So what's the over/under on BioShock 2 not being very good?

[Stoney Mason]

Played for a few hours. Seems solid enough to me. Very reminiscent of the first. It seems like if you liked that you'll like this.

A lot of people sort of felt like the first was an "A" grade game if you were assigning a letter grade. I would have given it a "B". This feels like the same. It's less "new" but it's also less irritating to play with the better hacking and better combat. I like it. Bioshock in general doesn't get me wet but this seems about as good as could be expected and they didn't embarrass themselves by making this game.

Performance on the 360 is as sketchy as it was in the first game even without the frame rate being limited. It is what it is I guess.

The multi-player is...interesting.

I wouldn't say I like it it, but its impressive that you can tell a lot of effort at least went into it. It also has some neat little ideas in it and some surprising depth. No host migration is a killer though. And while Bioshock is an improved game combat wise, it still doesn't feel strong enough to play a really solid game of MP. The couple of games I played were a bit laggy. And as a personal taste thing the environments are too small for me. But like I said there is some good stuff in there design wise. It's just that I doubt the MP in general will pull me away from the other heavy hitter MP games but I've only played a couple matches so maybe I'll find it more appealing after I put a little more time in. I doubt it though.  

[fistfulofmetal]

played for about an hour or whatever. left me with a very indifferent "its a game" feeling. not really getting a sense of place here. its like i'm a in place. it looks like rapture. and stuff. like i'm playing a game based on rapture.

[fistfulofmetal]

sophia is such a boring antagonist. why did they have to try and shoe-horn some character into the history of rapture? the original setup was so much better.

[The Fake Shemp]

I do like Sinclair, though.

[Bebpo]

Got past Ryan Amusement Park and I'm definitely enjoying the game.  I have to admit I thought it would be a shit game because the sequel was totally unnecessary, but it's still a very enjoyable play.  I like the areas, and the defense orientated gameplay with the little sister stuff.

My only issues with the game are:
-I don't like Lamb at all.  She's a very stereotypical boring villian, which is sad since Ryan in Bio1 was awesome (let's not talk about the last 20% of the game).  I also don't like the HEAVY retconning of her into the story when obviously they hadn't even thought of her when making Bio1.

-I hate combat vs. gun enemies.  In Bio1 I felt like each group would have like 1 enemy with a gun and the rest would be melee.  Here I feel like it's 3 gun users & 1 melee.  This means I'm only as good as I have eve so I can shoot plasmids.  If I run out of eve I'm dead because the guns suck and while I'm rushing each gun user with my drill they are shooting my health down super fast.

-I don't like that at least so far all the plasmids have been the old ones.  It makes the gameplay feel like "been there, done that".  I wish they had ditched all the original weapon and support plasmids and came up with an entirely new roster of 20.

-The textures are kind of iffy (the el dorado signboard is like 320x480 or something wtff), but I do love the performance of the old ass engine so I can't complain too hard.


Also the game seems a lot more linear.  At some point before the game is over do you get free train access to revisit old areas so you can 100% the game?  Or if you leave an area having missed a room or little sister are you totally out of luck?

[fistfulofmetal]

Ryan's Amusement was really annoying because they kept beating you over the head with ANDREW RYAN. Every two seconds you get to hear the same rant about HOW IT SHOULD BE VS. HOW THE PARASITE MAKES IT.

suuuuuuuuper tacky. listen dudes, we didn't forget Andrew Ryan. You don't have to over do it.

[GilloD]

Ryan's Amusement was really annoying because they kept beating you over the head with ANDREW RYAN. Every two seconds you get to hear the same rant about HOW IT SHOULD BE VS. HOW THE PARASITE MAKES IT.

suuuuuuuuper tacky. listen dudes, we didn't forget Andrew Ryan. You don't have to over do it.

What the fuck else would Ryan Amusment's be about? Also, there's a diary at the end where Ryan talks about he didn't like the idea of being in the theme park.

[The Fake Shemp]

Yeah, that's a pretty dumb complaint. That section rocked.

[iconoclast]

The first time you leave on the train it gives you a warning to make sure you've done everything you want to do in the level, so I'm under the impression there's no turning back. Doesn't bother me though, I like thoroughly exploring each level as the game has a ton of attention to detail, just like the original.

There's also a missable achievement in Ryan Amusements:

spoiler (click to show/hide)

behind the first Andrew Ryan robot there's a golf club. Use telekenesis to whack him in the head with it.

[close]

[The Fake Shemp]

I'd be interested to see what 2K Marin could do unshackled from the poorly aging UE 2.5 engine and given the freedom to create a wholly new experience in the same universe.

[GilloD]

Plz grim fandango-esque adventure noir murder mystery in the last days of Rapture.

[The Fake Shemp]

I'd prefer to ditch Rapture. Or if you return, it's so far into the future that it abandoned, flooded and completely destroyed.

[Sho Nuff]

Gah.

This feels like DLC. From 2006. If you loved Bioshock 1 don't play this, it's like if McG made "E.T. II"

[The Fake Shemp]

I'd echo the sentiment that it feels like an expansion pack, but I don't think it does a disservice to the original.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

yeah, Sho Nuff has a huge hate on for it that I just don't share

[Stoney Mason]

Yeah as I said I don't get the over-reverence towards the original but then maybe that's because I didn't love it as much as most.

This is what it is.

It's fairly accurate and faithful. If you liked the first it would surprise me for people to actively hate this one.

Yes there is a formula going on and there isn't much new here but its the formula of the first game.

This certainly isn't a Mass Effect 2 level upgrade or remotely as good a game as that but then the first probably also wasn't as fucked up as the original Mass Effect was. As far as "sequels" go its certainly worthwhile (while perhaps not as inspired of course as the original was)

But then I'm still relatively early.

[Sho Nuff]

It's what, 3 years after the first game and this is the best they could do?

It doesn't look like they did anything to the engine, it looks worse in a lot of places. Gameplay systems and mechanics feel identical. Shit could have been bananas, these guys firing on all cylinders with UE3.5 could have been amazing, but it's just more of the same. tsc tsc

Also: The "Help" text under "Subject Delta" sounds like mega spoilers to me, I have no idea why they laid out exactly who I was, that was part of the fun :/

[Stoney Mason]

If you want to see how the MP starts and a little bit of MP stuff.

[youtube=560,345][/youtube]
[youtube=560,345][/youtube]
[youtube=560,345][/youtube]

[tehjaybo]

Finished it last night, really enjoyed it.

Started the multiplayer tonight, xbox froze, got an orange and watched netflix.

[iconoclast]

Yeah looks like there's a freeze bug in the multiplayer. Froze on me earlier as well, hopefully they patch it quickly.

Also, I found a good area near the end of Siren Alley for the Master Protector achievement (complete a gather without taking damage or having splicers reach the sister). There's a turret right beside one of the bodies you can harvest and a small room to hide out in behind it. Just set up a bunch of rivet gun traps and it should be pretty easy, as the only enemies that come for you are leadhead splicers.

[GilloD]

Dionysus Park is a huge pain in the ass. Guhhhh. Had t quit for awhile

[demi]

has anyone honestly died in this game yet? i am already bored.

[demi]

Yeah looks like there's a freeze bug in the multiplayer. Froze on me earlier as well, hopefully they patch it quickly.

Also, I found a good area near the end of Siren Alley for the Master Protector achievement (complete a gather without taking damage or having splicers reach the sister). There's a turret right beside one of the bodies you can harvest and a small room to hide out in behind it. Just set up a bunch of rivet gun traps and it should be pretty easy, as the only enemies that come for you are leadhead splicers.

I got this already on the 2nd Gather you do. Didnt have to set any traps.

[GilloD]

ALso, I was able to replicate a bad bug in Single Player- Try and swap Plasmids right before the slurping, Eve refill animation and you'll get stuck with 0 eve and no way to swap Plasmids unless you can find a Gene bank. Hardcore Mode?

[demi]

Not really, since you need certain plasmids to proceed...

[GilloD]

I hear the ending of the game is really great. Like the last levels. Otherwise I'd porbably forget about this. That said, LEAVING Siren's Alley is awesome and one of those moments that makes me totally undecided about whether this is an awesome or boring game.

[demi]

The research camera is suck this time.

[fistfulofmetal]

the little radio picture of tennebaum looks like monica belluci

[chronovore]

It's what, 3 years after the first game and this is the best they could do?

It doesn't look like they did anything to the engine, it looks worse in a lot of places. Gameplay systems and mechanics feel identical. Shit could have been bananas, these guys firing on all cylinders with UE3.5 could have been amazing, but it's just more of the same. tsc tsc

Also: The "Help" text under "Subject Delta" sounds like mega spoilers to me, I have no idea why they laid out exactly who I was, that was part of the fun :/

Look at the size of your hate-on. It's breathtaking.

I want to play this, but it does sound like I'd really only enjoy it if I'm ready for more of the same. I guess I'm not right now.

[cool breeze]

Internet went out yesterday, and with massive snow outside, I finished this.  All in all, it's a forgettable but decent game.  All the levels in single player are uninspired compared to Bioshock 1, none of the characters are interesting, and the story and twist are dumb.

I also finished No More Heroes 2 and are a bit similar in that they fixed some of the problems with the first game only to introduce other issues and generally take away what made the originals interesting.  At least Bioshock 2 is something.  No More Heroes 2 is hollow junk.

The research camera is suck this time.

I only hated it because the game replaces old enemies with new ones.  I had everything researched except thuggish splicers.  For you achievement people, do that early on.

[cool breeze]

I honestly lost track of time.  Classes were canceled and I couldn't go outside because of the snow, then internet went out, so it was having nothing better to do.  I'd say it is shorter than the first game for sure and far more linear.  Then again, I can't imagine how much of my Bioshock 1 time was spent rearranging pipes, so it's hard to do a fair comparison.  It feels like an expansion pack for sure.

Also, for those saying the drill isn't powerful, the game even acknowledges that the drill is a beast with all the tonic slots that make it more powerful.  You have the "Power to the people" upgrade, the big daddy research upgrade, the tonic slot upgrades, then melee damage in general upgrade, then increased damage based on each enemy you research, and some I won't spoil.  After a certain point I stopped using my other weapons.  In fact the only time I used my weapons was when I needed to do research, and only because "mixing it up" gives you more research points.

[demi]

Is this as disappointing as NMH2? Not even. Therefore, BioShock 2 is the VICTOR

[demi]

Someone just doesnt want to get chubs when they're addressed as big daddy again.

[The Fake Shemp]

As the guy that started this whole thread, the game has actually exceeded my expectations thus far - which admittedly were not very high. If you really loved the original, I think this is pretty much a mandatory purchase once it goes on sale. The gameplay has been refined and it has some great moments (and some dull ones), but it is most certainly a return to Rapture. It feels like a Triple-A expansion pack and if it was released at that price point, we wouldn't be having this discussion. It is no BioShock, though - and a lot of the charm and surprise is gone.

I'd recommend it for fans, though. I have been entertained.

P.S. Sinclair is a great character.

[maxy]

I'm in the same boat as Chronovore. I mean the game seems cool and the gameplay is supposedly much improved (right?) but I'm just not in the mood, I guess.

Its a good game,but you have to be in Bioshock mood,get this game when you have desire to revisit Rapture.

[iconoclast]

I honestly lost track of time.  Classes were canceled and I couldn't go outside because of the snow, then internet went out, so it was having nothing better to do.  I'd say it is shorter than the first game for sure and far more linear.  Then again, I can't imagine how much of my Bioshock 1 time was spent rearranging pipes, so it's hard to do a fair comparison.  It feels like an expansion pack for sure.

Also, for those saying the drill isn't powerful, the game even acknowledges that the drill is a beast with all the tonic slots that make it more powerful.  You have the "Power to the people" upgrade, the big daddy research upgrade, the tonic slot upgrades, then melee damage in general upgrade, then increased damage based on each enemy you research, and some I won't spoil.  After a certain point I stopped using my other weapons.  In fact the only time I used my weapons was when I needed to do research, and only because "mixing it up" gives you more research points.

Yeah the drill becomes much stronger after you get the tonics and power to the people upgrades. It's a good weapon, but the rivet gun is king. It can kill every enemy (besides the big guys obviously) with one headshot so it's all I really use. It even makes very quick work of the alpha daddies.

I've only got a couple areas left until I'm finished and I think this game is great so far. Then again I loved Bioshock 1 so perhaps I'm a little biased.

PS. Gil is awesome, Sinclair is lame.

[drew]

what if you absolutely loathed the original and it almost made you quit playing videogames altogether?

[The Fake Shemp]

You will probably not like the sequel!

[Bebpo]

Internet went out yesterday, and with massive snow outside, I finished this.  All in all, it's a forgettable but decent game.  All the levels in single player are uninspired compared to Bioshock 1, none of the characters are interesting, and the story and twist are dumb.

I also finished No More Heroes 2 and are a bit similar in that they fixed some of the problems with the first game only to introduce other issues and generally take away what made the originals interesting.  At least Bioshock 2 is something.  No More Heroes 2 is hollow junk.

The research camera is suck this time.

I only hated it because the game replaces old enemies with new ones.  I had everything researched except thuggish splicers.  For you achievement people, do that early on.

So can you never go back to old areas and you just miss permenently any tonics you didn't find?  Like when I left the amusement park it said there was still 1 little sister in the area.  So if I want to save all the little sisters I am fucked if I leave before saving her?

[cool breeze]

yes

Also, enemies and big daddies respawn, so it shouldn't be a problem getting the research you need.  The Big Sisters are the only limited enemies.

[Bebpo]

so basically before I leave each area I have to pull out a faq and make sure I did everything.  Good thing I kept a save at the end of the amusement museum.

Wow, talk about stupid game design.  Especially when you were free to travel in the original.

[cool breeze]

Sinclair straight up tells you at the end of every level to wrap up everything in that location because you won't be returning.  They don't mention that many enemies don't appear later in the game.

[Bebpo]

Yeah, but I thought it was one of those "until endgame" things.  Where before the final area you can go anywhere on the train. 


This just kind of bugs me because I pretty much 100%'d the original.  Only achievement I didn't get was beating it on hard because I didn't want to replay the game.  Was planning on doing the same here too

[iconoclast]

Not being able to revisit previous locations is indeed dumb though. I feel like I've been pretty thorough, but I still missed 10-15 audio diaries without a guide. Oh well.

The only enemies that don't appear in the later levels are

spoiler (click to show/hide)

big daddies and thuggish splicers

[close]

right? I'm entering the second-to-last area right now and I still need to max out research for the brutes and big sisters (level 3 on both). Hope there's still more left...

[demi]

It's practically impossible to miss anything this time. There's no hidden nooks to be aware of, and everything is out in the open.

There are 128 audio diaries, but only 100 is required for the achievement.

[cool breeze]

yeah, it's easy to find everything.

but you'd need to play the game twice, or most of it twice, to get all the endings unlike the first game.  You can't just save right before the the last little sister like in the first game.  I don't know if there are achievements for each ending, though.

Not being able to revisit previous locations is indeed dumb though. I feel like I've been pretty thorough, but I still missed 10-15 audio diaries without a guide. Oh well.

The only enemies that don't appear in the later levels are

spoiler (click to show/hide)

big daddies and thuggish splicers

[close]

right? I'm entering the second-to-last area right now and I still need to max out research for the brutes and big sisters (level 3 on both). Hope there's still more left...

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Brute splicers don't appear for a level or two, but do return eventually in the end game.  Thuggish splicers are the rarest and only show up very early in the game.  

[close]

[demi]

Research is cake as well. Equip the super research tonic, and start mixing things up. Zap, shoot, zap, shoot (if a hacked item is fighting, let them fight)

I'm already nearing level 3 on Brutes and I'm at Siren Alley. Are you guys playing the same thing I am

[demi]

yeah, it's easy to find everything.

but you'd need to play the game twice, or most of it twice, to get all the endings unlike the first game.  You can't just save right before the the last little sister like in the first game.  I don't know if there are achievements for each ending, though.

Theres one for saving everything, thats it. I'm gonna just watch the "bad" ending on youtube.

[Bebpo]

Are there missable little sisters?  Like in Ryan Amusement for the story you have to find and escort one.  But is there another one in the area that you have to find?  I'm looking at the gamespot guide and it doesn't mention anything about a 2nd little sister in that section.

[dark1x]

what if you absolutely loathed the original and it almost made you quit playing videogames altogether?

Those people exist?   

[demi]

Are there missable little sisters?  Like in Ryan Amusement for the story you have to find and escort one.  But is there another one in the area that you have to find?  I'm looking at the gamespot guide and it doesn't mention anything about a 2nd little sister in that section.

The game shows how many sisters are in the level when you press start. This was in the first game as well...

[iconoclast]

Research is cake as well. Equip the super research tonic, and start mixing things up. Zap, shoot, zap, shoot (if a hacked item is fighting, let them fight)

I'm already nearing level 3 on Brutes and I'm at Siren Alley. Are you guys playing the same thing I am

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I haven't seen a brute in the areas past Siren Alley. Sometimes I'd forget to start researching them before I killed them as well, but I read there's plenty near the end. It's best to mix up all your weapons and plasmids too, not just zapping and shooting with the rivet. The most research I got so far was ~2000 from a Big Daddy while trying to use as many different attacks as I could.

Are there missable little sisters?  Like in Ryan Amusement for the story you have to find and escort one.  But is there another one in the area that you have to find?  I'm looking at the gamespot guide and it doesn't mention anything about a 2nd little sister in that section.

Nope, it's just like Bioshock 1. Press start and it will show all the little sisters available on the level. There's usually 3, but I think the earlier levels had 2.

[demi]

Also GilloD is high when he said he had tons of ADAM. What are you doing, killing the little brats? I -wish- I could buy whatever I wanted.

[iconoclast]

Also GilloD is high when he said he had tons of ADAM. What are you doing, killing the little brats? I -wish- I could buy whatever I wanted.

There's a tonic that boosts the amount of ADAM little sisters harvest. At one point I had around 750 ADAM, but I blew that all pretty quickly since some of the later tonics are expensive. Lightning level 3 was 225 I believe...

And I liked lightning level 2 more.

[demi]

shit i havent found that yet then.

[Bebpo]

Yeah, I know start shows how many sisters.  I just meant are any of them optional?  Or does the main story require you to get them all?  I don't want to miss any (for the adam especially)

shit i havent found that yet then.

Hope you didn't miss it

[tehjaybo]

I'm gonna replay for dem cheevs, but even though I absolutely loved BS1 I couldn't replay it for some reason.  My playtime for 2 was 6PM - 5AM, given a couple food/BR breaks in between.  All in all what I had hoped for.  And the special edition is pretty.

Also, melt all the ice you find.  I found a cat named Schrödinger.  It made me pretty hard.

[iconoclast]

shit i havent found that yet then.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

You get it as a gift after you rescue a certain amount of little sisters, if I remember right. Should be getting it real soon

[close]

Yeah, I know start shows how many sisters.  I just meant are any of them optional?  Or does the main story require you to get them all?  I don't want to miss any (for the adam especially)

shit i havent found that yet then.

Hope you didn't miss it

I think most of them are optional actually. When I was getting near the end of a level a warning popped up on screen to tell me I haven't rescued all the sisters yet and I should probably go do that.

[cool breeze]

shit i havent found that yet then.

I think it's impossible to miss since

spoiler (click to show/hide)

it's in one of those gift bears the girls give you.  Later on you get a tonic that makes the time it takes to harvest much shorter.

[close]

[demi]

Hope you didn't miss it

Nah, I got it just now from the girls. Bebpo found taking photos of himself in front of his japa games...