The Official Psychoanalysis GAF Thread

[Eel O'Brian]

n/m, just read the thread you were referring to

i think my pc will be fine for a while, there's always a generational transition period with games where they aren't taking full advantage of the new tech (look at stuff like condemned and gun from when 360 launched), probably have to turn down effects, but by the time games really start putting a beating on my system i'll be ready for something new anyway

[Shaka Khan]

Why you snubbing me baby?

I'm not snubbing you bae, I just read the message. I'll agree that it was an entertaining thread, with a half right conclusion reached through iffy premises. I'm not sure if looking at 2005 is the best way to prove your point of "people thinking their existing rigs will carry them to the finish line are wrong."

I'm more interested in why you felt the need to argue that point. Were there a high number of people making those claims?

Edit: fixed this broken post.

[Momo]

I dunno I think if MS wants to dominate they will have to use some trick like this. Just come up with some new great and friendly architechture that's optimized for gaming.

This is different then Sonys approach with just making some random powerfull but flawed setup.

That would alienate devs. With novelty comes unfamiliarity and it will be a repeat of the PS2/PS3 "more in the tank" situations. Also middleware would have to be retooled and the latest iterations of the big engines - Cryengine/UE/Frostbyte/iD Tech are already "next gen compatible" telling me they expect a familiar architecture. It would be quite the turnaround if Sony goes with the familiar and MS goes with the novel, all things being equal we'd likely see the PS4 being the target platform for most games and the 720 being left paddling in a sea of worse ports - where the PS3 was this gen.

[Cerveza mas fina]

I've just got the impression in a lot of next gen threads that people seemed to think that next gen consoles won't bring them nothing good since they already have awesomeorz PC. Its just super annoying and there is no one to tell them otherwise on GAF it seems cause PC gamers are the news kings there it seems.

I agree comparing to 2005 is not ideal, but it's what we have. It's not fair to say Nintendo won't get good 3rd party support based on last gen either, but we all know it's true right?

I dunno I think if MS wants to dominate they will have to use some trick like this. Just come up with some new great and friendly architechture that's optimized for gaming.

This is different then Sonys approach with just making some random powerfull but flawed setup.

That would alienate devs. With novelty comes unfamiliarity and it will be a repeat of the PS2/PS3 "more in the tank" situations. Also middleware would have to be retooled and the latest iterations of the big engines - Cryengine/UE/Frostbyte/iD Tech are already "next gen compatible" telling me they expect a familiar architecture. It would be quite the turnaround if Sony goes with the familiar and MS goes with the novel, all things being equal we'd likely see the PS4 being the target platform for most games and the 720 being left paddling in a sea of worse ports - where the PS3 was this gen.

Well I don't think it will be something like Cell BS, but just some novel optimisation that PC's don't have but would scale well with current tools. MS aren't stupid.

[Momo]

MS aren't stupid.

[Cerveza mas fina]

The real tragedy is I said aren't instead of isn't Momo.

[Great Rumbler]

The real tragedy is I said aren't instead of isn't Momo.

Fifty lashes with a whip for you, Lager!

[headwalk]

I've just got the impression in a lot of next gen threads that people seemed to think that next gen consoles won't bring them nothing good since they already have awesomeorz PC. Its just super annoying and there is no one to tell them otherwise on GAF it seems cause PC gamers are the news kings there it seems.

I agree comparing to 2005 is not ideal, but it's what we have. It's not fair to say Nintendo won't get good 3rd party support based on last gen either, but we all know it's true right?

what we have is a very clear idea of the requirements and trends of performance home entertainment tech in 2012, we don't need to drag up 2005's corpse, put some lipstick on it and force it to sing.

microsoft and sony have no desire nor need to compete for people who have the means to build, accommodate and maintain gaming PCs. they just need to stave off the inevitable day where the only middle man anyone needs between them and their 120" transparent LED wallpaper is their iPad.

gaming will again be the trojan horse, but it's a captive audience. they aren't sweating digital foundry comparisons with gaming rigs. nor should you.

[Momo]

Arent is acceptable grammar since MS is(are) both an entity and a group of individuals.

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[close]

[Kabouter]

I've just got the impression in a lot of next gen threads that people seemed to think that next gen consoles won't bring them nothing good since they already have awesomeorz PC. Its just super annoying and there is no one to tell them otherwise on GAF it seems cause PC gamers are the news kings there it seems.

I agree comparing to 2005 is not ideal, but it's what we have. It's not fair to say Nintendo won't get good 3rd party support based on last gen either, but we all know it's true right?

Well, with Nintendo there is every reason to believe the third party situation will remain the same because the conditions that were responsible for that situation in the first place have largely remained the same.

To what degree that's true for the relationship in power between PC and consoles remains to be seen, but it seems likely that it will at least be true to a significant degree. We do know that the low sales figures of PC games do not warrant a large effort on the part of a developer/publisher on making a game run better on different PC configurations. What also hasn't changed is that the types of games most likely to stress a gaming PC the most are also the ones played largely by people who have high-end PCs anyway, so the incentive for developers to really push for optimization on the PC side of things just isn't really there, since much of their target audience can play their cheap port anyway.

Even with that in mind though, it's hard to say where PC gaming will even be in a few years. Between Steam boxes, the ever dwindling sales of desktop computers and the resulting reduced efforts of hardware manufacturers in that segment and the popularity of free to play titles, PC gaming might not look anything like what it does now in a few years anyway.

[MCD]

That was a gaffot post right there, Momo.

[Momo]

That was a gaffot post right there, Momo.

It's unarguably one of the most divisive OSes for both devs and consumers, no amount of spin can change that. 

[Cerveza mas fina]

Kabouter as a pc guy yourself I see a lot of people saying PC hardware has changed, what am i missing here?

Your point about the dwindling desktop sales is something i havent even thought about in this regard.

Im curious if F2P will make a transition from ios/pc to consoles.

[Purple Filth]

Steve thoroughly eviscerated that guy but it doesn't matter; that guy is still going to believe PR and bullshit "industy insider" sources.  I was around during the Dreamcast days, I know how desperate fanboys can get.

and thats the thing Steve is just wasting his time on that idiot.

[Tasty]

MS aren't stupid.

(Image removed from quote.)

[Kabouter]

Kabouter as a pc guy yourself I see a lot of people saying PC hardware has changed, what am i missing here?

Your point about the dwindling desktop sales is something i havent even thought about in this regard.

Im curious if F2P will make a transition from ios/pc to consoles.

Well what has changed is that PC GPUs, generally still the main determinant of performance, consume far more power and take up far more space than GPUs did around 2004-2005. Graphics cards these days are massive hungry beasts. It seems unlikely they'll make sufficient efficiency gains at reasonable cost for the new consoles to have GPUs that achieve the power the 360 GPU had compared to PC contemporaries. For reference, the 7800GTX you mention had a TDP of 81W, a current high-end GTX 680 has a TDP of 195W, a high-end AMD 7970 has a TDP of 250W. Neither is a dual-GPU card it should be noted.

For CPUs things haven't changed too much, if anything power consumption has gone down there, so they should be able to push considerably more there, and I fully expect them to.

And F2P will definitely make that transition, bet on Sony and Microsoft accommodating F2P as best they can. They aren't going to ignore the money being made there.

[Don Flamenco]

Arent is acceptable grammar since MS is(are) both an entity and a group of individuals.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

[close]

i don't think that works for companies.  you'd have to specify the people who work at microsoft. 

i'll riskily post this without googling it first and get told

[Momo]

The people who work at microsoft are
Microsoft are

The thing about Microsoft is
Microsoft is

My argument is the use of either are or is defines how you are using the term, not the term itself.  Lager can use the shield of intent successfully there (well until he admitted his faux pas)



EDIT: I'm going to capitulate pretty easily here btw, I dont want this to become my beard burning NDA/wrestling post sequence.

[Cerveza mas fina]

So the main issue is size and heat right?

What if they go a more cpu heavy route? Or just increase the size of the box again? I mean theres nothing stopping them there right besides looks.

It wouldnt be against the trend either

[archnemesis]

A larger case also means increased costs for shipping/handling and less units on store shelves.

[Cerveza mas fina]

Is that really a real issue. WiiU has a lot units on store shelves right now... Its tiny and uses very little wattsies.

Whole warehouses full of em!

[archnemesis]

I'm sure the first revision of both new next-gen consoles will feature huge cases, but yes, companies actually save a bunch of money on reducing weight and size.

[Kabouter]

So the main issue is size and heat right?

What if they go a more cpu heavy route? Or just increase the size of the box again? I mean theres nothing stopping them there right besides looks.

It wouldnt be against the trend either

[img]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-lrL-mTefIiQ/TeglIop0ASI/AAAAAAAAAK4/oeMwtN-ZCt0/s1600/console-comparison-ps3-xbox-360-wii.jpg[img]

They won't go for a much larger box, simply because it has to reasonably fit in people's media centres. Of course there's also the logistical and retail considerations mentioned earlier. Then you have the extra cost of all the additional cooling elements you'd have to include, and the simple fact that when put in a media centre along with other electronics, often in a relatively small and closed space, things are going to overheat like mad if they consume a ton of power.

I expect them to put more focus on CPU this time yes simply because of those consideration, though I don't think the GPU will be a slouch in either the PS4 or Xbox 3.

[Don Flamenco]

The people who work at microsoft are
Microsoft are

The thing about Microsoft is
Microsoft is

My argument is the use of either are or is defines how you are using the term, not the term itself.  Lager can use the shield of intent successfully there (well until he admitted his faux pas)



EDIT: I'm going to capitulate pretty easily here btw, I dont want this to become my beard burning NDA/wrestling post sequence.

that's good because it's not about the grammar for me, it's about winning!

nah, I see what you mean.  "microsoft are" just sounds bad to me.  I wouldn't use it in a paper, i guess.

[Cerveza mas fina]

Yeah i know every little bit helps, but i dont think a bigger case is a def no no. Unless focus testing and research would suggest people wont buy beyond a certain size (xbox1/ps3)

Edit after your post: sure the media centre thing, but what other electronics? Br player? Tv setup box? I think thats the only other thing that could be there and from what weve been seeing MS might want to take tv box head on too. (But then still, what other devices are there nowadays?)

The cpu route might be interesting I have to admit. 12 cores? What would be the impact of that? More cores but weaker gpu.

If MS and Sony go heavy CPU this will impact development on pcs, it will set the tone.

[Don Flamenco]

I could see an american preferring an X-box 1 to a PS2 because it's heftier and feels more solid. 

you know, a man's system 

[Great Rumbler]

The people who work at microsoft are
Microsoft are

The thing about Microsoft is
Microsoft is

My argument is the use of either are or is defines how you are using the term, not the term itself.  Lager can use the shield of intent successfully there (well until he admitted his faux pas)

The sentences have a different focus in terms of subject, though. One is specifically discussing the employees of the company [which would be plural], while the other is discussing some attribute of the company itself [which is a singular entity]. Corporations are people, my friend.

[Cerveza mas fina]

Stop discussing my shitty error you meanies

[Momo]

The people who work at microsoft are
Microsoft are

The thing about Microsoft is
Microsoft is

My argument is the use of either are or is defines how you are using the term, not the term itself.  Lager can use the shield of intent successfully there (well until he admitted his faux pas)

The sentences have a different focus in terms of subject, though. One is specifically discussing the employees of the company [which would be plural], while the other is discussing some attribute of the company itself [which is a singular entity]. Corporations are people, my friend.

Legally they are people so I can understand it in contract documents and such, in natural language what is a corporation but a group of people? I'll make my example again but a bit clearer.

Microsoft is a hell of an engineering house.
Microsoft are a hell of an engineering house.

One case I refer to the company as an entity the other the company as a collection of staff. Either flies for me really and pretty much ends up having the same meaning.

Premium

[Don Flamenco]

"microsoft are" is a bit awkward to me...i wouldn't use it in a paper.  Actually, i think we were specifically told not to use that in my legal writing courses.   i dunno, i see how both work

[Great Rumbler]

The people who work at microsoft are
Microsoft are

The thing about Microsoft is
Microsoft is

My argument is the use of either are or is defines how you are using the term, not the term itself.  Lager can use the shield of intent successfully there (well until he admitted his faux pas)

The sentences have a different focus in terms of subject, though. One is specifically discussing the employees of the company [which would be plural], while the other is discussing some attribute of the company itself [which is a singular entity]. Corporations are people, my friend.

Legally they are people so I can understand it in contract documents and such, in natural language what is a corporation but a group of people? I'll make my example again but a bit clearer.

Microsoft is a hell of an engineering house.
Microsoft are a hell of an engineering house.

One case I refer to the company as an entity the other the company as a collection of staff. Either flies for me really and pretty much ends up having the same meaning.

Premium

"A flock of geese is an amazing sight."

"Geese are amazing animals."

Same logic applies here. A company is a singular entity, which can still be made of several parts. You could also use this example:

"My body is]/i] is strong."

"My arms are strong."

The body [or the corporation] is the the whole [and therefore singular], whereas the members [or employees] are plural.

[Steve Youngblood]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=506649&page=33

Steve what the fuck are you doing 

I don't know. I honestly don't know. It was just the equivalent of a trainwreck I couldn't not look at.

[Timber]

Microsoft is a collective noun and you can use both is and are. That's all there is to it.

[Himu]

Who does the crazy posts better, me or Himu.

nothing i posted last night was "crazy"

[Shadow Mod]

I hate that metro shit so much. No fucking hierarchy what so ever and how do I find shit. Plus the fuck you need some big ass box for, for two fucking words. Same reason I hate the god damn mm lobbies in Halo 4. Big ass boxes that take up real estate when you could be showing me info that fucking matters. Scroll off the screen because we can't do previous Halo UIs, gotta reinvent the wheel, and make that a fucking box too so it's work to get anywhere.

[Cascade]

Mr Nyarlathotep really is a ridiculously annoying Nintenyearold.

[Verdigris Murder]

Microsoft is a collective noun and you can use both is and are. That's all there is to it.

I've actually thought about the likelihood of MS using some sort of MMO FPS thing to soften the GOLD exclusive Live membership sub/simpleton tax in the next iteration until maybe 6 years after that.

[Timber]

Well yeah, I guess there's that, too.

[Himu]

I hate that metro shit so much. No fucking hierarchy what so ever and how do I find shit. Plus the fuck you need some big ass box for, for two fucking words. Same reason I hate the god damn mm lobbies in Halo 4. Big ass boxes that take up real estate when you could be showing me info that fucking matters. Scroll off the screen because we can't do previous Halo UIs, gotta reinvent the wheel, and make that a fucking box too so it's work to get anywhere.

look at this nerd who can't even manage to learn how to customize a start menu

ahahahaha

[Verdigris Murder]

Was Waio 64 permabanned ? That's a bad move IMHO.

[Himu]

bubububu can't find shit

how do i use kompyuta

[Shadow Mod]

I hate that metro shit so much. No fucking hierarchy what so ever and how do I find shit. Plus the fuck you need some big ass box for, for two fucking words. Same reason I hate the god damn mm lobbies in Halo 4. Big ass boxes that take up real estate when you could be showing me info that fucking matters. Scroll off the screen because we can't do previous Halo UIs, gotta reinvent the wheel, and make that a fucking box too so it's work to get anywhere.

look at this nerd who can't even manage to learn how to customize a start menu

ahahahaha

(Image removed from quote.)

Still seems unnecessary. I just go down to the dock because I'm constantly flipping from one program to another.  What happens when you eventually add more programs? Smaller squares? lol.

[Steve Youngblood]

Here's the thread:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=45459746&highlight=#post45459746

My head hurts reading that.

[Himu]

Go down the dock because I'm constantly flipping from one program to another? What does that even MEAN?

You don't even NEED all your programs to your start screen. Just add what you need to use. Want access to more programs? Simply type the name of the program and you will get an instant search result, or better yet, press windows key + q to get instant access to every application you have installed. That is faster than clicking start, click All Programs, and scrolling down the list of installed crap.

Fucking nerds.

[Shadow Mod]

I just don't get what illegal search and seizure has to do with being the kind of moron who leaves their ID in their car. I always carry it in my wallet.

Go down the dock because I'm constantly flipping from one program to another? What does that even MEAN?

You don't even NEED all your programs to your start screen. Just add what you need to use. Want access to more programs? Simply type the name of the program and you will get an instant search result, or better yet, press windows key + q to get instant access to every application you have installed. That is faster than clicking start, click All Programs, and scrolling down the list of installed crap.

Fucking nerds.

My point was I don't really need that screen if I just click on a few programs already in my dock and switch between them. What's the point of that screen? Some sort of short cut to opening the programs?

[Himu]

I just don't get what illegal search and seizure has to do with being the kind of moron who leaves their ID in their car. I always carry it in my wallet.

Go down the dock because I'm constantly flipping from one program to another? What does that even MEAN?

You don't even NEED all your programs to your start screen. Just add what you need to use. Want access to more programs? Simply type the name of the program and you will get an instant search result, or better yet, press windows key + q to get instant access to every application you have installed. That is faster than clicking start, click All Programs, and scrolling down the list of installed crap.

Fucking nerds.

My point was I don't really need that screen if I just click on a few programs already in my dock and switch between them. What's the point of that screen? Some sort of short cut to opening the programs?

It's just a start screen to help minimize clutter and organize all of your go to programs into one single place. It works just like the start menu in the past.

Dock? Do you mean taskbar?

[Shadow Mod]

I just don't get what illegal search and seizure has to do with being the kind of moron who leaves their ID in their car. I always carry it in my wallet.

Go down the dock because I'm constantly flipping from one program to another? What does that even MEAN?

You don't even NEED all your programs to your start screen. Just add what you need to use. Want access to more programs? Simply type the name of the program and you will get an instant search result, or better yet, press windows key + q to get instant access to every application you have installed. That is faster than clicking start, click All Programs, and scrolling down the list of installed crap.

Fucking nerds.

My point was I don't really need that screen if I just click on a few programs already in my dock and switch between them. What's the point of that screen? Some sort of short cut to opening the programs?

It's just a start screen to help minimize clutter and organize all of your go to programs into one single place. It works just like the start menu in the past.

Dock? Do you mean taskbar?

Yes taskbar. I started with macs so that's what I think of, oops.

[Himu]

Maybe you'll find out in a year

Date for doc appointment at lgft doc office for hormone replacement therapy is March 13. I go to a lgbt counseling center. According to my therapist, hrt is definitely something I should look into. So we're gonna see how that goes and how my brain chemistry reacts to it.

Psst...I'll share a story. When I was 5 years old I wanted to be Ariel the Mermaid. When I was 10 I called a hospital to tell them to turn me into a girl. 

[Cerveza mas fina]

 

What will be your girls name?

I suggest Aeris

[Himu]

none of your business

[Shaka Khan]

It's gonna be Ariel, duh.

 It's always been Ariel.

[Himu]

Oh my god!!!

STOP GETTING IN MY HEAD!

spoiler (click to show/hide)

I totally wanted to BE Ariel when I was 5 years old

[close]

[Shaka Khan]

none of your business

Throughout the years you've shared some very personal deets and info with these people, TMI even, yet you draw the line at something like this?

[Himu]

Well, it's a real life ramification. I'm not Spencer I don't want Himu-chan tied to any real world thing.

You fuckers have me on facebook. You will find out in a year or more if TEJAS is open enough to change my name through their legal process.

Someone once told me that you can't have your legal name changed unless you get bottom surgery and I don't want that, and apparently it's not in law anymore, so maybe I'll be lucky and not have to go through bullshit.

[Shadow Mod]

He wants the name Shaniqua.

[Himu]

[headwalk]

He wants the name Shaniqua.

no way, he's getting pretty white girl hormones.

[TakingBackSunday]

hey himu, how did you organize your start screen like that?  is there a preferences pane/option screen to do that?  or is it all configurable in the start screen itself

[Himu]

I changed the icons of the programs with an app because ms and other companies are stupid and aren't making icons that fit the aesthetic of their brand new os, but everything else is within the metric of windows 8 usability.

[Shadow Mod]

He wants the name Shaniqua.

no way, he's getting pretty white girl hormones.

Okay then Blair, Madison, or Gwyneth.