Borecast 27: A Piece of Yourself (with special guest Fragamemnon!)

[brawndolicious]

I've only watched a little bit of 24 but MW2 seemed about as implausible as anything on that show.  Besides, you play the campaign for the action, setpieces, and the general chaos.  It's fun in a warporn type of way (like every other game in the series).  I can't remember the last linear fps where I was as excited for the story as I was for the action so I figure MW2 sort of meets the status quo for stories.

Admittedly, the PC version is a total technical fuck-up for not having dedicated servers, but the rest of the game is average or above average.

[border]

You guys will happily defend garbage if it seems to have a premise/theme/setting that you really like (Darkest of Days, Dynasty Warriors, grindy JRPGS).....it just seems like you didn't like the MW2 premise.

[Van Cruncheon]

in dynasty warriors or jrpgs defense, i would play them if they starred the bratz and the cast of twilight, provided the BATTLES or STATZ were there, respectively. hell, i crap all over jrpg plots/themes every episode!

i have never been one to NOT play something based on the narrative premise or trappings

(obviously)

(i have even played starfox games)

[Fragamemnon]

You guys will happily defend garbage if it seems to have a premise/theme/setting that you really like (Darkest of Days, Dynasty Warriors, grindy JRPGS).....it just seems like you didn't like the MW2 premise.

King's Bounty (and the new expandalone) have some of the most insipid settings and stories imaginable, even by Eastern Bloc standards, but I'll fall out of my chair in praise of that game-it knows it's a easy-moving yet sophisticated strategy RPG at heart and doesn't let anything get int the way of that. It's very much self-aware that its story and plot are meaningless and doesn't try to force them to be something to the game that they can't possibly be.

've only watched a little bit of 24 but MW2 seemed about as implausible as anything on that show.

MW2 is way worse, though I've only seen plot summaries of the first few seasons of 24. Getting an nuke or a bioweapon into the US by terror groups is entirely plausible, arranging and managing an even limited transatlantic, mostly airbone invasion of the United States in a matter of days (according to the game's timeline!) is impossible, and doing so with the premise that no one saw it coming is patently absurd to the point of "hey let's put in in there and see what we can get away with". I mean, seriously, the logistical equations involved are completely not solvable.

[Great Rumbler]

From what I've read of the plot, they could plug it into a C&C Red Alert game and no one would know the difference.

[The Fake Shemp]

in dynasty warriors or jrpgs defense, i would play them if they starred the bratz and the cast of twilight, provided the BATTLES or STATZ were there, respectively. hell, i crap all over jrpg plots/themes every episode
(i have even played starfox games)

I think border pretty much hit the nail on the head.

Regardless of whether or not the story is stupid (it is), it doesn't get "in the way"; I don't think there are even any cutscenes (outside of the dialogue spoken during the loading screen). And it's fun to play. It has the FPS equivalent of BATTLES and STATZ, which is GUNZ and ACTION.

Calling it a story-driven game is a stretch. I was unaware of most of the plot, I just shot people.

[brawndolicious]

MW2 is way worse, though I've only seen plot summaries of the first few seasons of 24. Getting an nuke or a bioweapon into the US by terror groups is entirely plausible, arranging and managing an even limited transatlantic, mostly airbone invasion of the United States in a matter of days (according to the game's timeline!) is impossible, and doing so with the premise that no one saw it coming is patently absurd to the point of "hey let's put in in there and see what we can get away with". I mean, seriously, the logistical equations involved are completely not solvable.

yeah but the story mentions that ultranationlists got much more popular and became a legitimate political party after Zakhaev's death so it could be possible that they got into highest parts of the government and military and that the invasion was being planned for a while.  It still doesn't make sense but whatever.

[Eel O'Brian]

I've hated plenty of WWII games, even though I dig WWII history, so premise had nothing to do with it as far as I'm concerned

And,  yet again, we've spent just as much time crapping all over other games without the "OW! You hit my tender spot!" or "Uh, um, I think you guys were being unfair..." responses, so MW2 fans must be extra-special-sensitive

Are MW2 fans the new Ninthings?

Seems so.

Shit game, pass, lol Infinity Ward, insert jank screenshot, etc.

[cool breeze]

The story in MW2 was the best part of single player.  Not exactly the plot or anything, but the situations and settings they put you in.  If it didn't have all the exposition and drawn out in-game cutscenes, it would be comparable to nes-era games where there was no cohesion between levels.  Also, IW has a massive boner for Michael Bay (specifically The Rock) and don't hide it.

[The Fake Shemp]

Yeah, the game unabashedly revels in its likeness to MICHAEL BAY's 24: THE MOTION PICTURE: THE VIDEO GAME and I can't really fault it for that that because it's so much fun to play. I'm sorry, shooting from a helicopter at the World War II memorial, riding skimobiles, storming the White House and saving Burger King is fun.

Would I pay good money to see the movie? Probably not.

... but they're two different mediums.

[demi]

If -only- Nintendo games were half the fun and glamor MW2 is

[border]

Well when I say that you don't seem to like the premise, that sort of includes the basic gameplay ideas too.  I haven't touched MW2 and don't plan to but it seems like there's plenty to attack in terms of gameplay -- apparently the game is full of the infinitely respawning monster closets and such.  But to so continuously harp on an element that isn't integral (the story) makes it feel like you are just looking for something to hate on, and would otherwise find its faults acceptable if the setting or story was more to you liking.  Plausibility of narrative hasn't been much of an issue with other games that everyone has praised.

It also doesn't help that everyone agrees and just piles on......that everyone dismisses it as claptrap for fratboy bros......nor does it help that the entirety of the podcast seems to have been recorded under the pretense of "Now it is time to shit on every developer we perceive as having forsaken the PC."  Dragon Age gets some props, but pretty much every console-focused Bioware project is bashed thoroughly with very sweeping invectives like "Worst itemization of any RPG in the last decade".  I am entirely ignorant of the genre, but it can't really be that bad can it?

Which isn't to say that the opinions expressed are invalid, just that expressing them in the context and style here makes things seem suspect.  You get the sense that everyone is trying to one-up each other's righteous condemnation for the sake of camaraderie and not upsetting the herd.  There's no devil's advocate or supporter who is willing to address MW2 on its own terms  -- but perhaps that would be a good subject for the next Indefensible

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

I've hated plenty of WWII games, even though I dig WWII history, so premise had nothing to do with it as far as I'm concerned

And,  yet again, we've spent just as much time crapping all over other games without the "OW! You hit my tender spot!" or "Uh, um, I think you guys were being unfair..." responses, so MW2 fans must be extra-special-sensitive

Are MW2 fans the new Ninthings?

Seems so.

Shit game, pass, lol Infinity Ward, insert jank screenshot, etc.

You continue to miss the point and I'm pretty sure you're being intentionally irrational at this point.

I'm guessing you just don't want to get it, especially if most of people who disagree do not own or intend to own the game in question.  The problem isn't with the game, it is the unjustified 40 minute circlejerk hatefuck that you pretty much find at OA.  People are making this perfectly clear and your response barely differs from "I guess mw2 fans are just babies.  u mad?"

Chalk it up to angry egotism I guess.

[Van Cruncheon]

well, this isn't gonna be a confrontational podcast, because that isn't our style. i did point out a couple times that i felt that mw2's strength was in its multiplayer experience and that the story was as intentionally disposable as its single-player.

[Eel O'Brian]

i guess i just don't get it, then, because it wasn't a total circlejerk hatefuck as far as i am concerned

once again, i did say i enjoyed some of the levels, and that multiplayer just wasn't my bag so i couldn't criticize that part of the game (but understood why people like it), and robert did say he likes spec ops

we were unanimous in our opinions of the storyline, though, and i think the criticisms were legitimate and deserved - it's a condescending game

we've "hatefucked" other games in the past, and no one complained, and i've seen just as many similar criticisms right here on this very board, so i'm starting to catch a faint whiff of hypocrisy coming off all this backlash (we are well aware of our own)

[The Fake Shemp]

I don't think anyone disagrees that the story is stupid, just that the game itself is not story-driven, so it's not the game breaker you insinuate it to be. Like I said, is a story where I drive a skimobile, storm the White House and save the local Burger King in Northern Virginia going to win the Hugo Award?

I doubt it.

But it's fun to play, so big whoop.

p.s. if metal gear solid was fun to play (or when you can actually play it), i would not care about its stupid story either.

[Great Rumbler]

I just want to say that Gothic 3 was terribly unfun. One of the worst WRPGs I've ever played in recent years.