Author Topic: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?  (Read 3780 times)

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MrAngryFace

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Everyone says going bankrupt is healthy, but then others say sure, its healthy in a healthy economy where money is flowing around. Did Paulson just fuck US Auto in the butt?
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Eric P

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Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2008, 01:26:13 PM »
i think us auto management fucked us auto in the butt.
Tonya

Human Snorenado

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Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2008, 01:27:53 PM »
In a word, no.  Right now, no they couldn't.  Chapter 11 would quickly lead to Chapter 7.

But what Paulson does or doesn't do won't matter.  Just take the 25 billion that has been set aside for retooling and modernizing and use that to keep them afloat until Obama takes Office in January with huge new majorities in both houses.
yar

Beardo

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Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2008, 01:29:17 PM »
The U.S. auto makers need to get their head out of their asses and stop making shitty cars. God damn, I grew up with American cars and now even my father bought a honda.

MrAngryFace

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Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2008, 01:30:01 PM »
I think the problem is that US Automakers isnt just the rich guys, its like thousands and thousands of workers.
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Eric P

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Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2008, 01:34:40 PM »
let's just nationalize them!

then we can force them to make whatever the capricious whims of the public dictate!

Tonya

MrAngryFace

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Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2008, 01:35:26 PM »
I wish for a CIRCUS OF CARS!
o_0

Beardo

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Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2008, 01:36:44 PM »
let's just nationalize them!

then we can force them to make whatever the capricious whims of the public dictate!



Yeah im sure east germany really loved driving these.




Debaser

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Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2008, 02:10:29 PM »
let's just nationalize them!

then we can force them to make whatever the capricious whims of the public dictate!




Brehvolution

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Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2008, 02:12:49 PM »
Fire the current management and re-organize. Re-negotiate contracts for debts. GM has enough of it's own money to keep it afloat until the inauguration.
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Bocsius

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Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2008, 02:18:32 PM »
Paulson really instills a lot of confidence, doesn't he?

"We don't need a bailout."
"Uh, we need a 700 billion dollar bailout for this."
"Uh, thanks for the 700 billion, but now I think I'll use it for that."
"Whatever you do, and I can't emphasize this enough, DO NOT bail out the auto makers."

Next week

"Uh, we need to use that 700 billion to bailout the auto makers."

MrAngryFace

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Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2008, 02:26:46 PM »
:teehee
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Smooth Groove

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Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2008, 02:32:55 PM »
I'm not a fan of US cars but I feel for my fellow Americans that make them.   :(

Apparently, Euro automakers are still rolling in the dough. 

Maserati just sent my dad an offer to test drive their car.  They're gonna give him a pair of $100 headphones just to come in for the test drive. 

Joe Molotov

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Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2008, 02:43:45 PM »
Maserati just sent my dad an offer to test drive their car.  They're gonna give him a pair of $100 headphones just to come in for the test drive. 

At the local GM dealership, they'll give you 50 shares of GM stock for buying a new car.  :-\
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MrAngryFace

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Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2008, 02:44:32 PM »
I bought america, new focus rules #1. Its my future car
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Bocsius

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Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2008, 02:46:35 PM »
At the local GM dealership, they'll give you 50 shares of GM stock for buying a new car.  :-\


Total Investment Value: $3.92

Smooth Groove

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Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2008, 02:52:21 PM »
My sister and uncle both have Ford SUVs.  So there are people in my family who not only support the US auto industry but also the US fuel industry. 

MrAngryFace

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Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2008, 02:56:12 PM »
I buy the highest grade gas these days cause its so cheap, relatively speaking ;)
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Human Snorenado

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Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2008, 02:57:47 PM »
I like the Ford Escape hybrid, it gets almost 30 mpg and it's an suv!  Crazy talk!
yar

Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2008, 05:14:54 PM »
public transit
Crm

TVC15

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Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2008, 05:19:50 PM »
Maserati just sent my dad an offer to test drive their car.  They're gonna give him a pair of $100 headphones just to come in for the test drive. 

At the local GM dealership, they'll give you 50 shares of GM stock for buying a new car.  :-\

Well, we all need toilet paper.

I understand the importance of keeping the industry alive in the US, but American cars have sucked for the better part of 20 years, so I almost see this as a punishment fitting the crime.  Well, even though it wasn't shitty American autos that totally sank the companies, but shitty running of the companies.

Anyway, bailing out banks is essential to keeping the economy floating.  Bailing out manufacturing sectors that have doomed themselves really isn't.  Also,  I read that bailing out the auto industry would be in violation of WTO rules, so I do not think it is on the table.

First link I found:

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/11/14/european-union-may-complain-to-wto-over-detroit-bailout/

The WTO isn't like the UN;  we'd probably actually care if we ended up on their bad side.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2008, 05:21:22 PM by TVC 15 »
serge

drozmight

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Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #21 on: November 18, 2008, 05:27:48 PM »
The death of the American mid-west continues...
rub

MrAngryFace

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Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #22 on: November 18, 2008, 05:32:00 PM »
public transit

Doesnt work for MOST people. America is too young a country and has too much sprawl
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MrAngryFace

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Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2008, 05:32:43 PM »
Maserati just sent my dad an offer to test drive their car.  They're gonna give him a pair of $100 headphones just to come in for the test drive. 

At the local GM dealership, they'll give you 50 shares of GM stock for buying a new car.  :-\

Well, we all need toilet paper.

I understand the importance of keeping the industry alive in the US, but American cars have sucked for the better part of 20 years, so I almost see this as a punishment fitting the crime.  Well, even though it wasn't shitty American autos that totally sank the companies, but shitty running of the companies.

Anyway, bailing out banks is essential to keeping the economy floating.  Bailing out manufacturing sectors that have doomed themselves really isn't.  Also,  I read that bailing out the auto industry would be in violation of WTO rules, so I do not think it is on the table.

First link I found:

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/11/14/european-union-may-complain-to-wto-over-detroit-bailout/

The WTO isn't like the UN;  we'd probably actually care if we ended up on their bad side.

I think the main issue is (or should be) keeping americans employed
o_0

TVC15

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Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2008, 05:34:09 PM »
Maserati just sent my dad an offer to test drive their car.  They're gonna give him a pair of $100 headphones just to come in for the test drive. 

At the local GM dealership, they'll give you 50 shares of GM stock for buying a new car.  :-\

Well, we all need toilet paper.

I understand the importance of keeping the industry alive in the US, but American cars have sucked for the better part of 20 years, so I almost see this as a punishment fitting the crime.  Well, even though it wasn't shitty American autos that totally sank the companies, but shitty running of the companies.

Anyway, bailing out banks is essential to keeping the economy floating.  Bailing out manufacturing sectors that have doomed themselves really isn't.  Also,  I read that bailing out the auto industry would be in violation of WTO rules, so I do not think it is on the table.

First link I found:

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/11/14/european-union-may-complain-to-wto-over-detroit-bailout/

The WTO isn't like the UN;  we'd probably actually care if we ended up on their bad side.

I think the main issue is (or should be) keeping americans employed

Oh, no doubt.  But the WTO will see it as us flooding money into keeping our subpar automobiles on the market.  Both sides have their point, but our country chose to suck the cock of our WTO masters.
serge

Eric P

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Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #25 on: November 18, 2008, 06:01:25 PM »
public transit

i use it and love it

unfortunately not all are as fortunate as i am
Tonya

Kestastrophe

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Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #26 on: November 18, 2008, 06:42:34 PM »
Very good analysis of the auto maker situation and how they got there
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122628230122212449.html?mod=relevancy

Not sure that I agree that not bailing out the auto industry is in the best interest of the economy.
jon

MrAngryFace

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Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #27 on: November 18, 2008, 06:46:30 PM »
The people saying GOTTA HURT TO HEAL seem to forget you know, the american jobs
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MrAngryFace

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Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #28 on: November 18, 2008, 06:47:16 PM »
Maserati just sent my dad an offer to test drive their car.  They're gonna give him a pair of $100 headphones just to come in for the test drive. 

At the local GM dealership, they'll give you 50 shares of GM stock for buying a new car.  :-\

Well, we all need toilet paper.

I understand the importance of keeping the industry alive in the US, but American cars have sucked for the better part of 20 years, so I almost see this as a punishment fitting the crime.  Well, even though it wasn't shitty American autos that totally sank the companies, but shitty running of the companies.

Anyway, bailing out banks is essential to keeping the economy floating.  Bailing out manufacturing sectors that have doomed themselves really isn't.  Also,  I read that bailing out the auto industry would be in violation of WTO rules, so I do not think it is on the table.

First link I found:

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/11/14/european-union-may-complain-to-wto-over-detroit-bailout/

The WTO isn't like the UN;  we'd probably actually care if we ended up on their bad side.

I think the main issue is (or should be) keeping americans employed

Oh, no doubt.  But the WTO will see it as us flooding money into keeping our subpar automobiles on the market.  Both sides have their point, but our country chose to suck the cock of our WTO masters.

Apparently Japanese auto makers are asking Great Britain for a loan to deal with the current economic climate so there ya go. That's according to a senator from michigan
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Kestastrophe

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Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #29 on: November 18, 2008, 06:49:07 PM »
That's according to a senator from michigan
no conflict of interest there :teehee
« Last Edit: November 18, 2008, 07:17:06 PM by Kestastrophe »
jon

MrAngryFace

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Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #30 on: November 18, 2008, 06:58:40 PM »
Yeah, people in the middle of a situation dont have a good understanding of a situation, but rather people from different states or countries do.
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Kestastrophe

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Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #31 on: November 18, 2008, 07:20:08 PM »
I just heard a jaw dropping number thrown around: $70 per labor hour for UAW workers. Jesus. What was I thinking when I wanted to get an education for a skilled job. My parents should have sent me down to the local UAW so I could attach part A to part B ad nauseum. Also, that is compared to $44 per labor hour for auto workers in the south (i.e where Japanese manufacturers have set up shop)
jon

siamesedreamer

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Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #32 on: November 18, 2008, 07:21:55 PM »
The only way they can survive is if they completely break from organized labor.

Draft

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Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #33 on: November 18, 2008, 07:25:24 PM »
UAW has put the big three in a position where they have to spend twice as much to build a car as the Japanese companies. No wonder they are all hemorrhaging money.

UAW needs to be restructured or simply eliminated. They can tighten their vice grip on American car manufacturers if they like, but the ultimate result is the death of that industry, as we're seeing right now.

Kestastrophe

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Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #34 on: November 18, 2008, 07:27:03 PM »
The only way they can survive is if they completely break from organized labor.
Not necessarily, although I think it would help. The ideal situation, in my opinion, would be for the government to only offer funding if labor contracts are at least decreased to levels that would allow the big 3 to be competetive on that front. Historically, the UAW has never been weaker and the big 3 are on the cusp of bankruptcy sometime in the next 4 quarters (conservatively) without government intervention.
jon

siamesedreamer

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Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #35 on: November 18, 2008, 07:28:25 PM »
Wait for Card Check. The UAW ain't going anywhere. They'll be even more powerful.

Rman

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Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #36 on: November 18, 2008, 09:24:42 PM »
I just heard a jaw dropping number thrown around: $70 per labor hour for UAW workers. Jesus. What was I thinking when I wanted to get an education for a skilled job. My parents should have sent me down to the local UAW so I could attach part A to part B ad nauseum. Also, that is compared to $44 per labor hour for auto workers in the south (i.e where Japanese manufacturers have set up shop)
The per hour labor costs also factors in pensions and medical benefits.  Auto workers' salaries are not what's bleeding these auto companies compared to the pension and health care benefits.

siamesedreamer

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Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #37 on: November 18, 2008, 10:13:09 PM »
It also includes money paid into a "jobs" bank for laid off unioners.

Kestastrophe

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Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #38 on: November 19, 2008, 07:11:52 AM »
It also includes money paid into a "jobs" bank for laid off unioners.
I saw another eye popping number last night: $105,000 is the average severance package for assembly line workers. Rman, I agree that legacy pension benefits and health care costs is a cost driver in the labour hour cost (specifically the old defined benefit pension plans). I actually have some distant family members that work assembly line jobs for GM/Ford and they make copious amounts of cash for what amounts to essentially "pushing a broom" in a warehouse. Its sickening what most of these people make for what they do, but it is just a drop in the bucket compared to enormous pension obligations. 
jon

patrickula

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Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #39 on: November 19, 2008, 10:59:32 AM »
American cars aren't all that shitty anymore and there are some very good ones coming down the line.  Chrysler is pretty much worthless these days however, and is owned by some shady defense contractors anyway.  They have some good brands but not much coming down the pipe that's any good.  They don't belong on the same tier any more.

GM and Ford sell many better cars in Europe and Australia than they do here.  The Euro Focus is way cooler than ours, and the Fiesta's taking too long of a time to come out here.  The Mondeo is well liked while we get the meh Fusion and "Taurus".  The new Opel Insignia just won European car of the year but it's not out here yet either.
GM can do good things.  The CTS-V and ZR-1, while tasteless, prove that American engineering can be segment leading.   The Volt has great potential but it's not out yet.  The new Camaro will be great but it's coming out at a terrible time...  Management needs a serious shakeup as too many cars come out in the US too little or too late.  There are too many models, there's too much redundancy, and too much lame badge engineering.

Paulson's desire to use the bailout only for his Wall Street pals and not for these companies sucks.  They're too important to the economy and for the country, whether they've sucked in the past or not.
I hope that at least GM survives, as they seem to have had the least terrible management (and they're the biggest too).  Ford of Europe makes good cars, but Ford in the US is kind of a joke.  Carving out some of the enormous bailout (that won't be used up before Obama takes office) to keep them afloat seems reasonable to me.

T234

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Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #40 on: November 19, 2008, 11:23:01 AM »
I'm not a fan of US cars but I feel for my fellow Americans that make them.   :(

Apparently, Euro automakers are still rolling in the dough. 

Maserati just sent my dad an offer to test drive their car.  They're gonna give him a pair of $100 headphones just to come in for the test drive. 

Which Maserati, if you don't mind me asking?
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Kestastrophe

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Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #41 on: November 19, 2008, 11:25:57 AM »
American cars aren't all that shitty anymore and there are some very good ones coming down the line. 
Not sure how true that is, but consumers certainly don't see it that way
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122706313908040047.html
Quote from: WSJ
Detroit's auto makers continue to lag behind Asian and European competitors in car resale value, an important consumer gauge.

Kelley Blue Book, a well-known vehicle appraiser, plans to announce Wednesday its annual ranking of the top 10 brands for projected resale value -- and not a single one will be American. Kelley, which ran its calculations before the big car makers began pushing for government financial help, defines resale value as the amount of a vehicle's sticker price that is retained after five years of ownership. The typical Chrysler car, for example, is expected to retain just 24.2% of its original cost. By comparison, the top-rated Honda brand's vehicles are expected on average to retain 44.5% of their value.

Also, I did get to watch a bit of the automakers testimony last night and I heard Ford's CEO mention that they have had success in Europe and they plan to bring alot of those smaller fuel economy vehicles over stateside. Good news, since that means consumer tastes are starting to converge towards cost savings instead of penis size.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2008, 11:27:55 AM by Kestastrophe »
jon

patrickula

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Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #42 on: November 19, 2008, 12:02:25 PM »
American cars have a huuuuge image problem.  That doesn't help.
Also, they often have so many incentives tacked onto the original sale (consumers of American cars have come to expect these kinds of deals) that they already started out quite a bit cheaper than the sticker price.
Also, American cars were a lot shittier in comparison to their rivals five years ago.  They're much more competitive now, though I wouldn't say they're where they should be in all ways... definitely not across the board.  It's still too much a case of standouts (the newer cars mostly) in the midst of mediocrity.  If they can get all their cars to the level of their good stuff then they'd be better off.  Beating the image problem (which is pretty justified by historic shittiness) will be difficult though.

I know more about the cars themselves then the business, so that's mostly where I'm coming from.  GM has some appealing vehicles coming down the line and so does Ford (from Europe mostly)... so I'd hate to seem them destroyed when I think they're on the brink of non-suckitude.  It's a tough market right now for almost anyone though.

MrAngryFace

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Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #43 on: November 19, 2008, 12:29:29 PM »
US Focus is a fine car this year. The whole boboobob europe is teh coolest argument holds less and less water each year.
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Olivia Wilde Homo

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Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #44 on: November 19, 2008, 12:45:43 PM »
I think they will survive.

The Democrats will see to it that they make it.  Losing potentially hundreds of thousands of jobs (from those industries alone; not to mention the economies that are based around them, which would probably put it over a million) would kill them, politically.  They're going to have to give these companies some low interest loans and bailouts so they can recover.  There will be some kind of committee with several of these auto executives, going over just why things all went to shit.  Right wingers will throw it all at the feet of the unions.

The US auto mfgs are going to have an uphill battle fighting against the image that they have now of shit quality and fuel inefficient vehicles.  They pretty much need to reboot entirely but without doing a dramatic change, jobs wise.  Not going to be easy and this isn't something that is going to be solved in less than a year.  The financial situation is a good way to change that image.  It can inspire consumer confidence in their vehicles if this government infused money now reinvigorates them, even if they've been trending towards reliable and fuel efficient vehicles for some time now.

So it could be one of the best things to happen to them.  It won't be easy though and it will be a tough sell.  All depends on how much the government wants to get involved.  People love big government now so the government is going to have to play a significant role in jumpstarting the industry.

IMO.
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MrAngryFace

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Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #45 on: November 19, 2008, 12:49:01 PM »
I just dont see how anyone can claim they work for the american people and let that many jobs go down because the rich old people go the people who will be getting fired into the mess in the first place. Im not saying I know the way to fix it, but I am saying that ISNT the way to handle it. There is NOTHING more real in our industry than manufacturing jobs. The idea that we would go poo poo to those people but would bail out larger institutions that make their money off of something far less substantial is troubling.
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Human Snorenado

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Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #46 on: November 19, 2008, 12:52:26 PM »
Mittens wants to let Detroit go bankrupt.

He makes some good points in the op-ed, but I really don't see how declaring Chapter 11 will help.  Already shaky consumer confidence in these brands would plummet further and with the credit situation being what it is they'd be in Chapter 7 before you know it.  A "modest" loan of 25 billion with lots of strings attached to get them over the hump until Obama can start cracking heads in January is the way to go IMO.

Under ordinary economic times I would largely agree with what Mittens wrote, to be honest.  These companies are stagnant at the top and their labor unions are unreasonable enough to rival the MLBPA at times.  But allowing any of them to go into Chapter 11 would be signing the death warrant for the company and would start a cascading shitstorm of economic woe that would probably REALLY start 2 Great 2 Depressing off for real.  Of course, with 62 days left of the most incompetent administration in the history of the Presidency, anything is possible!
yar

MrAngryFace

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Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #47 on: November 19, 2008, 12:53:47 PM »
Gambling with so many voters jobs. Argh. Obama is fast, but he isnt in office for a while yet!
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Kestastrophe

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Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #48 on: November 19, 2008, 12:57:49 PM »
Mittens wants to let Detroit go bankrupt.
I didn't even read it, but I know he's full of shit because when he was still up for the Rep presidential nomination he was campaigning in Michigan under that premise that he would revive manufacturing in America (this was around May or June).
jon

Mandark

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Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #49 on: November 19, 2008, 02:36:42 PM »
Jonathan Cohn on why the government should step in.

Jonathan Cohn on government-assisted bankruptcy.

He says that GM had been making some progress on labor costs and fuel-efficient vehicles the last couple years before the economy blew it out of the water, and that it should be allowed to complete its reforms.  Bankruptcy in the current financial climate could lead to liquidation and that would be a disaster.


The problem of legacy costs stems from American postwar capitalism.

A union job in a big industry would provide lifelong healthcare and a defined-benefit pension, things which other countries treat as a social good and provide through the government.

That worked fine when the Big Three had an oligopoly with almost no foreign competition and a relatively young workforce.  They could afford to share the wealth with the unions and locked themselves into long-term obligations which became untenable later.

While the UAW deserves a share of blame for clinging to unreasonable compensation levels, we should never have put corporations in charge of guaranteeing a lifetime safety net to its workers.  It's not a coincidence Japanese automakers are more efficient.  They have a publicly funded pension plan (that I believe is more generous than Social Security) and universal healthcare for senior citizens.


As usual, anything sd says can safely be ignored.

Brehvolution

  • Until at last, I threw down my enemy and smote his ruin upon the mountainside.
  • Senior Member
Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #50 on: November 19, 2008, 02:39:32 PM »
Is it such a surprise that the republicans are so quick to bail out banks but not industry???
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FlameOfCallandor

  • The Walking Dead
Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #51 on: November 19, 2008, 02:48:30 PM »
Is it such a surprise that the republicans are so quick to bail out banks but not industry???

Wasnt it Nancy Palosi that had her panties in a  bundle for the bank bailout. More republicans were against he bailout than dems.

MrAngryFace

  • I have the most sensible car on The Bore
  • Senior Member
Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #52 on: November 19, 2008, 02:49:32 PM »
I think at the time the banks were the initial reason for the bailout, so arguing for them meant arguing for the larger bailout.
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ferrarimanf355

  • I have the cutest car on The Bore
  • Senior Member
Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #53 on: November 19, 2008, 05:23:48 PM »
Everyone says going bankrupt is healthy, but then others say sure, its healthy in a healthy economy where money is flowing around. Did Paulson just fuck US Auto in the butt?

If GM can't get debtor financing in chapter 11, they'll go tits-up and probably take Chrysler and Ford with them. Too bad, the 2010 Mustang and 2010 Camaro look nice, I want GM and Ford to survive so I can buy one of 'em. Then again, even if they do survive, CAFE standards will probably doom muscle cars soon enough.  :'(
500

siamesedreamer

  • Senior Member
Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #54 on: November 19, 2008, 06:29:30 PM »
Yeah, you can go ahead and ignore me.

http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0510/17/A01-351179.htm

Good gig huh? All cuz Uhmerika ain't got no free healthcare.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2008, 06:31:35 PM by siamesedreamer »

gibletsngravy

  • Junior Member
Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #55 on: November 19, 2008, 06:53:43 PM »
LOL at the bullshit posturing from Congress. They know people are watching and they want to look good. Its more political calculation from these toolbags.
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MrAngryFace

  • I have the most sensible car on The Bore
  • Senior Member
Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #56 on: November 19, 2008, 07:31:47 PM »
"What about jobs?" -- "Well people lose jobs, but whats important is that volkswagon is opening up plants here with less healthcare and they remain competitive!"

sooooo fuck the companies giving americans job, and let it be a lesson to the companies that fail that good healthcare benefits are a bad way to do business.

Double Burn for americans

I will say I enjoyed the triple burn on the execs today when it was brought up that they each came on their own private jets to the hearing hahaha. This situation is so fucked.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2008, 07:35:16 PM by MrAngryFace »
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Brehvolution

  • Until at last, I threw down my enemy and smote his ruin upon the mountainside.
  • Senior Member
Re: Is it actually possible for US Automakers to survive after bankruptcy?
« Reply #57 on: November 19, 2008, 08:27:40 PM »
I had to laugh when the one congressman asked how many of the auto heads flew a commercial flight to DC. How do you fly to DC in your corporate jet and pull out your empty pockets claiming poverty. ::)
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