First Too Human review

[Narag]

well you're not going to believe what dyack has done now 

Did he call out GAF on 1up yours?

[Grecco]

Was just about to post it.

He trully is fucking insane.


Forums are on the "Decline"? ahahaahahahahha

According to Dyack, the infamous NeoGAF thread was started as an experiment to expose the lack of accountability in online forums. "I was basically calling out people who had no way of assessing the game," Dyack says, adding, "All I wanted to point out to people is that this is so ridiculous." Near the end of the segment, he lays out exactly why he made the post:


"I went through all of this for two reasons.... If you're going to look at the NeoGAF forum as a non-profit organization, if it does not reform itself, it's eventually going to crumble. There's going to be a point where they step over the line where someone's going to shut them down. That would be a loss for everyone.... The question I have to ask the moderators of GAF: Are you going to follow your own rules? With people making GIFs of myself that are, I would say, attacking me.... Why haven't 180 people been banned now? If I wanted to move in and shut that place down, do I have grounds under their own forum policy?"

[AdmiralViscen]

What the fuck doe sthat even mean

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

He isn't insane, just desperate.  This is supposed to be his magnum opus and it is getting shat on for being mediocre.

[Grecco]

He wants to be this intelectual elitist giant but he sounds like a stupid poser who knows fancy words. What an idiot. He believes that Neogaf is on the decline BUT needs to be reeled in because of its negative effect on the industry. What a Moron.


I really think he suffered a head injury in the past couple of years. I remember him posting years ago at the planetgamecube forums when i scoured that in my pregaf days and he was a sane likeable developer and poster.

[y2kev]

he was kicked in the head by one of his staffers after the e3 2k6 showing

[duckman2000]

He's a jilted nerd. No more, no less. Did I already tell the story of my remarkably nerdy friend, who would go to great lengths to prove that he was right about things? Of course, over time people would begin to contest his claims simply because it was fun to watch him pour time and money into researching whatever the subject was, and his revelations would be the source of much laughter. He never understood why it was so funny, or why people were really enthralled by these revelations. That's Dyack right there, trying to make a big point in a forum where everyone is simply having fun poking the self-important skinless boar.

[AdmiralViscen]

Fat nerds, especially.

[duckman2000]

Fat nerds, especially.

Incidentally, the nerd friend from the story above was quite rotund.

[y2kev]

Too Human fans have already kind of insulated themselves. Even if the demo comes out and is terrible, Dyack has provided a vast array of tools for them to use to keep their hope up. Hell, Dyack convinced 1up that his preview build is not at all representative of the final copy!

[brawndolicious]

So the game is impressive technically, all of the writing is good, and the combat works out well except that it rerquires reading through the instruction manual.  If you go into the game expecting the crap ending, you'd probably have a lot of fun.  It sounds about as good as you could expect a game in this genre to be.

*leaves everybody back to thei anti-Dyack circle-jerk*

[Draft]

So the game is impressive technically, all of the writing is good, and the combat works out well except that it rerquires reading through the instruction manual.  If you go into the game expecting the crap ending, you'd probably have a lot of fun.  It sounds about as good as you could expect a game in this genre to be.

*leaves everybody back to thei anti-Dyack circle-jerk*

It's not, it's not and I don't know, the combat could be fun. Maybe.

But the game is pretty wack looking and the dialog is some cheesy shit.

[duckman2000]

So the game is impressive technically, all of the writing is good, and the combat works out well except that it rerquires reading through the instruction manual.  If you go into the game expecting the crap ending, you'd probably have a lot of fun.  It sounds about as good as you could expect a game in this genre to be.

*leaves everybody back to thei anti-Dyack circle-jerk*

Actually, it sounds, even from the most positive previews, like pretty much everything is "alright, I guess," which is hardly what one should expect of any game, especially one that was supposed to excel in so many genres. I mean, what with its groundbreaking camera and combat system, and its incredible story and all. These positive previews seem to base the lack of spit on that it's sort of alright, if you expect crap. When in the fuck was the last time a previously hyped (by its preview- and hype-hating creator, no less) high profile game received that type of silk glove treatment?

And regardless of how little playtime we've had with the game, there's still plenty of grounds to judge it on. I know it looks bug nasty, that the character animation makes for good jokes of the "less than human" sort, and that the cut-scenes shown so far are absolutely laughable. But you know, loot and clink clonk robot fighting and stuff, that's cool rite?

[brawndolicious]

It's not, it's not and I don't know, the combat could be fun. Maybe.
But the game is pretty wack looking and the dialog is some cheesy shit.

actually the reviewer makes it pretty clear that he thinks that the story sections and writing are interesting, that the gameplay is fun once you get used to it, and that there is no framerate drop or loading(which is what I consider technically impressive.  The only really huge flaw is that it has a cliffhanger without explaining really how the whole game world works.  If you go into a fun game with a good story and no loading times expecting the crappy ending, you'll probably LIKE it.

He also makes it very clear that it has "redeeming qualities but isn't for everyone".  He says that the game will probably get mixed reviews.  No part of the review sounded like he was being biased towards SK.  I do hope that the game has 10-20 hours of non-story advancing missions though.

duckman, it's sort of a bad idea to judge a game's animation or story before playing it.  that review does make me want to play the game more actually.

[Tieno]

It's not, it's not and I don't know, the combat could be fun. Maybe.
But the game is pretty wack looking and the dialog is some cheesy shit.

actually the reviewer makes it pretty clear that he thinks that the story sections and writing are interesting, that the gameplay is fun once you get used to it, and that there is no framerate drop or loading(which is what I consider technically impressive.  The only really huge flaw is that it has a cliffhanger without explaining really how the whole game world works.  If you go into a fun game with a good story and no loading times expecting the crappy ending, you'll probably LIKE it.

He also makes it very clear that it has "redeeming qualities but isn't for everyone".  He says that the game will probably get mixed reviews.  No part of the review sounded like he was being biased towards SK.  I do hope that the game has 10-20 hours of non-story advancing missions though.

duckman, it's sort of a bad idea to judge a game's animation or story before playing it.  that review does make me want to play the game more actually.

You can judge the animation very well on all the videos they've put out so far. It's all very disconnected, nothing is fluid, everything is separated, no animation flows nicely into the next one. It's like the animation has horrible framerate problems.

[Grecco]

I agree with Draft. I remember the mega hype coming with the First Fable because of the mounds of hyperoble from Peter Moleneoux (sp) and i dont remember reviewers giving it the silk treatment like they have given Too Human. A Game that according to DD would own God of War and Devil May Cry combat wise.

[duckman2000]

duckman, it's sort of a bad idea to judge a game's animation or story before playing it.  that review does make me want to play the game more actually.

Huh? Why? I can see how the characters move (which is to say, like shit), and I've watched one of the most excruciatingly cheesy shit cut-scenes of recent years. And what's worse, it's all bloody serious too. I'm not going to say anything about all of the cut-scenes as I've only observed a couple, but what I've seen doesn't warrant any positivity whatsoever. And even if those are the only bad cut-scenes in the game, at least the "Nine months later" scene is so outrageously shitty that it should be mentioned and scoffed at by anyone previewing, or reviewing, the game. But they won't, because editors are scrambling for ways to let this one land softly. Which is comical in itself, as Dyack has fought against these editors for the past few years. I guess he won.

[cool breeze]

I agree with Draft. I remember the mega hype coming with the First Fable because of the mounds of hyperoble from Peter Moleneoux (sp) and i dont remember reviewers giving it the silk treatment like they have given Too Human. A Game that according to DD would own God of War and Devil May Cry combat wise.

It is the same reason people don't feel bad for someone when they don't get first place in the regular Olympics, but feel bad for all the losers in the Special Olympics.

[duckman2000]

The animation is what it is because of the requirements of the control scheme. Canned animations like in most hack'n'slashers don't apply here quite in the same way.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11839078&postcount=215

Too Human apologists are the real jokes here. This guy and hysterical Xbox-anything defender BenjaminBirdie need to get together and bone it out. Kittonwy actually seems like a well balanced character when in the company of these guys, that should say something.

[duckman2000]

I agree with Draft. I remember the mega hype coming with the First Fable because of the mounds of hyperoble from Peter Moleneoux (sp) and i dont remember reviewers giving it the silk treatment like they have given Too Human. A Game that according to DD would own God of War and Devil May Cry combat wise.

I argued for Fable to get a fair hearing irrespective of what failed to make it into the game, and I'd say the same for Too Human here. But I also think Dyack should be openly challenged on his words. If you've fucked up, the logical response is to either come clear about it, or simply shut up. Dyack has done neither, he has simply disowned his previous claims (and somehow managed to place accountability on those who have expected him to live up to his own talk) and moved the goal posts where and when necessary to make sure that he is always without fault, and really, just a victim of circumstance. And while Fable failed to be what is was said to be, it still excelled in quite a few ways, not least in terms of artistry (and craftsmanship) and presentation. Too Human? It gets by on the notion of being something similar to Diablo, filling the empty spot while gamers wait for the real guest of honor to appear. It doesn't seem to excel in any way, but certainly fails in some.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

I think that in the end, Too Human will just be treated as an appetizer until Diablo 3 comes out which is not too far after Too Human.  It certainly does not show any "classic" potential.  Eternal Darkness is considered great for some reason when in reality, people liked it because there was such a game drought for the Game Cube that fanboys rushed to it en masse.  They liked Twin Snakes because it was Metal Gear on the Game Cube.  Other than Ghost Babel for GBC, there hasn't been a Metal Gear on a Nintendo machine since the late 80s.  Both games had heavy flaws but because of their novelty appeal, they have went down as good games.

I would like to think that this comes into play for TH's mediocrity.  Since people thought ED and TS were so great, that while TH might top both of those efforts, in the gaming scene in general, this barely registers as anything to be excited about.  Silicon Knights simply is not a good developer.  It is a harsh moment when you realize that if you try hard and your best just is not good enough.

In the past, Dyack had very good self PR.  That is because he was with Nintendo fanboys who hardly have premier tastes in gaming.  That or the Sony days when the PlayStation was just a pup and any good game was a very good thing.

TH is Dyack's first real serving of reality and he is handling it poorly.

[brawndolicious]

maybe but the game sounds like it'll be good.

[archie4208]

As long as the cutscenes are skippable and there is phat lewt, the game can't be that bad.

[duckman2000]

Good doesn't cut it for this one. Or, as a standalone product, separated from its legacy, maybe good does cut it. But I've developed a personal interest in pushing Dyack's earlier claims into the light; earlier it was based squarely on what I consider a pitiful usage of culture and myth, but now it's really more of a general railing against pre-release claims. If everything goes according to plan, developers will perhaps shy away from talking up their groundbreaking trilogies until they have produced a high quality first "chapter."

And for all of Dyack's big talk about wanting to change the world, it all comes down to that he doesn't like when his game gets criticized. It's not about some greater justice here, just your common jilted nerd-rage, drummed up to seem significantly larger than it is. Maybe I'd have bought into it if Dyack addressed both sides of the coin, but that certainly hasn't happened. I have yet to see the man rage against people who talk well of his game, even if those people have never actually played it and are judging the game from the same material that the supposedly blind haters have access to.

As long as the cutscenes are skippable and there is phat lewt, the game can't be that bad.

Sounds like a great position for a high profile, Microsoft-published game.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

As long as the cutscenes are skippable and there is phat lewt, the game can't be that bad.

Yeah but why do you want to spend your money on something that "can't be that bad"?  It isn't like the 360 has a drought of games or that Diablo 3 isn't coming shortly after it.  Why settle for mock tender steak when you can have beef tenderloin (Diablo 3) instead?

[archie4208]

I'll rent it.  My Gamefly queue pratically empty right now anyway.  I'm not going to drop $60 for this turd, but it'll entertain me for a few hours.  And Diablo 3 isn't coming out for a long time.

[Van Cruncheon]

Yeah but why do you want to spend your money on something that "can't be that bad"?  It isn't like the 360 has a drought of games or that Diablo 3 isn't coming shortly after it.  Why settle for mock tender steak when you can have beef tenderloin (Diablo 3) instead?

what what

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

Yeah but why do you want to spend your money on something that "can't be that bad"?  It isn't like the 360 has a drought of games or that Diablo 3 isn't coming shortly after it.  Why settle for mock tender steak when you can have beef tenderloin (Diablo 3) instead?

what what

I thought it was coming soon, as in sometime this year.  My mistake.

Still, with something 1000x better on the horizon, why would you waste your time with crap like Too Human?  Patience is a virtue.

[Van Cruncheon]

yeeeaaaaaaah

[Van Cruncheon]

And Diablo 3 isn't coming out for a long time.

sept. 13th 2010

fix'd

[siamesedreamer]

TH is Dyack's first real serving of reality and he is handling it poorly.

That's an understatement.

I wonder how others at SK view his shenanigans? Facepalm.gif?

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

TH is Dyack's first real serving of reality and he is handling it poorly.

That's an understatement.

I wonder how others at SK view his shenanigans? Facepalm.gif?

I could see a lot of them being rabidly pro Dyack.  I'm sure there's a few SK employees that have had their faces in their palms a couple times in the past few weeks.  They probably started updating their resumes.

[Great Rumbler]

I'll rent it.  My Gamefly queue pratically empty right now anyway.  I'm not going to drop $60 for this turd, but it'll entertain me for a few hours.  And Diablo 3 isn't coming out for a long time.

Diablo 3 probably won't hit until at least late next year. So, fill in that gap with awesome Titan Quest, not "couldn't be that bad" Too Human.

[Jansen]

after all of denis' crazy shenanigans and the horrible cutscene reveal i can't wait to play too human now. well that and i prefer to play a game before ultimately  declaring it completely, totally, and utterly shitty like some asstards.

[bork]

Sacred 2 is coming to 360 with four-player online; fuck this shitty game.  I might have given it a chance, but then listening to Denis Dyack go insane on the last 1up Podcast pretty much sealed the deal.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

after all of denis' crazy shenanigans and the horrible cutscene reveal i can't wait to play too human now. well that and i prefer to play a game before ultimately  declaring it completely, totally, and utterly shitty like some asstards.

Some people know that a pile of dog shit would taste nasty but some prefer to taste it themselves before making judgment.

[Jansen]

thankfully i don't use that logic in my approach to gaming. otherwise i'd of missed out on some gems in the past.

please note that by all current indications i do not think TH will be a "gem".

dayum

[brawndolicious]

Good doesn't cut it for this one. Or, as a standalone product, separated from its legacy, maybe good does cut it. But I've developed a personal interest in pushing Dyack's earlier claims into the light; earlier it was based squarely on what I consider a pitiful usage of culture and myth, but now it's really more of a general railing against pre-release claims. If everything goes according to plan, developers will perhaps shy away from talking up their groundbreaking trilogies until they have produced a high quality first "chapter."
And for all of Dyack's big talk about wanting to change the world, it all comes down to that he doesn't like when his game gets criticized. It's not about some greater justice here, just your common jilted nerd-rage, drummed up to seem significantly larger than it is. Maybe I'd have bought into it if Dyack addressed both sides of the coin, but that certainly hasn't happened. I have yet to see the man rage against people who talk well of his game, even if those people have never actually played it and are judging the game from the same material that the supposedly blind haters have access to.

yeah, I can see how you might have some issues with the setting with how it portrays technology and magic and all the claims that Dyack made about the story possibly influencing the rest of the industry, but it's still going to have less verbal diarrhea (per second) than MGS so if you try to judge the game on it's merits and not on what ONE guy has been saying, I'm sure you'd like the game.  While Dyack might think way too much of his writing skills, I think that's good that he's that confident when he's making a game since that could encourage him to try to tell the story through the actual game which is always much more interesting.  you should be open-minded enough to see how good or bad his combination of norse mythology and moral tale about technology in society works out.  I'm not saying that you have to buy the game, but you should wait for the actual REVIEWS.

[Phoenix Dark]

why do you guys care? i'll never understand why internet cretins feels empowered by the ability to criticize people who are getting paid to make dumb shit. 7 pages of you tards regurgitating the same points and jests, waiting in anticipation of reviews that better fall in line with your opinions lest some gaming site be inflicted with 7 more pages of criticism!

[AdmiralViscen]

PD is feisty today 

[Van Cruncheon]

why do you guys care? i'll never understand why internet cretins feels empowered by the ability to criticize people who are getting paid to make dumb shit. 7 pages of you tards regurgitating the same points and jests, waiting in anticipation of reviews that better fall in line with your opinions lest some gaming site be inflicted with 7 more pages of criticism!

a more apt description of your posting history has ne'er been authored

[brawndolicious]

by "reviews" I meant what people on forums say so you can actually ask them and know what kinds of tastes they have.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

thankfully i don't use that logic in my approach to gaming. otherwise i'd of missed out on some gems in the past.

please note that by all current indications i do not think TH will be a "gem".

dayum

I wasn't being entirely serious with that post.  There are only a small handful of instances where the gaming journalism community ignores gems.  The Dynasty Warriors franchise is one of them.  God Hand (the IGN review) is another.  Not too many more.

I find that even with the 7-10 scale that runs rampant these days and it being a preview build, that there is rarely a dramatic difference in quality from what is written about the game six months prior to release to its review to when you play it.  SK are hardly miracle workers and their history comprises of novelty games that are rough around the edges.  I guess take the dip if you want but if it looks like a duck and talks like a duck...

[Fresh Prince]

why do you guys care? i'll never understand why internet cretins feels empowered by the ability to criticize people who are getting paid to make dumb shit. 7 pages of you tards regurgitating the same points and jests, waiting in anticipation of reviews that better fall in line with your opinions lest some gaming site be inflicted with 7 more pages of criticism!

Most forum activity revolves around speculation, 'celebrity', punch lines  and cock measuring. I'm not quite sure what's so suprising about this thread in particular.

[trippingmartian]

why do you guys care? i'll never understand why internet cretins feels empowered by the ability to criticize people who are getting paid to make dumb shit. 7 pages of you tards regurgitating the same points and jests, waiting in anticipation of reviews that better fall in line with your opinions lest some gaming site be inflicted with 7 more pages of criticism!

a more apt description of your posting history has ne'er been authored

Even if he is a hypocrite (I wouldn't know), he's got a point.

[Phoenix Dark]

why do you guys care? i'll never understand why internet cretins feels empowered by the ability to criticize people who are getting paid to make dumb shit. 7 pages of you tards regurgitating the same points and jests, waiting in anticipation of reviews that better fall in line with your opinions lest some gaming site be inflicted with 7 more pages of criticism!

Most forum activity revolves around speculation, 'celebrity', punch lines  and cock measuring. I'm not quite sure what's so suprising about this thread in particular.

I just find it laughable considering the target of this thread is a balding, over weight man who compares his videogames to high class art like Shakespeare. Where is the merit in attacking such a pathetic target?

[abrader]

Shakespeare is 'high class art'?

hahaha

[Phoenix Dark]

why do you guys care? i'll never understand why internet cretins feels empowered by the ability to criticize people who are getting paid to make dumb shit. 7 pages of you tards regurgitating the same points and jests, waiting in anticipation of reviews that better fall in line with your opinions lest some gaming site be inflicted with 7 more pages of criticism!

Most forum activity revolves around speculation, 'celebrity', punch lines  and cock measuring. I'm not quite sure what's so suprising about this thread in particular.

I just find it laughable considering the target of this thread is a balding, over weight man who compares his videogames to high class art like Shakespeare. Where is the merit in attacking such a pathetic target?

And what's your contribution to society?

Being a black man who doesn't bow to statistics, among other things. So don't make me raise the crime rate in Kallymazoo

[duckman2000]

Kalamazoo? I thought you were in Ypsi.

[Phoenix Dark]

I'm in Ypsi, FA is in Kally. But I'll visit and break his knees like he destroyed Maji's stamina  :'( :'( :'(

[Phoenix Dark]

my skills are unmatched. i'm like that white guy who just shoots the j, and makes it every time. leave the paint to the kiddies

[duckman2000]

Matt to the rescue!

I'm sure there will be those out there who hate Too Human. I get the feeling some people actually want to hate it. But I really don't think the hate is warranted.

http://blogs.ign.com/Matt-IGN/2008/07/07/95058/

Dyack's bestest buddy Matt doesn't think the hate is warranted. Big surprise. The fact that Matt of all people can't bring himself to lift the game to the heavens, that should say something.

[y2kev]

Even that review poses the question, "Dunno if it will be great or just good."

And this is from Matt. Majorly epic bomba incoming.

[cool breeze]

I'm sure there will be those out there who love Too Human. I get the feeling some people actually want to love it. But I really don't think the love is warranted.

Oh shit, That seems just as legit! Someone pistol whip Matt so we can go home already.

[duckman2000]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11876185&postcount=2002

"I don't care how buddy buddy I became with a developer. I somehow doubt they would be willing to put their reputation on the line if a game was shitty. Not only would that make them look like complete asses, but who would ever consider their opinions again? While its a nice scenario to make up in your head its highly doubtful."

Well, it inspired a bit of a chuckle

I'm sure there will be those out there who love Too Human. I get the feeling some people actually want to love it. But I really don't think the love is warranted.

Oh shit, That seems just as legit! Someone pistol whip Matt so we can go home already.

Sort of like this dude then?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11875705&postcount=1998

[Jansen]

I wasn't being entirely serious with that post.  There are only a small handful of instances where the gaming journalism community ignores gems.  The Dynasty Warriors franchise is one of them.  God Hand (the IGN review) is another.  Not too many more.

I find that even with the 7-10 scale that runs rampant these days and it being a preview build, that there is rarely a dramatic difference in quality from what is written about the game six months prior to release to its review to when you play it.  SK are hardly miracle workers and their history comprises of novelty games that are rough around the edges.  I guess take the dip if you want but if it looks like a duck and talks like a duck...

i've never had any intention of buying the game without trying it out first. i'll be gameflying this bitch.

the most i'll lose is some time playing a videogame.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

and a rental slot that i could have filled with a better game

[close]