Author Topic: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes  (Read 10619 times)

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chronovore

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #120 on: June 08, 2010, 02:25:55 AM »
Rockstar as an entity has learned from the mistakes they made in GTA IV; or maybe they're craftier than I've ever realized. The DLC added features which had been clamored for in GTA such as mission replay and mission scoring, and essentially restored the non-story missions by adding gang wars, drug wars, and those parachuting activities. I wonder how much of this was just a means of adding value to the DLC so people would feel like they're REALLY getting more than was included in the base game.

Himu

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #121 on: June 08, 2010, 03:13:14 AM »
As much as I like this game, the final mission is shit.
IYKYK

Raban

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #122 on: June 08, 2010, 03:16:58 AM »
As much as I like this game, the final mission is shit.

What, in LaD? The final mission is epic as fuck.

Himu

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #123 on: June 08, 2010, 03:25:05 AM »
It is shit.

"Clay died."

"I have no fucking control over Clay. How the fuck do I lose the mission if that cunt dies?"

-------

"Yay. A cutscene, that means I got halfway through the mission, so I get a checkpoint."

"I'm low on life, and I see some armor. Nice."

*police storm, surrounding the fucking armor drop*

"...."

"WASTED"

"No big deal. That was past the checkpoint...right?"

*starts at the beginning of the mission*

LA;KJF;ASJF;ASDJF;ASJF;ADF;SADFK;JASD

-------

"I'm low on health and I'm at the part where the cuntrags storm ad nauseum. I should backtrack a bit to grab that health drop. Good thing I saved it! There's no one around so my two cock goblin henchmen won't end up dying since I killed everyone."

"You have abandoned Travis and Clay."

". . . . ."

"DO YOU WANT TO RETRY "GET LOST"?


Aside from that, the whole premise of the mission is stupid. He's going to rat you out and you'll do 15 years jail time, so your answer is storm a prison and kill everyone inside? Okay.

Games aren't art, example one.
IYKYK

Raban

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #124 on: June 08, 2010, 03:31:27 AM »
I didn't die once that whole mission. You suck, I'm sorry :(

And it's really tiring hearing you complain about the story in GTA. It's writing targeted towards rebellious, immature teenagers. It isn't going to blow your mind. Video games are a service, they're meant to appeal to as many people as possible, and most people love mindless action.

The last mission in LaD is fun as fuck.

Himu

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #125 on: June 08, 2010, 03:38:18 AM »
Great rebuttal.

I guess "epic" now classifies as mindlessness.
IYKYK

Himu

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #126 on: June 08, 2010, 03:41:09 AM »
Also, I forgot how bad GTA4's grenades are. You throw a grenade at a group of dudes, and they get right back up.  :lol
IYKYK

Raban

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #127 on: June 08, 2010, 03:44:13 AM »
Maybe you need tons of story exposition to build up a scene in a game to have qualify as epic, but all I need is a really fun game to play. The last mission was pretty exciting. It isn't one of my favorite gaming moments, it isn't even a worthy mention, but to call it complete shit is kind of stupid.

It's like porn. Story or not, all I care about is the sex scene. With games it's the same thing. Everything can be shit, but as long as it's a fun game, that works for me. You've made it pretty clear that you have an unbreakable focus on the story of the games you play, and that's fine, but I don't see eye to eye with that perspective.

I mean, are you even playing the same mission that I did? You get to fill up all your ammo and have your choice of weaponry prior to the storming-in. Did you pass on that?

Himu

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #128 on: June 08, 2010, 03:51:10 AM »
I call it shit, because like with every thing game related, I am thinking from a design point of view. Mowing down dudes, something you've done 9999 x before in the game, is a very generic way of finishing the game off. What's more, the things I've listed have hampered my enjoyment of it. Doing the mission over again, and killing a bunch of boring lifeless ai because some crappy team mate of mine -- who I have no control over -- ends up dying is pretty fucking gay and not very fun at all. It's pretty easy to why I think the mission is shit based off my previous post, but alas I apparently suck at the game.
IYKYK

Raban

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #129 on: June 08, 2010, 04:06:50 AM »
I don't understand how your buddies died, dude. That seriously never happened to me. Not once in the whole GAME. I'd be barreling through traffic with my gang behind me getting slammed into by cars and flying off cliffs and they'd just warp right next to me.

The game made it ridiculously clear where you had to go each time you moved up, so leaving your buddies behind is even more of a head-scratcher.

Sure, doing the same mission over and over again sucks, but I didn't have that problem. And in an action game, how else do you want to end it? With a rhythm based mini-game? It's an action game, you will be killing doodz the whole game, and most likely beat the game by killing a lot of doodz, or possibly one plot-specific dood.

A lot of your "design-related" criticisms seem like either anecdotal issues you personally suffered, or the game not living up to your personal expectations, which are quite elusive to me atm.

I went into the expansions expecting a slightly refined gameplay experience but ultimately more of the same gameplay from GTA IV, which I find very fun, and an exploration of parts of Liberty City that weren't fully fleshed out in Niko's campaign. I came out not just pleased, but pleasantly surprised. My only real complaint is that both the episodes' campaigns are a little on the short side, but so is every other game this gen.

Himu

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #130 on: June 08, 2010, 04:17:46 AM »
The best way to end a sandbox game is by molding all previous gameplay types into one final mission. A simple frag fest is fit for a pure action game, but not a sandbox game. The finale was disappointing from both a gameplay standpoint and a story standpoint. After the mission variety the game offered, you'd kinda expect the final mission would be more than simply taking a bunch of dudes down. Hence the gameplay disappointment; story-wise, the mission makes no sense, is canned, and not exactly interesting - which is a contrast to the rest of the game's story.

Also, what the fuck are you talking about? Personal expectations? Did you read what I posted? I left my henchmen behind because I needed life and there was a checkpoint arrow (that really wasn't a checkpoint).

Anyways, beat it. Good game, crap final mission.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2010, 04:19:44 AM by Himuro »
IYKYK

Stoney Mason

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #131 on: June 08, 2010, 09:17:53 AM »
As usual I don't agree with you not that it matters. The final mission of TLAD was good and enjoyable. Over the top yet fun. And a good capper mission for the game.

Himu

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #132 on: June 08, 2010, 06:57:30 PM »
It cracks me up every time i see "TGOBT" :lol
IYKYK

Himu

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #133 on: June 08, 2010, 07:07:16 PM »
OMG :lol

I just encountered Luis' old squeeze, and she's an creepy obsessive bitch who took like 37 pain relievers and 15 sleeping pills and she's all I'M GOING TO DIE LUIS, AND IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT, WHY DON'T YOU RETURN MY CALLS!?!?!

And I'm laughing so much.

God I miss this type of GTA :lol
IYKYK

chronovore

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #134 on: June 08, 2010, 07:12:08 PM »
She's not even an "old squeeze" -- you got the first encounter too, right? He just nailed her once. Another example of "Just because you can doesn't mean you should."

Himu

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #135 on: June 08, 2010, 07:14:36 PM »
What first encounter? I just saw her emails on the internet and just lol'd at Luis' replies.

 PLEASE make the next GTA entry as cartoony as all out possible PLEASE.
IYKYK

Himu

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #136 on: June 08, 2010, 07:27:35 PM »
Mori :lol
IYKYK

chronovore

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #137 on: June 08, 2010, 07:36:42 PM »
Mori and Brucie are the two most traditional GTA-style characters. They're great.

Himu

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #138 on: June 08, 2010, 10:38:58 PM »
Helicopter shooting controls  :yuck :yuck :yuck :yuck
IYKYK

chronovore

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #139 on: June 08, 2010, 10:44:18 PM »
Ah. The most annoying mission in the game, that is.

I can't understand why that 'copter controls so horribly compared to every other one in the game.  ???

Good luck getting 100% on the replay on that mission. I think Scenester and I both gave up on it with that.

Himu

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #140 on: June 08, 2010, 10:48:51 PM »
This is SHIT.
IYKYK

Himu

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #141 on: June 08, 2010, 10:57:57 PM »
Ah. The most annoying mission in the game, that is.

I can't understand why that 'copter controls so horribly compared to every other one in the game.  ???

Good luck getting 100% on the replay on that mission. I think Scenester and I both gave up on it with that.

The copter controls are actually the same since Vice City. It's just that unlike in past games, where missiles would make an explosion with a HUGE RADIUS, you have to be really precise, which is almost impossible when you consider that there's no reticule when flying, so you're essentially firing blind.
IYKYK

demi

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #142 on: June 08, 2010, 11:00:44 PM »
None of the missions are hard to get 100%, btw

If it's the level where you shoot the boats, dont use missles.
fat

chronovore

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #143 on: June 09, 2010, 01:00:31 AM »
Yeah, the controls are the same, but the responsiveness is attenuated to the point where there's no leeway like in the other 'copters. GTA IV's larger helis are more sluggish, so there's more play in its movement. This new model is twitchy, and readily drops itself into the water while trying to aim down toward those escaping Zodiac rafts, banking sharply to turn, or even when trying NOE flight to avoid downward aiming of the minigun.

But my competence is also suspect. You might also laugh that I'm unable to get 100% headshots in "Chinese Takeout." Does that mean "Don't shoot them anywhere but the head"? I am able to finish everyone with headshots, but I've not managed a 100% rating there. I'm guessing I accidentally spray the chest or neck en route to the head, like some incompetent bukkake performer.

edit: oops - spazzed a copy-paste
« Last Edit: June 09, 2010, 04:08:23 AM by chronovore »

maxy

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #144 on: June 09, 2010, 04:03:54 AM »
Quote
GTA IV has now sold more than 17 million units worldwide, Take-Two said in its Q2 earnings release today.

suck it,haters
cat

maxy

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #145 on: June 09, 2010, 04:57:16 AM »

I think its more like suck it 17 million customers since you all bought a shitty game.
Typical gaf response,spoiler also
spoiler (click to show/hide)
shitty
[close]
:smug


And now,something on topic

GTA4 has many flaws but the biggest one is

Checkpoint system
-a little tip for developers...if you have some shitty missions,fill them with checkpoints so that player will say "ah,shitty design,but it was over quickly"...player will move on and forget about it


Lead character is also so-so,he comes from area near me,in fact he was probably on the "enemy" side...so i understand his native language
The problem is that those few lines are butchered by incompetent voice actor...think Kojima trying to speak English
This just makes him a bit fake immediately at the start of the game.

Relationship thing is meh,combat also,but i looove cars...i could drive there for hours(first person view of course)

Episodes fix lots of those stuff,so Rockstar is listening... :hyper next GTA

I kinda hate TLAD...i don't like motorcycle driving...never finished it

TBOGT,replayed it 3 times...it has two shitty missions,helicopter thing and that club mission near the end...outside of that,I like it a lot
cat

Himu

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #146 on: June 10, 2010, 02:29:49 AM »
Blog This :o
IYKYK

Himu

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #147 on: June 10, 2010, 08:33:44 PM »
Beat Gay Tony. Great game.

I think TLAD had the better story and characters, but Gay Tony had the better writing and dialogue.

TLAD is GTAIV done right, as in, a hyper-realistic version of GTA that strives for realism more so than anything else. Gay Tony is like a mix of old, traditional GTA and the newer GTA in that it strives for realism but does so in a cartoon-ish manner.

I think that Rockstar listened to fan complaints with GTA4 and made Gay Tony and TLAD better than the original game, and as a result, I think the next GTA will be more in line with what was presented in Gay Tony but in a whole new package. Gay Tony is obviously the direction they're going to take the series in the next game, and I can't wait to see the results.

I can't say which game I liked more though. I'd say they're about on par with each other, but they're definitely better than GTA4.
IYKYK

Himu

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #148 on: June 10, 2010, 09:13:46 PM »
Changes I'd like to see in the next GTA:

1. No more talking main characters. These main characters suck. Like, Luis, he is an enigma. He's the co-owner of one of the most popular clubs in Liberty City and yet kills people for random goons, pushes drugs and more. Your motivations for doing these things make no sense, and this makes getting involved in missions painful. Rockstar would have been wise to revolve Gay Tony entirely around the club culture and nightlife of the city, rather than taking out random people for people you don't know. But instead, you play as an avatar who has the personality of a brick wall.

It's not like Vice City, where Tommy Vercetti threatens everyone and the only reason he takes on those crappy low-tier missions at the beginning is because he's a low-tier goon and has to get to the top. Even then he's arrogant and doesn't give a fuck about ANYONE. This makes Tommy Vercetti an awesome main character and one that is perfect for the GTA formula. Because otherwise, you're stuck with a CJ, or a Luis, or that guy from Vice City Stories who bitch bitch bitch and all about emotions when all I want to do is take missions from the lowest of the low. Once Tommy Vercetti becomes the top dog of Vice City, you rarely ever take on random missions where you kill random people unless it's business related. Once he's the top dog, the missions revolve around being the top dog: property missions, buying businesses and taking the mantle as leader.

The main characters in GTA games, are rarely ever the highlight of the story or characters, Vice City aside, for reasons aforementioned. In fact, the main characters flat out suck. This is why in the next GTA I want a return to mute characters. Make it about a bunch of criminals you work for and their downfalls, their betrayals. Not about some dude who's supposedly above this crap, and yet somehow kills a dude for a measly $50 bucks. I want to play as an unknown outlaw, who has no voice; a henchmen for hire who does any job. So baysuckly, just like GTA1-3. PLEASE.

And...better yet, screw story because I'd like...

2. Fully customizable characters, Saints Row style. At this point in time, there has been no female main character in GTA. With this, that's a possibility. I think that GTA should look into fully customizable characters. Let it be my character so it can feel like MY story.

3. Make the city fun to explore. Pre-release GTAIV interviews had the guys at Rockstar saying that they felt San Andreas was too spread out, and had too much stuff to do around a the whole state. They said they fixed this by making the city in GTAIV more compact with more content close together. This was grade A bullshit. The city in GTAIV is not fun to drive around at all. For one thing, it's too large, which makes driving a chore when you consider missions pop up on one side of the city when you're on the other side of the map. The car physics suck, and it's not fun to drive around the city itself, so you end up taking the taxi. This is an issue when the game is titled Grand Theft Auto. The next GTA should personally - and this is just my opinion - have two islands - ala Vice City. One smaller island and one LARGER island where the bulk of the game takes place.

4. Tighten the car physics, they stink. Better yet, take that "if you're driving too fast and end up hitting a wall, you fly out the window cuz it's realistic!!!! LOL" stuff too. Realistic != fun. Arcade physics and controls PLEASE. No one wants realistic controls in a city wide car chase.

5. Tighten the controls. This goes beyond aiming controls. Make everything FASTER. It takes 99 seconds for someone to get in a car in GTA4, by that time you've lost half your life because the car entry animation is so long. Make it faster. Why should anyone have to hold x/a to jog? Hold slight to walk, hold hard to jog, hold x/a to run -- simple. Please no more "hold LT/L2 to aim stuff". Actually, that should be there, but a reticule should active anytime the player is shooting. So I should be able to "blind fire" when running. Having to stop and aim to shoot makes the action feel outdated. Even Mass Effect 2 is a better shooter than this.

6. Since Rockstar wants a return to more ridiculous GTA, this should allow for more creative missions like Espresso-2-Go! from GTA3. Espresso 2 Go is a mission where you have to know the city's layout by heart, know the best shortcuts, and execute a plan in order to pass. I can't think of anything like that in any of the three GTA4 games. Period.

7. Change the Wanted System. I'll be frank, the wanted system in GTA4 is balls. It takes away any sense of tension in the chases. In the past, the chases actually felt like chases. In order to get rid of those dreaded stars, memorizing the city layout for police bribes was crucial. In GTA4, all you have to do is drive outside the circle, but the process is incredibly tedious since your wanted status is renewed again if you encounter another cop. This makes the chases simply "get outside the circle and hope you don't encounter any police respawns" which is far from strategic or remotely fun. It also takes away one of the best things about GTA: the chases. Knowing the layout, knowing the best shortcuts and alley ways makes the police chases fun. Sure, they weren't perfect, but they were fun. I can't say the same for the current wanted system.

Overall, I think the basics laid in Gay Tony show some promise, but they still got some work to do to make GTA even remotely approaching the top sandbox game series anymore.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2010, 09:19:14 PM by Himuro »
IYKYK

Stoney Mason

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #149 on: June 10, 2010, 10:01:46 PM »
1.) They are not gonna go back to mute lead characters. I don't want them to either.
2.) I don't have a problem with fully customizable characters although I doubt they will do that for future GTA's. They have moved to specifically wanting to tell specific stories with specific characters ala final fantasy
3.) Never have agreed or even really understood your "too big" argument but I agree more fun stuff to do is always welcome. RDR does a good game of integrating the extra stuff. Extra stuff is always just that for me. Extra. But RDR does a really fresh job of masking that stuff and making it seem really interesting.
4.) Never had a problem with the car controls myself but I realize I'm in the minority in that opinion on message boards. I hope they don't simply make them like Saints Row or something although there are a few features they could take from the cars in that franchise.
5.) Controls have been poor in every GTA game. I always hope they get improved. Hopefully they finally will. RDR controls are better but still not great. They are at least adequate though.
6.) I'm fine in general with just fun missions as a description. The missions in the two expansions are generally more in the direction I would like to see future GTA's go.
7.) The wanted system in GTA 4 and RDR in general is very boring. I would like to see more work in this area in general.

As a general rule the Rockstar open world games (along with Saints Row and Red Faction) are the only open world games I like. I'm not a fan of pure open world sandbox games like Crackdown, or Just Cause. The latter direction isn't a direction I would like to see them go.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2010, 10:04:38 PM by Stoney Mason »

Himu

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #150 on: June 10, 2010, 10:19:58 PM »
I'm not saying I want them to head in a full open-world game. Don't get me wrong.

And yeah, I realize I'm in the minority when it comes to mute characters. I guess it wouldn't be much of a problem for me if the characters and their goals remained consistent, like Tommy. Tommy is always an arrogant fuck, from beginning to end. And while some of his motives change, they're realistic changes. Like Tommy saying,"Fuck being the pet, I want to be the master" mentality and offing his boss and taking control of his properties and businesses.

But with characters like Luis, they're far less consistent. Luis talks down to other characters constantly, whether it's Evan, or his friends, as if he's in some holier-than-thou situation that lets him do this. But the reality is that he's pushing drugs and working for random Arab "businessmen" when he makes enough money -- legally -- to afford his own high end apartment.

I know, I know; "It's just a game, don't take the story seriously!", but it's hard to do that when it's clear that story is one of the main focal points.
IYKYK

demi

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #151 on: June 10, 2010, 10:21:25 PM »
Things I'd like to see in GTA5:

Make it like Saints Row 2

Done
fat

Stoney Mason

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #152 on: June 10, 2010, 10:23:11 PM »
GTA characters are never consistent. John Marston in RDR isn't consistent although he is probably more consistent than most of the GTA leads. As someone mentioned there is always a disconnect between the actions of a GTA lead character and the missions in a game because the missions are supposed to all be fun and sometimes game fun isn't moral.

The real next step I kinda want to see for all Rockstar games is a kind of branching storyline or morality ala Fallout 3 or Mass Effect or something like that. That is a direction where you can script a guy either being bad or good. That's a lot of work but that is a game I would really love and appreciate.

Himuro are you going to play RDR? I'd be curious about your opinion on that title.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2010, 10:26:27 PM by Stoney Mason »

Himu

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #153 on: June 10, 2010, 10:26:37 PM »
I guess that's my problem. I guess I'd prefer a character who doesn't talk than an inconsistent character who creates a disconnect.

Though I'm certainly far, far in the minority it seems.

As for RDR, bet your ass I'm getting that. Hopefully sometime next month.
IYKYK

Stoney Mason

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #154 on: June 10, 2010, 10:29:52 PM »
I guess that's my problem. I guess I'd prefer a character who doesn't talk than an inconsistent character who creates a disconnect.

Though I'm certainly far, far in the minority it seems.

As for RDR, bet your ass I'm getting that. Hopefully sometime next month.

RDR is interesting because its an evolution of a lot of the ideas in GTA 4 but done better.

cool breeze

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #155 on: June 10, 2010, 10:37:52 PM »
Talking main characters aren't bad.  If there was a change, I would like for them to introduce more choices like you'd find in an RPG.  GTA4 already dabbled with this at times by letting you choose to kill one guy or another.  Of course the overall game would have to be smaller for fit all the possible branches, but I would prefer that in the end.  The neat thing about GTA4 and the episodes is how they establish your place in the world and what types of missions you do depending on the characters.  All other GTA games, Saints Row, and most open world games in general follow the same rags to riches progression.  GTA4 is basically that.  In Gay Tony, Luis has basically made it and you're mostly helping out friends.  In Lost and Damned, you're in a old biker gang and just  trying to get by.  I think it would be cool if the next game is all three, but things change depending on the choices you make.  Instead of a 30 hour game, have it be three 10 hour games or something.  You'll have some cross over in early missions, but they could have a really obvious point early in that puts you on a different path.  One of the choices in GTA4 is
spoiler (click to show/hide)
playboy x or dwayne (I think).  Say you kill Dwayne and Playboy X will introduce you to the other currently successful friends he has.  Kill Playboy X, you roll with Dwayne's old washed up friends.
[close]
 Things like that.  If they wanna go down the road of having a story and things like that as a focus, commit to that stuff.  Let Saints Row 3 handle all the fun open world kill some bitches fun that was in the PS2 games.

Stoney Mason

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #156 on: June 10, 2010, 10:41:20 PM »
Talking main characters aren't bad.  If there was a change, I would like for them to introduce more choices like you'd find in an RPG.  GTA4 already dabbled with this at times by letting you choose to kill one guy or another.  Of course the overall game would have to be smaller for fit all the possible branches, but I would prefer that in the end.  The neat thing about GTA4 and the episodes is how they establish your place in the world and what types of missions you do depending on the characters.  All other GTA games, Saints Row, and most open world games in general follow the same rags to riches progression.  GTA4 is basically that.  In Gay Tony, Luis has basically made it and you're mostly helping out friends.  In Lost and Damned, you're in a old biker gang and just  trying to get by.  I think it would be cool if the next game is all three, but things change depending on the choices you make.  Instead of a 30 hour game, have it be three 10 hour games or something.  You'll have some cross over in early missions, but they could have a really obvious point early in that puts you on a different path.  One of the choices in GTA4 is
spoiler (click to show/hide)
playboy x or dwayne (I think).  Say you kill Dwayne and Playboy X will introduce you to the other currently successful friends he has.  Kill Playboy X, you roll with Dwayne's old washed up friends.
[close]
 Things like that.  If they wanna go down the road of having a story and things like that as a focus, commit to that stuff.  Let Saints Row 3 handle all the fun open world kill some bitches fun that was in the PS2 games.

Yeah that's what I mean about the Fallout 3 stuff. What if instead of a 30 to 40 hour game. You still did that much work but made it like a 10 to 15 hour game with a ton of branching shit. Sort of like Mass Effect or something.

You still do all that work. But instead you just branch it depending on the path instead of just making it a pure linear game. I think that's a pretty interesting way to take it whether Rockstar does it or not. Somebody should do it. So it's now like GTA RPG.

Himu

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #157 on: June 10, 2010, 10:44:59 PM »
 I agree with that. If you want to concentrate on story, concentrate on story. A 10-15 hour game with emphasis on replay value and making choices would be really different for a sandbox game, I think.
IYKYK

chronovore

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #158 on: June 11, 2010, 01:12:09 AM »
Himuro, it sounds like you just need to play more Saints Row. As Rockstar moved toward the goal of "telling the player the story of the main character," Volition has made a conscious, successful effort toward a different goal: creating a world in which the players can tell their own story, through dictating their own appearance, what kind of side jobs they want to do to earn Reputation to continue the story missions, etc. Ironically, the added voice choices for the player-character are part of that freedom of choice, but I also preferred Saints Row 1 where the main character speaks only a single line, each during the final cutscene during each enemy gang's last mission.

RS is clearly wanting to tell specific character's stories, so we'll never see a return to The Mute Bastard/Claude Speed. I liked CJ the best of any of the talking player-characters, but I didn't like his random contextual comments, such as taunts, jeers, apologies, basically anything that played without character interaction. The compliment/insult mechanic was fine because it was player-initiated.

A silent player-character works contextually better for immersing the player in the game world, makes it easier for them to project their own motivations onto their avatar in the world. But it's difficult to build a traditional brand around a city, a vibe, and a cast of characters designed to be killed off by the end of the game. It's sad that Rockstar moved toward traditional ideas of character-as-brand instead of discovering new ways to define brand, particularly since their success came as a result of such an experimental game.

Himu

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #159 on: June 11, 2010, 01:15:33 AM »
I thought GTA3 did a great job with the cast of characters that need to be killed off by the end.

What do you mean by "making a brand"?
IYKYK

chronovore

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #160 on: June 11, 2010, 04:59:11 AM »
Well, I'm kind of talking out of my ass because, even briefly working as a games marketer, I just made it up as I went along and figured out ways to justify my own opinions. (This deviates from normal games marketing by precisely 0.01% as far as I can tell.)

Companies traditionally manage brand in games as defined by character, though it should also be defined by visual, gameplay, or even aural cues; any number of signature styles could be used. A character is the easiest short-term win, which is where marketers drive the consumers' attention.

Disney-as-brand is not just Mickey Mouse, but the Disney signature logo, the D itself, and a shiny, clean, round, largely primary-colored, safe aesthetic which most people find readily recognizable. Despite a myriad of different styles across dozens of Disney movies, it's commonly trivial to tell the difference between a Disney film and any other studio's.

Here's a really insightful, short video piece on "brand" as a concept:
http://www.zefrank.com/theshow/archives/2006/08/082906.html

Nike, Apple, Disney, Levi's, even EA have managed to take single vector brands and grow them into these multiplatform experiences. Rockstar has a chance to build out GTA into something bigger and new, but instead of exploring what they've brought to games as a form, they're kind of hung up on telling movie-like stories. They even tried to be much more serious, and stepped away from their quirkiness for GTA IV (as you've mentioned). I'm happy they're going back to it, as I think it's what interests me as much about their brand as the open ended gameplay.

dicklaurent

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #161 on: June 11, 2010, 05:35:51 AM »
nice.

been trying to play through the biker episode ever since those came out for pc. can't believe how boring this shit is. I liked gta4 ok overall, it really dragged for about the last half of the story missions. but got through that without too much pain. this is just atrocious though. hopefully the gay episode is a bit better, if I ever get to it.

probably didn't help that I played through red dead redemption in the middle of trying to play this either. rockstar north completely destroyed and shamed by rockstar san diego, didn't expect that
PCP

chronovore

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #162 on: June 11, 2010, 09:25:26 AM »
Yeah, I think everyone's surprised by how good RDR is. Most likely, especially Rockstar North and NYC...

chronovore

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #163 on: September 27, 2010, 07:35:43 PM »
RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE, GTA IV EPISODES THREAD!

I posted these, but figured if I'm going to spend a few more hours finishing TLAD, I might as well record it in this dedicated thread.
I've played too damned much Red Dead Redemption multiplayer, and felt like checking out the widespread claim that the controls and animation simply make RDR a "Grand Theft Old West." -- so I went back and played a couple hours of GTA IV multiplayer. TLDR version: a number of marginal differences add up to make GTA IV un-fun.

Anyone complaining that the RDR controls and responsiveness are identical to GTA IV, just shut your bitch mouth now. Anyone who claims the engine is the same, shut your pie hole.

The first thing I noticed is the default camera is way, way pulled back from the character, making him a smaller part of the overall scene, and coupled with Euphoria or whatever the "leaning middleware" is, making it harder to navigate obstacles. Immediately after that, I noticed F R A M E R A T E. Fraaaaaaaaaame-raaaaaaaaaaaaaaate. Oh, it's rough. I spent a good portion of time just trying to get used to predicting where my camera would be pointed during aiming. Speaking of the GTA-style auto-aim, it is improved as well; the mechanic is largely similar, but the snap-to angle of tolerance is easier to deal with, especially considering the framerate problem.

Also noticed that all of the online menus are less easy to understand exactly what's happening. There is a big 5/16 in the upper right corner, though the participating player lobby is on the left side of the screen. The game shows your current total money/XP, but not what the next level's required total or remaining-to-next-level is.

Most egregiously unthinking when considering the online "community," the randomly chosen host has complete power over what rules are in effect for the next game, including traffic density, police presence, pedestrian presence, duration, what strength level of weaponry will appear, and the real game-changer: auto-aim on/off.

There's nothing like having some spastic 12 year old decide at the last instant that he wants a 10,000 XP limit game (no time limit!) only throwing Sticky Bombs. Or suddenly find out after 5 games with auto-aim on, that the most recent host has decided for none. I prefer RDR's multiplayer which has been crafted around predetermined weapon sets, which have separate but valid win conditions.

Most strangely of all, with all the effort which must have gone into Races, there are only points awarded for first and second place. I may have seen money for third, but there's not even a consolation prize for anything past third. That makes sense in terms of authentic race podium presentation, but not for an online game. There are so many ways they could have tossed out $50 or even $10 increments for items they're already measuring and reporting, encouraging people to play more: clear a checkpoint without taking car damage, fastest lap, fastest time to clear a checkpoint, beating your previous best time during any of those, airtime during jumps, completing the race...  It's like they don't want anyone to play anything other than Deathmatch.

Oddly, more people were playing it than Deathmatch. There were always full lobbies for races, which emptied out as people quick halfway through the race if it looked even a little like they might not win. I was in a three person race where the other guy was clearly going to win, and he even held up for a little bit, just to keep it seeming competitive. He was either having fun, or just wondering why I didn't quit like everyone else.
Now that the double-XP weekend for RDR is over, I'm taking a break... and going back to GTA IV: Lost and Damned to try and wrap that up. Take everything I said earlier about unresponsive controls, and add to it the complete disconnection between the LASER ACCURACY of its pretend gunplay and then divide it by the unforgivingly SLOPPY DRIVING PHYSICS. The resulting fraction represents the inconsistency of the gameplay world. You get a game where it is easier to shoot the eyeball out of a bad guy at 100m than it is to turn a corner within the speed limit in a standard car.

Despite many people saying the game is ugly, I still think it's an incredibly lush, well-realized urban environment. It's a stunning accomplishment. RDR is even more stunning, but that's what two years of engine progression, and optimization against a different goal will provide.

I played some more of this last night, ended up enjoying myself during bike races and gang wars, once I re-acclimatized to the control scheme. It takes a surprising amount of time to readjust to the clunk. Clunk, clunk. I was stunned to find myself in first place in a race because the AI was unable to deal with a jump the designers had put in, which sent most of the AI riders into the ocean. I was even more surprised to hit a very tiny bump on my bike, only to have the physics engine interpret it to send me twice as high as the actual jump, as well as flipping me upside-down.

Cornering and braking, it's funny how unforgiving bikes are at low speeds. Sure would be nice if you could restart races like you can restart missions after failing out. I don't need a lot of handholding, but when going to a marker requires that you also have a bike, when the game is doing a load routine prior to the race, providing the player with a bike if they don't have one should be a gimme.

The snap-to on the weapons is even more crazy. There is probably a smoothing algorithm for the camera, but with the framerate issues, it looks like pulling LT/L2 just POPS the camera to the new enemy on the next screen refresh. Or maybe it is design to pop, instead of mimicking human aiming movement.


Also, I forgot how bad GTA4's grenades are. You throw a grenade at a group of dudes, and they get right back up.  :lol
Dude, you are so right. The only time they're less useful is in multiplayer.

Stoney Mason

  • So Long and thanks for all the fish
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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #164 on: September 27, 2010, 08:22:09 PM »
I beat Gay Tony a few weeks ago. I thought TLAD was much better. The mission design on Gay Tony was very frustrating for me.

Himu

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #165 on: September 27, 2010, 08:49:42 PM »
Agreed. Too many copter missions. TLAD fo lyfe.
IYKYK

Don Flamenco

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #166 on: September 27, 2010, 09:21:56 PM »
what is this shit?  "Himu buys..."    Nobody knows you, ho :pimp

chronovore

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #167 on: September 27, 2010, 09:31:14 PM »
I beat Gay Tony a few weeks ago. I thought TLAD was much better. The mission design on Gay Tony was very frustrating for me.
That's interesting, I may be the opposite: I had a lot of fun in Gay Tony, and abandoned TLAD midway because it felt so dry and dark overall. Or maybe I was just not grooving on the control scheme. Every time I go back to GTA IV-anything from another open world game, just moving the character around feels like I'm wading through mud, fighting for every yard gained.

But I particularly had a lot of fun in Gay Tony's last mission, once I got out of the nightclub. The sequence in the nightclub required just a little bit too much awareness of the two lines the enemies could come through, one of which is largely out of sight from the required position -and- allows for enemies to come up the single approach. They could have made it more unfair by giving any of them grenades I suppose, so I should count my blessings.

Or it could just be that the last mission succeeded in not being so disgustingly overboard and difficult as Nico's last mission in GTA IV.

The TLAD missions appear to have stalled; I'm not sure what's going on, but I've only got Gang Wars and Races on my map. Maybe I have to finish a few of those before bosses show up again. Or maybe I'm supposed to call someone on my phone to get it rolling. Or maybe I neet to visit TW@ Cafe and use teh internets. But the few missions I've done have been "drive there. now kill those guys." That's pretty much what Gang Wars are too, so I'm not sure what the difference will be when the missions resume.  

chronovore

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #168 on: September 28, 2010, 11:26:05 AM »
Played a heap more tonight, became even more adjusted to the controls and framerate. Almost feels normal, almost back to when this was all I was playing in 2008. But there was point where I found myself on foot again, and just thought, "Oh, man, come ON. This is supposed to be a sprint? Am I hobbled?"

Other than that, I think I'm back on this (iron) horse, will play to completion. May even try to 80% the Gay Tony missions while this is taking up muscle memory space.

chronovore

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Chrono finishes GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #169 on: September 30, 2010, 11:30:48 AM »
Proving my own idiocy, I spent tonight's session going for the "25 Gang Wars" 'cheev, only to find out that (a) it's "25 Drug Wars" and (b) part of Ballad of Gay Tony -and- (c) I already popped it a long time ago.

There /is/ a 'cheev for getting two brothers up to "full toughness" which happens during Gang Wars, and I managed that by the 18th one. I guess I've got a lot of cash to spend on rocket launcher rounds now.

During bike races, I have been racing to win, which generally involves staying out of bat reach. Any advice for knocking bikers off their bikes during races to get the "beating off 69 bikers" Achievement?

Edit: NVM, I'd entirely forgotten the bat can be "charged" by holding the button down longer. It's a piece of cake now that I'm not giving little baby swings.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2010, 08:05:03 AM by chronovore »

chronovore

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #170 on: October 02, 2010, 12:07:38 PM »
OK, I'm full up on the Lost and Damned 'cheevs, finished it tonight. The missions were pretty good; much more tied into the main GTA IV story than Gay Tony's, though I'll state for the record that I'm now well and truly sick of those cursed diamonds. They're cursed, I get it.

Not sure if I need to spoiler this or not, but to be on the safe side:
spoiler (click to show/hide)
I expected a bigger revelation about Billy than "drugs are bad, he's crazy and will betray us all to the courts!"

The "drugs are bad" message is carried out additionally through Ashley, though. Man, what a messed up woman. After the main story, I called people to see who was still active; the Ashley call was pretty good: she's just a messed up junkie, and Johnny is finally done with her.

It's weird the way they kill off Jim; he was being tortured, but he was the most active person in the escape from Ray, and they write him off by Ashley telling Johnny about it. It was so lame that I immediately thought it was some kind of ruse, and Jim would show up again later. Nope? Oh, well.

The supposed "betrayal" at the Chinese deal doesn't make any sense. It seems like Billy sets up Johnny, once the cutscene in Gay Tony's "Chinese Takeout" is viewed, but it's unclear how Billy gets nabbed, with Brian, and why the cops are there. Maybe the Chinese called them.

Actually, the way Jim acts in some missions, I thought he was the one who set up Billy, and positioned Johnny to take over. Jim gets up in Billy's face more than anyone else, and is the most willing to confront Billy about his stupidity and violence making things more difficult for the club. Jim clearly likes Johnny, it wouldn't have surprised me if Jim had set the whole situation up so Johnny K would be in charge.

There was no explanation for why fat whiner Brian suddenly had a posse of his own and was immediately going to murder Johnny K. and other "brothers."
[close]

Anyway, that was fun. It feels like a more deep and complex story than GTA IV, while having more coherency. Or maybe I'm reading too much into it.

There weren't any pursue-and-kill missions which had noticeable periods where the target was impervious. There weren't any missions where the controls changed context or a new skill was needed, or the mission would be failed. The races went through in areas of Liberty City I'd never seen before, which really surprised me. Some of the missions also ended in areas with which I was entirely unfamiliar. I thought I knew LC like the back of my hand, but I have a lot to learn still.

+100 GamerScore for finishing the story, +50 earlier for 69 biker knockoffs. I like how this DLC keeps its 'cheevs a reasonable extension of the main game, where Gay Tony turns it up to grotesque difficulty levels to get all 250/250 there. I might continue to play this, get 80% on all missions. I'm not going for 100% though. That's just annoying.

And I'm never going to have full gamerscore on GTA IV anyway, because the vanilla game's multiplayer Achievements are out of reach.

ManaByte

  • I must hurry back to my comic book store, where I dispense the insults rather than absorb them.
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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #171 on: October 05, 2010, 10:05:13 AM »
I have them on the PC, but the port still sucks so bad I'm buying this at the end of the month:

CBG

chronovore

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #172 on: October 05, 2010, 10:08:17 AM »
How much?

Raban

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #173 on: October 05, 2010, 12:13:53 PM »
The PC port is amazing, your PC sucks, Manabyte. I beat GTAIV, LaD and TBoGT all on my PC with the settings maxed out (except draw distance) and I never went under 60fps.

chronovore

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Re: Returning to Liberty City: Himu buys GTAIV Episodes
« Reply #174 on: October 06, 2010, 11:50:30 AM »
I'm kinda wishing I'd waited for this October "spending 2400 gets you 800 spacebucks" promotion, since these were 1600 points each. I've only just now finished TLAD, and Gay Tony I could have waited on, esp. since I'm re-playing all the missions now.
/cheap-with-my-points

Ironically, or perhaps just foolishly, I am tempted by the bundle, just for getting the additional '80s flashback channel included with Liberty City Stories disc version exclusive.