THE BORE

General => Video Game Bored => Topic started by: mormapope on January 23, 2021, 02:22:35 PM

Title: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: mormapope on January 23, 2021, 02:22:35 PM
"The Japanese console market is dying"

Meanwhile, the Switch is on track for being one of the best selling consoles of all time, with the best library of 1st party software ever, and Nintendo still has cards to play regarding all their IPs. Was the best selling console globally during a pandemic and things aren't really slowing down.

I guess people equate Playstation with how relevant Japanese software is.  :lol
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Great Rumbler on January 23, 2021, 03:13:37 PM
Remember when people were arguing that home consoles were on the way out in favor of mobile gaming?
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: thetylerrob on January 23, 2021, 03:19:44 PM
The Switch is a handheld and an underpowered console. They're saying the console market is dying because Japanese devs are going to have to decide between developing for an old ass Nintendie console or next gen consoles that only westerners have. Mobage have been killing everything anyway so w/e I guess.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: HardcoreRetro on January 23, 2021, 03:24:30 PM
"The writing in The Last of Us: Part 2 is good."
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Don Rumata on January 23, 2021, 03:32:24 PM
"Naughty Dog makes movies, not games!"
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Rufus on January 23, 2021, 03:42:45 PM
Maybe a bit too specific, but these guys:
https://www.reddit.com/r/LowSodiumCyberpunk/comments/l2smgz/how_cyberpunk_2077_is_the_fallout_new_vegas_of/
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Human Snorenado on January 23, 2021, 03:47:28 PM
Kojima is a great writer! He's held back by Konami, wait until he's free to do what he wants!
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Pissy F Benny on January 23, 2021, 04:23:41 PM
Death Stranding was the Kojima I want tho :trumps
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Himu on January 23, 2021, 05:38:33 PM
When people said switch would bomb.

Was a pretty fucking safe bet. Nintendo putting its handheld line up (which always sells) on a console equivalent smelled like money. Anyone with any knowledge in the Japanese market or franchises like Animal Crossing, knew Switch would be as big as it is. Instead you had people like Lager betting me it wouldn't even crack 40k. Gamers rarely have any fucking clue what they're talking about.
Title: gdi pascal
Post by: Tasty on January 23, 2021, 06:03:02 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/GfWmApB.jpg)
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Nintex on January 23, 2021, 06:26:07 PM
"The Japanese console market is dying"

Meanwhile, the Switch is on track for being one of the best selling consoles of all time, with the best library of 1st party software ever, and Nintendo still has cards to play regarding all their IPs. Was the best selling console globally during a pandemic and things aren't really slowing down.

I guess people equate Playstation with how relevant Japanese software is.  :lol
It has to do with Capcom, Square Enix, Namco etc. making their games mostly for overseas markets now.
Nintendo might be selling really well but nobody else is, so that's kinda a challenge they're having.
PS5 is dead in the water in Japan and Sony is allocating more units to the US and EU.

It used to be that you had about 2 or 3 platforms that did well vs. just one system that sells and Nintendo has a limited range of titles.
I think on Sony's part this was just part of their strategy and they will push a revised smaller and cheaper PS5 Slim model more heavily in Japan once the software is there to back it up but will it be fast enough before the bottom drops out of the PlayStation brand in Japan?
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Human Snorenado on January 23, 2021, 06:56:53 PM
Death Stranding was the Kojima I want tho :trumps

I'm so sorry. Have you had that looked at?
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Rahxephon91 on January 23, 2021, 07:34:15 PM
That Cyberpunk 2077 is a bad game.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Himu on January 23, 2021, 08:06:54 PM
"The Japanese console market is dying"

Meanwhile, the Switch is on track for being one of the best selling consoles of all time, with the best library of 1st party software ever, and Nintendo still has cards to play regarding all their IPs. Was the best selling console globally during a pandemic and things aren't really slowing down.

I guess people equate Playstation with how relevant Japanese software is.  :lol
It has to do with Capcom, Square Enix, Namco etc. making their games mostly for overseas markets now.
Nintendo might be selling really well but nobody else is, so that's kinda a challenge they're having.
PS5 is dead in the water in Japan and Sony is allocating more units to the US and EU.

It used to be that you had about 2 or 3 platforms that did well vs. just one system that sells and Nintendo has a limited range of titles.
I think on Sony's part this was just part of their strategy and they will push a revised smaller and cheaper PS5 Slim model more heavily in Japan once the software is there to back it up but will it be fast enough before the bottom drops out of the PlayStation brand in Japan?

PS5 is about the size of a third of a Japanese apartment. Sony has done nothing to retain Japanese interest. It even changed the accept from circle to cross in Japan. Consoles aren't dead in Japan. Sony has dropped the ball, doesn't make games or consoles for Japanese audiences in the pursuit of a more international market, and Sony's closest competitor - Microsoft - is LOL status in Japan. This leaves Nintendo as the only real option.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: tiesto on January 23, 2021, 10:42:17 PM
Japanese games were bad in the 360/PS3 era. A few of the biggest series had flops or games that weren't nearly as good as their predecessors (MGS and FF), but there were still tons of high quality and unique games that came out in that era.

Between the crash and the release of the original Xbox, there weren't any good/popular western games on consoles.

Every game needs to be 100+ hours and packed to the brim with side content

Linearity = Bad

Turn based RPGs are only worth playing on portables
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Don Rumata on January 23, 2021, 11:20:47 PM
Japanese games were bad in the 360/PS3 era.
It's not that they were bad, it's that they lost dominance compared to the ps2 era, imo.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Potato on January 24, 2021, 01:31:18 AM
That Call of Duty and GTA games are targeted at adults.

The core audience for those games are teenagers, not adults.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Tasty on January 24, 2021, 08:37:08 AM
Japanese games were bad in the 360/PS3 era.

Wonder what Capcom and Inafune were up to that gen...
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Let's Cyber on January 24, 2021, 10:24:31 AM
"Open world games are always boring."
the Switch is on track for being one of the best selling consoles of all time, with the best library of 1st party software ever
to be fair, this was only possible because the WiiU flopped so hard and a lot of the titles were reborn on Switch.

It would have been a travesty if all those great WiiU games had been left to rot on a failed console.
Kojima is a great writer! He's held back by Konami, wait until he's free to do what he wants!
Kojima is the George Lucas of the video game industry. A good idea man that needs others to reign him in and craft his bullshit into something coherent.

 :lucas
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: tiesto on January 24, 2021, 10:56:25 AM
Japanese games were bad in the 360/PS3 era.

Wonder what Capcom and Inafune were up to that gen...

The funny thing is, Capcom started off that gen in a good spot, probably the best and most productive Japanese dev. They had a great in-house engine that they were using for all their titles... Dead Rising was one of the first big breakout hits of the Xbox 360 that also felt very 'next gen'... they nailed the retro remakes with Mega Man 9. Street Fighter IV spearheaded a huge fighting game revival. But then halfway through the gen, they totally bought into the whole "Japan is stuck in the past" narrative and proceeded to outsource their games to smaller western studios, with mostly negative results.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: bork on January 24, 2021, 11:08:10 AM
Japanese games were bad in the 360/PS3 era.

Wonder what Capcom and Inafune were up to that gen...

The funny thing is, Capcom started off that gen in a good spot, probably the best and most productive Japanese dev. They had a great in-house engine that they were using for all their titles... Dead Rising was one of the first big breakout hits of the Xbox 360 that also felt very 'next gen'... they nailed the retro remakes with Mega Man 9. Street Fighter IV spearheaded a huge fighting game revival. But then halfway through the gen, they totally bought into the whole "Japan is stuck in the past" narrative and proceeded to outsource their games to smaller western studios, with mostly negative results.

I agree with you, but they had already been underway with outsourcing games by the time SF4 and Mega Man 9 came out- the latter was outsourced and made by Inti Creates, but they're obviously way more capable than some of the other devs they gave their IPs to.  Even SF4 (and TvC before it) was made by Eighting/Dimps.

Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: bork on January 24, 2021, 11:09:37 AM
PS5 is dead in the water in Japan and Sony is allocating more units to the US and EU.

It's not dead in the water -lol- demand there is high.  Sony just doesn't seem to care, despite saying otherwise, and is clearly focusing on other markets first.

Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: mormapope on January 24, 2021, 11:12:05 AM
Japanese games were bad in the 360/PS3 era.

Wonder what Capcom and Inafune were up to that gen...

The funny thing is, Capcom started off that gen in a good spot, probably the best and most productive Japanese dev. They had a great in-house engine that they were using for all their titles... Dead Rising was one of the first big breakout hits of the Xbox 360 that also felt very 'next gen'... they nailed the retro remakes with Mega Man 9. Street Fighter IV spearheaded a huge fighting game revival. But then halfway through the gen, they totally bought into the whole "Japan is stuck in the past" narrative and proceeded to outsource their games to smaller western studios, with mostly negative results.

Street Fighter IV is a game I'll always cherish and love. Fighting games as a genre doesn't need Street Fighter, but Street Fighter IV was absolutely the peak of competitive Street Fighter play in both entertainment and talent.

It was the first fighting game where I sink hundreds of hours into, practiced, learned fundamentals and strategy that carries over to 2D fighting games, learning match ups and movesets, recognizing what makes a character's toolset powerful or weak.

Becoming an average player at SFIV was a journey that's been unmatched for me.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: bork on January 24, 2021, 11:23:16 AM
PS5 is about the size of a third of a Japanese apartment. Sony has done nothing to retain Japanese interest. It even changed the accept from circle to cross in Japan. Consoles aren't dead in Japan. Sony has dropped the ball, doesn't make games or consoles for Japanese audiences in the pursuit of a more international market, and Sony's closest competitor - Microsoft - is LOL status in Japan. This leaves Nintendo as the only real option.

I think it's safe to say that console gaming in general has definitely fallen off over there over the past decade.  That's not to say that it's all doom and gloom, but mobile gaming became way, way more popular as smart phones released.  A lot of game stores (or sections within stores) have shrunk in size or closed, but I don't know if that's because of mobile gaming or because more people started buying digital or buying online instead. 

IIRC while the Switch is a monster over there, it's all Nintendo games that are on top.  Third-party sales aren't anywhere as big (although I bet Monster Hunter Rise will be huge). 

And then with Sony, no idea what they're doing- things changed drastically after they moved their HQ to California and now American management decides what is approved for release in Japan, even if the devs have no plans for their games to be released in English.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Joe Molotov on January 24, 2021, 11:40:08 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/4b4EveX.jpg)
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: bork on January 24, 2021, 11:54:38 AM
Thinking about it, what games have Sony Japan studios made that have been extremely popular worldwide other than Gran Turismo?   Maybe Hot Shots Golf?  Possibly Parappa?
:thinking
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Mr Gilhaney on January 24, 2021, 12:34:46 PM
the world loved knack and knack 2
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Himu on January 24, 2021, 12:53:52 PM
That turn based combat is boring or bad.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Tasty on January 24, 2021, 01:07:10 PM
I'm just glad Capcom is making good games again. :blessup
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Himu on January 24, 2021, 01:18:39 PM
Thinking about it, what games have Sony Japan studios made that have been extremely popular worldwide other than Gran Turismo?   Maybe Hot Shots Golf?  Possibly Parappa?
:thinking

They used to be known for unique games. Parappa, Intelligent Qube, VibRibbon, Tokyo Jungle;etc. Not worldwide hits but unique shit.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Himu on January 24, 2021, 01:22:50 PM
PS5 is about the size of a third of a Japanese apartment. Sony has done nothing to retain Japanese interest. It even changed the accept from circle to cross in Japan. Consoles aren't dead in Japan. Sony has dropped the ball, doesn't make games or consoles for Japanese audiences in the pursuit of a more international market, and Sony's closest competitor - Microsoft - is LOL status in Japan. This leaves Nintendo as the only real option.

Japan had been moving towards mobile gaming for years.  PSP/Vita weren't big enough worldwide for them to keep investing.  Meanwhile Nintendo has been successful mobile for decades, and is only getting bigger.

It's really not them dropping the ball with home console gaming as much as them dropping the ball launching a truly successful mobile platform.  They did well in Japan, but Japan isn't big enough for Sony to invest in something that isn't taking off as much worldwide.

It's why I'm not a big sony fan anymore despite owning over 100+ ps2 games. I was a Japanese game fan and them changing priorities has made me more of a nintendo diehard.

Whatever, gaming is stupid now for the most part.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Nintex on January 24, 2021, 01:23:39 PM
Another recent one that didn't make sense was that Keanu Reeves pressured CD Project Red to make Cyberpunk 2077 about his character and storyline and they had to rework the entire game which is why it was released in a less than optimal state. :doge
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Himu on January 24, 2021, 01:36:04 PM
Well PlayStation is doing incredibly well.   

As is Nintendo;  they are insanely good at their niche (widely accessible games that aren't pushing graphical boundaries.)   

Sony is raking in the dough as being the premiere platform for 3rd parties though.   Their largest chunk of revenue is from DLC/MTX.   And considering their own games aren't heavy on those, that means they are just raking in that money by just being popular for those games.   

It's just kind of hard to describe what they are doing as "dropping the ball" to me.   Japan moved away from home console gaming, and Nintendo is incredibly difficult to compete with in that arena.    It's hard to be everything to everybody, trying to do that is not necessarily a recipe for success.

Dropping the ball per my own tastes. Sony isn't the same Sony I fell in love with. A publisher of unique games has been morphed into western dad gaming bullshit all about feels. It makes me want to barf.

Def not the same Sony that published Rule of Rose or ICO.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Mr. Nobody on January 24, 2021, 01:37:48 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/4b4EveX.jpg)

Every. Fucking. Time.  :rage
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: mormapope on January 24, 2021, 01:46:34 PM
That turn based combat is boring or bad.

To sorta add to this, that for Paper Mario to be good, it needs Thousand Year Door combat. Ive only played a bit of Origami King, but the gameplay is pretty good and refreshing regarding Paper Mario.

Origami King got slammed before release, and it ended up being a game thats equal to Thousand Year Door where it counts.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Himu on January 24, 2021, 01:48:01 PM
That turn based combat is boring or bad.

To sorta add to this, that for Paper Mario to be good, it needs Thousand Year Door combat. Ive only played a bit of Origami King, but the gameplay is pretty good and refreshing regarding Paper Mario.

Origami King got slammed before release, and it ended up being a game thats equal to Thousand Year Door where it counts.
I've heard great things about that game.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Human Snorenado on January 24, 2021, 01:51:44 PM
Well PlayStation is doing incredibly well.   

As is Nintendo;  they are insanely good at their niche (widely accessible games that aren't pushing graphical boundaries.)   

Sony is raking in the dough as being the premiere platform for 3rd parties though.   Their largest chunk of revenue is from DLC/MTX.   And considering their own games aren't heavy on those, that means they are just raking in that money by just being popular for those games.   

It's just kind of hard to describe what they are doing as "dropping the ball" to me.   Japan moved away from home console gaming, and Nintendo is incredibly difficult to compete with in that arena.    It's hard to be everything to everybody, trying to do that is not necessarily a recipe for success.

Dropping the ball per my own tastes. Sony isn't the same Sony I fell in love with. A publisher of unique games has been morphed into western dad gaming bullshit all about feels. It makes me want to barf.

Def not the same Sony that published Rule of Rose or ICO.

Yeah ICO was all about the gameplay

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0c/96/c7/0c96c781a5e6260d0827848aec47d205.gif)

Your opinion is valid, but you're lying to yourself about what it actually is: Sony isn't making games that hit you in YOUR feels anymore
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: HardcoreRetro on January 24, 2021, 02:31:40 PM
I liked when Cloud did a dance at the gay bar.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: kingv on January 24, 2021, 03:31:10 PM
Well PlayStation is doing incredibly well.   

As is Nintendo;  they are insanely good at their niche (widely accessible games that aren't pushing graphical boundaries.)   

Sony is raking in the dough as being the premiere platform for 3rd parties though.   Their largest chunk of revenue is from DLC/MTX.   And considering their own games aren't heavy on those, that means they are just raking in that money by just being popular for those games.   

It's just kind of hard to describe what they are doing as "dropping the ball" to me.   Japan moved away from home console gaming, and Nintendo is incredibly difficult to compete with in that arena.    It's hard to be everything to everybody, trying to do that is not necessarily a recipe for success.

Yeah, I agree. As games get more and more expensive to make, it sort of makes sense for the companies to lean into their strengths more and more.

Sony has leaned into its western focused exclusives, Nintendo has figured out how to align behind a strong slate of first party Nintendo-style games playable anywhere, and MS seems to be leaning into Xbox as a platform powered by various services playable across multiple devices because this is something they can do more easily than Sony.

Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Rahxephon91 on January 24, 2021, 03:41:35 PM
I liked when Cloud did a dance at the gay bar.
This isn’t false. It was the best part of the game.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Himu on January 24, 2021, 04:02:58 PM
Well PlayStation is doing incredibly well.   

As is Nintendo;  they are insanely good at their niche (widely accessible games that aren't pushing graphical boundaries.)   

Sony is raking in the dough as being the premiere platform for 3rd parties though.   Their largest chunk of revenue is from DLC/MTX.   And considering their own games aren't heavy on those, that means they are just raking in that money by just being popular for those games.   

It's just kind of hard to describe what they are doing as "dropping the ball" to me.   Japan moved away from home console gaming, and Nintendo is incredibly difficult to compete with in that arena.    It's hard to be everything to everybody, trying to do that is not necessarily a recipe for success.

Dropping the ball per my own tastes. Sony isn't the same Sony I fell in love with. A publisher of unique games has been morphed into western dad gaming bullshit all about feels. It makes me want to barf.

Def not the same Sony that published Rule of Rose or ICO.

Yeah ICO was all about the gameplay

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0c/96/c7/0c96c781a5e6260d0827848aec47d205.gif)

Your opinion is valid, but you're lying to yourself about what it actually is: Sony isn't making games that hit you in YOUR feels anymore

Ico barely has any cutscenes. I don't think it's the greatest but I would rather experience something unique than something sterile and polished even if what I'm playing isn't perfect.

I know you have a hate relationship with ICO but I think you're in the minority about it.

Also, it's not even about feels for me. It's about variety and diversity of content. The same Sony that published ICO also made games like Fantavision and published Demons Souls. You are focusing too much on the game I listed (ICO) than my overall message.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: bork on January 24, 2021, 05:40:25 PM
Thinking about it, what games have Sony Japan studios made that have been extremely popular worldwide other than Gran Turismo?   Maybe Hot Shots Golf?  Possibly Parappa?
:thinking

They used to be known for unique games. Parappa, Intelligent Qube, VibRibbon, Tokyo Jungle;etc. Not worldwide hits but unique shit.

Right- and then if you look at the western side, you've got mega-hits like God Of War, Uncharted, etc.  Just more wondering if this is what factored into the decision to put 'Murica in charge.

I am right there with you.  I miss all the quirky and unique games we used to get from them on the PS1 and PS2.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Himu on January 24, 2021, 05:49:40 PM
Thinking about it, what games have Sony Japan studios made that have been extremely popular worldwide other than Gran Turismo?   Maybe Hot Shots Golf?  Possibly Parappa?
:thinking

They used to be known for unique games. Parappa, Intelligent Qube, VibRibbon, Tokyo Jungle;etc. Not worldwide hits but unique shit.

Right- and then if you look at the western side, you've got mega-hits like God Of War, Uncharted, etc.  Just more wondering if this is what factored into the decision to put 'Murica in charge.

I am right there with you.  I miss all the quirky and unique games we used to get from them on the PS1 and PS2.

well that's what I loved about Sony. They had the Japan side which would do crazy shit like Tokyo Jungle and then you had the western side making Jak and Daxter or God of War or Mark of the Kri. It helped coexistence between two different regions and helps solidify Sony as a company with a wider game portfolio than say, Nintendo or Microsoft. They did everything and they did it well. And now they don't do everything - they appeal to a specific subset of gamers. It's just really depressing as a (former) Sony stan.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: who is ted danson? on January 25, 2021, 03:36:39 AM
#DRIVECLUB

"PC exclusives are all either RTS or MMORPG"

Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: HardcoreRetro on January 25, 2021, 03:45:45 AM
I liked when Cloud did a dance at the gay bar.
This isn’t false. It was the best part of the game.

I was talking about Cindi's thing about Sony games.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Don Rumata on January 25, 2021, 07:43:43 AM
Well PlayStation is doing incredibly well.   

As is Nintendo;  they are insanely good at their niche (widely accessible games that aren't pushing graphical boundaries.)   

Sony is raking in the dough as being the premiere platform for 3rd parties though.   Their largest chunk of revenue is from DLC/MTX.   And considering their own games aren't heavy on those, that means they are just raking in that money by just being popular for those games.   

It's just kind of hard to describe what they are doing as "dropping the ball" to me.   Japan moved away from home console gaming, and Nintendo is incredibly difficult to compete with in that arena.    It's hard to be everything to everybody, trying to do that is not necessarily a recipe for success.

Dropping the ball per my own tastes. Sony isn't the same Sony I fell in love with. A publisher of unique games has been morphed into western dad gaming bullshit all about feels. It makes me want to barf.

Def not the same Sony that published Rule of Rose or ICO.

Yeah ICO was all about the gameplay

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0c/96/c7/0c96c781a5e6260d0827848aec47d205.gif)

Your opinion is valid, but you're lying to yourself about what it actually is: Sony isn't making games that hit you in YOUR feels anymore

Ico barely has any cutscenes. I don't think it's the greatest but I would rather experience something unique than something sterile and polished even if what I'm playing isn't perfect.

I know you have a hate relationship with ICO but I think you're in the minority about it.

Also, it's not even about feels for me. It's about variety and diversity of content. The same Sony that published ICO also made games like Fantavision and published Demons Souls. You are focusing too much on the game I listed (ICO) than my overall message.
Seems like they want to coagulate money into fewer, bigger projects that appeal to the US (and Euro) market, those experiments, as cool as they were, didn't amount to much in terms of sales, although i'd argue are a solid part of what built Sony's "prestige" image, along side the Last of Us and Dad of War.
So in the long run, shrinking their type of offer may backfire.

But then again console gaming is probably going away in the next few decades, as cloud becomes more and more viable.
Serious, adult oriented prestige experiences is the image they're building, and i don't know if it makes sense for them to deviate from that.

I think if Sony had released Animal Crossing NH, same exact game, it wouldn't have been as successful, because of how it ties in with Nintendo's image, so maybe they felt all those quirky games were just dead weight that no longer worked for their image.


Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Himu on January 25, 2021, 10:19:54 AM
Animal Crossing NH's success is due to years of work from Nintendo. Well over a decade. You can't just put Animal Crossing NH on PS4 and hope for success without the work. Also there's potential in it on the PS4 platform. There was a farming rpg released just the other month that was very popular.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: mormapope on January 25, 2021, 11:14:58 AM
I mean, Stardew Valley has been huge for years. Animal Crossing has a lot more charm and production value than Stardew Valley.

The farming/life genre has grown a lot overtime. Animal Crossing resonates with people more easily, and the type of game it is, releasing that during a pandemic couldn't have been more perfect timing, lol.  :lol
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Himu on January 25, 2021, 11:35:30 AM
That too, but it ignores Nintendo banked off the good will and hype of New Leaf.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Don Rumata on January 25, 2021, 11:43:20 AM
I'm not saying AC hasn't got its merits for selling like it did, my point is the image you build for your company is a big factor, and Sony's Playstation image of console for grown ups (which has always been, but the market evolved what that actually means) probably doesn't include quirky Japanese games and Anime horny titles.


As i said, i think they're oversteering, ending up with a potentially very stale line up, but we'll see.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Raist on January 25, 2021, 12:59:25 PM
CDPR makes great games.

Don't @ me
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: bork on January 25, 2021, 02:39:53 PM
As i said, i think they're oversteering, ending up with a potentially very stale line up, but we'll see.

It's already stale. 

(https://i.redd.it/prj9zd9pxy131.jpg)

It's a dumb joke, but why is nearly everything they release a "third-person cinematic adventure?"  They're doing better than Microsoft, who has...Forza and the occasional Gears or Halo, but their first-party offerings really fell off in terms of variety IMO.  Guess it doesn't really matter when they're selling so many units.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: tiesto on January 25, 2021, 02:39:58 PM
Yeah, I'm definitely among the same boat who misses the interesting Sony roster of the PS1 and 2 era. Arc the Lad, Wild Arms, Velldeselba Senki (a steampunk air combat game crossed with an RPG), Parappa, Ico, SOTC, Wipeout, Gunners Heaven, Vib Ribbon, Twisted Metal, Popolocrois, those weird Artdink games that I think they published, Motor Toon Grand Prix, Jak, Sly Cooper, Philosoma, Legend of Dragoon. You had racing games, platformers, RPGs, quirky sims, artsy type games...

A diverse 1st party is probably more important than ever for Sony, since MS was attacked for being "the Gears, Forza, and Halo company" last gen. And now, MS went and heavily expanded their first party, including with lots of devs known for niche games (Obsidian, Ninja Theory). What will happen when people wear on the "3rd person MACHOOR cinematic action game"?
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: bork on January 25, 2021, 02:45:17 PM
Yeah, I'm definitely among the same boat who misses the interesting Sony roster of the PS1 and 2 era. Arc the Lad, Wild Arms, Velldeselba Senki (a steampunk air combat game crossed with an RPG), Parappa, Ico, SOTC, Wipeout, Gunners Heaven, Vib Ribbon, Twisted Metal, Popolocrois, those weird Artdink games that I think they published, Motor Toon Grand Prix, Jak, Sly Cooper, Philosoma, Legend of Dragoon. You had racing games, platformers, RPGs, quirky sims, artsy type games...

Pour one out for 'em.
 :tocry

Jumping Flash!, Intelligent Cube, Omega Boost, Ape Escape, Patapon...and let's not forget some of the games they initially published in Japan that got released elsewhere by other companies, including Ghost In The Shell, Tenchu, and Devil Dice.  PS1, PSP, and PS2 were on fire.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: tiesto on January 25, 2021, 02:46:23 PM
Japanese games were bad in the 360/PS3 era.
It's not that they were bad, it's that they lost dominance compared to the ps2 era, imo.

Even me, the biggest weeb, can admit the challenges and the reasons why Japanese games lost a bit of market dominance in the 360/PS3 era (consumer move to handhelds, not adapting to middleware and other modern dev trends, the genres they historically excel at lost favor in the west, halfhearted attempts to mimic western trends, console exclusivity for so many games, practically inventing indie gaming with Cave Story and Touhou but never capitalizing while western indie games blew up massively, etc). Doesn't mean they still made some killer stuff. My comment was more referring to the fact you had all these thrift-store brown blazer, scraggly haired, thick glasses wearing hipster indie devs and game journalists loudly proclaiming how Japanese games SUCK and chomping at the bit to declare Japan "dead" and irrelevant and obsolete.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Himu on January 25, 2021, 02:49:12 PM
The Sony of today would never make Ape Escape.

Sony might be worse than Sega in letting their properties rot. Actually, they are worse.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: bork on January 25, 2021, 03:04:19 PM
The Sony of today would never make Ape Escape.

Sony might be worse than Sega in letting their properties rot. Actually, they are worse.

Sony fell off, but that's OK- found that same kind of vibe with PC and Switch. 
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Rahxephon91 on January 25, 2021, 09:55:16 PM
Sony literally published better Japanese games on the PS4 than they ever did on the PS3.  Astro Bot, Gravity Rush 2, and Bloodborne are infinitely better than Genji 2 or Aquanauts Holiday(exaggerating but I don’t think PS3 output was that much better with the list wars)They also bankrolled two Japanese artsy games with Death Stranding and The Last Guardian. Somehow made two Knack games. Let From Software make some VR game about a weird ghost in a European school.

And for all you talk about they just make sad dad games, they also published Helldivers, Until Dawn, The Tomorrow Children, Everybody's Golf, gave Wipeout another chance, Farpoint, Blood and Truth, Firewall, The stupid Playlink stuff, Shadow of the Colossus again, Detriot and David Cage's crap in general, Concrete Genie, MediEvil Remake, Sackboy and fucking Dreams.

Ghost of Tsushima is yeah an open-world game and it's not a game I'm particularly into, but it's also a game with a setting that few developers would ever make a AAA game in. People asked for years for Ubisoft to it, and instead Sucker Punk made a better game than Ubisoft ever would have.

Honestly when some of you guy's talk about Sony, it really does come off as "it's not like how it was when I was a teen so it sucks". Like between retail, vr, and digital Sony has published a wide range of video games. Maybe not everything is to your liking, maybe none of it is. But I think it's untrue to say they haven't put out unique things during the PS4 gen.


I won't argue that there are as many nifty and out there games as the PS2/PS1 gen. Of course not, but then again there are fewer games in general. Games don't take one year to make anymore. They take 2-5 years now. You're going to get less stuff. You're going to get safer things. I'm no Nintendo fan, but despite them having one platform now, it seems they have had fewer games thanks to HD development. Uninformed opinion maybe, but it also seems they've doubled down on established ips more and more as well. These are just part of reality in regards to games today. I’m sure many moves l have led to this. Japan isn't as big of a market. Sony has doubled down on the AAA formula that works. Of course, I think there's a world of difference between  Horizon, Uncharted, God of War, and even say Spider-man. But unlike the other two, they've also invested in VR. Blood and Truth is one of my favorite VR games in general. Farpoint and Firewall are also strong titles that are up there with Alyx in showing the possibilities of VR.

I mean yeah it's not the PS2 and will never be the PS2 again. But I don't know, I really liked the PS4 and I think Sony has been a strong publisher.

Yeah, you can say and it's probably true that Sony of today wouldn't publish Ape Escape. Would Japan even make Ape Escape today? As a fan of even current-day Japanese games who does think things are a bit better now on the console front(PS4, Switch, and yeah PC), this isn't the Japanese game scene of my teens.  The troupes have become more apparent. The waifus are more commercialized. The oatku are more pandered too.  And yet they are also more and more aware of their international fanbase and acting accordingly. I feel like they are also in a midst of change and who knows where they will end up.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: naff on January 26, 2021, 03:51:46 PM
i don't see why sony wouldn't publish a game like ape escape now lol. is astro bot not in a similar vein? is demon's souls a safe bet now? psvr was a gamble also, the fisher price headset of vr headsets but goddamn those crazy bastards actually did it. m$ on the other hand has a whole vr ecosystem they pushed without a single mention of xbox support.

can't deny they make a lot of third person cinematic experiences. at least they're all pretty damn good.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: naff on January 26, 2021, 03:55:21 PM
i guess ape escape is a fait bit higher concept than the fairly traditional 3d platformer astro bot is. that first time i played through it in vr though it felt p revolutionary to me. the new non vr title is pretty great too.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on January 26, 2021, 08:31:31 PM
I don’t like AAA “experiences” so Sony’s first party lineup hasn’t been interesting in a long time.

It’s probably why this former hater of Nintendo has been Switch only for years: I really don’t care about AAA experiences and Microsoft’s annual or biennial iterations of Forza, Gears, Halo, etc. is boring as fuck.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: HardcoreRetro on January 27, 2021, 06:29:25 AM
I don’t like AAA “experiences” so Sony’s first party lineup hasn’t been interesting in a long time.

It’s probably why this former hater of Nintendo has been Switch only for years: I really don’t care about AAA experiences and Microsoft’s annual or biennial iterations of Forza, Gears, Halo, etc. is boring as fuck.

Thinking about this. I would love a Mushroom Kingdom DLC for one of the Forza Horizon games. The LEGO and Hot Wheels ones were really cool as well.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: bork on January 27, 2021, 07:27:04 AM
Honestly when some of you guy's talk about Sony, it really does come off as "it's not like how it was when I was a teen so it sucks". Like between retail, vr, and digital Sony has published a wide range of video games. Maybe not everything is to your liking, maybe none of it is. But I think it's untrue to say they haven't put out unique things during the PS4 gen.

Most of the games you listed are western-developed titles and even then, we got less variety on PS4.  What happened to Motorstorm or an FPS like Resistance?  It's like they just gave up after Killzone Shadowfall. 

We're mainly talking about the (quirky or unique) Japanese ones here and they clearly fell off with the PS3 and especially the PS4.  The unique titles and variety of genres they used to publish are gone, whether good or bad- I mean, Pipo Saru 2001 wasn't a masterpiece, but I miss the days when any kind of crazy thing would come out.  Don't forget the PSP and Vita, too. (Sony certainly did! :rimshot)

Yeah, you can say and it's probably true that Sony of today wouldn't publish Ape Escape. Would Japan even make Ape Escape today?

No, because they don't seem to be making much at all these days.
 :goty2
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: chronovore on January 28, 2021, 11:50:27 PM
i don't see why sony wouldn't publish a game like ape escape now lol. is astro bot not in a similar vein? is demon's souls a safe bet now? psvr was a gamble also, the fisher price headset of vr headsets but goddamn those crazy bastards actually did it. m$ on the other hand has a whole vr ecosystem they pushed without a single mention of xbox support.

can't deny they make a lot of third person cinematic experiences. at least they're all pretty damn good.

I think the observation is that Sony created interesting, weird games, but now they're reliant on 3rd party development to carry the platform. PS VR is also a product of Sony hardware, a different division than the software development. Apparently they don't get along well. And Sony's always anxious to ship new appliance-style electronics that change the consumer landscape. They're always going to hope to get another Walkman on the market, disrupt everything, and lead the way.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Rahxephon91 on January 29, 2021, 03:14:37 AM
I'm obviously not trying to argue against your taste. Nor do I think you're wrong about Sony not publishing those quirky titles. What I am arguing though is that despite the changes in the times and the industry, they still publish plenty of games beyond the "cinematic open-world whatever" narrative.

But I also do actually believe that in terms of Japanese games, I was much more satisfied with Japanese console output during the PS4 gen.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on January 29, 2021, 04:13:44 AM
Remember when people were arguing that home consoles were on the way out in favor of mobile gaming?

that was more of a game/tech press/analyst/bizfolk narrative tho?
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: tiesto on January 29, 2021, 09:21:26 AM
Remember when people were arguing that home consoles were on the way out in favor of mobile gaming?

that was more of a game/tech press/analyst/bizfolk narrative tho?

Never forget Segata...
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Tasty on January 29, 2021, 10:12:23 AM
Remember when people were arguing that home consoles were on the way out in favor of mobile gaming?

that was more of a game/tech press/analyst/bizfolk narrative tho?

Never forget Segata...

RIP :'(
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: tiesto on January 29, 2021, 02:11:41 PM
Another one:

You need to spend hours on end grinding in every RPG to beat them.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Don Rumata on January 29, 2021, 03:28:54 PM
i don't see why sony wouldn't publish a game like ape escape now lol. is astro bot not in a similar vein? is demon's souls a safe bet now? psvr was a gamble also, the fisher price headset of vr headsets but goddamn those crazy bastards actually did it. m$ on the other hand has a whole vr ecosystem they pushed without a single mention of xbox support.

can't deny they make a lot of third person cinematic experiences. at least they're all pretty damn good.
Yes? After 10 years of FROM worship, a relatively inexpensive remake to DeS is a very safe bet.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: EchoRin on January 29, 2021, 03:53:52 PM
i don't see why sony wouldn't publish a game like ape escape now lol. is astro bot not in a similar vein? is demon's souls a safe bet now? psvr was a gamble also, the fisher price headset of vr headsets but goddamn those crazy bastards actually did it. m$ on the other hand has a whole vr ecosystem they pushed without a single mention of xbox support.

can't deny they make a lot of third person cinematic experiences. at least they're all pretty damn good.

I think the observation is that Sony created interesting, weird games, but now they're reliant on 3rd party development to carry the platform. PS VR is also a product of Sony hardware, a different division than the software development. Apparently they don't get along well. And Sony's always anxious to ship new appliance-style electronics that change the consumer landscape. They're always going to hope to get another Walkman on the market, disrupt everything, and lead the way.

Growing up I always felt that was the case in the west all the way during the first two Playstations. Like off the top of my head any western release that was big and published by Sony for the PS1 and PS2 was Gran Turismo. Literally everything else I can't think of (Team Ico. Ok. God of War too). Twisted Metal is Sony right? They had their sports division during those 2 consoles, but they always seemed to be the lowest rated games.
But yeah the impression I got as a youngster was "Nintendo = their games mostly (which became more true post SNES), Xbox = Master Chief, Playstation = Alllllllllllllllll the third party Japanese games and even mooooooooooooore third party Japanese games, and then eeeeeeeven moooooooore third party Japanese games."

It wasn't until Playstation 3 that I started to view Sony as a bigger first party developer (regardless of ones opinions on those games). And to be fair, if someone wants to bring out a chart showing that the amount of AAA first party Sony developed titles released outside of Japan during PS1 and PS2 is actually about on par with the PS3 and PS4 then cool.

It's more just my perception from the PS1 and PS2 era. I mean you  would have thought Crash Bandicoot was a Sony franchise back then even though it wasn't. Almost the same with Metal Gear, same with Tekken, same with Silent Hill. It's why the 360 generation felt so strange when "what what what Devil May Cry 4 is gonna be on 360? FF13 will be on 360?" Of course there was obvious business sense to that, but your mind almost associated that those are simply "Playstation" brands almost.

Ironically the Xbone was so damn third party reliant, but Microsoft was and still is kind of working on the whole "service beyond everything else" as far as the Xbox ecosystem is concerned. They just happened to reload on developers now and even bought Bethesda. Though you wonder how much will be shared with other platforms. Maybe not day 1, but perhaps a year later or whatever. Really interesting how Microsoft is going about their game distribution.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Himu on January 30, 2021, 12:32:27 PM
i don't see why sony wouldn't publish a game like ape escape now lol. is astro bot not in a similar vein? is demon's souls a safe bet now? psvr was a gamble also, the fisher price headset of vr headsets but goddamn those crazy bastards actually did it. m$ on the other hand has a whole vr ecosystem they pushed without a single mention of xbox support.

can't deny they make a lot of third person cinematic experiences. at least they're all pretty damn good.

PS VR is also a product of Sony hardware, a different division than the software development. Apparently they don't get along well.

Source?
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Tuckers Law on January 30, 2021, 01:42:12 PM
I can’t recall from where I read it, but the thing about some manner of strife between Sony hardware and other divisions is ringing a bell to me, specifically one of the higher ups in the hardware is kind of an ass.  I’ll see if I can track something down.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: mormapope on January 30, 2021, 02:29:13 PM
Another one:

You need to spend hours on end grinding in every RPG to beat them.

I think completionists help create this narrative. Take something like FFX or even Souls games. FFX is around 30-40 hours to beat, but over 100 hours to 100%. Some Souls games have very rare item or equipment drops that require people to kill the same mobs over and over again.

Game length in general has grown exponentially. I'm probably around 75%-80% done with Super Mario Odyssey and I've put 50 hours into it. A 3D platformer taking over 15 hours to 100% wasn't a thing Ain any generation.

Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Himu on January 30, 2021, 03:05:19 PM
Another one:

You need to spend hours on end grinding in every RPG to beat them.

I think completionists help create this narrative. Take something like FFX or even Souls games. FFX is around 30-40 hours to beat, but over 100 hours to 100%. Some Souls games have very rare item or equipment drops that require people to kill the same mobs over and over again.

Game length in general has grown exponentially. I'm probably around 75%-80% done with Super Mario Odyssey and I've put 50 hours into it. A 3D platformer taking over 15 hours to 100% wasn't a thing Ain any generation.

It's not really completionists. Go to a gfaqs guide for an rpg and I guarantee they'll be 10-15 levels above me. The idea is that people, rather than learning to play rpgs (particularly jrpgs) they instead grind and think grinding is the required/optimal method of play.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: EchoRin on January 30, 2021, 05:21:20 PM
Me: This RPG is hard (on the difficulty I selected). I think I'm going to have to start grinding to get past the next stage.

Also me: I must never use any of my healing items and such because I might need them later. Oh the game is over and I never used them.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
not literally, but you know what I'm getting at. The amount of items I have left over really should have been used much more than I use them
[close]
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: tiesto on January 30, 2021, 07:17:17 PM
Another one:

You need to spend hours on end grinding in every RPG to beat them.

I think completionists help create this narrative. Take something like FFX or even Souls games. FFX is around 30-40 hours to beat, but over 100 hours to 100%. Some Souls games have very rare item or equipment drops that require people to kill the same mobs over and over again.

Game length in general has grown exponentially. I'm probably around 75%-80% done with Super Mario Odyssey and I've put 50 hours into it. A 3D platformer taking over 15 hours to 100% wasn't a thing Ain any generation.

It's not really completionists. Go to a gfaqs guide for an rpg and I guarantee they'll be 10-15 levels above me. The idea is that people, rather than learning to play rpgs (particularly jrpgs) they instead grind and think grinding is the required/optimal method of play.

I have a friend who's been playing RPGs since FF4 and DQ4, who still will only fight and heal... never bothers to use buff/debuff spells or do any sort of gaming the system.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Himu on January 30, 2021, 07:18:44 PM
Me: This RPG is hard (on the difficulty I selected). I think I'm going to have to start grinding to get past the next stage.

Also me: I must never use any of my healing items and such because I might need them later. Oh the game is over and I never used them.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
not literally, but you know what I'm getting at. The amount of items I have left over really should have been used much more than I use them
[close]

Pertinent commentary:

https://twitter.com/ShaunMusgrave/status/1354577567097917440

Also

https://twitter.com/ShaunMusgrave/status/1354575428929736708
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Himu on January 30, 2021, 07:22:39 PM
Another one:

You need to spend hours on end grinding in every RPG to beat them.

I think completionists help create this narrative. Take something like FFX or even Souls games. FFX is around 30-40 hours to beat, but over 100 hours to 100%. Some Souls games have very rare item or equipment drops that require people to kill the same mobs over and over again.

Game length in general has grown exponentially. I'm probably around 75%-80% done with Super Mario Odyssey and I've put 50 hours into it. A 3D platformer taking over 15 hours to 100% wasn't a thing Ain any generation.

It's not really completionists. Go to a gfaqs guide for an rpg and I guarantee they'll be 10-15 levels above me. The idea is that people, rather than learning to play rpgs (particularly jrpgs) they instead grind and think grinding is the required/optimal method of play.

I have a friend who's been playing RPGs since FF4 and DQ4, who still will only fight and heal... never bothers to use buff/debuff spells or do any sort of gaming the system.

they need prayer
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: bork on January 30, 2021, 08:48:36 PM
I'm obviously not trying to argue against your taste. Nor do I think you're wrong about Sony not publishing those quirky titles. What I am arguing though is that despite the changes in the times and the industry, they still publish plenty of games beyond the "cinematic open-world whatever" narrative.

But I also do actually believe that in terms of Japanese games, I was much more satisfied with Japanese console output during the PS4 gen.

From Sony or in general?  If you mean the former, I don't see how you'd be that satisfied compared to previous generations.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Rahxephon91 on January 31, 2021, 05:48:30 AM
Because to be honest, I don't care about "quirky" titles. I'm sure something like Tokyo Jungle is a good game for people who vibe with that, but that's not me.

I mean I look at my PS3 library and the Sony published Japanese titles are Folklore, Puppeteer, and well...Genji. Genji is straight-up bad in my opinion. The other two are ok games, nothing really that lit my fire.

Compare this to the PS4 and I have The Last Guardian, Death Stranding, Gravity Rush 2, Astro Bot, and  Bloodborne. TLG honestly being the weakest with Astro being one of the best platformers vr or not. Death Stranding being my kind of a big interesting mess of a game. Bloodborne and GR2 are up there with some of my favorite games of that gen.

Honestly, for me, it's not really a contest.

I'm sure PS2 and PS1 were full of nifty Sony published titles as well, but like most people I know you bought a PlayStation for things like GTA, FF, MGS, and so on. Maybe some people liked Wild Arms, but it hardly came close to what 3rd parties published.

Honestly, it's my narrative that Sony first-party didn't come into its own until 2nd half of the PS3. That the PS3 gen was a rather dark time for Japanese games and the PS4 gen a sort of revival.

Now obviously I have my bias as I like the big cinematic games. I've grown up on story-focused games like MGS2 and FFX. So that's where I come from.

But when I think of this Japanese PS3 era vs PS4 era. I also have to give it to the PS4 era.

Sure I liked stuff like Vanquish, Bayonetta and Platnium in general. I loved Grasshoper 's output and find their absence pretty sad. Yakuza 4 was a great game and the series was strong. Things like Valkyria Chronicles were awesome. Namco still had stuff. And also some of the early 360 support was good to me if we count that.

But I look at my jrpgs of that time and it was pretty lame honestly. I sure did'nt care for White Knight Chronicles(Ok I forgot about this Sony game). Ni No Kuni was lame and well I just dislike Level 5.  I said Namco kept trucking and they did, but outside of Vesperia I have found Tales to all just blur together in medicorecity.

But I compare this to my PS4 days and well it's a different story. Persona 5 came out(on PS3 as well, but I played it on PS4). We had one of the most beautiful jrpgs not called FF, with DQXI. Finally another Valkyria Chronicles the way people wanted with 4.  You got better jrpg stuff like Nier: Automata, The DQ Heroes games, The Mana Remakes, Kingdom Hearts 3, Blue Reflection, and so on. Falcom jumped ship to home consoles and has offered plenty of things I'm into.  I won't say they are great JRPGS, but I'll tke things like Fairy Tale, these Ryzna games, Exist Archeive, Star OCean 5(eww), and so on over the Idea Factory stuff that seemed like you had to deal with after you finished the other console PS3 jrpgs. You gotta dig deep on the PS4 before you have only those left.  Also things like Vesperia and Resonance of Fate got great ports. Hell, something like .Hack//GU port did'nt seem like it was possible on the PS3.

Capcom was great PS3 gen. I'd say they are better now. A shame Lost Planet and Dead Rising died, but Resident Evil has lived.

I miss Ninja Gaiden kind of, but hey Ni-Oh is here and Dead or Alive kept kicking somewhat.

Perv games seem strong on PS4 as well. Senran Kagura is pretty ok and there's other shlock out there like Onechanbara Origins.

A series like Yakuza only continued to get better if you ask me. And Sega at least tried a new Sakura Wars. I liked it. I also tried Sega's jrpg offerings from Media Vision. Not so good, but again I'll play them over say Time and Eternity.

I've had nifty Japanese games like Sakuna:Rice and Ruin and one of my absolute recent favorites, 13 Sentinals. Seen more and more visual novels become more ambitious and actually come out here. Something like Stein's Gate was a small print run release on PS3. Now Robotics Note is on clearance at your local Best Buy where they may have a copy of Ai the Somnium Files.   I got a new Ace Combat which makes me pretty happy.


As far as my taste are concerned, it was a far better gen. Now obviously these aren't exclusive, but if we also include the offerings on the Switch well....I feel it's been the best time to be a Japanese game fan, at least since the PS2.

At the end of the day, I feel I've enjoyed more and played more quality Japanese games on the PS4 than I did the PS3. So my narrative is I think the PS4 was a way better system.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Himu on January 31, 2021, 10:36:03 AM
If you don't like quirky titles that's fine but the brunt of our discussion are unique gaming experiences which Sony regularly contributed to, either by directly developing or by publishing.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Don Rumata on January 31, 2021, 11:53:11 AM
Sony's transition to the "Daddy adventure" genre was in the second half of the ps4's life cycle, their unique games like TLG and GR2 were mostly before then.
We'll see what they do with PS5 though.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Rahxephon91 on January 31, 2021, 01:03:26 PM
If you don't like quirky titles that's fine but the brunt of our discussion is unique gaming experiences that Sony regularly contributed to, either by directly developing or by publishing.
And I’ve also argued that given today’s climate they still do that. As much if not more than the others.


There’s more to unique gaming than “quirky” Japanese titles. You guys with your tastes are simply not interested. But they publish more than sad dad games. In fact, that’s just one game.

So if you want to argue aginst false narratives:

Sony's transition to the "Daddy adventure" genre was in the second half of the ps4's life cycle, their unique games like TLG and GR2 were mostly before then.
We'll see what they do with PS5 though.
Argue against this one.

Because I don't think publishing one game with a dad means you have transitioned to doing only that. And in this 2nd half that featured God of War, you still had unique and not sad dad adventure games such as Déraciné, Astro Bot, Firewall, Dreams, Death Stranding, Blood and Truth, and (I'm going to count it) Ghost of Tsushima.

My argument has been given the current climate of gaming that:

Games take longer to make.
Cost more.
There are fewer releases in general.
Japanese gaming is different in general.

That Sony still publishes a variety of games. Maybe not to your taste, but I think saying it's all sad dad, open world, cinematic whatever is wrong.

Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Himu on January 31, 2021, 01:28:33 PM
Maybe you're right. I pay far less attention (which is almost zero) to games industry in general these days so this could all be up my ass.

idk, i've fallen out of love with games so maybe you're right.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: bork on January 31, 2021, 01:43:38 PM
At the end of the day, I feel I've enjoyed more and played more quality Japanese games on the PS4 than I did the PS3. So my narrative is I think the PS4 was a way better system.

I don't disagree with a lot of what you said, but you kind of went off the subject here which is on Sony's own output, and that's where I still don't agree with you.  The PS4 is my least favorite Sony console and I was very disappointed with their output.  Plenty of good third-party titles, sure- but most of those games are on other platforms.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Studio#Project_Siren

This Wikipedia article shows all the games they either developed or co-developed.  There is a significant drop-off after Sony the PS4 came out and Sony ditched the Vita.

Removing remastered PSP and PS2 ports, this is what we got in the last seven years on PS4:

PS4:

Knack
Bloodborne (made by From)
The Tomorrow Children (Discontinued)
The Last Guardian
Everybody's Golf
Knack II
Gravity Rush 2

PSVR:

No Heroes Allowed! VR (made by Acquire)
Déraciné (Made by From)
Everybody's Golf VR
Astro Bot Rescue Mission

They don't list Death Stranding and I'm assuming it's not on there because it's Kojima's game and it was also published on PC by 505 games.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Rahxephon91 on January 31, 2021, 07:02:38 PM
My only real argument against what you are saying is that if you looked out the output of any Japanese game developer/publisher, no any developer you'll probably see a similar decrease in the number of titles compared to previous gens. To which I haven't argued that there are fewer Japanese titles from Sony. I see this as the reality of HD game development.

But for my personal preference, I'm much happier with things like Gravity Rush 2, TLG, Astro Bot, and Bloodborne than I was with the output on the PS3 regardless if there were more titles.

In the end what I'm saying is: I've enjoyed what's come out. I think there are logical conditions for why things are the way they are, but I don't think it's really bad at all. And I think it's overblown to say Sony just publishes one type of game. I'd even argue against saying their marque games are one type of game.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Nintex on January 31, 2021, 07:56:41 PM
I would say ditching the VITA and not announcing a new handheld hurt Sony's Japanese prospects more than everything else.
You can tell that Hermen Hulst is running PlayStation Studios now. They're delivering what the EU/US markets want.

I guess Sony counts on the fact that their Japanese third party support remains strong, which is not unreasonable considering how Microsoft shit the bed and Nintendo sorta has their own lane which has limiting factors for third party publishers.
Still, Nintendo has made inroads with direct collaborations with Koei Tecmo, Namco Bandai and the likes but unless they change their hardware philosophy there will always be a signficant chunk of AAA+ releases that skip their systems in favor of PlayStation.
Never say never though, a decade ago Nintendo had a much different approach to censorship and licensing.

Outside of more studios being bought by the big tech players, I don't see a lot of change in the forseeable future. It seems like the deck is set for the next few years. Nintendo will release an upgraded system that somewhat does 4K but won't ditch their existing Switch userbase unless they absolutely have to. They're probably aiming for hardware that can run most Xbox One games with some cuts, increasing their third party port range. Software wise it'll be sequels to their best selling Switch games (Zelda, Mario, Fire Emblem, Mario Kart, Xenoblade 3 etc.). Microsoft will keep their focus on GamePass and increasing their first party stable, it is very likely they will look at buying Japanese studios or publishers soon with SEGA being a prime target (because SEGA's backlog would also be a nice boost for GamePass). Sony will keep pounding Xbox in Europe and the US so PlayStation remains the top dog in the console space. Once they are comfortable enough that battle is won they will have more wiggle room to focus on Japan again probably with an upgraded and smaller PlayStation 5 model. Because of COVID and insane GPU demand this generation will start quite slow anyway. Lots of games moved from 2021 into 2022 and beyond.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: EchoRin on February 01, 2021, 12:44:14 AM
I know this post isn't adding too much thought or perspective, but:

The Vita as a whole was very strange to me. Essentially pointless now in a post-Switch world, but the Vita was before that and Sony supported that thing very bizarrely. A launch with first party support and then almost immediately losing interest even though it wasn't a failure by any stretch. I'm sure there are probably even posters here who have fond memories of their Vita being an excellent on the go indie machine and anime blob player Japanese non-AAA game player. But as far as Sony trying to push it as a mainstream handheld that had nice graphics, that seemed to halt almost immediately.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Don Rumata on February 01, 2021, 12:57:41 AM
I also liked their overall PS4 output, but i think you're misinterpreting the point being made a bit, because the claim, memes aside, isn't that Sony is now only producing Dad games, but that during the PS4 life cycle they shifted from producing a large variety of titles, to less and less titles, each bigger in production but also similar is style and tone.
That doesn't mean they were to abandon completely titles that started development years ago (like Dreams) or on Ps3 (like TLG) but that the offered variety decreased through the generation.

And the recent middle finger to the Japan Sutio staff, along with the unification of the Playstation studios (and the general Americanizaion of the whole company) is seen as another sign of that shift.

The fact that games are costlier and slower to make is because the production values ambitions have gone up, but that's mostly the point being made: Instead of 2 medium title, you'd rather have 1 big one, and since you only have 1 shot, you'd rather it be of a formula you KNOW will be critically and commercially successful.

I don't blame them though, generally people who want these quirky games, either don't buy them or are a disproportionally loud minority.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Himu on February 25, 2021, 06:44:08 PM
Like I said.

Old Sony is dead.

https://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2021/02/25/report-playstation-phasing-out-sony-japan-studio-ape-escape-gravity-rush-knack/
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Sho Nuff on February 25, 2021, 11:20:44 PM
Aw this fuckin sucks
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: bork on February 25, 2021, 11:56:01 PM
 :goty
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: El Babua on February 26, 2021, 12:57:37 AM
Sony Japan never got a major project on the scale of any western dev since the PS3 days.

I wonder why Sony never gave them the chance? Or were staff so tied up in The Last Guardian debacle and they were never able to build the same momentum as other Sony first party studios.

Asobi Team somehow survived and I pray they get the same budget for their next project that Sony would give their big western devs.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Rahxephon91 on February 26, 2021, 01:08:45 AM
Well I guess I was wrong.

I don't know. I have a bad feeling about this gen.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Nintex on February 26, 2021, 03:59:21 AM
Hermen Hulst needed the weeb budget for a new AAAA Killzone project :trumps
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: BIONIC on February 26, 2021, 05:21:35 AM
:no1curr

They barely made games, and what they made didn’t sell to neither a domestic or international audience.

Japan has no shortage of excellent third-party developers that makes games on PlayStation.

The glorious nippon pride from online weebs who weren’t buying the studio’s games anyways (otherwise they’d still be in fucking business) is so cringe  :lol
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Himu on February 26, 2021, 08:09:58 AM
:no1curr

They barely made games, and what they made didn’t sell to neither a domestic or international audience.

Japan has no shortage of excellent third-party developers that makes games on PlayStation.

The glorious nippon pride from online weebs who weren’t buying the studio’s games anyways (otherwise they’d still be in fucking business) is so cringe  :lol

Ah yes, no one curr despite the fact the entire start of this discussion was the change in sony's priorities. Fuck off furry.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: bork on February 26, 2021, 08:25:53 AM
:no1curr

They barely made games, and what they made didn’t sell to neither a domestic or international audience.

Japan has no shortage of excellent third-party developers that makes games on PlayStation.

The glorious nippon pride from online weebs who weren’t buying the studio’s games anyways (otherwise they’d still be in fucking business) is so cringe  :lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_TBKIg2tWc
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: BIONIC on February 26, 2021, 08:30:37 AM
:no1curr

They barely made games, and what they made didn’t sell to neither a domestic or international audience.

Japan has no shortage of excellent third-party developers that makes games on PlayStation.

The glorious nippon pride from online weebs who weren’t buying the studio’s games anyways (otherwise they’d still be in fucking business) is so cringe  :lol

Ah yes, no one curr despite the fact the entire start of this discussion was the change in sony's priorities. Fuck off furry.

Shouldn’t you be screeching more on your ree alt about how games are déclassé you dumb autisty cunt  :lol
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Himu on February 26, 2021, 08:55:14 AM
You mad, furry? Don't let the bullet hit you.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: BIONIC on February 26, 2021, 09:04:41 AM
Yes, I’m fuming. I’ll go jerk it to my pony plushie to relieve some stress.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: bork on February 26, 2021, 09:47:17 AM
(https://i.gifer.com/Lju.gif)
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Pissy F Benny on February 26, 2021, 10:58:35 AM
I like it when a beef misses out the early escalation and just goes straight for the personal shots :lol :lol :lol
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: BIONIC on February 26, 2021, 11:09:32 AM
There’s no beef like a riotous beef  :goty

spoiler (click to show/hide)
In more ways than one  :rodney  :drool
[close]
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Tasty on February 26, 2021, 11:20:59 AM
Like I said.

Old Sony is dead.

https://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2021/02/25/report-playstation-phasing-out-sony-japan-studio-ape-escape-gravity-rush-knack/

:no1curr

They barely made games, and what they made didn’t sell to neither a domestic or international audience.

Japan has no shortage of excellent third-party developers that makes games on PlayStation.

The glorious nippon pride from online weebs who weren’t buying the studio’s games anyways (otherwise they’d still be in fucking business) is so cringe  :lol

Ah yes, no one curr despite the fact the entire start of this discussion was the change in sony's priorities. Fuck off furry.

Shouldn’t you be screeching more on your ree alt about how games are déclassé you dumb autisty cunt  :lol

https://youtu.be/DivvicEvf6c
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Tasty on February 26, 2021, 11:24:57 AM
You mad, furry? Don't let the bullet hit you.

Yes, I’m fuming. I’ll go jerk it to my pony plushie to relieve some stress.

I can't believe Sony Japan's gone. I can't believe you're going. I can't believe this family must die. :(

Sony helped us believe in love... I can't believe you disagree...
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: bork on February 26, 2021, 12:13:49 PM
Look at the chaos and destruction Sony has caused in this thread.  :'(

FUCK U JIM RYAN
:rage
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Himu on February 26, 2021, 12:20:13 PM
Bionic and been hating each other
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: mormapope on February 26, 2021, 12:34:13 PM
The videogame landscape is looking very interesting.

Nintendo: Strongest they've ever been and aren't slowing down in regards to hype for ANY Nintendo franchise or more niche Japanese games in general.

Microsoft: Game Pass plus numerous acquisitions, meaning big and smaller games have a platform to reach many people. There's appeal for any type of game for that service.

Sony: Incredibly hungry with propping up specific IPs for mass appeal, while also trying to be the main console for big AAA Western and Japanese releases.

It's interesting how time has went on, Playstation has become the most mainstream and less experimental platform.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Rahxephon91 on February 26, 2021, 01:23:10 PM
But PlayStation has always been the mainstream console with AAA games.

I don’t know seems a bit bias. I don’t see what’s so experimental going on the Switch or Xbox. Nintendo just seems to be playing it safe and boring. I don’t even know what MS is doing. Sony is just continuing what they’ve been doing.

Seems pretty boring to me.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Pissy F Benny on February 26, 2021, 02:22:15 PM
Maybe sony will use whatever money they'd have budgeted Japan studio on money hatting some hot exclusives, but it seems more like they're tripling down on dadwank, which I can't stand btw, and has left me with the least amount of interest I've ever had in a.PlayStation console :trumps
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Himu on February 26, 2021, 02:54:58 PM
The videogame landscape is looking very interesting.

Nintendo: Strongest they've ever been and aren't slowing down in regards to hype for ANY Nintendo franchise or more niche Japanese games in general.

Microsoft: Game Pass plus numerous acquisitions, meaning big and smaller games have a platform to reach many people. There's appeal for any type of game for that service.

Sony: Incredibly hungry with propping up specific IPs for mass appeal, while also trying to be the main console for big AAA Western and Japanese releases.

It's interesting how time has went on, Playstation has become the most mainstream and less experimental platform.

Bad take on sony. Sony has always been mainstream. But they're also the company that went with unsafe bets. They took FF from Nintendo and dumped tons of money marketing FFVII. Millions. This might not be a big of a deal now but at the time RPG was a mostly dead genre outside of japan besides in specific locations and especially on consoles. RPGs were niche and Sony was like, fuck thar. Let's make it mainstream. Huuuuge risk. Even Diablo had to be begged to be created and that was the state of the computer rpg environment. Given FFVI (by Square's standards) bombed in the US, Sony and Square's marketing for FFVII was unparalleled in terms of sheer investment and risk.

Sony is no longer a risk company anymore. At one point they balanced risk with mainstream.

Now they're ran by businessmen. It's not that they're the most mainstream. They've always been mainstream. Ps2 was the definition of mainstream. For them it's now about money and pushing numbers. Why risk? There's plenty of money to be made in japan but sony doesn't want it. The american Sony thinks it's beneath them while nintendo makes that bread. Sony could easily try to invest in japan the way they one time invested in America and europe. But they won't. Because they moved from japan to cali. Now they're interested in what works only. They aren't interested in their legacy. They aren't interested in risk. They're interested in business only.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Nintex on February 26, 2021, 03:15:04 PM
Maybe sony will use whatever money they'd have budgeted Japan studio on money hatting some hot exclusives, but it seems more like they're tripling down on dadwank, which I can't stand btw, and has left me with the least amount of interest I've ever had in a.PlayStation console :trumps
That or Killzone Vengeance :trumps
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: mormapope on February 26, 2021, 03:18:11 PM
I mean, once you pay Activision to have Playstation advertised as the platform to play CoD on, spend money on making DLC for Avengers exclusive to Playstation (the DLC being the most popular Marvel character of all time), invest money and buy a studio so they can churn out more Spiderman games (Insomniac), and double down on IPs that sold in the tens of millions rather than the entire catalog as a whole, that's chasing mainstream appeal very heavily.

Sony fell into mainstream in the past. Now, they're chasing that appeal with every move they make.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Himu on February 26, 2021, 03:42:00 PM
I like to describe the three companies thusly:

Nintendo - Historically more interested in their legacy and brand. This makes them traditionally the most conservative of the three. At the same time, they've always had experimentation periods where they lead the industry, but they're often pushed into that corner. Sometimes this makes them more experimental than they need to be (wii, virtual boy). This experimentation can be a detriment where the gimmick alone is enough to sell. After they experiment and find a successful formula they coast.

Microsoft - unlike Nintendo they're not interested in pushing the industry or new ideas. They're more business like. Microsoft has no need to rely on experimentation because the company can survive without xbox. Nintendo and Sony can't. Their companies highly rely on their video game business, and ncreasingly, in Sony's case, they're no longer an industry leader in anything besides Vidya). If MS wants something new, they can buy it. Simple as.

Sony - the middle option between Microsoft rigidity and Nintendo experimentation. The company that one point pushed for games like Loco Roco and stuff like Killzone at the same time. They struck a balance and that was their bread and butter. As the company of Sony increasingly relies on Playstation to even exist you see less of one game type and more of another.

Why invest in new game ideas if third party will do that for us? Sony is relying on them doing that but a big reason they ever got such big third-party support to begin with was their earlier balance of embracing mainstream games with new ideas because unlike Nintendo they started from scratch. Nintendo had been making arcade games for years before the NES and had the capital and legacy behind it. Sony had to reach out because they were newcomers. Sony is acting like their third-party support will always be there. They are arrogant.

Now would be a really, really good time for a new Sega console. Take Sony's lunch.

Also lol at any Sony "fan" not caring about this news.

https://twitter.com/ShaunMusgrave/status/1365115105847906305

https://twitter.com/ShaunMusgrave/status/1365107744995307521

https://twitter.com/ShaunMusgrave/status/1365108108347858945

Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Rahxephon91 on February 26, 2021, 03:50:58 PM
Investing in AAA single player games is a risk....

It’s so risky the industry spent the later half of the 360 gen saying it was dead.  Multiplayer, gass, br, mobile. That’s supposed to be the future. Again I get some of you don’t like these games but AAA single player games and commuting to VR is not some safe path. It’s a formula now, that they are in danger of getting caught in.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Himu on February 26, 2021, 03:54:58 PM
Maybe sony will use whatever money they'd have budgeted Japan studio on money hatting some hot exclusives, but it seems more like they're tripling down on dadwank, which I can't stand btw, and has left me with the least amount of interest I've ever had in a.PlayStation console :trumps

Agreed. If not for Demons Souls and some japanese exclusives it would be the first PS I skip. Unfortunately the fgc has decided it will be the next fighting game system.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Skullfuckers Anonymous on February 26, 2021, 04:01:14 PM
I don’t think fans care about this because Japan Studio hasn’t made anything of value during the PS4 generation. The big hits are either ports or most of the work was done by another team (bloodborne). The games they developed on their own were Knack 1 & 2 (lol) and last guardian (utter dogshit).
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: tiesto on February 26, 2021, 04:08:42 PM
Wait, Jim Ryan was the guy who axed Psygnosis/Studio Liverpool?  :punch :punch :punch
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Himu on February 26, 2021, 04:09:28 PM
I don’t think fans care about this because Japan Studio hasn’t made anything of value during the PS4 generation. The big hits are either ports or most of the work was done by another team (bloodborne). The games they developed on their own were Knack 1 & 2 (lol) and last guardian (utter dogshit).

Which kind of fan do you refer to? Old Sony stans like myself definitely care. Sony are basically losing generations of good will and certain type of fans are noticing and shifting towards Nintendo. This might not mean much now but backlashes and comeuppance are a video game tale as old as time. Check the playasia twitter feed. It might not matter to gamers who just consume to consoom but lol, sony's rep, forna specific type of Sony fan, absolutely does care.

https://twitter.com/playasia/status/1365136947551760389

Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: BIONIC on February 26, 2021, 04:21:07 PM
I don’t think fans care about this because Japan Studio hasn’t made anything of value during the PS4 generation. The big hits are either ports or most of the work was done by another team (bloodborne). The games they developed on their own were Knack 1 & 2 (lol) and last guardian (utter dogshit).

I liked TLG well-enough.

Fact of the matter is that they took nearly a decade to make a 10 hour game that sold three copies.

Blame Ueda or god  :trumps
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Rahxephon91 on February 26, 2021, 04:33:41 PM
I mean the Sony in charge now is the Sony that would let niche publishers actually publish some of JapanStudios games.

But I’ll be honest as a Sony diehard since the PS2, JapanStudio’s output isn’t not what I liked about the PlayStation. It was always the third party games. Final Fantasy, Metal Gear, Devil May Cry, Persona, ect. It is only recently first party has done anything for me. I really doubt I’m the only person who feels this way. I’m willing to bet most people’s favorite PS1-3 games are third party games.

Saying “well this isn’t a big loss” is wrong. I think this signals a not so good change in direction. One I’m not sure had a lot of longevity. And I did enjoy things like Gravity Rush 2 which probably won’t happen. Though honestly the things I do like BloodBorne and ....Wild Arms could still happen as the main developers still exist.

I think Sony is at the go big or go home mentality. I think they are going to let 3rd parties fill out the rest. I also don’t think that is something that was seeded well before now.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Skullfuckers Anonymous on February 26, 2021, 04:39:27 PM
Which kind of fan do you refer to? Old Sony stans like myself definitely care. Sony are basically losing generations of good will and certain type of fans are noticing and shifting towards Nintendo. This might not mean much now but backlashes and comeuppance are a video game tale as old as time. Check the playasia twitter feed. It might not matter to gamers who just consume to consoom but lol, sony's rep, forna specific type of Sony fan, absolutely does care.

https://twitter.com/playasia/status/1365136947551760389

My point is that Japan studio has been dying since the late ps3 era. If Sony didn’t just close them the what would they be doing this gen, Knack 3, more ports/remasters, and maybe a team Ico game.

I think Sony is hurting in Japan due to third party series that were previously exclusive (yakuza, metal gear, disgea, square stuff, persona) are now all multi platform so you don’t need a Sony system for them.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: paprikastaude on February 26, 2021, 04:41:18 PM
I don’t think fans care about this because Japan Studio hasn’t made anything of value during the PS4 generation. The big hits are either ports or most of the work was done by another team (bloodborne). The games they developed on their own were Knack 1 & 2 (lol) and last guardian (utter dogshit).

I liked TLG well-enough.

Fact of the matter is that they took nearly a decade to make a 10 hour game that sold three copies.

Blame Ueda or god  :trumps

Sony was the best platform holder last gen, because they still funded things like Bloodborne, Astrobot or TLG even though they could have easily rested on those Naughty Dog lorels™ and call it a day. I don't care for that whole business argument, because it's usually said by idiot fanboys. Same shit when nintenyearolds come in crying "yeah but Metroid doesn't sell as well as KIRBY#2652 so they are amazing and smart abandoning more diverse IPs". So what? I'm not a CEO. I'm a gaming fan interested in diverse libraries, which a platform holder should provide, even if some things don't do CoD numbers. The same goons who celebrate gaming CEOs also won't hold back fapping to Xenoblade and Bloodborne in list wars. Guess what, these games wouldn't exist if it was for their beloved 'rational' business makers who didn't see value in their original localisations. Not in every new idea slumbers a hit like Souls, but see where you will get trying to homogenize your portfolio in the long run.
:idont

To be fair, we have yet to see how their output develops. The PS5 launch was still pretty diverse with Astro, Demon's, Spiderman and Sackboy. But so far that disgusting sausage Jim Ryan seems more like an EA guy than anyone who'd have respect for the medium.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Himu on February 26, 2021, 04:41:44 PM
Honestly this reminds me of short term thinking that brought down ps3, n64, and xbone. Ps4 wasn't even that much of a much better product than xbone. But sony took MS' arrogance assuming people wouldn't give a shit and ran with it. This mindset will become company wide and likely end up making them do continuously bone headed decisions and they'll lose all goodwill. Cycle repeats.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Rahxephon91 on February 26, 2021, 04:51:34 PM
They could have had JapanStudios make a new Legend of Dragoon. Anything really. JRPGs and Japanese games in general are not unpopular. Maybe not 6 million unit sellers. But there is a market for Japanese games that probably skew older.  You have stuff like Nier Automata do good. It’s possible. I don’t think most people want LocoRoco.

But I guess one of the problems was that JapanStudio did not want to make games with a worldwide focus.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: tiesto on February 26, 2021, 04:58:23 PM
MS first party got dogged by gamers because of the whole "Halo/Gears/Forza ad nauseum" policy they took starting late-360... when in previous times they were pushing a much more diverse (quality notwithstanding) lineup. This most recent gen, they're buying up a lot of studios to expand their first party output - and with the exception of Bethesda, these are studios that are kinda niche (Obsidian, Ninja Theory). So this seems like the time where Sony would want to bolster their lineup diversity as much as possible instead of counterintuitively doubling down on "angry dad cinematic wankfests".

Sony's disinterest in the Japanese market is disheartening, as I've always felt that a strong Sony = strong Japanese 3rd party game titles (even if PS4 just barely came shy of PS3's lifetime sales in Japan, its success in the rest of the world created a thriving ecosystem for Japanese devs, and the PS4 gen was much stronger for them overall than the PS3 gen [though this is also for a myriad of other reasons]).

They could have had JapanStudios make a new Legend of Dragoon. Anything really. JRPGs and Japanese games in general are not unpopular. Maybe not 6 million unit sellers. But there is a market for Japanese games that probably skew older.  You have stuff like Nier Automata do good. It’s possible. I don’t think most people want LocoRoco.

But I guess one of the problems was that JapanStudio did not want to make games with a worldwide focus.

I'd argue they're at their most popular in the west than they've ever been. Atelier, Nier, Persona, Fire Emblem - all have broken sales records in the west - in the PS2 and early PS3 era most people would consider these games niche as hell. Hell, even SE just reported lifetime sales of 2.5 mil for Octopath.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: paprikastaude on February 26, 2021, 05:10:08 PM
Honestly this reminds me of short term thinking that brought down ps3, n64, and xbone. Ps4 wasn't even that much of a much better product than xbone. But sony took MS' arrogance assuming people wouldn't give a shit and ran with it. This mindset will become company wide and likely end up making them do continuously bone headed decisions and they'll lose all goodwill. Cycle repeats.

Also Nintendo around the same time. Straight up refused to release finished games like Last Story, Fatal Frame, etc. because they weren't Wii Fit. Next thing you know, you got an absolute shitshow like WiiU that they tried to sell with nothing but "safe" party games and 2D platformers for its first years. These market leaders never learn until they hit their brick wall. Which is why closure is the worst option, because they can't go back later.

They could have had JapanStudios make a new Legend of Dragoon. Anything really. JRPGs and Japanese games in general are not unpopular. Maybe not 6 million unit sellers. But there is a market for Japanese games that probably skew older.  You have stuff like Nier Automata do good. It’s possible. I don’t think most people want LocoRoco.

But I guess one of the problems was that JapanStudio did not want to make games with a worldwide focus.

That's the next thing. Japanese game sales are at an historic peak right now. Nier and Persona being multimillion sellers is unheard of. Resident Evil and Monster Hunter more successful than ever. Every low budget weeb Namco game does at least a million these days. So do something different with the studios if Knack 2 wasn't it :doge
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Himu on February 26, 2021, 05:49:13 PM
MS first party got dogged by gamers because of the whole "Halo/Gears/Forza ad nauseum" policy they took starting late-360... when in previous times they were pushing a much more diverse (quality notwithstanding) lineup. This most recent gen, they're buying up a lot of studios to expand their first party output - and with the exception of Bethesda, these are studios that are kinda niche (Obsidian, Ninja Theory). So this seems like the time where Sony would want to bolster their lineup diversity as much as possible instead of counterintuitively doubling down on "angry dad cinematic wankfests".

Sony's disinterest in the Japanese market is disheartening, as I've always felt that a strong Sony = strong Japanese 3rd party game titles (even if PS4 just barely came shy of PS3's lifetime sales in Japan, its success in the rest of the world created a thriving ecosystem for Japanese devs, and the PS4 gen was much stronger for them overall than the PS3 gen [though this is also for a myriad of other reasons]).

They could have had JapanStudios make a new Legend of Dragoon. Anything really. JRPGs and Japanese games in general are not unpopular. Maybe not 6 million unit sellers. But there is a market for Japanese games that probably skew older.  You have stuff like Nier Automata do good. It’s possible. I don’t think most people want LocoRoco.

But I guess one of the problems was that JapanStudio did not want to make games with a worldwide focus.

I'd argue they're at their most popular in the west than they've ever been. Atelier, Nier, Persona, Fire Emblem - all have broken sales records in the west - in the PS2 and early PS3 era most people would consider these games niche as hell. Hell, even SE just reported lifetime sales of 2.5 mil for Octopath.

yeah i expect ms to eat their lunch. i think the one might bounce back this gen like the way the ps3 did.
Title: Re: Gamer narratives that make no sense
Post by: Himu on February 26, 2021, 05:52:02 PM
Honestly this reminds me of short term thinking that brought down ps3, n64, and xbone. Ps4 wasn't even that much of a much better product than xbone. But sony took MS' arrogance assuming people wouldn't give a shit and ran with it. This mindset will become company wide and likely end up making them do continuously bone headed decisions and they'll lose all goodwill. Cycle repeats.

Also Nintendo around the same time. Straight up refused to release finished games like Last Story, Fatal Frame, etc. because they weren't Wii Fit. Next thing you know, you got an absolute shitshow like WiiU that they tried to sell with nothing but "safe" party games and 2D platformers for its first years. These market leaders never learn until they hit their brick wall. Which is why closure is the worst option, because they can't go back later.

They could have had JapanStudios make a new Legend of Dragoon. Anything really. JRPGs and Japanese games in general are not unpopular. Maybe not 6 million unit sellers. But there is a market for Japanese games that probably skew older.  You have stuff like Nier Automata do good. It’s possible. I don’t think most people want LocoRoco.

But I guess one of the problems was that JapanStudio did not want to make games with a worldwide focus.

That's the next thing. Japanese game sales are at an historic peak right now. Nier and Persona being multimillion sellers is unheard of. Resident Evil and Monster Hunter more successful than ever. Every low budget weeb Namco game does at least a million these days. So do something different with the studios if Knack 2 wasn't it :doge

This is the most hilarious part about all of this.

"Japanese games don't sell well."

Uh, what industry have you been paying attention to the past few years? Sony trying to not get in on the rising sun action will bite them in the ass. Guaranteed.