Primary Election '08: Political Thread To Discuss Real Candidates

[FlameOfCallandor]

Hey PD, what do you think of Paul's response to Mitt's speech

"We live in times of great uncertainty when men of faith must stand up for American values and traditions before they are washed away in a sea of fear and relativism. I have never been one who is particularly comfortable talking about my faith in the political arena, and I find the pandering that typically occurs in the election season to be distasteful.

Our nation was founded to be a place where religion is freely practiced and differences are tolerated and respected. I come to my faith through Jesus Christ and have accepted him as my personal savior. At the same time, I have worked tirelessly to defend and restore individual rights and religious freedom for all Americans.

The recent attacks and insinuations, both direct and subtle, that Gov. Romney may be less fit to serve as president of our United States because of his faith fly in the face of everything America stands for. Gov. Romney should be judged fairly, on his record and his character, not on the church he attends."

[Phoenix Dark]

I agree with Paul 100%. Well said

[Gay Boy]

Hey PD, what do you think of Paul's response to Mitt's speech

"We live in times of great uncertainty when men of faith must stand up for American values and traditions before they are washed away in a sea of fear and relativism. I have never been one who is particularly comfortable talking about my faith in the political arena, and I find the pandering that typically occurs in the election season to be distasteful.

Our nation was founded to be a place where religion is freely practiced and differences are tolerated and respected. I come to my faith through Jesus Christ and have accepted him as my personal savior. At the same time, I have worked tirelessly to defend and restore individual rights and religious freedom for all Americans.

The recent attacks and insinuations, both direct and subtle, that Gov. Romney may be less fit to serve as president of our United States because of his faith fly in the face of everything America stands for. Gov. Romney should be judged fairly, on his record and his character, not on the church he attends."

Get that shit out of this thread.

[Mandark]

Which is a perfectly valid song. But I'm guessing hypocrisy only applies to republicans right?

The personal hypocrisy of politicians is NEVER a solid basis for critiquing their policies.  Jeez.

[Phoenix Dark]

Which is a perfectly valid song. But I'm guessing hypocrisy only applies to republicans right?

The personal hypocrisy of politicians is NEVER a solid basis for critiquing their policies.  Jeez.

Do as I say...yeah

[Mandark]

If Larry Craig weren't a closet case, institutionalized homophobia would be more credible?  For serious.

[Phoenix Dark]

Yeah, horrible analogy there.

[Mandark]

Okay.  Explain to me what the practical significance is of Edwards' expensive haircuts.

[Phoenix Dark]

Edwards' expensive haircuts? Nothing really.

Craig/Lott/etc telling everyone how to live their life, yet doing the exact opposite? Gore demanding we change our behavior, yet doing the exact things he wants us to cut down on? That's grade A hypocrisy right there. How am I to accept that someone truly believes what they preach if they're contradicting it in my face?

[Mandark]

How am I to accept that someone truly believes what they preach if they're contradicting it in my face?

What is so important about knowing someone's "true beliefs"?

If we're talking about an office-holder or -seeker, the important thing is policy.  A self-loathing closet case who consistently votes against gay rights and a true, heterosexual homophobe who consistently votes against gay rights are both doing equal damage.

If we're talking activists, their reasoned appeals to our ethics and morals should be the important thing.

The only reason to put such a premium on a person's private life is if they make their private life the basis of an argument from authority, and if you'd be willing to accept their argument on those terms.

[etiolate]

What is so important about knowing someone's "true beliefs"?

If people knew Bush was as truly war crazy as he is then I doubt he wins that first election.

[TVC15]

One of my good friends that works for some bigass accounting firm in New York says Huckabee has done shady things financially that will probably prevent him from going too deep into the race lest scrutiny get paid to his financial background, though he did not give details.

[etiolate]

This is shaping up to be a real dirty election. Should be fun.

[Mandark]

What is so important about knowing someone's "true beliefs"?

If people knew Bush was as truly war crazy as he is then I doubt he wins that first election.

Maybe.  Didn't hurt his team in '02 or '04.  Either way, that's an issue of policy rather than sincerity, and not something you could have sussed out based on his private life.

In the case of someone like Craig, lusting after men hadn't kept him from voting reliably conservative on sex issues for over two decades.  His own homosexuality didn't make his public positions any more or less reasonable, and it didn't make the legislative results any better or worse for gay people.

[Gay Boy]

One of my good friends that works for some bigass accounting firm in New York says Huckabee has done shady things financially that will probably prevent him from going too deep into the race lest scrutiny get paid to his financial background, though he did not give details.

His biggest issue amongst republicans is he is a big government republican who loves to tax and create new programs.

He is doing well right now for one reason and one reason only. He is the only real christian in the race. Thats about it.

Rudy is as far from religious as you can get, Romney is Mormon,Thompson (lol) said back before he became a no-chance candidate that he never goes to church,  and McCain admitted he never goes to church and they will never get over him trashing all those evangelical leaders last time. That left the religious right with Huckabee.

[FlameOfCallandor]

His biggest issue amongst republicans is he is a big government republican who loves to tax and create new programs.

He is doing well right now for one reason and one reason only. He is the only real christian in the race. Thats about it.

Rudy is as far from religious as you can get, Romney is Mormon,Thompson (lol) said back before he became a no-chance candidate that he never goes to church,  and McCain admitted he never goes to church and they will never get over him trashing all those evangelical leaders last time. That left the religious right with Huckabee.

Wrong, he's just the only one willing so shill his religiousness for votes.

[Gay Boy]

Correction he is the only real EVANGELICAL christian that fits the christian's rights criteria that Bush in 2000 fit.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Correction he is the only real EVANGELICAL christian that fits the christian's rights criteria that Bush in 2000 fit.

Ok, yea I can agree with that. But I think Huckabee has alot more slime than people see at first.

[Gay Boy]

He has a lot of slime in his past. If I was FORCED to pick a Republican to be president from him rudy or romney I'd probably pick him. Mainly because he seems slighlty less neocon than those two. Rudy is dead last. Fuck, I'd rather have a third term of Bush than Rudy. Rudy is a lot more trigger happy than Bush.

[FlameOfCallandor]

He has a lot of slime in his past. If I was FORCED to pick a Republican to be president from him rudy or romney I'd probably pick him. Mainly because he seems slighlty less neocon than those two. Rudy is dead last. Fuck, I'd rather have a third term of Bush than Rudy.

You would rather have Huckabee than Paul? The guy who believes he talks to god rather than a guy who says that you shouldnt judge people based on religion?

[Fragamemnon]

One of my good friends that works for some bigass accounting firm in New York says Huckabee has done shady things financially that will probably prevent him from going too deep into the race lest scrutiny get paid to his financial background, though he did not give details.

He has a realy nasty Willie Horton-like problem as well that any GOP candidate could beat the living piss out of him with. Whether or not they'll do that remains to be seen.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Any democrat candidate could beat huckabee other than hillary.

[Bloodwake]

I hope hillary loses in Iowa. I read something recently that said Obama's gaining on her. Good deal.

[Phoenix Dark]

He has a lot of slime in his past. If I was FORCED to pick a Republican to be president from him rudy or romney I'd probably pick him. Mainly because he seems slighlty less neocon than those two. Rudy is dead last. Fuck, I'd rather have a third term of Bush than Rudy.

You would rather have Huckabee than Paul? The guy who believes he talks to god rather than a guy who says that you shouldnt judge people based on religion?

If you took that video seriously you're even dumber than I thought. Or maybe you've never been to an evangelical church before.

[Gay Boy]

Maurice do not reply to any of the posts about paul he has his own thread for that.

Back on topic, some new polling:

More Americans think the Democratic Party would do a better job than the Republican party when dealing with healthcare policy (59% to 29%), the economy (50% to 38%), protecting Americans' rights and freedoms (49% to 36%), the housing market (48% to 33%), Iraq (48% to 38%), taxes (44% to 42%), and corruption in government (42% to 29%).

More Americans think the Republican Party would do a better job than the Democratic party when dealing with terrorism (48% to 38%), illegal immigration (44% to 37%), and moral values (43% to 39%).

[Phoenix Dark]

The discrepancy between Americans thinking Dems would do a better job on corruption in government and thinking republicans would do better with moral values is kinda ironic. Heh

[Human Snorenado]

Maurice do not reply to any of the posts about paul he has his own thread for that.

Back on topic, some new polling:

More Americans think the Democratic Party would do a better job than the Republican party when dealing with healthcare policy (59% to 29%), the economy (50% to 38%), protecting Americans' rights and freedoms (49% to 36%), the housing market (48% to 33%), Iraq (48% to 38%), taxes (44% to 42%), and corruption in government (42% to 29%).

More Americans think the Republican Party would do a better job than the Democratic party when dealing with terrorism (48% to 38%), illegal immigration (44% to 37%), and moral values (43% to 39%).

lolzers at that last one, I still fail to see how it's the govt's job to do ANYTHING with "moral values", whatever those are.  Also lolzers at the stats for Iraq and "terrorism" being the same but just flip flopped.  SEEMS AMERICANS DON'T VIEW IRAQ AS PART OF THE WAR ON TERROR!

[Gay Boy]

To be fair that is the smallest gap for moral values the two parties have had in decades.

[Bloodwake]

Moral values of the Republican party: using a religion and everything it believes in to justify war, racism, bigotry, a president's election, no universal health care, no gay rights, and other things.

This country needs a wake up call when it fucking comes to moral values.

[Human Snorenado]

To be fair that is the smallest gap for moral values the two parties have had in decades.

I'd like to see poll numbers on how many people think it's the government's business to legislate "moral values" at all.

[FlameOfCallandor]

I'd like to see poll numbers on how many people think it's the government's business to legislate "moral values" at all.

Probably less than 1%

[FlameOfCallandor]

Moral values of the Republican party: using a religion and everything it believes in to justify war, racism, bigotry, a president's election, no universal health care, no gay rights, and other things.

This country needs a wake up call when it fucking comes to moral values.

  This is the funniest post ever

[FlameOfCallandor]

Morals of the democratic party: NOT stopping wars (2013 lol), pandering to minorities, raising taxes, not protecting our civil liberties, reducing our civil liberties in the guise of protection, spending more money that what we can afford.

[demi]

FoC, what would Ron Paul's stance be on people like Synbios?

[FlameOfCallandor]

FoC, what would Ron Paul's stance be on people like Synbios?

  wut?

[demi]

Just as the question asks, what would he think of people like Synbios? Would he give them those liberties, would he make them stop being cunts and get jobs, so I can stop basically paying for his shit with my hard-working tax money? You would know more than I would.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Just as the question asks, what would he think of people like Synbios? Would he give them those liberties, would he make them stop being cunts and get jobs, so I can stop basically paying for his shit with my hard-working tax money? You would know more than I would.

Im not sure what your question is.

[demi]

Nevermind then. What is Ron Paul's email address? He would know more than you.

[Mandark]

Morals of the democratic party: pandering to minorities

Oh dear.

[Phoenix Dark]

How am I to accept that someone truly believes what they preach if they're contradicting it in my face?

What is so important about knowing someone's "true beliefs"?

If we're talking about an office-holder or -seeker, the important thing is policy.  A self-loathing closet case who consistently votes against gay rights and a true, heterosexual homophobe who consistently votes against gay rights are both doing equal damage.

If we're talking activists, their reasoned appeals to our ethics and morals should be the important thing.

The only reason to put such a premium on a person's private life is if they make their private life the basis of an argument from authority, and if you'd be willing to accept their argument on those terms.

Here's my problem with your argument, which is far too technical, and slightly obtuse: if a politician is going to put heavy emphasis on an issue that he or she declares "moral", it would definitely help if they actually believe it themselves. I'm sorry, but I would like to trust my politicians on certain subjects. In Gore's case, he has deemed global warming a moral issue. He has received many awards for his great work on climate change. Yet, he certainly doesn't "live" what he preaches. Neither do the other presidential candidates, who fly in on a private jet or own a couple SUVs, or whatever.

While I certainly wouldn't dismiss Gore's arguments because of his hypocrisy, it is still a character issue to me, and I'm more likely to tune him out. Most Americans would like to have politicians who honestly believe what they're saying. Sadly our political climate is built by politicians who tell the people everything they want to hear, even when it contradicts. Think Hillary.

[FlameOfCallandor]

Morals of the democratic party: pandering to minorities

Oh dear.

As opposed to treating everyone like a human being and not part of some group.

[FlameOfCallandor]

http://www.newsweek.com/id/73850

Great interview about the topics.

[Phoenix Dark]

Morals of the democratic party: pandering to minorities every four years, IN CHURCH OMG FIRST AMENDMENT

Oh dear.

fixed?

[Joe Molotov]

FoC, what would Ron Paul's stance be on people like Synbios?

Ron Paul is a staunch supporter of the right to have arms.

[CajoleJuice]

To be fair that is the smallest gap for moral values the two parties have had in decades.

I'd like to see poll numbers on how many people think it's the government's business to legislate "moral values" at all.

Way too many.

[FlameOfCallandor]

FoC, what would Ron Paul's stance be on people like Synbios?

Ron Paul is a staunch supporter of the right to have arms.

OH GOD!!!! LOL

This was the best response ever.

[Gay Boy]

I am locking this topic and doing a new one, ron paul is not allowed in here.