Game

[Borys]

`

[Mr. Gundam]

Linear JRPGs!!

Seriously. I love 'em.

[Beezy]

Linear JRPGs!!

Seriously. I love 'em.

They're only good when the battle system is good.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

Good idea to criticise western games in the western press.
This Toriyama guy will go a long way.

Of course, ever since FFXIII was moneyhatted for the 360, Square's developers switched their priorities over to Versus and stopped caring about XIII anymore.

Versus

[Ichirou]

FFXIII was not successful with Japanese fans.  A LOT of people griped about it.  So this Toriyama guy with his "Western reviewers JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND Japanese games" bullshit can kiss my assssss.

[bork]

Hey now, Versus will probably have a lot more zippers, chains, and mufflers.  It will be successful!

[Ichirou]

I'm with the crowd that thinks Versus is going to end up getting canned.

[magus]

i'm confused,are we saying that reviewer aren't a bunch of dickwad just so we can bash ff13? 

[dark1x]

Regardless of the FFXIII reference, I'm definitely not a fan of wide open games these days. 

The best approach is something like Mass Effect, which is still very linear, but allows you to approach each scenario in any order.  It's not an open world nor is it strictly linear.  It's a perfect combination of the two and could work for JRPGs as well (replace shooting bits with JRPG battles).

Open world games rarely leave a great impression on me any more.  Assassin's Creed 2 is an example of a game that tried to hard to tell a story but ultimately did nothing for me.  It's just too open and feels like a series of systems more than a crafted experience.  Even my favorite open world games, like Fallout 3, present their story so poorly that it ruins whatever they were going for.  Sometimes limitations can be a good thing...

[demi]

Borys, what will you think of SD games in the post HD world?

[tiesto]

Plenty of oldskool Japanese RPGs were quite nonlinear in the way western RPGs are...

FF1 - fairly linear (though still a large world map to explore) in the outset, but after creating the canal, you could take on the Fiends in any order.
FF2 - you could theoretically travel from one point of the world map to the other, without ever setting foot in the second town. Of course, the monsters would probably make mincemeat out of you way before then, but hey it's still possible.
FF6 - World of Ruin, of course
Phantasy Star 1 - once you get the Spaceship, you could go wherever you like... several dungeons (to get the best weapons) are completely optional, but you needed to get the Eclipse Torch to get the Laerma Nut, and the vase to store the nut in... so Myau could transform atop the tower of Baya Malay. REALLY difficult game to figure out without a walkthrough.
DQ1 - mostly just grinding and collecting 3 items (Erdrick's Token, Rain Staff, Sun Stone) to get to the final boss tower.
DQ3 - collect 6 orbs to revive the great bird Ramia, could do this in any order you want.
Romancing SaGa/SaGa Frontier - extremely nonlinear, plenty of characters

FF10 was really the first game that was like a point A to point B uber linear experience, and it was one of the main things I disliked about the game (the other being distinguished mentally-challenged minigames). I don't really have high hopes for 13, especially after the Japanese reviews.

[dark1x]

I have to strongly disagree with that. I too once loved the linearity of japanese RPGs it was the de facto standard by which I judged them. I didn't even mind losing overworld in FFX for example as the story and locations were pretty nice. However when I played FF12 it strucked me how similiar it is to WRPGs for example BG2. Similiar AND better than the old-school jRPGs schemas. I want to go wherever I want to and whenever I want to. If I'm getting my ass kicked by creatures 30 levels higher up than me then coming up with ways to defeat them is a very nice challenge.

I'm not really a JRPG fan any more, to be honest, but I just never really enjoyed the wide open WRPGs either.  I prefer a mix of the two.

The idea of going wherever I want whenever was appealing to me at one point, but I've discovered that it leads to rather dull gameplay sessions.  I can't stand MMORPGs, for instance, and open ended WRPGs are very similar.  This sort of experience just doesn't appeal to me.  It all sounds so awesome until I actually try to play it.  This doesn't just apply to RPGs for me either.  I feel this same way about all genres.  It's very rare that I can really enjoy any open ended games at this point.  Fallout 3 was one of the few exceptions, and really, that had plenty of weak points as well and only its compelling environment kept me playing.

For JRPGs, open ended gameplay never mattered.  In fact, I've always played through my RPGs in the most linear fashion possible and never EVER do any of the side quest stuff.  Never have, never will.  Still, there hasn't been a great JRPG in years and I've pretty much lost interest in the genre.  I enjoyed Lost Odyssey, for some unknown reason, but aside from that, everything else has been a bust.

Star Ocean 4 was actually the breaking point for me.  I had previously enjoyed the series, but something about SO4 was so off putting an horrible that I've all but abandoned the genre since.  Just thinking about that game pisses me off.

[tiesto]

dark have you tried Vesperia yet?

[dark1x]

dark have you tried Vesperia yet?

Yeah.  It wasn't bad, but felt like a retread to me.  It was more of the same.  I can't say I disliked it nor can I say I love it.  I suppose, by default, its the second best JRPG I've played this gen.  It didn't offend me, at least.  I dunno why I liked Lost Odyssey so much, to be honest, but it really was the only JRPG I can say that I really enjoyed.  Yes, there were some awful bits (those two kids), but for the most part, it was a pretty good ride.

Star Ocean 4, Blue Dragon (at least this LOOKED awesome), Infinite Undiscovery, Last Remnant, and Eternal Sonata were all offensive and horrible.  I tried to like each and every one of them, but holy shit, they basically teamed up to make me hate the JRPG genre.    After Star Ocean I haven't touched another JRPG...

TriAce was probably the worst offender as I went from loving their PS2 outings (even Star Ocean 3) to absolutely LOATHING them this generation.  I could not possibly dislike their games more.  When I think of the cutscenes in IU or SO4, I start to feel a bit queasy.

The idea of bumbling anime cliches bouncing around space as high ranking members of the so called "military" just drives me up the wall.

[demi]

Last Remnant

I cant play any JRPG without it being inferior to that game anymore.

[youtube=560,345]0P8ZQcAzC_E[/youtube]

Sorry you hate games dark, maybe you should become a game designer so you have an excuse not to play games anymore. Self-loathing at its finest

[dark1x]

Sorry you hate games dark, maybe you should become a game designer so you have an excuse not to play games anymore. Self-loathing at its finest

I feel like dcharlie sometimes.   

[pitohui]

it's funny because FFXIII sucks

[TripleA]

I think it's safe to say Japan needs to step their game up.

[Trent Dole]

Damn, so much hate.   Guess I'll just get the new Slayers season in March instead.

[dark1x]

it's funny because FFXIII sucks

Yet another shitty JRPG.  :\

The genre is dead.

[GoofyGoober]

Well now I guess I can spend the money on Princess and the Frog Blu-Ray for the kids instead. Hopefully the price tanks like it did in Japan.

[recursivelyenumerable]

Toriyama made FFX-2 which was relatively "open world".  So, I dunno.  I think they probably just made it super-linear to have more of a contrast from FFX-2, FF12, and FF11/14.

[Human Snorenado]

Toriyama made FFX-2 which was relatively "open world".  So, I dunno.  I think they probably just made it super-linear to have more of a contrast from FFX-2, FF12, and FF11/14.

Yup this is what I think also. FFs swing like a pendulum: from open world to linear back to open world. That's why I cannot wait for first info on FF15

By the time FF15 should be coming out, there probably won't even be a Squeenix anymore.  Good riddance, I say.

[Bebpo]

Toriyama made FFX-2 which was relatively "open world".  So, I dunno.  I think they probably just made it super-linear to have more of a contrast from FFX-2, FF12, and FF11/14.

Yup this is what I think also. FFs swing like a pendulum: from open world to linear back to open world. That's why I cannot wait for first info on FF15

By the time FF15 should be coming out, there probably won't even be a Squeenix anymore.  Good riddance, I say.

Except that again and again people say stuff like this but their games SELL IN BOATLOADS.
SE is doing quite well, regardless of how people view their games.

Plus they make awesome games (FFXIII-aside) still.  The Last Remnant, KH BBS, TWEWY, FF/DQ remakes, etc...

[magus]

don't you see? with square-enix out of the picture the world of rpg will be full of sandboxy game full of evil/bad choice and sex scenes! wouldn't that be awesome?

spoiler (click to show/hide)

FUCK NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[close]

[Human Snorenado]

You're right, a world of rigidly set out weeabootastic story with a fey, spiky haired protagonist sounds loads better.  Also, belts and zippers.

[Mr. Gundam]

You're right, a world of rigidly set out weeabootastic story with a fey, spiky haired protagonist sounds loads better.  Also, belts and zippers.

[pitohui]

I haven't finished the game (I'm stuck on the last boss) but you can achieve the same effect by taking mushrooms and reading back issues of Men's Knuckle

[magus]

You're right, a world of rigidly set out weeabootastic story with a fey, spiky haired protagonist sounds loads better.  Also, belts and zippers.

dude i bet those games also have turns and random battle
ewwwwwwww i can feel my skins crawling,don't these game know the meaning of evolution? where is the truly evoluted pseudo real time mmorpg battle style?
also

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

I couldn't give a shit less about the game.  The FF series has had its head up its own ass and SE is only determined to push it up further.  Square knows that at the end of the day, the same 1.5 million people (read: suckers) will buy the new mainline FF regardless of quality.

Of course, ever since FFXIII was moneyhatted for the 360, Square's developers switched their priorities over to Versus and stopped caring about XIII anymore.

Yep, Versus XIII will be better because it will be the pure FFXIII.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

I could see it being a straight to DVD/BRD release

[Powerslave]

Hey now, Versus will probably have a lot more zippers, chains, and mufflers.  It will be successful!

[Bebpo]

Versus XIII is like my massive 15 inch cock

Both get talked about a lot, both sound impressive, no one has ever seen either of them, and -unfortunately- neither really exist.

Do you play the Kingdom Hearts games at all?  Nomura is actually pretty good at making rpgs! 

[magus]

well isn't that pretty much square modus operandi
- announce game
- stop giving a fuck
- remember announcing the game 2 years ago
- start showing stuff
-
- profit?

[Bebpo]

well isn't that pretty much square modus operandi
- announce game
- stop giving a fuck
- remember announcing the game 2 years ago
- start showing stuff
-
- profit?

Nomura actually gave an interview yesterday where he said he thought showing a game real early and then showing nothing for years is a horrible way to treat their fanbase.  So he wants to wait to show stuff and have more projects going at once.  He said he wanted a new KH game every year so the fanbase doesn't feel neglected.

[Human Snorenado]

I couldn't give a shit less about the game.  The FF series has had its head up its own ass and SE is only determined to push it up further.  Square knows that at the end of the day, the same 1.5 million people (read: suckers) will buy the new mainline FF regardless of quality.

FF12 was really good man. And also very different. Felt pretty much like a FF game made by western company like Bethesda. That's why weeaboos hated it.

uh... i think it was hated because the "combat" system was shit

[Human Snorenado]

touche, you wacky polack.  touche.

[ManaByte]

Kingdom Hearts 3 may be in danger too. After their last couple console games flopped, Disney is really being careful about any game that isn't a F2P browser based game.

If Square comes and asks for characters for a PS3 exclusive game it won't happen. They'll need to do it on Wii or 360 if they want to work with Disney. They're still reeling from the Turok bomb.

[maxy]

Speaking during DICE 2010, Disney game exec Graham Hopper noted that Epic Mickey’s paint stroke-centric gameplay was perfectly suited to the Wii’s “intuitive” controls.

But what of Natal and Arc? Unfortunately, it all came down to timing.

“If we started it 6 months ago we would have potentially thought differently about it,” he said.

“We have a very large audience base that has Wiis in their home,” he added optimistically. “That’s not to say that we won’t go to other platforms in the future.”

Btw,DICE 2010 started yesterday,it lasts 3 days

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

I couldn't give a shit less about the game.  The FF series has had its head up its own ass and SE is only determined to push it up further.  Square knows that at the end of the day, the same 1.5 million people (read: suckers) will buy the new mainline FF regardless of quality.

FF12 was really good man. And also very different. Felt pretty much like a FF game made by western company like Bethesda. That's why weeaboos hated it.

Was it bloated and buggy like a Bethesda game too?

[dark1x]

best to show a small cg clip , claim its realtime , then just let the fanboy monkeys run riot.

meanwhile, theres probably one coder who has one character running aroung a flat green background in the White Engine. And that is all they have to show

I don't blame them since that's been the Sony MO for 10 years. Blatently lie about thier "tech" demos and hope thier clueless public gobbles it up. Fortunately Sony and Square were caught as the bold faced liars they are at the PS3 unveiling.

No, that's not true.

Sony did lie about tech demos for PS3, yes (though I suspect that made Killzone 2 a more impressive looking game in the end), but the PS2 stuff was all completely realtime 60 fps and absolutely represented what the system was capable of.  All of those demos were matched and exceeded by real games.  Those tech demos even used field rendering resulting in "teh jaggies" which many later games solved.

I would also say that they were honest about the PSP as well.  What they showed early on for that system ended up being VERY conservative as it has FAR outdone what anyone thought was possible.

Only the PS3 reveal was filled with fake CG movies and it seems to me that lessons were learned as such trailers have all but disappeared.  Square-Enix, however, has presented their games with CG since their first foray into the world of CDs.  XIII may be a shitty game, but the visuals certainly aren't anything to scoff at.  You could always tell what was CG and what was intended to represent realtime and I'd say they came pretty close to the mark.

There was a period when Sony was on top of the world and CG trailers presented as realtime was A-OK, but those days were short lived and only applied to the early days of the PS3.

[maxy]

maxy's avatar is lovely

Thanks

[dark1x]

The public videos aren't what Sony showed to select developers early on. The internal PS2 reveal was filled with bullshit claims and the videos were rendered on SGI work stations* to cover their lack of real hardware. It was the initial developer blitz to sway early Dreamcast development teams and it worked beautifully.

Really?  Which videos are you referring to?

[Diunx]

Is this game really more linear than FFX because that would be a pretty big accomplishment.

[Beezy]

I can't wait for the next gen drama, it's going to be very very interesting.

If Microsoft has another faulty console and doesn't let people transfer their Arcade games over to their next console, a lot of people will be pissed. I'm not sure what else they can fuck up with.

[Himu]

http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?cId=3178060

As far as Kitase is concerned, FFXIII isn't even really a role-playing game. "We didn't really intend to work within with the RPG template," he says. "We wanted to create a new game, even a new genre. The way we look at it, there's isn't a certain format that we have to keep to and build a game around. Rather, it goes the other way around. We create a game and, depending on what works or doesn't work within that game, it ends up reflecting different staple elements."

CAN'T BREATHE.

[Great Rumbler]

The new genre they created is...the dungeon crawler.

[Himu]

 

[Raban]

the level of spin surrounding this game rivals the new ultras in Super Street Fighter IV

[Don Flamenco]

I'm ready for this game to come out, create some hype and meltdowns for a few weeks, then go the fuck away.  I'm so sick of seeing it everywhere...people just need to play it so all the stupid mystery and speculation surrounding it stop.  I can't wait to play it myself, but everything points to it being a decent linear RPG that happens to have some tasty graphics.  no more, no less.

the level of spin surrounding this game rivals the new ultras in Super Street Fighter IV

need context.  what's the drama around the new ultras?   all I know is makoto is in and that's what matters.

[Raban]

I'm ready for this game to come out, create some hype and meltdowns for a few weeks, then go the fuck away.  I'm so sick of seeing it everywhere...people just need to play it so all the stupid mystery and speculation surrounding it stop.  I can't wait to play it myself, but everything points to it being a decent linear RPG that happens to have some tasty graphics.  no more, no less.

the level of spin surrounding this game rivals the new ultras in Super Street Fighter IV

need context.  what's the drama around the new ultras?   all I know is makoto is in and that's what matters.

it's more of a joke. It isn't drama, it's just most of the new Ultras in SSF4 involve uncontrollable amounts of literal spinning.

[bork]

That map

[Howard Alan Treesong]

public videos aren't what Sony showed to select developers early on. The internal PS2 reveal was filled with bullshit claims and the videos were rendered on SGI work stations* to cover their lack of real hardware. It was the initial developer blitz to sway early Dreamcast development teams and it worked beautifully.

this.

though i think PS3 was way worse.

I remember Patel and JohntV laughing at me at how much more incredible the PS3 was over the X360, i'm assuming they saw something similar early on (?)

lies, damned lies, and SCEI "target renders" :'(

[BlueTsunami]

Is this game really more linear than FFX because that would be a pretty big accomplishment.

This linear:

(Image removed from quote.)

Fixed

[Third]

That looks like a huge turd. Awful.

[Raban]

I dunno. I don't hate this game, I just wish SE would do something different. Just stop making Final Fantasy and start another franchise.

Not saying make another JRPG franchise, just do something different. Einhander was a pretty good shmup, Vagrant Story from what I hear was an excellent RPG, and although those games came out during the heyday of Square, I'm sure they can tap into that resource of goodness once again.

Maybe an action/platformer? Possible a dungeon crawler aRPG like SotN?

imo when SE makes an RPG, they focus too much on making it really pretty, but in the end they've been remaking FF6 since it came out, sans FF12.

I'd say they should make a shooter, but japanese FPS suck, and Dirge of Cerberus was terribad.

I forgot about Nier, but it looks terrible compared to the cream of the crop action games we've gotten this gen. Would it be wrong to blame it on the fact that they've probably sunk all their resources into FF13?

[maxy]

What is the point of map in this game?It's not like you can get lost...oh Square

[cool breeze]

SE should do something different and make a Grandia game that is more than phenomenal combat. 

[Sho Nuff]

Can ANYONE explain to me what is going on in this picture

[demi]

without having played the game, no. but it is a good pic. stupid 1up watermark.