Sell your Republicans, it's all over

[Mandark]

The best thing George W Bush ever did was sour a generation of Americans on the Republican party.


And before anyone says it, no, youth voters aren't always incurably liberal.

[Phoenix Dark]

True, but they don't vote and become less liberal as time passes

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Romney 2008, just watch

[close]

[Flannel Boy]

According to that survey, Republicans still have an edge among white youths. How much of this is the result of shifting racial demographics? Also, interestingly, while Democrats lead among all educational backgrounds, their smallest lead is among college grads and their biggest is among high school grads or less.

[Phoenix Dark]

I tend to think a mormon has a better chance of winning than a woman or "half black Muslim", as my Grandma calls him

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I know he's not a muslim/"half black"

[close]

[FatalT]

I tend to think a mormon has a better chance of winning than a woman or "half black Muslim", as my Grandma calls him

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I know he's not a muslim/"half black"

[close]

So we shouldn't vote for Obama?

[Tauntaun]

I tend to think a mormon has a better chance of winning than a woman or "half black Muslim", as my Grandma calls him

spoiler (click to show/hide)

I know he's not a muslim/"half black"

[close]

So we shouldn't vote for Obama?

no Paul or Gravel! MAKE IT HAPPEN!

[Flannel Boy]

Voting is for suckers. When was the last time an election was decided by a single vote? Phoenix Dark's school election wasn't even decided by one vote, AND HE WAS HOME SCHOOLED!

[Mupepe]

i've given up on politics

[Phoenix Dark]

I love you Malek. It's a shame you don't love yourself

[Flannel Boy]

I love you Malek. It's a shame you don't love yourself

This kind of talk lost you the election.

[Phoenix Dark]

[Mandark]

According to that survey, Republicans still have an edge among white youths. How much of this is the result of shifting racial demographics?

A lot.  The GOP's been playing identity politics for four decades, and now the makeup of the country is shifting and the party is lashed way too tightly to its base of resentful honkies to change course.




Brown would be more appropriate than black in this context, but the underlying swarthiness is what's really important.

[FatalT]

no Paul or Gravel! MAKE IT HAPPEN!

Which one?

[FlameOfCallandor]

Ron Paul will get my vote. Although it will be a tough descision if it is Obama vs. Paul

[Phoenix Dark]

 

[ferricide]

actually, i read a survey recently saying that 33% of americans won't vote for a mormon. that shows a surprising amount of sense. but it's probably for the wrong reasons.

[Van Cruncheon]

i'd be more worried about fred "i'm the new reagan" thompson's dark horse candidacy for the republican nomination than the crazy mormon, the crazy libertarian, or the crazy former mayor.

[CajoleJuice]

Arnold in 2012

[FlameOfCallandor]

Giuliani is the worst. hat guy cant get a sentence out of his mouth without mentioning 9/11. If he does get the nomination you might as well end the election and hand the dems the win. The 9/11 firefighters and police officers will come down so hard on him it will make the swift-boaters look like boy scouts.

[bagofeyes]

god bless america!

[FatalT]

God bless America!

Fixed.

[FlameOfCallandor]

actually, i read a survey recently saying that 33% of americans won't vote for a mormon. that shows a surprising amount of sense. but it's probably for the wrong reasons.

And those 33% are most likely republicans.

[Phoenix Dark]

Can we all agree Hillary's got the dem nod locked? The frontrunner rarely stays that way for the entire primary session, but Hillary isn't the typical candidate. Expect Edwards to make a splash early by winning or doing very well in Iowa, but after that Hillary will pull out the broom.

Romney should win the early primaries, and I think he'll get the nomination. Rudy is going absolutely nowhere, and the religious right isn't going to support Brownback because he's a joke. Honestly I'm impressed with the Thompson hype. Unless he knocks the ball out the part (Romney style) at a debate I'll continue to doubt him.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Can we all agree Hillary's got the dem nod locked?

No She doesnt.

[Phoenix Dark]

Can we all agree Hillary's got the dem nod locked?

No She doesnt.

Obama is moving far too slow. My dad's on the Michigan board to elect him, and even he admits Hillary seems to have Detroit and Ann Arbor locked down. She has the black vote, she'll win the south, and she'll win the big city primaries in states like NY and Cali. I'm still going to vote for Obama in the primaries come Feb., but as of right now I'm extremely disappointed in his campaign.

[Van Cruncheon]

given the rather bland spectrum of candidates -- i favored edwards or clark -- i'd vote for hilary just to watch her send the free republic set into a screeching furor.

[FlameOfCallandor]

If Hillary does get the nom the dems are distinguished mentally-challenged. She wont win. Too many people hate her with a passion. I probably wouldn't vote for her just because she is more of the same. The last thing this country needs is a "political family" For crying out loud the white house would look like this. Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton

[Phoenix Dark]

given the rather bland spectrum of candidates -- i favored edwards or clark -- i'd vote for hilary just to watch her send the free republic set into a screeching furor.

 

It's a shame he isn't running. Maybe someone will pick him as VP?

[Mandark]

I wouldn't rule out the GOP winning the presidency this round, or any other, since it's more of a personality contest than the legislative races.

But the trend lines are clear, and it's not good for them.  Every now and then Rove or somebody would talk about splitting the black or latino votes by using gay marriage or something, the way the Southern strategy peeled off conservative white voters, or how abortion helped bridge the gap between Catholics and WASPs.

Only the current self-image of embattled "real American" white people that they've cultivated for years means they can't get the grassroots to budge on stuff like immigration, so they're going to be stuck cannibalizing a slowly dwindling base, losing ground bit by bit.

[Phoenix Dark]

It's a shame a minority of racists on the right have been used to represent the issue of immigration for that side. The left has done a bang up job there, but at the same time the right certainly isn't helping themselves with some of these hardline comments.

Politics is often a beauty contest, and with this issue that really sucks. You won't hear anyone come out and say no, illegal immigrants don't magically deserve health care, nor will you hear anyone say illegal immigration needs to be cut by border patrols or whatever. It always evolves into "LOL SCURRED OF THE BROWNS EH RACIST?"

[Mandark]

The primary driving force behind the anti-immigration movement is cultural angst.  Period.

Some people get really, really worked up over having to press 1 for English.

[Phoenix Dark]

There is definitely angst there. But to sit around and act like illegal immigration isn't a problem just to differentiate yourself from alleged racists is stupid. It's a big issue and it pisses me off that no one is willing to do anything.

[xnikki118x]

Most of my friends are Democrats, but there are a few Republicans. We live in a VERY Democratic area, though. My parents vote Republican, but they're both registered Democrats because my dad works for the city and you can't really work for the city unless you're a registered Dem. True story.

[Mandark]

I only think it's a problem in that it gives incentives for employers to cheat, lends itself to selectively enforced laws (always a bad thing), and creates a class of laborers in sort of limbo.

I say amnesty for the lot of them, barring violent felony convictions, then jack the quotas way up, and let them have healthcare.  Let anyone have health care.  If you're sick, you should get medicine.

Tell me how much support for that position I could drum up on the right side of the aisle.

[xnikki118x]

There is definitely angst there. But to sit around and act like illegal immigration isn't a problem just to differentiate yourself from alleged racists is stupid. It's a big issue and it pisses me off that no one is willing to do anything.

I agree with PD!

I don't know if you're familiar with the city of Hazelton, PA and how it's been in the news. I'm about 20 minutes from there.

Basically, the mayor Lou Barletta tried to pass a bill making it illegal to rent to or employ illegals in the city. The bill would also make English the official language of the city. I was 100% IN FAVOR OF ALL OF THIS AND WAS SO EXCITED ABOUT IT. The Supreme Court shot it down recently. It was a sad day.

[Phoenix Dark]

Not much Mandark

I say start securing the border, make it easier to become an American legally, and allow those illegal immigrants already in the US to stay and become citizens barring violent felony convictions. Let them have healthcare once they become American citizens.

Businesses that continue to exploit should be met with severe fines or some type of penalty. And we can start with fucking Wal Mart. It's almost 1AM here, and if I drive to Wal Mart in 2 hours I'll see the illegal workers out doing their shifts (unloading stuff); if you live around a Wal Mart or Sam's Club, drive over there early in the morning.

Sadly, as long as these businesses have a vested influence on our representation in the senate/congress, we won't see much done about this. Damn shame.

[Mandark]

I say start securing the border, make it easier to become an American legally, and allow those illegal immigrants already in the US to stay and become citizens barring violent felony convictions.

Okay, in the anti-immigration movement, how much support would there be for that?  Virtually none.  "Amnesty" is a dirty word to them.  Why?



nikki: Why would you need to make English the official language?  What exactly would that entail, anyway?

[Ichirou]

There is definitely angst there. But to sit around and act like illegal immigration isn't a problem just to differentiate yourself from alleged racists is stupid. It's a big issue and it pisses me off that no one is willing to do anything.

I agree with PD!

I don't know if you're familiar with the city of Hazelton, PA and how it's been in the news. I'm about 20 minutes from there.

Basically, the mayor Lou Barletta tried to pass a bill making it illegal to rent to or employ illegals in the city. The bill would also make English the official language of the city. I was 100% IN FAVOR OF ALL OF THIS AND WAS SO EXCITED ABOUT IT. The Supreme Court shot it down recently. It was a sad day.

Scared of the browns, huh, racist?!?!?!   

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Just kidding.  You know you're my favorite whitey. 

[close]

[Van Cruncheon]

The primary driving force behind the anti-immigration movement is cultural angst.  Period.

Some people get really, really worked up over having to press 1 for English.

exactly.

legalize 'em all. if you get into the country, you are automatically required to make yourself legal: i.e. get a registered id and pay the fuck outta your taxes retroactive to the day you got here. if you don't within 30 days of arrival -- and if someone hires you before you've become legal -- you're boned (and so is the person that hired you).

[Phoenix Dark]

I say start securing the border, make it easier to become an American legally, and allow those illegal immigrants already in the US to stay and become citizens barring violent felony convictions.

Okay, in the anti-immigration movement, how much support would there be for that?  Virtually none.  "Amnesty" is a dirty word to them.  Why?

None, just like your plan sadly.  :'(

These people want illegal immigrants rounded up and kicked out, which would be just as impossible (and ugly) as the government confiscating every gun in the country. While it may not seem like a bad thing, it's that possible and simply is unrealistic.

So it's at a stalemate while the problem widens. Maybe the debate could begin with both side agreeing to secure the border. But maybe that makes far too much sense for our senators/congressmen

exactly.

legalize 'em all. if you get into the country, you are automatically required to make yourself legal: i.e. get a registered id and pay the fuck outta your taxes retroactive to the day you got here. if you don't within 30 days of arrival -- and if someone hires you before you've become legal -- you're boned (and so is the person that hired you).

  I like that

[brawndolicious]

exactly.
legalize 'em all. if you get into the country, you are automatically required to make yourself legal: i.e. get a registered id and pay the fuck outta your taxes retroactive to the day you got here. if you don't within 30 days of arrival -- and if someone hires you before you've become legal -- you're boned (and so is the person that hired you).

that probably won't do much to cut off the amount of illegals.  People hire them for cheap labor so as long as they offer to work their ass off for a week for $150 and a grande meal a day, the employers will hire them.  INS probably won't get a massively increased budget AFTER millions of illegals suddenly aren't a problem anymore and the only hope will be to make fine/jailtime for employers much higher and there be much less sympathy for illegals in hopes of people not caring so much for their taxless grande meal loving asses which gets into a territory nearly as ugly as phoenix's mother.

I don't know if there's a solution, but legalizing them and THEN hoping you didn't totally fuck yourself is a bad idea.  I like the whole 5 year thing.  They probably learned decent english by then...they still press 2 but they can actually get into possibly a different field.  This is all very scientific and trying to find the nicest way of going about it is stupid.

[Mandark]

The problem is that liberals and moderates can try to compromise on issues that freepers SAY they care about (border security, employer penalties, tax collection), but bottom line, what they really want are fewer Mexicans (and "Mexicans") coming into the country.

So you can either try to bend over for a faction that absolutely won't compromise, or you can forget about them, try to put together a policy that would actually rally support from a center-left coalition, and hope you get enough votes that way.

I'm not sure the latter would work, but the former already failed.

[Phoenix Dark]

The problem is that liberals and moderates can try to compromise on issues that freepers SAY they care about (border security, employer penalties, tax collection), but bottom line, what they really want are fewer Mexicans (and "Mexicans") coming into the country.

So you can either try to bend over for a faction that absolutely won't compromise, or you can forget about them, try to put together a policy that would actually rally support from a center-left coalition, and hope you get enough votes that way.

I'm not sure the latter would work, but the former already failed.

Not all republicans are "freepers", nor do they all want Mexicans out of the country.

I think a compromise could start with securing the borders. That should be the first thing done, and it seems like the easiest to vote on. After that...who knows. After 2008 it'll be easier to fix this issue, at least I hope so

[Mandark]

Not all Republican legislators are true-believer crazies like Tancredo, maybe.

But all elected officials rely on the support of their base.  Within the Republican base, the people who care a lot about immigration (and there are lots of these people) are overwhelmingly in it for the culture warz.

Very few Republican legislators will be willing to support anything that involves amnesty, because too many of their supporters want less Mexicans.

Saying we should "secure the borders" without addressing other issues is pointless.  As long as the quotas are so low, and the economic prospects of working in America are so much better than working in Mexico, real border security is about as achievable as shutting down the drug trade.

The issue is not separable.

[Van Cruncheon]

i just want them to pay their fucking taxes!

[Van Cruncheon]

lulz

[brawndolicious]

i thought hyperspace was a sort of space folding thingie

Wasn't that warp?

mexicans will stay as long as there's taco bell as far as I'm concerned.

[xnikki118x]

i thought hyperspace was a sort of space folding thingie

Wasn't that warp?

mexicans will stay as long as there's taco bell as far as I'm concerned.

Yet another reason why McDonald's is the best fast food establishment EVER.

[brawndolicious]

i thought hyperspace was a sort of space folding thingie

Wasn't that warp?

mexicans will stay as long as there's taco bell as far as I'm concerned.

Yet another reason why McDonald's is the best fast food establishment EVER.

I disagree.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Neat article about how each presidential candidate voted for or against the war in 2002.

http://www.nytimes.com/ref/us/politics/IRAQPOSITIONS.html

Many of the same voices who then demanded that the Clinton Administration attack Iraq are now demanding that the Bush Administration attack Iraq. It is unfortunate that these individuals are using the tragedy of September 11, 2001 as cover to force their long-standing desire to see an American invasion of Iraq. Despite all of the information to which I have access, I remain very skeptical that the nation of Iraq poses a serious and immanent terrorist threat to the United States

  Oct 8th, 2002

I think we should come home as quickly as possible. There were a lot of -- a lot of false information on the reasons we went in there, and there's no good reason to stay right now.
They say that the main reason for staying now, after given numerous reasons, we're supposed to stay now, because if we leave there will be chaos. My argument is there's plenty of chaos right there now, and a lot of Americans are being killed. And it was never in our national security interest to go over there.

Feb. 26, 2007