Author Topic: A Song of Ice and Fire discussion (Read 51625 times)

Diunx · « **Reply #120 on:** August 08, 2012, 09:07:38 AM »

Obama should take away his passport until the fat cunt finish the books.

Groogrux · « **Reply #121 on:** August 09, 2012, 09:02:05 AM »

In the interview, he said the sixth book wouldn't be published before 2014. It's going to be ten fucking years before this series ever gets finished. I'm thinking Old Guy is right...

Diunx · « **Reply #122 on:** August 09, 2012, 11:08:25 AM »

The last time he gave an estimated the book was released like six years after that so...

Also he only has 300 pages written which is probably the stuff he cut from Dance, that fat bastard.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #123 on:** August 09, 2012, 11:29:04 AM »

Actually he has 200 pages that were removed from ADWD, plus another 200 pages that were written after ADWD's publication; he recently said the new 200 pages aren't finished and can be fiddled with, but are basically close to done.

ADWD is what, 1600 MS pages? Assuming TWOW will be as big, he has 1200 MS pages to go. 2014 sounds more than possible to me. I recently took a glance at his speaking schedule and after Sept 3rd he doesn't have any official events until March 2013; that gives him quite a long period of time to finish the stuff he's working on (a map book, the Westeros history book he's doing with Elio & Lina, and his other editing jobs) while also spending some good time writing TWOW.

Remember, ADWD/AFFC were heavily delayed due to some major sequence problems. First the 5 year gap, then the splitting of ADWD into two books, then the problem with the Knot. He describes the Knot/Dany issue here:

(don't read unless you have finished ADWD)

Quote

Q: Now that we know how the "Meereenese knot" played out, what was the problem with this? For example, was it the order in which Dany met various characters, or who, when, and how someone would try to take the dragons?

A: Now I can explain things. It was a confluence of many, many factors: lets start with the offer from Xaro to give Dany ships, the refusal of which then leads to Qarth's declaration of war. Then there's the marriage of Daenerys to pacify the city. Then there's the arrival of the Yunkish army at the gates of Meereen, there's the order of arrival of various people going her way (Tyrion, Quentyn, Victarion, Aegon, Marwyn, etc.), and then there's Daario, this dangerous sellsword and the question of whether Dany really wants him or not, there's hte plague, there's Drogon's return to Meereen...

All of these things were balls I had thrown up into the air, and they're all linked and chronologically entwined. The return of Drogon to the city was something I explored as happening at different times. For example, I wrote three different versions of Quentyn's arrival at Meereen: one where he arrived long before Dany's marriage, one where he arrived much later, and one where he arrived just the day before the marriage (which is how it ended up being in the novel). And I had to write all three versions to be able to compare and see how these different arrival points affected the stories of the other characters. Including the story of a character who actually hasn't arrived yet.

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Asshai.com_Interview_in_Barcelona/

With that out the way, I see no reason for the next book to take forever. There are still some issues involving Dany

spoiler (click to show/hide)

mainly how she will return to Mereen, whether the battle will still be going on, meanwhile the naval battle with Victarion, Marwyn still hasn't arrived, how Tyrion will meet Dany, etc

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but with the major obstacles out the way, it will be easier to handle now that a battle will pretty much settle the various issues

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #124 on:** January 09, 2013, 11:50:02 PM »

Martin released a new TWOW chapter: Arianne I; he released her second chapter in early 2012. It's exposition heavy which is to be expected, as her first chapter. But does answer an interesting plot point from AFFC while raising some other stuff as well
http://georgerrmartin.com/if-sample.html

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Overall a good chapter imo, and something I've been waiting for: a more broad look at the Dorish lords and their reaction to Aegon. It sounds like Doran is running out of time in terms of waiting for Dany, so his reaction to Quentyn's death will be very interesting. Also I'm curious how we'll get his reaction to the news, with Arianne and Areo gone; I have a feeling Areo won't make it back to Sunspear. I'd hate for Doran to hear the news in an epilogue chapter...

Westeros forums have determined Aurane Waters is now a pirate king in the Stepstones, but my reading of the chapter gave the impression that he was on his way to Dany; aren't the Stepstones near Essos?

Most fascinating thing about the chapter: Arianne expressing concern (and jealousy) about Dany, and the discussion of whether Dany has inherited the Mad King's madness. I get the impression Arianne will do something very rash once she hears about Quentyn, regardless of what Doran wants. Worse yet, if Doran were to die before hearing the news...Arianne could ally "Aegon" against Dany. The chapter also highlights the first blatant anti-dragon strategy I've seen in the series, which just so happened to be told to Arianne...

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Diunx · « **Reply #125 on:** January 10, 2013, 12:08:29 AM »

oh sheeeit reading it now!!!

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #126 on:** January 10, 2013, 01:04:15 AM »

read his blog for in depth NFL musings and bitter Jets tears
http://grrm.livejournal.com/

he recently mentioned his wife went on an overseas trip to meet some fans...and he stayed home to write. That's a first lol; usually he's traveling everywhere nonstop. Good to hear he's writing right now, not just TWOW but the highly anticipated Worlds Of Ice and Fire, which will be a historical telling of the world/lore history from the perspective of maesters. Can't wait.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #127 on:** February 24, 2013, 10:00:38 PM »

Martin read a couple new chapters a few days ago. Both Barriston Selmy, the ones that were removed from ADWD by his editor, and include the beginning of the

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Battle of Mereen

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Only descriptions are available since no one could record it.
http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/81338-twow-spoilers-barristan/#entry4122024

haven't read it yet but apparently it's fuck awesome

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #128 on:** February 25, 2013, 12:57:17 AM »

ok read the description. sheeeiiit that's some Blackwater worthy stuff, and it sounds like it's far from over

spoiler (click to show/hide)

-I forgot how out of the loop Barriston is with Westeros life. Seems like he would have heard about Joffery by now
-He seems quite trusting of the Greyjoys. But then again I guess it makes sense that enemy of my enemy=my friend, especially when you're in the heat of battle
-Martin said Tyrion is "miserable" while all this is going on. We know he's a part of the battle, trying to help Dany. Perhaps he gets captured by Victarion lol?

Victarian was about the blow the horn in his last chapter, right in the Mereen dock. I have a feeling that would cause quite a shit storm. Dragons killing everyone in sight, maybe even Barriston fffuuu. And if he dies Dany is really fucked: she'll have no legitimate supporters to introduce her to Westeros. If she arrives with a bunch of Unsullied, Greyjoys, Tyrion, AND dragons she'll be seen as a monster. I think Barriston's clout alone could smooth things over. She wouldn't be welcomed with open arms but it would certainly be better with one of the greatest knights of all time at her side.

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Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #129 on:** May 19, 2013, 06:20:32 PM »

Figured I'd bump due to some info I came across concerning tonight's episode. I don't want to clog up the show thread with this though, because I also want to spur some discussion on this specific point.

series spoilers:

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Allegedly tonight it will be revealed that Coldhands is Waymar Royce, the Night's Watch member who was killed by the Others in the Game of Thrones prologue/first episode; also, again allegedly, Sam will not kill the wight tonight, Coldhands will do it. I find both of those spoilers to be disappointing if true, however I'm more interested in asking folks who they think Coldhands is (in the books).

I initially believed it was Royce, but by the end of ASOS I got the impression Coldhands was rather old, not someone who was turned into a wight 1-2 years ago. Then in ADWD the child of the forest tells Bran that Coldhands has been dead for a long time. Considering she is hundreds of years old, I doubt a couple years is a "long time" to her. This would also rule out Benjen Stark IMO; if he's dead (I doubt it), he hasn't been that way for a long time.

I think he's the Night's King. Coldhands meets Bran in the Nightfort, which is was the castle of the Night's King. Also interestingly, Jon gives the Nightfort to Stannis...which could foreshadow that Stannis will suffer a similar fate (with Melisandre as his queen, perhaps).

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Diunx · « **Reply #130 on:** May 19, 2013, 07:11:02 PM »

damn you PD bumping this for a fucking 4chan rumor!!!! the plot synopsis mentions an old man so this is 99% fake.

Himu · « **Reply #131 on:** May 19, 2013, 07:42:18 PM »

What the fuck

fistfulofmetal · « **Reply #132 on:** May 19, 2013, 10:11:28 PM »

so much for that LOL

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #133 on:** May 19, 2013, 10:12:27 PM »

Thank god

Human Snorenado · « **Reply #134 on:** May 19, 2013, 10:24:32 PM »

Yeah, that's what you get for believing a fucking 4chan rumor you tard. After your long history with making up fake shit on the internets you fall for THAT? smh

Any word on if Tubby is making progress on the next book, or should I just give up.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #135 on:** May 19, 2013, 10:36:35 PM »

No recent updates but I wouldn't be surprised if it's nearly half way done. He had about 1/4 complete last year, consisting of the stuff removed from ADWD (including the amazing Barriston stuff). 2014 is possible but I'd bet on 2015.

With the Knot solved I don't think he'll take forever to finish this. Plus HBO is on his ass. Speculation: I kind of believe they've given him an incentive to finish TWOW soon. Awhile ago he signed a deal with HBO to create potential shows for them, and there was a rumor he might be involved in an I, Caligula project. I wonder if they have a deal that ensures he gets at least one pilot episode filmed if he finishes TWOW in a sensible time period.

Diunx · « **Reply #136 on:** May 19, 2013, 11:00:38 PM »

I wish I had your optimism PD.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #137 on:** August 31, 2013, 12:15:18 PM »

Martin read a new chapter at LoneStarCon last night

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Tyrion II. You can find the Tyrion I summary here, as well as the Victarian chapter that occurs before
http://nicklarter.livejournal.com/7121.html

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chapter summary (TWOW SPOILERS)

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote

Tyrion is with the Second Sons and Jorah, readying for battle. Brown Ben has gone to see the girl general. However, the Second Sons are still on the side of the Yunkai. There are great laments that they are fighting for the wrong side. There is fighting in Slavers’ Bay and under the Wall. The fight will be upon their position soon.

Tyrion watches the sun rise over the battlefield. One of the dragons (he can’t tell which) eats soldiers being flung into the air by one of six things called the Wicked Sisters (apparently some kind of embattlement). “Why do the gods keep putting him into battle?” thinks Tyrion, since he’s not made for it. His thoughts turn first to Shae, then to his first battle at the Green Fork. He remembers the Green Fork better than Blackwater. And the Second Sons saddling up remind him of Bron.

He is not yet in armor, so he returns to his tent. Penny is there, dressed in real armor for her defense. As she helps Tyrion suit up, they talk. When he mentions Cersei, Penny says, “You would sell your sister for a cup of horse piss.” Tyrion has to laugh: “Is my taste for horse piss so famous or have you met my sister?” He then explains his thoughts on strategy for the upcoming battle – a great plan to be heard and followed by no one. And as he remembers his father remaining above the fighting at the Green Fork, Penny kisses him.

Tyrion is enraged. He rants at her about the slaughter of the battlefield and the reality about to invade her innocent world. Penny apologizes, saying she’s frightened. But this echo of Shae makes matters worse. He leaves to see the battle. It is Viserion chowing down on flying soldiers. Rheagal is in sight, however. The camp is in a panic.

A man in golden armor rides up from the Supreme Commander Gorzak (ph). No one in the camp knows who Gorzak is. This man is his emissary and commands them to move to the bay and attack the savages from the squid ships. Tyrion, as a Lannister, is well aware of the Ironborn depredations and is not inclined to follow the command. The Second Sons agree: they are cavalry and can’t walk on water. They decide to wait for Brown Ben to return. The emissary, assuring them of the wrath of Gorzak, departs. Tyrion and Jorah agree – they are fighting for the wrong side.

Viserion withdraws from the skies. Rhaegal still flies, however.

Brown Ben returns. Melessa (ph) wants them to defend a Wicked Sister. Tyrion crudely points out that the girl has nicer breasts. And at that point, a Yunkai nobleman rides up. Tyrion approves of the depraved scene depicted on his armor, but his news is less welcome. The nobleman swears vengeance on the Prince of Tatters and Tyrion mocks him. Brown Ben defends Tyrion from the nobleman until Jorah runs the Yunkai nobleman through.

And Brown Ben proclaims that they have been Queen’s Men all along! Joining the Yunkai was merely a clever ploy. Tyrion isn’t fooled by this, but is happy with the development.

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http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1lgly5/spoilers_all_summary_of_sample_chapter_read_at/

sheeeit,

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Viserion withdrawing from the battle...does that mean Victarion has blown the horn?

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El Babua · « **Reply #138 on:** August 31, 2013, 12:41:27 PM »

spoiler (click to show/hide)

If that's the case, I would have expected everyone in the battle to feel the horn's presence like back at the Kingsmoot.

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Either way, the opening chapters for TWOW seem to be more momentous than the last two books. Even if they were meant to be ADWD's climax.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #139 on:** August 31, 2013, 01:26:02 PM »

You're probably right. One thing about these turns of events...

ADWD/TWOW spoilers/speculation

spoiler (click to show/hide)

It seems pretty obvious that the Yunkish are going to get routed; they lack discipline, and while they currently have superior numbers they're getting flanked by the Ironborn. Meanwhile the Volantis fleet (300-500 ships) is on its way, much of which are slaves. I can't help but think they'll rebel the minute Dany shows up, but before then they may inflict heavy losses on Dany's forces; will we get a naval battle? I hope so.

My point is: right now it seems like Dany is just going to win, but given this is ASOIAF I don't think it will be as easy as it looks on paper. The biggest wildcard being the dragons: if they started indiscriminately burning shit, both sides will lose numbers. I think that the horn is going to backfire somehow and lead to a major fuck up. What if they immediately fly to the Ironborn fleet and burn it? Suddenly that makes the Volantis a much bigger threat.

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Diunx · « **Reply #140 on:** August 31, 2013, 07:39:54 PM »

lol I knew that was gonna happen.

Human Snorenado · « **Reply #141 on:** December 13, 2013, 06:11:07 PM »

Book never coming out, confirmed

http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/books/game-of-thrones-author-george-rr-martin-under-siege-from-fans-20131031-2wjs0.html

Quote

Speaking about the sixth book in his epic saga, Martin admits, “Sometimes I just wish [the fans] would stop pressuring me about it. It will be done when it’s done. [...] I’m a slow writer, I’ve always been a slow writer, and these are gigantic books.”

At the same time, he also acknowledges that, “as [Game of Thrones] comes closer and closer, I need to go faster and faster.”

Diunx · « **Reply #142 on:** December 13, 2013, 06:13:33 PM »

Lazy fat cunt, wish he would write a t teh speed he eats.

CatsCatsCats · « **Reply #143 on:** December 13, 2013, 06:19:29 PM »

Boo hoo, all these people want to pay me money to read what I wrote

Himu · « **Reply #144 on:** December 13, 2013, 06:34:23 PM »

Ughhhhhhhhhh

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #145 on:** December 13, 2013, 06:38:53 PM »

Actually Martin's at least 50% done with TWOW, and has no public appearances from December 2013 to late May 2014. He told Roy Dotrice the book is almost ready.

believe brehs. Fall or winter 2014 is possible, but I think spring 2015 is more likely.

Diunx · « **Reply #146 on:** December 13, 2013, 06:40:34 PM »

Keep the dream alive PD

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #147 on:** December 13, 2013, 06:43:25 PM »

BTW did you guys read the novella Martin released, The Princess and The Queen? It's pretty damn good. Reads like a historical text, but it documents the Dance Of Dragons war.

Thousands of people getting burned, dragon on dragon fighting, dudes hijacking other people's dragons thousands of miles in the air...

Diunx · « **Reply #148 on:** December 13, 2013, 07:50:01 PM »

download it to read it at work but haven;t had the chance.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #149 on:** December 22, 2013, 12:19:03 AM »

lol, Momoa spoils/confirms Robert Strong's identity
(avoid if you haven't read AFFC/ADWD)

Quote from: Diunx on December 13, 2013, 07:50:01 PM

download it to read it at work but haven;t had the chance.

Read it yet breh?

Daemon Targaryen

Also has a Red Wedding type event (Blood & Cheese) that really surprised me. It's a pretty brutal short story. One of the most noteworthy things is just how many prominent houses dominate the stage in it, whereas they're either extinct or minor in the ASOIAF books. The Hightowers are basically like the Lannisters of that era; they're still around obviously, but don't seem to be prominent outside of Oldstown. House Velaryon also plays a major role, having the largest naval fleet in Westeros, even bigger than those of the Iron Isles. Given how many major houses are near the brink of extinction in ASOIAF, I get the impression many houses are going to fall or rise soon.

It's written as a historical retelling, but isn't as dry as some claim. Some parts are rather poetic, and I enjoy the unreliable narrator perspective of the biased maester who writes it.

some stuff, with implications for the ASOIAF books:

-While never outright confirmed, it seems like only people with Targaryen blood (even a slight amount) can mount a dragon. However it also describes ways in which a person could slowly gain control of a dragon, and presumably they work regardless of blood.
-Multiple lesser houses and smallfolk on Dragonstone have Targaryen blood due to the right of the first night, ie lords got to bang maiden brides. While the tradition was never popular in Westeros, it was considered a great honor on Dragonstone because everyone believed the Targaryens were godlike. And even after the practice was abolished, Targaryens continued to bang anyone and everyone to no one's tears.
-Dragon riders form a warg-like bond with their dragons. One dragon rider is bound to one dragon, until one or the other dies.
-It's reconfirmed that Targaryens aren't immune to fire, considering multiple ones get roasted. However they do seem to have a higher tolerance for heat/flame than other people.

El Babua · « **Reply #150 on:** December 22, 2013, 01:39:58 AM »

I think House Hightower still has a major role to play in the books considering all the stuff set up for Sam at Oldtown.

As for the Novella, I never received my delivery. First time that happened in the 5 years I've been using Amazon. Might download the ebook version one of these days.

Also, Martin is gonna be screening episodes of Game of Thrones in his movie theater personally before season 4 airs.

Diunx · « **Reply #151 on:** December 22, 2013, 10:14:23 AM »

Quote from: Phoenix Dark on December 22, 2013, 12:19:03 AM

lol, Momoa spoils/confirms Robert Strong's identity
(avoid if you haven't read AFFC/ADWD)

Quote from: Diunx on December 13, 2013, 07:50:01 PM
download it to read it at work but haven;t had the chance.

Read it yet breh?

Daemon Targaryen

Also has a Red Wedding type event (Blood & Cheese) that really surprised me. It's a pretty brutal short story. One of the most noteworthy things is just how many prominent houses dominate the stage in it, whereas they're either extinct or minor in the ASOIAF books. The Hightowers are basically like the Lannisters of that era; they're still around obviously, but don't seem to be prominent outside of Oldstown. House Velaryon also plays a major role, having the largest naval fleet in Westeros, even bigger than those of the Iron Isles. Given how many major houses are near the brink of extinction in ASOIAF, I get the impression many houses are going to fall or rise soon.

It's written as a historical retelling, but isn't as dry as some claim. Some parts are rather poetic, and I enjoy the unreliable narrator perspective of the biased maester who writes it.

some stuff, with implications for the ASOIAF books:

-While never outright confirmed, it seems like only people with Targaryen blood (even a slight amount) can mount a dragon. However it also describes ways in which a person could slowly gain control of a dragon, and presumably they work regardless of blood.
-Multiple lesser houses and smallfolk on Dragonstone have Targaryen blood due to the right of the first night, ie lords got to bang maiden brides. While the tradition was never popular in Westeros, it was considered a great honor on Dragonstone because everyone believed the Targaryens were godlike. And even after the practice was abolished, Targaryens continued to bang anyone and everyone to no one's tears.
-Dragon riders form a warg-like bond with their dragons. One dragon rider is bound to one dragon, until one or the other dies.
-It's reconfirmed that Targaryens aren't immune to fire, considering multiple ones get roasted. However they do seem to have a higher tolerance for heat/flame than other people.

not gonna read what you wrote since I'm only on page 10 of my pdf, I am at the part when The Targaryen prince and the Strong kid clash at Stormsend, gonna finish it today since work was merciless last week and didn't have the chance to read any there.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #152 on:** March 26, 2014, 07:08:46 PM »

Figured I'd move book discussions here again. so the TV thread isn't clogged.

Another sample chapter has been released.

"Mercy"

holy fucking shit.

CatsCatsCats · « **Reply #153 on:** March 26, 2014, 07:27:45 PM »

I refuse to read the sample chapters until I can binge on the whole book letting all other responsibility slide

El Babua · « **Reply #154 on:** March 26, 2014, 11:13:46 PM »

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Another tremendous chapter. The fact that I read two top tier Tyrion and Arya chapters within the last week is NOT making the wait any easier.

Also, I knew it was gonna happen eventually, but it's pretty crazy how quickly Arya is now directly involved in sexual situations and how comfortably she's seemingly able to handle them.

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Himu · « **Reply #155 on:** March 26, 2014, 11:14:21 PM »

Lotta preview chapters recently.

Book coming out this or next year?

El Babua · « **Reply #156 on:** March 26, 2014, 11:19:56 PM »

He's just gonna release a new chapter every few months Togashi Style.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #157 on:** March 26, 2014, 11:21:57 PM »

Top 10-15 chapter brehs. Wow.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Every now and then Martin gets an opportunity to write something that might normally feel out of place in the series. His prose tends to have some flourishes of course, but you can tell when he really gets to have fun. The septon monologue in AFFC comes to mind first, and after reading this chapter we can add those mummer stage scenes to the list. It's thick with Richard III references. The entire chapter was amazing of course, but I found myself almost wishing the POV perspective could stay in the theater just to hear more.

The first thing I thought of when I read ADWD's prologue back in 2011 was that Harys Swift would run into Arya; someone on Reddit called it even more accurately. He has survived so many books despite being a dumbass lmao but it seems like his luck is running out.

So I guess Arya was going to play Sansa in the play?

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Diunx · « **Reply #158 on:** March 30, 2014, 09:05:42 PM »

Dat chapter

Quote from: Formerly Known As Himuro on March 26, 2014, 11:14:21 PM

Lotta preview chapters recently.

Book coming out this or next year?

They are all leftovers moved from ADWD.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #159 on:** March 30, 2014, 09:53:25 PM »

Martin said that chapter was written over a decade ago, and was initially going to be the character's first chapter in AFFC, back when the 5 year gap was planned. Imagine how badass that would have been...fuck. He re-wrote it after scrapping the 5 year gap, and planned on putting it in ADWD until deciding it made more sense as a first chapter in a new book, instead of the last chapter in ADWD. Seems like a good decision but boy, if that was in ADWD I think many people wouldn't complain as much. Hell, nearly every TWOW chapter released thus far would have made ADWD better.

Seems like there's a big spoiler in the chapter, too:

TWOW

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Cersei apparently wins her trial and still has power in King's Landing. In the ADWD prologue it mentions Cersei's trial is going to happen in five days; I'd imagine the city discovered Kevan's body the day after his death, and Harys Swyft probably left for Braavos after the trial. Interesting. I can't see how she could be named reagent, since Mace Tyrell is the Hand. But I guess she still has enough power to tell the Lannister side of the government what to do.

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Also another Martin comment about TWOW, from his blog again:

Quote

Re: Writing Process
I do rewrite quite a bit... well, after 1982, anyway... but I must admit, I did a lot more on FEAST and DANCE than anything before them. And not just polishes, but major restructings, like getting rid of the five-year gap, and my endless attempts to make that one
spoiler (click to show/hide)
Tyrion
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chapter work... (it never did). Those two books were bears.

So far, I have not done anywhere near as much rewriting on WINDS... but of course, it is not done yet.

With the 5 year gap and Meerenese Knot behind him, it sounds like he's making good progress. He also says he has reached the limit of TWOW chapters he can release. Just based off the samples thus far you can tell shit is about to hit the fan, and he'd rather not spoil it early.

chronovore · « **Reply #160 on:** March 31, 2014, 06:22:24 AM »

Quote from: Phoenix Dark on December 22, 2013, 12:19:03 AM

(snip)
-It's reconfirmed that Targaryens aren't immune to fire, considering multiple ones get roasted. However they do seem to have a higher tolerance for heat/flame than other people.

A higher tolerance for heat which doesn't, apparently, stretch to molten gold being poured on one's head.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #161 on:** March 31, 2014, 09:50:13 AM »

I knew who it was after the first paragraph but it was still quite a surprising chapter. And of course the end is something I've wanted to see for awhile.

Diunx · « **Reply #162 on:** March 31, 2014, 10:14:48 AM »

Yeah you can tell it's Arya right away which makes the shit she said about her rape more disturbing, I though my lone wolf was gonna have to let some sealord rape her to get close to him and clapped him

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #163 on:** March 31, 2014, 12:04:46 PM »

Quote from: Diunx on March 31, 2014, 10:14:48 AM

Yeah you can tell it's Arya right away which makes the shit she said about her rape more disturbing, I though my lone wolf was gonna have to let some sealord rape her to get close to him and clapped him

It's worth noting

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Arya isn't thinking about her rape, Mercy is. She has no conscious Arya thoughts until she sees Raff, and even then she doesn't know how she knows him; at that point she can barely speak the Common Tongue, despite obviously knowing the language as Arya. I've noticed some people complaining about the sexual nature of the chapter in respect to Arya being a kid...but she's literally wearing another person's face in the chapter. Those aren't Arya's thoughts, as AFFC explained when you take someone's identity you become them..

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CatsCatsCats · « **Reply #164 on:** March 31, 2014, 03:39:51 PM »

I caved and read the Mercy chapter. Amazing. I kinda think you're being too literal with that PD.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

to me it just seems like compartmentalizing, "Mercy" doesn't know the common tongue, but she's eavesdropping anyway, and uses it when she doesn't see any other option. It's not like she's entirely detached from being Arya

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Madrun Badrun · « **Reply #165 on:** April 01, 2014, 01:00:21 PM »

We can finally rest easy PD.

http://www.theglobaledition.com/george-r-r-martin-signs-contract-that-prevents-him-from-dying-before-finishing-his-book-series/

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #166 on:** April 01, 2014, 01:19:42 PM »

Quote from: Spencer on March 31, 2014, 03:39:51 PM

I caved and read the Mercy chapter. Amazing. I kinda think you're being too literal with that PD.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
to me it just seems like compartmentalizing, "Mercy" doesn't know the common tongue, but she's eavesdropping anyway, and uses it when she doesn't see any other option. It's not like she's entirely detached from being Arya
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At the same time

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She participates in a play in which her sister is raped and murdered yet has no reaction. She only remembers her true self in dreams until Raff reminds her. Note family is not what brought the real Arya out: seeing someone on her death list did. She's in a very dark place.

With respect to most of her thoughts in the chapter she is clearly someone else - until she sees Raff.

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Dickie Dee · « **Reply #167 on:** April 01, 2014, 01:36:05 PM »

I'd have to read it again (at work) but I read it as her constantly reminding herself to stay in character, so that she would not respond to things that her "character" would not. She's still conscious of who she really is.

CatsCatsCats · « **Reply #168 on:** April 01, 2014, 01:44:27 PM »

Yeah, maybe reread it, PD. It's pretty clear she's aware.

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pretty sure her dreams are Nymeria's wandering about so I don't know what you're on about. Her not reacting is because she's a fucking faceless, trained not to.

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Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #169 on:** April 01, 2014, 01:54:29 PM »

Quote from: Spencer on April 01, 2014, 01:44:27 PM

Yeah, maybe reread it, PD. It's pretty clear she's aware.

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pretty sure her dreams are Nymeria's wandering about so I don't know what you're on about. Her not reacting is because she's a fucking faceless one trained not to.
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But that's my point!

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She only remembers herself through dreams, which she barely remembers. I'm not saying Arya has totally forgot herself, I'm saying she's someone else right now. When she sheds Mercy's identity she'll be Arya again. But I'd argue the more she stays with the FM, the less of herself she'll remember in the long term.

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CatsCatsCats · « **Reply #170 on:** April 01, 2014, 01:57:51 PM »

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she probably just doesn't understand her dreams, likely has never heard of a warg, let alone suspect she might be somehow still bonded to the pet she had to turn away. There's no evidence of her forgetting her past.

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CatsCatsCats · « **Reply #171 on:** April 01, 2014, 02:02:50 PM »

I guess that I do see the potential for

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her being a warg somehow interrupting a process of her truly becoming faceless and losing her past entirely in the story, I just don't see that being laid out in that chapter.

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Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #172 on:** April 01, 2014, 02:07:34 PM »

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I'm talking long term. She clearly remembers Needle and her kill list, but my point is that Arya's arc has been about isolation since the first book. In many ways she reminds me of Michael from The Wire. She hasn't lost her identity yet, but I believe it will happen unless she leaves the FM soon. Maybe she'll leave on Swyft's ship, or maybe she'll sneak onto Justin Massey's ship back north, with Stannis' sellswords.

When she takes Mercy's face off she'll return to being Arya, yes. But the process has to negatively impact her identity, I don't see how you can disagree with that.

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CatsCatsCats · « **Reply #173 on:** April 01, 2014, 02:11:57 PM »

I guess because I just don't see evidence that it has. My girl's strong.

CatsCatsCats · « **Reply #174 on:** April 01, 2014, 02:18:30 PM »

I mean,

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I would assume with the dreams, she's a natural warg, and with that ability I would assign a soundness of mind that would allow her to don faces and not let it affect who she is. She has the innate ability to comprehend life as a wolf and as a person, why then would she not be able to maintain a sense of self through being different people?

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Himu · « **Reply #175 on:** April 01, 2014, 02:21:26 PM »

I seem to be the only one not reading preview chapters?

CatsCatsCats · « **Reply #176 on:** April 01, 2014, 02:22:46 PM »

I've only read the most recent one, might have to go back and find the others.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #177 on:** April 01, 2014, 02:40:08 PM »

ADWD

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She's quite a powerful warg. In ADWD she wargs cats while still being conscious in her own body somehow. She uses a cat to figure out when the Kindly Man is about to attack her, and then is a good enough liar to avoid him figuring out how she dodged his blows. And she uses a cat to hear conversations of a mark she targets.

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CatsCatsCats · « **Reply #178 on:** April 01, 2014, 02:44:53 PM »

You're right, I forgot about that. That just goes to reinforce my point tho,

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to be that powerful of a warg, she must have one hell of a powerful mind.

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You make interesting points though, the bore should chapter by chapter book club this shit when it comes out finally

Damian79 · « **Reply #179 on:** April 02, 2014, 02:31:43 AM »

So is Tyrion an antihero or not? My friend refuses to accept that he is an anti hero, citing batman as the prototype anti hero. Sigh.

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Author Topic: A Song of Ice and Fire discussion (Read 51625 times)