THE BORE

General => Video Game Bored => Topic started by: Great Rumbler on March 07, 2019, 09:36:52 AM

Title: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Great Rumbler on March 07, 2019, 09:36:52 AM
https://www.gog.com/game/diablo

:gladbron
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Joe Molotov on March 07, 2019, 09:54:29 AM
Super Mario Bros 2?
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: TakingBackSunday on March 07, 2019, 10:28:02 AM
knack 2?
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: thisismyusername on March 07, 2019, 10:51:51 AM
https://www.gog.com/game/diablo

:gladbron

Oh shit. Did they put Diablo 2 up as well?
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: demi on March 07, 2019, 10:55:50 AM
wow heh, old games. call me when pc actually gets new games, not interested in old games. heh. pathetic.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Himu on March 07, 2019, 11:02:42 AM
I haven’t played diablo 1 :larry
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: nachobro on March 07, 2019, 11:24:31 AM
warcraft 1 and 2 are coming too
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on March 07, 2019, 12:06:10 PM
I still have the boxed copy, but my pc doesn't have a drive  :lol

I haven’t played diablo 1 :larry

Best one (by the standards of when I was launched) and very different from 2 and 3.

SP playthrough was actually challenging and the game was a lot lot lot darker in tone then what blizzard has done since
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: benjipwns on March 07, 2019, 12:44:36 PM
Oh shit. Did they put Diablo 2 up as well?
No Blizzard still sells and supports that through battle.net.

There were also rumors they were considering a StarCraft like remaster of II. But they weren't going to do the first game, so GOG asked in and they decided to actually do it.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: benjipwns on March 07, 2019, 12:46:02 PM
Quote
Travelers looking for the authentic Diablo experience can play the game as it was in 1996, with period-appropriate 20 FPS SVGA graphics
:dead
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on March 07, 2019, 12:48:45 PM
Oh shit. Did they put Diablo 2 up as well?
No Blizzard still sells and supports that through battle.net.

There were also rumors they were considering a StarCraft like remaster of II. But they weren't going to do the first game, so GOG asked in and they decided to actually do it.

Id love a remake of one :( guess two as well but one is the true blueprint
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Himu on March 07, 2019, 01:02:29 PM
I still have the boxed copy, but my pc doesn't have a drive  :lol

I haven’t played diablo 1 :larry

Best one (by the standards of when I was launched) and very different from 2 and 3.

SP playthrough was actually challenging and the game was a lot lot lot darker in tone then what blizzard has done since

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83bFa9qL8XQ

:larry

Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Joe Molotov on March 07, 2019, 01:05:25 PM
Quote
Travelers looking for the authentic Diablo experience can play the game as it was in 1996, with period-appropriate 20 FPS SVGA graphics
:dead

When Blizzard patched 800x600 resolution support into Diablo II. :dsp
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: nachobro on March 07, 2019, 01:15:19 PM
i don't know if i'd care to go back to actually replaying diablo but damn that tristram town song is still fantastic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2evIg-aYw8
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: benjipwns on March 07, 2019, 01:56:09 PM
Id love a remake of one :( guess two as well but one is the true blueprint
This is partially "remade" to support modern resolutions and stuff like they did to StarCraft. They had to redraw all the sprites or the resolutions would squash and stretch them, they aren't just sized up.

They aren't totally redrawn like StarCraft Remastered, they're the original art as a base.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on March 08, 2019, 06:06:09 AM
I still have the boxed copy, but my pc doesn't have a drive  :lol

I haven’t played diablo 1 :larry

Best one (by the standards of when I was launched) and very different from 2 and 3.

SP playthrough was actually challenging and the game was a lot lot lot darker in tone then what blizzard has done since

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83bFa9qL8XQ

:larry

Wow ive never seen this! Thanks a million  :-*
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Great Rumbler on March 08, 2019, 09:06:34 AM
Played about half an hour yesterday and ended up losing a bunch of progress because I forgot that there's no respawn. :lol
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Himu on March 08, 2019, 09:08:37 AM
There isn't? :larry
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: nachobro on March 08, 2019, 09:10:26 AM
there sure is! you just respawn in town with none of your shit and have to go back and get it  :doge

oh god now i remember just leaving piles of gear and gold in town cause there's no bank :lol
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Himu on March 08, 2019, 09:12:27 AM
sounds dope
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Great Rumbler on March 08, 2019, 09:28:53 AM
there sure is! you just respawn in town with none of your shit and have to go back and get it  :doge

Hmm...maybe I missed something, but when I died it just brought up the main menu.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: nachobro on March 08, 2019, 09:31:07 AM
now i'm second guessing myself. was that only for bnet games? the perils of not playing a game for 15 years...

did you have a hardcore character? that's one death and done.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Himu on March 08, 2019, 09:41:30 AM
Listening to Diablo 2 ost today :aah
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: nachobro on March 08, 2019, 10:13:59 AM
i thought that was in at the start on D1 but maybe not
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: El Babua on March 08, 2019, 12:30:44 PM
IIRC, you only had one life in single player. So lots of save scumming. Also, lots of leaving piles of gold around town.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Great Rumbler on March 08, 2019, 12:33:24 PM
I was playing on the single-player, non B-Net version so maybe that was it?
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Human Snorenado on March 08, 2019, 12:47:52 PM
"Hey let's play a 23 year old game and make excuses for all of the anachronistic design choices as 'challenging'"

 :doge
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: nachobro on March 08, 2019, 01:25:47 PM
when's the ps1 version of diablo coming back? that was pretty fun as well.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Himu on March 08, 2019, 03:18:36 PM
I got it and it doesn't come with the expansion. ???
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: nachobro on March 08, 2019, 03:27:01 PM
the expansion wasn't made by blizzard, it was sierra. i remember there being some bad blood there so that might making licensing their work difficult.

too bad, the monk was a cool class.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: thisismyusername on March 08, 2019, 05:13:15 PM
the expansion wasn't made by blizzard, it was sierra. i remember there being some bad blood there so that might making licensing their work difficult.

too bad, the monk was a cool class.

https://www.polygon.com/features/2018/6/29/17517376/diablo-hellfire-expansion-behind-the-scenes-trouble

Also you can pirate it and make it work. There's a thread about using the "retail" version to make it work.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Fifstar on March 08, 2019, 05:21:40 PM
Just played it for an hour and save for 20% of my clicks not registering this is just as great as ever and shits all over Diablo 3.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: kingv on March 08, 2019, 05:27:32 PM
Can you still hexedit and town kill?
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: thisismyusername on March 08, 2019, 05:46:30 PM
Can you still hexedit and town kill?

There was nobody on Battle.net when I checked, but I guess so? :doge
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Himu on March 08, 2019, 05:53:00 PM
timu show me the best wide screen mod
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: thisismyusername on March 08, 2019, 09:44:30 PM
timu show me the best wide screen mod


I wouldn't know. I don't really mod too many games...

GoG's forums (https://www.gog.com/forum/diablo#1552099418) might be able to help you with that.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Himu on March 09, 2019, 02:26:14 AM
Damn. This is one of the best crpgs I've ever played. Haven't died yet but it's incredible. It's also great for short sessions. You can literally play it as long or short as you want to.

Haven't gotten quest for the butcher yet. Hope I didn't miss it.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: El Babua on March 09, 2019, 03:06:41 AM
You did.

Most of the quests you get are randomly assigned when you start a new game. Only way you can get the Butcher is if you start another playthrough and

spoiler (click to show/hide)
you see a bloody body by the entrance to the labyrinth
[close]
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Great Rumbler on March 09, 2019, 09:21:19 AM
I got a bow for my rogue that has knockback and it's incredibly OP since it even knocks bosses. Absolutely destroyed the Butcher and barely even got touched fighting King Leoric.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Himu on March 09, 2019, 12:27:53 PM
You did.

Most of the quests you get are randomly assigned when you start a new game. Only way you can get the Butcher is if you start another playthrough and

spoiler (click to show/hide)
you see a bloody body by the entrance to the labyrinth
[close]

I hope I didn’t pass the butcher quest. Since it’s my first time playing I hope I didn’t just walk past the dude.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: thisismyusername on March 09, 2019, 01:35:11 PM
You did.

Most of the quests you get are randomly assigned when you start a new game. Only way you can get the Butcher is if you start another playthrough and

spoiler (click to show/hide)
you see a bloody body by the entrance to the labyrinth
[close]

I hope I didn’t pass the butcher quest. Since it’s my first time playing I hope I didn’t just walk past the dude.

...You did. If you didn't see the body, you don't have/get the quest.

https://diablo.gamepedia.com/Quests_(Diablo_I)
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Fifstar on March 09, 2019, 04:45:46 PM
timu show me the best wide screen mod

I believe the best widescreen mod als forces some changes (new fan made enemies and stuff like that) so I never bothered with it.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Himu on March 09, 2019, 04:49:06 PM
So if I walked by the dying man at the church will he come back eventually.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: thisismyusername on March 09, 2019, 05:09:37 PM
So if I walked by the dying man at the church will he come back eventually.


You misunderstand.

On "new game"/game creation, you have a set amount of quests. You may or may not have that dead body in your game. From what you're saying, you may not have had that body in your game, thereby the Butcher quest isn't in your characters run.

You'll have to remake a new character to see if you get that quest.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Himu on March 09, 2019, 05:37:53 PM
I didn't misunderstand at all. Never mind.

Anyways, only issue with this game is the lack of a way to easily find loot on the ground. There needs to be an alt high light.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Himu on March 09, 2019, 06:13:35 PM
This game is so fucking legit. As someone who always enjoys playing Diablo single player it’s fucking amazing as an so experience.

Game really is just over if you die. Dope. Gotta invest in town portals and lots of heal items as a rogue.

On floor 4.

edit: Yeahhhhh, I never got the Butcher quest. Just started up a Warrior game just to see what happens and it's obvious that you can interact with the dying guy. No way I would have missed it.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Great Rumbler on March 09, 2019, 06:55:58 PM
I honestly thought the Butcher was just there automatically.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: nudemacusers on March 10, 2019, 12:16:30 AM
I didn’t play d1 a huge amount but I had the butcher every time. Huh.

D2 was my jam, d3 is aight but my son is really into it so I play with him on Xbox.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on March 10, 2019, 01:23:49 AM
I thought the butcher was one of the story quests you always get.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Himu on March 10, 2019, 01:38:58 AM
Butcher was hard.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: benjipwns on March 10, 2019, 05:57:50 AM
when's the ps1 version of diablo coming back? that was pretty fun as well.
that one might have some more difficult rights issues as it was developed by Climax Studios and published by EA who Blizzard sold "all console rights" to even though EA only did it for PS1 in the end

it is a unique version of the game though versus a more traditional port, was basically created from scratch in many ways just adhering to the original game rules/assets/etc., has two-player co-op, changes how the story is presented completely
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Himu on March 10, 2019, 05:00:32 PM
"The smell of DEATH is all around me!"

:gladbron

This game is DOPE! I also got a knock back bow for my rogue and it fucking rocks. In some ways I think this may be better than Diablo 2.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on March 10, 2019, 05:01:04 PM
Back when smartphones were new I was so psyched when my galaxy s2 could emulate the psx version of diablo 1, of course unplayable on touch screen
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on March 10, 2019, 05:02:06 PM
"The smell of DEATH is all around me!"

:gladbron

This game is DOPE! I also got a knock back bow for my rogue and it fucking rocks. In some ways I think this may be better than Diablo 2.

I used a bow as my alternate weapon on my warrior till the end to kill runners and get some shots in
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Himu on March 11, 2019, 02:46:03 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Mc6TPac.png)

This room. I massacred them.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Fifstar on March 11, 2019, 12:14:08 PM
"The smell of DEATH is all around me!"

:gladbron

This game is DOPE! I also got a knock back bow for my rogue and it fucking rocks. In some ways I think this may be better than Diablo 2.

While Diablo 2 improved almost everything from the first game, it also began to streamline a lot of stuff. In a way, Diablo 2 is the starting point for a lot of modern game philosophies where games are very consciously designed around gameplay loops that are built to addict the player. Diablo 1 is very elegant compared to it's contemporaries (especially on PC) but still feels like a hardcore game.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Himu on March 11, 2019, 11:05:55 PM
Went back and quickly installed D2 LOD and played the first few quests.

Yeah, I think D1 is my favorite Diablo game. It ticks all of my boxes. D2 is the game with all the loot and flash, but less substance and mystery. I've also not used a single potion yet and have been relying level ups for heals. D1 truly is da gawd.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on March 12, 2019, 03:01:16 AM
I think its amazing you can think that playing the game for the first time in 2019 and nail down why its so good and different.

I like D2 and D3 as well, but they evolved so far from what made D1 so special.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Himu on March 12, 2019, 06:13:39 AM
I’m really surprised that the overall sentiment towards D2 wasn’t disappointment after D1. I’m going to chalk up D2 as the FFVII of Diablo and D1 as the FFVI for the sake of a bad comparison. I’m going to assume less people played D1 overall than D2.

I’ll be honest. I liked Diablo before playing the first. I wasn’t a mega fan of the genre. Titan Quest was the first game of the genre I played. It was okay. I never grew up on crpgs and came in late so I never played Diablo 2. Diablo 3 was my first Diablo. Before playing it I felt the genre was mediocre at best. Like, I’d play Torchlight and thought the game sucked. But Diablo III was the first game of its kind to suck me in in any real way. I loved the game but never had any reason to replay it with another character. I loved the multiplayer and building up your character over time but overall it was just a giant rabbit hole of endlessness and the overall game wasn’t lean or challenging enough to stand on its own without the addiction loop. Still, I had enough fun for it to last a while and dumped hundreds of hours into it.

At the time I didn’t quite understand the hubbub surrounding why Diablo fans didn’t like 3, but now I do. It was Disney by comparison of D1 and 2. Gone was the isolation and was replaced with a bunch of mercs endlessly talking. Gone was the challenge and thinking. The combat was fun and great though, but thinking that I would use for a game like Baldurs Gate wasn’t present. I was curious why any crpg fan could ever find Diablo a top tier crpg franchise. It was fun and all, but where was the choice? Where was the decision making that made the genre so great?

I later played Diablo 2. I liked it far more, but it was still mostly easy and mindless. Lots of great loot, but that’s meaningless if you mow down most enemies with ease.

I gave Path of Exile a shot and it was just jank.

I pretty much just passed the pc action rpg as just not for me. Not a bad genre but not something robust like the Ultima VII’s, Fallout 2’s, Baldur’s Gate’s of old. I pretty much filed the genre as inferior and vapid.

I bought Diablo 1 on a lark. First of all, it was cheap. Second of all, the premise sounded fun. I was still hesitant and figured I’d have wasted 10 bucks going by how it’s considered “old”. Turns out Diablo 1 is the first pc arpg that has the sensibilities of an actual game with choices rather than shoving endless shiny shit in your face.

Reasons why Diablo 1 is the best arpg:

- the feeling of isolation is unparalleled. As you slowly descend the church you get further and further away from a safe haven and it feels like it too.

- one centralized locale and organic storytelling. You’re not traveling all over the world and fighting in jungles or ancient Egypt Esau’s country. Keep that shit simple, fam. Get in, get out. This makes the characters not only more in depth but there’s a great feeling of slowly unraveling a mystery. You don’t know who the witch on the edge of town is. Turns out she just suddenly showed up the night of the attack. Details are revealed slowly. Why’s Farnham an alcoholic and why’s his mind broken? Oh. OH. Who is Lazarus? Each question is thoroughly examined as you go through the game like the fog of war in an RTS. This makes the storytelling in Diablo 1 involved. By contrast no one will shut up in D2 and 3. Far too much dialogue and spilling the beans through back story.

- Mobs mean death. In D1 you must take every precaution to make quell death. You lack inventory space but that’s okay because loot drops don’t disappear when you leave the game. So you can drop something you don’t need now and save it for later. That’s a decision. Even in the early game you have a pretty big chance of dying and it’s up to the player to best decide how to overcome the odds. Loot helps, but it will not save you alone.

- less drops which makes the loot you find more meaningful.

- the rogue esque singular dungeon motif really fucking works and is far more addictive than D2’s loot cycle. Being able to make it to the next floor, starting the next quest, that shit makes the soul burn.

Diablo 1 is by far the most complete game I’ve ever played in the genre and rivals the best crpgs.

TLDR: I used to think that KOTOR was the turning point for the wrpg. Turns out it was Diablo 2. Diablo 2 was the FFVII of wrprgs. I like D2 and 3 but they aren’t even remotely on par.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Himu on March 12, 2019, 07:48:48 AM
Well, I only played PoE shortly. I didn't like the way it felt. Maybe I'll give it another shot.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Great Rumbler on March 12, 2019, 09:17:22 AM
Grim Dawn is pretty good. Takes a lot of what worked with Titan Quest, but refines and expands the gameplay a lot. It's also a lot darker/gothic than TQ.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Himu on March 12, 2019, 11:08:30 AM
One problem I've always had with D2 is how instanced it is. If I wanna save and leave, I gotta go to town but when I come back to where I left off I gotta go through the same field again. Hell, in D2, you can go teleport to town for a short, temporary reprieve to sell some items, go back to where you are and lose all of your map progress. Then there's the fact loot you get isn't saved. You'll plow through hundreds of enemies but if you need to quit and return to the game later you have to do it all over again. It's tedious and badly designed. It's like playing a fucking MMO and I have no idea how that part of the game is fun.

Diablo 1? My map is saved, my loot is saved, my items are saved despite it being randomly generated. I can quit the game and have the same mana potions I left at the store ground still there to be used later. That floor I was clearing that I left off still remembers where I was when I left off and still knows my map progress. It feels like people mention Diablo 1 doesn't have loot highlight and stuff like that when Diablo 1 is objectively the better, tighter experience unless you're an addict that like enjoys repeating content over and over.

I just don't get it. Diablo 2 is a great game and everything but fuck is it annoying and repetitive. Even playing it in single player is like playing an MMO.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on March 12, 2019, 11:49:08 AM
Amen.

D3 is basically all about speed runs and how efficient you can get which at its core is incompatible withe the dread and horror of 1 where you descend deeper into hell and its about survival
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Himu on March 12, 2019, 11:57:19 AM
But I want to farm, Lager.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: thisismyusername on March 12, 2019, 07:52:16 PM
But I want to farm, Lager.

This is why Diablo 2 is instanced. So you can't just kill everything on a level and go back. You have to pick up what you want, go to store etc. before leaving the game.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Joe Molotov on March 12, 2019, 08:04:47 PM
Cracking open a cold one with the boys and doing Mephisto runs. :rejoice
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Himu on March 12, 2019, 08:22:18 PM
But I want to farm, Lager.

This is why Diablo 2 is instanced. So you can't just kill everything on a level and go back. You have to pick up what you want, go to store etc. before leaving the game.

Why doesn't it take a page out of D1's book and keep enemies dead? Forever?
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: thisismyusername on March 12, 2019, 09:02:09 PM
But I want to farm, Lager.

This is why Diablo 2 is instanced. So you can't just kill everything on a level and go back. You have to pick up what you want, go to store etc. before leaving the game.

Why doesn't it take a page out of D1's book and keep enemies dead? Forever?

Because that'd get boring fast? I mean you can already "rush" through the acts, farming would become mindless if enemies (the loot spawners) were dead because 1) the spawns would have to be calculated by the game (taking up CPU [for the time] processing time]) and 2) there would be no "game" there if farming was just item drops after you've cleared an act.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: naff on March 12, 2019, 09:05:37 PM
Why doesn't it take a page out of D1's book and keep enemies dead? Forever?


 ???

it was a post game focussed, mmo light experience where the online component, fun in level repetition and randomly generated tile sets were the key difference between it and other cRPGs at the time
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Himu on March 12, 2019, 09:16:28 PM
But I want to farm, Lager.

This is why Diablo 2 is instanced. So you can't just kill everything on a level and go back. You have to pick up what you want, go to store etc. before leaving the game.

Why doesn't it take a page out of D1's book and keep enemies dead? Forever?

Because that'd get boring fast? I mean you can already "rush" through the acts, farming would become mindless if enemies (the loot spawners) were dead because 1) the spawns would have to be calculated by the game (taking up CPU [for the time] processing time]) and 2) there would be no "game" there if farming was just item drops after you've cleared an act.

But that just makes the game repetitive.

Why doesn't it take a page out of D1's book and keep enemies dead? Forever?


 ???

it was a post game focussed, mmo light experience where the online component, fun in level repetition and randomly generated tile sets were the key difference between it and other cRPGs at the time

Why is a post-game focused, mmo light experience good? It just leads to repetitive gameplay and a situation where the first two modes are filler till you get to the "real game". In my experience this places style over substance. Encounters should count for something. Diablo 2 and 3 feel like they're addictive for the sake of being addictive the same way an mmo would. I prefer tighter, designed experience of 1. Diablo 2 is fun, it's addictive. But I don't see how addictive means good.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Human Snorenado on March 13, 2019, 12:12:18 AM
ARPGs in general are meant to be repetitive, the same way Shenmue is meant to be boring. It's part of the charm of the genre.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: thisismyusername on March 13, 2019, 12:46:50 AM
But that just makes the game repetitive.

...That's the whole gameplay loop of the lootwhore genre, hon.

Kill shit->Loot pops out->cool young dude your character->Kill more shit->Finish game->Start new game+/harder difficulties->Kill shit->Loot pops-out->Kill more shit->etc.

Until you either tire or have your twinked out character that is GDLK. ...Until the season ends/character wipe.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: nudemacusers on March 13, 2019, 07:19:11 AM
Baal loot runs  :money

Mephisto loot runs :money

Andariel loot runs :money
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Himu on March 13, 2019, 10:08:43 AM
But that just makes the game repetitive.

...That's the whole gameplay loop of the lootwhore genre, hon.

Kill shit->Loot pops out->cool young dude your character->Kill more shit->Finish game->Start new game+/harder difficulties->Kill shit->Loot pops-out->Kill more shit->etc.

Until you either tire or have your twinked out character that is GDLK. ...Until the season ends/character wipe.

I mean I’m not saying it’s not fun. I guess I prefer dungeon crawling in 1 to that kind of grind. I like closure. Your characters eventually becoming godlike and literally angels is the exact reason why 3 doesn’t have the mood of 1. Surely there’s a medium between D1 and D2. Something like D3 is excessive but having a tight experience of D1 and the gameplay loop of D2.


 
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on March 13, 2019, 11:03:52 AM
Its anachronistic to say this has always been the loop because it wasn't with D1

Its like D1 made this genre and it was about survival
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Himu on March 13, 2019, 11:05:39 AM
Right. Now every arpg needs the same loop.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: demi on March 13, 2019, 11:10:36 AM
Kill things once, make progress  :larry

Kill things a lot of times, get items to make you kill them faster, efficiently  :aah
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Human Snorenado on March 13, 2019, 11:11:03 AM
TBH D1 is a very different kind of game, and I feel like a lot of that is due to the limitations of the time when it was developed. Blizzard North wasn't a big deal and didn't get a lot of resources, it was made in a pretty short period of time IIRC, etc. It's mostly focused on being a survivalistic dungeon crawler and succeeds at it. To me the real loot based ARPG genre starts with D2. At heart they're very different games and I almost feel like comparing them is counter productive. They both succeed wildly at what they're trying to do, they're just trying to do two different things.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Himu on March 13, 2019, 11:16:39 AM
I feel like there’s two kinds of diablo fans. Those who love the survival first, loot second aspect and those who love loot above anything else so they can achieve mass effeciency.

I’m not sure if it’s possible to please both groups. Apparently D3 now is just about effeciency and this riles up those who like survival. D1 is all about survival and this makes it unappealing to those who want loot.

It’s not that I don’t like loot - I love it! But it’s only one element that helps increase survival. Surviving makes loot all the sweeter. If you give constant candy it’s too sweet and it makes the search for it pointless. I’m not sure how you can appease these two types of fans because their wants appear to be counter productive when put against each other.

The only solution I can think of is making the main game about survival to the point where effeciency is a necessity.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Rufus on March 13, 2019, 11:18:56 AM
TBH D1 is a very different kind of game, and I feel like a lot of that is due to the limitations of the time when it was developed. Blizzard North wasn't a big deal and didn't get a lot of resources, it was made in a pretty short period of time IIRC, etc. It's mostly focused on being a survivalistic dungeon crawler and succeeds at it. To me the real loot based ARPG genre starts with D2. At heart they're very different games and I almost feel like comparing them is counter productive. They both succeed wildly at what they're trying to do, they're just trying to do two different things.
And don't forget, it was meant to be turn-based until it turned out that David Brevik was the only one on the team who preferred it that way.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on March 13, 2019, 11:40:19 AM
TBH D1 is a very different kind of game, and I feel like a lot of that is due to the limitations of the time when it was developed. Blizzard North wasn't a big deal and didn't get a lot of resources, it was made in a pretty short period of time IIRC, etc. It's mostly focused on being a survivalistic dungeon crawler and succeeds at it. To me the real loot based ARPG genre starts with D2. At heart they're very different games and I almost feel like comparing them is counter productive. They both succeed wildly at what they're trying to do, they're just trying to do two different things.

I mean thats like your interpretation and I think is wrong as Rufus said it was even supposed to be turn based and the emphasis was on roguelile not loot.

Not once have I heard "we wantes showers of loot but the hardware held us back".

And yeah i agree with they are totally different games

For me D1 is the real true diablo
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on March 13, 2019, 11:44:55 AM
Just irks me to no end when people say the arpg genre ia about loot and repetition.

Imho dark souls is a good heir to diablo.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Himu on March 13, 2019, 12:28:08 PM
Although I think Diablo 1 is probably a better game for my tastes, I've never had as much fun with the genre as Sorc in D2.

(https://i.imgur.com/IGMxQzN.jpg)

:rejoice

Lightning girl :bow
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Himu on March 13, 2019, 12:40:31 PM
I'm more than halfway through Diablo 1. Should beat it by the weekend. Then I'm starting a sorc run. I'm not sure if I'll play it as much as I have done with D2 or 3, though. At least not without the expansion. I have to buy the expansion somehow. :larry Might pirate it.

In the end I think it's best for me to separate it between two different games and just enjoy D1 and D2 for what they are.

Fuck D3 though.

We should all play D2 together some time. Fuck pubs.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Human Snorenado on March 13, 2019, 04:00:13 PM
I feel like there’s two kinds of diablo fans. Those who love the survival first, loot second aspect and those who love loot above anything else so they can achieve mass effeciency.

I’m not sure if it’s possible to please both groups. Apparently D3 now is just about effeciency and this riles up those who like survival. D1 is all about survival and this makes it unappealing to those who want loot.

It’s not that I don’t like loot - I love it! But it’s only one element that helps increase survival. Surviving makes loot all the sweeter. If you give constant candy it’s too sweet and it makes the search for it pointless. I’m not sure how you can appease these two types of fans because their wants appear to be counter productive when put against each other.

The only solution I can think of is making the main game about survival to the point where effeciency is a necessity.

Well, considering that D1 is pretty singular and every ARPG since D2 has pretty much just tried to ape D2 I guess we know which group is getting catered to

:yeshrug
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Himu on March 13, 2019, 04:01:12 PM
I feel like there’s two kinds of diablo fans. Those who love the survival first, loot second aspect and those who love loot above anything else so they can achieve mass effeciency.

I’m not sure if it’s possible to please both groups. Apparently D3 now is just about effeciency and this riles up those who like survival. D1 is all about survival and this makes it unappealing to those who want loot.

It’s not that I don’t like loot - I love it! But it’s only one element that helps increase survival. Surviving makes loot all the sweeter. If you give constant candy it’s too sweet and it makes the search for it pointless. I’m not sure how you can appease these two types of fans because their wants appear to be counter productive when put against each other.

The only solution I can think of is making the main game about survival to the point where effeciency is a necessity.

Well, considering that D1 is pretty singular and every ARPG since D2 has pretty much just tried to ape D2 I guess we know which group is getting catered to

:yeshrug

I know they're being catered to. I'm saying I feel that both should be catered to.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Human Snorenado on March 13, 2019, 04:05:33 PM
Lager is right in that the souls games are a sort of spiritual successor to D1 in some ways. Of course they emphasize "absurd enemy mechanics that people mistake for dick punchingly hard difficulty" as opposed to testing skill in any real meaningful way. (DO NOT @ ME, BITCHES)
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Himu on March 13, 2019, 04:10:37 PM
I don't like Souls much. Too much repetition. Traveling 10 minutes to refight a boss instead of putting a damn save point before the boss room is not difficulty, souls nerds. It's tedium.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: TEEEPO on March 13, 2019, 04:16:36 PM
i still vividly remember the arguments as to whether diablo is a better than nethack or rogue

thanks to cindi, i now realize how badly i want a game more akin to the first diablo than the countless hack and slash titles that have followed diablo 2's footprint. i just don't personally care much for loot and much prefer the randomness you encounter in a lot of the oldschool roguelikes that made dungeon crawling so exhilarating

Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Himu on March 13, 2019, 04:20:10 PM
It's not the same as Diablo because what is, but if you can play Shiren the Wanderer. As a connoisseur of dungeon crawlers, I have many suggestions. :snob

https://youtu.be/OYruBkhKjmw
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Rufus on March 13, 2019, 05:53:34 PM
The 'clones' that spring to mind:

Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance
...and its Snowblind engine brother from another mother, Champions of Norrath. Good enough loot. Boring skills. Fun but shallow, which makes it feel much longer than it is. Noteworthy for doing console ARPGs right (and for having very sharp visuals, even on PS2). Made entirely obsolete by Diablo 3.

Darkstone
Apes the Diablo formula very closely, but has more outside environments. Bright and lighthearted. Early 3D, so the visuals aged poorly.

Nox
Zany and fast. Requires more dexterity than its cousins. Linear and static, so might not even belong here, but Westwood were gods and this game is good so fuck it. (Want to add Divine Divinity too, but remember even less about it. Similarly linear and static though. I think.)

Throne of Darkness
Samurai-era demonry. You control a squad of samurai rather than just one person, so some tactical wrangling required. Remember it having an odd upgrade and item system and I ultimately didn't get along with it.

Torchlight
Diablo set-up (hole in the ground, explore it), but has pets (to sell loot and buy potions for you) and fishing. I finished it, but it bored me to death. Remember nothing of quests and skill systems. Sequel was more of the same, but more varied environs.

Sacred
Doesn't have much going for it besides its custom combo system. ...Germany represent! (RIP Ascaron)

Soldak Entertainments's output (Depth's of Peril, Din's Curse, Zombasite)
Perhaps the most complex games on the list. Only ever played the demos (and bounced off). The loop matches Diablo closely, but they're more systemic, with less bespoke content, i.e. quests feel or are randomly generated, with dynamic objectives and time limits that actually matter and shit.

There are more recent games like Van Helsing, Victor Vran and Vikings - Wolves of Midgard, but they're in the Dark Alliance and Diablo 3 mold and are all going to be quickly forgotten.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Himu on March 13, 2019, 06:17:48 PM
What about Dungeon Siege?
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Rufus on March 13, 2019, 06:47:22 PM
Good call. Quite different from Diablo. Linear with static environments. Boring loot as I recall. It's draw is controlling an entire squad, which you will have on auto all of the time. I don't know. I think I had fun with it, but I didn't get very far into the sequel, which was more of the same, so...
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Great Rumbler on March 13, 2019, 07:49:37 PM
Sacred 1 was kinda meh, but I really liked Sacred 2.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: nachobro on March 13, 2019, 07:54:20 PM
Titan Quest is another good game in the Diablo style
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on March 14, 2019, 01:23:41 AM
Torchlight is one of the worst Diablo clones.

Grim Dawn is cool, bit Lovecraftian vibe to it
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Himu on March 14, 2019, 07:17:37 AM
Once I’m done with Diablo 1 does anyone want to play D2 multi on bnet with me?
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Rufus on March 14, 2019, 01:36:45 PM
Titan Quest had much more interesting skills and items, but the world is static and very boring to go through multiple times. Grim Dawn has very similar systems and is probably the better choice these days. I have yet to play it, but I hear nothing but good things about it.

Oh, also, I agree with Borys that Nox doesn't really belong (or Divine Divinity), but it's definitely worth playing regardless.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Great Rumbler on March 14, 2019, 02:12:18 PM
Grim Dawn is very good and the world feels a lot like Diablo [dark and brooding, demonic invasion, humanity on the brink of destruction].
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Human Snorenado on March 14, 2019, 04:18:11 PM
Grim Dawn is great. New expansion coming out later this month, too, adds a new endgame mode
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on March 14, 2019, 06:08:28 PM
Just that cowboy wild west level is bullshit in grim dawn tjoughy, act 2 or whatever.

 :-X
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Fifstar on March 15, 2019, 10:23:07 AM
Beat the 7th and 8th level yesterday. I stubbornly insisted on doing it all completly with melee combat. Those fuckin' archers got the best of me. Finally got a decent bow after mopping up level 8  :lol
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: thisismyusername on March 15, 2019, 03:47:39 PM
I haven't gotten around to Torchlight 2, but yeah: I agree with the assessment that 1 was very boring. The good thing about it is the pet being able to go back to the overworld to sell your stuff while you're dungeoning. But that's about it. Apparently someone modded D2's synergy system into the game which makes T2 better, but I wouldn't know yet.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Great Rumbler on March 15, 2019, 05:08:11 PM
I tried to play Torchlight 2 years after it came out and I just couldn't get into it at all. Nothing about it really stands out enough to make it interesting.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Human Snorenado on March 15, 2019, 05:19:23 PM
Torchlight 2 was interesting up until I figure out that it didn't matter what you did, all skills would eventually basically equally faceroll everything
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: thisismyusername on March 20, 2019, 12:24:48 AM
Speaking of Diablo-clones: Sacred 2 is pretty boring. I tried to like it, but... it's not that great. The PC port is a bit junk (since they focused on consoles? IIRC?) and it's... not that great gameplay wise, IMO.

I remember Teknopathetic making an official thread for it on NeoGAF and it sounded/looked interesting enough, but the world just isn't engaging enough for me to want to really continue playing it.

At least I got it for a $1.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Joe Molotov on March 21, 2019, 09:28:14 PM
The only Diablo-like that I ever really enjoyed was Titan Quest. I played that a ton back in the day. Nothing else ever hit the right spot, but I probably should try Grim Dawn, tho.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Human Snorenado on March 21, 2019, 10:48:43 PM
I enjoyed Titan Quest, Path of Exile, and Grim Dawn. I don't like how PoE keeps changing so fucking much every 3 months but I understand that's their business model, and enough people enjoy it to the point where they're profitable because of it.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Human Snorenado on March 24, 2019, 12:26:04 PM
I enjoyed Titan Quest, Path of Exile, and Grim Dawn. I don't like how PoE keeps changing so fucking much every 3 months but I understand that's their business model, and enough people enjoy it to the point where they're profitable because of it.

PoE had a massive restructurization once that introduced 10 Acts. That was like 1.5 year ago. Since that they only added shit for MP/ PVP like new Rifts, Infinite Dungeons etc.

I strongly recommend ANYONE liking Diablo 1/2/3 to play PoE SP. It is incredibly good and rewarding. 10 Acts of pure Diablo goodness.

Yeah I know, I've played 2 leagues since then. I just don't like how every 3 months a new layer of whatever gets added to the game, makes it too dense to keep up with. There's gotta be a happy medium between D3's "here's a ladder reset every 3 months but no new actual content except maybe 2-3 balance changes, lulz" and PoE's "yo dog we heard you liked content so here's some content to go with your content, also plz buy cosmetic microtransactions and stash tabz" approaches.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Rufus on March 27, 2019, 06:06:02 PM
DevGameClub interviewed David Brevik recently. Haven't listened to it yet, but could be interesting.
http://www.devgameclub.com/blog/2019/3/27/dgc-ep-156-david-brevik-interview
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: thisismyusername on June 05, 2019, 01:08:56 PM
HELLFIRE IS NOW INCLUDED!</caps>

No, really. Go check GOG if you don't believe me.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: nachobro on June 05, 2019, 01:11:21 PM
wow thats shocking as hell lol, good shit
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on June 05, 2019, 01:16:46 PM
Hmmm I still havea boxed version of Hellfire
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Joe Molotov on June 05, 2019, 10:21:41 PM
HELLFIRE IS NOW INCLUDED!</caps>

No, really. Go check GOG if you don't believe me.

I don't believe you, and also I won't check. Checkmate, liberal.
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: Himu on June 05, 2019, 10:37:44 PM
Dled. Also have an official cd copy of the original game now so I’ll burn this copy of hellfire :rejoice
Title: Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
Post by: thisismyusername on June 06, 2019, 06:08:19 AM
HELLFIRE IS NOW INCLUDED!</caps>

No, really. Go check GOG if you don't believe me.

I don't believe you, and also I won't check. Checkmate, liberal.

Shit, I've been owned. :fbm