jonathan blow would rather have a centrino than cell in the ps3

[Van Cruncheon]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Blow 
Kael, the PS3 is basically a strong counterexample to everything you were arguing earlier, so it's weird that you bring it up.

As someone who has done PS3 programming, I think that yes, Sony (and IBM and Toshiba) threw a bunch of money into the toilet, because it's a bad processor design for complex applications (it's probably fine if you want to do DSP though). The single in-order PPU is not fast enough to keep the SPUs fed, and the SPUs have no access to memory, which makes programming for them extremely painful. If you're writing a PS3 game, it is very, very hard to keep the SPUs active doing useful work -- what developers do is they end up expanding other relatively useless things in order to fill SPU time ("Hey, we can have a lot more particles!!!")

PS3 games are pretty much always bottlenecked by the speed of the main game code running on the main core, and of feeding the SPUs and reading back the results.

As a programmer, I would much rather have had a single out-of-order Centrino notebook processor, or something like that. I guarantee you that if that were the chip in the PS3 instead of Cell, games would run faster, they would be released with shorter development cycles, and they would have fewer bugs.

http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?p=1395510#post1395510

cell budget cpu

[Smooth Groove]

Why the hell did Sony bet the farm on cell?  A Geforce 8 is just as capable at video processing and exponentialy better than the Cell at graphics, physics, folding and basically anything.

[cool breeze]

Carmack saying the PS3 is technically inefficient means a lot.  Blow saying the PS3 is technically inefficient doesn't mean shit.  But it is fine, we already have a large number of capable devs talking about how messy it is to work on the PS3.

Why the hell did Sony bet the farm on cell?  A Geforce 8 is just as capable at video processing and exponentialy better than the Cell at graphics, physics, folding and basically anything.

They probably thought it would make sense to allocate various parts to specific tasks or something.

[Van Cruncheon]

blow's a sharp fuckin' programmer. he's done a lot of work in parallelization, especially in cluster computing. braid was a vanity piece, not a tech demo.

[Van Cruncheon]

man, and i remember when i got flamed on gaf for sayin' the cell was roughly as performant as a t2xxx class centrino dual-core. bitches were tryin' to front like the ps3 hardware could stack up to q6600 + 8800gtx. VINDICATED!

[demi]

he's still a dickhead

[Van Cruncheon]

so 're you, but i'd still let you put your sin inside me

[Smooth Groove]

Nvidia just released CUDA software so that Gefoce 8 and above GPUs can fold.  I bet just we few PC gamers here can beat GAF's whole SDF team at folding.  

[demi]

I'm a nice guy

[Eel O'Brian]

blow's a sharp fuckin' programmer.

maybe in his next game that will counterbalance his extremely dull writing

[Eel O'Brian]

how many cells are required to power 16 hours of pretentious twattery

[Oblivion]

lol his last name is blow

what's this guy done, actually?

[Sho Nuff]

Blow is the king shit at the Indie Game Jam, which rocks your socks

I have also seen him do backflips onto a stage at GDC

Can you do backflips? Then STFU

[TVC15]

blow's a sharp fuckin' programmer.

maybe in his next game that will counterbalance his extremely dull writing

Makes me wonder:  If Braid were released on the PS3, would the fans of the equally shitty games Ico and SotC be all over it?

[archie4208]

lol his last name is blow

what's this guy done, actually?

Made a glossed up flash game and tried to pass it off as "art".

[drohne]

i dunno why braid gets the 'flash game' line -- its art doesn't look at all vectory -- in fact it's really lush and layered

[pilonv1]

the music destroys any flash or wii game too. utterly fantastic

[Sho Nuff]

This game makes me feel smart even though I'm not

[demi]

Why couldnt anyone else other than Blow make Braid... I'd be glad to be on your side

Oh Blow, why must you be such an asswipe

[cool breeze]

the music destroys any flash or wii game too. utterly fantastic

Very true.  The music in Braid is actually really well chosen and fits the pieces of the game they play in.

i dunno why braid gets the 'flash game' line -- its art doesn't look at all vectory -- in fact it's really lush and layered

Despite liking the game quite a bit, I still do think of it as a flash game with a bigger budget.  I usually liken obvious gimmicky game mechanics to flash games, and Braid is like 4 gimmicks in one.  And outside of the actual characters, the game does look quite good; the backgrounds are very lush and colorful in a wet way (if that make sense), but the actual characters themselves look awful.

[Joe Molotov]

blow's a sharp fuckin' programmer.

maybe in his next game that will counterbalance his extremely dull writing

Makes me wonder:  If Braid were released on the PS3, would the fans of the equally shitty games Ico and SotC be all over it?

I think the answer to that should be obvious.

[Smooth Groove]

Jonathan Blow:"Everyone knows the PS3 was a mistake."



Blow>3rd rate programmers that post at GAF

[MrAngryFace]

the music destroys any flash or wii game too. utterly fantastic

grab it all on itunes through the iMix

[Smooth Groove]

Is the Itune store better for videogame music than Zune marketplace?

[homborg]

please stow the "indie game developers are better than most people" bullshit and focus on dissing the PS3 plz

[Hitler Stole My Potato]

Makes me wonder:  If Braid were released on the PS3, would the fans of the equally shitty games Ico and SotC be all over it?

smh

Oh TVC. Ico and SOTC are fucking great and totally one of a kind experiences.  Nothing really like either of them out there.

[Van Cruncheon]

i could never get into sotc long enough to hold a credible opinion on it, but i can think of a few comparable experiences to ico: smashing my testicles with a tack hammer, getting raped by a grizzly, and inviting john wayne gacy to a barbecue come to mind

[MCD]

i like sotc since the main idea behind it is fighting bosses and i love that.

ico though is pretty boring.

[MrAngryFace]

SotC needs a camera that doesnt blow goats

[MrAngryFace]

Is the Itune store better for videogame music than Zune marketplace?

Well Braid uses music from a few particular artists, its not 'videogame music'

[Oblivion]

I really dug SotC. Kickass boss battles and fuck awesome soundtrack.

But yeah, didn't care much for Ico. 

[cool breeze]

I liked both SotC and Ico.  I think that SotC is a great example of a game that was held back by help back by the hardware capabilities of a last gen system.  It was a technical nightmare; the image quality and all the damn jaggies were terrible, constant frame rate drops and generally choppy motion to everything.  It was really a shame since the idea of scaling a giant beast and systematically taking him down was awesome, and I did enjoy the game, but it could have been so much better on the PS3, 30, or PC.

[TVC15]

Makes me wonder:  If Braid were released on the PS3, would the fans of the equally shitty games Ico and SotC be all over it?

smh

Oh TVC. Ico and SOTC are fucking great and totally one of a kind experiences.  Nothing really like either of them out there.

Well, SotC was a slight improvement.  The horse controls blew ass and the game was basically contentless, but it was still an improvement.

[JustinP]

i don't understand the bitching over horse controls and camera in sotc.  both were fine. 

[MrAngryFace]

BOBOOBOBO SONY FANDOM OVERRIDING COMMON SENSE BOBOBO ErROR ERrOR MUST SAY DONT UNDERSTAND MUST SAY FINE MUST BUY STUPID FUCKinG SONY GAMEs

[Oblivion]

Makes me wonder:  If Braid were released on the PS3, would the fans of the equally shitty games Ico and SotC be all over it?

smh

Oh TVC. Ico and SOTC are fucking great and totally one of a kind experiences.  Nothing really like either of them out there.

Well, SotC was a slight improvement.  The horse controls blew ass and the game was basically contentless, but it was still an improvement.

This. I have no goddamn clue why people say the controls are intuitive or whatever. They are incredibly cumbersome. I mean, sure it's nice that the horse can guide himself through curves, but nearly at every other instance, he's a fuckin jerk to control.

[WrikaWrek]

The guy must be stupid.

[Smooth Groove]

Storytelling in SOTC was awful as well.  When will devs stop trying to make games like Oscar movies?

[JustinP]

i don't understand the bitching over horse controls and camera in sotc.  both were fine. 

I can deal with the horse controls (best looking horse in a game) but the camera during the actual gameplay was awful.

i don't see how it was worse than any other free-view 3rd person game that lets you control the camera.  though, i didn't really have a problem with ninja gaiden's camera, either.  controlling the camera is similar to how you aim in first person games--it's just how you look around and you happen to also see your character.  it seems like some people want the game to play itself.   

[JustinP]

Storytelling in SOTC was awful as well.  When will devs stop trying to make games like Oscar movies?

SotC is right up there with half-life (2) as far as storytelling goes.  just a slightly different approach, although it's really not that much different if you think about it.  what game, in your opinion, is so great about storytelling?

[Hitler Stole My Potato]

The horse camera was bullshit in SOTC, especially during the fight with the snake-like colossus in the cave.   Having to ride the horse and turn around to fire an arrow into its eye was beyond broken.  It felt like I was controlling a ham sandwich.

[JustinP]

ah, yeah that part was hard

[cool breeze]

i don't understand the bitching over horse controls and camera in sotc.  both were fine. 

I liked the horse controls quite a bit, but the camera did suck.

Storytelling in SOTC was awful as well.  When will devs stop trying to make games like Oscar movies?

SOTC is actually a dev doing the opposite of trying to model a game after a movie.

[Positive Touch]

the game didn't even have a fucking story. opening cutscene, kill bosses, ending cutscene.  big deal.

[Positive Touch]

ya know what would have made the game better?  having actual obstacles and puzzles in the enviroment instead of FUCKING NOTHING

[JustinP]

the game didn't even have a fucking story. opening cutscene, kill bosses, ending cutscene.  big deal.

be more observant. 

[drohne]

ico is lean as an olympic swimmer and kind of a masterpiece on its own modest terms -- you folks must hate it for political reasons, for the people who like it and the games it's grouped with, because the thing itself is just about irreproachable. sotc i can never bring myself to play for more than an hour or so

[cool breeze]

the game didn't even have a fucking story. opening cutscene, kill bosses, ending cutscene.  big deal.

The story is pretty obvious.  This isn't Braid where you need to sniff glue to somehow turn flags, bad writing that makes me blush, and random other shit means this game is an allegory for the atom bomb.

[Smooth Groove]

I liked ICO more than SOTC as well. 

SOTC's minimalist approach makes me 

i don't understand the bitching over horse controls and camera in sotc.  both were fine. 

I liked the horse controls quite a bit, but the camera did suck.

Storytelling in SOTC was awful as well.  When will devs stop trying to make games like Oscar movies?

SOTC is actually a dev doing the opposite of trying to model a game after a movie.

SOTC has an abstract plot like many artsy films.  Minimalism doesn't work as well in videogames though. 

[JustinP]

SOTC has an abstract plot like many artsy films.  Minimalism doesn't work as well in videogames though. 

i don't see why not.  every game doesn't have to fit the popcorn flick mold and entertain ever joe shmoe. 

I had a pretty big problem with NG's camera as well, to the point where the whole game suffered from it.  If you have to babysit the camera that isn't a good thing.

so like, how do you even play FPS?  you can't even function without controlling the 'camera' in FPS--what makes 3rd person action games so different?  having your character in view really doesn't change things all that much. 

[drohne]

every game has to fit the popcorn flick mold and entertain every joe shmoe.

that's quietly becoming the unstated principle of a lot of evilbore groupthink

[JustinP]

um...are you serious?

in first person games, you're always controlling the camera--your view.  if you don't "babysit" your view, you can't even play the game.  third person games with camera control don't typically require precise control of the camera, but the general concept is the same -- you point the camera in the direction you want to look...  just like in FPS games.  

why do you think going into third person suddenly means you don't have to look where you're going?

[TVC15]

ico is lean as an olympic swimmer and kind of a masterpiece on its own modest terms -- you folks must hate it for political reasons, for the people who like it and the games it's grouped with, because the thing itself is just about irreproachable. sotc i can never bring myself to play for more than an hour or so

I dislike it because it's not fun and I hate escort missions.  This latter is also why I hate RE4.

[drohne]

but ico isn't an escort mission in any meaningful sense -- in game design terms, yorda's basically a cumbersome object that opens doors, and moving her around is good puzzly fun. i hate escort missions too. but come to think of it the best room in re4 was pretty heavy on the escorting -- i'm thinking of that one room with a big oblong pool in the middle and ten billion evil monks

[Eel O'Brian]

evilbore groupthink 

like we all aren't constantly at each other's throats

[cool breeze]

I dislike it because it's not fun and I hate escort missions.  This latter is also why I hate RE4.

RE4 was barely an escort mission.  You tell her to sit in the corner while you go out guns blazing.

evilbore groupthink 

like we all aren't constantly at each other's throats

Screw you, buddy! I think we are a groupthink.  Agree with meee!

[drohne]

evilbore is all about the groupthink, though people here are so frank about their mutual masturbation that it all somehow works

[MCD]

with that new avatar, i can't tell if drohne is joking or not.

[TVC15]

evilbore is all about the groupthink, though people here are so frank about their mutual masturbation that it all somehow works

No groupthink or system bias on this one.  I've disliked Ico since I first played it, long before Glorious MS was a viable player in home gaming.

[drohne]

with that new avatar, i can't tell if drohne is joking or not.

i was looking through evilbore's inexplicable selection of prefab celebrity avatars last night, and i'm pretty sure this is the best one. seeing it next to my posts is HILARIOUS to me in some unhealthy way

WHY IS HE DIAGONAL

No groupthink or system bias on this one.  I've disliked Ico since I first played it, long before Glorious MS was a viable player in home gaming.

cool. and i don't really mean to question people's motivations. for my part i hate lots of games for bad reasons