Way to go Shittybank!

[Fragamemnon]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/23/feds-consider-plan-to-res_n_145856.html

Citigroup Bailout: Feds Offer Massive Rescue Package To Financial Giant

The government unveiled a bold plan Sunday to rescue troubled Citigroup, including taking a $20 billion stake in the firm as well as guaranteeing hundreds of billions of dollars in risky assets.

...

The $20 billion hot beef injection by the Treasury Department will come from the $700 billion financial bailout package. The capital infusion follows an earlier one _ of $25 billion _ in Citigroup in which the government received an ownership stake.

As part of the plan, Treasury and the FDIC will guarantee against the "possibility of unusually large losses" on up to $306 billion of risky loans and securities backed by commercial and residential mortgages.

Under the loss-sharing arrangement, Citigroup Inc. will assume the first $29 billion in losses on the risky pool of assets. Beyond that amount, the government would absorb 90 percent of the remaining losses, and Citigroup 10 percent. Money from the $700 billion bailout and funds from the FDIC would cover the government's portion of potential losses. The Federal Reserve would finance the remaining assets with a loan to Citigroup.

Every billion dollars that the taxpayer has to eat should result in the government killing off one of each executive's next of kin. This financial crisis would end a lot sooner if we adopted the NKVD Commisar model of inspiration-if one executive gets a bullet in the brain, the rest will stop lying and start working to get their shit in order.

[MrAngryFace]

money for them from the govt comes quick, i bet the bosses there have private jets too.

[Van Cruncheon]

their ceo got a fat 72M check earlier this year

[MrAngryFace]

awesome, he shouldnt have to explain anything to the govt tho. We should make the people who employee large chunks of blue collar workers explain

[Fresh Prince]

I hate going on a populist tangent but how come everybody else has to be adept at their jobs or face unemployment while CEO's still get rewarded for doing a bad job?

[Van Cruncheon]

because they are american heroes who got their jobs through being exceptional americans

[MrAngryFace]

theyre making the money that trickles down into their bonuses

[Fragamemnon]

You know, recent material public statements regarding the solvency and health of citibank clearly were designed, in retrospect, to mislead markets.

The SEC and FBI need to be perp walking folks and airing their prison rape on the CCTV in the stock exchanges. Sick of companies going all Baghdad Bob saying everything is fine and then melting down the very next weekend.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

I hate going on a populist tangent but how come everybody else has to be adept at their jobs or face unemployment while CEO's still get rewarded for doing a bad job?

Through 30 years of conditioning that these executives are geniuses and therefore, should be given a free pass for everything they do because they're smarter than you.  The free market is just a black box: they understand it, we don't.  So therefore, we should just do whatever they want and if it fails, it was because the industry was overregulated.

[MrAngryFace]

Yeah they were sayin shit was fine last week and it was all the fault of chicken littles in the media

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

Its all about the NYSE.  Can't say anything too truthful because then stockholders will begin shitting their pants.  Even though they really are in trouble.  It seems a lot of people love to be lied to.

[Fresh Prince]

Too bad in 10/20 years time we'll all go through a variation of this shit again. The public doesn't seem to get it's moneys worth.

[MrAngryFace]

What I dont get is like, people KNOW retail reports are gonna be bad. So why cant they mentally own up to it before its announced instead of acting like they never knew and pull out like crazy people

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

People knew the recession was going to happen for a long time now but that didn't stop people from making stupid and shitty decisions.  Probably the same mentality applies here.  When you see the iceberg, go faster, it appears.

[Van Cruncheon]

next up: ge capital, legendary for its accounting shenanigans

[Fragamemnon]

they should have fucked the bondholders (gov't first in line if this boat goes tits up) and shareholders (convertible shares resulting in dilution) in the ass, my main problem with TARP in general is that the people who own their stock and corporate debt are basically getting a nearly free ride on the back of the taxpayer.

[Loki]

their ceo got a fat 72M check earlier this year

Clearly, his sky-high talent level warranted it.  Any other opinion is communism.

[Loki]

You know, recent material public statements regarding the solvency and health of citibank clearly were designed, in retrospect, to mislead markets.

The SEC and FBI need to be perp walking folks and airing their prison rape on the CCTV in the stock exchanges. Sick of companies going all Baghdad Bob saying everything is fine and then melting down the very next weekend.

@ the bolded

Definitely agree, btw.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

So why have there not been any rioting, mass protesting, or any kind of populist action taken against these businesses?

Have people become that spineless?

[The Fake Shemp]

Because your average American does not understand economics and basically had to be told with cartoons and flow charts how this disaster even began.

[Brehvolution]

Fake money is fake.
Banks don't go out of business, they just threaten to do it.

Take all you want mighty banks. You own it all anyway.

[Kestastrophe]

their ceo got a fat 72M check earlier this year

I do not understand this. It is painfully obvious that there is conflict of interest between the board members of many companies and their executives. There is no quantifiable way to justify spending 72M on a single executive. There has to be some kind of reform in executive pay to come out of this mess

[duckman2000]

You know, in many other modern systems and societies, the payrate rift we are seeing here between incompetent "noblemen" and proles (everyone else, really) would be enough to spark a serious uprising. Here? Let's blame the lawmakers and the gov'ment, those executives can't be blamed for living the American dream! I saw this GM worker on TV the other day, he went on a rant about the current situation. Did he blame the executives, or perhaps the actions taken by the company in the past (for example, buying up the competition to the point of the industry strangling itself due to lack of natural, competitive progress)? Of course not, why blame a real entity that you could feasibly affect (and that could certainly affect you, the whipped worker), when you can safely let the blame fall on something well out of your geographical reach.

America, the nation of a lot of whining and very little action.

In other news, I don't think I'll be paying any more of my credit card bills. I call it my bail-out plan.

[Bocsius]

I left Citigroup last November for a new job.

Me

[Kestastrophe]

^awesome. I want your bailout plan too

[Tauntaun]

We need to purge the upper echelon of society. 

[Kestastrophe]

I just read an article in today's WSJ on the steps that GM is taking to reduce costs. Pretty fucking distinguished mentally-challenged. They are cutting the tiniest of overhead costs, such as pencils, clocks, and other office supplies. They are even going so far as to changing the brand of paper towel that they use and breaking it down to "costs per wipe", as well as changing out mechanical pencils for old school Ticonderoga's. The article painted a less than flattering view of management, citing the private jet quote from last week and the comment that Wagoner would not accept a pay cut to $1 annually. Despite being in dire financial shape, it seems that GM just does not get it. If there is some kind of capitalization of GM I would hope that the terms include replacing management. 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122748968154052045.html

[Bocsius]

^GM also cut the Tiger Woods endorsement.

Which means he'll be promoting foreign cars when he plays his next tournament, most likely. It's doubtful  Ford or Chrysler can sign a deal with him.

[laesperanzapaz]

man i wish i was a CEO

i could fuck up all i want while pocketing millions, i would preach about 'hard work' and 'responsbility' while slamming my pro-regulatory critics as communists

America, the libertarian dream? No.  America, the new aristocracy....same as the old aristocracy of centuries past.

[Fragamemnon]

yeah it's not the libertarian dream, its the anarcho-capitalist nightmare.

and tauntaun, . Flamethrowers on rich people would make a superb pay per view cable/satellite entertainment offering.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

yeah it's not the libertarian dream, its the anarcho-capitalist nightmare.

and tauntaun, . Flamethrowers on rich people would make a superb pay per view cable/satellite entertainment offering.

pay-per-view? that's capitalism I can believe in

[Cormacaroni]

yeah it's not the libertarian dream, its the anarcho-capitalist nightmare.

and tauntaun, . Flamethrowers on rich people would make a superb pay per view cable/satellite entertainment offering.

Not sure i get the logic of making it PPV!

Anyway, I don't get the market. Last week, I was reading about what a nightmare scenario it would be if the US govt. had to bail out Citibank. This week, the bailout happens, and everyone is YAY! Worst am now over!

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

Now that the Bailout might get up to $7.76 trillion, we should do at least one of these things:

1) Exhume Ronald Reagan's corpse, give it a public hanging, and then drag it in a tour across most major US cities.  Citizens can piss on it for a small fee.  A loudspeaker will play his quotes about the magic of the marketplace.  Since it will be around Christmas now, it can be billed as a fun family event!

2) Chinese Cultural Revolution-like purging of the rich.  Put large signs around their neck, make them denounce their crimes in front of the public and on all media formats, and apologize for living.  This would not include just corrupt executives but those like Neil Cavuto and Bill O'Reilly that made it dangerous to suggest anything other than a total opening of the markets is linked to terrorism.

3) Begin firebombing the houses of executives.  Their house will be spared if they fork over their ill gotten earnings within an appropriate time frame.

[Fragamemnon]

pay per view is to get around indecency laws. we could give the proceeds to help feed the families of millions of new lucky new American railroad builders who left their white collar jobs and churches when we found their names on Republican donor lists.

[Beardo]

Guys, its too big to fail. Remember what you guys said during the earlier bailout?

3) Begin firebombing the houses of executives.  Their house will be spared if they fork over their ill gotten earnings within an appropriate time frame.

You're welcome to try this. Tell me how it goes for you.

[Van Cruncheon]

what EXACTLY did *we* say you dullard

quit projecting your hair-pulling markos moulitsina psychosexual fantasies onto us

[Beardo]

what EXACTLY did *we* say you dullard

quit projecting your hair-pulling markos moulitsina psychosexual fantasies onto us

Weren't you arguing for the original bailout?

[Bocsius]

Freaking Republicans.

My employer is switching to health savings accounts next year. 

If I hadn't left Citigroup, I would at least have real coverage. My old area hasn't been laid off.

Yet.

[Beardo]

Why are people saying this is a republican issue. congress votes for these things remember? Who controls congress? Oh yeah...

[Bocsius]

2003. The law was signed in 2003.

[Beardo]

2003. The law was signed in 2003.

They signed the citibank bailout in 2003? Sheeeeet I want what they were smoking.

[Bocsius]

We obviously aren't on the same brainwave here. But I'm off topic, so I'll take the blame.

[Beardo]

We obviously aren't on the same brainwave here. But I'm off topic, so I'll take the blame.

It's cool dude. I was just joshin ya. 

[Van Cruncheon]

what EXACTLY did *we* say you dullard

quit projecting your hair-pulling markos moulitsina psychosexual fantasies onto us

Weren't you arguing for the original bailout?

so why would i think citigroup is "too big to fail"? do you want your ass reddened in THIS thread, too, or are you just having a tough day?

[Beardo]

so why would i think citigroup as "too big to fail"? do you want your ass reddened in THIS thread, too, or are you just having a tough day?

So were you or were you not for the original bailout? If you were for it tell me how this is different.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

bonus points for not being condescending, but thats probably impossible for you.

[close]

[Van Cruncheon]

i'm for both bailouts, dipshit. i can be *for* something and not like it, and also see it as totally embarrassing and hypocritical for the us government as well. i don't like to spank my kid, either, but when she's been a total brat, it's an option to start the corrective process.

nuanced opinions, motherfucker; do you grok them?

oh, go back to powerline

[Van Cruncheon]

i'll stop the condescension when you stop being either illiterate or disingenuous. or some marriage of the two, best described as "internet stupid".

[Beardo]

So you are for the citibank bailout, but you dont agree with it?

[max_cool]

So you are for the citibank bailout, but you dont agree with it?

Could be worse. I'm for the war but against the troops! 

[Van Cruncheon]

that's not my stance

try again

[Beardo]

that's not my stance

try again

Please tell me. I cant understand your criptic message.

i can be *for* something and not like it

So you are for the bailout you just dont like it. I guess I'm all for prostate exams, I just dont like them 

[Van Cruncheon]

got it in three!

i support the bailout inasmuch as a) there was a clear need for decisiveness in the marketplace; b) it was the least of the proposed evils; c) it increases government involvement in capitalist enterprise and begins the much-needed regulatory process. is it ideal, or even a good solution? hardly; and only time will tell, although i'm not optimistic (although it beats a circumstantial repeal of the capital gains tax by a crazy margin). does any of this add up to anything other than a dubious and heavily-qualified quasi-endorsement at best? i'd rather they be allowed to fail and put all of their asshole execs in the gutter if it wouldn't take the entire country's economic infrastructure down with them. i actually value individual americans and their livelihoods over JUSTICE LOL, and it's not an easy compromise to consider -- hence, the hope for the success of the bailout AND the desire to see every crooked ceo turned out into the street.

on the other hand, i'm not burdened with the pseudointellectual posturing of friedman-esque free market dogma, so maybe i should be thankful that my position is difficult

[AdmiralViscen]

money for them from the govt comes quick, i bet the bosses there have private jets too.

Seriously.

awesome, he shouldnt have to explain anything to the govt tho. We should make the people who employee large chunks of blue collar workers explain

Seriously again.

And it's not okay to get involved with a company that deals with product no one wants, unless that product is billions of dollars in bad debt instead of a few remaining models that haven't been warmed over yet.

Never mind the fact that the current leadership of the big 3 came in to deal with a shitty situation and just couldn't, while the current leadership in most of these banks came in to handle mega profits and then fucked it up.

Bill Ford hasn't even been taking a salary for the last like 5 years. But he hires the fixer-upper who was at Boeing and pays him well, for like a year and a half, and now they are the bad guys.

[Loki]

got it in three!

i support the bailout inasmuch as a) there was a clear need for decisiveness in the marketplace; b) it was the least of the proposed evils; c) it increases government involvement in capitalist enterprise and begins the much-needed regulatory process. is it ideal, or even a good solution? hardly; and only time will tell, although i'm not optimistic (although it beats a circumstantial repeal of the capital gains tax by a crazy margin). does any of this add up to anything other than a dubious and heavily-qualified quasi-endorsement at best? i'd rather they be allowed to fail and put all of their asshole execs in the gutter if it wouldn't take the entire country's economic infrastructure down with them. i actually value individual americans and their livelihoods over JUSTICE LOL, and it's not an easy compromise to consider -- hence, the hope for the success of the bailout AND the desire to see every crooked ceo turned out into the street.

on the other hand, i'm not burdened with the pseudointellectual posturing of friedman-esque free market dogma, so maybe i should be thankful that my position is difficult

 

[recursivelyenumerable]

I'm not exactly knowledgeable about this stuff, but I just find it hard to believe there's no alternative option available beyond "let it all go down in flames" and "massive handouts to the financial elite requiring only nominal figleaf concessions in return".

[Loki]

I'm not exactly knowledgeable about this stuff, but I just find it hard to believe there's no alternative option available beyond "let it all go down in flames" and "massive handouts to the financial elite requiring only nominal figleaf concessions in return".

There are likely other options, but few politically viable ones.  It's my opinion that the lack of regulatory teeth on the bailout bill will be its undoing (and ours).  We've already seen some abuses.

[recursivelyenumerable]

well, if it comes down to it, I'm not sure that "let it all go down in flames" is actually a worse option if the other one ends up being "massive handouts etc., followed by it all going down in flames anyway X months later, to even worse effect thanks to the waste of resources on said massive handouts"

[MrAngryFace]

money for them from the govt comes quick, i bet the bosses there have private jets too.

Seriously.

awesome, he shouldnt have to explain anything to the govt tho. We should make the people who employee large chunks of blue collar workers explain

Seriously again.

And it's not okay to get involved with a company that deals with product no one wants, unless that product is billions of dollars in bad debt instead of a few remaining models that haven't been warmed over yet.

Never mind the fact that the current leadership of the big 3 came in to deal with a shitty situation and just couldn't, while the current leadership in most of these banks came in to handle mega profits and then fucked it up.

Bill Ford hasn't even been taking a salary for the last like 5 years. But he hires the fixer-upper who was at Boeing and pays him well, for like a year and a half, and now they are the bad guys.

Man, the google guy on Maddow was kinda scary- why are so many people happy with dumping people who work blue collar jobs. "Oh well thats not where growth is now so fuck it".

[Loki]

well, if it comes down to it, I'm not sure that "let it all go down in flames" is actually a worse option if the other one ends up being "massive handouts etc., followed by it all going down in flames anyway X months later, to even worse effect thanks to the waste of resources on said massive handouts"

That seems to be the dilemma we're in w/respect to the auto makers, but in my estimation the gov't honestly believed (believes?) that they could "save" the financial sector by way of the various bailout packages.  We'll really know how it went by the Summer, I'd wager.  There's also the chance that we've all been hoodwinked, and that history will look back at these events as the largest bank heist in history.  I must say that I don't like the fact that Paulson was CEO of the nation's largest investment bank a mere two years prior to his Treasury appointment, making hundreds of millions of dollars off of the same practices which caused this crisis -- practices which he now pretends to decry.

I'm a pessimist by nature, so take it with a grain of salt, but I have to say that things don't look good in the short-medium term (1-5 years) for this country.  And when I say "not good," I mean "really, really bad."

[Beardo]

Beardo got schooled damn.

Yeah, I got schooled.