THE BORE

General => Video Game Bored => Topic started by: MMaRsu on April 05, 2021, 05:09:32 PM

Title: The coming console war
Post by: MMaRsu on April 05, 2021, 05:09:32 PM
(https://i.insider.com/57d842dcb0ef97f0288b51ea?width=700)

With Microsoft making huge steps in acquiring Bethesda, running the gambit around Sony with Gamepass having big titles available on launch day, who do you think will 'win' the coming console war? I feel like it hasn't really started, as only a small amount of units has been made available to the public. The games aren't really there yet either I feel like.

(https://cdn.britannica.com/s:300x169,c:crop/72/103172-050-22192450/J-Allard-Bill-Gates-Microsoft-media-players.jpg)
Microsoft
Big acquirement of studios such as:
-inXile Entertainment (Wasteland series)
-Obsidian Entertainment(New Vegas/Stick of Truth)
-Double Fine Productions (Psychonauts,Brutal Legend)
-ZeniMax Media including Arkane Studios (Dishonored/Prey), Bethesda Softworks(Elder Scrolls Skyrim/Fallout), ID Software (Quake/DOOM)

Game Pass Day One Titles including Outriders or MLB 2021 The Show day.
-New first-party Xbox titles will be part of its Xbox Game Pass subscription service – day-and-date with their retail release.

Massive Backwards Compatibility
-568 Xbox 360 games, and 39 original Xbox games are available to play on Xbox Series S/X, most including patches to run the games at higher resolutions and/or framerate.

(https://www.kmuw.org/sites/kmuw/files/201507/Ken_kutaragi.jpg)
Sony

Coming out of the PS4 as the clear winner, some feel like 'arrogant' Sony is back. Shutting down old stores and denying any forms of backwards compatibility they have the home advantage but their current attitude isn't liked by most Sony fans. They still have the best first party studio output and don't seem to be slowing down on that front.

Public advantage and huge in Europe
-
Quote
The PS4 has sold three times the amount of the Xbox One in Europe, according to Sony exec Jim Ryan. "It's been pleasing that in North America, we've been 2-to-1 against Xbox,"

First Party Studio output has been great
-TLOU, TLOU II, God of War, Ghost of Tsushima, Uncharted, Spiderman, Horizon Zero Dawn, Ratchet & Clank, Demon Souls are all amazing games. Most of these games have reviewed +90 on Metacritic.

Personally I haven't picked up either system yet, but so far the Xbox Series X seems a clear winner to me. For me the ability to play and replay my old Xbox games is a pretty big deal, and I hope that Microsoft really starts putting more titles from the OG library and from the 360 library into BC. Their Gamepass initiative has really paid off, and it seems to be drawing more and more gamers. Their publicity on this is also always positive, so it's always a win win for them.

Sony to me seems a bit more arrogant, and isn't willing to focus on anything before PS4. With their abandonment of their legacy titles, I feel less inclined to invest in their current ecosystem.

Maybe we can use this topic throughout the years to see how it goes, I feel like this one might take awhile to get going. Also can we get a Poll? Microsoft/Sony? <3
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Great Rumbler on April 05, 2021, 05:13:15 PM
All Microsoft games are on PC and even Sony is putting first/second party exclusives on PC.

PC stays winning, as usual.

Console peasants btfo
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: MMaRsu on April 05, 2021, 05:14:37 PM
I kinda forgot that yeah Microsoft is also putting massive weight into their PC presence. Sony is starting to dabble in putting their games on PC, which HZD has sold well so far. I don't see uhh that zombie game doing all that well. Rumors are still going that Bloodborne is coming to PC, which should be a multi million seller if so.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Lonewulfeus on April 05, 2021, 05:18:03 PM
Soyny is muff garbage.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Tasty on April 05, 2021, 05:23:23 PM
Nintendo be like (https://i.imgur.com/bdZ23VQl.png) Switch Pro go brrr
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: MMaRsu on April 05, 2021, 05:40:49 PM
I didnt include Nintendo because they always do their own thing, and I feel like at this moment they kind of exist outside the traditional 'console war'

But yeah they go brrrr
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: paprikastaude on April 05, 2021, 05:43:44 PM
Nintendo is peak anti-consumer right now, Sony showing signs of getting back into that same arrogance mode also. Both need a bitch slap badly. However, that would lead to an even faster rise of Spencer's gaming Netflix and I'm not really fond of that. I already don't like streaming for movies and I absolutely didn#t care for Gamepass in the 2 months I bought it for PC.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Tasty on April 05, 2021, 05:48:56 PM
I feel like even at this point Sony and Microsoft dap Nintendo sometimes. They've legit moved on to a different direction. I feel like in the 360 era, the "Nintendo aren't our competitors" stuff was just talk from Sony and Microsoft, but I actually believe it these days.

(https://i.imgur.com/tu38kso.gif)
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Let's Cyber on April 05, 2021, 05:49:33 PM
I could see myself grabbing a Series X eventually; I have a sizable physical 360 library. MS didn't completely screw the pooch like they did in 2014.

Idk, I'll probably just keep playing games and enjoying myself. Brand loyalty is for losers. 
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Tasty on April 05, 2021, 05:51:27 PM
Quote
Coming out of the PS4 as the clear winner, some feel like 'arrogant' Sony is back.

Man I wish. The memes out of arrogant Sony are always legendary :lawd
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on April 05, 2021, 05:51:37 PM
Microsoft bought 6(?) studios had no launch games and Halo is going nowhere.

Soyny has a chip running at such high clocks they're stuck with low yields until their console refresh.

With the S Microsoft lowered the entry bar for competitors dramatically.

Nvidia holds the keys to the best price/performance ratio via DLSS. But it doesn't matter because crypto miners buy all the GPU's.

In terms of war Sony and MS are fighting in the trenches while Nintendo, Epic, Valve, Tencent and Nvidia are eating grapes and drinking wine behind the front.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: benjipwns on April 05, 2021, 07:27:47 PM
https://twitter.com/NextGenPlayer/status/1378861358373015554
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: The Sceneman on April 05, 2021, 07:31:09 PM
by carefully selecting letters, you too can spell words
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: benjipwns on April 05, 2021, 07:33:57 PM
by carefully selecting letters, you too can spell words
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EyOVgOeWUAA4VK5?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: The Sceneman on April 05, 2021, 07:51:40 PM
:rejoice
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: naff on April 05, 2021, 09:00:24 PM
i really like the series x and ms's dedication to bc and simple, effective hardware design. just don't know what the point of owning xbox is if you have a pc though. both hardwares are so similar who cares, but i love the series bc and the ps5 controller has the worst dpad i've used since 3rd party psx pads. have heard the series controller dpad is fine/good so series wins the hardware race by default, though the ps actually has a couple new games to play hence owning this thing. do love how quiet it is, but it's mostly just a ps4 bc unit atm.

lately, if there's a cross platform indie/online store title i want to play on switch and ps i'll buy it on switch even if the implementation is a little worse because the pro controller is so much better than the dualshock 5. kinda messed up since the dualshock 4 dpad is better than both, not sure how sony screwed up such a basic component so bad. might need to get a ds4 just for bc games.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Potato on April 05, 2021, 10:04:58 PM
At this point I'm happy to play wait and see. Neither console is offering anything compelling and both are absurdly priced. I don't really care much for AAA bullshit or Sony's interactive movies, so their appeal is very limited.

My laptop is well past its replacement date and I'm thinking a mid-range gaming PC might be the best solution once it shits itself.

Until then, Switch and PS4 are still satisfying my gaming habits.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on April 06, 2021, 04:40:05 AM
At this point I'm happy to play wait and see. Neither console is offering anything compelling and both are absurdly priced. I don't really care much for AAA bullshit or Sony's interactive movies, so their appeal is very limited.

My laptop is well past its replacement date and I'm thinking a mid-range gaming PC might be the best solution once it shits itself.

Until then, Switch and PS4 are still satisfying my gaming habits.
Bought an RTX 3060 notebook for an employee the other day. She can play pretty much anything now. I told her battery life would be an issue but she believed the 4 - 6 hours  from the specs  :trumps
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Don Rumata on April 06, 2021, 07:08:44 AM
At this point I'm happy to play wait and see. Neither console is offering anything compelling and both are absurdly priced. I don't really care much for AAA bullshit or Sony's interactive movies, so their appeal is very limited.

My laptop is well past its replacement date and I'm thinking a mid-range gaming PC might be the best solution once it shits itself.

Until then, Switch and PS4 are still satisfying my gaming habits.
Bought an RTX 3060 notebook for an employee the other day. She can play pretty much anything now. I told her battery life would be an issue but she believed the 4 - 6 hours  from the specs  :trumps
SIMP.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Pissy F Benny on April 06, 2021, 07:48:49 AM
more like the cooming console war

:dice
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 06, 2021, 07:48:59 AM
Rooting for MS. Sony needs to be humbled. Nintendo has done a great job in making themselves the platform for Japanese exclusives, something Sony doesn't care about anymore, which gave them much leeway over MS. Now all MS has to do is take their western game lunch and outflank them. They're doing a good job instilling good will with gamers while Sony is cashing that shit in as if at a pawn shop. Sony deserves to be humbled. They think they are owed service but have done jack and shit to sell the Ps5 as a system besides brand power.

I say this as someone with a vast PlayStation collection which apparently PlayStation thinks doesn't count for much. Fuck them.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on April 06, 2021, 08:00:45 AM
At this point I'm happy to play wait and see. Neither console is offering anything compelling and both are absurdly priced. I don't really care much for AAA bullshit or Sony's interactive movies, so their appeal is very limited.

My laptop is well past its replacement date and I'm thinking a mid-range gaming PC might be the best solution once it shits itself.

Until then, Switch and PS4 are still satisfying my gaming habits.
Bought an RTX 3060 notebook for an employee the other day. She can play pretty much anything now. I told her battery life would be an issue but she believed the 4 - 6 hours  from the specs  :trumps
SIMP.
It's called working from home. I'd rather have her productive with a decent setup than dropping out of ZOOM or Discord when screen sharing with more than 2 people.  :doge
Her BF has a decent flightsim rig but he is WFH as well.

In that sense the tech/creative field has changed. When I started WFH I needed to buy a new webcam but already had a rig, comfy chair, yeti blue mic and a decent headset and everything. 
Half of our employees are using their work PC's at home and bring their work headsets because they don't have decent enough specs to do their work otherwise :dizzy

Also our government plans to tax companies that are profitable during the pandemic so I'm getting a big raise for my hard work at increasing our revenue during this crisis and we're going to invest in crypto instead  8)
The market is completely broken with competitors still sucking on big government mommy milkers a year later while they undercut the competition. Knowing that they can up their prices again when this bullshit is over and clients can't break contracts.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Joe Molotov on April 06, 2021, 09:45:42 AM
Rooting for MS. Sony needs to be humbled. Nintendo has done a great job in making themselves the platform for Japanese exclusives, something Sony doesn't care about anymore, which gave them much leeway over MS. Now all MS has to do is take their western game lunch and outflank them. They're doing a good job instilling good will with gamers while Sony is cashing that shit in as if at a pawn shop. Sony deserves to be humbled. They think they are owed service but have done jack and shit to sell the Ps5 as a system besides brand power.

I say this as someone with a vast PlayStation collection which apparently PlayStation thinks doesn't count for much. Fuck them.

Microsoft will put Sony in the Camel Clutch. Break their back, make them humble.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: BIONIC on April 06, 2021, 11:04:03 AM
:sheik
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: tiesto on April 06, 2021, 11:24:02 AM
Really taking a wait and see approach. I'll probably default to PS5 again since even though Sony killed their Japanese first parties, I don't see the mid-sized Japanese third parties that made the PS4 so enticing (and whose games I mostly am interested in) moving away from Sony. Falcom in particular. Also, Sony owns Evo so that'll ensure the fighting game genre is dominant on PS5, and FF16/7r are coming as timed exclusives. 

I do have to say that the Series X is much more enticing than the One ever was. I really like MS actually attempting to respect their legacy with their BC, even if overall their legacy doesn't appeal to me the way Sony's and Nintendo's do. And Phil S seems to be intent on fixing the largest criticisms of the Mattrick era - namely the lack of exclusives. I wouldn't be surprised if they tried the early 360 era of moneyhatting Japanese games again (my favorite period ever in Xbox history). Say, Lost Odyssey 2 and an exclusive Tales game would be fry_shutupandtakemymoney.gif

Do we know the PS5 vs Series X sales ratio at this point? I haven't seen anything. Anecdotal evidence for me is that the PS5 has a lot more hype with the casual fanbase.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Pissy F Benny on April 06, 2021, 11:28:03 AM
PS5 is probably winning easily, idk about elsewhere but there has been a steadyish supply of them in the UK (all snapped up straight away obviously) and I think the Series X has been in available maybe three times at most over here. The Series S is in stock quite often though.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: mormapope on April 06, 2021, 11:35:53 AM
Microsoft is future proofing Xbox as a whole, Nintendo has the best and most first party games combined with a form factor people love, Sony is reliant on their biggest first party games and brand recognition to carry their platform.

All three will coexist this gen and all will be successful. Sony's handling of it's older libraries and software stuff as a whole has been pretty shitty, but that isn't affecting them with short term stuff. Long term, they will most likely suffer some consequences.

If games like Elden Ring are day 1 Game Pass games, but cost $60 for the PS5 version, stuff like that is gonna hurt Sony more and more as time goes on.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: tiesto on April 06, 2021, 11:36:01 AM
Nintendo is peak anti-consumer right now,

Right now? Nintendo's been peak anti-consumer since the NES...
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: thetylerrob on April 06, 2021, 11:47:14 AM
The Gamecube was down to $100 by late 2003 and you could buy the most popular games for $20 if they had the Player's Choice label.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Tasty on April 06, 2021, 11:50:13 AM
Nintendo is peak anti-consumer right now,

Right now? Nintendo's been peak anti-consumer since the NES...

Let's just compromise and say they've remained at an elevated level of anti-consumer since the time they relaunched the console industry. :P

I'm extremely happy the Switch is region-free though, and even purchasing out-of-market digital games on the eShop is supported and straightforward. :)

I'm also really happy Nintendo's kept on USB (now USB-C!) and SD cards. *looks over at Sony and the Vita especially*
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 06, 2021, 12:12:01 PM
Really taking a wait and see approach. I'll probably default to PS5 again since even though Sony killed their Japanese first parties, I don't see the mid-sized Japanese third parties that made the PS4 so enticing (and whose games I mostly am interested in) moving away from Sony. Falcom in particular. Also, Sony owns Evo so that'll ensure the fighting game genre is dominant on PS5, and FF16/7r are coming as timed exclusives. 

I do have to say that the Series X is much more enticing than the One ever was. I really like MS actually attempting to respect their legacy with their BC, even if overall their legacy doesn't appeal to me the way Sony's and Nintendo's do. And Phil S seems to be intent on fixing the largest criticisms of the Mattrick era - namely the lack of exclusives. I wouldn't be surprised if they tried the early 360 era of moneyhatting Japanese games again (my favorite period ever in Xbox history). Say, Lost Odyssey 2 and an exclusive Tales game would be fry_shutupandtakemymoney.gif

Do we know the PS5 vs Series X sales ratio at this point? I haven't seen anything. Anecdotal evidence for me is that the PS5 has a lot more hype with the casual fanbase.

Right now ps5 is winning and could take the generation because it's seen as the default. My hope is MS brings their dukes and reverses it SNES DKC style.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 06, 2021, 12:19:11 PM
Microsoft is future proofing Xbox as a whole, Nintendo has the best and most first party games combined with a form factor people love, Sony is reliant on their biggest first party games and brand recognition to carry their platform.

All three will coexist this gen and all will be successful. Sony's handling of it's older libraries and software stuff as a whole has been pretty shitty, but that isn't affecting them with short term stuff. Long term, they will most likely suffer some consequences.

If games like Elden Ring are day 1 Game Pass games, but cost $60 for the PS5 version, stuff like that is gonna hurt Sony more and more as time goes on.

Long term what's impacting Sony is treating Japanese games and Japanese game fans as pointless when they've never been more popular. Nintendo is snatching and take away things of interest from PS like Monster Hunter Rise. As Sony neglects Japanese games this takes away from their portfolio variety - one of their biggest strengths traditionally. By focusing on dad simulator games they make Nintendo Switch more enticing to Japanese game fans because Sony isn't investing in it. MS just has to snatch some stuff away and PlayStation's luster will fade. A big part of Sony's success in the past was their variety: they catered to every game can across the map. By relying on third party to carry them they're taking those developers for granted as if they'll always be there. What happens when a company steals a few?

Consider MS or Sony Democratic or Republican and Switch as third party. By not appealing to certain fans Sony is losing votes to third party. Oscar himself is buying an Xbox series instead of PS5.

Sony is arrogant and time after time, we've seen what happens to arrogant game companies. They're losing a lot of good will. I don't expect them to be on top by next gen.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Tasty on April 06, 2021, 01:14:28 PM
Switch getting Rise was a natural outcome of Sony contractually locking Nintendo out of getting World when they gave Capcom cash for that back in the day. There was no way the dominant "portable" system in Japan wasn't getting a MH game, and I'm sure Capcom told Sony as such lol.

So because of Sony, instead of Switch getting a late, graphically inferior port of World that few people cared about, it's getting a buzzy console exclusive with all new monsters and mechanics, and is seen internally as Monster Hunter 6. I wonder if Sony has reflected and realized they were being shortsighted with that Capcom deal ("we don't care about Microsoft, just don't let Nintendo have it.")

(The Sony/Capcom stuff is rumor/speculation I should say.)

Agree with the rest of your post. :)
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 06, 2021, 01:45:24 PM
Switch getting Rise was a natural outcome of Sony contractually locking Nintendo out of getting World when they gave Capcom cash for that back in the day. There was no way the dominant "portable" system in Japan wasn't getting a MH game, and I'm sure Capcom told Sony as such lol.

So because of Sony, instead of Switch getting a late, graphically inferior port of World that few people cared about, it's getting a buzzy console exclusive with all new monsters and mechanics, and is seen internally as Monster Hunter 6. I wonder if Sony has reflected and realized they were being shortsighted with that Capcom deal ("we don't care about Microsoft, just don't let Nintendo have it.")

(The Sony/Capcom stuff is rumor/speculation I should say.)

Agree with the rest of your post. :)

Sony won't care because Sony has handed PlayStation to Americans whose only care is dem dollah bills. Short term thinking is modern PlayStation thinking. They won't reflect, and Nintendo will continue to take advantsge of Sony as they become the center for Japanese games. But Japanese games was a core part of Sony's appeal. But current Sony (again, managed by Americans and Europoors) belittles that history and doesn't think it's that important.

Combined, Nintendo and Microsoft can do a pretty painful bitch slap to Sony and I'm looking forward to seeing it and their current fanboys cry.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: paprikastaude on April 06, 2021, 01:48:40 PM
Nintendo is peak anti-consumer right now,

Right now? Nintendo's been peak anti-consumer since the NES...

At least they didn't wilfully sell broken NES controllers for its entire life cycle. At least there usually were a few more big games between their overpriced ports/remasters, which are now more overpriced than ever in 1st party droughts bigger than ever (considering that they don't support two platforms anymore) - now that they found out they can totally exploit the nostalgia-ridden manbabies that they've raised into having zero standards.

lol at rooting for more of this shit.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Human Snorenado on April 06, 2021, 01:53:31 PM
MS has the best services for gamers

Sony has the best exclusives

Normally dog would be right upthread re: PC master race BUT JUST YOU TRY FUCKING BUILDING A NEW PC RIGHT NOW OR ANYTIME THIS YEAR so basically I'm buying a PS5 when I can get one because I absolutely do not give a fuck about gamepass, I barely like gaming but when I do want to play a game it will be in the shiniest way possible

Nintendo is babby but enjoyable babby
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on April 06, 2021, 01:55:32 PM
Re: monster hunter

Third parties aren't in any way shape or form 'loyal' to platform holders anymore, because there is no longer a need for them to bet on the 'right horse' in terms of technology or otherwise.
It's more a question of 'how many horses' they decide to bet on and when.

All Sony could do was stall the release of a new Monster Hunter on Nintendo systems as Capcom would not want to canabilize the sales of its own games.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 06, 2021, 02:00:20 PM
Sony? Exclusives? Pretty much every game that interests me isn't exclusive to PS.

Nintendo makes games that you don't have to just press up to beat.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Human Snorenado on April 06, 2021, 02:23:34 PM
Sony? Exclusives? Pretty much every game that interests me isn't exclusive to PS.

Nintendo makes games that you don't have to just press up to beat.

That's nice  :)
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Tuckers Law on April 06, 2021, 02:33:09 PM
We should’ve known Sony was headed into the dumpster as soon as they began putting euros in lead positions.  I mean, look at the kind of janky and floaty platformers they used to make on their amigas and whatnot.  They were a harbinger of doom to come.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: paprikastaude on April 06, 2021, 03:09:54 PM
Nintendo isn't going to steal anyone's support from Japan. Four years in and the majority that Switch gets is still old ports, remasters and more old ports. Around the same time, Nintendo DS was already rocking major franchises like Castlevania, Sonic, Contra, SMT, Ninja Gaiden, Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest and the majority of new IP from Japan with exclusive releases that were mostly superior to their console counterparts. Even PSP had a stronger grip on new Japanese exclusives than Switch  :doge Maybe because everyone knows you can rip off the Switch userbase no problem.

Monster Hunter is their first big get and we already know Capcom's leaked lineup. They'll cash in on Rise with a G version and then release Monster Hunter for Next Gen ~2022/23. Resident Evil will also get a spinoff for Nintendo after 8, before they'll continue making 9 and 4REmake on Next Gen.
MS will have to snap these things away continuously as day 1 Gamepass releases or something, otherwise Playstation will remain the platform that people will get Persona, Nier, Resident Evil, etc. on.

We should’ve known Sony was headed into the dumpster as soon as they began putting euros in lead positions.  I mean, look at the kind of janky and floaty platformers they used to make on their amigas and whatnot.  They were a harbinger of doom to come.

Considering the succcess of PS4, I have no idea why they replaced all the people that made it good. While Jim Ryan is the one that needed to be booted, badly :camby
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: mormapope on April 06, 2021, 03:43:29 PM
Nintendo must be doing something right, if they were the smelliest and most sickly dog in the room, 70 million Switches wouldn't have been sold. If you wanna guage the actual man babies, it would be anyone that bought a Wii-U.

Better yet, let's look at the Wii/DS period. Were there great DS games? Sure. Meanwhile, the Wii was basically a sea of D tier budget stinky dogshit games, with a few gems released periodically. One of those gems, Xenoblade Chronicles, took an online campaign and months and months of begging for Nintendo to port.

The Wii-U era was dismal. Even the 3DS, while it has a good library, was conceived as a 3D TV gimmick. Who the fuck in the past ten years has ever said "this 3DS game has excellent 3D, it utilizes 3D incredibly well!"

Nintendo has been consistent with all their software and design decisions for the past four years. Consistency isn't always exciting, god knows we all want a Team Ninja Metroid game again, or a videogame console or platform built around gimmicks, but consistency matters.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Tuckers Law on April 06, 2021, 03:51:31 PM
Switch owners been eating well on reheated leftovers from the Wii U.   :ufup

The system had its problems, yeah, but it also had a MiiVerse, so there!
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: paprikastaude on April 06, 2021, 03:53:44 PM
Nintendo must be doing something right, if they were the smelliest and most sickly dog in the room, 70 million Switches wouldn't have been sold. If you wanna guage the actual man babies, it would be anyone that bought a Wii-U.

Good for their marketing team. Doesn't change the reality that you won't be playing big mainline 3rd party Japanese games on Switch in the years to come, just like you couldn't in the last four years. Because apparently publishers view it as a port dumpster, while the main teams at FROM, Square, Capcom, etc. who did PS4/Bone games seem to continue doing next gen development, only now dropping a side game like Rise for a change.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: mormapope on April 06, 2021, 04:01:16 PM
Nintendo must be doing something right, if they were the smelliest and most sickly dog in the room, 70 million Switches wouldn't have been sold. If you wanna guage the actual man babies, it would be anyone that bought a Wii-U.

Good for their marketing team. Doesn't change the reality that you won't be playing big mainline 3rd party Japanese games on Switch in the years to come, just like you couldn't in the last four years. Because apparently publishers view it as a port dumpster, while the main teams at FROM, Square, Capcom, etc. who did PS4/Bone games seem to continue doing next gen development, only now dropping a side game like Rise for a change.

This seems like an issue for Switch only owners that, for some reason, are expecting ports of mainline games to come out even if a Switch version is never announced.

Why do you think the Switch is successful? Has Nintendo done absolutely nothing right in your opinion, and somehow fell into global success due to.....what exactly?

Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Tuckers Law on April 06, 2021, 04:16:49 PM
Angry at Nintendo has been spieler’s thing since forever, you get used to it.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Tasty on April 06, 2021, 04:24:02 PM
Nintendo admitted there was a Joy-Con flaw during a class-action lawsuit about Joy-Con flaws. They're also replacing them for free for the life of the controller, even out of warranty.

Yes, the flaw should be fixed. Maybe there are factors behind the scenes we're not aware of.

Short of the flaw being fixed, Nintendo's current stance is just about the most reasonable one you could expect of them. Maybe at the start, they handled things poorly, but I don't find fault with how they're acting regarding Joy-Cons these days.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Mr. Gundam on April 06, 2021, 04:39:53 PM
The Gamecube was down to $100 by late 2003 and you could buy the most popular games for $20 if they had the Player's Choice label.

That was when I grabbed a Gamecube and shitton of games for cheap. I was pretty stunned when I got a Switch and all the three year old games were still $60. RIP Players Choice.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: paprikastaude on April 06, 2021, 04:45:59 PM
Nintendo must be doing something right, if they were the smelliest and most sickly dog in the room, 70 million Switches wouldn't have been sold. If you wanna guage the actual man babies, it would be anyone that bought a Wii-U.

Good for their marketing team. Doesn't change the reality that you won't be playing big mainline 3rd party Japanese games on Switch in the years to come, just like you couldn't in the last four years. Because apparently publishers view it as a port dumpster, while the main teams at FROM, Square, Capcom, etc. who did PS4/Bone games seem to continue doing next gen development, only now dropping a side game like Rise for a change.

This seems like an issue for Switch only owners that, for some reason, are expecting ports of mainline games to come out even if a Switch version is never announced.

Why do you think the Switch is successful? Has Nintendo done absolutely nothing right in your opinion, and somehow fell into global success due to.....what exactly?

Certain expectations here seem that Switch can take the spot from others as the main place for Japanese gaming. Maybe that's true if your understanding of capturing main Japanese support is old re-releases and collections. If you mean playing the latest Final Fantasy, Devil May Cry, Nier, Nioh, Sekiro, or even small shit like Yakuza, etc., then that doesn't seem to be happening. Because what they are doing right for sales clearly doesn't correlate with that as an option for gamers. It reminds me of the GBA, which, despite its enormous sales success, I have no appreciation for, because of its overwhelming reliance on S/NES/Genesis ports and remakes. Monster Hunter might be opening the way up for a few sidegames, but there's been no signs of Switch getting main support anytime soon. But I guess that'd be good enough for me, if these games like "RE Outrage/Revelations 3" actually are exclusive. tbf I'd long have bought a Switch for such things if it didn't have broken controllers.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: tiesto on April 06, 2021, 06:09:26 PM
The Gamecube was down to $100 by late 2003 and you could buy the most popular games for $20 if they had the Player's Choice label.

That was when I grabbed a Gamecube and shitton of games for cheap. I was pretty stunned when I got a Switch and all the three year old games were still $60. RIP Players Choice.

Gamecube library is now super sought-after... I've seen even famous, successful titles like Eternal Darkness and first party games go for $100. Then you have heavy hitters like Fire Emblem and Cubivore going for $300+. Even the component cables and the GBA Player are pretty expensive.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Rahxephon91 on April 06, 2021, 07:43:58 PM
Microsoft doesn’t make games I care about and I don’t care about Gamepass.

Nintendo doesn’t make things I care about, but there’s the occasional 3rd party exclusive or thing from Monolith Soft. Sucks that they are stuck on the Switch, but it is what it is.

Sony makes games I like and will still have 3rd party support.

That’s pretty much how I view things.

Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Rahxephon91 on April 06, 2021, 08:44:08 PM
Sony? Exclusives? Pretty much every game that interests me isn't exclusive to PS.

Nintendo makes games that you don't have to just press up to beat.
:comeon
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Tasty on April 06, 2021, 08:51:19 PM
Sony? Exclusives? Pretty much every game that interests me isn't exclusive to PS.

Nintendo makes games that you don't have to just press up to beat.
:comeon

Thread: The coming Cindi/Rahx war
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: remy on April 06, 2021, 09:53:14 PM
Nintendo must be doing something right, if they were the smelliest and most sickly dog in the room, 70 million Switches wouldn't have been sold. If you wanna guage the actual man babies, it would be anyone that bought a Wii-U.

Good for their marketing team. Doesn't change the reality that you won't be playing big mainline 3rd party Japanese games on Switch in the years to come, just like you couldn't in the last four years. Because apparently publishers view it as a port dumpster, while the main teams at FROM, Square, Capcom, etc. who did PS4/Bone games seem to continue doing next gen development, only now dropping a side game like Rise for a change.

calling rise a side game lmao
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on April 06, 2021, 10:01:21 PM
If you mean playing the latest Final Fantasy, Devil May Cry, Nier, Nioh, Sekiro, or even small shit like Yakuza, etc., then that doesn't seem to be happening.

Ditch Playstation and Xbox.  Get PC and Switch.  The best way to go.
:lawd
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Rahxephon91 on April 07, 2021, 12:14:52 AM
There's no war, I just think that's a shallow insult. You can like Nintendo more, think their games are more creative, better designed, have more variety, or just, in general, think they are better. That's fine. I just think comparing them on some abstract and pointless "which ones more hardcore" is antiquated thinking. Games are more than which one is more tough and challenging. There's plenty of different factors at play that will speak to different people differntly. I think talking about the difficulty in games is stupid.  What I find hard, another may find easy, and vice versa.

That said I don't think people loved Breath of the Wild for its combat. While a gamer raised on Capcom may find God of War's mechanics easily breakable, another may find it a challenging action game. Either way I think saying it's "just press a button" is a bit reductive. Both publishers make casual friendly mass-market games. Sony stuff may be more checklesty and production values over all else, but I don't think most of them have no merits as games. Nintendo stuff may be better designed for you, but I don't think most modern Nintendo games are some hardcore intense deep mechanics games either.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: remy on April 07, 2021, 12:32:39 AM
god of war? more like hog sized bore  :lol
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: MMaRsu on April 07, 2021, 02:20:33 AM
Microsoft doesn’t make games I care about

Yet
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: remy on April 07, 2021, 02:23:21 AM
Microsoft published Doom Eternal. The best FPS I've played in years, would love to see Sony's attempt at publishing a game like that.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Raist on April 07, 2021, 02:49:52 AM
Microsoft published Doom Eternal. The best FPS I've played in years, would love to see Sony's attempt at publishing a game like that.


Can't wait for the next Doom to be in dev hell for 5 years and look like an N64 game when it's revealed :hyper
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: remy on April 07, 2021, 03:00:36 AM
Microsoft's First Party title Wolfenstien: the new order had the kind of cinematic pathos Sony first party could only dream of executing
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Rahxephon91 on April 07, 2021, 03:21:25 AM
Microsoft doesn’t make games I care about

Yet
Trust me, buying Bethesda, I company who’s output I don’t give a shit about, isn’t changing anything.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Rahxephon91 on April 07, 2021, 03:22:40 AM
Microsoft published Doom Eternal. The best FPS I've played in years, would love to see Sony's attempt at publishing a game like that.
Sure fits the MS mo of buying somebody else’s work and taking credit.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: HardcoreRetro on April 07, 2021, 04:43:02 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:PlayStation_4-only_games (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:PlayStation_4-only_games)

Which of these are the amazing exclusives PS4 actually had? Exclusive wise all consoles have been pretty slim pickings the last generation.

Edit:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Nintendo_Switch-only_games (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Nintendo_Switch-only_games)

Looks like the Switch that has no games had more exclusives so far than the PS4?
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: paprikastaude on April 07, 2021, 06:23:57 AM
The biggest strength of PS4 was you didn't have to care about exclusives, because it simply had every relevant game of its time, mostly guaranteed day1. Monster Hunter World released also on Bone, but way late on PC. Nier on PC, but like a year late on Bone. Yakuza only 3 years later on Bone. Other variations of split releases for Nioh, Crash Bandicoot, etc. Get a PS4 and you didn't need to ever care about that. I was surprised browsing Amazon and seeing even games I thought were exclusive to PC or Switch or whatever actually being silent multiplats too. When MS showed many interesting games a few years ago at E3, it was like, thanks for the great PS4 lineup.

Other things were released PS4/Switch, PC/PS4, or in other combinations, but it almost always contained PS4 last gen if it wasn't 1st party. If you wanted to have last gen in a single library, you get a PS4.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: remy on April 07, 2021, 06:33:15 AM
The advantage of the PS4 is sony will bribe companies to guarantee that your friends on PC have to wait six months  :heart
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: paprikastaude on April 07, 2021, 06:41:18 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Nintendo_Switch-only_games (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Nintendo_Switch-only_games)

Looks like the Switch that has no games had more exclusives so far than the PS4?

Mario 35 :doge

Pikmin 4 :confused

Metroid Prime 4 :lol

Skyward Sword :dead
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: HardcoreRetro on April 07, 2021, 07:03:14 AM
Pretending that the PS4 list doesn't have stinkers?

The Tomorrow Children and Drawn to Death fall in the same category as Mario 35 in that they're all dead. (Which is a shame in The Tomorrow Children's case since that game was actually a cool concept.)
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: BIONIC on April 07, 2021, 07:25:31 AM
Get a job ya dirty bums and you can play whatever you want without having to gobble any one company’s cock  :money  :gamer
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: HardcoreRetro on April 07, 2021, 07:28:39 AM
I own all the consoles. I just don't get what they're going on about.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Svejk on April 07, 2021, 07:34:12 AM
The advantage of the PS4 is sony will bribe companies to guarantee that your friends on PC have to wait six months  :heart
I feel this is Sony's shtick lately, and it totally works for me.  Getting first call on a release is a big deal to a lot.  Death Stranding, FFVIIR, REVII(VR)...  There's a bunch of folks that don't care and would rather wait for the "superior" PC version, and that's fine, but getting a chance to play a bigger named title first elsewhere is kinda awesome.  They may not be buying up studios and destroying them like MS, let them money hat certain titles. 
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 07, 2021, 08:19:52 AM
Seriously, what exclusives besides Bloodborne? Persona 5? Uncharted 4? The only reason PS4 took off was because the Xbox used game fuck up. Remember that.

It ran games better than Xbone and that's about it. But most games were on other systems.

Looking forward to SaGa Frontier HD, which is coming out on ps4. Oh wait, I'm getting that on my Swtich.

The only reason people settled with ps4 was because the used game shit that turned the tide away from Xbone, which at the time was seen at the system projected to get. But most games on ps4 are on other platforms. The only reason we went with ps4 was because it was convenient. Console gaming is convenient.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on April 07, 2021, 08:20:40 AM
The biggest strength of PS4 was you didn't have to care about exclusives, because it simply had every relevant game of its time, mostly guaranteed day1. Monster Hunter World released also on Bone, but way late on PC. Nier on PC, but like a year late on Bone. Yakuza only 3 years later on Bone. Other variations of split releases for Nioh, Crash Bandicoot, etc. Get a PS4 and you didn't need to ever care about that. I was surprised browsing Amazon and seeing even games I thought were exclusive to PC or Switch or whatever actually being silent multiplats too. When MS showed many interesting games a few years ago at E3, it was like, thanks for the great PS4 lineup.

Other things were released PS4/Switch, PC/PS4, or in other combinations, but it almost always contained PS4 last gen if it wasn't 1st party. If you wanted to have last gen in a single library, you get a PS4.

Pretty sure we've had this discussion already- when I look back at the games I own or owned on PS4, the vast majority are all available on PS3, Vita, Xbox One, PC, and/or Switch.  I could have not owned a PS4 and played just about everything I would have wanted to.  The exceptions are pretty much the few Sony-published games I care about, like Uncharted.  Unsure if those games are on PS Now.  If they are, then that's irrelevant too.

The one single platform that has massively improved in terms of its library "competing" with other platforms is PC.  The last 10 years especially have seen things change quite a bit and now it's normal for console games to see PC releases.  "Exclusive" console games also come out on PC. 
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on April 07, 2021, 08:23:15 AM
Microsoft doesn’t make games I care about

Yet

He can just buy them on PC if he cares.  Game Pass is now the console's strength.

Microsoft published Doom Eternal. The best FPS I've played in years, would love to see Sony's attempt at publishing a game like that.
Sure fits the MS mo of buying somebody else’s work and taking credit.

Yes, because nobody else ever does this.  :brain

Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 07, 2021, 08:24:23 AM
Pre-ordered Famicom Detective Club while Spieler was bitching about Nintendo.

Feels good to be a Nintendo fan. :)

The biggest strength of PS4 was you didn't have to care about exclusives, because it simply had every relevant game of its time, mostly guaranteed day1. Monster Hunter World released also on Bone, but way late on PC. Nier on PC, but like a year late on Bone. Yakuza only 3 years later on Bone. Other variations of split releases for Nioh, Crash Bandicoot, etc. Get a PS4 and you didn't need to ever care about that. I was surprised browsing Amazon and seeing even games I thought were exclusive to PC or Switch or whatever actually being silent multiplats too. When MS showed many interesting games a few years ago at E3, it was like, thanks for the great PS4 lineup.

Other things were released PS4/Switch, PC/PS4, or in other combinations, but it almost always contained PS4 last gen if it wasn't 1st party. If you wanted to have last gen in a single library, you get a PS4.

Pretty sure we've had this discussion already- when I look back at the games I own or owned on PS4, the vast majority are all available on PS3, Vita, Xbox One, PC, and/or Switch.  I could have not owned a PS4 and played just about everything I would have wanted to.  The exceptions are pretty much the few Sony-published games I care about, like Uncharted.  Unsure if those games are on PS Now.  If they are, then that's irrelevant too.

The one single platform that has massively improved in terms of its library "competing" with other platforms is PC.  The last 10 years especially have seen things change quite a bit and now it's normal for console games to see PC releases.  "Exclusive" console games also come out on PC. 

In the end, I think ps4 might go down as most overrated system of all time.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: MMaRsu on April 07, 2021, 08:25:54 AM
Seriously, what exclusives besides Bloodborne? Persona 5? Uncharted 4? The only reason PS4 took off was because the Xbox used game fuck up. Remember that.

It ran games better than Xbone and that's about it. But most games were on other systems.

Looking forward to SaGa Frontier HD, which is coming out on ps4. Oh wait, I'm getting that on my Swtich.

The only reason people settled with ps4 was because the used game shit that turned the tide away from Xbone, which at the time was seen at the system projected to get. But most games on ps4 are on other platforms. The only reason we went with ps4 was because it was convenient. Console gaming is convenient.

Winning the goodwill back is difficult though. Sony is making it easy for Microsoft right now though, they are making sll the right moves (and I dont see a lot of stupid ones, if any)
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 07, 2021, 08:32:11 AM
Seriously, what exclusives besides Bloodborne? Persona 5? Uncharted 4? The only reason PS4 took off was because the Xbox used game fuck up. Remember that.

It ran games better than Xbone and that's about it. But most games were on other systems.

Looking forward to SaGa Frontier HD, which is coming out on ps4. Oh wait, I'm getting that on my Swtich.

The only reason people settled with ps4 was because the used game shit that turned the tide away from Xbone, which at the time was seen at the system projected to get. But most games on ps4 are on other platforms. The only reason we went with ps4 was because it was convenient. Console gaming is convenient.

Winning the goodwill back is difficult though. Sony is making it easy for Microsoft right now though, they are making sll the right moves (and I dont see a lot of stupid ones, if any)

Winning good will back can be hard, but not when the competition is throwing its good will in the trash.

Remember that Sony was going to put the used game tech in their system as well.

Sony's last good console, as far as offering unique games you can't find anywhere else, was ps3.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on April 07, 2021, 08:33:34 AM
Seriously, what exclusives besides Bloodborne? Persona 5? Uncharted 4? The only reason PS4 took off was because the Xbox used game fuck up. Remember that.

Can certainly say that the biggest reason I got a PS4 at launch was due to the awful shit Microsoft announced that they'd be "locking down" the Xbox One with.  None of this ended up happening, but at the time, it was enough to make me take most of my Xbox games, a console, and a Kinect (lol) and trade it in towards a PS4 pre-order.  Funnily enough, looking back at the two console launches, I would have gotten way more out of an Xbox One with Titanfall and Killer Instinct.

Console gaming is convenient.

This is another area where PC gaming has massively-improved over the past 10-15 years.  It's generally just as convenient now.

In the end, I think ps4 might go down as most overrated system of all time.

It used to be that there was a reason to own multiple platforms.  That slowly eroded away over the past gen IMO.  Maybe it will come back with Microsoft's developer acquisitions, but they seem to be OK with still letting these games come out on other platforms anyway so who knows.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 07, 2021, 08:38:07 AM
Yeah. Right now I'm going to get a ps5 because I never had a ps4 pro and I still haven't played some games from last gen.

These days if you heavy into of gaming there's only reason to get one console between PS/XB and the Nintendo system on the side. I don't see the benefit of the multi console thing we grew up on.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Rahxephon91 on April 07, 2021, 08:38:38 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:PlayStation_4-only_games (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:PlayStation_4-only_games)

Which of these are the amazing exclusives PS4 actually had? Exclusive wise all consoles have been pretty slim pickings the last generation.

13 Sentinels: Aegis Rim
Astro Bot Rescue Mission
Blood & Truth
Bloodborne
Driveclub
Fist of the North Star: Lost Paradise
Ghost of Tsushima
The Last of Us Part II
Infamous First Light
Gravity Rush 2
God of War
Uncharted 4: A Thief's End
Uncharted: The Lost Legacy
Until Dawn
Final Fantasy VII Remake
Sakura Wars
Persona 5
Spider-man
Horizon*
Odin Sphere: Leifthrasir

Yeah, these were all good to great games. Don't know what you are talking about.

PS4 overrated? Ps4 had more worthwhile exclusives than PS3 and gave me access to the majority of that generation's games.  There was nothing overrated about that. If your so high on PC gaming, I don't know why you care about consoles. I don't give a shit about PC gaming, so the PS4 was the best console to have.

Quote
Yes, because nobody else ever does this.  :brain
I mean Sony and Nintendo have seemingly built a first-party, unlike MS who just decided to buy Bethesda and several mediocre developers. I also don't remember going into this gen thinking Xbox was the system to get. What I remember was that Sony had gained a lot of momentum thanks to its first-party offerings. Meanwhile, Xbox had thrown out having a first-party, got on the Kinect train, and relied on Call of Duty deals to keep the system exciting. Even without the used game shennagians. You had the awful TV stuff E3 showing and the general lack of "hardcore gaming" focus.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 07, 2021, 08:47:44 AM
The funny thing about Sony is that unlike Microsoft they've got a vast catalog of riches to tap into and they're doing jack shit. They could easily revive Jet Moto, Mark of the Kri, modernize Parappa to take advantage of raps modern ubiquity, revive Jak or Sly for the kids.

They have so many options to make their system worth owning and unique. .

I think Sony treats its library, history, and legacy with less respect than Sega does theirs. It's truly pathetic lmao.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Svejk on April 07, 2021, 09:07:57 AM
Pre-ordered Famicom Detective Club while Spieler was bitching about Nintendo.

Feels good to be a Nintendo fan. :)

The biggest strength of PS4 was you didn't have to care about exclusives, because it simply had every relevant game of its time, mostly guaranteed day1. Monster Hunter World released also on Bone, but way late on PC. Nier on PC, but like a year late on Bone. Yakuza only 3 years later on Bone. Other variations of split releases for Nioh, Crash Bandicoot, etc. Get a PS4 and you didn't need to ever care about that. I was surprised browsing Amazon and seeing even games I thought were exclusive to PC or Switch or whatever actually being silent multiplats too. When MS showed many interesting games a few years ago at E3, it was like, thanks for the great PS4 lineup.

Other things were released PS4/Switch, PC/PS4, or in other combinations, but it almost always contained PS4 last gen if it wasn't 1st party. If you wanted to have last gen in a single library, you get a PS4.

Pretty sure we've had this discussion already- when I look back at the games I own or owned on PS4, the vast majority are all available on PS3, Vita, Xbox One, PC, and/or Switch.  I could have not owned a PS4 and played just about everything I would have wanted to.  The exceptions are pretty much the few Sony-published games I care about, like Uncharted.  Unsure if those games are on PS Now.  If they are, then that's irrelevant too.

The one single platform that has massively improved in terms of its library "competing" with other platforms is PC.  The last 10 years especially have seen things change quite a bit and now it's normal for console games to see PC releases.  "Exclusive" console games also come out on PC. 

In the end, I think ps4 might go down as most overrated system of all time.
I definitely see this as the Switch...  Mines only 4 weeks old and I can't bring myself to play it.  Overwhelmed by my PS collection already.

The biggest strength of PS4 was you didn't have to care about exclusives, because it simply had every relevant game of its time, mostly guaranteed day1. Monster Hunter World released also on Bone, but way late on PC. Nier on PC, but like a year late on Bone. Yakuza only 3 years later on Bone. Other variations of split releases for Nioh, Crash Bandicoot, etc. Get a PS4 and you didn't need to ever care about that. I was surprised browsing Amazon and seeing even games I thought were exclusive to PC or Switch or whatever actually being silent multiplats too. When MS showed many interesting games a few years ago at E3, it was like, thanks for the great PS4 lineup.

Other things were released PS4/Switch, PC/PS4, or in other combinations, but it almost always contained PS4 last gen if it wasn't 1st party. If you wanted to have last gen in a single library, you get a PS4.

Pretty sure we've had this discussion already- when I look back at the games I own or owned on PS4, the vast majority are all available on PS3, Vita, Xbox One, PC, and/or Switch.  I could have not owned a PS4 and played just about everything I would have wanted to.  The exceptions are pretty much the few Sony-published games I care about, like Uncharted.  Unsure if those games are on PS Now.  If they are, then that's irrelevant too.

The one single platform that has massively improved in terms of its library "competing" with other platforms is PC.  The last 10 years especially have seen things change quite a bit and now it's normal for console games to see PC releases.  "Exclusive" console games also come out on PC. 
Also see that as the Switch... it's an old port dumping ground.  With 9/10 of the time, being the inferior port.
With the GPD Win getting more and more awesome, not sure what the excitement for the Switch is... 
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: mormapope on April 07, 2021, 09:09:05 AM
The biggest strength of PS4 was you didn't have to care about exclusives, because it simply had every relevant game of its time, mostly guaranteed day1. Monster Hunter World released also on Bone, but way late on PC. Nier on PC, but like a year late on Bone. Yakuza only 3 years later on Bone. Other variations of split releases for Nioh, Crash Bandicoot, etc. Get a PS4 and you didn't need to ever care about that. I was surprised browsing Amazon and seeing even games I thought were exclusive to PC or Switch or whatever actually being silent multiplats too. When MS showed many interesting games a few years ago at E3, it was like, thanks for the great PS4 lineup.

Other things were released PS4/Switch, PC/PS4, or in other combinations, but it almost always contained PS4 last gen if it wasn't 1st party. If you wanted to have last gen in a single library, you get a PS4.

Pretty sure we've had this discussion already- when I look back at the games I own or owned on PS4, the vast majority are all available on PS3, Vita, Xbox One, PC, and/or Switch.  I could have not owned a PS4 and played just about everything I would have wanted to.  The exceptions are pretty much the few Sony-published games I care about, like Uncharted.  Unsure if those games are on PS Now.  If they are, then that's irrelevant too.

The one single platform that has massively improved in terms of its library "competing" with other platforms is PC.  The last 10 years especially have seen things change quite a bit and now it's normal for console games to see PC releases.  "Exclusive" console games also come out on PC.

Likewise, PC centric games have been coming out for consoles since last gen. PC as a platform still has the most exclusives (literally thousands of free or cheap indie games exist and get released all the time), but every platform has tons of games.

If you told people Planescape Torment and Sim strategy games will be coming out on a Nintendo console during the 360/Wii/PS3 generation, people would scoff at that and wouldn't believe it.

There's good reasons to own any platform.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 07, 2021, 09:09:56 AM
Play Mario Odyssey and BOTW first. Then play games like Tetris 99 and branch out. :)
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 07, 2021, 09:11:13 AM
The biggest strength of PS4 was you didn't have to care about exclusives, because it simply had every relevant game of its time, mostly guaranteed day1. Monster Hunter World released also on Bone, but way late on PC. Nier on PC, but like a year late on Bone. Yakuza only 3 years later on Bone. Other variations of split releases for Nioh, Crash Bandicoot, etc. Get a PS4 and you didn't need to ever care about that. I was surprised browsing Amazon and seeing even games I thought were exclusive to PC or Switch or whatever actually being silent multiplats too. When MS showed many interesting games a few years ago at E3, it was like, thanks for the great PS4 lineup.

Other things were released PS4/Switch, PC/PS4, or in other combinations, but it almost always contained PS4 last gen if it wasn't 1st party. If you wanted to have last gen in a single library, you get a PS4.

Pretty sure we've had this discussion already- when I look back at the games I own or owned on PS4, the vast majority are all available on PS3, Vita, Xbox One, PC, and/or Switch.  I could have not owned a PS4 and played just about everything I would have wanted to.  The exceptions are pretty much the few Sony-published games I care about, like Uncharted.  Unsure if those games are on PS Now.  If they are, then that's irrelevant too.

The one single platform that has massively improved in terms of its library "competing" with other platforms is PC.  The last 10 years especially have seen things change quite a bit and now it's normal for console games to see PC releases.  "Exclusive" console games also come out on PC.

Likewise, PC centric games have been coming out for consoles since last gen. PC as a platform still has the most exclusives (literally thousands of free or cheap indie games exist and get released all the time), but every platform has tons of games.

If you told people Planescape Torment and Sim strategy games will be coming out on a Nintendo console during the 360/Wii/PS3 generation, people would scoff at that and wouldn't believe it.

There's good reasons to own any platform.

Diablo 2 for consoles lmao. Looking forward to it!
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on April 07, 2021, 09:24:31 AM
Yeah. Right now I'm going to get a ps5 because I never had a ps4 pro and I still haven't played some games from last gen.

These days if you heavy into of gaming there's only reason to get one console between PS/XB and the Nintendo system on the side. I don't see the benefit of the multi console thing we grew up on.


And I don't think this a bad thing -it just means less money to spend to enjoy more games- but I also feel like there's less and less of a reason to buy dedicated consoles now.  Nintendo is the exception because the system is also a portable and I look at it very much as a replacement for the Vita with a lot of the games that have come to the platform since the Vita was killed off.

I'm not against buying a PS5 or anything, I just need some games to buy one for, and anything I have any interest in is releasing on other platforms.  Even some of their own games are still releasing on PS4. 

The funny thing about Sony is that unlike Microsoft they've got a vast catalog of riches to tap into and they're doing jack shit. They could easily revive Jet Moto, Mark of the Kri, modernize Parappa to take advantage of raps modern ubiquity, revive Jak or Sly for the kids.

They have so many options to make their system worth owning and unique. .

I think Sony treats its library, history, and legacy with less respect than Sega does theirs. It's truly pathetic lmao.

This.  So much this.  But that Sony is dead and now we've got Arrogant Sony 'Murica running the show. 
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on April 07, 2021, 09:25:47 AM
Pre-ordered Famicom Detective Club while Spieler was bitching about Nintendo.

Feels good to be a Nintendo fan. :)

The biggest strength of PS4 was you didn't have to care about exclusives, because it simply had every relevant game of its time, mostly guaranteed day1. Monster Hunter World released also on Bone, but way late on PC. Nier on PC, but like a year late on Bone. Yakuza only 3 years later on Bone. Other variations of split releases for Nioh, Crash Bandicoot, etc. Get a PS4 and you didn't need to ever care about that. I was surprised browsing Amazon and seeing even games I thought were exclusive to PC or Switch or whatever actually being silent multiplats too. When MS showed many interesting games a few years ago at E3, it was like, thanks for the great PS4 lineup.

Other things were released PS4/Switch, PC/PS4, or in other combinations, but it almost always contained PS4 last gen if it wasn't 1st party. If you wanted to have last gen in a single library, you get a PS4.

Pretty sure we've had this discussion already- when I look back at the games I own or owned on PS4, the vast majority are all available on PS3, Vita, Xbox One, PC, and/or Switch.  I could have not owned a PS4 and played just about everything I would have wanted to.  The exceptions are pretty much the few Sony-published games I care about, like Uncharted.  Unsure if those games are on PS Now.  If they are, then that's irrelevant too.

The one single platform that has massively improved in terms of its library "competing" with other platforms is PC.  The last 10 years especially have seen things change quite a bit and now it's normal for console games to see PC releases.  "Exclusive" console games also come out on PC. 

In the end, I think ps4 might go down as most overrated system of all time.
I definitely see this as the Switch...  Mines only 4 weeks old and I can't bring myself to play it.  Overwhelmed by my PS collection already.

The biggest strength of PS4 was you didn't have to care about exclusives, because it simply had every relevant game of its time, mostly guaranteed day1. Monster Hunter World released also on Bone, but way late on PC. Nier on PC, but like a year late on Bone. Yakuza only 3 years later on Bone. Other variations of split releases for Nioh, Crash Bandicoot, etc. Get a PS4 and you didn't need to ever care about that. I was surprised browsing Amazon and seeing even games I thought were exclusive to PC or Switch or whatever actually being silent multiplats too. When MS showed many interesting games a few years ago at E3, it was like, thanks for the great PS4 lineup.

Other things were released PS4/Switch, PC/PS4, or in other combinations, but it almost always contained PS4 last gen if it wasn't 1st party. If you wanted to have last gen in a single library, you get a PS4.

Pretty sure we've had this discussion already- when I look back at the games I own or owned on PS4, the vast majority are all available on PS3, Vita, Xbox One, PC, and/or Switch.  I could have not owned a PS4 and played just about everything I would have wanted to.  The exceptions are pretty much the few Sony-published games I care about, like Uncharted.  Unsure if those games are on PS Now.  If they are, then that's irrelevant too.

The one single platform that has massively improved in terms of its library "competing" with other platforms is PC.  The last 10 years especially have seen things change quite a bit and now it's normal for console games to see PC releases.  "Exclusive" console games also come out on PC. 
Also see that as the Switch... it's an old port dumping ground.  With 9/10 of the time, being the inferior port.
With the GPD Win getting more and more awesome, not sure what the excitement for the Switch is...

Your bias is almost as bad as Spieler's, though- you've been hating on that thing since it came out.   :P

GO PLAY ODYSSEY ALREADY.
:bolo
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on April 07, 2021, 09:26:56 AM
There's good reasons to own any platform.

Sure, but what I feel has changed is owning multiple platforms.  Doesn't seem like as big of a deal as it used to be.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Svejk on April 07, 2021, 09:31:29 AM
The funny thing about Sony is that unlike Microsoft they've got a vast catalog of riches to tap into and they're doing jack shit. They could easily revive Jet Moto, Mark of the Kri, modernize Parappa to take advantage of raps modern ubiquity, revive Jak or Sly for the kids.

They have so many options to make their system worth owning and unique. .

I think Sony treats its library, history, and legacy with less respect than Sega does theirs. It's truly pathetic lmao.
I'm gonna have to disagree.  Sega is distinguished mentally-challenged with their IPs... 

This is Sega's behavior...
(Reemer is Sega, Cain is the rest of the world...)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-4nVSV1LeU

And I say this as a Golden Age of Gaming Console War vet.  Sega or nothing else back then...  Granted, there's some hope with the likes of SOR4, but they have a long, LONG way to go to earn back my trust.  .. Remember Shenmue 3?  Sony hasn't flopped like that (yet).  Where's Skies??  Panzer Dragoon Saga??  Sega Rally??  OutRun?? After Burner?? VF?? Golden Axe?? Altered Beast??  A real Phantasy Star??  Shinobi??  A real, non-waifu Shining game??
Sony knows they have good things too...  Astro's Playroom gave me much hope to their legacy (granted it's just one little game, but it's that damn charming)...   And yes, I may be a bit on the Sony high horse, but I've been very happy with everything they've put out.  I wish I could say the same for Sega.

Your bias is almost as bad as Spieler's, though- you've been hating on that thing since it came out.   :P

GO PLAY ODYSSEY ALREADY.
:bolo
I will... But I'm gonna have to rearrange a sound setup for the entertainment area before I do.  I want to play it on my tv, but with headphones.. Switch doesn't allow it because whatever.
I've already dumped so much into that thing, not sure if I'm ready to dump into a receiver or some other sound alternative, whether it's bluetooth earbuds or what.  Just more damn hurdles and money for a convenience.  The Switch actually works against me in convenience. 
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 07, 2021, 09:37:19 AM
The problem, if there's any, and if you can consider it a "problem", is that because every system has a reason to own, almost none of them offer their own unique offerings. Besides Nintendo, it's essentially an aesthetic choice at this point or what system your friends get. Whether you consider that good or bad is subjective. I can see the pros and cons for both, for sure.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 07, 2021, 09:48:58 AM
The funny thing about Sony is that unlike Microsoft they've got a vast catalog of riches to tap into and they're doing jack shit. They could easily revive Jet Moto, Mark of the Kri, modernize Parappa to take advantage of raps modern ubiquity, revive Jak or Sly for the kids.

They have so many options to make their system worth owning and unique. .

I think Sony treats its library, history, and legacy with less respect than Sega does theirs. It's truly pathetic lmao.
I'm gonna have to disagree.  Sega is distinguished mentally-challenged with their IPs... 

This is Sega's behavior...
(Reemer is Sega, Cain is the rest of the world...)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-4nVSV1LeU

And I say this as a Golden Age of Gaming Console War vet.  Sega or nothing else back then...  Granted, there's some hope with the likes of SOR4, but they have a long, LONG way to go to earn back my trust.  .. Remember Shenmue 3?  Sony hasn't flopped like that (yet).  Where's Skies??  Panzer Dragoon Saga??  Sega Rally??  OutRun?? After Burner?? VF?? Golden Axe?? Altered Beast??  A real Phantasy Star??  Shinobi??  A real, non-waifu Shining game??
Sony knows they have good things too...  Astro's Playroom gave me much hope to their legacy (granted it's just one little game, but it's that damn charming)...   And yes, I may be a bit on the Sony high horse, but I've been very happy with everything they've put out.  I wish I could say the same for Sega.

Your bias is almost as bad as Spieler's, though- you've been hating on that thing since it came out.   :P

GO PLAY ODYSSEY ALREADY.
:bolo
I will... But I'm gonna have to rearrange a sound setup for the entertainment area before I do.  I want to play it on my tv, but with headphones.. Switch doesn't allow it because whatever.
I've already dumped so much into that thing, not sure if I'm ready to dump into a receiver or some other sound alternative, whether it's bluetooth earbuds or what.  Just more damn hurdles and money for a convenience.  The Switch actually works against me in convenience.

Sony is even worse, if that shocks you. Sega at least does things like Shinobi 3ds. Sega did amazing 3d versions of their classics like Outrun. They were among the best publishers for the 3ds virtual console. Playing Outrun in 3d was amazing. Sega is also immensely proud of their catalog. They've put Crazy Taxi on every system under the sun. Shenmue I and II got re-released. They've put Genesis and Dreamcast games on tons of systems. They're open with collaborating with fans and developers. See Sonic Mania or the new Alex Kids or Streets of Rage 4 for example. That's not to say they don't have blind spots, but they've done far more to preserve and celebrate their history than Sony has.

Where's Jumping Flash? Where's Legend of Dragoon? Where's Tomba? Where's Colony Wars? Where's Jet Moto? Where's Parappa, Umjammer Lammy, Intelligent Qube, Mark of the Kri, Echochrome? Loco Roco? Sony has its own VR and hasn't even made a Jumping Flash VR game. That's utterly ludicrous.

Sony is far worse regarding their history. Their treatment of their digital storefronts confirms that.

I said they're worse than Sega to accentuate how bad they are because historically Sega is very bad at this. To be even worse than Sega in this regard is a massive feather in Sony's cap.

I know you're high on PS, but as a Sony fan for nearly 25 years this is my personal assessment of them.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: tiesto on April 07, 2021, 09:55:07 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:PlayStation_4-only_games (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:PlayStation_4-only_games)

Which of these are the amazing exclusives PS4 actually had? Exclusive wise all consoles have been pretty slim pickings the last generation.

Edit:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Nintendo_Switch-only_games (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Nintendo_Switch-only_games)

Looks like the Switch that has no games had more exclusives so far than the PS4?

I like how the PS4-exclusive list has vaporware game Deep Down  :lol
To be fair, 13 Sentinels and Bloodborne are really good.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on April 07, 2021, 10:10:16 AM

I will... But I'm gonna have to rearrange a sound setup for the entertainment area before I do.  I want to play it on my tv, but with headphones.. Switch doesn't allow it because whatever.
I've already dumped so much into that thing, not sure if I'm ready to dump into a receiver or some other sound alternative, whether it's bluetooth earbuds or what.  Just more damn hurdles and money for a convenience.  The Switch actually works against me in convenience.

If it's bluetooth, you can get a cheap wireless dongle that you can plug in via USB.

This one includes a USB-A adapter for the dock.

https://www.amazon.com/HomeSpot-Bluetooth-Transmitter-Compatible-Headphones/dp/B07L9SL7ZT
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on April 07, 2021, 10:17:07 AM
Where's Jumping Flash? Where's Legend of Dragoon? Where's Tomba? Where's Colony Wars? Where's Jet Moto? Where's Parappa, Umjammer Lammy, Intelligent Qube, Mark of the Kri, Echochrome? Loco Roco? Sony has its own VR and hasn't even made a Jumping Flash VR game. That's utterly ludicrous.

Sony is far worse regarding their history. Their treatment of their digital storefronts confirms that.

They at least re-released Parappa and Loco Roco on PS4 (as actual remasters), but yeah, in general they've just ignored a good chunk of their back catalog, and it sucks.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Svejk on April 07, 2021, 11:18:33 AM
I know you're high on PS, but as a Sony fan for nearly 25 years this is my personal assessment of them.
Agree to disagree.  :)  This was me with Sega back in the day. The bias was impenetrable. I was anti-Nintendo everything.  Now, I'm on the other side of the wall.. Even though I have a deeply embedded ancient "hate" for Nintendo, I still love them for what they are and have pulled off...


I will... But I'm gonna have to rearrange a sound setup for the entertainment area before I do.  I want to play it on my tv, but with headphones.. Switch doesn't allow it because whatever.
I've already dumped so much into that thing, not sure if I'm ready to dump into a receiver or some other sound alternative, whether it's bluetooth earbuds or what.  Just more damn hurdles and money for a convenience.  The Switch actually works against me in convenience.

If it's bluetooth, you can get a cheap wireless dongle that you can plug in via USB.

This one includes a USB-A adapter for the dock.

https://www.amazon.com/HomeSpot-Bluetooth-Transmitter-Compatible-Headphones/dp/B07L9SL7ZT

Word.  I didn't think you could stream sound through one of the USB's, but it appears to do so now (after a recent update), so that might be my cheapest option.  I guess I need to drop even more money into this thing again.
 :existential
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: demi on April 07, 2021, 11:48:38 AM
cringe thread. take it to twitter
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Skullfuckers Anonymous on April 07, 2021, 11:52:05 AM
GTA 6 won’t be coming to Switch (or Switch Pro) so it loses the console wars by default.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: paprikastaude on April 07, 2021, 12:06:42 PM
The biggest strength of PS4 was you didn't have to care about exclusives, because it simply had every relevant game of its time, mostly guaranteed day1. Monster Hunter World released also on Bone, but way late on PC. Nier on PC, but like a year late on Bone. Yakuza only 3 years later on Bone. Other variations of split releases for Nioh, Crash Bandicoot, etc. Get a PS4 and you didn't need to ever care about that. I was surprised browsing Amazon and seeing even games I thought were exclusive to PC or Switch or whatever actually being silent multiplats too. When MS showed many interesting games a few years ago at E3, it was like, thanks for the great PS4 lineup.

Other things were released PS4/Switch, PC/PS4, or in other combinations, but it almost always contained PS4 last gen if it wasn't 1st party. If you wanted to have last gen in a single library, you get a PS4.

Pretty sure we've had this discussion already- when I look back at the games I own or owned on PS4, the vast majority are all available on PS3, Vita, Xbox One, PC, and/or Switch.  I could have not owned a PS4 and played just about everything I would have wanted to.  The exceptions are pretty much the few Sony-published games I care about, like Uncharted.  Unsure if those games are on PS Now.  If they are, then that's irrelevant too.

The one single platform that has massively improved in terms of its library "competing" with other platforms is PC.  The last 10 years especially have seen things change quite a bit and now it's normal for console games to see PC releases.  "Exclusive" console games also come out on PC.

PC is different altogether with its ridiculous hardware cost, no physical games, etc. I use Steam for games that are digital only, everything else I will buy on consoles. And for last generation, PS4 is the only console that basically had all games. XBone might miss two or three important titles from last gen one might find interesting, Switch the majority. If I want to play a notable 3rd party release (i.e. excluding whatever indies flood Steam with) released between 2013 and 2020, I don't even have to think about it, I can find it for PS4. The last generation is the PS4 - which was even more true when it was still going. Which is crazy, because in the first years it looked like a continuation of the incredibly dire PS360 days, so I kept playing PS3, until around 2015/16 when PS4 exploded.

For this gen, we'll see. If MS is aggressive about grabbing current Japanese hits to have them on Gamepass Day1, maybe they can "steal" that Sony audience that got into Persona, MH World, Nier, FF, etc. Right now, PS5 still seems like the non-PC option which gets you guaranteed timely major releases by FROM, Capcom, Square, Sega, etc., regardless of the sad shit Jim Ryan and his company's doing and saying currently. Though a clearer picture might have to wait until after the pandemic. One thing's for sure. As a fan of these games, I can't ignore the reality that Switch doesn't offer more than a side attraction for these games, so they don't seem like "stealing" anyone's audience. The only big thing that will get back to Nintendo imo is Dragon Quest, because that's one of the few Japanese series that didn't have a Western breakthrough with a fancy console release last gen.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: HardcoreRetro on April 07, 2021, 12:08:44 PM
GTA 6 won’t be coming to Switch (or Switch Pro) so it loses the console wars by default.

But first we get that amazing GTA5 remaster they teased. :D
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Raist on April 07, 2021, 12:18:03 PM
The only reason PS4 took off was because the Xbox used game fuck up. Remember that.

:lol
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: mormapope on April 07, 2021, 12:27:55 PM
The Xbox One and Wii-U being disasters helped Sony immensely. Just like the PS3 being a disaster helped the 360 and Wii. Shit, the original Playstation did so well in a way because the Saturn was a disaster, and the N64 using cartridges meant missing out on tons of games at that time.

This is the first gen in 20 years where Microsoft and Nintendo aren't shitting the bed in some way.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Human Snorenado on April 07, 2021, 12:39:22 PM
Seriously, what exclusives besides Bloodborne? Persona 5? Uncharted 4? The only reason PS4 took off was because the Xbox used game fuck up. Remember that.

It ran games better than Xbone and that's about it. But most games were on other systems.

Looking forward to SaGa Frontier HD, which is coming out on ps4. Oh wait, I'm getting that on my Swtich.

The only reason people settled with ps4 was because the used game shit that turned the tide away from Xbone, which at the time was seen at the system projected to get. But most games on ps4 are on other platforms. The only reason we went with ps4 was because it was convenient. Console gaming is convenient.

And the always online shit. And the $100 more shit. That E3 was nothing but MS shooting themselves in their own dick and Sony dunking on them. The fact that Xbox is still a thing afterwards is a minor miracle and probably only because MS has mountains of money.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on April 07, 2021, 01:05:01 PM
Seriously, what exclusives besides Bloodborne? Persona 5? Uncharted 4? The only reason PS4 took off was because the Xbox used game fuck up. Remember that.

It ran games better than Xbone and that's about it. But most games were on other systems.

Looking forward to SaGa Frontier HD, which is coming out on ps4. Oh wait, I'm getting that on my Swtich.

The only reason people settled with ps4 was because the used game shit that turned the tide away from Xbone, which at the time was seen at the system projected to get. But most games on ps4 are on other platforms. The only reason we went with ps4 was because it was convenient. Console gaming is convenient.

And the always online shit. And the $100 more shit. That E3 was nothing but MS shooting themselves in their own dick and Sony dunking on them. The fact that Xbox is still a thing afterwards is a minor miracle and probably only because MS has mountains of money.

If what some people have said about the Xbox Series is true, it was almost not going to happen and MS was ready to pull the plug on the division. 

But I think MS is heading in the right direction with Game Pass and XCloud.  It may be a while, but at some point none of this shit is going to matter because games are just going to be streamed anyway.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on April 07, 2021, 01:18:21 PM
PC is different altogether with its ridiculous hardware cost, no physical games, etc.

PC prices are all over the place.  You don't necessarily have to buy or put together a top of the line system to play everything, and it could be argued that the higher hardware costs are offset by the higher console game prices and yearly cost to play online. 

Quote
And for last generation, PS4 is the only console that basically had all games. XBone might miss two or three important titles from last gen one might find interesting, Switch the majority. If I want to play a notable 3rd party release (i.e. excluding whatever indies flood Steam with) released between 2013 and 2020, I don't even have to think about it, I can find it for PS4. The last generation is the PS4 - which was even more true when it was still going. Which is crazy, because in the first years it looked like a continuation of the incredibly dire PS360 days, so I kept playing PS3, until around 2015/16 when PS4 exploded.

I don't agree with you.  And I base that on looking at my library of PS4 games and seeing that the vast majority of them are on other platforms.  I think it's around 12 out of nearly 200+ titles, and I'm not sure how many of those 12 might be on PS Now.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: MMaRsu on April 07, 2021, 01:28:16 PM
cringe thread. take it to twitter

 :-\

Even with my positivity towards Game Pass I cant win Demi over
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on April 07, 2021, 01:31:40 PM
Also, props to Microsoft for what they're doing with backwards-compatibility. 
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 07, 2021, 01:41:56 PM
Seriously, what exclusives besides Bloodborne? Persona 5? Uncharted 4? The only reason PS4 took off was because the Xbox used game fuck up. Remember that.

It ran games better than Xbone and that's about it. But most games were on other systems.

Looking forward to SaGa Frontier HD, which is coming out on ps4. Oh wait, I'm getting that on my Swtich.

The only reason people settled with ps4 was because the used game shit that turned the tide away from Xbone, which at the time was seen at the system projected to get. But most games on ps4 are on other platforms. The only reason we went with ps4 was because it was convenient. Console gaming is convenient.

And the always online shit. And the $100 more shit. That E3 was nothing but MS shooting themselves in their own dick and Sony dunking on them. The fact that Xbox is still a thing afterwards is a minor miracle and probably only because MS has mountains of money.

Yes, but the used games thing was the biggest deal breaker, hence how Sony was allowed to dunk on them..

This video is what turned the tide of last gen.

https://youtu.be/kWSIFh8ICaA
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on April 07, 2021, 01:52:56 PM
Seriously, what exclusives besides Bloodborne? Persona 5? Uncharted 4? The only reason PS4 took off was because the Xbox used game fuck up. Remember that.

It ran games better than Xbone and that's about it. But most games were on other systems.

Looking forward to SaGa Frontier HD, which is coming out on ps4. Oh wait, I'm getting that on my Swtich.

The only reason people settled with ps4 was because the used game shit that turned the tide away from Xbone, which at the time was seen at the system projected to get. But most games on ps4 are on other platforms. The only reason we went with ps4 was because it was convenient. Console gaming is convenient.

And the always online shit. And the $100 more shit. That E3 was nothing but MS shooting themselves in their own dick and Sony dunking on them. The fact that Xbox is still a thing afterwards is a minor miracle and probably only because MS has mountains of money.

Yes, but the used games thing was the biggest deal breaker, hence how Sony was allowed to dunk on them..

This video is what turned the tide of last gen.

https://youtu.be/kWSIFh8ICaA

None of that ended up being the case, however, and I doubt the vast majority of consumers knew anything about that stuff from E3 that year.  Still was awesome.  I miss that Sony.   :'(

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Although this was also the same Sony who tried getting people to pay them ten bucks for an "online pass" if they purchased a used game.
[close]
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Tasty on April 07, 2021, 02:17:09 PM
GTA 6 won’t be coming to Switch (or Switch Pro) so it loses the console wars by default.

GTA 6 ain't ever coming out breh :dead

GTA 5 on Switch Pro though... and victory is complete :obama
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Let's Cyber on April 07, 2021, 02:24:36 PM
The Xbox One and Wii-U being disasters helped Sony immensely. Just like the PS3 being a disaster helped the 360 and Wii. Shit, the original Playstation did so well in a way because the Saturn was a disaster, and the N64 using cartridges meant missing out on tons of games at that time.

This is the first gen in 20 years where Microsoft and Nintendo aren't shitting the bed in some way.
Yeah, there is a lot of truth here. If anything, Wii and Switch sales are what modern Nintendo's baseline potential is when they aren't tripping on their own dick. MS fucked up by focusing on Kinect, w/ an underpowered console plus the dumb TV "entertainment hub" bullshit. The PS3 launch price + Cell was a disaster. All 3 companies paid for their mistakes during their respective down years.

Honestly, there is room for Ninty, Sony and MS to co-exist. We have 3 generations to prove it even when one or more of them are taking missteps. If you're a console gamer, you should want all 3 companies succeeding and this might be the first generation where that happens simultaneously.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Raist on April 07, 2021, 02:39:39 PM
Seriously, what exclusives besides Bloodborne? Persona 5? Uncharted 4? The only reason PS4 took off was because the Xbox used game fuck up. Remember that.

It ran games better than Xbone and that's about it. But most games were on other systems.

Looking forward to SaGa Frontier HD, which is coming out on ps4. Oh wait, I'm getting that on my Swtich.

The only reason people settled with ps4 was because the used game shit that turned the tide away from Xbone, which at the time was seen at the system projected to get. But most games on ps4 are on other platforms. The only reason we went with ps4 was because it was convenient. Console gaming is convenient.

And the always online shit. And the $100 more shit. That E3 was nothing but MS shooting themselves in their own dick and Sony dunking on them. The fact that Xbox is still a thing afterwards is a minor miracle and probably only because MS has mountains of money.

Yes, but the used games thing was the biggest deal breaker, hence how Sony was allowed to dunk on them..

This video is what turned the tide of last gen.

https://youtu.be/kWSIFh8ICaA

I think you're vastly overestimating the proportion of the market that was exposed to the memes and burns of that E3.

The reality is that they had a better console, at a lesser price, and Playstation has always been a juggernaut.
I mean they ended up selling basically as well as xbox during the PS360 era despite the one year (and more in EU) launch delay, absurd price, and 3rd parties having nightmares because no one bothered to ask Kutaragi to think twice about his approach.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 07, 2021, 03:37:00 PM
Overestimating? No. Also, memes apply to games. That's a strange argument considering the initial fall of Playstation was announcing ps3 for 599 US dollars. PS became a joke overnight. Wii60.com was made within hours of that announcement. Memes play a massive role. Also, as said before, the rumor was that BOTH ps4 and Xbone would have anti consumer practices including always online system and no used games. The reason that took off was because it killed the rumor. Scuttlebutt says Sony was going to do the same thing as MS, saw the horrible backlash to Xbone at Monday on E3, and decided to walk back the system for PR.

Memes matter a lot when it comes to games. You're talking about gamers. The people that use PR words like IP, unit, SKU, Quality of Life;etc. Gamers are all about shared cultural consciousness.

https://youtu.be/ExaAYIKsDBI

That video I linked single handedly won Sony the console war of last gen. You are underestimating the effect of watching something like that live.

Talking of power is silly when it comes to games and what's popular. Power is nice, but the underpowered system is often traditionally the most dominant. In fact, I think the ps4 is unique in that it's the first console I can think of that won the console war and was actually the more powerful console.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: naff on April 07, 2021, 06:44:58 PM
ps4 "won" because xbone had no games and their marketing failed. ps actually had software in the works, though both were dire for the first year or so. to say it single handedly won because of that video... comeon. the vast majority of people (including myself) didn't even see that. not saying it didn't have any impact, but the predominant reason ps is so popular is its first party IP popularity with casuals and core alike. that was fairly well staggered into the middle to current lifetime of the console.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on April 07, 2021, 08:19:27 PM
The OG Xbox One was one of the most dissapointing consoles for me and it followed right after the Wii U (which I actually enjoyed more at the time  :doge ).

All the TV features were undercooked/unavailable. I remember buying the Xbox One with Destiny and the only 2 games that excited me during that time were Quantum Break and Forza Horizon 2.
The hardware also completely sucked apart from the controller, especially the very slow UI. New entries in their long running series like Gears of War were very uninspired and more interesting IP's like Ninja Gaiden had dissapeared.
Xbox was a complete loss between 2012 and 2017 if you also owned a PC and PS4 was better in nearly every way.

Xbox One X is one of my favorite consoles though it fixed everything that sucked about the original console and is a great and at the time fairly cheap 4k blu-ray player.


Talking about the console wars, sounds like Kojima is going to sign with Microsoft for his next game.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: naff on April 07, 2021, 08:53:55 PM
The OG Xbox One was one of the most dissapointing consoles for me and it followed right after the Wii U (which I actually enjoyed more at the time  :doge ).

All the TV features were undercooked/unavailable. I remember buying the Xbox One with Destiny and the only 2 games that excited me during that time were Quantum Break and Forza Horizon 2.
The hardware also completely sucked apart from the controller, especially the very slow UI. New entries in their long running series like Gears of War were very uninspired and more interesting IP's like Ninja Gaiden had dissapeared.
Xbox was a complete loss between 2012 and 2017 if you also owned a PC and PS4 was better in nearly every way.

Xbox One X is one of my favorite consoles though it fixed everything that sucked about the original console and is a great and at the time fairly cheap 4k blu-ray player.


Talking about the console wars, sounds like Kojima is going to sign with Microsoft for his next game.

lmao, there have been rumours about ms acquiring kojima studios for ages and they're as yet unfounded. are you just going off this dumb tweet?

https://twitter.com/Wario64/status/1364259070094446595

 :heh :neogaf

Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: naff on April 07, 2021, 09:25:11 PM
The Xbox One and Wii-U being disasters helped Sony immensely. Just like the PS3 being a disaster helped the 360 and Wii. Shit, the original Playstation did so well in a way because the Saturn was a disaster, and the N64 using cartridges meant missing out on tons of games at that time.

This is the first gen in 20 years where Microsoft and Nintendo aren't shitting the bed in some way.
Yeah, there is a lot of truth here. If anything, Wii and Switch sales are what modern Nintendo's baseline potential is when they aren't tripping on their own dick. MS fucked up by focusing on Kinect, w/ an underpowered console plus the dumb TV "entertainment hub" bullshit. The PS3 launch price + Cell was a disaster. All 3 companies paid for their mistakes during their respective down years.

Honestly, there is room for Ninty, Sony and MS to co-exist. We have 3 generations to prove it even when one or more of them are taking missteps. If you're a console gamer, you should want all 3 companies succeeding and this might be the first generation where that happens simultaneously.

ms and sony as hardware makers have never been more redundant. sony brings marginally more new to the table and are pushing vr at least, but the 2 consoles are so incredibly similar internally as a consumer there's no point for both existing
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: benjipwns on April 08, 2021, 12:38:36 AM
The only reason PS4 took off was because the Xbox used game fuck up. Remember that. ...

The only reason people settled with ps4 was because the used game shit that turned the tide away from Xbone, which at the time was seen at the system projected to get. But most games on ps4 are on other platforms. The only reason we went with ps4 was because it was convenient. Console gaming is convenient.
That video I linked single handedly won Sony the console war of last gen. You are underestimating the effect of watching something like that live.
I'm going to suggest that the lower price (and as importantly being under $400) had more to do with it than a game sharing "meme" video. Especially considering how fast Microsoft moved to murder the Kinect in order to get their price competitive.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Same way they killed the Saturn early on the last time two major consoles released together into the same market targets, cheaper, better and more games... :doge
[close]
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: MMaRsu on April 08, 2021, 02:25:32 AM
GTA 6 won’t be coming to Switch (or Switch Pro) so it loses the console wars by default.



GTA 6 ain't ever coming out breh :dead

GTA 5 on Switch Pro though... and victory is complete :obama

Sure it is, launches next year.in may trust.me bro
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: BIONIC on April 08, 2021, 02:37:13 AM
GTA 6 won’t be coming to Switch (or Switch Pro) so it loses the console wars by default.



GTA 6 ain't ever coming out breh :dead

GTA 5 on Switch Pro though... and victory is complete :obama

Sure it is, launches next year.in may trust.me bro

There’s only one Dutch gaming insider on this board, and he ain’t you  :ufup
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: MMaRsu on April 08, 2021, 02:37:14 AM
The only reason PS4 took off was because the Xbox used game fuck up. Remember that. ...

The only reason people settled with ps4 was because the used game shit that turned the tide away from Xbone, which at the time was seen at the system projected to get. But most games on ps4 are on other platforms. The only reason we went with ps4 was because it was convenient. Console gaming is convenient.
That video I linked single handedly won Sony the console war of last gen. You are underestimating the effect of watching something like that live.
I'm going to suggest that the lower price (and as importantly being under $400) had more to do with it than a game sharing "meme" video. Especially considering how fast Microsoft moved to murder the Kinect in order to get their price competitive.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Same way they killed the Saturn early on the last time two major consoles released together into the same market targets, cheaper, better and more games... :doge
[close]

The word of mouth that u couldnt play second hand games on xbox permeated quite a bit tho, even after they reversed that
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on April 08, 2021, 07:16:25 AM
The OG Xbox One was one of the most dissapointing consoles for me and it followed right after the Wii U (which I actually enjoyed more at the time  :doge ).

All the TV features were undercooked/unavailable. I remember buying the Xbox One with Destiny and the only 2 games that excited me during that time were Quantum Break and Forza Horizon 2.
The hardware also completely sucked apart from the controller, especially the very slow UI. New entries in their long running series like Gears of War were very uninspired and more interesting IP's like Ninja Gaiden had dissapeared.
Xbox was a complete loss between 2012 and 2017 if you also owned a PC and PS4 was better in nearly every way.

Xbox One X is one of my favorite consoles though it fixed everything that sucked about the original console and is a great and at the time fairly cheap 4k blu-ray player.


Talking about the console wars, sounds like Kojima is going to sign with Microsoft for his next game.

lmao, there have been rumours about ms acquiring kojima studios for ages and they're as yet unfounded. are you just going off this dumb tweet?

https://twitter.com/Wario64/status/1364259070094446595

 :heh :neogaf

What about the Switch on the top shelf?   :o
 :tinfoil

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Microsoft has Minecraft on Switch and Death Stranding came out for a Microsoft Platform- PC.  Or maybe Phil just likes all this shit? 
 :whatsthedeal
[close]
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Svejk on April 08, 2021, 07:30:30 AM
The OG Xbox One was one of the most dissapointing consoles for me and it followed right after the Wii U (which I actually enjoyed more at the time  :doge ).

All the TV features were undercooked/unavailable. I remember buying the Xbox One with Destiny and the only 2 games that excited me during that time were Quantum Break and Forza Horizon 2.
The hardware also completely sucked apart from the controller, especially the very slow UI. New entries in their long running series like Gears of War were very uninspired and more interesting IP's like Ninja Gaiden had dissapeared.
Xbox was a complete loss between 2012 and 2017 if you also owned a PC and PS4 was better in nearly every way.

Xbox One X is one of my favorite consoles though it fixed everything that sucked about the original console and is a great and at the time fairly cheap 4k blu-ray player.


Talking about the console wars, sounds like Kojima is going to sign with Microsoft for his next game.

lmao, there have been rumours about ms acquiring kojima studios for ages and they're as yet unfounded. are you just going off this dumb tweet?

https://twitter.com/Wario64/status/1364259070094446595

 :heh :neogaf

What about the Switch on the top shelf?   :o
 :tinfoil

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Microsoft has Minecraft on Switch and Death Stranding came out for a Microsoft Platform- PC.  Or maybe Phil just likes all this shit? 
 :whatsthedeal
[close]
And that skull behind his head!!?!
spoiler (click to show/hide)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZKiMu4QUfY
[close]
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 08, 2021, 10:38:18 AM
Honestly I forgot the price points. It's been too long.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Pissy F Benny on April 08, 2021, 11:02:27 AM
I'd totally forgotten about kinect being a big part of the boner at launch :heh

by the time i got one on the cheap a year or so after release it wasn't part of the package :trumps
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Joe Molotov on April 08, 2021, 11:43:13 AM
I'd totally forgotten about kinect being a big part of the boner at launch :heh

by the time i got one on the cheap a year or so after release it wasn't part of the package :trumps

Allegedly they couldn't release the Xbone without the Kinect because it was so integral to the Xbone Xperience, which involved a lot of movie and tv watching. :lol
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Pissy F Benny on April 08, 2021, 11:49:48 AM
the whole tv integration thing was fucking stupid and probably cost them as much as anything early on in the rest of the world imo, it was clear that it was completely irrelevant to anyone living outside the US :usacry

spoiler (click to show/hide)
and even then it was at a time when the kind of people they were targeting in america were starting to cut cable anyway so it was a waste of time :neogaf
[close]
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: mormapope on April 08, 2021, 12:56:57 PM
Kinect was dog shit since 2010. Chasing Wii money was a short term strategy that worked financially for a couple of years, but it was terrible and was always gonna be terrible.

Microsoft getting a reputation for killing studios or mismanaging everything was because of Kinect and Don Mattock/other leadership at that time.

"You know how your team would make traditional console games? We want you to take a look at Wii Sports Resort and Wii bowling, and make games like that."

"How are we supposed to make Fable into Wii Sports?"

"Copy that boxing and Tennis portion, casual audiences love that shit."
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on April 08, 2021, 12:59:26 PM
The OG Xbox One was one of the most dissapointing consoles for me and it followed right after the Wii U (which I actually enjoyed more at the time  :doge ).

All the TV features were undercooked/unavailable. I remember buying the Xbox One with Destiny and the only 2 games that excited me during that time were Quantum Break and Forza Horizon 2.
The hardware also completely sucked apart from the controller, especially the very slow UI. New entries in their long running series like Gears of War were very uninspired and more interesting IP's like Ninja Gaiden had dissapeared.
Xbox was a complete loss between 2012 and 2017 if you also owned a PC and PS4 was better in nearly every way.

Xbox One X is one of my favorite consoles though it fixed everything that sucked about the original console and is a great and at the time fairly cheap 4k blu-ray player.


Talking about the console wars, sounds like Kojima is going to sign with Microsoft for his next game.

lmao, there have been rumours about ms acquiring kojima studios for ages and they're as yet unfounded. are you just going off this dumb tweet?

https://twitter.com/Wario64/status/1364259070094446595

 :heh :neogaf
No, the source is Jeff Grubb

https://twitter.com/JeffGrubb/status/1379947495338377217 (https://twitter.com/JeffGrubb/status/1379947495338377217)
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: benjipwns on April 09, 2021, 12:03:08 AM
I'd totally forgotten about kinect being a big part of the boner at launch :heh

by the time i got one on the cheap a year or so after release it wasn't part of the package :trumps

Allegedly they couldn't release the Xbone without the Kinect because it was so integral to the Xbone Xperience, which involved a lot of movie and tv watching. :lol
"How many times have you been watching an episode of South Park and thought, I'd like to be able to watch this on my television while hooked into my mobile device, which is being controlled by my tablet device which is hooked into my oven, all while sitting in the refrigerator?" - Trey Parker, E3 2012 (https://youtu.be/CVzzwUGiK9E?t=115).
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on April 09, 2021, 04:49:31 AM
Xbox Smartglass

What does it do?

It enhances the experience

How?

By using Xbox Smartglass
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Pissy F Benny on April 09, 2021, 05:27:40 AM
i forgot about that second screen experience horse shit that died off after a year or so too :lol
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on April 09, 2021, 05:52:23 AM
(http://www.nuclearsalad.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/forzasmartglass.jpg)

(https://the-en.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/xbox-smartglass-8.jpg)

I think it was an attempt to have smart TV features on non-smart TV's and copy what Nintendo was doing with 2-screen gameplay.
Also there was the fear that mobile (gaming) would take over everything so they had to tie into that some way.

Yet what Microsoft never seemed to understand is that on Wii U you had to use your Pro Controller or your GamePad, not both at the same time. :doge
Plus you're not going to read shit on your iPad while you're watching a movie or TV show.
They also apparently didn't realize the idea was the exact opposite of their 'all in one' entertainment solution.

This is why you should never believe all those elaborate rumors about why game publishers are doing things.
The Smartglass/Wii U era was the result of executives believing Pachter and all who claimed mobile gaming would make consoles redundant and there was only room for Wii-like casual games.
Singleplayer games were dead. And 6 years after Witcher 3 and a bunch of games showed otherwise EA now has to rush a Mass Effect remaster to market to stay relevant.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 09, 2021, 07:49:49 AM
Fuck Sony.

https://twitter.com/jasonschreier/status/1380476925811032065
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Pissy F Benny on April 09, 2021, 08:05:27 AM
We're remaking 7 year old games now? :info
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on April 09, 2021, 09:01:26 AM
We're remaking 7 year old games now? :info
This is what happens when you put the guy who produced Killzone in charge of your first party studios.

I think that it will be highly succesful though. That's usually what happens when Hermen fucks people over.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Pissy F Benny on April 09, 2021, 09:26:30 AM
its even above hollywood levels of creatively bankrupt that they're remaking the last of us already :doge

i know they remade dark souls and that was fine, but this feels different somehow :trumps
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Svejk on April 09, 2021, 09:41:18 AM
Even though I'm on a Serny high horse of late, I hope TLOUR gets cancelled or "misses expectations".  It's pretty much all narrative and 2% gameplay..  What's there to play through once you know that part of the story? ???
Souls remakes on the other hand?  Those are 100% replayable.  They can remake those to the end of time and people will play them.  Of all the Sony 1st party studios, ND is by far the most overrated... Especially Neil. 
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Tasty on April 09, 2021, 09:46:35 AM
https://twitter.com/MikeMayoral/status/1380158612937510914

:lol So glad I left Twitter.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Skullfuckers Anonymous on April 09, 2021, 11:12:54 AM
Fuck Sony.

https://twitter.com/jasonschreier/status/1380476925811032065

No way will having all your exclusives be the same genre (dad simulators) backfire.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Rahxephon91 on April 09, 2021, 11:20:02 AM
A Last of US remake sounds pretty lame and unesccary.

But all this doom and gloom over Playstation is getting annoying.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 09, 2021, 11:43:29 AM
Fuck Sony.

https://twitter.com/jasonschreier/status/1380476925811032065

No way will having all your exclusives be the same genre (dad simulators) backfire.

The way people on Twitter are defending it because "safe makes the most sense" is :sabu
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 09, 2021, 11:46:50 AM
Decided to wait on next gen and just get ps4 pro instead.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 09, 2021, 11:58:35 AM
A Last of US remake sounds pretty lame and unesccary.

But all this doom and gloom over Playstation is getting annoying.

Some PlayStation fan you are.

https://twitter.com/JonComms/status/1380482854291922948
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Tasty on April 09, 2021, 12:02:24 PM
GTA 6 won’t be coming to Switch (or Switch Pro) so it loses the console wars by default.



GTA 6 ain't ever coming out breh :dead

GTA 5 on Switch Pro though... and victory is complete :obama

Sure it is, launches next year.in may trust.me bro

:hitler

(https://i.imgur.com/dJA7AIZ.gif)
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Tasty on April 09, 2021, 12:05:08 PM
https://twitter.com/mosephicles/status/1380216632862212104

https://twitter.com/maddd1ZZ3/status/1380319344198967301



The "coming" console war? Best start believing you're already in one.

(https://i.imgur.com/rq4evu0.gif)
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Rahxephon91 on April 09, 2021, 12:08:22 PM
A Last of US remake sounds pretty lame and unesccary.

But all this doom and gloom over Playstation is getting annoying.

Some PlayStation fan you are.

https://twitter.com/JonComms/status/1380482854291922948
I don’t care.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Pissy F Benny on April 09, 2021, 12:21:50 PM
if you take the long view it could lead to a talent drain in a few years, if a studio pitches something new and sony bosses are all like "oh you silly little bastards, you will make the last of us two remake and that's that :trumps"
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: mormapope on April 09, 2021, 12:22:15 PM
A Last of US remake sounds pretty lame and unesccary.

But all this doom and gloom over Playstation is getting annoying.

Welcome to Xbox circa 2013-2021, or Nintendo 2012-2017. Or better yet, Xbox 2001-2005 and Nintendo 2001-2006.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Svejk on April 09, 2021, 12:24:34 PM
Clap Handz Golf looks like Mobile trash now anyway.  :doge

The real finger pointing should be at MS... Just like those tweets point out, do people not see the global issue of them just buying up shit in true Bill Gates fashion? (Fuck that eugenics piece of shit anyways) I find that WAY more concerning than certain developers leave a studio to go elsewhere or to start their own.  Guy who started Team Ico through Sony... still making similar games and still will plop them on Sony systems for now.  Kojima left Metal Gear (Konami), but who cares?  They have freedom to leave and go where they seem fit (or where the skrilla's at).  Gravity Rush dev... I bet he'll start his own thing and most likely still make a game to put on a PS5.  Why?  Because the user base is insane.. Just like Switch. 
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Pissy F Benny on April 09, 2021, 12:25:56 PM
Microsoft can buy up everything for all i care as long as they continue to let me play it all for a single £11.99 monthly payment :trumps
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 09, 2021, 12:29:49 PM
https://twitter.com/dark1x/status/1380488123520581639
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on April 09, 2021, 01:29:27 PM
Don't worry Soyny fans, Microsoft will overhaul their strategy within the next 3 years and shutter half the studios they already bought to focus on...
I dunno, maybe Microsoft Teams Gaming or some shit.  :lol

Meanwhile Nintendo releases Super NintendoLand and Kirby Air Ride: DX and sells 60 million copies :trumps


Everyone seems to neglect the gut punch that is about to be delivered.
Epic Games will delay Unreal Engine 5.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Svejk on April 09, 2021, 01:36:18 PM
Speaking of gut punch, supposedly GoW dev is claiming that Sony is set to deliver a "counter punch" to Game Pass. :thinking  Are they gonna merge PS+ and PS Now into one thing or something?
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Rahxephon91 on April 09, 2021, 01:56:36 PM
Quote
Meanwhile Nintendo releases Super NintendoLand and Kirby Air Ride: DX and sells 60 million copies
With both being available   for a limited time for some reason.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on April 09, 2021, 02:22:51 PM
Quote
Meanwhile Nintendo releases Super NintendoLand and Kirby Air Ride: DX and sells 60 million copies
With both being available   for a limited time for some reason.
For a limited time, with the physical version of the second one only in Japan and half the content of the first one locked behind Amiibo :trumps
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: headwalk on April 09, 2021, 03:08:30 PM
sony wants playstation to be the HBO of gaming, but has a strange lack of confidence in the idiosyncracies of the medium. even the new housemarque arcade shooter is only allowed to exist on the condition that they wrap it in po-faced cinematic wankery.

they keep having hits though. i thought the new god of war was almost a parody of what would happen if modern sony did a modern sony on a god of war game, but people lapped it up.

Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: MMaRsu on April 09, 2021, 03:09:24 PM
I think from the moment Phil has taken charge of Xbox, things have been heading in the right direction.

It's taking them some time to steer the ship straight again, but Xbox is coming back I believe. Sony is fucking up in a lot of directions.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on April 09, 2021, 04:30:13 PM
Xbox has been 'coming back' since 2009(?)

I don't think Xbox will ever 'come back'. Every generation they start a bunch of projects, release a couple CG trailers and buy/create new studios.
And every time only 1 or 2 of those things survives the corporate meatgrinder and is actually published or not mediocre.

Now just by the sheer quantity of studios and acquisitions they will have more content(TM) than they used to but I'm just not seeing the likes of Double Fine, Arkane and MOON Studios making it through the generation when they have things like Gears of War, Fallout and DOOM. Perfect/Velvet Dark Core/2 has been on and off in development for close to 20(?) years by now and after 5 studios have tried they've finally released the first CG trailer of a game that once was a spin-off set in the Perfect Dark universe.

The infinite money won't stay. At some point Microsoft will hit a snag or recession and has to cut again like they did around 2009, it's a just a matter of time and then all the promises will fade away.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Tasty on April 09, 2021, 05:13:10 PM
Some PlayStation fan you are.

twitter.com/JonComms/status/1380482854291922948

I don’t care.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sV6Mefp7Djw
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on April 10, 2021, 01:03:39 AM
https://www.reddit.com/r/vita/comments/mmrz7p/i_am_a_former_sony_employee_ama/

Quote from: Formersonydude
Killing the Vita has been in the cards since 2016 or 2017. I'd wager that both the store shutdown and nixing the sales ability are steps to get people off the platform, just as the cessation of manufacturing carts/consoles.

Sony views the Vita as a failure. It missed pretty much every sales target they had and for a for-profit business that's about as bad as it gets. They were content with it as a small stream of passive income, but when the firmware was broken they were nailing the coffin.

It had some strong proponents internally, especially on the JP side, but that just served as a "told you so" in the culture wars Sony's been not-so-quietly having for the past decade.


Quote from: Gl0wsquid
Is it possible for you to elaborate on said culture wars?


Quote from: formersonydude
There's a lot to it, some I'm going to simplify it at the cost of some nuance.

Playstation is a historically Japanese brand. In the time since Playstation debuted, America has grown to be the largest video game market. There's been a lot of internal competition for the "control" of the Playstation brand and over the past several years you can clearly see where America has been winning. Relocation of HQ, shutdown of most of Japan Studios, and the DualSense's X default confirm (as a final "fuck you") are some of the notable examples off the top of my head.

Most of this took place far above my level - think officers and the like.

So Sony today is kind of like Sega was in the early 90s with the Genesis?
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Rahxephon91 on April 10, 2021, 03:06:16 AM
I don't share a lot of the opinions that some of the boreans have towards the PLaystation brand. While the PS2 is for sure the most impactful system to me, it was because of third-party support. Things like FFX, DMC, Onimusha, Tekken, and so on. Those are the games that made the system. Strong high-quality Japanese games and the occasional western game. I think God of War and Shadow were the main Sony internal games I enjoyed. It wasn't until PS3 that I felt the first party became strong, because well it had to as 3rd party exclusives were going away. To me, that was one of the agreed narratives of the PS3/360 gen. That said it's pretty undeniable that Sony first party had a lot more variety back then, at least on the PS2. I mean Wild Arms 5 is one of the most underrated JRPGS of that gen.

So I don't bemoan the focus on AAA cinematic games because I've liked most of them. I don't think any of them are the best games ever, but I feel there's a bit unfair shade thrown at them here. They aren't just all sad dad stuff. I also understand that the reality of modern HD development means less games in general.

I do think a narrow focus on these games is wrong. To me Playstation has been the home of variety and cool. Games with an edge and sometimes out-there weirdness. Something they seem to be lacking and will continue to if they focus on being the HBO of games. I'm not sure why you don't refocus Japan Studio on smaller scale Japanese games with more appeal. Not every game would have to be a graphic juggernaut like TLOU2. Lean into strong art direction and stylistic choices that Japanese games employ and crank of a jrpg or two, an action game in between the blockbusters. Sorry, maybe Tokyo Jungle wasn't for everyone, but a decent looking Wild Arms made with a modest budget would maybe do well in an era were JRPGS can sell 2million.

And quite honestly gaming trends can change, especially with a new generation. Who knows if super mature HBO game dramas are going to be in vogue.

I don't know what is going on with Playsation. Obviously, they are a company and profit is what matters most, but they are also platform holders and that sometimes should mean making games that won't sell millions, but will keep your audience diversified. I mean Sony kept TLOU alive not for profit, but for the kudos of releasing an artsy game.

Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: headwalk on April 10, 2021, 06:03:28 AM
So Sony today is kind of like Sega was in the early 90s with the Genesis?

seems to me that what people have enjoyed about sony in generations past has actually been the product of a internal culture war between west and east. it's a war the west has been winning and moving the HQ to california and appointing someone with such seeming disinterest in japanese titles feels like the coup d'etat. there are likely many in the upper echelons of sony's management who have been fighting this cultural tug-of-war for decades now and are unlikely to shed a tear for their neutered japanese opposition as they assert their vision for the future through developer pogroms.

internal corporate politics can rage with a fire that makes even the most autistic console war pissfight look amicable.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on April 10, 2021, 06:24:40 AM
 :sicko Do create your own studio and piss away $300 million so I can stomp on it in the next board meeting
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Let's Cyber on April 10, 2021, 11:56:42 AM
I think from the moment Phil has taken charge of Xbox, things have been heading in the right direction.

It's taking them some time to steer the ship straight again, but Xbox is coming back I believe. Sony is fucking up in a lot of directions.
Phil has been head of Xbox for 7 years.  He was lead of Xbox Game Studios for many years before that. He's been with the company since the 80s.

For comparison, Peter Moore was only with MS for 3 and a half.

I'm not arguing Xbox isn't in a much better place than it was in 2014 (it is), but this like "up and coming" Phil needs time to fix all of Mattrick's fuck ups narritive...like, how long does it take? Modern Xbox is Spencer's baby, both the good and bad.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: MMaRsu on April 10, 2021, 01:03:03 PM
I think they still had issues with development during the Xbox One times. They started on some projects that didn't make the cut and had to restart development with a few studios. Also the failing Xbox One sales might have been enough to make them say fuck it, push on for Series X.

Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Tasty on April 10, 2021, 01:19:07 PM
Scalebound :'(
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: mormapope on April 10, 2021, 01:55:20 PM
I think they still had issues with development during the Xbox One times. They started on some projects that didn't make the cut and had to restart development with a few studios. Also the failing Xbox One sales might have been enough to make them say fuck it, push on for Series X.

It was also the huge shift or pivot from Kinect and TV stuff(lol) to what Microsoft was great at in the past regarding consoles. Online infrastructure, services, software stuff on the backend in general.

Xbox Live Gold or paying for online is bullshit, but the OG Xbox and 360 especially were strong regarding online features in general. Game Pass as a service is a logical step forward. Unifying a platform as a whole is a step forward.

A lot of people not in the spotlight like Spencer deserve credit, just as the people that pushed hard for Kinect and bullshit deserve criticism.

I think from the moment Phil has taken charge of Xbox, things have been heading in the right direction.

It's taking them some time to steer the ship straight again, but Xbox is coming back I believe. Sony is fucking up in a lot of directions.
Phil has been head of Xbox for 7 years.  He was lead of Xbox Game Studios for many years before that. He's been with the company since the 80s.

For comparison, Peter Moore was only with MS for 3 and a half.

I'm not arguing Xbox isn't in a much better place than it was in 2014 (it is), but this like "up and coming" Phil needs time to fix all of Mattrick's fuck ups narritive...like, how long does it take? Modern Xbox is Spencer's baby, both the good and bad.

Keep in mind for the 360 generation, that leadership as a whole was okay selling a console that would experience critical hardware failure at a consistent and terrible rate. There was no way the RROD came as a surprise.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on April 10, 2021, 02:52:12 PM
For me the big risk with Xbox is that since Moore left it has always been a 'vessel' to promote something else.
Either Kinect, TV, Mixer, Smartglass, UWP or whatever.

Currently the big thing is cloud gaming, starting with GamePass and moving onto Streaming. Trying to become the Netflix of gaming.
They deserve credit for subsidizing the market like this (just like Epic has sunk half a billion into EGS) But if that doesn't pan out, then what?

Take Minecraft. It was this massive thing, then Microsoft came in and it is starting to slide. Roblox is the bigger game now because it has a big social aspect that Minecraft lacks.

Also they've not been able to build a team around Spencer. The leadership and creative minds of most of the studios they acquired over the years left the company. Will the people who headed up the revival of DOOM stay at Bethesda?
They're at a point that they need to bring in Joe Staten to help fix Halo: Infinite. After a diverse(TM) and inclusive(R) team has taken a crack at it and couldn't deliver after wasting $200 million and 5+ years of development.
It is not that Microsoft didn't try, In the past they tried to set-up teams around the likes of Ken Tsunoda, Rod Fergusson ​and even Peter Molyneux. They admitted that those efforts didn't work out and thus they would expand instead.
I'm seeing them buying studios left and right but I'm not seeing anyone at the company who can keep that ship in a straight line and keep folks like Tim Schafer and Todd Howard either happy or in line.
So either it turns out like Embracer, when the studios are 'owned' by Microsoft on paper but run indepedently and mostly do their own thing or it ends up in rivalry and infighting on who gets to be in control.

I feel that this is an aspect that the people who thought they owned Donkey Kong when they bought Rare have overlooked and why some studios are reluctant to sell to Microsoft.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: MMaRsu on April 10, 2021, 03:07:03 PM
Minecraft is still pretty popular, but games evolve and Roblox is just the new hot thing.

Also 343i is pretty incompetent yes

I think they are pretty intent on not messing with studio culture, or putting people in place of studios instead of the people who worked at them for years.

I dont think Tim Schafer would take kindly to being told what to do
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Pissy F Benny on April 10, 2021, 05:06:19 PM
hold on, do microsoft own double fine? :hhh
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on April 10, 2021, 06:09:02 PM
https://twitter.com/ComicBook/status/1381005510313410560 (https://twitter.com/ComicBook/status/1381005510313410560)

:thinking
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Let's Cyber on April 10, 2021, 06:09:07 PM
Keep in mind for the 360 generation, that leadership as a whole was okay selling a console that would experience critical hardware failure at a consistent and terrible rate. There was no way the RROD came as a surprise.
Moore talked about it a bit in some roundtable years ago.

nevermind, got it.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMe9EoZAeyo
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: who is ted danson? on April 10, 2021, 07:17:35 PM
https://twitter.com/ComicBook/status/1381005510313410560 (https://twitter.com/ComicBook/status/1381005510313410560)

:thinking

SPIDERMAN MOVIES!!
WOOOOO MARVEL

XBOX ANNIHILATED!!!
 :tauntaun :popcorn
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on April 10, 2021, 07:22:52 PM
Keep in mind for the 360 generation, that leadership as a whole was okay selling a console that would experience critical hardware failure at a consistent and terrible rate. There was no way the RROD came as a surprise.
Moore talked about it a bit in some roundtable years ago.

nevermind, got it.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMe9EoZAeyo
It is always great to see what a charismatic presence and great story teller Peter Moore is.
He just takes over the entire thing. It could be absolute bullshit but he can convince you of anything.

In comparison the other 3 at the table are just autisty's. Completely out of their league.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: MMaRsu on April 11, 2021, 05:28:19 AM
hold on, do microsoft own double fine? :hhh

Yeah dude for a few years already!
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Pissy F Benny on April 11, 2021, 05:56:04 AM
have they even has a game anyone outside their friends in the gaming press like in the last 15 years :doge :hmm
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on April 11, 2021, 06:14:02 AM
They're working on Psychonauts 2.

Supposed to ship this year  ???
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: MMaRsu on April 11, 2021, 07:46:46 AM
have they even has a game

yes
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Pissy F Benny on April 11, 2021, 08:24:31 AM
their shid always seemed mad wack to me and it seemed like they got coverage more because of their friendship with journos than actually making good games :trumps
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on April 11, 2021, 10:15:22 AM
Tim Schafer did some cult classics for Lucas Arts like Monkey Island and Full Throttle. And although he's made some 6's and 7's he never shit the bed the likes of Warren Spector have nor did he show hubris like Cliffy B. His games are still pretty good and he's a likeable dude.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on April 11, 2021, 11:08:07 AM
Tim Schafer did some cult classics for Lucas Arts like Monkey Island and Full Throttle. And although he's made some 6's and 7's he never shit the bed the likes of Warren Spector have nor did he show hubris like Cliffy B. His games are still pretty good and he's a likeable dude.

Monkey Island is Ron Gilbert's baby.
:ufup

Tim did help make the first two, though.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: MMaRsu on April 11, 2021, 11:40:05 AM
He did make Grim Fandango
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: paprikastaude on April 11, 2021, 11:54:25 AM
Psychonauts is good. Part 2 is still multiplat though, because it was crowdfunded.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: naff on April 11, 2021, 06:41:56 PM
Fuck Sony.

https://twitter.com/jasonschreier/status/1380476925811032065

 ???

i don't get it.

there should be nothing surprising in this piece, media corps have been incredibly risk averse for decades, not to mention in the middle of their most loss leading period (console launch) after a pandemic. sounds like bend was put to work on another project because they had nothing to work on and were allowed to be autonomous when they had something to pitch, t1x was disbanded because... who knows? very vague. sounds like the project was considered unnecessary and expensive. wholeheartedly agree with hermen on this one, canning the studio wanting to remake a remaster of TLoU sounds like a solid decision to me. terrible idea. another screecher from schrier. also hope ND don't push ahead with such a dumb remake.

should put that visual arts team to work on more important projects like the bb 60fps patch  8)
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: MMaRsu on April 12, 2021, 04:47:29 AM
Schreier the screecher 😂
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on April 12, 2021, 07:35:39 AM
https://twitter.com/dark1x/status/1381534570273722370

This is also the case with PS3.  I wonder if this is the same on PS5? :thinking
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: MMaRsu on April 12, 2021, 08:34:07 AM
What if you have a CFW ps3 tho ???
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Svejk on April 12, 2021, 10:10:35 AM
PS3 game patches have already been pulled from the store it seems.  I can only be optimistic that this is all part of their scheme of transferring it into this new service they're going to unveil.   :awesome

spoiler (click to show/hide)
that optimism was short lived when reality set in :fbm
[close]
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Pissy F Benny on April 12, 2021, 10:25:50 AM
Sony are pissing away the good will they've accumulated over the past gen by the day it seems :neogaf

krazy Ken back in charge by e3 2022 :rejoice
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: who is ted danson? on April 12, 2021, 10:38:02 AM
Aren't the vast majority of patches from the PSWii60 gen pretty small though, like <100mb? Why would they want to nuke them when they are still (I assume) going to host peoples digital game downloads which are several GB? WTF??
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on April 12, 2021, 11:18:19 AM
PS3 game patches have already been pulled from the store it seems.

Are you serious!?  :dizzy

:dead

EDIT: 

https://www.ign.com/articles/players-reportedly-unable-to-download-essential-ps3-game-patches-ahead-of-store-closure
https://forum.psnprofiles.com/topic/105801-no-patches-for-some-ps3-games/

Quote
A growing thread on ResetEra (https://www.resetera.com/threads/psa-various-ps3-updates-no-longer-downloadable-patch-games-now.408426/) is corroborating the list, with some users confirming that their owned games are not receiving updates. "Just popped in Lords of Shadow and sure enough, no update. This sucks because I literally just bought the DLC for it last week," Liam Allen-Miller said.

Man, fuck this company.  :lol
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Svejk on April 12, 2021, 11:31:12 AM
And I thought I had a hate boner for Nintendo.  :lol  Again, this is me just being optimistic, but it seems like they're doing something to redistribute a revised infrastructure.  It's too early to tell.  From the surface, yeah, it does look like they're shutting it all down, but let's wait and see. 

Wii eshop is closed too.. A system clearly better than the WiiU (and was BC even!), but people moved on and didn't care.  This really just looks like the same scenario from my perspective :doge

If people want to play these older games so bad, just emulate them... the emulators probably provide a much better experience anyways with upscaling, widescreen support, save states, etc..   :brain
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: HardcoreRetro on April 12, 2021, 11:42:58 AM
Wii eshop is closed too.. A system clearly better than the WiiU (and was BC even!), but people moved on and didn't care.  This really just looks like the same scenario from my perspective :doge

Except you can still redownload the games you already own on the Wii.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: paprikastaude on April 12, 2021, 11:52:44 AM
Wii eshop is closed too.. A system clearly better than the WiiU (and was BC even!), but people moved on and didn't care.  This really just looks like the same scenario from my perspective :doge

Except you can still redownload the games you already own on the Wii.

https://en-americas-support.nintendo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/27560/~/wii-shop-channel-discontinuation

In the future, we will be closing all services related to the Wii Shop Channel, including redownloading purchased WiiWare, Virtual Console titles, and Wii Channels, as well as Wii System Transfer Tool, which transfers data from the Wii console to the Wii U console.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: mormapope on April 12, 2021, 12:06:03 PM
E3 would be the absolute perfect time for Microsoft to add more BC games to the catalog
 :lawd

Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Tasty on April 12, 2021, 12:08:12 PM
Wii eshop is closed too.. A system clearly better than the WiiU (and was BC even!), but people moved on and didn't care.  This really just looks like the same scenario from my perspective :doge

Except you can still redownload the games you already own on the Wii.

https://en-americas-support.nintendo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/27560/~/wii-shop-channel-discontinuation

In the future, we will be closing all services related to the Wii Shop Channel, including redownloading purchased WiiWare, Virtual Console titles, and Wii Channels, as well as Wii System Transfer Tool, which transfers data from the Wii console to the Wii U console.

Wii games didn't have DLC or full game downloads though. The max on each download was like 40 MB.

Nor does it have some asinine forced-obsolescence DRM check on your own disc games. :doge

Also Nintendo giving a public heads up years ahead of time is MILES ahead of Sony's sneaky shit. Short of Svejk's theory about an architecture move being true, this is incredibly shittier than how Nintendo's handled their shop wind-downs. Not sure how that's arguable...
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: mormapope on April 12, 2021, 12:14:20 PM
There's no architecture move, if there was, Sony would absolutely make a big deal about backwards compatibility regarding this. There have been issues with cross gen versions of games on PS5, it would be absolutely miraculous if they've been working on BC software in the past couple of years.

They were sending out Vita development kits to a few developers right before these store closures were announced. They absolutely don't give a fuck.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Tuckers Law on April 12, 2021, 12:16:57 PM
Yeah all this stuff kind of solidifies for me a decision to not bother with PS5.  I guess PC and Nintendo is my future for now.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: paprikastaude on April 12, 2021, 12:50:01 PM
Wii eshop is closed too.. A system clearly better than the WiiU (and was BC even!), but people moved on and didn't care.  This really just looks like the same scenario from my perspective :doge

Except you can still redownload the games you already own on the Wii.

https://en-americas-support.nintendo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/27560/~/wii-shop-channel-discontinuation

In the future, we will be closing all services related to the Wii Shop Channel, including redownloading purchased WiiWare, Virtual Console titles, and Wii Channels, as well as Wii System Transfer Tool, which transfers data from the Wii console to the Wii U console.

Wii games didn't have DLC or full game downloads though. The max on each download was like 40 MB.

:confused

Say that to the now inaccessible Contra and Castlevania Rebirth.

Quote
Nor does it have some asinine forced-obsolescence DRM check on your own disc games. :doge

??? Can't say I've ever had any game with this either. Not like you'd know anything about most gaming platforms that goes beyond fanboy hearsay :doge And as someone who plays offline and unpatched whenever possible, in the entire HD era I've found less than five games really problematic unpatched from the disc. Let alone be blocked out of playing them.

Quote
Also Nintendo giving a public heads up years ahead of time is MILES ahead of Sony's sneaky shit. Short of Svejk's theory about an architecture move being true, this is incredibly shittier than how Nintendo's handled their shop wind-downs. Not sure how that's arguable...

Ok, they announced it earlier, but PSN games are announced to be downloadable still at this point. Wii is just dead. As will be DSi, 3DS and WiiU not that long into the future. lmao trying to spin the shitshow that is Nintendo online into anything desirable, just because it relates to other bad news rn. Reminds me of the goofballs that tried to chime in with prequel praise when the new Star Wars movie were also bad.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: paprikastaude on April 12, 2021, 01:17:06 PM
Sony are pissing away the good will they've accumulated over the past gen by the day it seems :neogaf

krazy Ken back in charge by e3 2022 :rejoice

Jimbo is the new Krazy, except not even meme-able and just terrible.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on April 12, 2021, 01:49:41 PM
(https://forum.xboxera.com/uploads/default/original/2X/1/19f0de6deb3b864809aa32f8316ab7a29ee14e0e.gif)

"Why?"

"Because fuck you, that's why!"
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on April 12, 2021, 01:53:28 PM
Also Nintendo giving a public heads up years ahead of time is MILES ahead of Sony's sneaky shit. Short of Svejk's theory about an architecture move being true, this is incredibly shittier than how Nintendo's handled their shop wind-downs. Not sure how that's arguable...

Exactly.  This is why I don't like what they're doing, unless the PS3 issue was some unintentional side effect, it's just being handled and communicated poorly.

https://in.ign.com/ps3/156762/news/ps3-drm-kills-digital-games-ps4-discs-report

OK, good to see that PS3 physical games will work in the future, at least.  Still sucks for PS4.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Svejk on April 12, 2021, 02:05:15 PM
PS4 doesn't play ANY legacy PS games and it still sold a metric ton...  some people complained, but it didn't seem to matter in the overall grand scheme of things..  I think the alarm bell is getting hit a bit too early...  Sure, on the surface, it looks fucked up (especially with the lack of communication. sounds like my employer), but surely there's a reason..  First, why would Cerny even mention how the PS5 is capable of legacy play and how it would achieve that?

But mostly, thanks to a wonderful, little game called Astro’s Playroom, never before has there been such a showcase honoring the PS legacy than before… I feel there’s a reason for that.  They've even restructured their studios to focus all on Team Asobi. 

spoiler (click to show/hide)
BUHLEE (https://media4.giphy.com/media/QzdJer4CUPGheUFa1n/giphy.gif) :hans1 :hans1 :hans1 BUHLEE (https://media4.giphy.com/media/QzdJer4CUPGheUFa1n/giphy.gif) :hans1 :hans1 :hans1BUHLEE (https://media4.giphy.com/media/QzdJer4CUPGheUFa1n/giphy.gif) :hans1 :hans1 :hans1BUHLEE (https://media4.giphy.com/media/QzdJer4CUPGheUFa1n/giphy.gif) :hans1 :hans1 :hans1
[close]
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Let's Cyber on April 12, 2021, 02:06:15 PM
And I thought I had a hate boner for Nintendo.  :lol  Again, this is me just being optimistic, but it seems like they're doing something to redistribute a revised infrastructure.  It's too early to tell.  From the surface, yeah, it does look like they're shutting it all down, but let's wait and see.
Maybe but I have a feeling they'll lock it behind a paywall. Maybe a revised PSNow thing with lots PSX, 2 and 3 games added in.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Svejk on April 12, 2021, 02:17:07 PM
And I thought I had a hate boner for Nintendo.  :lol  Again, this is me just being optimistic, but it seems like they're doing something to redistribute a revised infrastructure.  It's too early to tell.  From the surface, yeah, it does look like they're shutting it all down, but let's wait and see.
Maybe but I have a feeling they'll lock it behind a paywall. Maybe a revised PSNow thing with lots PSX, 2 and 3 games added in.
Oh they absolutely will put it behind a paywall.. But that's the only way they'll be able to compete in this generation of KONSULL HWARZ it seems.  I hate the paid subscription route, but it is what it is. 
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: MMaRsu on April 12, 2021, 04:20:01 PM
PS4 doesn't play ANY legacy PS games and it still sold a metric ton...  some people complained, but it didn't seem to matter in the overall grand scheme of things..  I think the alarm bell is getting hit a bit too early...  Sure, on the surface, it looks fucked up (especially with the lack of communication. sounds like my employer), but surely there's a reason..  First, why would Cerny even mention how the PS5 is capable of legacy play and how it would achieve that?

But mostly, thanks to a wonderful, little game called Astro’s Playroom, never before has there been such a showcase honoring the PS legacy than before… I feel there’s a reason for that.  They've even restructured their studios to focus all on Team Asobi. 

spoiler (click to show/hide)
BUHLEE (https://media4.giphy.com/media/QzdJer4CUPGheUFa1n/giphy.gif) :hans1 :hans1 :hans1 BUHLEE (https://media4.giphy.com/media/QzdJer4CUPGheUFa1n/giphy.gif) :hans1 :hans1 :hans1BUHLEE (https://media4.giphy.com/media/QzdJer4CUPGheUFa1n/giphy.gif) :hans1 :hans1 :hans1BUHLEE (https://media4.giphy.com/media/QzdJer4CUPGheUFa1n/giphy.gif) :hans1 :hans1 :hans1
[close]

Because let's face it its defacto the better console if you like to play games
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 12, 2021, 04:24:22 PM
PS4 doesn't play ANY legacy PS games and it still sold a metric ton...  some people complained, but it didn't seem to matter in the overall grand scheme of things..  I think the alarm bell is getting hit a bit too early...  Sure, on the surface, it looks fucked up (especially with the lack of communication. sounds like my employer), but surely there's a reason..  First, why would Cerny even mention how the PS5 is capable of legacy play and how it would achieve that?

But mostly, thanks to a wonderful, little game called Astro’s Playroom, never before has there been such a showcase honoring the PS legacy than before… I feel there’s a reason for that.  They've even restructured their studios to focus all on Team Asobi. 

spoiler (click to show/hide)
BUHLEE (https://media4.giphy.com/media/QzdJer4CUPGheUFa1n/giphy.gif) :hans1 :hans1 :hans1 BUHLEE (https://media4.giphy.com/media/QzdJer4CUPGheUFa1n/giphy.gif) :hans1 :hans1 :hans1BUHLEE (https://media4.giphy.com/media/QzdJer4CUPGheUFa1n/giphy.gif) :hans1 :hans1 :hans1BUHLEE (https://media4.giphy.com/media/QzdJer4CUPGheUFa1n/giphy.gif) :hans1 :hans1 :hans1
[close]

Any time anyone resorts to "but it sold well" argumentative metrics they've already lost. I'm not a Sony board member. I don't give a shit how much it sold.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Don Rumata on April 12, 2021, 04:40:46 PM
PS4 doesn't play ANY legacy PS games and it still sold a metric ton...  some people complained, but it didn't seem to matter in the overall grand scheme of things..  I think the alarm bell is getting hit a bit too early...  Sure, on the surface, it looks fucked up (especially with the lack of communication. sounds like my employer), but surely there's a reason..  First, why would Cerny even mention how the PS5 is capable of legacy play and how it would achieve that?

But mostly, thanks to a wonderful, little game called Astro’s Playroom, never before has there been such a showcase honoring the PS legacy than before… I feel there’s a reason for that.  They've even restructured their studios to focus all on Team Asobi. 

spoiler (click to show/hide)
BUHLEE (https://media4.giphy.com/media/QzdJer4CUPGheUFa1n/giphy.gif) :hans1 :hans1 :hans1 BUHLEE (https://media4.giphy.com/media/QzdJer4CUPGheUFa1n/giphy.gif) :hans1 :hans1 :hans1BUHLEE (https://media4.giphy.com/media/QzdJer4CUPGheUFa1n/giphy.gif) :hans1 :hans1 :hans1BUHLEE (https://media4.giphy.com/media/QzdJer4CUPGheUFa1n/giphy.gif) :hans1 :hans1 :hans1
[close]

Any time anyone resorts to "but it sold well" argumentative metrics they've already lost. I'm not a Sony board member. I don't give a shit how much it sold.
I am, that's why i was defending Last of Us 2 so much.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: who is ted danson? on April 12, 2021, 05:04:14 PM
Its time for Sony to distract us all by announcing The Last of Us 3 Remastered.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: naff on April 12, 2021, 06:02:44 PM
guessing i won't be able to claim the codes for the MGS Legacy Edition if i picked that up then. been meaning to for ages. decommissioning their servers is pretty shitty. seems wild given how cheap storage is when you're working on such a large scale, and you could probably support the bandwidth required to serve ps3/vita titles with a few shoestrings.

hermen hulst is dutch right? as always, the dutch are to blame
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Tuckers Law on April 12, 2021, 07:24:00 PM
The codes in the Legacy Collection are just for MGS1 and VR Missions, right?  Whole reason I bought the damn thing ages ago was to have MG1 and 2 on physical...
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: naff on April 12, 2021, 07:36:02 PM
i have mg1 physical psx already, but idk what i did with my good psx  :doge have a pretty dodgy looking one sitting in the garage. i just wanted to replay the series from the comfort of my couch instead of my pc through a janky emulator. seems like i probably need to cfw my ps3. have the old bc ps3 and a more recent slim but i reflowed the old bc unit with a hair dryer back in the day and it melted the temp control unit too, so it's now set to maximum fan constantly which is loud af and annoying (and tbh, it's prob liable to YLOD again at any point)
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Tuckers Law on April 12, 2021, 07:41:52 PM
That makes sense.

You gotta hand it to Sony, somehow they managed to already take their currently abysmal legacy support and make it even worse.  Fucking dickweeds.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: naff on April 12, 2021, 07:46:36 PM
i agree with svejk, this has got to be a precursor to consolidating their platform and offering a bc collection they can monetize and support more effectively going forward. can understand why they'd want to leave their ps3 / vita legacy behind them but this also seems a very callous and poorly organised move.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: headwalk on April 12, 2021, 07:52:44 PM
didn't jim reaper literally say something like "the old gran autismos look like shit and no sane person would want to play them today"
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: naff on April 12, 2021, 07:54:53 PM
if this is just the beginning of a move to push psnow more..... lol. sure, if they make actual ps1, 2 and 3 games playable via download instead of just streaming that's a step in the right direction but streaming games will always be a miss for me. i don't see how they can break the laws of physics to remove the client server lag.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Rahxephon91 on April 12, 2021, 08:16:19 PM
Sony is stupid. MS isn’t working on BC because they care about their legacy or whatever shit. They are doing it because it helps them. Gamepass wouldn’t have shit if it was just current MS first party which is laughable. Having BC boosts the library of what’s possible on Gamepass. It allows them to have a digital copy of something whenever a dude watches a YouTuber talk about some hidden gem.

On the whole I doubt many people use BC. I think this whole outrage over BC is a enthusiasts concern and honestly kind of a fake one. The people that really care have the old hardware, already have the game, and or also know how to emulate it. It’s a shame maybe new fans won’t be able to play Lunar for cheap, though they will because PC emulation can come through. But what Sony should realize is having BC means you can have your sub and that dude is going to subscribe to it because he can play Lunar and Digital Devil Saga, Dark Cloud, and God of War. Unlike MS, Sony has the games and the relationships to get them.

Follow the Marvel Unlimited idea. New first party games debut 3 months later. Yeah it won’t be as good as Gamepass in that regards, but people will be fine because your first party is stronger and the possible legacy of games is greater.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: naff on April 12, 2021, 09:30:32 PM
a lot more people care about psx/ps2 era than og xbox or 360 bc. a lot of people that like games don't want a pile of consoles lying around their tv. it's not hard. sony would be leaving too much obvious money on the table to not be actively working on a solution imo
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: mormapope on April 12, 2021, 09:33:20 PM
Quote
On the whole I doubt many people use BC

You're telling me most PS5 users and Series X users aren't playing last gen games on their consoles right now?  :lol



Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Rahxephon91 on April 12, 2021, 09:56:11 PM
Come on man, that’s a technicality. PS4 and One are still current and will be until maybe the end of 2022 at this rate. We're obviously talking about retro titles.

And we know Sony has claimed in the past that BC is not used as much. I think MS even claimed that back in the 360 days when they gave up on fixing BC. There was talk in the past that the reason PS classics and Wii’s Digital console stopped was that the cost to get them up and running plus rated by the ESRB outweighed the profit. Even now the BC push from MS is pushed by MS. Not the actual publishers who just agree to it. I mean you’d think EA would try and make sure all its 360 titles were on EA access but there are plenty of holes.

So no I think it’s pretty obvious this is a very specific core gamer issue.

Then again retro game stores seem too trendy right now. And yes I’ve also noticed how PS3 software seems to go for a bit more than 360. Also pretty much every Disc Replay or whatever I’ve busted in the Midwest has an awful PS2/PS1 section, so there may be a hunger out there regardless of how small it is.


But my point was that offering BC is a long game, as having those titles ready to go and on a subscription service is going to help. In the end, I think most would be happy with simple rom drops that a supposed PS5 emulated just scale to 1080p and call it a day.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: HardcoreRetro on April 13, 2021, 06:03:40 AM
I have the old bc ps3

In case you didn't know. All PS3s have PS1 backwards compatability. It's not perfect though since it's emulation.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Fifstar on April 13, 2021, 07:20:08 AM
Sony is stupid. MS isn’t working on BC because they care about their legacy or whatever shit. They are doing it because it helps them. Gamepass wouldn’t have shit if it was just current MS first party which is laughable. Having BC boosts the library of what’s possible on Gamepass. It allows them to have a digital copy of something whenever a dude watches a YouTuber talk about some hidden gem.

On the whole I doubt many people use BC. I think this whole outrage over BC is a enthusiasts concern and honestly kind of a fake one. The people that really care have the old hardware, already have the game, and or also know how to emulate it. It’s a shame maybe new fans won’t be able to play Lunar for cheap, though they will because PC emulation can come through. But what Sony should realize is having BC means you can have your sub and that dude is going to subscribe to it because he can play Lunar and Digital Devil Saga, Dark Cloud, and God of War. Unlike MS, Sony has the games and the relationships to get them.

Follow the Marvel Unlimited idea. New first party games debut 3 months later. Yeah it won’t be as good as Gamepass in that regards, but people will be fine because your first party is stronger and the possible legacy of games is greater.

Yeah, that topic is basically "I like to go online and complain about missing features that I wouldn't actually use in the first place".
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: tiesto on April 13, 2021, 12:10:20 PM
Sony is stupid. MS isn’t working on BC because they care about their legacy or whatever shit. They are doing it because it helps them. Gamepass wouldn’t have shit if it was just current MS first party which is laughable. Having BC boosts the library of what’s possible on Gamepass. It allows them to have a digital copy of something whenever a dude watches a YouTuber talk about some hidden gem.

On the whole I doubt many people use BC. I think this whole outrage over BC is a enthusiasts concern and honestly kind of a fake one. The people that really care have the old hardware, already have the game, and or also know how to emulate it. It’s a shame maybe new fans won’t be able to play Lunar for cheap, though they will because PC emulation can come through. But what Sony should realize is having BC means you can have your sub and that dude is going to subscribe to it because he can play Lunar and Digital Devil Saga, Dark Cloud, and God of War. Unlike MS, Sony has the games and the relationships to get them.

Follow the Marvel Unlimited idea. New first party games debut 3 months later. Yeah it won’t be as good as Gamepass in that regards, but people will be fine because your first party is stronger and the possible legacy of games is greater.

Speaking as someone who plays retro games more than most on this forum...

I have PS1 and 2 (of course), but only have my PS3 hooked up and play PS1/2 BC on the PS3, just because the space under my TV is already a mess of wires and consoles.... and in fact I think PS3's upscaling makes PS1/2 look better than even the original hardware with RGB and an OSSC.

Of course, due to my genre tastes I have way more games for PS consoles than Xbox, but it's super appealing that I can run the og Xbox copy of Burnout 3 (which I recently purchased thanks to watching an interesting youtube on Criterion and Burnout) on a Series X... and I won't need to have my Scorpio and og Xbox up (still need the 360 hooked up since I don't think a lot of the Cave shmups are BC compatible yet). A PS5 that allows you to play everything from PS1 onwards, disk based, would be an absolute dream for me.

And Rahx, the physical retro market has been hot for a while, though post pandemic it exploded even more, although Xbox games are still overall pretty cheap. Even the ones you think would be more sought-after like Panzer Dragoon Orta.  Ironically enough I was looking through my FB memories and one of them was me complaining in 2013 about how overpriced retro games were getting... if only I knew  :P Even the fucking Pokemon games, which sold gazillions of copies, are soaring. Even DS is going crazy now (I saw a DQ5 DS recently go for $200!)

I'm acquaintances or friends with a lot of local retro store owners and resellers, the most popular/fastest-value-accumulating retro games tend to be:
-shmups
-survival horror
-Japanese RPGs
-first party platformers (especially anything Nintendo)

So I think that's why people don't care about Xbox/360/One retro as much since MS consoles aren't known for aforementioned genres. Which is ironic, since right now MS has the best BC.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Rahxephon91 on April 13, 2021, 01:03:01 PM
The dumbest thing I ever did as a young adult was trade my DS rpg collection. I was young and needed money.

But I had everything. Dragon Quest 5, that Platinum Games space rpg, the Cyber Connect one for furries...
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on April 13, 2021, 01:19:46 PM
A PS5 that allows you to play everything from PS1 onwards, disk based, would be an absolute dream for me.

Would have been day one for me, even if I didn't care about any PS5 releases.  A digital store with PS1-PS5 games for sale would have been amazing, too.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Trent Dole on April 13, 2021, 02:26:43 PM
Wow so Sony is not just apathetic regarding games preservation but outright hostile towards? :doge
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: benjipwns on April 14, 2021, 12:58:04 AM
It's a trite statement to call Microsoft a software company and Sony a hardware company, but there is something to viewing this discussion through that kind of ideological lens. BC is where Microsoft's advantages as one of the world's most powerful software companies allows them to outperform Sony in a battlefield that Sony doesn't want to expend the cost to fight on. If we use this lens we can see where Microsoft might inherently view software as hardware independent because that's their ultimate model for Windows and everything else. Sony sees it all tied to the hardware because that's what they can control most easily. It's a fun ideological gambit by Microsoft that they can ultimately make Xbox into something that you just get a new revision of every so often and still can play all the stuff on. Not dumping the old hardware install base and offering GamePass services gives the impression that they're pumping value into their hardware for down the road when that won't actually be the case, it's a win-win for those of us who do want to always play that old stuff and Microsoft even if most people will just upgrade anyway.

The original Xbox One pitch was almost 180 degrees opposite from this, Microsoft wanted the Xbox One to be the center of everything, now they want the Xbox to just be another addition to your TV setup almost on the sly. Where you're like "okay, I've got Netflix setup and Disney+ setup, now I need to setup Xbox (Live) for games" and then you get the hardware for that rather than buying the hardware and then hopping into the ecosystems down the road. Microsoft is arguably faster to realize the software possibilities even when and where they fail and discard them.

Sony, by contrast, still seems to view the PlayStation venture as ultimately something that will sit at the center of your entertainment. It makes plenty of sense because the PS2 got there as a DVD player and a games player. But they still see the hardware as the key thing and they're less willing than Microsoft to simply eat the costs on the hardware to push the software. (Ironic considering this is what Sony famously did to both Nintendo and Sega!) This factors into the BC discussion because Sony sees each generation as separate because I assume they ideologically look at the specific hardware first and Microsoft much more easily sees the "software" sitting on top of all that hardware. Sony, if we apply this lens, would feel it's a waste to chase old and outdated hardware for fringe profits when they can push the newest hardware, Microsoft sees the potential advantages from having all that software available like software is available on Windows and especially the ability to sell it again for fringe profits.

As for exclusives, Microsoft has always gone through droughts where it loses the first-party push before going on a binge, buying up a bunch of developers, and "committing" to a round of releases just to let the developers "slack off" on Microsoft's dime. I'm not talking about just their Xbox stuff, look at Microsoft in the PC gaming sphere too, before Xbox even, they had this cycle ever since Ed Fries left. Hell, they had it with Ed Fries on PC. I think it's a factor of that "slacking off" which doesn't actually happen but because these developers no longer have the outside pressures, the standard time tables of getting releases out every two to three years slips and slips. And then when Microsoft has a corporate directive like "cancel everything on PC we're starting Xbox" or "cancel everything we're doing sports" or "cancel sports we're doing the 360" it creates another void and pushes things out further. I'd like to think that Xbox Games Studio is simply too large for this now, especially with Bethesda added, so we can have the best of both worlds in terms of Microsoft funding and quality releases at a good time table for PC/Xbox.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: benjipwns on April 14, 2021, 01:13:43 AM
It's a trite statement to call Microsoft a software company and Sony a hardware company, but there is something to viewing this discussion through that kind of ideological lens. BC is where Microsoft's advantages as one of the world's most powerful software companies allows them to outperform Sony in a battlefield that Sony doesn't want to expend the cost to fight on. If we use this lens we can see where Microsoft might inherently view software as hardware independent because that's their ultimate model for Windows and everything else. Sony sees it all tied to the hardware because that's what they can control most easily. It's a fun ideological gambit by Microsoft that they can ultimately make Xbox into something that you just get a new revision of every so often and still can play all the stuff on. Not dumping the old hardware install base and offering GamePass services gives the impression that they're pumping value into their hardware for down the road when that won't actually be the case, it's a win-win for those of us who do want to always play that old stuff and Microsoft even if most people will just upgrade anyway.

The original Xbox One pitch was almost 180 degrees opposite from this, Microsoft wanted the Xbox One to be the center of everything, now they want the Xbox to just be another addition to your TV setup almost on the sly. Where you're like "okay, I've got Netflix setup and Disney+ setup, now I need to setup Xbox (Live) for games" and then you get the hardware for that rather than buying the hardware and then hopping into the ecosystems down the road. Microsoft is arguably faster to realize the software possibilities even when and where they fail and discard them.

Sony, by contrast, still seems to view the PlayStation venture as ultimately something that will sit at the center of your entertainment. It makes plenty of sense because the PS2 got there as a DVD player and a games player. But they still see the hardware as the key thing and they're less willing than Microsoft to simply eat the costs on the hardware to push the software. (Ironic considering this is what Sony famously did to both Nintendo and Sega!) This factors into the BC discussion because Sony sees each generation as separate because I assume they ideologically look at the specific hardware first and Microsoft much more easily sees the "software" sitting on top of all that hardware. Sony, if we apply this lens, would feel it's a waste to chase old and outdated hardware for fringe profits when they can push the newest hardware, Microsoft sees the potential advantages from having all that software available like software is available on Windows and especially the ability to sell it again for fringe profits.

As for exclusives, Microsoft has always gone through droughts where it loses the first-party push before going on a binge, buying up a bunch of developers, and "committing" to a round of releases just to let the developers "slack off" on Microsoft's dime. I'm not talking about just their Xbox stuff, look at Microsoft in the PC gaming sphere too, before Xbox even, they had this cycle ever since Ed Fries left. Hell, they had it with Ed Fries on PC. I think it's a factor of that "slacking off" which doesn't actually happen but because these developers no longer have the outside pressures, the standard time tables of getting releases out every two to three years slips and slips. And then when Microsoft has a corporate directive like "cancel everything on PC we're starting Xbox" or "cancel everything we're doing sports" or "cancel sports we're doing the 360" it creates another void and pushes things out further. I'd like to think that Xbox Games Studio is simply too large for this now, especially with Bethesda added, so we can have the best of both worlds in terms of Microsoft funding and quality releases at a good time table for PC/Xbox.
lol GAMEPASS go brrrrrr
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Tasty on April 14, 2021, 09:40:06 AM
It's a trite statement to call Microsoft a software company and Sony a hardware company, but there is something to viewing this discussion through that kind of ideological lens. BC is where Microsoft's advantages as one of the world's most powerful software companies allows them to outperform Sony in a battlefield that Sony doesn't want to expend the cost to fight on. If we use this lens we can see where Microsoft might inherently view software as hardware independent because that's their ultimate model for Windows and everything else. Sony sees it all tied to the hardware because that's what they can control most easily. It's a fun ideological gambit by Microsoft that they can ultimately make Xbox into something that you just get a new revision of every so often and still can play all the stuff on. Not dumping the old hardware install base and offering GamePass services gives the impression that they're pumping value into their hardware for down the road when that won't actually be the case, it's a win-win for those of us who do want to always play that old stuff and Microsoft even if most people will just upgrade anyway.

The original Xbox One pitch was almost 180 degrees opposite from this, Microsoft wanted the Xbox One to be the center of everything, now they want the Xbox to just be another addition to your TV setup almost on the sly. Where you're like "okay, I've got Netflix setup and Disney+ setup, now I need to setup Xbox (Live) for games" and then you get the hardware for that rather than buying the hardware and then hopping into the ecosystems down the road. Microsoft is arguably faster to realize the software possibilities even when and where they fail and discard them.

Sony, by contrast, still seems to view the PlayStation venture as ultimately something that will sit at the center of your entertainment. It makes plenty of sense because the PS2 got there as a DVD player and a games player. But they still see the hardware as the key thing and they're less willing than Microsoft to simply eat the costs on the hardware to push the software. (Ironic considering this is what Sony famously did to both Nintendo and Sega!) This factors into the BC discussion because Sony sees each generation as separate because I assume they ideologically look at the specific hardware first and Microsoft much more easily sees the "software" sitting on top of all that hardware. Sony, if we apply this lens, would feel it's a waste to chase old and outdated hardware for fringe profits when they can push the newest hardware, Microsoft sees the potential advantages from having all that software available like software is available on Windows and especially the ability to sell it again for fringe profits.

As for exclusives, Microsoft has always gone through droughts where it loses the first-party push before going on a binge, buying up a bunch of developers, and "committing" to a round of releases just to let the developers "slack off" on Microsoft's dime. I'm not talking about just their Xbox stuff, look at Microsoft in the PC gaming sphere too, before Xbox even, they had this cycle ever since Ed Fries left. Hell, they had it with Ed Fries on PC. I think it's a factor of that "slacking off" which doesn't actually happen but because these developers no longer have the outside pressures, the standard time tables of getting releases out every two to three years slips and slips. And then when Microsoft has a corporate directive like "cancel everything on PC we're starting Xbox" or "cancel everything we're doing sports" or "cancel sports we're doing the 360" it creates another void and pushes things out further. I'd like to think that Xbox Games Studio is simply too large for this now, especially with Bethesda added, so we can have the best of both worlds in terms of Microsoft funding and quality releases at a good time table for PC/Xbox.
lol GAMEPASS go brrrrrr


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5uw4Jir6ks



(https://i.imgur.com/EGWHB85.png)
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 14, 2021, 05:07:04 PM
Sony is stupid. MS isn’t working on BC because they care about their legacy or whatever shit. They are doing it because it helps them. Gamepass wouldn’t have shit if it was just current MS first party which is laughable. Having BC boosts the library of what’s possible on Gamepass. It allows them to have a digital copy of something whenever a dude watches a YouTuber talk about some hidden gem.

On the whole I doubt many people use BC. I think this whole outrage over BC is a enthusiasts concern and honestly kind of a fake one. The people that really care have the old hardware, already have the game, and or also know how to emulate it. It’s a shame maybe new fans won’t be able to play Lunar for cheap, though they will because PC emulation can come through. But what Sony should realize is having BC means you can have your sub and that dude is going to subscribe to it because he can play Lunar and Digital Devil Saga, Dark Cloud, and God of War. Unlike MS, Sony has the games and the relationships to get them.

Follow the Marvel Unlimited idea. New first party games debut 3 months later. Yeah it won’t be as good as Gamepass in that regards, but people will be fine because your first party is stronger and the possible legacy of games is greater.

Speaking as someone who plays retro games more than most on this forum...

I have PS1 and 2 (of course), but only have my PS3 hooked up and play PS1/2 BC on the PS3, just because the space under my TV is already a mess of wires and consoles.... and in fact I think PS3's upscaling makes PS1/2 look better than even the original hardware with RGB and an OSSC.

Of course, due to my genre tastes I have way more games for PS consoles than Xbox, but it's super appealing that I can run the og Xbox copy of Burnout 3 (which I recently purchased thanks to watching an interesting youtube on Criterion and Burnout) on a Series X... and I won't need to have my Scorpio and og Xbox up (still need the 360 hooked up since I don't think a lot of the Cave shmups are BC compatible yet). A PS5 that allows you to play everything from PS1 onwards, disk based, would be an absolute dream for me.

And Rahx, the physical retro market has been hot for a while, though post pandemic it exploded even more, although Xbox games are still overall pretty cheap. Even the ones you think would be more sought-after like Panzer Dragoon Orta.  Ironically enough I was looking through my FB memories and one of them was me complaining in 2013 about how overpriced retro games were getting... if only I knew  :P Even the fucking Pokemon games, which sold gazillions of copies, are soaring. Even DS is going crazy now (I saw a DQ5 DS recently go for $200!)

I'm acquaintances or friends with a lot of local retro store owners and resellers, the most popular/fastest-value-accumulating retro games tend to be:
-shmups
-survival horror
-Japanese RPGs
-first party platformers (especially anything Nintendo)

So I think that's why people don't care about Xbox/360/One retro as much since MS consoles aren't known for aforementioned genres. Which is ironic, since right now MS has the best BC.

I checked some games and holy fucking shit, prices have skyrockted in just the past few months. This is insane. Some games that have been on the bucket list and used to be cheap are expensive af now.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: naff on April 14, 2021, 05:34:50 PM
It's still amazing to me Sony have not only survived this long but are actively competing against m$

Microsoft paid more than Sonys market cap for that company Dragon that makes speech to text software recently.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: naff on April 14, 2021, 05:38:35 PM
they've had a big hand in gaming even before Sony entered the market too. for as good as xbox is, it's baffling how the platform is still so bland
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: tiesto on April 14, 2021, 08:44:08 PM
they've had a big hand in gaming even before Sony entered the market too. for as good as xbox is, it's baffling how the platform is still so bland

Sony and MS, together at last (at first):

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1c/Sony_HitBit_HB-10P_%28White_Background%29.jpg)

Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: who is ted danson? on April 16, 2021, 05:07:01 AM
https://twitter.com/BenjiSales/status/1382881011357396993

What if MS scoop another one?  :lol

Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Pissy F Benny on April 16, 2021, 05:17:02 AM
epic pls :phil
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: MMaRsu on April 16, 2021, 05:55:12 AM
SE already denied it
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Pissy F Benny on April 16, 2021, 07:02:30 AM
i wouldn't be overly shocked if they sold off their western trash division (eidos) tbh :win
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 16, 2021, 10:46:35 AM
I'm going with Xbox for next gen. I regret buying every single PS4 game I bought due to the CMOS scandal.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Don Rumata on April 16, 2021, 10:57:56 AM
I'm going with Xbox for next gen. I regret buying every single PS4 game I bought due to the CMOS scandal.
That can still be patched out, as far as i understand.
In that case, you'd just need to swap the dead battery for a new one.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 16, 2021, 12:27:55 PM
I'm going with Xbox for next gen. I regret buying every single PS4 game I bought due to the CMOS scandal.
That can still be patched out, as far as i understand.
In that case, you'd just need to swap the dead battery for a new one.

This assumes Sony will patch it out. I doubt they will.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on April 16, 2021, 01:34:09 PM
I'm going with Xbox for next gen. I regret buying every single PS4 game I bought due to the CMOS scandal.

Would recommend a new PC instead- it will get all the same games, plus the stuff Xbox won't get.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Rahxephon91 on April 16, 2021, 01:53:08 PM
Sony updated the PS3 this year to play modern blu ray releases.

This whole CMOS scandal is overblown. It's not even a scandal. On no, maybe in 20 years the PS4 won't work!

What's the scandal? That like a lot of electronics the PS4 has a cmos battery, a battery that will eventually die. What a conspiracy!

By all means, go Xbox if you want, but you're being a little dramatic. You have no idea what an end of life patch will be like for the PS4.

I mean the PSP had patch support from 2006 to 2015.

PS3 patch 4.87 came out in December 2020.

Also, those supposed PS3 patches that weren't happening that gamers lost their shit over, was fixed days later.

Worrying about the Cmos battery is literally worrying about something that could happen decades from now.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: MMaRsu on April 16, 2021, 02:31:44 PM
You really are a sony fanboy arent u
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Rahxephon91 on April 16, 2021, 02:45:38 PM
Sure.

But regardless of that, I think this is pretty dumb.

Are you really going to care that the PS4 is a brick 20 years from now when we are on PS7, Xbox Series Ruby and Saphire, and the Nintendo MindFuckU? I don't think so.

But it's also "outrage" driven by nothing proven. Even the articles about this just assume "oh this is doomsday.......years from now". And then assume nothing will be done, when there's evidence such as a PS3 patch 4 months ago that easily says otherwise.

Quote
An eventual issue

None of this is a huge problem for most PlayStation owners right now. Yes, the 10- to 20-year lifespan on your average CMOS battery is slowly running out, especially for the earliest PS3 hardware. But replacing the battery and resyncing the internal timer with PSN is a relatively minor annoyance for the time being (assuming you can find a Wi-Fi hotspot and PSN isn't suffering one of its rare outages).
But nothing lasts forever, as Sony's recent decisions regarding older PlayStation online stores show. At some point in the future, whether it's in one year or 100 years, Sony will shut off the PSN servers that power the timing check for hardware it no longer considers important. After that, it's only a matter of time before failing CMOS batteries slowly reduce all PS3 and PS4 hardware to semi-functional curios.

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2021/04/the-looming-software-kill-switch-lurking-in-aging-playstation-hardware/

Quote
Sony could render the problem moot relatively easily with a firmware update that limits the system functions tied to this timing check. Thus far, though, Sony hasn't publicly indicated it has any such plans and hasn't responded to multiple requests for comment from Ars Technica. Until it does, complicated workarounds that make use of jailbroken firmware are the only option for ensuring that aging PlayStation hardware will remain fully usable well into the future.

You are literally getting up in arms about something you wouldn't care about or know unless someone told you to be angry about it. And it’s all on assumption based on the ill will being drawn out recently through the closing of the store.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Beezy on April 16, 2021, 03:19:35 PM
Nintendo MindFuckU
This is great.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 16, 2021, 04:07:56 PM
Batteries go off all the time, Rah. How do I know when my system battery will die?

Also, this impacts PS3 too. The very system that is having its servers cut off within months and is a decade old system. Given the combination of Sony cutting off servers, the cmos battery issue, Sony not respecting their overall history and BC, and I have no reason to want to invest in their platforms going forward. My ps3 is what, a decade old? How much time does it have left 5 years?
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 16, 2021, 04:08:59 PM
I'm going with Xbox for next gen. I regret buying every single PS4 game I bought due to the CMOS scandal.

Would recommend a new PC instead- it will get all the same games, plus the stuff Xbox won't get.

I prefer physical so that leaves me to Xbox.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on April 16, 2021, 04:24:51 PM
i wouldn't be overly shocked if they sold off their western trash division (eidos) tbh :win
Bravely Default on Eidos. :trumps

But yeah, Square Enix could be bought by Sony, Microsoft or even Nintendo easily.
Whoever puts up enough money gets it. Capcom is probably harder to acquire.

Also I recommend to buy whatever is in stock first because you won't be able to find much for sale anyway.

Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 16, 2021, 04:29:29 PM
Also, the entire idea of "no one cares about bc lol" is just bad argumentation. I very much do. I replayed FFVII on my ps2 last year. Speaking of PS2, I have had it hooked it up every tv I have owned since 2001. The only reason it's not hooked up to my current tv is because my ps2 is literally across the country. Last year I played Mario 64 and Banjo Kazooie on real N64 hardware. I have a crt and very much play and buy old games. I very much care and have invested hundreds of games into Sony hardware. Hell, I still play physical NES and SNES games and have been building a collection. I very, very, VERY  much care about BC.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Svejk on April 16, 2021, 04:34:57 PM
I'm going with Xbox for next gen. I regret buying every single PS4 game I bought due to the CMOS scandal.

Would recommend a new PC instead- it will get all the same games, plus the stuff Xbox won't get.

I prefer physical so that leaves me to Xbox.
??? With the only saving grace for xbox right now being GamePass...  Unless you already have a giant XB physical collection already, I wouldn't put your eggs in that basket....

Nintendo shit otherwise? Sure.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 16, 2021, 04:35:25 PM
Right now, I look at some ps4 games I wanted to play and I seriously don't care. I was going to buy a PS5 to play PS4 games I missed like Resident Evil VII, REmake 2 and 3 but now due to the CMOS news I feel like a dumbass for investing in their platform and are trying to buy any single game I can outside the PlayStation ecosystem. SaGa Frontier Remastered? I'm buying that for Switch physical and digital. SMT3 HD? Switch. I wanted to get Judgement but now I know to get it on Xbox. So I'm going just to get an Xbox Series X and buy the games I wanted for ps4, and rebuy the games I own and cherish on ps4 on Xbox One (Dark Souls Trilogy).
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 16, 2021, 04:40:12 PM
I'm going with Xbox for next gen. I regret buying every single PS4 game I bought due to the CMOS scandal.

Would recommend a new PC instead- it will get all the same games, plus the stuff Xbox won't get.

I prefer physical so that leaves me to Xbox.
??? With the only saving grace for xbox right now being GamePass...  Unless you already have a giant XB physical collection already, I wouldn't put your eggs in that basket....

Nintendo shit otherwise? Sure.

And trust Sony with the games I own and want to play?

Nah, I'm good.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on April 16, 2021, 04:41:06 PM
This "war" is already over. I'm seeing the Xbots on ResetEra and other places make all kinds of excuses.
"Full RDNA 2 is limiting stock", "Microsoft delayed HALO so they had less supply", "Sony beat them on waffer orders"

https://twitter.com/MatPiscatella/status/1383042564756893703 (https://twitter.com/MatPiscatella/status/1383042564756893703)
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: MMaRsu on April 16, 2021, 04:55:29 PM
Honestly ofcourse electronics can die. It's just im used to Nintendo (pre Switch) build quality.

I would like it if my shit still worked in 20 years, and if it does my digital games still work too. I know it might be much to ask but like, maybe not?
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: who is ted danson? on April 16, 2021, 05:11:18 PM
My sony subwoofer just killed itslef so i am now officially team #fucksony
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Svejk on April 16, 2021, 05:34:23 PM
I'm going with Xbox for next gen. I regret buying every single PS4 game I bought due to the CMOS scandal.

Would recommend a new PC instead- it will get all the same games, plus the stuff Xbox won't get.

I prefer physical so that leaves me to Xbox.
??? With the only saving grace for xbox right now being GamePass...  Unless you already have a giant XB physical collection already, I wouldn't put your eggs in that basket....

Nintendo shit otherwise? Sure.

And trust Sony with the games I own and want to play?

Nah, I'm good.
Well Yeah, no, I wouldn't do that either if you have physical PS games.  :ahnuld2
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Rahxephon91 on April 16, 2021, 05:45:22 PM
Batteries go off all the time, Rah. How do I know when my system battery will die?

Also, this impacts PS3 too. The very system that is having its servers cut off within months and is a decade old system. Given the combination of Sony cutting off servers, the cmos battery issue, Sony not respecting their overall history and BC, and I have no reason to want to invest in their platforms going forward. My ps3 is what, a decade old? How much time does it have left 5 years?
Thats correct. Batteries die off all the time. That’s never stoped you from buying any electronics before. You also have no real reason to believe that the simple server that handles this check will ever go offline or if it does the PS4 wouldn’t already be patched by then. This issue is being wrapped around the PS store issue, but they are not 100% the same. Right now and for the foreseeable future if your cmos were to die, you could replace it no problem.

PS3 is not having its servers cut off. It’s having the store taken down. The servers that handle downloads will still be on. Also If you were to buy a PSP that has never been updated, it would still be able to connect and update. Also the issues that people were having patching PS3 games was fixed. And again the PS3 was recently patched so it could continue playing new encoded blu rays. So there’s plenty of evidence that inspite of the store issue that suggest this cmos issue is overblown.

Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Rahxephon91 on April 16, 2021, 05:54:45 PM
Also, the entire idea of "no one cares about bc lol" is just bad argumentation. I very much do. I replayed FFVII on my ps2 last year. Speaking of PS2, I have had it hooked it up every tv I have owned since 2001. The only reason it's not hooked up to my current tv is because my ps2 is literally across the country. Last year I played Mario 64 and Banjo Kazooie on real N64 hardware. I have a crt and very much play and buy old games. I very much care and have invested hundreds of games into Sony hardware. Hell, I still play physical NES and SNES games and have been building a collection. I very, very, VERY  much care about BC.
The counter argument of “I have everything from the nes to the PS5 hooked up through my framemister so clearly people care about BC” is a better argument? 
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 16, 2021, 05:57:02 PM
I didn't say "everyone", just that many care about it. To wave it off with,"no one cares except a minority of people lol" is bad.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Rahxephon91 on April 16, 2021, 06:21:05 PM
I didn't say "everyone", just that many care about it. To wave it off with,"no one cares except a minority of people lol" is bad.

“No one cares” is hyperbole clearly. People obviously care, but it’s arguable that it’s a pretty small core gamer group only.

But you know you’ve been high on the Switch. Which is a system with known controller issues, which you have no idea if the next system will be BC thanks to its cartridge format,  and made from a company with a very spotty BC legacy as well.

Like this is why I’m taking the stance that right now there’s a whirlwind of seemingly bad press about the PlayStation that is taking hold. Bad stuff that I don’t think most would give a shit about if it wasn’t just a conclave of bad stuff.  This cmos stuff is being magnified by the store going down. But there’s nothing that really supports the cmos issue being this console shattering issue.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Don Rumata on April 16, 2021, 06:49:42 PM
I think people play what they're offered, within reason.

I watch a bunch of Let's Plays, and usually "normies" play old games when they get remastered or re-released in a more or less public way, but they do enjoy them unless they're really dated (like a lot of PS1 stuff).
Like there's no reason anybody wouldn't be able to enjoy a Silent Hill 3 nowadays, if it was re-released on a platform people own, and with no hassle to get through to set it up, just get some upres. retouched controls, maybe a quick-save or that kind of minor remaster shit, and that's it.
This is stuff you could basically implement on a system level, like MS is sort of doing.

Some games are cut off of the larger sphere, and only retro nerds will bother, but a lot of other ones, are just out of reach and still perfectly enjoyable.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Lonewulfeus on April 16, 2021, 06:58:24 PM
Don’t worry snoys, you’ll forget about all the hard words people said about Sony when you’re playing the next sad dad simulator.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 16, 2021, 07:05:37 PM
I didn't say "everyone", just that many care about it. To wave it off with,"no one cares except a minority of people lol" is bad.

“No one cares” is hyperbole clearly. People obviously care, but it’s arguable that it’s a pretty small core gamer group only.

But you know you’ve been high on the Switch. Which is a system with known controller issues, which you have no idea if the next system will be BC thanks to its cartridge format,  and made from a company with a very spotty BC legacy as well.

Like this is why I’m taking the stance that right now there’s a whirlwind of seemingly bad press about the PlayStation that is taking hold. Bad stuff that I don’t think most would give a shit about if it wasn’t just a conclave of bad stuff.  This cmos stuff is being magnified by the store going down. But there’s nothing that really supports the cmos issue being this console shattering issue.

Fair criticism. The problem is, I don't expect BC from Nintendo, console-wise. They've never offered it besides with Wii U. It has never been a part of their legacy beyond their portable systems where it has become a mainstay. So my expectations are different. Sony, however, is my old flame. I have higher expectations from Sony than I do Nintendo. With Sony my expectations are much higher. They were, after all, the company that pioneered BC at one point. So it's important to me. I gave them a pass with PS4 not having ps1 or ps2 BC. But now they don't have 1-3 BC on 5 despite 5 being more than capable of 1 or 2 BC. Then there's the CMOS situation. I play on Nintendo hardware over 20 years old regularly and they still work. I consider buying games on a platform an investment, but with PS3 and PS4 turns out they won't even be able to play physical games (my main game investment on those platforms) if the battery goes off. And since Sony isn't doing any BC, well, this complicates things. Combined with my higher standards for Sony and the fact they seemingly don't seem to give a shit, it just turns me off and I'm done giving them chances. While it's true Nintendo Switch Joycon's have durability issues, they're just controllers and third party controllers are a thing. Plus their Pro Controller is expertly crafted. I expect I'll be able to play my Switch 15 years down the road and given Nintendo's history with BC and handheld consoles (which Switch constitutes) I expect to be able to play physical Switch games on the Switch's successor.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Rahxephon91 on April 16, 2021, 07:08:36 PM
I never got that meme as “sad dad” describes two games.

And the next PS games are Returnal and Ratchet. Sad dad games in deed.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 16, 2021, 07:14:12 PM
Returnal looks quite good. :obama

Someone please give cogent answers as to why I should invest in Sony's PS5 platform and not just get an Xbox Series X?
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Rahxephon91 on April 16, 2021, 07:25:04 PM
So Nintendo gets the benefit of the doubt, while Sony doesn’t?

There’s no no known CMOS issue with PS5.

PS5 is fully BC with the PS4 unlike the Switch, but you expect no problems with the next Nintendo system?

PS3 comos issue is not the same as the PS4 and will be playable after it’s replaced if needed. There’s nothing that says you won’t be able to play physical games.

PS4 cmos issue is fixable. You’re just assuming it won’t be based on really just nihilism. Like again they patched the PS3 so it could work with modern blu rays just for months ago. The PSP can still download updates and patches. They are taking down the store but have said that downloads will still be going on. There is no real sign that 20 years from now the simple certificate check is going down.

Like to me, you are banging on a a bunch of assumptions. You say they don’t care, but the facts don’t line up with how these systems are supported.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 16, 2021, 07:28:35 PM
I have much lower expectations from Sony than Nintendo. Nintendo is doing what they've always done. This is the company whose games never drop in price. Not only is Sony make it harder to play their systems that I currently own, I have zero reason to trust them in the future given their current priorities. Microsoft is meeting those priorities.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: paprikastaude on April 16, 2021, 07:30:42 PM
If the time comes, I can see Jimbo being the kind of guy telling people with broken PS4s to buy a PS5 if they want to keep their games.

But I wouldn't worry about my collection. Hardware is one of my smallest concerns for preservation. There's enough freaks making shit like Retron5 for consoles that were much less popular and way clumsier to handle. If Sony doesn't do it, no question there'll be an instant hack to remove the clock or whatever in no time.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Rahxephon91 on April 16, 2021, 07:34:03 PM
How are they making it harder? This is a pure what if situation.

Well what if the Series X has another RROD.

What if MS stops Gamepass?
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 16, 2021, 07:36:13 PM
How are they making it harder? This is a pure what if situation.

Well what if the Series X has another RROD.

What if MS stops Gamepass?

This entire thing has been predicated on worst case scenarios, though. Sony culling things I care about like Japan Studio and their other Japanese output, their treatment of their history, their priorities, the CMOS debacle, all combined makes me not want to support or reward them.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on April 16, 2021, 07:38:33 PM
Depends on what you're looking for games like Perfect Dark and Fable won't release until 2023/2024. 2021 will be HALO and maybe Forza, followed by the Rare game in 2022.

Sony has a bigger number of exclusives out sooner.
PS5 also seems be the lead platform for a number of 3rd party games like Village and Square Enix but performance will be very similar.

The big advantages are GamePass and backwards compatibility.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Trent Dole on April 16, 2021, 08:48:55 PM
lol fanboy bullshit. Buy everything if you wanna, you can afford it. :P
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on April 16, 2021, 11:10:32 PM
Cindi, what about where FGC goes with consoles?  Xbox is still getting less fighting games compared to PS4/5 and PC- look at Guilty Gear Strive, for example.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 17, 2021, 12:22:15 AM
Cindi, what about where FGC goes with consoles?  Xbox is still getting less fighting games compared to PS4/5 and PC- look at Guilty Gear Strive, for example.

Most players play on pc these days and Strive is coming to pc. Even more reason to not care about the next PS console.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: headwalk on April 17, 2021, 06:50:28 AM
the FGC being PS centric doesn't make sense anymore given that moving to PS5 means: upgrading your console, rebuying all your peripherals, paying console tax on new releases, paying a monthly fee to play online, having to cart a giant monstrosity around with you when you could build a mITX PC that's half the size and twice as powerful, and you'll need a different console for older games (or a laptop for MAME era stuff)
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Beezy on April 17, 2021, 10:59:58 AM
No one can build shit for the foreseeable future without overpaying for a GPU. Even the 1000 series cards.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 17, 2021, 01:12:52 PM
the FGC being PS centric doesn't make sense anymore given that moving to PS5 means: upgrading your console, rebuying all your peripherals, paying console tax on new releases, paying a monthly fee to play online, having to cart a giant monstrosity around with you when you could build a mITX PC that's half the size and twice as powerful, and you'll need a different console for older games (or a laptop for MAME era stuff)

Xbox S is also smaller and cheaper and includes BC so people can play old games more easily. Most have accepted ps5 as the next fgc console though, but many are still sticking with pc. People hate playing fgs on psn. Literally. Hate. And most players I play with just play on PC. So console choice doesn't affect me.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Let's Cyber on April 17, 2021, 02:23:58 PM
Xbox S is also smaller and cheaper and includes BC so people can play old games more easily.
Not if your collection is physical.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Rahxephon91 on April 17, 2021, 03:40:14 PM
Xbox S also seems like the most pointless console so far. Weaker and digital only. I’m good.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on April 17, 2021, 04:06:47 PM
Xbox S also seems like the most pointless console so far. Weaker and digital only. I’m good.
Xbox S with GamePass is actually a very compelling product if you're still stuck on a 1080p screen or just want a gaming machine with a small footprint.
If Microsoft would've put some marketing behind it, it could've been a surprise hit.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Pissy F Benny on April 17, 2021, 04:16:40 PM
500 gig hard drive too :kobeyuck
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on April 17, 2021, 04:26:08 PM
the FGC being PS centric doesn't make sense anymore given that moving to PS5 means: upgrading your console, rebuying all your peripherals, paying console tax on new releases, paying a monthly fee to play online, having to cart a giant monstrosity around with you when you could build a mITX PC that's half the size and twice as powerful, and you'll need a different console for older games (or a laptop for MAME era stuff)

Xbox S is also smaller and cheaper and includes BC so people can play old games more easily. Most have accepted ps5 as the next fgc console though, but many are still sticking with pc. People hate playing fgs on psn. Literally. Hate. And most players I play with just play on PC. So console choice doesn't affect me.

Would just keep in mind that not everything is going to release on PC at the same time as PS4 or PS5 and the general online populations are going to be lower if the games don't have crossplay- or just dead if it's not released on Steam (like Samurai Shodown- sent to die on EGS).  Something like Street Fighter 6 not having cross-play would make me buy it on a PS console, but if the leaks are to be believed, it's coming out on PS4 anyway.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: benjipwns on April 17, 2021, 11:30:30 PM
I'm pretty sure the Series S exists purely so Microsoft can say that the Xbox starts at $299, whether or not anyone actually buys them. Or can buy them.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Supermanisdead on April 18, 2021, 12:34:06 AM
i have a series S. its really great actually. small, quiet, cheap. i got a deal on 15 months of gamepass for about 30 dollars so its been perfect.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: team filler on April 18, 2021, 03:24:12 AM
series s is a complete piece of shit  :lol
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: BIONIC on April 18, 2021, 03:28:57 AM
series s is a complete piece of shit  :lol

What do you think the S stands for?  :rodney
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: MMaRsu on April 18, 2021, 04:35:18 AM
series s is a complete piece of shit  :lol

What do you think the S stands for?  :rodney

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCgP-_GKb1c
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on April 19, 2021, 01:44:08 PM
https://twitter.com/PlayStation/status/1384190230354223110

 :brain
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Don Rumata on April 19, 2021, 01:45:41 PM
Imagine the suckers who bought ps3 games on ebay in these past few weeks.  :lol
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: MMaRsu on April 19, 2021, 01:46:25 PM
Imagine the suckers who bought ps3 games on ebay in these past few weeks.  :lol

For enormeous prices too!

Thankfully shit will hopefully calm down a bit so I can buy some games for cheap
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: paprikastaude on April 19, 2021, 02:13:32 PM
One of many Ls for idiot fanboys who demonize everyone who is not content with their favorite company's "genius" marketing plans. Actual fans always need to voice concerns and discontent, so maybe some kind of change might happen. Doesn't matter how troll-ish these concerns might look.

Sadly, it's not like that corporate sluts of any kind ever remember these things. The idiots who now said "who needs old games anyway, good move / have you played old things recently???" are the same kind who sperge over Demon's Souls and Xenoblade in their list wars, but back in the day also boot-licked their favorite CEOs' decision not to localize the originals out of "rational" marketing reaons.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Svejk on April 19, 2021, 02:18:06 PM
Imagine the suckers who bought ps3 games on ebay in these past few weeks.  :lol
And the surge of digital software sales in the process.  :money  :putin People should be even more pissed now.  :lol

Sounds like a similar scenario like when MS hiked the XB Live subscription to double the price for no reason whatsoever, then rolled it back when enough people bitched about it.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: mormapope on April 19, 2021, 02:55:53 PM
People should keep bitching so they expand BC to everything on PS3/Vita to PS5. Id buy a PS5 in a heartbeat if I could play all the digital versions of PS1 JRPGs on it.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: paprikastaude on April 19, 2021, 03:07:35 PM
People should keep bitching so they expand BC to everything on PS3/Vita to PS5. Id buy a PS5 in a heartbeat if I could play all the digital versions of PS1 JRPGs on it.

There's been enough people saying that Krazy Ken's PS3 architecture is too hard to emulate that I can believe it. But no one can tell me that enabling those PS1 games is any more difficult than checking some box that makes your machine play music files.  :doge  The PS2 emulator seems a little iffy on PS3 from my experience, but that shouldn't cause problems on a PS5 either anymore, I'd assume. Some argued that the lacklustre PS2 support on PS4 was because of new trophies they'd have to add. Which would be dumb. Trophy cheat prevention is also why they designed that online check for the PS4 internal clock. As if we needed more proof that this is the most stupid feature of modern gaming.

I guess, especially with how MS does things, the expectation might now be that you remaster every old game individually into 4k or whatever. But I don't care, just let me play my things easily through HDMI without switching the machine.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 19, 2021, 05:51:08 PM
One of many Ls for idiot fanboys who demonize everyone who is not content with their favorite company's "genius" marketing plans. Actual fans always need to voice concerns and discontent, so maybe some kind of change might happen. Doesn't matter how troll-ish these concerns might look.

Sadly, it's not like that corporate sluts of any kind ever remember these things. The idiots who now said "who needs old games anyway, good move / have you played old things recently???" are the same kind who sperge over Demon's Souls and Xenoblade in their list wars, but back in the day also boot-licked their favorite CEOs' decision not to localize the originals out of "rational" marketing reaons.

Yup. It's tough love out here being an actual game fan.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Tuckers Law on April 19, 2021, 05:55:12 PM
One of many Ls for idiot fanboys who demonize everyone who is not content with their favorite company's "genius" marketing plans. Actual fans always need to voice concerns and discontent, so maybe some kind of change might happen. Doesn't matter how troll-ish these concerns might look.

Sadly, it's not like that corporate sluts of any kind ever remember these things. The idiots who now said "who needs old games anyway, good move / have you played old things recently???" are the same kind who sperge over Demon's Souls and Xenoblade in their list wars, but back in the day also boot-licked their favorite CEOs' decision not to localize the originals out of "rational" marketing reaons.

You say a lot of mad and crazy shit about video games, but this is the realist thing you’ve ever said.  I cannot possibly co-sign it enough.

 :mynicca
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: naff on April 20, 2021, 12:34:41 AM
cindi

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EzX8nVxVkAI-q54?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)

anyway, you can replace your cmos battery in a ps4 just like you would a pc's. how would you recommend a device keeping it's date/time when unplugged without using a CMOS? guess it sucks the console is all but bricked without it or an internet connection, but the fix is extremely simple and only something you'd have to do every 10 to 20 years. all for complaining about stuff, but this seems like a bit of a non event.

also lol, wth is going on with people  ??? https://twitter.com/DoesItPlay1/status/1384282918877491210

https://www.tomsguide.com/news/ps5-battery-failure-issue-exposed-what-you-need-to-know
also how it applies to ps5 (series is more or less the same afaik, switch likely too)
Quote
Why does my PS5 need to know the time?
DRM, or digital rights management, is used to protect copyrights on digital media. Technologies like DRM require internet connections to ensure a person is playing a legitimate piece of media. Because Sony wraps PS5 games in this protective bubble to prevent theft, the system needs to know the time or it upsets the DRM and it locks you out of the game.

It’s also possible that Sony could, if it wanted to, send a final patch out to consoles when it’s going to stop supporting them that would remove all of these restrictions. That would mean that any games on your console would continue to work with or without the internet. Will Sony do that? Unlikely.

There's also the issue of trophy synching. For trophies to sync properly with Sony's servers, it requires the CMOS battery to be alive. If trophies don't properly sync, gamers will run into errors.

The big argument here is that many people want their current consoles to be like the NES, which you can plug in and use right now. Modern consoles are too reliant on DRM and connecting to the internet for that to be guaranteed in the future.

i doubt nintendo is exempt from these issues either. this is just how modern consumer tech works m8s.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Tasty on April 20, 2021, 08:18:05 AM
Quote
this is just how modern consumer tech works m8s.

This is such a bullshit cop-out lol.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Don Rumata on April 20, 2021, 08:22:21 AM
Like with everything else, people bitching about it online seems to be the only recourse (where a patch can be a solution).
But i don't think enough people care to move the needle, tbh.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Tasty on April 20, 2021, 08:23:30 AM
Quote
i doubt nintendo is exempt from these issues either.

They are. Or at least, these specific issues.

Trophies are stupid bullshit and requiring extra hardware to make sure "the time is tip-top perfect and no bad smelly hackers have EVER changed it" is fucking overkill.

I will die on this hill. Fuck system-level trophies and achievements, especially if this is the outcome.





Also fuck MS's new Xbox sign-up process. Google enforces something similar for Chromebooks and it's not cool there either. Microsoft keeps prompting me to add an account to Windows 10 and won't even let you activate a new computer without an MS account now unless you physically disconnect from the internet (https://helpdeskgeek.com/windows-10/how-to-setup-windows-10-without-a-microsoft-account/). I hate this direction for hardware you ostensibly own.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Svejk on April 20, 2021, 09:01:45 AM
Quote
this is just how modern consumer tech works m8s.

This is such a bullshit cop-out lol.
But it's true unfortunately.  We all get a $500-$1000 cellphone that will last 5 years (if you're lucky) and we just all take that pill up the ass... Is it disgusting? Yes.. but what other choice do we have to get our fix?  And I know it's apples and oranges (cellphones vs. gaming hardware), but we shouldn't be surprised they are no longer making things to last.  That age has long gone for electronics.  Something drastic has to change, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: paprikastaude on April 20, 2021, 10:45:55 AM
I never bought anything digital that I couldn't get in physical form. If there's no other way, I get digital games solely on PC these days. I learned my lesson with Wii. And I guess New 3DS. It already irked me that I couldn't sell its pre-installed game, because I didn't care for it and would have liked to get some bucks back. But then it also turned out that that pos has the tendency to lose its color layers on the outside. So now I have that game and a few other digital Nintendo things trapped on that rancid looking 3DS, with a wobbly screen too, whose online service will probably die soon like Wii, as it already happened in South America.

Sadly, some PS classics I also had to get on the PSN to be feasible, but I never felt like I ever really owned them. As I understand it from that account's current testings, physical PS3 games won't need the clock synch and physical PS4 games neither on PS5, which makes me confident that some later firmware will remove that mechanic from original PS4 hardware also (especially now that they are pressured). That's what I care about. Next, unlock PS1/2 for PS5.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Don Rumata on April 20, 2021, 10:54:37 AM
Quote
i doubt nintendo is exempt from these issues either.

They are. Or at least, these specific issues.

Trophies are stupid bullshit and requiring extra hardware to make sure "the time is tip-top perfect and no bad smelly hackers have EVER changed it" is fucking overkill.

I will die on this hill. Fuck system-level trophies and achievements, especially if this is the outcome.





Also fuck MS's new Xbox sign-up process. Google enforces something similar for Chromebooks and it's not cool there either. Microsoft keeps prompting me to add an account to Windows 10 and won't even let you activate a new computer without an MS account now unless you physically disconnect from the internet (https://helpdeskgeek.com/windows-10/how-to-setup-windows-10-without-a-microsoft-account/). I hate this direction for hardware you ostensibly own.
Didn't the Switch (or was it the Wiiu?) have the problem of not being able to carry over an account/saves from one machine to the next?
But i agree with the general sentiment.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: BIONIC on April 20, 2021, 11:39:48 AM
Quote
i doubt nintendo is exempt from these issues either.

They are. Or at least, these specific issues.

Trophies are stupid bullshit and requiring extra hardware to make sure "the time is tip-top perfect and no bad smelly hackers have EVER changed it" is fucking overkill.

I will die on this hill. Fuck system-level trophies and achievements, especially if this is the outcome.





Also fuck MS's new Xbox sign-up process. Google enforces something similar for Chromebooks and it's not cool there either. Microsoft keeps prompting me to add an account to Windows 10 and won't even let you activate a new computer without an MS account now unless you physically disconnect from the internet (https://helpdeskgeek.com/windows-10/how-to-setup-windows-10-without-a-microsoft-account/). I hate this direction for hardware you ostensibly own.
Didn't the Switch (or was it the Wiiu?) have the problem of not being able to carry over an account/saves from one machine to the next?
But i agree with the general sentiment.

If you're not just transferring between two pieces of hardware, you had to literally call and beg Nintendo or show them a police theft report to redownload your games on DSi, 3DS, Wii, and Wii U because they’re locked to the hardware and not just your account  :miyamoto
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Tasty on April 20, 2021, 11:50:24 AM
3DS and Wii U had full system transfer support since Nintendo still hadn't figured out how online accounts and digital content management worked together.

I used it on multiple 3DS systems (I mean who didn't upgrade to the New 3DS or whatever), and did the Wii VC import on Wii U when I got that.

https://en-americas-support.nintendo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/27394/~/how-to-transfer-user-and-save-data

I think the local save situation on Switch still kinda sucks. You need to have created a Nintendo Account to complete the system transfer apparently.

Didn't the Switch (or was it the Wiiu?) have the problem of not being able to carry over an account/saves from one machine to the next?

I'm tired of attempted gotchas like this tbh. Did I ever say that was a good thing?
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on April 20, 2021, 01:14:06 PM
My entire Steam library still works (as far as I know anyway).

So I'm not that worried about digital PC games.
Consoles is a different matter. My physical copy of Super Mario 3D All-Stars will likely still work in 10, 20 or even 30 years if I can find a working Switch.
Not sure if people that bought the digital version will have the same luxury once Nintendo shuts down this 'iteration' of the eShop.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Tasty on April 20, 2021, 01:18:07 PM
My entire Steam library still works (as far as I know anyway).

So I'm not that worried about digital PC games.
Consoles is a different matter. My physical copy of Super Mario 3D All-Stars will likely still work in 10, 20 or even 30 years if I can find a working Switch.
Not sure if people that bought the digital version will have the same luxury once Nintendo shuts down this 'iteration' of the eShop.

And this is why I broke my digital-only rule for that one game. :lol

Being able to redownload Switch eShop games will likely continue for 5-10 years after the eShop stops accepting new purchases based on prior systems. And I honestly expect the Switch "platform" to stay around for a long time due to the move to ARM, which means the eShop should be around for a while too. But this prediction could be wrong.

Just like the Sony CMOS issue, servers don't stay online forever and companies don't stay solvent forever. Nothing about the future is really guaranteed. It's a good thing this kind of tech wasn't available to Kodak back in the day.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Svejk on April 20, 2021, 02:41:04 PM
My entire Steam library still works (as far as I know anyway).

So I'm not that worried about digital PC games.
Consoles is a different matter. My physical copy of Super Mario 3D All-Stars will likely still work in 10, 20 or even 30 years if I can find a working Switch.
Not sure if people that bought the digital version will have the same luxury once Nintendo shuts down this 'iteration' of the eShop.
Let's be honest.. Nintendo will sell all these games to everyone again in less than 10 years, on a new system, at an even higher price, and even more people will buy it because they're suckers, so it doesn't matter.  It's the Nintendo way.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Don Rumata on April 20, 2021, 03:49:13 PM
I'm tired of attempted gotchas like this tbh. Did I ever say that was a good thing?
Calm your tits Tasty, it was a genuine question, i even said i agree with the general sentiment.
I remembered the WiiU situation BIONIC described, that's all.

My general opinion about game preservation is that it's a lost cause.
Even taking into consideration wild dreams of piracy, online integration nowadays is so intrinsic to the experience, that it's just not realistic to think you'll be playing these games 20 years from now.
Might as well consider them as some kind of live performance, you can capture a video of it, but not the experience itself.
So i'm not shocked that game companies don't give a shit about your PS4 library 10 years from now.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 20, 2021, 03:50:52 PM
cindi

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EzX8nVxVkAI-q54?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)

anyway, you can replace your cmos battery in a ps4 just like you would a pc's. how would you recommend a device keeping it's date/time when unplugged without using a CMOS? guess it sucks the console is all but bricked without it or an internet connection, but the fix is extremely simple and only something you'd have to do every 10 to 20 years. all for complaining about stuff, but this seems like a bit of a non event.

Huh? But MS invests in BC. Why should I care? The problem with Sony's CMOS issue is that they don't give a fuck about BC, which necessitates keeping their own systems around. Will PS6 have PS4 bc? Doubt it! MS doesn't have that problem.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Tuckers Law on April 20, 2021, 03:58:26 PM
Because of how Sony handles their legacy games right now, I don’t give a flying fuck if I do a bunch of rom grabs.  Make the library of easily emulatable games available on your current platforms and I’ll pay for them, you slimy cunts.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on April 20, 2021, 05:35:16 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EzbSE31XoAMU-_t?format=jpg)

Microsoft keeps promoting the Nintendo Switch  :thinking
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: mormapope on April 20, 2021, 06:06:09 PM
Most likely: xcloud on Switch, Game Pass on Switch

Likely: Master Chief Collection on Switch, Rare Replay, Forza Horizon 4

Not gonna happen but would cause meltdowns: full blown partnership and collaboration between Microsoft and Nintendo. Xbox gets Nintendo games, Nintendo gets Xbox Live and all services attached to it.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: paprikastaude on April 20, 2021, 06:22:30 PM
MS is doing fan service because they lost the generation, but when they were successful they wanted to limit how you play even new physical games. i.e. All this can completely change every few years. And tbf, the more you talk about preservation, the less I like how MS does it. Because it all relies on downloads instead of actual things you have. It's absolutely nice that they are remastering some games and giving you the downloads you for free if you have a disc. But that seems like a bonus feature that skips the most important part, i.e. have all your old shit running first without anything fancy attached. Now "bc" just concerns a small percentage of their old games portfolio. Even on 360 you can't just pop an OG XB disc in, but download a file first.

I'm tired of attempted gotchas like this tbh. Did I ever say that was a good thing?
My general opinion about game preservation is that it's a lost cause.
Even taking into consideration wild dreams of piracy, online integration nowadays is so intrinsic to the experience, that it's just not realistic to think you'll be playing these games 20 years from now.
Might as well consider them as some kind of live performance, you can capture a video of it, but not the experience itself.
So i'm not shocked that game companies don't give a shit about your PS4 library 10 years from now.

Maybe that's true another generation from now when everything goes Gamepass, but currently that's overly dramatic. There's no doubt you will be able to play current games until discs decay, at least PS4 titles. Not so much digitally, but then again, even on Steam I consider everything I have a play permission at best. But physical PS4 games already work without the internal clock on PS5. It's apparently super simple to remove that restriction on PS4 too. If Sony for some weird reason decides to turn the switch back on for PS5 and then also refuses to update the PS4 firmware when the problems start, then I'm sure there quickly will be someone out of 120 million PS4 users to make an idiot-safe instant-hack in a day. You might be concerned for the lack of patches in the future, but out of like 200+ HD games I'd played (unpatched), there's been less than five I considered unplayable or too rough. The biggest deficit will be DLC.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 20, 2021, 06:51:12 PM
MS is doing fan service because they lost the generation, but when they were successful they wanted to limit how you play even new physical games. i.e. All this can completely change every few years. And tbf, the more you talk about preservation, the less I like how MS does it. Because it all relies on downloads instead of actual things you have. It's absolutely nice that they are remastering some games and giving you the downloads you for free if you have a disc. But that seems like a bonus feature that skips the most important part, i.e. have all your old shit running first without anything fancy attached. Now "bc" just concerns a small percentage of their old games portfolio. Even on 360 you can't just pop an OG XB disc in, but download a file first.

I'm tired of attempted gotchas like this tbh. Did I ever say that was a good thing?
My general opinion about game preservation is that it's a lost cause.
Even taking into consideration wild dreams of piracy, online integration nowadays is so intrinsic to the experience, that it's just not realistic to think you'll be playing these games 20 years from now.
Might as well consider them as some kind of live performance, you can capture a video of it, but not the experience itself.
So i'm not shocked that game companies don't give a shit about your PS4 library 10 years from now.

Maybe that's true another generation from now when everything goes Gamepass, but currently that's overly dramatic. There's no doubt you will be able to play current games until discs decay, at least PS4 titles. Not so much digitally, but then again, even on Steam I consider everything I have a play permission at best. But physical PS4 games already work without the internal clock on PS5. It's apparently super simple to remove that restriction on PS4 too. If Sony for some weird reason decides to turn the switch back on for PS5 and then also refuses to update the PS4 firmware when the problems start, then I'm sure there quickly will be someone out of 120 million PS4 users to make an idiot-safe instant-hack in a day. You might be concerned for the lack of patches in the future, but out of like 200+ HD games I'd played (unpatched), there's been less than five I considered unplayable or too rough. The biggest deficit will be DLC.

Really bad point to make. It's like you just finally solved the riddle to video games. I hope that statement doesn't make me sound like a jerk. I don't mean it like that, but the reality is this applies to any console maker. They're always begging and listing good reasons to join them when they're down or on the way up. But once they're on that high they chase it straight to Gravy Town and get fat on their own chewy arrogance. It always happens to every company. We saw it with Sony with ps3, Nintendo with N64, and MS with Xbone. They always show their ass and then have a big, ugly spill. Once they get up, they brush their knees off, and beg for scraps till they're on top again.

Will happen with Sony once they've experienced their next down.

Will happen to Nintendo.

And yes, it will also happen with Microsoft.

This is why I don't get myself overly committed to a hardware manufacturer although it's obvious my preference is Sony. A lesson learned from being a prior Sega kid.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: naff on April 20, 2021, 07:10:05 PM
Quote
this is just how modern consumer tech works m8s.

This is such a bullshit cop-out lol.

why? walled gardens, vendor lock-in, drm, built-in obsolescence. every software and hardware company, especially the ones we're discussing, engages in these practices. sony might be the worst? idk, the criteria seems vague. i could point out a host of issues with every platform.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: paprikastaude on April 20, 2021, 07:14:32 PM
MS is doing fan service because they lost the generation, but when they were successful they wanted to limit how you play even new physical games. i.e. All this can completely change every few years. And tbf, the more you talk about preservation, the less I like how MS does it. Because it all relies on downloads instead of actual things you have. It's absolutely nice that they are remastering some games and giving you the downloads you for free if you have a disc. But that seems like a bonus feature that skips the most important part, i.e. have all your old shit running first without anything fancy attached. Now "bc" just concerns a small percentage of their old games portfolio. Even on 360 you can't just pop an OG XB disc in, but download a file first.

I'm tired of attempted gotchas like this tbh. Did I ever say that was a good thing?
My general opinion about game preservation is that it's a lost cause.
Even taking into consideration wild dreams of piracy, online integration nowadays is so intrinsic to the experience, that it's just not realistic to think you'll be playing these games 20 years from now.
Might as well consider them as some kind of live performance, you can capture a video of it, but not the experience itself.
So i'm not shocked that game companies don't give a shit about your PS4 library 10 years from now.

Maybe that's true another generation from now when everything goes Gamepass, but currently that's overly dramatic. There's no doubt you will be able to play current games until discs decay, at least PS4 titles. Not so much digitally, but then again, even on Steam I consider everything I have a play permission at best. But physical PS4 games already work without the internal clock on PS5. It's apparently super simple to remove that restriction on PS4 too. If Sony for some weird reason decides to turn the switch back on for PS5 and then also refuses to update the PS4 firmware when the problems start, then I'm sure there quickly will be someone out of 120 million PS4 users to make an idiot-safe instant-hack in a day. You might be concerned for the lack of patches in the future, but out of like 200+ HD games I'd played (unpatched), there's been less than five I considered unplayable or too rough. The biggest deficit will be DLC.

Really bad point to make. It's like you just finally solved the riddle to video games. I hope that statement doesn't make me sound like a jerk. I don't mean it like that, but the reality is this applies to any console maker. They're always begging and listing good reasons to join them when they're down or on the way up. But once they're on that high they chase it straight to Gravy Town and get fat on their own chewy arrogance. It always happens to every company. We saw it with Sony with ps3, Nintendo with N64, and MS with Xbone. They always show their ass and then have a big, ugly spill. Once they get up, they brush their knees off, and beg for scraps till they're on top again.

Will happen with Sony once they've experienced their next down.

Will happen to Nintendo.

And yes, it will also happen with Microsoft.

This is why I don't get myself overly committed to a hardware manufacturer although it's obvious my preference is Sony. A lesson learned from being a prior Sega kid.

That's what I'm saying, so I don't see the point in trusting MS for a theoretical future proof strategy that could change any other year. They care about BC now. When it matters even more in the future? Maybe. Or not. It's even more moot if you look at what their bc is. Ok, I'll take Banjo Kazooie HD and 4K Ninja Gaiden, that's nice. But that's just a couple of games out of thousands that won't be remastered individually. And those few are still depending on an online service that current leadership deems worthy, while they don't actually seem to step away from all these online setups required on XBones. As more details emerge around all these things, I'm actually feeling safer about my PS4 collection.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Tasty on April 20, 2021, 07:18:31 PM
Quote
this is just how modern consumer tech works m8s.

This is such a bullshit cop-out lol.

why? walled gardens, vendor lock-in, drm, built-in obsolescence. every software and hardware company, especially the ones we're discussing, engages in these practices. sony might be the worst? idk, the criteria seems vague. i could point out a host of issues with every platform.

So let's not fix any of them! Wonderful defeatism. ;)
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: naff on April 20, 2021, 07:19:38 PM
That's what I'm saying, so I don't see the point in giving MS credit for a theoretical future proof strategy that could change any other year. They care about BC now. When it matters even more in the future? Maybe. Or not. It's even more moot if you actually look at what their bc is. Ok, I'll take Banjo Kazooie HD and 4K Ninja Gaiden, that's nice. But that's just a couple of games out of thousands that won't be remastered individually. And they are all depending on an online service that current leadership deems worthy, while they don't actually seem to step away from all these online setups required on XBones. As more details emerge around all these things, I'm actually feeling safer about my PS4 collection.

idk, i think sony and m$ will probably continue to offer bc because it will simply be a lot easier in future with how strong virtualization tech is and how much they've both invested in it. esp m$. that said, wouldn't be surprised if it becomes more spotty when either/both move away from x86 architecture again (inevitable).
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Tasty on April 20, 2021, 07:24:18 PM
Calm your tits Tasty, it was a genuine question, i even said i agree with the general sentiment.

But what's the point in asking that question at that point in the discussion? Should we start bringing 64DD and Setallaview into things too? :thinking

My tits became agitated because if bork or Cindi had posted that post on trophies, would you have even thought to bring up the Wii U and 3DS in your reply? My belief is no.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: naff on April 20, 2021, 07:26:54 PM
tbh, the issues with nintendo's historic and current atrocious record regarding digital purchases is one of the first things that comes to mind when thinking about drm in the context of game companies. you say this like pointing that out is a discriminatory tactic lol.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 20, 2021, 07:28:12 PM
I managed to transfer my stuff from old 3ds to New 3ds with ease.

Spieler, but that's just it. Xbone had great BC too even upon launch when it was a dud. I think it's just something important to MS, period.

Trophiss are dumb and I haven't paid attention to them since Jet Set Radio HD when I tore the game apart on Steam. I really only care about it in specific games and that's the last time I did because JSR is a game I've mastered and i had tons of fun with. I do want to get the rest of the achievements for Dark Souls 1 and Shenmue 1 and 2 HD, though.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: naff on April 20, 2021, 07:31:29 PM
there are maybe 1 or 2 companies in the world capable of competing with m$ on that level. virtualization tech is more important to m$ bottom line than the entire xbox brand. expecting sony to compete with ms on that level is a little wild imo
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: paprikastaude on April 20, 2021, 07:38:20 PM
Thinking about it, the MS "BC" feels like another slow drip Virtual Console, except it has discounts for collectors. Which is again, kind of cool, no objection to Ninja Gaiden Black in 4K or whatever, especially if it's free if you already have it on your shelves. But just like Virtual Console, it feels like another batch of game permissions that will go away quicker than my discs and carts will ever rot. That's not really what I want, nor providing me with a feeling of security. My PS4 discs seemingly working on PS5 unpatched is the kind of thing that does that. Except that they need to to fucking check some boxes already and add those PS1 and PS2 emulators they already had on a dozen other platforms on top of it. I don't want to activate some download permission, even if Xbox does it a little better than Nintendo's VC. Even if it comes with higher def and achievements. I just want to play whatever is new, but when it's a special occassion, like Halloween or something, pop in Silent Hill 1 from my shelve and play that on the same machine for a night. Like on PS3.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 20, 2021, 07:39:43 PM
there are maybe 1 or 2 companies in the world capable of competing with m$ on that level. virtualization tech is more important to m$ bottom line than the entire xbox brand. expecting sony to compete with ms on that level is a little wild imo

I never said I did? I don't expect Sony to compete but they're not offering any alternatives either. They don't respect their history but they also don't push for BC. If you don't care about BC, that's cool. Nintendo seemingly doesn't either. But at least care about their *history*, which Nintendo obviously does. Why continue to invest in the PlayStation brand if they don't care?

Finally, PS1 (and by extension PS2) is not hard to implement into these systems.

This honestly sounds like the Sony bootlicking I've read elsewhere.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on April 20, 2021, 08:00:07 PM
Most likely: xcloud on Switch, Game Pass on Switch

Likely: Master Chief Collection on Switch, Rare Replay, Forza Horizon 4

Not gonna happen but would cause meltdowns: full blown partnership and collaboration between Microsoft and Nintendo. Xbox gets Nintendo games, Nintendo gets Xbox Live and all services attached to it.
My money is on xcloud. I don't see how Game Pass would work unless they completely overhaul their specs.
Not to mention the confusion with indie gams that are both on Game Pass and the eShop. Switch already has a bunch of Gefore Now cloud games like CONTROL so it fits.

Outside of an 8-bit Super Mario Bros. ROM as part of some partnership I don't see Nintendo releasing any games on Xbox in the forseeable future.

Rare Replay is not even on PC, so I don't see a Switch port of that happening either. Not easy to port Perfect Dark Zero, Viva Pinata and Nuts & Bolts to Switch.
Forza Horizon and/or Master Chief Collection could be possible. I just don't see them set-up a Switch development group to port 1 or 2 games.

The least interesting explanation is that Microsoft is displaying the Switch because it runs Minecraft and a bunch of Bethesda games they now own.
And maybe they're planning to port more Bethesda games to Switch (or those plans were already made prior to them buying Bethesda)
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on April 20, 2021, 08:16:58 PM
Really bad point to make. It's like you just finally solved the riddle to video games. I hope that statement doesn't make me sound like a jerk. I don't mean it like that, but the reality is this applies to any console maker. They're always begging and listing good reasons to join them when they're down or on the way up. But once they're on that high they chase it straight to Gravy Town and get fat on their own chewy arrogance. It always happens to every company. We saw it with Sony with ps3, Nintendo with N64, and MS with Xbone. They always show their ass and then have a big, ugly spill. Once they get up, they brush their knees off, and beg for scraps till they're on top again.

Will happen with Sony once they've experienced their next down.

Will happen to Nintendo.

And yes, it will also happen with Microsoft.

This is why I don't get myself overly committed to a hardware manufacturer although it's obvious my preference is Sony. A lesson learned from being a prior Sega kid.
I dunno, I feel like they've moved to a point that console generations are sort of fluid and their business model is resistant enough to not be put down by a single failed console.
Nintendo might move down from their current 'high' but their baseline will be much higher than the GameCube / N64 days considering how they've expanded and strengthened their IP's beyond games and continue to do so.
They've just locked in another generation or 2 with the Switch. All those kiddo's grow up with Nintendo IP's and pass the torch.

Sony has millions of PS4 owners who will eventually upgrade to PS5 unless something 'crazy' happens. Some might not bite at $599 and with these low supplies but once prices get closer to $299 they'll gobble up the same market they've always had.
Playing with friends and online communities who also go with PlayStation as their default console of choice plays a big part in this. They might take a hit in Japan but I don't see Sony losing the crown in the US or EU anytime soon.

For Sony and Nintendo there is no Atari or SEGA like risk in the forseeable future. Business models have expanded and gaming is as popular as ever and a very crisis resistant product that offers 'cheap' escapism for many.
Sony Corp is more at risk because of their other ventures but let's face it, Nintendo will exist longer than any of us  :doge
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Tasty on April 20, 2021, 08:28:13 PM
I'm reading Hit & Run right now by Kim Masters and Nancy Griffin, and it's really entertaining see Sony get taken for an absolute ride in the 80's. Hopefully they learned from those mistakes. :lol
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: benjipwns on April 20, 2021, 08:37:13 PM
I was reading some stuff from like, 1994, recently and there were so many Betamax comparisons made as to why Sony was going to fail with the PlayStation. Plus their bad purchases in the 80's.

The same was raised when there was the DVD debate around the same time. I had forgot there even was a competition between two formats for DVD. (But that was resolved almost peacefully compared to other times although IIRC we did get the DVD-R and DVD+R out of it.)
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Don Rumata on April 21, 2021, 06:43:49 AM
Calm your tits Tasty, it was a genuine question, i even said i agree with the general sentiment.

But what's the point in asking that question at that point in the discussion? Should we start bringing 64DD and Setallaview into things too? :thinking

My tits became agitated because if bork or Cindi had posted that post on trophies, would you have even thought to bring up the Wii U and 3DS in your reply? My belief is no.

I genuinely don't know what this implies, that i have a beef against you or against Nintendo?  ???
The former just isn't true, the latter is, but i also hate MS and Sony equally.  :-*
I also can't stand Steam, Oculus, Twitter, Facebook, Apple, Amazon, Wacom, Adobe... come to think of it, i hate a lot of companies. :thinking

I brought it up because the ability to retain you library was relevant to the idea of retaining your purchases past your immediate hardware's life span.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 21, 2021, 08:46:03 AM

https://twitter.com/AndreaPichinini/status/1384663664121241600
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Svejk on April 21, 2021, 09:07:53 AM
 :popcorn
limiting resolution?  Sounds like Sony's getting a lockdown on PSVR2 support in the near future.  :win   If so, I would be against this too, if RE7VR wasn't so fucking awesome.

Only now is Cap all but officially announced RE7 is getting their next gen upgrade here shortly too (next week possibly).  All in due time.

MS buys studios, Sony money hats timed exclusives and Nintendo just Nintendos.   Sounds like a recipe for a epic rap battle of history.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Pissy F Benny on April 21, 2021, 09:15:37 AM
soyny :pacspit
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Svejk on April 21, 2021, 10:49:20 AM
Should be pointing the finger at Capcom, not Sony... They're the ones that accepted the bags of money Sony offered them to lock it lower.  Capcom could've chose to laugh them out of the room like Nintendo did to MS back in the day, but they said "sure" instead.

Don't hate the player, hate the game.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 21, 2021, 11:08:18 AM
Should be pointing the finger at Capcom, not Sony... They're the ones that accepted the bags of money Sony offered them to lock it lower.  Capcom could've chose to laugh them out of the room like Nintendo did to MS back in the day, but they said "sure" instead.

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

Pease stop.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Tuckers Law on April 21, 2021, 12:36:16 PM
Is that verified as genuine?
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: paprikastaude on April 21, 2021, 01:00:24 PM
https://twitter.com/ZhugeEX/status/1384781239748599809
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 21, 2021, 01:02:55 PM
Noting every single game that interests me to see if it's on X.

:rejoice

This fall I get XSX. :rejoice
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Svejk on April 21, 2021, 01:15:24 PM
https://twitter.com/JezCorden/status/1384878863189164035

 :leon that's more than I expected.  Not sure if source is true, but this is clearly The boner's trojan horse if so.  If Sony's new thing they're gonna reveal is anywhere similar, they're gonna need it to be in order to compete with GP.  Depending on what MS does with Bethesda IP's and keep GP available for PC, I'll bite down the road most likely.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 21, 2021, 01:27:02 PM
Was going to get a ps5 and play ps4 games in better resolution with ps4 pro additions. Was looking forward to playing games like RE2, RE3, RE7 and 8 on PS5. Now I'll get them all on X! New Tales also coming to Series X and Judgement too! AHAHAHA

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2FkXY0CA4v8mKXe%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1&nofb=1)

Nier Automata is also on Xbox. I have it on PS4 but I'll rebuy when I can. :)

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2F5xaOcLGvzHxDKjufnLW%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1&nofb=1)

I think 13 Sentinels and stuff like Ace Combat 7  will be the final PS4 games I get. We will see. Oh wait, AC7 is also on Xbox! AHAHAHAHA I'M FREEE!
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Rahxephon91 on April 21, 2021, 01:34:06 PM
Please stop.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Rahxephon91 on April 21, 2021, 01:52:24 PM
Should be pointing the finger at Capcom, not Sony... They're the ones that accepted the bags of money Sony offered them to lock it lower.  Capcom could've chose to laugh them out of the room like Nintendo did to MS back in the day, but they said "sure" instead.

Don't hate the player, hate the game.
Isn't Rise exclusive and then later only on PC because Nintendo paid them? Didn’t they also pay to keep it off the Vita back then?

Strange that doesn’t bother certain gamers but this does. :kermit



Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 21, 2021, 01:58:07 PM
I'm really trying to see what it'd take to migrate my ps4 collection to Xbone for most of my favorites at least like Dark Souls Trilogy and Sekiro.

MH World is also on Xbox! *dances*

My shift from the PS ecosystem might be way easier than I thought. :) Main concern is arcade stick.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on April 21, 2021, 02:06:58 PM
I'm really trying to see what it'd take to migrate my ps4 collection to Xbone for most of my favorites at least like Dark Souls Trilogy and Sekiro.

MH World is also on Xbox! *dances*

My shift from the PS ecosystem might be way easier than I thought. :) Main concern is arcade stick.

Can't recommend that you don't do this -and just move to PC, keeping the PS4, instead- enough.  Forget about the physical stuff; it doesn't matter when you still have to full-install everything and download updates.  You seem to be mainly into Japanese games.  Xbox is not going to be the way to go.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Beezy on April 21, 2021, 02:13:41 PM
Noting every single game that interests me to see if it's on X.

:rejoice

This fall I get XSX. :rejoice
You're not interested in Guilty Gear Strive?
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 21, 2021, 02:14:37 PM
Strive will be on PC :rejoice
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 21, 2021, 02:17:05 PM
Speaking of arcade sticks. The stick I'm planning on buying and tricking out supports Xbox Series X/PS4/PS3/Xbox One/Xbox 360/Nintendo Switch/PC

Yes, yes, yes, yes! I'm feeling good feeling about this move. :rejoice
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Tuckers Law on April 21, 2021, 02:20:11 PM
I’d be fully recommending the same except for one really unfortunate problem at the moment: pc hardware prices are out of control fucking bonkers at the moment, and I doubt they’ll normalize anytime this year.  If you can get most of what you want with a series s or x and don’t want to wait all that long, I feel likes it’s an alright purchase as a stopgap.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Rahxephon91 on April 21, 2021, 02:36:05 PM
So because of an issue, you have convinced is bigger than it is, you're going to change plans and also rebuy all your games and switch to a console that also may have issues in the far future.

ok.

Strive is on PC? Yeah so is everything the Xbox offers.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on April 21, 2021, 02:43:06 PM
I’d be fully recommending the same except for one really unfortunate problem at the moment: pc hardware prices are out of control fucking bonkers at the moment, and I doubt they’ll normalize anytime this year.  If you can get most of what you want with a series s or x and don’t want to wait all that long, I feel likes it’s an alright purchase as a stopgap.

IIRC Cindi is interested in a new laptop (and might have already gotten it?) where this isn't as much of an issue.

Definitely glad I pulled the trigger early and got a new desktop PC a few months ago.  Paid a normal price for it whereas now the same setup would cost a good $1500 more.
:whew
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: MMaRsu on April 21, 2021, 02:46:15 PM
Yeah im pretty happy I got my RTX 3070 at fucking launch for 649 euros, which seemed like a lot of money at the time but now its like double that price
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: mormapope on April 21, 2021, 02:47:22 PM
https://youtu.be/ymVMyUCxwQQ
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 21, 2021, 02:47:48 PM
I’d be fully recommending the same except for one really unfortunate problem at the moment: pc hardware prices are out of control fucking bonkers at the moment, and I doubt they’ll normalize anytime this year.  If you can get most of what you want with a series s or x and don’t want to wait all that long, I feel likes it’s an alright purchase as a stopgap.

IIRC Cindi is interested in a new laptop (and might have already gotten it?) where this isn't as much of an issue.

Nah, need more time.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 21, 2021, 02:54:41 PM
So because of an issue, you have convinced is bigger than it is, you're going to change plans and also rebuy all your games and switch to a console that also may have issues in the far future.

ok.

Strive is on PC? Yeah so is everything the Xbox offers.

You're thinking too hard on PC Strive thing. Even if I were getting a ps5, I would still get Strive on PC. BTW, Strive is also on PS4, a system I already have. I'm getting it there because that's what the players I want to play with are going to play on. In fighting games, most players have migrated to PC already. People can't stand playing on PSN. If I asked friends to play me in Xrd on PS4 they'd groan. So I'm not interested in playing fighting games on consoles to begin with.

Also, my plans haven't changed. I'm just switching the system. It's also an issue I care about.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on April 21, 2021, 03:08:47 PM
In fighting games, most players have migrated to PC already.

:confused
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 21, 2021, 03:09:54 PM
In fighting games, most players have migrated to PC already.

:confused

The players I play with at least. My group and people I play with play on PC. Doesn't matter the game or community: 3S, ST, GG, Tekken. They all prefer PC. The entire rollback thing from the past year is a big example. GG +R and KOF02 have been having a massive revival. Why? Rollback. Where? PC. The PC playing FG community is fucking huge.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Tasty on April 21, 2021, 03:11:00 PM
Calm your tits Tasty, it was a genuine question, i even said i agree with the general sentiment.

But what's the point in asking that question at that point in the discussion? Should we start bringing 64DD and Setallaview into things too? :thinking

My tits became agitated because if bork or Cindi had posted that post on trophies, would you have even thought to bring up the Wii U and 3DS in your reply? My belief is no.

I genuinely don't know what this implies, that i have a beef against you or against Nintendo?  ???
The former just isn't true, the latter is, but i also hate MS and Sony equally.  :-*
I also can't stand Steam, Oculus, Twitter, Facebook, Apple, Amazon, Wacom, Adobe... come to think of it, i hate a lot of companies. :thinking

I brought it up because the ability to retain you library was relevant to the idea of retaining your purchases past your immediate hardware's life span.

You're fine, I apologize, was having a moment and been trying not to have thoughts like that as much these days. :insane
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on April 21, 2021, 03:12:31 PM
In fighting games, most players have migrated to PC already.

:confused

The players I play with at least. My group and people I play with play on PC. Doesn't matter the game or community: 3S, ST, GG, Tekken. They all prefer PC. The entire rollback thing from the past year is a big example. GG +R and KOF02 have been having a massive revival. Why? Rollback. Where? PC. The PC playing FG community is fucking huge.

-The people you like to play with game on PC.
-All the games you're interested in are on PC.
-Everything on Xbox is also on PC.

...Why do you want an Xbox again?
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 21, 2021, 03:13:39 PM
-The people you like to play with game on PC.
-All the games you're interested in are on PC.
-Everything on Xbox is also on PC.

...Why do you want an Xbox again?

Because fighting games aren't the only genre I play, I prefer physical, and generally also prefer consoles. Fighting games are also not that resource heavy.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on April 21, 2021, 03:14:58 PM
Yeah im pretty happy I got my RTX 3070 at fucking launch for 649 euros, which seemed like a lot of money at the time but now its like double that price
That's what you would pay for a  GTX 1660 or RX580 now, if you can find one and that's a big if  :doge

If I would've known this I would've jumped at a 3070 at those prices too and just sold my 2070 Super.
Thank the lord I have it though  :whew
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: MMaRsu on April 21, 2021, 03:17:08 PM
It cant be that much lmao... I saw some shit cards having 250 bids tho..

shouldnt have sold my 1060 3gb for 125 when I got this card but eh fuck it
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on April 21, 2021, 03:18:21 PM
-The people you like to play with game on PC.
-All the games you're interested in are on PC.
-Everything on Xbox is also on PC.

...Why do you want an Xbox again?

Because fighting games aren't the only genre I play, I prefer physical, and generally also prefer consoles. Fighting games are also not that resource heavy.

It's pretty clear that you've made up your mind.  Just hope you don't regret it when something you want inevitably comes out for Playstation that's not on Xbox or the FGC decides to go with PS5 for local play.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on April 21, 2021, 03:25:40 PM
It cant be that much lmao... I saw some shit cards having 250 bids tho..

shouldnt have sold my 1060 3gb for 125 when I got this card but eh fuck it
I wish I was joking

(https://abload.de/img/lmaokfjc6.jpg)

spoiler (click to show/hide)
(https://abload.de/img/lmao2omjnf.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 21, 2021, 03:31:45 PM
-The people you like to play with game on PC.
-All the games you're interested in are on PC.
-Everything on Xbox is also on PC.

...Why do you want an Xbox again?

Because fighting games aren't the only genre I play, I prefer physical, and generally also prefer consoles. Fighting games are also not that resource heavy.

It's pretty clear that you've made up your mind.  Just hope you don't regret it when something you want inevitably comes out for Playstation that's not on Xbox or the FGC decides to go with PS5 for local play.

Can you name a single noteworthy fighting game not available on PC? Street Fighter V is on PS4 but it's also on PC. I'm not sure what your point you're trying to make. At most, I'd have to get an arcade stick that supports PS5 support.

I'm showing I'm willing to play on PC, but not make it my main platform. Take Demons Souls. It's on PS5, yes. But it's also coming to PC. Although I don't want to mainly game on PC (outside of fighting games), I'm willing to do so if I catch a game not available on Switch or Xbox. Since most games on PS4 are also on PC, this mitigates damage without me having to fully commit to the mostly digital platform of PC.

Pretty bizarre suggestion to want to make me commit to PC, a mostly digital platform, when we have been talking about Sony closing their PS store for multiple systems. This move is made specfically so I can maximize my return in my physical games mattering. Since Sony doesn't care I will not invest in their products going forward. On Xbox I can play my actual Ninja Gaiden Black disc with a current gen Xbox in 2021. The only reason I am willing to play FGs on PC is because 1. people i play with and 2. with season passes fighting games these days are mostly digital products and getting out the discs as you play multiple games (as I do on PS4) is tedious as fuck. Because of this I'm willing to relegate one specific genre that I already view as digital to an all digital platform.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Rahxephon91 on April 21, 2021, 03:48:00 PM
If this whole cmos issue is such a big deal to you and your concerned that one day possibly the authentication server, why aren’t you worried by the Series X needling an online authentication for BC games, even disc. So why isn’t that a big issue? 
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Svejk on April 21, 2021, 03:52:50 PM
Although there's a multitude of reasons mentioned for going elsewhere, just seemed rather an abrupt change of heart because of one thing Sony announced then rolled back a week later.  It never even came to fruition.  I agree with bork.. don't think other bullshit like that Sony stuff won't happen elsewhere. Only a matter of time.  :doge
But if you're content and feel good about your gaming plans, more power to you.  :) It's a good feeling I strive for too.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Svejk on April 21, 2021, 03:55:42 PM
It cant be that much lmao... I saw some shit cards having 250 bids tho..

shouldnt have sold my 1060 3gb for 125 when I got this card but eh fuck it
I wish I was joking

(https://abload.de/img/lmaokfjc6.jpg)

spoiler (click to show/hide)
(https://abload.de/img/lmao2omjnf.jpg)
[close]
Shit is nuts! I feel more and more lucky I got what I got when I got it. 
(1080 3GB)
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 21, 2021, 04:05:17 PM
If this whole cmos issue is such a big deal to you and your concerned that one day possibly the authentication server, why aren’t you worried by the Series X needling an online authentication for BC games, even disc. So why isn’t that a big issue?

Because I did not know that until you told me.

For me it's the perfect storm of CMOS, PS3/PSP/Vita storefront debacle, PS5 not having support for PSX or 2 (a very simple thing to implement these days especially on PS5's level of tech), and PlayStation's CEO himself questioning the validity of old games. That's quite a combination! Further, 70 dollar games is quite an ask!

And thanks to years of being a Sega kid, I learned at a young age to be quickly able to throw away your gaming masters and trade him for a new one. For me, faith in a corporation or product can be lost literally overnight. I went into E3 2006 a mostly Sony fan, I went out Team Wii60. I can pinpoint the overall trend in a corporation pretty quickly and know that PlayStation has little to give me for the foreseeable future.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Rahxephon91 on April 21, 2021, 04:24:33 PM
And what is Xbox offering?

Did you also predict the trend where 360 threw away first party and went kinnct focused?

Or that PS3 would course correct?

Or that the Wii would double down on things like Wii music?
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 21, 2021, 04:39:00 PM
And what is Xbox offering?

Did you also predict the trend where 360 threw away first party and went kinnct focused?

Or that PS3 would course correct?

Or that the Wii would double down on things like Wii music?

Xbox is offering about the same as other platforms. They're also preserving things I care about, making relationships with Japanese developers (Kojima Mikami), and have been on a good pr roll of good ideas lately.

I did not know but I'm generally able to get a good lock on where  system is heading. Ever since my foray with Sega ended I have picked up a knack for choosing the right players for that particular generation. PSX, PS2, Wii 360, then PS4. These picks were all the right moves. That's not to say their competition weren't buying, as I bought an N64, Dreamcast, Gamecube, Xbox, PS3 eventually. But let's be honest. PS3 sucked until Slim (when I did get a ps3). That was at least 3-4 years of the PS3 sucking. Wii still had amazing original titles (Super Mario Galaxy was the best game that generation) despite whatever issues it had and was very worth owning.

I always go with the winners at the time. Because of Sega I was quickly able to sense losers. I'm not the one that bought Wii U, unlike the rest of you. I'm the person that bet on Switch being banger - and it was. All the reasons I have given, plus the overall everything of PS5 (I don't like how big it is or how it even looks). This sense has never betrayed me and right now it tells me Sony is a loser.

I know gaming losers when I see them and...

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2FtBMToXvgvQhG0%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1&nofb=1)
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Rahxephon91 on April 21, 2021, 04:50:49 PM
Sony literally published and funded Kojima’s last deal and has a contract for Mikami’s next game. They still have plenty of relationships with Japanese companies and aren’t reforging them because they didn’t throw them away only to later need fodder for their sub service. They have near perfect PS4 BC not requiring any online system. They just don’t have a small library of PS3 games as BC.

But hey rationalize this how you want.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 21, 2021, 04:59:00 PM
https://gamerant.com/new-hideo-kojima-game-sony-ps5/

Also MS owns Tango Gameworks. It's coming to Series X. Not a big deal.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Don Rumata on April 21, 2021, 05:51:22 PM
Seems a bit of a stretch to call GhostWire Tokyo "Mikami's game".
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 21, 2021, 06:04:32 PM
The questions like "what is Microsoft offering?" just feels wrong.

There's Game Pass and there's stuff like this.

https://youtu.be/VCMcL9DhnY4

Smaller system, better BC, 1tb for 500 bucks, Game Pass, faster due to SSD, quick resume, has most of the same games as ps4/5. Can't be beat. What a package. Sony stans that think PS5 has already stolen the generation might be in for a ride. lol
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 21, 2021, 06:06:09 PM
Hahaha DQXIS is on Xbox too! :rejoice
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on April 21, 2021, 06:26:29 PM
Can you name a single noteworthy fighting game not available on PC? Street Fighter V is on PS4 but it's also on PC. I'm not sure what your point you're trying to make. At most, I'd have to get an arcade stick that supports PS5 support.

Are all the 'noteworthy' fighting games currently on PC?  Yes, outside of Virtua Fighter- but they didn't all release at the same time as they did on console.  Player bases are not as large for when you want to play randoms, too.  And then what about the platform?  If a game releases on EGS, it's like it's being sent to die.  See- SNK.  In fact, see SNK, who took months AND MONTHS to even bother patching Samurai Shodown, which didn't even run for a lot of people, myself included.  Just something to think about.

I'm showing I'm willing to play on PC, but not make it my main platform. Take Demons Souls. It's on PS5, yes. But it's also coming to PC.

Is it?  Don't forget that Sony said it wasn't and that was a mistake.

Pretty bizarre suggestion to want to make me commit to PC, a mostly digital platform, when we have been talking about Sony closing their PS store for multiple systems.

Physical is pointless for the current-gen consoles outside of the Switch, and this is coming from a dude who goes crazy-nutso buying physical games.  :P  Xbox isn't going to allow you to go back and play everything from the previous systems- they've just done a much better job than Sony has.  IIRC you still can't get DLC for O.G. XBox games (including patches) even if they're backwards-compatible. 

This is where PC wins over console- the games I bought on Steam in 2004 are still available for download on my PC today.  Not worried about "BC" here.  And then if something older doesn't work on newer hardware, even if the publishers or developers don't step in, the community will.

Anyway, I don't have some sort of hate-boner for XBox.  Quite the opposite, actually- I love that they have made it so that there's no reason for me to buy their hardware to play all their games. 
:jeb
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: MMaRsu on April 21, 2021, 06:34:59 PM
It cant be that much lmao... I saw some shit cards having 250 bids tho..

shouldnt have sold my 1060 3gb for 125 when I got this card but eh fuck it
I wish I was joking

(https://abload.de/img/lmaokfjc6.jpg)

spoiler (click to show/hide)
(https://abload.de/img/lmao2omjnf.jpg)
[close]

well thats new..
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on April 21, 2021, 06:39:14 PM
The potential for Xbox is there but believe me as someone who has been there with the 360 and Xbox One, they seldom live up to that potential.
With Microsoft you are always one Kinect away from some executive deciding that the company needs to change course and find a way to implement their latest toy into all their projects.

It happened with the Cloud(TM), UWP, Kinect, TV(R) and will happen again during this generation.
And those acquisitions mean nothing. Microsoft bought Nokia in 2013 for $7 billion to compete with iPhone and then had to write off the assets and fire thousands of people in 2015.

So buy an Xbox if you like the games on offer, the hardware and the feature set. But don't buy it for some 'roadmap' Microsoft is selling until it actually materializes.
Because ultimately that is a 'journey' to nothing.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Rahxephon91 on April 21, 2021, 06:47:23 PM
Eh nevermind
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: mormapope on April 21, 2021, 07:32:08 PM
My outlook is I have Series X for current gen AAA games and gamepass, a Switch for Nintendo games/JRPGs/Weeb stuff, and I'm going to build a PC for emulation and revisiting older games that haven't been ported or random indie games.

This hobby has a lot versatility with what platforms offer.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 21, 2021, 07:33:09 PM
My outlook is I have Series X for current gen AAA games and gamepass, a Switch for Nintendo games/JRPGs/Weeb stuff, and I'm going to build a PC for emulation and revisiting older games that haven't been ported or random indie games.

This hobby has a lot versatility with what platforms offer.

Exact same configuration.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 21, 2021, 07:52:05 PM
https://youtu.be/3Jb-5uGNqw8

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.tenor.com%2Fimages%2Fe527902047efe21a00c414e1086e05a9%2Ftenor.gif&f=1&nofb=1)

My gamer sense is tingling. I smell a loser.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: mormapope on April 21, 2021, 08:03:21 PM
A bigger conundrum this gen is what TV/Monitor to use and what features you wanna prioritize. I always fuck with budget stuff and try to get bang for my buck without spending too much.

At this point, 144HZ/240HZ is more alluring than 4K. Not many console games offer 120HZ as an option yet, but the ones that do plus freesync with 144/240HZ has impressed me way more than 4K. OLED tvs with decent HDR isn't something I've experienced, but gaming monitors right now are plentiful, are super cheap dollars wise, and offer amazing color and performance at the cost of grayish black levels.

https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/acer/nitro-xf243y-pbmiiprx

I got this recently and for $200 it's amazing.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Svejk on April 21, 2021, 08:35:28 PM
PS5 has Astrobot; one of the greatest 3D platformers in existence,  and the DualSense; The greatest controller to date with it's haptic responses and a d-pad rolled back to perfection like the OG PS controllers. Plus my hundreds of $$ spent on my PS library have now all been improved, breathing new life into the hundreds of games I have... All for $400..

No losing detected.
 :win
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on April 21, 2021, 10:34:40 PM
A bigger conundrum this gen is what TV/Monitor to use and what features you wanna prioritize. I always fuck with budget stuff and try to get bang for my buck without spending too much.

At this point, 144HZ/240HZ is more alluring than 4K. Not many console games offer 120HZ as an option yet, but the ones that do plus freesync with 144/240HZ has impressed me way more than 4K. OLED tvs with decent HDR isn't something I've experienced, but gaming monitors right now are plentiful, are super cheap dollars wise, and offer amazing color and performance at the cost of grayish black levels.

https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/acer/nitro-xf243y-pbmiiprx

I got this recently and for $200 it's amazing.

For PC, 1440P with at least 144hz is the sweet spot. 

For console gaming, I just spent a lot of time and went through like six different monitors/TVs trying to find what would suit me best!  Lotta returns going on.  :lol  I was going to go with an LG CX TV, too, but even the 48" model was unfortunately too big and heavy for the space it would have gone in and it didn't work out.  In the end, I wound up getting a 32" 1440P 240/270hz monitor to use as my main display, then took my 27" 1440P 144hz monitor and made that my secondary display/console gaming monitor.  If you get a 1440P monitor that can accept and downscale a 4K signal, there's no issues with the PS4 or PS5- you can even do 1080P 120 FPS over HDMI 2.0 for the games that offer this option on the latter.  And then for older consoles and the Switch, I use the mClassic upscaler which outputs at 1440P.  Games look so good this way.
:lawd

While I will give Samsung major props for how good the VA panel looks on their Odyssey G7, IPS is still the king and I'm glad I found the Acer model I ended up going with.

Current displays are:

Primary: Acer XB323U GX.  Absolutely fantastic monitor and I'm very happy with it.  I can't find any reviews on the GX version, but the GP version which is the same thing, but 144/170hz instead of 240/270hz, has two reviews here (https://www.displayninja.com/acer-xb323ugp-review/) and here (https://www.wepc.com/gaming-monitor/review/acer-predator-xb323u/).

Secondary/console display is the LG 27GL850-B (https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/lg/27gl850-b).  LG announced a 32" version of the 850 series for release sometime in the future, but no pricing info has been given out yet.

For anyone interested in 1440P monitors that work great with the PS4 and PS5, there's a list here, although it's incomplete (https://www.reddit.com/r/PS5/comments/ljp0g8/here_is_a_list_of_1440p_monitors_that_are_able_to/).  I guess I should submit the XB323U to the thread.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Beezy on April 22, 2021, 12:05:15 AM
PS5 has Astrobot; one of the greatest 3D platformers in existence,  and the DualSense; The greatest controller to date with it's haptic responses and a d-pad rolled back to perfection like the OG PS controllers. Plus my hundreds of $$ spent on my PS library have now all been improved, breathing new life into the hundreds of games I have... All for $400..

No losing detected.
 :win
:doge :doge :doge
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: remy on April 22, 2021, 01:59:28 AM
Plus my hundreds of $$ spent on my PS library have now all been improved, breathing new life into the hundreds of games I have... All for $400..
*PS1, PS2, PSP, PSVite and PS3 excluded  :brain
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Lonewulfeus on April 22, 2021, 05:08:59 AM
Playing The Show on Xbox for free is amazing brehs.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on April 22, 2021, 07:30:05 AM
https://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2021/04/21/ps4-ps5-cmos/

https://twitter.com/DoesItPlay1/status/1384278650485231623

:thinking
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Svejk on April 22, 2021, 07:44:11 AM
Plus my hundreds of $$ spent on my PS library have now all been improved, breathing new life into the hundreds of games I have... All for $400..
*PS1, PS2, PSP, PSVite and PS3 excluded  :brain
Ain't nobody got time to go back and play those.  I don't even have time to go back and play the mass of PS4 games I have.  If I really felt I needed to go back and try a PS1, PS2 or PSP game, I can play it on my phone with upscaled resolution and save states.   :betty

And let's say if my prediction did come to fruition about them making an online library of their legacy titles as part of a new premium membership, with games such as Jumping Flash or ApeEscape at my finger tips, I still couldn't go back and play them. I don't have the time to play the games I just bought just in the past month!   :doge 
Sony's Play at Home and PS Plus collections dropped a ton of games I've been wanting to play I never got too also.  The backlog is so trill, all thanks to Sony.  I can't even get to my Switch or PC games I've accumulated.

I would be singing a different tune if I had nothing to do but play games like I did in my 20's, but that's certainly not the case anymore.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Svejk on April 22, 2021, 07:48:57 AM
https://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2021/04/21/ps4-ps5-cmos/

https://twitter.com/DoesItPlay1/status/1384278650485231623

:thinking
Sony actually listening to people and looking to do something about it?!  The gall!  :info
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: MMaRsu on April 22, 2021, 08:01:22 AM
https://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2021/04/21/ps4-ps5-cmos/

https://twitter.com/DoesItPlay1/status/1384278650485231623

:thinking

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EzWkN3-VUAAdr5F?format=png)

Damn I guess Jessica really was on top of things!
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Svejk on April 22, 2021, 08:21:10 AM
https://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2021/04/21/ps4-ps5-cmos/

https://twitter.com/DoesItPlay1/status/1384278650485231623

:thinking

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EzWkN3-VUAAdr5F?format=png)

Damn I guess Jessica really was on top of things!
She extracted what info she could pull out of them.  :popular
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Tasty on April 22, 2021, 08:56:03 AM
https://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2021/04/21/ps4-ps5-cmos/

https://twitter.com/DoesItPlay1/status/1384278650485231623

:thinking

The system works. :)
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 22, 2021, 09:08:22 AM
https://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2021/04/21/ps4-ps5-cmos/

https://twitter.com/DoesItPlay1/status/1384278650485231623

:thinking

:rejoice win me back! Fight for my love like a lady being fought over by two burly blokes :rejoice
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on April 22, 2021, 10:23:53 AM
Plus my hundreds of $$ spent on my PS library have now all been improved, breathing new life into the hundreds of games I have... All for $400..
*PS1, PS2, PSP, PSVite and PS3 excluded  :brain
Ain't nobody got time to go back and play those. 

 :iface
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Svejk on April 22, 2021, 10:39:49 AM
Plus my hundreds of $$ spent on my PS library have now all been improved, breathing new life into the hundreds of games I have... All for $400..
*PS1, PS2, PSP, PSVite and PS3 excluded  :brain
Ain't nobody got time to go back and play those. 

 :iface
I know that's not that's not the point of all this, but I certainly don't care.  :trumps  Looking back, I pretty much never played PS1 games on my PS2... Never played PS2 or PS1 games on my OG PS3 60GB... Even though I couldn't go back to play my PS3 on PS4, but didn't care...  Only now does it matter some, because times have changed and my time to play is much shorter, so PS4 backlog is real.  And I'll be honest, If PS5 wasn't PS4 BC, I'd be ok with that too (my kids wouldn't though). 
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 22, 2021, 10:48:54 AM
I played gta3 and ff7 og on my ps2 just last year. I have had a ps2 hooked up to every tv I've owned since first getting one in 2001.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: HardcoreRetro on April 22, 2021, 10:59:35 AM
I'm playing Drakengard 3 in preparation for the Nier remake tomorrow.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on April 22, 2021, 11:01:07 AM
Plus my hundreds of $$ spent on my PS library have now all been improved, breathing new life into the hundreds of games I have... All for $400..
*PS1, PS2, PSP, PSVite and PS3 excluded  :brain
Ain't nobody got time to go back and play those. 

 :iface
I know that's not that's not the point of all this, but I certainly don't care.  :trumps  Looking back, I pretty much never played PS1 games on my PS2... Never played PS2 or PS1 games on my OG PS3 60GB... Even though I couldn't go back to play my PS3 on PS4, but didn't care...  Only now does it matter some, because times have changed and my time to play is much shorter, so PS4 backlog is real.  And I'll be honest, If PS5 wasn't PS4 BC, I'd be ok with that too (my kids wouldn't though).

:iface  :iface  :iface  :iface  :iface  :iface  :iface  :iface  :iface  :iface  :iface  :iface
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Svejk on April 22, 2021, 11:11:38 AM
To each their own.   8)
Only hate and gaming grudge I hold isn't even really game related tbh.  My Nintendo griping isn't hate, just a misunderstanding (and still don't really get).  I'm glad there's so many options and platforms to choose from, I just prefer one of them.  Overall, there's really nothing for gamers to complain about in the grand scheme of things.  Just seems lately everyone wants to point the finger at someone.
 :sistine
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on April 22, 2021, 11:22:05 AM
Overall, there's really nothing for gamers to complain about in the grand scheme of things.

 :cac

I think "Hey, at some point this game system is going to be completely useless and you won't even be able to play physical copies" is a pretty valid thing to have a complaint against.

That said, this is ultimately going to end up being a problem on all consoles at varying degrees.  Even if you have nothing but physical copies of games, patches and DLC are not going to be available at some point, and it's going to depend on the games individually for how much or how little that might matter.

For example, if theoretically PS4 and Xbox One game content is unavailable 15-20 years from now and you've got a craving to play some Tekken 7, popping that disc in is going to get you the launch version without all the years' worth of updates, new content, new moves, and all the new roster additions.

This is one of the big reasons why a lot of people are still into physical game collecting and get kind of heated when something is released "incomplete," particularly when it's something from one of the limited game publishers who claim to release titles as complete on cart/disc.  Is also why I don't generally bother buying physical versions of anything with a heavy focus on online play.  It's pointless- you're buying a coaster.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Tuckers Law on April 22, 2021, 11:33:31 AM
Plus my hundreds of $$ spent on my PS library have now all been improved, breathing new life into the hundreds of games I have... All for $400..
*PS1, PS2, PSP, PSVite and PS3 excluded  :brain
Ain't nobody got time to go back and play those. 

 :iface
I know that's not that's not the point of all this, but I certainly don't care.  :trumps  Looking back, I pretty much never played PS1 games on my PS2... Never played PS2 or PS1 games on my OG PS3 60GB... Even though I couldn't go back to play my PS3 on PS4, but didn't care...  Only now does it matter some, because times have changed and my time to play is much shorter, so PS4 backlog is real.  And I'll be honest, If PS5 wasn't PS4 BC, I'd be ok with that too (my kids wouldn't though).

I see through your schemes Jim.   :ufup
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Svejk on April 22, 2021, 11:46:39 AM
Overall, there's really nothing for gamers to complain about in the grand scheme of things.

 :cac

I think "Hey, at some point this game system is going to be completely useless and you won't even be able to play physical copies" is a pretty valid thing to have a complaint against.

That said, this is ultimately going to end up being a problem on all consoles at varying degrees.  Even if you have nothing but physical copies of games, patches and DLC are not going to be available at some point, and it's going to depend on the games individually for how much or how little that might matter.

For example, if theoretically PS4 and Xbox One game content is unavailable 15-20 years from now and you've got a craving to play some Tekken 7, popping that disc in is going to get you the launch version without all the years' worth of updates, new content, new moves, and all the new roster additions.

This is one of the big reasons why a lot of people are still into physical game collecting and get kind of heated when something is released "incomplete," particularly when it's something from one of the limited game publishers who claim to release titles as complete on cart/disc.
That would be like defending Nintendo saying, "Hey, I have a hankering for some Goldeneye64"  But nothing of Nintendo's hardware can play it other than a busted ass N64.  But it's ok.  It was just a fun game to play back then.  But in spite of everything else y'all mentioned, the big difference is that I'm done with physical games (except Switch, but that's a beast of it's own that my kids want), hence my stand on the situations of late..  I would be even sold on streaming games with no hardware, if the quality was there.  Only a matter of time.  Stadia was almost too good to be true, but we all see how their doodoo support was. 
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 22, 2021, 11:55:37 AM
Sony!

Reverse the cmos stuff. I'm so glad you're looking into it. WIN ME OVER BABY. I've given you love my entire life. Love me back baby. Send me some flowers. I *want* the ps5 despite the fact it's ugly as sin.  I don't *want* to migrate my games to xbox. Fight for me, PS. :-*
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Rahxephon91 on April 22, 2021, 01:00:56 PM
I'm playing Drakengard 3 in preparation for the Nier remake tomorrow.
Im sorry.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on April 22, 2021, 01:18:05 PM
Overall, there's really nothing for gamers to complain about in the grand scheme of things.

 :cac

I think "Hey, at some point this game system is going to be completely useless and you won't even be able to play physical copies" is a pretty valid thing to have a complaint against.

That said, this is ultimately going to end up being a problem on all consoles at varying degrees.  Even if you have nothing but physical copies of games, patches and DLC are not going to be available at some point, and it's going to depend on the games individually for how much or how little that might matter.

For example, if theoretically PS4 and Xbox One game content is unavailable 15-20 years from now and you've got a craving to play some Tekken 7, popping that disc in is going to get you the launch version without all the years' worth of updates, new content, new moves, and all the new roster additions.

This is one of the big reasons why a lot of people are still into physical game collecting and get kind of heated when something is released "incomplete," particularly when it's something from one of the limited game publishers who claim to release titles as complete on cart/disc.
That would be like defending Nintendo saying, "Hey, I have a hankering for some Goldeneye64"  But nothing of Nintendo's hardware can play it other than a busted ass N64.  But it's ok.  It was just a fun game to play back then. 

No, it wouldn't be like that, because if you wanted to go back and play Goldeneye on an N64, you can do just that.  This is like going back to play Goldeneye and finding that half of the levels are locked and multiplayer is unavailable without an update.
:ufup

Or as better example, this is like trying to play an N64 game that requires the expansion pack, but all of the expansion packs have a battery inside that makes them stop working after 2025, rendering any game requiring them useless.

But in spite of everything else y'all mentioned, the big difference is that I'm done with physical games (except Switch, but that's a beast of it's own that my kids want), hence my stand on the situations of late..  I would be even sold on streaming games with no hardware, if the quality was there.  Only a matter of time.  Stadia was almost too good to be true, but we all see how their doodoo support was.

Not sure why you are making this a personal thing.  This whole CMOS thing sucks because potentially you cannot play anything on a PS4 (and PS5, apparently?  Not sure) whether its physical or digital, if the online service cannot be accessed.  And that's just kinda dumb, no matter how far along it might be until this happens.  Do I think most people will even care in 20 years? Nope.  Not the point.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on April 22, 2021, 01:24:41 PM
Just every once in a while whoever runs PlayStation wants Microsoft to think that they have a chance.

Then after they've had their fun they curbstomp Xbox again.


Anyhow, "looking into it" in corpo talk means trying to persuade a developer to pull up the old firmware code and change a line of code that he doesn't feel like doing.
Maybe Jessica can get him to do it, but it depends on if she can get through to him or if he ignores everyone by putting on his headset and staring at the screen without blinking.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: mormapope on April 22, 2021, 01:24:54 PM
I guess a point to make is if Valve and Steam as a whole allows for old games, regardless of how much those games sell, why can't console manufacturers apply the same logic?

The answer is obviously software/architecture related. And Microsoft has shown there are software solutions regardless of architecture barriers. Which then becomes a conversation of how much it costs to develop a solution.

Sony as of late doesn't want to spend time or resources on a solution. Which sucks because the quality of software on all Playstation consoles is high.

Thats the jist of all this.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on April 22, 2021, 02:31:20 PM
My opinion is that with these companies wanting to steer everything towards digital and ditch physical, backwards-compatibility should be a bigger focus.  Microsoft has done much better in this regard, but none of the console makers can even hold a candle to how well things have been on PC with the likes of Steam.

I happily ditched physical PC media because of awesome the digital platforms on PC are.  Can't say I've ever felt that way about any of these consoles.  Look at how bad the previous Nintendo ones were especially- they didn't even have accounts to log onto to keep track of and redownload your games.
:dizzy

Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: MMaRsu on April 22, 2021, 03:05:48 PM
https://majornelson.com/fpsboost/?ocid=Platform_soc_omc_xbo_tw_Photo_lrn_4.22.2

120fps for your Xbox EA games

Mirrors Edge and Titanfall 2 at 120fps mmmm goddamn thats good if u own an Xbox
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Tuckers Law on April 22, 2021, 03:32:56 PM
As someone who’s purchased backlog stretches all the way back into the cube/ps2 era of games, backwards compatibility is the number one feature of a system in my eyes.  Until PS5 offers better than PS4 BC (I’ll even accept just my own digital purchases for ps1/2 classics), that system is a non-starter for me, no matter how many God of Wars release for it.  If my switch library can’t carry over to whatever the next Nintendo system is, then I’m not bothering with it.  Nintendo burned me really fucking hard by not carrying over my Virtual Console library.

It’s that shit more than anything that drives piracy for me.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Rahxephon91 on April 22, 2021, 04:15:38 PM
https://majornelson.com/fpsboost/?ocid=Platform_soc_omc_xbo_tw_Photo_lrn_4.22.2

120fps for your Xbox EA games

Mirrors Edge and Titanfall 2 at 120fps mmmm goddamn thats good if u own an Xbox
Meh seems like a waste to me.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 22, 2021, 04:35:28 PM
https://majornelson.com/fpsboost/?ocid=Platform_soc_omc_xbo_tw_Photo_lrn_4.22.2

120fps for your Xbox EA games

Mirrors Edge and Titanfall 2 at 120fps mmmm goddamn thats good if u own an Xbox
Meh seems like a waste to me.

agreed. seems like a gimmick
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: MMaRsu on April 22, 2021, 04:38:54 PM
How is 120fps a gimmick lmao
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Rahxephon91 on April 22, 2021, 04:43:36 PM
Maybe not a gimmick, but I doubt there’s many who can take advantage of it. Titanfall 2 and ME already looked and ran great on the One X. Would rather have these efforts put forward on games that can use it like say Lost Odyssey and so on.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: mormapope on April 22, 2021, 04:54:16 PM
Gaming monitors as a whole are either 4K, or  1080P/1440P 144/240HZ. It's been this way for years at this point. Top end TVs last year were all about high refresh rates and adaptive sync.

Refresh rates aren't a gimmick. Might as well say game performance or feel as a whole doesn't matter. Higher refresh rates feel better to play. Tons of videos detail this. It isn't just about some sort of competitive edge, game feel benefits a fuck ton from high framerate and refresh rates.

You have the choice of games looking better (4K), or running/feeling better (144/240HZ)

Maybe not a gimmick, but I doubt there’s many who can take advantage of it. Titanfall 2 and ME already looked and ran great on the One X. Would rather have these efforts put forward on games that can use it like say Lost Odyssey and so on.

So fast paced first person shooter action games should be at 60, but turn based JRPGs should run at 120 HZ?  :lol :lol :lol
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 22, 2021, 04:55:52 PM
How is 120fps a gimmick lmao

I just don't see the point in it as someone satisfied with 30.

Rah is referring to Lost Odyssey's myriad of flaws like long load times and frame rate.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Tuckers Law on April 22, 2021, 04:57:08 PM
A solid 120/144fps in fast-paced games is fantastic.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Svejk on April 22, 2021, 05:04:22 PM
I hope to someday actually experience 120fps.  :-[ 
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Rahxephon91 on April 22, 2021, 05:06:11 PM
I’m sure it feels better. I don’t really care. I also doubt most people do care or even have the tv to do it.

And no I would like Lost Odyssey at 4K and or 60. Titanfall 2 has been fine on consoles forever.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on April 22, 2021, 06:32:02 PM
Maybe not a gimmick, but I doubt there’s many who can take advantage of it. Titanfall 2 and ME already looked and ran great on the One X. Would rather have these efforts put forward on games that can use it like say Lost Odyssey and so on.

One of the big advantages that the Xbox line has over Playstation is compatibilty.  Xbox One X and Series can run at 1440P.  IIRC they also can do 1080P or 1440P 120 FPS with HDMI 2.0 so more TVs should be able to do this, not to mention a ton of monitors out there.  But need confirmation on that.

Gaming monitors as a whole are either 4K, or  1080P/1440P 144/240HZ. It's been this way for years at this point. Top end TVs last year were all about high refresh rates and adaptive sync.

Refresh rates aren't a gimmick. Might as well say game performance or feel as a whole doesn't matter. Higher refresh rates feel better to play. Tons of videos detail this. It isn't just about some sort of competitive edge, game feel benefits a fuck ton from high framerate and refresh rates.

You have the choice of games looking better (4K), or running/feeling better (144/240HZ)

Or both -and you can get 4K 144hz- it's just going to cost you.  :money

One of the reasons why people are so excited about HDMI 2.1 right now is that means 4K 120hz on much larger panels for a considerably cheaper price than a large format gaming display would cost.  A 55" OLED LG CX is around $1500-ish.  A 55" OLED Alienware monitor is like $3000.

And for anyone who glossed over it or missed it, you can also get PS5 to run at 1080P 120hz on compatible monitors with HDMI 2.0 ports.  Not sure about TVs that have this but it's worth checking.  Has to do with downscaling- 1440P monitors that can accept 4K signals can do this, for example.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on April 22, 2021, 06:32:32 PM
That's probably 120fps / 1080p (or a lower dynamic resolution)

Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on April 22, 2021, 06:35:07 PM
A solid 120/144fps in fast-paced games is fantastic.
I hope to someday actually experience 120fps.  :-[

My experience with it is that it's hard to tell a difference once you're over 100 frames or so, but regardless, it's pretty awesome- everything just feels so incredibly smooth.  It's mainly a bigger deal in competitive FPS games and the like because with a good, fast monitor, you're getting insanely smooth motion and minimal input lag.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on April 22, 2021, 06:37:41 PM
That's probably 120fps / 1080p (or a lower dynamic resolution)

Yeah, just checked- same deal as Playstation 5.  You can have a 1440P monitor drop to 1080P/120 FPS.  There's just way more compatible monitors out there that Xbox can use compared to Playstation.

I hate that Sony won't add 1440P resolution.  It sucks worse when a response given about it was "we can add it at any time if there is enough demand for it."
:mindblown

Why would you NOT add it then? :dizzy

But as it is, the monitor I'm using downscales PS4 Pro 4K to 1440P beautifully.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Rahxephon91 on April 22, 2021, 06:38:37 PM
Is that true? I hooked my Series X up to my 1440p 175hz monitor and it wouldn’t allow that.

“1440p can only do 1440p @ 60hz. The monitors are not equipped with HDMI 2.1 to allow for 1440p @ 120hz. You can only get 1440p @ 120hz if you use the display port, which the Xbox does not have.Nov 10, 2020“

Either way it’s a feature I bet about 90% of the users can’t use.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on April 22, 2021, 06:40:00 PM
Is that true? I hooked my Series X up to my 1440p 175hz monitor and it wouldn’t allow that.

“1440p can only do 1440p @ 60hz. The monitors are not equipped with HDMI 2.1 to allow for 1440p @ 120hz. You can only get 1440p @ 120hz if you use the display port, which the Xbox does not have.Nov 10, 2020“

Either way it’s a feature I bet about 90% of the users can’t use.

Yeah, just posted this right when you did!  You should be able to get 1080P 120 HZ, though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-esbyO6ENY
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Tuckers Law on April 22, 2021, 07:42:45 PM
A solid 120/144fps in fast-paced games is fantastic.
I hope to someday actually experience 120fps.  :-[

My experience with it is that it's hard to tell a difference once you're over 100 frames or so, but regardless, it's pretty awesome- everything just feels so incredibly smooth.  It's mainly a bigger deal in competitive FPS games and the like because with a good, fast monitor, you're getting insanely smooth motion and minimal input lag.

In my experience a high and solid frame rate is awesome for RTS’s as well as FPS’s.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: thetylerrob on April 22, 2021, 08:15:36 PM
Don't ask me how it would work, but a fighting game designed specifically for high refresh rate monitors would be cool.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on April 22, 2021, 09:42:34 PM
Don't ask me how it would work, but a fighting game designed specifically for high refresh rate monitors would be cool.

Samurai Shodown (2019) on XBox Series X runs at 120hz.  :o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgQAhyagW-o

Not that you can tell from this video, since Youtube is capped at 60 fps.  :lol

Apparently Fantasy Strike and Power Rangers on PC run at high refresh rates too.  Might need to try those.  The games still should feel pretty much the same as 60 FPS, but the input lag should be lower.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 22, 2021, 11:39:17 PM
A post to celebrate my love for PlayStation :tocry

https://youtu.be/WedxvbNhiN4

https://youtu.be/qRhDmSlr8Ns

https://youtu.be/H9c7NByhZn4

https://youtu.be/gQXl9gaeNLQ

https://youtu.be/CZpzlNUH_Hc

https://youtu.be/YxMVj56L8zA

https://youtu.be/eHf7Z6yegoM

https://youtu.be/oFgMpFwDLtg

https://youtu.be/v3W3MvvDK44

:tocry
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 23, 2021, 12:01:22 AM
https://youtu.be/LHJbE_kfybs

https://youtu.be/xeNEXjcq36U

https://youtu.be/MFX594xk4A4

https://youtu.be/BZM9kTGFeko

https://youtu.be/Ivtj5ZhRjHg

https://youtu.be/ymw6r-DVMtU

https://youtu.be/KxyEF0nfhHA

https://youtu.be/te_No0dapPY

https://youtu.be/bUQqX8KvK14

https://youtu.be/gSWmJPu53yM

https://youtu.be/OpQOso5DJCU

https://youtu.be/Nr_2j4BlR3o

:tocry
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: remy on April 23, 2021, 12:12:13 AM
Don't ask me how it would work, but a fighting game designed specifically for high refresh rate monitors would be cool.
The current crop of games I think already have issue with motion clarity at 60 fps. Having the extra tween frames in fast games like SF, smash and guilty would really make things more readable, I think
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 23, 2021, 12:33:06 AM
https://youtu.be/HiP3WujoXrE

Good God I was obsessed with MGS1 before it came out. I couldn't believe they were making a game straight out of Hollywood.

I first saw a trailer for the game in OPM. They had a demo disc with an MGS1 trailer on it. I had to have it.

Later they managed to put out an MGS1 demo that you picked up at Pizza Hut. I didn't get past the first room for 30-40 minutes just fucking around. I got the game for Christmas 98 and was hooked. What a game.

The aforementioned trailer.

https://youtu.be/5SA5VVBb2bU

 MGS1 is still great to this day, shooting and all.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 23, 2021, 12:55:02 AM
Holy shit, I'm old. :stahp
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Tuckers Law on April 23, 2021, 12:56:52 AM
I still remember buying MGS for $35 off my friend who was done with it.  My dad was all, “why”...pfft, you don’t know, old man.  This is solid fucking snake.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 23, 2021, 01:03:24 AM
Sniper Wolf :lawd
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: MMaRsu on April 23, 2021, 03:48:28 AM
How is 120fps a gimmick lmao

I just don't see the point in it as someone satisfied with 30.

Rah is referring to Lost Odyssey's myriad of flaws like long load times and frame rate.

I uh what

Satisfied with 30?????? Are u ok?
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Pissy F Benny on April 23, 2021, 04:29:01 AM
idgaf about 30fps, as long as the game doesn't turn I to a slide slow I'm gucci :trumps
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: MMaRsu on April 23, 2021, 05:11:15 AM
idgaf about 30fps, as long as the game doesn't turn I to a slide slow I'm gucci :trumps

30fps is fine if its 30 throughout, but 60 just feels so much better. I dont understand how one can say either 60 or 120fps is a gimmick I dunno
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Svejk on April 23, 2021, 07:46:32 AM
Even though I have yet to see 120fps, 60fps to 120fps seems to be only for the e-sport extremists type.. The thought of 120fps sounds almost inhuman, as light bulb flashes at 60 times a second.  It's not even noticeable to the human eye. I can't imagine I'll ever have the need for 120fps.  It would be nice to have the option I suppose... just seems unnecessary for 95% of gamers out there.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Don Rumata on April 23, 2021, 08:42:53 AM
You can definitely tell the difference between 60 and 120, even just in the mouse cursor moving around more smoothly.
That said, it's a diminishing return thing, so it doesn't feel as drastic as the jump between 30 and 60, even though it's double the amount of frames being added.

240fps, now that's probably just for esports types, LinusTechTips had a video testing that:
https://youtu.be/OX31kZbAXsA
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 23, 2021, 09:31:58 AM
How is 120fps a gimmick lmao

I just don't see the point in it as someone satisfied with 30.

Rah is referring to Lost Odyssey's myriad of flaws like long load times and frame rate.

I uh what

Satisfied with 30?????? Are u ok?

Fighting, racing, and fps are the only games I demand be 60. Played Bloodborne, which is 30, and loved it just fine. It's not that important to me.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: MMaRsu on April 23, 2021, 09:50:31 AM
Lel

i also loved it at broken 30fps with bad framepacing, doesnt mean it would be a better experience at 60 🤷🏼‍♂️
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: HardcoreRetro on April 23, 2021, 10:27:53 AM
The thought of 120fps sounds almost inhuman, as light bulb flashes at 60 times a second.  It's not even noticeable to the human eye. I can't imagine I'll ever have the need for 120fps.

Most lightbulbs flash at 120 hz. The ones in the 50/60hz range are pretty noticable from your peripheral vision. (We in the Netherlands had Crt tvs running at 50hz back in the day and you could most definitely see it flickering.)
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Tuckers Law on April 23, 2021, 10:37:43 AM
In fairness to Cindi, I think what she’s touching on is that not having a faster frame rate isn’t a detriment to her enjoyment of most good games, which I would agree with pretty much entirely.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Don Rumata on April 23, 2021, 11:02:50 AM
It depends on the stability also.

I tried replaying Bloodborne a couple of years back, and the stuttering + shitty image quality gave me a headache, and couldn't continue.
Some games that are 30 but very smoothly paced, are more acceptable.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: mormapope on April 23, 2021, 11:18:04 AM
In fairness to Cindi, I think what she’s touching on is that not having a faster frame rate isn’t a detriment to her enjoyment of most good games, which I would agree with pretty much entirely.

That's definitely fair. I'd say anyone saying it's a waste or unwarranted isn't fair. This hobby has a lot of different options and getting more bang for your buck for any game or device is beneficial.

We're at the cusp of consoles having high performance options being standard. Which is something a lot of people could or would enjoy.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Rahxephon91 on April 23, 2021, 11:35:06 AM
Its kind of a waste when there plenty of other 30fps BC games that could be updated instead of adding a feature that most can't use.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: mormapope on April 23, 2021, 12:05:50 PM
It's kind of not a waste that support is added and people get to enjoy using a new feature they haven't used or experienced before.

What's gonna be next on the "this thing that people enjoy but I don't therefore it sucks" bingo card? So far we have backwards compatibility, storefronts and access to games, game pass, and now support for monitors and tvs.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Beezy on April 23, 2021, 12:08:28 PM
Its kind of a waste when there plenty of other 30fps BC games that could be updated instead of adding a feature that most can't use.
You do realize they're not done adding FPS boost to games, right? Maybe it was just easier/quicker to do on these EA games.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 23, 2021, 12:15:45 PM
I can definitely see the benefit with fps games. Those old unreal games were higher than 60 right?
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Svejk on April 23, 2021, 12:18:58 PM
Playing Control on PS5 was a unique experience.  I jumped between graphics mode and performance mode way more than expected.  When going around environments with heavy reflections and lighting, graphics mode...  Tougher, more intense boss fights, performance mode.   This becoming a thing now is definitely welcome... at least for Control.  With games like Demon's Souls, there's very little reason to play in graphics mode... Toggled it once..  :kobeyuck won't do that again.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Tuckers Law on April 23, 2021, 12:27:40 PM
True DeS experience should always have it looking a little jank!  Framedrops in swamp and muddy textures galore!
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Rahxephon91 on April 23, 2021, 12:59:23 PM
I doubt most people have HDMI 2.1 TVs. Updating an already perfect running game like Titanfall 2 is boring.


Battlefield 4 runs at 120fps. Does it still have a sub 1080p Rez?

Catalyst runs at 120fps. Does it still look like crap?
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: HardcoreRetro on April 23, 2021, 01:42:06 PM
And what's with this dang newfangled HD? Back in my day we had 576p.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: MMaRsu on April 23, 2021, 02:31:10 PM
I doubt most people have HDMI 2.1 TVs. Updating an already perfect running game like Titanfall 2 is boring.


Battlefield 4 runs at 120fps. Does it still have a sub 1080p Rez?

Catalyst runs at 120fps. Does it still look like crap?

Even if your tv doesnt support 60fps im still sure 120fps gives you better performance even if your tv doesnt display 120fps

but maybe im talking outta my ass but Im pretty sure I looked that up once
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Rahxephon91 on April 23, 2021, 06:43:45 PM
If your tv doesn’t  support 120hz, the Xbox doesn’t output 120fps.

I don’t think you get any improvement.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on April 23, 2021, 07:08:58 PM
Even though I have yet to see 120fps, 60fps to 120fps seems to be only for the e-sport extremists type.. The thought of 120fps sounds almost inhuman, as light bulb flashes at 60 times a second.  It's not even noticeable to the human eye. I can't imagine I'll ever have the need for 120fps.  It would be nice to have the option I suppose... just seems unnecessary for 95% of gamers out there.
I doubt most people have HDMI 2.1 TVs. Updating an already perfect running game like Titanfall 2 is boring.

These are very "old man yelling at the clouds" type responses.   :doge  Rahx, you've said "I doubt most people have HDMI 2.1 TVs" multiple times in this post.  Doesn't matter- it's a new standard that more and more TVs and monitors are going to have going forward. 

You can definitely tell the difference between 60 and 120, even just in the mouse cursor moving around more smoothly.
That said, it's a diminishing return thing, so it doesn't feel as drastic as the jump between 30 and 60, even though it's double the amount of frames being added.

240fps, now that's probably just for esports types, LinusTechTips had a video testing that:
https://youtu.be/OX31kZbAXsA

Some of you guys might want to check out your phone screens and see what they're running at- my Pixel 4 XL is 90hz and the difference when just scrolling up and down with it enabled is pretty noticeable versus 60hz.  So you may already have something like this available to compare.

How is 120fps a gimmick lmao

I just don't see the point in it as someone satisfied with 30.

Rah is referring to Lost Odyssey's myriad of flaws like long load times and frame rate.

I uh what

Satisfied with 30?????? Are u ok?

Fighting, racing, and fps are the only games I demand be 60. Played Bloodborne, which is 30, and loved it just fine. It's not that important to me.

Looks pretty awesome at 60 fps to me. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0tqppZDYxw

I'd certainly want to play it this way if given the choice.  Ditto for 120 fps- I'm sure Devil May Cry 5 SE on the next-gen consoles is amazing with 120 fps enabled.

In fairness to Cindi, I think what she’s touching on is that not having a faster frame rate isn’t a detriment to her enjoyment of most good games, which I would agree with pretty much entirely.

Definitely- just don't see a reason to be against having better framerate options is all. 

Playing Control on PS5 was a unique experience.  I jumped between graphics mode and performance mode way more than expected.  When going around environments with heavy reflections and lighting, graphics mode...  Tougher, more intense boss fights, performance mode.   This becoming a thing now is definitely welcome... at least for Control.  With games like Demon's Souls, there's very little reason to play in graphics mode... Toggled it once..  :kobeyuck won't do that again.

This is why I've become a bigger fan of playing on PC- I can run Control with all the crazy 'graphics' mode stuff enabled and at a better framerate than what 'performance' on a console offers.
:lawd

Will be interesting to see if devs can get the consoles to do 4K/60 FPS/Full detail/RTX on by the end of the gen.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on April 23, 2021, 07:22:24 PM
120fps is pretty nice. Playing Doom Eternal on those framerates is godly. But 60 > 120fps is not as big a difference for me as 30 > 60fps is.
Still if we get higher framerates or better looking games I'm all for it.

I think we've sort of hit the ceiling with resolutions anyway. Post 4k it really becomes a matter of screen size not resolution.
The way I see it up to 32" you're ok with either 1080p or 1440p. Then between 32" and 65" you definitely want at least 4k or something close to it.

4K/HDR OLED really is a blessing. Whether it is Lord of the Rings or Tennet in 4k, Xenoblade upressed or RTX enabled games like CONTROL. Everything looks so smooth  :whew
In that sense I feel that we really hit a golden age of video games and movies in terms of availability of content at the best possible quality.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on April 23, 2021, 07:29:14 PM
120fps is pretty nice. Playing Doom Eternal on those framerates is godly. But 60 > 120fps is not as big a difference for me as 30 > 60fps is.
Still if we get higher framerates or better looking games I'm all for it.

Agreed.  And before that even, just having a solid, stable framerate is more important to me than 30 fps, 60 fps, or higher- I'll take a rock-solid 30 over a 60 fps game with a framerate that's all over the place.

Quote
I think we've sort of hit the ceiling with resolutions anyway. Post 4k it really becomes a matter of screen size not resolution.
The way I see it up to 32" you're ok with either 1080p or 1440p. Then between 32" and 65" you definitely want at least 4k or something close to it.

From my experience, it's-

1080P: Up to 27" with 24" being the sweet spot.
1440P: From 27" to 32" with 27" being the sweet spot.
4K: 32" and up.  Not sure what the sweet spot is here.  I thought 4K 32" and 4K 55" both looked great.

But that's more for PC usage and less for general console gaming on a TV.  1080P still looks good on my 2011 TV.  As does 720P on my little 19" 2009 TV, lol.

4K/HDR OLED really is a blessing. Whether it is Lord of the Rings or Tennet in 4k, Xenoblade upressed or RTX enabled games like CONTROL. Everything looks so smooth  :whew
In that sense I feel that we really hit a golden age of video games and movies in terms of availability of content at the best possible quality.

Dat black level and response time
:lawd
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Rahxephon91 on April 23, 2021, 07:55:43 PM
Options are nice. Just don’t think 120fps is neat or should even be a priority when there’s plenty of other things that can be done. Especially when the games you’re enhancing were already fine or have problems keeping 1080p or hitting settings above the medium pc settings.


These consoles barley support Dolby Vision so let’s not talk about what the standards are.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Svejk on April 23, 2021, 08:11:09 PM
Playing Control on PS5 was a unique experience.  I jumped between graphics mode and performance mode way more than expected.  When going around environments with heavy reflections and lighting, graphics mode...  Tougher, more intense boss fights, performance mode.   This becoming a thing now is definitely welcome... at least for Control.  With games like Demon's Souls, there's very little reason to play in graphics mode... Toggled it once..  :kobeyuck won't do that again.

This is why I've become a bigger fan of playing on PC- I can run Control with all the crazy 'graphics' mode stuff enabled and at a better framerate than what 'performance' on a console offers.
:lawd

Will be interesting to see if devs can get the consoles to do 4K/60 FPS/Full detail/RTX on by the end of the gen.

I agree, but here's the catch...
spoiler (click to show/hide)
(https://media.tenor.com/images/2fe7c15d05984871d90dd2a15a276e34/tenor.gif)
[close]
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Beezy on April 23, 2021, 08:13:20 PM
I want a Titanfall 3. :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 23, 2021, 08:32:50 PM
I'm glad that people that care about 120 fps have the option. Options being available on next gen systems honestly just makes them even more appealing than pc. Even though I don't personally care about 120 I can see why others would and I'm glad you all have that option. *thumbs up*

Even though I have yet to see 120fps, 60fps to 120fps seems to be only for the e-sport extremists type.. The thought of 120fps sounds almost inhuman, as light bulb flashes at 60 times a second.  It's not even noticeable to the human eye. I can't imagine I'll ever have the need for 120fps.  It would be nice to have the option I suppose... just seems unnecessary for 95% of gamers out there.
I doubt most people have HDMI 2.1 TVs. Updating an already perfect running game like Titanfall 2 is boring.

These are very "old man yelling at the clouds" type responses.   :doge  Rahx, you've said "I doubt most people have HDMI 2.1 TVs" multiple times in this post.  Doesn't matter- it's a new standard that more and more TVs and monitors are going to have going forward. 

You can definitely tell the difference between 60 and 120, even just in the mouse cursor moving around more smoothly.
That said, it's a diminishing return thing, so it doesn't feel as drastic as the jump between 30 and 60, even though it's double the amount of frames being added.

240fps, now that's probably just for esports types, LinusTechTips had a video testing that:
https://youtu.be/OX31kZbAXsA

Some of you guys might want to check out your phone screens and see what they're running at- my Pixel 4 XL is 90hz and the difference when just scrolling up and down with it enabled is pretty noticeable versus 60hz.  So you may already have something like this available to compare.

How is 120fps a gimmick lmao

I just don't see the point in it as someone satisfied with 30.

Rah is referring to Lost Odyssey's myriad of flaws like long load times and frame rate.

I uh what

Satisfied with 30?????? Are u ok?

Fighting, racing, and fps are the only games I demand be 60. Played Bloodborne, which is 30, and loved it just fine. It's not that important to me.

Looks pretty awesome at 60 fps to me. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0tqppZDYxw

I'd certainly want to play it this way if given the choice.  Ditto for 120 fps- I'm sure Devil May Cry 5 SE on the next-gen consoles is amazing with 120 fps enabled.

In fairness to Cindi, I think what she’s touching on is that not having a faster frame rate isn’t a detriment to her enjoyment of most good games, which I would agree with pretty much entirely.

Definitely- just don't see a reason to be against having better framerate options is all. 

Playing Control on PS5 was a unique experience.  I jumped between graphics mode and performance mode way more than expected.  When going around environments with heavy reflections and lighting, graphics mode...  Tougher, more intense boss fights, performance mode.   This becoming a thing now is definitely welcome... at least for Control.  With games like Demon's Souls, there's very little reason to play in graphics mode... Toggled it once..  :kobeyuck won't do that again.

This is why I've become a bigger fan of playing on PC- I can run Control with all the crazy 'graphics' mode stuff enabled and at a better framerate than what 'performance' on a console offers.
:lawd

Will be interesting to see if devs can get the consoles to do 4K/60 FPS/Full detail/RTX on by the end of the gen.

BB 60 fps looks good but I honestly don't see how the original BB is unplayable because it's 30. Just something I don't care about unless I'm playing a fighter or arcade game.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: benjipwns on April 24, 2021, 12:32:28 AM
4K? 120 fps? Chrono Trigger, Super Mario RPG, Yoshi's Island, Super Mario Kart, and Street Fighter II Turbo are all in 224-240p and most are probably under 30 fps. And probably zero of them run on the base silicon of the SNES. You kids these days with your PlayBox Series 5 and your 144hz TVs... :hmph
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: benjipwns on April 24, 2021, 12:33:57 AM
Does Twisted Metal 2 run in the high resolution mode of the PS1? NO! Does it run at 60 fps? lolol Does it have textures? Sorta!
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Tuckers Law on April 24, 2021, 01:08:55 AM
I would kill for a quality remastering of TM2 for PC and modern systems.  Or even just a fixed version of the PS3 TM.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Don Rumata on April 24, 2021, 07:38:22 AM
BB 60 fps looks good but I honestly don't see how the original BB is unplayable because it's 30. Just something I don't care about unless I'm playing a fighter or arcade game.
Just to clarify, i finished the game so obv. it's playable, i'm saying the bad framepacing (causing constant hitching and stuttering) annoys me and gives me a slight motion sickness, too.
So it put me off playing it again.

Since they could easily patch it for 60fps on PS5 there's really no excuse for Sony to keep ignoring one of their most iconic games, when they seem to patch everything else (they patched fucking Days Gone, ffs).
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Don Rumata on April 24, 2021, 07:40:54 AM
I doubt most people have HDMI 2.1 TVs. Updating an already perfect running game like Titanfall 2 is boring.


Battlefield 4 runs at 120fps. Does it still have a sub 1080p Rez?

Catalyst runs at 120fps. Does it still look like crap?

Even if your tv doesnt support 60fps im still sure 120fps gives you better performance even if your tv doesnt display 120fps

but maybe im talking outta my ass but Im pretty sure I looked that up once
This is tested on the video i posted and yes, even at lowers refresh rates, high FPS still reduces input lag and outdated information.
Though maybe on console you have to tie FPS to refresh rate, so i'm not sure it's possible to do.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Pissy F Benny on April 24, 2021, 08:11:50 AM
BB 60 fps looks good but I honestly don't see how the original BB is unplayable because it's 30. Just something I don't care about unless I'm playing a fighter or arcade game.
Just to clarify, i finished the game so obv. it's playable, i'm saying the bad framepacing (causing constant hitching and stuttering) annoys me and gives me a slight motion sickness, too.
So it put me off playing it again.

Since they could easily patch it for 60fps on PS5 there's really no excuse for Sony to keep ignoring one of their most iconic games, when they seem to patch everything else (they patched fucking Days Gone, ffs).

there is speculation that the same lads who did the demon souls remake are doing a bloodborne remake/remaster next, but that might be a case of putting 2+2 together instead of anything concrete
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Don Rumata on April 24, 2021, 08:36:28 AM
I thought BluePoint wanted to move to an original IP, after Demon's. :thinking
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Pissy F Benny on April 24, 2021, 08:48:59 AM
dunno, but Sony charging full price again for bloodborne knowing it will sell like hot cakes instead of doing a 60fps and 4k patch fits their MO these days (in fairness it's probably old enough that the textures might look like shit at 4k without any additional work so they might as well do a proper remaster, plus it's a guaranteed seller unlike trash like days gone remastered, which probably would sell 5 copies)
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on April 24, 2021, 10:27:41 AM
4K? 120 fps? Chrono Trigger, Super Mario RPG, Yoshi's Island, Super Mario Kart, and Street Fighter II Turbo are all in 224-240p and most are probably under 30 fps. And probably zero of them run on the base silicon of the SNES. You kids these days with your PlayBox Series 5 and your 144hz TVs... :hmph

Most sprite games from that era were 60 fps.   :P

It was most of the polygon games on the SNES and Genesis that had much lower framerates.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Tasty on April 24, 2021, 11:16:55 AM
Yeah the big deal with PAL even in SNES days is that it was capped at 50fps while USA/JP were 60fps. :wtf

Edit- This is a cool post: https://www.reddit.com/r/snes/comments/9f9r9q/testing_if_pal_snes_games_are_optimized_for_50_hz/

"Zero of them run on the base silicon of the SNES"

Wat

Pretty sure Unreal Engine didn't exist back then benji, they were still coding ASM to the metal. :wtf

https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Super_NES_Programming/Introduction_to_assembly
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Pissy F Benny on April 24, 2021, 11:20:08 AM
one of the reasons i'm not a framerate autisty tbh is probably because i grew up playing pal shit :lol
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on April 24, 2021, 11:37:07 AM
50hz Sonic with the music slowdown. :doge
I still don't understand how the megadrive was so popular here everything ran like shit while Nintendo had fixed most issues by the time the SNES released. Anything not made by Rare on the N64 though   :holeup
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Pissy F Benny on April 24, 2021, 11:40:28 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__ErBf409Dk

:kobeyuck

did they fix the music being tied to the lesser framerate in the ps1/n64 era cos I don't remember that any songs from Tony Hawk 1 or 2 sounded all wrong (it has been over 20 years tbf :doge)
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on April 24, 2021, 11:47:03 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__ErBf409Dk

:kobeyuck

did they fix the music being tied to the lesser framerate in the ps1/n64 era cos I don't remember that any songs from Tony Hawk 1 or 2 sounded all wrong (it has been over 20 years tbf :doge)
Yeah they fixed it later.

The second level of Sonic with the flickering lava is even worse.
In hindsight that probably gave a generation of kids epilepsy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gevl62KBI0g

This is what you hear before you hit the floor foaming out of your mouth
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Don Rumata on April 24, 2021, 11:50:11 AM
Another problem of PAL games (at least some of them) was the black bars on top and bottom, squishing the image vertically.  :-\
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Tasty on April 24, 2021, 01:09:26 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__ErBf409Dk

:kobeyuck

(https://i.imgur.com/riwja9P.gif)

Yo I ain't even a big Sonic fan but  :-X
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: MMaRsu on April 24, 2021, 03:33:25 PM
When ur a kid you dont even notice that shit let me tell you

Growing up with tekken 2 on a pal ps1 was still the shit
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Tasty on April 24, 2021, 03:36:38 PM
Yes kids are dumb, this is well-known.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: MMaRsu on April 24, 2021, 04:20:12 PM
Yes kids are dumb, this is well-known.

your dumb  :(

 :heartbeat
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on April 24, 2021, 04:34:43 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__ErBf409Dk

:kobeyuck

did they fix the music being tied to the lesser framerate in the ps1/n64 era cos I don't remember that any songs from Tony Hawk 1 or 2 sounded all wrong (it has been over 20 years tbf :doge)

Thank God I'm American.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Pissy F Benny on April 24, 2021, 04:53:13 PM
Another problem of PAL games (at least some of them) was the black bars on top and bottom, squishing the image vertically.  :-\


lazy devs couldn't be bothered to take advantage of the superior resolution :trumps

spoiler (click to show/hide)
which is still probably a higher res than a lot of switch games run handheld :teehee
[close]
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: benjipwns on April 24, 2021, 09:34:05 PM
Most sprite games from that era were 60 fps.   :P
That's why I picked pinnacle genre games that all have slowdown in them. I should have included Mega Man X too! :P
"Zero of them run on the base silicon of the SNES"

Wat

Pretty sure Unreal Engine didn't exist back then benji, they were still coding ASM to the metal. :wtf

https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Super_NES_Programming/Introduction_to_assembly
The games I picked, and most SNES games IIRC, run with extra chips inside the carts. The SNES CPU is slooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ... it's not fast ... ooooooowwwwwwwwwwww. Any game with SuperFX, for example, runs mostly on that rather than using the far slower SNES CPU. (You can't run them in parallel, the SNES bus isn't fast enough.) Most every game has a DSP of some type in the cartridge. It's like including a USB dongle with every game!

The Genesis by comparison never did any of this, except for Virtua Racing, every game runs on the CPU.
did they fix the music being tied to the lesser framerate in the ps1/n64 era cos I don't remember that any songs from Tony Hawk 1 or 2 sounded all wrong (it has been over 20 years tbf :doge)
Yes, especially PS1 which plays that stuff off the CD tracks. PAL consoles in the earlier generations were clocked differently which affected the entire system's overall speeds and nobody would bother to adjust the music for playing at a different speed for whatever reason.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on May 02, 2021, 07:04:56 AM
Sony has reported their 'best year' in PlayStation history.
PS5 already at 8 million, outpacing even the PS4.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E0CkummXoAEyhky?format=jpg)
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Raist on May 03, 2021, 02:49:21 PM
Guess those potential acquisition talks with MS didn't go so well :lol

https://www.sie.com/en/blog/announcing-playstations-new-partnership-with-discord/
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: MMaRsu on May 03, 2021, 02:57:49 PM
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/152884184065507328/838817470718279710/unknown.png)

Sony is charging devs for crossplay

For the payers
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on May 03, 2021, 02:59:09 PM
Guess those potential acquisition talks with MS didn't go so well :lol

https://www.sie.com/en/blog/announcing-playstations-new-partnership-with-discord/
Discord probably thinks they can still make more money on their own and they aren't wrong if they pursue partnerships like this.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Raist on May 03, 2021, 03:31:14 PM
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/152884184065507328/838817470718279710/unknown.png)

Sony is charging devs for crossplay

For the payers

lol no.

What this says is that if game X makes a lot less money via MTX on PSN despite the fact that it is by far the main platform in gameplay share, then they asking for a compensation.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: MMaRsu on May 03, 2021, 04:08:35 PM
Also bad 🤷🏼‍♂️
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Lonewulfeus on May 03, 2021, 05:13:58 PM
There is no angle to that chart that paints Sony in a positive light.  Arrogant Sony is absolutely back.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: naff on May 03, 2021, 05:33:44 PM
Guess those potential acquisition talks with MS didn't go so well :lol

https://www.sie.com/en/blog/announcing-playstations-new-partnership-with-discord/

:whew  8)
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: naff on May 03, 2021, 05:37:46 PM
microsoft should bring TEAMS to xbox  :lol  :-X

i dont understand why ms don't just lift the ideas other, better software has fixing their own shit instead of these constant acquisitions. what's the point of paying 7 billi for a company like skype when they barely make use of the tech and end up just dissolving shit anyway. teams could and should be great, but it's such a goddamn turd.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Rahxephon91 on May 03, 2021, 06:13:54 PM
Pretty scummy of Sony. It was clear that the problems they had with cross play were always that they feared on losing out on money. Maybe they need to be humbled. I mean it’s working for MS despite no real first party yet.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: naff on May 03, 2021, 06:28:10 PM
microsoft will swallow everything they can in their path. sony are right to be concerned abt it imo. that said, i really wish more games had cross play and it's annoying af. but i understand the fear. also, m$ controlling both windows and xbox isn't really cross play. they're trying to unify the platforms they control, xbox is basically a windows pc without task software at this point.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on May 03, 2021, 06:29:18 PM
microsoft should bring TEAMS to xbox  :lol  :-X

i dont understand why ms don't just lift the ideas other, better software has fixing their own shit instead of these constant acquisitions. what's the point of paying 7 billi for a company like skype when they barely make use of the tech and end up just dissolving shit anyway. teams could and should be great, but it's such a goddamn turd.
There are always big glass soulless buildings that BLOCK everything except for software released by Microsoft Corp even if it is a shitty clone of something else.
Their world of bullshit certifications and systems administrators holding the keys to the castle is a thing in and by itself.

"Slack? Zoom? We can't use that here... s e c u r i t y"

"Hold up, let me sent you a Teams invite, sorry gotta login first. Where was the post-it with my password again?"

They also make the worst business decisions (see Nokia) and try to accumulate what they buy into the Microsoft Corp Corporate Culture(TM) and Performance Reviews(TM) see Rare.
If Google weren't a bunch of amateurs Drive, Wave, Docs, Google Business Suite, G Suite, Workspace could've pushed Microsoft out of the market ages ago.
It is why when something appears that doesn't completely suck (Zoom vs. Teamviewer  :-X, Slack vs Lync/Skype Business  :-X )  people flock to it.

Keep an eye on the note keeping space. Lots of innovation going on there, I'm sure they'll buy Notion now that it is almost as unusable as a Microsoft product.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: naff on May 03, 2021, 06:32:08 PM
ive been a big fan of the changes m$ have been making the last few years, but for sure they still have a lot of software that is confusingly shitty. azure is a great platform though, and i love windows atm.

i would use the shit out of teams and be happy for our company to dump slack for the m$ package deal only if the comms functionality was even on par. atm, i run discord, slack and teams switching constantly for different groups and things (alongside messenger, whatsapp, etc for personal stuff). teams video chat is pretty dece but quite resource hungry, googles is fine too but a bit more of a bungle to use and limited. zoom is lol. way too insecure, but i sometimes install it because all the educational institutions around here use it
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on May 03, 2021, 07:24:21 PM
I just don't discuss anything of note on ZOOM or any of those apps so I don't care on Zhyina or Russia listening in but security is certainly an issue.

Windows is something I genuinely like mostly because of how shitty it is. All these little hacks make it worth it, especially the Pro version.
Apple's OS just feels too restricted in that regard. Same problem here with all those different communication channels and apps. ZOOM is the most accessible for idiots so that's the sort of go-to chat thing with screen sharing.
Then there's Discord which is awesome (especially for larger groups) but you can't really have clients join your Discord channels. Finally there's a clusterfuck of WhatsApp, Facebook messenger and whatever else exists.

I've simply stopped responding on some but that also had the effect that I lost touch with some people. It used to be much simpler when everyone was just on MSN Messenger.  :doge
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Lonewulfeus on May 03, 2021, 07:35:18 PM
https://twitter.com/tomwarren/status/1389341010334003206

:hmm
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: MMaRsu on May 03, 2021, 07:46:09 PM
Kinda like how Epic basically blackballed Sony into opening up crossplay because Fortnite was the no1 game on Playstation, Sony is now blackballing devs including Epic for including crossplay since they are the no1 console
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Raist on May 04, 2021, 04:04:22 AM
Fortnite has cross-purchase stuff, hence why Sony wasn't too keen on not having some sort of compensation just in case. They left a bit of margin though, so it's noy 1:1 between money spent and time played.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: mormapope on May 04, 2021, 08:43:38 AM
In good gaming news, Microsoft added more games to the FPS boost list  :)
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on May 05, 2021, 01:39:53 PM
https://twitter.com/tomwarren/status/1389981295330136069 (https://twitter.com/tomwarren/status/1389981295330136069)

"Ok, Phil thanks for joining us. The shareholders are worried with these reports from the Apple / Epic lawsuit. Explain it to us again. The business model behind Xbox because Sony is apparently actually making money on their gaming business"

"So we're selling these boxes at a loss to deliver a great end to end user experience and yes Sony is making money technically"

"Yeah that's what Peter told us and then the money would be made on the games right?"

"These days it's more about the micro transactions and subscription services but first there's an investment window to bankroll exclusives, buy studios, host events and develop new content to make Xbox more appealing than our competitors"

"Exclusives like HALO right? But that got delayed?"

"Yes, HALO is still an on going journey but we've nearly settled on a roadmap that will have the fans very excited. In the mean time we have a team dedicated to improve the experience of games already out there and our new studios are hard at work to deliver new content by 2023"

"So in conclusion, you're subsidizing AMD by selling their products at a loss, then you buy a bunch of studios that won't deliver content until 2023/2024 and in the meantime you make old and new games available in a monthly subscription that is bleeding money and rebrand things for the fun of it"

"Well we're seeing great opportunities for Xbox but that's the gist of it yes"

"So tell us Phil, why should we continue with Xbox and more importantly why should you lead it?"

"It keeps Sony from taking over personal computing and also the cloud"

"That is true, but that doesn't answer our second question. Don was a douche but he made money on this thing"

"Well, with me Xbox is not profitable but it is cool"

"You've got a point there Phil..."

"Two words gentlemen, Xbox Teams"
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Pissy F Benny on May 05, 2021, 02:11:22 PM
any news about molyneux taking over as director of the new fable?
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Tuckers Law on May 05, 2021, 05:55:34 PM
I imagine some of the big players are pissed with Tim Sweeney and his lunacy bringing about all this spilled tea.  Could make for an interesting landscape of engine use in the coming years.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Raist on May 06, 2021, 03:02:36 AM
Whoever is leaking that shit might get in a world of trouble. Those are all from the lawsuit with Apple, so the list of suspects can't be that long.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on May 06, 2021, 05:26:20 PM
Whoever is leaking that shit might get in a world of trouble. Those are all from the lawsuit with Apple, so the list of suspects can't be that long.
I'm leaning towards Apple, these leaks hurt Epic the most.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: benjipwns on May 06, 2021, 11:13:36 PM
I'm pretty sure these are from unsealed documents filed with the court, those are all public. Some gamer lawyer is just sharing them out by looking them up. Happens all the time in cases, it's not illegal or "leaking" other than you need access to the state/federal/local court database which every law firm would have.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Don Rumata on May 06, 2021, 11:20:50 PM
Having to read more then 3 lines of text is illegal.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Joe Molotov on May 07, 2021, 10:49:17 AM
Having to read more then 3 lines of text is illegal.

That's why you just wait for the funny parts to get highlighted, like "Tim Sweeney asked under oath if he can identify a PS5 for some reason (he could)".
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Quaker on May 07, 2021, 02:31:48 PM
Having to read more then 3 lines of text is illegal.

That's why you just wait for the funny parts to get highlighted, like "Tim Sweeney asked under oath if he can identify a PS5 for some reason (he could)".
https://twitter.com/stephentotilo/status/1389281643798704132
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Trent Dole on May 08, 2021, 04:31:22 PM
Pretty funny considering the type of cards Nintendo used to make. :teehee
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on May 09, 2021, 02:57:52 PM
(https://thumbor.forbes.com/thumbor/fit-in/1200x0/filters%3Aformat%28jpg%29/https%3A%2F%2Fblogs-images.forbes.com%2Folliebarder%2Ffiles%2F2018%2F04%2Fshuntarofurukawa_nintendo-1200x675.jpg)

"Nintendo denies any involvement with the Yakuza. We only want to say we wish Mr. Sweeney many safe miles traveling the roads in Virginia especially when he has to switch lanes on the I-95"
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on May 10, 2021, 12:52:10 PM
The Coalition has announced they're moving to Unreal Engine 5.

Quote
THE COALITION MOVING TO NEXT-GEN DEVELOPMENT, UNREAL ENGINE 5

At The Coalition, we pride ourselves on delivering the best possible Gears of War games and the best possible game performance using cutting-edge tools like Unreal Engine. We wanted to update our fans on both of those things.

Thank you to all the fans out there who have been on this journey with us. During a worldwide pandemic and working from home, the team launched a first strategy title, Gears Tactics; re-launched Gears 5 and Tactics on Xbox Series X|S hardware with performance upgrades and features; revamped Gears 5 multiplayer with a ton of content and updates; and capped the year with the first mainline campaign expansion – Gears 5: Hivebusters – in almost a decade. As we look to future games, we’re excited to start shifting our resources to next-gen development using Unreal Engine 5. Gears of War has always been at the front of Unreal Engine development – as a breakout 720p title for Xbox 360 through last year’s 120FPS multiplayer update for Xbox Series X|S – and we’re excited to continue that tradition by developing on UE5 for multiple new projects in the coming years.

What does this mean for our current titles? 

Gears 5 has content on the way, and we’ll continue to release new operations through Operations 7 and 8. Each Operation will have two drops including new characters, new maps, and special events. Through the end of the year, we will have store updates with exciting new content as well as featured playlists.

Shifting to a new engine is a big undertaking, so we want to be clear that we will not be announcing any new projects or titles for some time.

Last, our amazing team needs more exceptional professionals to help us continue to push the envelope, so, we’re hiring!

Thanks again to all of our fans. We’re eager to get to work and show you what we’re working on when the time is right.

The Coalition
I would say Gears 6 by 2025?
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Pissy F Benny on May 10, 2021, 01:02:06 PM
i'd say who gives a shit, the last two gears have been ehhh at best :trumps
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on May 10, 2021, 01:17:59 PM
I wonder when Retro Studios will announce they've bought pen and paper to starting writing the script for Metroid Prime 4rever  :teehee
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: naff on May 10, 2021, 08:25:13 PM
https://twitter.com/JeffGrubb/status/1391223951225876483

tbh, would be pretty comfortable betting MP4 becomes the best selling entry in the series. even if it isn't rated a top tier entry w nerds, it will smash 3 million units simply because it's on a popular console, will have a decent marketing budget and is guaranteed to be more focused on accessibility
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Rahxephon91 on May 10, 2021, 11:33:52 PM
Can't wait till Retro makes a modest-looking Samus and the ghouls at neogaf and co cry about sjw pandering female character designs.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: HardcoreRetro on May 11, 2021, 07:08:42 AM
Which is great since Resetera'll still cry and whine about boobplates or whatever tiny thing and I get to sit on the sides laughing at the distinguished mentally-challenged on display.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: MMaRsu on May 11, 2021, 07:50:59 AM
Metroid Prime 4 🤣

Yea right
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: MMaRsu on May 11, 2021, 07:59:26 AM
Can't wait till Retro makes a modest-looking Samus and the ghouls at neogaf and co cry about sjw pandering female character designs.

Modest compared to what?
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Don Rumata on May 11, 2021, 11:17:45 AM
Can't wait till Retro makes a modest-looking Samus and the ghouls at neogaf and co cry about sjw pandering female character designs.

Modest compared to what?
Zero Suit Samus? ZSS has always been fucking stupid.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: MMaRsu on May 11, 2021, 11:25:07 AM
🤷🏼‍♂️ who cares about zero suit samus
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: mormapope on May 11, 2021, 12:42:30 PM
I dunno, a slim but curvy blonde that wrecks everything is pretty cool. Samus just needs more defined abs, biceps, and thighs.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on May 11, 2021, 01:02:18 PM
Read that post in Paulie's voice and I'm fucking cackling
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: naff on May 11, 2021, 06:52:24 PM
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/78c3530ba4d3b14344317bb84d69fe44/tumblr_pi28k6d1vg1roa3hb_540.jpg)

what are ya some kinda finook? defined abs and biceps, oof madone. ever heard of an exoskeleton?

Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: MMaRsu on May 11, 2021, 07:05:51 PM
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/78c3530ba4d3b14344317bb84d69fe44/tumblr_pi28k6d1vg1roa3hb_540.jpg)

what are ya some kinda finook? defined abs and biceps, oof madone. ever heard of an exoskeleton?

Ridley
yes

Samus
I thought I was daed but I manuged to get the drip on him.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: paprikastaude on May 12, 2021, 01:50:18 PM
https://twitter.com/JeffGrubb/status/1391223951225876483

tbh, would be pretty comfortable betting MP4 becomes the best selling entry in the series. even if it isn't rated a top tier entry w nerds, it will smash 3 million units simply because it's on a popular console, will have a decent marketing budget and is guaranteed to be more focused on accessibility

Just like Metroid Prime 3. Which came out during a phase when Wii still sold other core games like Resident Evil and Call of Duty too. :mike

At this point, the biggest benefit would probably be all those gaming newcomers that became familiar with the term Metroidvania.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on May 12, 2021, 02:56:49 PM
I expect Metroid Prime 4 will either launch with new hardware or ends up getting canned.

Unlike many other Nintendo franchises in a world of Returnal and CONTROL it will look and feel dated the day it launches.
Unless they find some sort of angle I don't see a market for a first person shooter like this on the Switch.

With Metroid Prime they managed to continue and expand on the 'environmental storytelling' of Half Life and delivered great visuals at the time.
With Prime 2 they already had to resort to gimmicks and work HALO-like elements into their marketing and presentation.
Then with Prime 3 they went all in on the control gimmicks, which worked great but could not hide the fact that visually it was even less interesting than Metroid Prime 1.

They would either need a BOTW style gameplay overhaul, which is unlikely given the development history or find a way to at least match FPS games from even 5 years ago.
If they target the current Switch I expect it will look and play like a game they should've released at launch and not at the tail end of the generation.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Svejk on May 12, 2021, 03:32:28 PM
At this point, I'd almost rather they just remake the trilogy and not bother with MP4.  Even with updated hardware, I still wouldn't expect much.  Let another, smaller team do a solid 2.5D Metroid 5 and call it a day.  :doge
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Tuckers Law on May 12, 2021, 05:56:57 PM
They can take all the time they want with Metroid Prime 4 to make it right, just give us a new 2d Metroid in the meantime.  Reuse the Samus Returns engine if that’s what it takes.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Don Rumata on May 13, 2021, 02:43:24 AM
Why not have a proper AAA open world (as in MetroidVania open world, not GTA open world) 3rd person Metroid?  ???

When MP1 was announced, people were skeptical about the first person, but then it worked, no? They could go ahead and try something new again.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on May 13, 2021, 06:59:47 AM
Why not have a proper AAA open world (as in MetroidVania open world, not GTA open world) 3rd person Metroid?  ???

When MP1 was announced, people were skeptical about the first person, but then it worked, no? They could go ahead and try something new again.
I think it could work as a sort of Nier Automata type game, where Samus lands on a planet and has to figure out through logs and exploring the environment (much like Prime 1) what the hell happened.
But Retro Studios does not have the team to develop something like that. Not to mention that on Nintendo's side these are the same producers that did games like Metroid Prime: Federation Force and Luigi's Mansion 2.

I know that Retro hired some former Crytek, 343i artists etc. but I haven't seen a big hire in the form of a producer/director to take on such a big project.
One of the bigger names announced was Dylan Jobe in 2020 as director of development who worked on games like COD:MW and Warhawk.
Given what their team looks like they are most likely working on a first or perhaps a third person shooter.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: BIONIC on May 13, 2021, 10:06:18 AM
Why not have a proper AAA open world (as in MetroidVania open world, not GTA open world) 3rd person Metroid?  ???

When MP1 was announced, people were skeptical about the first person, but then it worked, no? They could go ahead and try something new again.

Because manbabies endlessly bitched and moaned hysterically about every single aspect of Other M, and since Nintendo are conservative Giant Dads they just went back to the guaranteed crowd pleaser  :trumps
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Pissy F Benny on May 13, 2021, 10:41:49 AM
I only played a little bit of it but other m seemed like a decent enough game and I've never fully understood the hate for it, although tbf  I'm not a metroid dude at all and largely ignore the franchise :trumps
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Tuckers Law on May 13, 2021, 02:31:45 PM
It was not a great Metroid game but people did overreact.  Even with all the “weapon not authorized” and baby shit, it’s still a better game than Last of Us 2.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Rahxephon91 on May 13, 2021, 05:11:11 PM
Fuck no.


spoiler (click to show/hide)
I’ve only played Other M. I thought it was ok. Prime games don’t interest me
[close]
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on May 13, 2021, 05:42:47 PM
Metroid: Other M was pretty weird and not very good.

Between the Where's Waldo sections that entirely froze the gameplay, the cringe CG movies that were supposed to tell an 'engaging story', visuals that weren't as good as Metroid Prime on the GameCube or Ninja Gaiden on the Xbox and the shitty soundtrack it had few redeeming qualities. What i liked most about it was the Ninja Gaiden like gameplay. They had only 2 buttons to work with, because the entire game was played with the Wii Remote but it worked pretty well. Because of how weak the end game was you could also tell they rushed it out the door and wanted to move on from the project. The development art was genuinely great though and so were the ideas they had to expand the Metroid universe. But the final product did not reflect that at all and was just a bit of a mess and mostly forgettable. I can't think of a single environment or boss that stood out in the entire game.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Trent Dole on May 17, 2021, 02:41:01 PM
3D Metroid has not had a very good batting average. :doge
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on May 17, 2021, 03:11:59 PM
I remember Nintendo releasing a Metroid quake mod for Nintendo DS with a character that was both a sniper and invisible.  :doge

https://twitter.com/TheOnion/status/1394355847187345416 (https://twitter.com/TheOnion/status/1394355847187345416)
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Skullfuckers Anonymous on May 17, 2021, 05:57:07 PM
You all should’ve been careful about what you wish for, we’re getting a console world war.

https://mobile.twitter.com/HenryKrinkIe/status/1394322070939570184
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Beezy on May 18, 2021, 07:02:17 PM
I remember Nintendo releasing a Metroid quake mod for Nintendo DS with a character that was both a sniper and invisible.  :doge
I spent more time online with that game than anyone should. :lol
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on May 20, 2021, 01:09:09 PM
https://twitter.com/PiersHR/status/1395271020249034753 (https://twitter.com/PiersHR/status/1395271020249034753)
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Human Snorenado on May 20, 2021, 01:47:49 PM
Sales are going to mean fuck all until there's no supply constraints, tho

:yeshrug
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Trent Dole on May 21, 2021, 04:39:59 AM
That's years away.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Human Snorenado on May 21, 2021, 12:28:47 PM
Right, so I mean I guess give a shit about this "war" if you want? It's dumb. I'm still of the opinion that more people overall want Sony's exclusives but MS will sell a shit ton of gamepass subs to people who hate themselves enough to play like, infinite B tier games. It's whatever. The switch is obviously outselling everything but it's on older hardware so is this even a war? How do you score it?
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on May 21, 2021, 03:51:45 PM
In terms of war...
While Soyny (Germany) and Microsoft (USSR) have dug in along the borders of their empires in a war of attrition, the highly skilled legions of Soyny are slaughtering the endless hordes that Microsoft sends to the front to no avail.
But the Empire of Nintendo has succesfully conquered the rest of Eurasia all around them. Closing in on the capital of Soyny.

Meanwhile the PC market (United States) is sitting high and dry across the ocean but is annoyed by the disruption of their supply lines.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Human Snorenado on May 21, 2021, 04:57:17 PM
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/HX7pvh1mIqImc/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47du9c1a045mgtprmps47854wqa9r10iazr04kipi5&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: mormapope on May 22, 2021, 11:51:53 AM
All major platforms are successful and every major publisher is doing well. Gauging different elements, Nintendo imo has "won" the war. They manufacture a console that is inexpensive to manufacture that continues to sell.

The Switch will most likely reach PS2 level sales when it's all said and done. Bouncing back like that after the Wii-U is astonishing.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on May 22, 2021, 12:01:23 PM
All major platforms are successful and every major publisher is doing well. Gauging different elements, Nintendo imo has "won" the war. They manufacture a console that is inexpensive to manufacture that continues to sell.

The Switch will most likely reach PS2 level sales when it's all said and done. Bouncing back like that after the Wii-U is astonishing.
Nintendo is rolling out the T34's while Sony can't find parts for their Tigers
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: tiesto on May 22, 2021, 04:42:22 PM
All major platforms are successful and every major publisher is doing well. Gauging different elements, Nintendo imo has "won" the war. They manufacture a console that is inexpensive to manufacture that continues to sell.

The Switch will most likely reach PS2 level sales when it's all said and done. Bouncing back like that after the Wii-U is astonishing.

Plus there seems a much greater variety of games to play over the last 5 or so years than there were in the 360/PS3 and early PS4/Bone gen (2010-2014). I can't really think of any particular market that might be 'underserved' unless you exclusively play like extreme sports or strategy RPGs.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Human Snorenado on May 22, 2021, 07:58:49 PM
That's the thing- everything is getting made right now. EVERYTHING. Every indulgent niche whatever is out there. CRPGs in the mold of Torment to dumb shit that should be incinerated rather than played like Shenmue III, it's all out there. There's no reason for any segment of video game fandom to be sad right now, unless you want to play shit that's only on the new hardware and you can't buy a PS5 or Xbox series whatever
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on May 25, 2021, 04:04:39 PM
A new challenger approaches

https://twitter.com/arstechnica/status/1397272770220806159 (https://twitter.com/arstechnica/status/1397272770220806159)
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on May 25, 2021, 04:42:43 PM
A new challenger approaches

https://twitter.com/arstechnica/status/1397272770220806159 (https://twitter.com/arstechnica/status/1397272770220806159)

Interesting.  There's already several of these out -I just got the GPD Win 3 and it's a powerful little PC that's the size of a Switch Lite, holy shit- but they're all made by Chinese manufacturers and customer support isn't as good as it could be.  If they can stay competitive and price it well, it could be big.  Or this could just fizzle out like the Alienware model did.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Raist on May 26, 2021, 12:51:55 AM
Makes sense, Steam Machines did so well.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: naff on May 26, 2021, 04:18:33 PM
seems extremely niche to me
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Potato on May 27, 2021, 12:07:05 AM
The Switch works because of its simplicity.

No one ever called PC gaming simple.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on May 27, 2021, 04:39:52 PM
That's the thing- everything is getting made right now. EVERYTHING. Every indulgent niche whatever is out there. CRPGs in the mold of Torment to dumb shit that should be incinerated rather than played like Shenmue III, it's all out there. There's no reason for any segment of video game fandom to be sad right now, unless you want to play shit that's only on the new hardware and you can't buy a PS5 or Xbox series whatever

Not everything is made now. I hate this cliche modern gamers say. There's plenty to buy but not every niche is filled.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: MMaRsu on May 27, 2021, 04:58:22 PM
Can I fill your niche Cindy?  :-*
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Human Snorenado on May 27, 2021, 05:49:50 PM
That's the thing- everything is getting made right now. EVERYTHING. Every indulgent niche whatever is out there. CRPGs in the mold of Torment to dumb shit that should be incinerated rather than played like Shenmue III, it's all out there. There's no reason for any segment of video game fandom to be sad right now, unless you want to play shit that's only on the new hardware and you can't buy a PS5 or Xbox series whatever

Not everything is made now. I hate this cliche modern gamers say. There's plenty to buy but not every niche is filled.

I feel like the statement "there is a greater variety of games being made now than ever before" is true.

You're probably mad because major publishers aren't doing weird shit, which, like, fair. But it's out there, maybe not with the budget you want it to have. *shrugs*

You probably still just big mad because you got your wish with a Shenmue III release and it sucked big fucking donkey balls, just like I told you it would.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: paprikastaude on May 27, 2021, 06:02:53 PM
arcade racers shouldn't be dead. Other than that, 2015- to now is some of the best gaming time since the 90s.

I can go to a retail store and pick up a new Streets of Rage, a new Igavania, a Yakuza that isn't 5 years late and censored, all kinds of Resident Evil, a Mizuguchi version of Tetris, Devil May Cry, a legit competent Crash Bandicoot, old-school feeling Doom, bunch a new Samurai IPs, good Megaman, an actual inventive Ninja Theory title like Hellblade, the best Remedy game Control, a definitive version of THPS, soon a Tales of game that looks like it has a budget, etc.

Imagine such a statement during the PS360 days - it would've been a total dream :lol :yuck  Had to have fun trawling through a bunch of CoD/Gears lookalikes, broken Bethesda RPGs and sports games to maybe find some minor variety. And even compared to PS2 it might be better in some areas now, since some things like Visual Novels didn't exist then, or real good homeconsole 2D games were dead in the water outside some drips from Konami.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on May 27, 2021, 10:14:39 PM
That's the thing- everything is getting made right now. EVERYTHING. Every indulgent niche whatever is out there. CRPGs in the mold of Torment to dumb shit that should be incinerated rather than played like Shenmue III, it's all out there. There's no reason for any segment of video game fandom to be sad right now, unless you want to play shit that's only on the new hardware and you can't buy a PS5 or Xbox series whatever

Not everything is made now. I hate this cliche modern gamers say. There's plenty to buy but not every niche is filled.
I feel like the statement "there is a greater variety of games being made now than ever before" is true.

You're probably mad because major publishers aren't doing weird shit, which, like, fair. But it's out there, maybe not with the budget you want it to have. *shrugs*

You probably still just big mad because you got your wish with a Shenmue III release and it sucked big fucking donkey balls, just like I told you it would.

Like I said, it depends on the genre.

Arcade racers, rail shooter numbers are dire. Budgets are so high and risk is lower. There's a lot of games being made, but the number of hardcore jrpgs that I like playing are lighter. There's specifically a problem with diversity within specific genres. For example, there's tons of fighting games being made today but 3D fighters are all but dead except when it's Tekken or Soul Calibur. Jrpgs are doing good but they're mostly extremely story-oriented games. Games like SMT3 HD come out to little fanfare, will likely bomb, and SMTV likely won't be as much of a dungeon crawler as past games. Stealth has gone to the wayside. 3D platformers are mostly dead and when they're resurrected - besides Mario - they're almost always crap. So there's more games being made, but less variety within certain genres when in the past things were more varied.

Take RPGs, again. Final Fantasy XVI is going to be an action-based game. They're got Team Ninja working on another action-based Final Fantasy. And FFVII Remake was sort of action-based too. But what if I just want a traditional FF experience that's not trying to be an action game? I'm shit out of luck. So you say there's more being made, but in actuality its less in terms of variety. I, as a player, have less options for my tastes compared to twenty years ago. I'm locked in and if I want to play a turn based game I have to settle for something mediocre like one of those Bravely games when I before, I ate rich food. Now i'm fed scraps. How many turn-based jrpgs are really being made? Far less than 20 years ago. Action rpgs have become so far the norm that turn-based is basically niche now, but I prefer turn-based unless it's Souls or Ys.

Depending on your taste,"look at all these games being made!" means very little. In fact, I think it means jack shit. Where's the survival horror besides Resident Evil? Where's the Clock Tower? Silent Hill's? Fatal Frame? Something new that rocks the boat? That entire genre is held up by RE at this point. The industry has shifted so far from my tastes and wants. This also supposes that all of these games are good. Quantity != quality.

I hate Shenmue III. Please do not mention it again.

That said, I'll definitely compliment the current gaming landscape. It's pretty good and you have a lot of options. But the broad brush "anyone can find anything for their tastes these days" is pretty LOL to me. I haven't even gotten into open-world games, a genre I used to love but now can't stand (love BOTW though).
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on May 28, 2021, 12:18:13 AM
I am glad to see there are at least some good games that have come out in the genres that don't have as much representation these days.  Want to play a good stealth game?  Aragami has you covered.  The sequel is coming this year.  We got two good arcade racers with Hotshot Racing and Inertial Drift last year.  Rail shooters...uh...enjoy the Panzer Dragoon remake or Gal*Gun, I guess, lol.  But House Of The Dead is coming soon.  Just because Square isn't making as many turn-based RPGs doesn't mean others aren't- what about those Trails games, for example?  Have you tried the Atelier games?  Or Yakuza Like A Dragon?

Couldn't say which games are good since I don't tend to play a lot of survival horror type games, but there's a pretty good number of them available on PC.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on May 28, 2021, 05:59:26 AM
Your rpg examples just prove you're given scraps these days. No offense to Atelier series or Trails series. Trails games are not gameplay focused romps. They're 100 hour long story games. The fact I have to settle Atelier just makes my point for me. Ten years ago Atelier was bottom feeder rpg status. Now it's something you have to play if you want a semblance of turn based RPG gameplay. Yakuza 7 looks good though and is the most interesting jrpg I've seen in years. Unfortunately my PS4 is still in another state.

A panzaer dragoon remake means jack shit to me. Panzer 1 has been released how many times? I'm glad Zwei is being remade but like :yeshrugn These are dead genres. Light gun games are okay, but I prefer rail shooters, which is why I said those and not light guns.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: HardcoreRetro on May 28, 2021, 06:31:20 AM
But what if I just want a traditional FF experience that's not trying to be an action game? I'm shit out of luck.

It's called Bravely Default 2 which released not too long ago. It's the spiritual succesor to the Four Heroes of Light DS game that in turn was a title based on the first 3 Final Fantasy games.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on May 28, 2021, 07:02:47 AM
But what if I just want a traditional FF experience that's not trying to be an action game? I'm shit out of luck.

It's called Bravely Default 2 which released not too long ago. It's the spiritual succesor to the Four Heroes of Light DS game that in turn was a title based on the first 3 Final Fantasy games.

I mentioned Bravely games in my post and think that team and their games are mediocre. I'm going to get it eventually, but again, scraps. My least my favorite kind of scrap while we're at it. "Do you remember??" nostalgia infused scraps. I tried the demo to BD2 and fell asleep.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on May 28, 2021, 07:22:55 AM
Your rpg examples just prove you're given scraps these days. No offense to Atelier series or Trails series. Trails games are not gameplay focused romps. They're 100 hour long story games. The fact I have to settle Atelier just makes my point for me. Ten years ago Atelier was bottom feeder rpg status. Now it's something you have to play if you want a semblance of turn based RPG gameplay. Yakuza 7 looks good though and is the most interesting jrpg I've seen in years. Unfortunately my PS4 is still in another state.

Or it's because Atelier games have gotten better.  I cited those two series because I know them from recent releases- I'm not big into JRPGs so there's probably a lot more stuff out there.  I'm just not as familiar with them. 

A panzaer dragoon remake means jack shit to me. Panzer 1 has been released how many times? I'm glad Zwei is being remade but like :yeshrugn These are dead genres. Light gun games are okay, but I prefer rail shooters, which is why I said those and not light guns.

How many times has Dragon Quest III been re-released?  Doesn't seem to have killed your excitement there.  Rail shooters have never been a particularly-huge genre.  I would recommend checking out some indie games like GRIDD Retroenhanced.  And I guess Pokemon Snap counts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rC_MCCe0KRU
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: HardcoreRetro on May 28, 2021, 07:35:21 AM
If it's doing exactly what those original games are doing and you figure out it wasn't actually that good. Maybe the originals weren't that good to begin with?
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Svejk on May 28, 2021, 08:01:35 AM
I find it hard to go back to certain genres I adored back in the PS1 era... Some have evolved greatly... some, not so much.  That being said, a lot of people's tastes and expectations have evolved greatly too.  I get flippy floppy on wanting to stick with classic, tried and true gameplay, but I want those built on too at the same time.  Guess it's hard to find that balance to tick all the boxes.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on May 28, 2021, 08:05:15 AM
I find it hard to go back to certain genres I adored back in the PS1 era... Some have evolved greatly... some, not so much.  That being said, a lot of people's tastes and expectations have evolved greatly too.  I get flippy floppy on wanting to stick with classic, tried and true gameplay, but I want those built on too at the same time.  Guess it's hard to find that balance to tick all the boxes.

What genres?  Some games haven't aged well, but I dunno about entire genres.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: HardcoreRetro on May 28, 2021, 08:18:24 AM
Cindi also seems to be forgetting that when you look backwards you see everything all at once.

Phantasy Star
Dragon Warrior
Phantasy Star II
Final Fantasy
Destiny of an Emperor
Dragon Warrior II
Final Fantasy Legend, The
Sword of Vermilion
Phantasy Star III: Generations of Doom
Final Fantasy Legend II
Final Fantasy II

These were released from 1988 to 1991 so a span of 4 years.

Kemco RPG Omnibus
Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE Encore
Snack World: The Dungeon Crawl Gold
Persona 5 Royal
Final Fantasy VII Remake
Xenoblade Chronicles: Definitive Edition
Little Town Hero
Paper Mario: The Origami King
Fairy Tail
Nexomon: Extinction
Death end re;Quest 2
Moon: Remix RPG Adventure
CrossCode
Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel IV, The
Yakuza: Like a Dragon
Dragon Quest XI S: Echoes of an Elusive Age - Definitive Edition
Witch Spring 3 Re:Fine -The Story of the Marionette Witch Eirudy-

These were released in 2020.

(Special thanks to Landail for doing his insane Twitch run of all console rpgs ever released.)
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Svejk on May 28, 2021, 08:18:51 AM
I find it hard to go back to certain genres I adored back in the PS1 era... Some have evolved greatly... some, not so much.  That being said, a lot of people's tastes and expectations have evolved greatly too.  I get flippy floppy on wanting to stick with classic, tried and true gameplay, but I want those built on too at the same time.  Guess it's hard to find that balance to tick all the boxes.

What genres?  Some games haven't aged well, but I dunno about entire genres.
3D Action games have evolved nicely I'd say, but that genre was in it's infancy during the PS1 era.  But like Cindy mentioned, JRPGS were practically all rock solid and stunning during that era... Now, I can't even stand to look at the art direction of some...   Like Xenoblade Chronicles 2 for example.  FFVIIR is one exception where they successfully tied in everything that was great from the OG and built on top of it with great strides. 
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on May 28, 2021, 08:35:41 AM
I find it hard to go back to certain genres I adored back in the PS1 era... Some have evolved greatly... some, not so much.  That being said, a lot of people's tastes and expectations have evolved greatly too.  I get flippy floppy on wanting to stick with classic, tried and true gameplay, but I want those built on too at the same time.  Guess it's hard to find that balance to tick all the boxes.

What genres?  Some games haven't aged well, but I dunno about entire genres.
3D Action games have evolved nicely I'd say, but that genre was in it's infancy during the PS1 era.  But like Cindy mentioned, JRPGS were practically all rock solid and stunning during that era... Now, I can't even stand to look at the art direction of some...   Like Xenoblade Chronicles 2 for example.  FFVIIR is one exception where they successfully tied in everything that was great from the OG and built on top of it with great strides.

Oh, you mean anime tiddy.
:exxy

That's not applicable to the entire genre.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Svejk on May 28, 2021, 08:46:14 AM
I find it hard to go back to certain genres I adored back in the PS1 era... Some have evolved greatly... some, not so much.  That being said, a lot of people's tastes and expectations have evolved greatly too.  I get flippy floppy on wanting to stick with classic, tried and true gameplay, but I want those built on too at the same time.  Guess it's hard to find that balance to tick all the boxes.

What genres?  Some games haven't aged well, but I dunno about entire genres.
3D Action games have evolved nicely I'd say, but that genre was in it's infancy during the PS1 era.  But like Cindy mentioned, JRPGS were practically all rock solid and stunning during that era... Now, I can't even stand to look at the art direction of some...   Like Xenoblade Chronicles 2 for example.  FFVIIR is one exception where they successfully tied in everything that was great from the OG and built on top of it with great strides.

Oh, you mean anime tiddy.
:exxy

That's not applicable to the entire genre.
It's not, but it feels like all my younger days, favorite JRPG series have for the most part; Phantasy Star, Shining Series, Xeno series...
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on May 28, 2021, 09:40:16 AM
I find it hard to go back to certain genres I adored back in the PS1 era... Some have evolved greatly... some, not so much.  That being said, a lot of people's tastes and expectations have evolved greatly too.  I get flippy floppy on wanting to stick with classic, tried and true gameplay, but I want those built on too at the same time.  Guess it's hard to find that balance to tick all the boxes.

What genres?  Some games haven't aged well, but I dunno about entire genres.
3D Action games have evolved nicely I'd say, but that genre was in it's infancy during the PS1 era.  But like Cindy mentioned, JRPGS were practically all rock solid and stunning during that era... Now, I can't even stand to look at the art direction of some...   Like Xenoblade Chronicles 2 for example.  FFVIIR is one exception where they successfully tied in everything that was great from the OG and built on top of it with great strides.

Oh, you mean anime tiddy.
:exxy

That's not applicable to the entire genre.
It's not, but it feels like all my younger days, favorite JRPG series have for the most part; Phantasy Star, Shining Series, Xeno series...

Phantasy Star IV featured a half-nekkid catgirl.  Shining went full uguu~ for sure, will give you that, but it's not really so pervy from what I remember?  Xenosaga featured half-nekkid androids.  Some of the character designs were tamer back then, but they were 'pervy' for the time.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: paprikastaude on May 28, 2021, 12:30:29 PM
Downplaying current games as a whole because the RPG action/turnbased ration has inverted. :doge  And all that a day after new DQ announcements, and after Yakuza has been confirmed for more RPG entries and SMTV is about to release. And the next Fire Emblem already rumoured. Okay then.  :doge

Also, every generation had deficits. Maybe back then you were flooded with Final Fantasy clones, but didn't get nearly as much A-RPG as now. After the PS1, 2D home console games from bigger publishers were just dead. Then 3D platformers died outside Mario/Sonic. Beat'em'Ups also. All that came back in the last generation. Visual Novels weren't even localized back in the day, now they come out. There's a retail release of fucking Wonderboy these days. A remaster of freaking The Silver Case. Gaming is fire right now for fans of mid-budget, weird and Japanese games and if I must, I'll sacrifice another rail shooter for it. No arcade racers is the only thing I'm irritated about.

Rail shooters have never been a particularly-huge genre. 

Classic Survival Horror neither. After RE and SH, there was a big quality gap, a few decent games like Dino Crisis and Fatal Frame maybe, then just junk. Also, while not horror, but still narrative-wise, Hellblade is like a new Silent Hill but with vikings.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: bork on May 28, 2021, 01:27:09 PM
No arcade racers is the only thing I'm irritated about.

There's that Sonic Team Racing (thought it was kinda crap though) game, CTR, Hotshot Racing, and Inertial Drift, plus more indie racers on PC, like this one coming soon:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJXAPNNBo5M
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Nintex on May 28, 2021, 02:06:15 PM
Gaming these days is pretty awesome in many ways.

When you have a game on your mind that isn't super niche you can probably find it upscaled, improved or remastered on 2 or more systems.
Even games that were locked behind strange console exclusivity for a long time (Super Mario Sunshine / Nier Replicant) are starting to be released on other platforms.

And if that's no option than PC's have become powerful enough to emulate basically anything.
If there's a multiplayer game you like than it will probably be expanded upon for the forseeable future with new content and seasons, keeping things fresh.

I loved tinkering with Half Life mods back in the day but this is just an entirely different ball game.
Plus gaming culture is only getting bigger. I remember it was difficult to find any merchandise unless you knew where to find stuff imported from Japan.
Hell, it was difficult to find certain games that were limited in print. Now you can get 99% of them whenever you want digitally.

And finally there's a whole bunch of platforms just giving away good games for free or peanuts.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: HardcoreRetro on May 28, 2021, 02:21:42 PM
I'm finally ready for the console war. Just plugged in the Series X next to the PS5.

When can I expect them to start fighting?
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Lonewulfeus on May 28, 2021, 03:25:56 PM
I find it hard to go back to certain genres I adored back in the PS1 era... Some have evolved greatly... some, not so much.  That being said, a lot of people's tastes and expectations have evolved greatly too.  I get flippy floppy on wanting to stick with classic, tried and true gameplay, but I want those built on too at the same time.  Guess it's hard to find that balance to tick all the boxes.

What genres?  Some games haven't aged well, but I dunno about entire genres.
3D Action games have evolved nicely I'd say, but that genre was in it's infancy during the PS1 era.  But like Cindy mentioned, JRPGS were practically all rock solid and stunning during that era... Now, I can't even stand to look at the art direction of some...   Like Xenoblade Chronicles 2 for example.  FFVIIR is one exception where they successfully tied in everything that was great from the OG and built on top of it with great strides.

Oh, you mean anime tiddy.
:exxy

That's not applicable to the entire genre.
It's not, but it feels like all my younger days, favorite JRPG series have for the most part; Phantasy Star, Shining Series, Xeno series...

Phantasy Star IV featured a half-nekkid catgirl.  Shining went full uguu~ for sure, will give you that, but it's not really so pervy from what I remember?  Xenosaga featured half-nekkid androids.  Some of the character designs were tamer back then, but they were 'pervy' for the time.

Pretty sure it was Star Ocean 4 that had the half naked cat girl unless phantasy Star 4 did as well.  And omg fucking Limmle :rage or however you spell her name, god the story and the characters of Star ocean 4 sucked ass but at least the combat was fun as shit.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: HardcoreRetro on May 28, 2021, 03:40:40 PM
I imagine Phantasy Star 4's Rika is probably too hot nowadays.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ESSHE1XWsAEVTh8?format=png&name=small)
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: tiesto on May 28, 2021, 09:54:46 PM
I imagine Phantasy Star 4's Rika is probably too hot nowadays.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ESSHE1XWsAEVTh8?format=png&name=small)

Some of the girls in Phantasy Star 2 were my first game char crushes as a kid  :-*

Anna and Amy and the save data girl in particular.

Love this fanart:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CMC6bEaXAAAKsgg?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Lonewulfeus on May 29, 2021, 09:47:54 PM
MLB did a spot for the Show today on Fox during the Mets game and it only mentioned Xbox and gamepass :heh
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on May 30, 2021, 03:57:36 PM
If it's doing exactly what those original games are doing and you figure out it wasn't actually that good. Maybe the originals weren't that good to begin with?

The problem is it harps on old games. That's all that team ever does. FF: WoL, Bravely Default, and now Triangle Strategy look like rip off been there done that garbage. Triangle Strategy in particular had one of the most embarrassing trailers I've ever seen. I was actually laughing at it. Pick up for game play only.

Cindi also seems to be forgetting that when you look backwards you see everything all at once.

Phantasy Star
Dragon Warrior
Phantasy Star II
Final Fantasy
Destiny of an Emperor
Dragon Warrior II
Final Fantasy Legend, The
Sword of Vermilion
Phantasy Star III: Generations of Doom
Final Fantasy Legend II
Final Fantasy II

These were released from 1988 to 1991 so a span of 4 years.

Kemco RPG Omnibus
Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE Encore
Snack World: The Dungeon Crawl Gold
Persona 5 Royal
Final Fantasy VII Remake
Xenoblade Chronicles: Definitive Edition
Little Town Hero
Paper Mario: The Origami King
Fairy Tail
Nexomon: Extinction
Death end re;Quest 2
Moon: Remix RPG Adventure
CrossCode
Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel IV, The
Yakuza: Like a Dragon
Dragon Quest XI S: Echoes of an Elusive Age - Definitive Edition
Witch Spring 3 Re:Fine -The Story of the Marionette Witch Eirudy-

These were released in 2020.

(Special thanks to Landail for doing his insane Twitch run of all console rpgs ever released.)

Why are you bringing up early 90's games? Good point though with the list. In general though, gaming isn't high on my priority list though so I have missed many of these or gotten to them yet.

Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: HardcoreRetro on May 30, 2021, 04:49:53 PM
Because you're talking about the flood of jrpgs we used to have. The yearly releases barely ever ran as high they do now. The years in which they did during the PS2 era they were also packed with the same b-tier shit you're talking about now.

I don't even understand your first point. "I want classic FF." They literally do exactly that and then you complain and when they do new shit you complain about that. I can't believe a spinoff series retains aspects of the series it is part of.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on May 30, 2021, 04:53:00 PM
Because you're talking about the flood of jrpgs we used to have. The yearly releases barely ever ran as high they do now. The years in which they did during the PS2 era they were also packed with the same b-tier shit you're talking about now.

I don't even understand your first point. "I want classic FF." They literally do exactly that and then you complain and when they do new shit you complain about that. I can't believe a spinoff series retains aspects of the series it is part of.

I didn't say I want classic FF. I said I want turn based Final Fantasy. FFXII is turned based and it's not trying to be the same FFV wannabe that Bravely games are trying to be. I love FFV but Jesus Christ, it's the same shit over and over with that developer. One aspect of FF is evolution and making things different while retaining hallmarks of tradition. Just because I say,"i want non-action based FF" doesn't mean I want the same FF regurgitated. It's pretty simple.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: HardcoreRetro on May 30, 2021, 05:23:24 PM
Is FF12 turn based? Then FF14 and FF7 Remake are turn based as well. Both are even getting new content this year.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on May 30, 2021, 07:20:29 PM
Is FF12 turn based? Then FF14 and FF7 Remake are turn based as well. Both are even getting new content this year.

FF12 is turn based. FF14 is an mmo, I've tried it multiple times and I don't have the time or will power to dump my time into it. I've devolved to watching the cutscenes on youtube. FF7 Remake is great and unique mix of real time and turn based. Very Valkyrie profile 2-esque. I like it a lot but I'm starving over here. Bravely Default is not Final Fantasy no matter how it's advertised. Imagine the life of a Final Fantasy fan. FFXIII was trash, so you go years without a new FF. FFXV is an action rpg (I like it but it's not the same). Your only options are an mmo if you like that thing, and part one of an FFVII remake that took half a decade to be made. That's within the past 10+ years since FF13's release. Then FFXVI is action-based, and they're also making another action game by Team Ninja.

Hungry out here.

Then there's no GTAVI and MGS seems to be RIP. Thank God for Nintendo and From Software. They're the only ones you can count on anymore.

Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Svejk on May 30, 2021, 07:28:48 PM
Yeah, was about say, FFVIIR sounded like it ticks all the boxes of what you want to see... But yeah, would like to see more of what they did for it.  I think with the huge success of FFVIIR, they've gotta be looking into allot more prospects.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on May 30, 2021, 07:39:32 PM
eh
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on May 30, 2021, 07:51:17 PM
This reminds me of a discussion i had on twitter about how your favorite franchises will likely out live you. Superman and Batman are almost 100 years old and have outlived many of their oldest fans. They've changed over the years and gone in directions certain fans of them don't particularly like. But they'll always be there for a new generation. I guess the question is when it's time to give it up for the new generation rather than beating a dead horse. Better to move on.

Combined with industry budgets, the sheer amount of time and manpower it takes to make a game now and I'm not really seeing much positive here.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: naff on May 30, 2021, 09:22:33 PM
i dont think we're ever going to get really streamlined focused JRPG's light on story and dialogue like FFV or early DQ's outside indie studios and remakes. even at the time FFV was originally released it was appreciated for it's gameplay but the story considered forgettable. i barely remember anything about it's world despite only playing it a few years ago, though anyone who's played VI remembers that game (and it defined a generation). i have quite specific critiques of the modernisation of FFVIIr that kinda apply to rpg's generally like the pacing is kinda thrown off at a few points with extremely dull fetch quests and some of the voice acting in towns is repetitive and triggered so frequently to the point i muted voices at a few points (when the game "opens up" after the plate falls).

still, for a style that was really borne from technical limitations that don't exist anymore there's still a lot of recent games pandering to it's fans; that new yakuza game, dq11, atelier, trails in cold steel, FFVIIr and some indie stuff like sea of stars or the upcoming suikoden successor eiyuden chronicle.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: chronovore on May 30, 2021, 09:27:43 PM
Right, so I mean I guess give a shit about this "war" if you want? It's dumb. I'm still of the opinion that more people overall want Sony's exclusives but MS will sell a shit ton of gamepass subs to people who hate themselves enough to play like, infinite B tier games. It's whatever. The switch is obviously outselling everything but it's on older hardware so is this even a war? How do you score it?

I like GamePass, but I am seriously not getting value out of it as long as I have my current bad habits of just playing Red Dead Online (PS4) and State of Decay 2 (Xbox Game Pass) forever. I should just buy SOD2 and move on.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on May 30, 2021, 09:39:08 PM
i dont think we're ever going to get really streamlined focused JRPG's light on story and dialogue like FFV or early DQ's outside indie studios and remakes. even at the time FFV was originally released it was appreciated for it's gameplay but the story considered forgettable. i barely remember anything about it's world despite only playing it a few years ago, though anyone who's played VI remembers that game (and it defined a generation). i have quite specific critiques of the modernisation of FFVIIr that kinda apply to rpg's generally like the pacing is kinda thrown off at a few points with extremely dull fetch quests and some of the voice acting in towns is repetitive and triggered so frequently to the point i muted voices at a few points (when the game "opens up" after the plate falls).

still, for a style that was really borne from technical limitations that don't exist anymore there's still a lot of recent games pandering to it's fans; that new yakuza game, dq11, atelier, trails in cold steel, FFVIIr and some indie stuff like sea of stars or the upcoming suikoden successor eiyuden chronicle.

Who said anything about FFV or early DQ? DQVIII is light on dialogue as are ps2 era SMT games (sans P3/4) and other games. Dungeon crawlers like Etrian exist. Strategy RPGs like FFT and TO. Keep shit light, keep it simple. Don't over extend. Jrpgs having constant dialogue is an actually new development. In the past, those with lots of dialogue and story (Xenosaga, Tales) were exceptions. Now even DQ can't shut the fuck up when it is famously known for minimal storytelling. Now it's less about the game adventure and more about the story they want to tell.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: naff on May 30, 2021, 09:55:05 PM
using FFV as a comparison to VI as an example of people wanting stronger stories, not necessarily the stronger game and that being a trend for a long time now. i mean, og FFVII is not a great game. SMT, tactics series, the more streamlined JRPGs have always been pretty niche. xenosaga is the other extreme imo. i haven't played the latest DQ, but DQVIII came out 17 years ago now. shit's a classic now
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on May 30, 2021, 10:01:19 PM
To typify this difference, watch the first few minutes of this.

Please mute because it's one of those idiotas talking over it.

https://youtu.be/Ym6AtD8SIoE

Old DQ is about adventure and filling in the blanks with your own imagination. So take the first minute or so of this village. You go to an island with a town  cursed with a horrific rain as all the townspeople have turned into stone. No cutscene. No explanation at all. It's just there for you to discover and ponder. The storytelling is minimal and the game world tells the story through hints and clues. It's an adventure.

Now compare with DQXI.

This game won't shut the fuck up. Gone is the minimal storytelling. Gone is the adventure and imagination. It's full of ass clowns telling me what to think, where to go, what to see, and how to play the game ruining what I love about Dragon Quest to begin with.

And every modern jrpg is like this. Pokemon won't shut the fuck up. Persona 5 won't shut the fuck up. These games hail from franchises that, in the past, let the player figure things out for themselves and didn't jam endless exposition down your throat. When I first played DQXI, the people in the thread, told me to just put the game on hard mode or something. I think these people specifically lack critical thought.

Thank fuck for Souls games. They are some of the only RPGs being made today that have the old "story through exploration" rather than "story through being spoon fed" mindset.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on May 30, 2021, 10:08:31 PM
FFVI is also a bad example. FFVI is famous for giving the player control. Yes, it has more story than FFV, but because it's not to the point where it hampers the gameplay. FFVI is actually more open and has more freedom than FFV. WoR can be beaten with four party members, you don't even have to collect all of them. The problem with modern jrpgs is that story gets in the way of gameplay. They're constantly telling you what to do, where to go, what you can do, what you can't do so they can dictate your game experience. Jrpgs have turned in VNs.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: naff on May 30, 2021, 10:32:27 PM
FFVI is also a bad example. FFVI is famous for giving the player control. Yes, it has more story than FFV, but because it's not to the point where it hampers the gameplay. FFVI is actually more open and has more freedom than FFV. WoR can be beaten with four party members, you don't even have to collect all of them. The problem with modern jrpgs is that story gets in the way of gameplay. They're constantly telling you what to do, where to go, what you can do, what you can't do so they can dictate your game experience. Jrpgs have turned in VNs.

eh, it's a superficial control at best. they let you miss characters but the game is very linear scenario wise. the feeling of freedom older FF games give players with the world map is something i've thought about a lot. it's almost entirely superficial, the games are linear, but they do a great job of making the games feel more open while being fairly simple technically; a few continents, some forests a few hidden things to find and a few scenarios you can pick and choose when to complete them (or if you want to complete them at all).

i think a big part of this is videogames being defined significantly by their technical limitations and ambition. big budget games are required to be graphical showcases and assets need to be so much more complex, you're not going to get much random content thrown in these days that you could just miss entirely. who knows, maybe the DQ creators have always wanted to communicate the characterization you loathe but haven't been able to, due to technical hurdles and smaller budgets. also time, success, big teams and money warps everything it touches. it's amazing to me these franchises have held up to this day and continue to be critically acclaimed. almost unheard of in other mediums
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on May 30, 2021, 10:37:11 PM

eh, it's a superficial control at best. they let you miss characters but the game is very linear scenario wise.

World of Ruin is linear? World of Ruin is very open-ended in how you choose to approach it.

Superficial control or not, I'm allowed to make mistakes. The game does not control me and I can choose what order I do things unlike modern games where this happens.

(https://i.imgur.com/BgUkNcy.jpg)

"Superficial" or not, I'm allowed far more freedom because it's not telling me what to do. If you think is a linear vs non-linear argument you're missing the forest for the trees.

Quote
i think a big part of this is videogames being defined significantly by their technical limitations and ambition. big budget games are required to be graphical showcases and assets need to be so much more complex, you're not going to get much random content thrown in that you could just miss entirely. who knows, maybe the DQ creators have always wanted to communicate the characterization you loathe but haven't been able to, due to technical hurdles and smaller budgets. also time, success, big teams and money warps everything it touches. it's amazing to me these franchises have held up to this day and continue to be critically acclaimed. almost unheard of in other mediums

This is a common argument but a complete assumption. DQVIII has none of this kind of characterization and they definitely had the power to achieve it. More than likely they're trying to appeal to a wider audience. In video games all creative decisions are ruled by money so it's the most reasonable target.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: naff on May 30, 2021, 10:49:40 PM
True. WoR is a brilliant conceit in that respect, but it's still just a series of colleting party members which you do or don't do before confronting the final boss. Sure it's not strictly linear, and you don't have a specific quest log ticking off for finding gau or something but it's really just a hub with optional content/quests that makes you stronger and the end game a little easier like sidequests in any rpg. Just done very, very well (every location on the map, if you haven't explored it yet essentially functioning as a quest marker). I don't know anything about the DQVIII budget or development, but i cant imagine it having nearly as much to allocate as FF since at that point the series sold terribly in the west.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on May 30, 2021, 10:54:56 PM
DQ sold poorly in the west prior to XI as well. This argument makes no sense. More than likely they upped the story crap to appeal to westerners, which is by far and away the most successful DQ outside of Japan of all time.

Westerners are ruining my weeb games basically. Reminds me when wrpgs went down the rabbithole of simplifying wrpg mechanics to the point where the genre became unrecognizable beyond aesthetics. This is a fatal flaw in video games: video games are expensive so you have to appeal to people. Unfortunately, unlike a movie or a book, games have rules. If people are unable to adjust to those rules, make the rules more simple. And that's how a hardcore dungeon crawler franchise becomes fodder for anime waifus, which are great, but JFC. The bigger budgets games get the more concessions there will be so games will always, always change for the worse to appeal to more people and then more people and finally we reach the end where all games must appeal to everyone, and Final Fantasy is an action rpg series now. Meanwhile you can still make a great movie with 1 million bucks and make a profit.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: naff on May 30, 2021, 11:07:45 PM
sure, that too. but there's also nothing to imply the scenario writers and designers on DQ11 that had also worked on so many of the prior games, didn't enjoy and lovingly create the world of DQ11 according to what they wanted to create, despite being a departure from the more minimalistic approach of prior titles.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: naff on May 30, 2021, 11:13:08 PM
also, it's not westerners it's capitalism and capitulating to market forces "destroying" your weeb games. and wrpg's are stronger and more complex than they've ever been. i've read you complaining about shit like the witcher 3 specifically like 1) that defines wrpg trends or 2) is a simple game (the build diversity and ways you can approach different scenarios is huge)

Meanwhile you can still make a great movie with 1 million bucks and make a profit.

comeon. only incredibly small, independent films are made on this kind of budget
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on May 30, 2021, 11:14:02 PM
DQXI had a new director and team. Essentially Horii is retiring. It's the new guard. I'm fucked.

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2F10dDhmdzqNhBN6%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1&nofb=1)
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on May 30, 2021, 11:16:35 PM
also, it's not westerners it's capitalism and capitulating to market forces "destroying" your weeb games. and wrpg's are stronger and more complex than they've ever been. i've read you complaining about shit like the witcher 3 specifically like 1) that defines wrpg trends or 2) is a simple game (the build diversity and ways you can approach different scenarios is huge)

Meanwhile you can still make a great movie with 1 million bucks and make a profit.

comeon. only incredibly small, independent films are made on this kind of budget

This is a realization I had a while back: that capitalism destroys the things I love even my hobbies that it birthed for me. Capitalism gives and it taketh away. The bastard.  :rage

Wrpgs bounced back, I never denied that. My hope is that jrpgs unfuck themselves with this try hard anime story telling hour bullshit. Get it out of your system and let people play games again. If I wanted a goddamn mother fucking VN I'd install Danganronpa.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: thetylerrob on May 30, 2021, 11:20:54 PM
DQ11 is one of the best in the series and 7 is one of the wordiest.  :doge
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on May 30, 2021, 11:24:54 PM
DQ11 is one of the best in the series and 7 is one of the wordiest.  :doge

VII is the best. :heartbeat VII is only wordy because of its girth of content. It just keeps going and going until you hit pubic bone.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: naff on May 30, 2021, 11:54:59 PM
DQXI had a new director and team. Essentially Horii is retiring. It's the new guard. I'm fucked.

was horii not lead scenario writer/designer on all of them even the heartbeat ones? seems like nearly every entry has had different teams and directors working on it with horii being the throughline
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: HardcoreRetro on May 31, 2021, 05:25:14 AM
FF12 is turn based.

It's not. Then any game with cooldown timers on special attacks is turn based. God of War 2018 was my favourite turn based rpg.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Himu on May 31, 2021, 09:46:01 AM
FF12 is turn based.

It's not. Then any game with cooldown timers on special attacks is turn based. God of War 2018 was my favourite turn based rpg.

I'm not getting into this argument and will not dignify a response past this post. It's essentially arguing ATB isn't a turn based system but "time based" ignoring you can play every ATB game on something called wait mode which is the same thing but without time added. The time is only there to give the game more oomph (i.e. knowing you'll be attacked while going through menus). FFXII is ATB in reverse. This argument is always stupid. It's still a command based RPG. Who cares. Guess Valkyrie Profile aren't turn based games to you either because you do combos. Vapid reasoning.

https://youtu.be/W0IWo9MtIao

Ah yes, let's compare this....to God of War. Surely it's not turn based. Right. :heh Talking about RPG gameplay with gamers is like banging my foot with a hammer. Always comes down to some dumbass semantic argument.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: HardcoreRetro on May 31, 2021, 12:00:09 PM
By your reasoning MMOs are turn based as well. Everything is on a timer. Xenoblade Chronicles is also turn based.
Title: Re: The coming console war
Post by: Rahxephon91 on May 31, 2021, 02:26:36 PM
But the difference is FFXII, abilities aren't on a cooldown. The entire character is.

FFXII is just the atb on the field, meaning no transition to a battle screen. You're comparing it to Xenoblade or WoW, but it's not really the same. Xenoblade is all about managing cooldowns, positioning, and even combining the abilities. But it's not like you press the stagger attack and then can't do the dazed attack right after. In XII, you can only do one attack per atb turn. Comparing this to GoW is wrong, again it's not like once Kratos uses his cooldown he can't do anything else while it's filling up.

I mean I think calling it a cooldown is pretty incorrect. When people use the term cooldown for games they are usually talking about timers for specific abilities, not the entire characters action. For that they say turn.