Author Topic: Avatar: Willco still hates it  (Read 126768 times)

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The Fake Shemp

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Re: Early consensus on Avatar: May be too awesome for some.
« Reply #360 on: December 18, 2009, 08:59:51 PM »
Guys, so what if it shares the same story, characters, plot, visuals and intricate details from other people's works - writing original screenplays is tough work!

spoiler (click to show/hide)
:greenshinobi
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ManaByte

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Re: Early consensus on Avatar: May be too awesome for some.
« Reply #361 on: December 18, 2009, 09:01:08 PM »
Guys, so what if it shares the same story, characters, plot, visuals and intricate details from other people's works - writing original screenplays is tough work!

spoiler (click to show/hide)
:greenshinobi
[close]


CBG

Re: Early consensus on Avatar: May be too awesome for some.
« Reply #362 on: December 18, 2009, 09:02:18 PM »
Willco and Cohen, take your respective fat ass and pedophile mustache to the 3d cinema and watch this film, then come back and tell me that it is not the "biggest" film ever made. The set pieces in this film blow away anything else ever put on film.

Computer generated graphics do not deserve to be referred to as set pieces. Ben Hur had set pieces.
野球

Solo

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Re: Early consensus on Avatar: May be too awesome for some.
« Reply #363 on: December 18, 2009, 09:02:25 PM »
Its too bad the characters werent better though. There were several scenes that should have been real rah-rah moments when you get behind the character and cheer, but they fell flat.

I will agree with Shinobi though on the action. Cameron's 12 year vacay obviously let him recharge like a motherfucker.

ManaByte

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Re: Early consensus on Avatar: May be too awesome for some.
« Reply #364 on: December 18, 2009, 09:02:38 PM »
Willco and Cohen, take your respective fat ass and pedophile mustache to the 3d cinema and watch this movie, then come back and tell me that it is not the "biggest" film ever made. The set pieces in this film blow away anything else ever put on film.

CBG

The Fake Shemp

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Re: Early consensus on Avatar: May be too awesome for some.
« Reply #365 on: December 18, 2009, 09:03:49 PM »
I don't know if I could handle watching a film that's better than Ferngully, dude.
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ManaByte

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Re: Early consensus on Avatar: May be too awesome for some.
« Reply #366 on: December 18, 2009, 09:04:38 PM »
Not even Citizen Kane can topple Ferngully. I don't see how Avatar could.
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The Fake Shemp

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Re: Early consensus on Avatar: May be too awesome for some.
« Reply #367 on: December 18, 2009, 09:21:18 PM »
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CajoleJuice

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Re: Early consensus on Avatar: May be too awesome for some.
« Reply #368 on: December 18, 2009, 09:24:45 PM »
Willco and Cohen, take your respective fat ass and pedophile mustache to the 3d cinema and watch this movie, then come back and tell me that it is not the "biggest" film ever made. The set pieces in this film blow away anything else ever put on film.

:rofl
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The Fake Shemp

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Re: Early consensus on Avatar: May be too awesome for some.
« Reply #369 on: December 18, 2009, 09:25:35 PM »
Don't laugh at Cohen's mustache, Cajole!

Willco, you're really nothing more than a glorified troll at this point.

Hey, your words - not mine!
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CajoleJuice

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Re: Early consensus on Avatar: May be too awesome for some.
« Reply #370 on: December 18, 2009, 09:27:02 PM »
Don't laugh at Cohen's mustache, Cajole!

It's ok, I have a terrorist beard.
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Solo

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Re: Early consensus on Avatar: Better than Ferngully.
« Reply #371 on: December 18, 2009, 09:28:49 PM »
I love how this thread is seemingly renamed every time I visit  :lol

BlueTsunami

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Re: Early consensus on Avatar: Better than Ferngully.
« Reply #372 on: December 18, 2009, 09:32:08 PM »
Willco and Cohen, take your respective fat ass and pedophile mustache to the 3d cinema and watch this movie, then come back and tell me that it is not the "biggest" film ever made. The set pieces in this film blow away anything else ever put on film.

Oh man, its the perfect storm of Green Shinobi'ism

:greenshinobi :greenshinobi :greenshinobi :greenshinobi :greenshinobi
:9

The Fake Shemp

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #373 on: December 18, 2009, 09:33:10 PM »
:greenshinobi :piss2
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Ichirou

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #374 on: December 18, 2009, 09:37:07 PM »
Jeffrey Wells at Hollywood Elsewhere is seriously talking about this movie as being a Best Picture nominee.  Before he had seen the movie, he had been one of its biggest detractors, saying Cameron had seemingly lost it and etc., etc., etc.

If a curmudgeon like him can be moved to publicly change his mind, I'm willing to give it a chance, ugly-looking blue cat-people aside.
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The Fake Shemp

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #375 on: December 18, 2009, 09:39:49 PM »
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Ichirou

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #376 on: December 18, 2009, 09:40:08 PM »
:lol
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Great Rumbler

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #377 on: December 18, 2009, 09:41:23 PM »
I wish Green Shinobi wasn't the film's biggest supporter since it makes it look worse by proxy. :-\
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Ichirou

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #378 on: December 18, 2009, 09:43:17 PM »
I wish Green Shinobi wasn't the film's biggest supporter since it makes it look worse by proxy. :-\

Why is it bad that Green Shinobi likes it?
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The Fake Shemp

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #379 on: December 18, 2009, 09:44:05 PM »
He is like Captain Hyperbole. Did you not read our discussion where he told us how King Kong was one of the greatest films of all-time, or how Muse is the greatest band of all-time?
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Ichirou

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #380 on: December 18, 2009, 09:47:24 PM »
All I know about him is the infamous "asian girlfriend got preggo, stole my rabbit" story.

EDIT: Which King Kong, the Peter Jackson one? Holy cow.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2009, 09:49:03 PM by Ichirou »
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Solo

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #381 on: December 18, 2009, 09:49:10 PM »
Avatar will get a Best Picture nom, Im sure of that. Will or or should it win? Of course not. Im still backing Inglourious Basterds in that race.

Great Rumbler

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #382 on: December 18, 2009, 09:53:24 PM »
Avatar will get a Best Picture nom, Im sure of that. Will or or should it win? Of course not. Im still backing Inglourious Basterds in that race.

With the increase of Best Picture nominees to ten, they'll definitely slide in some fan favorites that aren't the usual Oscar-bait.
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Solo

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #383 on: December 18, 2009, 09:56:03 PM »
Avatar will get a Best Picture nom, Im sure of that. Will or or should it win? Of course not. Im still backing Inglourious Basterds in that race.

With the increase of Best Picture nominees to ten, they'll definitely slide in some fan favorites that aren't the usual Oscar-bait.

That, and also James Cameron seems to have (very surprisingly, in my eyes) been welcomed back into the fold with open arms by critics.

Ichirou

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #384 on: December 18, 2009, 09:58:41 PM »
Why is that surprising?  I can't think of a single James Cameron movie that's been ravaged by critics.  The only thing I can remember is the whole "misogyny" discussion regarding True Lies, but even that one's rated 'fresh' according to Rotten Tomatoes.
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Bebpo

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #385 on: December 18, 2009, 09:59:22 PM »
I thought this movie was going to be a terrible movie about furries.  I knew nothing about it going in.

Generic plot and characters aside, it was a pretty good action film!  The last 30-40 mins was the best action we've seen in hollywood in a long time.  Nobody can direct action sequences anymore.  They're all crappy fast cutting hyper.  This was badass with mechs and dragons and tigers and guns and knives and punching tigers in the face.  The 3d was really great too and the CG was excellent.  Liked it!

The art style and story felt like James Cameron played FFVII-FFX and decided he wanted to make a movie like that and hired all the jrpg artists and writers from Japan to make his film with him.  The film felt kinda like an 80s stereotypical big action movie x 90s stereotypical jrpg.

Ichirou

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #386 on: December 18, 2009, 10:00:17 PM »
Square needs to make an Avatar RPG.

I'd play it.
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Solo

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #387 on: December 18, 2009, 10:00:45 PM »
Why is that surprising? 

His hilariously pompous appearance at the 1998 Acacemy Awards followed by exile led me to believe he might get more cold shoulders. Instead, the love fountain was simply replenished.

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #388 on: December 18, 2009, 10:01:27 PM »
Bebpo keeps the hype train rolling! :rock
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The Fake Shemp

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Solo

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #390 on: December 18, 2009, 10:04:14 PM »
It is kind of disheartening to think that Spielberg and Cameron are getting to be old men, and yet they are still the best action directors in the business. Doesnt leave me with a lot of hope for future action flicks. Even someone like Chris Nolan, who is talented in every other way, cant shoot action worth shit.

The Fake Shemp

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #391 on: December 18, 2009, 10:04:44 PM »
Quote from: Great Rumbler
Bebpo keeps the hype train rolling! :rock

Generic plot and characters aside, it was a pretty good action film!

You guys :lol

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Ichirou

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #392 on: December 18, 2009, 10:10:37 PM »
Ichirou, I'll catch you up to speed:

Since your departure Green Shinobi was annihilated by Boogie in a thread where he was in favor of the legalization of narcotics, voiced disapproval over an AIDS vaccine, called King Kong one of the best directed and most action packed films of all-time and also said the Peter Jackson remake was better than the original.

He also likes the latest Muse CD.

Also, James Cameron is the king of the world.

Just got through reading his posts in those threads.  That really is a clusterfuck of embarrassing opinions.  He should've known better than to argue with Boogie, though - I still remember Boogie annihilating Powerslave on the whole "The Armenian Genocide is just a MYTH, you guys!" some years back.
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Solo

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #393 on: December 18, 2009, 10:11:41 PM »
CGI ruined action.  Cameron and Spielberg cut their teeth on filming real crazy shit.  you have to know what you're doing for that to happen right.  CGI gives the director too much leeway in creating a scene, so they get lazy.  At least that is my take.

Definitely. Also, a LOT of the current crop of action movie directors got their start in music videos, and they have unfortunately carried over those "sensibilities" to movies.

Ichirou

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #394 on: December 18, 2009, 10:12:13 PM »
CGI ruined action.  Cameron and Spielberg cut their teeth on filming real crazy shit.  you have to know what you're doing for that to happen right.  CGI gives the director too much leeway in creating a scene, so they get lazy.  At least that is my take.

CGI ruined the latest Indy movie, so even someone as solid as Spielberg isn't immune to abusing it . The opening sequence with the obviously CGI prairie dogs should've been warning enough for anyone expecting a decent movie to leave the theater.
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OptimoPeach

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #395 on: December 18, 2009, 10:12:46 PM »
Alright, I'll admit that the CGI itself was pretty impressive and much more polished than what was shown in the trailers and whatnot. It's too bad everything else was just meh

The art style and story felt like James Cameron played FFVII-FFX and decided he wanted to make a movie like that and hired all the jrpg artists and writers from Japan to make his film with him.  The film felt kinda like an 80s stereotypical big action movie x 90s stereotypical jrpg.
:lol What?
hi5

Ichirou

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #396 on: December 18, 2009, 10:12:54 PM »
Boogie didn't annihilate me at all. You guys just went into that argument already agreeing with his point of view.

Bro, I'm not even against legalizing marijuana, but Boogie utterly destroyed every single argument you made with nothing but pure, solid factual evidence.
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Ichirou

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #397 on: December 18, 2009, 10:16:09 PM »
No, his argument was that if cops go into drug dealers' houses without guns drawn, they're probably going to get killed.
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Van Cruncheon

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #398 on: December 18, 2009, 10:18:06 PM »
duc

BobFromPikeCreek

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #399 on: December 18, 2009, 10:20:11 PM »
My dad called this one of the best movies he ever saw. I have concluded that I was conceived in fur suits.
zzzzz

The Fake Shemp

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #400 on: December 18, 2009, 10:20:59 PM »
Eh, I don't think Spielberg is that great of an action director. That said, he's a great director.

What Spielberg has (and Cameron too) is the ability to tie action to the narrative in a way that makes what you're seeing on the screen carry some kind of emotional weight and further the story along. I think a lot of directors simply come from a microscopic school of thought, and go out to film the most elaborate, frantic action scenes possible, without once thinking about how those shots can further the story along. We're an MTV generation; we want YouTube clips, not slow, meticulous set pieces setup by long stretches of tension.

I mean, I know younger people that think the chase sequence in the first half of Terminator 2 is boring. That's right, boring.

Perfect example of this is The Matrix. The original is incredible, and the Wachowski's don't waste a single action sequence that doesn't connect to or move the story along. The subway duel is fantastic because it marks a significant turning point in Neo's character arc, combining both well-choreographed action and a compelling story. The sequels blow - hard - because all they are is a series of disconnected action sequences.

I find the primary factor behind of all this is just what Solo said, that a lot of younger directors cut their teeth with music videos and try to bring those sensibilities to feature-length productions. The other factor is the short attention span of mainstream audiences.

We might think long, character-focused action sequences built up with long stretches of tension to be awesome (and it is), but I don't think we (as in myself, Ichirou, Solo, etc.) represent the mainstream at large.
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Flannel Boy

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #401 on: December 18, 2009, 10:21:45 PM »
My dad called this one of the best movies he ever saw. I have concluded that I was conceived in fur suits.

No wonder you became the Ice Truck Killer.

Ichirou

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #402 on: December 18, 2009, 10:22:07 PM »
And my argument was that one of your essential civil liberties should be the right to not have a gun pointed in your face on suspicion alone.

And we should be allowed to scream 'fire' in crowded theaters, too.  'Cuz, you know, free speech.
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CajoleJuice

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #403 on: December 18, 2009, 10:23:29 PM »
I mean, I know younger people that think the chase sequence in the first half of Terminator 2 is boring. That's right, boring.

How young are we talking here?
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The Fake Shemp

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #404 on: December 18, 2009, 10:24:46 PM »
Teenagers. When my sister's boyfriend (15) came over with his two friends, I was watching Terminator 2 and they kept going, "Man, I didn't know this movie was so boring."
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Ichirou

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #405 on: December 18, 2009, 10:27:16 PM »
Teenagers. When my sister's boyfriend (15) came over with his two friends, I was watching Terminator 2 and they kept going, "Man, I didn't know this movie was so boring."

I now know why you cry...but it is something I can never do. :(
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The Fake Shemp

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #406 on: December 18, 2009, 10:29:06 PM »
To be fair, I do think Cameron's movies are almost always too long...

... but to call the motorcycle/semi chase in Terminator 2 boring? Really?

That's when I realized that if I make it in Hollywood, I'm so fucked.
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fistfulofmetal

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #407 on: December 18, 2009, 10:30:33 PM »
hey guys. whats going on itt, LOL
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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #408 on: December 18, 2009, 10:53:02 PM »
Teenagers. When my sister's boyfriend (15) came over with his two friends, I was watching Terminator 2 and they kept going, "Man, I didn't know this movie was so boring."

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Barry Egan

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #409 on: December 18, 2009, 10:53:25 PM »
And my argument was that one of your essential civil liberties should be the right to not have a gun pointed in your face on suspicion alone.

Last post I'll make on that topic.

Avatar was fucking awesome, guys.

:greenshinobi     :greenshinobi     :greenshinobi    ~~~~G===8
sorry, I just hadn't had a chance yet.

fistfulofmetal

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #410 on: December 18, 2009, 10:57:12 PM »
about 16 more hours until i finally get to see this!
nat

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #411 on: December 18, 2009, 11:02:02 PM »
Indy 4 had some terrible CG.  My favorite was Leboof swinging on vines.  I was tolerating the movie until that point, then I just started doing other things and left it on in the background.

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #412 on: December 18, 2009, 11:05:00 PM »
CGI ruined action.  Cameron and Spielberg cut their teeth on filming real crazy shit.  you have to know what you're doing for that to happen right.  CGI gives the director too much leeway in creating a scene, so they get lazy.  At least that is my take.

CGI ruined the latest Indy movie, so even someone as solid as Spielberg isn't immune to abusing it . The opening sequence with the obviously CGI prairie dogs should've been warning enough for anyone expecting a decent movie to leave the theater.
My wife made we rewatch that with her. :-\  She made a good point...the film is very small in scale.  like the actual scale of everything was small in comparison to the other films.  Good to have you back :-*

I don't know if that's what ultimately killed it, but it just caused the whole movie to fell really closed off and low-budget. Where are the establishing shots? Where are the real world locations? It's like Spielberg agreed to do the movie, but only if he didn't have to leave the studio lot.
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TakingBackSunday

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #413 on: December 18, 2009, 11:12:46 PM »
I'm the king of the world.
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Third

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #414 on: December 18, 2009, 11:14:07 PM »
Oh wow, totally forgot about Ferngully. Loved that movie. It hasn't aged well, though. I just listened to a few songs and they're quite bad now.

The Fake Shemp

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #415 on: December 18, 2009, 11:57:47 PM »
True Lies has some awful dialogue. I think it's Cameron's most overrated flick.
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The Fake Shemp

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #416 on: December 18, 2009, 11:59:59 PM »
Cameron is a great visual storyteller, but he's a pretty mediocre to bad writer. I will agree with Cohen that he can write some memorable lines, but most of his dialogue is garbage. AV Club was correct with its assessment that his visuals and charismatic leads usually make up for his shortcomings as a writer.

He wrote Rambo: First Blood Part II, which is one of my favorite action flicks, but Sly gutted the hell out of his screenplay. When you read Cameron's original draft, it's easy to see why - the dialogue was really, really shitty. Cameron's Spider-Man treatment was pretty bad.

He is not a good writer.
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The Fake Shemp

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #417 on: December 19, 2009, 12:09:04 AM »
He uses catchy one-liners to mask the fact that he's not a very good writer. He's a good storyteller, but he's rarely the sole screenwriter on most of his films, and that's because he recognizes his limitations as a writer - unlike Lucas.
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Diunx

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #418 on: December 19, 2009, 12:41:58 AM »
Just came from the movie, it was fucking AWESOME! the effects where the best I have seen so far, the na'vi people felt so fucking real, their expressions and the animation was amazing, I can't fucking believe that some distinguished mentally-challenged fellows on gaf where comparing them with the fucking dr.who rejects of Distric 9 (I love that movie but the effects cannot be compare to the ones in Avatar).

The 3d effect was very well done, this was my first 3d movie but every trailer before the movie was in 3d and it was shit like a toy wagon rolling in front of you or the fucking Alice in gothland cat coming at you, in Avatar you forget that you are watching a 3d movie everything blends in perfectly and feels really natural.

The theather was packed, there were people sitting on the floor and shit, and everyone was cheering and clapping especially during the final fucking epic battle
spoiler (click to show/hide)
when Neytiri came ryding the giant panther thing and before that when Jake came to the tree of souls with the giant motherfucking banshee
[close]
.

Can't wait to watch this again, I didn't like my date thought :( she was nice and all but I didn't find her attractive, her cousin on the other hand :drool but she went with the boyfriend :'(

Also I hold my urine in for the duration of the movie, when I went to the bathroom it was fucking epic.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2009, 12:57:20 AM by Diunx »
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Purple Filth

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Re: Avatar: Better than Ferngully, Pocahantas and some weird comics.
« Reply #419 on: December 19, 2009, 12:59:32 AM »
GS's posts are like a crack head telling you that crack is the best thing ever created.

Will check this movie out though, just dont know when yet.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2009, 01:03:25 AM by Purple Filth »