THE BORE
General => The Superdeep Borehole => Topic started by: Cerveza mas fina on March 17, 2019, 02:35:01 AM
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Ever see anything more heartbreaking then kids actually begging on the streets for adults to stop killing their future?
Lot of people need to take a long, hard look into the mirror and stop living like there is no tomorrow.
If in 2019 you are still not concious (and acting on it) about the food, clothes, stuff you buy and consume, the car you drive, the holidays you fly off to etc you are pretty much the same as a biggot that discriminates against non whites/lgbt or whoever.
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fox news here covered parents suing a specific school for letting the students participate
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I bet those motherfuckers don't even recycle their shit.
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German conservative politicians are handwringing about how they're skipping school for this. :lol
Particularly amusing to me, since my home state is still #1 in missed school hours due to staff shortages. :heh
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German conservative politicians are handwringing about how they're skipping school for this. :lol
Particularly amusing to me, since my home state is still #1 in missed school hours due to staff shortages. :heh
Same in France, the Ministry of Education went as far as deciding to order schools to have climate debates from 16h to 18h on the Friday of the protest in order to try to force them in schools.
:comeon
Good for them. It helps awareness and we certainly need that.
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dont put paint on those fucking stones dumb bitches, stones are nature and you are killing it
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i sort of get what you're saying, but i went on a few protests when i was an excitable teenager and they were all great fun. like a little walking festival.
maybe they'd have more impact if they did them like in the middle east, all open coffins, effigy burning and wailing masses.
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imagine being afraid of a bogeyman in 2019.
It’s the same scam as religion: indoctrinate the kids, live the way we decide and send us your money so we can keep doing the Lords work. Meanwhile you get the false sense of “living more righteous” than your neighbor.
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If in 2019 you are still not concious (and acting on it) about the food, clothes, stuff you buy and consume, the car you drive, the holidays you fly off to etc you are pretty much the same as a biggot that discriminates against non whites/lgbt or whoever.
:iface
It's cool if you decide if you do some of these things for your own morale. But getting this preachy about it is :nope Because you can't escape being a hypocrite one way or the other, considering the way modern consumerist society is inherently designed. Firstly, trying to only consume clean increases living costs significantly, to the point that it is impossible for many people with (below) average income. Secondly, even only consuming premium products doesn't change that you sooner or later buy shit that is soaked in Asian children's tears or rainforest ash or whatever. Unless you live in some mountain shack like a hermit.
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Pretty weird how this suddenly started all over the world eh.
Kids protesting against climate change, then hitting up McDonalds and leaving all their garbage behind.
Must be something in the water.
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I bet those motherfuckers don't even recycle their shit.
What really pisses me off is the folks that throw used plastic/glasses into the trash bin. No, bitch, that can be recycled. Take your lazy ass and put it in the other bin.
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If you're not growing your own garden in your backyard then you're doing less than nothing
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imagine being afraid of a bogeyman in 2019.
It’s the same scam as religion: indoctrinate the kids, live the way we decide and send us your money so we can keep doing the Lords work. Meanwhile you get the false sense of “living more righteous” than your neighbor.
Yeah, imagine using this issue to cultivate a personal sense of superiority to other people...
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If I knew you could take time off school for protests I would have been more politically active as a kid ffs
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(https://i.imgur.com/lRsM5yd.png)
when someone posts almost exactly the same thing as you and gets all the likes for the post
:ltg
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shosta's in the yang gang so he can get some universal basic likes without earning them.
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rode past a kid that day with a sign that said "i bet the dinosaurs thought they had a lot more time too" :lol
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While I don't necessarily disagree with their message, it's all a little too well organised to be this spontaneous protest as it has been portrayed.
The whole thing smacks of naive kids being indoctrinated and taken advantage of by some pretty well organised political activists with an agenda that doesn't necessarily align with what the kids are doing this for.
Some proper hypocrisy going on too. Where I am, it's government policy to air-condition all school classrooms. Are these kids going to go without that luxury to "save the planet"?
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that's a dumb post, mr potato
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Why?
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Spuds rule
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either you think climate change is real or some sort of nefarious globalist hoax
if you think it's a hoax just come out and say it
if you think it's real then there's no way to look at the discourse surrounding it and conclude that some idealistic kids are The Problem
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Climate change is real but in our country they had calculated that to reduce the temperate increase by 0.00007 C degrees we had to spend about 900 billion.
Unless the kiddo's throw their iPhones in the trash and stop buying Disney shit and McDonalds this problem is never going to be solved.
Time, money and effort is better spend on finding a real solution than to use solutions that have already proven not to work.
Throrium reactors seem promising. Perhaps space colonies to reduce the carbon foot print on the planet.
Reusing a plastic bottle isn't going to make much of a difference if China builts a coal plant every month.
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the thing is you lie constantly and are too dumb to understand basic concepts, so
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the thing is you lie constantly and are too dumb to understand basic concepts, so
at least I'm not marrec 8)
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you spent like ten minutes writing that
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either you think climate change is real or some sort of nefarious globalist hoax
if you think it's a hoax just come out and say it
if you think it's real then there's no way to look at the discourse surrounding it and conclude that some idealistic kids are The Problem
Not sure how you get to that conclusion from my post. I didn't say anything about climate change, rather I commented on the motivations of the kids and the adults who are organising them.
It's clear climate change is real, that isn't in doubt.
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It's clear climate change is real, that isn't in doubt.
cool, then line 3 of my post applies
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Climate change is real but in our country they had calculated that to reduce the temperate increase by 0.00007 C degrees we had to spend about 900 billion.
"we" ??? Are you referencing the IPCC report estimating a total requirement of ~900 billion annually in "energy related investments" to limit warming to 1.5c above industrial levels by 2050?
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Climate change is real but in our country they had calculated that to reduce the temperate increase by 0.00007 C degrees we had to spend about 900 billion.
"we" ??? Are you referencing the IPCC report estimating a total requirement of ~900 billion annually in "energy related investments" to limit warming to 1.5c above industrial levels by 2050?
No the Dutch government has a plan to meat the Paris goals. They have to spend 900 billion, increase taxes on energy, basically ban all cars that run on gas and litter the landscape with wind turbines and even doing all that they won't meet the Paris goals.
The flow chart is simple
Good person(TM)
1) You have to believe in climate change
2) You have to believe that climate change is caused by humans
3) You have to believe that re-using your plastic bottles and not eating hamburgers will make any difference
4) You have to believe and encourage and support anyone who brings up climate change whenever
5) You have to believe that every 'recent' disaster from the Syrian war to the California forest fires is caused by climate change
6) You have to believe that the war against climate change is worth everything, including ruining your economy and civilization
7) You have to believe that fighting climate change is going to work even if Russia, China and other developing countries do nothing
(BONUS POINTS: AL GORE WAS RIGHT)
If you don't meet any of the above requirements you are a Nazi racist bigot.
A sort of religous zeal that has caused people who were pretty much with the climate people on points 1,2,3 to side with the climate sceptics
Easier way to fix climate change is to have all the best thinkers in the world. Currently employed to built trains for Siemens, planes for Lockheed, movies for Disney, drill for Rosneft, design phones for Apple and cars and rockets for Elon to come up with workable and practical solutions to handle this problem. If it's a man made process it can be reversed by man.
This has been going on for decades and suddenly we all have to 'panic'. I'm sorry, I'm not panicking about this because the media suffered from a stroke November 2016.
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(((climate change)))
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It's clear climate change is real, that isn't in doubt.
cool, then line 3 of my post applies
Sure, but I don't have a problem with the kids, just the people in the background using them as political pawns in a larger political fight.
i.e Back to my original point of it being wrong to exploit well intentioned but naive kids to advance your political agenda.
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No the Dutch government has a plan to meat the Paris goals. They have to spend 900 billion, increase taxes on energy, basically ban all cars that run on gas and litter the landscape with wind turbines and even doing all that they won't meet the Paris goals.
again, you have a history of telling lies
not saying that to insult you (a happy byproduct), but to explain why people aren't going to just take your word for something without references
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Sure, but I don't have a problem with the kids, just the people in the background using them as political pawns in a larger political fight.
i.e Back to my original point of it being wrong to exploit well intentioned but naive kids to advance your political agenda.
except there's no evidence of exploitation here other than you just asserting it, and calling the kids hypocrites for going to government mandated schools with air conditioning
kids having their worldviews shaped by the adults around them, and how those adults present and contextualize information, is not in and of itself "exploitation," it's just society
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also, super vague, ~~~~900 billion~~~~ we talking annually, we talking about extra tax on the populace, we talking about additional spending on infrastructure and improving efficiency?
as far as whether china and russia care, russia are a drop in the ocean and china and india are steadily improving their renewable energy generation, and driving down the cost of production
https://www.nature.com/news/economics-manufacture-renewables-to-build-energy-security-1.15847
https://qz.com/india/1283299/in-the-race-to-build-massive-solar-power-projects-india-is-poised-to-beat-china/
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No the Dutch government has a plan to meat the Paris goals. They have to spend 900 billion, increase taxes on energy, basically ban all cars that run on gas and litter the landscape with wind turbines and even doing all that they won't meet the Paris goals.
again, you have a history of telling lies
not saying that to insult you (a happy byproduct), but to explain why people aren't going to just take your word for something without references
A Dutch expert on climate change had calculated it would cost more actually. This is sort of the mid-end.
Low end estimates range from 250 - 500 billion Euro, mid end from 750 - 900 billion Euro and there's a group that's convinced it's over 1000 billion Euro.
No one can be 100% sure but it is very expensive and government programs always cost more than planned.
Here's a printed magazine cover with the 1000 miljard = 1000 billion figure
(https://klimaatverandering.files.wordpress.com/2018/12/elsevier_voorpagina_20181124.png)
The problem is that all homes need to stop using natural gas as an energy source. Everyone needs to buy a heat pump and have their houses changed to accomodate floor heating.
We are a very small country so there's not much we can do to reduce our CO2 emissions and keep our economy running at the same time.
So banning cars that run on gas and having people install heat pumps seems like the only solution to people that think climate change must be dealt with no matter the cost.
But with things like hospitals closing and corporations seemingly getting away with pollution it's a hard sell. So the biggest climate sceptic party is currently polling in second place.
Then again the idea is that if we become climate neutral other countries will look at us for technology and guidance. As we're currently doing when it comes to managing water.
But the average household already had their energy bill go up 350 euro this year partly because of new taxes on energy.
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Let's just agree to disagree.
Where you see high school students spontaneously protesting to fight for their future, I see an agenda-driven exploitation of teenagers by hard left political activists. We might both be right depending on the context.
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No the Dutch government has a plan to meat the Paris goals. They have to spend 900 billion, increase taxes on energy, basically ban all cars that run on gas and litter the landscape with wind turbines and even doing all that they won't meet the Paris goals.
again, you have a history of telling lies
not saying that to insult you (a happy byproduct), but to explain why people aren't going to just take your word for something without references
Here's a printed magazine cover with the 1000 miljard = 1000 billion figure
(https://klimaatverandering.files.wordpress.com/2018/12/elsevier_voorpagina_20181124.png)
:piss2
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fighting climate change can be turned into a racket just like anything else. the people will get screwed and somehow, someway billionaires and corporations will benefit. :maf
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I'm in favor of hitting more politicians in the face with eggs. That kid was onto something.
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What do you you think of this reaction piece to the "Climate optimist" Marcel Croks article you post the cover of with no context to support your post Nintex?
https://klimaatverandering.wordpress.com/2018/12/01/reactie-op-marcel-croks-stuk-in-elsevier-klimaatbeleid-is-haalbaar-betaalbaar-en-zinvol/
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Where you see high school students spontaneously protesting to fight for their future, I see an agenda-driven exploitation of teenagers by hard left political activists. We might both be right depending on the context.
honestly mate were you never a teenager?
like i said above, protesting was great fun. you get to feel part of something and go on a bit of a counter culture adventure. there's a buzz of skirting the social boundaries while never really being in any danger, like playing a game with noclip on.
it doesn't have to be some nefarious machiavellian leftist plot sprung up to pollute the impressionable. it's like a march against animal cruelty or the concept of poverty; a completely base line "good" cause that 95% of teenagers will be into anyway and would jump at the chance to put on some glitter make up, whip up a placard in the arts dept and take a day off school to go dancing through the streets.
you're as far off the mark as premium who thinks it's some outburst of apocalyptic desperation.
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don't call him mate, lad
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Merkel already said she suspected these sons of bitches kids are part of some Russian op. I don't need any more evidence than that. Bin them.
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Where you see high school students spontaneously protesting to fight for their future, I see an agenda-driven exploitation of teenagers by hard left political activists. We might both be right depending on the context.
honestly mate were you never a teenager?
like i said above, protesting was great fun. you get to feel part of something and go on a bit of a counter culture adventure. there's a buzz of skirting the social boundaries while never really being in any danger, like playing a game with noclip on.
it doesn't have to be some nefarious machiavellian leftist plot sprung up to pollute the impressionable. it's like a march against animal cruelty or the concept of poverty; a completely base line "good" cause that 95% of teenagers will be into anyway and would jump at the chance to put on some glitter make up, whip up a placard in the arts dept and take a day off school to go dancing through the streets.
you're as far off the mark as premium who thinks it's some outburst of apocalyptic desperation.
I think I was a teenager once. It's a bit hard to remember back that far. I remember lots of heavy metal, rugby, cricket, football and doing dumb shit. No protests though; the 90s in Queensland just weren't that type of time.
I don't have a problem with the kids here though. Different times. I actually agree with you that this is something that would appeal to teenagers these days and support their right to protest.
However, to think this was a spontaneous movement driven solely by kids naive.
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Let's just agree to disagree.
Where you see high school students spontaneously protesting to fight for their future, I see an agenda-driven exploitation of teenagers by hard left political activists. We might both be right depending on the context.
I never said this. Please read what I actually write if you're going to bother to respond.
You're the one throwing around scary terms about "exploitation," "taken advantage of," "used as pawns," "indoctrinated" etc. etc. based on literally nothing other than your own vague discomfort.
I don't have a problem with the kids here though.
You called them hypocrites for going to air conditioned schools!
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Here's a printed magazine cover with the 1000 miljard = 1000 billion figure
https://klimaatverandering.files.wordpress.com/2018/12/elsevier_voorpagina_20181124.png
The image of that magazine cover is hosted on a blog explaining why it's dishonest. Come on.
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Climate change is real but in our country they had calculated that to reduce the temperate increase by 0.00007 C degrees we had to spend about 900 billion.
"we" ??? Are you referencing the IPCC report estimating a total requirement of ~900 billion annually in "energy related investments" to limit warming to 1.5c above industrial levels by 2050?
No the Dutch government has a plan to meat the Paris goals. They have to spend 900 billion, increase taxes on energy, basically ban all cars that run on gas and litter the landscape with wind turbines and even doing all that they won't meet the Paris goals.
The flow chart is simple
Good person(TM)
1) You have to believe in climate change
2) You have to believe that climate change is caused by humans
3) You have to believe that re-using your plastic bottles and not eating hamburgers will make any difference
4) You have to believe and encourage and support anyone who brings up climate change whenever
5) You have to believe that every 'recent' disaster from the Syrian war to the California forest fires is caused by climate change
6) You have to believe that the war against climate change is worth everything, including ruining your economy and civilization
7) You have to believe that fighting climate change is going to work even if Russia, China and other developing countries do nothing
(BONUS POINTS: AL GORE WAS RIGHT)
If you don't meet any of the above requirements you are a Nazi racist bigot.
A sort of religous zeal that has caused people who were pretty much with the climate people on points 1,2,3 to side with the climate sceptics
Easier way to fix climate change is to have all the best thinkers in the world. Currently employed to built trains for Siemens, planes for Lockheed, movies for Disney, drill for Rosneft, design phones for Apple and cars and rockets for Elon to come up with workable and practical solutions to handle this problem. If it's a man made process it can be reversed by man.
This has been going on for decades and suddenly we all have to 'panic'. I'm sorry, I'm not panicking about this because the media suffered from a stroke November 2016.
I have been on the internet a good minute, even lived to witness ToxicAdam not grasping how the basic greenhouse effect works for over a decade across multiple forums, you are consistently one of the most dedicatedly stupid fucking people I have ever come across.
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At this point, the only way to survive CC is to merge with AI, become machine hybrid, live on electricity.
https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/b1wwup/comment/eipqetw?st=JTDTX51B&sh=fd37350b
:doge
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i thought the temperature stopped going up after 1998
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wait you just linked to a comment on reddit with three upvotes
you've gone full benji never go full benji
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Let's just agree to disagree.
Where you see high school students spontaneously protesting to fight for their future, I see an agenda-driven exploitation of teenagers by hard left political activists. We might both be right depending on the context.
I never said this. Please read what I actually write if you're going to bother to respond.
You're the one throwing around scary terms about "exploitation," "taken advantage of," "used as pawns," "indoctrinated" etc. etc. based on literally nothing other than your own vague discomfort.
I don't have a problem with the kids here though.
You called them hypocrites for going to air conditioned schools!
Dial back on the snark mate.
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this thread is exactly what the internet needed
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Dial back on the snark mate.
or else what? you'll commit an atrocious hate crime against some minorities???
actually that would be bad I'll try to be nicer to you
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I think a lot of people underestimate how conservative the younger generation is. Part of it is probably wanting to be edgy, but it’s difficult to ignore the support for conservative ideas among children (especially boys) under 18. Being liberal is equated with being a pussy.
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Dial back on the snark mate.
or else what? you'll commit an atrocious hate crime against some minorities???
actually that would be bad I'll try to be nicer to you
:foodcourt
Looks like we're getting into a "Fuck you." "No, fuck you." war, and I kinda came here to get away from that.
Like I said, we can agree to disagree on this. Maybe I've misinterpreted some of your comments and maybe you've misinterpreted some of mine. I'll revisit the thread tonight after I get home from work and if I have more to add, I'll do it then. Discussions like this are probably best not done on mobile really.
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nah your post was just bad, and you dug in to defend it. understandable reaction but still wrong
should ask yourself why you got so hyperbolic and conspiratorial about some minor activism by kids. what's the underlying thing that bothered you so bad?
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I think a lot of people underestimate how conservative the younger generation is. Part of it is probably wanting to be edgy, but it’s difficult to ignore the support for conservative ideas among children (especially boys) under 18. Being liberal is equated with being a pussy.
They're not monolithic by any measure but I think it's also a trap to overestimate the online edgelord culture that's visible to us here on Al Gore's internet.
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My biggest problem with people that clearly don't bother doing anything against climate change or don't even believe in it like Nintex is that they call out people that do care and try as hypocrites for not always succeeding. It's fucking cynical.
Person 1: We got to do a,b,c,d,e to save the enviroment. This is really important. You're a huge dick if you don't. Does a,b,c,d.
Person 2: Lol you fucking hypocrite with a hidden agenda you just want to feel good about yourself you didn't even do e. Also it doesn't even matter if we do something cause people in X country don't do anything. That's why Im not going to bother at all. Doesn't do anything to help.
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Also saying its a religion would make sense if it wasn't science, which is the opposite of religion.
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personal action doesn't even matter, the thing that will mitigate climate change is investment in green technologies until they outperform the carbon ones for most uses. I'm not rich so I can't do that, I need to vote for somebody who will spend government money on that and shame all my friends until they do, too.
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personal action doesn't even matter, the thing that will mitigate climate change is investment in green technologies until they outperform the carbon ones for most uses. I'm not rich so I can't do that, I need to vote for somebody who will spend government money on that and shame all my friends until they do, too.
Right. Ethical consumerism won't solve the problem but maybe has some value keeping it at the front of people's minds and staving off a sense of frustration and hopelessness.
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nah your post was just bad, and you dug in to defend it. understandable reaction but still wrong
should ask yourself why you got so hyperbolic and conspiratorial about some minor activism by kids. what's the underlying thing that bothered you so bad?
Ok. You do you mate.
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Actually I don't believe that, to a large degree we really fo vote with our wallets. If you switch to buy green more products will come.
I know many don't buy into this but 30 years ago my dad was one of the first ones to open an eco food shop where he lives, now this food is so mainstream every shop has eco isles.
It also sends a message to politicians and gives them a mandate to makes big changes. Politicians won't tackle green issues if they can't point to support from a broad majority.
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Reusing a plastic bottle isn't going to make much of a difference if China builts a coal plant every month.
FACT CHECK: Xi Jinping Thought on Socialism with Chinese Characteristics for a New Era®'s 9th point is "Coexist with Nature": "We must establish and practise the philosophy that lucid waters and lush mountains are invaluable assets, uphold the basic national policy for energy conservation and environmental protection, treat the ecological environment as we treat life, coordinate the systematic management of mountains, waters, forests, fields, lakes, and prairies... build a beautiful China, create a good production and living environment for the people, and contribute to global ecological safety."
edit: I just checked the Environmental Defense Fund's page on China and it includes a section called "A giant leap forward" :-\
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Ok. You do you mate.
buddy your posts were bad and I love ya too much to lie to you
also you liked nintex's posts about how terrible environmentalists are and how important it is to do nothing about climate change, so at this point you've pretty much blown your cover of being Deeply Concerned About The Children. why you felt the need to do that instead of saying what you really think is maybe something to ruminate on
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Firstly, trying to only consume clean increases living costs significantly, to the point that it is impossible for many people with (below) average income.
If you can't afford it you can't afford it.
If you can but you won't its on you.
I know people that earn double or triple what I do and claim to care about the environment but won't buy eco meat because its "too expensive".
A lot depends on what you want to do with your money and involves a lot of excuses in western society. Like "I can't afford good food" because I "need to have" this holiday, game , phone, pants etc.
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I love ya too much to lie to you
this effortless construction Pinnochio's Paradox :lawd
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There's an anecdote from the 90's where Bill Clinton tells Jiang Zemin something along the lines of "I hope you guys find a better way to develop your economy than the way we did it, or the world is fucked."
ha ha ha
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As a species we will always need to consume in order to thrive, like everything else in the universe. Zero impact is impossible, everything is circular.
That said the earth is the only liveable planet we know and we are the only species with the mental capacity to try to manage it somewhat, and we should in order to keep it in the the beat shape possible.
We're very far off if ever in colonizing planets or mining asteroids for metals so best to focus on keeping our back yard liveable. Maybe in a few hundred years we will be able to upload are collective consciousness into an advanced ai and hurl it into space as our planet is dying :doge but for now this is it.
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Ok. You do you mate.
buddy your posts were bad and I love ya too much to lie to you
also you liked nintex's posts about how terrible environmentalists are and how important it is to do nothing about climate change, so at this point you've pretty much blown your cover of being Deeply Concerned About The Children. why you felt the need to do that instead of saying what you really think is maybe something to ruminate on
The sum total of your contribution to the discussion has been to shit on people offering their opinion. Care to actually share yours?
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Yeah. Climate change is bad, coordinated action is needed to mitigate it, professional climate denialists shouldn't be relied on for accurate information, and some kids doing a protest for a popular cause is totally fine.
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Ok, so we're 100% in agreeance, except that I think that the kids have been exploited by organised political activists who have manipulated kids to achieve their own agenda.
You don't agree. Ok, that's fine. Is there any need to be an ass about it?
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go bitch about your hurt feelings somewhere else, nobody cares
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Who manipulated all these kids worldwide?
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except you have no evidence for that, you refused to address people's actual criticism and instead put words in their mouth ("OH YOU THINK IT'S ALL SPONTANEOUS AND INNOCENT!?"), you co-signed nintex's posts that are opposed to what you now claim to believe in, and honing in on the alleged ulterior motives of the protest rather than the issue itself is already a red flag
if you're gonna act disingenuous you're gonna get sassed and it's not the end of the dang world
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:era
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like if your stance is "i'll pretend to believe whatever if you'll stop being mean to me" i guess that's an ethos, but be up front about it
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My stance is pretty fucking easy to follow you simpleton. If it's too complex, go get a responsible adult to explain it to you.
I guess I failed at step 4 of the Good Person (TM) test.
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"Of course I think climate change is real and an important issue! But if anyone suggests doing anything about it I'll accuse them of being the unwitting puppets of a shadowy conspiracy."
:derp
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(https://www.abc.net.au/cm/lb/6680636/data/fact-check-solar-coverage-map-data.jpg)
The fact that GERMANY, where it's fucking overcast like half the time has more solar panels than Australia is an indictment of our country.
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Australia could run off solar no probz
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Mandark lets assume there is a shadow conspiracy that claims wanting to preserve the environment, provide healthy food and fresh air.
But what do they really want?
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Mandark lets assume there is a shadow conspiracy that claims wanting to preserve the environment, provide healthy food and fresh air.
But what do they really want?
that's easy
https://larouchepac.com/20181020/global-warming-population-reduction-not-science
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Ok, so we're 100% in agreeance, except that I think that the kids have been exploited by organised political activists who have manipulated kids to achieve their own agenda.
You don't agree. Ok, that's fine. Is there any need to be an ass about it?
Well, define "exploit."
Activists who care about the environment have an agenda. It more-or-less perfectly overlaps with the kids who are worried about their future environment.
Is that called "exploiting" or is it called cooperation, collaboration, or uniting?
In contrast, I'd argue that MOST TIMES the political Left can rarely even agree on the right way to discuss things, let alone actually unify behind anything effectively.
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Mandark lets assume there is a shadow conspiracy that claims wanting to preserve the environment, provide healthy food and fresh air.
But what do they really want?
that's easy
https://larouchepac.com/20181020/global-warming-population-reduction-not-science
Dang
Edit: i havent seen it but I guess economic growth relies on growing population?
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Ok, so we're 100% in agreeance, except that I think that the kids have been exploited by organised political activists who have manipulated kids to achieve their own agenda.
You don't agree. Ok, that's fine. Is there any need to be an ass about it?
marrec is an abrasive dumbass who gets off on feeling morally and intellectually superior (when he’s neither) on a forum that has five active users and makes less than $2 per day on ad money. He’s too pathetic to worry about, friendo.
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Mandark lets assume there is a shadow conspiracy that claims wanting to preserve the environment, provide healthy food and fresh air.
But what do they really want?
Why is it always presented as a false dilemma?
Those things are already occurring in the world. You can go back to any point in time in history until now and the strides Western society has made has been significant and keeps increasing at a greater rate.
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You can't say "it has happened in the past so it will again"
That's not how history works.
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You mean parents are telling their children what to believe in
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Lol what ads?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jFqhjaGh30
jfc who is this potato chud?
yes, children and for the most part teenagers and adults too, lack proper critical thinking skills and will buy into your agenda if you present it well. in this case, an agenda that is pretty uncontroversial unless you're an ignorant tool. so terrible, mobilising children to have some feelings in an innocuous protest.
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imagine being afraid of a bogeyman in 2019.
It’s the same scam as religion: indoctrinate the kids, live the way we decide and send us your money so we can keep doing the Lords work. Meanwhile you get the false sense of “living more righteous” than your neighbor.
Imagine being a climate change denier and still doubling down on it in 2019.
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Climate change is real but in our country they had calculated that to reduce the temperate increase by 0.00007 C degrees we had to spend about 900 billion.
"we" ??? Are you referencing the IPCC report estimating a total requirement of ~900 billion annually in "energy related investments" to limit warming to 1.5c above industrial levels by 2050?
No the Dutch government has a plan to meat the Paris goals. They have to spend 900 billion, increase taxes on energy, basically ban all cars that run on gas and litter the landscape with wind turbines and even doing all that they won't meet the Paris goals.
The flow chart is simple
Good person(TM)
1) You have to believe in climate change
2) You have to believe that climate change is caused by humans
3) You have to believe that re-using your plastic bottles and not eating hamburgers will make any difference
4) You have to believe and encourage and support anyone who brings up climate change whenever
5) You have to believe that every 'recent' disaster from the Syrian war to the California forest fires is caused by climate change
6) You have to believe that the war against climate change is worth everything, including ruining your economy and civilization
7) You have to believe that fighting climate change is going to work even if Russia, China and other developing countries do nothing
(BONUS POINTS: AL GORE WAS RIGHT)
If you don't meet any of the above requirements you are a Nazi racist bigot.
A sort of religous zeal that has caused people who were pretty much with the climate people on points 1,2,3 to side with the climate sceptics
Easier way to fix climate change is to have all the best thinkers in the world. Currently employed to built trains for Siemens, planes for Lockheed, movies for Disney, drill for Rosneft, design phones for Apple and cars and rockets for Elon to come up with workable and practical solutions to handle this problem. If it's a man made process it can be reversed by man.
This has been going on for decades and suddenly we all have to 'panic'. I'm sorry, I'm not panicking about this because the media suffered from a stroke November 2016.
lighting that much straw on fire isn't helping the environment :doge
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Imagine being a climate change denier and still doubling down on it in 2019.
What am I denying? Man contributes to climate change, but not to a degree that we need to partake in drastic changes in policy. Black carbon is a far greater threat than any other GHG and we should be doing more about it.
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"I'm not a denier, I just reject the whole of the entire scientific consensus around CO2's level of harm as a GHG and about how our changes have both already affected and will continue to affect the environment and subsequent economic and societal health unless we make drastic changes as a species."
Cool semantics game bro.
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Actually I don't believe that, to a large degree we really fo vote with our wallets. If you switch to buy green more products will come.
I know many don't buy into this but 30 years ago my dad was one of the first ones to open an eco food shop where he lives, now this food is so mainstream every shop has eco isles.
It also sends a message to politicians and gives them a mandate to makes big changes. Politicians won't tackle green issues if they can't point to support from a broad majority.
All of us on this forum could forgo civilization and go live in the forest off roots and berries and nothing is going to change in time to mitigate the looming threat. The change has to be much, much bigger, and that requires centralized policy and mobilization.
Change has to occur on a much more massive scale than the scattershot glacial movement that consumer preference can drive in the face of all the forces only government has the power to really alleviate counter-pressure from.
Consumer pressure can have a role in the way Mandark speaks, but without massive US government intervention(and the hope re-participation along with enormous American economic shifts can shock the international community to follow suit somewhat) it is ultimately a fools errand IMO.
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What am I denying? Man contributes to climate change, but not to a degree that we need to partake in drastic changes in policy. Black carbon is a far greater threat than any other GHG and we should be doing more about it.
I find it interesting that you've changed several of your old beliefs on this topic, tacitly admitting in each case that the mainstream science was right and you were wrong, but still hold on to the idea that climate science/activism is a "scam."
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It can be both. There can be environmental activists and science that are scams, yet other related science or activism behind it be sound or earnest. It doesn't have to be an all/nothing scenario.
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OH NO POOH, YOU'RE EATING PURE CENTRISM