Meme Machine Memorial Thread of Things You Saw on Reddit

[Mupepe]

Maybe I'm just used to all the racism in the South.  But it's thrown around by older guys towards young folks all the time.  Including white supervisors to black dudes at work.

I dunno.  I know the connection (American History X "THIS ONE'S FOR YOU, BOY") but I guess they make a bigger deal out of it outside the South?  Dunno.  It always seemed like the lightest of racial names.

[Phoenix Dark]

There are simply certain things that a member of one race can't say to members of another race; they may even have harmless, spur-of-the-moment intentions but some words are simply too dipped in racist history. I'm not talking about the n-word, that seems like a pretty obvious line in the sand (well for most people). Words like boy, uppity, or yellow for instance

[Dickie Dee]

Hmm...a term used to emasculate a man and the belief that black males are lesser men.

No connection there!

[Mupepe]

How about "You seem a little uppity.  You yellow, boy?"

[The Fake Shemp]

I'm sorry. There are obvious terms and racial slurs that are meant to be used in a derogatory manner. Don't we have enough racial slurs without trying to state that a term that was used to emasculate (is someone referring to a man as young and inexperience or feminine not been a long running insult throughout history?) is now racist.

Everything in context can be racist, that doesn't mean the phrase itself is racist.

[The Fake Shemp]

Hmm...a term used to emasculate a man and the belief that black males are lesser men.

No connection there!

So it's only racist when used to insult black men, but just insulting when used to insult other men. Got it.

[Phoenix Dark]

Hmm...a term used to emasculate a man and the belief that black men don't deserve equal status.

No connection there!

clearly that wasn't racist during slavery!

that's a pretty steep slippery slope Willco

[Stoney Mason]

Maybe I'm just used to all the racism in the South.  But it's thrown around by older guys towards young folks all the time.  Including white supervisors to black dudes at work.

I dunno.  I know the connection (American History X "THIS ONE'S FOR YOU, BOY") but I guess they make a bigger deal out of it out of the South?  Dunno.  It always seemed like the lightest of racial names.

Everything is a bigger deal in the South mainly because that's the home base where a lot of the nasty racism and prejudicial behavior still happens.

Not every person who uses it, intent is to start burning crosses but in a work environment any person with a brain probably shouldn't be referring to people as "boy" unless he is damn good friends with the person in question.

[Mupepe]

Okay, let's just clear this up, if I was in the white guy's shoes in the video, I would have called him boy too.  I SAID IT!

[The Fake Shemp]

The point I'm trying to make is calling a man "boy" is insulting in general. I would not be happy if someone said it to me, and it's not because I'm secretly black.

[Dickie Dee]

Everything in context can be racist, that doesn't mean the phrase itself is racist.

but using it in the same context as when it has racial overtones is

[Mandark]

Willco's doing an homage to the porch monkey bit from Clerks 2, maybe?

[Mupepe]

Maybe I'm just used to all the racism in the South.  But it's thrown around by older guys towards young folks all the time.  Including white supervisors to black dudes at work.

I dunno.  I know the connection (American History X "THIS ONE'S FOR YOU, BOY") but I guess they make a bigger deal out of it out of the South?  Dunno.  It always seemed like the lightest of racial names.

Everything is a bigger deal in the South mainly because that's the home base where a lot of the nasty racism and prejudicial behavior still happens.

Not every person who uses it, intent is to start burning crosses but in work environment any person with a brain probably shouldn't be referring to people as "boy" unless he is damn good friends with the person in question.

But I'm saying it has never been a big deal in my experience in the South.  It's thrown around commonly here.  

[Stoney Mason]

Okay, let's just clear this up, if I was in the white guy's shoes in the video, I would have called him boy too.  I SAID IT!

For what its worth I'm talking in the abstract. I didn't even watch that video and don't really care to. I have no real rooting interest in two jackballs fighting on a bus other than derision at both of them.

[The Fake Shemp]

but using it in the same context as when it has racial overtones is

"Boy" is used as insult. To men of all color. Just because black people got to hear it bandied about a lot by white slave owners that thought of them as subservient individuals, as they were purchased and bartered like property, does not mean it's racist. It's just insulting. It wasn't created to insult slaves for being black, it was used as a long-running term to emasculate men in general. It should be left at that.

[Robo]

I didn't even know it was racist.

Plus I find it weird that all the racial slurs for arabs is basically the same for black people except they all start with something involving sand.

Our women are called Batman though, lucky bitches.

Sand boy!

[The Fake Shemp]

Racial slurs for Arabs on the part of white people are just lazy, to be honest.

[Mandark]

Take a step back.

You're arguing that the pejorative's origins in slavery is evidence against it carrying a racial subtext.  Think, mang.

[Stoney Mason]

But I'm saying it has never been a big deal in my experience in the South.  It's thrown around commonly here.  

I was raised and grew up in the South and I don't know a single black person who wouldn't be annoyed at being called "boy" in most contexts outside of joking ones.

Like I said my comment has nothing to do with that video. If two people are acting ignorant or if one person instigates something then those are separate contexts.

[The Fake Shemp]

No, I'm saying its origins are prior to slavery. Insulting one's manhood has been a long-running insult throughout history. It did not happen during slavery. It's not even used as a description of race!

[Dickie Dee]

but using it in the same context as when it has racial overtones is

"Boy" is used as insult. To men of all color. Just because black people got to hear it bandied about a lot by white slave owners that thought of them as subservient individuals, as they were purchased and bartered like property, does not mean it's racist. It's just insulting. It should be left at that.

I don't know why you think it's context is exclusively slave-related, or just a vestige of when black people were property. It was used in the 20th century by whites to reinforce their superior status.

[Mupepe]

But I'm saying it has never been a big deal in my experience in the South.  It's thrown around commonly here.  

I was raised and grew up in the South and I don't know a single black person who wouldn't be annoyed at being called "boy" in most contexts outside of joking ones.

Like I said my comment has nothing to do with that video. If two people are acting ignorant or if one person instigates something then those are separate contexts.

Maybe I just don't know enough black dudes

Oh well, I was really looking forward to calling everyone boy when I get older.  Damn.

I really don't think this term is common knowledge for a lot of white folks.  Older white guys just tend to like saying boy.  

This affirms my stance that communication is necessary for any relationship.  Including race relations.  Let's sit down and talk about this, guys.

[The Fake Shemp]

Cant you just agree that boy is also used as a racist remark on top of the fact that its also used as a general insult to men across all languages and cultures. In the Netherlands and Poland these words dont have any racist connotation but they still get used as insults.

I already said that any word can be racist in context. My argument was that does not necessarily make it racist. There are obvious racial slurs, created and used to refer to specific races or individuals in a derogatory manner. Then there's everything else.

But that's the politically correct society we live in.

[Phoenix Dark]

but using it in the same context as when it has racial overtones is

"Boy" is used as insult. To men of all color. Just because black people got to hear it bandied about a lot by white slave owners that thought of them as subservient individuals, as they were purchased and bartered like property, does not mean it's racist. It's just insulting. It should be left at that.

The problem is that this is not true. While calling a grown man a "boy" can be an insult regardless of races involved, it takes a more sinister and historically racist turn when used against a black man by a white man. As I said before, it's not even up for debate.

Sure some white people use it in a harmless manner, but as Stoney said in most cases they know exactly what they're saying. For instance, one of my friends is from Switzerland. If we're playing basketball sometimes he'll say something along the lines of "I'm too hot, you can touch me boiiii" like Flava Flav. I've known him for years, there's nothing racial about his intentions.

On the other hand I've been to Howell, Michigan a couple times and had the term leveled at me with a pretty blatant racial intention.

[Stoney Mason]

Maybe I just don't know enough black dudes

Oh well, I was really looking forward to calling everyone boy when I get older.  Damn.

I really don't think this term is common knowledge for a lot of white folks.  Older white guys just tend to like saying boy.  

This affirms my stance that communication is necessary for any relationship.  Including race relations.  Let's sit down and talk about this, guys.

While we are very far beyond the bad old days, the South is sort of a different world from my experience. A lot of that stuff has been buried over but scratch right beneath it just a little bit and all that old bubbling shit comes right to the surface. I've lived in California and I've lived in the "South"  and comparatively its nite and day which is not to say that any place is perfect of course.

edit: And for what its worth not all the blame should go on whitey. I've seen a lot of negative ideas and non-constructive mindsets from black people themselves in the South especially.

[The Fake Shemp]

Maurice agrees with me that term is used to emasculate and that even in context of white-to-black use, it has to do with power and class, not race. This case should be closed!

[Mupepe]

Well I think a lot of people here have heard their fathers and grandfathers use the term and they don't associate it with a race issue.  Maybe their father did.  But they pick it up from habit from them without the prejudiced nature.

My dad was very, very Southern.  He has a black daughter and loved her dearly.  But he picked up a lot of things.  He understood nigger is racist.  But nigger rig is a common term he picked up from my grandfather and he used to use it.  He wasn't racist.  The South is just... fucked up.

[The Fake Shemp]

And it shall rise again.

[Dickie Dee]

No one is saying that an "atta' boy", or "boy am i tired" is racist, when it's used in place of Mister, Sir, etc. as an anti-honorific it is.

[Phoenix Dark]

Maurice agrees with me that term is used to emasculate and that even in context of white-to-black use, it has to do with power and class, not race. This case should be closed!

No, I'm saying there are racial connotations when a white person uses the term against a black man, but I don't believe every white person who uses it has a racial intention in mind. I'm agreeing with Stoney saying usually, white people know exactly what they're doing/saying when it's uttered, and it's not hard to tell.

[The Fake Shemp]

I'm saying if you directly refer to a man as a boy, that's not even racist - it's insulting. I will agree that in context it can be used to denigrate social standing, but that even then it is not used as a slur against a specific race or even multitude of races!

It's basically an aristocratic term used to insult anyone - even other white people.

[Dickie Dee]

If it was a common term of disrespect between men of any color...it would be commonly used as a term of disrepect by men of any color.

The fact that it isn't and was only commonly used by whites towards blacks they deemed inferior gives it it's racial overtones.

[The Fake Shemp]

If it was a common term of disrespect between men of any color...it would be commonly used as a term of disrepect by men of any color.

The fact that this particular insult was only commonly used by whites towards blacks they deemed inferior gives it it's racial overtones.

Maybe this was because the vast majority of slaves were black, and most of the aristocratic and wealthy members of society were white? No?

[Dickie Dee]

If it was a common term of disrespect between men of any color...it would be commonly used as a term of disrepect by men of any color.

The fact that this particular insult was only commonly used by whites towards blacks they deemed inferior gives it it's racial overtones.

Maybe this was because the vast majority of slaves were black, and most of the aristocratic and wealthy members of society were white? No?

Why are you completely ignoring the Jim Crow era?

[Phoenix Dark]

Mandark what do you think about this argument

To better illustrate what term "boy" actually means whenever it's spoken, let's do a little thought experiment.  Suppose a group of young, white, heterosexual men playing basketball.  They are all friends and play basketball together frequently.  Speaking from my own experience in this type of setting, here's a list of terms and actions we would find at a typical game:

    * cigarillo, taco
    * pussy
    * bitch
    * grabbing another players crotch or butt to distract him (or other homoerotic acts), bringing about the above "cigarillo" reference
    * if a player attempts a dunk and fails, a chorus of "white men can't do that"
    * after an awkward shot, a player can be told he shoots "like a girl"

There are no women, no homosexuals, no members of other races anywhere around.  These men are friends, and they use these terms with each other every time they play basketball - most likely every time they are together.  Are they inappropriate or not?  Are these terms only inappropriate when spoken directly to people who fit into those categories, or are these words, even in the absence of anyone to whom they can be "legitimately" addressed, still somehow homophobic, sexist and racist?

Calling a grown man "boy" is a racist term.  It just is, whether a black man is somehow involved or not, whether public or private.  It came into common usage through its application in the slave trade, and when used by two white men or two black men or whomever, it is just another way that an insult is used affectionately - something we do all the time.  And there's really nothing wrong with that, so long as the insult doesn't perpetuate and strengthen a legacy of oppression and violence toward members of a particular group.

If you're finding that you can't use a bunch of words that were "ok" when you were a kid, too bad.  I'm not able to use a whole bunch of the terms we spoke in my majority-Hispanic birthplace.  But I'm ok with that, because I've grown up and now understand what they really mean and do when someone says them, no matter how innocent the usage may be.  There's a lot of words in the English language; it shouldn't be too hard to learn some new ones.

http://www.cogitamusblog.com/2008/04/dont-call-me-a.html

[Mupepe]

i like the south park episode on the word cigarillo.  sums up my thoughts on most taboo words.

[MCD]

WILLCO MAH BOOOOI

[Ganhyun]

wow @ all this going on. But I can say that I've mainly heard yellow to be another way to call someone a coward.

[Himu]

But I'm saying it has never been a big deal in my experience in the South.  It's thrown around commonly here.  

I was raised and grew up in the South and I don't know a single black person who wouldn't be annoyed at being called "boy" in most contexts outside of joking ones.

Like I said my comment has nothing to do with that video. If two people are acting ignorant or if one person instigates something then those are separate contexts.

Indeed.

Boy isn't racially charged as it once was, like Willco says, but for black people in the south it can still have racial connotation.

[Mupepe]

Ya'll just sensitive.

[Himu]

@ the word "boy" being racist in the US. Is "girl" racist too? When used by old white women in power towards black maids?

I mean I could understand "boi" being racist but plain old "boy"?

So glad I was not raised in the US.

You all mah bois here

The word itself isn't racist, it was the use.

[The Fake Shemp]

If it was a common term of disrespect between men of any color...it would be commonly used as a term of disrepect by men of any color.

The fact that this particular insult was only commonly used by whites towards blacks they deemed inferior gives it it's racial overtones.

Maybe this was because the vast majority of slaves were black, and most of the aristocratic and wealthy members of society were white? No?

Why are you completely ignoring the Jim Crow era?

Again, when the majority of the poorest residents were black and the wealthy were white? Are you ignoring California, where similar terminology is used to describe day laborers?

This is a word used to denigrate social standing, not race. The economics of our society make this a race issue, not the term itself. Again, because it can be used AND HAS BEEN USED to insult white people and other people of color. I can't really do that with the dreaded "N-Word" or "cotton picker" or what have you - they have only one use applicable to a specific race.

[The Fake Shemp]

Jesus Christ, Himu. I could call you a hamburger and with the right inflection in my voice, it could sound racist.

Shut up, boy.

[Mandark]

But seriously, I'm kinda gobsmacked that Willco's pretending there's no racial connotation to the word in the US, when directed by a white person at a black one.

It's a cliche to have the stock Racist Southern Sheriff to establish what they are by having them call a black character "boy".  In the Heat of the Night, Chiefs (John Goodman aims it at Lando Calrissian!), etc.  Authors do this because they know the audience will understand the implication.

And yeah, it's pretty regional, and yeah, it depends on context.  All words depend on context.  No word "inherently" means anything.  People share a precise, specific meaning for some words while others will carry a wider range of uses and connotations for those hearing them.

So while it's true that boy can be said with no ill intent, or with no racial intent even when it's an insult, it still carries a racial charge for a lot of people (including, I'd guess, the vast majority of black males in the US).  I'm not sure I know any black guys who wouldn't be pissed if a white guy they didn't know called them that, and I know a few who would go complete batshit.

[Himu]

Jesus Christ, Himu. I could call you a hamburger and with the right inflection in my voice, it could sound racist.

Uh...

You must be kidding me.

[Great Rumbler]

Boy, I'm getting really tired of this argument!

[Brehvolution]

By all means, please do.

[Great Rumbler]

[youtube=560,345]xbVifPkbYsk[/youtube]

[Mupepe]

[Mupepe]

[Mupepe]

[Mandark]

PD:  I don't think I buy it.  The other pejoratives he lists generally aren't used in a neutral or unironically positive way, just as pejoratives.  So even without women or gay people around, the meaning of the word is pretty well understood.

Boy, OTOH, has several different meanings ranging from endearment to disparagement.  When a guy calls his friends fegs he's doing the "I'm messin with you, brah" bit.  When he calls them "my boys" it's just open affection; he's not using it as an ironic insult.

OTOOH, white guys calling each other distinguished black fellows because it's heeeelarious needs to stop.  Not cause it's offensive, but cause it's such self-congratulatory transgressive non-humor.

[Stoney Mason]

[youtube=560,345]xbVifPkbYsk[/youtube]

"We're focusing on younger women because most older women already know this stuff."


 

[Phoenix Dark]

It's a word I rarely hear today in reference to anyone, black white whatever. I can honestly say the majority of times I've heard the word happened when I was young, from my grandmothers ("boy have you lost your mind?").,  and always when I was acting dumb. In regular day to day life I rarely hear it.

Honestly in terms of racial connotations, the ones I hear the most revolve around acting white (being smart), acting black (being rambunctious), listening to white music, white men can't jump, etc. It takes me aback every time regardless of which race says it due to the disgusting undercurrents.

[Mupepe]

http://i47.tinypic.com/2crufya.jpg

Taboo words

[cool breeze]

I didn't even know it was racist.

Plus I find it weird that all the racial slurs for arabs is basically the same for black people except they all start with something involving sand.

Our women are called Batman though, lucky bitches.

this is so true lol

I'm persian and it's usually sand nicca, terrorist, and things of that sort.  The best I've heard is Jawa, but that was from some TV show.

I do like farci slurs for other races, though.  The literal translation of what I've seen persian people call indians is "smelly people", and they say this stuff sitting right next to a bunch of Indians.  For black people it's "burnt people" or "burnt black", I'm a bit fuzzy on all the terms.

btw, I've heard ninja, not batman, for women.

[Mandark]

PD:  I've got a (black) friend who designated some point (I think in southern VA) as "the new Mason-Dixon line" with one of the major criteria being when the white residents feel comfortable calling him "boy".  The impression I get is that it's a very, very regional thing and even then not near as common as it was.  Even in the Appalachia, where people can be racist as fuck, you don't really hear it.


Most poular generic term for Arabs among the military seems to be "Hadji".  If they're going by Johnny Quest, then it's not even the right ethnic group.

[The Fake Shemp]

Yeah, I never understood Hadji, myself. Maybe because of the turban?

[Diunx]

Boy, I'm getting really tired of this argument!

Who are you calling boy, kid?

[Great Rumbler]

Boy, I'm getting really tired of this argument!

Who are you calling boy, kid?

You talking to me, short stuff?