Google posts millions of LIFE photos, rest of work day ruined

[TVC15]

Please don't have this discussion, nobody is going to change their minds.  It is distinguished mentally-challenged.

[Eel O'Brian]

we weren't the only ones working on the a-bomb, we were just the first to get it out the door

germany, japan, and russia were all in varying stages of atomic weapons development

it was coming whether we dropped those two bombs or not

[Eel O'Brian]

i'm gonna have to buy a whole new hard drive just for this 

wonder why they won't just issue the entire collection of LIFE on DVD rom like the Playboy/MAD/National Lampoon/National Geographic collections?

[patrickula]

My 2 cents on the whole Japan thing:

spoiler (click to show/hide)

The US wanted to make Japan surrender before the Soviets were able to invade/occupy the country.  I don't pretend to know how a standard invasion would have gone, but the firebombing preceding the nukes wrought even more devastation overall (aside from the radiation).  Let possible war criminal MacNamara explain it:
The Japanese barely had time to respond after the first nuke was dropped to surrender to the second.  There were three days between the bombings.  It took six more days after Nagasaki until they surrendered.  I guess they should  have nuked 'em a third time since they took so long!

There seems to be the impression here that the US was saved from occupying a Japan full of civilians trained to kill American soldiers... well, Japan was occupied anyway.  There was less resistance and loss of US lives certainly, but was it worth it proportionately?  You should at least be able to question the decision to drop the second bomb.

[close]

[Bloodwake]

Eh, fuck it. I'm frustrated with this argument.

Final word from me:

I understand the argument for the use of nukes and I understand why they were used. Americans were tired of the war and so was the world, so they wanted to end it quickly and without loss of life.

That doesn't change the fact that the introduction of nuclear weapons through their usage has negatively effected the world as we know it. If nukes were never used, we wouldn't be worried about the next small country that develops a nuke that is pissed at the United States.

Because their justification for using the nuke is going to be the same as Truman's justification. It's quick, convenient, takes out a lot of people from a distance rather than going in close and risking the lives of their military against hostile military and civilians alike.

[Bloodwake]

Please don't have this discussion, nobody is going to change their minds.  It is distinguished mentally-challenged.

I'm changing my mind. To this quote.

[Phoenix Dark]

Uh, it was extremely dangerous to send any troops into Japan because the bastards where forcing to teach the civilians how to kill, so there were no more civilians, just all enemies over there. Rather than kill so many men, just drop the bomb on a country with barely any civilians left (I don't consider anyone a civilian once they've been told to kill anyone on sight).

Japan wasn't listening ot their "civilians" anyways. The ones who wanted it all to stop just kept getting told to kill, kill, kill.  The only ones responsible for the nuke is the japs themselves.

Let me put it this way.

There's a country very similar to 1940's Japan. One where possibly everyone in the country knows how to pick up and fire a gun. If this country was invaded, the civilians would be able to fight oncoming military men with handguns, rifles, shotguns, etc. In some areas of this country, men that aren't in the military are sometimes trained to use actual weapons and shoot living things from childhood.

I just gave any country on the face of the planet justification to nuke the shit out of America if they were pissed at us.. And frankly, it's our fault. We popularized the weapon in the 40's, developed it, and now everyone wants one to wipe out their enemies quickly and efficiently. There was a cold war which was basically the US and Russia pointing a shitload of nukes at each other and refusing to push the trigger.

Every military power in the world was either destroyed or allied with the United States against Japan. It didn't matter if five year olds were shooting at troops. We were going to win regardless.

At what cost? That's what you refuse to acknowledge because it destroys your argument. The atomic bomb saved more lives than it took.

[TVC15]

That doesn't change the fact that the introduction of nuclear weapons through their usage has negatively effected the world as we know it. If nukes were never used, we wouldn't be worried about the next small country that develops a nuke that is pissed at the United States.

Why are you ignoring that they were coming anyway?  The Manhattan Project started because Einstein warned the US.

[MyNameIsMethodis]

My 2 cents on the whole Japan thing:

spoiler (click to show/hide)

The US wanted to make Japan surrender before the Soviets were able to invade/occupy the country.  I don't pretend to know how a standard invasion would have gone, but the firebombing preceding the nukes wrought even more devastation overall (aside from the radiation).  Let possible war criminal MacNamara explain it:
The Japanese barely had time to respond after the first nuke was dropped to surrender to the second.  There were three days between the bombings.  It took six more days after Nagasaki until they surrendered.  I guess they should  have nuked 'em a third time since they took so long!

There seems to be the impression here that the US was saved from occupying a Japan full of civilians trained to kill American soldiers... well, Japan was occupied anyway.  There was less resistance and loss of US lives certainly, but was it worth it proportionately?  You should at least be able to question the decision to drop the second bomb.

[close]

They didn't have anymore bombs after the second one, not for a few months, but Japan didn't know that, so they had to surrender or else they knew they were in for genocide (which would've happened anyways if we invaded, because the civilians where armed and we'd have to kill them.)

[Eel O'Brian]

civilians were killed in the attack on pearl harbor, too

guess they don't matter, though

monkeypiss yourself

[ManaByte]

There are no winners in war. I won't go into this discussion.

But the US only suffered minor cilivian losses MINOR. The retaliation was ruthless and out of proportion.

So I'm guessing if the Manhattan Project was never started and Hitler got the bomb first and nuked New York it would be OK since it was evil America?

[Eel O'Brian]

i don't know how well-armed the civilians actually were, but the russian army would have killed scores of them armed or not

and as we saw and is documented okinawa, the civilian had been trained to fear rape and torture in the event of an american invasion, and would commit mass suicide rather than submit to invading americans

there are no innocents in war, to be sure, but i doubt the intention of revenge influenced the decision to drop those two bombs

i have no sympathy for imperial japan during those years, though

had they not committed the heinous acts around the world leading to their eventual defeat (the least of which being the attack on pearl harbor, if you do your research), there never would have been a reason to make such a terrible decision

they reaped what they sowed

[Eel O'Brian]

There are no winners in war. I won't go into this discussion.

But the US only suffered minor cilivian losses MINOR. The retaliation was ruthless and out of proportion.

how many civilians were killed, tortured, raped, mutilated in nanking

would you say that was ruthless and out of proportion, considering there was no reason whatsoever for it

[TVC15]

There are no winners in war. I won't go into this discussion.

But the US only suffered minor cilivian losses MINOR. The retaliation was ruthless and out of proportion.

how many civilians were killed, tortured, raped, mutilated in nanking

Depends whose textbooks you read   Nanking is something that Japan "whitewashes" to this day.

[Eel O'Brian]

okay, i'm getting mental images of that "arguing on the internet" jpeg, so i'm gonna steer this back to LIFE

there used to be a guy who lived here at the apartment complex, named cosmo maffetore

he was old but still had full wavy hair and fists like hams, was a new york fireman after the war

he saw the famous flag raising at iwo jima (twice  from far away), and suicides at okinawa

he gave me this laminated card when he moved out:

[Howard Alan Treesong]

Jesus, I go to lunch and you guys shit up this thread with A-bomb discussion? Learn to make a new thread you fuckups

[patrickula]

[Brehvolution]

Hiroshima survivor stories.

*shudders*

[Eel O'Brian]

boo hoo, now you know how i feel when people drag their fucking politics into unrelated topics

[MyNameIsMethodis]

Hiroshima survivor stories.

*shudders*

I'm sure there's pearl harbor stories just as worse.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

POST HERE MORANS

[patrickula]

Here's something:

[Howard Alan Treesong]

[Rman]

Not from LIFE, but a great photo nonetheless.

[Himu]

Most of these covers being posted are fucking hilarious

[littlemathletics]

(Image removed from quote.)

I would have thought there'd be more than one, but there you go.

[Himu]

(Image removed from quote.)

I would have thought there'd be more than one, but there you go.

There's only one homosexual in america.

And his name is Keith.

[littlemathletics]

He must be lonely.  :'(

[Himu]

Who do you think he has sex with? cheeseburgers?

[littlemathletics]

He doesn't have sex. He just sits around and listens to The Smiths and dreams and sighs.

[Great Rumbler]

New York City, 1939

[MyNameIsMethodis]

What was the point of skyscrapers back then?

[Great Rumbler]

What was the point of skyscrapers back then?