It's funny how close fundamentalists and atheists actually are

[demi]

i am but a simple man who lives for the small things

[Hollywood]

Because I would like to know more information to have an opinion on something makes me arrogant? WTF? Christianity doesn't have anything to do with that, BTW. And isn't this the same argument thats been going on the past several years with the Iraq War? "Let's not be arrogant here, Iraq has WMD's, no need to wait for evidence. Fuck em, lets invade that shit."

you need an opinion based on facts and info to make up your mind about the other side? Why not apply that to christianity? :baffle.

no , this is not the same as Iraq at all - that's just using a completely unrelated analogy to try and pain doubt on something there is actual -evidence- for. Do not mix SCIENCE with POLITICS.

note : i was raised a roman catholic, in a strong irish catholic family. I was left to my own devices to figure all this out, but having a good education and a grounding in science makes believing in the Catholic God very very unlikely. I'm open to the idea of some sort of supreme conciousness or whatever, but MANMADE attempts to put this into some sort of packagable religion are, quite frankly, laughable.

Can you give me any evidence to the contrary as to why catholicism shouldn't be laughed out of existance?
and if you mention morality collapsing if there is no ultimate punishment, i will reach through the internet and shit on your face.

Well, a good part of it is on faith. Maybe I don't have a darn reason or proof to believe this way, but I think there's probably an afterlife for those who look for it. More than that, I think the Bible is a pretty good book on parables with meanings on just about everything. Not that I go to it often and read it, but there's some pretty good lessons in it.

pretty good lessons != there is a god.


 

Yeah sorry - if I don't think there's a simple answer to you know, the biggest question in the history of civilization. Not only that, but be arrogant about it, when I don't have a reason to.

As for Catholism, maybe you're right - there could be any religion founded. So go found one, see how successful it is. All I know is there was a nice set of "coincidences" that lined up in the Abrahamic tradition that pushed this all through. Maybe these beliefs came out of thin air and everyone just started to believe and they did. Not everyone believed in this afterlife thing you know? The prevailing belief was you goto a land of the dead (can't remember the name, it escapes me.) It must have took a hell of a salesman to push this belief against the grain of what was going on at the time.

As for Jesus, maybe its one big joke - maybe the guy was just killed and that was it. But I find it odd that during those teams there were tons of revolutionary messianic sects, and *this* one just happened to survive. Why would the disciples go spread this after the leader died? Yet, how did this line religion survive years of persecution? I doubt "Laughter" is going to push the Christian religion out of existence when years of persecution from the Roman Empire and other hierarchies couldn't.

Maybe there's no reason to believe it, but it sure doesn't seem to be too bad to be on a side as resilient as that. It could have been crushed or a rejected belief like probably thousands of small cults back then and wasn't.

[Candyflip]

Ignore me. I'm drunk, stupid, and illiterate

[Bildi]

i am but a simple man who lives for the small things

So you're saying god has a small cock.

I can respect that.

[Hollywood]

how did this line religion survive years of persecution?

Not like there are other organized religions with equally extensive pasts still present in the contemporary world or anything

Didn't say there weren't. Maybe its being helped along by ET's who just want to fuck with people or a higher power that is doing it all over and there's just different paths. Who knows? Just saying, some people tend to sound like you write a book and suddenly have a longterm religion. The in's and out's of it are interesting how so many ancient religions are around, and supernatural events documented in each, whether you believe them or not.

[Cormacaroni]

The in's and out's of it are interesting how so many ancient religions are around, and supernatural events documented in each, whether you believe them or not.

why did these supernatural events stop occuring after we got out of that weird "what one person writes is fact" time? anyone have any ideas?!

We invented 'science' and entered the 'age of reason'.

[demi]

i am but a simple man who lives for the small things

So you're saying god has a small cock.

I can respect that.

It's not about what God can do with his cock

It's about what I can do for God's cock

[TVC15]

how did this line religion survive years of persecution?

Not like there are other organized religions with equally extensive pasts still present in the contemporary world or anything

Didn't say there weren't. Maybe its being helped along by ET's who just want to fuck with people or a higher power that is doing it all over and there's just different paths. Who knows? Just saying, some people tend to sound like you write a book and suddenly have a longterm religion. The in's and out's of it are interesting how so many ancient religions are around, and supernatural events documented in each, whether you believe them or not.

Write a book = start a religion may have been close to the truth back then, when literacy was through the floor.  And when the church was the only light in the world for nearly a millenium, they certainly didn't help teach people how to read and write.  The fact that the text has survived so long is one of the only reasons Christianity is taken seriously.  If the Bible were "discovered" or written a century ago, we'd be laughing at it like it was mormon bullshit.  I think a valid sociological claim can be made that illiteracy is one of the reasons religion prospered.

[Hollywood]

Maybe these beliefs came out of thin air and everyone just started to believe and they did.

if you do some research, you'll find that almost all the belief systems/stories presented in the bible are derived from even older sources and other stories.

the bible and the religion is pretty much a culmination of a whole history of stories and teachings passed down for multiple generation, most of which are fundamentally simple pointers to being a good person.

That doesn't make the teachings of the bible wrong - i fundamentally believe that the teachings are all sound, however, i don't see how or why attaching a God to these is necessary - at all. The notion presented usually in this case is there is nothing forcing someone to be "good" if there is no divine punishment - i believe this to be a completely empty argument.

As for Jesus, maybe its one big joke - maybe the guy was just killed and that was it. But I find it odd that during those teams there were tons of revolutionary messianic sects, and *this* one just happened to survive. Why would the disciples go spread this after the leader died? Yet, how did this line religion survive years of persecution? I doubt "Laughter" is going to push the Christian religion out of existence when years of persecution from the Roman Empire and other hierarchies couldn't.

it survived and prospered simply because it did or there were controlling factors. You mention christianity, but what is your thoughts on Islam - it's survived longer than christianity and has billions of followers. Who is right? Them or you? there are overlaps of course , but they aren't strictly compatible. Indian gods have been around for similar sorts of times too - why did they survive? what are your thoughts on them?

Christianity can survive as long as it wants, as long as it doesn't interfere with the SCIENTIFIC progress of mankind, then go for it. The second it does, you can all go fuck yourselves.

Islam has survived longer than Christianity? Wasn't Muhammad a few hundred years after Jesus? There's a TON of religions out there, not saying one is more right than another, but that's what the argument always turns into. Wasn't making an argument that the longest surviving religion is the right one. I am just responding to your point about why something shouldn't be laughed out of existence. It's survived a lot more than laughter.

And you end with pretty much the point I'm talking about. "You can all go fuck yourselves" - intolerance for no reason whatsoever, other than you just want to be a prick. It could be me, but I don't think Vatican City has much control of what goes on in the scientific community nowadays, and I'm not opposed to any scientific progress. But hey, generalizations and intolerance - it pretty much proves the point of what I'm talking about, and you didn't disappoint.