THE BORE

General => Video Game Bored => Topic started by: Nintex on August 13, 2020, 03:07:30 PM

Title: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Nintex on August 13, 2020, 03:07:30 PM
https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/13/21366438/apple-fortnite-ios-app-store-violations-epic-payments (https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/13/21366438/apple-fortnite-ios-app-store-violations-epic-payments)

Quote
Apple has removed Epic Games’ battle royale Fortnite from the App Store after the developer on Thursday implemented its own in-app payment system that bypassed Apple’s standard 30 percent fee. The decision marks a significant escalation in the feud between Epic and one of the most popular mobile app stores in the US, and it comes at an especially fraught time for Apple as the iPhone maker navigates antitrust concerns over its operation of its mobile marketplace and the rules it imposes on certain developers.

Apple really hates gamers  :fbm

Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: MMaRsu on August 13, 2020, 03:08:20 PM
Hope Epic gets fucked
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Nintex on August 13, 2020, 03:44:13 PM
This will get Tim Cook the Presidential Medal of Freedom  :salute

It's war now

https://twitter.com/FortniteGame/status/1293984290326433792 (https://twitter.com/FortniteGame/status/1293984290326433792)
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: brawndolicious on August 13, 2020, 03:50:58 PM
The MTX wars, they have begun.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Pissy F Benny on August 13, 2020, 03:58:14 PM
Chairman Tim fighting the good fight.   


感谢您的服务

What we have here is the rarest of sights, a riotous posting in a nintex thread not furiously trying to debunk him :gladbron
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: thisismyusername on August 13, 2020, 04:07:43 PM
I hope Apple starves Epig out.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Nintex on August 13, 2020, 04:08:53 PM
https://twitter.com/JordanOloman/status/1294001944047095812 (https://twitter.com/JordanOloman/status/1294001944047095812)

I don't think Epic is quite ready for a fight with the Apple cult but we will find out  :teehee
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Mr Gilhaney on August 13, 2020, 04:12:54 PM
#fortnitelivesmatter
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on August 13, 2020, 04:16:21 PM
Lol apple gonna apple

Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: thetylerrob on August 13, 2020, 04:19:22 PM
#multibilliondollarmegacorplivesmatter
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Joe Molotov on August 13, 2020, 04:22:15 PM
lol forntie :zzz
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Lonewulfeus on August 13, 2020, 04:26:00 PM
Hate fortnite, but Apple sucks with its payment rules, get fucked Apple.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Trent Dole on August 13, 2020, 04:39:26 PM
Hate fortnite, but Apple sucks with its payment rules, get fucked Apple.
The most 'let them fight' situation ever?
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Lonewulfeus on August 13, 2020, 04:41:10 PM
Hate fortnite, but Apple sucks with its payment rules, get fucked Apple.
The most 'let them fight' situation ever?

Eh I’m fully on epics side here, Apple is one of the scummiest corporations in a world filled with scummy corporations.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: MMaRsu on August 13, 2020, 04:42:36 PM
Epic is suing Apple

Epic Games is suing Apple
Epic has filed a civil antitrust lawsuit following Apple’s removal of Fortnite from the App Store


https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/13/21367963/epic-fortnite-legal-complaint-apple-ios-app-store-removal-injunctive-relief
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Nintex on August 13, 2020, 04:49:40 PM
Yeah they made a video, hired lawyers... then released the software knowing it'd get pulled.

Fun to watch I guess.

Is the older version of the game still available for kiddos?
I believe they're planning an update in 2 weeks so if this isn't resolved by then the game will be fully unplayable on Apple devices
Epic clarified this, stating that the old game will continue to work but the new content won't be available.

Parents will certainly appreciate Epic Games and Apple taking the time to fight this out at this moment in time.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: MMaRsu on August 13, 2020, 04:53:19 PM
Fuck Epic trying to force this shit on Apple. Not that I'm a fan of Apple at all, but this is just a planned attack on Apple from Epic. Tim shitlord Sweeney at it again
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: EightBitNate on August 13, 2020, 04:57:09 PM
Fuck Epic trying to force this shit on Apple. Not that I'm a fan of Apple at all, but this is just a planned attack on Apple from Epic. Tim shitlord Sweeney at it again

Idk how you can look at the facts and think Apple is right. 30% cut is too big, Apple is stifling competition, and Apple should allow developers to circumvent the cut completely.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: MMaRsu on August 13, 2020, 05:05:01 PM
30% cut is too big compared to what exactly? Don't most if not all platform holders take a 30% cut?

How is Apple 'stifling' competition? Does Epic have their own mobile device store? What competition are we speaking of?

Why should they allow devs to circumvent the cut entirely if the app is hosted on Apple's servers and Epic has agreed to those conditions Apple has placed on their store?
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: EightBitNate on August 13, 2020, 05:22:56 PM
30% cut is too big compared to what exactly? Don't most if not all platform holders take a 30% cut?

How is Apple 'stifling' competition? Does Epic have their own mobile device store? What competition are we speaking of?

Why should they allow devs to circumvent the cut entirely if the app is hosted on Apple's servers and Epic has agreed to those conditions Apple has placed on their store?

30% for any digital store is too much IMO. Cut should be like 10% max IMO.

You do know there other apps on the App Store, right? Spotify is a prime example of Apple’s large cut stifling competition. Apple gets 100% of the revenue from a Apple Music sub and would get 30% of a Spotify sub. This means competing services only make 70% of what Apple makes, which can cause prices to go up and Apple’s competitor to suffer.

Apple doesn’t allow for an easy way to side load apps. Epic is using Apple’s App Store because they have to. If Epic could make a website that said “click here to download Fortnite for your iPhone”, they’d have done it ages ago.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Pissy F Benny on August 13, 2020, 05:25:24 PM
Who are the bad guys here, someone do my thinking for me pls :trumps
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Lonewulfeus on August 13, 2020, 05:33:49 PM
Apple, unless you’re a whiny steam baby
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Don Rumata on August 13, 2020, 05:41:52 PM
Who are the bad guys here, someone do my thinking for me pls :trumps
I dunno, but Epic gave me some free games, Apple gave me just a lot of headaches with their fucking tech support bullshit, back in the day.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Human Snorenado on August 13, 2020, 06:02:35 PM
Who are the bad guys here, someone do my thinking for me pls :trumps

Root for injuries to all parties, or better yet death by meteors
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Nintex on August 13, 2020, 06:31:17 PM
Despite Apple being assholes about this, I think this is part of a broader discussion on running platforms within platforms.
The game industry has quickly moved to launchers and their own platform infrastructure vs. using the platform of the hardware manufacturer (which was standard).
The companies Apple usually dealt with were unable to carry of the cost of creating their own platform or simply not interested or capable in doing so.

Epic can now do all these things because Fortnite was a huge success, but part of that success is thanks to Apple offering them this platform and creating this install base.
I feel it's a bit unfair to paint Apple as a 'bad guy' who scammed them with their 30%, which is simply the price Apple asks for getting access to their user base of millions.
It's not remotely the same as Apple denying Spotify the opportunity to advertise or release Apps on the Apple Watch to boost their own Apple music platform.

Apple also does a pretty decent job keeping the App Store clean and organized. Unlike for example Nintendo, the eShop is a mess beyond the first 10 games.
You also have to wonder if everyone having their own platform is good for the consumer and their privacy.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Great Rumbler on August 13, 2020, 06:49:23 PM
 :snore
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Mr Gilhaney on August 13, 2020, 07:00:58 PM
google also says fuck you

https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/13/21368079/fortnite-epic-android-banned-google-play-app-store-rule-violation?utm_campaign=theverge&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Tuckers Law on August 13, 2020, 07:09:44 PM
Tim Sweeney the kind of guy that would rant furiously about his taxes going to fix and replace roads and bridges.

That is if he paid taxes, of course.  It’s probably a fair bet that he pays nothing or next to.

I say let them both fight.  Fuck Temper tantrum-Tim Sweeney and also fuck apple.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Great Rumbler on August 13, 2020, 07:19:39 PM
Remember when Epic used to actually make games?
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: benjipwns on August 13, 2020, 07:23:02 PM
Remember when Epic used to actually make games?
By themselves or with the help of Digital Extremes, etc.? :teehee
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: pilonv1 on August 13, 2020, 07:29:57 PM
Remember when Epic used to actually make games?

They're really trying to outdo Valve aren't they
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: OnlyRegret on August 13, 2020, 09:52:18 PM
Who are the bad guys here, someone do my thinking for me pls :trumps

both
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Transhuman on August 14, 2020, 01:40:20 AM
30% of revenue from videogame costumes going to the platform owner is the exact sort of tyranny Orwell was thinking about when he wrote 1984.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: MMaRsu on August 14, 2020, 02:16:03 AM
Also been removed from Android
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Sho Nuff on August 14, 2020, 03:58:29 AM
I don't know who to root for here, in fact I think the best thing is to root for the heat death of the universe
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: who is ted danson? on August 14, 2020, 05:35:42 AM
Whoever wins, we lose
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: BIONIC on August 14, 2020, 06:26:40 AM
Remember when Epic used to actually make games?

Gears 1 & 2  :tocry
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: headwalk on August 14, 2020, 07:38:01 AM
all for an unremarkble bomb that was hurriedly jerry-rigged to copy the hot new game of moment and sent out as a F2P standalone mod to make a few quid back.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Svejk on August 14, 2020, 07:48:18 AM
Whoever wins, we lose
I see it as Whoever loses, we win...  Fuck Apple, Fuck Fortnight and Fuck Epic. Let one kill the other.  Like a giant cock fight of shitty games, as far as I'm concerned.
(https://y.yarn.co/e47af97f-3c15-462a-a59a-35ee8dc6c068_text_hi.gif)
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Pissy F Benny on August 14, 2020, 10:58:22 AM
:lol
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: GreatSageEqualOfHeaven on August 14, 2020, 12:02:58 PM
I'm really sceptical that any of Fortnites playerbase would get the reference that that freefortnite video is parodying
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtvjbmoDx-I
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: CatsCatsCats on August 14, 2020, 12:08:59 PM
Fuck App Store Monopoly fo real, don’t give two shits about epic tho
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: bork on August 14, 2020, 12:11:21 PM
I'm really sceptical that any of Fortnites playerbase would get the reference that that freefortnite video is parodying
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtvjbmoDx-I

It feels like there's already a million "HEY HERE'S WHERE THIS CAME FROM AND WHY IT WAS AN IMPORTANT AD" tweets out there.

I booted up Fortnite the other night and the Epic version of this ad popped up before I could get to the game.  You could hold a button to skip it, but even this took too long.  Makes me want to just delete it. 
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: GreatSageEqualOfHeaven on August 14, 2020, 12:23:19 PM
It feels like there's already a million "HEY HERE'S WHERE THIS CAME FROM AND WHY IT WAS AN IMPORTANT AD" tweets out there.

Well its a good opportunity for techbloggers to pretend they know whats being talked about and try and grow an audience that don't give a fuck about them or read anything they write (or read anything at all because they get all their news direct from YT)

e:
Before next month they go back to "WOW! Have you heard pf this game called FORTNITE? Look how many players it has! CRAZY, right? Now they showed a video advert in it!"
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: bork on August 14, 2020, 12:24:20 PM
It feels like there's already a million "HEY HERE'S WHERE THIS CAME FROM AND WHY IT WAS AN IMPORTANT AD" tweets out there.

Well its a good opportunity for techbloggers to pretend they know whats being talked about and try and grow an audience that don't give a fuck about them or read anything they write (or read anything at all because they get all their news direct from YT)

"DID U KNOW?  Apple created this in 1984 and it was later turned into the novel of the same name!"
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: thisismyusername on August 14, 2020, 12:48:58 PM
The game industry has quickly moved to launchers and their own platform infrastructure vs. using the platform of the hardware manufacturer (which was standard).

LOL. wtf are you talking about? 

Other than on PC where launchers abound.. like.. what?

Steam mobile app allows you to buy from there.

IIRC X-box and the Playstation apps do as well. It's a stretch but I get what he's going for.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Trent Dole on August 14, 2020, 02:59:38 PM
Why doesn't Epic just make their own mobile os if they don't want to do any revenue split? Brats would make their parents buy Fortnite phones.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: paprikastaude on August 14, 2020, 04:26:31 PM
https://twitter.com/geoffkeighley/status/1294001569436798976

:neogaf


https://twitter.com/Reggie/status/1294352988387991552

:neogaf :neogaf :neogaf
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: GreatSageEqualOfHeaven on August 14, 2020, 05:20:29 PM
Why doesn't Epic just make their own mobile os if they don't want to do any revenue split? Brats would make their parents buy Fortnite phones.

Well if they made an OS like they made their digital distribution storefront, it wouldn't be able to run any background apps or multitask, allow purchases without a credit card manually entered at each transaction, and not be able to import contacts from anywhere except facedbook, but would come with a free game each week.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Tuckers Law on August 14, 2020, 05:41:33 PM
How long til Tim pitches a big baby fit about the cut for console manufacturers and takes his ball away from them too?
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Rufus on August 14, 2020, 06:49:43 PM
How long til Tim pitches a big baby fit about the cut for console manufacturers and takes his ball away from them too?
They'd be suing one of their investors (Sony), but idk, maybe it's common.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Skullfuckers Anonymous on August 14, 2020, 07:05:53 PM
How long til Tim pitches a big baby fit about the cut for console manufacturers and takes his ball away from them too?

I thought console gamers like home brew apps?
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: thisismyusername on August 14, 2020, 09:21:27 PM
How long til Tim pitches a big baby fit about the cut for console manufacturers and takes his ball away from them too?

Exactly. His whole 88/12 spiel falls apart once people realize the 70/30 cut is standard across the board no matter the industry.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: pancakesandsex on August 14, 2020, 09:41:39 PM
The vergecast on this today was super informative.  Could have some big implications for ios as a closed platform if they win.  Looking forward to that.

https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/14/21368755/fortnite-app-store-apple-google-chaos-vergecast-417
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: chronovore on August 16, 2020, 10:36:44 AM
Sweeney going after Cook like this… it’s like that Cyndi Lauper song, Tim After Tim.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: bork on August 16, 2020, 11:03:17 AM
https://twitter.com/HardDriveMag/status/1294982243262357509
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Nintex on August 17, 2020, 03:04:14 PM
https://twitter.com/EpicNewsroom/status/1295430127455596544 (https://twitter.com/EpicNewsroom/status/1295430127455596544)

Tim Sweeney thinking he could take on Apple :heh

(http://www.quickmeme.com/img/32/32b4229145de0a2c1171b9b5757f25dfaa1bbf7b9be0b687be4dd5aec76a34d6.jpg)

If you come for Apple you better not miss

https://twitter.com/Slasher/status/1295434558112960519 (https://twitter.com/Slasher/status/1295434558112960519)
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Great Rumbler on August 17, 2020, 03:58:16 PM
https://twitter.com/geraldinreverse/status/1045907408474664961

(https://i.imgur.com/TX9prnl.jpg?1)
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: brawndolicious on August 17, 2020, 04:02:50 PM
Hoping this escalates further and causes the death of the walled garden. It is ridiculous to buy any hardware and not be able to choose what software runs on it.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Great Rumbler on August 17, 2020, 04:08:26 PM
Hoping this escalates further and causes the death of the walled garden. It is ridiculous to buy any hardware and not be able to choose what software runs on it.

Yes, but on the other hand I don't own any Apple products and couldn't possibly care any less about Fortnite so...
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: MMaRsu on August 17, 2020, 04:25:53 PM
Hoping this escalates further and causes the death of the walled garden. It is ridiculous to buy any hardware and not be able to choose what software runs on it.

Same with ps4/xbox?
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: thisismyusername on August 17, 2020, 04:30:32 PM
Hoping this escalates further and causes the death of the walled garden. It is ridiculous to buy any hardware and not be able to choose what software runs on it.

So you don't buy a console, then?

The Walled Garden is fine. The issue is Apple mandating everything going through their store for purchases. Which is where the issue for Epic is.

Thing is: It's a good thing in comparison to Google Play and it's malware app problems.

https://twitter.com/Slasher/status/1295434558112960519 (https://twitter.com/Slasher/status/1295434558112960519)

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/773/314/2ec.png)

>Epig thinking they can get their 88/12 cut for Winnie the Pooh
>Apple slaps their ass down hard because 70/30 is standard across the board

NEVER EVER Timmy Tencent.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Great Rumbler on August 17, 2020, 04:42:47 PM
Hoping this escalates further and causes the death of the walled garden. It is ridiculous to buy any hardware and not be able to choose what software runs on it.

Same with ps4/xbox?

Yes.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: GreatSageEqualOfHeaven on August 17, 2020, 04:57:40 PM
Tim Sweeney is a hypocritical dipshit, but holy fuck at this Apple assholery move.
Pull a game from their storefront and revoke their entire fucking companys unrelated developer accounts, which presumably they were fucking paying for?

How the fuck isn't that - at the bare minimum - tortuous interference?
Like, this is an 1980s MS level of fuckery. Arguably even stronger.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: naff on August 17, 2020, 05:30:51 PM
it's fkn hilarious people are lapping up the spin like this is some activist statement. it's just a bid to get a sweetheart deal, increase their margins and tim can get a nice lil' bonus. fuck all these guys
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: naff on August 17, 2020, 05:33:51 PM
Hoping this escalates further and causes the death of the walled garden. It is ridiculous to buy any hardware and not be able to choose what software runs on it.

Same with ps4/xbox?

Yes.

 :lol

say goodbye to consoles then. the profit around having a walled garden is the single reason they exist
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: MMaRsu on August 17, 2020, 05:50:45 PM
I mean I'm pro custom firmware in relation to electronic devices but I understand why it would be against the rules of the products
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: naff on August 17, 2020, 06:20:14 PM
I mean I'm pro custom firmware in relation to electronic devices but I understand why it would be against the rules of the products

same. but the incentive for the corp making these devices is creating vendor lock-in for their ecosystem. i could see m$ opening up xbox a little with a cut down version of windows that only allows software installation from the windows store or completely sandboxes itself in a vm so you don't get proper hardware access, but they're going to fight 'til the wheels fall off to monopolize their segments as much as possible.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: nudemacusers on August 17, 2020, 06:46:37 PM
Hoping this escalates further and causes the death of the walled garden. It is ridiculous to buy any hardware and not be able to choose what software runs on it.
lol apple don't curr about fortnite.

https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/15/21292203/apple-app-store-ios-apps-billings-revenue-517-billion-2019-antitrust-regulation
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: brawndolicious on August 17, 2020, 07:17:24 PM
Hoping this escalates further and causes the death of the walled garden. It is ridiculous to buy any hardware and not be able to choose what software runs on it.

Same with ps4/xbox?

Yeah of course. They've been using basically the same hardware architecture since 2013, there's no reason for any software to be locked off to just one console.

That's actually where I want it the most. Why shouldn't everyone be able to have Steam on Xbox or Game Pass on Playstation? Presumably, the software would become cheaper while the hardware would become more expensive since it's not subsidized by the software sales. Overall, it should increase competition in terms of price and quality though.

Do you think PC gaming would have been better or worse if you had to buy everything through an MS storefront?


Hoping this escalates further and causes the death of the walled garden. It is ridiculous to buy any hardware and not be able to choose what software runs on it.

So you don't buy a console, then?

The Walled Garden is fine. The issue is Apple mandating everything going through their store for purchases. Which is where the issue for Epic is.

Thing is: It's a good thing in comparison to Google Play and it's malware app problems.

I mean, you can have an app store that only supports certain devices for QA and security reasons. Would the iPhone become worse if it allowed side-loading though?
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: MMaRsu on August 17, 2020, 07:20:42 PM
Well that's why PC has traditionally always been the place for those who value options. That's why Apple isn't good for those who value options.

A console is not for someone who wants options.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Nintex on August 17, 2020, 07:36:11 PM
Tim could've filed his lawsuits and Apple probably would've looked at it or waited for the ruling.

But Tim went scorched earth and prepared a parody of some of Steve Jobs finest work at Apple in order to send 9 year olds after them.
Using minors for a deliberate and prepared marketing ploy will sure improve your position in court.  :lol

Tim really wanted to snatch the 'dumbest corporation award' from Microsoft and EA this year. Holy fucking shit.

The best part about this is that Apple has completely ignored Epic's inaudible screeching and only responds with boring legal statements.

Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: naff on August 17, 2020, 07:52:48 PM
Why shouldn't everyone be able to have Steam on Xbox or Game Pass on Playstation?

uhhhhh :derp
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: brawndolicious on August 17, 2020, 08:02:05 PM
fuck you naff, don't lasagna-shame me.  :'(

Well that's why PC has traditionally always been the place for those who value options. That's why Apple isn't good for those who value options.

A console is not for someone who wants options.

People often have different opinions on what they care about when shopping for stuff. I'm pretty sure if you gave people a choice, they would....make choices.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: MMaRsu on August 17, 2020, 08:14:15 PM
Well thats a whole nother choice in and of itself
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Pissy F Benny on August 17, 2020, 08:38:44 PM
What is a choice anyway, and are we sure that it’s really a choice :ohhh
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: nudemacusers on August 17, 2020, 09:25:08 PM
what if we are all an advanced simulation inside a future ipad minigame and each thought is powered by 1 for 1 by a microtransaction point system purchased by a future kid with their future mom's stolen credit card.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: kingv on August 17, 2020, 10:48:35 PM
I think Apple outlawing shit like stadia or Xbox streaming (and presumably PSNow) is actually worse than the Fortnite thing.

It’s definitely more anti-competitive.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: naff on August 17, 2020, 11:01:08 PM
fuck you naff, don't lasagna-shame me.  :'(

Well that's why PC has traditionally always been the place for those who value options. That's why Apple isn't good for those who value options.

A console is not for someone who wants options.

People often have different opinions on what they care about when shopping for stuff. I'm pretty sure if you gave people a choice, they would....make choices.

they do have the choice to not buy it.

talking about distribution, i recognise the importance of closed systems for consumers. i do think apple should enable sideloading, but it's clear why they don't and it does make their systems more secure. personally can't stand the company nowadays, have never owned an iOS device and don't plan to, but what tech companies can you look at these days and have any respect for? i think bandcamp is the only relatively mainstream storefront i could stan for. i always think about using Itch more for games, but i have a billion things already to play in steam, let alone the random sale bundles i've got with Itch.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: thisismyusername on August 18, 2020, 12:13:51 AM
Hoping this escalates further and causes the death of the walled garden. It is ridiculous to buy any hardware and not be able to choose what software runs on it.

So you don't buy a console, then?

The Walled Garden is fine. The issue is Apple mandating everything going through their store for purchases. Which is where the issue for Epic is.

Thing is: It's a good thing in comparison to Google Play and it's malware app problems.

I mean, you can have an app store that only supports certain devices for QA and security reasons. Would the iPhone become worse if it allowed side-loading though?

You missed the last part of my quote which answers your question. The Play Store is notoriously bad with Malware apps on it. Partially because Google doesn't lock it's shit down as well as it should.

Sideloading means those apps proliferate on APKPure/etc. pirating sites. It's the same issue with PC and people downloading shit that they shouldn't from untrustworthy sites. The difference between Google and Apple is that Apple locks. that. shit. down. completely. You can't "jailbreak," but at the cost of knowing that Apple keeps everything under tight control.

Again: A walled garden in theory is not bad: Apple, X-box Live, Playstation Network, etc. protect end-users that don't know better from getting Malware (generally).

Nerds like me and you? Yeah, it sucks. But we're the minority.

Frankly, I'm all for Apple keeping their shit tight if it means supporting their shit is much easier on me in a consumer and enterprise way. As much as I hate the "Apple way of doing" shit, I will give them props that their end-user experience is generally solid enough to where I'm not called on Apple support often.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on August 18, 2020, 03:32:11 AM
i would maybe have been more sympathetic to App Store policy in say 2013 but it's 2020 and computers are getting boring, let's go fuck with some app sandboxes.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: who is ted danson? on August 18, 2020, 05:21:24 AM
Tim Cook is fucking ruthless  :lol
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Crash Dummy on August 18, 2020, 06:39:20 AM
is google being as punitive as apple?
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Fifstar on August 18, 2020, 07:35:30 AM
Well Google allows it to circumvent the Playstore. I guess their strategy is to play hard when it comes play store revenue share but otherwise to pretend to be the good guy here.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: GreatSageEqualOfHeaven on August 18, 2020, 11:00:51 AM
Frankly, I'm all for Apple keeping their shit tight if it means supporting their shit is much easier on me in a consumer and enterprise way. As much as I hate the "Apple way of doing" shit, I will give them props that their end-user experience is generally solid enough to where I'm not called on Apple support often.

"I'm fine with their bullshit because it makes my job slightly easier"  :doge

Well Google allows it to circumvent the Playstore. I guess their strategy is to play hard when it comes play store revenue share but otherwise to pretend to be the good guy here.

The only thing Google mandate is if you're releasing an android phone, you have to include the google suite with it which isn't that big of an ask tbh, either for consumers (who are at the least going to want Youtube, google search and Gmail, even if they don't necessarily want the other stuff) or manufacturers who can still slap their own skins and app equivalents alongside.

Epic just bypassed the Play store entirely because they could, not because Google were trying to block them from not getting their cut. There's literally hundreds of apps on the Play store where the revenue comes from external subscriptions or purchases in exactly the way Apple don't allow.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Tuckers Law on August 18, 2020, 12:03:06 PM
Hoeg Law on YouTube has breakdown videos of the two lawsuits.  The more I listen the more I think these lawsuits don’t survive in court.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: thisismyusername on August 18, 2020, 12:54:20 PM
Frankly, I'm all for Apple keeping their shit tight if it means supporting their shit is much easier on me in a consumer and enterprise way. As much as I hate the "Apple way of doing" shit, I will give them props that their end-user experience is generally solid enough to where I'm not called on Apple support often.

"I'm fine with their bullshit because it makes my job slightly easier"  :doge

No. More like "I'm fine with their bullshit because their bullshit is good for end users that aren't me."

Apple protecting users from themselves is a good thing. Again: Look at the Google Play store and numerous apps getting through their "Malware check" only for people to install them. Indians installed a "remove Chinese developer" app that was malware, for instance. Google Play removed the app eventually, but it was installed on like a million to two million devices before that.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Great Rumbler on August 18, 2020, 01:48:53 PM
Hoeg Law on YouTube has breakdown videos of the two lawsuits.  The more I listen the more I think these lawsuits don’t survive in court.

Well, without looking too deeply into it Epic's lawsuit seems to come down to "Apple shouldn't be able to kick us off their platform for doing something that their rules expressly forbid us from doing."
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Joe Molotov on August 18, 2020, 01:50:17 PM
Have they tried putting Fortnite on CloutHub?
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Tuckers Law on August 18, 2020, 02:26:21 PM
Hoeg Law on YouTube has breakdown videos of the two lawsuits.  The more I listen the more I think these lawsuits don’t survive in court.

Well, without looking too deeply into it Epic's lawsuit seems to come down to "Apple shouldn't be able to kick us off their platform for doing something that their rules expressly forbid us from doing."

That’s been my initial takeaway as well, but I’m not even a caveman lawyer and have no legal experience on such matters.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: GreatSageEqualOfHeaven on August 18, 2020, 07:55:45 PM
Apple allows subscriptions and other content purchased outside of the App Store for most types of software, very similar to Google... without Apple getting a cut.  Apple's and Google rules are essentially the same here, the difference is Android allows software installed outside of the Play store.

And Epic ENTIRELY bypassed play store to avoid giving Google their cut, WTF are you talking about?   

In app purchases on Google Play also require you use Goolge's payment systems.. Epic tried getting in without that, and were denied.

They capitulated only a few months ago, likely always planning all along to do the same thing they did on iOS:

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-52383286#:~:text=Epic%20Games%20has%20released%20Fortnite,cut%20of%20in%2Dgame%20purchases.

And now Google did the same thing, booted Fortnite... because less than 6 months into launching on Play Store they released the version that doesn't use Google Pay lol

That's what I said - Epic released Fortnite outside of the Google play store because they can, because Android allows that.
They eventually went through the Play store because the visibility of doing so offsets the cut Google take.

They weren't blocked as a business from using Android SDKs in the entirety of their products or having access to Android compilers, or getting all their Gmail and Youtube accounts terminated as a result of releasing an APK outside of the Play ecosystem.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: GreatSageEqualOfHeaven on August 18, 2020, 09:48:51 PM
I said Epic bypassed the store because they could (so as not to give up any moneys), not because they were avoiding being blocked by Google which is... exactly what you just repeated  :doge
Google had nothing to do with their decision to skip paying a cut outside of the abstract "google take a cut". It was a proactive decision, not a reactive one.
Same deal with making their own launcher instead of going through Steam - it was nothing to do with any actions taken by Valve, they just wanted to skip paying out and because they could they did.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: GreatSageEqualOfHeaven on August 19, 2020, 10:21:17 AM
:confused

"B happened and also A happened, how the fuck does that mean A happened then B happened?"
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: MMaRsu on August 19, 2020, 01:30:45 PM
Tip to self, do not argue with EGS stans on Twitter 😂
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Tuckers Law on August 20, 2020, 03:09:12 AM
And Apple does allow paid content in apps on their store, as well as subs, without Apple getting a cut.

I didn’t know about this.  Which apps are the standouts in your mind?
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: chronovore on August 20, 2020, 03:29:11 AM
And Apple does allow paid content in apps on their store, as well as subs, without Apple getting a cut.

I didn’t know about this.  Which apps are the standouts in your mind?

Netflix
Kindle
Hulu

It’s just not through the app itself. Login with iOS Safari and pay through the website. The main point is that the payment isn’t going through the app itself.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Tuckers Law on August 20, 2020, 04:25:23 AM
Right I get that, I was just reading what Riotous said as there being apps that allow the purchase of paid content both directly in the app and without using Apples in-app purchase system.  Only thing I can think of at the moment that might let you is amazon’s store app, but they still gate you from buying digital music and video.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: GreatSageEqualOfHeaven on August 20, 2020, 12:23:50 PM
Meanwhile, even though Apple and Google run the exact same policies, you can't use Steamlink and access the steam storefront on an IOS device where you absolutely can on an android device, and install it directly via the play store with no sideloading required.
You can also install Xbox Gamepass and stream games on Android devices, but, again, not on IOS.
Even though as per Riotous-is-always-right there's no difference between the 2 ecosystems or policies or how policies are enforced.

People just have a particular problem with Apple to the extent that they file antitrust lawsuits because they're haterz
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: GreatSageEqualOfHeaven on August 20, 2020, 02:40:24 PM
it's almost like you are the most obnoxious human being on the planet.

You haven't gathered anything you fucking moron.

It's absolutely pathetic that the bare minimum of fact checking I do here somehow gets me labeled "obnoxious" and I need to "get over myself."

I get it, you guys don't give 2 shits about being lied to, and forming opinions based on lies.

Enjoy being idiots.

You really are the most annoying kind of troll.

Your brain being unable to comprehend the idea of a person becoming rich and not using that money to fuck kids is how I know you are a pedo.

Aslo you play pedo games, but still.

:kermit



Quote
If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Nintex on August 21, 2020, 12:06:38 PM
https://twitter.com/GIBiz/status/1296767473761554432 (https://twitter.com/GIBiz/status/1296767473761554432)

Tim Sweeney just keeps digging
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: MMaRsu on August 21, 2020, 01:51:57 PM
Pathetic clown
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Trent Dole on August 21, 2020, 05:40:22 PM
Hope you enjoyed your free games from Epic store while they lasted.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Pennywise on August 21, 2020, 05:44:26 PM
https://twitter.com/MrRobRoberts/status/1296916086911246336

Those e-mails  :doge
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: thisismyusername on August 21, 2020, 05:50:17 PM
Hope you enjoyed your free games from Epic store while they lasted.

>People install the ChiCom Spyware launcher
>Timmy does a stupid
>No more free games "officially"
>Still pirate exclusive games like Hitman 3 on the Pirate Bay
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/773/314/2ec.png)

Never Ever gonna install your spyware, Timmy Tencent.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: nudemacusers on August 21, 2020, 06:54:26 PM
so i was scrolling quickly through this thread and i'm seeing that tim sweeney is a pedo and went to rape island with epstein and the clintons?????  ???

why isn't games media talking about this  ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Don Rumata on August 21, 2020, 07:25:06 PM
https://twitter.com/EpicNewsroom/status/1295430127455596544 (https://twitter.com/EpicNewsroom/status/1295430127455596544)

Tim Sweeney thinking he could take on Apple :heh

(http://www.quickmeme.com/img/32/32b4229145de0a2c1171b9b5757f25dfaa1bbf7b9be0b687be4dd5aec76a34d6.jpg)

If you come for Apple you better not miss

https://twitter.com/Slasher/status/1295434558112960519 (https://twitter.com/Slasher/status/1295434558112960519)

Unity right now:  :rejoice :tauntaun :respect :mouf :lawd :playa :dsp
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Tuckers Law on August 21, 2020, 08:05:12 PM
“Forced.”  One could always just not buy those games and instead wait for the inevitable release elsewhere, or maybe devote their time/money to other things.  Lord knows the average working adult has a kings ransom of choices in games these days and likely could never get to playing everything they want.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: MMaRsu on August 21, 2020, 08:21:20 PM
“Forced.”  One could always just not buy those games and instead wait for the inevitable release elsewhere, or maybe devote their time/money to other things.  Lord knows the average working adult has a kings ransom of choices in games these days and likely could never get to playing everything they want.

That doesn't negate the fact you are forced to use their store if you have any intentions of playing these games day one. Regardless of your perception of time and ability to play any games at all

Sure I could play other things. Do I want to play Hitman 3 when it comes out? Yes. Do I want to buy anything from Sweeney cuckold? No.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Nintex on August 21, 2020, 08:21:52 PM
Quote
If Apple chooses instead to take punitive action by blocking consumer access to Fortnite or forthcoming updates, then Epic will, regrettably, be in conflict with Apple on a multitude of fronts - creative, technical, business, and legal - for so long as it takes to bring about change, if necessary for many years.

Apple: Ok  :yeshrug
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Tuckers Law on August 21, 2020, 09:24:04 PM
“Forced.”  One could always just not buy those games and instead wait for the inevitable release elsewhere, or maybe devote their time/money to other things.  Lord knows the average working adult has a kings ransom of choices in games these days and likely could never get to playing everything they want.

That doesn't negate the fact you are forced to use their store if you have any intentions of playing these games day one. Regardless of your perception of time and ability to play any games at all

Sure I could play other things. Do I want to play Hitman 3 when it comes out? Yes. Do I want to buy anything from Sweeney cuckold? No.

I'm no fan at all of the Epic Store and the practices that prop it, and I loathe that detestable shit Sweeney, so don’t get me wrong.  All I’m saying is that nothing is forcing a person to buy any game, it’s only a matter of how badly they want it and want it now.

I would consider it glorious if these lawsuits backfire so badly on Sweeney and Epic that unreal loses a shitload of support among developers and publishers simply because for them it’s not worth dealing with the headaches that come attached.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Pissy F Benny on August 22, 2020, 10:06:43 AM
i prefer the epic game store to steam :trumps :patel
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: MMaRsu on August 22, 2020, 10:17:00 AM
No trolling piss benoit
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: GreatSageEqualOfHeaven on August 22, 2020, 12:12:06 PM
https://twitter.com/MrRobRoberts/status/1296916086911246336

Those e-mails  :doge

I don't really get how emailing apple and telling them you're about to do something, then doing it, then making a big public song and dance about it constitutes
Quote
Guideline 2.3.1 - Performance
We discovered that your app contains hidden features. Attempting to hide features,functionality or content in your app is considered egregious behavior and can lead to removal from the Apple Developer Program.
Specifically, we found that your app includes an “Epic direct payment” feature, which provides access to external payment mechanisms and enables the purchase of content,services, or functionality by means other than the in-app purchase API
as per the emails filed as evidence
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Nintex on August 22, 2020, 01:13:32 PM
With the way this is going this will end up with Tim Sweeney jumping from a bridge live on Facebook blaming Apple.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Trent Dole on August 22, 2020, 02:53:12 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BA8sC_1jto
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: El Babua on August 22, 2020, 02:57:20 PM
Go against Apple's lawyers and hand them their defense - as well a possible avenue to countersue - by yourself brehs
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: brawndolicious on August 22, 2020, 03:44:35 PM
Go against Apple's lawyers and hand them their defense - as well a possible avenue to countersue - by yourself brehs

Doubt it's that simple. It seems pretty obvious that they never expected to win any legal battles. It feels like the one goal Epic had in those emails was to get Tim Cook to say "We are your lords beeotch" or something like that which is totally legally okay, but leaves a bad taste in the consumers mouth.

Basically, they know there's no legal argument here but they're paying their lawyers to drag this out for as long as possible so that the consumers and developers can rubberneck the ugliness of Apple, Google, etc having app stores that return an 80% profit margin just to act as the middleman.

The question is will anyone care if they see the app vendors screwing over everybody on both sides?
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Rufus on August 23, 2020, 08:38:06 PM
https://twitter.com/EskilSteenberg/status/1297520275790139394

where have I heard this name before?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_(2010_video_game)
[close]
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: nudemacusers on August 23, 2020, 09:55:26 PM
Go against Apple's lawyers and hand them their defense - as well a possible avenue to countersue - by yourself brehs

Doubt it's that simple. It seems pretty obvious that they never expected to win any legal battles. It feels like the one goal Epic had in those emails was to get Tim Cook to say "We are your lords beeotch" or something like that which is totally legally okay, but leaves a bad taste in the consumers mouth.

Basically, they know there's no legal argument here but they're paying their lawyers to drag this out for as long as possible so that the consumers and developers can rubberneck the ugliness of Apple, Google, etc having app stores that return an 80% profit margin just to act as the middleman.

The question is will anyone care if they see the app vendors screwing over everybody on both sides?
well if that was epic's plan, and that's the only plan that lines up with this pointless bluster, then I wonder how myopic their leadership is to think this will matter at all in a few weeks time given apple is about to drop new shiny shit.

what consumers actually give a shit about store fees, as if that is the true unanswered crime of big business capitalism? nobody cares about walmart fucking over small businesses/towns across the US, nobody cares about amazon annihilating competition left and right, and certainly nobody cares about slave labor overseas... you could poll every US iphone user and I'd wager no more than 1% have even heard of this drama. most of the popular lamestreamer mobile games are F2P microtransaction hell anyway, so epic can spare me with the crybaby shit when they charge for costumes and cribbed dance maneuvers :lol
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Nintex on August 25, 2020, 07:16:47 AM
https://twitter.com/sarahjeong/status/1298020443182440449 (https://twitter.com/sarahjeong/status/1298020443182440449)

 :neogaf

Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: MMaRsu on August 25, 2020, 09:19:12 AM
Suck it timmy
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Don Rumata on August 25, 2020, 11:16:11 AM
Anyone who invested in Epic must be WTF'ing pretty hard right now including Sony lol

Epic's lawyers claiming devs are already fleeing Unreal in droves... yeah, because your boss is a freak show who puts all of his partners at risk lol
Feels like Tim got just a little bit too greedy, which is weird to say, since the other side of this is Apple,  :lol.
But in this case Epic clearly overplayed their hand.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: thisismyusername on August 28, 2020, 06:17:04 PM
>Epig's account gets nuked
>But not the Game Engine one

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/773/314/2ec.png)

Way to cut your nose to spite your face, Timmy.


With the way this is going this will end up with Tim Sweeney jumping from a bridge live on Facebook blaming Apple.

That'd rule so hard.

Epic's lawyers claiming devs are already fleeing Unreal in droves...

(https://i.redd.it/r8q53a3mh2j51.png)

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/773/314/2ec.png)
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: GreatSageEqualOfHeaven on August 28, 2020, 06:29:21 PM
I think its likely that Apple are going to have to give up something somewhere as their TOS gets scrutinised.

It's not for nothing Facebook just lobbed a softball "Even if we wanted to give something away for free we can't because Apple won't budge on taking their cut" salvo.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: GreatSageEqualOfHeaven on August 28, 2020, 06:39:12 PM
There will be class actions against Sony/Microsoft the second any court decides Apples practice isn't fair.

Sony and MS aren't demanding 30% of subscription signups if you use Netflix / Spotify etc on a console.
They're also not prohibiting telling customers why free content can;t be given away as "irrelevant information".

Apple really are pulling some shady shit that goes beyond what others are doing, irregardless of how weak Epics position actually is.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: GreatSageEqualOfHeaven on August 28, 2020, 07:05:20 PM
Neither Sony nor MS would be able to try and strongarm netflix or spotfy into giving up subscription revenues for signups.

Facebook prevented from telling users why they cannot waive a fee on a service due to TOS:
https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-facebook-apple-exclusive/exclusive-facebook-says-apple-rejected-its-attempt-to-tell-users-about-app-store-fees-idUKKBN25O042

again, its not for nothing facebook are publicising this now. They want some scrutiny over those arbitrary TOS.

Apple emails showing they waived fees to get amazon prime on devices where other services did not get that break, because they're bigger than others:
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/30/apple-amazon-facebook-google-internal-emails-released-by-congress.html

"its just the standard fee that applies to everyone, except when its not".


I don't think Epics case has much merit, but you're going to continue seeing grumblings about how Apple handle the appstore, because they'e pulling some shit.
For all I know Tim Sweeneys just being a useful idiot to get some scutiny going on for other companies under the tencent umbrella.
There really is no grounds for Apple claiming subscription revenue for services based on whether they sign up through their phone or not, for the exact same reason it would be nonsensical to try and take a 30% cut of a taxi ride made via uber, a food delivery made through grubhub, or an amazon purchase made via a phone.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: thisismyusername on August 28, 2020, 07:09:23 PM
Is Fortnite totally gone from iOS then?

Why don't you Google News it yourself, so "obnoxious" how you come into threads to condense folks only to not do the work yourself.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: GreatSageEqualOfHeaven on August 28, 2020, 07:47:14 PM
you can - right now - load up spotify or netflix on a console, sign up as a new user, and it is not done via the PSN storefront or XBL payment page - it goes via a webpage, and Sony / MS do not get any recurring susbcription revenue from you doing that, because it is in their interest to have Spotify / Netflix on their platform.

Apple refuse that behaviour on IOS. Google don't refuse it, but its moot because if they did you would be able to just dl an APK directly from netflix / spotify.

Apple could very easily allow these kinds of apps to offer a web payment page, and give you an option to pay using Apple Pay (where they get their cut) which is a simpler end user experience than entering CC details.

They use a stick not a carrot because they can. It is not a huge fucking surprise a lot of people giving up a lot of revenue in return for not very much in return from Apple do not like that.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: GreatSageEqualOfHeaven on August 28, 2020, 08:26:50 PM
Well as per the subject of this topic, Fortnite has cross platform progression when linked to an Epic account, therefore your purchases made via the Epic Store carry across to the Xbox and PS4 with Sony / MS not seeing any revenue from that as they only take a cut on purchases made directly through PSN / XBL. That's how.

And to reiterate; I don't think Epics case has much merit, but there are highly questionable and entirely arbitrary things within Apples TOS that won't hold up to much legal scutiny when challenged, which is why various non game developers are chiming in. It's literally nothing to do with Walled Gardens per se; it is to do with Apple specifically as gatekeeper, and the policies they are sole arbiter over.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: GreatSageEqualOfHeaven on August 28, 2020, 10:04:07 PM
I don't really get how it's moving goalposts to address the subject of the thread - apple removing Fortnite for breaking their rules - to provide examples of where other closed garden ecosystems are not asking for the same conditions that apple are, where other application developers have problems specifically with apples policies, and that other closed ecosystems have not removed fortnite as apple have while you keep whatabouting sony / ms / google when they demonstrably do not have the same policies that apple do, and have accordingly not removed fortnite for breaking those policies (which don't exist)

:idont
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: GreatSageEqualOfHeaven on August 29, 2020, 02:46:48 PM
 :steel

Are you a visual learner? Do you need a Venn Diagram to describe the relationship as to why the lawsuit is against Apple and Apple alone, and bringing up other companies that are not part of this lawsuit is irrelevant, because other companies are not exhibiting the same behaviour?

Sony / Nintendo / MS have closed systems but it doesn't matter because they do not have the same policies as Apple do regarding external revenue.
Google has similar policies to Apple regarding external revenue but it doesn't matter because they do not have a closed system.

Apple have a closed system [LOGICAL OPERATOR AND] && have policies prohibiting external revenue.

Epic would be fine with being able to sideload Fortnite on IOS [LOGICAL OPERATOR OR] || being permitted to sell vbucks not via the appstore.
The basis of the lawsuit is they can't do either. On IOS alone. Due to Apple specific policies.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: GreatSageEqualOfHeaven on August 29, 2020, 05:01:40 PM
I'm literally incapable of dumbing this down any further for you
(https://i.imgur.com/mXpRlyX.jpg)

Epic could not give a single shit about why things are to the left or to the right, they just want apple to move either left or right
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Tuckers Law on August 29, 2020, 08:08:11 PM
You two should really just get it over with and fuck.  Get rid of all that tension.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Fifstar on August 30, 2020, 06:31:55 AM
I'm literally incapable of dumbing this down any further for you
(https://i.imgur.com/mXpRlyX.jpg)

Epic could not give a single shit about why things are to the left or to the right, they just want apple to move either left or right

But epic is sueing Google as well  ???
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: nudemacusers on August 30, 2020, 02:22:23 PM
You two should really just get it over with and fuck.  Get rid of all that tension.
put it on onlyfans :phil
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: GreatSageEqualOfHeaven on August 30, 2020, 04:30:13 PM
Epics sole goal is increasing their revenue percentage.
They're not Linus Torvalds. They have zero interest in any kind of philosophical debate or ideological goal of opening closed systems.
They want more money, thats it.
If you think their ultimate goal is to try and allow all devices to 'sideload' apps, you're wrong.

Theyre not going after console manufacturers because console manufacturers let them sell their product outside of their store for no commission.
Theyd prefer to put google in the same position as the console makers, so they have a similar suit, but its not a joint filing, its 2 separate filings, and I'm sure they're well aware their filing against google has very little weight, but its added pressure to try and push that.
But their primary goal is to move apple away from that spot.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: GreatSageEqualOfHeaven on August 30, 2020, 04:51:29 PM
- iOS on Fortnite allows content purchased outside of iOS... same as Xbox or Playstation.. 

THREAD TITLE
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Fifstar on August 31, 2020, 06:03:15 AM
Yes, Epic are suing Google to..

Honestly, the actual lawsuit about 95% applies to Sony/Microsoft:

https://cdn2.unrealengine.com/apple-complaint-734589783.pdf

The lawsuit is basically "Apple collects fees on all in-app purchases and doesn't allow competing app stores".

There's barely anything UNIQUE to Apple that doesn't apply to Sony and Microsoft.. and the reality is that MS's/Sony's practices are far WORSE in relation to most of what is being said here.    They enact more control overall, not less, than Apple does.

Epic going after only cell phone OS makers is pretty damn arbitrary.  While they are likely to fail, if somehow they do win.. unless the ruling only cites Apple-specific complaints like not allowing apps to tell users they can pay elsewhere, it's a ruling that could haunt console manufacturers.

I think the best path to win for Epic is Apple and Google being forced to allow other stores on iOS and Android. Mainly for a lack of competition in those markets. The 30% cut doesn't really matter, that's just an arbitrary number.

With consoles the situation is very different. There is a lot of risk and competition in the console market (MS is all time probably still in the red, Sony wiped out their profits from gen 1 + 2 with the PS3, for Nintendo every system is all or nothing situation; market leadership and revenue greatly varies by country and console generations). And of course there are tons of other markets and competition for games. From smartphones to the gazillion pc launchers to browser games. Minecraft became a billion dollar franchise without the use of any launcher. The media apps like Netflix or Spotify obviously can be accessed from tons of other devices, some behind gatekeepers, some not. Then there are the streaming apps that allow new competitors like Google to enter the market. Console makers being just as bad or worse with their business tactics doesn't matter as long as there is competition in the video games market.

So I think Epic doesn't include the console makers in legal action because it would shift away focus from the mono/duopoly that exits in the smartphone app market towards the videogame market where a ton of competition exists. The biggest problem for Epic is probably, that you can sideload on Android and that the Galaxy store exists on probably more than 100 million devices. Although I guess they would cite their own lack  of success with those two possibilities that there isn't really competition even on the theoretically open Android market .
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: MMaRsu on August 31, 2020, 07:25:10 AM
Tons of competition in the gaming market? Who else besides Sony and Xbox? Ninty hardly factors into the race most of the time
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: GreatSageEqualOfHeaven on September 02, 2020, 03:05:55 AM
Nobodies trying to overturn the concept of closed systems or trying to get access to source code.
Where Apple are vulnerable on anti-trust is their over reach concerning revenue from thin clients.
Fortnite is not a thin client, so their claims are mostly bullshit, but Apple could easily have avoided this by not being so greedy and just allowing complimentary purchases to be valid.

But where Apples defence about providing the underlying tech so needing to earn a cut of any purchases fails is where app developers are providing whats basically a compiled webpage to access data that is wholly seperate to anything provided by Apple, where an iDevice is just a platform to access that data or services.
Literally nobody except Apple is pushing for a cut of all extraneous revenue streams, which is the basis of the lawsuit by Spotify, the basis for supporting statements by Facebook / MS / Match Group et al, the reason Valve had to make a special IOS specfici version of Steamlink removing any storefront, the reason XCloud Gamepass won't be there, and the recent embarassing u-turn about WordPress (https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/22/21397424/apple-wordpress-apology-iap-free-ios-app).

It's like Comcast demanding a subscription fee cut for people buying things on webpages because they provide underlying network infrastructure to allow people to use the internet in the first place.
It's insanely greedy, and frankly indefensible rent seeking behaviour that is going to be very difficult to persuade a jury as to why a business built using nothing to do with Apple should have to share revenue just to allow existing customers access on an Apple device.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Lonewulfeus on September 02, 2020, 06:33:11 PM
Fuck Apple

Sent from my iPhone
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: thisismyusername on September 05, 2020, 12:58:24 PM
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/773/314/2ec.png)

https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2020/9/5/21423889/fortnite-epic-apple-preliminary-injunction-filing-ios-mac

Quote from: TFAforREEEETious
But in the new filing, Epic argues that more than its reputation has been harmed: “Daily active users on iOS have declined by over 60% since Fortnite’s removal from the App Store,” Epic claims. (It measured through September 2nd, in case you’re curious; by that point Fortnite had effectively split into two different games.)

Epic says iOS is the biggest platform for Fortnite, too: 116 million registered users, or nearly a third of the 350 million registered users Epic says Fortnite has attracted in total. It also claims 63 percent of Fortnite users on iOS access Fortnite only on iOS, and that it’s the only way for many people to play the game.

Epic says it’s worried it “may never see these users again” (referring to the 60 percent decline); that its Fortnite community of players has been torn apart; and that some of its non-Fortnite customers have also been collateral damage. As we reported last week, some of Epic’s other games are no longer available to re-download, and Epic says that its Shadow Complex Remastered has been removed from the Mac App Store, too, after Apple terminated Epic’s developer account.

Epic also claims that Apple is threatening to deny any attempts to apply for a new developer account “for at least a year,” quoting a communication from Apple itself, and is arguing that the harm it would endure by being “denied the opportunity to access even a single new user among the one-billion-plus iOS users for at least the next year” is harm worth creating a preliminary injunction for.

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/773/314/2ec.png)

Quote from: Let's Zoom(er) in on the important bits
Epic argues that more than its reputation has been harmed: “Daily active users on iOS have declined by over 60% since Fortnite’s removal from the App Store,” Epic claims. (It measured through September 2nd, in case you’re curious;[/u] by that point Fortnite had effectively split into two different games.)

Epic says iOS is the biggest platform for Fortnite, too: 116 million registered users, or nearly a third of the 350 million registered users Epic says Fortnite has attracted in total. It also claims 63 percent of Fortnite users on iOS access Fortnite only on iOS, and that it’s the only way for many people to play the game.

Epic says it’s worried it “may never see these users again” (referring to the 60 percent decline);
[/u]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPY5P0TaC4k

"All you have to do is take out your circumvention and TOS-violating Epig store sale option, Timmy."

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/773/314/2ec.png)

>Timmy continuing to do a stupid and fuck over his company for Tencent

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/773/314/2ec.png)
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: thisismyusername on September 10, 2020, 06:29:53 PM
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/773/314/2ec.png)

>Timmy continuing to do a stupid and fuck over his company for Tencent

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/773/314/2ec.png)

OH HEY MENTION TENCENT OF THE DEVIL:

http://www.fosspatents.com/2020/09/apple-sees-chinese-giant-tencent-behind.html

(Scribd/Legal Docs included)

Quote
While Google announced that it would seek the dismissal of Epic's complaint over the Play Store, Apple's filing says the iPhone maker "looks forward to defending against Epic's baseless claims."

:neogaf Timmy doing a stupid. :neogaf

Quote
On the basis of its counterclaims, which are largely based in contract law but also invoke California Unfair Competition Law, Apple seeks damages and "demands a trial by jury on all issues so triable."

(https://media.tenor.com/images/e0b59000a814fa501b885c383efb915b/tenor.gif)

Quote
The following paragraph is the most interesting one to me--and I wouldn't be surprised to see some references to China in next year's trial:

"Not content with attacking Apple's app review process, Epic, backed by the tech giant Tencent (which has its own competing app store, one of the largest in the world), also seeks to dismantle the App Store's entire business model to advance its own economic interests without regard to the effect on other developers and consumers."

Tencent owns other games companies as well, such as Supercell (Clash of Clans, Hay Day etc.). And here's a link to Tencent's app store.

(https://media.tenor.com/images/e0b59000a814fa501b885c383efb915b/tenor.gif)

>Timmy burning money for Tencent

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/773/314/2ec.png)
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Tuckers Law on September 10, 2020, 06:58:35 PM
HoegLaw’s youtube channel has been doing excellent breakdowns of the legal filings for this case, and I highly recommend them.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: MMaRsu on September 15, 2020, 02:30:45 PM
Linus weighs his dumbass face into the situation

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eh-ewk4XkAAJ4yG?format=png&name=240x240)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tQddjlXj6o

Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Nintex on September 15, 2020, 05:30:19 PM
Nintendo: wow, can't believe Apple would just ban Fortnite like that  :pika

(https://media.s-bol.com/RlWRWMOorMpR/550x394.jpg)
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Sho Nuff on September 18, 2020, 01:52:11 AM
Apple trying to murder all UE4 dev on iOS:

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020/09/apple-asks-to-block-ios-unreal-engine-development-in-new-court-filing/ (https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020/09/apple-asks-to-block-ios-unreal-engine-development-in-new-court-filing/)

Quote
Apple says it wants to close all of Epic's accounts in part to prevent what it calls a "shell game" of apps being transferred from one developer account to another. But Apple says it's also because the company now sees Epic's Unreal Engine as a "potential threat" that "poses as a second potential 'trojan horse' that would enable Epic to carry through on its threats to undermine the App Store and insert further unauthorized features."

That's right, use UE4 on iOS to make your game and Epic will sneak in secret code on deployment to undermine the App Store, those sneaky boogers

Haha fuck both parties but seriously fuck Apple the most
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: thisismyusername on September 18, 2020, 12:37:57 PM
Apple trying to murder all UE4 dev on iOS:

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020/09/apple-asks-to-block-ios-unreal-engine-development-in-new-court-filing/ (https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020/09/apple-asks-to-block-ios-unreal-engine-development-in-new-court-filing/)

Quote
Apple says it wants to close all of Epic's accounts in part to prevent what it calls a "shell game" of apps being transferred from one developer account to another. But Apple says it's also because the company now sees Epic's Unreal Engine as a "potential threat" that "poses as a second potential 'trojan horse' that would enable Epic to carry through on its threats to undermine the App Store and insert further unauthorized features."

That's right, use UE4 on iOS to make your game and Epic will sneak in secret code on deployment to undermine the App Store, those sneaky boogers

Haha fuck both parties but seriously fuck Apple the most

I mean, you're a developer so obviously you're gonna side with Epic on this. But: Apple's defense has merit in terms of "TOS bypassing." As ludicrous as it would be for Epic to do that, it's entirely possible for them to do that and try to save their business on the platform (since Fortnite bled 60% of it's players since this started) and give other developers running UE4 on iPhone access to updates/etc if they can't test it on Apple's platform without Epic involvement.

Maybe you should be angry at Timmy for puling a stupid and getting into a war that he was ill prepared for.

Maybe he should sue Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo next for being a "monopoly" on their platforms? :girlaff
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: GreatSageEqualOfHeaven on September 18, 2020, 02:08:50 PM
Maybe he should sue Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo next for being a "monopoly" on their platforms? :girlaff

like I said upthread, epic don't care about that, because they don't care if some of the moneys comes from an alternate source, because it being on their platform adds value to that platform, and a significant chunk of people will just buy via the console store and give that cut anyway due to convenience.

Apple really are being the bigger dicks here.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: MMaRsu on September 19, 2020, 07:41:33 AM
Why wouldnt they push for an Epic Store on consoles if it would serve them?
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: GreatSageEqualOfHeaven on September 19, 2020, 09:33:44 AM
Why wouldnt they push for an Epic Store on consoles if it would serve them?

most money for least effort is just consolidating all of their different audiences to their one existing store, as they currently do.
running multiple concurrent stores all selling the same thing is more effort for no more revenue.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: GreatSageEqualOfHeaven on September 24, 2020, 12:27:01 PM
https://appfairness.org/

So like I said above, although I don't believe epics claim in particular has much merit, it does touch on underlying issues affecting other service providers that are effectively using an iPhone as a thin client and are unhappy with the revenue demands apple are making accordingly, given what service Apple provides for that cut (which is *exists*).

There are some pretty big names weighing in on this, and presumably lobbying accordingly.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: MMaRsu on September 29, 2020, 06:00:08 AM
Lmao Epic destroyed by judge  :lol
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Sho Nuff on September 29, 2020, 08:17:55 AM
Lmao Epic destroyed by judge  :lol

Kaploof

Now that's what I call a judicial dunking
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Rufus on September 29, 2020, 11:52:47 AM
Lmao Epic destroyed by judge  :lol
?
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: MMaRsu on September 29, 2020, 01:29:47 PM
Lmao Epic destroyed by judge  :lol
?

https://twitter.com/b_fung/status/1310624566264369152
https://mobile.twitter.com/b_fung/status/1310634589828845573
https://mobile.twitter.com/b_fung/status/1310633854680653832
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Nintex on September 29, 2020, 01:42:57 PM
Sounds like Nintendo Ninja's got to the judge and she argues everyone can just buy a Switch to play Fortnite  :miyamoto
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: GreatSageEqualOfHeaven on September 29, 2020, 03:16:58 PM
Yeah, uhh.. that's what I was saying in this thread lol

GreatSage, thoughts?

I know you're convinced Epic are tying to overthrow the concept of Walled Gardens (even though they're not suing any console manufacturers), but the Judge doesn't believe that any more than they (or Apple) believe that adding a payment store is a "security risk" even though that's what Apple are claiming.

Epic want more money, that's literally it.
It is transparently obvious what their end goal is from their "app fairness" consortium; they want Apple to behave like a payment processor, not a storefront.
Also, again, Epics case is weak in this area - hey, maybe thats why they tried to prop it up with additional stuff they dont really believe or give a shit about! - but 'thin client' service providers case is a lot stronger.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: GreatSageEqualOfHeaven on September 29, 2020, 03:41:25 PM
They have one actual complaint, that they can't get around a 30% payment processing / storefront / whatever you want to call it fee on IOS.

That's not "worse" on consoles. Because they can bypass it on consoles.

They do not give a shit about walled gardens, on the basis that they are walled gardens. They don't want fortnite-all-skins-unlocker sat next to fortnite on a storefront.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: GreatSageEqualOfHeaven on September 29, 2020, 04:45:10 PM
They can't, and don't, bypass it on consoles.. hence what the judge said.. and what I've been saying.. JFC..

 :doge

I don't know why you continue to deny facts
https://www.epicgames.com/fortnite/en-US/news/the-fortnite-mega-drop-permanent-discounts-up-to-20-percent

Buy skins directly from Epic, don't pay shit to MS / Sony / Nintendo - that is what they want on IOS.
Like, I made a fucking venn diagram when you claimed this before, go back and reread

Quote
PC AND CONSOLE SAVINGS
Starting today, any V-Bucks or real-money offers you purchase on PlayStation 4, Xbox One, Nintendo Switch, PC, and Mac are now discounted by up to 20%. You don’t need to do anything!

The 20% discount comes from not paying the platform holders 30%, jfc
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Tuckers Law on September 29, 2020, 05:18:16 PM
Where does it say that Epic are no longer paying fees to the console platform holders?  All I’m seeing in that linked PR piece is that Epic chose to reduce the cost of purchasing their digital monopoly money, not that the platform holders are seeing a lesser percentage than before.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: GreatSageEqualOfHeaven on September 29, 2020, 05:28:48 PM
Where does it say that Epic are no longer paying fees to the console platform holders?  All I’m seeing in that linked PR piece is that Epic chose to reduce the cost of purchasing their digital monopoly money, not that the platform holders are seeing a lesser percentage than before.

They are still paying for their devkits etc, but Sony / MS / Nintendo only take a cut of transactions made through their storefront.
The pennies on the dollar they miss out on from people willing to go buy a code from a website instead of just hitting the "buy now" button inn game using their stored credit card is made up for by having a popular game on their service.
Apple are too fucking greedy to come to the same realisation.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: GreatSageEqualOfHeaven on September 29, 2020, 05:49:20 PM

Why in the world do you think the consoles don't charge 30%?  Because Epic gave a discount on consoles?  lol

Like you are so ignorant of how this shit works.. they do charge 30%.

Sony makes most of their revenue from MTX...

jfc, I literally cannot dumb this down any further.
You get a 20% discount on consoles by not buying through the console owners storefront but going through epic instead.
Epic get bigger cut. Platform owner does not get cut.
It's "up to" 20% because: buy from console storefront = no discount.
Buy from Epic using payment method Epic likes (ie costs them nothing) = 20%
Buy from Epic using payment method that costs Epic money = sliding scale of putting those charges onto purchaser first.

It doesn't fucking "work like that on IOS", because - as I fucking posted before - THE NAME OF THIS THREAD is "APPLE REMOVES FORTNITE FROM APPLE STORE".
Title: Re:
Post by: GreatSageEqualOfHeaven on September 29, 2020, 05:53:55 PM
Fuck you you dumb gaslighting piece of shit.

hence why I include the past tense.. as I explained to you several times,

iOS/Apple allows content purchased from outside their store

Quote
Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store

I question your functional literacy skills
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Lonewulfeus on September 29, 2020, 05:57:13 PM
Like the topic it’s based on, this thread has devolved into two giant assholes bitch slapping each other.  I love it! :aah
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: GreatSageEqualOfHeaven on September 29, 2020, 06:25:24 PM
Allowed = past tense, referring to Fortnite

Allows = current tense, for games that didn't get their dumbasses pulled from Apples store

These aren't Fortnite specific rules after all you stupid cunt.

edit: Actually I said worked/works you dumb motherfucker

 ::)

Apple don't allow that, that is literally the basis for them pulling it from their appstore, the basis of the lawsuit, and the basis of the complaints made by all of the other service providing apps who are not allowed to bypass the Appstore for payments... Like, do you even understand what this case is about on even a rough surface level?

Or are you going to actually read the TOS then claim I'm 'gaslighting' you, like when you said you can't sign up to Netflix on a console without going through the storefront, or how you can't purchase fortnite items on console without going through the storefront?

It's not "fortnite specific rules" that Apple don't allow purchases that bypass them taking a cut; it is literally the foundation of the case.

READ THE FUCKING OP, CHRIST
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: bork on September 30, 2020, 12:12:13 PM
Battle it out in a game of Fortnite to settle your differences!

 :klob
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: thetylerrob on September 30, 2020, 12:32:07 PM
ENTP personality types am I right guys???  :whatsthedeal
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: GreatSageEqualOfHeaven on September 30, 2020, 12:55:51 PM
Here you go you dumb biaaattchhh:

https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/

Quote
3.1.3(b) Multiplatform Services: Apps that operate across multiple platforms may allow users to access content, subscriptions, or features they have acquired in your app on other platforms or your web site, including consumable items in multi-platform games, provided those items are also available as in-app purchases within the app.

I've been telling you from the start you have no clue how any of this shit works.. I love how the only thing I got wrong, that Netflix has a link on PS4/Xbox that opens a browser window to subscribe gets thrown in my face lol.. meanwhile everything else about a console works about the same as it does on iOS.  (except console manufacturers charge devs WAY MORE realistically due to certification fees in the 10's of thousands)

And as I pointed out before.... and maybe you'll actually read this now:

PS4 was the only version of Fortnite that initially locked users into purchases only on Playstation.  You couldn't even use your account at all outside of PS4, no buying content outside of PS4, etc... oh and yeah Sony charges 30%.   Epic eventually got Sony to fix that, well after Fortnite's release.

Oh, well, if those policies don't exist its a slam dunk win for Epic then.

Please also tell more historical anecdotes about companies not involved in this lawsuit, they are super relevant.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Pissy F Benny on September 30, 2020, 02:15:10 PM
settle down girls :cenk
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Tuckers Law on September 30, 2020, 03:50:36 PM
At this point, I’m not sure which I visit this thread for more: Sleazy Tim vs Apple, or the beef between Riotous and GreatSage.

It has been quite entertaining.   :itagaki
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Tuckers Law on September 30, 2020, 04:24:13 PM
Perhaps, but we got together and discussed it and decided that every interaction between you specifically and others in the forum must always be classified as a “beef”.  Similar to German beer laws, in a very loose sense of the notion.

For example, right now you and I are beefing.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: MMaRsu on September 30, 2020, 05:48:51 PM
Apple and Epic agree that they don't want a Jury Trial  :lol

Quote
During Monday's hearing on Epic's request for an injunction that would force Apple to return Fortnite to the iOS App Store while the legal action between them proceeds, the judge presiding over the matter said she'd prefer that the lawsuit be tried in front of a jury. In a filing made the following day, Epic and Apple were actually able to find common ground on something: They'd prefer not to bring a jury into it.

"During the September 28, 2020, hearing on Epic’s Motion for a Preliminary Injunction, the Court indicated that it '[did not] want to try two cases' and was 'inclined to try both cases at once,' and asked the parties to inform the Court by 5:00 PM PT on September 29, 2020, whether either party demands a jury trial," the filing states.

"Epic and Apple have met and conferred, and the parties agree that Epic’s claims and Apple’s counterclaims should be tried by the Court, and not by a jury. Therefore, with Epic’s consent, Apple hereby withdraws its demand for a jury trial pursuant to Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 38(d). The parties respectfully request that the case (including any claims and counterclaims) proceed to a bench trial on a schedule determined by the Court."

The comment about "two cases" is a reminder that there actually two separate actions going on here: Epic's lawsuit against Apple over "monopolistic practices" on the App Store, and Apple's breach of contract countersuit against Epic. Apple had initially demanded a trial by jury in its lawsuit.

A bench trial is one in which a judge, rather than a jury, hears the case and delivers a finding. The American Bar Association says that despite what you may have seen on television, bench trials are actually more common in civil matters than jury trials. In theory, a judge should be better equipped to follow complex legal arguments than a jury.

A trial date has not yet been set, but the judge in the case said yesterday that it likely won't take place until July 2021.

If Apple and Epic can agree on something riotous and GreatSageEqualOfHeaven should make up too

You know, squash that beef
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: MMaRsu on September 30, 2020, 05:54:04 PM
legit footage of riotous and GreatSage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOgtoQQ5Ybs
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: chronovore on February 24, 2021, 06:50:52 PM
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2021/02/epic-will-pay-off-class-action-loot-box-settlement-with-in-game-currency/

What a world we live in.

Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Tuckers Law on February 24, 2021, 07:19:17 PM
That seems like a really bad idea.  I’d expect nothing less from clown shoes Timmy.

Also: did Riotous get ultra-nuked?
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: GreatSageEqualOfHeaven on February 26, 2021, 08:10:33 AM
Please also tell more historical anecdotes about companies not involved in this lawsuit, they are super relevant.

Apparently historical records of companies not even involved in this fucking lawsuit ARE super relevant to this case, because Apple are now subpoenaing Valve, Sony, MS, Nintendo, Amazon and Samsung for full financial records of apps sold, revenue generated, profits made, etc etc etc

:mindblown

Absolute fucking insane overreach by Apple

Quote
Also: did Riotous get ultra-nuked?

He'd managed to beef with everyone on the bore and had to leave to find new beef targets
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: MMaRsu on February 27, 2021, 06:24:44 AM
Valve and console makers have also been subpoenad or whatever for the case against Epic

Valve has already been forced to produce sales data for over 400 games

I still think Epic is gonna Epicly lose the case
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Trent Dole on February 27, 2021, 08:36:00 AM
Is there any outcome to this case that doesn't result in virtually the entire rest of the industry rolling their eyes at Epic and shunning them in response? They seem to be excessively all in on what's ultimately a temporary big money maker. Oh and Apple's subpoenas are obviously fucking everyone off too.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: GreatSageEqualOfHeaven on February 27, 2021, 09:10:22 AM
If Apple weren't so fucking greedy that it's like it pains them to see someone make money where they don't get a cut, this whole stupid thing would be over already.

The people with an app on their phone who want to then go and make additional purchases, but to save ~10-20% of the asking price will go and visit a website and go through all of those steps instead of just clicking the 'buy now' button on their phone are not going to be a group of people in large enough numbers to seriously hurt apples bottom line, and there is no need to strongarm developers for offering a 'no middleman' service, especially when their product is multiplatform.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Mr Gilhaney on February 27, 2021, 09:16:39 AM
Great sage and Tim Sweeney sitting in a tree
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: GreatSageEqualOfHeaven on February 27, 2021, 09:40:53 AM
Tim Sweeney can go eat a dick, but it doesn't mean he's in the wrong on this one.

How can Apple honestly justify shit like this?
https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/21/21396316/apple-wordpress-in-app-purchase-tax-update-store
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: chronovore on February 27, 2021, 08:55:05 PM
That seems like a really bad idea.  I’d expect nothing less from clown shoes Timmy.

Also: did Riotous get ultra-nuked?

Whoa, no Member listing? That’s ironic.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Tasty on March 16, 2021, 01:42:15 PM
Google cutting Play Store commission to 15% on first $1 million in revenue for all Android devs (https://9to5google.com/2021/03/16/google-play-store-commission/)

Googs trying to seem like the good guys lol.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: GreatSageEqualOfHeaven on March 16, 2021, 01:53:22 PM
Google cutting Play Store commission to 15% on first $1 million in revenue for all Android devs (https://9to5google.com/2021/03/16/google-play-store-commission/)

Googs trying to seem like the good guys lol.

Interesting, thats almost the inverse of steams sliding scale, where it lowers the more you make.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Tasty on March 16, 2021, 01:57:36 PM
https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2021/03/boosting-dev-success.html

Quote
Starting on July 1, 2021 we are reducing the service fee Google Play receives when a developer sells digital goods or services to 15% for the first $1M (USD) of revenue every developer earns each year. With this change, 99% of developers globally that sell digital goods and services with Play will see a 50% reduction in fees.

:o
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Tasty on March 16, 2021, 01:58:53 PM
https://9to5mac.com/2020/11/18/app-store-small-business-program/

Oh Apple already announced something similar lol.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Nintex on March 16, 2021, 06:49:42 PM
Nintendo will not lower the fees :miyamoto
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Tasty on September 10, 2021, 01:30:11 PM
https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/10/22662320/epic-apple-ruling-injunction-judge-court-app-store

Can't say I didn't see this coming and said as much on multiple occasions
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Tasty on September 10, 2021, 01:31:09 PM
This is a victory for basically everyone and a loss for Apple. Rejoice!

Maybe not, Apple's happy and Sweeney's not. :lol Guess I should read further before posting, my bad.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: GreatSageEqualOfHeaven on September 10, 2021, 02:03:04 PM
This is a victory for basically everyone and a loss for Apple. Rejoice!

Maybe not, Apple's happy and Sweeney's not. :lol Guess I should read further before posting, my bad.

Apple are 'happy' they were 'only' behaving in anti-competitive ways, and aren't in the firing line for a big class action antitrust.
Epic are pissed they got what they claimed they wanted, but have to pay the fees for everything up to now  :lol
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: HardcoreRetro on September 10, 2021, 02:25:10 PM
So they both kinda lost? Best outcome.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: benjipwns on September 11, 2021, 03:40:12 AM
I don't think Apple really lost anything considering what Epic was trying to do, Epic lost on darn near literally everything.

It's funny how many outlets read the topline and ran with "EPIC WINS IT ALL, APPLE TO BE SHUTDOWN PERMANENTLY" headlines. Lawyers on Twitter trying to explain it to people are getting plastered with "NO, SEE KOTAKU SAYS FORTNITE BACK ON IOS." :lol
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: Nintex on September 11, 2021, 04:18:47 AM
It opens the door for alternative payment methods but not getting around the tim apple tax
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: chronovore on September 30, 2021, 08:04:30 PM
This is a victory for basically everyone and a loss for Apple. Rejoice!

Maybe not, Apple's happy and Sweeney's not. :lol Guess I should read further before posting, my bad.
Quote
On Twitter, Epic CEO Tim Sweeney expressed disappointment in the order. “Today’s ruling isn’t a win for developers or for consumers,” Sweeney said. “Epic is fighting for fair competition among in-app payment methods and app stores for a billion consumers.” Separately, an Epic Games spokesperson told NPR that the company plans to appeal.
This sounds entirely reasonable.
Right now, using the Amazon app on my phone, I'm unable to purchase any digital content. There are not any restrictions on physical items. Unless consumers are keeping up with these lawsuits, it makes no sense. The idea that I can move to the Safari browser on my phone and face no limitations, but a SPEFIC APP for the storefront won't allow it is bullshit.

So with this Amazon will likely have a "launch browser" button for digital sales, inside their app. Fortnite will have a "launch browser" button to allow for the same. This is a minor win for consumers, while companies continue to treat consumers badly out of greed. News at 11.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: benjipwns on September 30, 2021, 08:28:49 PM
Yeah, "launch browser" is what everyone will do, a good number of f2p apps already do it so they can avoid the storefronts altogether and send you to their site. (Google more or less unofficially "endorsed" (by saying it wasn't not allowed) this when the Epic lawsuit started as their solution for anyone with complaints.)

Still, Epic's going about this the wrong way though, Apple will never be ordered to run their store in a way they don't want. Epic should be using their "alliance" of paid for developers along with Fortnite and try to bring Apple to the table on their own and work out a deal just for themselves. They're throwing away tons of money, goodwill and who knows what else trying to litigate this based around a completely insane theory that Apple is a monopoly because Apple controls 100% of the Apple phone market.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: chronovore on September 30, 2021, 08:31:38 PM
Exactly.

I wonder if that was actually attempted prior to this lawsuit. It must have been. But, jesus, what an insane act of hubris on Epic's part.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: HardcoreRetro on October 01, 2021, 07:40:55 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euiSHuaw6Q4

Still makes me laugh.
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: benjipwns on October 07, 2021, 08:21:49 AM
https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/1444125331544322049
https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/1445517299406938122

 :dead
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: chronovore on October 07, 2021, 10:40:58 PM
https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/1444125331544322049
https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/1445517299406938122

 :dead
What the fuck does he actually think he’s saying, here?
Title: Re: Apple Removes Fortnite from the App Store
Post by: GreatSageEqualOfHeaven on October 08, 2021, 03:52:43 PM
What the fuck does he actually think he’s saying, here?

He's saying the "free market" applies to both consumers and suppliers, and they are "free" to buy or sell wherever they wish.

What he's neglecting to mention is that in a free market, the customers actually have more power because if they don't like where you're selling your product, they won't fucking buy it, and in a market of largely interchangeable goods that all fall under the blanket term 'entertainment', suppliers who don't listen to what their customers want will - in an actual free market - die, while suppliers who will will thrive.

What he's doing with EGS is basically the same as subsidising less popular goods, because all things being equal people would rather not buy on EGS.
Subsidies on noncompetitive products, and tariffs on more popular ones you can't control are anathema to 'free market' ideologies, and I'm sure he knows it.