Halo: Reach

[drew]

i think it goes without saying that this will be the biggest letdown of 2010 this side of zelda on wii, bungie has sucked shit this entire generation, so dont get too hyped when you read that article

[Bebpo]

I don't like MP because I feel like it doesn't have an ending point where I can say "ok, I beat it.  Now I can start playing a different game that I want to play".  Instead it's just nonstop fun and I could waste days/weeks/years simply playing it to no end.  I can't count the hours I put into counterstrike with friends as a teen.  It's fun, but I'd rather experience more types of experiences than one experience over and over. 

I prefer defined stopping points in games.  I mainly play games for the start -> middle -> end experience with level design and boss fights and such.  It's why my favorite genre are action games, rpgs and platformers.  It's also why I'm not big on sandbox games usually and why I hate MMOs with a passion.  

[Howard Alan Treesong]

L4D is co-op, so I love it!

I hate competitive MP, it can go fuck itself

L4D's versus mode is totally awesome though.

...L4D has a versus mode? Not being sarcastic...it does? Really?

[Stoney Mason]

I don't like MP because I feel like it doesn't have an ending point where I can say "ok, I beat it.  Now I can start playing a different game that I want to play".  Instead it's just nonstop fun and I could waste days/weeks/years simply playing it to no end.  I can't count the hours I put into counterstrike with friends as a teen.  It's fun, but I'd rather experience more types of experiences than one experience over and over. 

Hmmm....

What I find is that playing a lot of MP stops me from playing a lot of mediocre sp games which is what I would be doing if I wasn't playing the MP game. For me it just comes down to fun. In my limited amount of time, I want to maximize the fun experience in that time. So while a big MP game does tend to limit some of the single player gaming I do, I still find time to play the good games I want. I just find that I've become more discriminatory about what I consider a good single player game and what I want to invest my time into. If a single player game doesn't grab me or seem geniunely quite good, I stop. I have a shorter attention span as I get older as a gamer. If that shit isn't grabbing me, then it's gone.

[Beezy]

I do not and have never enjoyed PVP or Vs gameplay!

Not even when everyone playing are personal friends?  That's what got me loving Halo-- 6-12 player LAN matches.

yeah, I don't like PVP or Vs at all in any genre, I also don't like any sort of professional sports. competition is boring!

what the hell

[Howard Alan Treesong]

I do not and have never enjoyed PVP or Vs gameplay!

Not even when everyone playing are personal friends?  That's what got me loving Halo-- 6-12 player LAN matches.

yeah, I don't like PVP or Vs at all in any genre, I also don't like any sort of professional sports. competition is boring!

what the hell

I don't think it's interesting to watch two things fight each other! that's all

[Eel O'Brian]

i'm almost there, with the exception of the battlefield games (i like them because they're filled with "hahaha did you see that shit" moments moreso than any chest-thumping)

[drew]

I don't think it's interesting to watch two things fight each other! that's all

if you dont find that bug battles site at least mildly interesting im afraid im going to have to put you on ignore

[bork]

L4D is co-op, so I love it!

I hate competitive MP, it can go fuck itself

L4D's versus mode is totally awesome though.

...L4D has a versus mode? Not being sarcastic...it does? Really?

Yeah.  I'm not too big on it.  One side plays as normal; the other team is randomly chosen to be various the "boss" zombies.  I'd love it if there was a variation where it's standard deathmatch WITH the zombie hordes running around, like in RE5 Versus.  Just tone down their speed to make it more fair.

[Sho Nuff]

I'm playing ODST for the first time...blech this is just awful 

It's so cheap-looking.

[bork]

I'm playing ODST for the first time...blech this is just awful 

It's so cheap-looking.

ODST is one game where it's hard to go back to after the annihilation that is MW2.

[Bebpo]

I'm playing ODST for the first time...blech this is just awful 

It's so cheap-looking.

The opening is the worst because you're in the hub.  The hub parts are pretty bad but the levels are good.  There are some really nice looking locations throughout the campaign.  I agree with the IGN review that gave it a 9 or 10 in graphics despite the old low-poly engine because the art is just that good.  Some really gorgeous parts and the cutscenes look as long as they don't take their helmets off (bungie can't do human faces)

[duckman2000]

i'm almost there, with the exception of the battlefield games (i like them because they're filled with "hahaha did you see that shit" moments moreso than any chest-thumping)

Pretty much. Not that I'd say no to a Ghost Recon or R6V match, but I'm definitely becoming more and more drawn to games of that sort. Although in fairness to Halo, that is something those games can to some extent actually provide. I don't like Halo MP much at all, but there's entertainment to be had by way of vehicles and chain explosions. It's a shame I haven't been able to get past the quarter-screen reticles and insane damage tolerances, because blowing up vehicles with other vehicles is fun.

As for Reach, I have no faith in Bungie at this point. Halo 2 would have been a disappointment even without that idiotic E3 SP demo blunder, I didn't think Halo 3 was anything all too special and whatever great it had was neutralized by also having the worst FPS level ever, and ODST didn't really have any of the hyped strengths and instead felt like a few deleted scenes strung together by a shitty story. Reach could be awesome, but I'm not going to fall for anything Bungie claims, about the tech or the game overall.

I agree with the IGN review that gave it a 9 or 10 in graphics despite the old low-poly engine because the art is just that good.  Some really gorgeous parts and the cutscenes look as long as they don't take their helmets off (bungie can't do human faces)

You have got to be shitting me. There is a sterile hub world, some shitty cityscapes and the odd natural environment from Halo 2. The skyboxes are nice, but that's about all it's got going for it. And no game with that many graphical issues, those damned faces, alien vehicles and weapons that look like exotic pipes, and shitty looking rhinorillas should be awarded a near perfect score in graphics, not in Fall 2009. Fuck no.

Most comical of all is that the game has won awards for the Lifetime Movie Network score. Poor Jesper Kyd.

[maxy]

The average person doesn't give a shit about SP.

You are wrong,hardcore forum nerds don't care about SP.

I think some people here are greatly underestimating SP campaign mode in multiplayer enabled games.People would just go meh,multiplayer only,pass,not to mention that the whole marketing scheme would collapse,no scripted events to show,no cutscenes,no controversy,just a bunch of dudes running around with floating names.The winning combo is a good SP and MP.
And there is also a question of price,people will pay 60$ for SP,but for MP only...nooo

MAG will be released shortly and watch it flop harder than Haze. 

[brawndolicious]

Luckily for MS they are up against CoD: Vietnam and not MW3 this year.

It's rumored that Killzone 3 will also come out this year.  That, Halo, and a Treyarch call of duty will make the fanboy wars quite insane.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

Given how Killzone 2 took fucking forever, that is hard to believe.

[Stoney Mason]

The average person doesn't give a shit about SP.

You are wrong,hardcore forum nerds don't care about SP.

I think some people here are greatly underestimating SP campaign mode in multiplayer enabled games.People would just go meh,multiplayer only,pass,not to mention that the whole marketing scheme would collapse,no scripted events to show,no cutscenes,no controversy,just a bunch of dudes running around with floating names.The winning combo is a good SP and MP.
And there is also a question of price,people will pay 60$ for SP,but for MP only...nooo

MAG will be released shortly and watch it flop harder than Haze. 

This post is full of truth.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

I agree with maxy.  My casual gaming friends who were big into Halo would use SP to sharpen their MP craft.

As for Killzone, if control issues killed the 2nd (among other things), I can't not believe that there won't be retooling and revamping of the engine.  Late 2011, I could see, but this year?  Naw, unless they want to release a complete mess of a game.  Maybe Resistance 3.

[Stoney Mason]

I agree with maxy.  My casual gaming friends who were big into Halo would use SP to sharpen their MP craft.

As for Killzone, if control issues killed the 2nd (among other things), I can't not believe that there won't be retooling and revamping of the engine.  Late 2011, I could see, but this year?  Naw, unless they want to release a complete mess of a game.  Maybe Resistance 3.

There were rumours of a Killzone 3 this fall but I'd be somewhat skeptical of that. Especially with all the competition this fall in the genre. I don't think fixing the control issues would be a major time issue but generating the art assests and the actual game in that time frame would be what would make it not feasible.

Resistance 3 most likely will be annouced relatively soon and slated for a fall release since the last one came out in Fall 2008.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

I agree with maxy.  My casual gaming friends who were big into Halo would use SP to sharpen their MP craft.

As for Killzone, if control issues killed the 2nd (among other things), I can't not believe that there won't be retooling and revamping of the engine.  Late 2011, I could see, but this year?  Naw, unless they want to release a complete mess of a game.  Maybe Resistance 3.

There were rumours of a Killzone 3 this fall but I'd be somewhat skeptical of that. Especially with all the competition this fall in the genre. I don't think fixing the control issues would be a major time issue but generating the art assests and the actual game in that time frame would be what would make it not feasible.

Resistance 3 most likely will be annouced relatively soon and slated for a fall release since the last one came out in Fall 2008.

I just assumed that given the molasses like speed of Guerrilla developing the Killzone 2 engine that it would take forever to redesign the controls for Killzone 3, plus making other changes.

Resistance 3 for Fall 2010 is possible and probable.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

The average person doesn't give a shit about SP.

You are wrong,hardcore forum nerds don't care about SP.

I think some people here are greatly underestimating SP campaign mode in multiplayer enabled games.People would just go meh,multiplayer only,pass,not to mention that the whole marketing scheme would collapse,no scripted events to show,no cutscenes,no controversy,just a bunch of dudes running around with floating names.The winning combo is a good SP and MP.
And there is also a question of price,people will pay 60$ for SP,but for MP only...nooo

MAG will be released shortly and watch it flop harder than Haze. 

Stardock released some awesome stats last year: http://www.stardock.com/press/Reports/Stardock2009.pdf

The money quote is on Page 12. "Demigod's single player experience, while decent, did not get anywhere near the care that the Internet multiplayer experience did. Despite this, only 23% of people who have purchased Demigod have ever even attempted to logon to play Internet multiplayer."

Another similarly horrifying stat is the fact that only about 30% of players who start a SP campaign finish even a single playthrough on any difficulty.

[Bebpo]

The average person doesn't give a shit about SP.

You are wrong,hardcore forum nerds don't care about SP.

I think some people here are greatly underestimating SP campaign mode in multiplayer enabled games.People would just go meh,multiplayer only,pass,not to mention that the whole marketing scheme would collapse,no scripted events to show,no cutscenes,no controversy,just a bunch of dudes running around with floating names.The winning combo is a good SP and MP.
And there is also a question of price,people will pay 60$ for SP,but for MP only...nooo

MAG will be released shortly and watch it flop harder than Haze. 

Stardock released some awesome stats last year: http://www.stardock.com/press/Reports/Stardock2009.pdf

The money quote is on Page 12. "Demigod's single player experience, while decent, did not get anywhere near the care that the Internet multiplayer experience did. Despite this, only 23% of people who have purchased Demigod have ever even attempted to logon to play Internet multiplayer."

Another similarly horrifying stat is the fact that only about 30% of players who start a SP campaign finish even a single playthrough on any difficulty.

That actually sounds about right.  You have to realize that a lot of people start a game and never finish it.  I'd say probably the majority of people in general.

[Eel O'Brian]

yeah, i don't finish many games

sometimes i just feel that, although i enjoyed the game, i've had enough and am ready to move on to something else

[Stoney Mason]

Stardock released some awesome stats last year: http://www.stardock.com/press/Reports/Stardock2009.pdf

The money quote is on Page 12. "Demigod's single player experience, while decent, did not get anywhere near the care that the Internet multiplayer experience did. Despite this, only 23% of people who have purchased Demigod have ever even attempted to logon to play Internet multiplayer."

Another similarly horrifying stat is the fact that only about 30% of players who start a SP campaign finish even a single playthrough on any difficulty.

It depends on the game somewhat. For instance some COD 4 stats.

Some other interesting stats were also revealed regarding the Xbox 360 community. 71.1% (7,111,508 people) have completed F.N.G., the game's first mission. That means that 28.9% of the people who played Call of Duty 4 either didn't finish the first level before turning the game off or played it solely in multiplayer modes. 68.8% (6,886,509 people) have completed the Cargo Ship mission. 46.5% (5,654,643 people) have beaten the game on any difficulty. Only 2.8% (283,632 people) completed Airplane on the Veteran difficulty.

Although indeed a lot of people never finish games. Especially as the game length increases which is arguably one of the reasons we see shorter games. Why create a massive playthrough and stretch yourself thin on quality when a lot of people aren't finishing games. Better to polish a shorter game.

[brawndolicious]

Given how Killzone 2 took fucking forever, that is hard to believe.

God of War took half a decade to develop and was probably the most impressive looking PS2 game when it released but it's sequel, which was a lot better, took only two years.  Guerrilla Games has a lot of people working there so I could see them making a whole sequel in a year.  Especially if a lot of the improvements are new features and gametypes that they were saving for the sequel.

And the controller lag was intentional to give it a feeling of weight.  The problem is that 166 ms is a lot in an fps so I think they should have put the lag on the left stick and removed it from everything else, including the trigger button.

[Sho Nuff]

The ODST cutscene animation is awful, just awful. Their facial rigs are extremely bad and the actual body movements are terrible. You don't have to use motion capture for everything, but if you're going to do stuff by hand at least make it look not embarrassing.

Considering the budget that Bungie has, it's unacceptable.

Game is getting better after that AWFUL hub. I wandered around aimlessly for 15 minutes before I realized I forgot to kill someone and that wasn't triggering the next objective. Tsc tsc

[Sho Nuff]

Given how Killzone 2 took fucking forever, that is hard to believe.

And the controller lag was intentional to give it a feeling of weight.  The problem is that 166 ms is a lot in an fps so I think they should have put the lag on the left stick and removed it from everything else, including the trigger button.

Have they ever come out to officially say this? Because that is absolutely insane.

[Kestastrophe]

The worst was the name of the control fix that they patched in that made the game actually playable. It was called "high precision mode" or something, lol

[Stoney Mason]

The worst was the name of the control fix that they patched in that made the game actually playable. It was called "high precision mode" or something, lol

The worst was how you couldn't mention it on GAF unless you wanted thousands of fanboys to descend upon you even though it was pretty clear that most normal players at least had some issues with the controls in that game.

Not every FPS has to control like COD or Halo but handicapping player control in the name of "realism" or "immersion" and then not expecting people to say anything is a bit much. Also yes, the game indeed launched with a good degree of input lag which a later patch was supposed to have improved on.

[cool breeze]

I didn't have a big problem with Killzone 2 controls until multiplayer.  Single player (ignoring the awful last battle) was mostly you guys taking territory from space nazi so I didn't care much about turning around fast or things like that.  Multiplayer and that last battle were basically arenas where you did need to worry about getting attacked from every direction and that turn speed was just painful.  That doesn't really have to do with the lag/delay to everything and I'm just speaking in general.  Also, the game should have really had a 180 spin button.

[Stoney Mason]

Also, the game should have really had a 180 spin button.

If an FPS needs a 180 spin button then I think you've fundamentally done something wrong with your controls or game design. The only exception I might give is for Resident Evil style games but even then I honestly think its more a case of fixing your controls.

[Kestastrophe]

The 180 spin button works fine for L4D and I'm not sitting there cursing the controls. I think it feels unintuitive at first because not many games have utilized that in their control scheme, but it is really necessary for the game.

I didn't care so much about the input lag in Killzone 2 as much as I hated the turn speed. The acceleration felt off, and that was amplified by the input lag. I found the game to be unplayable at launch, but went back and had a decent time with it after they patched it.

[Stoney Mason]

The 180 spin button works fine for L4D and I'm not sitting there cursing the controls. I think it feels unintuitive at first because not many games have utilized that in their control scheme, but it is really necessary for the game.

Fair enough.

I'm not a left 4 dead player so I can't comment on that one although I know they throw enemies at you from all directions so theoretically I could understand it in that situation.

[cool breeze]

I don't think anything is wrong with a 180 spin button.  I'd actually want it on all shooters I play with a controller so I can lower the sensitivity and not sacrifice accuracy for turn speed.  Reason why it was a bigger problem in KZ2 is because you couldn't make the turn speed as fast as you would need to.  You can argue how realistic the situation would be, but if someone managed to get behind you, it meant you would die even if he was the worst player ever; you couldn't turn around fast enough to fire back.  Design decision or not, a 180 spin would have helped without compromising whatever they were trying to accomplish.

 

[Bebpo]

It works well in Mirror's Edge

[Stoney Mason]

In MP it would be cheap. I can tell you that from the jump. If you can't physically get your turn radius around to actually shoot at somebody behind you, then you deserve to die. Or the game needs to be able to actually give you sensitivity setting options and proper controller input where physcially turning yourself around isn't a painful experience. Talking only about MP here.

In the SP of something I might understand it potentially based on your game design ala Left for Dead where theoretically anything can come from you at any direction but the reality is that isn't the problem with most games. Most games feel alright as you turn around which is why a 180 flip button isn't a standard in most console shooters. Now if Killzone is one of those shooters in the category of a left 4 dead where people are truly coming at you from all direction at all times, then I can see it. Otherwise I think there are a lot of fundamental issues that could be fixed before you put in a 180 button. I generally don't hear a lot of people who play Halo request a 180 button and that is a game where occasionally enemies are coming at you from all directions depending on how you place yourself in the battle. The reason is because the base controls work fine for those situations. Adding essentially a spin button isn't going to help most normal people. It's like a band aid on top of the original problem. I think most people just want the controls to feel natural and smooth and they want to be able to achieve what they want to achieve within the context of getting their character to do what he needs to do.

[brawndolicious]

The worst was the name of the control fix that they patched in that made the game actually playable. It was called "high precision mode" or something, lol

yeah, they patched the input lag but I heard it was something you could actually turn on or off in the options screen so that lag probably wasn't because of a problem with the game code or the animation.

I haven't played KZ2, but it doesn't sound like the lag was that bad actually.  Halo 3 was about 100 ms so that's only 66 ms difference between it and KZ2.  It's probably because COD4 just made people used to more sensitivity and more acceleration.  Some say that KZ2's input lag is also supposed to change depending on your "inertia".

[Himu]

 It reaffirmed my stance that Halo is the best SP FPS on consoles

Huh? Tell me you're joking, Bebpo!

[duckman2000]

Also, the game should have really had a 180 spin button.

If an FPS needs a 180 spin button then I think you've fundamentally done something wrong with your controls or game design. The only exception I might give is for Resident Evil style games but even then I honestly think its more a case of fixing your controls.

Nonsense. Plenty of shooters could benefit 180 degree turn, to mimic the real over-shoulder movement. If it can be added as multiplayer relief in order to keep general movement more weighty, then all the better. The solution now is ridiculously fast acceleration without much weight and with ample auto-aim, and that's hopefully not something that is going to stick around forever. KZ2 was certainly extreme, but I appreciated the move from dolly-guncam/gun on a stick model. Wouldn't want it for all games, but it's nice with something less than standard once in a while.

[Stoney Mason]

As I said not every FPS needs to control like Halo or COD. The flip side is don't be surprised when people complain that certain FPS games on consoles control poorly and sell less well than certain others. Especially when they end up having to patch the controls multiple times to get them "right" and then still leave a good segment feeling they never quite got it right.

[duckman2000]

No one is surprised. Annoyed, perhaps, but not surprised. I am incredibly elitist about this, and for reasons that have little to do with the actual game. But on the other hand, I think it's in some ways a shame that Guerrilla did stick to the their guns regarding the input mechanics, considering that it effectively made a very good first person shooter inaccessible to a large group of potential fans. I liked the variation myself, but I knew from the beta that it would be a hurdle. I didn't expect it to be as big of a hurdle as it apparently was, but then I hadn't played the game mode that employed a cover system on top of the less than traditional controls. I'd just hate to think that the reaction to Killzone 2 will cause others to shy away from trying out new things.

[Stoney Mason]

No one is surprised. Annoyed, perhaps, but not surprised. I am incredibly elitist about this, and for reasons that have little to do with the actual game. But on the other hand, I think it's in some ways a shame that Guerrilla did stick to the their guns regarding the input mechanics, considering that it effectively made a very good first person shooter inaccessible to a large group of potential fans. I liked the variation myself, but I knew from the beta that it would be a hurdle. I didn't expect it to be as big of a hurdle as it apparently was, but then I hadn't played the game mode that employed a cover system on top of the less than traditional controls.

I'd just hate to think that the reaction to Killzone 2 will standardize the dolly and magneto-aim model.

I'm not sure they did stick to their guns. Like I said they patched the controls at least twice that I know of. The game as shipped control wise had fundamental issues for a lot of gamers. Now its fine for them to try a different control output but if they are out there patching the game's controls then they at least agree there was some issue at launch.

[duckman2000]

Keeping controls the way they were despite a barrage of complaints from beta testers definitely counted as sticking to their guns. Releasing a patch that added a new option to the control menu was them trying to appease the critics post-launch.

yeah, i don't finish many games

sometimes i just feel that, although i enjoyed the game, i've had enough and am ready to move on to something else

With the way game endings have been in the recent years, I sometimes consider just dropping the game somewhere in the final levels, and just make up a good ending. Of course, in the case of Halo 3 that would have made fucking Cortana the lasting memory, and any sort of shitty crud of an ending would have been better than that. Unless it was the KZ2 ending, which was even cruddier. 


Oh, and when MAG flops, it will be for many reasons. Not just the multiplayer only status. Warhawk is a better example, since it was a genuinely good game.

[duckman2000]

Whenever it comes out, I sure hope they go back to the KZ environment structure. Seaside, jungle, mountain valleys, beautiful parks, that kind of stuff. Drop Helghan and its natural ugliness. Also, let me play as a Shadow Marshal.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

Killzone 3 should be a PS4 launch title.  2010 is too soon and 2011 will have Modern Warfare 3, which will probably make Sony nervous about putting a second attempt at a franchise revival.  Although having Killzone 3 as the big launch FPS* could give it a lot more attention and sales than if it were on PS3 anyway.

* - I'm assuming the PS4 will launch in 2012.

[duckman2000]

I'm not even ready to make the assumption that there will be a PS4. And the chances for that will probably be even worse if they simply stop providing the PS3 with games. I'm betting on a 2010 or early 2011 release. I don't think there will be another Resistance for some time.

[MCD]

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l142/xxdurkaxx/100_0949.jpg
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l142/xxdurkaxx/100_0950.jpg
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l142/xxdurkaxx/100_0948.jpg
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l142/xxdurkaxx/100_0951.jpg

[duckman2000]

Red and yellow, that's some crafty camo there.

[Stoney Mason]

Completely single player focused article which I'm less interested in than the multiplayer although since the beta is coming up, I guess we'll get information there.


As far as the single player the only real bit I took away as compelling was trying to make the battles seem larger scale and having more enemy AI and vehicles active. I always felt the game suffered there in trying to depict a big war so that sounds cool.

[Stoney Mason]

Ugh, it still looks like 3. Great job on the "new" engine guys.

It's kind of hard to tell without actual scans and just camera snaps imo honestly although it does look similar to Halo 3.

[Stoney Mason]

The one thing I can give Killzone is that you felt like you were in a conflict. Same with COD.

Halo Never felt that way to me at all.

Agreed which is why I hope they pump that up. It was cool back in Halo 1 but they never really upped it and to be fighting this "epic" war it never really felt that way. Especially in comparison to competing titles nowadays.

[demi]

Looks great, cant wait for the beta.

[maxy]

Hmm,tech sounds very impressive...
It looks like they are using tessellation and some kind of mega-texture approach.
10x lighting sources compared to Halo 3
40 AI,20 vehicles encounters
But my favorite part is the sky being a true space

It looks like like we are going to be battling in big environments....
And the team consists of 6 spartans

[cool breeze]

Red and yellow, that's some crafty camo there.

This is Halo.  What they didn't take from Aliens, they took from GI Joe.

It looks pretty good.  From the screens at least it looks better than Halo 3, which isn't exactly hard to do since Halo 3 didn't look great when it came out in 2007...and these are probably touched up shots like what was shown of Halo 3 pre-release, or at least photo mode, which touches up pictures and people use to say Halo 3 was a good looking game (still doesn't convince).  Honestly, it's not a big deal and the last time the Halo games were visually impressive was the first one, or the video of Halo 2 shown at that one E3 that looked completely different and better than the final product.  All I really want is the FOV from ODST and not Halo 3.  Seeing it in motion could help a lot because part of what made Halo 3 so weak visually was the animation.  And not saying it doesn't look good there, it's just hard to trust Bungie, or really any dev, to show pictures of what the game actually looks like.

Will rent/buy depending on multiplayer beta.

[duckman2000]

it's just hard to trust Bungie, or really any dev, to show pictures of what the game actually looks like.

Especially Bungie, yeah. The screenshot thing was genius, too; millions of fans sharing touched up images from the game, that's clever.

[Stoney Mason]

Beyond the first one people haven't been playing Halo for the graphics.

As long as its an improvement over Halo 3 which shouldn't be that hard, people will be impressed/fine with it.

They also seem to be aware of some of their issues like with animation and faces.

It will all come down to the multiplayer for me on whether it will be a gamefly or a purchase.

[Beezy]

People still don't have scanners in 2010?

[duckman2000]

Yeah yeah, they are always aware of the issues. And then nothing improves, or improves very little, and they make some postmortem where they blame factors outside of their control, or someone else entirely. But you're right, no one is going to rip on its graphics, and some might even attempt to justify the inevitable near perfect scores with some tripe about how the greatness of the art just makes all the issues disappear.

[Stoney Mason]

We'll see. I can't comment intelligently until I see the actual game running in motion. Graphics on whole generally mean very little to me. That being said there is no doubt Halo 3 wasn't an especially attractive game and to look the way it did, it didn't even run at 60 fps which is generally why a pure graphics trade off is made.

It's possible to have good graphics imo without necessarily being on the bleeding edge of graphic tech. Atlhough personally I'm far more interested in other aspects of gameplay.

[cool breeze]

Beyond the first one people haven't been playing Halo for the graphics.

As long as its an improvement over Halo 3 which shouldn't be that hard, people will be impressed/fine with it.

They also seem to be aware of some of their issues like with animation and faces.

It will all come down to the multiplayer for me on whether it will be a gamefly or a purchase.

yeah, that's why I'm saying for all the nitpicking about the graphics, it's not like it's what the series is known for.  Still, Halo 1 blew me away when I first played it.  My first experience of playing Halo 1 was on a gamestop demo unit and I played it for three hours until the store closed.  I spend maybe 30 minutes talking with a friend about how good that grass and flashlight effect looked.

and I'd be fine with Halo 3 visuals if they made it 60 fps.  I may knock the CoD4 and MW2 for not looking too hot because I play them on PC, and like all games on PC, I play at 60+ fps (according to fraps MW2 runs at like 80 or 90 fps on my PC) but seeing how smooth MW2 runs on the PS3 for how it looks is impressive.  Makes everything feel so much more responsive and smooth too.