I finally started playing FFXII...and

[Powerslave]

I'm actually enjoying it! 

I have had a beef with the FF series ever since FFX and gave my hope up on the games ever since. I started this game yesterday and already have over 10 hours clocked into it. I spend the vast majority of the time grinding...I love grinding! I'm at the Palace sewers right now and got the gambits system.

I already made a 102 Chain fighting wolves. It's funny how battling went from my least favorite to most favorite aspect of RPG's. Guess that tells how much everything else lacks...

I also noticed how 'ugly' this game was. Never knew that this was gonna be a blocky game. Everything is squarish. Graphics are like a PS1 game, really. This is like FFT/Vagrant Story. Not just the grahipcs, but also the world.
And about the FMV's.... I don't know, I like them and they have a certain charm to them, but I think the direction and style looks a bit like those FMV's from old PC games or those (cheap) CGI sequences you see on the Discovery Channel or something.

The voice acting is great. The script is superb. I was surprised to see how non-cliche it was. For example, when the first Judge made it's appearance, the cool entrance was immediately interupted with Balthier saying that it's a Judge and talked negative about him. All very mature stuff. Impressive.

Though I realized while I'm excited about the game now, it was somehow the same with FFX. I loved to level up and stuff and didn't get much bored with the rest of the game. The sphere system was fun as well. It was just clear from the beginning that I wouldn't appreciate the game as much as the previous 3 FF's. And I started to go on a hate rampage some time after I stopped playing FFX because I was so much pissed at how they abandoned the roots of the series and threw out lots of features I used to love so much, ie. the world map.
So while I may seem positive about FFXII, it may change because it's yet another non-FF game.

[abrader]

i have only barely played it to get a sense of the flavour - and I do think its quite nice.

Not sure when I will be able to play it for real.

[MCD]

Played 1 hour and didn't like it.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

not to mention everyone saying it will turn to shit halfway through.

[close]

[Himu]

Ugh FFXII

biggest waste of potential ever  :'(

[MCD]

Himuro knows what's up!

[y2kev]

You like AssCrud! THAT's the biggest waste of potential ever! And I think AssCrud is fuck awesome!

FFXII never "falls apart," but it does have a lot of its story up front and then very little towards the back end. People talk about it degrading into typical JRPG fare, but, I mean, how is that "degrades to total shit" unless you think everything else is total shit?

Anyway, the game has a lot of flaws rectified by the Japanese rerelease. I really wish I could try Zodiac Job System, I think that would totally fix up the jankarific license board.

[MCD]

You like AssCrud! THAT's the biggest waste of potential ever! And I think AssCrud is fuck awesome!

4.5  :'(

[Himu]

the license board is one of my biggest complaints

i like to make my characters individualized, but in ff12, in order to do that, i still have to make them learn every single ability ever. It's not like DDS or DDS2 where I can pick any ability set and it'll keep unlocking abilities that are similar. Like: fire ability once mastered unlocks fire ability number 2, which unlocks number 3;etc. No, they're thrown all over the place. Swords license will unlock some random ass license like...wands before I can get to swords again. It's distinguished mentally-challenged.

FFXII never "falls apart," but it does have a lot of its story up front and then very little towards the back end. People talk about it degrading into typical JRPG fare, but, I mean, how is that "degrades to total shit" unless you think everything else is total shit?

FFXII's story blows cock right from the beginning. Go here, go there. Main character who doesn't make a difference at all;etc

The game would have been 10 x better if you played the game through the eyes of Basch, or Ashe. The game tries to be a political story but you never get to see the stuff in action because you play as a shitty street rat. If Ashe were the main character, i bet the game would have been awesome.

This is why FFXII is the biggest waste of potential ever. Every thing about it was full of potential: the story, the characters, the world, the battle system, everything. And it all comes up short. Why should anyone wait five years for something like that?

[Powerslave]

uhh no spoilers of any kind please

[y2kev]

the license board is one of my biggest complaints

FFXII never "falls apart," but it does have a lot of its story up front and then very little towards the back end. People talk about it degrading into typical JRPG fare, but, I mean, how is that "degrades to total shit" unless you think everything else is total shit?

FFXII's story blows cock right from the beginning. Go here, go there.

WOW THIS IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT FROM EVERY OTHER GAME IN WHICH YOU GO FROM PLACE TO PLACE TO DO STORY EVENTS

Main character who doesn't make a difference at all;etc

There is no main character. Stop spouting this Diablos-esque bullshit.

[Powerslave]

Sounds good... I'm gonna buy FFXII sooner or later.

It better be good... it will be my first final fantasy game...

Definitely not a good starterspoint for this franchise. Start with FF7. Not just because it gets gradually worse in quality, also because of the technical inferiority. You might not tolerate some slow/ugly/inefficient graphics or gameplay features if you start with the newest one and head back to play the older ones.. Start with 7, then proceed in the chronological order.

[Powerslave]

What makes you think this game is any better than that one? This game has less minigames, less humour, no funny stuff or good music, it's basically a dungeon crawler with a mature story.
You are lame.

[MCD]

FF7 pc version = midi music lol

and it's not playable without fan patches.

[abrader]

Hell no, I played a demo of the PC version of VII. It's lame.

Just when I thought there was hope for you

Oh - PC version buwahahaha

[Van Cruncheon]

less mini-games = more awesome

mini-games should be abolished

[abrader]

Yeah I never play them more than once unless you need them for a major plot item....

Like who the hell really played tetra master enough that PlayOnline needed a version of it?

[y2kev]

There's some really well done lines in the game. The judges have a lot of badddddassss lines.

My favorite is Bergan's

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Too late into their sorrow do those who misplace their trust in gods learn their fate.

[close]

SMACK

[Powerslave]

FF7 pc version = midi music lol

Oh shit, totally forgot that, lol
The PSX version is almost midi, I wonder why they decided to completely midi-fy it for the PC version anyway..

less mini-games = more awesome

mini-games should be abolished

I don't mean just major minigames that can be played throughout the entire game, but also temporary minigames. And I didn't put minigames as a first must, so no need to focus on just that part.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

you should be abolished 

[close]

[abrader]

hey drinky speaking of minigames - how is the chocobo casino?

EDIT: oh shit - i meant Rag Rappy Casino

[y2kev]

FF7 pc version = midi music lol

Oh shit, totally forgot that, lol
The PSX version is almost midi, I wonder why they decided to completely midi-fy it for the PC version anyway..

less mini-games = more awesome

mini-games should be abolished

I don't mean just major minigames that can be played throughout the entire game, but also temporary minigames. And I didn't put minigames as a first must, so no need to focus on just that part.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

you should be abolished 

[close]

The PSX sound chip or whatever could interpret the special instructions that PCs couldn't, so they standardized it by just going MIDI or something like that.

[abrader]

I thought the PSX version just streamed audio off of the CD and the PC version was MIDI that sounded better or worse depending on your sound card.

[Van Cruncheon]

i hate "temporary" mini-games more than "major" mini-games

use the game's mechanics and create more content; don't give me unpolished half-assed alternate mechanics

[MCD]

BD had good mini games, sweet, short and not half assed.

[Van Cruncheon]

still annoying

[MCD]

well, i was annoyed of not getting the achievements!

[MCD]

also, FUCK CARD MINI GAMES!

[abrader]

Yeah mini card games are awful - but play Eye of Judgement.

[MCD]

i don't play card games in general.

[Himu]

BD had good mini games, sweet, short and not half assed.

yes they are half assed.

[MCD]

nicca plz.

[Himu]

The wagon achievement is proof of this.

[MCD]

You don't need to remind me of that!

FUCK YOU SAKAGUCHI!

[y2kev]

No worries, Sakaguchi will be out of a job soon.

[MCD]

 

[BlueTsunami]

Didn't know there was already a thread. TIME TO SELF DESTRUCT MINE

[bluemax]

i hate "temporary" mini-games more than "major" mini-games

use the game's mechanics and create more content; don't give me unpolished half-assed alternate mechanics

So true. I hate mini games and Square Enix's forcing of them down my throat.

The only one I ever enjoyed was blitzball and that's because I'm wacky for sports sim managers and not because it was amazing or anything. I'd pay money for a full version of blitzball though :/

But yeah FFXII was pretty meh. I started out loving it until the story became your typical "race for the ultimate power" bs. I still got to the end, but damn if I didn't rush my way through the last third of the game. I guess it does become slightly more interesting when you make everything more challenging than it should be. Not too mention my limited Japanese made it so I had kind of a shit assortment of licenses. When I helped my brother replay the game a bit it was so stupidly easy.

All that being said, in retrospect its not much worse than the majority of FF games. A linear story driven RPG with relatively mundane mechanics designed to be accessible to millions rather than appease the hardcore. Also Balthier is pretty bad ass as far as FF characters go.

[MCD]

I wouldn't worry about Mistwalker/Sakaguchi.

I think of LO/BD as MS main rpgs for years to come, you know, long term investment.

it might look bad now (in term of sales) but if they continue developing B+/A+ rpgs then things will change, after 10 years maybe lol.

[Powerslave]

God damn the moogles in this game are sooooo cuuuuute 


I want to eat them 

[y2kev]

Sakaguchi's definitely not out of a job. I was just joking. But I highly doubt he'll ever get 20 mln to make another RPG. Ever.

He'll just have to stick to the type of stuff we've seen AQI/MW turn out on DS...which is like almost embarrassingly low rent sometimes (and brownie brown on BD+ lol).

[MrAngryFace]

FF12 had a generic story and horrible gameplay, but it had the best style and decent characters and good music. ARGH

[Powerslave]

I think to know if I'm going to like Final Fantasy I'd like to see a good trailer of the cutscenes, gameplay and stuff like that. Got a youtube link?

Just freaking start with FF8 or FF9 if you think FF7 is that awful, based on a shitty PC port with midi music.

edit: have these 2 vids of FF7. If these won't be enough to convince you of the awesomeness of FF7 then you're hopeless.

FF12 had a generic story and horrible gameplay, but it had the best style and decent characters and good music. ARGH

Dude, the music is very mediocre in this game. It's not terrible but all songs have this "Imperial" swing to them. There's not much variety.

[MrAngryFace]

yeah I was hoping for some GWAR too

[Himu]

some songs are good, but it's still better than FFX's ost. FFX's best tracks were done by Hamauzu and not Uematsu. Listening to LO's various songs though, it seems that Uematsu's got his groove back.

[y2kev]

Uematsu sux at arranging, and is best when he's creating simple melodies. The BD OST rox.

[Powerslave]

I'm not saying the soundtrack is bad, it's very cheery and gives me that "Final Fantasy" feeling again. Btw, impressions for this game will be following some time later on. And they are positive!

[Himu]

Uematsu sux at arranging, and is best when he's creating simple melodies. The BD OST rox.

agreed. bd ost owns

[BlueTsunami]

Starting playing early in the morning for like an hour and I'm playing right now. I don't understand the hate for the Battle System, its essentially a hands on/hands off ATB system. Your recommended against micro managing (which is what the Gambits are for) but your still in total control of your allies. Instead of mashing X for all of your allies, your letting the game do it for you and selecting skills that can help in battle. I can see why this sucks though, letting the game play for you and all but its an interesting direction, instead of going for vanilla ATB style system. I also really like it due to random battles being completely gone (THANK GOD)

The License board encompassing equipment seems kinda dumb but I'm willing to give it a chance. I guess it should give weapon types and branches you take more significance down the line, instead of making everyone general weapon users.

The visuals are definitely a bit ugly but I like the style. Its as if I'm playing a fully realized 3D Final Fantasy Tactics/Ogre Tactics. The Characters (as MAF stated) are interesting to me too. Vaan's voice acting sucks but everyone elses are above average/top notch. I'm diggin' it so far, I'm just happy I haven't read any significant spoilers about the game after all this time.

[y2kev]

There are three camps in the battle system debate:

1. IT'S AMAZING RUINS EVERY OTHER RPG
2. IT'S SHIT YOU DON'T DO SHIT
3. It's flawed, but has some really great ideas and removes a lot of the tedium of typical RPG battling.

There's something rewarding about seeing your strategy play out in front of you, even if you don't directly press X every five seconds to execute it. People talk about random battles being tedious and stupid in 95% of RPGs, so why not just streamline the shit and allow you to plan in advance for them? The best feeling is setting up an autogrind loop-- and it is possible in one specific region-- that will allow the game basically to grind without you even playing. And people point to this as garbage, but to me this is really the pinnacle in RPG strategy. I've designed a system so complex and so well thought out that I don't even have to babysit the game.

Yeah, it's up to you.

I also never turned the gambit off on the main character except for some of the later dungeons when status effects just became unfun to manage.

The license board has issues. Every character shouldn't have the same board. Luckily it's fixed in the international release. That we don't have.

I don't think the game is ugly at all...it's by far the best looking PS2 RPG I think, other than VP2...which obviously has a handicap.

[BlueTsunami]

Yeah, everyone getting the same license board (just starting off at different spots) is not too good. It actually seems like a step back from the Sphere Grid in a sense due to the Sphere Grid being setup so every character is locked out of everyone elses area (though the linear setup of the Sphere Grid was bad).

[Himu]

Starting playing early in the morning for like an hour and I'm playing right now. I don't understand the hate for the Battle System, its essentially a hands on/hands off ATB system. Your recommended against micro managing (which is what the Gambits are for) but your still in total control of your allies. Instead of mashing X for all of your allies, your letting the game do it for you and selecting skills that can help in battle.

A part of rpg battle strategy for me is knowing when to heal and when to attack. It's all about balance, and tension. Having the AI handle this for you makes battles BORING.

I like it for grinding though, because it makes battles faster.

I enjoyed the game far more when I turned gambits off and played on wait mode.

[y2kev]

Starting playing early in the morning for like an hour and I'm playing right now. I don't understand the hate for the Battle System, its essentially a hands on/hands off ATB system. Your recommended against micro managing (which is what the Gambits are for) but your still in total control of your allies. Instead of mashing X for all of your allies, your letting the game do it for you and selecting skills that can help in battle.

A part of rpg battle strategy for me is knowing when to heal and when to attack. It's all about balance, and tension. Having the AI handle this for you makes battles BORING.

I like it for grinding though, because it makes battles faster.

I enjoyed the game far more when I turned gambits off and played on wait mode.

I don't think there's really any disconnect there. What's the difference between having your brain trigger, "Oh, less than 20% HP, cast heal," or having the game do it automatically by a command you already established? Is it really that fun to navigate menus?

I dunno, I mean, you're considerably more patient than I am if you could play that game through in Wait Mode. Wait Mode is an obvious concession to old time players-- I don't think it works with non-boss gameplay at all.

[Himu]

I wanted to play it on active mode. I play every FF on active mode, but FFXII, it's hard going through the menus if you don't use gambits. It's extremely hard to play the game on active without gambits...and that's the way I wanted to play the game. Sigh.

I don't think there's really any disconnect there. What's the difference between having your brain trigger, "Oh, less than 20% HP, cast heal," or having the game do it automatically by a command you already established?

It's the tension that I enjoy. With gambits, it does it automatically for me. If I have direct control, I have to heal my guys on my own or tough it out and go all RAMBO and fuck people up with low hp.

[BlueTsunami]

I think its more of a micro RTS than anything, in that, you point to where you want the characters to go and they go and do their thang. If they get into trouble, you act as God and intervene with a course of action you feel the AI isn't going with.

I definitely get the satisfaction from battle prep and seeing my characters handle the enemies. Tradition ATB systems bore me to death now. Its never a good thing when your traveling to Point A to Point B and random battles consist of you looking away while your mashing X. Random battles in most Final Fantasies never really needed strategy anyways. Its the Boss battles where you need to break out of your comatose and start paying attention.

[Himu]

i guess it depends on how much you like menu based combat to begin with

me, I love it

[Himu]

Tradition ATB systems bore me to death now.

ATB wasn't even great until FFX-2

[BlueTsunami]

Tradition ATB systems bore me to death now.

ATB wasn't even great until FFX-2

Totally forgot about FFX-2, very quick and the combo system they implimented was cool too. But even then it feels too static for me and Random Battles are ZZZzzzZZZzzz

A complaint about FFXII. Loading is starting to wear on me. Its not horrific but its noticeable and having HDLoader (and not being able to use it with FFXII) is pissing me off.

[y2kev]

I don't remember loading being that bad. Do you have an old PS2?

Or playing on ps3?

[BlueTsunami]

I don't remember loading being that bad. Do you have an old PS2?

Or playing on ps3?

Playing on the PS2. I think its more me being used to PS2 games with minimal loading times due to HDLoader and going back to regular disk based loading. DQVII with 1 Second load times = holy fuck

[Vizzys]

(and brownie brown on BD+ lol).

brownie brown helped develop mother 3, which turned out great, have faith!

I think they are good devs when not working alone

[y2kev]

(and brownie brown on BD+ lol).

brownie brown helped develop mother 3, which turned out great, have faith!

I think they are good devs when not working alone

They're basically working alone now. Ask duckroll.