Michigan State like a decade ago had the administration decide that rather than the long existing roads there should be a grid of four roads only that crossed campus (which is the largest size campus in the nation) and these were the only ones needed as all traffic could flow to them via other means, it became such a disaster that they completely tore up and rebuilt the universities entire road and sidewalk system within 18 months of the plan being finished. Only to do it again because rather than have intersections there were only to be roundabouts, but since the roads were so spaced apart the roundabouts were gigantic and thus consume too much of the total size of campus and so...
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on November 23, 2019, 01:31:32 AM
https://twitter.com/paxthedog/status/1198030907367710720
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on November 23, 2019, 12:10:36 PM
Court philosophy always lags a bit, give them time to catch up!

E:  :lol

Quote
One expects a certain institutional lag. Mainstream economists nowadays might not be particularly good at predicting financial crashes, facilitating general prosperity, or coming up with models for preventing climate change, but when it comes to establishing themselves in positions of intellectual authority, unaffected by such failings, their success is unparalleled.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on November 23, 2019, 04:22:45 PM
https://twitter.com/RetweetWitch/status/1198292519819210752

https://twitter.com/FoodForTrot/status/1198306631865339904
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on November 23, 2019, 04:39:28 PM
https://twitter.com/collinrees/status/1198329446878580737
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on November 25, 2019, 12:28:49 AM
https://twitter.com/walid970721/status/1198651517651304451
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on November 25, 2019, 10:12:50 PM
spoiler (click to show/hide)
The Jeremy Corbyn is antisemitic campaign is shaking loose all sorts of stuff.
[close]

The most racist person I know in real life currently has "#Together Against Antisemitism" (yes there's a hashtag even though the words are separate) on his FB profile pic.

Been meaning to reply to this.

I've been mutuals on social media with maybe a dozen or so nü Labour devotees for a long time. Some of them have become quietist ever since Corbyn was elected head of the party, but some of them have just lost the plot and can never stop posting about him, which means that I've been inundated with the "Jeremy Corbyn is antisemitic" stuff for months. It's made me think a lot.

1. I'm glad that we have an independent identity here in the U.S. One that runs parallel to, and often crosses over with, the State of Israel to be sure, but it's still one that can stand on its own (and has or a long time). As best I can tell British Jewry hasn't been as fortunate, though I should probably account for how small it is to begin with when making this comparison.

2. It's really bizarre seeing people who think that they're good allies spout questionable content all the time. I'm not even talking about the hasbara that they parrot like a child dressing up in their parent's clothes, but just stuff like "I'm qualified to define the exact parameters of what antisemitism *is*." Our gentile allies here tend to be evangelicals who have a very cynical eschatological reason for supporting Israeli actions so I harbor no fantasies about how righteous among the nations they really are, but these are people who legitimately think they're doing good.

3. The only time they talk about antisemitism in the U.S. is when Ilhan Omar says something ill-advised, which really makes their professed status as allies ring hollow after the pogrom at Tree of Life or a president who keeps interesting company, praises certain very fine people, and demands certain actions from the agencies that answer to him. The other day one of them retweeted Hen Mazzig equating the "blood and soil" chant with "from the river to the sea" and I just closed the Twitter app like the Banderas laptop gif.

I don't want them to be filler, and if I'm being perfectly honest I'm agnostic on the whole Corbyn issue but this stuff really sucks, man.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on November 25, 2019, 10:39:01 PM
To draw a flawed analogy, if you told me an American politician was racist I'd be agnostic too unless I had knowledge of some anti-racist actions they'd taken in the past. Obviously Corbyn has a C.V. in that regard, but Dutch squatters in Africa aren't entirely analogous to the diaspora / Israeli dynamic and from my travels I know that the struggle for civil rights for Palestinians attracts all sorts.

Also the British press is utter trash so trying to piece anything together from reporting is mostly a lost cause.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on November 25, 2019, 10:46:11 PM
I admit I am obviously nowhere as intertwined into the specifics of the anti-semetic claims and so on, although when there were some articles a bit back about all the people calling him an anti-semetic monster I was somewhat shocked at how many of the quotes came from "lifelong" Labourites with the other parties comparatively mum on the subject.

Somewhat on topic, I was actually most surprised coming across how seriously and INTENSELY Americans on the "Left" (aka Twitter mostly) are starting to take all this Corbyn stuff. The coming of an election, in another country (that matters unlike Canada) that speaks English, has really ramped it up the last month.

The dude has seemingly like no chance of being anything but opposition and the polls have looked like this for years now. The Tories are apparently running an internal contest to see how low on their totem pole they can go and still lead him by 30 points. The Liberal Dems are the Liberal Dems.

And like you guys said, it's not like Corbyn really says anything all that nutty for someone in his Labour tendency. At least I don't find all that much of it to be. It's more like regular politician flubs than anything I would take as some kind of deep ideological statement.

Yet, this is apparently the major debate of the Global International. Corbyn: For or Against?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on November 25, 2019, 11:13:38 PM
He says without disclaiming that he's been mostly avoiding libertarian or similar websites despite their being good sources for Wank Dad content because the cycle debate has already started and ramped up to include whether or not "true libertarians" should support Trump on impeachment.

For the record and for your amusement, it usually breaks down like this:
Cosmotarians - Support the LP if possible, impeachment is a regular good
"Constitutional" Libertarians - Support Trump because the LP won't enforce the borders if they somehow win, impeachment will let illegals take over
"Lifelong" Libertarians - Support Trump and the GOP because the LP won't enforce the borders, protect us from terrorism or regulate Facebook if they somehow win, impeachment will let the Democrats let illegals take over
Objectivists - Support Trump if only to oppose the Cosmotarians, but are currently too exhausted from trying to get everyone to pay attention to the recent Canadian elections because Objectivists are like 75% Canadian, this is a truth fact; impeachment will let Islamists take advantage of our weak foreign policy
Rothbardians - ongoing existential crisis
Ancaps - voting is immoral, but vote LP purely to spite all of the above; impeach him for violating the Constitution instead, then shrink down to a night watchmen state!
Paulites - Ron Paul 2020 (Dad used to hit homers and never got beat up by his neighbor.) WWRPD?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on November 26, 2019, 12:07:57 AM
I guess I'm seeing more of a sudden very intense interest that I do not think will even exist after December 13, and there's lots of little not-so-subtle proxy warring related to Bernie, the "DSA" vs. "Tankies" Twitter War, etc.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on November 26, 2019, 12:48:02 AM
https://archive.md/nESXY
Quote from: https://www.ft.com/content/4c94809e-0b27-11ea-bb52-34c8d9dc6d84?segmentId=91adc6f0-8387-0702-925f-7e46769f36ab
“How to stop a civil war” says the cover of the latest Atlantic magazine. I can suggest a fix: the international community should intervene in the US. Of course Americans have a right to self-determination but the priority now is saving democracy.

It’s hard to assess the risk of political violence, given the US tradition of everyday gunslinging: the rival candidates for state elections in Montana, who each made ads showing themselves firing rifles at television screens, looked like actors playing Afghan warlords. Still, the recent ethnopolitical terror attacks in El Paso, Pittsburgh and elsewhere were shocking even by US standards.

The much tamer UK needs watching too. Like Americans, Britons have been upgrading their political views into their identities and dismissing opponents as traitors. Both countries now intend to resolve their conflict with winner-take-all elections.

Such scenarios rarely end well, warns former Yemeni government minister Rafat Al-Akhali, a fellow at Oxford’s Blavatnik School of Government. He says: “A lot of people in the regions that we work with thought we had to transfer their experiences of national dialogue to the UK and other countries.” So what should interventions in the US and potentially Britain look like?

Washington used to advocate a set schedule for countries in conflict. A binary election only worsens polarisation. Instead, says Al-Akhali, the first step is power sharing: a transitional government that includes all conflicting sides.

Next comes an Afghan-style loya jirga, or grand assembly, to kick off a national dialogue. Yemen’s brought together political parties, but also youth, women, civil society, southern secessionists and northern Houthi rebels. A US dialogue could look remarkably similar.

Given the death of truth, a South African-style Truth and Reconciliation Commission wouldn’t work in the US. Americans may also need to abandon the polarising impeachment of Donald Trump and let him seek exile in a friendly country: the model could be Ukraine’s kleptocratic pro-Kremlin former president Viktor Yanukovich, now based out of Russia.

The loya jirga writes a new constitution. This would be Britain’s first, and for the US, a much-needed update of its antiquated 1787 document. Japanese jurists could help draft it as a thank you to Americans for writing Japan’s excellent 1947 constitution.

The new text would dispense with vagaries such as “high crimes and misdemeanours”, define presidential corruption and end political control of the judiciary. If it’s undemocratic for the Polish or Hungarian governments to appoint judges, why can the US president do it?

The new constitution must cantonise the US, going way beyond “states’ rights” to neighbourhood rights. The smaller the units of power, the less important becomes the national political conflict. The US’s second republic will also need a new electoral system that favours coalitions instead of winner-takes-all rule.

The new constitution must also tackle foreign election-meddling. Ideally, a non-partisan institution would be put in charge of handling this, but the only one now somewhat trusted across the American divide is the military, and you generally don’t want soldiers in post-conflict transitions.

After Russia’s successes in the US and UK in 2016, half the world will be interfering in the next elections. Indeed, a British support group for India’s ruling Hindu nationalist BJP party boasts of campaigning for the Tories in 48 marginal seats. British Conservatives and US Republicans may welcome the help, but they should realise there’s at least a theoretical possibility that foreign powers might one day shift to their opponents.

In fact, if Russia feels any need to hasten Britain’s break-up and international isolation, it can already choose between Boris Johnson, Jeremy Corbyn, the Brexit party, the Scottish Nationalists, Sinn Féin and Plaid Cymru, while encouraging infighting between Remain parties.

Once the new constitution is signed, it’s time for closely scrutinised elections. Even before the US elections of 2000, the journalist Christopher Hitchens wrote: “The United States loves nothing better than to certify other countries’ ballots as ‘free and fair’, so there can hardly be any principled objection to a delegation of monitors from democratic nations taking up position, pens in hand, as America makes its ‘choice.’”

If only he’d been listened to. The problem is worse today: given gerrymandering and voter suppression, states such as North Carolina and Georgia are no longer full democracies. Tories are learning from Republicans: they’re now planning to make voters show identification, precisely because many poorer Britons don’t have any.

Whoever becomes leader must reach out. Andrew Yang, a no-hope Democratic candidate, has it right: “After I win the . . . election, my plan is to go to the district that voted for me the least in the entire country and say, ‘I know you didn’t support me, but I will be your president too.’”

But let’s not get over-optimistic. At best, intervention will freeze the US’s overlapping ethnic, economic and regional conflicts. The question for the international community then becomes: how much blood and treasure is it willing to expend on a country that may not be ready for democracy?

Simon Kuper is a British author. He writes about sports "from an anthropologic perspective."
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on November 26, 2019, 01:23:14 AM
Now, now, let's have some basic respect here.

(https://i.imgur.com/yi205y3.jpg)

spoiler (click to show/hide)
The Jeremy Corbyn is antisemitic campaign is shaking loose all sorts of stuff.
[close]

reluctant  :shaq
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on November 26, 2019, 01:25:56 AM
He says without disclaiming that he's been mostly avoiding libertarian or similar websites despite their being good sources for Wank Dad content because the cycle debate has already started and ramped up to include whether or not "true libertarians" should support Trump on impeachment.

For the record and for your amusement, it usually breaks down like this:
Cosmotarians - Support the LP if possible, impeachment is a regular good
"Constitutional" Libertarians - Support Trump because the LP won't enforce the borders if they somehow win, impeachment will let illegals take over
"Lifelong" Libertarians - Support Trump and the GOP because the LP won't enforce the borders, protect us from terrorism or regulate Facebook if they somehow win, impeachment will let the Democrats let illegals take over
Objectivists - Support Trump if only to oppose the Cosmotarians, but are currently too exhausted from trying to get everyone to pay attention to the recent Canadian elections because Objectivists are like 75% Canadian, this is a truth fact; impeachment will let Islamists take advantage of our weak foreign policy
Rothbardians - ongoing existential crisis
Ancaps - voting is immoral, but vote LP purely to spite all of the above; impeach him for violating the Constitution instead, then shrink down to a night watchmen state!
Paulites - Ron Paul 2020 (Dad used to hit homers and never got beat up by his neighbor.) WWRPD?

So what flavour are you?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on November 27, 2019, 02:57:30 AM
That FT article is just the JDPON copy pasta. 8)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on November 27, 2019, 06:59:52 PM
good work kara

https://twitter.com/SMuhrine/status/1199553440021667840
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on November 27, 2019, 07:10:38 PM
hit the road, Benjamin P. Wns

https://twitter.com/liz_franczak/status/1179107579038814208

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EF1XkN4WkAA_Wuz.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on November 27, 2019, 07:25:53 PM
good work kara

https://twitter.com/SMuhrine/status/1199553440021667840

I don‘t really know who MovieBob is, but rallying against outsourcing of labor has been a classic Marxist staple for decades. :lol
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on November 27, 2019, 07:27:46 PM
When I think of Benji, I think of unbridled capitalism.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on November 27, 2019, 07:34:24 PM
Personally, I especially like killing Libyans.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on November 27, 2019, 09:14:20 PM
When I think of Benji, I think of unbridled capitalism.

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/299/632/fc5.jpg_orig)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on November 27, 2019, 11:09:24 PM
this went well:

https://twitter.com/the_moviebob/status/1199850018250866688

https://twitter.com/the_moviebob/status/1199852277265321985

https://twitter.com/the_moviebob/status/1199854468042543106
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on November 27, 2019, 11:14:42 PM
https://twitter.com/the_moviebob/status/1199868399645581313
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on November 28, 2019, 01:38:50 AM
Aside from some U.S. tax commentary I don't tweet political stuff, that's just asking for trouble. Always be dissembling.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Plus it lets me float in comically disparate circles because everyone turns off viewing other people's favorites on their timeline.
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on November 29, 2019, 12:29:28 AM
https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/1200278415590535168

https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/1200278788480946178

Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Joe Molotov on November 29, 2019, 01:57:01 PM
https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/1200278788480946178

(https://i.imgur.com/YuOmaJm.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on November 29, 2019, 03:57:35 PM
https://twitter.com/thetrillbillies/status/1200483235261820928
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on November 30, 2019, 03:49:30 PM
(https://i.redd.it/fi2pj1y8ir141.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on November 30, 2019, 04:17:34 PM
https://twitter.com/jacobinmag/status/1200618578703073281

real marxism: demsuccs:: Godard: the guy who did Stepbrothers
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on November 30, 2019, 07:50:06 PM
https://twitter.com/MissOMara/status/1200859299049656320

https://twitter.com/MissOMara/status/1200860521882255360

https://twitter.com/MissOMara/status/1200889469705936897

https://twitter.com/MissOMara/status/1200938854263377920
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on November 30, 2019, 08:08:06 PM
https://twitter.com/DarkSoulsSauron/status/1200795866518433792

 :doge
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Nintex on November 30, 2019, 08:17:36 PM
(https://atkosite.files.wordpress.com/2018/03/img_8965.jpg?w=656)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on November 30, 2019, 09:17:45 PM
https://twitter.com/REALpunknews/status/1200957688181592065
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on December 01, 2019, 02:29:34 PM
https://twitter.com/malscrung/status/1199690877154811904
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on December 02, 2019, 07:01:28 PM
https://twitter.com/jacobinmag/status/1200618578703073281

real marxism: demsuccs:: Godard: the guy who did Stepbrothers
Quote
He recently even joined the Los Angeles chapter of the Democratic Socialists of America, proudly proclaiming on Twitter that “I consider myself a democratic socialist. Always have.” When I ask him why a successful Hollywood filmmaker would do something like that, he looks at me completely shocked, even disappointed: “Why not?”
:badass

Quote
“I went back after I got to know him, and I rewatched the Anchorman movies, and Step Brothers and Talladega Nights,” says Adam Davidson, cocreator of NPR’s “Planet Money” and a frequent collaborator of McKay’s. “I went back and really saw that passionate voice shouting through these funny movies and realized ‘Oh, those were, like, angry, pointed, and brilliant dissections of our culture.’”

Davidson served as an adviser on The Big Short where, despite very different temperaments and politics, he and McKay hit it off. “Our entire first year of collaborating was arguing about trade,” McKay says with a smile. “To his credit, he conceded some points.” Where McKay had the populist fervor, Davidson was trained in economics at the University of Chicago. “[McKay’s] texting me every single day on a huge range of topics about how does the world actually work and how should the world actually work,” says Davidson. “I don’t think I have anyone else in my life who is as voraciously curious about every aspect of it and whose brain is on fire trying to understand it.”
Quote
McKay tells the story of the radical anti-capitalist roots of Chumbawamba’s 1997 megahit “Tubthumping,” which he introduces as “the ultimate populist, activist story”: “[the song] was part of their deliberate thirty-year strategy to empower the working class and overthrow the status quo of England.” Davidson goes quiet. “I honestly don’t know if you’re doing a bit right now,” he says.

McKay backs up and sets the scene — Thatcher’s rise in the UK, the 1984 miners’ strike, and a little anti-capitalist collective, Chumbawamba, trying to figure out what the hell they could do about it. With McKay playing clips of their ever-evolving sound, we hear how the band eventually traded in the fuzzed-out guitars and guttural punk howling for drum machines and slick vocals, ditching the subculture to go pop. But their goal wasn’t money — it was to wage class war. And after fifteen years, it paid off with a hit that was no doubt heard by legions of workers around the globe — maybe more. The defiant chorus, still stuck in the heads of millions to this day, was about working-class resilience even after all the defeats: I get knocked down, but I get up again. You are never gonna keep me down.
Quote
McKay even shot an epilogue in which Derek Jeter, playing himself, acts as a kind of left-wing Deep Throat (with a touch of Matt Taibbi), handing our heroes their next assignment, this one on Gold-man Sachs: “The whole damn system is clogged up with dirty money. And the news doesn’t say a word about it,” says Jeter. “’Cause who owns them? The same corporations who own the government.” It was cut from the theatrical edition.

“The audiences hated it,” McKays says. “We would screen it, and it would just thud.” So he decided to drive home his point, instead, in the end credits, with a slickly crafted animated presentation on the startling rise in economic inequality. It charts everything from the explosion of the CEO-to-average-worker pay ratio to a comparison between the NYPD retirement benefit and the average chief executive package. Everything he’d been wanting to scream at his audience came pouring out in that sequence. It was a risky move — going full Bernie Bro just one year into the Obama presidency, when Bernie Bros didn’t even exist yet.
Quote
After The Other Guys, McKay tried to get a comic book adaptation off the ground — The Boys, by Garth Ennis and Darick Robertson, set in a world where superheroes are very much real, but are also deeply corrupt and dangerously unaccountable corporate-sponsored celebrities. The title refers to a secret black-ops team tasked with keeping those superheroes under control — by any means necessary.

It’s the total antithesis of The Avengers and its celebration of libertarian billionaires thumbing their nose at democracy. “The famous line where [Tony] Stark lands and he’s like . . . what did he say? ‘The US military is privatized,’” McKay says, wincing. The dangers of an arrogant, unaccountable elite with blood on their hands flying around the world? For McKay, they might as well be hedge fund managers on coke. He cut a proof-of-concept trailer for The Boys and shopped it around town, but nobody would bite.
why is this happening
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on December 03, 2019, 04:11:18 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EK5BrAGUcAEEd07?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Joe Molotov on December 03, 2019, 04:14:43 PM
Uh oh, Upsetera thread incoming! "Who is this old fuck that says Disney movies aren't cinema and doesn't even love Baby Yoda??"
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on December 03, 2019, 04:59:43 PM
Foucault would have known about Baby Yoda
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on December 03, 2019, 08:44:26 PM
https://twitter.com/cafedujord/status/1192972896991211520
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: toku on December 04, 2019, 11:50:26 PM
https://twitter.com/kenklippenstein/status/1202365668013809668
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on December 05, 2019, 01:58:39 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/ngRDTuq.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EK4tUhgU4AE5aFO.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on December 08, 2019, 03:24:35 AM
any good articles etc on hypermodernity?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on December 09, 2019, 02:18:53 PM
https://twitter.com/annakhachiyan/status/1202707578024845314
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on December 09, 2019, 06:00:34 PM
Study up, folks :ufup

(https://i.imgur.com/nv07uXR_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=high)
I was going to say what my score was, but I was reading the chart counterclockwise from No Treason so I got to "Precursors of Ancap" and saw "Ayn Rand" and now I refuse to participate.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Joe Molotov on December 09, 2019, 06:02:25 PM
ayncap
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on December 09, 2019, 06:18:44 PM
"interchangeable books, choose one"

what's the difference between "novice" and "beginner"?

The Helicopter Pilot's Handbook, zero reviews on Amazon :lawd

Quote
One problem with helicoptering is that there are virtually no flying clubs, at least of the sort that exist for fixed wing, so pilots get very little chance to swap stories, unless they meet in a muddy field somewhere, waiting for their passengers. As a result, the same mistakes are being made and the same lessons learnt separately instead of being shared - it's comforting sometimes to know that you're not the only one to inflate the floats by accident! Even when you do get into a school, there are still a couple of things they don't teach you, namely that aviation runs on paperwork, and how to get a job, including interview techniques, etc - flying the aircraft is actually less than a third of the job. Another is that nobody really tells you anything, either about the job you have to do (from the customer) or how to do it (the company) - you will always be up against the other guy who managed to do it last week! Sure, there will be training, but, even in the best companies, this will be relatively minimal. This book is an attempt to correct the above situations by gathering together as much information as possible for helicopter pilots, old and new, professional and otherwise, in an attempt to explain the why, so the how will become easier (you will be so much more useful if you know what the customer is trying to achieve). In short, this is all the stuff nobody taught me - every tip and trick I have learnt has been included.

I saw a similar thing to this that was like "top 50 libertarian books" or something along those lines and it was what you expected until about #20 where nearly the last thirty were all prepper books or "above normal" Federal Reserve related rants or both, I assume the state had such a dangerous person murdered
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on December 09, 2019, 07:17:08 PM
I initially thought that the $ indicated obscure self-published works that they sell and nobody has ever seen, as those often dominate a lot of these kinds of things, but at least two of them including Viking Age Iceland are at least semi-legit academic works, the others are just collected essays. Viking Age Iceland is literally what it says on the cover. I assume it drew attention because the Vikings did not exactly setup a "state" as there weren't really any at the time so things like "they had no foreign policy or standing military" is misapplying a current concept backwards. I think it's more a problem of our current IR scholars not considering "raid and rape everything in sight" as not being a valid "foreign policy" due to their bigoted cultural norms.

However one of them is most definitely this, and you'll never guess which one:
spoiler (click to show/hide)
Quote from: A Plan To End the State
The essays contained in this volume were the result of many years of intensive thinking and reading about liberty. They address a topic, anarchist strategy, that is underdeveloped. Many people have written about how a free society might operate. But relatively few have applied hard thinking to the key question of "What do we do to achieve that world?" In the few instances people have, their proposed solutions have always been vague (a generic call for "education") or unconvincing (defeating the state through black markets - "agorism"). This is a problem. As long as we lack a comprehensible plan to bring about a free society, we will be unable to convince people that our ideology has a future. This will make them unwilling to act on our behalf. A person acts, as Mises explained, only if he believes that by acting he will successfully remove a felt uneasiness. Until we develop a plan to beat the state, I do not think our movement will inspire the hope necessary for action. The essays in this book are an attempt to solve this problem. In them, I outline a comprehensible plan for ending the state.
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on December 11, 2019, 04:07:28 PM
https://arzamas.academy/materials/1269
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on December 11, 2019, 06:11:16 PM
I've gone from Left SR to Bolshevik. You really do get more conservative as you age.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on December 11, 2019, 06:52:03 PM
I think I may be in for some trouble comrades:
(https://i.imgur.com/TIJ8qfP.png)

spoiler (click to show/hide)
"the more things stay the same" amirite
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on December 11, 2019, 08:10:11 PM
https://arzamas.academy/materials/1269

I got Menshevik Centrists, the dot is about a unit up and left from them. But all I remember about that era of Russia was one class many years ago so :shrug

Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on December 12, 2019, 02:41:36 AM
On the subject of quizzing, I want you to take the Canadian one, Benji.

https://votecompass.cbc.ca/canada/

Edit: If you need coaxing, I'll share mine.
It's a bit of a shite thing though, BQ do not deserve to be that upper-left and neither are the Libs that far apart from the Cons.

(https://i.imgur.com/vx4Y7Qh.png)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on December 12, 2019, 03:30:36 AM
https://arzamas.academy/materials/1269
i'm a filthy centrist (https://cdn-s-static.arzamas.academy/x/384-1917-xxJJkkqp/1258/images/share_en/eser-center.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on December 12, 2019, 09:02:21 AM
World's Most Laughable Centrist
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on December 13, 2019, 12:29:12 AM
https://twitter.com/willmenaker/status/1205253288083345408


cc: Esch
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on December 13, 2019, 12:55:50 AM
I get rooting for both guys to win, but the implication seems to be that they could each have been platforms for some shared global project and ???

"With Corbyn's defeat, the last hope for citizens of the UK, and indeed the world, is that Americans get free health care and college!"

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Or really "a president who in his heart really wants Americans to get free health care and college even though it doesn't happen" but I'm tryna find a charitable reading.
spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm obviously not trying that hard. Sue me.
[close]
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on December 13, 2019, 01:03:45 AM
On the subject of quizzing, I want you to take the Canadian one, Benji.

https://votecompass.cbc.ca/canada/
(https://i.imgur.com/smlGc8l.png)

I think the "French Canadians have no human rights" and "Quebec should be turned into an open-air slave farm" positions affected my vertical position.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on December 13, 2019, 01:53:10 AM
On the subject of quizzing, I want you to take the Canadian one, Benji.

https://votecompass.cbc.ca/canada/
(https://i.imgur.com/smlGc8l.png)

I think the "French Canadians have no human rights" and "Quebec should be turned into an open-air slave farm" positions affected my vertical position.

Good policies, want to take over the PPC? I'm sure no one will fight you over it.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on December 13, 2019, 02:07:52 AM
lol I did the thing to weight the answers and it barely changed except for boosting one party, apparently my desire for a Republic outweighed hating French Canadians:
(https://i.imgur.com/QruXPtT.png)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on December 13, 2019, 02:09:38 AM
I wouldn't put too much stock in the finer details, just at face value.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on December 13, 2019, 03:21:35 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/sOmWuEW.jpg) :whew
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on December 13, 2019, 03:29:12 AM
Probably the one getting to work indoors.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on December 13, 2019, 04:38:56 AM
I think the 'democratic socialist' innanet movement really does believe that it's the antidote to fascism and capitalism in decline in the first world (despite how many years of history to the contrary). Corbyn and Bernie stans have a lot to shake hands over, they both summon great man theory to lionize washed up demi-Trots as their saviors and collapse in agony whenever reality punches them down. They genuinely believe what they're doing and saying is new and will work and people will just tail their politics because hell, they have People First Politics right? The dissonance comes when they are forced to come to grips with the reactionary nature of the classes they want to recruit. Look at jezzas platform itself, the confusion is clear when the Brexit Question is put on the table.

WRONG

https://twitter.com/sunraysunray/status/1205280974017310722

https://twitter.com/lara_eleanor/status/1205285778999382016

https://twitter.com/marcusbarnett_/status/1205287276785352705

Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on December 13, 2019, 12:47:36 PM
https://twitter.com/gobloid3/status/1205177360506589184
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on December 13, 2019, 08:40:17 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/DALow99.jpg)

 :rash
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on December 13, 2019, 10:44:57 PM
https://twitter.com/famiconsumer/status/1205692843634782208
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on December 13, 2019, 11:11:47 PM
https://twitter.com/famiconsumer/status/1205692843634782208

:juche
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Rufus on December 14, 2019, 03:27:24 AM
https://twitter.com/famiconsumer/status/1205692843634782208
Any flip-floppers who went from "it's secretly alt-right" to... this?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on December 15, 2019, 12:29:00 AM
(https://i.redd.it/j9y13yu33n441.png)

:salute
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on December 15, 2019, 02:16:38 AM
any good articles etc on hypermodernity?

Aron Nimzowitsch's "My System" (https://i.imgur.com/vxauLES.png)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on December 15, 2019, 02:55:58 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/IQwxEyO.jpg)

 :drool
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on December 15, 2019, 06:46:57 PM
Filler signal boosting Canary Mission. :delicious
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on December 15, 2019, 07:53:51 PM
https://twitter.com/qamaaraa/status/1205856826757177345

 ;)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on December 16, 2019, 04:38:57 PM
(https://preview.redd.it/povqte3tgs041.png?width=1024&auto=webp&s=e73720128c9c97a1ad9115ae24734985901efc08)

(https://i.imgur.com/SoGk0rG.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on December 17, 2019, 02:03:24 PM
Will doubling down on BERNIE OR BARBARISM in this week's free Chapo. :existential

I did nearly drive off the road when Matt described Melenchon as "anti-NATO, genuinely antisemitic" though. :lol
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on December 17, 2019, 03:28:37 PM
demsocs ain't slick

https://twitter.com/kirstiealley/status/1207028067849396224
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Joe Molotov on December 17, 2019, 03:34:37 PM
But Scientology tho, that's the good stuff. :lawd
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Brehvolution on December 17, 2019, 04:12:34 PM
demsocs ain't slick

https://twitter.com/kirstiealley/status/1207028067849396224

Where did all these roads, bridges, farm subsidies, middle east nation building, and world police come from?  :thinking
You might not want to call is socialism, but it's still redistribution of wealth.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on December 17, 2019, 06:18:15 PM
https://twitter.com/thefouchoe/status/1206964476056088579
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on December 17, 2019, 07:23:39 PM
Will doubling down on BERNIE OR BARBARISM in this week's free Chapo. :existential

I did nearly drive off the road when Matt described Melenchon as "anti-NATO, genuinely antisemitic" though. :lol

Interesting how the only hopes for humankind are white succdems from the imperial core :hitler
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on December 18, 2019, 02:47:57 AM
https://twitter.com/TitaniaMcGrath/status/1206959362050265089
https://twitter.com/TitaniaMcGrath/status/1205256289816895490

 :ohyeah

spoiler (click to show/hide)
https://twitter.com/TitaniaMcGrath/status/1204187161140121600
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on December 18, 2019, 02:48:48 AM
okay I quite liked this line: https://thecritic.co.uk/issues/december-2019/block-boris/
Quote
Everyone mocked Anna Soubry when she tweeted that Brexit is “the most important decision facing our country since WW3”, but I have no doubt whatsoever that Brexit could lead to a fourth world war. They won’t be laughing then.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on December 18, 2019, 03:33:19 AM
Titania McGrath is a Spiked employee's joke alt.

This post brought to you by the Lunch Pail Doxer Gang.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on December 18, 2019, 04:27:18 AM
Titania McGrath is a Spiked employee's joke alt.
Why would you go on the internet and tell lies like this, Kara? I really thought better of you.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on December 18, 2019, 02:19:45 PM
Titania McGrath is a Spiked employee's joke alt.
Why would you go on the internet and tell lies like this, Kara? I really thought better of you.

It's OK I assume you don't read the "Funded by Koch" Slack channel you're in.

Speaking of, imagine going from being a Trot rag to this.

https://twitter.com/SayeedaWarsi/status/1207024669880135686

Is this Militant 2.0?

 :isthis
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on December 19, 2019, 01:46:47 PM
 :holeup
https://twitter.com/TitaniaMcGrath/status/1204800574602072066
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on December 19, 2019, 02:13:25 PM
that account  :-\
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on December 19, 2019, 03:05:58 PM
Sam Kriss rose from the grave of canceldom to write about Corbynism and while it's 90% barely readable shit there are a few good nuggets hidden within:

Quote
The failure of Corbynism was a failure on the level of theory. It’s important to contextualise the decline of the Labour party. This wasn’t an isolated incident; the traditional centre-left is dying across Europe and across the world. Social-democratic politics are (mostly) a mass politics, and the last forty years have conspired to shatter all masses. Neoliberalism and deindustrialisation and the assault on the unions have disrupted collective subjects and collective solidarity – but new technologies do the same thing. Marxism was the ideological expression of the printed word, and we’re all illiterates now.

https://samkriss.com/2019/12/19/the-case-for-giving-up/ (https://samkriss.com/2019/12/19/the-case-for-giving-up/)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on December 19, 2019, 03:26:47 PM
It's all masturbatory with him. He was in the pits over the Brexit vote as well.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Pissy F Benny on December 19, 2019, 03:56:57 PM
I'm sure he was wiping his tears away with £50 notes in his dads million quid house  :mynicca
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on December 19, 2019, 04:15:52 PM
One of my nü Labour mutuals mentioned him out of the blue the other day before the election so I went to his Twitter to see if he was back to posting and it was all Liberal Democrat retweets for the most part.

Then I went to his blog and read his post about antisemitism in the United KKKingdom and had a similar reaction to curly with the Corbyn post.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on December 19, 2019, 04:17:06 PM
That twitter's not him
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on December 19, 2019, 04:18:08 PM
 >:( owned
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on December 19, 2019, 04:23:48 PM
google gave me this as the closest meme

(https://pics.me.me/commie-club-must-have-read-must-read-marx-commie-club-25777503.png)

Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on December 20, 2019, 02:26:09 AM
http://www.thebore.com/forum/index.php?topic=46734.msg2751319#msg2751319

CW: the shite thread

benji, my version of this story involves convincing my lovable but clueless friend to run for school president in our senior year.

I wrote a pretty funny speech for him (even after it was censored by the mods school administrators--the speeches had to be preapproved :usacry) that was the product of paying a nontrivial amount of attention during the prior 3 elections (nerd). I also had him deliver the speech in a particular manner to "heighten the comedy" (it didn't and it sucks that I asked him to do that).

He beat a cheerleader and some nerd and became president. The mods administrators passed a rule after the election that required klanidates give their speeches in their normal manner of speaking because of our campaign that I assume is still on the books.

One of my friend's new duties was to give morning announcements on our school's television channel. (Each of the other elected officials also had to do this on different days.) One week we had Wednesday and Friday off but not Thursday. That Thursday was of course going to be senior ditch day. He gave announcements on Monday or Tuesday with a girl in a different year. At the end of their broadcast she said, "Enjoy your 3 day weekend everyone!" and my friend deadass said, "And to you seniors, enjoy your 5 day weekend." She looked absolutely mortified as the feed cut to credits.

He of course got in hot water, became the object of much contempt by the senior class, and only the most foolish seniors didn't show up to school on Thursday.

There's probably a historical metaphor to make here but 99% of historical analogies are bullshit except for the ones that are developed by Friedrich Engels and Matt Karp.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on December 20, 2019, 10:40:54 PM
everybody probably already seen this but it's new to me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Xr4xtD8AXk
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on December 20, 2019, 11:41:14 PM
everybody probably already seen this but it's new to me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Xr4xtD8AXk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G7aT6p_aGk

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Quote
Slavs or western spies?

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Quote
Corn in the video so they are clearly revisionists
[close]
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on December 20, 2019, 11:47:01 PM
https://twitter.com/RT_com/status/1208246968927080448
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on December 21, 2019, 12:58:35 AM
https://twitter.com/SameeraKhan/status/1208261407847960577
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on December 23, 2019, 05:04:23 PM
https://twitter.com/chicxlunar/status/1208657704815738880
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on December 25, 2019, 05:26:54 AM
And here I thought g/acc was just a meme
https://twitter.com/stephaniehazen/status/1209559753854242816?s=21 (https://twitter.com/stephaniehazen/status/1209559753854242816?s=21)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: nachobro on December 25, 2019, 02:14:41 PM
article sourced from
https://www.tsln.com/news/stangle-impossible-burgers-are-made-of-what/

Quote
By Dr. James Stangle, DVM
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on December 25, 2019, 04:23:26 PM
https://twitter.com/Garou_Hidalgo/status/1209690226907656192

 :bow :bow :bow :chinacry :ussrcry :bow2 :bow2 :bow2
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on December 25, 2019, 05:58:02 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/pEPTdlf.jpg) ;)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on December 27, 2019, 03:25:07 PM
https://twitter.com/jaymart222/status/1210266716128841731
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on December 27, 2019, 08:43:19 PM
https://twitter.com/JillFilipovic/status/1210666706449784832

https://twitter.com/ebruenig/status/1210603498917765121
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on December 27, 2019, 08:44:01 PM
https://twitter.com/feggnews/status/1210609694835953665
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on December 27, 2019, 08:51:28 PM
https://twitter.com/jaymart222/status/1210266716128841731

https://twitter.com/CmndrBunny/status/1210638800122081280
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on December 27, 2019, 10:06:55 PM
https://twitter.com/feggnews/status/1210609694835953665

You can't abort a fetus, but you can put a child in a closet and let it starve to death.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on December 27, 2019, 11:02:56 PM
https://twitter.com/feggnews/status/1210609694835953665

You can't abort a fetus, but you can put a child in a closet and let it starve to death.

bonus:

https://twitter.com/LeftIsBlest/status/1210611851043622912
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on December 29, 2019, 01:31:05 PM
https://twitter.com/getfiscal/status/1211242627661737984

Grow a pair, Don!
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on December 29, 2019, 01:34:29 PM
Don Hughes should be elevated to Wank Dad status.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on December 29, 2019, 11:49:52 PM
https://twitter.com/ComradePraveenK/status/1211508426414538753

 :existential
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on December 30, 2019, 05:13:57 PM
https://twitter.com/USAmbPoland/status/1211588565475430400

https://twitter.com/Garou_Hidalgo/status/1211751519869112320
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on December 30, 2019, 06:53:34 PM
:dead
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on December 30, 2019, 07:12:41 PM
https://twitter.com/HarryShostta/status/1210043043975454721

Shosta's twitter account is wild.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: toku on December 30, 2019, 08:28:23 PM
 :nsfw
spoiler (click to show/hide)
(https://i.imgur.com/tNIcDmk.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on January 01, 2020, 03:33:21 PM
spent some time listening to conservative voting relatives veer into discussing how the rich avoid taxes over the holidays  :lol
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on January 01, 2020, 07:48:36 PM
conservative relatives feeln dat bern  :pimp
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on January 01, 2020, 09:55:43 PM
https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2020/01/what-libertarianism-has-become-and-will-become-state-capacity-libertarianism.html
Quote
Having tracked the libertarian “movement” for much of my life, I believe it is now pretty much hollowed out, at least in terms of flow.  One branch split off into Ron Paul-ism and less savory alt right directions, and another, more establishment branch remains out there in force but not really commanding new adherents.  For one thing, it doesn’t seem that old-style libertarianism can solve or even very well address a number of major problems, most significantly climate change.  For another, smart people are on the internet, and the internet seems to encourage synthetic and eclectic views, at least among the smart and curious.  Unlike the mass culture of the 1970s, it does not tend to breed “capital L Libertarianism.”  On top of all that, the out-migration from narrowly libertarian views has been severe, most of all from educated women.

There is also the word “classical liberal,” but what is “classical” supposed to mean that is not question-begging?  The classical liberalism of its time focused on 19th century problems — appropriate for the 19th century of course — but from WWII onwards it has been a very different ballgame.

Along the way, I believe the smart classical liberals and libertarians have, as if guided by an invisible hand, evolved into a view that I dub with the entirely non-sticky name of State Capacity Libertarianism.  I define State Capacity Libertarianism in terms of a number of propositions:

1. Markets and capitalism are very powerful, give them their due.

2. Earlier in history, a strong state was necessary to back the formation of capitalism and also to protect individual rights (do read Koyama and Johnson on state capacity).  Strong states remain necessary to maintain and extend capitalism and markets.  This includes keeping China at bay abroad and keeping elections free from foreign interference, as well as developing effective laws and regulations for intangible capital, intellectual property, and the new world of the internet.  (If you’ve read my other works, you will know this is not a call for massive regulation of Big Tech.)

3. A strong state is distinct from a very large or tyrannical state.  A good strong state should see the maintenance and extension of capitalism as one of its primary duties, in many cases its #1 duty.

4. Rapid increases in state capacity can be very dangerous (earlier Japan, Germany), but high levels of state capacity are not inherently tyrannical.  Denmark should in fact have a smaller government, but it is still one of the freer and more secure places in the world, at least for Danish citizens albeit not for everybody.

5. Many of the failures of today’s America are failures of excess regulation, but many others are failures of state capacity.  Our governments cannot address climate change, much improve K-12 education, fix traffic congestion, or improve the quality of their discretionary spending.  Much of our physical infrastructure is stagnant or declining in quality.  I favor much more immigration, nonetheless I think our government needs clear standards for who cannot get in, who will be forced to leave, and a workable court system to back all that up and today we do not have that either.

Those problems require state capacity — albeit to boost markets — in a way that classical libertarianism is poorly suited to deal with.  Furthermore, libertarianism is parasitic upon State Capacity Libertarianism to some degree.  For instance, even if you favor education privatization, in the shorter run we still need to make the current system much better.  That would even make privatization easier, if that is your goal.

6. I will cite again the philosophical framework of my book Stubborn Attachments: A Vision for a Society of Free, Prosperous, and Responsible Individuals.

7. The fundamental growth experience of recent decades has been the rise of capitalism, markets, and high living standards in East Asia, and State Capacity Libertarianism has no problem or embarrassment in endorsing those developments.  It remains the case that such progress (or better) could have been made with more markets and less government.  Still, state capacity had to grow in those countries and indeed it did.  Public health improvements are another major success story of our time, and those have relied heavily on state capacity — let’s just admit it.

8. The major problem areas of our time have been Africa and South Asia.  They are both lacking in markets and also in state capacity.

9. State Capacity Libertarians are more likely to have positive views of infrastructure, science subsidies, nuclear power (requires state support!), and space programs than are mainstream libertarians or modern Democrats.  Modern Democrats often claim to favor those items, and sincerely in my view, but de facto they are very willing to sacrifice them for redistribution, egalitarian and fairness concerns, mood affiliation, and serving traditional Democratic interest groups.  For instance, modern Democrats have run New York for some time now, and they’ve done a terrible job building and fixing things.  Nor are Democrats doing much to boost nuclear power as a partial solution to climate change, if anything the contrary.

10. State Capacity Libertarianism has no problem endorsing higher quality government and governance, whereas traditional libertarianism is more likely to embrace or at least be wishy-washy toward small, corrupt regimes, due to some of the residual liberties they leave behind.

11. State Capacity Libertarianism is not non-interventionist in foreign policy, as it believes in strong alliances with other relatively free nations, when feasible.  That said, the usual libertarian “problems of intervention because government makes a lot of mistakes” bar still should be applied to specific military actions.  But the alliances can be hugely beneficial, as illustrated by much of 20th century foreign policy and today much of Asia — which still relies on Pax Americana.

It is interesting to contrast State Capacity Libertarianism to liberaltarianism, another offshoot of libertarianism.  On most substantive issues, the liberaltarians might be very close to State Capacity Libertarians.  But emphasis and focus really matter, and I would offer this (partial) list of differences:

a. The liberaltarian starts by assuring “the left” that they favor lots of government transfer programs.  The State Capacity Libertarian recognizes that demands of mercy are never ending, that economic growth can benefit people more than transfers, and, within the governmental sphere, it is willing to emphasize an analytical, “cold-hearted” comparison between government discretionary spending and transfer spending.  Discretionary spending might well win out at many margins.

b. The “polarizing Left” is explicitly opposed to a lot of capitalism, and de facto standing in opposition to state capacity, due to the polarization, which tends to thwart problem-solving.  The polarizing Left is thus a bigger villain for State Capacity Libertarianism than it is for liberaltarianism.  For the liberaltarians, temporary alliances with the polarizing Left are possible because both oppose Trump and other bad elements of the right wing.  It is easy — maybe too easy — to market liberaltarianism to the Left as a critique and revision of libertarians and conservatives.

c. Liberaltarian Will Wilkinson made the mistake of expressing enthusiasm for Elizabeth Warren.  It is hard to imagine a State Capacity Libertarian making this same mistake, since so much of Warren’s energy is directed toward tearing down American business.  Ban fracking? Really?  Send money to Russia, Saudi Arabia, lose American jobs, and make climate change worse, all at the same time?  Nope.

d. State Capacity Libertarianism is more likely to make a mistake of say endorsing high-speed rail from LA to Sf (if indeed that is a mistake), and decrying the ability of U.S. governments to get such a thing done.  “Which mistakes they are most likely to commit” is an underrated way of assessing political philosophies.

You will note the influence of Peter Thiel on State Capacity Libertarianism, though I have never heard him frame the issues in this way.

Furthermore, “which ideas survive well in internet debate” has been an important filter on the evolution of the doctrine.  That point is under-discussed, for all sorts of issues, and it may get a blog post of its own.
F

 :paul

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Quote
Daniel Klein
January 1, 2020 at 5:44 am
Here, on January 1, 2020, you diss "classical liberalism" as a "question-begging" expression, ill-suited to modern times.

Yesterday, December 31, 2019, in your Modi post, you identified, without qualification, as classical liberal.

Pedagogical esotericism? Does Homer nod? Other?



God of Thunder
January 1, 2020 at 11:25 am
What a difference a year makes!
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on January 01, 2020, 09:58:07 PM
For one thing, it doesn’t seem that old-style libertarianism can solve or even very well address a number of major problems, most significantly climate change.

this is true
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on January 01, 2020, 10:10:22 PM
why solve a problem when you can profit handsomely from said problem

spoiler (click to show/hide)
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-vitality-air-sales-update-bottled-air-1.5073762
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on January 02, 2020, 01:01:22 AM
Same way I don't think of you as a Soviet composer anymore. Well I might by the time this forum is over  :doge
(https://i.imgur.com/fCP0ge8.png)

:salute
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on January 02, 2020, 10:02:38 PM
your kind is a blight, benji
https://twitter.com/YALiberty

if I had the misfortune of seeing this, you will too


lmao
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ENXn9aYXsAAIgGj.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on January 02, 2020, 10:05:00 PM
rand paul
ron paul
my gunzzz
b-but the founding principles
"welfare is killing the american dream"

 :stahp
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on January 03, 2020, 01:22:37 AM
We're still maybe a decade or two out from this being true, but if Chavismo can withstand this much AmeriKKKan aggression and persist it will probably become as (comparatively) unimpeachable as Castroism on the left.
Quote
Venezuela’s President Nicolas Maduro Thursday announced that the Venezuelan Great Housing Mission (GMVV) achieved its 2019 goal by completing the delivery of 3 million dwellings to the Bolivarian people as planned.

“Despite the Imperialist economic, trade and financial blockade, which robbed us of so many resources in 2019, the construction industry did not stop,” Maduro said at an event in the state of La Guaira where he handed over the keys of the dwelling number 3 million to a local family.

The housing program, which seeks to deliver at least 500,000 new dwellings in 2020, has a new goal to achieve: to deliver 5 million dwellings by 2025.
didn't even have to wait a decade
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Rufus on January 03, 2020, 06:31:38 PM
https://old.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/ejk48x/til_research_shows_that_children_as_young_as_4/?sort=controversial
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on January 03, 2020, 06:46:29 PM
https://www.reddit.com/r/Libertarian/comments/ejhb55/just_a_quick_shoutout_to_all_the_libertarians/
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on January 03, 2020, 08:25:19 PM
Weird to read a post of mine written 5 days before my life drastically changed.

Anyway, reposting this dank meme from the Unofficial LF Bore Biden 2020 PAC Slack.

(https://i.imgur.com/Jqa9zxL.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on January 03, 2020, 08:34:49 PM
https://www.reddit.com/r/Libertarian/comments/ejhb55/just_a_quick_shoutout_to_all_the_libertarians/
Quote
Quote
Let's get real: Who voted for Gary Johnson? I did, but the like-minded "libertarian" people I've talked to almost all voted for Trump. WTF?
Allow me to explain...first off, Gary Johnson is exactly the kind of candidate that makes everyone thing the LP is a joke. He never seemed to be prepared for appearances. When you add in the possibility of Hillary Clinton -- who was more of a danger to liberty than any of the other candidates -- winning office, a lot of people would've have voted for the devil himself because any alternative was better than Clinton.
:hmm
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on January 03, 2020, 08:37:13 PM
The guys who subscribe to Lew Rockwell's newsletter definitely voted for Trump as part of some noble rearguard action. :american
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on January 04, 2020, 02:09:26 AM
https://twitter.com/sed_contra_/status/1213251351108390912
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on January 04, 2020, 01:51:39 PM
https://www.prisoncensorship.info/archive/etext/bookstore/vgames/index.html
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on January 04, 2020, 03:14:43 PM
https://www.prisoncensorship.info/archive/etext/bookstore/vgames/index.html

READ DO NOT PLAY SETTLERS.

Quote
In MIM's political economy, settlers play an important role, especially in the question of nationalism. The reason that settlers have been important in the united $tates, I$rael, Au$tralia etc. as well as within the exploited nations is not handled here. With all the wrong political messages, "Settlers" the game should be skipped.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on January 06, 2020, 01:48:02 AM
FINALLY they're sending troops to The Hague. :preach

https://twitter.com/LockheedMartin/status/1213551929378443267
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on January 06, 2020, 04:33:59 PM
Looked her up and :lol :whew

(https://default.salsalabs.org/1d10a171-ea1b-4aca-be41-92bb698b6e47/8d215fc3-ee70-474a-a4be-919b58365820.jpg)

The Anarchist Starter Kit
- Misfits poster
- Handcrafted "FUCK FASCISM" placard
- buzzcut

I'd vote for her
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on January 06, 2020, 04:39:22 PM
That's the kind of anarchist I usually live with. :goty2
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on January 06, 2020, 04:55:24 PM
 :lol :rethread
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on January 06, 2020, 05:16:21 PM
Seriously though, she rules. Fuck the garbage her dad did for a living.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on January 06, 2020, 05:19:11 PM
shame on her for not disowning her right wing family  :reeeee she shouldn't even know her father died imo  :yikes
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Joe Molotov on January 06, 2020, 06:09:52 PM
The article said she only found out he was dead weeks later when she googled him  :jawalrus
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on January 06, 2020, 06:33:47 PM
She'd been estranged from her family for years when he died.

No investigation, no right to speak quality posts, etc.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on January 06, 2020, 06:36:41 PM
which reeee mod is this  :lol
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: nachobro on January 06, 2020, 06:42:38 PM
steve youngblood
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on January 06, 2020, 06:48:07 PM
I'm 0/3, 0/5 if you include the tattoos and smoking.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Advertising your ideology to the state. :doge
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on January 06, 2020, 07:39:53 PM
which reeee mod is this  :lol

None, because unlike anyone on REE she actually went out and did something.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on January 06, 2020, 07:47:21 PM
None, because unlike anyone on REE she actually went out and did something.
User Banned (And Killed): Attacks on staff, misrepresenting staff, cross-site drama, inflammatory commentary, off-site drama, modwhining, history of sex scandals, inflammatory metacommentary, not leaving The Bronx, drive-by derailing
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on January 06, 2020, 07:51:22 PM
 :win
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on January 06, 2020, 08:42:39 PM
 :hitler

(https://i.imgur.com/BqBPD5k.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/hlF7zHF.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on January 07, 2020, 12:27:24 PM
It just keeps happening. :whatsthedeal
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on January 07, 2020, 05:30:58 PM
 :jawalrus

https://www.aier.org/article/the-reemergence-of-fascism-left-and-right/

spoiler (click to show/hide)
What a website
Not bothering to read this article but the headline  :lol
https://www.aier.org/article/what-precisely-is-wrong-with-economic-inequality/
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on January 08, 2020, 03:29:54 AM
https://www.propublica.org/article/how-trump-trade-war-is-making-lobbyists-rich-and-slamming-small-businesses/

Props to Pro Publica for centering their story about the corruption in the China tariff appeals process around a libertarian small business owner. They even talked to a a fellow at the Mercatus Center too. Purity politics? Nein danke! This is about building a broad anti-Trump movement encompassing various tendencies, intersectional social advocacy, and a commitment to economic democracy that is bold, accessible, and diverse.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
:marimo

(https://i.imgur.com/Ist9S3F.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on January 08, 2020, 04:47:10 AM
Quote
The process didn’t go as he expected. It’s the stuff that libertarians like Elrod dread: Low-level staffers with limited industry knowledge issuing seemingly arbitrary decisions that can save or smash a company’s bottom line.

Every few weeks, a list comes out with a new batch of lucky winners, and losers. “Non-electrical wall candelabras, of wood, each with 3 wrought iron candle holders” received a pass, for example, but none with one or two candles.

There is no mechanism for appeals.
:mindblown :dead
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Joe Molotov on January 08, 2020, 08:49:06 AM
The clowns in Washington, amirite? #Trump2020
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on January 08, 2020, 09:01:14 AM
Just move the capital to Dallas lol #maga
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on January 08, 2020, 08:16:47 PM
https://twitter.com/Ad_Inifinitum/status/1215002858829029376
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on January 09, 2020, 01:41:32 AM
I always think that account is benji and then I actually read the tweet.

Unrelated: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-01-08/the-catholic-church-s-strategy-to-limit-payouts-to-abuse-victims
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on January 09, 2020, 02:20:35 AM
it is
controlled opposition is a part of the Benji Extended Universe

Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on January 09, 2020, 02:24:20 AM
https://twitter.com/Ad_Inifinitum/status/1215154629002121217
https://twitter.com/Ad_Inifinitum/status/1215155555150573569
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on January 09, 2020, 02:30:46 AM
Out of curiosity I looked up the economics faculty here at UNLV... the chair is alright but the next four guys:
- expert in digital rights enforcement in the music industry
- oil and gas industry expert and one of the economists responsible for lifting the oil export ban
- Chinese expat who hates Mao
- Italian guy who's written a paper called "The Optimal Utilization of Slaves" :-\
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on January 09, 2020, 02:30:57 AM
Also BENJI it turns out Murray Rothbard taught here from 1985 until he died :lol come down here, they'll probably let you teach a class on objectivism or whatever. Not that I'll take it for a grade or anything. But maybe I'll sit in.  :-*
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on January 09, 2020, 02:53:54 AM
Because of Lake Mead is UNLV considered a freshwater school? :thinking
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on January 09, 2020, 03:02:59 AM
There are a lot of white guys here who have published papers on the race wage gap and the gender wage gap. My favorite abstract by far (written by three men):
Quote from: Previous Marriage and the Lesbian Wage Premium
This paper provides insight into the wage gap between partnered lesbians and other groups of women. Using data from the 2000 Decennial Census, we find that wages of never-married lesbians are significantly higher than wages of previously married lesbians and other groups of women. Results indicate that controlling for previous marriage reduces the estimated lesbian wage premium by approximately 20 percent. Our research also reveals that wage patterns of previously married lesbians mirror those of cohabiting heterosexual women. Overall, our results are consistent with the notion that the lesbian wage premium is driven, in part, by differences in the labor-market commitment of lesbians and heterosexual women.
spoiler (click to show/hide)
the chair of economics wrote this one
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on January 10, 2020, 01:21:04 AM
https://twitter.com/TajinderBagga/status/1215324386531561472
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BIONIC on January 10, 2020, 01:29:10 AM
https://twitter.com/TajinderBagga/status/1215324386531561472

Murdering dat pussy :pimp
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on January 10, 2020, 09:08:33 PM
https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/1215783071187918849
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on January 10, 2020, 10:52:00 PM
https://twitter.com/jtbrg/status/1215770146465308676
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on January 10, 2020, 11:32:28 PM
https://twitter.com/imraansiddiqi/status/1215851271250333696
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on January 11, 2020, 01:52:43 PM
filler please sneak into this Faceyb group. :dead

(https://i.imgur.com/INwv5mj.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on January 12, 2020, 04:34:20 PM
If you're not already following this Twitter account, do so now.

https://twitter.com/postXamerica/status/1197251226137714688
https://twitter.com/postXamerica/status/1195815398085521408
https://twitter.com/postXamerica/status/1192834161842802688
https://twitter.com/postXamerica/status/1207855257037893632
https://twitter.com/postXamerica/status/1212912819550638080
https://twitter.com/postXamerica/status/1216137304495910912
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on January 12, 2020, 06:21:54 PM
https://twitter.com/KateAronoff/status/1214551759642931200

[goon project]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on January 13, 2020, 02:33:27 AM
 :nope Democratic socialism--American style

 :ohyeah Democratic socialism--animal style
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on January 13, 2020, 09:19:33 AM
https://twitter.com/minhtngo/status/1215013877559091200

A smaller percentage of the total population than I initially thought, but that's still an incredibly massive protest.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on January 13, 2020, 02:52:32 PM
https://twitter.com/nypost/status/1216785957745319942

https://twitter.com/robbystarbuck/status/1216790663741702144

the hero we deserve  :rejoice
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on January 14, 2020, 03:58:25 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/BgpKXg9.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Joe Molotov on January 14, 2020, 09:47:00 AM
eat a 'bag of d--ks'
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on January 14, 2020, 06:57:30 PM
https://twitter.com/getfiscal/status/1217211401950957568

Our boy is writing for Girondist now!
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on January 14, 2020, 09:33:36 PM
That article started pretty strong then meandered into oblivion. Basically like reading an episode of You Can't Win.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on January 15, 2020, 11:03:23 PM
 :dead

https://twitter.com/blagojevism/status/1217274803931041792
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on January 16, 2020, 12:28:08 AM
edit: I'm being dumb
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on January 16, 2020, 12:44:12 AM
I read that post before you nuked it. :vr

It's a loaded topic and unfortunately you sound like a scold if you have thoughtful opinions about it that aren't Avakianesque "revolution! nothing less!" maxims.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on January 16, 2020, 12:46:04 AM
I'm misrepresenting what people are saying anyway
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on January 16, 2020, 12:56:16 AM
https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/559363/most-dangerous-job-murder-americas-first-bird-warden
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on January 16, 2020, 05:29:03 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/86WlwhV.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on January 16, 2020, 05:32:58 PM
https://twitter.com/AB84/status/1217591497886924802

acAB84!
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on January 16, 2020, 11:49:16 PM
https://twitter.com/PATreasury/status/1216943795650158598

infiltrating the state :preach
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on January 16, 2020, 11:51:09 PM
 :existential

https://twitter.com/pooliticdad/status/1217867392577101826
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on January 17, 2020, 02:52:52 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/5ZHYolW_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium)
Means TV encouraging someone to get evicted :lol

I have no doubt in my mind that after this thing launches we're going to get some hilarious stories as the dirigible slowly crashes in flames.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on January 17, 2020, 03:20:13 PM
Easy to declare a climate emergency when tech platforms have turned your city into an open air hotel that doesn't follow any of the laws governing hotels. :rodney

Good thing your national government loves regional self-determination too. :joker
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Oblivion on January 17, 2020, 05:25:35 PM
https://twitter.com/nytdavidbrooks/status/1218158331791134720
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on January 17, 2020, 06:09:41 PM
The other week I was doing a surface dive in Right Catholic Twitter (think Ahmari tier) and multiple times I ended up at different Woke Space Jesuit tweets by clicking through quote tweets. One of the people dunking on him was even a padre in the Vatican Crime Family.

What is happening with the faithful. :existential
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on January 17, 2020, 06:32:21 PM
People still fighting the OG Kulturkampf  :jeb
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on January 17, 2020, 07:14:18 PM
People still fighting the OG Kulturkampf  :jeb
it pops back up every few months like clockwork. i legit love this wrinkle in modern politics/religion and have more than one sincerepost in me about it
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on January 17, 2020, 07:54:37 PM
Quote
Attacking a politician’s religion is easier, especially when it remains a minority in the United Kingdom, with the Church of England the dominant branch of Christianity (and inexplicably with the Queen continuing to serve as the head of the church).

It's not really inexplicable, it has no point in existing without that.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on January 17, 2020, 10:41:13 PM
Don't just hint at sincereposts. Post them :mjcry
spoiler (click to show/hide)
dont  know how much this repeats the article; didnt read it. but the tldr is that: anti-catholicism starts out as a constitutive element in english republicanism*.

the act of supremacy and broader english reformation effectively collapsed religion, or at least ecclesiology, into politics. in early modern england, what we’d identify as someone’s position on the left-right spectrum was determined by their stance on matters theological/ecclesiastical. another way of saying it is that politics and political thought werent ultimately concerned with the ins and outs of policy, it was about attuning the temporal sphere to be in (more or less) perfect accordance with divine command and creation. so theres a monarchist strain of thought on the right exemplified in e.g. Hooker that, at its extreme, tends to absolutism e.g. Filmer. this is the strain thats the de facto court ideology and is interested in preserving (some of) the hierarchical makeup of the old late medieval church.

the strand on the left is the one that thought there was still plenty of reforming to do. the moderate wing is composed of calvinizing puritans who wanted a more presbyterian form of church polity. during the civil war (a republican/puritan victory, at least initially), theres a groundswell of a more radical wing of diggers, levellers, quakers and whatnot that are even more staunchly egalitarian; these guys are pretty much always peripheral though. anti-monarchist thought is stamped onto these guys so thoroughly that it welds really neatly with the good old anti-papalism and anti-clerisy thought that all protestants share. and that takes form (really, forms) over the longue duree.

theres also an impulse -latitudinarianism- that gains steam throughout the 17th century towards a deflation of the importance of strict orthodox bonafides in order to receive inclusion into the anglican communion, and, a fortiori, politics. even as this more ‘liberalizing’ tendency becomes characteristic of the anglican church, the limit case for inclusion, now into a citizenry rather than a church polity, remains Catholicism. the arguments milton gives in the areopagitica and locke gives in the second treatise of government go something like: a citizen of a liberal polity cant serve a foreign master (the nation-state prong) and Rome’s ecclesiastical hierarchy vitiates the construction of a liberal citizen(ry) (the egalitarian prong). plus a whole bunch of denigration of the moral character of practising catholics -that theyre stupid, subservient, or superstitious.

puritan republicanism morphs into liberal whiggery after the restoration, and the anti-catholic elements largely stay put throughout the period leading up to the reform acts of the 1830s. like i said, its in milton and locke; its also in sidney, gordon & trenchard, and (im guessing, havent read it myself) in blackstone too. and these especially are the guys that the generation of madison/jefferson/adams were reading when they were formulating their own liberalism republicanisms.

on the catholic side of things, the episcopacy was very much not reconciled to mass, partisan politics until sometime around vatican ii. the ‘integralism’ debate and all the whinging about ‘modernism’ throughout the long nineteenth century was indicative of an anxiety over the increasingly slim chances of a return to a confessional model of european polity. it was becoming more and more clear that the object of state coercion was narrowing (expanding? :bluesteel) to exclude its use to police the goodness of actions.**

so you still see both anxieties play out regularly in anglophone countries: non-catholics viewing catholics as subversives; catholics being conflicted between the moral vision of their church and the integrity of their liberal polity.


*really fraught term, only using it cause using ‘liberalism’ would be an even worse route to go down. for this post you can just read ‘republic’ it as the term that contrasts with ‘monarchy’

**let me emphasize -in political thought only. liberals in actual practice have absolutely used state coercion to impose ‘morals’, or whatever, on their constituents. 
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: toku on January 18, 2020, 10:42:09 AM
 :lol
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on January 18, 2020, 01:49:04 PM
https://dcist.com/story/20/01/16/death-threats-will-force-virginia-lawmaker-to-a-safe-house-during-pro-gun-rally/

It's a good thing squatters are almost all talk and no walk, otherwise prestige media institutions like the Wall Street Journal laundering far-right conspiracy theories might be worrisome.

Quote
This situation stems from a fundamental misunderstanding about a bill he reintroduced, which would allow public sector employees to go on strike. For at least the past 70 years, engaging in work stoppages would automatically be considered a resignation for Virginia employees, without the possibility of getting rehired for a year. Carter’s bill, inspired by teachers’ strikes across the country, would change that policy.

When he first introduced the bill last session it did not get a hearing, largely due to concerns from fellow lawmakers that letting law enforcement strike could lead to a decrease in public safety (a contention that Carter disagrees with). The Manassas delegate’s modified bill for the 2020 session does not allow law enforcement to strike.

But the intent of the bill, and the fact that law enforcement currently are not allowed to strike, has been lost. Instead, it has been lumped into a broader category of bills that gun-rights advocates and far-right groups allege are designed to take away their freedoms after Democrats won control of the General Assembly in November. Since then, dozens of jurisdictions in the commonwealth have declared themselves “Second Amendment sanctuaries” in opposition to the gun control measures expected to pass in the legislature, like universal background checks and red flag laws.

Social media posts began erroneously characterizing Carter’s legislation as trying to make sure police enforce gun control legislation on threat of being terminated from their jobs, in concert with Northam (“who I’m not particularly a fan of,” Carter notes). An article in Law Enforcement Today alleges that Carter’s bill is trying to “punish police,” and pro-confederate group the Virginia Flaggers tweeted that the bill would allow the commonwealth to “fire law enforcement officers if they won’t enforce unconstitutional gun laws.” Ultimately, those claims made their way into a Wall Street Journal editorial (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/second-amendment-sanctuaries-11577661926), which said that a Virginia lawmaker “introduced a bill that requires firing police officers who don’t enforce a gun statute.”
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on January 18, 2020, 02:09:22 PM
Neera..... welcome to Red Guards LF Bore.

https://twitter.com/neeratanden/status/1218312907815034881

You're going to have to do some self crit though, obv.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on January 18, 2020, 09:48:37 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/l7APGDl.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on January 18, 2020, 10:05:40 PM
Red Guards
read into the Heidi Sloan thing again and the whole thing is just so... mentally ill. Made me pretty sick reading it :goty2
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on January 18, 2020, 10:13:48 PM
https://twitter.com/TwinklingTania/status/1218727819552780288

https://twitter.com/azeem3610/status/1218728617963737094
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on January 19, 2020, 01:58:24 AM
Red Guards
read into the Heidi Sloan thing again and the whole thing is just so... mentally ill. Made me pretty sick reading it :goty2

It's hard not to think they're some sort of law enforcement operation. A comparable group in the Boyle Heights part of LA is known more for menacing "gentrifying forces" than basically everyone else, though they did have a dust up with DSA LA about a food pantry
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on January 19, 2020, 03:56:22 PM
:dead

https://twitter.com/yungsnorlaxx/status/1218978065801449472
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on January 19, 2020, 04:34:26 PM
Both scenarios are great because one on hand someone probably had to read the little red book to cosplay like an episode of Brooklyn 99 or some Austin white kids took it way too far. Both equally plausible

I would say that they're both highly plausible but not equally so. The last "revolutionary" organization you could be certain about not being infiltrated and controlled was FRSO and that's because they were ripped apart by arrests and trials.

That organization operates out of Texas and neither the state nor the other state has hammered them. For reference the FBI once considered Food Not Bombs a group with terrorist ties.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
I assume the first list I ever got on was because I used Food Not Bombs when I was skint af as a 20 something in LA. :larry
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Joe Molotov on January 19, 2020, 05:13:13 PM
I'm thinking about Tri-Power, thoughts?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on January 19, 2020, 05:52:14 PM
I'm thinking about Tri-Power, thoughts?

Tripartism :donot
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on January 19, 2020, 05:59:57 PM
I'm thinking about Tri-Power, thoughts?
It can get confusing but remember that one of them is the father, and another the son, but they're still the same person. When the son prays to the father, he's not praying to himself. But once the son dies for his father, he returns to his father, but their consciousnesses are still separate, but when you die you become one with both of them. You'll figure it out.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on January 20, 2020, 02:41:26 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/iVIlVbC.jpg) ;)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on January 21, 2020, 06:25:22 PM
https://twitter.com/monthly_review/status/1219749068139835393

Quote
Here is the incredible double paradox that forms the backbone of the climate-migration-industrial complex: right-wing nationalists and their politicians claim they want to deport all undocumented migrants, but if they did, they would destroy their own economy. Capitalists, on the other hand, want to grow the economy with migrant labor (any honest economist will tell you that immigration almost always leads to growth in GDP), but if that labor is too expensive, then it’s not nearly as profitable.

Trump is the Janus-faced embodiment of this anti-immigrant, pro-economy dilemma and the solution to it–not that he necessarily knows it. With one hand, migrant labor is strategically criminalized and devalorized by a xenophobic state, and with the other, it is securitized and hyper-exploited by the economy. It is a win-win situation for right-wing capitalists but a crucial element is still missing: what will continue to compel migrants to leave their homes and work as exploited criminals in an increasingly xenophobic country?

This is where the figure of the climate migrant comes in. What we call “climate migrants” or “climate refugees” are not the victims of merely “natural disasters,” because climate change is not a strictly natural process–it is also highly political. The causes of climate-related migration are disproportionately produced by rich Western countries and the effects are disproportionately suffered by poorer countries. The circumstances that determine who is forced to migrate are also influenced by the history of colonialism, global inequality, and the same conditions that have propelled economic migration for decades. In short, the fact that climate change benefits the perpetrators of climate destruction by producing an increasing supply of desperate, criminalized, physically and economically displaced laborers is no coincidence. In fact, it is the key to the Trump “solution.”

Longue duree stuff going on here.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on January 21, 2020, 07:55:56 PM
The Victorian sewage article you posted was a good read, I'll check this out. Echoes a conversation you and Esch had itt awhile back.

Unrelated: I got hired to read some resumes and give my opinion. Just read one from someone who was employed by a big brokerage firm in Orange County, California and listed "was in the office on September 11, 2001 when N floors of the firm were destroyed" as a bullet point above "Very knowledgeable about securities trading" under that employer on their resume.

:holeup
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on January 21, 2020, 09:13:04 PM
It's hard not to think they're some sort of law enforcement operation. A comparable group in the Boyle Heights part of LA is known more for menacing "gentrifying forces" than basically everyone else, though they did have a dust up with DSA LA about a food pantry
this made me think of these guys:
(https://www.messynessychic.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/2CC4338D00000578-3250078-The_Guardian_Angels_an_anti_crime_vigilante_group_that_came_to_p-a-1_1443628426857-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on January 22, 2020, 01:17:57 AM
The Victorian sewage article you posted
the what now?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on January 22, 2020, 01:22:02 AM
https://monthlyreview.org/2018/07/01/cesspools-sewage-and-social-murder/

May be misremembering, but basically no one here links MR.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on January 22, 2020, 01:34:38 AM
Wasn't me, but thank you for tonight's bedtime reading  :-*
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on January 22, 2020, 01:39:07 AM
it was jack  ;)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on January 22, 2020, 01:57:52 AM
I always accepted the dominant, critical stance of Castro, but I was doing some Wiki browsing and this Batista guy was comically villainous. Can't say I regret what came next.  :leon
Maybe some people have been unfairly maligned or atleast mischaracterized grossly, for reasons.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on January 22, 2020, 02:03:42 AM
Wasn't me, but thank you for tonight's bedtime reading  :-*

My memory is failing. :existential

How can I be the eyes and ears of the revolution now. :existential
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on January 22, 2020, 02:37:09 AM
neuroplasticity is a bitch  :(
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Trent Dole on January 22, 2020, 04:21:14 AM
https://twitter.com/EmilyGorcenski/status/1219794173764616193
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on January 22, 2020, 03:11:44 PM
https://twitter.com/CNBC/status/1219968439806255106
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Joe Molotov on January 22, 2020, 03:18:38 PM
Let Capitalism erode your society instead, but in a good way.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on January 22, 2020, 03:38:28 PM
https://twitter.com/GabrielArcari2/status/1220080763141591041
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on January 22, 2020, 04:06:27 PM
https://twitter.com/johannesf/status/984719526389518336

thought nintex was brown, but maybe that was just for zwarte! :lol
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on January 22, 2020, 04:08:47 PM
https://twitter.com/GabrielArcari2/status/1220080763141591041
these guys didn't even read the eurocommunist literature :fbm
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on January 22, 2020, 09:28:31 PM
https://twitter.com/BernieSanders/status/1220124103090343937
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on January 22, 2020, 09:42:36 PM
 :pimp
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on January 23, 2020, 07:58:58 PM
https://twitter.com/JoshuaPotash/status/1220475659031580672
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on January 23, 2020, 11:01:08 PM
https://twitter.com/jorellmelendezb/status/1220508275273277440
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on January 24, 2020, 02:00:39 AM
https://twitter.com/jkfecke/status/1220397033971953665

Checkmate socialists.

https://twitter.com/BadSunAK/status/1220440560365907970
https://twitter.com/BadSunAK/status/1220441459071115265
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on January 24, 2020, 11:29:07 PM
i'll admit to liking this even before the obvious reveal:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVWjVQ8mtZ8
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on January 25, 2020, 12:04:42 AM
https://twitter.com/the_moviebob/status/1220859093721735175

Checkmate.  :doge
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on January 25, 2020, 12:35:07 AM
https://twitter.com/Captain_HitGuy/status/1220877438223183872
https://twitter.com/Captain_HitGuy/status/1220886353400881152
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on January 25, 2020, 04:38:59 AM
https://twitter.com/queeralamode/status/1220841299420409856
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on February 01, 2020, 12:17:50 AM
https://twitter.com/kaymtye/status/1223310647703662592

The replies :lawd

Edit: she's not that bad  :doge
https://twitter.com/kaymtye/status/1223456467761582080
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on February 01, 2020, 03:01:01 PM
:science

https://twitter.com/jasonhickel/status/1223569182148694016

Who could have guessed ?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on February 01, 2020, 03:47:41 PM
i'll admit to liking this even before the obvious reveal:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVWjVQ8mtZ8

(https://i.redd.it/43mvlmxcyyc41.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on February 01, 2020, 10:12:11 PM
https://twitter.com/TrayBridgewater/status/1223799128989347845
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on February 02, 2020, 09:17:33 PM
 8)

https://twitter.com/PrettyBadLefty/status/1223628651394207744
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on February 03, 2020, 04:47:54 AM
Venezuela’s Capital Is Booming. Is This the End of the Revolution? (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/01/world/americas/Venezuela-economy-dollars.html)

Quote
On the poorer outskirts of the city, residents continue to struggle with water shortages and malnutrition. And in the countryside beyond, Venezuela is falling apart, with residents lacking even the most basic services, like electricity and the police.

But the wealthier areas dotting the capital have undergone a striking economic boom in recent months.

Shopping malls that were deserted six months ago are bustling, and imported SUVs course through the streets. New restaurants and bars are popping up weekly in the wealthier parts of town, their tables packed with foreign businessmen, fashionable locals and government insiders.

Quote
After years of nationalizing businesses, determining the exchange rate and setting the price of basic goods — measures that have long contributed to chronic shortages — Mr. Maduro seems to have made peace with the private sector and let it loose. And while the country’s economy continues to contract overall, the declining regulations have encouraged companies serving the wealthy or the export market to invest again.
The way the Times article phrases this makes it sound like they are two independent movements, the whole of the country shrinking because of Maduro, and Caracas doing quite well because of "reforms", but in fact they are the exact same motion. If the overall economy is contracting but the high income areas are growing, that means that investment is shifting from basic goods to luxury goods and capitalist consumption - at the expense of consumer goods production. That is why bars and malls are exploding. Meanwhile the rest of the country is left behind. Maduro thinks he is saving the country by allowing dollarization to occur but really he is just selling the country out.

Quote
In a sign of newfound market confidence, about 100 Venezuelan companies have applied to issue new bonds in 2019, the highest figure in a decade. The country’s biggest rum producer, Ron Santa Teresa, last week completed the country’s first new issue of shares on the local stock exchange in 11 years.

The government has slashed red tape and turned a blind eye to taxation, fueling a boom in private exports of everything from oil to chocolate, enriching the politically connected and traditional business elites.

Imports by private companies overtook those done by the state for the first time in Venezuela’s modern history last year, according to Mr. Molino, the economist.

“There’s a lot of money going around at the moment, you just need to know how to find it,” Zairet López, an accountant, said recently at a packed music festival in Caracas, which charged a $70 entry fee, or the equivalent of 14 months’ worth of the country’s minimum salary.

In short: the United States has succeeded in a bloodless regime change. The same party and the same president are still in control but the economy is quickly bending in the direction the global order has always wanted it to. Everything Chavez did is either undone or in the process of being undone. State industries are in the process of being privatized, market controls are fading away, the economy has become dollarized (say hello to dollar denominated debt...), and pre-revolution inequality is already back. For papers like the Times, it is regrettable but necessary. For Elliot Abrams it is a resounding success of maximum pressure. For the average Venezuelan, it is painfully sad.

To borrow a closing thought:
Quote
“This is savage capitalism that erases years of struggle."
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on February 03, 2020, 01:54:17 PM
Quote
Saying Google Glass was “heavy artillery in the meme war,” White held out a tin cup. He begged activists to cough up $3,000 for two pairs of Glasses and more dough for accessories and to jet to San Francisco for a “personalized 1:1 fitting experience.”

White’s fundraiser, dubbed “OccupyGlass,” read like Hammacher Schlemmer met the Communist Manifesto. Glass was a “potential force multiplier — like barricades in 1848.”
:doge
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on February 03, 2020, 04:07:49 PM
I am happy, perhaps even proud to say, that the residual elements of the Hong Kong protests have completely reinvented themselves as Coronavirus alarmists

(https://i.redd.it/xrj5qrrdlme41.jpg)

"Fight for Hong Kong. Close border."

(https://i.redd.it/rmuedxm95qe41.jpg)

(https://i.redd.it/whl137b1yoe41.png)

2400 medical workers on strike to protest Carrie Lam's refusal to close border.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
not surprised that a US sponsored anti communist movement is slowly turning into vaguely ethnic violence again :hitler
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on February 03, 2020, 04:28:01 PM
They don't speak the same language :ufup
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on February 04, 2020, 03:47:22 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/EQ2Egf3.jpg)

:phil
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on February 04, 2020, 04:19:59 PM
Me: Greedy landlords deserve that shit.

Also me: With my intense dislike for everything Berlin. I hope this failed city state gets BTFO‘d in the courts.

:larry
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on February 05, 2020, 03:31:01 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/usuSRnV.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on February 05, 2020, 03:46:46 AM
That's a cool chart. Only nitpick is... I think giving Leninism so much vertical space is a little peculiar... if you're going to make it so amorphous because of historical conditions then you might as well make it L shaped and stretch to the right for the NEP years.

Personally I'd cut off the bottom part and just make that "Luxemburgist", left-communist, or perhaps eurocommunist.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on February 05, 2020, 08:57:42 AM
Corporate Dictatorship :jeb
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on February 05, 2020, 02:34:59 PM
poli compass is only useful for memes anyway
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: thisismyusername on February 05, 2020, 03:08:26 PM
https://twitter.com/GovHowardDean/status/1225069823039811586

Will replied. :dead
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on February 05, 2020, 03:25:42 PM
I think that tweet is missing some context:

https://twitter.com/willmenaker/status/1225142456792076289
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on February 05, 2020, 08:46:09 PM
poli compass is only useful for memes anyway
this is the proper system:
(https://i.imgur.com/GnXpyIJ.png)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on February 08, 2020, 06:36:50 PM
https://twitter.com/ibrahimpols/status/1225927067163865088

Wut.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on February 08, 2020, 07:03:30 PM
boreans support only the most necessary of class wars
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on February 08, 2020, 08:14:59 PM
https://twitter.com/ibrahimpols/status/1225927067163865088

Wut.

mrw I get so upset that I forget I'm wearing a mask
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: nachobro on February 08, 2020, 08:51:21 PM
"donald trump has given billionaires a bad name" ::) :lol
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on February 09, 2020, 03:43:09 PM
 :lol

https://twitter.com/okcupid/status/1225837880372649986

https://twitter.com/jezawatson/status/1226288432810426368
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on February 09, 2020, 04:10:59 PM
Quote
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. Attorney General William Barr said on Thursday the United States and its allies should consider the highly unusual step of taking a "controlling stake" in Finland's Nokia and Sweden's Ericsson to counter China-based Huawei's dominance in next-generation 5G wireless technology.

In a remarkable statement underscoring how far the United States may be willing to go to counter Huawei Technologies Co, Barr disclosed in a speech at a conference on Chinese economic espionage that there had been proposals to meet the concerns "by the United States aligning itself with Nokia and/or Ericsson."

Barr said the alignment could take place "through American ownership of a controlling stake, either directly or through a consortium of private American and allied companies."
When conservatism morphs into militarist corporatism :money
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on February 09, 2020, 06:26:22 PM
In... *squints*... Ecuador?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on February 09, 2020, 08:52:55 PM
currpost... I was being a little jocular when I posted that thing earlier about the dalliance between business and fascism but I did read that Luxemburg pamphlet Esch posted... a phrase that turns up a lot in her literature is the "historic task of defeating militarism". Of course she was right about everything. And when I saw that news today those words went off in my head like a klaxon. We really do live in historic times again. In the coming decades, it really is our central task to reject death and war. There can't be any compromise.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on February 09, 2020, 10:09:06 PM
All these DSA darlings, The Squad - take a look at their non-domestic policies. These people, our supposed "leaders" have the same outlook as Mike Pompeo.
Gonna disagree with this. Rose twitter went pretty hard in the paint when Venezuela happened, when Bolivia happened, and when Iran was escalating. In fact they were the only people making a ruckus. Meanwhile, people who call themselves progressives but try to split the difference between moderates and innanet socialists, those guys all recognized Guaido and kept their mouth shut about sanctions and the foreign policy apparatus. I don't have any complaints.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on February 09, 2020, 10:37:26 PM
In... *squints*... Ecuador?

God bless that nation, and its people for this chocolate.

(https://static.lindt.ca/en/shop/media/catalog/product/cache/6/thumbnail/405x400/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/l/i/lindt_excellencebar100g_ecuador.png)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on February 09, 2020, 10:41:49 PM
Comparing Bernie with AOC and Omar is hard to do because one has been in office for decades and the other two have been in office for one year. And Pressley is a moderate. As far as AOC and Omar are concerned, the only vote I can think of regarding China was the Hong Kong one which passed the House and the Senate unanimously, and all it said was that the state department should monitor conditions in Hong Kong. With all the usual caveats about Hong Kong's role as a wedge for foreign interests and its 1 in 7 citizens are a millionaire thing, I think it's pretty uncontroversial to support democracy in Hong Kong. There's really just no debating that.

Bernie can suck. He says we should label China a currency manipulator and stop trading with them. But he's also dapped CCP for lifting more people out of poverty in a shorter time than anyone else ever has. My opinion about that is that we've always known Bernie sucks but it's usually from a place of complete disinterest and not some kind of nationalist antagonism.

But this is kind of moving the goal posts a little. Yes, we were originally talking about Chinese xenophobia and superpower conflict - but you brought up the coming climate wars and our respect for the global south, so I was just expounding on that point. I think the demsoc crew is quite good when it comes to highlighting the violent conflict between center and periphery. We should give people credit where credit is due.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on February 10, 2020, 01:02:02 AM
https://www.econlib.org/is-bernie-sanders-a-crypto-communist-a-bayesian-analysis/ (https://www.econlib.org/is-bernie-sanders-a-crypto-communist-a-bayesian-analysis/) :crazy
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on February 10, 2020, 01:08:29 AM
Quote
1. What’s the probability of Sanders’ track record if he is a crypto-communist?  Here, I’d go high.  Most crypto-communists in Sanders’ position would be look like him.  I give this 75%.

2. What’s the probability of Sanders’ track record if he isn’t a crypto-communist?  Sanders view have long been extremely unpopular, but quite a few non-communists on the radical left would have shared them.  So I’ll give this 1.2%.
What's the probability this needs an editor?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on February 10, 2020, 01:18:06 AM
Bernie's voted for imperialist war  multiple times
I'm glad you've finally changed your mind about the Yugoslav Wars (http://www.thebore.com/forum/index.php?topic=45863.msg2620769#msg2620769) :hitler

His only other failure seems to be the Iraq Liberation Act. But that Act happened after years of Saddam flouting the UN. And when push came to shove, when Clinton announced airstrikes on Iraq, Sanders condemned it and said military force should only happen after UN consensus. I'm not saying he's perfect, but you're giving him a lot more flak than he deserves.

With respect to upholding the 'common sense' of the state department line on a color revolution.... as you said there's no debate to be had so we'll agree to disagree!
:leon
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on February 10, 2020, 01:34:27 AM
I don’t see how the soc dem contingent in the democratic party doesn’t moderate hard if/when they start wielding actual power. esp. in foreign policy. bernard brother twitter can agonize over the squad’s leftist bonafides in social and economic justice in the domestic sphere and thats all well and good, but international relations are a whole nother ballgame, one thats not so much dominated by as literally comprehensively composed of state department officials, the intelligence community, and the armed forces. there is no interest group in washington of the same size/influence that is as ideologically homogeneous and there is straight up no countervailing complex of institutions from which to compile an alternative roster of foreign policy officials, much less a ‘leftist’ one (theres an analogous problem in political economy; after, inshallah, the berndawg sets up camp in the white house, I’m anticipating some of his rose emoji constituency to nauseate at the inevitable neoliberalisation of his policy agenda -if, ya know, it passes in the first place.). theres also no route to pressure his administration towards a more leftward approach in international relations with the coalition he’s trying to build*, if anything, the opposite’s the case.

none of this is to gainsay that he’d definitely be a better commander in chief than any of the other ghouls we’ve ever had to pick from, its to say that theres a lot more inertia here than some who are down with the revolution want to admit.

*except maybe israel-palestine
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on February 10, 2020, 01:41:40 AM
theres also no route to pressure his administration towards a more leftward approach in international relations with the coalition he’s trying to build*, if anything, the opposite’s the case.
it just dawned on me that some of the low income families that make up the bulk of our volunteer soldiery might actually have an interest in not seeing their kids die, so who knows? :whatsthedeal
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on February 10, 2020, 01:53:21 AM
It was funny how the ILA vote came up in the discourse cause it was right after Warren got pummeled for her "Soleimani was bad but we shouldn't have done that" take, so Bernie fans had to immediately pull a 180 (actually condemning or calling for the ouster of a foreign leader is fine!). But pointing out that people with poster brain get hypocritical is fish in a barrel and not really relevant.

As far as how bad the vote itself really was, I think it's fair to say that if you vote to make regime change of some country in MENA the explicit policy of the United States of America, how do you think that's going to go down? Maybe he didn't expect a full on ground invasion and occupation but the other likely avenues weren't that pretty either.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on February 10, 2020, 01:58:10 AM
Exactly as Eisenhower (and Trump) warned about the professional managerial class.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on February 10, 2020, 02:00:30 AM
Piggybacking on jake's post, worth noting how much even Obama got pushback from the domestic FP establishment as well as US allies for his less hawkish efforts. There were stories running in the New Yorker wondering why he wasn't doing more in Syria. His first Secretary of Defense wrote a book criticizing him for not trusting the Saudi government enough!
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on February 10, 2020, 02:01:54 AM
A lot of criticism around his "red line" statement was how it made us look weak to decide circumstances had changed.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on February 10, 2020, 02:06:33 AM
But pointing out that people with poster brain get hypocritical is fish in a barrel and not really relevant.
Look, it's taking longer than I thought for the Hitchens infection to leave my brain. Thinking about flying to Russia for treatment.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on February 10, 2020, 02:07:49 AM
I was listening to an arms control  podcast during the JCPOA negotiations, and when Obama said something about the agreement being a possible first step on a path towards US-Iranian reconciliation, they were openly mocking it as a gaffe that would "rightfully" freak out Saudi Arabia and the gulf states.

And these are the people who chose to specialize in arms control, who you could expect to be on the dovish/internationalist end of the FP establishment spectrum.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on February 10, 2020, 02:24:19 AM
Yep. The levers of power are huge, they're inaccessible to public office, and they're directly beholden to the interests of capital.
there’s even a hot n ready revleft take on this: soc dem’s robust wealth transfer schemes are just as implicated in the exploitation of their periphery as their rightward neighbor’s liberal regimes are. of course they’d take up the mantle of enforcing empire when it comes to be their time in the driver seat.

Quote
Since the CIA is running candidates in broad daylight (not just talking about Buttigieg) and nobody really cares aside from Twitter leftists I see the chance of an about face from elected officials on foreign policy unlikely.
slightly related cause you just reminded me -what about the volte face from the jacobin-and-adjacent intelligentsia who’ve put all their eggs in bernie’s basket?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on February 10, 2020, 02:31:54 AM
This conversation is missing an important voice:
https://www.mikebloomberg.com/policies/foreign-policy
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on February 10, 2020, 02:38:05 AM
[snip]
yeah and this is just like, wrt anti-war. if you wanted anti-interventionism and positive (meaningful) support for democratic causes abroad, you’d have to entangle their self-interests with those people we’re potentially intervening in or supporting. and those voluntary associations would have to be transnational, extra-state, and also something that holds actual bargaining power over states. so good luck with that
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on February 10, 2020, 03:21:13 AM
They can eat the L and say it's the opening of a movement (technically they aren't wrong if you ignore or misinterpret 200 years of history).
Idk what specifically you’re referring to in the parenthetical, but I do think this might be an actual watershed moment in us politics. like the start of a seventh party system, or whatever the fuck benji says we’re supposed to be on now. the weight of the neoliberal consensus between carter and barry o has splintered the floorboards enough that figures like bernard and the donald have managed to slip through. and while the latter’s administration has obv been in 98% continuity with the pre-2015 GOP, that 2%, which mostly consists in style and outward facing appearance rather than anything substantive, is non-trivial. they also can’t affect any of their agenda and it’s not merely because trump is an idiot who surrounds himself with idiots, it’s because modern american conservatism is ineffectual, and ineffectual because it’s accomplished most everything it set out to do already.

and bernie’s ‘movement’, is gonna have more sticking power than i think your post anticipates. those generational differences in polling tell a really important story; a plurality of people under 35 have effectively been radicalized by left fascism, and it’ll keep trending in that direction as long as dissatisfaction with the center of american politics is high.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on February 10, 2020, 02:42:23 PM
https://twitter.com/means_tv/status/1226891259656142848

this service is going to flop so hard
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on February 10, 2020, 02:51:01 PM
 :holeup

Ah yes, cats, the animal famously kept for functionality and the pet people just won't shut up about all the things they've taught to do.


(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/38/5c/dd/385cdd3eae95a5cd3b1bbaa7267b2e95.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Joe Molotov on February 10, 2020, 02:57:30 PM
:cat
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on February 10, 2020, 03:00:24 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/e4soCne.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on February 10, 2020, 04:23:11 PM
Sorry, I wrote half of that while i was passing out and it's pretty incoherent. I agree with you that the neoliberal mode of production is nearing it's end, what will come out of it is up to various factors. I'm not sure where else stagnant or crisis capital can turn in its latest series of death throes for rejuvenation but it won't be pretty. We've seen an imperial core nation in hospice and the right wing always wins - contrast with the more mixed results of the periphery. As you've noted the timing of it all is bizarre. On it's face the movements obv the movements aren't that extreme. Donald's fascism would be normal to many nations under the comprador jackboot, and Bernie would be a centre-left politician elsewhere, but the fact that it's even happening here is notable.

 I guess what I'm trying to get across is that even if they are successful on any level, the counterrevolution will be swift and vicious. I think people are stunned by the workings of Iowa and they're getting the first taste of what socialists of all stripes in the economic periphery get every day, what they are simply not ready for is blackshirts in the streets breaking legs. I think they'll fail because I think the social basis for actual, heiling fascism is not just strong but the baseline of american society. And i think when push comes to shove when the cards really get on the table thanks to climate change these closed borders social democrats will not become internationalists.
https://twitter.com/Brett_Fairchild/status/1226948904815595522
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on February 10, 2020, 08:02:17 PM
For the sake of the bernard critiques, I gotta say the shift away from complaining about millionaires to billionaires for him is a little something.
Reading up about the latest shenanigans of multi-millionaires like Loughlin and feeling disdain.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on February 10, 2020, 11:20:11 PM
edit: whatever and ever, amen
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on February 10, 2020, 11:53:24 PM
if your points just that the chapos arent good brainthinkers then i think we’re all in agreement

as much of an autist as i wanna be about plebs getting the s word wrong, de-chudifying america after a century+ of  firm-as-fiefdom agitprop is a little more important right now than capital-t Theory
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on February 11, 2020, 12:04:38 AM
That isn't my point, actually. I'm just annoyed by their attitude and the "bend the knee" shit. It's intensely alienating to other people.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on February 11, 2020, 06:37:49 PM
...did you guys donate to Means TV yet? :vr
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on February 11, 2020, 07:14:04 PM
https://twitter.com/ebruenig/status/1227367845606109184

I love Matt sometimes :dead
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on February 12, 2020, 12:17:30 AM
smugness of internet lefties reminded me of this

(https://i.imgur.com/C9US5Tz.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on February 12, 2020, 04:10:54 PM
if your points just that the chapos arent good brainthinkers then i think we’re all in agreement

as much of an autist as i wanna be about plebs getting the s word wrong, de-chudifying america after a century+ of  firm-as-fiefdom agitprop is a little more important right now than capital-t Theory

Didn't see shosta's post but piggybacking off this a bit I've been somewhat surprised by the degree to which Sandersismo has become hegemonic on the left in my mostly anecdotal experience, drawing in support from both ideologically adjacent wings: people who are generally left but were turned off in 2016 by the evangelical tone of his supporters and weren't primed to break with more orthodox Democratic politics yet and radicals who were skeptical of voting at all and have become more open to a hybrid electoral/direct action approach. I expected more discord tbh. The aggrandizing tendencies of the Chapos and the Jacobin set of his supporters are definitely obnoxious (Bernie or we're all doomed!) but easier to overlook now that the primary is underway and there's something to distract the left's interest from navel-gazing over the flaws of its celebrities.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on February 12, 2020, 04:46:16 PM
now that the primary is underway and there's something to distract the left's interest from navel-gazing over the flaws of its celebrities.

Roughly same dynamic as moving from primaries to general election for normal party politics, isn't it? Hating on Mayor Pete smooths over the differences, the way hating on Trump will among casual Dems.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on February 12, 2020, 04:54:14 PM
Pretty much
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on February 13, 2020, 03:52:13 PM
speaking of people getting irrationally mad at the chapo hosts :dead

https://twitter.com/willmenaker/status/1228043350990868486
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on February 13, 2020, 05:00:34 PM
paul krugman, thank you for upholding ML thought  :betty
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on February 13, 2020, 10:12:19 PM
Quote
when's the last time you read the Illiad or the Odyssey in the original Homeric Greek? When's the last time you had a student come to your office at the University of Iowa to cry and express her doubt that she had what it took to complete your course?
newsfeed
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on February 14, 2020, 02:29:41 PM
https://twitter.com/Raiders/status/1220136133339811840

MD2020!
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on February 14, 2020, 07:25:39 PM
centrists, the true final boss

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/05/23/opinion/international-world/centrists-democracy.html
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on February 14, 2020, 08:33:05 PM
https://twitter.com/_rshapiro/status/1228096570278563840

This is completely unacceptable behavior. This needs to be shared as widely as possible.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on February 15, 2020, 01:52:17 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/66T224q.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on February 15, 2020, 01:53:08 AM
Isn't that just the normal state of feudal politics - if you can't enforce your succession through hard and soft power, you lose it?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on February 15, 2020, 01:58:08 AM
Shhh.

But if we're going to get technical, it's a bit earlier than that. Although you could pretty well argue that the major regular European succession wars essentially proved the system never truly went away.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on February 15, 2020, 02:55:49 AM
Amateur hour there.
Here
https://www.reddit.com/r/CommunoCapitalism/comments/e1m1hc/communo_capitalism_shall_rise_again/
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on February 15, 2020, 04:12:36 AM
https://twitter.com/helloitsthao/status/1228581489698361344
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: toku on February 15, 2020, 01:53:24 PM
https://twitter.com/scottsantens/status/1228481712465813504
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on February 15, 2020, 06:41:43 PM
https://twitter.com/chrisdonato04/status/1228769913394741249

 :lol
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on February 15, 2020, 06:44:20 PM
https://www.pressherald.com/2020/02/06/u-s-senate-candidate-selects-guillotine-as-symbol-of-the-work-we-have-to-do/
Quote
A U.S. Senate candidate in Maine has selected an unusual logo for campaign T-shirts – the guillotine – citing the need for a revolution to remove big money from politics.

The logo, unveiled this week by Democrat Bre Kidman, recalls the execution device known for its role in the 18th century French Revolution and is intended to symbolize revolt by low- and middle-income people, Kidman said.

“The guillotine is an image which calls to mind what people have done for revolution before,” said Kidman, an attorney who’s running for the seat held by Republican Sen. Susan Collins. “If we can find a better path to revolution than that we owe it to ourselves and our country.”
Quote
Kidman said the campaign, which had raised about $16,000 by the end of last year, stopped actively fundraising in July. Merchandise, including t-shirts, patches and buttons, with the new logo is not for sale and instead will be given away to people who want to talk about the campaign ideas with fellow Mainers.

Kidman said the logo is not supposed to be taken literally.

“We’re not going to start a guillotine in Monument Square (in Portland) and start beheading people,” Kidman said. “It’s a symbol of the work we have to do to overcome flaws in our system – flaws that have become deeply evident in the last few weeks.”
https://twitter.com/BeeKay4ME/status/1225177542853828608
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on February 15, 2020, 08:20:51 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/l5t9uCh.png)

How long do you guys think she lasts at the times
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on February 16, 2020, 03:01:26 PM
Liking your post in part because of this insanity you just introduced me to

https://twitter.com/ClaraSorrenti/status/1229123324652986369

https://twitter.com/ClaraSorrenti/status/1229126072693903362

https://twitter.com/ClaraSorrenti/status/1229127257752588290

Is this how we finally get benji on board?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on February 16, 2020, 03:03:41 PM
https://twitter.com/ClaraSorrenti/status/1229129080790028288

:dead

edit: I just realized this goes back days and days.  :doge
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on February 16, 2020, 03:17:16 PM
Who is the CPP? Communist Party of Peru? We shining path now?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on February 16, 2020, 03:20:50 PM
Duterte just ended our visiting forces agreement because he wants to go full China sphere of influence  :doge
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on February 16, 2020, 03:22:19 PM
shosti, you gotta get in on that  :bolo
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on February 16, 2020, 03:26:15 PM
cpp supporting the hongkie protests
https://twitter.com/damoj/status/1048500649027985414
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on February 16, 2020, 03:32:14 PM
 :lol
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on February 16, 2020, 03:59:21 PM
shosti, you gotta get in on that  :bolo
:gurl
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on February 16, 2020, 07:23:33 PM
these black flag people offer such interesting takes

https://twitter.com/postje1917/status/1226840520841928704
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on February 17, 2020, 02:36:28 AM
:salute
(https://images.wisconsinhistory.org/700007040029/0704000320-l.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on February 17, 2020, 02:40:41 AM
I learned about the existence of Distributism in my meme tap.
I don't get it, cool logo though.

(https://completechristianity.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/the-hound-of-distribuitism-edited.jpg?w=736)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on February 17, 2020, 02:47:03 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/cY7OguC.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on February 18, 2020, 12:11:44 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EGtO7A4U8AAz3rm?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on February 18, 2020, 09:03:27 AM
Truly a modern Renaissance man.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on February 18, 2020, 10:41:58 PM
c'mere benjimans

https://twitter.com/hilaryagro/status/1229177598003077123
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on February 18, 2020, 10:45:21 PM
I don't have feelings, why would other people have them?

spoiler (click to show/hide)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksJpuznVJFM
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on February 19, 2020, 12:50:19 PM
https://twitter.com/peakyeyes/status/1229988750031114241

 :hmm
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on February 20, 2020, 04:18:26 AM
https://twitter.com/jennineak/status/1230418805194514433
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on February 20, 2020, 02:33:23 PM
 ::)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on February 20, 2020, 03:37:33 PM
https://twitter.com/anyaparampil/status/1230590704151388160
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on February 20, 2020, 08:48:35 PM
BisMarckie's Hegel 2020 Project status update: I have bought Encyclopedia of the Philosophical Sciences and held the books in my hands once by unpacking them. Felt pretty smart doing that tbh. :ego
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on February 20, 2020, 09:40:34 PM
(https://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/whoa.png) guys, going through kant and hegel is cool and fine, but you don’t have to read everyone in the canonTM. best piece of advice someone can give you is don’t let reading get in the way of things you actually want to read. you’ll better understand marx, or whoever, just by reading marx.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on February 20, 2020, 09:47:31 PM
My favorite professor was a huge Hegel stan, he unironically had the position that all philosophy ended with Hegel.

I thought to myself: Well if he is that good, I'll have to read his magnum opus one day.

But here I am shitposting on a neogaf splinter forum. :fbm

Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: El Babua on February 20, 2020, 09:56:00 PM
Honestly a better use of your time
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on February 20, 2020, 10:12:46 PM
dialectics
part of what you find out is that this is just a giant red herring getting in the way of actually understanding anything. not in the sense that ‘it’ is bullshit, but in the sense that ‘it’ depends entirely on who’s talking and how theyre using it.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on February 20, 2020, 10:25:18 PM
Stolen from NeoGAF.com during the 504 Gateway Error Period: https://www.idrlabs.com/communism/test.php
Quote
The IDRlabs Communist Beliefs Test (IDR-CBT©) was developed by IDRlabs International. The IDR-CBT is based on principles developed by notable communists such as Marx and Engels. The IDR-CBT is not associated with any specific researchers in the fields of political psychology or sociology, or any affiliated research institutions.

The IDRlabs Communist Beliefs Test was informed by classic works of literature and the historical foundations of Marxist communism to create this free online test. As a political ideology, proponents of communism believe that society’s resources should be communally shared, while social classes should be eliminated. IDRlabs International and the present IDRlabs Communist Beliefs Test are independent from any researchers who have produced work in the area of communism or any such related topics.

The current test was created by professionals certified in the delivery and scoring of numerous psychological measures, who have worked professionally in various fields of psychology including social psychology, political psychology, and personality testing.


spoiler (click to show/hide)
(https://i.imgur.com/xtFIoaG.png)

spoiler (click to show/hide)
I got like third highest score on the new NeoGAF.com. :doge
[close]
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on February 20, 2020, 10:35:43 PM
33 %

higher than benji, which means he should be the first in the gulag after the revolution, not me.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on February 20, 2020, 10:39:43 PM
I just want to read hegel for hegel.
this is a good look. one of the biggest things i’m alluding to above is that virtually everyone points to hegel when they need to explain ‘dialectics’ and it turns out that that’s just an awful way of understanding what’s going on in the phenomenology or the rest of his system. there’s a kernel of truth to it, but the term brings too much osmotic baggage with it, to the point where it’s better to just scrap it and start with a clean sheet
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on February 20, 2020, 10:40:13 PM
A 24%er is someone who can help implement land and copyright reform while not being a threat to leadership, a 33%er sounds more like someone who will make doctrinal disputes and try to challenge centralism.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on February 20, 2020, 10:44:56 PM
35%

what's the labour camp cutoff?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on February 21, 2020, 01:11:55 AM
https://twitter.com/ohplease_DEAR/status/1230721396038201344
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on February 21, 2020, 02:57:06 PM
(https://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/whoa.png) guys, going through kant and hegel is cool and fine, but you don’t have to read everyone in the canonTM. best piece of advice someone can give you is don’t let reading get in the way of things you actually want to read. you’ll better understand marx, or whoever, just by reading marx.
https://twitter.com/LassPeaches/status/1230942720975233024

 :ufup
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on February 21, 2020, 02:59:18 PM
prolific incel Jake will disregard that due to feminine pronouns 
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on February 21, 2020, 05:09:15 PM
https://twitter.com/josiahsilas/status/1230872204335775745
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on February 21, 2020, 05:57:24 PM
Stolen from NeoGAF.com during the 504 Gateway Error Period: https://www.idrlabs.com/communism/test.php
Quote
The IDRlabs Communist Beliefs Test (IDR-CBT©) was developed by IDRlabs International. The IDR-CBT is based on principles developed by notable communists such as Marx and Engels. The IDR-CBT is not associated with any specific researchers in the fields of political psychology or sociology, or any affiliated research institutions.

The IDRlabs Communist Beliefs Test was informed by classic works of literature and the historical foundations of Marxist communism to create this free online test. As a political ideology, proponents of communism believe that society’s resources should be communally shared, while social classes should be eliminated. IDRlabs International and the present IDRlabs Communist Beliefs Test are independent from any researchers who have produced work in the area of communism or any such related topics.

The current test was created by professionals certified in the delivery and scoring of numerous psychological measures, who have worked professionally in various fields of psychology including social psychology, political psychology, and personality testing.


spoiler (click to show/hide)
(https://i.imgur.com/xtFIoaG.png)

spoiler (click to show/hide)
I got like third highest score on the new NeoGAF.com. :doge
[close]
[close]

This quiz might be even worse than the political compass one

spoiler (click to show/hide)
64%
spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm a dirty democratic socialist  :brazilcry
[close]
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on February 22, 2020, 12:08:06 AM
browsing elsewhere on idrlabs
https://www.idrlabs.com/villain/test.php

Quote
The 20 murderous villains are: Heinrich Himmler, Joseph Goebbels, Hermann Goering, Adolf Hitler, Albert Speer, Karl Doenitz, Rudolf Hess, Joachim von Ribbentrop, Joseph Stalin, Vladimir Putin, Vladimir Lenin, Mao Zedong, Che Guevara, Ulrike Meinhof, Osama bin Laden, Ruhollah Khomeini, Saddam Hussein, Benito Mussolini, Idi Amin, and Muammar Gaddafi.

 :doge
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on February 22, 2020, 11:47:06 AM
browsing elsewhere on idrlabs
https://www.idrlabs.com/villain/test.php
They have two separate pyschopath tests.

Also:
https://www.idrlabs.com/libertarian/test.php
Quote
You are 89% Libertarian, which makes you a Hardcore Libertarian.
Watch out, we've got a badass over here.
:notlikethis
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on February 22, 2020, 11:57:57 AM
Of course not. How do you know that's not the 11% I missed!!!!!!! Seriously, I didn't get 100%! Not at all! 11 as a percentage or age is much too small!
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on February 22, 2020, 12:00:01 PM
browsing elsewhere on idrlabs
https://www.idrlabs.com/villain/test.php
They have two separate pyschopath tests.

Also:
https://www.idrlabs.com/libertarian/test.php
Quote
You are 89% Libertarian, which makes you a Hardcore Libertarian.
Watch out, we've got a badass over here.
:notlikethis

When a personality test is secretly a direct attack against you.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on February 22, 2020, 12:05:53 PM
https://www.idrlabs.com/political-left-right/test.php
Quote
Left / Right Test
Based on the scientific work of John R. Hibbing, Kevin B. Smith and John R. Alford, this test aims to guess your political orientation based on your lifestyle.
I got 75% left-wing, this is why I can hide in plain sight despite being a badass.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on February 22, 2020, 12:11:07 PM
Hang on, what do purple carrots or reading about sports tell me about my political leaning?
Am I already on an anticommunist watch list?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on February 22, 2020, 12:14:48 PM
Quote
Philosophical discussions are mostly:

 Boring
 Fun
 Pointless



Where is the ‚all of the above‘ option? :bolo
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on February 22, 2020, 12:15:17 PM
Stro out here trying to smear me when he was a CENTRIST the whole time. :karen
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on February 22, 2020, 12:17:40 PM
(https://www.idrlabs.com/graphic/political-left-right?i=12&p=40,60&l=EN)

It was the arugula, wasn‘t it? :existential
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on February 22, 2020, 12:24:21 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/WX9CllG.png)

Fuck, this proves that I'm Joe Rogan.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: nachobro on February 22, 2020, 12:25:56 PM
guess i have to vote for trump daddy over berndawg now :-\

(https://i.imgur.com/dXL0Qfq.png)

i said that i like arugala AND i'd try the purple carrots and i still end up with this :thinking
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on February 22, 2020, 12:27:42 PM
centrists to the left of me, centrists to the right of me :notlikethis
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on February 22, 2020, 12:28:29 PM
The #1 question for discerning political stances from ostensibly non-political questions would be "Agree or disagree: college basketball is more entertaining to watch than the NBA because of the teamwork and fundamentals."
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on February 22, 2020, 12:29:55 PM
it's because you guys are all thinking of this and picking country music:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNVguvNE7qc
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on February 22, 2020, 12:31:39 PM
The #1 question for discerning political stances from ostensibly non-political questions would be "Agree or disagree: college basketball is more entertaining to watch than the NBA because of the teamwork and fundamentals."

What if I enjoy college hoops more because the crowds are more into it?

Third way wins again :klob
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on February 22, 2020, 03:07:00 PM
https://www.idrlabs.com/political-left-right/test.php
Quote
Left / Right Test
Based on the scientific work of John R. Hibbing, Kevin B. Smith and John R. Alford, this test aims to guess your political orientation based on your lifestyle.
I got 75% left-wing, this is why I can hide in plain sight despite being a badass.

Solidly right wing
Guess we're deporting purple carrots and invading arugula

Quote
You are 0% Libertarian, which makes you Not Libertarian.

In your case it is safe to say that you are *not* a libertarian. Whether because you prefer a greater degree of social discipline or economic regulation (or possibly both), you probably tend to find large swatches of the libertarian program to be far-fetched, extremist, and possibly even downright repulsive. If you are not the argumentative type, you had best stay clear of libertarians - they have a reputation for being insufferable in an argument.

Sounds good to me, man.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: toku on February 22, 2020, 06:12:51 PM
https://twitter.com/hellakyra/status/1230999706785980419
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on February 22, 2020, 08:26:17 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/9rJ6FkV.jpg)

:win
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on February 22, 2020, 08:32:32 PM
Quote
You are 0% Libertarian, which makes you Not Libertarian.

In your case it is safe to say that you are *not* a libertarian. Whether because you prefer a greater degree of social discipline or economic regulation (or possibly both), you probably tend to find large swatches of the libertarian program to be far-fetched, extremist, and possibly even downright repulsive. If you are not the argumentative type, you had best stay clear of libertarians - they have a reputation for being insufferable in an argument.

:trumps
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on February 23, 2020, 01:37:28 AM
.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on February 23, 2020, 01:48:26 AM
Just work a bit harder bro, and you can be just like O'Leary!
Just tug the bootstraps more than your avocado toast dick

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuqemytQ5QA
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on February 23, 2020, 01:56:37 AM
Well, judging from family, on the topic of happiness. There'd be hardships for sure but I think the strong sense of community, belonging, and peers makes a big difference. That and life-long adversity shapes you as a person differently. So that I, the second-gen, am much more squishier than older relatives. Some lame, but rather mundane and stable employment after growing up in real hardship must seem a breeze.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on February 23, 2020, 02:58:21 PM
why you hiding your care posts punkass
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on February 23, 2020, 03:28:31 PM
https://twitter.com/SleepyDjango/status/1231669007100436480
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on February 23, 2020, 08:09:56 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/l5t9uCh.png)

How long do you guys think she lasts at the times
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ERgJqOBXkAYe7US?format=jpg&name=small)

pushing it
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on February 23, 2020, 08:58:10 PM
Speaking of those online tests, anybody ever made one? I tried to use a site that you could make them on to make a Star Trek one ages ago and it had the worst UI so I gave up.

Probably is just a simple thing to code yourself. :lol
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on February 23, 2020, 09:02:38 PM
what kind of test would you make
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on February 23, 2020, 09:02:55 PM
Working on: Which Bore mod are you?
Currently still in development.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on February 23, 2020, 09:07:48 PM
Working on: Which Bore mod are you?
Currently still in development.

Where will you post your hog?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on February 23, 2020, 09:13:42 PM
No matter what I really want to use it for, I promise to make a TRUE Political Compass test with lots of serious well-worded questions but in reality all the results are just anarchist, MODERATE CENTRIST, communist or fascist.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on February 23, 2020, 10:00:40 PM
I'm ashamed I ever took political tests seriously.
Teenage girls taking those Buzzfeed-tier quizzes was something I looked down upon but poli-quizzes are on a much lower level since you get overly invested in it :'(
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on February 24, 2020, 02:46:42 PM
I've been getting into Ralph Miliband (pls don't call me a reformist) and when I found out who his son was... :rofl

If you're a socialist please don't ever have children. They will only disappoint you and develop serious eating disorders:

(https://images.spot.im/v1/production/m17vrnxnhutuasuojm09)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EB-ntcSWwAAVGTm.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on February 24, 2020, 05:21:38 PM
There's a whole Wikipedia page for that photo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Miliband_bacon_sandwich_photograph
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on February 24, 2020, 05:26:48 PM
https://twitter.com/Mike2020/status/1232056524681482240

https://twitter.com/Mike2020/status/1232056526145277953
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Pissy F Benny on February 24, 2020, 05:27:49 PM
Will boot edge edge recreate the edstone too  :thinking
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on February 24, 2020, 05:58:11 PM
There's a whole Wikipedia page for that photo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Miliband_bacon_sandwich_photograph

Why is he doing the Pete Buttigieg thing when he eats?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on February 24, 2020, 06:00:21 PM
probably on some type of amphetamine tbh :doge
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Joe Molotov on February 24, 2020, 09:01:56 PM
There's a whole Wikipedia page for that photo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Miliband_bacon_sandwich_photograph

Quote
the snack was put into the custody of Lord Wood, a senior shadow cabinet member

Sounds ominous.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on February 25, 2020, 12:36:22 AM
paul krugman, thank you for upholding ML thought  :betty
https://www.democracynow.org/2020/2/24/paul_krugman_richard_wolff_socialism_debate

he's still doing it :dead
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on February 25, 2020, 12:43:00 AM
Quote
PAUL KRUGMAN: By the way, I don’t think — I don’t think the people who send me hate mail think — and I am the king of hate mail — think that I’m a centrist. Right? I’m for universal healthcare. I’m for deficit spending on infrastructure. I’m for universal child care. If that’s centrism, then, you know, let’s have it. By that standard, Denmark is centrist, right?
I am the king of hate mail
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on February 25, 2020, 12:48:14 AM
Have you seen the comments on his blog? There are few men so thoroughly reviled
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on February 25, 2020, 12:53:22 AM
I know Paul Krugman and Thomas Friedman are two different people, but I have a hard time separating them in my head. One of them wrote a book how an iPod was the technology of the future that I read when I was younger, and I thought this fucker must be astounding constantly with shit.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on February 25, 2020, 07:59:05 PM
reading through the cuba stuff yields funny stuff

https://twitter.com/RafaelXofGod/status/1232381797352255492

https://twitter.com/RafaelXofGod/status/1232467654570463232

https://twitter.com/FeliciaFila202/status/1232462558096838657

:jawalrus

 :bow

https://twitter.com/SanaSaeed/status/1232127588904161281

 :bow2
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BIONIC on February 26, 2020, 09:03:04 AM
@filler:

https://youtu.be/Rr3xjqUO-R4
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Brehvolution on February 26, 2020, 09:50:30 AM
Bernie never wrote love letters to kim jong un, believed putin when he said he didn't meddle in our elections, or let edrogan thugs beat on Americans on American soil.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on February 26, 2020, 03:15:26 PM
https://twitter.com/BTnewsroom/status/1232724636258963457
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on February 26, 2020, 04:51:27 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/zXSZP1l.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on February 27, 2020, 05:10:45 PM
smh at you commies not catching the most important bit of Das Kapital

(https://i.redd.it/auh9w2qt3cj41.png)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Flannel Boy on February 27, 2020, 05:18:58 PM
From each according to his ability.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on February 28, 2020, 03:56:55 PM
https://twitter.com/michacardenas/status/1233494860876931074

unbelievable.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on February 28, 2020, 10:35:00 PM
https://twitter.com/CourtneySoliday/status/1233236833590562816

:dead make it stahp
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on February 29, 2020, 02:52:36 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/uIsz0Nj.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on March 01, 2020, 02:41:51 PM
https://monthlyreview.org/2020/03/01/hyman-minsky-at-100-was-minsky-a-communist/

MR publishing an article on Hyman Minsky's socialism...

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/001/480/Screenshot_168.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on March 02, 2020, 05:22:36 PM
https://twitter.com/profwolff/status/1234542990376480770

Big Dick Wolff :lawd
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 03, 2020, 03:47:08 PM
I've noticed an uptick of people taking the route of "no revolution and return to normalcy"
Like this usual suspect

https://twitter.com/JRubinBlogger/status/1234675066886995968

This seems like generalized bougie clutching onto power phase of society, is there a specific term for it I just recall the description. I wanna read into it.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 03, 2020, 11:05:35 PM
starting to read

(https://monthlyreview.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/mrp5779-e1450731839974.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on March 04, 2020, 02:51:18 AM


https://twitter.com/Tom_Fowdy/status/1235102396595888128
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 04, 2020, 02:55:36 AM
That book owns, probably helps to read Lenin's imperialism + first couple chapters of capital vol1 if u haven't cus a lot of the arguments follow from there imo

yeah, I'm at a loss at some points but it is presented/written such that the author actually intended for people to read it
bit depressing, poor Bangladeshis :goty
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on March 04, 2020, 03:00:03 AM
https://twitter.com/Tom_Fowdy/status/1235102396595888128
So Tom is saying nothing would be any different except the lingo change?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on March 04, 2020, 03:31:07 PM
https://twitter.com/TwinklingTania/status/1235297192757338113
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 04, 2020, 08:13:19 PM
thanks, just reading stuff on a whim, happening upon stuff and exploring what the rest of this board talks about
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 04, 2020, 08:14:49 PM
I see why you some of you clown on self-described socialists/communists at times
redistributing the value added revenue skimming to the local proles is not remotely internationalist labour solidarity :thinking
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on March 04, 2020, 08:33:57 PM
I posted this great meme once that captioned some Cultural Revolution artwork with "Stand with the workers of the third world! Seize the Norwegian Sovereign Wealth Fund!" but I can't find it anymore :'(
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 05, 2020, 02:36:35 AM
I don't know what's going on at times but the book reads good.

I can recognize some well-placed sass :jawalrus
Quote
Bhagwati et al.’s emphasis on factor endowments opens the interest-ing  possibility  that  Bangladesh  may  be  overendowed  with  a  limitless  supply  of  people  desperate  for  work,  and  that  it  is  this  oversupply  that  explains  why  wages  are  so  low,  not  the  productivity  of  those  in  work.  This would imply that wages are depressed far below marginal produc-tivity,  and  gives  rise  to  a  notion  of  exploitation,  since  it  would  mean  that  Bangladeshi  workers  are  not  fully  compensated  for  their  product.  Bhagwati et al. are rescued from this dangerous notion by their impressive faith in Say’s law
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on March 05, 2020, 03:50:23 AM
watching a bunch of chapo kids turn to accelerationism as cope is something
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 05, 2020, 02:11:10 PM
Family around there tended to be rural farmers types and not urbanites. So no first-hand exposure to the sweatshop business.
Kind of nice to live in a bubble tbh, reality is bleak and eeking out my contradictory political positions without them collapsing is much more pleasant. Ignorance is bliss afterall.

Convergence theory was something I thought was plausible before, but digesting the mechanics of arms-length outsourcing and etc make it obvious it was never in the cards.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 05, 2020, 02:15:02 PM
Watching this new clip, and reading the comments really fits in with what I was reading about.
Really hits up on the braindrain of educated people whose education was paid for elsewhere to leave behind the surplus, the localized wage depression, and the pitting of proles of different races against one another in a frame conducive to exploitation with the assumption that the economic frame is immovable.  :ohhh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENkedhRsOCU

Quote
This is why the Bernie bros hate capitalism, and they're right to. But this isn't capitalism. It's cronyism

Quote
This is what happens when you support global capitalism.
Only nationalist economics will save our middle class

Quote
Capitalism isn't the problem... it is the laws in place that allow for "outsourcing"

 :foodcourt

Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on March 05, 2020, 03:09:56 PM
reading the past few posts like

(https://i.imgur.com/TMqFoT1.png)

brings tears to my eyes :uguu
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 05, 2020, 03:12:16 PM
I can't reconcile my views, I do not know what esoteric or obscure political alignment I am :stahp
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on March 05, 2020, 03:15:33 PM
welcome to the club
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on March 05, 2020, 03:22:30 PM
https://twitter.com/jourdayen/status/1235286788589195265

 :pimp
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: nachobro on March 05, 2020, 03:23:35 PM
it me but with weed instead
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 05, 2020, 03:27:53 PM
browsing through random terms
must read into Juche and Socialism in One Country some time :thinking
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on March 05, 2020, 03:28:21 PM
must read into Juche and Socialism in One Country some time :thinking

:juche
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on March 05, 2020, 03:36:25 PM
This isn't an rpg, you don't have to pick a label or anything. Just search for knowledge and find your own truth. :wow

I can tell you that this is actually the exact route I took during my own political evolution. Kara gave the fateful pregnant suggestions - first by dapping me for a Monthly Review article on Israel (https://monthlyreview.org/2007/03/01/israel-in-the-u-s-empire/) that I posted and then after we had a conversation later we were discussing some Jason Hickel piece op-ed about how global poverty has actually increased in raw terms and most of the reductions happened in China...

But once you're forced to confront the staggering disparities in the global economy you have to start undoing years of mental damage and indoctrination about free trade and economic development. And once you start questioning the basis of every major institution like the WTO, the IMF, or all of the think tanks that you've been outsourcing all of your thinking to for your adult life, that's when you hit that inflection point and elevate yourself beyond the eternal struggle between the left and right wings of capital. And you find your way to those communities which have been in plain sight this whole time but you couldn't see because you didn't have the right glasses on, communities which have painstakingly preserved and nurtured and expanded on schools of thought for literally hundreds of years (depending on whether you consider Rousseau or Henri de Saint-Simon to be the grandfather of the left).

Not that you'll do that or come to the same conclusions. My point is 1) nobody on Earth is internally consistent and 2) when you make a critical change in your worldview, the overall consistency will come over time as you try to reconcile and work out all the new contradictions as they come up. It's a long process and the only right way to go about it is to be honest with yourself about your hesitations or hangups, and do all the hard thinking yourself, not delegating to pre-established ideologies or your friends or some wikipedia article.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
It also helps if you're around people with different political views so that you're even aware of what your options are. Two years ago Kara made fun of me for saying I liked George Orwell and I was like "is this motherfucker serious rn" but now I'm 100% borktarded and spend every waking moment reading rosa luxemburg pamphlets saying kautsky's dick is small. you, too, can have this happiness.
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 05, 2020, 03:46:36 PM
I used to rag on Cuba and socialism for failing but didn't know much about Cuban history or CIA fuckery :stahp

Thanks though, I'll float through some literature and follow the current. TheBore, seems to double as a political realization front more and more and less the weird splinter forum.
Different, political views, lmao I'm in Alberta  :lol
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 05, 2020, 03:46:52 PM
browsing through random terms
must read into Juche and Socialism in One Country some time :thinking

http://www.thebore.com/forum/index.php?topic=24400.msg2507843#msg2507843

 :lol
:bow Kara
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on March 05, 2020, 03:52:25 PM
I want to emphasize that you really do have to undo indoctrination and going to college does not help. In college I was more conservative than at any other point in my life. You make the mistake of "getting involved" or being interested in politics and you're suddenly reading papers from Brookings Institute, you're taking micro-econ classes where they tell you that unions lower economic productivity, the reason immigration is good is because it brings in cheap labor, etc. Most people don't do any real thinking for themselves, they just outsource it to whoever they think is the smartest guy in the room, but all these guys have been filtered through decades of ideological conformity, hegemony, and outright academic purges. It's what Noam Chomsky refers to as "buying the experts" in Manufacturing Consent.

The economic orthodoxy is especially destitute. Wages and interest aren't determined by marginal returns to factors of production, they're socially and historically determined by struggles between labor and capital. The most prominent mainstream economist on the left is Paul Krugman and he's one of the most important people responsible for the ideological basis of the same trade liberalization which keeps Vietnamese workers in factories ten to twelve hours a day for $200 a month. The whole discipline is irrelevant especially in the post crash world.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on March 05, 2020, 04:01:15 PM
must read into Juche and Socialism in One Country some time :thinking
ok don't do this
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 05, 2020, 04:02:34 PM
I was wondering why I had union-skepticism despite not having any real exposure to unions at all.
Yeah, regarding immigration and wages thing, that is definitely a big thing. I've been thinking more so that it really isn't the immigrants to blame for wage depression, they are just cogs like the rest. Other people pin the blame on them, which is likely the preferred response by bougie. Better to blame the immigrants for immigrating than to stop, take a step back and wonder what really is to blame. :thinking

The anti-immigration stance is people with capitalist-critique unaware of how to address and grapple with it and so fall along the most convenient path, ala Carlson clip.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 05, 2020, 04:05:33 PM
Quote
This isn't an rpg, you don't have to pick a label or anything. Just search for knowledge and find your own truth.

Quote
ok don't do this

 8)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on March 05, 2020, 04:12:13 PM
The tucker position against immigration is "low wages in other countries are sad, but that's not my problem" which could be a morally acceptable stance except whenever they try to raise their own wages, the international organizations call it a cartel, Hillary Clinton murders your union leaders (https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/more-than-30-trade-unionists-have-been-killed-in-honduras-since-2009/), and if you had a political movement behind you your whole government is branded a dictatorship and a coup is organized against your president (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Venezuelan_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat_attempt).
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 05, 2020, 04:18:26 PM
Yup, it excludes the conditions, a lot of why and background. The book touches upon the various bits of the oligopsony setup that permanently cripple any chance for improvement and the outsourcing style that hands-free forces conditions downwards.
None of this is a concern in the States because the plight of foreigners is irrelevant to what they are pushing.

Fox and co. are trying to shift the blame off naked capitalism to the foreign threat under a veneer of vaguely anti-cap talking points that become more and more transparent the more I read this book.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on March 05, 2020, 04:56:06 PM
https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1235582102550216704
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on March 05, 2020, 04:56:55 PM
My favorite Marxist (https://www.marxists.org/archive/mandel/1986/09/planning.html) was a huge fourth international guy... and in fact I think the Trotskyist and (some...) Eurocommunist authors did an important job of preserving and advocating for socialism without having to excuse everything the Soviet Union ever did. The pitfall is when you're so pure that you denigrate any revolution that ever happened and also let yourself be a tool for counter-revolutionary forces. Some authors are better at this than others.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Do0FxpKUUAA7oCQ?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on March 05, 2020, 05:27:18 PM
I mentioned this but I'm getting into Ralph Miliband because he's one of the few marxists who had interesting insights into post-war capitalist democracies and strategies within them, and man, he just absolutely lays into the political parties, the union leadership, social democracy, etc. That and his commentary about "revolutionary reformism" is timeless... if you don't prepare to defend yourself, it doesn't matter how legitimate your political movement is, once you reach a critical point, you and everyone else will be fucking murdered.

Also I always found the concept of worker councils quaint and I like someone telling me that we can keep many of the organs of the state :yeshrug
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 05, 2020, 06:28:21 PM
History matters. The news matters. Ideology matters.

As far as what to read or what to do*, that completely depends on what you figure out is important and why.

*don't become a Trotskyist

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=trotskyist

 :heh

https://urbandictionary.store/products/mug?defid=12648439&utm_campaign=onpage&utm_source=define&utm_medium=web

 :neogaf

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Didn't know UB got in on $$$ merchandizing
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: toku on March 05, 2020, 06:38:16 PM
I can't reconcile my views, I do not know what esoteric or obscure political alignment I am :stahp

Just say you're an anarchist then don't engage in any discussion about it
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Joe Molotov on March 05, 2020, 07:59:17 PM
Leon Trotsky, the original Trotskyist.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 05, 2020, 11:38:35 PM
maybe I should :thinking

(https://preview.redd.it/vh8ejkgi16g21.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=1ed8fa3d2b3a1a51c92e9d596727f4a0b76efea1)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 06, 2020, 02:21:24 AM
:ussrcry

Quote
The  proletarians  of  the  semi-colonial  countries  are  its  first  victims,  but  the  broad  masses  of  working  people  in  the  imperialist  countries  also  face destitution. The new, youthful, and female proletarians of low-wage countries  dug  capitalism  out  of  the  hole  in  which  it  found  itself  in  the  1970s. now, together with workers in the imperialist countries, it is their mission to dig another hole—to excavate the grave in which to bury capitalism and thereby secure the future of human civilization.

Mostly done reading it now, glazed over the heavier parts naturally but I think I've taken away stuff to think about. Thanks guys.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on March 06, 2020, 02:37:26 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/69Ugv4d.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 07, 2020, 02:24:20 AM
Quote
in 1991 the GnP was turned into the GdP—a quiet change that had very  large  implications.  under  the  old  measure,  the  gross  national  product, the earnings of a multinational firm were attributed to the country  where  the  firm  was  owned—and  where  the  profits  would  eventually  return.  under  the  gross  domestic  product,  however,  the  profits  are  attributed  to  the  country  where  the  factory  or  mine  is  located, even though they won’t stay there. This accounting shift has turned  many  struggling  nations  into  statistical  boomtowns,  while  aiding the push for a global economy.
Quote
in  this  case,  an  increase  in  the  capital  value  of  a  firm,  as  measured  by  its  share price, is arbitrarily ascribed to an increase in the firm’s intangible assets; this is transformed into a purely imaginary addition to this firm’s value-added,  yet  depreciation  of  this  firm’s  tangible  assets  remains,  as  before,  excluded  from  the  calculation  of  its  gross  value  added.  each  of  these highly dubious procedures raises many complex issues that require a much more detailed examination than is possible here. it is sufficient to note, for present purposes, that if it wasn’t for these changes, the long-term and accelerating decline in GdP growth in imperialist economies discussed in the next chapter, would look even more dramatic.

Quote
But if GdP is a true measure of a nation’s product then the residents of Bermuda, a “British overseas ter-ritory,”  which  in  2006  boasted  the  world’s  highest  per  capita  GdP,  are  among the most productive members of humanity.27 This tax haven leapt above luxemburg to take the top spot after becoming a favorite destina-tion for hedge funds left homeless by the destruction of the world Trade Center in 2001, and was given a further boost by the devastation of new orleans by hurricane Katrina in 2005. The Financial Times reported that “Bermuda’s reinsurance business has exploded in scale. The rapid growth started  after  the  September  11  attacks  in  2001  and  gathered  pace  fol-lowing  .  .  .  hurricane  Katrina.  These  disasters  .  .  .  pushed  up  the  cost  of insurance premiums . . . prompt[ing] hedge funds and private equity groups to dash into the sector, hoping to reap fat profits if premiums stay high. Bermuda became their favoured location.”28

Quote
its  per  capita  GdP  in  2006  stood at PPP$5,549, 8 percent of Bermuda’s, or just 3 percent at market exchange rates. according to raphael Kaplinsky, workers in its footwear factories make shoes out of imported components, thereby adding 30¢ to the value of each pair of shoes—just 2 percent of the final selling price—and to the dr’s GdP, to be shared between the state, the capitalist owners of the shoe factory, and the workers.31“yet, in international trade statis-tics, the unit value of shoe exports was not the added value of 30¢ but the gross value of the final product, which was more like $15,”32while trade in value-added (TiVa) statistics (were they available) would count $0.30 toward dr’s exports—and if the shoe factory is a foreign-owned subsid-iary, part of this $0.30 would be repatriated to the parent company.
I did not know of this and the GDP shenanigans  :leon
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 07, 2020, 09:36:33 PM
finished reading, good read, last bits a bit head spinning
why are commies so bleak, buncha doomers

while researching bits, articles that I would've not raised an eyebrow at now do so

https://reason.com/2018/07/27/sorry-if-youre-offended-but-socialism-le/

Quote
But none of them admit that capitalism has been the most effective way to eliminate poverty in history. Today, in former socialist states like India, there have been big reductions in poverty thanks to increased capitalism. In China, where communism sadly still deprives more than a billion people of their basic rights, hundreds of millions benefit from a system that is slowly shedding socialism. Since the fall of the Soviet Union, the extreme poverty rate in the world has been cut in half. And it didn't happen because Southeast Asians were raising the minimum wage.

https://mises.org/wire/4-reasons-why-socialism-becoming-more-popular

Quote
The more reason we give anyone to think that capitalism means crony capitalism, the more they’ll clamor for socialism.

https://www.investors.com/politics/commentary/socialism-elections-liberty-freedom/

Quote
investors.com

 :putin
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 08, 2020, 04:52:04 AM
Funnily enough, I thought the USSR was cool back in high school and thought communism was neat. Then I grew out of it afterwards and began to extol capitalism/free-market/normal stuff as being free/moral. And now I'm going :thinking about the Soviets all over again.
Time is a flat circle and all...
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on March 08, 2020, 12:15:45 PM
https://twitter.com/mtsw/status/1236683566316228608

----

https://twitter.com/athenogenes/status/1236347624212570114
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 08, 2020, 08:19:14 PM
H Section huh  :shaq
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 08, 2020, 09:10:40 PM
I got other stuff to do but am now reading Parenti's Blackshirts and Reds instead since that meme from above.

God, this book absolutely bangs and I'm only like 20 pages in :noah
I'm learning so much so fast, socdems screwing over the left in the end to support fascists, fascists being capitalist dogs, red scare goes back 100 years (fuck you russiangaters)
Why can't the other dorky droners be this riveting, this author rules.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on March 09, 2020, 04:00:25 AM
you're having way too much fun for this thread, read this next it'll bring you back down:
Quote
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61b3WrP8kEL.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 09, 2020, 03:31:34 PM
Now a pragmatic look at what shaped the USSR, critique of the cowardly ideal socialism looks like blah-blah, a sobering look at human nature (one of the biggest sticking points I've always thought about when it came to communism)

This book is literally everything I wanted, it's art. It's a marvelous marxist masterpiece.  :ussrcry :lawd
Thank you Esch.  :bow2
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 09, 2020, 06:44:27 PM
Finished reading, beautiful. Shit makes the soul tingle for class war. Will read more of him later.
I've actually got an idea about what fascism really is after being confused about it due to internet discourse.
10/10 would actually recommend this book to other people. 

tfw you were born after the USSR ended :fbm
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on March 09, 2020, 06:56:21 PM
read To Kill A Nation next if you want the most contrarian take ever made

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Bore's Law :lawd
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on March 09, 2020, 08:20:40 PM
Working my way through Imperialism in the 21st Century and I'm enjoying it but I'm struggling with how Smith differentiates productive and nonproductive labor.

Quote
It may be asked, are not these non-productive activities providing “common goods” necessary for the reproduction of society? Shaikh and Tonak provide a cogent response: “To say that these labors indirectly result in the creation of this wealth is only another way of saying that they are necessary. Consumption also indirectly results in production, as production indirectly results in consumption. But this hardly obviates the need for distinguishing between the two.”77 To see the veracity of this argument, consider an economy made up of laborers and security guards.78 The laborers produce all of the goods that both they and the security guards need to live on; the security guards provide a “common good,” security. it is plain that the higher the ratio of security guards to laborers, all other things being equal, the lower the total product, and it is therefore logical to regard this economic activity as unproductive labor, a form of social consumption.

But if you reduce the number of security guards, and more of the goods the laborers produce are stolen, or eaten by wild animals during the night, then doesn't that lower total product? Are theft and waste counted as consumption? And say you have an overseer, who whips the laborers from time to time to make them go faster. If you converted him into a laborer, that could conceivably lead to lower total product; does that make whipping the laborers a productive activity?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 09, 2020, 08:51:19 PM
Yeah, among the things I got tripped up over at times were things like his deliberation on productive work. When I was reading his bit on explaining how transporting goods falls under the purview of productive it felt odd as it seemed entirely intuitive to consider transport productive and more so he was convincing himself.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: bluemax on March 09, 2020, 10:38:55 PM
https://twitter.com/lachancenaomi/status/1237163019169345538
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on March 10, 2020, 01:44:29 AM
I've actually got an idea about what fascism really is after being confused about it due to internet discourse.
Go straight to the source breh: http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/Germany/mussolini.htm

No, like seriously, it's a short read and it always amazes me how often no one ever reads it or sources it when talking about fascism. Not to harp on her since she's on our alt-right hate side now but it's just one of the more prominent examples, when Contrapoints did her big fascism video that made her famous it was clear that she had never read anything academic on fascism, and even worse in my opinion had never actually read the original sources of fascist ideology.

Fascism is a very interesting ideology because it was constructed on the fly bringing together a whole bunch of existing currents and it was suppose to make heavily rational sense. To continue harping on others doing things wrong (:rage), the inclusion of or use of Nazism in place of fascism has always sowed confusion because the Nazis mostly went "hey, yeah, we'll do this because everyone is, but what about those Jews huh? and German superiority? and where's the party about dominating the globe?" to where the fascist adherents of the time felt this uncultured schlub from Austria was smearing his feces all over their intellectual movement. Like Trump and the beauty and purity that was the global conservative movement.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 10, 2020, 01:57:38 AM
when repubs and dems call each other the actual fascists, you can't help but lose all track of what words mean
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 10, 2020, 02:09:04 AM
Fascism is a very interesting ideology

okay benji :smug

shit, my bad, I meant to edit that in not make a new post

:stahp
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on March 10, 2020, 02:22:57 AM
I mean in terms of how it came about, it was almost literally Mussolini going "I need a new ideology, someone help me make one!" He wasn't say, reinterpreting socialism to actually mean his conclusions or whatever. Almost every other ideology is backwards labeled, generally after the person is dead, not constructed on the fly with all the trappings of actually being a new ideology and with the lead persons trying to fit every form of philosophy or thought into it as they construct it. Gadhaffi's whole thing was similar.

And if you dare think this sounds like Objectivism well...
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 10, 2020, 02:30:43 AM
Yeah, reading it is kind of funny. What it says on the tin not what you get at all.

Quote
Fascism is likewise opposed to trade unionism as a class weapon. But when brought within the orbit of the State, Fascism recognizes the real needs which gave rise to socialism and trade unionism, giving them due weight in the guild or corporative system in which divergent interests are coordinated and harmonized in the unity of the State (16).

:lol

Half of this reads like a self-help/motivational post especially by those shrewd grifter gurus, I could probably get random liberal-leaning people to repost this stuff because of the marketing-style word salad.
Like I could easily get some lefty on my feed to reshare this, especially one of the people getting into Stoicism which seems to be a recent hotness.

Quote
Fascism wants man to be active and to engage in action with all his energies; it wants him to be manfully aware of the difficulties besetting him and ready to face them. It conceives of life as a struggle in which it behooves a man to win for himself a really worthy place, first of all by fitting himself (physically, morally, intellectually) to become the implement required for winning it. As for the individual, so for the nation, and so for mankind (4). Hence the high value of culture in all its forms (artistic, religious, scientific) (5) and the outstanding importance of education. Hence also the essential value of work, by which man subjugates nature and creates the human world (economic, political, ethical, and intellectual).
Well, sans the one word fascism of course
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 10, 2020, 02:33:55 AM
The remaining point of course being how the state needs to fuck your ass and how you'll benefit from it. If you live.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on March 10, 2020, 02:43:50 AM
The spiritual stuff about how only Fascism can give your soul meaning is my favorite stuff, I always forget the name of the longer book Mussolini had ghostwritten about that, oh, and also this from the paragraph before your quote:
Quote
the Fascist conception of life stresses the importance of the State and accepts the individual only in so far as his interests coincide with those of the State, which stands for the conscience and the universal, will of man as a historic entity (11). It is opposed to classical liberalism which arose as a reaction to absolutism and exhausted its historical function when the State became the expression of the conscience and will of the people. Liberalism denied the State in the name of the individual; Fascism reasserts the rights of the State as expressing the real essence of the individual (12). And if liberty is to he the attribute of living men and not of abstract dummies invented by individualistic liberalism, then Fascism stands for liberty, and for the only liberty worth having, the liberty of the State and of the individual within the State (13). The Fascist conception of the State is all embracing; outside of it no human or spiritual values can exist, much less have value. Thus understood, Fascism, is totalitarian, and the Fascist  State  - a synthesis and a unit inclusive of all values - interprets, develops, and potentates the whole life of a people (14).

No individuals or groups (political parties, cultural associations, economic unions, social classes) outside the State (15).
:klob
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 10, 2020, 02:48:56 AM
Quote
Fascism stands for liberty, and for the only liberty worth having, the liberty of the State
If only we had an emote for that one, one of the crying+flag ones. 
:japancry
Japan will have to do.

And obviously, touting bravery and all sorts of things supposedly connected to war such as nobility, duty, fighting spirit coming from an Italian. :dead
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on March 10, 2020, 03:19:47 AM
in my head canon ‘fascism’ is only used to describe mussolini’s italy and other far right movements of the 20s 30s and 40s to the extent theyre similar. like i’d even prefer exclusively using ‘nazism’ to describe germany instead of calling it ‘fascism’. it’s nice to have a catch-all term for the part of the far right that isn’t throne and altar counter revolution, but its ultimately definitely a family resemblance kind of a thing, not a discrete set of first principles. im also not terribly convinced whatever intellectual content is there isn’t an after thought*

*as in, the global sense of ‘fascism’, not when it’s narrowly used in the italian context
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on March 10, 2020, 04:57:16 AM
I wrote a paper as an undergrad about why German national socialism isn’t congruent with fascism, so I consider myself an expert on that topic.


Especially since I fudged my citations from wikipedia.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on March 10, 2020, 10:44:42 AM
I think the broader view of fascism as a human inclination which persists forever is still useful... Umberto Eco's famous essay is quite good

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/umberto-eco-ur-fascism

So I'm not annoyed so much when someone says "that's fascist".
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 10, 2020, 02:54:17 PM
I think the broader view of fascism as a human inclination which persists forever is still useful... Umberto Eco's famous essay is quite good

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/umberto-eco-ur-fascism

So I'm not annoyed so much when someone says "that's fascist".

Pretty good read.
I feel "capitalism in decay" and observing the trajectory of fascist governments in terms of state and big money collusion gives you a strong feel for what role it plays.

The afterthought though, as Jake put it, I don't feel you can entirely discredit it. It plays a vital role of drawing in the disaffected by capitalism masses and promises them (falsely) a better life.
It contributes alongside intentional media disinformation to a romantization of sorts of fascism. That somehow it will give the hopeless a purpose, the eternal campaign against communism instills a distinctive knee-jerk to avoid going down a Marxian path. Which leaves a fascist path instead for the lost.

This is of course entirely acceptable by certain people in power.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on March 10, 2020, 03:39:56 PM
yeah i mean, we can definitely give a rational reconstruction of it; i think if anything is fundamentally characteristic of it its a rejection of liberal pluralism. all i mean to say is that, when we try to dig underneath those characteristics, at bottom, they rest on kneejerk revulsion, not argument. like, theres no rawls of fascism. paxton describes it as an appeal to the passions at the expense of reason, and i think thats borne out when we look at who could possibly qualify as the rawls of fascism: schmitt and gentile are pretty clear that their whole shtick is legitimizing -under certain conditions, some more, some less extensive- the suspension of reciprocal respect for persons in order to assert raw, naked will to power. that is intellectually interesting but its not really intellectually defensible. its more like an admission that your interlocutor doesnt give a shit about engaging you in good faith.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on March 10, 2020, 03:46:12 PM
https://twitter.com/creature_maria/status/1237161051529121793

Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on March 10, 2020, 03:52:27 PM
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/umberto-eco-ur-fascism
huh, didn’t realize how much my last couple posts...echo Eco :dice

i’ve seen plenty of chapo types shit on this piece but it’s way better than they’d lead you to believe
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on March 10, 2020, 03:53:59 PM
I've never heard anyone shit on that piece (which I got from sphagnum, pbuh), what's the gist of the criticism?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on March 10, 2020, 04:17:37 PM
just realized that benji getting pedantic about what the word fascism refers to comes from the same place as him getting mad about the modern use of the word "corporatism" :heh
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on March 10, 2020, 04:43:19 PM
I've never heard anyone shit on that piece (which I got from sphagnum, pbuh), what's the gist of the criticism?
ah, fuck i cant find the thread. iirc it was too idealist for them? as i google around for it im turning up more posts on the sub that are warm to it than posts that arent, so i guess i just stumbled on the three people who didnt like it.

re: esch; theres definitely a certain kind of irrationalism at work in fascist discourse, but id hesitate to call it irrationalism tout court. the worst part of the eco essay is where he ascribes to it a rejection of modernism. fascists (and tradcaths, and paleocons, and anprims) can say theyre turning back the clock, but theyre still practicing mass party politics, a paradigmatic feature of modernity. and i just dont think history works in that way, whatever move an historical actor makes is gonna be necessarily stamped by the time in which theyre acting. even negative moves end up affirming things left implicit.

coincidentally, i just finished up william doyle’s account of the french revolution where he makes the obvious claim that there isn’t any interpretation of the revolution that doesnt cleanly track some political programme or other, not only because everything under the sun has already been written about 1789, and the terror, and the 18th brumaire, but more centrally because the french revolution is the originary event of modern politics. doyle himself calls it a ‘tragedy’ while admiring the constitution of 1791 (and shirking at the constitution of 1793), in no small part because he’s exercising the perennial liberal revulsion towards violence.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on March 10, 2020, 05:36:50 PM
https://twitter.com/creature_maria/status/1237161051529121793

Actual garbage

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Can't even hold a candle to the original classic. :win

https://twitter.com/neekolul/status/1234601269127458817
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on March 10, 2020, 05:50:37 PM
https://twitter.com/hereliesthighs/status/1237468448084688898
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on March 10, 2020, 06:11:26 PM
https://twitter.com/PopeProcyon/status/1237476463282192385

(https://i.imgur.com/fc8R9tK.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 10, 2020, 07:31:24 PM
(https://preview.redd.it/ha7io2s03vl41.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=a75009dd0bca2b5a3d2b3ec0ece43c57945f6675)



(https://preview.redd.it/w6kunyv2mil41.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=1415f7a343fab2ee3880d70f7439357b6b60c9dd)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 10, 2020, 08:35:47 PM
not surprised at hitting the woman, alt-righters really dislike women alongside jews, and non-whites

but yeah, I'm familiar with the alt-right sphere
their delusions about hitler and fascism somehow being free from greed and for the good of the people :neogaf
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Joe Molotov on March 10, 2020, 08:37:56 PM
not surprised at hitting the woman, alt-righters really dislike women alongside jews, and non-whites

https://twitter.com/iginister/status/1237097139853017089
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 10, 2020, 09:34:32 PM
for you commies and weebs

https://twitter.com/yuricommunism
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on March 10, 2020, 09:56:13 PM
https://twitter.com/hopefulmoron/status/1237550107790209025

https://twitter.com/AliceAvizandum/status/1237551688837259264

https://twitter.com/AliceAvizandum/status/1237552798230708224

https://twitter.com/AliceAvizandum/status/1237553610843508736
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on March 11, 2020, 12:13:15 AM
https://twitter.com/CalebJHull/status/1237584835394203649

They never heard about China?  :doge
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on March 11, 2020, 12:15:18 AM
I think most people aren't familiar with the Cultural Revolution :idont
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on March 11, 2020, 12:27:59 AM
I think most people aren't familiar with the Cultural Revolution :idont

You learn about the Cultural Revolution as part of World History. Admittedly it's at the end of the year after you get though World War II, (you might get to the end of the 20th century if your teacher is good at pacing). So I suppose there's a decent chance of not covering the Cultural Revolution. My point is that these guys can't even make the facil argument that China isn't a 'failed state' today because of neoliberal market reforms.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on March 11, 2020, 12:44:33 AM
You learned about the cultural revolution in a world history course? Why? :heh
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on March 11, 2020, 12:49:55 AM
You learned about the cultural revolution in a world history course? Why? :heh

Didn't you go to a CA high school? It's part of the state standards.

Quote
The Cold War grew in intensity as the Soviet Union developed atomic weapons
in an effort to catch up militarily to the U.S. An arms race continued for decades,
as the superpowers competed over advancements in nuclear weapons technology.
After a long civil war, communists, led by Mao Zedong, came to power in China,
expanding the geographic scope of the Cold War. The presence of communist
China complicated the earlier bipolar Cold War world, as tensions developed
between the two communist powers. The Great Leap Forward (1958–1961) and the
Cultural Revolution (1966–1976) caused massive turmoil in China. Students should
learn about the unrest and disorder in China during these years; elites were made
to work on farms; revolutionary justice was arbitrarily applied; and the Red Guard
even turned on members of Mao’s own party.
The question How was the Cold War waged all over the world? can continue
to frame students’ understanding of the Chinese experience. Moreover, if students
learn about the ascent of communism in China in the middle of the twentieth
century, the groundwork will be laid for their understanding of its later status
when its markets opened, but its political system did not.

https://www.cde.ca.gov/ci/hs/cf/documents/hssfwchapter15.pdf

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Students don't really go into this unless you're in an AP class. 
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on March 11, 2020, 12:53:11 AM
I was in IB, we played fast and loose with state standards :doge

I think I also might have satisfied that requirement with Geography instead? I can't remember.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on March 11, 2020, 12:55:45 AM
Quote
Young people are supporting the failed ideology at an astronomical rate and it's because of our education system.
in a way, hes not wrong :idont
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 11, 2020, 01:12:42 AM
on the subject of china, so what the hell kind of country/government are they really?
I'm a bit confused where on the spectrum they lie, communists stand with them but I thought they looked state capitalist or something

this dude say yes AF

https://foreignpolicy.com/2011/01/03/5-myths-about-the-chinese-communist-party/
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on March 11, 2020, 01:13:23 AM
wow that high school curriculum is like, deliberately designed to choke out critical reassessments of modern history. are the essays that just regurgitate boring liberal agitprop the ones that get 5s?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on March 11, 2020, 01:20:12 AM
... is it? We read Howard Zinn in US history :idont
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on March 11, 2020, 01:36:21 AM
wow that high school curriculum is like, deliberately designed to choke out critical reassessments of modern history. are the essays that just regurgitate boring liberal agitprop the ones that get 5s?

p sure that the biggest correlation with getting a 5 on an ap exam is just writing lots of words
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on March 11, 2020, 09:22:00 AM
https://twitter.com/CalebJHull/status/1237584835394203649

They never heard about China?  :doge

Caleb Hull: Socialism is bad and always fails! Young people need to learn how bad it is! Also, all these countries they keep bringing up aren't even socialist!

Me: Okay, then let's do what those countries do then.

Caleb Hull: No, that's socialism!
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on March 11, 2020, 03:51:19 PM
defending trotskyism...
I support the jdpon :hmph
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on March 11, 2020, 08:56:21 PM
But if you reduce the number of security guards, and more of the goods the laborers produce are stolen, or eaten by wild animals during the night, then doesn't that lower total product? Are theft and waste counted as consumption? And say you have an overseer, who whips the laborers from time to time to make them go faster. If you converted him into a laborer, that could conceivably lead to lower total product; does that make whipping the laborers a productive activity?
Theft is an illegal transfer - it doesn't lower the total product because the product has already been produced. Crop damage is depreciation. If adding a night patrol increases yield then that's productive work and that added labor becomes part of the production technique. In the example given I think by security guards we mean general shared security, like a police force.

In the case of the slave driver, and this is a good example, the intensification of labor is what produces more product. Marx was very keen to emphasize this point that businesses are driven to intensify work more and more in order to produce more profit. Since the wage remains constant the value rate of exploitation is clearly increasing. There is no functional difference between a slave driver and the computerized timekeeping that is ubiquitous in the service industry now. That does not mean the slave driver is productive.

I know you're trying to tease apart this criteria and you're right to do so. The distinction between productive and unproductive work is one of the most attacked linkages in Marxist analysis. I think it's important to consider a concept in the context of the argument it's a part of. What they're setting up here is a framework to analyze the way that the labor aristocracy is substantially dependent on expropriation of value from third world labor well above the rate at which first world workers are exploited. Think about how high the trade deficit is in developed countries - the US is completely dependent on a net positive capital flow in order to finance its importation of cheap products. If wages were equalized across nations the entire first world standard of living would absolutely fall apart, even though most people in the US do work. And it's precisely because of this distinction. It's like when the one keystone business in a Midwestern town leaves and the whole economy falls apart. In some sense the distinction is arbitrary but it's impossible to quantify or analyze global imperialism without first making such a delineation.

Yeah, among the things I got tripped up over at times were things like his deliberation on productive work. When I was reading his bit on explaining how transporting goods falls under the purview of productive it felt odd as it seemed entirely intuitive to consider transport productive and more so he was convincing himself.
That section in the chapter proceeds a part where he's saying that productive vs unproductive is different from industry vs services. It's not meant to convince the author, it's meant to clarify a common misconception.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: toku on March 11, 2020, 09:31:49 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/crFdtdE.png)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 11, 2020, 09:35:52 PM
nihilist accelerationism :noah
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on March 14, 2020, 01:46:55 AM
https://twitter.com/Praveen_K_Kumar/status/1238698121690927104

 :boring :tocry
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on March 14, 2020, 02:02:29 PM
https://twitter.com/_SemaHernandez_/status/1238881596708618247

 :bernie
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on March 14, 2020, 04:36:00 PM
https://twitter.com/NOlympicsLA/status/1238917865115242497

#reclaimLA
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 16, 2020, 04:40:58 PM
I ordered Mao's Red Book for some lite apocalypse reading
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on March 16, 2020, 04:44:09 PM
This thread is now a struggle between me and Esch over whether you'll choose cringe Mao LARPing or useless dork economism
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 16, 2020, 04:47:40 PM
considering I'm feeling nostalgia over my weird USSR phase in secondary school years, cringe is on the menu  8)
don't expect anything remotely plausible or sensical

spoiler (click to show/hide)
gonna grip some Stalin books for sure :noah  :ussrcry
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on March 16, 2020, 04:53:33 PM
Classical Marxism is unblemished, no complaints if OR reads Lenin's Imperialism like Kara made me do
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on March 16, 2020, 04:54:32 PM
Read Lenin, not Stalin. Why would you want to read Stalin? Even Stalinists have never read Stalin.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on March 16, 2020, 04:55:54 PM
You're the guy who said that out of "the big 5", Stalin was "the best writer" :hmm
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 16, 2020, 04:58:04 PM
I also bought the Parenti book I read, I intend to try and get other people to read it. Plant a seed in some minds.
Now that's praxis baby  8)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on March 16, 2020, 05:03:44 PM
It's like with a President, most everything a President says when they're President, SOTU, speeches, etc. is mostly garbage because they aren't truly writing it and the audience is quite different. It's like with Trump's Twitter or his campaign rallies versus his big speeches as PRESIDENT. Stalin lost his romantic side and wrote bureaucratic justifications for bureaucracy. You can read that kind of crap in any MPA program.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on March 16, 2020, 07:06:20 PM
I also bought the Parenti book I read, I intend to try and get other people to read it. Plant a seed in some minds.
Now that's praxis baby  8)

Have you read Adorno? It‘s some relatively light reading, but not as populist and easily debunked as Parenti.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 16, 2020, 08:15:07 PM
Thanks, I'll be sure to keep that in mind.
Although I don't plan to read tons, I've got unproductive pasttimes to numb the pandemic panic with.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on March 17, 2020, 02:08:19 AM
did you guys start the german idealism reading group thing btw?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on March 17, 2020, 07:35:27 PM
did you guys start the german idealism reading group thing btw?

Yes, it’s the reading part that is kinda stopping me right now,  :doge
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 17, 2020, 10:11:36 PM
 :ussrcry

https://twitter.com/BriteRedOctober/status/1239657436140777473

https://twitter.com/faizashaheen/status/1239545623814254592
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 18, 2020, 09:34:33 PM
https://policytensor.com/2020/03/13/notes-on-the-myth-of-working-class-racism-2/
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Rufus on March 18, 2020, 09:50:20 PM
https://twitter.com/faizashaheen/status/1239545623814254592
The foundations of society are repressed so that they stay in place.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also, there are a lot more of them.
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on March 18, 2020, 10:08:27 PM
Quote
As liberty can never subsist without equality, nor equality be long preserved without an agrarian law, or something like it; so when men's riches are become immeasurably or surprizingly great, a people, who regard their own security, ought to make a strict enquiry how they come by them, and oblige them to take down their own size, for fear of terrifying the community, or mastering it. In every country, and under every government, particular men may be too rich.
...
But, will some say, is it a crime to be rich? Yes, certainly, at the publick expense, or to the danger of the publick. A man may be too rich for a subject; even the revenues of kings may be too large. It is one of the effects of arbitrary power, that the prince has too much, and the people too little; and such inequality may be the cause too of arbitrary power. It is as astonishing as it is melancholy, to travel through a whole country, as one may through many in Europe, grasping under endless imposts, groaning under dragoons and poverty, and all to make a wanton and luxurious court, filled for the most with the worst and vilest of all men. Good God! What hard-heartedness and barbarity, to starve perhaps half a province, to make a gay garden! And yet sometimes even this gross wickedness is called publick spirit, because forsooth a few workmen and labourers are maintained out of the bread and the blood of half a million.
(https://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/jbhmmm.png)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Joe Molotov on March 19, 2020, 01:56:04 AM
Locking this thread as politics are no longer laissez or faire.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on March 19, 2020, 11:23:24 AM
https://twitter.com/RightWingWatch/status/1240628868966502400
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on March 19, 2020, 12:39:47 PM
The Star Citizen of TV evangelists.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: toku on March 19, 2020, 01:16:41 PM
https://www.rt.com/op-ed/483528-coronavirus-world-capitalism-barbarism/
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on March 19, 2020, 07:39:20 PM
https://twitter.com/TheSocietyDude/status/1240732358506164225
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on March 20, 2020, 01:54:08 AM
https://twitter.com/DavidAgStone/status/1240878744203476992
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: toku on March 21, 2020, 12:28:49 PM
daddy joe being radicalized, you love to see it:

https://twitter.com/spaceprole/status/1241059322177695746
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 21, 2020, 04:16:51 PM
(https://i.redd.it/khaoqgqyjzn41.png)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on March 21, 2020, 07:16:53 PM
Massive Mike Davis interview about coronavirus, lots of good global analysis and historical info:

https://www.thedigradio.com/podcast/mike-davis-on-coronavirus-politics/ (https://www.thedigradio.com/podcast/mike-davis-on-coronavirus-politics/)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on March 21, 2020, 07:33:39 PM
anyone know what book he mentions as the ‘best book on the history of the spd’ or whatever? listened to it earlier, forgot the title and dont feel like combing through 2 hours of podcast
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 23, 2020, 12:53:26 AM
(https://preview.redd.it/1buh4e4y29o41.png?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=da38ba75d54c081f1faf406a60ca15b6a699ea2f)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 23, 2020, 01:32:51 AM
Cheer up, I bring tidings from Lenin.
Social distance, recover, and take care of yourselves.

(https://i.redd.it/ezt9vjtbr3n41.png)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 23, 2020, 01:43:57 AM
Okay sorry, one more for the time being cuz I finally found out why people consider troyskyism a meme

(https://preview.redd.it/er5e56iw9xn41.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=95c7de131958d8ae622acb5353c4e49400d9501a)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on March 23, 2020, 03:05:57 PM
Quote from: Fall 2019 student evaluation of PSC 1003 Foundations of American Government
far left professor does not cover Judeo-Christian foundations of America at all, instead spends weeks claiming that many of the Founding Founders were radical liberals, has wasted class time to childishly mock President Washington
:fbm

it's only like a week, not "weeks"
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on March 23, 2020, 03:07:26 PM
someone called you far left and childish :dead
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on March 23, 2020, 03:21:42 PM
at a prior school this one professor got an evaluation that graded him a 1.0 and simply said "spreads Marxist propaganda"

dude was basically like a John McCain circa 2000/Colin Powell type Republican

and the class was about the election process

he called it the most thought-provoking evaluation from a student he had ever received
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 23, 2020, 05:15:03 PM
dox

Well doxmachine, did you let a bit too much slip or is it falsified numbers?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 23, 2020, 09:19:40 PM
the goods
I shall count on these for hopeful fortitude

spoiler (click to show/hide)
(https://i.imgur.com/iBos7vs.png)
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on March 24, 2020, 12:53:19 AM
https://twitter.com/RentStrike2020/status/1242310331201810432
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on March 24, 2020, 06:24:35 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/yEGVZKf.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on March 24, 2020, 11:31:03 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ET1_Iv1XYAEzagK?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on March 25, 2020, 12:03:22 AM
https://twitter.com/latimes/status/1242636826864574464

Subway developing a class consciousness?  :doge
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on March 25, 2020, 12:32:24 AM
It's a conflict between different factions of capital, not a proletarian consciousness arising from the big bourgeoisie
Britney Spears?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on March 25, 2020, 03:25:40 AM
It's a conflict between different factions of capital, not a proletarian consciousness arising from the big bourgeoisie :trumps
:isthis is this the sublated individual?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on March 25, 2020, 08:00:25 PM
https://twitter.com/Eater/status/1242926479228485632
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on March 26, 2020, 03:13:15 AM
https://twitter.com/latimes/status/1242636826864574464

Subway developing a class consciousness?  :doge
https://twitter.com/Carrion_Crawl/status/1242878882195243009

 :drool
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on March 26, 2020, 04:35:07 PM
https://twitter.com/RudyGiuliani/status/1243219538562482177

 :brain
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Rufus on March 26, 2020, 05:19:42 PM
Everyone knows the best possible perspectives ignore time.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on March 26, 2020, 08:24:31 PM
Rudy's tweet is already outdated, by the way, since we're now up to 1,200 corona deaths.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on March 26, 2020, 08:47:25 PM
Every day someone has tweeted a version of that: "We're really panicking about something that's only killed X people?"

I bet if you curated them it would be a great demonstration of the concept of exponential growth.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on March 26, 2020, 08:56:54 PM
socialism for viruses and rugged individualism for the hosts  >:(
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 26, 2020, 09:06:39 PM
Every day someone has tweeted a version of that: "We're really panicking about something that's only killed X people?"

I bet if you curated them it would be a great demonstration of the concept of exponential growth.

Here is one point in the chain

https://twitter.com/RealCandaceO/status/1243212428613226502
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on March 26, 2020, 09:33:18 PM
Every day someone has tweeted a version of that: "We're really panicking about something that's only killed X people?"

I bet if you curated them it would be a great demonstration of the concept of exponential growth.

Turns out you can do it just with Bill Mitchell's feed:

spoiler (click to show/hide)
https://twitter.com/mitchellvii/status/1234535839251734528
https://twitter.com/mitchellvii/status/1234861140590637059
https://twitter.com/mitchellvii/status/1234941633516494858
https://twitter.com/mitchellvii/status/1236979909035261953
https://twitter.com/mitchellvii/status/1237311169196625920
https://twitter.com/mitchellvii/status/1238083177635348482
https://twitter.com/mitchellvii/status/1238807094347923459
https://twitter.com/mitchellvii/status/1239257391385976832
https://twitter.com/mitchellvii/status/1239432471684558850
https://twitter.com/mitchellvii/status/1239933092149813250
https://twitter.com/mitchellvii/status/1240301428284981251
[close]

He stops referencing the running total at that point, though mentions daily numbers after that.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 26, 2020, 09:37:19 PM
gazing too much at Bill's tweeter is gazing into the void
stay safe
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on March 26, 2020, 10:09:00 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/XGNrjmt.png)

this is too awesome
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on March 26, 2020, 10:45:52 PM
Cons crying crocodile tears and hand-wringing and pearl-clutching over "suicides" due to an economic are disgusting, because I guarantee they didn't give one single damn about mental health issues before all this started up.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on March 26, 2020, 11:24:48 PM
Cons crying crocodile tears and hand-wringing and pearl-clutching over "suicides" due to an economic are disgusting, because I guarantee they didn't give one single damn about mental health issues before all this started up.

Not true!

Look at the three days following any mass shooting.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 26, 2020, 11:32:29 PM
Cons crying crocodile tears and hand-wringing and pearl-clutching over "suicides" due to an economic are disgusting, because I guarantee they didn't give one single damn about mental health issues before all this started up.

Not true!

Look at the three days following any mass shooting.

On one caveat, white shooter.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on March 27, 2020, 06:19:44 AM
https://twitter.com/hannxbaI/status/1242889858659627013

(https://i.imgur.com/1pnHz3j.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 27, 2020, 03:29:39 PM
Answer peeps

https://twitter.com/liz_franczak/status/1243619427502850048
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on March 27, 2020, 04:33:52 PM
He did a sum again

https://twitter.com/mitchellvii/status/1243630448888164353
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on March 27, 2020, 09:15:33 PM
https://twitter.com/lvl29mage/status/1243465588028002304
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on March 28, 2020, 01:53:14 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/k7rIWBb.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on March 28, 2020, 06:17:23 PM
https://monthlyreview.org/2020/03/27/covid-19-and-circuits-of-capital/

Quote
The failure to prepare for and react to the outbreak did not just start in December when countries around the world failed to respond once COVID-19 spilled out of Wuhan. In the United States, for instance, it did not start when Donald Trump dismantled his national security team’s pandemic preparation team or left seven hundred CDC positions unfilled.9 Nor did it start when feds failed to act on the results of a 2017 pandemic simulation showing the country was unprepared.10 Nor when, as stated in a Reuters headline, the United States “axed CDC expert job in China months before virus outbreak,” although missing the early direct contact from a U.S. expert on the ground in China certainly weakened the U.S. response. Nor did it start with the unfortunate decision not to use the already available test kits provided by the World Health Organization. Together, the delays in early information and total miss in testing will undoubtedly be responsible for many, probably thousands, of lost lives.11

The failures were actually programmed decades ago as the shared commons of public health were simultaneously neglected and monetized.12 A country captured by a regimen of individualized, just-in-time epidemiology—an utter contradiction—with barely enough hospital beds and equipment for normal operations, is by definition unable to marshal the resources necessary to pursue a China brand of suppression.

Monthly Review back at it again :whew
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on March 30, 2020, 12:10:00 PM
AOC breaks with Bernie on how to lead the left (https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/30/new-aoc-divides-the-left-150767)

Quote
After her victory in 2018, Ocasio-Cortez encouraged progressives to follow in her footsteps and run for Congress with the backing of the left-wing group Justice Democrats, even if it meant taking on powerful incumbents. Sixteen months later, the Missouri primary isn’t the only one Ocasio-Cortez is steering clear of.

Of the half-dozen incumbent primary challengers Justice Democrats is backing this cycle, Ocasio-Cortez has endorsed just two. Neither was a particularly risky move: Both candidates — Jessica Cisneros in Texas and Marie Newman in Illinois — were taking on conservative Democrats who oppose abortion rights and later earned the support of several prominent national Democrats.
Quote
Ocasio-Cortez’s reluctance marks a break with the outsider tactics of the activist left, represented by groups like Justice Democrats. This election cycle, the organization is trying to boot not just conservative Democrats but also some liberal Democrats and to replace them with members who are more left-wing. In other words, to replicate what it pulled off against Rep. Joe Crowley in 2018 by recruiting Ocasio-Cortez.

Ocasio-Cortez’s shift coincides with turnover among top aides in her congressional office — replacing some outspoken radicals with more traditional political professionals — along with a broader reckoning on the left on how to expand Sanders’ coalition after his failure to significantly do so in the presidential primary. Some progressives have questioned whether Sanders should have softened his anti-establishment rhetoric and tried to build bridges with mainstream Democrats who voted for Hillary Clinton in 2016 rather than betting big on turning out disaffected and first-time voters.
Quote
Ocasio-Cortez’s endorsement moves are not a fluke but part of a larger change over the past several months. After her disruptive, burn-it-down early months in Congress, Ocasio-Cortez, who colleagues say is often conflict-averse in person, has increasingly been trying to work more within the system. She is building coalitions with fellow Democratic members and picking her fights more selectively.

The changes have divided her supporters, with some lamenting she's been co-opted in short order by the system — and others asserting she's offering the left a more viable path toward sustained power.
Quote
In February, she dubbed Pelosi the “mama bear of the Democratic Party.”
when socialism gets old :lawd
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on March 30, 2020, 10:19:05 PM
 :bernie
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on April 01, 2020, 02:20:23 AM
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/common-good-constitutionalism/609037/
Quote
Originalism comes in several varieties (baroque debates about key theoretical ideas rage among its proponents), but their common core is the view that constitutional meaning was fixed at the time of the Constitution’s enactment. This approach served legal conservatives well in the hostile environment in which originalism was first developed, and for some time afterward.

But originalism has now outlived its utility, and has become an obstacle to the development of a robust, substantively conservative approach to constitutional law and interpretation. Such an approach—one might call it “common-good constitutionalism”—should be based on the principles that government helps direct persons, associations, and society generally toward the common good, and that strong rule in the interest of attaining the common good is entirely legitimate. In this time of global pandemic, the need for such an approach is all the greater, as it has become clear that a just governing order must have ample power to cope with large-scale crises of public health and well-being—reading “health” in many senses, not only literal and physical but also metaphorical and social.
Quote
Assured of this, conservatives ought to turn their attention to developing new and more robust alternatives to both originalism and left-liberal constitutionalism. It is now possible to imagine a substantive moral constitutionalism that, although not enslaved to the original meaning of the Constitution, is also liberated from the left-liberals’ overarching sacramental narrative, the relentless expansion of individualistic autonomy. Alternatively, in a formulation I prefer, one can imagine an illiberal legalism that is not “conservative” at all, insofar as standard conservatism is content to play defensively within the procedural rules of the liberal order.

This approach should take as its starting point substantive moral principles that conduce to the common good, principles that officials (including, but by no means limited to, judges) should read into the majestic generalities and ambiguities of the written Constitution. These principles include respect for the authority of rule and of rulers; respect for the hierarchies needed for society to function; solidarity within and among families, social groups, and workers’ unions, trade associations, and professions; appropriate subsidiarity, or respect for the legitimate roles of public bodies and associations at all levels of government and society; and a candid willingness to “legislate morality”—indeed, a recognition that all legislation is necessarily founded on some substantive conception of morality, and that the promotion of morality is a core and legitimate function of authority. Such principles promote the common good and make for a just and well-ordered society.
Quote
Common-good constitutionalism is not legal positivism, meaning that it is not tethered to particular written instruments of civil law or the will of the legislators who created them. Instead it draws upon an immemorial tradition that includes, in addition to positive law, sources such as the ius gentium—the law of nations or the “general law” common to all civilized legal systems—and principles of objective natural morality, including legal morality in the sense used by the American legal theorist Lon Fuller: the inner logic that the activity of law should follow in order to function well as law.

Common-good constitutionalism is also not legal liberalism or libertarianism. Its main aim is certainly not to maximize individual autonomy or to minimize the abuse of power (an incoherent goal in any event), but instead to ensure that the ruler has the power needed to rule well.
Quote
Constraints on power are good only derivatively, insofar as they contribute to the common good; the emphasis should not be on liberty as an abstract object of quasi-religious devotion, but on particular human liberties whose protection is a duty of justice or prudence on the part of the ruler.

Finally, unlike legal liberalism, common-good constitutionalism does not suffer from a horror of political domination and hierarchy, because it sees that law is parental, a wise teacher and an inculcator of good habits. Just authority in rulers can be exercised for the good of subjects, if necessary even against the subjects’ own perceptions of what is best for them—perceptions that may change over time anyway, as the law teaches, habituates, and re-forms them. Subjects will come to thank the ruler whose legal strictures, possibly experienced at first as coercive, encourage subjects to form more authentic desires for the individual and common goods, better habits, and beliefs that better track and promote communal well-being.
Quote
This is not the occasion to offer a bill of particulars about how constitutional law might change under this approach, but a few broad strokes can be sketched. The Court’s jurisprudence on free speech, abortion, sexual liberties, and related matters will prove vulnerable under a regime of common-good constitutionalism. The claim, from the notorious joint opinion in Planned Parenthood v. Casey, that each individual may “define one’s own concept of existence, of meaning, of the universe, and of the mystery of human life” should be not only rejected but stamped as abominable, beyond the realm of the acceptable forever after. So too should the libertarian assumptions central to free-speech law and free-speech ideology—that government is forbidden to judge the quality and moral worth of public speech, that “one man’s vulgarity is another’s lyric,”  and so on—fall under the ax. Libertarian conceptions of property rights and economic rights will also have to go, insofar as they bar the state from enforcing duties of community and solidarity in the use and distribution of resources.

As for the structure and distribution of authority within government, common-good constitutionalism will favor a powerful presidency ruling over a powerful bureaucracy, the latter acting through principles of administrative law’s inner morality with a view to promoting solidarity and subsidiarity. The bureaucracy will be seen not as an enemy, but as the strong hand of legitimate rule.
Quote
Elaborating on the common-good principle that no constitutional right to refuse vaccination exists, constitutional law will define in broad terms the authority of the state to protect the public’s health and well-being, protecting the weak from pandemics and scourges of many kinds—biological, social, and economic—even when doing so requires overriding the selfish claims of individuals to private “rights.” Thus the state will enjoy authority to curb the social and economic pretensions of the urban-gentry liberals who so often place their own satisfactions (financial and sexual) and the good of their class or social milieu above the common good.
uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh :doge :doge :doge :doge
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on April 01, 2020, 02:22:08 AM
Quote
Cornelius Adrian Comstock Vermeule (/vərˈmjuːl/[1], born May 2, 1968) is an American legal scholar, currently a law professor at Harvard Law School.
Quote
Since converting to Catholicism, Vermeule is now an advocate of integralism, a Roman Catholic political doctrine which calls for the abolition of the division between church and state, in order that the resulting theocratic state can promote a religiously-determined "Highest Good" in place of the personal autonomy of a liberal democracy. Their ideal is to create this new confessional Catholic regime through "strategic raillement", or transformation from within institutions and bureaucracies, rather than by winning elections. The groundwork for a full integralist regime would then be in place when liberal democracy dies. The new state would "exercise coercion over baptized citizens in a manner different from non-baptized citizens".[9][10][11]

To achieve this end, Vermeule has suggested giving confirmed Catholics priority in immigration, allowing them to "jump immediately to the head of the queue". Vermeule describes this as being essential to "the eventual formation of the Empire of Our Lady of Guadalupe, and ultimately the world government required by natural law".[12]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on April 01, 2020, 10:12:30 AM
The popists are at it again.

Kulturkampf NOW  >:(
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on April 01, 2020, 08:07:34 PM
Automation should tie into things should it not?
Increase in productivity but no reward for the worker. Increasing concentration of capital. Utilize research across the world and years for the purpose of the cheapest and most exploitable labour possible. Foreground for class conflict fomentation. Etc...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSKi8HfcxEk
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on April 01, 2020, 08:55:36 PM
Anarchism is speccing into dorkism so no worries
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on April 02, 2020, 01:21:33 AM
Was an interesting read. Post-Corona is a plump topic.
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200331-covid-19-how-will-the-coronavirus-change-the-world

And
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/03/19/coronavirus-effect-economy-life-society-analysis-covid-135579
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on April 02, 2020, 11:40:33 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvkUXT0pMYE
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on April 02, 2020, 10:46:34 PM
I don't know where else to share this but I just need curly to see it

https://twitter.com/RedKahina/status/1245711159434653697

https://twitter.com/RedKahina/status/1245472220937404416

https://twitter.com/RedKahina/status/1245163515524124679

https://twitter.com/RedKahina/status/1245164619330719744

she is NOT handling this well
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on April 02, 2020, 10:58:37 PM
https://twitter.com/cordeliers/status/1234552779370307592
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on April 02, 2020, 11:01:01 PM
I don't know where else to share this but I just need curly to see it

https://twitter.com/RedKahina/status/1245711159434653697

https://twitter.com/RedKahina/status/1245472220937404416

https://twitter.com/RedKahina/status/1245163515524124679

https://twitter.com/RedKahina/status/1245164619330719744

she is NOT handling this well
she hot?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on April 03, 2020, 08:44:06 PM
https://twitter.com/jasonhickel/status/1246168459471437827
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on April 03, 2020, 11:02:04 PM
pretty sure we're literally in a revolutionary situation right now. would be cool if the movement had been organized and articulated clear goals other than expanding federal programs.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: toku on April 03, 2020, 11:04:26 PM
virgin clear goals vs chad charismatic championing of broad ideas and action
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on April 04, 2020, 12:25:14 PM
Fucking lol at those Twitter handles. Club des Cordeliers, Rosa Luxembourgeoise...  ::)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on April 05, 2020, 05:48:25 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/X9GVETF.jpg) ;)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on April 07, 2020, 06:20:31 PM
https://twitter.com/KateAronoff/status/1247401849105330182
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on April 07, 2020, 10:06:20 PM
It's not subtle and it's not hate but that's like one of his biggest ideas ('real competition' vs imperfect competition). Shaikh's a back to basics guy. Sweezy and Baran, especially after Steindl's work on stagnation caused by capacity under-utilization, developed a whole strain of Marxist analysis that centered primarily around monopolies. The empirical data never really shook out in their favor and there's no correlation between industry concentration or profit rates. Or firm size and profit rates.

But none of Marx's arguments relied on the existence of monopoly powers imposing large markups. Market competition and the mode of production were enough to produce all of Marx's basic theses about capitalism.

You should read that book if you want to change your specialty from humanities dork to economics dork  :-*

Edit:
Quote
There’s been a tendency on the part of some Marxists to dismiss the relation between these three thinkers. That means setting aside the forty years of work Marx did on the real patterns of capitalism. Marxists become complacently satisfied with the ideas of exploitation — which they understand as an abstract process, a seriously inadequate conception, in my opinion — and alienation.

But why did Marx then bother with things like the “reserve army of labor,” “circuits of capital,” “schemes of reproduction,” “prices of production,” “differential and absolute rent,” etc.? Couldn’t he have been a “good” Marxist and just stopped at “surplus value,” “exploitation,” and “commodity fetishism,” devoting the rest of his life to politics? In my view the conventional Marxist focus compresses and diminishes Marx’s work to a particular range of topics with which Marxists have become comfortable.

That’s partly because you don’t need to deal with competition and all the complex phenomena to which it gives rise if you start off with the assumption of monopoly. This is the orthodox line within Marxist theory, which I reject.
:whew
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on April 08, 2020, 05:02:06 PM
https://williambowles.info/2020/04/05/why-coronavirus-could-spark-a-capitalist-supernova/

By John Smith (author of Imperialism in the 21st Century)

Interesting read. Yeah, it does seem like the current situation is one for which the South will get the short-end. But can't say it's shocking, all around there is prioritization within borders.
Or in the case of the USA, not even, much more dysfunctional and even the States and Feds unable to function as one.

Certainly the discourse is going to be on some real shit this year, where that leads, we shall see.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on April 08, 2020, 05:38:54 PM
Yes it is a little weird seeing his attempt at motivating, he doesn't have the chops Parenti has  :hmph
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on April 08, 2020, 07:37:56 PM
On that note, finally mustered motivation to read a bit.
Against Empire :aah

Arms for Profit section, how cutting and relevant  :whew
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on April 08, 2020, 08:35:01 PM
fuck you americans, you devils :pacspit
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on April 09, 2020, 01:11:55 AM
Melted through that shit like James through goodwill or Mandark through Shosta.
Fuck, now I'm mad and want to do something but can't even leave the house :rage
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on April 09, 2020, 02:54:11 PM
https://twitter.com/TwinklingTania/status/1248303683839733761

 :kermit
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on April 09, 2020, 03:25:33 PM
trump won't halt deportations. me trying to figure out how farm labor is both illegal and essential:

(https://media.giphy.com/media/RLhwfuy4v03XmCR6EW/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: El Babua on April 10, 2020, 12:13:27 AM
Most of the Covid spoils have been taken by capital already.

Let's see how housebroken the west really is, cause things need to get violent if labor wants to keep any remnants of power they had previously.   :doge
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on April 10, 2020, 12:25:11 AM
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/92663826_3010109289065985_1616161468674211840_o.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=u5oOBaTu5OUAX-4gkrg&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=95d570268f1582cf9f0780459d99736a&oe=5EB675BF)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: toku on April 10, 2020, 01:05:30 AM
I think everyones trying to be cool but nobody here in america at least seems to be thinking past May 1st in any capacity rn. It's really scary.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on April 10, 2020, 02:46:07 AM
I think everyones trying to be cool but nobody here in america at least seems to be thinking past May 1st in any capacity rn. It's really scary.

It's not just the US. Governments don't even have an exit strategy, at least not one they shared with us yet, lockdowns are being reviewed and renewed every two weeks... No visibility.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on April 10, 2020, 02:53:39 AM
We haven't really talked about it in here but this corona thing has been a massive blow to everyone in organized labor. Hotels around here for example fired all the union employees asap as soon as this happened, to sum up all my interactions its been a real hollowing out of several strongly unionized industries and a lot of organizing is going to have to start over from block one. Sucks big ass. People are talking about how the bernie L will get people in the DSA or PSL or whatever but as far as legacy organized labor I don't have anything good to say  :(
Article I saw today but have not read beyond the topline: https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-the-union-where-coronavirus-puts-98--of-members-out-of-work
Quote
Unite Here was a rare union success story. But then the coronavirus decimated the restaurant, food service and hotel industries, where most of its 307,000 members work. “We’re fighting for our survival,” its president told ProPublica.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on April 11, 2020, 04:40:04 PM
(https://i.redd.it/8ovfrj7f04s41.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on April 11, 2020, 05:21:28 PM
Looking up leftist movements in this political meme of a province.
There is an Alberta Communist Party and they get memed on for looking dorky :goty
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on April 12, 2020, 01:40:06 AM
I think everyones trying to be cool but nobody here in america at least seems to be thinking past May 1st in any capacity rn. It's really scary.
in the first world we'll just push the keynesian gas pedal. I'm confident it'll work. There are so many businesses idle and ready to go. The Fed is also fully accommodating and we, luckily, had our next financial crisis prematurely so things will be sorted out by the time everything has to be online again. We might have a lot of net loss still, and it'll be painful for a while, but nothing like the depression or even as bad as the last recession.

The developing world is completely ass fucked though. I don't even want to get into this. We're not going to help, either, because "we have our own problems". They deserve our support, our attention, and most importantly our solidarity. Say no to debt restructuring, advocate for relief, demand free medical aid and personnel. And say no to repercussions for China.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on April 12, 2020, 12:11:45 PM
https://twitter.com/Ad_Inifinitum/status/1248803909977681922
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on April 12, 2020, 12:59:31 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/nSwV4Gy.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on April 12, 2020, 01:06:22 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/nSwV4Gy.jpg)

Didn't know Kirblar was into Photoshop.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on April 12, 2020, 01:08:08 PM
Just realized Sweden and Mexico are on the left (https://cdn.lihkg.com/assets/faces/dog/haha.gif)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on April 12, 2020, 02:18:18 PM
On one end we've got fascism and the "new axis", imperial japan but nazis go on da other end doe
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on April 12, 2020, 02:18:57 PM
:rage
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on April 12, 2020, 03:48:40 PM
claim your esoteric niches
maybe leftwing nationalism for me :thinking but dark enlightenment sounds edgy  8)

(https://i.redd.it/0dnud7gl5es41.png)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on April 12, 2020, 04:16:15 PM
Queer Anarchism :klob
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on April 13, 2020, 10:07:05 AM
The anger in the comments :dead

https://twitter.com/DemSocialists/status/1249351571831435269

Thread.  People are dying.  Please read.
Send recs for Netflix viewing, I finished my Friends marathon.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on April 13, 2020, 10:31:29 AM
How can you be an electoralist organization but not consistently vote for the lesser evil?  :doge
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on April 13, 2020, 11:03:49 AM
@Kremlin : Politburo will not endorse @MarshallTito.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Oblivion on April 13, 2020, 11:22:27 AM
https://twitter.com/fishplums/status/1249639385785647104
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Pissy F Benny on April 13, 2020, 12:27:34 PM
I'm sure that document would have been picked up by the tory media at a more opportune time

Can't say I'm shocked that the anti-semitism thing was kind of over egged though :doge

None of this is really a shock though, and I'm someone whose eyes glazed over whenever seeing something about the pro/anti corbers faction warz and undermining.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on April 13, 2020, 01:46:07 PM
As far as I understand the antisemitism issues are real but existed before Corbyn's tenure, were equally brushed over then and there's not a lot of water to the idea that his brand of leftism was a catalyst. The investigation also concludes that factions actively sabotaged the party and that they quite literally would rather lose elections than having him win (or at least have any sort of good showing).
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Pissy F Benny on April 13, 2020, 01:59:26 PM
Oh they're real, its not unsual to see someone going from criticising isreal as a nation to going full on anti semite is it? But I still think it was blown out of proportion into something bigger as a stick to beat labour with and I'm sure pro isreal types hyped it up too because the last thing they'd want is a pro palestine prime minister :yeshrug

The 2 or 3 attempted "coups" from the centrists or w/e you wanna call them was probably proof enough that they'd sooner eat and drink their own piss and shit for 5 years than have corbyn in power. Still fucking crazy they'd sabotage their own party from within, but not shocking at all.

I suppose it couldn't have come at a better time for the current labour leadership because aside from corbyn hardcores, no one seems to give a shit due to current circumstances  :doge
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on April 13, 2020, 02:03:06 PM
we have the filler wordfilter for a reason
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on April 13, 2020, 02:04:07 PM
I liked Rebecca Long Bailey btw, she was the clear favorite until she wasn't so can someone explain to me what happened?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Pissy F Benny on April 13, 2020, 02:07:45 PM
Probably being portrayed as a corbyn puppet and not really doing anything to tackle it.

The whole leadership election was low key as fuck, and Starmer had it in the bag from nearly the start anyway.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on April 13, 2020, 02:10:30 PM
wankers.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Pissy F Benny on April 13, 2020, 02:14:42 PM
She was the fav early doors when it was all rumours about who'd be running. There was a poll early on showing starmer had a big lead and it stopped being something that gathered much interest aside from your more engaged party members and what not. This is all going from my terrible memory so don't take it as gospel.

Only thing I remember from any of the debates was them all saying they were fillers :lol
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on April 13, 2020, 02:23:44 PM
Accidentally triggering the wordfilter that we just talked about :lawd

people here played it kind of cool and some people LIKE ESCH really played down labour losing but for me it was a huge gut punch. When I woke up and saw those numbers I was truly devastated. It wasn't that long ago that highschool shosta was writing essays about the NHS and wondering why i lived in a backwards country when the UK could accomplish so much with its wealth by comparison (free healthcare and paltry tuitions). Now we both live in backwards countries  :respect but no, really, watching the conservatives destroy everything over ten years has been hard. Like watching your favorite musician fall off and go in and out of rehab.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Pissy F Benny on April 13, 2020, 02:32:23 PM
tories winning in december wasn't a shock at all here. obviously if may was still in it would have been a different story, but a lot of people love boris for some strange reason and it was full on brexit mania.

I think a lot of people got their hopes up from a few pics on twitter showing a lot of young people queuing up outside polling stations, but the all the polls had it pretty much right this time.

at least we'll probably have another election in the next couple of years if recent history is anything to go by  :lol



Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on April 13, 2020, 02:52:23 PM
Funnily enough then-French-PM Socialist-with-a-Trotskyist-past Lionel Jospin got into hot water for saying Israel had a right to defend itself (while Chirac was more about "Gaullist policy towards Arabs") instead of the pretty stock accusation of being a closet antisemite. Which is indeed something that seems to resurface in a laser focused way every time an old school leftist gets prominent.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on April 13, 2020, 03:18:30 PM
Jezza didn't die in a suicide attack on Tel Aviv just so you could spit on his grave :tocry
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Rufus on April 13, 2020, 04:19:55 PM
Careful with that, or you'll end up breeding a Jinping-level authoritarian.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on April 13, 2020, 04:30:40 PM
spelling his name wrong :heh
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on April 13, 2020, 04:40:17 PM
Critical support for Big Baller Jezz for aspirations of teaching the crimes of the English Empire in schools but he's going to need to go all the way for me and advocate for it's dismantling. Some bonuses would include things like shattering every statue of the monarchy and Winston Churchill. I think we might also want to look into community service projects to help English youth learn from Bangladeshi and Irish farmers in the fields. This would of course be means-tested to select for the heirs of english banks and landlords.

perfidious albions complicit in the deaths of millions of irish and bengali among many others yet I never heard about it in schooling
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Rufus on April 13, 2020, 04:44:52 PM
spelling his name wrong :heh
You saw nothing.

Critical support for Big Baller Jezz for aspirations of teaching the crimes of the English Empire in schools but he's going to need to go all the way for me and advocate for it's dismantling. Some bonuses would include things like shattering every statue of the monarchy and Winston Churchill. I think we might also want to look into community service projects to help English youth learn from Bangladeshi and Irish farmers in the fields. This would of course be means-tested to select for the heirs of english banks and landlords.

perfidious albions complicit in the deaths of millions of irish and bengali among many others yet I never heard about it in schooling
Lizzy 2 is still on your money, isn't she? Small wonder.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on April 13, 2020, 04:48:30 PM
didn't know you guys were so close you refer to him by his given name (https://cdn.lihkg.com/assets/faces/dog/hehe.gif)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Rufus on April 13, 2020, 04:52:09 PM
Their checks don't bounce. :yeshrug
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on April 13, 2020, 06:46:24 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Q1dLvXx.png)

but they promised :stahp
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Rufus on April 13, 2020, 07:02:40 PM
Reminds me of something Kara posted a while back:
(https://i.redd.it/rtafxomg3jvz.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Joe Molotov on April 13, 2020, 07:32:10 PM
The smiley face mask slipped off. Who could have forseen it?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on April 13, 2020, 07:37:22 PM
Speaking of social-fascism anybody else peep all the news coming out of the Labour party report that got dropped this weekend? I know this is Cursed Albion and all but this really feels like another step in the disintegration of the social-democratic pact, like read through some of this stuff :neogaf

Quote
It shows references to Corbyn-supporting party staff as “trots”, conversations referring to former director of communications Seumas Milne as “dracula”, and that he was “spiteful and evil and we should make sure he is never allowed in our party if it’s last thing we do”. There were also mentions of Corbyn’s former chief of staff Karie Murphy as “medusa”, a “crazy woman” and a “bitch face cow” that would “make a good dartboard”.

:dead

Lenin was right, Kautsky :pacspit (this post is not an endorsement of revolutionary larping)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on April 13, 2020, 08:37:33 PM
https://twitter.com/lhfang/status/1249777968471130112

they pay this guy to write shit like this :lawd
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on April 13, 2020, 11:09:09 PM
Lee Fang and Michael Tracey pulling the reverse Daou.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on April 14, 2020, 01:13:35 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/NK5GEji.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on April 15, 2020, 06:43:34 PM
https://twitter.com/brizzle_bill/status/1250548580835905537
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on April 15, 2020, 07:44:34 PM
Who do you guys trust for political takes on perfidious Albion? Their media is somehow even worse than ours with the exception of really niche outlets like New Left Review which aren't exactly up to date on the latest developments
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on April 15, 2020, 08:00:16 PM
That's the conclusion I've come to. A truly cursed isle :stahp
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on April 15, 2020, 08:07:40 PM
you guys ever read rick perlstein? wutcha think?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on April 15, 2020, 08:18:52 PM
Read Nixonland a few years ago and vaguely recall thinking it was alright as pop history but getting annoyed by the reductiveness of its analysis, especially in accounting for electoral results. IIRC his discussion of the 1970 midterms was focused entirely on Nixon's tactics and blamed them for the Republicans' disappointing results without once mentioning how a first term presidential incumbent's party usually does poorly in midterms.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on April 15, 2020, 08:19:14 PM
I read Before The Storm and Nixonland and liked them but this also triggers the "don't trust my own opinions that are over a decade old" rule.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on April 16, 2020, 03:22:01 AM
^what companions would you recommend for capital?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Rufus on April 16, 2020, 07:55:44 AM
Who do you guys trust for political takes on perfidious Albion? Their media is somehow even worse than ours with the exception of really niche outlets like New Left Review which aren't exactly up to date on the latest developments
Not a news source, and not solely focused on Britain, far from it, but...
https://www.talkingpoliticspodcast.com/
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on April 16, 2020, 08:03:56 AM
^what companions would you recommend for capital?

Exploitation.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on April 16, 2020, 08:30:32 AM
i'm not ready for practical side of things, let's stick to theory for now
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Rufus on April 16, 2020, 08:45:07 AM
Aren't you in accounting?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on April 16, 2020, 09:30:42 AM
taxes! indirect taxes at that, and i try avoid tax accounting as much as i possibly can and stick to advisory & strategic stuff
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on April 16, 2020, 03:20:34 PM
https://twitter.com/evanmalmgren/status/1250811904135749639

THERE ARE DOZENS OF US. DOZENS!
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on April 16, 2020, 03:35:00 PM
TMZ
ResetERA
TheOnion
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on April 16, 2020, 06:39:21 PM
Regular New Left Review reader checking in :expert

N+1 and Viewpoint pretty often as well, but even Jacobin and The Nation can have worthwhile stuff from time to time. Think I've read one piece from Endnotes which was interesting but also exhausting pessemistic
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on April 17, 2020, 11:23:51 PM
https://twitter.com/lhfang/status/1249777968471130112

they pay this guy to write shit like this :lawd
https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/status/1251259137830379522
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on April 17, 2020, 11:29:21 PM
I posted some hott quotes in the garbage thread from a single page of ResetERA's thread on that if you're feeling self-destructive  :kermit
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on April 17, 2020, 11:47:17 PM
The SPD should never be let off easy :pacspit but I do agree that forums poster curly should join the united front instead of nurturing his crush on Gloria La Riva :hitler
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on April 17, 2020, 11:58:43 PM
https://twitter.com/cordeliers/status/1250550257366302720
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on April 18, 2020, 12:10:09 AM
I remember when the big thing was banning all face coverings because only people with something to hide would cover their face. How quickly our tinpot Mussolini's change their ways.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on April 18, 2020, 12:42:50 AM
https://youtu.be/D-wFBs64www?t=704

we haven't had a matt rant this good in a long time :lawd starts at 11:50

going in on The Nation at 21:00 :lol
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: nachobro on April 18, 2020, 11:08:18 AM
i just noticed how much he looks like sam hyde :doge
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on April 18, 2020, 02:55:47 PM
https://youtu.be/uSYaV60qap8?t=6760

we're eatin junk food tonight, boys :rejoice
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on April 18, 2020, 03:39:30 PM
I posted some hott quotes in the garbage thread from a single page of ResetERA's thread on that if you're feeling self-destructive  :kermit

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/535/091/d97.jpg)

spoiler (click to show/hide)
I might :stahp
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on April 18, 2020, 03:44:49 PM
The SPD should never be let off easy :pacspit but I do agree that forums poster curly should join the united front instead of nurturing his crush on Gloria La Riva :hitler

As a Californian I'm free to waste my vote as I please, don't blame me that you swing-staters have to waste your vote on a Democrat
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on April 18, 2020, 04:35:12 PM
https://twitter.com/lhfang/status/1249777968471130112

they pay this guy to write shit like this :lawd
https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/status/1251259137830379522

I know about this thanks to Parenti-sama  :jeb
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on April 19, 2020, 12:31:59 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/qzz0P0b.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/XxTYMDN.png)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on April 19, 2020, 01:00:57 AM
I don't wanna post about memes, sectarian shit or Reddit in this thread unless I absolutely have to but this one got me. So many levels of ideology to this, it's like a barolo with a decade of age. You have to be completely borktarded to tease out all the little secondary notes :delicious

https://twitter.com/COMPLETEANAR/status/1251546958025707521
finally, I've found it. the worst tweet in history
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on April 19, 2020, 03:58:16 AM
shosta and i are going to scramble our brains now, pray for us

^what companions would you recommend for capital?

Really I think there's a couple different ways to approach it and that depends on who you are and what your needs are. I started off reading v1 and v2 using the big harvey companion Verso sells. I think that book  is pretty good, but I think I still struggled for a while because I didn't read any classical poli econ in schools aside from maybe a little smith? and i think he doesn't 100 percent nail things like the value-form.  Anyway its annoying because marx spends tons of time directly addressing their arguments sans context but only someone with genuine enthusiasm for this like shosta is actually gonna sit there and read Ricardo. I'll just list off some secondary stuff that helped me and why. As far as marx himself reading wage price profit and the grundrisse helped me as well.

:yeshrug

https://www.marxists.org/archive/pilling/works/capital/index.htm

this book is a great overall companion. easy to navigate in this form too and its free.

https://www.marxists.org/archive/rubin/index.htm

Isaak Rubin has some good writing just on value itself.

https://www.marxists.org/subject/economy/authors/anikin/pre-marxian-economy.pdf

this old soviet textbook talking about the objects of investigation and philosophy of economics up until marx is great imo, i love all the bitchy dunks on say and sismondi and it helped me understand how political economy as a science developed historically from a marxist worldview. easy read. enjoy this stuff because it gives context as to why and how these investigations took place and the historical conditions that gave birth to them (e.g. ricardo and smiths professions giving them insights but also showing how their investigations were hindered by the conditions of their time and class obligations) and i like the side of marxism that explores how material conditions give rise to the possibility for a specific school of thought or insight to be conceived and thus, the possibility for knowledge itself


https://www.marxists.org/archive/ilyenkov/index.htm

Ilyenkov's work was useful to me for understanding the core logic and "philosophy" of capital, ie the object of marx's investigation isnt an object but a process. shit like that. I think this stuff is probably gonna get less mileage from you cuz u strike me as someone who's given some reading time to idealism/materialism/logic in general but i figure it can't hurt.
marxists.org is a blocked site here  :dead thanks for sharing though, will try find alternative sources
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on April 19, 2020, 01:17:46 PM
eh, teek hai I’ll find them one way or another and my backlog is ridiculous as is
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on April 19, 2020, 05:25:10 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/hVTMIJf.png)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: El Babua on April 19, 2020, 11:07:59 PM
https://twitter.com/cushbomb/status/1252069864803614721
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on April 19, 2020, 11:17:51 PM
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/535/091/d97.jpg)

spoiler (click to show/hide)
I might :stahp
[close]
Sorry, unlike some other posters, whenever I make suggestions about things related to ResetERA.com outside of the garbage thread please consider them entirely directed at stost, Vom, etc. (sometimes Esch and others) more than most non-garbage thread posters like yourself or jake or Mandark.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Though I will admit that particular thread of theirs IS pretty good for the "thinking of your own concerns (like sexual assault) is selfish and egotistical when UberHitler could take power thanks to you not voting" SACRIFICE FOR The Party postings.
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on April 19, 2020, 11:27:40 PM
stop calling this number
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on April 19, 2020, 11:34:22 PM
fine! i can shoulder four times the burden! ill vote four, five, even ten times for biden! diamond joe forever. no malarkey. fire it up yes we can

:mjcry
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on April 20, 2020, 01:33:27 PM
https://twitter.com/BlakeDontCrack/status/1252288365950464000
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on April 20, 2020, 08:17:12 PM
Seeing Xanax Joe's latest commercial made me want to throw my lot in with curly and Kara and show some love to Gloria at the ballot box. I'm over it. :trumps

At these rates of growth we can flip Utah :o
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on April 20, 2020, 08:17:52 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/doltery/status/1252299368117370881

Figured this is as good a place as this as any
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on April 21, 2020, 02:11:16 PM
(https://www.mintpressnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/GLR_Chavez_Mar_del_Plata_2005.jpg)

must... resist... :stahp
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on April 22, 2020, 04:14:37 PM
https://twitter.com/vincecable/status/1253020673573871617

Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on April 22, 2020, 04:17:01 PM
Glad to see Lib Dems demand that Boris Johnson take control of the commanding heights of the economy!
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on April 23, 2020, 01:21:46 AM
https://twitter.com/libcomorg/status/1253079244298694658
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BIONIC on April 23, 2020, 01:34:45 AM
I am the walrus.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on April 23, 2020, 06:13:01 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/qBEHVQa.jpg)

the queen don't miss  :rejoice queen azealia took down musker and his lil skank too

(https://i.imgur.com/w5XvfBJ.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/BvoJlLi.jpg)

 :bow :bow :bow :bow :bow :bow :bow :bow2 :bow2 :bow2 :bow2 :bow2
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on April 23, 2020, 09:16:04 PM
Think her account got suspended because she said Russians were both inbred and crossbred :lol
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: El Babua on April 23, 2020, 09:33:35 PM
:dead
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on April 24, 2020, 11:38:34 AM
https://twitter.com/DSA_LosAngeles/status/1253371039922479104
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on April 24, 2020, 12:47:58 PM
Reminds me of that line in Settlers about how European marxists will always fail to stand up for non-white people.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on April 24, 2020, 01:14:44 PM
https://twitter.com/davidgraeber/status/1253717069876604930

:lol
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on April 24, 2020, 03:14:10 PM
https://twitter.com/zeithistoriker/status/1253708682665136128

Democratic centralism :rejoice
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on April 24, 2020, 08:45:49 PM
I know Verso publishes some cranks but that thread really botches the story about Bretton Woods. Reading that you'd think there was some kind of international coup by the neoliberals to get rid of the fixed rates. By 1971 the situation had become completely unsustainable and there was no other option but to end convertibility.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on April 25, 2020, 06:56:16 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/AntonJaegermm/status/1253857976886198272

 :rollsafe
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on April 25, 2020, 09:19:49 PM
https://twitter.com/DilanPCook/status/1254217625464385539

 :kermit
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on April 27, 2020, 06:07:43 AM
yeah this isn't terrifying at all https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/microsoft-cryptocurrency-mining-brain-waves-body-data-bitcoin-a9480766.html
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on April 27, 2020, 03:16:26 PM
Might be bored enough to try to make sense of value form theory  :thinking
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on April 28, 2020, 11:23:10 PM
 yet to unravel the mysteries of value form theory but this article that's somewhat related is really good:

https://nplusonemag.com/issue-28/reviews/the-bleak-left/ (https://nplusonemag.com/issue-28/reviews/the-bleak-left/)

Touches on VFT but mainly it's about the big problem in nu-Socialism, the decline of the wage-earning industrial class that was supposed to deliver the revolution
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on April 29, 2020, 04:37:18 AM
https://twitter.com/jewcommie/status/1255308398507278336

 :kermit
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: toku on April 30, 2020, 05:29:07 PM
https://twitter.com/ExtraSmallRobin/status/1255800047154925569

Idk if we're gonna make it past May.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on April 30, 2020, 08:09:24 PM
https://twitter.com/peterdaou/status/1256001921300803586

 :lol
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on April 30, 2020, 08:42:02 PM
4 more years and Daou is becoming Maoist News Network 2.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on April 30, 2020, 09:49:43 PM
https://twitter.com/jewcommie/status/1255308398507278336

 :kermit

https://twitter.com/ChiefGaziKodzo/status/1255805794072788993

 :doge
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on April 30, 2020, 11:12:06 PM
https://twitter.com/ExtraSmallRobin/status/1255800047154925569

Idk if we're gonna make it past May.

the virus wasn't a real virus, but NANOMACHINES created by a megacorp with various goals including manipulation of politicians
 :comeon
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: remy on April 30, 2020, 11:55:11 PM
https://twitter.com/ExtraSmallRobin/status/1255800047154925569

Idk if we're gonna make it past May.

the virus wasn't a real virus, but NANOMACHINES created by a megacorp with various goals including manipulation of politicians
 :comeon
different to corona how?????????
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Madrun Badrun on April 30, 2020, 11:59:17 PM
One wasn't spread by 5G.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on May 01, 2020, 12:21:53 AM
https://twitter.com/ExtraSmallRobin/status/1255800047154925569

Idk if we're gonna make it past May.

the virus wasn't a real virus, but NANOMACHINES created by a megacorp with various goals including manipulation of politicians
 :comeon
different to corona how?????????

where is my fucking augmented vision
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on May 01, 2020, 08:45:08 PM
The Intercept being worth that much in the first place :existential
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on May 01, 2020, 08:50:35 PM
are you guys materialists? like wrt general ontology, do you think that everything there is is reductively physical? ive been bored and am wondering whether its necessary to be if you wanna employ something like histmat
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on May 01, 2020, 08:59:39 PM
Nah, I'm a straddler who says while everything should be able to be reduced we don't (at least yet) have the capability to comprehend or understand it as such so our only recourse is theoretical.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on May 02, 2020, 01:48:00 AM
https://twitter.com/okhotskatka/status/1255982516827234304
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Rufus on May 02, 2020, 10:00:30 AM
Welp, I've spent a lot of the quarantine in the idealist world while comparing and contrasting with the relevant left philosophy but: My take is that we basically don't know in the end wrt ontology and may never know but i came out with more questions (how stable are the boundaries between natural science and social science really?) than answers. ussr and prc thinkers had a lot of thoughts about this and i haven't taken a strict line but one thing i really do agree with is the idea that material circumstances shape ideology and consciousness and in that respect acknowledging this is essential for both analysis of history and political action. but TBH i'll have to check back with you in a year or something.

:mjcry
I've settled on this being true regardless of any heavy reading I won't do anyway. Can't see how it wouldn't be. Can't escape the meat prison and all its needs.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on May 02, 2020, 02:30:37 PM
are you guys materialists? like wrt general ontology, do you think that everything there is is reductively physical? ive been bored and am wondering whether its necessary to be if you wanna employ something like histmat
I had way too religious an upbringing
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on May 02, 2020, 10:13:35 PM
https://twitter.com/UrFavNoIsrael/status/1255604915336089605
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 03, 2020, 01:55:25 AM
are you guys materialists? like wrt general ontology, do you think that everything there is is reductively physical? ive been bored and am wondering whether its necessary to be if you wanna employ something like histmat
https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/1256733482501447685
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on May 03, 2020, 04:26:42 AM
you can still think all the facts are physical!
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on May 03, 2020, 01:21:37 PM
https://twitter.com/davidchang/status/1256993670311620612
https://twitter.com/davidchang/status/1256995712723816466
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 03, 2020, 01:56:51 PM
you can still think all the facts are physical!
currently imagining a monkey named entailment with a long ass tail that physically pushes the premises together

that's the world I want to live in
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: toku on May 03, 2020, 04:27:25 PM
https://twitter.com/camilateleSUR/status/1256963936093683712

didnt know where to post this one
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on May 03, 2020, 04:29:24 PM
Look, it's all well and good but we have strong intelligence that Chavismo escaped from a Cuban lab.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 04, 2020, 02:47:01 AM
https://twitter.com/camilateleSUR/status/1256963936093683712

didnt know where to post this one
https://twitter.com/gianfiorella/status/1257113002698051587

:dead :dead :dead
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Joe Molotov on May 04, 2020, 03:02:42 AM
https://twitter.com/AmbJohnBolton/status/1256015582689988610
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on May 04, 2020, 02:45:11 PM
Don't know if this got posted anywhere, figured it's most relevant to the political economy thread:

https://mobile.twitter.com/JStein_WaPo/status/1257303959229943808
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on May 04, 2020, 04:15:30 PM
It's rare enough that I can only say : Kudos for speaking his mind and walking the walk.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on May 05, 2020, 02:33:50 AM
https://twitter.com/Abelbc85/status/1257558078813343745

 :lol
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on May 05, 2020, 12:31:50 PM
there’s ~60 pages in the cambridge companion to the roman economy and another ~30 in the cambridge economic history of rome dedicated to production. beyond some general and comparative surveys i could give you, idk much else wrt commodities
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 05, 2020, 09:54:19 PM
https://twitter.com/tragicbios/status/1257849569343406086

I can't believe this is real :lawd
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 05, 2020, 10:16:35 PM
I know he's just another idiot on the internet but Matt Stoller scares the shit out of me.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on May 05, 2020, 10:22:06 PM
Briahna Gray was on Twitter defending that discussion.

:spin
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on May 05, 2020, 10:38:52 PM
So is the takeaway that Progressives can compromise, or is that compromise is bad when it's the wrong people compromising?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on May 05, 2020, 10:41:42 PM
hell yeah I was worried nobody was going to step up and defend stoller
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on May 06, 2020, 12:40:27 AM
Quote
Not all Republicans are racist
You could call 90% of them racist and still satisfy the catch. Meanwhile Repubs have to eat the bigger pill, the only thing trickling down is you pissing yourself.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 06, 2020, 12:41:01 AM
So is the takeaway that Progressives can compromise, or is that compromise is bad when it's the wrong people compromising?
https://twitter.com/bigbossserdar/status/1257595848659173381
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on May 06, 2020, 12:42:16 AM
tfw I let down my guard and now my ass is a china vassal  :(
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 06, 2020, 02:14:08 AM
What about a Josh Hawley ticket with Matt Stoller, Briahna Joy Gray, Stephanie Kelton, and Matt Pompeo in the cabinet
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on May 06, 2020, 11:16:22 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/l8hoC12.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on May 06, 2020, 12:38:07 PM
Trostkyite  :obama
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on May 06, 2020, 12:42:35 PM
 :-\
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 06, 2020, 12:48:24 PM
The first thing the JDPON should do when it takes power is outlaw keurig cups.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on May 06, 2020, 12:54:39 PM
Is there a chart for tea drinkers? Or is that automatically like Juche or something.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on May 06, 2020, 01:01:25 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/WbFGTQq.jpg) :pimp
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on May 06, 2020, 01:54:12 PM
 :nope
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on May 07, 2020, 09:09:39 PM
re: ted cruz’ admiration for gordon wood from a couple days back, ive been going through Creation of the American Republic and the denouement is a rare moment of lucidity from someone who usually paints a really nauseating starry-eyed narrative of america

Quote
By using the most popular and democratic rhetoric available to explain and justify their aristocratic system, the Federalists [viz. the supporters for the ratification of the Constitution in the late 1780s, not the supporters of the Washington and Adams administrations of the 1790s] helped to foreclose the development of an American intellectual tradition in which differing ideas of politics would be intimately and genuinely related to differing social interests. In other words, the Federalists in 1787 hastened the destruction of whatever chance there was in America for the growth of an avowedly aristocratic conception of politics and thereby contributed to the creation of that encompassing liberal tradition which has mitigated and often obscured the real social antagonisms of American politics. By attempting to confront and distinguished mentally-challenged fellow the thrust of the Revolution with the rhetoric of the Revolution the Federalists fixed the terms for the future discussion of American politics. They thus brought the ideology of the Revolution to consummation and created a distinctly American political theory but only at the cost of eventually impoverishing later American political thought.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 07, 2020, 09:25:39 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EXdU2ypXkAARPfO?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on May 07, 2020, 09:30:28 PM
:neogaf
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 07, 2020, 10:32:59 PM
https://twitter.com/AnUntimelyMan/status/1258249849352355842

too real :dead
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on May 07, 2020, 10:56:15 PM
reminds me of the slatestarcodex utilitarian tradcath on reddit i check in on every time i need to put myself into an aneurysm coma
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on May 08, 2020, 12:29:07 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/VPRzAfo.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on May 08, 2020, 01:35:41 PM
https://twitter.com/SameeraKhan/status/1258789902902321155

 :pimp
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 08, 2020, 09:05:59 PM
Please post socialist/communist literature for someone that has read the Manifesto and Einstein's socialism essay. I guess Das Kapital?
short answer is Lenin's state and revolution.

Don't read Das Kapital unless you want to be an econ dork. Even if you like economics you're better off sticking with Keynesian authors and supplementing that with Marxist analyses of trade relationships, developmental economics, and so on.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on May 08, 2020, 09:10:43 PM
czech good vibes thread
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on May 08, 2020, 09:19:51 PM
Reading Marx's writings that aren't Kapital or Manifesto is a good intermediate step (18th Brumaire, German Ideology, Gotha program, etc.)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 08, 2020, 09:25:50 PM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81GpcDXuHyL.jpg)

I have a copy of this in my house :yeshrug

Now, that doesn't mean it's good, but
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on May 08, 2020, 09:26:35 PM
where's that kara post about the intro to commy canon...
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 08, 2020, 11:15:43 PM
Nickel and Dimed: On (Not) Getting by in America (https://www.amazon.com/Nickel-Dimed-Not-Getting-America/dp/0312626681) - Bore favorite Barbara Ehrenreich's undercover survey of low wage work in America. Quite a famous book
The Act of Killing (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-349HTKhPno) - Shocking documentary following an old man reminiscing on his role in the massacre of two million accused leftists in Indonesia
On the Clock: What Low-Wage Work Did to Me and How It Drives America Insane (https://www.amazon.com/Clock-Low-Wage-Drives-America-Insane/dp/0316509000) - 2019 version of Nickel and Dimed for our AI supervised Amazon hell
Legacy of Ashes: The History of the CIA (https://www.amazon.com/Legacy-Ashes-History-Tim-Weiner/dp/0307389006) - recommended by prolific GAF communist Chichikov and benji
Settlers: The Mythology of the White Proletariat (http://readsettlers.org/) - Kara told me to read this as a joke but I accidentally took it seriously and now I'm an extremist
Israel in the U.S. Empire (https://monthlyreview.org/2007/03/01/israel-in-the-u-s-empire/) - "short" essay from Monthly Review that I think everyone should read if they want to understand Israel's relationship with the United States
The Limits to Capital (https://www.amazon.com/Limits-Capital-David-Harvey/dp/1844670953) - This book by David Harvey is Marx remixed, reinterpreted, reapplied to contemporary (late 70s) conditions. Absolutely essential reading.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on May 09, 2020, 01:39:27 AM
Nickel and Dimed: On (Not) Getting by in America (https://www.amazon.com/Nickel-Dimed-Not-Getting-America/dp/0312626681) - Bore favorite Barbara Ehrenreich's undercover survey of low wage work in America. Quite a famous book
The Act of Killing (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-349HTKhPno) - Shocking documentary following an old man reminiscing on his role in the massacre of two million accused leftists in Indonesia
On the Clock: What Low-Wage Work Did to Me and How It Drives America Insane (https://www.amazon.com/Clock-Low-Wage-Drives-America-Insane/dp/0316509000) - 2019 version of Nickel and Dimed for our AI supervised Amazon hell
Legacy of Ashes: The History of the CIA (https://www.amazon.com/Legacy-Ashes-History-Tim-Weiner/dp/0307389006) - recommended by prolific GAF communist Chichikov and benji
Settlers: The Mythology of the White Proletariat (http://readsettlers.org/) - Kara told me to read this as a joke but I accidentally took it seriously and now I'm an extremist
Israel in the U.S. Empire (https://monthlyreview.org/2007/03/01/israel-in-the-u-s-empire/) - "short" essay from Monthly Review that I think everyone should read if they want to understand Israel's relationship with the United States
The Limits to Capital (https://www.amazon.com/Limits-Capital-David-Harvey/dp/1844670953) - This book by David Harvey is Marx remixed, reinterpreted, reapplied to contemporary (late 70s) conditions. Absolutely essential reading.

https://www.cia.gov/news-information/press-releases-statements/press-release-archive-2007/legacy-of-ashes.html

:rofl
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 09, 2020, 09:04:53 PM
As to the points about the slow growth of employment in wage-labor, part of the tendency of the rate of profit to fall wrt expanded reproduction is that variable capital expands slower than constant capital [...] So the growth of surplus population that becomes lumpen reserve armies of labor doesn't necessarily negate the idea that the industrial proletariat [...] is still the active struggling force against the contradictions of capital to create a new form of society.
I agree with you, and it seems you also agree with the nplusone piece, that the relationship people have with production will always be a central aspect of socialist struggle. But just to nitpick, let's not take the falling rate of profit for granted. I think it'll hold true in the long run but it's not technically true (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okishio's_theorem), but also it not being technically true is not technically true (http://gesd.free.fr/baragar.pdf) (p. 12), and also Sraffa himself thought that Marx's reasoning was essentially correct but that technical change tended to be neutral wrt to capital intensiveness, but there's also the recent explosion of the service industry, but one has to be careful about that because some of that is productive work and some of that is social consumption (throwback to the discussion with curly), and also...

What I'm trying to say is that it's complicated, and we should never limit ourselves by appealing to the walking dead (https://jacobinmag.com/2011/07/zombie-marx). So much has happened in the ensuing 150 years.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 10, 2020, 12:21:27 PM
https://twitter.com/profwolff/status/1259516547388841985

Big Dick Wolff puts out bangers like this every day but I just had to share this one :lol
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: toku on May 10, 2020, 01:58:22 PM
https://twitter.com/gavinmuellerphd/status/1259357388651577347
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on May 10, 2020, 02:16:09 PM
https://twitter.com/profwolff/status/1259516547388841985

Big Dick Wolff puts out bangers like this every day but I just had to share this one :lol

That skeptical of contact tracing?  :doge

Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 11, 2020, 03:32:33 PM
Since this doubles as the academic bafoonery thread... Jake, is Heidegger worth getting into?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on May 11, 2020, 04:30:45 PM
Heidegger
literally the only guy in the CanonTM that i legit dislike. you get enough of the mickey mouse reception of him through osmosis to not have to read him too intensively. unless you just really wanna get into continental phenomenology

read The Question Concerning Technology (the rest of the essays included here (https://monoskop.org/images/4/44/Heidegger_Martin_The_Question_Concerning_Technology_and_Other_Essays.pdf) look like they might be worth checking out, never read them myself) and the intro to Being and Time and see if you want to keep going

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Quote from: Heidegger, in 1935
...Europe lies in the pincers between Russia and America, which are metaphysically the same...
spoiler (click to show/hide)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxmzGT1w_kk
[close]
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on May 11, 2020, 06:46:08 PM
https://twitter.com/KarlMarxJunior/status/1259970850780053506

 :kermit
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on May 11, 2020, 07:25:55 PM
 ::)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on May 11, 2020, 07:45:36 PM
@karlmarxjunior :girlaff
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on May 11, 2020, 07:59:17 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/sxGjrok.jpg)

see kmarx trending for me but it's just dum comix
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on May 11, 2020, 08:39:06 PM
Parmenides: chre to legein te noein teon emmanai

how it’s usually translated: one should both say and think that being is

how Heidegger translates it: needful is the gathering setting-forth as well the apprehension: the essent in its being

how Heidegger translates it 60 pages later: it is needful to collect oneself, to concentrate on the being of the essent
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 11, 2020, 09:35:45 PM
:whatisthis
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Trent Dole on May 11, 2020, 09:50:14 PM
tweet bernie punished guy: dont read anything

che guevara: spends 900000000000 hours studying political economy (http://etheses.lse.ac.uk/2311/1/U615258.pdf)

:titus
(https://i.imgur.com/FCPs0GK.gif)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on May 12, 2020, 01:22:26 AM
Twitter accounts aren't Being first or the biggest to translate something isn't really a barometer for success, but they are a good way to fake it.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on May 12, 2020, 09:37:28 AM
The first thing the JDPON should do when it takes power is outlaw keurig cups.

Third way Nespresso wins again :klob
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on May 16, 2020, 01:01:29 AM
https://twitter.com/meilixzn/status/1261517197521739777

https://twitter.com/meilixzn/status/1261519321693515777

 :karen
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Rufus on May 16, 2020, 11:54:09 AM
Do Mass Effect: Andromeda next! :hyper
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on May 17, 2020, 01:06:10 AM
https://twitter.com/Viktor_Revmir/status/1261427499147255808

 :kermit
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on May 17, 2020, 07:32:43 PM
https://twitter.com/jtbrg/status/1262157868301717504

https://twitter.com/jtbrg/status/1262162129714655234

(https://i.imgur.com/MAq74qh.jpg)

 :lol
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Joe Molotov on May 17, 2020, 09:25:12 PM
mfw someone starts casually dropping marxist theory
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on May 18, 2020, 07:48:47 PM
Saw some tweets about a podcast feud and assumed it was more Brooklyn leftist drama but turns out it has to do with Barstool Sports.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on May 18, 2020, 08:53:25 PM
fuck yeah. have you guys listened to call her daddy? its one of the nicest grifts ive seen in a minute. cue a bunch of shitlib thinkpieces pontificating on how much it moves The DiscourseTM forward
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on May 18, 2020, 08:55:00 PM
Oh no you don't.

As soon as I found out what it was, I was filled with a sense of relief that I wouldn't need to look into it and form an opinion.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on May 18, 2020, 09:06:04 PM
no but this one’s actually almost interesting! i promise!
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 18, 2020, 09:08:58 PM
so I just read this (https://nypost.com/2020/05/18/barstool-sports-dave-portnoy-talks-call-her-daddy-podcast-drama/), what else am I missing in order to fully enjoy this?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on May 18, 2020, 09:45:53 PM
thats basically the long and the short of the beef that ive seen. the two hosts pushing back against a company full of cuntholes for their right to make hundreds of thousands of dollars for talking and the company full of cuntholes crying about this to the media because they think they have a right to make hundreds of thousands of dollars off other people talking. there’s also some b-plot where “an insider”(:neogaf) divulged that actually, the girls hate each other, and they’ll totally cave soon

im more a fan of the podcast itself and the grandstanding around it as some important feminist reclamation, rather than a simple inversion of sex-as-conflict misogyny that ends up affirming all the same awful shit.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 18, 2020, 09:52:20 PM
there’s also some b-plot where “an insider”(:neogaf) divulged that actually, the girls hate each other, and they’ll totally cave soon
according to that splainer, it's true, alexandra is already not speaking to sofia and she's trying to make amends with Portnoy :lol
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on May 18, 2020, 09:55:58 PM
like, it’s such a great indication that, yes, barstool is run exactly the way these same people ran their greek chapters ~15 years ago
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 19, 2020, 08:53:40 PM
http://www.empirelogistics.org/

:ohhh
fuckkkkk yes, I've been wanting something like this for a while: hard data backing up where the most effective supply chain strikes should be

I fully expect Indonesia to be an extremely vulnerable resource bottleneck
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on May 19, 2020, 09:44:01 PM
https://twitter.com/ethanbrown72/status/1262733756160446466
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on May 22, 2020, 02:00:51 AM
Quote
The Carthaginian constitution deviates from aristocracy and inclines to oligarchy, chiefly on a point where popular opinion is on their side. For men in general think that magistrates should be chosen not only for their merit, but for their wealth: a man, they say, who is poor cannot rule well- he has not the leisure. If, then, election of magistrates for their wealth be characteristic of oligarchy, and election for merit of aristocracy, there will be a third form under which the constitution of Carthage is comprehended; for the Carthaginians choose their magistrates, and particularly the highest of them- their kings and generals- with an eye both to merit and to wealth.

Quote
The distribution of offices according to merit is a special characteristic of aristocracy, for the principle of an aristocracy is virtue, as wealth is of an oligarchy, and freedom of a democracy. In all of them there of course exists the right of the majority, and whatever seems good to the majority of those who share in the government has authority. Now in most states the form called polity exists, for the fusion goes no further than the attempt to unite the freedom of the poor and the wealth of the rich, who commonly take the place of the noble. But as there are three grounds on which men claim an equal share in the government, freedom, wealth, and virtue (for the fourth or good birth is the result of the two last, being only ancient wealth and virtue), it is clear that the admixture of the two elements, that is to say, of the rich and poor, is to be called a polity or constitutional government; and the union of the three is to be called aristocracy or the government of the best, and more than any other form of government, except the true and ideal, has a right to this name.

i hinted earlier itt of an American evasion of democracy, to brutalize West. this story wrt the founding generation’s matriculation in english ‘mixed constitution’ thought and on again off again relationship with the actual term ‘democracy’ is well known by now. what Wood brings up is the other dimension, namely, the eclipse of the classical understanding of political power. above are two passages from aristotle’s politics. the ‘classical understanding’ is the analysis of institutions based on the bloc of the body politic from which it’s constituted. not representative of. power, for aristotle, isn’t delegated. it can’t be divested or held on reserve elsewhere, it’s either in a subject or it isn’t, and a subject either has institutions that empower them in the public sphere or they don’t. there’s a triad of paradigmatic blocs, distinguished by what proportion of the body politic they constitute: minimalist, minoritarian, and majoritarian. where it gets p interesting is when he outlines how each ‘form’ -monarchy, aristocracy, democracy- has its own organizing or bedrock principle, and this is something that basically the whole ‘classical understanding’ tradition shares down to the 18th century. merit, or virtue, just is what’s characteristic of aristocracy -literally rule of the best. it doesn’t matter, at least in the final analysis, what deliberative procedure you employ to detect merit or virtue. if a given institution is designed to invest with power those with merit or virtue, this is an aristocratic institution. this is what makes Congress effectively an aristocratic body. not simply because they’re a group of 535 people with significant sovereignty over a population of 330 million, though this fact’s non-trivial too. but because the electorate’s power to shape and deliberate over its legislation is forfeited to other people because of these people’s supposed superior deliberative ability. according to american federalist thought, the  people nominate one of their own to represent them (either transparently conducting the people’s interests or Burkeanly making the people’s choices for them). according to the classical understanding, the democratic element creates a makeshift aristocratic order to rule them.

im gonna paper over the executive and judiciary’s implications here because these are even worse offenders and i think my initial point’s been made. what brought me to carepost was 1) shosta cryposting about how much he hates it and 2) the thinkpiece eulogy-cum-diagnoses for the bernie campaign from both the anti-anti-anti-idpol left and the law and liberty east coast Straussians that keep sending me newsletters because i can never remember to ask to be taken off the mailing list (:rage). what seems common to both is that they claim the american left’s failure to gain electoral traction is due to its being both too exclusionary and too promiscuous. too exclusionary to entertain, let’s be real, reaction of various stripes and too promiscuous specifically with the language of New Left idpol. part of the jeremiad is that left thought was once coherent, and coherently marxist in particular. but the marriage of class struggle and diversity was (is) an unhappy one, and we see this playing out in practice now (one of the law and liberty types said that the treatment of the modern subject as protean, and the emphasis on self-creation/imagining/fashioning is an irreducibly bourgeois one and thus fundamentally incompatible with proletarian eschatology, which struck me as just inutterably stupid).

so, i think the implications of this reading of 2019-2020 are disgusting in what they say about bernie’s attempt to expand the public sphere/electorate and farcical in how much relevance they give to something like rose emoji twitter (fwiw, top-down intellectual reshaping of politics has always been the purview of the right, not the left). But they are illustrative of something important: not even the opposition can think of an extra-marxist radleft. even the liberty fund types are nostalgic for 20th century marxism :heh (i get that this is obv just rhetorical posturing). what i mean to point out here is, the avenue’s wide open and we have a toolkit to construct a moral language for left politics that isn’t explicitly poliecon. i think something like this reemphasis on democracy -what it means and how we’ve been failed by the people who’ve claimed it- can easily be wedded to certain persuasions; if you’re really in love with your histmat or your post-keynsianism or whatever this isn’t gonna kill you. but for the purposes of evangelization i think it’s important to have something in the arsenal that doesn’t require minnesota fed papers to explain (not that that’s unequivocally bad), and you even get to cite everyone’s favorite 4th century slaveowning gay-hating misogynist while you do it!
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on May 22, 2020, 02:17:55 AM
counterpoint: if Bernie said a bunch of slurs he would have the nomination and a 20 point lead in the polls
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 22, 2020, 03:13:03 PM
shosta cryposting about how much he hates it
I love careposts, dude. And yours are among the best here  :heartbeat
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 22, 2020, 05:33:53 PM
i think something like this reemphasis on democracy -what it means and how we’ve been failed by the people who’ve claimed it- can easily be wedded to certain persuasions; if you’re really in love with your histmat or your post-keynsianism or whatever this isn’t gonna kill you. but for the purposes of evangelization i think it’s important to have something in the arsenal that doesn’t require minnesota fed papers to explain (not that that’s unequivocally bad), and you even get to cite everyone’s favorite 4th century slaveowning gay-hating misogynist while you do it!
Isn't there already a coherent tradition of left thought with a semi-distinct lineage from marxism: progressive humanism? Anti-war, pro public goods, pro liberal freedom... this is a whole language and worldview that's already widely employed and has secured its permanent seat in American politics. In terms of evangelism for the purpose of getting votes, this is the right place to start, and is strictly broader than your radical democracy. Moreover, if you read Luxemburg or Lenin, the classical marxism you make fun of has already tapped into this language a long time ago. It also features prominently in the Democracy at Work crew like Richard Wolff and Bhaskar Sunkara.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on May 22, 2020, 08:16:08 PM
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/g5pbex/audio-no-evil-foods-a-faux-leftist-vegan-meat-company-busts-union-drive
Quote
Earlier this year, the company No Evil Foods, which sells a variety of socialist-themed vegan meats, fought a union drive at its Weaverville, North Carolina plant that included numerous “captive audience” meetings where management told workers to vote against a union.

Motherboard obtained a 23-minute video of No Evil Food’s CEO and co-founder Mike Woliansky repeatedly imploring workers to vote “no” in the union election, and telling workers that a union could hamper the company’s ability to “save lives” and “change the world.”

In his speech, Woliansky compared joining the United Food and Commercial Workers (UFCW) union, which represents tens of thousands of meatpacking workers in the US, to “hitching your wagon to a huge organization with high paid executives and a history of scandal and supporting slaughterhouses,” he said. “I don’t think that’s an organization you want to support with your dues money."

No Evil Foods brands itself with a socialist messaging and sells $8 packages of vegan products with leftist names like "Comrade Cluck" (a chicken substitute seasoned with garlic and onion), and "El Zapatista" (a mock chorizo)
Quote
In recent weeks, the company fired several workers who led the union drive at its manufacturing plant (known as “the Axis”), according to a report in the Appeal. Four employees told Motherboard that the company has fired five workers active in labor organizing since April.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on May 22, 2020, 08:37:03 PM
Isn't there already a coherent tradition of left thought with a semi-distinct lineage from marxism: progressive humanism? Anti-war, pro public goods, pro liberal freedom... this is a whole language and worldview that's already widely employed and has secured its permanent seat in American politics. In terms of evangelism for the purpose of getting votes, this is the right place to start, and is strictly broader than your radical democracy. Moreover, if you read Luxemburg or Lenin, the classical marxism you make fun of has already tapped into this language a long time ago. It also features prominently in the Democracy at Work crew like Richard Wolff and Bhaskar Sunkara.
yes, 100%. im definitely not reinventing the wheel here. the kind of radical democratic and egalitarian moral language im groping towards is definitely informed by, and should be complementary to, 20th century left progressivist moral language (or at least the parts that are worth keeping). but i don’t think the latter swallows the former, mostly because it centralizes a problem that usually gets viewed as ancillary by the broad progressivist tradition, namely, governance. like, politics as politics, rather than as ethics/moral sentiment writ broadly (liberal & left progressivism) or political economy (marxism; a lot of post-keynesian projects). if left progressivism tries to clarify the question “what conditions need to be met in order for a democratic society to be minimally just”, then i think this alternative language would help clarify “what conditions need to be met in order for our society to be maximally democratic”. and that’s where sortition, referenda, thinking about what democracy’s extension into civil society would mean (democracy at work is specifically something i had in mind), and whatever else come in. again, not claiming the novelty of this, it’s actually something i think is implicitly at work in left american politics over the past decade that im trying to tease out with the help of The Canon (pbuh).

and i think your roster there underscores my initial point. 3 of those 4 are explicitly working within marxism, the other at least sees himself as having some lineage ultimately leading to marx. i wanna deflate (not completely) the importance of poliecon for left politics. yes, for getting people into the door, but also to promote solidarity internally. maybe it’s my twitter brainrot setting in, but so many of the internal debates and bitching i see are relitigations of century-old bugbears, usually delimited by orthodox marxism. thankfully, it’s not really indicative of something DSA, or whoever, actually experiences when they engage in organizing or getting out the vote.

and jokes on you, i love luxembourg the radical democrat :bolo
spoiler (click to show/hide)
i think this project would vitiate a lot in Leninism, though. if left politics isn’t just about representing the powerless, but empowering them with tools of governance, then i think we have to take seriously the idea that the vanguard party is anti-democratic
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on May 22, 2020, 08:53:42 PM
and jokes on you, i love luxembourg the radical democrat :bolo
the joke’s still mostly on me though. i’ve been meaning to go through her for a while now but haven’t yet b/c the verso books are just too expensive :crybaby
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on May 22, 2020, 09:07:25 PM
I don't know if I can cosign entirely, what makes the Nu Left more promising to me is the renewed focus on political economy. "Radical democratic and egalitarian moral language"sounds like The Nation circa 2004, far from a golden era for radical possibilities. Not that there's no place for that kind of language in the present day (workplace democracy!) but it should be married to a deeper polecon analysis. One of the kernels of promise with Bernie-ism and Occupy Wall Street was that it brought a long dead tradition back into the spotlight and promised to make the subterranean currents of the present visible, compromised as it was by imperfect ideas like the 99 percent and imperfect evangelists like Jacobin. To summon the spirit of Kara, why go looking for a new guy when there's a perfectly good Marx right there?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 22, 2020, 09:10:16 PM
the joke’s still mostly on me though. i’ve been meaning to go through her for a while now but haven’t yet b/c the verso books are just too expensive :crybaby
imo the primary value of luxemburg is as a primary source of the buildup to WWI. And the main lesson to take away in general from the German experience or the Finns or the Chileans is that they will drag you out of your house and fucking kill you.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 22, 2020, 10:59:59 PM
Happy Harvey Milk Day, btw.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: toku on May 23, 2020, 02:45:58 PM
https://twitter.com/PatBlanchfield/status/1264227186728411137
https://twitter.com/PatBlanchfield/status/1264229212963196930
https://twitter.com/PatBlanchfield/status/1264231156926611457

spoiler (click to show/hide)
https://youtu.be/FOiPSlqV_p8
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on May 23, 2020, 04:20:33 PM
https://twitter.com/DoItForMaMa/status/1264285957999730689

 :stahp
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Madrun Badrun on May 23, 2020, 04:24:24 PM
https://twitter.com/KarlMarxJunior/status/1259970850780053506

 :kermit

Motorcycles also radicalized me.  Those loud manchildren need to die.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on May 23, 2020, 04:27:59 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8UKf65NOzM

communist propaganda  :thinking
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 28, 2020, 08:40:47 PM
Struggle session time. Hong Kong riots, Chilean riots, Minneapolis riots: why do I care about property damage so much? What piece of latent ideology am I still holding onto subconsciously? :thinking I am clearly on the wrong side :doge
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on May 28, 2020, 08:59:24 PM
I just want to take all this energy and put it into real change or at least sustainable pressure, not formless chaos that fizzles out after three days :stahp
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Madrun Badrun on May 28, 2020, 09:28:27 PM
Struggle session time. Hong Kong riots, Chilean riots, Minneapolis riots: why do I care about property damage so much? What piece of latent ideology am I still holding onto subconsciously? :thinking I am clearly on the wrong side :doge

You a secret cap simp. 
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: bluemax on May 29, 2020, 01:35:55 AM
https://twitter.com/PatBlanchfield/status/1264227186728411137
https://twitter.com/PatBlanchfield/status/1264229212963196930
https://twitter.com/PatBlanchfield/status/1264231156926611457

spoiler (click to show/hide)
https://youtu.be/FOiPSlqV_p8
[close]

I worked with a number of ex CoD devs at my last job. One of them, a map designer, would watch Liveleaks at work for fun. In all my time in the industry I had met very many people who were conservatives, or conservatives who claimed to be libertarians. And these were the guys who claimed to be tired of making Call of Duty games!
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on May 29, 2020, 06:05:21 PM
I just want to take all this energy and put it into real change or at least sustainable pressure, not formless chaos that fizzles out after three days :stahp

A few days ago we didn't even have formless chaos and you're already complaining? Communists these days.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: toku on May 29, 2020, 11:56:41 PM
https://twitter.com/meaganmday/status/1266549289494274049
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on May 30, 2020, 12:59:06 AM
turns out we do need a revolution  :bernie

biden was wrong  :biden
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: toku on May 30, 2020, 01:07:50 AM
full thing on yt:

https://youtu.be/cs3jdyfx_fo
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on May 30, 2020, 06:34:57 AM
I just want to take all this energy and put it into real change or at least sustainable pressure, not formless chaos that fizzles out after three days :stahp
not to go all thiel on you but have you read any rene girard?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on June 01, 2020, 09:16:01 PM
https://twitter.com/RajaKorman/status/1002606811571261441

:dead
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on June 01, 2020, 09:16:24 PM
not to go all thiel on you but have you read any rene girard?
never heard of him
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on June 02, 2020, 11:50:40 PM
https://twitter.com/cordeliers/status/1267766561399603200

https://twitter.com/RedKahina/status/1267836681098575874

I still love this particular interpretation and I'm impressed by the dedication :lol
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on June 03, 2020, 12:00:36 AM
can i get the crib sheet on that section of left twitter?  im a little mystified
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on June 03, 2020, 12:05:59 AM
Extremely online smug lefter-than-thou types with absolutely no significance otherwise; a curiosity at best. Red Kahina is some kind of elusive heiress. It's all very weird
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on June 03, 2020, 12:26:34 AM
That Club der Cordeliers guy has a major hate hard on for AOC for whatever reason. Also seems to think the tradtional Dem machine is a good thing.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on June 03, 2020, 12:47:23 AM
can i get the crib sheet on that section of left twitter?  im a little mystified
They've seen what's on the other side of The Source Wall.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on June 03, 2020, 12:52:21 AM
 :drool
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on June 03, 2020, 07:31:48 PM
https://twitter.com/AntonJaegermm/status/1268181146946473984

:heh
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on June 03, 2020, 08:51:42 PM
People are quick to let go of their rights in a crisis but coronavirus responses and the curfews don't share some genesis in a single plan to destroy democracy, your brain has to be extremely fried to believe that.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on June 03, 2020, 10:58:51 PM
sometimes I wish we all fought each other instead of getting along all the time. A really irrational feud is what's missing from my life. look at the Bernie campaign! I want what they have.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on June 04, 2020, 12:10:37 AM
https://twitter.com/cordeliers/status/1268255531371765761

This guy might be a dumb dumb.


THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH MIGHT GET YOUR HEALTH INFO.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on June 04, 2020, 03:09:51 AM
reading piketty rn and he claims marx, in discussing private capital concentration, doesn’t factor in productivity growth (esp. the kind caused by technological innovation) leading to rises in real wages. pretty sure thats wrong but idk where to look. you guys know?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on June 04, 2020, 03:25:09 AM
Can you quote? Is this from Capital in the 21st Century?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on June 04, 2020, 03:31:12 AM
yeah
Quote
My conclusions are less apocalyptic than those implied by Marx’s principle of infinite accumulation and perpetual divergence (since Marx’s theory implicitly relies on a strict assumption of zero productivity growth over the long run).
theres a fuller discussion earlier in the introduction (https://dowbor.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/14Thomas-Piketty.pdf) but thats pretty much the long and the short of it
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on June 04, 2020, 03:41:52 AM
idk about whether or how it's addressed in explaining capital accumulation, but Marx definitely wrote about improving modes of production (with such zeal you could make it sound like a Charlie Kirk TPUSA quote if you clipped out the right parts).
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on June 04, 2020, 03:55:48 AM
can i get the crib sheet on that section of left twitter?  im a little mystified

Schizophrenia is a hell of a mental illness
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on June 05, 2020, 02:07:15 AM
http://bnarchives.yorku.ca/640/4/20200600_bn_the_casp_approach_invited_then_rejected_interview_web.htm
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: toku on June 05, 2020, 04:10:39 PM
new cuck philosophy
https://youtu.be/F3Kb9U6qFBA
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Joe Molotov on June 05, 2020, 06:01:54 PM
nvm im wrong he didn't get off easy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Gottlieb_Fichte#Nationalism

:dead

Quote
Fichte tried to argue that "active citizenship, civic freedom and even property rights should be withheld from women, whose calling was to subject themselves utterly to the authority of their fathers and husbands."

Fillertche
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on June 07, 2020, 03:31:48 AM
not just sharing this article because it was written by someone called adolf jr, i promise https://harpers.org/archive/2014/03/nothing-left-2/

Quote
The atrophy of political imagination shows up in approaches to strategy as well. In the absence of goals that require long-term organizing — e.g., single-payer health care, universally free public higher education and public transportation, federal guarantees of housing and income security — the election cycle has come to exhaust the time horizon of political action. Objectives that cannot be met within one or two election cycles seem fanciful, as do any that do not comport with the Democratic agenda. Even those who consider themselves to the Democrats’ left are infected with electoralitis. Each election now becomes a moment of life-or-death urgency that precludes dissent or even reflection. For liberals, there is only one option in an election year, and that is to elect, at whatever cost, whichever Democrat is running. This modus operandi has tethered what remains of the left to a Democratic Party that has long since renounced its commitment to any sort of redistributive vision and imposes a willed amnesia on political debate. True, the last Democrat was really unsatisfying, but this one is better; true, the last Republican didn’t bring destruction on the universe, but this one certainly will. And, of course, each of the “pivotal” Supreme Court justices is four years older than he or she was the last time.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on June 07, 2020, 03:35:32 PM
https://twitter.com/icecube/status/1269277079914209282
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on June 07, 2020, 06:25:32 PM
https://twitter.com/cordeliers/status/1269587750010998784

if this isn't art I don't know what is :lawd
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on June 07, 2020, 06:38:39 PM
Yeah, I like the anti-cap sentiment being nestled in for that reason.
Don't want "unions bad" or something to be the takeaway.

Uber model policing where the immigrant guard is deported for failing to reach a 4 star rating.  :lawd
"Sorry, this area requires a premium iSecurity plan"
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on June 08, 2020, 10:11:38 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/nikhil_palsingh/status/1261993256507883521
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on June 08, 2020, 11:59:38 PM
since things seem to have died down a little bit, i wanted to set down some thoughts about two things ive gone through in quarantine, the first is Capital vol. 1. not a ton novel to say about it, just a couple tidbits that struck me. the first is from the preface where he lifts a large passage from a review of an early edition of Capital:
Quote
Marx only concerns himself with one thing : to show, by an exact scientific investigation, the necessity of successive determinate orders of social relations, and...
For this it is quite enough, if he proves, at the same time, both the necessity of the present order of things, and the necessity of another order into which the first must inevitably pass over ; and it is a matter of indifference whether men believe or do not believe it, whether they are conscious of it or not. Marx treats the social movement as a process ofnatural history, governed by laws not only independent of human will, consciousness and intelligence, but rather, on the contrary, determining that will, consciousness and intelligence...
which he moves on from, seemingly accepting the whole passage as a reasonable reading of his work. so it seems like all the hoopla over the Engelsian deterministic phil of history being a later accretion in the marxist tradition is a little overstated. it appears like there’s already a fair amount of diamat inside marx’s original histmat. relatedly, in the meat of the book as he’s introducing manufacture as it influenced modes of production:
Quote
We are concerned here only with broad and general characteristics, for epochs in the history of society are no more separated from each other by strict and abstract lines of demarca­tion than are geological epochs.
which adds an interesting wrinkle in his realism wrt periodization. epochs have to act as compartments of sorts which contain sets of, e.g., nomothetic laws that obtain given the conditions that constitute that epoch (and these conditions are themselves products of other nomothetic laws that obtained in earlier epochs). so far, pretty paint by the numbers histmat. but if the lines of demarcation aren’t strict, it gets trickier to identify when the conditions are sufficiently constituting an epoch distinct from all the others. it’s a much more attenuated realism than i think often gets attributed to him. and speaking of attenuation, what surprised me the most:
Quote
We presuppose labour in a form in which it is an exclusively human characteristic. A spider conducts operations which resemble those of the weaver, and a bee would put many a human architect to shame by the construction of its honeycomb cells. But what distinguishes the worst architect from the best of bees is that the architect builds the cell in his mind be­ fore he constructs it in wax. At the end of every labour process, a result emerges which had already been conceived by the worker at the beginning, hence already existed ideally. Man not only effects a change of form in the materials of nature ; he also realizes [ver­ wirklicht] his own purpose in those materials. And this is a purpose he is conscious of, it determines the mode of his activity with the rigidity of a law, and he must subordinate his will to it. This sub­ordination is no mere momentary act. Apart from the exertion of the working organs, a purposeful will is required for the entire duration of the work. This means close attention. The less he is attracted by the nature of the work and the way in which it has to be accomplished, and the less, therefore, he enjoys it as the free play of his own physical and mental powers, the closer his attention is forced to be.
in this account of intentionality, he couldn’t be more explicit that, at the micro level, mental activity is irreducibly involved in casual series that include physical activity. what’s more, he employs it here as the lynchpin argument for his anthropology -how the human is distinguished from other animal life- plugging it into his account of homo faber (itself obviously the cornerstone of his account of human flourishing). this is a much more qualified variety of materialism than you’d initially expect if your only exposure to the materialism-idealism debate was through the way that marxists talk about it. i think this opens up an interesting dialogue, if not rapprochement, with his sources; i’ve longtime been of a mind that hegel’s ontology, esp. wrt the social and the political, is usually only crudely understood and is much closer to a marbled ontology full of physical, mental, and mental but non-rational causes. if that’s true then the gap between the two is a lot closer than is usually taken to be the case in polemics
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on June 09, 2020, 01:45:07 AM
second book was piketty’s Capital in the Twenty-First Century

finished it today, and i feel really bummed that i hadn’t jumped on it sooner. ive been disillusioned from a lot of neoclassical economic work over the past ~3 years, largely because ive found practicing neoclassicals to have tendencies to be i) staunch chauvinists wrt other disciplines, meaning a lot of them dont give a fuck about the purported explanatory force of something that doesnt jive with, frankly, a fairly narrow construal of mathematical modeling of social behavior; ii) hyperuncritical or unaware of the instruments they load into their projects just to get them off the ground, both theoretical, like marginal utility and ratex, and the normative implications, if any, those theoretical instruments entail -this is esp. noticeable when they try to take the map and try to place it over the terrain. piketty’s book is in no small way intended to combat both, while delivering something of a coup de grace to the discipline’s history as a mill for, let’s be real, market and proprietarian apologia.*

there are really just 3 important takeaways that generate the book’s entire content. 1) the rate of return on capital will always outpace the rate of growth in any national economy and the only reason we didnt know this already was because huge exogenous shocks happened in the twentieth century that muck up the data (and also because compiling that data is super arduous and we currently cant even measure a lot of wealth because it’s being intentionally hidden). 2) the capital/income ratio β, or the savings rate over the growth rate, historically maps pretty cleanly onto how concentrated the wealth was in any given society. the growth rate wont shoot up again in the developed world in the next two centuries, and there are no institutions in place to prevent this inegalitarianism from growing to the point that β stops increasing because the top few centiles literally cant acquire wealth fast enough to replace the depreciation of their existing wealth. 3) the only ways to both combat public deficits and head off 2) from causing nations to go to war in the streets and falling into the ‘identitarian trap’ are inflation, which is too unreliable, austerity, which lmao, and the final option which is just fucking taxing inheritance and capital at modest progressive rates.

the book reads like an historical statistics compilation, not an econ book; he’s hidden all the econ literature he’s in dialogue with in an online appendix. stupid readable and actually probably right. tons of nice tidbits, like flaying pareto for being an asshole who naturalized inequality. even ends up vindicating marx a little bit wrt infinite accumulation. one bit where he’s describing how, when people were looking at the foreign assets data, a statistic that is by definition zero-sum, all of the developed countries literally had negative balances because all the fucking wealth is in tax havens who won’t divulge information on their accounts :neogaf. the literature he cited claimed that the lower-bound is 10% of GLOBAL GDP being unreachable :oreilly.

i picked up his new one and will report when im done

*what it doesnt do, and reasserts, is a third tendency endemic to the profession, a faith in the world’s radical intelligibility. which im not in principle completely opposed to, but i do really distaste how narrow the profession thinks the scope of what there is to know is and how straightforward manipulating the world is, which informs their seemingly indefatigable technocratic streak.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on June 09, 2020, 01:53:37 AM
Haven't read Piketty but I remember after that book came out people on the right very suddenly decided that land wasn't capital.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on June 09, 2020, 02:18:03 AM
a lot of them dont give a fuck about the purported explanatory force of something that doesnt jive with, frankly, a fairly narrow construal of mathematical modeling of social behavior
My favorite example of this that happened in the aftermath of that book is the Summers critique of Piketty that r > g implies something that conflicts with the econometric estimates of the elasticity of substitution between capital and labor... but those studies presuppose that the model is an accurate description of how the economy actually works! A model where there is one single gelatinous good called capital (measured in what, leets? as Joan Robinson would say). If the model doesn't agree with the stylized facts, and the stylized facts are pretty indisputable here, the model should just be thrown out. The critique is completely backwards. It wouldn't happen in any other discipline.

Btw if you want to read some interesting papers related to income distribution, there are quite a few in the second half of this article (http://bostonreview.net/class-inequality/marshall-steinbaum-why-are-economists-giving-piketty-cold-shoulder)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on June 09, 2020, 02:19:14 AM
Haven't read Piketty but I remember after that book came out people on the right very suddenly decided that land wasn't capital.
property is broader than capital because only the latter is productive and that makes the analysis vulnerable to asset price inflation or Tobin's q going up, which has happened because brrrr
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on June 09, 2020, 02:25:03 AM
and oh yeah, his more recent work (http://piketty.pse.ens.fr/files/Piketty2018.pdf) is deliberately broader in scope. the upshot is that demographic trends since the mid-twentieth century have caused the emerging political conflict to be an intra-elite one and that class-based coalitions are harder to consolidate than they used to be. in no small part because of those social services the old class based coalitions won. so there’s a business right who’s interested in rent-seeking and is willing to buddy up with reactionaries. but the opposition isn’t cleanly working class, or at least, theyre a working class that’s splayed all along the income distribution, some of whom being pretty fucking well off. but they dont have capital. if r really is >g and wealth continues to be concentrated, the center wont be able to hold and the credentialized, hyper-meritocrats are gonna eventually win a majority and redistribute the wealth they think capitalism is supposed to be securing for them. where that leaves the working poor is i guess largely up to how the coalition is built.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on June 09, 2020, 02:30:55 AM
hyper-meritocrats are gonna eventually win a majority and redistribute the wealth they think capitalism is supposed to be securing for them. where that leaves the working poor is i guess largely up to how the coalition is built.
Google becomes a worker co-op... The 50% ROP is redistributed to Da Workers and now every engineer makes $400k instead of $200k. That's justice baby

I haven't read that book yet but talk to any highly educated professional and they identify very strongly with, if not the ruling class, a meritocratic class that worked hard and earned its own wealth. Everyone else should go to college and live within their means. It doesn't matter that they're not property owners (and so many of them get signing bonuses in the form of options that they kind of are petty bourgeois already). These people are not coalition partners.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on June 15, 2020, 07:11:27 PM
https://twitter.com/neurosultan/status/1272231475719667712
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on June 15, 2020, 08:15:13 PM
https://twitter.com/AshBCoffin/status/1272682721060544512

boob n butt twitter>rose twitter
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: toku on June 17, 2020, 02:12:33 PM
https://youtu.be/BoN4cxJ1wOM

can't believe a pic from the spike lee movie

spoiler (click to show/hide)
lmao yes i can
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on June 29, 2020, 11:42:42 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/mikehesselmial/status/1165413113237319680

Probably already posted this but whatever
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on June 30, 2020, 06:46:20 PM
Where's a good place to start with reading WEB DuBois
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on June 30, 2020, 07:45:36 PM
Souls of Black Folk and Black Reconstruction. Darkwater and Dusk of Dawn are important too.

the sep has an article on him (https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/dubois)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on June 30, 2020, 07:54:04 PM
Study of the Negro Problems is a short essay and works well as a sort of introduction to Souls of Black Folk.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: toku on July 01, 2020, 03:39:23 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWP312aHKSQ

"We need to invent new forms of larger than state co-ordination"

yt algorithim is shit like this and then clips from 90s action movies  :lol

Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on July 01, 2020, 05:18:45 PM
https://twitter.com/SonerCagaptay/status/1278320424988934151
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on July 01, 2020, 07:22:42 PM
https://twitter.com/SonerCagaptay/status/1278320424988934151

Can't deny it.... I'm a huge fan of this meme template :lawd

https://twitter.com/thecontentfan/status/1278445466112442371

Somebody [not me] needs to do a Bore version of this meme.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on July 01, 2020, 09:45:48 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/puS3YKx.png)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on July 01, 2020, 10:05:06 PM
 :kermit
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Rufus on July 03, 2020, 01:53:51 PM
 :confused
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on July 03, 2020, 02:10:52 PM
Libertarian with yellow fever confuses his yellow fever with libertarianism. News at 11.

Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on July 03, 2020, 08:44:11 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/athenogenes/status/1279210179989512193

:nerds
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on July 04, 2020, 04:48:28 AM
i picked up his new one and will report when im done
finished it about two weeks back. after reflection i think id go so far as to say the two books jointly constitute what is probably the timeliest social science of the moment, whatever it’s boundaries are, that we’re living in. i mean that in nietzsche’s sense. im not aware of another intellectual product of the past ~10 years that captures and answers the anxieties of its present with more lucidity. and if one of it’s intuitions proves right -that we’re standing at a liminal moment in political history- i think later generations will look back on the two books, and Capital and Ideology in particular, as definitive pieces of scholarship, whatever their failings.

but what’s actually in it? for starters, all the old empirics from the first book, plus additional similar empirics from the postcolonial south and postcommunist east. the narrative skeleton’s largely the same, rising inequality in the 19th century, dips down in the mid 20th, shoots back up in the late 20th with no imminent signs of stopping by the end of the first fifth of the 21st. what’s different is the interpretive flesh that’s encasing it all: r > g is either scrapped or silent (i dont care to find out which is actually the case); piketty was pilloried for describing it as an inexorable law of capitalism in the first book when nothing in that book committed him to say it wasn’t simply a trend, and a rectifiable one, within certain private property regimes. and this is largely what he does in his new book. the development of inequality is explained here by i) trends and laws of political economy and ii) ideology, or, reflexive normative attitudes taken towards the distribution of goods/wealth that do work to either justify or challenge that distribution.

before your ears prick up at that causal division nota bene to the dear reader, he imagines the term ‘ideology’ value-neutrally and in some kind of robust autonomy from the economy. he means it less marxly and more de tracy...ly. ideology also splinters itself along multiple different axes: inequality, property, legal, identitarian; they’re alternately regnant or subordinate, coextensive/mutually supporting or contradictory at different periods in different places.

so much for the methodological groundwork. the main meat of the book’s in the grand historical narrative, again, somewhat carried over from Capital in the 21st Century but greatly expanded. for one, he posits that pre-modern (roughly meaning pre-industrial) societies, of whatever stripe, can be fit into a general class he calls ‘ternary’ or ‘trifunctional’. the model is ancien regime france: warrior-nobility that provides arms and material security, clerisy that produces literate culture and usually religious legitimacy, and the laboring multitude who produce everything else. how the three orders concatenate and jockey over privilege and how that all relates to the different ideological ‘regimes’ and distribution of goods in all the different cases is a lot of the fun of the book. but it doesnt last, because certain states start getting really good at centralizing administrative functions and accumulating wealth, they start affording higher tax bases which allows them to project more power which allows them to accumulate even more wealth, a lot of it having to go to enterprising members of the third estate who start corroding the ternary structure from the inside. over the long nineteenth century, the states of western and northern europe gradually dismantle the system of complementary orders, to an (ostensibly) open access meritocratic proprietarian regime, where inequalities are justified on individual prudence and natural endowment.

the first catastrophe of the 20th century is a direct result of the jockeying of these different imperial proprietarian powers. it’s horrors lead into many identitarian and two major types of egalitarian backlash in the interwar period, the former of which sparks another catastrophe less than a generation later. the two models of egalitarianism fail though. the soviet experiment pretty definitively and the social-democratic somewhat less spectacularly. piketty laments the demise of the latter, not least because it births a neo-proprietarian era (roughly, 1980-present) that’s seemingly falling into the same identitarian switch-point that it’s grandfather did. his prescriptions are aimed at transcending the social-democratic model by deepening it: worker co-management of firms; temporizing (socializing?) the ownership of capital; high progressive tax rates, esp. on capital and estate transfers; initial capital endowment in early adulthood and nods to other direct transfer schemes like ubi; and probably most dramatically, vast integration of fiscal and monetary systems. the last is mostly in his polemics contra the eu but the implication i think is global.

a lot of other tidbits but thats the gist. a lot of scholarship in the footnotes, including some verso shoutouts. my girl marion fourcade got a citation, as did katarina pistor, whose book all you guys should check out.

tis a good one, jake seal of approval
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on July 05, 2020, 02:50:37 AM
i'm not familiar at all with de tracy but i don't understand how one can look at ideology as value neutral? i know you just shared a pretty lengthy post but can you expand on this a little please?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on July 05, 2020, 03:45:11 AM
the particular instances (tokens) of ideology aren’t value-neutral. you’re right about that. the fact that an ideology is present is what gets treated value-neutrally by piketty.*

in common parlance, and in some lines of thought, the term often connotes some kind of delusionary function (and the implication is that ideology is to be avoided). what i mean to say is that isn’t how piketty uses the term; for him it’s just a descriptive term of art for his historical model.

*piketty would probably say that some ideology/ies -viz. some complex or constellation of justificatory and accusatory discursive patterns- has to obtain alongside each distributive regime
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on July 05, 2020, 04:14:33 AM
ok, that's clear. my follow-up then how does he argue it's autonomous from the economy? is he saying there's no relationship or feedback at all between the two?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on July 05, 2020, 03:52:01 PM
he doesn’t, really:

Quote from: Introduction, pg. 7-8
Inequality is neither economic nor technological; it is ideological and political. This is no doubt the most striking conclusion to emerge from the historical ap­ proach I take in this book. In other words, the market and competition, profits and wages, capital and debt, skilled and unskilled workers, natives and aliens, tax havens and competitiveness—none of these things exist as such. All are social and historical constructs, which depend entirely on the legal, fiscal, educational, and political systems that people choose to adopt and the concep­ tual definitions they choose to work with. These choices are shaped by each society’s conception of social justice and economic fairness and by the relative political and ideological power of contending groups and discourses. Impor­ tantly, this relative power is not exclusively material; it is also intellectual and ideological. In other words, ideas and ideologies count in history. They enable us to imagine new worlds and different types of society. Many paths are possible.

This approach runs counter to the common conservative argument that in­ equality has a basis in “nature.” It is hardly surprising that the elites of many societies, in all periods and climes, have sought to “naturalize” inequality. They argue that existing social disparities benefit not only the poor but also society as a whole and that any attempt to alter the existing order of things will cause great pain. History proves the opposite: inequality varies widely in time and space, in structure as well as magnitude. Changes have occurred rapidly in ways that contemporaries could not have imagined only a short while before they came about. Misfortune did sometimes follow. Broadly speaking, however, po­ litical processes, including revolutionary transformations, that led to a reduc­ tion of inequality proved to be immensely successful. From them came our most precious institutions—those that have made human progress a reality, including universal suffrage, free and compulsory public schools, universal health insur­ ance, and progressive taxation. In all likelihood the future will be no different. The inequalities and institutions that exist today are not the only ones possible, whatever conservatives may say to the contrary. Change is permanent and inevitable.

Nevertheless, the approach taken in this book—based on ideologies, insti­ tutions, and the possibility of alternative pathways—also differs from ap­ proaches sometimes characterized as “Marxist,” according to which the state of the economic forces and relations of production determines a society’s ide­ological “superstructure” in an almost mechanical fashion. In contrast, I insist that the realm of ideas, the political­ideological sphere, is truly autonomous. Given an economy and a set of productive forces in a certain state of develop­ ment (supposing one can attach a definite meaning to those words, which is by no means certain), a range of possible ideological, political, and inequality regimes always exists. For instance, the theory that holds that a transition from “feudalism” to “capitalism” occurred as a more or less mechanical response to the Industrial Revolution cannot explain the complexity and multiplicity of the political and ideological pathways we actually observe in different coun­ tries and regions. In particular, it fails to explain the differences that exist between and within colonizing and colonized regions. Above all, it fails to impart lessons useful for understanding subsequent stages of history. When we look closely at what followed, we find that alternatives always existed—and al­ ways will. At every level of development, economic, social, and political systems can be structured in many different ways; property relations can be organized differently; different fiscal and educational regimes are possible; problems of public and private debt can be handled differently; numerous ways to manage relations between human communities exist; and so on. There are always several ways of organizing a society and its constitutive power and property relations. More specifically, today, in the twenty­first century, property relations can be organized in many ways. Clearly stating the alternatives may be more useful in transcending capitalism than simply threatening to destroy it without explaining what comes next.
link (http://piketty.pse.ens.fr/files/ideology/Piketty2020HUPExtracts.pdf)

i think he just uses the word ‘autonomous’ to underscore the radical contingency he thinks obtains at every moment, especially each ‘switch-point’.

i dont think anyone would bother to defend the view that there’s absolutely no causal relationship between social relations and the normative attitudes about those relations. and piketty doesn’t
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on July 28, 2020, 06:30:31 AM
brave new world https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/modi-govt-wanted-to-ban-pubg-but-realised-youth-will-then-ask-for-jobs-congress-1705196-2020-07-28
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 28, 2020, 12:17:36 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/xlzexXy.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on July 28, 2020, 12:20:11 PM
THROWBACK

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ECnpqTVUYAEWZMR?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 28, 2020, 12:21:21 PM
Speaking of social fascism, can't think of a model of egalitarianism failing definitively quite like social-democracy did in World War I, but it sounds like Piketty is making a distinction without a difference there.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on July 28, 2020, 02:48:00 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/xC7nz77.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/5ZjGlxs.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on July 28, 2020, 03:10:10 PM
THROWBACK

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ECnpqTVUYAEWZMR?format=jpg&name=large)

I was gonna go "ackshually" but upon thinking about it I can't think of many, certainly not in the last 30 years in the West at least. 40 you have Socialists in France winning the Presidency and passing some massive measures even if the economic program was discontinued two years in.

The other major one is Schröder and I'm not very on point with this but I'm sure he's probably viewed closer to Blair than success (unemployment and pensions reforms IIRC...).
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on July 28, 2020, 03:15:20 PM
The other major one is Schröder and I'm not very on point with this but I'm sure he's probably viewed closer to Blair than success (unemployment and pensions reforms IIRC...).
pretty sure Schroder just lowered taxes and cut spending (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agenda_2010)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on July 28, 2020, 03:18:50 PM
The other major one is Schröder and I'm not very on point with this but I'm sure he's probably viewed closer to Blair than success (unemployment and pensions reforms IIRC...).
pretty sure Schroder just lowered taxes and cut spending (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agenda_2010)

I didn't explicitly wrote so but "unemployment and pension reforms" geared to "austerity", obviously.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Joe Molotov on July 28, 2020, 04:03:06 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/xC7nz77.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/5ZjGlxs.jpg)

Just me and the boys on a typical Friday night.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 28, 2020, 04:35:04 PM
40 you have Socialists in France winning the Presidency and passing some massive measures even if the economic program was discontinued two years in.

(https://i.imgur.com/B0bpL0W.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on July 28, 2020, 05:51:04 PM
Yeah that too :lol

But you know, pushing minimal monthly wage by 10% and social benefits higher than that, massive surge in credits for social/labor/culture, abolishing the death penalty, authorizing local private radios, amnesty on all "illegal immigrants" having a job, creating a tax on high wealth, nationalising a series a bank and major companies, lowering the age of retirement, shorter work weeks, a fifth week of mandatory paid leave guaranteed etc, etc...

Jospin was sort of decent but apart from the 35h work week I'm not sure there's tangible legacy there, apart from taking steps for gender equality. Otherwise it was already well on the slope of towing austerity, with less brutality.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on July 28, 2020, 05:56:02 PM
We can substitute Mauroy there instead of Mitterrand, for a purer socialist resume.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on July 28, 2020, 06:42:17 PM
I took a getfiscal quote and slapped it on top of a picture of the iraq war and you're getting all pedantic with it  :maf
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on July 28, 2020, 06:51:53 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/obmZqrf.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on July 28, 2020, 06:56:40 PM
misspelling leninist on purpose... I'd expect nothing less from the world's biggest coward
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on July 28, 2020, 06:58:17 PM
also made the white guy the ml
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 28, 2020, 07:05:00 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/obmZqrf.jpg)

See, this is what I was talking about when I said we needed to overcome our differences.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 28, 2020, 07:18:53 PM
1979 was the year Deng Xiaoping announced that a moderately prosperous society was the goal of the CPC. Has Mandark been a core economy Maoist this whole time? :thinking
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on July 28, 2020, 07:22:29 PM
also soviet intervention in afghanistan

thatcher gets elected (reagan one year after)

wes unseld and elvin hayes start to really fall off
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 28, 2020, 07:38:47 PM
Bummer, it looks like http://ijoined.dsausa.org/ is dead. Wanted to make a "Jimmy Carter joined DSA" card there and stick a Paul Volcker quote on it. :'(
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on July 28, 2020, 07:43:54 PM
man

ted kennedy should really, really not have done chappaquiddick
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 28, 2020, 08:08:16 PM
I did one of those "the future if" memes about Chappaquiddick just now but I felt too bad about it to post. I guess we all have our arbitrary bright-lines.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on July 28, 2020, 08:30:07 PM
Some scandals seem quaint when you go back and read the details. That is not one of them.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on July 28, 2020, 09:32:39 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/xC7nz77.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/5ZjGlxs.jpg)
I feel like stost would fit nicely into these pics (https://i.imgur.com/ZyF12NZ.png)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on July 28, 2020, 11:20:01 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/obmZqrf.jpg)

Hugo :tocry Another of Obama's victims
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on July 29, 2020, 03:05:01 PM
https://twitter.com/wellimover/status/1288270731395190791
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 29, 2020, 03:10:38 PM
https://twitter.com/BoKnowsNews/status/1288212348780544002

Leave our anarchist friends alone. :bolo
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on July 29, 2020, 04:54:56 PM
https://twitter.com/StateDept/status/1288569760800821249
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 29, 2020, 05:29:52 PM
https://twitter.com/lib_crusher/status/1288567750261121024

 :lol
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Joe Molotov on July 29, 2020, 09:13:26 PM
Party for Freedom, don’t mind if I do!
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 29, 2020, 09:52:27 PM
 :pimp

https://twitter.com/KawsachunNews/status/1288184667867353090

(For some context, the current government of Bolivia that did not come to power by winning an election has decided to postpone a long overdue election.)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on July 30, 2020, 04:28:55 AM
https://twitter.com/lib_crusher/status/1288574789150547968
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 30, 2020, 11:17:56 AM
 :science
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on July 30, 2020, 08:52:46 PM
https://twitter.com/Marxozoic/status/1288966418516639747
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on July 31, 2020, 01:17:31 AM
Quote from: jakefromstatefarm
an American evasion of democracy
Quote from: d’Holbach on Representatives
In a purely democratic state the nation, to be quite accurate, is not represented: the people reserve for themselves the right to make their will known in the general assemblies, which are composed of all the citizens. But as soon as the people have chosen magistrates who have been made depositories of its authority, then these magistrates become their representatives. And according to whether more or less power has been reserved by and for the people, the government either becomes an aristocracy or it remains a democracy.
(https://www.thecoli.com/media/jbhmmcac.12995/full?d=1493449201)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on July 31, 2020, 08:27:05 PM
The New York Times said WHAT?! /Clickhole

(https://i.imgur.com/QM34MJy.png)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on July 31, 2020, 09:11:59 PM
https://twitter.com/red_tanjirooooo/status/1289071683547037697


 :rogan
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on July 31, 2020, 10:34:05 PM
https://twitter.com/red_tanjirooooo/status/1289071683547037697


 :rogan

https://twitter.com/CallistoYote/status/1289212489725440002
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on August 01, 2020, 03:59:28 PM
Quote
will you beat me daddy if I pee on your desk?

 :(
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on August 01, 2020, 04:02:16 PM
 :shaq
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on August 01, 2020, 04:11:21 PM
Red Kahina is deranged even by the standard of internet personalities.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on August 01, 2020, 04:25:26 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/uoj2IIo.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on August 01, 2020, 04:34:01 PM
Red Kahina is deranged even by the standard of internet personalities.

(https://i.imgur.com/L7RhZmr.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on August 01, 2020, 04:41:17 PM
Une minorité à la 《retweet》 correcte n'est plus une minorité.  :blessup
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on August 01, 2020, 06:54:15 PM
Hetman Jan Sobieski it's happening dot gif

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1289231845842853890
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on August 01, 2020, 07:19:15 PM
Nic więcej nie będę pisać... :doge
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on August 01, 2020, 09:18:39 PM
somewhere timothy snyder just went into cardiac arrest
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on August 02, 2020, 01:19:42 PM
A debate where Mussolini tells Gramsci to read Bordiga. :dead

https://www.marxists.org/archive/gramsci/1925/05/speech.htm
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on August 02, 2020, 07:06:14 PM
Considered posting this in the rona thread but there are intersections in the story that our liberal friends don't like to think about (there is a god damn Cheeto in the White House after all) so I'm sticking it here instead.

https://www.propublica.org/article/similar-to-times-of-war-the-staggering-toll-of-covid-19-on-filipino-health-care-workers/amp

(Sorry if this is a repost. I'm using my brief sabbatical to catch up on 2020's reading queue.)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on August 02, 2020, 07:08:24 PM
stost has fallen  :-\
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Mandark on August 02, 2020, 07:18:20 PM
In DC and Maryland it's black and African American women, especially in home health care where they're 80-90% of the workers.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on August 02, 2020, 10:22:50 PM
Weird how it's falling along racial lines. Must be a coincidence. Time to fire up some Jacobin and / or Chapo to hear about how identity politics (the kind oriented around racial inequality, not the kind screeching about Star Wars) is bad.

This is a companion piece to my last link I guess. More superficial, but covers a wider spread of stories.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-08-02/one-day-in-the-life-of-covid-19-in-los-angeles
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on August 03, 2020, 01:13:18 AM
https://twitter.com/lib_crusher/status/1288574789150547968

They talked about this some more on the recent free Corner Späti. Apparently some of the party platforms used stretch as far back as 2011, which is 2+ political lifetimes ago. :lol

It's a bit damning that this data analysis fumbles so much with Portugal because it's a country that should exonerate their system. All the major parties there have names that straight up lie about their politics: Christian Democrats? Conservative nationalists. Social Democratic Party? Right wing. Socialist Party? Social-democratic. Communist Party? Brezhnevite revisionists. Left Bloc? Props up a minority Socialist Party government--they aren't blocking anything!

spoiler (click to show/hide)
The U.S. Democratic Party is a member of the Progressive Alliance along with Bolovia's MAS and Poland's SDL which you could describe as a special interest group for former state officials in Polska Ludowa that masquerades as a political party.

Maybe all those Republican accusations about being riddled with Marxists are true. :morans :noooo
[close]

e: My messed up brain. :stahp

(https://i.imgur.com/apUivfY.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 03, 2020, 05:36:12 PM
https://twitter.com/liz_franczak/status/1290390041064218625/

:dead
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on August 04, 2020, 12:48:15 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/9AjX9nv.jpg)

Can't imagine why #3 is here.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Rufus on August 04, 2020, 07:51:16 AM
Or civics. :hitler

---

"[x,y,z] are also important"
- "oh, so you're against [a,b,c]!?"

Is there a good word for this willfully obtuse nonsense?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on August 04, 2020, 09:09:02 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/9AjX9nv.jpg)

Can't imagine why #3 is here.

All that sounds pretty dope tho?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 05, 2020, 12:49:06 AM
https://twitter.com/dogisland69/status/1290711974163218433
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on August 05, 2020, 01:34:14 AM
Ike also helped decolonize the Middle East. :ussrcry

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Then he intervened in Lebanon. :goty
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on August 05, 2020, 10:55:17 AM
https://twitter.com/ev4ngeIion/status/1290801671182983169
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on August 05, 2020, 10:58:45 AM
https://twitter.com/ev4ngeIion/status/1290801671182983169

 :usacry
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BIONIC on August 05, 2020, 11:20:23 AM
https://twitter.com/ev4ngeIion/status/1290801671182983169

:juchesad
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 05, 2020, 05:17:21 PM
https://twitter.com/RajaKorman/status/1291098919229771776
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Joe Molotov on August 05, 2020, 05:41:53 PM
https://twitter.com/ev4ngeIion/status/1290801671182983169

:juchesad

1/3rd of 100% is 33.333% (repeating, of course), so they should have gotten an F. I hope this wasn't a math class.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on August 05, 2020, 06:15:44 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjI8jwn0Upo


 :tocry
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 06, 2020, 03:57:52 AM
https://twitter.com/NathanJRobinson/status/1291211363755360260

:maduro

https://twitter.com/MattBruenig/status/1291205398586851328

:delicious
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: EchoRin on August 06, 2020, 04:26:12 AM
I liked Boy Meets World (ya I know that was the Girl Meets World edition), but it always had some little things like this. Remember the cult episode? And when Shaun is confronted by Corey's dad, the dad says something like "You don't believe in anything? Not even God?".

Then the cool teacher wipes out on his motorcycle and Shawn is alone in the hospital room while he lays in a coma. Of course Shawn then goes and asks God for the teacher's good health. Now I like that episode anyways, but even as a youngster who wasn't religious and didn't know jack about media communication I was still very  :doge about that.

Whatever, I don't have much love for communism with my background ("your country of origin was not real communism!!!  :smug", I know jack off), but ehhhh, I could have done without an episode tackling the subject matter in such a blatantly stupid American cold war hot take way. 

https://youtu.be/ymlqxjTA3Uo
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BIONIC on August 06, 2020, 05:24:08 AM
https://twitter.com/mechanicalastra/status/1291111580747194368

He lives  :rejoice
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: remy on August 06, 2020, 07:04:15 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/9AjX9nv.jpg)

Can't imagine why #3 is here.

All that sounds pretty dope tho?
for real, whenever i see this right wing hitpiece type shid i'm always like damn that sounds sick as hell
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on August 06, 2020, 11:44:45 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/9AjX9nv.jpg)

Can't imagine why #3 is here.

All that sounds pretty dope tho?
for real, whenever i see this right wing hitpiece type shid i'm always like damn that sounds sick as hell

I got it from the accidentally left-wing account on Twitter. :lol
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Joe Molotov on August 06, 2020, 11:46:14 AM
None of y'all praising Communism ever heard of Voldemort and it shows.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on August 06, 2020, 01:13:59 PM


Whatever, I don't have much love for communism with my background ("your country of origin was not real communism!!!  :smug", I know jack off), but ehhhh, I could have done without an episode tackling the subject matter in such a blatantly stupid American cold war hot take way. 


be careful, when bismarkie tried to pull that on shosta, kara materialized out of the warp to shank him. what I'm tryna say is watch out for slav-on-slav violence
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on August 06, 2020, 01:23:53 PM
This is LF Bore, where we keep things chill. Anything goes, you might say.

This event seems to have been an indelible one for you, however.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on August 06, 2020, 01:55:10 PM
None of y'all praising Communism ever heard of Voldemort and it shows.

Voldemort was a true progressive, Harry was a status-quo neoliberal. :juche
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on August 06, 2020, 07:26:12 PM
https://harpers.org/archive/2020/02/trumpism-after-trump/

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Quote
“Are you a communist or something?” he asked, in a friendly, sparring way. “I mean, it’s okay if you are; I’m so far right that I’m in Maoist territory.”

The PRC is wild, man. They have right wing Maoists, but not because socialism has achieved victory and the struggle is between better and ultra-leftism.
[close]

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Quote
The pair worked as assistants to Niall Ferguson, the conservative historian who had gotten himself into trouble at Stanford’s Hoover Institution for encouraging “oppo research” on a liberal student. “Oh man, it was bullshit. They only got Ferguson because Susan Rice’s son accidentally forwarded a whole email chain to some unreliable student.”

“Wait, you mean Susan Rice—”

“Totally conservative, her son, yeah,” said Undergrad One.

  :maduro
[close]

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Quote
Tucker riled his audience a bit when he exposed his knowledge of the American left. He found bits to admire in Warren’s “economic patriotism,” and as long as the left kept quiet about the minorities and the migrants, some of them were promising candidates for a left-right nationalist pact. For this was Tucker’s great insight: the social-democratic left was essentially right about economics. It would be good to nationalize social media; it would be good to boost American wages.

(https://i.imgur.com/pcZVhgz.png)
[close]

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Quote
I took my seat early at the dinner for Hawley. A recent convert to Mormonism was bad-mouthing the Supreme Court justices: Trump had to do better. “You really don’t like Kavanaugh?” I asked her. “No, I mean Gorsuch. Have you read his decisions on Indians? He wants to give it all back to the Indians. Insidious rulings.”

 :kermit
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on August 06, 2020, 11:08:31 PM
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2020/08/venezuela-hugo-chavez-afl-cio-united-states

 :maduro
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on August 07, 2020, 01:43:57 PM
I suppose the operative question is will it amount to anything? Our liberal friends love a good feel-bad story when they don't have to do anything to rectify it, and the opposition to regime change proffered by national conservatives and / or paleoconservatives (do we even have to pretend these guys exist anymore?) stretches the human capacity for credulity beyond its recorded limits.

There's also the whole thing where Indonesia served as a blueprint for "less bad" Cold Warrior events ("Jakarta is coming" was both a threat and a promise), don't think anyone is willing to discard fruit from the poison tree there.

The author himself said that he didn't think he would have been able to write the book during the Obama presidency (ironically given his childhood). Hard not to chalk this up to Bhaskar's observation that, "what's good for The Nation isn't what's good for the nation."

Speaking of, this should be interesting.

https://twitter.com/jacobinmag/status/1291750949971730434
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Crash Dummy on August 09, 2020, 02:27:34 AM
The Jakarta Method, so hot right now. Can't believe how much play this book is getting from liberals
yeah, been seeing this book referred to a lot and the claim that pretty much everything is a cia psyop on twitter
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on August 09, 2020, 05:39:12 AM
The author of the Jakarta Method was on TrueAnon (The paywalled feed, but it's not exactly hard to find it for free...) for a three-parts episode about a Nazi-pedophile-Junta black site settlement in Chile and the last episode was a larger discussion around his book. He was also a guest on their episode about Brazil and Bolsonaro.

The Jakarta Method, so hot right now. Can't believe how much play this book is getting from liberals
yeah, been seeing this book referred to a lot and the claim that pretty much everything is a cia psyop on twitter

Honestly he came across as rather level headed and open about what was speculative in his talk.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: paprikastaude on August 09, 2020, 12:27:13 PM
None of y'all praising Communism ever heard of Voldemort and it shows.

Voldemort was a true progressive, Harry was a status-quo neoliberal. :juche

Voldemort actually came from Gryffindore  :bedroomeyes
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on August 09, 2020, 02:37:48 PM
Another old article that could be posted in another thread but is going here because it deals with icky intersecting topics that I apologize in advance for if it was already already posted.

https://theintercept.com/2020/02/09/puerto-rico-energy-electricity-solar-natural-gas/
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on August 09, 2020, 02:43:23 PM
 :aah :aah :aah

(https://i.imgur.com/6xaitnZ.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 09, 2020, 02:44:38 PM
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/5L2okTiupVRxC/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 09, 2020, 03:04:01 PM
https://twitter.com/getfiscal/status/1292527042685292550

without a doubt the best troll on the internet
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on August 09, 2020, 03:26:29 PM
 :lol

https://twitter.com/leetxt/status/1292231732628983809

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Reminds me of a cursed tweet I saw the other day that said something to the effect of, "The Republican Party has been doing MMT for 30 years." :goty
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on August 09, 2020, 06:09:58 PM
The millionaires and the billionaires are not the only ones who should have access to subsidized, unrefined Russian oil. Thank you.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 10, 2020, 03:05:10 PM
https://twitter.com/means_tv/status/1292857716126474241

:titus

https://twitter.com/means_tv/status/1292860215847788544

:leon
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Rufus on August 10, 2020, 03:14:04 PM
Part of being a socialst? Even the buddha would be more heated.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 10, 2020, 03:16:08 PM
It takes a lot of guts and love to be shot at multiple times and insist that the carceral archipelago is not a solution. That's unrivaled character.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Rufus on August 10, 2020, 03:19:40 PM
Let's just hope it doesn't get them killed some other time.

Glad to see their pets are OK too. :uguu
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on August 10, 2020, 03:44:29 PM
It takes a lot of guts and love to be shot at multiple times and insist that the carceral archipelago is not a solution. That's unrivaled character.

"[W]hile there is a soul in prison, I am not free."
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on August 11, 2020, 10:56:50 PM
Another old article.

https://www.politico.com/amp/news/magazine/2020/02/09/nevada-lithium-mine-environmental-investigation-bureau-land-management-100595

As always, the rule of law is very important!
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 11, 2020, 11:05:45 PM
Will read. Related, Trump has overseen the largest reduction in protected public lands in American history over the course of his term. I genuinely don't understand why it's possible or legal for him to just sign an executive order and give away so much land.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on August 11, 2020, 11:22:11 PM
I genuinely don't understand why it's possible or legal for him to just sign an executive order and give away so much land.
Because that's how most of the land was protected in the first place.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 11, 2020, 11:22:42 PM
It wasn't an act of law?
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on August 11, 2020, 11:26:17 PM
Well, yeah, back in 1906: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiquities_Act
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 11, 2020, 11:28:39 PM
:leon I thought congress declared federal lands individually, my bad

this is why you're professor and I'm the student
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on August 11, 2020, 11:34:27 PM
:leon I thought congress declared federal lands individually, my bad

this is why you're marxist and I'm the student
;)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on August 13, 2020, 03:37:26 PM
Xavier: Renegade Angel is back. :rejoice
almost pissed myself laughing at this :lol

Workshopping a way of making the squatters' rights episode about Euro Amerikans. :maduro
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 13, 2020, 03:48:38 PM
Just close your eyes, listen to the lines, and it already is :lol

https://youtu.be/g_Rh3PbnAdw

"one day, we'll squat the globe..." :hans1
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on August 14, 2020, 11:21:28 AM
https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/betsy-devos-title-ix-mens-rights/tnamp/
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: shosta on August 14, 2020, 02:11:34 PM
Siri... show me the wrong take on the Alex Morse scandal

https://twitter.com/jacobinmag/status/1293950805083652099
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on August 14, 2020, 02:38:21 PM
I'm glad that story is getting covered, but the voices amplifying it in unison come off as having some other intention. Don't know what it is and tbh I don't really care.

See also: the near daily amplification of a nobody on Twitter who has a different take on sexual mores.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Kara on August 14, 2020, 09:30:24 PM
Moved this here so that we'd spare the wank dad thread this misery.

I like your creative way of interpreting expropriation, we need that kind of ingenuity in the socialist movement. :like
I'm being cheeky but only to point out why "germany didn't raise taxes" can't explain chartalism's failure in the german empire. It did tax the public, just not legally.

I would say that you're making a taxation is theft argument instead of being cheeky.

Quote
It is disingenuous to pretend like the economic consequences are primarily the result of the financing decisions of the government. To the extent that Germany expected to plunder its borders, there was a shortfall. But inflation was stabilized to 2% by the end of the war and it didn't become a problem again until the French decided to fuck Germany to death.

Love the bold, very econ textbook.

Anyway, that link you posted states that the German Empire was different from its competitors in that it had poor money markets and you yourself took the position that its poverty in foreign money markets was to blame in particular. I believe money markets arise with the commoditization of money, a characteristic of money that chartalism rejects. (If either of those base premises are wrong please feel free to correct me.)

If I'm right with both of those premises this feels like the time my 7th grade English teacher gave us a Christmas brain teaser that consisted of the alphabet without the letter L and my friend at the time kept shouting, "There's no L!" There's no L!" without realizing he was saying Noël.

That is of course unless the absence of mature money markets in the German Empire can be explained by something other than an institutional skepticism of money as a commodity. The Empire and the Third Republic roughly correspond in existence, but the Third Republic was far more bourgeois driven whereas the Empire had its lovely nobility to mediate.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: curly on August 16, 2020, 01:04:39 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/EBBerger/status/1294652835930439680
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on August 17, 2020, 10:34:35 AM
Quote
Adolph Reed is a son of the segregated South, a native of New Orleans who organized poor Black people and antiwar soldiers in the late 1960s and became a leading Socialist scholar at a trio of top universities.

Along the way, he acquired the conviction, controversial today, that the left is too focused on race and not enough on class. Lasting victories were achieved, he believed, when working class and poor people of all races fought shoulder to shoulder for their rights.

In late May, Professor Reed, now 73 and a professor emeritus at the University of Pennsylvania, was invited to speak to the Democratic Socialists of America’s New York City chapter. The match seemed a natural. Possessed of a barbed wit, the man who campaigned for Senator Bernie Sanders and skewered President Barack Obama as a man of “vacuous to repressive neoliberal politics” would address the D.S.A.’s largest chapter, the crucible that gave rise to Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and a new generation of leftist activism.

Quote
His chosen topic was unsparing: He planned to argue that the left’s intense focus on the disproportionate impact of the coronavirus on Black people undermined multiracial organizing, which he sees as key to health and economic justice.

Notices went up. Anger built. How could we invite a man to speak, members asked, who downplays racism in a time of plague and protest? To let him talk, the organization’s Afrosocialists and Socialists of Color Caucus stated, was “reactionary, class reductionist and at best, tone deaf.”

“We cannot be afraid to discuss race and racism because it could get mishandled by racists,” the caucus stated. “That’s cowardly and cedes power to the racial capitalists.”

Amid murmurs that opponents might crash his Zoom talk, Professor Reed and D.S.A. leaders agreed to cancel it, a striking moment as perhaps the nation’s most powerful Socialist organization rejected a Black Marxist professor’s talk because of his views on race.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/14/us/adolph-reed-controversy.html
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Tripon on August 23, 2020, 12:36:36 PM
https://twitter.com/KareemRifai/status/1274000317034659841

 :juche :juchesad

Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Madrun Badrun on August 23, 2020, 01:51:26 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/6Umxfed.png)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on August 23, 2020, 02:56:50 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/6Umxfed.png)

:juche
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on August 25, 2020, 07:28:29 PM
https://www.filmsforaction.org/news/revolution-and-american-indians-marxism-is-as-alien-to-my-culture-as-capitalism/


Quote
The only possible opening for a statement of this kind is that I detest writing. The process itself epitomizes the European concept of "legitimate" thinking; what is written has an importance that is denied the spoken. My culture, the Lakota culture, has an oral tradition, so I ordinarily reject writing. It is one of the white world's ways of destroying the cultures of non-European peoples, the imposing of an abstraction over the spoken relationship of a people.

 :pimp

reading white theory  :paul :lol
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on September 10, 2020, 05:45:13 PM
holy shit david graeber died last week
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on October 16, 2020, 03:16:20 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9rvRsWKDx0

love her

"any time you engage with people who are on the front lines of any type of being targeted or suffering. the extent that you align yourself and then you're open to learn from them, it means that you expose yourself even if you're not legally vulnerable to endure the conditions that they're enduring. like between emotional connectors in terms of learning from each other, in terms of shared intelligence. that there is a bonding that goes on and you carry that with you." ;)

Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on October 16, 2020, 11:15:48 PM
holy shit david graeber died last week
He lives on in previously unreleased interview footage!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9afwZON8dU
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on October 18, 2020, 01:21:50 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9rvRsWKDx0

love her

"any time you engage with people who are on the front lines of any type of being targeted or suffering. the extent that you align yourself and then you're open to learn from them, it means that you expose yourself even if you're not legally vulnerable to endure the conditions that they're enduring. like between emotional connectors in terms of learning from each other, in terms of shared intelligence. that there is a bonding that goes on and you carry that with you." ;)

1:43:10

“We keep our communities functioning because we love them. We will not abandon them even when they turn on us, because we love them, and the state uses that labor to stabilize itself”

“We keep our communities from going crazy, like they kept us from going crazy. and that labor is expropriated by the state.”

“Do you see the beauty in that? It’s an impossible task, but it’s one completely worthy of you.”
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on October 28, 2020, 02:48:55 PM
hehehe

https://twitter.com/MattLech/status/1320743074297974784
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on October 28, 2020, 04:10:43 PM
https://twitter.com/SingSolidarity/status/1320751773418688513

 :dead
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on November 22, 2020, 07:48:14 PM
https://toynbeeprize.org/posts/katrina-forrester/

Quote
Rawls didn’t emerge out of nowhere, and despite the story that’s often taught by political philosophers, he didn’t revive political philosophy from its postwar slumbers. His political thought was part of a liberal response to changes in the twentieth-century administrative state—as Anne Kornhauser suggests, he’s one part of a longer legal tradition of critical liberalism—and also as a particular American response to the changes in global politics after World War Two. 

To take a couple of examples: on the one hand, Rawls developed a vision of society that flattens certain types of conflict and prioritizes certain forms of consensus quite common among postwar “liberal consensus” theorists. On the other, Rawls also borrowed ideas from liberal critics of the administrative state—for instance, Frank Knight, one of the early neo-liberal economists at Chicago. These connections to mid-century liberalism were often submerged in Rawls’s published philosophical writings, so his unpublished materials collected by archivists at Harvard University are crucial to making sense of them. But it’s clear when reading those materials that Rawls’s account of society and the state emerged from a particular ideological constellation in the postwar US, when many liberals were skeptical about the extension of the state and were looking for novel ways to both legitimize and critique it. 
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on November 28, 2020, 01:01:57 PM
https://jhiblog.org/2020/11/25/marx-and-the-birth-of-modern-society/
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on December 03, 2020, 11:16:16 PM
Quote from: Republic, 557a
...and presumably, it [the political regime] turns into a democracy when the poor are victorious, when they kill some of their opponents and send others into exile, give an equal share in the constitution and public office to those who remain, and when public office in the city is allocated for the most part by lot.
:money
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on December 30, 2020, 07:08:06 PM
https://twitter.com/Progrockfarmer/status/1344411277343551489
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on December 30, 2020, 11:31:08 PM
https://twitter.com/calebmaupin/status/1344166951401254912
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on February 25, 2021, 09:03:25 PM
https://twitter.com/prolepeach/status/1364984742488248321
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Trent Dole on February 26, 2021, 09:51:02 AM
https://twitter.com/ethanbrown72/status/1262733756160446466
Hey man, they're not called No Evil Business Practices. :doge
ha that's from March, I uh don't visit this thread often. :yeshrug
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on April 05, 2021, 07:11:26 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ex_zzEnWEAEzZsK?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ex_zzkMXIAIa7vg?format=jpg&name=small)

spoiler (click to show/hide)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ex_1zT0WEAcRkeJ?format=jpg&name=small)
[close]
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Great Rumbler on April 05, 2021, 07:17:58 PM
stop doxing benji!

oh wait
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on April 29, 2021, 06:17:06 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/O5gZxQd.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on April 29, 2021, 07:04:55 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ex_zzEnWEAEzZsK?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ex_zzkMXIAIa7vg?format=jpg&name=small)

spoiler (click to show/hide)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ex_1zT0WEAcRkeJ?format=jpg&name=small)
[close]

I don't mind Jamie but she's kind of weak in those sort of arguments even being fair that it's kind of hard to really articulate a stateless society.

I don't believe in it, personally.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: OnlyRegret on April 29, 2021, 06:32:44 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ex_zzEnWEAEzZsK?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ex_zzkMXIAIa7vg?format=jpg&name=small)

spoiler (click to show/hide)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ex_1zT0WEAcRkeJ?format=jpg&name=small)
[close]

if we can just shove the protestant work ethic into communism, we've solved it
just need to write the protestant manifesto for an ambitious crossover like the MCU
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Skullfuckers Anonymous on May 04, 2021, 06:11:52 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/JasonSCampbell/status/1389649952276635649
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: VomKriege on May 07, 2021, 06:48:20 AM
https://twitter.com/jamie_elizabeth/status/1390086122596937728
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Joe Molotov on May 07, 2021, 10:41:56 AM
Is this praxis?

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/deus-ex-mankind-divided-praxis-kit-pack/c4sx5gwcc46r
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Skullfuckers Anonymous on May 12, 2021, 05:58:46 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/TrueAnonPod/status/1392570629895774210
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on May 13, 2021, 06:07:53 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/MnmTA0V.jpg)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on February 24, 2022, 03:43:41 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMClbOaXEAYxbye?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on February 24, 2022, 04:04:20 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMKBEWeXEAc04p7?format=jpg&name=small)(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMKBEgrWUAA3O29?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: BisMarckie on February 24, 2022, 05:15:48 AM
FACT CHECK: We don't even need professors anymore after the revolution.

"More correctly, the shell in which the cultural construction and self-education of Communist man will be enclosed, will develop all the vital elements of contemporary art to the highest point. Man will become immeasurably stronger, wiser and subtler; his body will become more harmonized, his movements more rhythmic, his voice more musical. The forms of life will become dynamically dramatic. The average human type will rise to the heights of an Aristotle, a Goethe, or a Marx. And above this ridge new peaks will rise."


Note: Probably should rewrite this in a gender neutral way, do better Trotsky.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on February 27, 2022, 01:44:43 AM
https://twitter.com/nils_gilman/status/1497629999389499394
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on March 15, 2022, 04:44:35 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FN4r3RxakAAYdUT?format=jpg&name=small)(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FN4r3RuakAcJQG4?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on March 17, 2022, 04:03:25 PM
https://twitter.com/BadLibertarians/status/1504481010343309315
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on March 19, 2022, 04:15:38 AM
https://twitter.com/jdcmedlock/status/1504555263105253381
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on March 19, 2022, 11:50:15 PM
https://twitter.com/ememess/status/1505278165026938880
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on March 31, 2022, 10:37:12 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FPK_lXiaMAMJ7at?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on March 31, 2022, 12:21:14 PM
.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on March 31, 2022, 06:27:22 PM
.
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on April 07, 2022, 05:13:53 PM
https://twitter.com/doulbedoink/status/1511787427475562498
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on May 29, 2022, 07:27:11 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FT6oY9xaMAAh_Lr?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: chronovore on May 30, 2022, 12:45:21 AM
DO people really think EDUCATION can exist in a socialized system? How about Health Care? Who is going to run schools and hospitals when the money is redistributed based on citizenship or residency?!
:picard
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on June 02, 2022, 02:04:36 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FUJBgwEUAAA1KCW?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on June 18, 2022, 12:23:44 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVdOrZEXsAA-suR?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on June 30, 2022, 06:02:54 PM
https://twitter.com/GaryWinslett/status/1542212410450255872
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on November 07, 2022, 09:06:28 PM
https://twitter.com/nauseousidiot/status/1589648151832858625
https://twitter.com/nauseousidiot/status/1589666074538446849
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on December 14, 2022, 10:25:57 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fj_H2wPakAI_pnd?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on December 16, 2022, 02:27:02 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fj_H2wPakAI_pnd?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fj_XU4DaEAAexaY?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: Skullfuckers Anonymous on May 05, 2023, 12:58:15 PM
https://twitter.com/JenJJams/status/1653807063162843136

 :nothing
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: team filler on May 05, 2023, 11:07:08 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/o3tMpyD.png)
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on May 09, 2023, 11:46:01 PM
https://twitter.com/DelusionPosting/status/1655973432192913408
Title: Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
Post by: benjipwns on May 21, 2023, 12:46:26 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RV8sfQvxiVw

 :hmm