Author Topic: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress  (Read 4318 times)

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Bebpo

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I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« on: April 24, 2009, 05:52:04 AM »
I like wrpgs, but I've never really been blown away by any.  I haven't played many though.  For every 20-30 jrpgs I'll sit down and play 1 wrpg.  I loved Mass Effect, hated Oblivion, liked Kotor.  I get lost in wrpgs that are HUGE like Planescape where you walk outside and the map is GIGANTIC with tons of people who all have tons of branching dialogues and most have their own little quests and stuff, it's like arggghhh where do I start!?  So I tend to stick to more straight-foward, talk to people, explore a little, kill stuff, level up, advance the story, kind of progress.

I'm in the mood to sit down for a week and give a good 30+ hours to play through an wrpg this weekend.  It'd be nice to play something that really impresses me and makes me want to increase my ratio of wrpg playing to jrpg playing.

Here's a list of wrpgs I'm willing to give a try at some point.  I'm including Diablo-ish games, but I wasn't "that" big on the original Diablo which I did play a good amount, but after 4-10 hours of click click click I got bored of the original Diablo and its clones like Lodoss & Shining Force Neo and never finished a single one and I prefer games I will actually complete and see their endings.

-The Witcher Enhanced Edition
-Jade Empire
-Knights of the Old Republic II
-Neverwinter Nights 2 + expansion(s)
-Fallout 3 X360 or PC w/mods if there are any good ones
-Oblivion PC with mods that make it different than that incredibly dull game called Oblivion I played on the X360
-Vampire the Masquerade
-Gothic 3
-Mount & Blade (is this even an rpg?  It looked more like an rts/strategy game where you slice people)
-Drakensang
-Hinterland
-Spellforce 2
-Fable 2 (I never played Fable 1 if that matters)
-Sacred II
-Titan's Quest w/expansion
-Diablo II w/expansion
-Stalker w/expansion (sorta an rpg with all the dialogue and inventory and non-linearness)

I left out most of the older pre-rendered sprites generation because I'd rather play something not horribly ugly.  The pre-pre-rendered stuff with actual pixels looks fine but I'd rather play something more recent.  At the end of the day I do love me some pretty graphics, but gameplay & story come first.

demi

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2009, 05:59:25 AM »
Fallout 3, dur
fat

Bebpo

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2009, 06:02:28 AM »
Fallout 3, dur

Did you do the 1000 thing with that?

demi

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2009, 06:02:55 AM »
yes
fat

Bebpo

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2009, 06:04:24 AM »
Was it fun?  Like Last Remnant sort of good times?

demi

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2009, 06:04:41 AM »
Yes
fat

Bebpo

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2009, 06:09:31 AM »
Cool.  Does the full game give that Bioshock vibe that the trailers gave?

demi

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2009, 06:21:36 AM »
Dunno, didnt watch any trailers. Just get it. PC version has achievements zomg
fat

dark1x

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2009, 08:47:42 AM »
Fallout 3 is great, though your distaste for Oblivion may have an effect here as it is similar in many ways.  I still think it's MUCH better overall.

Anyone care to comment on The Witcher?  I saw a copy of the Enhanced Edition for $15 and was considering giving it a shot.

Positive Touch

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2009, 09:01:17 AM »
add another vote for fallout 3.  game is huge and consistently amazing.  i would recommend bumping up the difficulty because you level up pretty fast otherwise and because combat is awesome and super-intense when you're pretty weak, but i'm not sure how tough you like your games.  i don't have the pc version so i don't know what mods are out there, but you should find one that lets you kill children. 
pcp

WrikaWrek

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2009, 09:10:38 AM »
I think you'll like the Witcher.

Try NWN2 and its expansion Mask of the Betrayer, too.

These are the ones i fully recommend.

Worthy mention: Vampire the Masquerade, but you are gonna need to install a bunch of custom patches and stuff.

dark1x

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2009, 09:13:05 AM »
Quote
Vampire the Masquerade
The Bloodlines game was incredibly good, I thought (a Deus Ex-like experience).  Well worth playing.

Redemption, on the other hand, wasn't all that good (or, at least, I was disappointed with its initial release - perhaps the patches do improve it significantly).

WrikaWrek

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2009, 09:14:03 AM »
Fallout 3 is great, though your distaste for Oblivion may have an effect here as it is similar in many ways.  I still think it's MUCH better overall.

Anyone care to comment on The Witcher?  I saw a copy of the Enhanced Edition for $15 and was considering giving it a shot.

Buy it.

Awesome presentation, awesome performance, and the game really grows on you. At first it's a bit too dirty, too "European dark" take on something like Blade. But it grows on you, and it really becomes awesome, and by the end you will be wanting to see a sequel.

demi

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2009, 09:28:37 AM »
Fallout 3 is great, though your distaste for Oblivion may have an effect here as it is similar in many ways.  I still think it's MUCH better overall.

Anyone care to comment on The Witcher?  I saw a copy of the Enhanced Edition for $15 and was considering giving it a shot.

No, Oblivion is trash. Fallout 3 is leagues better its ridiculous
fat

pilonv1

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2009, 09:39:20 AM »
fallout is the best fucking game in years
itm

tiesto

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2009, 10:01:39 AM »
Don't even waste your time with Jade Empire... although it's extremely straightforward and linear compared to the average American RPG, it's still boring as fuck and the combat is slow, shallow and repetitive.

Like others said, go with Fallout 3, it was one of the best WRPGs I have ever played, though towards the end it gets pretty dull (I have 1100 on it 8) ). I've heard very good things about the Witcher (:bow Poland :bow2) but haven't actually gotten a chance to play it.

I'm actually gonna play Fable 2 myself once I beat some of the SO4 postgame content... the first Fable was extremely linear, short and easy.. but the combat system was still more entertaining than anything Bioware has done recently.
^_^

WrikaWrek

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2009, 10:14:42 AM »
Skip Fable 2.

And don't buy Fallout 3 Bebpo, what a shitty game.

Eric P

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2009, 11:17:04 AM »
i like the witcher, in digestible chunks.  i'll play a few hours of it and get kind of frustrated or bored with it, then give it some time off then come back and find myself enjoying it just as much as i did when i first started playing it.

Tonya

Eel O'Brian

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2009, 11:29:09 AM »
yeah, get fallout 3 for pc, there are a metric ton of cool tweaks and plug-ins out there already
sup

pilonv1

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2009, 12:03:53 PM »
Quote
loved the music/atmosphere of the game, i hear butcher pete has a long knife....

hackin and
whacking
and slashing

choppinthatmeat.

BUTCHER PETE. easily my favourite song

next dlc with level cap increase is so close
itm

Bebpo

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2009, 01:24:47 PM »
Well, I guess I will try Fallout 3 and see how that goes.  My problem with Oblivion was the empty open world, the dull NPCs, the really really shallow combat, the dungeons that were all caves and looked identical and boring, and a not very gripping main story.

yeah, get fallout 3 for pc, there are a metric ton of cool tweaks and plug-ins out there already

What are some good mods to use on a first time run?  I looked and there are like thousands of little ones already, so it's kind of hard to tell what's worth it.

WrikaWrek

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2009, 01:36:23 PM »
*Shakes head*

dark1x

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2009, 01:38:09 PM »
I really don't know if Bebpo will enjoy Fallout 3.  It absolutely features the same type of gameplay progression present in Oblivion.  It does everything much better, but it is not an entirely different game.  Some of the gripes Bebpo has with Oblivion also apply to Fallout 3.

Still worth giving a shot.  If you play the PC version, make sure you have a powerful rig and perform the framerate fix (I'll have to look it up if you can't find it).  By default, the game constantly skips around on all PCs.  There is a command you can enable which solves this.  Downside?  If you can't hold 60 fps, the game actually runs at a slower speed.  I had no problems with it, but some PCs certainly do.

Madrun Badrun

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2009, 01:51:31 PM »
FO3 is soooooo good. 

Bebpo

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2009, 01:53:01 PM »
I just upgraded to my new computer so I'm sure I'll be able to hold 60fps.  Everything outside Crysis runs at 60fps+ on it (Crysis Warhead at Enthusiast with custom cfg runs at 4x AA locked 30fps, no AA @ 60fps with dips to 45).

How does the X360 version run?  30fps locked?  Or lower?

Eel O'Brian

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2009, 01:59:24 PM »
Well, I guess I will try Fallout 3 and see how that goes.  My problem with Oblivion was the empty open world, the dull NPCs, the really really shallow combat, the dungeons that were all caves and looked identical and boring, and a not very gripping main story.

yeah, get fallout 3 for pc, there are a metric ton of cool tweaks and plug-ins out there already

What are some good mods to use on a first time run?  I looked and there are like thousands of little ones already, so it's kind of hard to tell what's worth it.

i don't use any gamechanging ones, but i use a plug-in for the Pip Boy which lets me play my own tunes like a radio (while still letting the game sounds come through)

http://www.fallout3nexus.com/

Play a little of the vanilla game first, then dig through the files and see what appeals to you
sup

dark1x

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2009, 01:59:44 PM »
I just upgraded to my new computer so I'm sure I'll be able to hold 60fps.  Everything outside Crysis runs at 60fps+ on it (Crysis Warhead at Enthusiast with custom cfg runs at 4x AA locked 30fps, no AA @ 60fps with dips to 45).

How does the X360 version run?  30fps locked?  Or lower?
OK then, set iFPSClamp=0 to iFPSClamp=60 in the FALLOUT.ini

Without that change, you're be jittering all over the place.  It becomes especially obvious if you use a 360 pad (due to smoother camera rotation).

Eel O'Brian

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #27 on: April 24, 2009, 02:05:05 PM »
if i'm getting 55-60 with drops into the 30s what would be a good fps to clamp down?
sup

cool breeze

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2009, 02:19:38 PM »
Fallout 3 runs at a constant 60 and probably even better than source games.  It's not a great looking game, but it also doesn't require a beast to run it.  Actually, that is one thing I like about console games being the main version of a game this gen; my computer can always run things like Bioshock or Fallout 3 perfectly at 60 because they were designed to run at 30 on lesser hardware (PS3/360).  Then again, the games never look as good as things like Crysis or stalker.

And Fallout 3 is great, even without the mods.  Even just looking at the mods for it, it seems like there are none that are necessary compared to Oblivion.  All the mods for Fallout 3 are just additions and no real refinements, I can't think of anything that really needs refining other than the inventory screen either.  My Oblivion game was completely overhauled soon after playing it because of poor choices in the vanilla game. 

Herr Mafflard

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2009, 02:43:01 PM »
How does the X360 version run?  30fps locked?  Or lower?


Quote
For the most part, the 360 game is locked at 30fps, but when the engine is struggling, it'll turn off the v-lock to maintain refresh rate.
 
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/fallout-3-triple-format-face-off-article?page=1


I played the 360 version and I remember it being really consistent.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2009, 02:44:33 PM by InfectedGib »

dark1x

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2009, 02:44:52 PM »
if i'm getting 55-60 with drops into the 30s what would be a good fps to clamp down?
It's 60 fps or nothing.  If you use that command with a lower value you'll simply end up with weird performance issues.  If you can't hold 60 fps at all times, don't use that setting.

Great Rumbler

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #31 on: April 24, 2009, 02:45:58 PM »
Here are some recommendations:

-Fallout 3 [obvious choice, just get it]
-The Witcher [one of the best Eastern-Euro RPGs, some really interesting story/setting ideas]
-Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines [glitchy even with the latest fan-patch, but is absolutely overflowing with atmosphere/character]
-Deus Ex [not a traditional RPG, plays more to the action crowd, but uses experience points to upgrade your character and gives you a lot of choice in how you play]
-Jade Empire [since you liked KOTOR and Mass Effect, you'll probably like this one too. Combat is kind of janky though and it's pretty short]
-Drakensang [fun game, too many rats though]
-Baldur's Gate II [it's prerendered, but looks great with the wide-screen patch, probably at the top of Bioware's list of games]
-S.T.A.L.K.E.R. [not really an RPG although it does have a lot of quests, oozes with atmosphere]
-Oblivion [Fallout 3 was a step up in every way, but at just $20 it's worth if for the assassin quests and Shivering Isles, plus there are some great mods for it out there]

Stay away from:

-Gothic 3 [combat is horrible, very rough overall]
« Last Edit: April 24, 2009, 02:59:22 PM by Great Rumbler »
dog

Greatness Gone

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #32 on: April 24, 2009, 09:22:36 PM »
I was going to recommend Diablo II, but if you didn't enjoy 1, then you probably wouldn't enjoy the other once. So Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines.

Fallout 3 is zzzzzzzz unless boring gameplay with hours of slow motion involved, characters that don't have any sort of facial expressions, or shitty dialogue sounds fun to you.

Lafiel

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #33 on: April 25, 2009, 01:24:37 AM »
Play THE WITCHER enhanced edition, great dark storyline and setting, lots of different choices with consquences, solid combat, 60 hours long, it will def impress if you liked KOTOR.
I would't really reccomend fallout 3, if you didn't like oblivion, plus it's automatically worse then the witcher because it dosen't have sex. :lol it's still a large improvement over oblivion though, so i would't discount it, i noticed alot of people who hated oblivion loved fallout 3.
That said, your complaints about oblivion are still present in fallout 3, so i would't really reccomend it in that case then.

BlueTsunami

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2009, 01:42:15 AM »

[youtube=560,345]cKbSWaqa8Z8[/youtube]

hmmm - watching this makes me want to play FO3 all over again.

[youtube=560,345]Pbyhpsv-6sM[/youtube]
:9

Bebpo

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #35 on: April 25, 2009, 02:40:20 AM »
So I played the first hour of Fallout 3 PC and the first hour of Last Remnant PC and the first hour of Little King Story.

Fallout 3 - The vault intro was interesting but not very engaging.  I felt like I wanted to get this over with and was mildly bored.  When I finally got the combat it got fun as I liked shooting people with V.A.T.S. Then I got outside and there was...nothing.  Like no enemies to shoot, no NPCs to talk to, just lots of scenery that you couldn't do anything with.  Then I found a person in a house and I guess I got a quest but not really sure where to go for it.  I know I'm supposed to head to Megaton for the next quest, but I want to run around in circles and kill stuff and level up until I get the hang of the battle system like jrpgs, so I'm hoping I'll start seeing enemies on the path to Megaton.  Will play more tonight and see how it goes.  Also I hate that I can pick up all these objects but they're useless and pointless and just take up weight and don't even have descriptions.  Hopefully I can at least sell them.  Anyhow, verdict right now is unsure

The Last Remnant - Wow, this is awesome on PC at 60fps if you force v-sync through your card software.  Compared to the X360 version that was struggling at 15fps it's a huge difference.  Cutscenes look less "cinematic" though at 60fps.  Might try capping it at locked 30fps since there is an option for that in the menu.  The art direction blows the hell out of Fallout 3 away.  It's so colorful and cool looking.  The music is great too.  One thing that sucks is the lip sync is set to the English audio, so with Japanese audio it's like kung fu dub, lol.  The battle system seems really addicting.  The battles are just so much more fun than Fallout 3 and like good jrpgs I want to consistently run up to enemies and start battles.  One thing that sucks is UE3.0 and its texture loading glitch.  Having the textures "pop" in a second after entering each town screen or battle is kind of annoying.  Verdict right now is intriguing

Little King Story - Really liking this too.  The gameplay is kind of simple and not entirely my genre (not big on city builders), but the game has AAA Japanese game polish and heart.  The controls are a little spotty (not motion stuff thankfully) and the graphics are real ugly Wii stuff (though the cutscenes look great), but the music is fantastic, the writing is really really great, and there is a real sense of fun being king and bossing people around and launching villagers into walls.  Verdict right now is joyful fun


BlueTsunami

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #36 on: April 25, 2009, 02:43:49 AM »
Quote
Fallout 3 - The vault intro was interesting but not very engaging.  I felt like I wanted to get this over with and was mildly bored.  When I finally got the combat it got fun as I liked shooting people with V.A.T.S. Then I got outside and there was...nothing.  Like no enemies to shoot, no NPCs to talk to, just lots of scenery that you couldn't do anything with.  Then I found a person in a house and I guess I got a quest but not really sure where to go for it.  I know I'm supposed to head to Megaton for the next quest, but I want to run around in circles and kill stuff and level up until I get the hang of the battle system like jrpgs, so I'm hoping I'll start seeing enemies on the path to Megaton.  Will play more tonight and see how it goes.  Also I hate that I can pick up all these objects but they're useless and pointless and just take up weight and don't even have descriptions.  Hopefully I can at least sell them.  Anyhow, verdict right now is unsure

Fight the urge to strike out across the Wasteland too early. The best course of action is to stick close and radar out from Megaton so you can stock up on ammo (the biggest necessity in this game). Then start hitting the far ends. Other than that, the world is yo' oyster, enjoy looking in every nook and cranny.
:9

Kara

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #37 on: April 25, 2009, 05:13:49 AM »
I like how you guys recommended FO3 without paying any attention to his inability to focus without direction. Hilarity ensued.

BlueTsunami

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #38 on: April 25, 2009, 05:36:09 AM »
Baldur's Gate 2 would make him go insane
:9

Bebpo

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #39 on: April 25, 2009, 06:00:51 AM »
I played Fallout 3 all night.  Did a bunch of quests at Megaton and the surrounding area.
Still not sure how I feel about the game.

Likes:
-Various actions around the world requiring a set # in that skill department.  Makes leveling up and distributing stats fun because you want to access these actions.
-Using dialogue skills to get new dialogue options or change the way scenarios play through talking (loved this in Kotor/ME as well)
-Huge amount of weapons/armor from the get go
-Map teleporting, compass
-Time of day changing and shenmue-ish everyone has a life thing is cool

Dislikes:
-Too much boring dialogue.  NPCs have dozens of dialogue but very little of it is unique or interesting.  Would rather NPCs with quests just have "hey, here's my quest" dialogue when you talk to them and non-quest npcs just have their one line.
-Combat is super shallow and with the weapons I have there's no point in using VATS because it's just 1 bullet whereas you can just keep manually shooting and pump 20 bullets into an enemy in the time it takes to vats 1 bullet.
-WEIGHT LIMIT BLARGH
-The economy is cool in concept but holy crap does it suck in execution.  I already own the bottle caps of every merchant in Megaton and the surrounding area so now I have no one to sell to and meanwhile I keep getting tons of stuff and going over weight so I'm just stuffing it all in lockers to eventually sell later when I meet new sales people.
-Hacking terminals mini-game is annoying

And the main thing is that even after 4-5 hours and stuff I still feel completely unengaged.  I do the motions and get the quests done before going back to the main quest, but the rewards are just some more money or a few items and it's like why did I just waste an hour doing that quest when I already have tons of money and don't need those items?  Meanwhile I couldn't care less about the main quest at this point.  The game is mildly fun but I just can't shake the feeling that it just feels like a waste of time.  In gameplay rpgs I keep playing because the battle system is exciting and grows and you want to keep leveling up your character and get new attacks, or fight new enemies.  In story rpgs I keep playing because I want to know what happens next in the story.  Fallout 3 has neither of these hooks, so it's just sort of ...shrug.  I'll give that time goes by FAST and you can blow hours just by doing a few quests, but at the end of the day I played all night and I don't feel like I accomplished much at all.  I kind of wish the quests were shorter.

brawndolicious

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #40 on: April 25, 2009, 06:11:25 AM »
You could focus on building weapons and learning about the new environments.  Definitely try and get to Tenpenny Tower and Rivet City.  You're probably too early to take on many super-mutants though so right now it's best to just explore around and look for new areas and merchants.

I also really hated the hacking mini-game.

Bebpo

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #41 on: April 25, 2009, 06:12:12 AM »
Playing Last Remnant at the same time I think that while people say jrpgs have a lot of filler/bloat these days at 50-60 hours (which I agree on; jrpgs do have too much filler), ironically wrpgs are 10x more bloated than jrpgs which explains why so many people have 100+ hour game times when they do all the quests.

In Fallout 3 by the time you go talk to all the NPCs and run through all their dialogue trees to get their quests and go do a quest and go back and get the reward you spend an hour and there was a lot of text, traveling, and maybe searching along the way.

In Last Remnant, you go and get your quest, warp straight to the dungeon, walk through the small dungeon fighting a few visible encounters if you want, fight the boss, get your reward/item, warp out and be done.  All the fat is gone.  It's either pure story (cutscene) or pure gameplay (dungeon with battles).  

It's really a pacing thing.  Jrpgs, while having some filler stories and occasionally games with way too long cutscenes (Tri-ace), have good pacing that's straight to the point and constantly throws story or gameplay at you.  Wrpgs have this weird pacing where you are often inbetween story and gameplay and I guess that's what they call non-linear freedom but I call it dull stuff between story and gameplay segments.

Kara

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #42 on: April 25, 2009, 07:48:50 AM »
Baldur's Gate 2 would make him go insane

let's play BG2 with Bebpo

make it happen, someone

demi

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #43 on: April 25, 2009, 08:16:58 AM »
Last Remnant PC has no achievements, who cares. SHIT
fat

WrikaWrek

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #44 on: April 25, 2009, 09:58:56 AM »
Told ya to not get Fallout 3.

Either you are a loot whore, or it doesn't work. And it's not about it being a WRPG, you could've chosen Neverwinter Nights 2 or The Witcher, for example.

Well, better do as other folks do Bebpo, just keep going, maybe by the 15th hour you will be so invested in what you've done that you'll start liking it, you know, because if you don't like it, it will have seemed like a awful waste of time.

I wasn't able to do that, because if i'm 5 hours into a game, and i still don't like it, i say fuck it.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2009, 10:00:35 AM by WrikaWrek »

Lafiel

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #45 on: April 25, 2009, 10:22:41 AM »
Playing Last Remnant at the same time I think that while people say jrpgs have a lot of filler/bloat these days at 50-60 hours (which I agree on; jrpgs do have too much filler), ironically wrpgs are 10x more bloated than jrpgs which explains why so many people have 100+ hour game times when they do all the quests.

In Fallout 3 by the time you go talk to all the NPCs and run through all their dialogue trees to get their quests and go do a quest and go back and get the reward you spend an hour and there was a lot of text, traveling, and maybe searching along the way.

In Last Remnant, you go and get your quest, warp straight to the dungeon, walk through the small dungeon fighting a few visible encounters if you want, fight the boss, get your reward/item, warp out and be done.  All the fat is gone.  It's either pure story (cutscene) or pure gameplay (dungeon with battles).  

It's really a pacing thing.  Jrpgs, while having some filler stories and occasionally games with way too long cutscenes (Tri-ace), have good pacing that's straight to the point and constantly throws story or gameplay at you.  Wrpgs have this weird pacing where you are often inbetween story and gameplay and I guess that's what they call non-linear freedom but I call it dull stuff between story and gameplay segments.
Funny thing is, i found fallout 3 pretty short for a w-rpg or a bethesda game, i finished it recently, and had most of the areas explored, all the side-quests done. (cept for two) and my final game time was like 42 hours.
Fallout 3 should't be used as a representation of w-rpg pacing though, bethesda games are always bloated with boring shit (ironically i found fallout 3 less bloated then oblivion and morrowind).
As WrikaWrek said above, you should play the witcher or NWN 2 instead, the filler and side-quests in that game are much more enjoyable then FO3.
It's good that your enjoying the last remnant though, biggest surprise of 09, the game is so awesome and addictive, and it get's even better when the game starts getting really hard, and all these side-quests start opening up which lead to alot of awesome optional areas to explore. :)






Bebpo

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #46 on: April 25, 2009, 07:36:50 PM »
Ok, I was kind of tired last night when posting.  When I was talking about bloating and filler and pacing I just meant Bethseda rpgs, which stock versions are obviously not my cup of tea.  The Bioware games otoh, felt a lot more to the point.  Outside the traveling between points on the side mission planets, you were always in the action or the story or getting quests.  The battle system was kind of shallow (at least you could freeze time and use buffs/debuff spells), but the story and NPC writing was really good and kept you wanting to see what happens next.  So it's just a Bethseda and me thing.

That being said I grabbed a ton of mods for Fallout 3 and I'm going to try to make it fun.  The most useful one being the sprinting mod allowing fast traveling over the huge map since the default run speed is a little slow and makes it take a while to get to places that quests want you to.  Then I'll add the equippable backpack that ups your weight limit for picking up stuff.  The realistic repair mod that lets you use common items like tin cans and leather to repair armor/weapons of similar material, thus giving an actual point to picking up little no value items.  I'll install the amplified crippling effects mod since right now the battle system is shallow and there's no point in shooting someone in the leg cause they can still chase you pretty fast, but with this mod they'll actually drop speed 50% on leg damage.   I'll add the item description mod to make the game more like a jrpg and give it more personality and I'll add the IU mods so you can see all the dialogue choices at once and not have to keep scrolling all the time and be able to see your radiation level on your status screen without having to drop down a sub-menu to radiation. 

Howard Alan Treesong

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #47 on: April 25, 2009, 07:55:41 PM »
Baldur's Gate 2 would make him go insane

I've tried to play BG2 like four times and every time I stop as soon as I make it to the first town
乱学者

Bebpo

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #48 on: April 25, 2009, 09:07:56 PM »
Sprinting mod doesn't work with an X360 controller because there's no run button, lol  >_<

Otherwise the rest of the mods seem pretty neat.  Just wish I could move faster!

Yeti

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #49 on: April 25, 2009, 10:09:16 PM »
Why would you guys even want to run? I enjoy mostly just creeping around through the wasteland sneak killing the baddies.
WDW

Bebpo

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #50 on: April 26, 2009, 04:39:24 AM »
So I played about 10 hours of this today.  Did all the quests in Megaton except the Wasteland Survival Guide where I did all the ch.1 stuff and am working on the ch.2 stuff.  So I decided to finally head out and continue the main story, but then I got sidetracked in Grayside fighting the giant fire ants.  Just finished that and saved and I think I'm done for the night.  I'm level 6.5 right now.  Will continue to GNR tomorrow.  Been playing the good saint.  Not killing anyone that's not a raider, not stealing anything.  I kind of think it's probably more fun to be total evil and kill everyone in the world and steal everything, but oh well.  The best mod for convenience have been the ammo crate mod that lets you buy 1 round of ammo for any weapon per day.  Until I could afford it I was mainly using melee weapons since I never had any ammo for any weapons besides a pistol.  The rethought repair mod has been great as well as I've been constantly repairing and making my equipment better with junk I pick up.  It gives me an incentive to keep up my repair stats.

Thoughts:
-I enjoy exploring around the world, but it still feels like something is missing.  It's like nothing, nothing, nothing, then you run into a unique place and it's probably just a house/factory/fort setup by raiders and you kill them and loot them and then you're back to nothing.  Like it makes the unique places not very interesting if all you do is run up and kill dudes.  I'd like it more if most of these unique spots allowed you to walk up and talk to the people and choose whether to kill them or to get a quest from them and befriend them.

-The combat is actually pretty fun with the Mars Mutant Mod that makes 1-3x the enemies spawn and makes them different stats/sizes at random.  The combat is challenging when you are overwhelmed by several enemies and coupled with the enhanced cripple mod you got to play it more strategically and work on crippling enemies.  I've died a handful of times already, but thanks to the auto-save all the time it's not an issue.

-The writing is really, really poor.  Comparing Bioware rpgs to Bethseda rpgs it's apparent that Bethseda seriously needs new writers.  The NPC dialogue is incredibly dull and for the most part I just speed click through all the paths to make sure I get whatever quests are offered, items are given.   If the dialogue was better it'd be a far more entertaining game.  But as it stands the quests are fun for the gameplay of going and doing them and not for the story surrounding them.

-I wish you got xp for more stuff.  Too bad there isn't a mod for that.  I want it to be like Star Ocean 4 or Mass Effect where if you read a newspaper you get +1xp, if you open a chest you get +5xp, if you talk a person out of shooting themselves you get +100xp.  It feels like you hardly get xp for doing anything in Fallout 3 so it's less rewarding when you do things.

-The world feels too small and everywhere looks the same.  Even though you could say the game is long by hour-length standards since I'm 10 hours and have only explored a small portion of the map, if I wasn't doing all these sidequests I could have covered much of the map by now.  Also I know it's supposed to be the post-apocalypse so everywhere looks like ruined city or rocky path or field, but I dunno, an entire rpg where everything looks the same is kind of boring from a graphical perspective.

Questions:
-On the stats screen a bunch of my stats have (-) next to them and the stats are lower than they should be.  I can't figure out what is causing this.  I've tried un-equipping all my equipment and removing all my radiation and healing to full HP and sleeping to well rested and I still have (-) stats.  What am I missing?

-How do you get rid of addictions?
 

Why would you guys even want to run? I enjoy mostly just creeping around through the wasteland sneak killing the baddies.

My sneak stat is still like 15 while everything else is 30-40.  I can't go anywhere undetected, lol.  So yeah, stealth kills are ruled out for me. 

demi

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #51 on: April 26, 2009, 05:06:44 AM »
Quote
-On the stats screen a bunch of my stats have (-) next to them and the stats are lower than they should be.  I can't figure out what is causing this.  I've tried un-equipping all my equipment and removing all my radiation and healing to full HP and sleeping to well rested and I still have (-) stats.  What am I missing?

-How do you get rid of addictions?

You just answered your own question

To cure addictions you have to go to a doctor
fat

Lafiel

  • Junior Member
Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #52 on: April 26, 2009, 05:16:00 AM »

 

Quote
-How do you get rid of addictions?
Any doctor in town can help you with that.

Quote
-On the stats screen a bunch of my stats have (-) next to them and the stats are lower than they should be.  I can't figure out what is causing this.  I've tried un-equipping all my equipment and removing all my radiation and healing to full HP and sleeping to well rested and I still have (-) stats.  What am I missing?
Eh aren't those, all your non-tagged skills?  :-\

Quote
-I wish you got xp for more stuff.  Too bad there isn't a mod for that.  I want it to be like Star Ocean 4 or Mass Effect where if you read a newspaper you get +1xp, if you open a chest you get +5xp, if you talk a person out of shooting themselves you get +100xp.  It feels like you hardly get xp for doing anything in Fallout 3 so it's less rewarding when you do things.
It's not that bad actually, since there's less xp involved in leveling up in this game, then either star ocean 4 & mass effect, you still get decent xp for hacking or lock-picking, helping someone with his drug addiction, there's also books and boobleheads scattered around the world that permanently increase your stats.


Quote
-The writing is really, really poor.  Comparing Bioware rpgs to Bethseda rpgs it's apparent that Bethseda seriously needs new writers.  The NPC dialogue is incredibly dull and for the most part I just speed click through all the paths to make sure I get whatever quests are offered, items are given.   If the dialogue was better it'd be a far more entertaining game.  But as it stands the quests are fun for the gameplay of going and doing them and not for the story surrounding them.
That's a pretty pointless complaint, since no-one plays bethseda games for their writing.

Quote
-The world feels too small and everywhere looks the same.  Even though you could say the game is long by hour-length standards since I'm 10 hours and have only explored a small portion of the map, if I wasn't doing all these sidequests I could have covered much of the map by now.  Also I know it's supposed to be the post-apocalypse so everywhere looks like ruined city or rocky path or field, but I dunno, an entire rpg where everything looks the same is kind of boring from a graphical perspective.
Theirs a decent variety in the in-door environments, but yeah all the outdoor stuff looks very samey, and the world is pretty small. I wish it was like the older games, and there was actual grass and trees in certain areas etc. I think you can d/l graphical mods that can fix this actually, but i never tried any of them.

Quote
-The combat is actually pretty fun with the Mars Mutant Mod that makes 1-3x the enemies spawn and makes them different stats/sizes at random.  The combat is challenging when you are overwhelmed by several enemies and coupled with the enhanced cripple mod you got to play it more strategically and work on crippling enemies.  I've died a handful of times already, but thanks to the auto-save all the time it's not an issue.
I had that mod + overhaul mod, and it made the game REALLY REALLY hard even on easy with uber-weapons. :(

Also some tips, i'd try to get to rivet city asap. (the mq actually leads you there), there's a quest called the 'replicated man, that can net you a one of the best weapons in the game.
And try to store and keep any nuka cola quantum, scrap metals, pre-war books, sensor modules you find, since you can turn them in at certain places for caps rad-aways stimpacks ammo etc.





Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #53 on: April 26, 2009, 05:33:21 AM »
Yeah, I'm always running low on stimpacks.  I got totally owned in that pretty lengthy fire ant dungeon.  Have like 1 stimpack left right now, haha ^^;

I didn't install the overhaul mods (FCOM or FOOK) because yeah, they sounded too hardcore for me.  Especially since I'm a Fallout novice.  Even with Mars I'm only enabling the 1-3x spawns because the 2-5x one would be way too hard for me.

But the game is definitely more fun when it's got a bit of a challenge now.  On one hand various mods make it easier to be a powerful badass, but on the other hand mods that make the game tougher balance that so it's still challenging.  I'm really impressed by how much mods can improve the game.  I think after I finish Fallout 3 I will definitely give Oblivion another shot with a ton of mods.

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #54 on: April 26, 2009, 05:43:40 AM »

It's not that bad actually, since there's less xp involved in leveling up in this game, then either star ocean 4 & mass effect, you still get decent xp for hacking or lock-picking, helping someone with his drug addiction, there's also books and boobleheads scattered around the world that permanently increase your stats.


My problem is I don't lockpick much at all because my lockpick stat is really low and it won't even let me attempt or it lets me attempt and I have no lockpicks and force pick % is like 10% so I don't bother.  So yeah, I've cracked open like 2 safes so far in 10 hours.  Same with hacking since I find the mini-game annoying so I don't hack many terminals unless the rewards seem really good.

So the only xp I'm getting is from killing enemies (which hardly gives you any xp [I must have killed 20 fire ants in that last dungeon and I didn't even gain 1/2 a level]) and major quests completion.

I see why they do this since the level cap is so freaking low at 20.  I think it's just bad design tbh.  My ideal Fallout 3 xp management would be:

-Level cap at 50 with expansions going up 20 at a time
-Less skill points per level up so the amount of skill points you have at level 50 = what you have at the current F3's level 20.
-XP given for every little thing you do in the world

This way you're constantly rewarded by xp, which makes you want to do everything you can in the world.  You're constantly leveling up, which is rewarding, exciting, and fun because you keep getting new points to play, yet it's still balanced because you're getting them at a slower rate.

You can almost do this with current mods.  You can up the level cap to 40 and give less skill points at each level.  But you can't increase the ways to gain xp.

Coming from jrpgs I just can't get into the slow "you gain 20 levels in 40-60 hours" progression of Bethseda games.  At least in Bioware's case I hit like level 30 in Mass Effect in < 30 hours.  So it was still lower than jrpg standards where you hit level 60-70 by 50 hours, but at least you were gaining a level an hour which isn't that much lower than the rate you gain in jrpgs. 

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #55 on: April 26, 2009, 06:05:57 AM »
Baldur's Gate 2 would make him go insane

I've tried to play BG2 like four times and every time I stop as soon as I make it to the first town

the town's layout is pretty shit
IYKYK

BlueTsunami

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #56 on: April 26, 2009, 06:12:05 AM »
Did you beat BG2, Himu? I got as far as the town too but stopped at the pub area. I think its the strict D&D rules that are offputting me. I seem to prefer something a bit more straightforward (skillset wise and party wise) like in Fallout 1 and 2.

I'm currently having a ball with Arcanum too. Lots of quests, good writing (so far) and the lore/scenario is awesome.
:9

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #57 on: April 26, 2009, 06:20:33 AM »
I beat it and the expansion. Great game. Took me a while though. I put it off due to the amount of stuff to do, I got overwhelmed. I picked up again a year later, and went through the main story, had a blast.

What is Arcanum?
IYKYK

pilonv1

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #58 on: April 26, 2009, 06:27:46 AM »
Quote
So the only xp I'm getting is from killing enemies (which hardly gives you any xp [I must have killed 20 fire ants in that last dungeon and I didn't even gain 1/2 a level]) and major quests completion.

If your speech or science/repair/intelligence is high enough you'll get XP for saying certain things.

The ammo mod isn't really needed since later on you'll be swimming on so many caps you can buy as much ammo as you want.

There's also a skill that gives you more bag space, and it goes up +10 for every point of strength.

I think a lot of the stuff didn't need to be modded, you're not going to see everything in the first 10 levels. Again there's a reason you can pick up all that garbage, since you can make some cool weapons (bottlecap mines, dart gun, rock-it launcher).

Quote
-Less skill points per level up so the amount of skill points you have at level 50 = what you have at the current F3's level 20.

This way you'd end up not even noticing the levels. You'd get 5 points in a skill every level instead of 15+. Putting 5 points into Small Guns is going to do shit. And you'd still only get new perks every 3 levels, and the best ones would still only be available at level 50.

There's skills too that give you more points to play with per level or every time you read a book. There's items that boost your skill, but usually at the reduction of something else. There's a bunch of consumables you can take to temporarily boost your skills. If you want to get more skill points you need to earn them, not get them doled out to you just for playing.

TBH I think you're complaining about some things that aren't even an issue.
itm

BlueTsunami

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Re: I'm in the mood for a wrpg, what will impress
« Reply #59 on: April 26, 2009, 06:47:12 AM »
What is Arcanum?

Its a WRPG from Troika. Horribly buggy without the last official patch and the fanmade one. Its feels like a mixture of Baldur's Gate and Fallout. The scenario is steampunk (Victorian setting with prominent technological items). There's good and evil choices like most WRPG but you also have to leverage an affinity towards Magic (which is dieing in the new mechanical world) or have a character who is technologically oriented (which is what I'm doing). Its very fun so far (I'm only at the second town).
:9