Evilbore's Presidential Election Thread --Its the Final COUNTDOWN Ba da ba baaaa

[duckman2000]

3rd strike, America. If you elect this clown duo, you deserve it. I can't even fathom what this place will be like after 4 years with these two and their entourage at the helm. It's just a shame that American trade and "cultural" influence is so great that it will undoubtedly leave marks on the rest of the world too, but hey... maybe this "blame China and everything else foreign, because we are certainly blameless" shit and its potential effect on international politics and trade will effectively limit how much this pick will damage the rest of the world. So, yeah, go John "McCarthy" McCain.

Additionally, Republicans scoring "the environment" as a talking point must be the greatest victory for American industry. Never mind how badly this supposed interest in preservation and conservation conflicts with the pro-industrial and anti-regulatory direction and goals of the political policies of the party, but hey, they talk about the environment which is clearly good enough.

[Mr. Gundam]

My wife and I have convinced her conservative parents in Omaha, NE to vote for Obama. They've never voted for a Democrat before, so this is a big deal in our family. They also can't stand Palin, which helped sway them away from McCain.

[Phoenix Dark]

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/09/todays-polls-99.html
 

debate (sept 26th) can't come soon enough

[Mr. Gundam]

Voters, particularly women, seem to agree, according to new polls. An ABC News-Washington Post survey found white women have moved from backing Obama by 8 points to supporting McCain by 12 points, with majorities viewing Palin favorably and saying she boosts their faith in McCain's decisions.

 

[I'm a Puppy!]

she has a vajayjay she's JUST LIKE Me!!

[MrAngryFace]

Science community is fucked if these guys get in. They were fucked during the bush era, prepare for more fuckage. Wonder why AMERICA isnt destroying the world with the LHC? You shouldn't; its pretty obvious.

[Phoenix Dark]

just released

Latest NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll:
Obama 47, McCain 46
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/080909_NBC-WSJ_Released.pdf

"cream of the crop" poll

Most voters continue to see McCain as an extension of Bush according to the numbers

[MrAngryFace]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/09/mccain-ad-obamas-lone-edu_n_125205.html -- bwahahaha oh McCain, turnin the facts around into crazy talk. That pic of Obama makes me lol tho

[Phoenix Dark]

sex>reading

 

[MrAngryFace]

All he wanted was kids to know what bad touching is, how is that wrong? Jesus McCain! Kids SHOULD know when they are being violated! God damnit you filthy old man!

[Van Cruncheon]

"Last week, John McCain told Time magazine he couldn't define what honor was. Now we know why," said Obama campaign spokesman Bill Burton.

they should've run THAT line in the ad

[MrAngryFace]

I bet republicans could find a better POW to run for president, what a filthy bastard.

[Crushed]

You know what this means, right?

Now they can run an ad saying that McCain supports pedophiles. 





But they won't.  :'(

[Phoenix Dark]

this is the ad that might get drinky to vote McCain

protect the kiddies from the darkie god dammit

[MrAngryFace]

Its not so much that people vote for mccain that bothers me, its that people see this stuff and think that there's nothing wrong with it.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

Iowa should hold strong for Obama.  The Iowa Democrats are rallying around him pretty well and along with the inevitable re-election of Senator Tom Harkin, Obama will win Iowa.

I have to admit that it is probably the best news I could come up with at this time.  distantmantra's quote about white women going from Obama to McCain doesn't surprise me.  Palin could be the world's worst fuckup up a VP and she will still do well because soccer moms recognize their own and they will rabidly defend their own, even to the point of irrationality.  Hopefully not but I've known soccer moms and like types all my life.

The debates are Obama's last hope.

[TakingBackSunday]

Last hope?  He's still up in the national polling.  And that's even with the reported increase in Republicans who were polled in these latest results.

The debates should (note: should) convince the majority of the middle to swing to Obama.  I'm still fairly confident (my post above was agut reaction that was wrong, lol), and now that the media is slowly starting to question Palin, I think everything's gonna be fine.

[Fresh Prince]

So it looks like Experiment was right for now. Man I hoping misogyny wins through.

[y2kev]

The WSJ poll is the only really reliable poll for me. Kerry never was ahead of Bush in 04. The daily poll show the whims and willies of the crazies, but the WSJ poll is pretty steady methinks.

[Eric P]

So it looks like Experiment was right for now. Man I hoping misogyny wins through.

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/09/09/mccain-camp-accuses-obama-of-comparing-palin-to-a-pig/

good news piece

i do, however, find it hilarious that there is a "palin truth squad" who exists to i guess mobilize to be the voice they won't allow her to have

[laesperanzapaz]

willco, make experiment an icon.

[Fresh Prince]

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/09/09/mccain-camp-accuses-obama-of-comparing-palin-to-a-pig/

good news piece

i do, however, find it hilarious that there is a "palin truth squad" who exists to i guess mobilize to be the voice they won't allow her to have

Now we'll see the next 3 days of Obama is sexist 

[TVC15]

The WSJ poll is the only really reliable poll for me. Kerry never was ahead of Bush in 04. The daily poll show the whims and willies of the crazies, but the WSJ poll is pretty steady methinks.

I go by Gallup.  Gallup has only failed once or twice to pick the president.  Zogby is right out because they use online polling of some sort.

[radioheadrule83]

I've been trying to copypasta this info to YouTube vids of Obama's "lipstick on a pig" comments...

Dick Cheney using the same phrase -

McCain himself using it against none other than Hillary Clinton - http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/12/us/politics/12health.html?_r=1&ref=politics&oref=slogin


I do hope that doesn't become a big deal for Obama. His campaign have essentially responded pointing out the same thing I have, but all Fox have to do is air the clip and millions of women (and men) may well feel outraged and not even hear Obama's rebuke.

[Mandark]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/09/mccain-ad-obamas-lone-edu_n_125205.html -- bwahahaha oh McCain, turnin the facts around into crazy talk. That pic of Obama makes me lol tho

Iraq may be a lost cause but McCain is leading the way in the war on satire.

[Human Snorenado]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/09/poll-madness-mccain-takes_n_125158.html

It looks like the polls we've been seeing lately might not be so accurate.

This week's mainstream coverage of the presidential horse-race has been dominated by a series of polls showing the McCain-Palin ticket with its first stable lead over Obama and Biden. Gallup's tracking poll, USA Today and CBS News all show the Republicans with some kind of lead over the Democratic ticket. But, interestingly, all three polls were also conducted using a higher sampling of Republican voters than in July, raising a question of methodology.

In a year in which Democrats have a lead of 11 million registered voters over Republicans, and have been adding to that advantage through a robust field operation, are pollsters over-sampling Republicans?

[Mandark]

Or it could be more people self-identifying as Republicans in the wake of the convention.  People tend to answer polls based on how they're feeling at that very moment rather than how they're registered.

One great example which I'm pretty sure I read in a credible place was that polls in the late 90's which asked about people's past and current views found that only 5% (or some other tiny figure) copped to voting Perot in 92.

[AdmiralViscen]

Or it could be more people self-identifying as Republicans in the wake of the convention.  People tend to answer polls based on how they're feeling at that very moment rather than how they're registered.

One great example which I'm pretty sure I read in a credible place was that polls in the late 90's which asked about people's past and current views found that only 5% (or some other tiny figure) copped to voting Perot in 92.

Yup.

[patrickula]

Bit did McCain and Cheney imply that their opponent's vagina stinks by saying: "wrap an old fish in a piece of paper called change, it’s still going to stink after eight years" 

[MrAngryFace]

isnt speculation a global activity?

[Mandark]

You could probably regulate trade that happens at the NYSE.

Of course it's always massively complicated and I know nothing about financial stuff.

[MrAngryFace]

I BARELY have a savings account, I dont have a head for the stuff either. I assume the 401k I setup is A-OK and that keeps me going,

[Fresh Prince]

Wouldn't that stop investment? Also why stop at oil? What about other commodities such as copper, steel, grain etc?

[MrAngryFace]

I'm not much of an expert on the stock market, so maybe one of you can tell me:

Why can we not outright ban speculation in the oil market? If speculation is largely responsible for oil prices, why is it not heavily regulated, if not outright banned?

Our real oil problem is China, they just need so fucking much, and will continue to need more. Who's to say stop? We did the same thing...relatively speaking.

[Ganhyun]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/09/mccain-ad-obamas-lone-edu_n_125205.html -- bwahahaha oh McCain, turnin the facts around into crazy talk. That pic of Obama makes me lol tho

Iraq may be a lost cause but McCain is leading the way in the war on satire.

Lost cause? Umm, sorry to break it to you man, but that troop surge and the forced cooperation of all Iraqi parties in power has helped over there. You hear less about suicide bombers and such every day. Yea, there are still attacks, but less because the plan is working, just slower than people wanted (plus Democrats in power wanted it to fail anyway to promote their party IMO).

[Ganhyun]

Maybe someone with more economic training can tell me: what are the BENEFITS of allowing trading in futures contracts?

Umm, I'm not trained in it perse, but most speculators trade in oil futures to make money. They have no need for the Oil itself, they just know that Oil, as a gauranteed need of the world, will always be bought. And so when the dollar, since its the currency Oil and other things are mainly traded in, starts tanking, they buy Oil stocks to sell to make up for the money they may have lost in other trading.

It also doesnt help that some of the big investment firms have been caught manipulating the price of Oil, granted, that was before this current focus on the sector.

[Positive Touch]

(plus Democrats in power wanted it to fail anyway to promote their party IMO).

please tell me how one can come to believe something so stupid

[Human Snorenado]

(plus Democrats in power wanted it to fail anyway to promote their party IMO).

please tell me how one can come to believe something so stupid

Have you SEEN the Republican Party Platform?  I mean, really.  People are dumb.  Really, really dumb.

[Positive Touch]

yeah and i don't fucking get it.  i guess most people that i see say ridiculous shit like that tend to be pretty ill-informed, and they fill in the gaps with incomplete or incorrect things they hear from rumors or character assassinations or who the fuck knows where.

(plus Democrats in power wanted it to fail anyway to promote their party IMO).

please tell me how one can come to believe something so stupid

Have you SEEN the Republican Party Platform?  I mean, really.  People are dumb.  Really, really dumb.

[MrAngryFace]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/09/mccain-ad-obamas-lone-edu_n_125205.html -- bwahahaha oh McCain, turnin the facts around into crazy talk. That pic of Obama makes me lol tho

Iraq may be a lost cause but McCain is leading the way in the war on satire.

Lost cause? Umm, sorry to break it to you man, but that troop surge and the forced cooperation of all Iraqi parties in power has helped over there. You hear less about suicide bombers and such every day. Yea, there are still attacks, but less because the plan is working, just slower than people wanted (plus Democrats in power wanted it to fail anyway to promote their party IMO).

Republicans insist that the only thing that mattered was sending more people over, they rarely bring up the paying off of local groups to help out.

[ShogunOfFear]

Have you SEEN the Republican Party Platform?  I mean, really.  People are dumb.  Really, really dumb.

Why must every political discussion turn into insults and name calling?  Opinions and views can differ.

yeah and i don't fucking get it.  i guess most people that i see say ridiculous shit like that tend to be pretty ill-informed, and they fill in the gaps with incomplete or incorrect things they hear from rumors or character assassinations or who the fuck knows where.

I guess they haven't taken enough of these


As to who wanted it to fail, probably only a cynical few, but Harry Reid comes to mind.

[siamesedreamer]

Maybe someone with more economic training can tell me: what are the BENEFITS of allowing trading in futures contracts?

40,000 ft view:

Futures add to the completeness of markets.

They are important for hedging risk and determining future price/demand.

[Ganhyun]

(plus Democrats in power wanted it to fail anyway to promote their party IMO).

please tell me how one can come to believe something so stupid

*Looks at all the responses*

Hmm, looks like I kicked the hornets' nest with this one.  To quote one of your fellow Democrats philosophy: Since you disagree with me, you're a fucking distinguished mentally-challenged fellow.    I also like the whole, anyone who is Conservative is dumb logic too Triumph. Nice.

(Typical. Accuse Republicans/Conservatives of being generalizers then do it yourselves )


But seriously, you can't say that there werent Democrats who seriously wanted it to fail so that they could have a political advantage. Even FA can see it. Sure, most people didn't want it to fail. Most people aren't that cruel. Being unused to anything but the philosophy that those with money or power rule (which is true no matter what anyway) and that if someone disagrees with your position kill them, its taken time to get them to see that they can get their way with other means rather than just killing everyone.

But I do believe the biggest reason most people disliked the Iraqi war is because it took longer than they wanted for us to leave.  Most people think that OMG WERE TEH US WE can do anythin in a day.

I guess they haven't taken enough of these
(Image removed from quote.)

OMG awesome

[ShogunOfFear]

Yeah I saw that maybe her speech writer is on strike.

[I'm a Puppy!]

Maybe someone with more economic training can tell me: what are the BENEFITS of allowing trading in futures contracts?

40,000 ft view:

Futures add to the completeness of markets.

They are important for hedging risk and determining future price/demand.

And an equally important to tool in artificially keeping up prices and securing a maximum profit. Hooray!

[Human Snorenado]

Enough of this bullshit.  Enough.

The past eight years have been a remarkable record of failure in every conceivable, measurable way.  It is time for Republicans to OWN THAT FAILURE.  It happened on your watch.  Reap the whirlwind. 

If someone is working on a motorcycle with a wrench, and discovers that the wrench they're using is the wrong size, they don't keep using that wrench.  They put it down and try another one.  It's that time for America.  On every conceivable issue, Republicans have the same old, failed philosophies.  It's so fucking tiring.  Yes, if you are a conservative and don't want to own the past eight years, you're a fucking distinguished mentally-challenged fellow.  You fucked up and should get your asses kicked for it.  The only reason you might not is that people are irrational and will vote on fears and divisive cultural issues- ones that you guys champion and pick at every four years but really don't ever fucking do anything about.  So, yes.  If you're a Republican these days you're either an idiot or someone preying on the fears of idiots.  End of discussion.

[Beardo]

Maybe someone with more economic training can tell me: what are the BENEFITS of allowing trading in futures contracts?

40,000 ft view:

Futures add to the completeness of markets.

They are important for hedging risk and determining future price/demand.

And an equally important to tool in artificially keeping up prices and securing a maximum profit. Hooray!

If someone is willing to pay that amount or "bet" that the price will increase X amount than it's not artificially increasing prices.

[Beardo]

Enough of this bullshit.  Enough.

The past eight years have been a remarkable record of failure in every conceivable, measurable way.  It is time for Republicans to OWN THAT FAILURE.  It happened on your watch.  Reap the whirlwind. 

If someone is working on a motorcycle with a wrench, and discovers that the wrench they're using is the wrong size, they don't keep using that wrench.  They put it down and try another one.  It's that time for America.  On every conceivable issue, Republicans have the same old, failed philosophies.  It's so fucking tiring.  Yes, if you are a conservative and don't want to own the past eight years, you're a fucking distinguished mentally-challenged fellow.  You fucked up and should get your asses kicked for it.  The only reason you might not is that people are irrational and will vote on fears and divisive cultural issues- ones that you guys champion and pick at every four years but really don't ever fucking do anything about.  So, yes.  If you're a Republican these days you're either an idiot or someone preying on the fears of idiots.  End of discussion.

I hate to break it to you buddy but almost as many democrats in congress voted for the presidents "failures" (patriot act, Iraq war, wiretapping etc...)

[Ganhyun]

By the way, you guys did know that even if he had the knowledge that the surge helped the way it did, Obama would still have voted against it right?


http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2008/07/22/obama-still-against-the-surge/

ABC interview, the guy asked, that if you had the knowledge you had now back at the vote, would you still vote against the surge and Obama said he would.

So, using generalizations, which all political parties seem to do, this means Obama wanted us to fail in Iraq. He wanted US troops to keep dieing so Democrats could gain power.


Here is an opinion piece on it, so take that for what its worth.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/015/329myyan.asp?pg=1
so keep on taking those Blue pills guys

[siamesedreamer]

Admittedly I don't know much about the futures market, but actually trading futures contracts doesn't sound like it's being used to hedge risk.  Entering into the initial futures contract does. 

Price risk, currency exchange risk, etc.

My professor mentioned two big studies done on futures and oil. He said he's going to send them to us. I'll post them when he does.

[Ganhyun]

Enough of this bullshit.  Enough.

The past eight years have been a remarkable record of failure in every conceivable, measurable way.  It is time for Republicans to OWN THAT FAILURE.  It happened on your watch.  Reap the whirlwind. 

If someone is working on a motorcycle with a wrench, and discovers that the wrench they're using is the wrong size, they don't keep using that wrench.  They put it down and try another one.  It's that time for America.  On every conceivable issue, Republicans have the same old, failed philosophies.  It's so fucking tiring.  Yes, if you are a conservative and don't want to own the past eight years, you're a fucking distinguished mentally-challenged fellow.  You fucked up and should get your asses kicked for it.  The only reason you might not is that people are irrational and will vote on fears and divisive cultural issues- ones that you guys champion and pick at every four years but really don't ever fucking do anything about.  So, yes.  If you're a Republican these days you're either an idiot or someone preying on the fears of idiots.  End of discussion.

wow, the nest is really stirring.

Calm down dude, dont have a stroke. You do know that alot of Democrats also voted for said "failures" in your eyes?

Oh wait, someone else already told you in a post. So we both must be fucking distinguished mentally-challenged fellows?

Sure, some things didnt go the way Bush wanted. Same thing happened with Clinton. Both have had unpopular policies/decisions made.

If you thought wiretapping was bad, you must not have read what the Democrats pushed through on the people of the U.S. Calea. The nice ability that allows the government to see anythnig you do on the internet at anytime. Wait? I thought a Democratically controlled congress wouldn't do something like that? Oops. I must have accidentally took a Blue pill by mistake.

guess I need to make sure I dont accidentally take those blue pills. (Ironic isnt it? That the Matrix truth pill was red, and fantasy pill blue? )

But seriously Triumph, cool off, dont have a stroke/heart attack.

By the way: Im not registered Republican or Democrat. I have different views on different things. But I do lean Conservative on some matters. Somewhat Liberal/Moderate on others. So don't try and lump me as generic Republican

[ShogunOfFear]

Enough of this bullshit.  Enough.

The past eight years have been a remarkable record of failure in every conceivable, measurable way.  It is time for Republicans to OWN THAT FAILURE.  It happened on your watch.  Reap the whirlwind. 

If someone is working on a motorcycle with a wrench, and discovers that the wrench they're using is the wrong size, they don't keep using that wrench.  They put it down and try another one.  It's that time for America.  On every conceivable issue, Republicans have the same old, failed philosophies.  It's so fucking tiring.  Yes, if you are a conservative and don't want to own the past eight years, you're a fucking distinguished mentally-challenged fellow.  You fucked up and should get your asses kicked for it.  The only reason you might not is that people are irrational and will vote on fears and divisive cultural issues- ones that you guys champion and pick at every four years but really don't ever fucking do anything about.  So, yes.  If you're a Republican these days you're either an idiot or someone preying on the fears of idiots.  End of discussion.

Why so angry?
You mean like that democratic congress we've had for like the last year and half/two years?  The most unpopular congress in history that sets beside our unpopular president.  I  for one am not a registered R or D so the old R & D blame game matters little to me. 

And this....

I hate to break it to you buddy but almost as many democrats in congress voted for the presidents "failures" (patriot act, Iraq war, wiretapping etc...)

[TakingBackSunday]

*sigh*

The surge worked only partially.  What were the goals of the surge?

1) Reduce violence in Iraq
2) Provide the training and example the Iraqis need to maintain themselves so we CAN leave.

It only has succeeded on the first account.  It's been almost, what, a year since the surge?  What the fuck have they been doing to make the Iraqis independent?  We haven't seen any sort of indication that they can do that.  That's a failure on both sides, not just the Iraqis.

The surge didn't work completely.  I would've still voted against it if I were in Congress.

Beardo: What are you trying to get across?  A lot of those situations and acts were in times when the public was fearful and wanted to see their government do something drastic about it.  And a lot of it was the Republican scare tactics and lies that they STILL rely upon to this day to fill their agenda.  Why do you think we went to war?  Congress was LIED TO!  And people act as the Patriot Act is the one single entity that is so abhorrent, when in truth some articles and lines were seen as completely necessary at the time, and are still seen that way to this day.  It's the controversial parts about it, the ones Feingold was complaining about, that are desired to be revised.  And imagine the turbulant time we were in...wouldn't you have voted for it as well?

And you seem to forget that a) Obama wasn't there for the Patriot Act and b) Obama voted against the Iraq War.

edit:  How the fuck is  slightly Democratic controlled congress going to get shit done with such a stubborn scumfuck as President that vetoes all of their goals and bills?

[radioheadrule83]

Enough of this bullshit.  Enough.

The past eight years have been a remarkable record of failure in every conceivable, measurable way.  It is time for Republicans to OWN THAT FAILURE.  It happened on your watch.  Reap the whirlwind. 

If someone is working on a motorcycle with a wrench, and discovers that the wrench they're using is the wrong size, they don't keep using that wrench.  They put it down and try another one.  It's that time for America.  On every conceivable issue, Republicans have the same old, failed philosophies.  It's so fucking tiring.  Yes, if you are a conservative and don't want to own the past eight years, you're a fucking distinguished mentally-challenged fellow.  You fucked up and should get your asses kicked for it.  The only reason you might not is that people are irrational and will vote on fears and divisive cultural issues- ones that you guys champion and pick at every four years but really don't ever fucking do anything about.  So, yes.  If you're a Republican these days you're either an idiot or someone preying on the fears of idiots.  End of discussion.

I hate to break it to you buddy but almost as many democrats in congress voted for the presidents "failures" (patriot act, Iraq war, wiretapping etc...)

That is true in many respects.

Wrong as it may be, once gaining power in congress, Democrats also had to cherry pick what bills to try and repeal or new ones to push through. They were well aware of the pocket veto. Similarly they wanted to get their own agenda through, and didn't want to scupper it by aggressively going after a sitting President. A shame, I wish Pelosi & co had shown more balls, but this is how this shit works.

You really have to look at who tabled these controversial bills though, remember who the people are behind them, and remember how many of them were painted as patriotic matters of national security. Its in hindsight were voting records look the worst. If I were you guys though, I would still lay the blame for all this mess on neocon republican hawks. They took a national tragedy and used it to stomp all over civil liberties, divert attention away from a just war, and funnel trillions into another.

I agree with Triumph... if people had any sense, the party would reap what its sewn.

[MrAngryFace]

I dont care who voted for what. Why? Because the choices presented were choices constructed from lies. Lies about WMDs, lies about terrorist nests, manipulation using the events of 9/11, I mean the list goes on. Why SHOULD I want to vote for McCain? Originally I didn't entirely mind it if he made it to the oval office. His initial campaign was honest and straightforward, but now all I see from him are cheap plays at stupid American votes, fear mongering, and LIES. Their entire strategy is 'cover our ears and scream the lies till Nov4th - We will see how it turns out! God bless America!

I know the republicans here will rationalize the deceit of the last 8 years with blah blah democrats lie too politicians lie, and I expect that, this is a game for a lot of people. "My side needs to win, that other side is fucking distinguished mentally-challenged tree huggers go get em rich entitled old fucks that lie to me!". Its just depressing to watch this crap. Republicans treat voters like shit, and Democrats are pulled down into the mud by mudslinging THAT WORKS because by and large Americans are fairly stupid, and knee-jerk, and will constantly disappoint anyone but themselves because that apparently is the American way.

[TakingBackSunday]

 

[ShogunOfFear]

I think when history is written it'll be said Iraq was the wrong battlefield and for a number of different reasons.  Problem is arguing whether we should have went or not will not solve anything now.  We are there, that is a fact.  The surge helped as well as forming an alliance with the sons of Iraq.  Two things I think should be addressed are...

1.  Bringing the Sunnis, Sons Of Iraq, together with the Shiite government.  If this doesn't happen all of our gains could be lost.  This is going to be difficult.

2.  It is time for Iraq to start paying some of the bills, they have an economy now.

It's things like this that should be debated and be solved rather than who voted when, so we can get the fuck out of there and prevent the region from breaking into further instability.  Just saying.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

You guys need to calm down.

Almost all of the successes McCain has had with his campaign have been because Obama never even bothered to make them his issues.  McCain made environmentalism his.  The fact that he was able to is a huge fuck up on Obama's part, who has mostly treated energy policy by touching it with no less than a 20 ft pole.  He was scared that the right wingers would hammer him on it.  They did worse; they made the issue theirs.  So now Obama now appears to always be on the defensive and is essentially playing in McCain's playground.

The same thing goes for the gender and race issue.  Obama avoided these issues completely but McCain decided to press forward with it and made it theirs.  So now Obama is known as a misogynist that hates the environment.

As I believe, Obama's time was during the summer.  He failed to capitalize on it by not focusing on all the issues.  What he did capitalize on, were sometimes missteps.  He blew his "change and reforming" status during the whole Wright debacle.  You win elections by making sure you monopolize the issues and hammer the opposition for doing a shitty job at it.  Clinton campaign knew this.  They hammered George H.W. Bush on the economy, which for 12 years was considered GOP territory.  Obama has hammered McCain on what exactly?  Almost everything Obama has done regarding McCain is a defensive measure. 

[Ganhyun]

Edit: wow my quoting sucks, lol.

The surge didn't work completely.  I would've still voted against it if I were in Congress.

So you would vote for the surge, but Obama still says he wouldnt, even with the knowledge he has now.


As far as the laws passed like the Patriot Act, well, they can be rewritten, thats what lawmakers are for.
I do agree that some parts are controversial in there.

And you seem to forget that a) Obama wasn't there for the Patriot Act

This just shows how inexperienced he really is. He has very little political experience currently.

and b) Obama voted against the Iraq War.

Then in doing so he voted against a U.N. Resolution.

This is pulled directly from the resolution in the U.N. on Iraq on the whole compliance with inspecters and WMDs and such:

13. Recalls, in that context, that the Council has repeatedly warned Iraq that it will face serious consequences as a result of its continued violations of its obligations;

The world told Iraq, unanimously, that if they didnt comply they would face military force. Then, when the U.S. actually goes to follow this charter, France (with billions invested in Iraq), Germany (not sure why they were against) and russia (sold weapons to Iraq) were against doing what the charter called for, since talking wasn't working.

Honestly, we should have just said, look, this resolution says that if they kept disobeying we'd make them do so, so we are doing so. So we didnt find any WMD, Saddam himself told a reporter he lied about having them and had made up look alikes carted around to make it look like he did have them to keep other countries off him.  Should we have known differently? Probably.

[TakingBackSunday]

This just shows how inexperienced he really is. He has very little political experience currently.

This is a bullshit response and you know it.  The same argument can be made towards Palin, but I'm not going to dignify myself to make such an argument.