Author Topic: Twin terror attacks in Norway (Read 4690 times)

duckman2000 · « **on:** July 22, 2011, 04:18:21 PM »

Fucking nasty.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43854355/ns/world_news-europe/

Quote

At least seven people were killed and others injured in the blast in the center of Oslo, NBC News reported. Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg was not in his building at the time of the explosion, which happened around 3:30 p.m. (9:30 a.m. EDT), Norwegian newspaper Aftenposten reported.

Separately, a man in a police uniform opened fire at a Labor Party youth camp on an island near Oslo, Norwegian media said. Investigators told local media they suspect a link between the shootings and the blast. Eyewitnesses told Norwegian broadcaster NRK perhaps 20 or more people had been killed on the island of Utoya. Police confirmed at least nine deaths on the island. Police said they have arrested one person after the shooting.

People are, for good reason, going a bit nuts about it here. We had that failed bombing a while ago, and now this.

The gunman on the island was allegedly tall, blond and nordic looking. Smells like another snap case, but who knows.

duckman2000 · « **Reply #1 on:** July 22, 2011, 04:20:16 PM »

Quote from: Borys on July 22, 2011, 04:19:09 PM

Why Norway and Oslo of all places? Mind boggles.

If we assume that it's about the usual suspects, then Norway is just another NATO nation. But it's all a bit weird.

Human Snorenado · « **Reply #2 on:** July 22, 2011, 04:21:53 PM »

Terrorist attacks: how Americans learn geography.

Mr. Gundam · « **Reply #3 on:** July 22, 2011, 04:25:09 PM »

Any significance in attacking a Labor Party youth camp?

Smooth Groove · « **Reply #4 on:** July 22, 2011, 04:40:24 PM »

Even Norway has muslims?

brob · « **Reply #5 on:** July 22, 2011, 04:48:10 PM »

I live in Oslo, but am on vacation on the west coast right now. called and facebooked all of my friends to make sure no one was hurt. One of my closest friends (who is a mailman in central Oslo) was apparently waiting for the tram not far from the explosion and got rained on by shattered windows. only got some minor cuts, but still crazy as shit. My apartment wasn't damaged, but I've been told a friend of a friend had all their windows broken.

I was offered a summer job at VG as an graphic designer, but didn't take it because the pay was too low (need to make rent). all kinds of fucked up since VG is right next door to the building that was targeted. Luckily I haven't heard of anyone being hurt there.

Quote from: Mr. Gundam on July 22, 2011, 04:25:09 PM

Any significance in attacking a Labor Party youth camp?

long standing governing party (although often carried forth by collation government). I suspect it's an attack on what the perpetrators view as "the government" and the source for whatever their issues were with it. Also, this is an election year so this has major implications for the fall.

T-Short · « **Reply #6 on:** July 22, 2011, 04:48:16 PM »

Quote from: Mr. Gundam on July 22, 2011, 04:25:09 PM

Any significance in attacking a Labor Party youth camp?

The labor party, the current ruling party, are super Obama-friendly and has been an ally in both wars. The norwegian minister of foreign affairs was there at the time and participated in a debate about the palestine issue, and the norwegian prime minister was scheduled to give a speech there tomorrow.

duckman2000 · « **Reply #7 on:** July 22, 2011, 07:11:07 PM »

Doesn't seem like there are any ties to the middle east right now, does it? Unless it's some soldier that has gone off the deep end.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #8 on:** July 22, 2011, 10:29:40 PM »

Quote

(Reuters) - A gunman shot dead at least 80 youths at a summer camp of the ruling Labour Party on Friday, police said.

"The updated knowledge we are sitting on now is at least 80," police chief Oystein Maeland told a news conference. "We can't guarantee that won't increase somewhat," he said, adding some were badly injured.

Previously, police had said that at least 10 had been killed in the shooting at the Utoeya island northwest of Oslo, along with seven killed by a bomb blast in central Oslo.

Maeland said the attack had reached "catastrophic dimensions."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/23/us-norway-blast-toll-idUSTRE76M0AU20110723

jesus fuck

Cormacaroni · « **Reply #9 on:** July 22, 2011, 10:47:52 PM »

Oh my lord.

TEEEPO · « **Reply #10 on:** July 22, 2011, 10:50:28 PM »

fucking masons

Great Rumbler · « **Reply #11 on:** July 22, 2011, 10:59:14 PM »

Quote from: Billy Rygar on July 22, 2011, 10:46:56 PM

80 fucking people at a youth camp. :'(

Jesus christ. Seems the dude has ties to neo-nazi shit.

Man, that's horrible.

Quote

Eyewitnesses described how a tall, blonde man dressed as a policeman opened fire indiscriminately. People said that after the gunman started shooting, campers jumped into the water to try to escape the hail of bullets.

Police say they discovered many more victims after searching the area around the island.

"It goes without saying that this gives dimensions to this incident that are exceptional," police director Oystein Maeland is quoted as saying by the Associated Press news agency.

Police say many others are injured, and warned the number of dead may rise further as rescue teams continued to scour the waters around the island. Some of the teenagers were shot at as they tried to swim to safety.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14259356

$:-\$

Human Snorenado · « **Reply #12 on:** July 22, 2011, 11:00:17 PM »

Fucking Christ, that's terrible.

Human Snorenado · « **Reply #13 on:** July 22, 2011, 11:35:43 PM »

There's probably no real reason, the guy is likely just a lunatic. Happens more frequently in America.

Great Rumbler · « **Reply #14 on:** July 22, 2011, 11:53:09 PM »

It's doesn't really sound like something with world-wide implications or motives [ala 9/11], more like the Oklahoma City bombing back in 1995. A couple of nuts mad about the government decided to park a truck filled with tons of ammonium nitrate in front of government building and blow it up. And there are nuts in every country.

Dickie Dee · « **Reply #15 on:** July 22, 2011, 11:53:31 PM »

Ugggghh

Great Rumbler · « **Reply #16 on:** July 23, 2011, 01:34:08 AM »

Quote from: Borys on July 23, 2011, 01:25:32 AM

The maniac shooter and the bombing are unrelated, right?

Seems that they are connected:

Quote

"He travelled on the ferry boat from the mainland over to that little inland island posing as a police officer, saying he was there to do research in connection with the bomb blasts," NRK journalist Ole Torp told the BBC.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14259356

The second attack was just two hours later.

T-Short · « **Reply #17 on:** July 23, 2011, 01:34:32 AM »

Borys, right now the theory is that the same guy did both things. An unexploded bomb has been found at the camp as well.

Mandark · « **Reply #18 on:** July 23, 2011, 01:57:26 AM »

Gonna stay away from reading about this too much, at least online news sites. Literally get a sick feeling from thinking about it, and the inevitable horrible comment threads will just compound it. Jesus.

Himu · « **Reply #19 on:** July 23, 2011, 02:19:09 AM »

what the fuck

Boogie · « **Reply #20 on:** July 23, 2011, 03:03:56 AM »

Quote from: Great Rumbler on July 22, 2011, 11:53:09 PM

It's not really something with world-wide implications or motives [ala 9/11], it's more like the Oklahoma City bombing back in 1995. A couple of nuts mad about the government decided to park a truck filled with tons of ammonium nitrate in front of government building and blow it up. And there are nuts in every country.

It's actually very hard to make any assessments about the attack this soon. I feel that Mandark's approach is the best at the moment.

Whether it is an Aryan/Caucasian/White supremacist thing or an islamic terrorist incident, it is best to sit back and wait for the facts, as hard as that is.

Great Rumbler · « **Reply #21 on:** July 23, 2011, 03:15:53 AM »

Quote from: Boogie on July 23, 2011, 03:03:56 AM

Quote from: Great Rumbler on July 22, 2011, 11:53:09 PM
It's not really something with world-wide implications or motives [ala 9/11], it's more like the Oklahoma City bombing back in 1995. A couple of nuts mad about the government decided to park a truck filled with tons of ammonium nitrate in front of government building and blow it up. And there are nuts in every country.

It's actually very hard to make any assessments about the attack this soon. I feel that Mandark's approach is the best at the moment.

Whether it is an Aryan/Caucasian/White supremacist thing or an islamic terrorist incident, it is best to sit back and wait for the facts, as hard as that is.

Could have worded that differently, I guess, but that's the impression I get from what I'm reading so far.

Skidmark · « **Reply #22 on:** July 23, 2011, 05:41:40 AM »

There are eye witness reports that there might have been two men doing the shootings on the island.

Boogie · « **Reply #23 on:** July 23, 2011, 11:04:19 AM »

Death count is at over 80 so far? shit $:-\$

drew · « **Reply #24 on:** July 23, 2011, 11:11:13 AM »

death count is at 92

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/23/norway-attacks

Skidmark · « **Reply #25 on:** July 23, 2011, 11:23:19 AM »

I don't see anything wrong with that. Keep emotions out of this.

Great Rumbler · « **Reply #26 on:** July 23, 2011, 11:42:05 AM »

Quote from: Skidmark on July 23, 2011, 11:23:19 AM

I don't see anything wrong with that. Keep emotions out of this.

Even taking emotions out of it, killing 90+ people [mostly teenagers aged 14-19] across two different attacks [an urban bombing and a shooting spree] in a clearly premeditated attack against the government and those deemed to represent it deserves FAR MORE than 21 years.

Not bashing Norway or their legal system here, I'm just going by what Borys posted as a [possible?] maximum.

Diunx · « **Reply #27 on:** July 23, 2011, 11:44:52 AM »

Quote from: Borys on July 23, 2011, 11:11:59 AM

smh @ Norway's liberal law

Guns down 80 people.
Gets 21 years in jail.

That's fuck yeah meme worthy.

That's some fucked up shit.

Skidmark · « **Reply #28 on:** July 23, 2011, 12:11:27 PM »

Quote from: Great Rumbler on July 23, 2011, 11:42:05 AM

Quote from: Skidmark on July 23, 2011, 11:23:19 AM
I don't see anything wrong with that. Keep emotions out of this.

Even taking emotions out of it, killing 90+ people [mostly teenagers aged 14-19] across two different attacks [an urban bombing and a shooting spree] in a clearly premeditated attack against the government and those deemed to represent it deserves FAR MORE than 21 years.

Not bashing Norway or their legal system here, I'm just going by what Borys posted as a [possible?] maximum.

As long as there is any doubt that he is still a risk on others he will never be released out into society. Giving him 372 years is just meaningless and stupid. If he is a different person in 30 years I don't see why he should remain locked in, but that is a big if.

Reading on neogaf makes me feel that the majority of the readers want him slowly tourtured to death as if that will make things better. How people feel has nothing to do with worsening or improving this kind situations. I share their sorrow and pain but it's just not about me. It's about him and his actions.

Don Flamenco · « **Reply #29 on:** July 23, 2011, 01:27:39 PM »

Quote from: Borys on July 23, 2011, 11:11:59 AM

smh @ Norway's liberal law

Guns down 80 people.
Gets 21 years in jail.

That's fuck yeah meme worthy.

that's really what's gonna happen? They don't have any exceptions for things like, say, gunning down 80 people including kids?

Don Flamenco · « **Reply #30 on:** July 23, 2011, 01:32:44 PM »

Quote from: Creepy Old Guy on July 22, 2011, 11:35:43 PM

There's probably no real reason, the guy is likely just a lunatic. Happens more frequently in America.

that's usually the reason in the U.S., but this is said to be politically motivated. so, a politically motivated lunatic.

and of course it happens more frequently in America. Not sure if you mean it this way, but I always see this comment as some kind of justification when something bad happens in another country. America is kind of fucking enormous and the odds for this kind of thing are up exponentially over any Euro or Asian country (China, India, Russia, etc. notwithstanding, obviously.)

smh @ terrorist comments. the bomb was their style but not sending in one dude to shoot up a camp...they'd have an organized firing squad, if they were to even do that kind of thing. They'd probably just bomb the camp too.

Don Flamenco · « **Reply #31 on:** July 23, 2011, 01:45:03 PM »

Quote from: Borys on July 23, 2011, 01:37:36 PM

They are mentioning on the TV that Norway doesn't have lifetime sentence, 21 years is max and you can get out after 16 if you behave correctly.

This case should be different, I mean don't they have law there against genocide? Like war crimes? Maybe they could pull this case under some mass murder paragraph and give him I don't know 42 years at least.

I am going only by what the TV says here, maybe someone Norwegian can correct me.

i mean, it sounds about right for a regular murder for a country like that (going on a hunch), but yeah, there's gotta be some exception. Maybe the guy isn't Norwegian and that'll bring in some jurisdictional issues to give a higher, harsher court jurisdiction over him. Like, if he's from an EU country, maybe? I don't know how that works over there. In the U.S., the parties can move the case to different courts (or defend from having the case moved), depending on whether the court is more likely to rule in their favor or give a lighter penalty, etc. Sometimes they move it to a foreign country (corporations do this a lot.)

Mandark · « **Reply #32 on:** July 23, 2011, 01:51:17 PM »

From a quick Googling, 21 years is the maximum sentence that can be given after a conviction.

But there's a containment/preventive detention system for dangerous convicts. The initial sentence still has a 21 year maximum, but if they're still considered a danger their sentence can be extended by five year chunks. This can go on forever.

So they basically have the option of life with parole, just called something different. This isn't gonna stop about a gazillion comment threads and chain emails going nuts, though.

Cerveza mas fina · « **Reply #33 on:** July 23, 2011, 01:53:12 PM »

And thats the problem with religion. fucking nutters all of them

Cerveza mas fina · « **Reply #34 on:** July 23, 2011, 01:59:18 PM »

I was sure it was muslims. but christians will do. im happy its not muslims though, there is enough hate already

Mandark · « **Reply #35 on:** July 23, 2011, 02:08:09 PM »

Great Rumbler · « **Reply #36 on:** July 23, 2011, 02:14:38 PM »

Quote from: Mandark on July 23, 2011, 01:51:17 PM

From a quick Googling, 21 years is the maximum sentence that can be given after a conviction.

But there's a containment/preventive detention system for dangerous convicts. The initial sentence still has a 21 year maximum, but if they're still considered a danger their sentence can be extended by five year chunks. This can go on forever.

So they basically have the option of life with parole, just called something different. This isn't gonna stop about a gazillion comment threads and chain emails going nuts, though.

Ah, thanks for the clarification on that. I'd say it's highly likely this guy stays in prison for quite a while past the initial 21 years.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #37 on:** July 23, 2011, 02:16:25 PM »

this would not have happened if they had a death penalty *wrings hands*

Don Flamenco · « **Reply #38 on:** July 23, 2011, 02:18:49 PM »

Quote from: Mandark on July 23, 2011, 01:51:17 PM

From a quick Googling, 21 years is the maximum sentence that can be given after a conviction.

But there's a containment/preventive detention system for dangerous convicts. The initial sentence still has a 21 year maximum, but if they're still considered a danger their sentence can be extended by five year chunks. This can go on forever.

So they basically have the option of life with parole, just called something different. This isn't gonna stop about a gazillion comment threads and chain emails going nuts, though.

thanks.

and yes, this "5 year chunk" exception will take the rest of the world a few weeks to grasp, but not before Norway's legal system gets thrown under a bus.

drew · « **Reply #39 on:** July 23, 2011, 02:47:35 PM »

Quote from: Premium Lager on July 23, 2011, 01:59:18 PM

I was sure it was muslims. but christians will do. im happy its not muslims though, there is enough hate already

you weren't the only one, several news outlets including the Telegraph put out knee jerk articles blaming muslims

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/oslo-jihadist-terrorist-blame-game-begins

Quote from: Borys on July 23, 2011, 02:43:44 PM

How can one guy shoot 90 people? I don't believe he didn't have any military training.

he did.

and i quote:

Quote

He has no background in the military, apart from regular military service.

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=no&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vg.no%2Fnyheter%2Finnenriks%2Fartikkel.php%3Fartid%3D10080610

it's because nobody tried to tackle him like they did in the Fort Hood shooting and the Giffords shooting

T-Short · « **Reply #40 on:** July 23, 2011, 02:50:40 PM »

He was dressed as a policeman and summoned the kids as they came from an info briefing about the bomb blast. When the chaos erupted, kids who didn't know who was shooting also ran towards who they thought was a policeman. He also shot people in the water who were trying to swim to safety.

T-Short · « **Reply #41 on:** July 23, 2011, 02:52:20 PM »

Also: he served his military service in the norwegian army, and was a gun club member.

Boogie · « **Reply #42 on:** July 23, 2011, 04:56:56 PM »

Quote from: Hyoushi on July 23, 2011, 02:50:40 PM

He was dressed as a policeman and summoned the kids as they came from an info briefing about the bomb blast. When the chaos erupted, kids who didn't know who was shooting also ran towards who they thought was a policeman. He also shot people in the water who were trying to swim to safety.

What a sick fuck. Hope he fell down some stairs at the station after he was arrested.

T234 · « **Reply #43 on:** July 23, 2011, 05:08:04 PM »

Is that what y'all call it up there? Here they refer to it as "subdued repeatedly". I agree either way unless he gets off because of it, but the three Norwegians I met all would probably classify this guy as dangerous until the day he died.

Boogie · « **Reply #44 on:** July 23, 2011, 05:18:33 PM »

Quote from: T234 on July 23, 2011, 05:08:04 PM

Is that what y'all call it up there? Here they refer to it as "subdued repeatedly". I agree either way unless he gets off because of it, but the three Norwegians I met all would probably classify this guy as dangerous until the day he died.

I'm just talking shit. I don't even know if that sort of thing happens up here (I'm sure it does in some places), but I've never laid hands on a prisoner, and neither has anyone I've ever worked with.

brob · « **Reply #45 on:** July 23, 2011, 05:41:57 PM »

Borys,

Mandark is right - he will most likely be convicted to 21 years plus confinement. There is only one other who has been convicted to confinement, if I remember correctly. He killed kidnapped, raped and killed two girls (aged 8 and 10).

Boogie · « **Reply #46 on:** July 23, 2011, 05:53:07 PM »

Quote from: Skidmark on July 23, 2011, 12:11:27 PM

As long as there is any doubt that he is still a risk on others he will never be released out into society. Giving him 372 years is just meaningless and stupid. If he is a different person in 30 years I don't see why he should remain locked in, but that is a big if.

Naw, fuck that. Incarceration isn't just about rehabilitation and recidivism.

I think that one principle of fundamental justice is that those who commit such horrendous acts that are so far beyond the pale, that they forfeit their right to participate in society. I don't know where I sit on the death penalty anymore, but even without a death penalty, I believe that for justice to have any meaning, these sorts need to be locked up and the key thrown away.

brob · « **Reply #47 on:** July 23, 2011, 05:59:16 PM »

Absolutism is rarely a good look Boogie

Boogie · « **Reply #48 on:** July 23, 2011, 06:00:07 PM »

Quote from: Brobzoid on July 23, 2011, 05:59:16 PM

Absolutism is rarely a good look Boogie

Rarely, but not never.

Eddie Izzard has it right, at 2:30:

[youtube=560,345]35WMOJSgVb0[/youtube]

duckman2000 · « **Reply #49 on:** July 23, 2011, 06:47:54 PM »

That guard that let him through must feel like a bit of a jackass today.

Great Rumbler · « **Reply #50 on:** July 23, 2011, 06:56:41 PM »

Quote from: Boogie on July 23, 2011, 05:53:07 PM

Quote from: Skidmark on July 23, 2011, 12:11:27 PM

As long as there is any doubt that he is still a risk on others he will never be released out into society. Giving him 372 years is just meaningless and stupid. If he is a different person in 30 years I don't see why he should remain locked in, but that is a big if.

I think that one principle of fundamental justice is that those who commit such horrendous acts that are so far beyond the pale, that they forfeit their right to participate in society.

Yeah, that's pretty much how I feel about this too.

T234 · « **Reply #51 on:** July 23, 2011, 07:12:05 PM »

It seems to me, in all of my reading about the exploits of the RCMP, they run things right by the book.

Boogie · « **Reply #52 on:** July 23, 2011, 07:13:45 PM »

Quote from: T234 on July 23, 2011, 07:12:05 PM

It seems to me, in all of my reading about the exploits of the RCMP, they run things right by the book.

Oh, we have our share of fuckups, to be sure, but we try.

Mr. Gundam · « **Reply #53 on:** July 23, 2011, 08:11:19 PM »

The Royal Norwegian Consulate for Washington state is a couple blocks from my house. Walked by earlier and there were tons of bouquets and cards outside the front door. Sad sad sad.

Boogie · « **Reply #54 on:** July 24, 2011, 12:40:44 AM »

Trent Dole · « **Reply #55 on:** July 24, 2011, 12:48:12 AM »

...so this was political bullshit? And a fucking youth camp? They should just throw this guy to an angry mob or draw and quarter the dude. Utterly disgusting.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #56 on:** July 24, 2011, 12:51:57 AM »

The monster deserves no sympathy. This is a clear premeditated act of terrorism. Not some desperate "plea for help" from a deranged man. This guy knew what he was doing and carried it out with mechanical efficiency.

Great Rumbler · « **Reply #57 on:** July 24, 2011, 01:01:33 AM »

My mom is of the opinion that the police who came to the island following the shooting should have just shot him dead, save the State the time and effort and trying and holding this guy. It's hard not to feel that same way, and I'm not even entirely sure that I want to feel differently.

Great Rumbler · « **Reply #58 on:** July 24, 2011, 02:21:59 AM »

Quote from: The Business on July 24, 2011, 01:47:12 AM

A lot of blood lust in this thread.

Then that would mean the GAF thread about this is a veritable blood orgy.

Himu · « **Reply #59 on:** July 24, 2011, 02:29:43 AM »

Quote from: Hyoushi on July 23, 2011, 02:50:40 PM

He was dressed as a policeman and summoned the kids as they came from an info briefing about the bomb blast. When the chaos erupted, kids who didn't know who was shooting also ran towards who they thought was a policeman. He also shot people in the water who were trying to swim to safety.

What a bastard.

News:

Author Topic: Twin terror attacks in Norway (Read 4690 times)