After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic

[etiolate]

I ran into some strange behaviors when I stopped going to the church I grew up in, but only from those in that church.  Someone had started rumors that I was into drugs and bad behavior, and the other youth had believed it. I eventually came to Quakerism after staying with my beliefs, but finding nothing of use within the church. But since this is California, that sort of soul searching is rather accepted.  Being atheist or agnostic isn't a big deal. You get more hell here if you don't recycle. People don't really care much about my choice of faith, they just wonder where my horse and buggy are.

[castle007]

But seriously Himu, was it Castle? and the shame of sharing the same religion with him?

 

I will just keep ignoring your crap.

[Himu]

Did you pirate it?

[Himu]

I think I will too.

[Tieno]

If you dont believe in God, there is actually less to fear and more to enjoy.

It's from which angle you look at it. I'm more comfortable with the idea of the existence of God because the thought that everything and everyone that has ever lived is just gone forever is terrifying. Not to mention the infinite numbers of injustice done to people throughout history. I hope they get their punishment, and we will watch them have it.

I don't understand this, is your faith is based on fear? Fear of conclusion you'd have to draw so you make yourself belief? Who cares if it's uncomfortable, it's reality.

Besides that, it depends on what you consider 'gone'. Nothing disappears, it's just matter that ends up going into other stuff, we're all made of stardust as Carl Sagan says. I don't fear the idea that I won't be here anymore, I haven't been here for billions of years. I'm just glad I'm able to live on this planet, at such an interesting time where we're able to know a part of what all this stuff is.

[Himu]

Is it condensing towards other who believe? I find the subject of religion fascinating so I respect people who are religious. I just hope it doesn't perpetuate every stereotype about atheists, because I've met far more rude atheists in my life than theists.

[Himu]

If you dont believe in God, there is actually less to fear and more to enjoy.

It's from which angle you look at it. I'm more comfortable with the idea of the existence of God because the thought that everything and everyone that has ever lived is just gone forever is terrifying. Not to mention the infinite numbers of injustice done to people throughout history. I hope they get their punishment, and we will watch them have it.

I don't understand this, is your faith is based on fear? Fear of conclusion you'd have to draw so you make yourself belief? Who cares if it's uncomfortable, it's reality.

Besides that, it depends on what you consider 'gone'. Nothing disappears, it's just matter that ends up going into other stuff, we're all made of stardust as Carl Sagan says. I don't fear the idea that I won't be here anymore, I haven't been here for billions of years. I'm just glad I'm able to live on this planet, at such an interesting time where we're able to know a part of what all this stuff is.

I can attest that as a child, most of my faith was stemmed by fear, rather than love. So it never really felt like true "faith" but something done out of tradition and compulsion.

[GilloD]

I really WISH I could care about this thread. I really want to care about it.

GET IT?!

[Himu]

Is it condensing towards other who believe? I find the subject of religion fascinating so I respect people who are religious. I just hope it doesn't perpetuate every stereotype about atheists, because I've met far more rude atheists in my life than theists.

Bill is an agnost not an atheist, he simply doesn't know. He justs confronts people with the idotic things about faith in a humurous way. Not really any new arguments but fun to watch.

I think the best line in the movie is "Religion makes a virtue of not thinking, it's nothing to be proud of."

Oh, really? I had the idea he was atheist.

[Third]

The first time I saw an Adam and Eve painting I started to question a few things. How come they had belly buttons? They were the first humans on earth. How the hell can they have belly buttons?

That was when I was 8-9 years old. I always questioned a lot of things about religion, and how some things didn't make any sense at all. The hypocrisy surrounding it also made me mad.

The Koran, Bible, Thora etc. are nothing more than mythology books to me. I respect the books, though, because they can help and inspire people. But I personally don't need religion to become a good person. And I'm not afraid to NOT believe.

I think there's a higher power out there. There must be some sort of GOD. But it's not a person nor a living thing.
 
Welcome to the club. Being agnostic is being free. Don't feel depressed for thinking what you actually THINK and BELIEVE.

[Powerslave]

If you dont believe in God, there is actually less to fear and more to enjoy.

It's from which angle you look at it. I'm more comfortable with the idea of the existence of God because the thought that everything and everyone that has ever lived is just gone forever is terrifying. Not to mention the infinite numbers of injustice done to people throughout history. I hope they get their punishment, and we will watch them have it.

I don't understand this, is your faith is based on fear? Fear of conclusion you'd have to draw so you make yourself belief? Who cares if it's uncomfortable, it's reality.

Besides that, it depends on what you consider 'gone'. Nothing disappears, it's just matter that ends up going into other stuff, we're all made of stardust as Carl Sagan says. I don't fear the idea that I won't be here anymore, I haven't been here for billions of years. I'm just glad I'm able to live on this planet, at such an interesting time where we're able to know a part of what all this stuff is.

You must not really give a fuck about family and loved ones then.

[Tieno]

If you dont believe in God, there is actually less to fear and more to enjoy.

It's from which angle you look at it. I'm more comfortable with the idea of the existence of God because the thought that everything and everyone that has ever lived is just gone forever is terrifying. Not to mention the infinite numbers of injustice done to people throughout history. I hope they get their punishment, and we will watch them have it.

I don't understand this, is your faith is based on fear? Fear of conclusion you'd have to draw so you make yourself belief? Who cares if it's uncomfortable, it's reality.

Besides that, it depends on what you consider 'gone'. Nothing disappears, it's just matter that ends up going into other stuff, we're all made of stardust as Carl Sagan says. I don't fear the idea that I won't be here anymore, I haven't been here for billions of years. I'm just glad I'm able to live on this planet, at such an interesting time where we're able to know a part of what all this stuff is.

You must not really give a fuck about family and loved ones then.

I can't tell if you're serious or not.

[Himu]

From Religulous

Man: l think it was determined the shroud or whatever that was, went around a while back--l didn't get involved.

Maher: Shroud of Turin?

Man: They took blood samples from it, and it was female blood with a male figure. Okay, the only possible way that could happen was that the Holy Ghost impregnated Mary because it would've been female blood because it would've been the only blood flowing through her.

Maher: ...

[Himu]

Preacher: What I'm about to say...is revelation! Hallelujah!

- I got it on dvd!

Preacher: I have it on dvd! And you need to get this, Hallelujah!

[Himu]

This movie is HILARIOUS

[Diunx]

I worship that snake deity that Alan Moore also worships, the ladies always find it interesting.

Also the op is way too long and there are too many replys here so I haven't read shit.

[Don Flamenco]

awesome, now you can join the annoying ass "people who watched Religulous" religion.  don't be that douche who wants to put down every religious person they meet with Bill Maher's witty logic.  

I don't believe in any particular religion either but I absolutely hate "piss-on-the-blanket" agnostics who think they're above it all and don't acknowledge that the belief helps a lot of normal people out. 

[brawndolicious]

Religulous was great in the parts where Bill Maher wasn't preaching.  It was just about the stupidest possible religious people that he could track down and so it was funny for at least an hour to anybody (religious or not) but really fell apart when he tried to tack on the anti-religion message at the end considering this wasn't exactly the most unbiased movie.

[Himu]

awesome, now you can join the annoying ass "people who watched Religulous" religion.  don't be that douche who wants to put down every religious person they meet with Bill Maher's witty logic.  

I don't believe in any particular religion either but I absolutely hate "piss-on-the-blanket" agnostics who think they're above it all and don't acknowledge that the belief helps a lot of normal people out. 

Completely agreed. I'm always respectful to others in regards to this.

[Oblivion]

I ran into some strange behaviors when I stopped going to the church I grew up in, but only from those in that church.  Someone had started rumors that I was into drugs and bad behavior, and the other youth had believed it. I eventually came to Quakerism after staying with my beliefs, but finding nothing of use within the church. But since this is California, that sort of soul searching is rather accepted.  Being atheist or agnostic isn't a big deal. You get more hell here if you don't recycle. People don't really care much about my choice of faith, they just wonder where my horse and buggy are.

Same thing happened to me when I moved out and stopped speaking to most of my family. They thought because of no familial guidance I had succumbed to the evils of drugs, hookers, Christianity, etc. It gets quite annoying when people try to equate religion with morality.

She was disappointed but accepted it. However she said things like,"I've failed you as a parent".

I am 100% sure my mom will break down and cry if I told her this, so no.

She once said before she thought she failed as a parent because of my lack in faith of Jesus.

I am serious.

Sorry to hear that, Himu, but sadly it sounds about right. Here's a conversation I had with my mom like 15 years ago.


Me: Mom, I've been wondering, there are plenty of religions out there, how do we know ours is the right one?
Her: *scowl*
Me: Di...Did I say something I wasn't supposed to?
Her: What kind of stupid question is that? How do you know our religion is the right one? Well, think about it. What other religion has as many good qualities about treating other people than ours?
Me: Uh...well, the Jews don't seem that ba...
Her: *LARGER scowl*
Me: Uh...good point.

[Fresh Prince]

At least you get to eat bacon now.

Pork chops too.

[Oblivion]

Besides that, it depends on what you consider 'gone'. Nothing disappears, it's just matter that ends up going into other stuff, we're all made of stardust as Carl Sagan says. I don't fear the idea that I won't be here anymore, I haven't been here for billions of years. I'm just glad I'm able to live on this planet, at such an interesting time where we're able to know a part of what all this stuff is.

I try to use that rationale to ease the fear of nothingness, but the problem is that, a person is currently alive NOW, so it's hard to imagine otherwise.

[Himu]

Almost finished with The God Delusion, which I picked up last month out of pure curiosity. Which is probably the catalyst to me coming to terms with all this.

I think I'd put myself on 5 or 6 on Dawkin's scale after contemplating it. I'll see what I think when I'm done with it.

[Tieno]

Besides that, it depends on what you consider 'gone'. Nothing disappears, it's just matter that ends up going into other stuff, we're all made of stardust as Carl Sagan says. I don't fear the idea that I won't be here anymore, I haven't been here for billions of years. I'm just glad I'm able to live on this planet, at such an interesting time where we're able to know a part of what all this stuff is.

I try to use that rationale to ease the fear of nothingness, but the problem is that, a person is currently alive NOW, so it's hard to imagine otherwise.

I've also been preoccupied with that thought but ever since I started reading up on evolution and the history of the universe I'm just overwhelmed with a sense of privilege and wonder. I'd like to live forever, but that's impossible, I'm quite content with this chance. Maybe I still feel sad or nostalgic about this or something, but I just can't make myself to believe something based on that so you have to live with it.

Here's a nice passage written by Richard Dawkins that I take at heart

"We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones. Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born. The potential people who could have been here in my place but who will in fact never see the light of day outnumber the sand grains of Sahara. Certainly those unborn ghosts include greater poets than Keats, scientists greater than Newton. We know this because the set of possible people allowed by our DNA so massively outnumbers the set of actual people. In the teeth of these stupefying odds it is you and I, in our ordinariness, that are here.

Here is another respect in which we are lucky. The universe is older than 100 million centuries. Within a comparable time the sun will swell to a red giant and engulf the earth. Every century of hundreds of millions has been in its time, or will be when its time comes, 'the present century.' The present moves from the past to the future, like a tiny spotlight, inching its way along a gigantic ruler of time. Everything behind the spotlight is in darkness, the darkness of the dead past. Everything ahead of the spotlight is in the darkness of the unknown future. The odds of your century's being the one in the spotlight are the same as the odds that a penny, tossed down at random, will land on a particular ant crawling somewhere along the road from New York to San Francisco. You are lucky to be alive and so am I.

We live on a planet that is all but perfect for our kind of life: not too warm and not too cold, basking in kindly sunshine, softly watered; a gently spinning, green and gold harvest-festival of a planet. Yes, and alas, there are deserts and slums; there is starvation and racking misery to be found. But take a look at the competition. Compared with most planets this is paradise, and parts of Earth are still paradise by any standards. What are the odds that a planet picked at random will have these complaisant properties? Even the most optimistic calculation will put it at less than one in a million.

Imagine a spaceship full of sleeping explorers, deep-frozen would-be colonists of some distant world. Perhaps the ship is on a forlorn mission to save the species before an unstoppable comet, like the one that killed the dinosaurs, hits the home planet. The voyagers go into the deep-freeze soberly reckoning the odds against their spaceship's ever chancing upon a planet friendly to life. If one in a million planets is suitable at best, and it takes centuries to travel from each star to the next, the spaceship is pathetically unlikely to find a tolerable, let alone safe, haven for its sleeping cargo.

But imagine that the ship's robot pilot turns out to be unthinkably lucky. After millions of years the ship does find a planet capable of sustaining life: a planet of equable temperature, bathed in warm starshine, refreshed by oxygen and water. The passengers, Rip van Winkles, wake stumbling into the light. After a million years of sleep, here is a whole new fertile globe, a lush planet of warm pastures, sparkling streams and waterfalls, a world bountiful with creatures, darting through alien green felicity. Our travellers walk entranced, stupefied, unable to believe their unaccustomed senses or their luck.

As I said, the story asks for too much luck; it would never happen. And yet, isn't it what has happened to each one of us? We havewoken after hundreds of millions of years asleep, defying astronomical odds. Admittedly we didn't arrive by spaceship, we arrived by being born, and we didn't burst conscious into the world but accumulated awareness gradually through babyhood. The fact that we gradually apprehend our world, rather than suddenly discovering it, should not subtract from its wonder."

[FlameOfCallandor]

I'm fucking frightened of "not existing" anymore. It's depressing. 

That's why you have to make the most of it while you're here.

[twerd]

you didn't exist before you were born and i didn't hear you crying like a fucking weiner then. i don't understand why so many people have to turn to religion to find meaning post-mortem. there are things called legacies, memories, artworks...that's how you stay relevant through time, not through some eye in the sky.

[FlameOfCallandor]

 

I'm not religious at all.

Anyway, only a robot wouldn't be afraid of not existing. 

[Himu]

Where does everyone stand on the Dawkins theist-atheist scale?

The more I read The God  Delusion the more I think I'm more of a 6 than a 5. 

1: Strong theist. 100% certainty and belief in God. "I do not believe, I know."

2: De-facto theist. I cannot be certain of God's existence, but I strongly believe and live my life on the assumption that it is there.

3: Agnostic theist. I am uncertain, but inclined to believe in God.

4: Agnostic. God's existence and non-existence are equally probably and improbable.

5: Agnostic atheist. I am uncertain, but inclined to not believe in God.

6: De-facto atheist. I cannot know for certain, but I think God is very improbable and I live my life on the assumption that there is no God.

7: Strong atheist. I know there is no God.

[FlameOfCallandor]

I'm a 4 on the scale of what I think about that scale.

[Himu]

I'd rate that sentence a 4.

[Flannel Boy]

I'm definitely at six on the scale. As a young child I guess I was between a two and a three.

[Himu]

Yeah, I firmly believe there could be something. For all we know energy or atoms are God. Who gives a shit.

But a personal deity -- a spaceman who can hear everyone's voices and prayers and thoughts in the world who hovers around in space on a cloud? I just don't think it's probable. That's not to say it CAN'T exist, but I've come to the conclusion I really don't believe a personal God exists. It makes no sense and I'm tired of hearing the explanation,"We are feeble humans, why question God? We can't understand him." or this goody,"God works in mysterious ways."

I really wonder what conclusion I would have came to if I hadn't picked up this book. I remember someone suggesting it before, but honestly I never really gave it much thought.

[Tieno]

Himu, I suggest you write to Dawkins about the book. He often gets questioned wether you can change people's beliefs but he has maintained he frequently gets mails from people like you, as Convert's Corner shows.

I'm a 6, defacto atheist. Wether there's something before the big bang or whatever, I highly doubt (6) it's supernatural therefor not god in religious terms which I pretty much reject.  I don't like to use the term 'god' in non-supernatural/religious ways.

[Robo]

I'm a 6, defacto atheist. Wether there's something before the big bang or whatever, I highly doubt (6) it's supernatural therefor not god in religious terms which I pretty much reject.  I don't like to use the term 'god' in non-supernatural/religious ways.

Word.  The mythology is what muddies everything up. 

[Van Cruncheon]

also read "the black swan" by nicholas nassim talib (sic, probably)

[Fresh Prince]

So where do you fit on the scale old man?

Mine:
Militant atheist. I cannot know for certain, but I think God is very improbable and I live my life on the assumption that there is no God. If there was I would try and fight him since he's probably old and stupid.

[Fresh Prince]

With Hitchens and a bottle of scotch we would probably win too.

[Barry Egan]

5.

[Himu]

With Hitchens and a bottle of scotch we would probably win too.

What if you had a mech?

[Van Cruncheon]

i see no valid, practical reason to ascribe the human concept of "divinity" to anything that exists outside our knowledge -- especially to that which is not observable. likewise, if it is within our sphere of knowledge, it is circumscribed and can thus be known, and is therefore not "supernatural".

to declare anything a product of divinity is to create an illusion necessary to deal with the limitations of one's own mind (and its attendant fears) at that point in time.

basically, i'm probably a 5 or a 6. i'm sympathetic to the idea of a god or creator, and it holds its appeal, but i can't help but ultimately consider it to be nonsense.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

6

I don't think there is one but if there ever were to be something that was discovered to be created by a deity, then that is fine.  #1 and #7 consists of most of the obnoxious twats I see on the internet.  We have virtually no idea about how most of the universe works and probably won't for all of human civilization.

[Don Flamenco]

4. 

I'm pretty apathetic because, so far, whether there is a god or not has made no difference in my life.  Occasionally I think of the concept of god because it's fun to think about, but I don't think about if it exists. There's no way to know whether it does or doesn't exist and if it does exist, it doesn't want us knowing that for sure. 

and I don't believe in karma or anything of that nature. 

[Flannel Boy]

if it does exist, it doesn't want us knowing that for sure. 

god is a recluse, like me or Howard Hughes.

[Himu]

How can ANYONE be a 1 or 7? I don't get it.

[Don Flamenco]

How can ANYONE be a 1 or 7? I don't get it.

they can believe they're a 1 or 7 all they want. 

[CajoleJuice]

5 or 6

Depending on how much I hate my life at the time, lolz.

[Himu]

Some people in my gaf version of this thread believe they are 1 or 7.

 

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=17921484&postcount=470

[Fresh Prince]

Eh they haven't said they're openly militant about it.

[twerd]

FIVE

[brawndolicious]

http://conservapedia.com/Conservative_Bible_Project

Oh my goodness gracious.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

I guess it fits best in this thread?

[close]

[BlueTsunami]

I'm a Five. I'm not really interested in if there's a God or not, I actually find other similarly improbable things more interesting (life after death, actually perceiving alternate realities, altered states of consciousness and their purpose).

[Don Flamenco]

if it does exist, it doesn't want us knowing that for sure. 

god is a recluse, like me or Howard Hughes.

I'll find it and kill it one day.  It has been toying with me way too much these past few years.

[Diunx]

We should all join Scientology, maybe we get to meet tom cruise one day

[EmCeeGrammar]

I became an atheist when I realised not masturbating wasn't practical.  The wet dreams made me question what these rules really offered than more problems and neurosis.

[Powerslave]

How can ANYONE be a 1 or 7? I don't get it.

That's funny, I talked with some guy I a week back about religion and when I asked him if he believed in God he 'corrected' me with saying he knows there is a God. This guy was a rasta even.

[Himu]

This podcast is fascinating.


http://www.pointofinquiry.org/norm_allen_african_american_religiosity_humanism_and_politics/

In this wide-ranging discussion with D.J. Grothe, Norm Allen explores some of the challenges advancing science and secularism within the African American community. He examines the pressure to conform to the religious ideal among various black skeptics and atheists, including many historical African American figures such as Langston Hughes, Claude McKay, Nella Larsen, and Faye Wattleton, former president of Planned Parenthood of America. He debates whether religion is a liberating or oppressive force for African Americans. He also details many anti-science trends in the Black community, including those coming from Black entertainment outlets promoting anti-science such as psychic 900 lines, televangelists and belief in prophecy. He ties all of this discussion to an exploration of religion and secularism as they relate to political activism, including the influence of such high-profile Black preachers such as Reverend Jeremiah Wright, Senator Barack Obama's spiritual advisor.

http://www.pointofinquiry.org/michael_lackey_science_postmodernism_and_the_varieties_of_black_humanism/

In this discussion with D.J. Grothe, Michael Lackey talks about black liberation atheism, and the view among certain black intellectuals that belief in God results in racial inequality. He explores the black intellectual critique of the Enlightenment and of humanism, and how this has played out in post-modernist skepticism of humanism, science and reason in the academy. Focusing on Richard Wright, he explains the view that the real value of science is how it is democratic, not necessarily that it leads to "the truth". And he talks about the correspondence theory of truth and why he rejects it.