Wow, Stephen Kings "Gunslinger" rocks so far

[BlueTsunami]

Dude fucks a fat chick with the barrel of his gun to quell the demon in her womb, flips out on a bunch of "Baptist" like townspeople killing Men, Woman and zealot children alike and a reanimated dude who dies a second time gets nailed to some yokel cross above a bar who smell like shit.

All of this happening in a Wild West/Fantasy scenario. Bleak dystopian shit..so fucken awesome

[TVC15]

I tried to read the Dark Tower books, but I had much more fun reading about them.

I have a love/hate relationship with King, and the Dark Tower books pretty much epitomize the hate side.  They are King at his most indulgent.

You see, King is a fairly talented writer.  He's good with words, and at his best, he tells an effective, spooky, and creative story.  He falls into formula sometimes, but even then, there's usually a fun character or premise to cling onto.

The problem is that King *knows* what his strengths are, and he lets it get to his head.  He knows he has a gift for making the mundane spooky, and he knows he's one of the more talented writers when it comes to construction and wordsmithing (at least amongst the mainstream).  When King is in this indulgent mode, he produces crap.  The Dark Tower series, The Stand, It. . .the majority of his library falls into this trap.  When he is writing nice little stories like Carrie and The Shining, he does awesome things; when he actively tries to produce great, meaningful works, you get garbage.

[BlueTsunami]

I'm starting to get into his book so I definitely don't have any point of reference (regarding his work).

There are parts in Gunslinger that do follow down the path you've stated TVC. I just really like the scenario he painted with the characters, it just connected with me. Funny thing is, he sort of acknowledges those faults you listed in the expanded Forward of the book (about being young when he wrote Gunslinger and grimacing at some of the seemingly pretentious shit as he calls it).

Someone on GAF also acknowledged that the series definitely gets better with the later entries, seemingly getting better as he gets older.

[Ichirou]

I love the unabridged version of The Stand, but I haven't been able to stand anything he's written after he got hit by that van.  Either my tastes changed, or his writing turned to shit after the accident.

[TVC15]

King also lost like ALL his talent after he quit drinking and drugs, in 1987 or so.

[BlueTsunami]

The way he makes himself sound in the Foward of this book (when he was younger) is as if he was a real arrogant prick or something.

[TVC15]

He still is an arrogant prick!  Read his complaints about Kubrick's The Shining.  He is a royal idiot.

[Mupepe]

Bag of Bones is his only decent book since he got hit by the van or whatever.

I love The Stand for what it tries to be.  I know it has lots of faults, but I still like the atmosphere he had going.  It's just a nice adventure with some faults along the way.

Insomnia is pretty incredible too.  Probably one of my favorite books from him.

He creates some incredible short stories too like The Mist.

As for the dark tower series, it does get better as it goes on.  Wolves of the Calla

[BlueTsunami]

I think its the "Adventure beyond whats known" setup that hes got going with the intro to Darktower. Heading out over the desert to a land no one has visited for god knows how long. I've always had a soft spot for these type of adventures.

[TVC15]

You should check out Caligula.

[Mupepe]

I think its the "Adventure beyond whats known" setup that hes got going with the intro to Darktower. Heading out over the desert to a land no one has visited for god knows how long. I've always had a soft spot for these type of adventures.

yeah, he can set up some incredible atmosphere and give you a good sense of foreshadowing, but my problem with him is that he falls apart at the actual execution, usually with something completely laughable.  

Prime Example: Storm of the Century.  First half of that movie, incredible.  second half, 'are you fucking serious'?  The Stand suffers from some botched execution as well.

[TVC15]

That's basically the trap that It falls into as well, though there are issues with the set up too

[Mupepe]

Yeah.  It turns really laughable.  So much that it actually made me cringe with "wtf?" and that usually only happens to me in movies.

Desperation also has an incredible set up.  The execution isn't as bad as some of his others.

I mostly read King for the atmosphere.  He's full of sooo much filler though.

[BlueTsunami]

I mostly read King for the atmosphere.  He's full of sooo much filler though.

Oh man, thats whats worrying me about this series. The later entries seem to be disgustingly long

[Mupepe]

I mostly read King for the atmosphere.  He's full of sooo much filler though.

Oh man, thats whats worrying me about this series. The later entries seem to be disgustingly long

they're worth it though.  except skip 7.  leave the series untainted.

the dark tower series is some of his most creative in my opinion. 

edit: and not to mention, the backstory and filler is actually interesting and pertinent (most of it) to the story and character development.  It's not just wasted breath.

[TVC15]

The filler is him thinking he can write!  And mind you, he can; he's pretty talented at writing things that are pleasurable to read in that "this is well-written" sense.  It's just that when you KNOW you have that talent, and decide to put it to work, you end up with a lot of extraneous filler.

You see, when I'm writing, I know my talent lies with economy.  I am good at saying things briefly.  When I write something that is long, I am usually pretty confident that everything has its purpose.  I developed this by writing lots of short stories, which is where most of my own writing training was focused.  I think it's this reason why I have trouble writing anything really long.

[Mupepe]

Yes, that's also why King is so much better at short stories than he is in long novels.  and even with the long novels, he has enough "good" moments for me to continue reading. 

I'm a Stephen King whore though.  I began reading his books when I was 7 because my dad read a lot of him.  For years they were the only books I read and in 2000, I owned every book he had written (some doubles, and triples for desperation and thinner) and had read them all. 

Himuro can attest

[Mupepe]

TVC, would you mind showing me some stuff you've written?  I'll show you some stuff I wrote years ago when I thought I wanted to be a writer.  lolol

[TVC15]

TVC, would you mind showing me some stuff you've written?  I'll show you some stuff I wrote years ago when I thought I wanted to be a writer.  lolol

I'm considering putting some of my old stuff on my blog.  If/when I do, I will let you know.  Most of the old stuff I have is in the form of old print outs, from like, college, so I have to retype it.

And then I have to resist the urge to revize to make me look better.

[Mupepe]

no revisions, mister.

let me know if you do.  you guys already made me pull out a bunch of my King books

[BlueTsunami]

This Gunslinger book appearently got revisied by King. Stated that he took out some of the "Written masturbatory" stuff, or just lingering on small nuances for a dumb amount of time.

[TVC15]

This Gunslinger book appearently got revisied by King. Stated that he took out some of the "Written masturbatory" stuff, or just lingering on small nuances for a dumb amount of time.

I think his goal was to make the first book consistent with the rest of the series.  There were big time gaps between some of the books, so he probably changed his mind about something important along the way.

[Human Snorenado]

The first 3 books in the series are pretty great, the fourth has it's moments and the rest fall off a cliff.

[TVC15]

The first 3 books in the series are pretty great, the fourth has it's moments and the rest fall off a cliff.

I think the third or fourth was when there was a big gap between releases, right?

[Shuri]

I really liked The Running Man.

[Human Snorenado]

The first 3 books in the series are pretty great, the fourth has it's moments and the rest fall off a cliff.

I think the third or fourth was when there was a big gap between releases, right?

Yup, big gap between 3 and 4, then 4 and 5.  Then he crapped out the last 3 within a couple years of each other.  Bleah.

[Mupepe]

The first 3 books in the series are pretty great, the fourth has it's moments and the rest fall off a cliff.

I think the third or fourth was when there was a big gap between releases, right?

a five year gap between the first and second book and a 6 year gap between the third and fourth.  also a six year gap between fourth and fifth.

[BlueTsunami]

Seems like series that take over a decade to complete are rarely good. I can't see how you can maintain a single thought or similar narrative over the whole series doing this. Your personally at different points in your life which will obviously reflect on your work.

[Ichirou]

Bag of Bones is his only decent book since he got hit by the van or whatever.

That's from before the accident.  It's very readable even though it doesn't make much sense in hindsight.

He's also said he plans to rewrite/revise ALL the Dark Tower books now that he's finished with them (he freaked out after the accident and started writing like mad since he finally realized there was a real risk he'd die before the series was completed).