THE BORE
General => Video Game Bored => Topic started by: mormapope on February 21, 2021, 02:31:13 PM
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There aren't abundant text bubbles and dialog.
There's always a ton of discussion from Zelda fans of what BOTW lacks versus classic 3D Zelda. My biggest problem with classic 3D Zelda's, with many games in general, is how much dialog and tutorials and exposition given to stories and game worlds.
Even in something like Ocarina of Time, there are constant mini interruptions. The closest Zelda regarding this ratio would probably be Windwaker. Where there's tons of time dedicated to traversing and sailing, with little to no interruption.
BOTW is one of the only modern AAA games where the text to gameplay ratio is heavily skewed towards gameplay. You aren't interrupted by npcs, cutscenes, journals, lore dumps, any of that.
Super Mario Odyssey has more text to read than BOTW. That's a knock against Odyssey, but it's a reason why BOTW stands out compared to so many games in all genres.
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i cant pretend to have played every zelda, but botw is a glorified ubisoft game and every single one I've played has been better than that.
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i cant pretend to have played every zelda, but botw is a glorified ubisoft game and every single one I've played has been better than that.
I can never tell if you're just trolling or legitimately stupid but either way your opinions are straight trash
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i cant pretend to have played every zelda, but botw is a glorified ubisoft game and every single one I've played has been better than that.
I can never tell if you're just trolling or legitimately stupid but either way your opinions are straight trash
Gilhany only plays cs so that should tell you something about his tastes in gaming
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i cant pretend to have played every zelda, but botw is a glorified ubisoft game and every single one I've played has been better than that.
I can never tell if you're just trolling or legitimately stupid but either way your opinions are straight trash
breakable weapons 🚮
the combat itself 🚮
bad side quests 🚮
boring ass shrines 🚮
the bosses 🚮
enemy ai worse than cyberpunks 🚮
no challenge in anything in the game 🚮
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Weapons that don't last forever, giving meaning to the weapon you wield and how you use it :heartbeat
Combat that's based on your weapons, tools, environment, and ability to improvise :heartbeat
Side quests that either give a tangible reward or a piece of equipment that you'd never expect (you get snow/sand boots for cross dressing as a Gerudo chick) :heartbeat
Shrines that allow you to experiment or solve puzzles in your own way using the tools you gained and tricks you learned :heartbeat
Boss battles were aight :heartbeat
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/bd/4f/74/bd4f74cf67c36f303d7513477691950a.jpg)
Urbosa
:dsp :dsp :dsp
https://youtu.be/cPWBG6_jn4Y
:whew
I've played a lot of Ubisoft games, and BotW shares almost none of the same design philosophies. They really don't.
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I've played a lot of Ubisoft games, and BotW shares almost none of the same design philosophies. They really don't.
they share being bad games though 🚮
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I've played a lot of Ubisoft games, and BotW shares almost none of the same design philosophies. They really don't.
they share being bad games though 🚮
You being a Counter Strike player and me a CoD player, I'd like to think we know bad games when we see them. Since we both spend so much time playing with shit.
I guess that's not the case :doge
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CSGO is the best balanced team based competitive shooter I've yet to play. It's a fantastic game, that could be even better if Valve werent useless. Inch of allah, nephew.
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i cant pretend to have played every zelda, but botw is a glorified ubisoft game and every single one I've played has been better than that.
I can never tell if you're just trolling or legitimately stupid but either way your opinions are straight trash
Gilhany only plays cs so that should tell you something about his tastes in gaming
Oh so he hates himself and everything else, good to know
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reflecting on my posts in here, i am sorry if i offended you mr snorenado or any other vidya you like. have a nice day and keep on zeldaing.
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Botw is a good game tho, especially on cemu
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I've played a lot of Ubisoft games, and BotW shares almost none of the same design philosophies. They really don't.
Have you played Immortals? It's a pretty good clone.
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I've played a lot of Ubisoft games, and BotW shares almost none of the same design philosophies. They really don't.
Have you played Immortals? It's a pretty good clone.
I've wanted to get into it, I'll probably get it once it hits that inevitable $10 price point.
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My only major complaint with BotW is the weapon durability. I don't mind stuff breaking, but let me take the broken sword to a blacksmith in town a reforge it. Skyward Sword had upgrade paths for swords, bows and shields, the ability to repair equipment at the bazaar and even repairing potions. It's weird af they took all that stuff out but kept the breaking mechanic. Otherwise BotW is superior in almost every other way.
That and maybe an outfit that let's you climb in the rain.
Those are still minor things. BotW blows the doors off of all other modern open world games. The nonlinearity and exploration are sublime. :aah
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I had trouble getting into BOTW... not a huge open world fan, especially when they're this big... my favorite parts of the Zelda series tend to be the dungeons, and the shrines weren't nearly as fulfilling to me as the typical dungeons of the series.
Also did not like the music nor the weapon durability aspect.
Still gotta give it another chance, it's the only Zelda I have yet to beat (along with Triforce Heroes and the CDI games)
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Weapons that don't last forever, giving meaning to the weapon you wield and how you use it :heartbeat
Combat that's based on your weapons, tools, environment, and ability to improvise :heartbeat
Side quests that either give a tangible reward or a piece of equipment that you'd never expect (you get snow/sand boots for cross dressing as a Gerudo chick) :heartbeat
Shrines that allow you to experiment or solve puzzles in your own way using the tools you gained and tricks you learned :heartbeat
Boss battles were aight :heartbeat
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/bd/4f/74/bd4f74cf67c36f303d7513477691950a.jpg)
Urbosa
:dsp :dsp :dsp
https://youtu.be/cPWBG6_jn4Y
:whew
I've played a lot of Ubisoft games, and BotW shares almost none of the same design philosophies. They really don't.
No, I'm sorry, I'm playing BOTW for the first time right now and I don't get how you can say it isn't an Ubisoft game or shares those philosophies. Everything even remotely worth a shit glows bright orange!! I feel like the world has already been explored by playtesters before they let Link loose in it and they did all the discovering for me.
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Botw best game ever. Period.
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I like A Link to da Past. :)
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Weapons that don't last forever, giving meaning to the weapon you wield and how you use it :heartbeat
Combat that's based on your weapons, tools, environment, and ability to improvise :heartbeat
Side quests that either give a tangible reward or a piece of equipment that you'd never expect (you get snow/sand boots for cross dressing as a Gerudo chick) :heartbeat
Shrines that allow you to experiment or solve puzzles in your own way using the tools you gained and tricks you learned :heartbeat
Boss battles were aight :heartbeat
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/bd/4f/74/bd4f74cf67c36f303d7513477691950a.jpg)
Urbosa
:dsp :dsp :dsp
https://youtu.be/cPWBG6_jn4Y
:whew
I've played a lot of Ubisoft games, and BotW shares almost none of the same design philosophies. They really don't.
No, I'm sorry, I'm playing BOTW for the first time right now and I don't get how you can say it isn't an Ubisoft game or shares those philosophies. Everything even remotely worth a shit glows bright orange!! I feel like the world has already been explored by playtesters before they let Link loose in it and they did all the discovering for me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77C2UBijyrw
It's leagues better than Ubisoft shit. Compare the average blip on a Ubisoft map to the average shrine and it's obvious.
I generally don't like Nintendo shit and haven't really liked most of the Switch library but BotW made the console worth it.
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It's not Ubisoft design, it's Xenoblade design. Including the sense of scale, verticality, abandoned temples and enemies roaming the overworld with friendly settlements scattered across the world.
Some areas in the first Xenoblade (Valak Mountain, Gaur Plain) are straight up BOTW beta experiments.
Colony 6 = Tarrey Town
Far Cry 3 is often seen as the moment Ubisoft introduced their 'formula'. Xenoblade was released 2 years earlier.
It's how Nintendo managed to do such a dramatic shift after Skyward Sword, they put Monolith on it.
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BOTW still feels like a huge beta to me. They packed so much, but yet, so little in that game. Loved everything but the story... the music (where's my boy Koji?!?)..... the weapon durability.... the shrines.... the lack of button arrangement.... one save file.... It's like they took bold steps to change up the formula, but was totally not fleshed out no where near enough... They stepped too far out of the traditional 3D Zelda mold, but didn't make something 100% unique. I can only hope that they will fix all my complaints in BOTW2. Like put actual fucking unique dungeons in this game maybe?. Not these damn tech demo shrines that literally all look the same and get horribly boring and have complete shit functionality. You mean to tell me you can climb pretty much everything out in the open world, but you can't even grab a fucking ledge in these shrines?!?! :yuck
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Let's be honest if Nintendo hadn't rushed it out the door because GameCube was cratering, The Wind Waker would still be the GOAT Zelda.
(https://i.imgur.com/WiOtg5M.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/wJXdS5h.jpg)
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if Nintendo hadn't rushed it out the door
But they did tho.
It has some of the weakest 3D dungeons in the series, it's piss easy and has some awful padding.
I loved the game when it came out and I still think it's good Zelda but whenever someone mentions it as their favorite in the series, it's hard not to side-eye a bit.
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:( Stop forcing reality on me. :maf
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WW surprised me more than any other Zelda game. That initial reveal was not taken well at all, but after actually getting it and playing it, I was genuinely pleased.
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It'd be nice if they'd go back and actually finish WW putting in the two dungeons it's said to be missing and what not. Oh, put Kraid back in the first Metroid Prime too.
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Yeah it was nice having the tutorial of BOTW being 30 minutes as opposed to the other games which would have it last hours.
It'd be nice if they'd go back and actually finish WW putting in the two dungeons it's said to be missing and what not. Oh, put Kraid back in the first Metroid Prime too.
The missing dungeons are in twilight princess and it’s the better game anyway so play that again.
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Twilight Princess :whew
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if Nintendo hadn't rushed it out the door
But they did tho.
It has some of the weakest 3D dungeons in the series, it's piss easy and has some awful padding.
I loved the game when it came out and I still think it's good Zelda but whenever someone mentions it as their favorite in the series, it's hard not to side-eye a bit.
WW is pretty clearly mid tier Zelda, Tasty just likes it because it pours on the whimsy like it was made by Guy Fieri
(to be clear, mid tier Zelda is still better than most other games but WW is not great)
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Even in something like Ocarina of Time, there are constant mini interruptions. The closest Zelda regarding this ratio would probably be Windwaker. Where there's tons of time dedicated to traversing and sailing, with little to no interruption.
Zelda 1-3? Not that I disagree. But it's obvious they based BOTW off the original, which was fairly hands off.
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Wind Waker fans are the FFIX fans of Zelda where they lift up a fairly average game in the franchise as the GOAT, often mostly because of aesthetics. It's really weird to me but I understand people have different opinions.
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The only thing I can agree with is that it had the best tutorial section. Specially TP and SS were taking the piss with their hours long intro section.
Otherwise I can't see how a game with "dungeons" you can rush through in around 15-20min can be considered the best game in a franchise that's famous for its interesting dungeons.
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Is one of the best but I like the old formula way better. While progression was attached to Health/Stamina and Divine Beasts at BotW, the philosophy of “you can do most activities in the game with the initial items” kind of kills the excitement of discovering stuff by the end of the game. You get a weapon that going to destroy itself in a few hits or you complete a mini dungeon for currency to get more health and Stamina. Even the most memorable side stuff (like the island challenge) was mostly contrived to this stuff. The lore stuff was also a mixed bag given the terrible voice acting, and while the initial premise was incredible the stuff with the champions was just okay and pretty crappy that Ganon was just “dumb ultimate evil” rather than stuff like Wind Waker Ganondorf.
For the sequel they need to seek a balance between sandbox and actually feeling you achieved something in discovering stuff outside more health/stamina.
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Otherwise I can't see how a game with "dungeons" you can rush through in around 15-20min can be considered the best game in a franchise that's famous for its interesting dungeons.
You're getting just as much "puzzle" in BotW as before, but they've been disseminated throughout the game, not just in the shrines but in the overworld itself.
I don't understand the fascination of needing the all puzzle solving to be grouped together in to clear cut dungeons with a color/elemental theme for it to be meaningful.
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Otherwise I can't see how a game with "dungeons" you can rush through in around 15-20min can be considered the best game in a franchise that's famous for its interesting dungeons.
You're getting just as much "puzzle" in BotW as before, but they've been disseminated throughout the game, not just in the shrines but in the overworld itself.
I don't understand the fascination of needing the all puzzle solving to be grouped together in to clear cut dungeons with a color/elemental theme for it to be meaningful.
Yeah, but the rewards for doing the puzzles are kind of underwhelming even if you are “progressing” in getting more health and stamina. The weapon degradation is also pretty terrible implemented, even if I get what they were trying to do.
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And out of the 200+ shrines, literally 1 enemy variety... a mini guardian. :doge
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The fun of the shrines is doing the shrines, or doing the shrine quests.
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Tbh the complaints aimed at BOTW are besides me. They milked the formula for years. WW, TP, Phantom Hourglass,and other games were boring, uninspired. You say,"but what about dungeons?" as if Zelda dungeons haven't been wack since Wind Waker. I remember finishing most WW dungeons in one sitting. Wack ass shit. Then I come here to see the same people going "what about dungeons?!!" praise Wind Waker. Some :sabu shit to me.
The formula been stretched out for yeaaaaars. TP gave nice respite but even that was basically Ocarina's Greatest Hits. Had items you only use in the dungeon for the boss battle and then never again like the spin top. Zelda formula been stretched thin and uninspired for a long time. I skipped SS because it seemed super wack and apparently I was on the right track. I mentally threw Zelda in the trash because I figured we'd never get another inspired Zelda again. Thank goodness for Link Between Worlds and BOTW which did everything they can to flip the boring, stale formula Zelda had been since Wind Waker.
Most of these complaints honestly sound like sour grapes of fans grasping at a formula that got old over a decade ago that no one in their mind gives a shit about anymore much less wants, which is precisely why Nintendo made BOTW to begin with. Everyone been over classic Zelda. You just late or haven't accepted that because real talk, if classic Zelda formula is what you want you've got pleeeeenty of options.
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It's also bizarre how, despite all these complaints about DunGEoNz that the heavy exploration, higher difficulty (one hit kills, emphasis on resource/item management), and creativity have been utter ignored. I love dungeons too, and think BOTW is faaaar from perfect (although close!) but it's clearly a step in the right direction after Nintendo decided to turn Zelda into digital baby food with Wind Waker (and I am not talking about the aesthetic).
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BOTW would good if it had more romance options.
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BOTW would good if it had more romance options.
Not being able to make sweet love to Daruk :goty
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BOTW would good if it had more romance options.
would good,
or good wood?
i actually have thought about this though, imo it would be way too earnest and weird if link could slam zelda. link is noble but irreverent, he's no settler. i don't even see him being down for a 2nd date. and there's already fair bit of sexual innuendo throughout the games. would fit the atmosphere to me if you could throw a few rupees at some zora whores, get kooky with some korok or something but full on relationship building would not fit the vibe. relationships in rpg's are nearly always crass and badly implemented.
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Agreed about the dungeon obsession with some of the fanbase. It's the reason why shitty games like TP and SS get hyped so much. There's 7 dungeons in Skyward Sword and 9 in Twilight Princess... and among those the only ones that the fanbase actually hypes up are Snowpeak, Ancient Cistern and Sandship. That's 3/16. The rest of those games are miserable (tear collecting, tad tones, 4 hour intros, barren overworlds). Zelda was really at her lowest, fat nasty and broke. Legacy in shambles. Aonuma was mad as hell.
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Not every Zelda dungeon is great.... But neither is 200 of the samey shrines. BOTW has A LOT of of room for improvement though. Step in the right direction... And obviously they had a lot more planned for it, since they're making a direct follow up. The divine beasts and Hyrule Castle were pretty good, but far and few between.. And bring back Koji to make a new main theme. BOTW has the weakest fucking Zelda score. Trekking through hyrule field with nothing but piano riffs sounds like this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9PiqCeLEmM).
And hell no to the romance... Zelda needs to stay E 10+ :birdman I will cunt punt my Switch out the door if they pulled that shit.
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Not every Zelda dungeon is great.... But neither is 200 of the samey shrines. BOTW has A LOT of of room for improvement though. Step in the right direction... And obviously they had a lot more planned for it, since they're making a direct follow up. The divine beasts and Hyrule Castle were pretty good, but far and few between.. And bring back Koji to make a new main theme. BOTW has the weakest fucking Zelda score. Trekking through hyrule field with nothing but piano riffs sounds like this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9PiqCeLEmM).
And hell no to the romance... Zelda needs to stay E 10+ :birdman I will cunt punt my Switch out the door if they pulled that shit.
I heard this complaint about BOTW and honestly, almost every shrine is different and I found them fun. 200 shrines? So what? How many are required? The required shrines are fantastic by the way.
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There's 120 shrines, of which 71 are unique puzzles (plus another 12 in the DLC) and 20 are tests of strength and 29 blessings which are given for completing overworld events like traversal challenges and puzzles. Plus the shrine quests in the overworld are great and a wide variety of unique puzzles and challenges like Eventide Island, Thundra Plateau, Spring of Wisdom, Typhlo Ruins, etc. It's such a dense and well designed world with just so much going on. But it's weird that whole parts of the fandom are longing to go back to running in straight lines through dull worlds between braindead dungeons.
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BOTW score is fantastic and very appropriate for the kind of gameworld it has (explorative and melancholic). And if you were so desperate for the classic Zelda theme, you should’ve ridden your horse more often.
I don’t think any dungeon in the last few linear zeldas holds a candle to Hyrule Castle in BOTW, never mind Eventide Island or Trials of the Sword.
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Not every Zelda dungeon is great.... But neither is 200 of the samey shrines. BOTW has A LOT of of room for improvement though. Step in the right direction... And obviously they had a lot more planned for it, since they're making a direct follow up. The divine beasts and Hyrule Castle were pretty good, but far and few between.. And bring back Koji to make a new main theme. BOTW has the weakest fucking Zelda score. Trekking through hyrule field with nothing but piano riffs sounds like this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9PiqCeLEmM).
And hell no to the romance... Zelda needs to stay E 10+ :birdman I will cunt punt my Switch out the door if they pulled that shit.
I heard this complaint about BOTW and honestly, almost every shrine is different and I found them fun. 200 shrines? So what? How many are required? The required shrines are fantastic by the way.
There are some that are fun, yeah... but as mentioned before, the rewards are so minuscule, it feels like a small, mobile game type fix instead of a more triumphant accomplishment... If they all (or the majority of them) were pieces of a larger scale puzzle, that would be different... but all they provide is stamina and/or heart boosters. And if you're just damn good with mad skills and can dodge and parry everything (Lord knows I can't), these shrines are kinda pointless. They're just there... bland filler. Have I mentioned how distinguished mentally-challenged it is to not be able to grab ledges in shrines? I don't have any hate towards BOTW.. it is definitely a breath of fresh air from breaking the traditional mold, but they kinda dump a new world of possibilities on us, but left a lot to the imagination of what it could potentially be. (Some of that fault probably being it developed for Wii U initially). I think BOTW2 will deliver even harder.
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BOTW score is fantastic and very appropriate for the kind of gameworld it has (explorative and melancholic). And if you were so desperate for the classic Zelda theme, you should’ve ridden your horse more often.
I don’t think any dungeon in the last few linear zeldas holds a candle to Hyrule Castle in BOTW, never mind Eventide Island or Trials of the Sword.
Oh yeah, I agree with you that Hyrule Castle is awesome in BOTW.
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The rewards are miniscule? Lmao in TP and WW you'll get 100 rupees as a reward when you've got a full wallet. In BOTW you get weapon (which break a lot) and resources that you'll actually need. Also, in BOTW rupees actually matter. Agree to disagree. Then you've got stuff like Eventide island which is basically one large dungeon confined to a single island. These complaints are bizarre to me. What's your opinion on Skyrim? Because I guarantee BOTW offers far more variety and diversity than it.
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forgot about eventide island, that was such a great event.
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The rewards are miniscule? Lmao in TP and WW you'll get 100 rupees as a reward when you've got a full wallet. In BOTW you get weapon (which break a lot) and resources that you'll actually need. Also, in BOTW rupees actually matter. Agree to disagree. Then you've got stuff like Eventide island which is basically one large dungeon confined to a single island. These complaints are bizarre to me. What's your opinion on Skyrim? Because I guarantee BOTW offers far more variety and diversity than it.
Like Skyrim, BOTW was all about the journey, for me... you get all prepared for a ultra climactic end game, but ends up mediocre. It's hard to compare otherwise.. The amount of caves and girth of the dungeons themselves in Skyrim still feel like deep, dungeons you can get lost in and actually fight various enemies.. Granted, they don't have fun, physics based puzzles like BOTW has. But just mini guardians... in a few shrines... I wouldn't call that variety or diverse. But Puzzle vs enemies, I guess that's apples and oranges.
Again, I think BOTW is a great game, it just left me wanting more what with the possibilities it opened. I bought a Wii U just for that game. And I just bought a Switch... mainly for BOTW2. My family and I love Zelda. I love pretty much all the Zelda games. Even Majora's Mask, which I absolutely loathed back then, I'm coming around to appreciating it too. :)
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Quite frankly, I don't think a challenge that is designed to have as many solutions as possible is a "puzzle" - the very first thing you try will, most likely, get the ball in the hole. They're more like..chores, I guess, or tasks? That's kind of a shitty word for it, but what comes to mind is one shrine near the beginning where it wants you to move a ball over a bunch lasers, and you can just launch it across the gap with stasis. And like, any Zelda game worth it's salt would just put a wall up, force you to figure out the intended solution, and this one just doesn't even bother to fight back. It wants you to win by any means necessary.
zelda in the past was defined by getting "stuck" on puzzles. Each was a lock, that fit one or maybe two keys. These shrines are locks that pop open when you knock on them. I've played this thing for quite a bit at this point and I haven't really "figured out" a puzzle once! I just do whatever and it works. If I put any worth into self expression with the mechanics this would be amazing; it asks a question and YOU , the player, get to decide the answer. I can say "Ha ha! Fuck you shrine! I'll just stack crates instead of solving the riddle!" But like...I play these things because I like the puzzle design. I don't get my rocks off when they make the puzzles I paid money for worth skipping. I don't play this series skirting around puzzles like brussel sprouts on the dinner plate. That's the main dish. Or was, I guess.
I see shrines as a polar negative of dungeons, not their evolution. These puzzles dont accomplish the same gameplay function as those of prior zelda's, and that's why people enjoy them, not due to their similarities. Puzzles make you feel stupid. Shrines make you feel big brain. It's a genius turn in accessible game design that has alienated me utterly. I love feeling stupid. :lol
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:wut
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I find old zelda puzzles too rigid. Yes, you used to get stuck in a great temple. But who has been stuck in a zelda dungeon since maybe MM, or maybe TP with the iceblock puzzle? We got stuck when 3d zelda was new. Once you familiarize yourself with the formula it's just that - a formula. Hookshot on grass, hookshot on walls, bomb this wall, fire this arrow. Zzz basic zelda shit. Having puzzles with open ended solutions is actually refreshing and this ties into the "classic Zelda is flabby as fuck" argument. It's the same shit since LTTP. Who the fuck wants more hookshot and other zzz worthy shit we've been doing 30 years?
You wanna get stuck in Zelda puzzles? Play Master Quest. Stuck? In a modern Zelda game? What modern Zelda's have you been playing? When was the last time you got stuck in a Zelda game?
This made events like Eventide all the more refreshing.
Classic Zelda? Who the fuck wants it anymore? I sure don't. It's something I've mastered. How many bombs can I bomb and fire arrows can I fire till I get bored?
Meanwhile, in GOAT of the Wild...
https://youtu.be/KX3D3CrwpvI
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Hookshot on grass?
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Hookshot on grass?
Play Master Quest. You hookshot on vines, which is what I'm referring to, all the time. You even hookshot on scarecrows.
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No one can convince me that there were multiple dungeons in BotW. The castle is the only dungeon in the game.
The expansion content was fuck hard and the rewards you get from it while worth it were given so late into my play through.
That said I enjoyed the smaller bites of content and the exploration the game provided. Hope they land the next one.
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I find old zelda puzzles too rigid. Yes, you used to get stuck in a great temple. But who has been stuck in a zelda dungeon since maybe MM, or maybe TP with the iceblock puzzle? We got stuck when 3d zelda was new.
I got stuck in the pirate ship in skyward sword. and in the lava dungeon, two places I remember despite not having played the game since it released. I'm stuck right now in my playthrough of oracle of ages! Just because Zelda was easy doesn't mean that there was no place for getting stuck in the design of it, really it's the least formulaic parts that are easiest to get stuck on.
Once you familiarize yourself with the formula it's just that - a formula. Hookshot on grass, hookshot on walls, bomb this wall, fire this arrow. Zzz basic zelda shit. Having puzzles with open ended solutions is actually refreshing and this ties into the "classic Zelda is flabby as fuck" argument.
I'm now like 40 hours into BOTW and I solve every puzzle with magnesis, stasis, arrows, and bombs. I solve them in the exact same ways because they all boil down to move metal block or burn these crates. How exactly is that different than old Zelda? Instead of checking a room for hookshot points I'm just flipping through my magic to see if anything glows or is magnetic, totally braindead. If there's wood you burn it. If you need to power a switch you just pull some lightning out of your bag of holding/ass and bypass the puzzle mechanism (Nothing more exciting than skipping content as a reward for mindless hoarding). Except, oh wait, old Zelda had fun items like Hookshots and Cane of Bryna and Hammers and Whips and Lenses of Truth. Stasis and Magnesis are limp shit and they're fucking everywhere.
You wanna get stuck in Zelda puzzles? Play Master Quest. Stuck? In a modern Zelda game? What modern Zelda's have you been playing? When was the last time you got stuck in a Zelda game?
This made events like Eventide all the more refreshing.
Classic Zelda? Who the fuck wants it anymore? I sure don't. It's something I've mastered. How many bombs can I bomb and fire arrows can I fire till I get bored?
Classic Zelda is something I've mastered too - but at least it's something that can be mastered. I haven't even been given the fucking the opportunity in BOTW! It seems like I accidentally mastered everything I could as soon as I figured out what the powers did (immediately) and after I see that everything revolves around temperature/fire/ice/electricity/physics (a few hours). Since then it's just been applying those same few lessons to move balls in holes. I get that there's opportunity to come up with a wacky and crazy solution to these puzzles myself but like...that isn't my job? It's certainly not why I'm playing a game with predesigned challenges and not just some theoretical Zelda Maker or whatever. Make the fucking puzzles fun and I won't feel the need to bypass them like apparently all the other players do. That's what I pay Nintendo money for. If I wanted to be creative myself I'd learn to paint, or just go play minecraft, and I sure as shit wouldn't call the end result a puzzle.
IDK. Obviously I'm in the superminority both commerically and critically but 3D Zelda took many years to grow stale for me and feel like I'm just going through the motions, but I hit that point pretty early on in BOTW and there's quite a bit of game left to go.
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BOTW had a number of dungeon like areas, like the mazes and the ancient temple. Plus without the climbing mechanic (which was added pretty late to the game) you would've had to run through gauntlets of enemies to go to shrines and such.
I think that they realized early in development that to make a dungeon they would have to make it really big to work in a game of this scale or turn Hyrule Castle into a dungeon that slowly opens up like they did with Phantom Hourglass.
Looking at the map and the world it is obvious that the game had some places that served as 'classic' dungeons at some point.
In pretty much every province there is a big structure, fortress or tower that could've obviously been its dungeon where you had to collect an item or power.
In one of the interviews they said that they planned to not give Link all his powers at the start.
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I find old zelda puzzles too rigid. Yes, you used to get stuck in a great temple. But who has been stuck in a zelda dungeon since maybe MM, or maybe TP with the iceblock puzzle? We got stuck when 3d zelda was new.
I got stuck in the pirate ship in skyward sword. and in the lava dungeon, two places I remember despite not having played the game since it released. I'm stuck right now in my playthrough of oracle of ages! Just because Zelda was easy doesn't mean that there was no place for getting stuck in the design of it, really it's the least formulaic parts that are easiest to get stuck on.
Once you familiarize yourself with the formula it's just that - a formula. Hookshot on grass, hookshot on walls, bomb this wall, fire this arrow. Zzz basic zelda shit. Having puzzles with open ended solutions is actually refreshing and this ties into the "classic Zelda is flabby as fuck" argument.
I'm now like 40 hours into BOTW and I solve every puzzle with magnesis, stasis, arrows, and bombs. I solve them in the exact same ways because they all boil down to move metal block or burn these crates. How exactly is that different than old Zelda? Instead of checking a room for hookshot points I'm just flipping through my magic to see if anything glows or is magnetic, totally braindead. If there's wood you burn it. If you need to power a switch you just pull some lightning out of your bag of holding/ass and bypass the puzzle mechanism (Nothing more exciting than skipping content as a reward for mindless hoarding). Except, oh wait, old Zelda had fun items like Hookshots and Cane of Bryna and Hammers and Whips and Lenses of Truth. Stasis and Magnesis are limp shit and they're fucking everywhere.
You wanna get stuck in Zelda puzzles? Play Master Quest. Stuck? In a modern Zelda game? What modern Zelda's have you been playing? When was the last time you got stuck in a Zelda game?
This made events like Eventide all the more refreshing.
Classic Zelda? Who the fuck wants it anymore? I sure don't. It's something I've mastered. How many bombs can I bomb and fire arrows can I fire till I get bored?
Classic Zelda is something I've mastered too - but at least it's something that can be mastered. I haven't even been given the fucking the opportunity in BOTW! It seems like I accidentally mastered everything I could as soon as I figured out what the powers did (immediately) and after I see that everything revolves around temperature/fire/ice/electricity/physics (a few hours). Since then it's just been applying those same few lessons to move balls in holes. I get that there's opportunity to come up with a wacky and crazy solution to these puzzles myself but like...that isn't my job? It's certainly not why I'm playing a game with predesigned challenges and not just some theoretical Zelda Maker or whatever. Make the fucking puzzles fun and I won't feel the need to bypass them like apparently all the other players do. That's what I pay Nintendo money for. If I wanted to be creative myself I'd learn to paint, or just go play minecraft, and I sure as shit wouldn't call the end result a puzzle.
IDK. Obviously I'm in the superminority both commerically and critically but 3D Zelda took many years to grow stale for me and feel like I'm just going through the motions, but I hit that point pretty early on in BOTW and there's quite a bit of game left to go.
have you done eventide or thunder plateau?
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A highlight of Eventide for me was getting one of the puzzle balls stuck in the mud pit, and putting an hour of time trying to scoop it out with other physical objects or sinking bombs to the bottom to blow it out.
I was unsuccessful :doge, but I learned a very useful tip. Equipping the stasis ability will highlight the majority of objects and items you can pick up in the environment.
That's a tip I'd use for the rest of the game.
:lawd
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDW-4zOOFTk
I forgot Skyward Sword made you use motion controls for flying and swimming. :dead
Blasting through that shit on a Switch Pro Controller and giving the middle finger to the original gameplay designers :miyamoto
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::)
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Gonna be flippin' and tiddlin' that right stick like you on some clitty. :win
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skyward sword gets a lot of shit for it's structure but the core game was really great and it looked fantastic, the back half of the game just got really stale. people overstate how bad waggle was imo. i quite enjoy dat shit. tired af of standard analog controllers
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have you done eventide or thunder plateau?
i mean, he's not wrong about the majority of shrine puzzles in botw. they got stale p fast. i love the game but i would just leave shrines when i entered after a while if they were a standard puzzle because they were so boring a oft tedious. i kinda came around to finding them relaxing/fun to grind out once id finished other content but they def brandead af. the shrine quests can be really great though. also, the couple shrines that have the tilt the switch to move ball through hole puzzles are the worst puzzles in any zelda ive played
eventide and thunder plateau are totally rad. there are so many great things in botw, but i can also see a lot of room for improvement in botw2. the master quest dungeon crawl is really great too. botw has a solid post game
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skyward sword gets a lot of shit for it's structure but the core game was really great and it looked fantastic, the back half of the game just got really stale. people overstate how bad waggle was imo. i quite enjoy dat shit. tired af of standard analog controllers
(https://media1.giphy.com/media/WXtccLGTLB1NS/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47sttbxmxl4dv03cp8vmvl0blizxjw3unreusuowxe&rid=giphy.gif)
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dual analog is absolute garbage and always has been. I've never been a pc gaymer, but I always agreed that keyboard n mouse is superior. pointer and motion controls got us closer to that.
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I use a mouse and keyboard as a wagie, I don't wanna deal with that trauma in my vidya too :trumps
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I remember I hated and avoided dual analogs my entire life and sticking to Nintendo made that pretty easy... until I wanted to git gud at Monster Hunter (before they added lock-on.)
Long story short, I got gud. :win
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i mean, i am good with a regular controller too. i am ok with the old dual analog, but think split controllers that can augment movement in games with natural arm/hand movement on top of dual analog (see nearly all vr controllers) is a positive move forward to something more natural. i also hate that companies are dropping the ball on classic inputs like dpad (ps5 dpad is absolute asscrack, one of the worst ive used since trying to use shitty 3rd party madcatz controllers on psx)
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Every control scheme has its drawbacks but to sit here and say you ACTUALLY ENJOY waggle proves that you were thrown onto the ground head first as a toddler as opposed to just innocently dropped
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i think spinning mario in galaxy or the sword motions to fight in ss were inoffensive through enjoyable and you're a drama queen to bitch about it like luigi cucked you. i liked skyward swords use of motion, pointer controls are the best way to play the metroid prime trilogy and RE4, warioware smooth moves is still hilarious shit, the sports games are still very good.
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a place i really hated waggle was dkc returns. holding the pad with both hands and shaking to roll was dumb af. im sure there are other scenarios i hated it in and im just forgetting. i forgot how much that specific game pissed me off you couldn't turn it off either.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_Q2wREAwRM
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The biggest problem I had with the wiimote weren't the motion controls itself. It's more that there's huge margins of error and sometimes the characters would do stuff I didn't want them to do. If it worked correctly 100% of the time, i'd prefer it over the old methods.
This carries over into the gyroscope aim in games like Splatoon as well. Constantly having to press R to recenter the controlls isn't my idea of fun.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_Q2wREAwRM
I stopped watching after he said "Majora's Mask is the best game ever made and has Tingle in it."
:nope
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I started replaying this on Cemu, might wait to play the sequel on an emulator because this shit is incredible in 4k 60fps. :drool