Author Topic: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra (Read 7678 times)

demi · « **on:** March 20, 2008, 07:35:34 PM »

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3581/a_japanese_rpg_primer_the_.php?print=1

(this link shows them all on one page, rather than click click click)

1. valkyrie profile
2. final fantasy iv,vi & vii
3. xenogears
4. chrono trigger
5. shadow hearts covenant
6. persona 3
7. shin megami tensei nocturne
8. final fantasy viii
9. earthbound
10. grandia
11. final fantasy xii
12. dragon quest v
13. panzer dragoon saga
14. final fantasy x
15. skies of arcadia
16. chrono cross
17. phantasy star iv the end of the millenium
18. breath of fire:dragon quarter
19. suikoden ii
20. final fantasy v

hyp · « **Reply #1 on:** March 20, 2008, 07:36:25 PM »

persona 3 > nocturne?

gamasutra

demi · « **Reply #2 on:** March 20, 2008, 07:37:46 PM »

This is a list of twenty of the best JRPGs of all time -- well, an attempt, anyway. Each of these has been selected for excelling in some significant way, whether it's through compelling narrative devices or intriguing gameplay mechanics.

To avoid redundancies, only the best installment of a franchise will be chosen as a representative. The exception to this rule includes the Final Fantasy games, many of which are so vastly different from each other that they can barely be recognized as part of the same series, outside of the name.

It's worth bearing in mind that there are technically a few different subgenres of the Japanese RPG. These include action-RPGs like Ys, Kingdom Hearts, Secret of Mana, and (arguably) The Legend of Zelda.

There are also strategy RPGs, like Fire Emblem, Final Fantasy Tactics, Disgaea, Shining Force, and the like. There are also a handful of Japanese-developed online RPGs, like Phantasy Star Online and Final Fantasy XI. For the sake of focus, these types of games will be excluded from the list.

lawl

hyp · « **Reply #3 on:** March 20, 2008, 07:39:00 PM »

Quote from: demi on March 20, 2008, 07:37:46 PM

To avoid redundancies, only the best installment of a franchise will be chosen as a representative. The exception to this rule includes the Final Fantasy games, many of which are so vastly different from each other that they can barely be recognized as part of the same series, outside of the name.

gamasutra

SMT NOCTURNE
SMT PERSONA 3

Vizzys · « **Reply #4 on:** March 20, 2008, 07:45:03 PM »

good games mostly

Himu · « **Reply #5 on:** March 20, 2008, 07:45:34 PM »

It's not in order, if you read the article. The article doesn't even have a ranking.

Vizzys · « **Reply #6 on:** March 20, 2008, 07:46:34 PM »

TOO QUICK

hyp · « **Reply #7 on:** March 20, 2008, 07:48:05 PM »

Quote from: Himuro on March 20, 2008, 07:45:34 PM

It's not in order, if you read the article. The article doesn't even have a ranking.

they're still pretty stupid for not knowing that persona 3 is an SMT game.

recursivelyenumerable · « **Reply #8 on:** March 20, 2008, 07:49:40 PM »

No 8-bit games? JRPGs started in 1991 huh?

demi · « **Reply #9 on:** March 20, 2008, 07:49:57 PM »

I like how he says Final Fantasy is so radically different but lists the three SNES games

recursivelyenumerable · « **Reply #10 on:** March 20, 2008, 07:56:56 PM »

saga ii/final fantasy legend ii

rpgs made after 1994

Himu · « **Reply #11 on:** March 20, 2008, 07:57:46 PM »

Quote from: ParticleReality on March 20, 2008, 07:47:45 PM

Quote
6. persona 3

Get the fuck out of here.

Quote
2. final fantasy iv,vi & vii
8. final fantasy viii
11. final fantasy xii
14. final fantasy x
20. final fantasy v

I don't know what pisses me off more. The fact that Dragon Quest made the list ONCE or the lack of Kingdom Hearts*

*Hey fuck you, if FF can have 7 games on the list they can throw out a KH shout-out.

Edit: WHERE THE FUCK IS DDS?

wait, you've played the dragon quests?

Vizzys · « **Reply #12 on:** March 20, 2008, 07:58:00 PM »

Quote from: recursivelyenumerable on March 20, 2008, 07:56:56 PM

saga ii/final fantasy legend ii
rpgs made after 1994

earthbound is on the list so the rest is really just filler

Himu · « **Reply #13 on:** March 20, 2008, 07:58:07 PM »

Quote from: recursivelyenumerable on March 20, 2008, 07:56:56 PM

saga ii/final fantasy legend ii
rpgs made after 1994

DQV came out before 1994.

Himu · « **Reply #14 on:** March 20, 2008, 08:12:20 PM »

word, my brother. dq7 deserves to be on the list. but honestly, it's not a crap list in the least. while i'd replace ff12 with something else, and I think Phantasy Star II should be on it, it's got pretty much all the essential jrpgs on there.

tiesto · « **Reply #15 on:** March 20, 2008, 08:17:41 PM »

I'd say get rid of FFVIII, X, and XII and put on Lufia 2, Star Ocean 2, and the almighty Phantasy Star 2.

MCD · « **Reply #16 on:** March 20, 2008, 08:18:38 PM »

excluding srpgs doesn't sound fare to me.

Joe Molotov · « **Reply #17 on:** March 20, 2008, 08:21:14 PM »

Of that list, here's the list of the games that are still actually playable:

5. shadow hearts covenant
6. persona 3
7. shin megami tensei nocturne
18. breath of fire:dragon quarter
19. suikoden ii

Everything else, AVOID if you want to keep your nostalgia and sanity intact.

MCD · « **Reply #18 on:** March 20, 2008, 08:33:17 PM »

there are lots more than that Joe.

chrono trigger for one.

Himu · « **Reply #19 on:** March 20, 2008, 08:55:35 PM »

Quote from: Joe Molotov on March 20, 2008, 08:21:14 PM

Of that list, here's the list of the games that are still actually playable:

5. shadow hearts covenant
6. persona 3
7. shin megami tensei nocturne
18. breath of fire:dragon quarter
19. suikoden ii

Everything else, AVOID if you want to keep your nostalgia and sanity intact.

er

you must be kidding me joe

I played DQ5 for the first time last year and it has aged very well and all the ff's on the list have ages very very well.

recursivelyenumerable · « **Reply #20 on:** March 20, 2008, 09:07:30 PM »

I don't really believe in "aging". If it's not still good now, it was never good to begin with.

MCD · « **Reply #21 on:** March 20, 2008, 09:09:26 PM »

Quote from: recursivelyenumerable on March 20, 2008, 09:07:30 PM

I don't really believe in "aging". If it's not still good now, it was never good to begin with.

i dunno, ff7 looked pretty good back then and now? it's a joke.

Ichirou · « **Reply #22 on:** March 20, 2008, 09:14:30 PM »

What a horrible list.

recursivelyenumerable · « **Reply #23 on:** March 20, 2008, 09:17:26 PM »

10 years is an awfully short time for radical changes in aesthetics. If it looks bad now it looked bad then. (NB: "looks bad" !=== "is technically impressive").

By the way, I don't mind FF7's visuals (the CG execution is rough --- which was just as true when it came out --- but the world design is really cool); I have some other serious problems with the game, which were also every bit as evident when it was released.

Himu · « **Reply #24 on:** March 20, 2008, 09:25:51 PM »

Quote from: Ichi on March 20, 2008, 09:14:30 PM

What a horrible list.

it's only a horrible list if you have shit taste.

Himu · « **Reply #25 on:** March 20, 2008, 09:26:58 PM »

Quote from: recursivelyenumerable on March 20, 2008, 09:17:26 PM

10 years is an awfully short time for radical changes in aesthetics. If it looks bad now it looked bad then. (NB: "looks bad" !=== "is technically impressive").

By the way, I don't mind FF7's visuals (the CG execution is rough --- which was just as true when it came out --- but the world design is really cool); I have some other serious problems with the game, which were also every bit as evident when it was released.

i recently played ff7 again and while i have problems myself, i think it does a lot of good things that we don't even see in modern jrpgs

Ichirou · « **Reply #26 on:** March 20, 2008, 09:28:09 PM »

Quote from: demi on March 20, 2008, 07:35:34 PM

1. valkyrie profile
4. chrono trigger
8. final fantasy viii
10. grandia
12. dragon quest v
13. panzer dragoon saga
17. phantasy star iv the end of the millenium
18. breath of fire:dragon quarter
19. suikoden ii
20. final fantasy v

These are the only games that belong on the list, and I'm a little bit iffy on FFVIII and Phantasy Star IV.

Himu · « **Reply #27 on:** March 20, 2008, 09:30:19 PM »

and why no smtn or p3

Himu · « **Reply #28 on:** March 20, 2008, 09:32:56 PM »

i can understand why you wouldn't like p3

but not liking smtn is a sin against the jrpg gods and gives you the credibility of a tales of fan

Ichirou · « **Reply #29 on:** March 20, 2008, 09:33:32 PM »

Quote from: Himuro on March 20, 2008, 09:30:19 PM

and why no smtn or p3

Because I haven't played P3 yet and I don't even own Nocturne (it's pretty hard to find).

Himu · « **Reply #30 on:** March 20, 2008, 09:34:25 PM »

and why no ff4 or 6

Ichirou · « **Reply #31 on:** March 20, 2008, 09:35:46 PM »

Because they have aged horribly.

bork · « **Reply #32 on:** March 20, 2008, 09:36:47 PM »

I like how three fucking final fantasy games are in the number two spot. It's not the top 20, it's the top 22.

HERE IS MY LIST OF ESSENTIAL JRPGS:

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11. the one with that spiky-haired 15 year-old anime character that saves the world
12.
13.
14.
15.
16.
17.
18.
19.
20.

Himu · « **Reply #33 on:** March 20, 2008, 09:37:25 PM »

how exactly have they aged horribly while sakura taisen 1 and 2 haven't. that makes no sense ichi-san.

Ichirou · « **Reply #34 on:** March 20, 2008, 09:38:50 PM »

You played ST1 and 2, you know those games are still just as fun today as when they were released.

Whereas I can't play FFIV and VI without becoming bored by the primitive battle system, high encounter rates, boring dungeons, etc.

Himu · « **Reply #35 on:** March 20, 2008, 09:42:06 PM »

I played FFIV and VI after I got into rpgs. In fact, FFVI was the fourth jrpg I played and I still loved it, after all of the graphical splendor that FFVII and VIII had over it. I thought it had tons of variety and lots going for it gameplay wise. While the esper system kinda sucked since because required grinding and grinding is for lamers, I still look back on it nostalgically today. Same for FFIV, even though I played the game in 2001 (or was it 2000?) when it was put into FF: Chronicles.

As someone who experienced those games first hand after the whole 3d rpg revolution, I just don't comprehend how Dragon Quest V, Final Fantasy V, Lufia 2, and Chrono Trigger have aged well while FFVI and IV haven't.

Wait. You just said FFVI's dungeons are boring? I recently replayed a year back on gba, and was still amazed by the awesome dungeons. I liked how you could split your party up and crap, and the final dungeon is classic. Other jrpgs don't match up to FFVI's dungeons aside from DQ, SMTN, and DDS1+2.

Ichirou · « **Reply #36 on:** March 20, 2008, 09:45:15 PM »

Lufia 2's dungeons are fun to navigate because they're filled with puzzles and the monsters are all visible on screen so you can avoid them easily. Final Fantasy V has the ingenious job system, so while the dungeons and the story may be the same cliched crap, the jobs keep you playing. Chrono Trigger has a unique setting and handles it pretty well; the battle system is also solid and the game is short enough that it never wears out its welcome.

Meanwhile, FFIV and VI are completely generic RPGs. Absolutely nothing special about them.

How many of FFVI's dungeons were just caves? Too many.

Himu · « **Reply #37 on:** March 20, 2008, 09:49:35 PM »

FFIV has characters that all have unique abilities and I like that. It was a fun ass adventure too.

FFVI had characters that all specialized in specific things and all had different skills. I liked that shit. Plus, the adventure owned and FFVI is the only FF story bar VIII worth mentioning.

I guess I just have a hard on for rpgs where the characters have specific rolls or unique moves to one another.

I don't see how you could consider them generic, though. especially when you consider when they were released. You have to be a real jaded person to say that.

i think that VP2 deserves to be on this list. It kicks the original's ass.

Quote

How many of FFVI's dungeons were just caves? Too many.

A lot of them are caves, but you've got to be kidding me: fanatics tower, doomtrain, floating continent, the empire, off the top of my head

recursivelyenumerable · « **Reply #38 on:** March 20, 2008, 09:58:29 PM »

plus the caves had nice music!

Himu · « **Reply #39 on:** March 20, 2008, 09:59:18 PM »

the caves of narshe's theme make my dick hard

Ichirou · « **Reply #40 on:** March 20, 2008, 10:00:01 PM »

I thought it was an RPG, not a spelunking game. I hated all the generic caves. I dunno, man - I loved FFVI when it came out, but it has aged really badly. Yet I can still play and enjoy FFV.

bork · « **Reply #41 on:** March 20, 2008, 10:04:01 PM »

Samurai Spirits Bushidoretsuden did kick ass.

Joe Molotov · « **Reply #42 on:** March 20, 2008, 10:16:51 PM »

Quote from: Himuro on March 20, 2008, 08:55:35 PM

Quote from: Joe Molotov on March 20, 2008, 08:21:14 PM
Of that list, here's the list of the games that are still actually playable:

5. shadow hearts covenant
6. persona 3
7. shin megami tensei nocturne
18. breath of fire:dragon quarter
19. suikoden ii

Everything else, AVOID if you want to keep your nostalgia and sanity intact.

er

you must be kidding me joe

I played DQ5 for the first time last year and it has aged very well and all the ff's on the list have ages very very well.

Once you've played Lost Odyssey, there's no going back.

Ichirou · « **Reply #43 on:** March 20, 2008, 10:18:16 PM »

Final Fantasy VII was horrid.

Himu · « **Reply #44 on:** March 20, 2008, 10:21:01 PM »

Quote from: Joe Molotov on March 20, 2008, 10:16:51 PM

Quote from: Himuro on March 20, 2008, 08:55:35 PM
Quote from: Joe Molotov on March 20, 2008, 08:21:14 PM
Of that list, here's the list of the games that are still actually playable:

5. shadow hearts covenant
6. persona 3
7. shin megami tensei nocturne
18. breath of fire:dragon quarter
19. suikoden ii

Everything else, AVOID if you want to keep your nostalgia and sanity intact.

er

you must be kidding me joe

I played DQ5 for the first time last year and it has aged very well and all the ff's on the list have ages very very well.

Once you've played Lost Odyssey, there's no going back.

I like LO a lot but

........

MoxManiac · « **Reply #45 on:** March 20, 2008, 10:22:15 PM »

Quote from: Ichi on March 20, 2008, 10:18:16 PM

Final Fantasy VII was horrid.

So was xenogears!

Ichirou · « **Reply #46 on:** March 20, 2008, 10:23:27 PM »

Quote from: MoxManiac on March 20, 2008, 10:22:15 PM

Quote from: Ichi on March 20, 2008, 10:18:16 PM
Final Fantasy VII was horrid.

So was xenogears!

I enjoyed Xenogears for what it was, and I admit it was not a great game (probably not even a good one), but FFVII was just so much worse.

Himu · « **Reply #47 on:** March 20, 2008, 10:23:54 PM »

Quote from: Ichi on March 20, 2008, 10:23:27 PM

Quote from: MoxManiac on March 20, 2008, 10:22:15 PM
Quote from: Ichi on March 20, 2008, 10:18:16 PM
Final Fantasy VII was horrid.

So was xenogears!

I enjoyed Xenogears for what it was, and I admit it was not a great game (probably not even a good one), but FFVII was just so much worse.

You are officially on batshit pills.

Ichirou · « **Reply #48 on:** March 20, 2008, 10:37:31 PM »

Give me your list of 20 essential JRPGs, then!

Joe Molotov · « **Reply #49 on:** March 20, 2008, 10:37:47 PM »

Quote from: Himuro on March 20, 2008, 10:21:01 PM

Quote from: Joe Molotov on March 20, 2008, 10:16:51 PM
Quote from: Himuro on March 20, 2008, 08:55:35 PM
Quote from: Joe Molotov on March 20, 2008, 08:21:14 PM
Of that list, here's the list of the games that are still actually playable:

5. shadow hearts covenant
6. persona 3
7. shin megami tensei nocturne
18. breath of fire:dragon quarter
19. suikoden ii

Everything else, AVOID if you want to keep your nostalgia and sanity intact.

er

you must be kidding me joe

I played DQ5 for the first time last year and it has aged very well and all the ff's on the list have ages very very well.

Once you've played Lost Odyssey, there's no going back.

I like LO a lot but

........

I was just kidding about LO. It just seems to me that a lot of older (SNES/PSX) era RPGs are really by-the-numbers, clichéd fantasy. Granted, a lot of newer ones are too, but at least they have nicer graphics and generally a more user friendly interface.

recursivelyenumerable · « **Reply #50 on:** March 20, 2008, 11:58:29 PM »

Quote

spelunking game

The Sceneman · « **Reply #51 on:** March 21, 2008, 01:58:17 AM »

no Baten Kaitos: fail

Ichirou · « **Reply #52 on:** March 21, 2008, 02:20:23 AM »

I like Grandia better than Grandia 2. Bigger areas, more emphasis on exploration, less angst.

Himu · « **Reply #53 on:** March 21, 2008, 09:56:00 AM »

Quote from: Ichi on March 20, 2008, 10:37:31 PM

Give me your list of 20 essential JRPGs, then!

in no order and only including strictly jrpgs and jarpgs. No srpgs or anything.

1. valkyrie profile 1
2. valkyrie profile 2
3. final fantasy series (IV-X)
4. chrono trigger
5. lufia 2
6. Dragon Quest series (I, II, V, VII, VIII, because those are the ones i've played in depth)
7. Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne
8. Persona 3
9. Grandia
10. Phantasy Star II
11. Phantasy Star IV
12. Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter
13. suikoden series (1, 2, 3, 5)
14. vagrant story
15. panzer dragoon saga
16. skies of arcadia
17. shadowrun
18. star ocean 2
19. brave fencer musashi
20. digital devil saga

MCD · « **Reply #54 on:** March 21, 2008, 09:59:05 AM »

only breath of fire 5? no love for the old ones?

and shadowrun? isn't that western?

Himu · « **Reply #55 on:** March 21, 2008, 10:00:39 AM »

Quote from: McDragon on March 21, 2008, 09:59:05 AM

only breath of fire 5? no love for the old ones?

and shadowrun? isn't that western?

Breath of Fire series is fucking SHIT until 5.

Okay, replace Shadowrun with Parasite Eve.

MCD · « **Reply #56 on:** March 21, 2008, 10:01:28 AM »

Eric P · « **Reply #57 on:** March 21, 2008, 10:03:39 AM »

Quote from: recursivelyenumerable on March 20, 2008, 11:58:29 PM

Quote
spelunking game

(Image removed from quote.)

i played that

there was a company named spinnaker which did a semiregular release of educational software / games back in the apple 2 days which were pretty awesome.

i don't know why, but this screen shot reminds me of those days

the end

Mupepe · « **Reply #58 on:** March 21, 2008, 10:47:00 AM »

Quote from: demi on March 20, 2008, 07:37:46 PM

To avoid redundancies, only the best installment of a franchise will be chosen as a representative. The exception to this rule includes the Final Fantasy games, many of which are so vastly different from each other that they can barely be recognized as part of the same series, outside of the name.

So what they really mean is "the exceptiong being final fantasy because fagboys would have a fit"

ff viii should be above vii until it gets a new translation and doesn't suck.

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Author Topic: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra (Read 7678 times)