NPD

[HyperZoneWasAwesome]

Does anyone know KZ2's dev budget?

4 years + of development with a 50-100 person team.

Oh, lets say, a shitload of a fuckton of cash.

[Bebpo]

Does anyone know KZ2's dev budget?

I know the developers are happy with the sales so far and Sony is as well.  I think they both didn't have high expectations based on PS3 software sales to date.  But I don't know the actual budget.  I'm sure it was huge.

[duckman2000]

I'm not buying it being hard to market at all. Even if some aspects of the game were somehow difficult to market, none of the blatant strengths were exploited smartly well in advertisements. Which I suppose is reasonable, as there was nearly no advertising anyway. Compare it against high profile releases from Microsoft, and it looks even worse. I don't think it's the only reason for its relatively minor impact, but a better campaign wouldn't have hurt it.

I agree with the characters bit, though. Gears succeeded in giving you iconic antagonists and protagonists, whereas KZ has always been focused on the antagonist. But this is nothing that would have been apparent for prospective buyers; at worst, it would have been a COD situation, so I don't think that hurt in terms of sales potential. I'd say that the focus in advertising should have been on the environments, but then those environments aren't exactly inviting. So maybe I'm disagreeing with the first paragraph here, slightly.

[Bebpo]

Does anyone know KZ2's dev budget?

100 Million+

I don't think any game has gone that high.  In fact I'm not sure if any game has gone over 50 million yet since the Shenmue fiasco.  I was under the impression most HUGE budget HD games are still about 20-30 million budget.  Link?

[Rman]

He's just making it up, Bebpo.

[duckman2000]

Last number I saw was around or above 20 million, who knows how correct that was though. Quite a bit, I'd say.

Seriously if I was a company that said to the developers "give me a demo!" and then I had random test groups play the demo and they said "this sucks, I'm not buying the game now" I would just not release the demo.  I think releasing a bad demo KILLS your sales this generation.  OTOH releasing a good demo like Lost Planet back at the start really boosts sales.

I haven't found many good demos as of late. The World at War demo made me shy away from the game, the same with RE5 (although it turns out that was the wrong decision). Red Faction Guerrilla, on the other hand, totally sold me on that game.

[T234]

Shenmue 2 was even more expensive than Shenmue 1 was. Like around $110 million or so.

[duckman2000]

Moving away from KZ2... was it ever clarified why Ensemble was shut down?

[duckman2000]

He's just making it up, Bebpo.

The last number thrown out(that I recall) was 40 million and that was back in 2007. It wouldn't be too crazy to think that by now it's 100 million or around it.

Remember, this game has been in development for ages.

Uh, if the budget was 40 million, then that's probably the final cost too. Unless it went very, very far over budget.

[Bebpo]

Last number I saw was around or above 20 million, who knows how correct that was though. Quite a bit, I'd say.

Seriously if I was a company that said to the developers "give me a demo!" and then I had random test groups play the demo and they said "this sucks, I'm not buying the game now" I would just not release the demo.  I think releasing a bad demo KILLS your sales this generation.  OTOH releasing a good demo like Lost Planet back at the start really boosts sales.

I haven't found many good demos as of late. The World at War demo made me shy away from the game, the same with RE5 (although it turns out that was the wrong decision). Red Faction Guerrilla, on the other hand, totally sold me on that game.

Red Faction demo sold me on the game for the first 5 mins because of the awesome destruction.  Then I died and had to start all the way from the beginning after a 1 min load screen and it unsold me on the game.  It seemed really easy to die (I died multiple times playing the demo) and the load time SUCKED restarting after each death + there didn't seem to be checkpoints so I had to redo a bunch each time.  That kind of makes me not want to buy it/play it.

[duckman2000]

Check point system is a bit weird, but it was pretty easy to avoid dying. It's not a very good shooter, but a pretty incredible tactical experience.

[Philip Cardgage]

Anyways, who gives a shit. Let's overhype the next Sony exclusive.

[duckman2000]

distinguished black fellow, you don't know. I bet it looked like shit in 2007.

If a budget is set to a certain amount in 2005, then that's the projected or allowed cost even if the game releases in 2018. Going $60 million above budget in 4 years would have probably caused Sony to simply can them, and they would have known about this long before it ever reached that point.

Apparently, the budget was over 20 million, based on the comparison to Black Book.

[pilonv1]

Moving away from KZ2... was it ever clarified why Ensemble was shut down?

Looks like MS is moving towards a "here's our IP, get someone else to make it" model. Plus they seemed to have completely jumped out of PC development, which is bizaree since stuff like Flight Sim, Zoo Tycoon and AOE are good consistent sellers.

Anyways, who gives a shit. Let's overhype the next Sony exclusive.

HEAVY RAIN  

UNNANOUNCED TAKE 2 GTA KILLER THATS BEEN IN DEVELOPMENT HELL FOR YEARS

[Bebpo]

Wait, you died in the Red Faction demo? Did you just stand in the open and get shot?

I ran at guys who had guns with a hammer and they shot me dead in a few seconds.    I also tried taking cover when surrounded and they grenaded me to death. 

[Sideshow Raheem]

I can't help but think Killzone 2 would have sold better if only Bruceleeroy had made his official thread with 12 posts instead of 11.

[demi]

GTA Chinatown wars - 88,704

[archie4208]

GTA Chinatown wars - 88,704

Some random guy with a Mario avatar told me it did 200k.  What gives?

[demi]

I dunno I got it from this article

http://www.businessinsider.com/take-twos-grand-theft-auto-chinatown-wars-bombs-2009-4

[EmCeeGrammar]

MadWorld ~70k
The bright side is it opened higher than No More Heroes.
But NMH is at 200k ltd after a price cut to $30.
hmmmmm

edit: I'd like some Hotd overkill followup numbers. But I doubt I'll get anything more informative than a wii top ten.

[demi]

MadWorld is done for. Nobody will buy that piece of shit now that the better and cheaper NMH is out there. It's not like the games are any different. Why settle for less for more?

[Howard Alan Treesong]

MadWorld ~70k
The bright side is it opened higher than No More Heroes.
But NMH is at 200k ltd after a price cut to $30.
hmmmmm

Also, NMH's budget was a ham sandwich and a copy of Juggs magazine.  Mad World was probably a little more expensive to put together.

thanks for the reminder

TO DO LIST
- Ask Suda51 to return my March 2005 issue of Juggs

[EmCeeGrammar]

MadWorld is done for. Nobody will buy that piece of shit now that the better and cheaper NMH is out there. It's not like the games are any different. Why settle for less for more?

Of course they're different, Madworld is fun. No More Heroes and its fans think a shitty game is brilliant satire about shitty games.  Can we stop pretending? Will we ever? 

[Great Rumbler]

GTA Chinatown wars - 88,704

And yet GTAIV sells over 10 million units? No wonder this industry is in such a sorry state.

[demi]

MadWorld is done for. Nobody will buy that piece of shit now that the better and cheaper NMH is out there. It's not like the games are any different. Why settle for less for more?

Of course they're different, Madworld is fun. No More Heroes and its fans think a shitty game is brilliant satire about shitty games.  Can we stop pretending? Will we ever? 

And what does MadWorld stand on, with it's shitty satire about shitty movies

[demi]

Your pretend love for this shitty game could be the cause of your mental problems. Think about it

[Bildi]

UNNANOUNCED TAKE 2 GTA KILLER THATS BEEN IN DEVELOPMENT HELL FOR YEARS

Is this in addition to the secret PS3 game?  If so, that's TWO unannounced secret PS3 games in the works.

[Cindi Mayweather]

GTA Chinatown wars - 88,704

  wow

[EmCeeGrammar]

Your pretend love for this shitty game could be the cause of your mental problems. Think about it

Yes subbing one form of escapism for inferior ones will solve everything. 

[demi]

I'm tired and my brain's not working. What am I supposed to laugh at here.

KZ2 bombing

Willco being owned

MadWorld bombing

GTA DS bombing

RE5 hitting a million-ish in a month on X360

The blood runs green

[EmCeeGrammar]

I'm tired and my brain's not working. What am I supposed to laugh at here.

Nothing.  Post a few : roll for all the excuses for KZ2.

[Philip Cardgage]

So is Guerilla finished?

[Purple Filth]

So is Guerilla finished?

I doubt it plus they have dlc to do.

Killzone did decent but if you compare it to the distinguished mentally-challenged expectations of fans and trolls alike it did horribly.

Madworld and ChinaTown Wars bombing just adds to the usual nfan tears thats so funny to observe.

Ps3 needs a price drop

[AdmiralViscen]

Dude, compare it to Bioshock/Dead Rising/Lost Planet and it did horribly. All those games came out outside the peak months, unlike Gears, which KZ2 should have been on the same level with.

[WrikaWrek]

Killzone is a critical success.

It will be brave from Sony to give them as big of a budget for the next game, but who knows. Uncharted 2 looks like it has a bigger budget than Uncharted 1, so props to Sony to just keep betting hard on quality.

That's the one thing i love about Sony.

[Bocsius]

~600K is pretty respectable figure for Killzone 2, I'd say. Might be nothing more than fodder to fight over for system warriors, though.

As usual, Nintendo did excellent, Microsoft's in decent shape, Sony lags behind. Wake me when there's something new.

[duckman2000]

I don't think Guerrilla (or any other Sony developer) is going to be off on some 20-30 million dollar development adventure any time soon, but I don't see the sense in questioning its future when its most recent game has been critically well received and sold over a million copies since release.

[WrikaWrek]

~600K is pretty respectable figure for Killzone 2, I'd say. Might be nothing more than fodder to fight over for system warriors, though.

As usual, Nintendo did excellent, Microsoft's in decent shape, Sony lags behind. Wake me when there's something new.

The thing about it is that, i bet KZ2 on the 360, if it was released a year ago, in March for the 360, it would have hit the million mark.

360 consumers > PS3 consumers

[AdmiralViscen]

Yea

It's respectable for a PS3 game, that's fair to say. But it's still a disappointment fo sho compared to the overall market

Someone was posting that last year, PSP games and Army of Two were beating it down. Come on

[Kestastrophe]

damn, ps3 kz2 bombed hard, even compared to conservative estimates. poor duckman 

[Philip Cardgage]

I don't see how "impressive for a PS3 game" is even remotely close to positive spin.

I'm starting to question who exactly owns the PS3. Its marketed to the type of audience that would eat this shit up normally.

[duckman2000]

I don't see how "impressive for a PS3 game" is even remotely close to positive spin.

I'm starting to question who exactly owns the PS3. Its marketed to the type of audience that would eat this shit up normally.

Blu-Ray people, and PS2 fans who still have some weird notion of the PS3 as a proper successor to the PS2. That's my guess.

damn, ps3 kz2 bombed hard, even compared to conservative estimates. poor duckman 

Doesn't concern me, other than making my earlier estimates look downright comical. Although I hope that Sony figures out this marketing thing, because there are some developers tied to the machine that deserve to have some hits.

[pilonv1]

Too early to call GTA DS a flop. DS sales aren't front loaded like most console games, if anything they tend to operate on a flat curve.

[pilonv1]

Sony lie watch continues via 1up

Looking through this perspective, the sales for Killzone 2 seem much more positive, but there was still reason to expect higher numbers. Before the game was released, it was widely reported that European pre-orders for the game had reached 1.1 million. Oddly, tonight Sony announced (via Kotaku) that the game has sold over one million copies worldwide. It's a great milestone for the game and most publishers are happy to reach the million mark, but considering the pre-order numbers something seems off.
We know that about 600,000 of those million sales came from the U.S., so the remaining 400,000 in Europe isn't even half the pre-orders reported for that territory. It's possible that the early reports were mistaken, and instead referring to worldwide pre-orders. But that would mean that the game sold almost no copies that weren't pre-ordered. Alternately, those who chose not to pick up their pre-order copies could have been offset by regular purchasers. Still, maintaining a near-exact number seems strange.

[WrikaWrek]

1up is run by a bunch of distinguished mentally-challenged fellows.

Retail pre orders. You know, not consumer pre orders. Sheeesh

[pilonv1]

shhh, it spoils the story

[Mrbob]

Did people even buy Killzone 1?

I don't remember anyone interested in it.  Don't know why Killzone 2 was so hyped for high sales.  A sequel to a game nobody played.  At least it looks like Killzone 2 sold ok.  Maybe I'll pick it up someday, but not until I can find it for 30 bucks or less. 

Killzone 3, that is the real killer app.  PS4 FTW.

[Bildi]

This part of the story seems credible:

But that would mean that the game sold almost no copies that weren't pre-ordered.

Word of mouth travels pretty fast.

[Sho Nuff]

Shenmue 2 was even more expensive than Shenmue 1 was. Like around $110 million or so.

No way. Mue 2 had almost all of the engineering from the first one; production got way cheaper. You ALWAYS make money on the sequel.

Well, maybe not if the original game cost insaneo amounts of cash, but at least, that's the plan.

edit: Dammit Chinatown Wars deserved way more than that.

[Purple Filth]

Did people even buy Killzone 1?

I don't remember anyone interested in it.  Don't know why Killzone 2 was so hyped for high sales.  A sequel to a game nobody played.  At least it looks like Killzone 2 sold ok.  Maybe I'll pick it up someday, but not until I can find it for 30 bucks or less. 

Killzone 3, that is the real killer app.  PS4 FTW.

if i remember correctly Killzone 1 did ok in US but most of its sales came from EU.

[maxy]

Hmm,playstation family is not doing very well,new PSP needed to keep it afloat.

As for Killzone 2 bomba,not surprised...bu bu bu 2 days my ass
It would be decent for some non hyped,non money invested third party title,maybe people just didn't like the game.
Baseball game sold more,heh

And this was 5 week NPD...

[Mrbob]

I wonder if those Chinatown Wars sales will keep Rockstar from making a Wii GTA game.

Looking the manual, there are a TON of credits.  This was a high production title for the DS, and a high budget.  Under 100K in sales won't cut it. 

[pilonv1]

I do wonder what they'd get from an XBLA/PSN/iPhone port of Chinatown Wars...

[Purple Filth]

I do wonder what they'd get from an XBLA/PSN/iPhone port of Chinatown Wars...

you should say that in the NPD thead for the reactions  (if you havent already)

[pilonv1]

someone did mention they'd do 500k+ on xbox 360. Not sure if it would be that big but surely some sort of port to another platform (oh look one has a touch screen) would be a good idea.

[demi]

I would buy chinatown wars on XBLA

[EmCeeGrammar]

I do wonder what they'd get from an XBLA/PSN/iPhone port of Chinatown Wars...

you should say that in the NPD thead for the reactions  (if you havent already)

Already posted about 5 times.  But I'd imagine Take2 execs realise now the common sense that, in america, the ds audience is primarily children. 
DD would be perfect for recouping costs I agree

.I'm not going to proclaim it would fare better on Wii.  We only have Re4 numbers to conjecture with and that was a $30 dollar game.

[Oblivion]

well, in killzone's 2 defense, it's sold about 620K in a month or so on the market.

well, in killzone 2's offense, doing marginally better than RE5, a multiplatform game, is pretty disappointing considering it was Sony's most marketable, and biggest first party title of the 2009.



Oh, and Shenmue's budget was around like $70 million, and GTA4's was supposedly over 100 million.

[pilonv1]

I do wonder what they'd get from an XBLA/PSN/iPhone port of Chinatown Wars...

you should say that in the NPD thead for the reactions  (if you havent already)

Already posted about 5 times.  But I'd imagine Take2 execs realise now the common sense that, in america, the ds audience is primarily children. 

It's primarily children, and the next segment would be 25+ who use it for brain training etc..., so more non-game buyers.

An iphone version would be massive.

[Philip Cardgage]

At this point, I don't see Uncharted 2 selling well. The original still isn't all that popular outside of the hardcore market and its not an easy game to market. God of War 3 might be Sony's first million in a month seller, but at this point, I'm not sure.