THE BORE
General => Video Game Bored => Topic started by: Stoney Mason on June 10, 2019, 01:47:21 PM
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I've decided to waste my time and start playing one of the billions of digital card games that exist. Was just curious to see what other people were playing in the genre and their thoughts on it.
While I'm still dabbling and deciding what I want to play, I know what I'm not going to play which is Hearthstone or Magic the Gathering. I don't like the economic model of Hearthstone and while I respect Magic the Gathering, I want to play something designed from the ground up for a digital format.
The ones I'm currently considering are Eternal, Elder Scrolls Legends, and Gwent. All seem to have decent to fair f2p models or mechanics that interest me. I've played a (very) little of all three in the past although I'm eventually going to pick just one to focus on.
Feel free to give me your experience with those or any others you play that I may not be aware of.
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while I respect Magic the Gathering, I want to play something designed from the ground up for a digital format.
...So play Magic: the Gathering: Arena. (https://magic.wizards.com/en/mtgarena) Which is Standard but made for the digital age.
The ones I'm currently considering are Eternal,
Magic: the Gathering: Hearthstone-ized for mobile like... Magic: the Gathering: Arena...
Elder Scrolls Legends,
lol. No. Next.
and Gwent.
Awesome before the redesign (well, pre-Christmas update anyway), since then? Kinda dying, but still good/ok. I'd recommend it, but I wouldn't necessarily recommend it as your "daily driver."
...Just play Gwent or Magic: Arena. Seriously, dude. I mean, barring that Eternal is okay, and Pokemon Trading Card Game Online is fucking good for what it does (way more generous than Magic if you buy the paper product in addition) but those two are the main ones you'd probably want to play/keep playing.
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Yu-Gi-Oh! Duel Links is awesome casual you-gay-oh gameplay, out for iOS, Android, Chrome OS and Steam on Windows (https://store.steampowered.com/app/601510/YuGiOh_Duel_Links/). 8)
(https://i.imgur.com/rtctQul.gif)
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Nothing comes really close to MTG when it comes to gameplay depth and amount of content tho.
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I really enjoyed Elder Scrolls Legends for a month or two.
Mtg: Arena is also a great alternative. Give it a try before you reject it.
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Eternal is gud, was designed by pro magic players as a digital only product from the ground up
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Thx for the feedback
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Just FYI Stoney, they've been designing newer Magic cards with online in mind. In maybe 12 months all the cards available in Arena will fall into this category. It'll never be a game built with online in mind, but the gap is going to narrow considerably in the next few years.
Until then I'd second Eternal.
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yeah, eternal sounds ok
mtg will always be the best tho
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yeah, play MTG Arena. No point avoiding the champ
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hearthstone and mtg are the only tcg's worth keeping up with because the rest are likely to die.
MaRO stepping over the competition like
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6l_9reaLz0
edit: idk enough about eternal tbh
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Eternal is just Magic with a few changes and digital counters. :lol
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hearthstone and mtg are the only tcg's worth keeping up with because the rest are likely to die.
I honestly 100% don't care about that. I'm mean I'm not going to start playing a game that I can't find a match in, but I don't care about investing in some digital thing that I'm gonna play until I die.
If the game I play dies, that's okay with me. I'm the kind of person that tends to take the enjoyment I had versus having a need to invest in the one with the most longevity. Hearthstone can be here until the day I die. I'm not playing that game any more. No offense to those that like it but I think that game is a complete screwjob and I don't want to participate in that.
That being said, while I have my reservations about it for a few different reasons, I'll add Magic:Arena to my try list and give it a fair shot since so many here seem to like it.
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Hearthstone is trash tier for a long time now and I say this as someone who has played it since Beta (but quit 1-2 years ago).
It's probably my most played game ever but it got to such a ridiculous point where it was all about rng, like half the cards in every deck had random effects like
-summon random minion
-cast random spell
-draw random spell from your opponents class
Etc
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All this talk while avoiding the elephant in the room: Magic Online.
You haven't lived until you've spent thousands on a set of digital objects you use to enter paid tournaments while the game intermittently crashes at crucial moments :lawd
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I have. :fbm
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All this talk while avoiding the elephant in the room: Magic Online.
You haven't lived until you've spent thousands on a set of digital objects you use to enter paid tournaments while the game intermittently crashes at crucial moments :lawd
breh I've made my living off that shit for like 8 1/2 years now (obvs looking for new work with Arena eating us alive tho)
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sheesh. i read that cfb article last year that basically paraphrased the puremtgo reports over the last two years since treasure chests started devaluing things, with arena more recently starting the massacre.
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Gwent's getting a new faction in it's expansion. Maybe now is the time to jump back in. :doge
https://youtu.be/acYAYUAM-80
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Just play Pokemon TCG on GBC. All you need.
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Triple Triad is all the card game I need.
:rejoice
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Just play Pokemon TCG on GBC. All you need.
What about the superior sequel?
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IDK never played it since there wasn't a translation
But I found this one that is the best you'll get, so I'll put it on my flashcard and try it out
https://www.romhacking.net/translations/1736/
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I'm a Hearthstone addict, but I found Elder Scrolls Legends to be the best of 'the rest'.
It strikes the right balance of game mechanics, art, card design, cost.
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Just play Pokemon TCG on GBC. All you need.
What about the superior sequel?
Wasn't released in the west. But there's a fan translation. I've got the ROM, but Demi has you, apparently.
Anyway... seriously: Magic: Arena, Gwent, or Eternal (with Pokemon Trading Card Game Online an honorable mention) are all you need, Stoney.
I'm a Hearthstone addict, but I found Elder Scrolls Legends to be the best of 'the rest'.
It strikes the right balance of game mechanics, art, card design, cost.
EW. Instead of RNG fest, you now throw in RNG + 2 Lanes as a fest. EW.
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You try Arena Stoney? Logged in for the first time in a while the other day (usually play paper) and it is feeling a lot more polished, and War of the Spark is a really interesting cool set packed with value that will set you up for building some decent decks nice and quick after running some drafts/sealed events. The deck builder is still a little janky, and could give you more/better options for viewing cards in your pool/deck you're building but it's easily useable.
They're also about to announce a new eternal-ish format for use specifically on MTG Arena, kind of like the current Modern format, (https://magic.wizards.com/en/game-info/gameplay/formats/modern) but only going back to cards from the Ixalan set or something (light on details, but it will be announced officially soon). This means the cards you get for use in the Standard constructed format (https://magic.wizards.com/en/content/standard-formats-magic-gathering) will be useable in Arena Eternal even after they rotate from Standard.
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Pro tip, the following redeemable codes will give you some free booster packs (3 each, IIRC):
PlayRavnica
PlayAllegiance
PlayWarSpark
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Pro tip, the following redeemable codes will give you some free booster packs (3 each, IIRC):
PlayRavnica
PlayAllegiance
PlayWarSpark
There's more than those three (https://mtg.gamepedia.com/Magic:_The_Gathering_Arena#Promotional_code).
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:pika
edit: meh, everything else is dumb artstyle shite.
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:pika
edit: meh, everything else is dumb artstyle shite.
Hating Opt alt-art. :bolo
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hear me out on this... but... I have a feeling one of the many auto-chess variants that are all about to land over the next week might scratch that itch, because the underlying mechanics (outside of the deck building aspect) are extremely similar, and have their roots in Poker
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TCG nerds, I got a bunch of ideas all at once for some buzzword soup type shit. ("It's like Gwent + Blockchain + Eye of Judgment + ...the Game Boy Printer of all things?")
https://i.imgur.com/8wIxr2f.png
What problems would this theoretical product run into? It would be playable fully digitally or in a kind of "AR mode" with the physical cards.
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1) Why the hell would you want to play AR mode when there's a digital mode already? Either make the physical it's own thing or don't bother.
2) Blockchain means someone will figure out a way to
2.5a) steal the digital cards binder
2.5b) Figure out a way to make sure that doesn't happen
Etc.
It's a mess. And I still have no idea where "Gwent" comes in beyond you using it as a brand for card-games, where you could just say "it's a card game with block chain and AR mode and the ability to print the cards a la proxies."
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Sorry, every time I read "crypto" or "blockchain" my brain switches off.
But if you ever become rich, I'll take 10% for my very helpful feedback, thanks :heart
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Really, though, you need the GAME design before even worrying about the FEATURE design. Do you have card game already made for this? How does it play physically (or digitally, I guess) before worrying about the trading card game aspects of it.
Doesn't really matter if the game isn't fun to play and dies on the vine.
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I feel like as a kid, AR would seem much cooler.
I guess my thinking is a children's TCG.
And yeah obviously the game design itself would come first. I've taken stabs at it ever since I was a teen and getting that balance of fun, strategy, and randomness right is very difficult.
Anyways just some ideas I thought were cool~
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I feel like as a kid, AR would seem much cooler.
I guess my thinking is a children's TCG.
And yeah obviously the game design itself would come first. I've taken stabs at it ever since I was a teen and getting that balance of fun, strategy, and randomness right is very difficult.
Anyways just some ideas I thought were cool~
Personally, I haven't played Eye of Judgement, but it required too much shit (a camera, the console, cards) to be enjoyable for most folks.
You might want to read through these essays (http://gameplaywright.net/whitebox/) (I need to finish doing that myself) on designing a board game/TCG and then worry about the trading features if the idea (the actual game) is a decent design.
Think of it this way: While Richard Garfield had the idea of trading cards in mind (IIRC), the base game design of Magic was done by Playtesters "trading" (giving cards to each other) to build decks and see what the card limit/balance/etc was before even worrying about the printing costs.
(Though IIRC the play-tests DID have limits, but the play-testers mostly ignored those via said trading)
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Really, though, if you have the cards and design: Post them up here and/or make them available on Tabletop Simulator and we can play it.
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All I have right now is a loose set of design goals and preliminary card concepts. :P
And I'm so unfocused who knows if I'll ever get around to it and finish it.
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The Bire CCG or bust.
I agree with timu, I guess the issue with the basic concept is that it would require a lot of hardware, which would be redundant in some way.
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All I have right now is a loose set of design goals and preliminary card concepts. :P
And I'm so unfocused who knows if I'll ever get around to it and finish it.
Release that shit. That certainly didn't stop some folks from making preliminary docs and putting them on Google Drive for folks to test/play.
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TCG nerds, I got a bunch of ideas all at once for some buzzword soup type shit. ("It's like Gwent + Blockchain + Eye of Judgment + ...the Game Boy Printer of all things?")
https://i.imgur.com/8wIxr2f.png
What problems would this theoretical product run into? It would be playable fully digitally or in a kind of "AR mode" with the physical cards.
Coming at this strictly from a Magic: the Gathering background, it's not a great idea to artificially constrict the supply of cards that can become available.
In that game there are certain cards that can just never be reprinted (functionally or literally) ever again and that means playing with them grows more and more impossible.
There are other cards that aren't reprinted on a frequent enough basis so playing with them becomes its own mini stock market where you have to buy low when they do get reprinted or take a bath later on when you do want to play with them. And if a new deck comes along and makes a previously undesirable card desirable again then the market just breaks for months / years.
Obviously the Yu-Gi-Oh route of "actually these cards aren't valuable" (as opposed to Magic: the Gathering's "actually these cards aren't valuable ;)") isn't a great model for anyone but players and Konami and it sounds like you want a pie where more people get a slice.
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BTW, part of the reason those cards that can never be reprinted can't be reprinted is because doing so would require that Wizards of the Coast admit Magic cards have an economic value which means that they have to open themselves up to a lot of gambling legislation with their packaged product that contain randomized selections of cards.
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Konami reprints YGO cards all the time. :thinking Whole sets are devoted to it almost every other year it seems like.
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It would cause riots but there may be some sense to the Pokemon model of "Oh you bought those cards more than two years ago? Sorry, no can play!"
YGO's problem has been just sheer power creep, and Konami getting too fast and loose in recent years with altering the core ruleset to give the next anime a new gimmick to focus on.
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Coming at this strictly from a Magic: the Gathering background, it's not a great idea to artificially constrict the supply of cards that can become available.
In that game there are certain cards that can just never be reprinted (functionally or literally) ever again and that means playing with them grows more and more impossible.
Hmm, I guess I would think about it in terms of editions. Certain runs of a certain card may be finite, but there is no limit to the amount of runs that would be possible. I also believe digital cards will stay in circulation better than physical ones, for a variety of reasons: they don't decay, they won't be bought purely to sit on a shelf, there's far less friction in trading cards digitally than in real life, etc.
I'm also excited by the printer idea. The concept is that the digital version is the 'real' one, but if you want something more tactile and local you could print your deck out and play against a friend IRL. And if you dropped your holofoil "Charizard" in the toilet, you could just print another copy.
Obviously the Yu-Gi-Oh route of "actually these cards aren't valuable" (as opposed to Magic: the Gathering's "actually these cards aren't valuable ;)") isn't a great model for anyone but players and Konami and it sounds like you want a pie where more people get a slice.
Not sure I understand the meta of both games enough to understand what you're saying about them here. :thinking
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All collectible card games have to at least pretend their cards aren't valuable or they're legally gambling (they're always gambling of course, but gambling law is particularly arbitrary).
Konami actually follows through with the logic and reprints their cards quite a bit. I imagine that makes them a fair bit of money as they're cutting out a secondary market. Players benefit from that as well too because cards are always pretty cheap. However there's no real secondary market on the scale of Magic's and YGO Finance isn't really a thing while MTG Finance is quite developed and far out.
Wizards of the Coast on the other hand pretty clearly just pretends that the cards aren't worth anything. An old joke is to say "such and such a card was upshifted to a higher rarity when it was reprinted because Wizards of the Coast doesn't care about the secondary market." They were the first on the scene and they had an acrimonious relationship with the secondary market at the start (the other part of the reason why certain cards can just never be reprinted again is that they made an official promise not to as a way of placating the secondary market after destroying the value of tons of bad cards with a reprint set).
I know tapping into blockchain has multiple uses but to me it says you want something that's decentralized and potentially lucrative to people who have collections and not just yourself / your publisher. That's why I mentioned it.
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All collectible card games have to at least pretend their cards aren't valuable or they're legally gambling (they're always gambling of course, but gambling law is particularly arbitrary).
Not Living Card Games. :sunglasses :nerd :FFGPrintsMoney
Wizards of the Coast on the other hand pretty clearly just pretends that the cards aren't worth anything. An old joke is to say "such and such a card was upshifted to a higher rarity when it was reprinted because Wizards of the Coast doesn't care about the secondary market." They were the first on the scene and they had an acrimonious relationship with the secondary market at the start (the other part of the reason why certain cards can just never be reprinted again is that they made an official promise not to as a way of placating the secondary market after destroying the value of tons of bad cards with a reprint set).
Reserved list is fucking dumb because it stops players from being able to get into Legacy. There's a reason Chinese publishing houses are making bank off people proxying shit like Black Lotuses to play casually over paying $10,000+ for a legit copy.
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the other part of the reason why certain cards can just never be reprinted again is that they made an official promise not to as a way of placating the secondary market after destroying the value of tons of bad cards with a reprint set
Wait
What?
That sounds really, really dumb. Also a good case for why you should never capitulate to angry nerds.
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I'm not seeing a legal case for why Wizards can't do reprints and Konami can. :thinking
Aside from Wizards stupidly pinky promising not to (which obviously opens them up to lawsuits if they shift gears.)
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I'm not seeing a legal case for why Wizards can't do reprints and Konami can. :thinking
Aside from Wizards stupidly pinky promising not to (which obviously opens them up to lawsuits if they shift gears.)
That's exactly why they won't.
https://mtg.gamepedia.com/Reserved_List
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Promissory estoppel is the above board reason why they can't reprint the cards on the Reserved List. However in court they could demonstrate that printing more of those cards would actually benefit collectors (in certain respects), but doing so would force them to admit that the cards have monetary value and that they watch / understand the secondary market and poof, kayfabe is broken, regulators come knocking, et cetera.
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OK so it's not an issue with TCG's, it's with Wizard making short-sighted promises. Gotcha. :lol
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You try Arena Stoney?
Sorry. Been busy lately and I haven't checked the thread. Yes I did. It's very good. Very clean look to it. Very solid client. And the gameplay of course is very solid indeed. I still prefer Eternal for a few reasons (being able to play on mobile and console platforms is very nice and it just has some very user friendly and newb friendly features that I appreciate) and that will be my main game but Arena will probably be my second one as I decided to play two of them. I understand why you guys like it and for hardcore players especially I understand the appeal of it with its depth.
Elder Scrolls is cool and I like the bit where you get to play cards after you take damage at set intervals but I find the moment to moment play of the other games slightly more interesting.
Never got around to Gwent. When I get more free time I'll eventually give it a try.
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I know its not a card game but DOTA Underlords is out on mobile as well and is a pretty fun mobile game ( although matches take quite long )
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I know its not a card game but DOTA Underlords is out on mobile as well and is a pretty fun mobile game ( although matches take quite long )
...Then why are you posting it in a thread wanting card game recommendations? :confused
@Stoney: If you REALLY want to play Magic: Arena on mobile (right now: Call 1-800-...) get Google Remote Desktop or whatever, there's numerous nerds that have done that via Remote Desktop on the /r/MagicArena subreddit.
That said: Yes, Eternal is VERY good for what it's doing (Magic: the Gathering clones) and I vastly prefer it over the shoplifting that Hex tried to do.
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I know its not a card game but DOTA Underlords is out on mobile as well and is a pretty fun mobile game ( although matches take quite long )
...Then why are you posting it in a thread wanting card game recommendations? :confused
Like I said above:
hear me out on this... but... I have a feeling one of the many auto-chess variants that are all about to land over the next week might scratch that itch, because the underlying mechanics (outside of the deck building aspect) are extremely similar, and have their roots in Poker
despite the trappings, at its heart its similar to mahjong or poker, and its about making a strategy with the cards (units) you're dealt, when to bail, when to double down, when to go all in, when to change strategy, etc
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...Except it's still not a card game. :kermit Next.
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OK so it's not an issue with TCG's, it's with Wizard making short-sighted promises. Gotcha. :lol
Not really, at least I disagree. At the time, this decision arguably saved Magic. Their primary goal was creating a collectible that wasn't a fad and kept making them money f o r e v e r. The game was an avenue to generate continual interest in collecting the cardboard. The game being good, collecting being good and the secondary market being strong are the reasons it's still on top. People complain about investment, but the secondary market and investors are the reason every card ever made is stockpiled and readily available wherever you are. It's also the reason why buying magic staples is generally fine even when expensive; they're easy to resell and you might even make a little in the long run.
MTG has an extremely strong finance/secondary market, they knocked their initial goal out of the park and tbh i think most people involved have benefited overall. They're not perfect by any means, but this decision was the beginning of that faith in Magic as a collectible. I also think most people agree it's better for the game that the reserved list is more or less inaccessible to the majority of players. Even dual lands. It's a fine flex to own them, but there's no requirement to own them, and having them inaccessible bypasses a massive problem with them in that they are far and away the best duals, promoting too little downside in greedy manabases and so little else would be used if they were legal. It's also more and more common to have unofficial proxy leagues for the formats that use them (Legacy and Vintage).
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As for YGO and Pokemon, from the little I've played:
YGO; one format, all cards legal outside of a banned list. To create interest in new cards instead of having separated formats they simply print more powerful cards. I loved this game as a kid, but the secondary market is trash tier and generally, shops don't support organised play. No1curr.
Pokemon; draw lots of cards and gather resources in an initially refreshing but ultimately mundane repetitive game where your opponent is really only there to make you feel less alone. Play solitaire (or storm in mtg) instead.
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...Except it's still not a card game. :kermit Next.
I dunno, I think theres a reason Riot are grabbing Hearthstone streamers to pre-release hype TFT :trumps
The things that make poker fun are the same things that make autochess fun, which is why I think it scratches that itch; if the collection / deck building aspect is what you're looking for, its not comparable, but if frantically top-decking for that one card that completes your strat is, its worth a punt
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TCG nerds, I got a bunch of ideas all at once for some buzzword soup type shit. ("It's like Gwent + Blockchain + Eye of Judgment + ...the Game Boy Printer of all things?")
https://i.imgur.com/8wIxr2f.png
What problems would this theoretical product run into? It would be playable fully digitally or in a kind of "AR mode" with the physical cards.
https://godsunchained.com/
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Got busy towards the tail end of last year so wasn't able to put in the time to continue playing. But now I have more free time so I trying out this Legends of Runterra from Riot.
Wow the production values are great. I'm running it on my potato laptop I use in bed and it runs like a dream. The game also has some simple touches that I really appreciate that kind of simplify the game in some ways. I'm sure really hardcore people hate stuff like that but for someone like me who isn't as hardcore, it makes it much easier for me to keep my mind on what's going on.
That being said, I have no idea how good or bad the money model is.
https://playruneterra.com/en-us/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TezYh0Hg0D0
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Isn't it just
Animu Hearthstone but with League folks in it instead? That seemed to be the impression I was reading when the closed beta test started. Has that changed? Because I really hated the Hearthstone "oh I can jump over your blockers" system that had.
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Runeterra has blocking.
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Isn't it just Animu Hearthstone but with League folks in it instead? That seemed to be the impression I was reading when the closed beta test started. Has that changed? Because I really hated the Hearthstone "oh I can jump over your blockers" system that had.
Ive only played it a bit, but they've made some pretty smart choices I like
- its very 'back and forthy' - so first mover advantage is mostly negated. every time you play a card, the opponent can also play a card, even though it has a clear attack and defend phase
- it has hearthstones 'gain 1 mana per turn', but theres also a smaller temp mana pool that can hold up to 3 mana left over from previous turn, which is mostly for spells / instants
- almost all 'instants' are spells not characters (it might actualy be all, I haven't played enough to say that, but it looks like a design choice)
- you as a defender can choose which cards block what, or choose not to block at all if a units more useful on the field
its pretty fun. I've been having some success with an elise + lots of spiders deck, which plays like a hearthstone aggro hunter
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Played for a bit now I can definitely say I like Runterra. I really enjoy the counterplay between people.
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RISE FROM YO GRAVE.
Runeterra's mobile versions launched.
Yeah, that shit is legit. I'm enjoying it so far. It basically has a 6 creature limit (but patched now to where if you put in more, you choose the one to sacrifice) but the best part is that you have the ability to block creatures in combat. Something other card games (that aren't Gwent or Magic) fucking ignore because lol Hearthstone lol chasing.
So it's already miles ahead of most other card game bullshit.
I tried Cardfight Vanguard since that finally brought it's mobile port over to the US/English and it's good, but it's Yu-gi-oh! ish, so I'm not 100% on board with it. But it's apparently popular enough to have a niche fanbase in the US to where they print physical cards, so I might put a little more time into it. But I'm going to give Runeterra some time until I get a new phone to actually play Gwent on.
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TCG nerds, I got a bunch of ideas all at once for some buzzword soup type shit. ("It's like Gwent + Blockchain + Eye of Judgment + ...the Game Boy Printer of all things?")
https://i.imgur.com/8wIxr2f.png
What problems would this theoretical product run into? It would be playable fully digitally or in a kind of "AR mode" with the physical cards.
https://godsunchained.com/
The VCs are at it again :stahp
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At least Chris Clay is on it and no longer on Arena. :doge :kermit
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Been casually watching some Shadowverse, game looks kind of fun and more interesting than shitty Hearthstone, but also a bit complicated.
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It's just Animu Hearthstone, though. :doge Depending on what you hate Hearthstone for, it will pretty much be the same/some differences.
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Mostly I grew to hate how Hearthstone’s balance changes and new expansion meta play out every time. It’s by far one of the most frustrating card games I’ve played and have been wanting a replacement since I stopped playing a couple years back. I never had as much frustration with other card games, although to be fair I haven’t played all that many.
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TCG nerds, I got a bunch of ideas all at once for some buzzword soup type shit. ("It's like Gwent + Blockchain + Eye of Judgment + ...the Game Boy Printer of all things?")
https://i.imgur.com/8wIxr2f.png
What problems would this theoretical product run into? It would be playable fully digitally or in a kind of "AR mode" with the physical cards.
https://twitter.com/bopinion/status/1368582116984913922
:thinking
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That shit is so stupid
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"Some might see it as a new concept of property, which communist dreamers of centuries past would have found to their liking"
What...
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TCG nerds, I got a bunch of ideas all at once for some buzzword soup type shit. ("It's like Gwent + Blockchain + Eye of Judgment + ...the Game Boy Printer of all things?")
https://i.imgur.com/8wIxr2f.png
What problems would this theoretical product run into? It would be playable fully digitally or in a kind of "AR mode" with the physical cards.
https://twitter.com/bopinion/status/1368582116984913922
:thinking
Destroy the planet and make fat stacks. design the first blockchain TCG