Author Topic: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!  (Read 5516 times)

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Human Snorenado

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2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« on: November 19, 2008, 04:04:08 PM »
Haven't found that floor yet!
yar

Phoenix Dark

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2008, 04:06:14 PM »
The Obama Recession continues!

010

Beardo

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2008, 04:13:39 PM »
I thought that bailout was supposed to save us...

Eric P

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2008, 04:28:23 PM »
i just looked out the window

no on is leaping from their buildings yet
Tonya

Joe Molotov

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2008, 04:39:11 PM »
Good job, Obama.
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Bloodwake

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2008, 04:44:38 PM »
Jesus Christ, fucking Republicans scare me.

Obama isn't even fucking DOING ANYTHING YET, how is it the Obama Recession?

PS: I know people are joking, but still it pisses me off.
HLR

Oblivion

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2008, 04:47:54 PM »
I thought that bailout was supposed to save us...

Blame the non-socialist republicans that approved it.

Brehvolution

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2008, 04:54:49 PM »
The fundamentals of the economy are strong my friends.
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Rman

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2008, 04:59:10 PM »
Guys, we are talking about a recovery that may take a couple of years.  No use speculating about the effects of the bailout now. 

Kestastrophe

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2008, 05:05:53 PM »
^This is true. Also for perspective, the effects of fed rate decisions typically take 9 months to be felt.

I knew the crisis was going to be bad, but I never would have thought that we would see this much volatility and that the stock market would hit this low. I don't think that anyone really knows what value is and the market is moving on confidence/fear.
jon

Don Flamenco

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2008, 05:27:42 PM »
GOOD FUCKING JOB OBAMA WAY TO GO
Quote
I thought that bailout was supposed to save us...

how does i understand economics

Fresh Prince

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2008, 05:38:58 PM »
I thought that bailout was supposed to save us...
Iit was supposed to just delay the inevitable not actually 'save' us
888

siamesedreamer

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2008, 06:26:12 PM »
6700 will be the bottom...

Van Cruncheon

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2008, 06:31:06 PM »
6500-6700, 12% unemployment is the bottom. called it here. we won't see the signs of an uptick until end of FY09. three years recovery. obama in 2012.
duc

siamesedreamer

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2008, 06:51:31 PM »
Unemployment won't get that high. Probably more around 9-9.5%.

The economic recovery will be extremely slow and there's a good chance it may be L-shaped in nature. Plus, we're due for a long period of stagnant DOW valuation:



The run that peaked last October dates back almost 26 years.

drew

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2008, 07:26:59 PM »
Jesus Christ, fucking Republicans scare me.

Obama isn't even fucking DOING ANYTHING YET, how is it the Obama Recession?

PS: I know people are joking, but still it pisses me off.

keep spinnin demofag

bububububububububu

MrAngryFace

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2008, 07:34:30 PM »
Yeah Chris Matthews brought up to some distinguished mentally-challenged fellow that if the car companies go 11 the stocks will take a crazy hit and the guys like 'well we havent hit bottom yet'.

Im glad to see all of this is a real concern for elected officials
o_0

demi

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2008, 01:55:35 AM »
You should worry about your own dirty poor country first, Borys
fat

Human Snorenado

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2008, 07:57:48 AM »
yar

TVC15

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2008, 09:11:45 AM »
What a fucking cunt.  Of all the times to pull this shit.

I guess the good news is that even if he vetoes it now, it will just pass fine in a few months once Obama is in.  Most (if not all) people that would be going on unemployment over the past two months (when jobs have been slashed) will still be covered by unemployment by the time Obama gets in office, too.
serge

siamesedreamer

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2008, 06:05:29 PM »
S&P 500 -52% since last October...

Kestastrophe

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2008, 06:19:55 PM »
Well, other than the now typical stock shitfest today there were several bombs dropped today.

1.) Unemployment claims hit a 16 year high

2.) Inflation decreased by the largest one month amount EVER, by a whopping 1% (12% annualized).  :'( What do you think credit defaults are going to be if we have deflation  :o
jon

Fragamemnon

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2008, 06:28:16 PM »
I can see 12% unemployment if they let the automakers completely collapse. I think it'll be 8.5% or so around 1Q next year, then things start to level off. Whether they actually get better as the recession subsides is dependent on how much stimulus we pump into the economy and where we pump it-if we just cut taxes and give rebates it'll stay low, if we fund states and infrastructure things will bounce back sooner.

People shouldn't be too worried about Citibank, they are jerkfaces but otherwise they will make it through this whole thing just fine.
hex

Fragamemnon

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2008, 06:31:52 PM »
btw, the car companies can't really go into chapter 11 at this point. There's no lenders out there in this environment that are going to fork out the loans for debtor in poession financing given that it will take years for chapter 11 to untangle and even then they might not make it out. It's either government intervention or the midwest will face great depression era unemployment.
hex

Kestastrophe

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2008, 06:35:06 PM »
I don't know, there was an article in the WSJ today about how foreign manufacturers are having an increasing presence in the U.S. I could see some of them buying liquidated assets on the cheap and then employing non-union employees. Nomura, the japanese bank, is actually doing this right now
jon

Fragamemnon

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #25 on: November 20, 2008, 06:37:46 PM »
I don't know, there was an article in the WSJ today about how foreign manufacturers are having an increasing presence in the U.S. I could see some of them buying liquidated assets on the cheap and then employing non-union employees.

otherwise known as chapter 7 bankruptcy , where the assets go into liquidation and the company pretty much defaults on everything. There's no silver lining to that, and Japanese automakers won't ramp up auto production in the near term when the US economy is going off a cliff.
hex

TVC15

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #26 on: November 20, 2008, 06:49:14 PM »
btw, the car companies can't really go into chapter 11 at this point. There's no lenders out there in this environment that are going to fork out the loans for debtor in poession financing given that it will take years for chapter 11 to untangle and even then they might not make it out. It's either government intervention or the midwest will face great depression era unemployment.

If we bail out the auto companies, the government had better be able to draw hard rules, like no more outsourcing of jobs for a set number of years.  Last night, Michael Moore (I know, I know) said that GM is currently building a 300 million dollar factory in Russia to outsource jobs to.  If that's the sort of shit bailout money will go to, fuck 'em.
serge

AdmiralViscen

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #27 on: November 20, 2008, 06:51:34 PM »
Pretty sure the Russian auto plant is to serve the Russian market, which has been growing at a rapid pace and which GM has been riding the wave of.

edit: Yes, the plant will build the Chevy Captiva (Euro only), Opel Antara (Euro only,) and Chevy Cruze (Europe only until a year later when production begins in the US)

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2008/11/07/224691.html



I don't know, there was an article in the WSJ today about how foreign manufacturers are having an increasing presence in the U.S. I could see some of them buying liquidated assets on the cheap and then employing non-union employees. Nomura, the japanese bank, is actually doing this right now

Even with the imports increasing presence here they still employ something like
10% of the number of people employed by the big 3.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2008, 06:53:41 PM by AdmiralViscen »

TVC15

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #28 on: November 20, 2008, 06:55:21 PM »
Pretty sure the Russian auto plant is to serve the Russian market, which has been growing at a rapid pace and which GM has been riding the wave of.

edit: Yes, the plant will build the Chevy Captiva (Euro only), Opel Antara (Euro only,) and Chevy Cruze (Europe only until a year later when production begins in the US)

Alright, disregard that part.  I'd still say fuck them if they plan on continuing to send jobs overseas post-bailout, though.  Any company that takes bailout money should be the governments bitch in some regard.
serge

AdmiralViscen

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #29 on: November 20, 2008, 06:57:45 PM »
GM doesn't import a lot of carsfrom overseas. They do make some in Canada and Mexico, but those still use 95% American-produced parts. The only overseas imports I can think of at GM are the Chevy Aveo, Saturn Astra and the Pontiac G8.

y2kev

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #30 on: November 20, 2008, 06:59:53 PM »
I've made my peace with outsourcing because fighting for something you don't have comparative advantage in is something that only is going to produce massive losses eventually anyway, but the big problem is that the gubmint has not provided any incentive for new industries in which WE have the comparative advantage to spring up.

This country doesn't MAKE anything in which it has an advantage anymore, wtf. We make things we suck at making and we make money off money. Well the second thing went to hell and now we're seeing the first explode in our faces.

I understand this is a fairly lolbertopian way of looking at things-- which kind of makes me feel dirty-- and it's very simplified, but overall I really see an opportunity for this country in "green" industries...that's going to be what pulls us out of this. It sure isn't going to be us relying on our endemic manufacturing that's for sure.

something else I found was interesting is that it turns out only like 12% of the nation's workforce is unionized now?
« Last Edit: November 20, 2008, 07:02:50 PM by y2kev »
haw

ToxicAdam

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #31 on: November 20, 2008, 07:53:50 PM »
The Catholic Church is eating this economic recession up. Finally, a problem that can drive people back to churches.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601085&sid=aGSJzqaJm_b0&refer=europe

Fragamemnon

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #32 on: November 20, 2008, 08:50:47 PM »
now we are asking autocratic petrol states for aid:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20081120/bs_afp/financeeconomyusgulf_081120072928;_ylt=As8HYF6PR0TsbvJOoU6Ff0es0NUE

Quote
KUWAIT CITY (AFP) – The United States has asked four oil-rich Gulf states for close to 300 billion dollars to help it curb the global financial meltdown, Kuwait's daily Al-Seyassah reported Thursday.

Quoting "highly informed" sources, the daily said Washington has asked Saudi Arabia for 120 billion dollars, the United Arab Emirates for 70 billion dollars, Qatar for 60 billion dollars and was seeking 40 billion dollars from Kuwait.

Al-Seyassah said Washington sought the amount as "financial aid" to face the fallout of the financial crisis and help prevent its economy from sliding into a painful recession.

The daily said the United States plans to use the funds to help the ailing automobile industry , banks and other companies suffering from the global financial turmoil.

The four nations, all members of OPEC, produce together 14 million barrels of oil per day, around half of the cartel's production and about 17 percent of world supplies.

The four states are estimated to have amassed close to 1.5 trillion dollars in surplus in the past six years due to high oil prices that rocketed above 147 dollars in July before sliding to just above 50 dollars.

The daily also said that the United States has asked Kuwait to forgive its Iraqi debt estimated at around 16 billion dollars.

Can we go ahead and kill the rich people yet?
hex

HyperZoneWasAwesome

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #33 on: November 20, 2008, 09:11:30 PM »
I really see an opportunity for this country in "green" industries...that's going to be what pulls us out of this. It sure isn't going to be us relying on our endemic manufacturing that's for sure.
I too have some big hope for the enviornmental solutions industry, one that's been waiting for decades to take off.  The biggest problem though is that nearly all the companies that are already good at green tech, green power, aren't American companies.

Another thing you can blame Regan for was he killed off any subsidies towards developing cleaner technology (Carter put solar panels on the roof of the white house, Regan threw them away).  Now the countries that have been developing solar and wind and everything else are in Europe and Japan.  By the sheer force of our (now rapidly dwindling) market we can create some big opportunities here in America for green industries, but there's no way we can lead the world, and there's no way that it can happen at all soon enough to soften the current crises.  Its gonna take years before we've got our shit together enough to make a substantial difference in America's economy.

That's not to say we shouldn't do it, we should be going after green industry at full speed.  But we've lost many valuable years not building the foundations for it and I fear our first serious attempts at bringing this country into a more sustainable era are going to fall flat just because we're going to be making up lots of expensive policy as we go along.

Human Snorenado

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #34 on: November 20, 2008, 09:20:39 PM »
Can we go ahead and kill the rich people yet?

I've been building a guillotine for weeks!  Almost done and ready to proceed to the testing phase, somebody round up some hedge fund managers for me.
yar

Brehvolution

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #35 on: November 20, 2008, 09:45:48 PM »
Those who haven't seen it should watch this.

It's long, but you'll puke.

It's like we are in the times when the fake money has to be repaid. All that money lost on Wall street goes to someone else. It doesn't' vanish. Or does it at a cheaper price?
« Last Edit: November 20, 2008, 09:48:51 PM by Zero Hero »
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Fragamemnon

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #36 on: November 20, 2008, 09:59:19 PM »
Those who haven't seen it should watch this.

That video is like totally

hex

Fresh Prince

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #37 on: November 20, 2008, 10:09:49 PM »
I'm no economist (but when has that been indicated good objective thought lately) but yeah this is going a depression.
888

DJ_Tet

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #38 on: November 20, 2008, 10:14:52 PM »
fuck this country and planet.  Let's go to mars or some shit.

lol what did this planet ever do besides give us everything?

Fuck countries and corporations.
TIT

Cheebs

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #39 on: November 20, 2008, 10:23:07 PM »
I'm no economist (but when has that been indicated good objective thought lately) but yeah this is going a depression.
No it won't. It's a recession. A really really really bad recession. But this is no depression. We won't be lining up in the streets for pieces of bread.

Fresh Prince

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #40 on: November 20, 2008, 10:26:16 PM »
I don't know anything about the economy. I am acting like Joe the Plumber and am just saying that Obama is a communist and this is going to be a depression.
888

Van Cruncheon

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #41 on: November 20, 2008, 10:28:18 PM »
it's not a depression -- in fact, we're experiencing deflation, and the dollar remains (relatively) strong. it will simply be the worst recession on the record.
duc

Fragamemnon

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #42 on: November 20, 2008, 10:46:00 PM »
it's not a depression -- in fact, we're experiencing deflation, and the dollar remains (relatively) strong. it will simply be the worst recession on the record.

There is still crushing demand for our treasury securities. Now's the time to auction a ton of money and go into massive infrastructure build mode IMO.
hex

Van Cruncheon

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #43 on: November 20, 2008, 11:06:31 PM »
the faint upside is that this whole recession is a giant burn on the ron paul set
duc

Bocsius

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #44 on: November 20, 2008, 11:16:58 PM »
At least gasoline is back in the realm of being reasonably affordable, so it costs less money to go pick up unemployment benefits and food stamps. Win!

Brehvolution

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #45 on: November 20, 2008, 11:23:48 PM »
Those who haven't seen it should watch this.

That video is like totally

(Image removed from quote.)(Image removed from quote.)(Image removed from quote.)

I completely respect you input Frag as I admit that you know more about the situation. Is this the tinfoil hat way of things or is the money created greater than the actual money that exists to the US banks?
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Human Snorenado

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #46 on: November 20, 2008, 11:26:14 PM »
the faint upside is that this whole recession is a giant burn on the ron paul set

He looked so lost earlier this week when Congress was grilling Paulson and Bernanke.  He literally used his entire 5 minutes to rail at Bernanke about the Gold Standard, and Bernanke probably had to physically restrain himself from laughing at "Dr." Paul.
yar

Brehvolution

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #47 on: November 20, 2008, 11:28:34 PM »
At least gasoline is back in the realm of being reasonably affordable, so it costs less money to go pick up unemployment benefits and food stamps. Win!

If you read the paper today, its as if the cost relative to the value of goods = deflation? Huge profits aren't being made because of what the people are willing to pay for something = deflation? After mass inflation, a sudden drop in price equals a bad thing? i"m getting conflicting reports here. :maf
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Fragamemnon

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #48 on: November 20, 2008, 11:30:29 PM »
At least gasoline is back in the realm of being reasonably affordable, so it costs less money to go pick up unemployment benefits and food stamps. Win!

Falling gas prices are definitely a form of economic stimulus. Given the other economic conditions its not going to spur on a new boom in SUVs so the downsides to higher gas prices aren't really there at all. IS NICE.

Quote
the faint upside is that this whole recession is a giant burn on the ron paul set

really need to just throw their ideology onto the ashpile of history.

Quote
Is this the tinfoil hat way of things or is the money created greater than the actual money that exists to the US banks?

It's tinfoil essentially, right from the federal reserve hatin' gold standard folk.
hex

y2kev

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #49 on: November 20, 2008, 11:30:38 PM »
We're in a secular recession. It's been trending this way for 9 years now. SUZE ORMAN (my hero) predicts we should enter secular bull market in 2015 :hyper
haw

Fragamemnon

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #50 on: November 20, 2008, 11:35:26 PM »
If you read the paper today, its as if the cost relative to the value of goods = deflation? Huge profits aren't being made because of what the people are willing to pay for something = deflation? After mass inflation, a sudden drop in price equals a bad thing? i"m getting conflicting reports here. :maf

Deflation also can manifest itself through lower aggregate wages and economic activity for goods and services-as total demand goes off the cliff, so must prices in order for businesses to continue to engage in the activity of selling goods and services. We have been seeing monumental asset deflation for quite some time  (years in the housing market, commodities and equities are now in the pooper too), so it's not too surprising that CPI-calculated goods and services are also experiencing some deflation as well.
hex

Brehvolution

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #51 on: November 20, 2008, 11:38:16 PM »
That's fine. Things were over valued IMO anyways.

It takes thousands of people making $8/hr so a few can make millions a year. It's not sustainable. We are seeing it in person today.
©ZH

Joe Molotov

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #52 on: November 20, 2008, 11:45:46 PM »
:bow $1.59 gas :bow2
©@©™

Brehvolution

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #53 on: November 20, 2008, 11:48:48 PM »
If you read the paper today, its as if the cost relative to the value of goods = deflation? Huge profits aren't being made because of what the people are willing to pay for something = deflation? After mass inflation, a sudden drop in price equals a bad thing? i"m getting conflicting reports here. :maf

Deflation also can manifest itself through lower aggregate wages and economic activity for goods and services-as total demand goes off the cliff, so must prices in order for businesses to continue to engage in the activity of selling goods and services. We have been seeing monumental asset deflation for quite some time  (years in the housing market, commodities and equities are now in the pooper too), so it's not too surprising that CPI-calculated goods and services are also experiencing some deflation as well.


Over valuing = greater commission. The people involved, realtors and banks, had everything to gain and nothing to lose. Banks still own the property if there is a foreclosure. Initial payments to banks by loan applicants ,98% interest for years, became overwhelming when banks jacked the rate when the variable hit to make people have to pay a ton more interest.

A lot of people payed more in RENT to these banks than they were lead to believe. Now the banks are crying poor because the "rent" stopped. smh
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Fresh Prince

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #54 on: November 20, 2008, 11:50:45 PM »
It will take a few years but demand from China and India is going to come back with a vengeance.
888

Mandark

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #55 on: November 21, 2008, 12:03:34 AM »
The Wall Street Journal just told me what the real cause of the economic crisis is:

spoiler (click to show/hide)


Thanks a lot, Rupert Murdoch!

Olivia Wilde Homo

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #56 on: November 21, 2008, 12:05:01 AM »
With the way a few of you are acting, its like the Dow is down to 1000.

🍆🍆

Van Cruncheon

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #57 on: November 21, 2008, 12:06:42 AM »
that article can NOT be for real. did someone give pd a job at the wsj?
duc

y2kev

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #58 on: November 21, 2008, 12:08:46 AM »
We still haven't seen a really high volume sell off like we should before a "real" depression. That's kind of striking-- lots of volatility but relatively small volume. We need like a big ole 3000 pt crash before we're truly fucked.
haw

Mandark

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Re: 2 Great 2 Depressing watch: Dow closes lower than 8,000!
« Reply #59 on: November 21, 2008, 12:16:07 AM »
that article can NOT be for real. did someone give pd a job at the wsj?

Look at the biographical blurb on the side of the page.  He's been nominated for a Pulitzer!  Twice!