Author Topic: Official MMO News And Information Thread of Etoilet Jacking Off Over Shitty GW2  (Read 209765 times)

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etiolate

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As has been stated before, it's a learn to play issue. GW2 is highly responsive. People are used to WoW's mechanics where numbers show up before the hit animation takes places. Everything auto-hits unless some dice roll says otherwise. GW2 is naturalistic. Animations start off as soon as you press the button, and damage happens at point of contact with the target. So if you fire an arrow, the arrow must be shot and then travel to the target before you see damage. You know, like it sensibly should. WoW's mechanics are a bit disjointed when you think about it.




And once you learn these things, you'll not want to go back to the old way of doings things. It's incredibly hard to go back to Rift or WoW now. There is no depth to my tanking. It's a bunch of passives doing the work for me and the repetition of an ability rotation on my part.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2013, 11:19:01 PM by etiolate »

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Controls in both GW1 and GW2 feels really floaty, PD is right.

etiolate

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 :snoop

etiolate

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vidya gaems

srs bsns

etiolate

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Phoenix Dark

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 :lol

the end is nigh
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archie4208

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When are they going to press the F2P button? 

etiolate

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I was going to say when Titan launches, but that may be too far down the road. It won't happen until there's the next expansion or Titan. They still have around 4 million sub payers. They could go with something like Tera and TSW's system where people who continue to sub get XP bonuses, in-game gifts and free cash shop points while having a F2P option that isn't limiting. Basically the model where F2P is the normal game and subs are the Luxury Version.

etiolate

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Wildstar has great promo vids.

StealthFan

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I think Wildstar is the next Darkfall/WAR/Age Of Conan/Guild Wars 2.

Any of you brehs play Rift, Neverwinter or EQ2?
reckt

etiolate

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that made no sense

StealthFan

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Wildstar is the next hyped MMO to fall on its ass.
reckt

Damian79

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Wildstar is not hyped.  The gameplay looked terrible.

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Only MMO's I have faith in now are EQ next and  that vampire game the Eve Online guys are making.

etiolate

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Wildstar isn't all that hyped right now. They haven't explained their business model and a lot of the game seems to be there by choice just to make the game  like old WoW for no good reason.

Like originally they had the old mob tagging system in the game and traditional questing. So it was the same old issue of trying to tag ten rats before anyone else does. They got a lot of negative feedback on it, so they switched to some system that splits the XP if more players tag a mob. I am not even sure that's better because that then creates animosity for someone stealing XP from you by trying to help you out. The only reason they aren't using the GW2 system is due to some aspergers shit in their dev house. They want to force people into party invites instead of just have people play together naturally. It's like fuuuuuck.

I hold near and dear to my heart right now that the truth of MMO development is that you SHOULD NOT try to model your game to appease MMO vagabonds. You may want to ignore most of the MMO community entirely. They all want different things and most don't know what they want. A lot are trying to crawl back into the womb and are using your games as some sort of nesting ground for mutual hatefucking. If you try to go after the old MMO crowd, you're essentially going to build The Homer of MMOs.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2013, 03:55:19 PM by etiolate »

Freyj

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Wildstar has great promo vids.

Is Dreamworks working on this?  :kobeyuck

etiolate

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Got my third character to max level in GW2 and immediately outfitted him with some exotic gear. I busted out ten levels tonight from WvWvW and Crafting.

Outfitting him in Cultural Armor and silver dye cost a bit of gold doe. =|



etiolate

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:lol I got an email from LOTRO saying that due to not having paid upkeep on my house that it's about to be essentially foreclosed. My poor old hobbit hole.



Oh, here's your sandbox:

http://www.mmoculture.com/2013/07/age-of-wushu-video-preview-of-forced-castration-by-rootless-clan/
Quote
Mentioned in my previous post, some reader were at disbelieve at how the Rootless Clan is able to forcefully castrate another male character in Age of Wushu. At a recent fan event in China, developer Snail Game had a demo of the system, which you can see below.



Quote
1. Obtain a special daily quest, which is only available to members of the Rootless Clan of certain fame (exact requirements not mentioned). The word “阉” will appear on the character’s head.

2. 5 of such players may now form a party.

3. Get into position, and activate the formation spell, Soul Breaking Formation (the bright insignia on the ground).

4. After the formation ends, 2 skills will now be enabled, 1 is to mark (show if he is suitable to be castrated) and the other to start the castration process.

5. The Rootless Clan members will then attack him, bringing the target to low health. Note that the target must be someone powerful as well, not just any newbie.

6. The castration process begins when the tent appears. It has a health bar of its own, and random NPCs (adjusted according to party strength) will try to save the victim, while the victim can seek help as well.

7. After around 2 minutes, the process will end. However, the success rate of castration is still considered low at this time. If it is unsuccessful, the victim will still sustain significant damage.


« Last Edit: July 22, 2013, 03:23:58 PM by etiolate »

Phoenix Dark

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I tried out the monk in beta, and briefly played around with one after launch. Definitely fun to level, but I never could decide what to do with mine. Naturally I was inclined to start tanking, but it seemed so easy in the early levels that I moved back to dps.

iirc you just throw smoke and start beating on people, and never lose aggro.
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Phoenix Dark

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Most tank classes are brainless now, but pallys and bears are still easier to tank with than warriors. Obviously the protection warrior has come a long way since the days of constant sunder-tab-sunder-tab-sunder-tab, thanks to the crazy bleed damage you can do so effortlessly. One thunder clap causes that bleed effect, and unless you suck it shouldn't be hard to keep everything on you after that.

During much of WOTLK the warrior tank was a lot more challenging. Spamming aoe didn't bind mobs to you, especially if you had an asshole DK in your group. Last time I played WoW I had a blood DK popping aoe seconds after I engaged mobs, and didn't have to do anything extra.
010

etiolate

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https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/august-06-2013/

Yet another update. Going to go champ hunting if the rewards are nice. I know of quite a few less common champs out in the world. Curious to see what the Jubilee stuff is like.


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Etiolate do you still play games besides gw2?

Im just wondering cause i didnt play anything besides wow.

etiolate

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In the past week or two I've played Awesomenauts and Syberia II. GW2 does eat up a lot of time, but I try to get to my game backlog here and there. I don't think it's healthy to just play one game all the time, even though I'm partially guilty of that myself.

etiolate

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Re: Official MMO News And Information Thread of Etoilet Shilling for Arena.Net
« Reply #1463 on: August 01, 2013, 05:48:47 PM »
http://kotaku.com/blizzards-next-subscription-mmo-is-no-longer-a-subscri-993248008

In a non-shocker, Titan won't be sub based. This is more confirmation rather than news.

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Re: Official MMO News And Information Thread of Etoilet Shilling for Arena.Net
« Reply #1464 on: August 01, 2013, 05:58:27 PM »
Total non shock yeah.

Wonder what they will go for.

etiolate

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Re: Official MMO News And Information Thread of Etoilet Shilling for Arena.Net
« Reply #1465 on: August 01, 2013, 06:00:09 PM »
Either the GW2 model or the F2P model with a sub option for monthly in-store credits and XP boosts. Perhaps they'll come up with a new model all their own, but that's extra risky.

Freyj

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Re: Official MMO News And Information Thread of Etoilet Shilling for Arena.Net
« Reply #1466 on: August 01, 2013, 08:52:19 PM »
They're getting more and more microtransaction-y with WoW, so I wouldn't expect anything nice.

Tucah

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Re: Official MMO News And Information Thread of Etoilet Shilling for Arena.Net
« Reply #1467 on: August 01, 2013, 08:54:32 PM »
Hoping for a simple buy to play model but I could definitely see them going all out with microtransactions depending on how well it works with WoW, Blizz AS and Hearthstone.

etiolate

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Re: Official MMO News And Information Thread of Etoilet Shilling for Arena.Net
« Reply #1468 on: August 01, 2013, 11:19:33 PM »
A lot of MMOs would be very happy to be Guild Wars 2 right now.

Freyj

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Re: Official MMO News And Information Thread of Etoilet Shilling for Arena.Net
« Reply #1469 on: August 02, 2013, 11:29:33 AM »
http://kotaku.com/blizzards-next-subscription-mmo-is-no-longer-a-subscri-993248008

In a non-shocker, Titan won't be sub based. This is more confirmation rather than news.

Titan will be shit. Mark my words.

In fact I predict Titan will be a Guild Wars 3 of sorts. I'm sure you'll love it etoilet.

It was shit the moment they scrapped half a decade of work.

In other news, the  EverQuest Next reveal is in 3.5 hrs http://www.twitch.tv/everquestnext

They revealed the logo and main theme last night
« Last Edit: August 02, 2013, 11:31:44 AM by Freyj »

archie4208

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Re: Official MMO News And Information Thread of Etoilet Shilling for Arena.Net
« Reply #1470 on: August 02, 2013, 11:46:02 AM »


I'm kinda hyped, but I know all my good times with EQ are nostalgia fueled.  I'm setting myself up for disappointment.  :fbm

etiolate

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Re: Official MMO News And Information Thread of Etoilet Shilling for Arena.Net
« Reply #1471 on: August 02, 2013, 03:02:57 PM »
RE EQN:

I am eager to see some concrete evidence of the game. Right now it's hype in almost its purest form. I want to see the combat, the visuals, and what new ideas they are bringing. I am also curious to see MMO players reaction. Sandbox is a buzzword right now, but the truth is that more people talk about sandboxes than go out and play them. It's not like sandbox MMOs haven't launched in the past year or two. That's why I posted that Age of Wushu story. Pretty sure noone knows about crazy stuff like that in general MMO populace, but that same populace has a chorus of "SANDBOOOOOOOOOOX".  Do people really want a sandbox or do they want to crawl back in time to their virgin MMO days?

etiolate

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Re: Official MMO News And Information Thread of Etoilet Shilling for Arena.Net
« Reply #1472 on: August 05, 2013, 04:59:53 PM »
So I just discovered that people are copy/pasting my various comments on the web in regards to MMOs as their own comments in other parts of the web. I read an article on EQN's gameplay mechanics and find a comment I wrote in a youtube yesterday posted word for word in response. I then scroll down all the responses, and find a response I wrote three days ago in response by someone else. It's like I'm having a conversation with myself vicariously through others, so that I may observe the torrential effect of my words.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2013, 06:19:35 PM by etiolate »

Dickie Dee

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Re: Official MMO News And Information Thread of Etoilet Shilling for Arena.Net
« Reply #1473 on: August 05, 2013, 06:05:08 PM »
I'm excited about what they've shown so far, but I'll wait and see how they handle things like Resources and the Economy which are a bit more fundamental to a "Sandbox" game then destructible rocks
___

etiolate

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Re: Official MMO News And Information Thread of Etoilet Shilling for Arena.Net
« Reply #1474 on: August 05, 2013, 08:52:58 PM »
I like a lot of what I see of EQN. I just hope the players don't try to drag the game back into the past. They can't seem to let go of the trinity. 

Freyj

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Re: Official MMO News And Information Thread of Etoilet Shilling for Arena.Net
« Reply #1475 on: August 05, 2013, 10:48:17 PM »
When do we get your thesis on the evils of the Trinity?  :ohhh


Damian79

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Re: Official MMO News And Information Thread of Etoilet Shilling for Arena.Net
« Reply #1476 on: August 06, 2013, 02:26:16 AM »
I came in sceptical and came out a believer.

Rufus

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Re: Official MMO News And Information Thread of Etoilet Shilling for Arena.Net
« Reply #1477 on: August 06, 2013, 10:17:47 AM »
No, that's bullshit. If every character class has some way to regain health and maybe buff themselves the trinity is already out of the window. The trinity is just the typical RPG party of min-maxed specialists. The only reason people go for it is because games are designed in such a way for that to be the most effective set-up.

Shooting is to FPS as character growth is to RPGs. And RPG can have any kind of combat (turn based, real-time, semi-realtime) and theme (including guns).
« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 10:19:32 AM by Rufus »

fistfulofmetal

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Re: Official MMO News And Information Thread of Etoilet Shilling for Arena.Net
« Reply #1478 on: August 06, 2013, 11:24:46 AM »
I'm def going to play Everquest Next. It looks awesome.

Elder Scrolls Online seems pretty cool since it looks basically like Skyrim
nat

Rufus

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Re: Official MMO News And Information Thread of Etoilet Shilling for Arena.Net
« Reply #1479 on: August 06, 2013, 11:47:03 AM »
The only reason people go for it is because games are designed in such a way for that to be the most effective set-up.

That's funny, I thought we had trinity to begin with because it was fun.

But I guess I'm just weird. :comeon
I'm not excluding that of course. Wether the trinity emerged as the dominant set-up or games were made so that the trinity was the dominant set-up doesn't really matter. It doesn't mean that it's the only way to do things.

Rufus

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Re: Official MMO News And Information Thread of Etoilet Shilling for Arena.Net
« Reply #1480 on: August 06, 2013, 12:08:19 PM »
I already did.

Rufus

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Re: Official MMO News And Information Thread of Etoilet Shilling for Arena.Net
« Reply #1481 on: August 06, 2013, 12:22:43 PM »
"Maybe"
It doesn't have to be that way. Throw healing, buffing or both out the window and go from there. Or start at the challenges and mechanics characters face and try to avoid the trinity there. I'm not creative enough to think this through to its conclusion (and neither do I care to), but it seems daft to lock it down to what we already have.
I think the main issue lies in designing something that fosters (or forces) co-operation. Otherwise you could already do what ARPGs do and let everyone essentially be DPS, with maybe one or two supports for buffs.

etiolate

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Re: Official MMO News And Information Thread of Etoilet Shilling for Arena.Net
« Reply #1482 on: August 06, 2013, 05:04:13 PM »
A gw2 example: Colossus Fractal

Players must carry a magical hammer up the scaffolding of a giant colossus and use the enchanted hammer to break seals binding the Colossus. The hammer replaces their attacks with hammer attacks. To unlock a seal, the hammer must be powered up by using it to kill a priest. However, the hammer has a debuff that does damage as it stacks and will kill the holder at 25 stacks. This means the group of five must pass around the hammer as they carry it up the scaffolding, making sure the hammer wielder hits the priest before they kill it, and then hits the seal. They also have to drop the hammer before it hits 25 stacks and keep mobs off the hammer holder since that player takes damage from the hammer. It's basically hot potato with movement and fighting, and it requires co-operation and organization without the need for the trinity.

Actually, most of the fractal bosses require co-operation and organization without the trinity being needed.

I mean, do you need the holy trinity to do other challenges in life? You have some NPC to protect, then you have some players buff the NPC and heal it a bit, the rest keep waves of mobs away. I think of Zelda or just a single player action rpg or adventure game. There's mechanics to bosses and fights in there, and all you have to do is force it to have the mechanics split up for multiple players.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 05:32:21 PM by etiolate »

etiolate

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Re: Official MMO News And Information Thread of Etoilet Shilling for Arena.Net
« Reply #1483 on: August 06, 2013, 05:50:31 PM »
Anyways, been doing the new Queen's Jubilee patch since it dropped last night. There's certain stuff they're trying to do that I think could be done better, but I don't want to get into a deep mechanics thing since most of y'all couldn't participate.

I will say how cool the area is and try to describe how it works.

They rebuilt an area of the main human city (Divinity's Reach) for the Queen's 10th anniversary. (lore stuff)


Inside this area is the Gauntlet or whatever. There's two things, but they're not entirely separate. At the mid level is where the vendors and the npcs are. It's the safe area and the respawn area if you die. Below this area, six different zones are laid out in sections, each featuring a different type of land/architecture and type of enemy faction. Each enemy factions has regular mobs, vets, champs and a boss that spawns. This is the open PVE area where large groups of people fight.



Above this area are these glass arenas hanging from the ceiling.


These are the Boss Challenge arenas. Only one player can enter and fight the boss of their choosing. (You can add "gambits" which give your character extra difficulties to overcome for increased reward.) You select a boss, you select a difficulty tier, and you can add gambits for increased reward. When you get in, it's instanced but not. Nobody else can enter, but everyone watching from the walkway can see you fighting. So can the players below in the open PVE area since it's all the same zone. An announcer says when a new challenger starts and it says when a challenger is running out of time to kill the boss. Here's the funny bit: If your boss timer runs out, you don't respawn up top. Instead the glass floor breaks away and you fall to the area below. So you can watch others do boss challenges, but you can also have them randomly fall to their death as you're fighting in the area below.

etiolate

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Re: Official MMO News And Information Thread of Etoilet Shilling for Arena.Net
« Reply #1484 on: August 06, 2013, 07:46:13 PM »
We can all only hope to be as good as you Ruzbeh. Figuring out basic WoW combat mechanics eight years into the game's lifecycle? That's damn impressive.

etiolate

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Re: Official MMO News And Information Thread of Etoilet Shilling for Arena.Net
« Reply #1485 on: August 06, 2013, 08:37:12 PM »
 :umad

Freyj

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Re: Official MMO News And Information Thread of Etoilet Shilling for Arena.Net
« Reply #1486 on: August 06, 2013, 08:58:33 PM »
I mean, do you need the holy trinity to do other challenges in life? You have some NPC to protect, then you have some players buff the NPC and heal it a bit, the rest keep waves of mobs away. I think of Zelda or just a single player action rpg or adventure game. There's mechanics to bosses and fights in there, and all you have to do is force it to have the mechanics split up for multiple players.

"Other challenges in life"? Woe unto the developer that makes an "unrealistic" massively multiplayer online role playing game set in Orcs n Elves n Dwarves land.

The genre has issues, but the Trinity wasn't one of them. I guess ArenaNet told us it was though, so here's to a decade of solo dpsing with 20 other strangers.

etiolate

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Re: Official MMO News And Information Thread of Etoilet Shilling for Arena.Net
« Reply #1487 on: August 06, 2013, 11:10:13 PM »
If all you're doing in GW2 is dpsing then you aren't playing it all that well. You all can handle more than one thing at once right? Just because you can't be the one tank or one of the healers who just heal doesn't mean you can't take on some mob aggro, help out your allies, debuff the baddies and still burn their faces.

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Re: Official MMO News And Information Thread of Etoilet Shilling for Arena.Net
« Reply #1488 on: August 07, 2013, 03:10:39 AM »
We can all only hope to be as good as you Ruzbeh. Figuring out basic WoW combat mechanics eight years into the game's lifecycle? That's damn impressive.

 :whoo

Phoenix Dark

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Re: Official MMO News And Information Thread of Etoilet Shilling for Arena.Net
« Reply #1489 on: August 07, 2013, 08:55:33 AM »
We can all only hope to be as good as you Ruzbeh. Figuring out basic WoW combat mechanics eight years into the game's lifecycle? That's damn impressive.
:dead
010

etiolate

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Re: Official MMO News And Information Thread of Etoilet Shilling for Arena.Net
« Reply #1490 on: August 09, 2013, 05:16:29 PM »


SA Goons take  70 Necromancers into WvWvW with full Minion Master builds. 70 x 5 minions each = 350 models on screen = probably like 8 FPS lol


Freyj

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Re: Official MMO News And Information Thread of Etoilet Shilling for Arena.Net
« Reply #1491 on: August 14, 2013, 08:29:20 PM »
Jesus endgame WoW is so bad. I want to PvP but apparently there is no balanced PvP mode where gear is normalized. What the fuck is up with that. Fucking gay ass shit. I can't even do fair PvP in this game.

So I'll PvE. The numbers on the weapons just keep getting higher and higher. At a certain point it should stop. But it doesn't. What the actual fuck. I've seen weapons that do more than twice the damage than the weapons I'm using as level 90. Now I understand some increase in damage for better weapons but why such a MASSIVE increase? I don't remember having to chase higher numbers in order to keep playing in a game like the original Guild Wars. Cosmetic stuff or other, difficult to obtain exclusive stuff was fine. PvE challenges + balanced PvP should be the endgame, not chasing higher numbers and getting better gear.

I'll stick to my guns and say that low level WoW was the best.

Also, I don't care about raids anymore, now that I've found out what they're kind of about. It's basically like dungeons but with lots of people and the bosses use all kinds of shitty gimmicks to keep things exciting. Fuck that shit.


Rufus

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Re: Official MMO News And Information Thread of Etoilet Shilling for Arena.Net
« Reply #1492 on: August 14, 2013, 09:23:15 PM »
So they turned it from a treadmill into an escalator?

etiolate

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Re: Official MMO News And Information Thread of Etoilet Shilling for Arena.Net
« Reply #1493 on: August 14, 2013, 11:55:03 PM »
Jesus endgame WoW is so bad. I want to PvP but apparently there is no balanced PvP mode where gear is normalized. What the fuck is up with that. Fucking gay ass shit. I can't even do fair PvP in this game.

So I'll PvE. The numbers on the weapons just keep getting higher and higher. At a certain point it should stop. But it doesn't. What the actual fuck. I've seen weapons that do more than twice the damage than the weapons I'm using as level 90. Now I understand some increase in damage for better weapons but why such a MASSIVE increase? I don't remember having to chase higher numbers in order to keep playing in a game like the original Guild Wars. Cosmetic stuff or other, difficult to obtain exclusive stuff was fine. PvE challenges + balanced PvP should be the endgame, not chasing higher numbers and getting better gear.

I'll stick to my guns and say that low level WoW was the best.

Also, I don't care about raids anymore, now that I've found out what they're kind of about. It's basically like dungeons but with lots of people and the bosses use all kinds of shitty gimmicks to keep things exciting. Fuck that shit.



The player who made this video is incredibly sad. Wowtards just don't get it.

He even makes the point that he fails to see as important. If players wanted to do the harder versions, they could work towards that. If players just want to see the content then they can do that without facing the hardest version. Diffierent difficulty levels is nothing new. Does a sliding difficulty scale destroy the fighting game community? Nope. Then why would it destroy WoW PVE? If players aren't interested in the more difficult challenge then perhaps your PVE community wasn't ever anything but an exclusive club of grinders rather than a selection of high skilled players.

Perhaps people want more than raids and DIFFICULTY BASED ON GEAR CHEEKS. I think that's the main problem he has. It seems he thinks WoW is amazingly deep or difficult by design. Most of the difficulty in raiding came from gear cheeks and learning the fight. Learning the fight was the only player-based skill check. The truth is that most X Mages will be doing the same spell rotation and the same routine. The only differences between them being gear.

The only thing to take form his video, other than his sad mental state, is that the playerbase ignores each other within dungeons. They only pay attention when someone gets in the way of them getting gear.

WoW is old. It's been outdone. It was NEVER an amazing piece of game design. It was fun due to the social nature of MMOs. It was fun because it was a giant persistent world. Decline was inevitable.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2013, 11:57:59 PM by etiolate »

Freyj

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Re: Official MMO News And Information Thread of Etoilet Shilling for Arena.Net
« Reply #1494 on: August 15, 2013, 11:12:20 PM »
The player who made this video is incredibly sad. Wowtards just don't get it.

He even makes the point that he fails to see as important. If players wanted to do the harder versions, they could work towards that. If players just want to see the content then they can do that without facing the hardest version. Diffierent difficulty levels is nothing new. Does a sliding difficulty scale destroy the fighting game community? Nope. Then why would it destroy WoW PVE? If players aren't interested in the more difficult challenge then perhaps your PVE community wasn't ever anything but an exclusive club of grinders rather than a selection of high skilled players.

Perhaps people want more than raids and DIFFICULTY BASED ON GEAR CHEEKS. I think that's the main problem he has. It seems he thinks WoW is amazingly deep or difficult by design. Most of the difficulty in raiding came from gear cheeks and learning the fight. Learning the fight was the only player-based skill check. The truth is that most X Mages will be doing the same spell rotation and the same routine. The only differences between them being gear.

The only thing to take form his video, other than his sad mental state, is that the playerbase ignores each other within dungeons. They only pay attention when someone gets in the way of them getting gear.

WoW is old. It's been outdone. It was NEVER an amazing piece of game design. It was fun due to the social nature of MMOs. It was fun because it was a giant persistent world. Decline was inevitable.

The community isn't the same one that was around almost 10 years ago. It's hardly the same one that was around 3 years ago. Passing any kind of judgment on what WoW was based on the habits of the current community is some kind of nintard level bullshit.

You built an entire array of elevators and then bitch that everyone is a fat lazy fuck for not taking the stairs to the 54th floor. What's the reasoning for taking the stairs? Fuck you that's what. True MMO fans would ALWAYS take the stairs.

The problem with modern MMO design isn't "the trinity" or whatever else comprises ArenaNet Kool-Aid™, it's an utter shit balance of risk and reward.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2013, 11:13:59 PM by Freyj »

etiolate

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Re: Official MMO News And Information Thread of Etoilet Shilling for Arena.Net
« Reply #1495 on: August 16, 2013, 12:59:48 AM »
The PVE community always looks for the easiest way through and the idea that they did it the hard way for any reason other than it being the only way is silly.

Risk v Reward argument has merit, but not with his example. I don't see how risk v reward is not held up in WoW. How is there not reward equal to risk with WoW's multi-difficulty raids? You do the hardest mode and you get the most powerful gear. You do the easy mode and your gear is much weaker.

I can tell you Risk v Reward is far worse in GW2.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2013, 01:05:22 AM by etiolate »

Rufus

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Re: Official MMO News And Information Thread of Etoilet Shilling for Arena.Net
« Reply #1496 on: August 16, 2013, 01:39:43 AM »
I don't play WoW, but if it is as the guy in the video describes, i.e. you can take a sleepwalking tour through the content, then that risk reward discrepancy between the two approaches is meaningless as well. What would you need the better gear for outside of those challenges? E-peen?

etiolate

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Re: Official MMO News And Information Thread of Etoilet Shilling for Arena.Net
« Reply #1497 on: August 16, 2013, 01:47:20 AM »
But that's how the entire game is. You don't do any dungeons, its hard to get decent gear. If you want the harder challenge then you do the harder modes and get the better gear. That paradigm still exists. The only difference is that the e-peen of seeing content that others haven't is gone. That's all. It's this idea that *I* deserve this and you don't. It's childish.

Rufus

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Re: Official MMO News And Information Thread of Etoilet Shilling for Arena.Net
« Reply #1498 on: August 16, 2013, 01:57:11 AM »
That I can relate to.

Freyj

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Re: Official MMO News And Information Thread of Etoilet Shilling for Arena.Net
« Reply #1499 on: August 16, 2013, 11:27:24 AM »
The PVE community always looks for the easiest way through and the idea that they did it the hard way for any reason other than it being the only way is silly.

PEOPLE always look for the easiest way through. It's human nature. Everyone else follows those people because it's status quo.

Risk v Reward argument has merit, but not with his example. I don't see how risk v reward is not held up in WoW. How is there not reward equal to risk with WoW's multi-difficulty raids? You do the hardest mode and you get the most powerful gear. You do the easy mode and your gear is much weaker.

But that's how the entire game is. You don't do any dungeons, its hard to get decent gear. If you want the harder challenge then you do the harder modes and get the better gear. That paradigm still exists. The only difference is that the e-peen of seeing content that others haven't is gone. That's all. It's this idea that *I* deserve this and you don't. It's childish.

That's not his point at all, I think you're looking at this from the wrong angle. He's not saying that "how it was before was better because only I got to do it", he's saying that how it is now is worse because everyone does it and it doesn't mean anything. He then follows that up with "is this really a better scenario from a designer's perspective?" because the key reasoning that Blizzard has given for introducing LFR is that "no one got to see the content we were spending the majority of our time on". So is it really better if significantly less people see the encounters from the difficulty level that they were designed for so that EVERYONE can see the encounters from a difficulty level where what an individual player does or doesn't do makes almost exactly no impact on the success of the encounter?

If you could argue that it helped player retention rates by virtue of accessibility, I'd concede that I'm fighting money and there's no winning that, but when players re-sub once every 4-6 months for a single month and then promptly un-sub after finishing LFR, I don't think it is. For a F2P or P2P analogy, those players would no longer be purchasing things from the item shops. Whatever the payment model is, the money flow is dead and you can only pray that they'll continue re-subbing and not forgo a content release or three due to other obligations or games.

There has to be some sort of middle ground starting point between the mindless hour a week unscheduled time commitment that LFR is and the part-time second job that organized raiding is. I think that this new difficulty level between LFR and Normal could be that, but it has to replace LFR entirely if end-game raiding is going to remain the core of your offerings.