These and the both sides are bad fuckers really annoy me. It's like no, one side may be just a status quo democrat, but the other's idea of a status quo is setting back America to some 1950s golden era that never existed. Complete with unsubtly wanting race and gender roles to be just like they envisioned the 50s to be.
Though also right now that "don't mock a sick man who has done nothing but mock" are up there as well.
They're fucking stupid.
They're fucking stupid.
In a swing state, sure. In a solid red or blue state, who gives a fuck.
In a swing state, sure. In a solid red or blue state, who gives a fuck.
If that's the case, going thru the effort to vote, instead of not voting, is even more stupid.
Hello! I am a European who does not understand how your system works!
The most successful "grassroots" revolt in my lifetime against a major US party was the Tea Partythis is as much an indictment though, right?
this is as much an indictment though, right?You're going to have to elaborate. I'm sure I'll agree with whatever examples you come up with (like the deficit being way larger now than it was under obama) but in my memory they sabotaged nearly successful, important, bipartisan deals like immigration reform and some other shit. And they hijacked the party message for fucking 8 years. Poor Boehner.
i mean that the tea partiers were bankrolled by murdoch and the kochs- what i assumed you were referring to by putting grassroots in scare quotes.this is as much an indictment though, right?You're going to have to elaborate.
i mean that the tea partiers were bankrolled by murdoch and the kochs- what i assumed you were referring to by putting grassroots in scare quotes.That's exactly what I meant, yeah :mjcry
while i ultimately agree that ‘entryism’, of some variety, is probably more efficacious than...well anything else in american politics, it cant bode well if ‘entryism’ only works because capital eventually acknowledges the entrants, rebrands itself, and domesticates the movement
Hello! I am a European who does not understand how your system works!
:wow
Despite having several Democrat administrations, the US hasn't been able to adopt even the most basic social safety ideas, labor protections that are commonplace in Western Europe.
I don't think you understand the recent political history of the US and what late 70s inflation, the Reagan administration, and the success of the new Democrats did to the left wing.
Hello! I am an American who is not really familiar with European history.
I don't really see what it has to do with the principle of third party voting (or not voting).You're saying entryism doesn't work but my point is there were no entryists. The left wing was wiped out by Reagan. Monetarists blamed inflation on misbehaving labor and full employment policies. It was much harder to be elected as a liberal because the voters didn't want it - Reagan saved the economy by destroying unions. The decimation of an organized working class is a scar that affects American politics to this day.
I don't really see what it has to do with the principle of third party voting (or not voting).You're saying entryism doesn't work but my point is there were no entryists. The left wing was wiped out by Reagan. Monetarists blamed inflation on misbehaving labor and full employment policies. It was much harder to be elected as a liberal because the voters didn't want it - Reagan saved the economy by destroying unions. The decimation of an organized working class is a scar that affects American politics to this day.
Before the arguments spin out into various dead-end tangents, let's all just note that nobody in the thread actually wants to make a positive case for voting third party.
The positive case is voting for what you believe in, regardless of the "efficiency" of the vote.
It doesn't go really deeper than that. Does it need to ?
I already know you had them. Monetarism was even tried and discredited in the UK before America. Now:Despite having several Democrat administrations, the US hasn't been able to adopt even the most basic social safety ideas, labor protections that are commonplace in Western Europe.Western Europe implemented those social programs way before Third Way liberalism. If you're asking "why did Europe get it done but the Americans could not", this might sound like a cop-out but I would say it's because the narrow time frame between the postwar period and the neoliberal period Americans were preoccupied with the anti-war movement and desegregation. While '68 was happening in France, Martin Luther King Jr. was being assassinated.
I would also like multiparty democracy with no term limits and 15 years of uninterrupted socialist rule :goty
[poop]the problem with this narrative is that it’s wrong on the details, but it’s not like thats ever stopped you before
me, in the cut, waiting for the discussion to swing around to imaginings of a democratic polity other than elective republics::moneyyou're such a sortition dork. Might as well decide matters by consulting I Ching
it’s not just sortition though! it’s also about being a maximalist about direct voting on referenda! and creating an expansive public forum for the purposes of deliberation. and...wait, where are you going?
an expansive public forum for the purposes of deliberationsorry, buddy... I believe in the division of labor
We have this. It's called Facebook. :existentialthats why you tax the shit out of the top brackets + set max wages while arguing for the transfer of all these democratizing mechanisms into the private sector at the level of the firm :rollsafe. and somehow (dont @ me) encouraging socialization of capital beyond just nationalization
[pee]can you imagine the coward mandark having the gall to label these posts ‘dead-end tangents’? :success
And I would probably vote Dem if I was a US citizen.
I would also like multiparty democracy with no term limits and 15 years of uninterrupted socialist rule :goty
Since I was talking to Vom I was referring to Mitterand's presidency, however you want to describe that
Since I was talking to Vom I was referring to Mitterand's presidency, however you want to describe that
They're fucking stupid.