Thoughts on the Trayvon Martin situation?

[Eel O'Brian]

spike lee's lawyer:

"hey. hey dumbfuck. do you know how much legal trouble you can get into for this shit?"

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-trayvon-martin-lee-settlement-20120329,0,7063902.story

[Joe Molotov]

Watched the latest including the interview with the brother : now it's just a joke. The version of events being spun now is a joke, throwing in fingerwagging and accusing people of making it a race issue? Fucking disgusting

YOU GOT A PROBLEM, HOMIE? 

[Brehvolution]

Zimmerman's past is faaaaaaaaaaar more damning.

[Boogie]

The officers aren't even wearing gloves...

Yep, that was a big thing a couple guys on a police-only forum pointed out.  No copper (with any brains) would be handling the prisoner and his effects without gloves if he had just gotten his nose broken and blood all over himself, even if he was "cleaned up" at the scene.

[The Sceneman]

this is in horrible taste, but its a good .gif so I will post

http://ifihadasonhewouldlookliketrayvon.ytmnd.com/

[Joe Molotov]

http://www.theonion.com/articles/florida-police-warn-public-against-taking-law-into,27832/

Florida Police Warn Public Against Taking Law Into Own Hands Unless It’s That Law Specifically Designed For You To Do That

SANFORD, FL—Amidst the controversy surrounding the recent shooting death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, the Sanford Police Department cautioned Florida residents Tuesday against taking the law into their own hands, except when following the state statute that explicitly authorizes people to do so. "Let me be clear: We do not want citizens resorting to deadly force when they believe they're being threatened—unless, of course, they are following the letter of the law, which says they can resort to deadly force when they believe they're being threatened," said interim Sanford police chief Darren Scott, referring to the state's "Stand Your Ground" rule. "Law enforcement should be left to the police. However, it can also be left to common citizens, since pursuing vigilante justice is perfectly within their legal rights. Have I made myself clear?" After being bombarded with questions about the confusing nature of the law, a flustered Scott said, "Just don't be racist and kill people, okay?

[benjipwns]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/zimmermans-lawyers-withdraw-from-fla-shooting-case-say-they-have-lost-contact-with-him/2012/04/10/gIQAbE0p8S_story.html

Attorneys for a Florida neighborhood watch volunteer who fatally shot an unarmed black teen have withdrawn as his counsel, saying they haven’t heard from him since Sunday.

Attorney Craig Sonner said Tuesday in a news conference that against their advice, George Zimmerman contacted the special prosecutor who will decide if he should face charges.

George Zimmerman’s former legal team on Tuesday said Zimmerman spoke off the record with Fox News’ Sean Hannity. The lawyers said Zimmerman told Hannity things that he would not tell them.

George Zimmerman’s former lawyers said during a press conference Tuesday that they never met face to face with their client. The communication was done through phone calls and meetings with family members, they said.

George Zimmerman’s former legal defense team suggested that their former client may not be in Florida anymore. “Stop looking in Florida,” the lawyers said.

[Beezy]

Just watched that on CNN. No words.

[AdmiralViscen]

What did he say on hannity?

[benjipwns]

It was something he said privately to Hannity, not on the air. But:

Asked about Hannity's interactions with Zimmerman, a Fox News Channel spokeswoman said the issue "will be addressed on Hannity's show tonight."

[Fifstar]

According to a Gallup survey that was cited in a german newspaper, a majority of blacks believe that Zimmerman is guilty, but only 11% of whites. I'm surprised at the low number for whites, given how the situation developed. Don't know how the survey was exactly worded though.

[brawndolicious]

According to a Gallup survey that was cited in a german newspaper, a majority of blacks believe that Zimmerman is guilty, but only 11% of whites. I'm surprised at the low number for whites, given how the situation developed. Don't know how the survey was exactly worded though.

The question was probably "Do you think he was guilty of murder in the first or second degree?"

Most people would probably say this is not murder, that it seems to be voluntary manslaughter. Still, Zimmerman is guilty of causing the situation even if he never intended to kill anybody.

I think that blacks are justifiably a bit angrier about this case though. I wonder how jury selection is going to go.

[benjipwns]

Here's the poll results:

[Positive Touch]

SO MANY white people that i've talked to about this seem to be getting lots of bullshit info, or they end up hearing tons of stuff like the garbage zimmerman's family was saying about him, but not a lot about the actual facts of the case.  most of them didn't even know about crucial stuff like the call to martin's girlfriend.  i think one of the main reasons for that is the unwillingness of so many in the media to just call it like it is.

[benjipwns]

I agree, I really don't understand* the rallying to Zimmerman aspect that's been going on. I hadn't really been paying attention to this (or much of anything due to work) until I read up on things the other day from the last few weeks to see what the big deal was.

I think Mupepe noted above that even gun rights folks are not on board with this, that the guy fucked up a bunch of times and that the Stand Your Ground law shouldn't have kicked in. And what I've read is pretty consistent with that take. (Also, that the law seems to be poorly worded and unnecessary.)

But I have seen people who are otherwise total pro-drug legalization, pro-freedom to be stupid, etc. types constantly bringing up how Martin was a WANNABE THUG and PROBABLY A DRUG DEALER! It's like they saw Sharpton and co being the shitty humans they are and instantly decided they had to fight THEIR REAL ENEMY! (Or they decided this is when to reveal your racism, when a black kid gets shot. But, the other guy is a hispanic, THUS AN ILLEGAL!) What's the saying hard cases make bad law.

That girlfriends testimony is SUSPECT because SHE HAS A REASON TO SAY NICE THINGS! Unlike Zimmerman's family and himself, of course.

The "white Hispanic" stupidity probably didn't help people decide on their sides. (Though it did help me to learn that apparently in federal crime statistics that victims are listed as Hispanic, but criminals as white. Though I haven't explored this further to see if it's an actual policy.)

Mostly though I don't understand* why it's become such a major story. It's not like the case mentioned in the Race Warz thread or Jose Guerena or Kelly Thomas or Cory Maye or all these cases that pro-Zimmerman people are bringing up that nobody ever cares about except maybe Radley Balko. Why did this one take off? Because the prosecutor put the kibosh on it? I think from what I've seen that Zimmerman likely tried to illegally detain Martin, Martin resisted and got the better of him and Zimmerman shot him. That's all I can tell.  That's a tough case to prove in court when there's really only one story being told.

The Martin coming back to jump Zimmerman and then reaching for a gun he didn't know the guy had theory makes less sense. I suppose it's possible Martin somehow came back to see what he was up to, but why would he suddenly jump him? FOR DRUG DEALER STREET CRED TO POST ON YOUTUBES! Oh... if he knew the guy had a gun why did he THE RACE BAITERS ARE TRYING TO PROTECT THE THUG HIS NOSE WAS BROKEN AND SKULL CRACKED OPEN WITH BRAINS FALLING OUT but if Zimmerman's head was being smashed into the ground why did the paramedics not take him to a hospital to check if he was going to die immediately? THE BOY SAID HE WAS A THUG ON TWITTER

I say we just arrest Spike Lee**, everyone wins.

On the upside, from watching Hannity last night to see what he was going to address, I learned that Barack Obama and some Asian guy want to force us into Sharia Law.

And that Hannity pronounces "Axis" as "Access" so he has that going for him.

Which makes me wonder, was Trayvon Martin a Muslim? Obama says he could be his son, have we examined the birth certificate? I'm just asking questions.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

*To be fair, I didn't really know why we were talking about Sandra Fluke's vagina and what somebody said about her for weeks either. But what do I know. What do we all know? Can we really know anything?

**for being a Knicks fan.

[close]

[Mr. Gundam]

I don't know anyone in real life that supports Zimmerman on this. Probaby because I live in librul whiteyville.

[benjipwns]

Although I'm probably having a meltdown in the GAF thread defending a stupid point, there is news:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/george-zimmerman-to-be-charged-in-trayvon-martin-shooting-law-enforcement-official-says/2012/04/11/gIQAHJ5oAT_story.html

Florida special prosecutor Angela Corey plans to announce as early as this afternoon that she is charging neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman in the shooting of Trayvon Martin, according to a law enforcement official close to the investigation.

It was not immediately clear what charge Zimmerman will face.
...
The announcement of a charge against Zimmerman would come a day after Zimmerman’s lawyers withdrew from the case, citing their inability to contact Zimmerman.

Lawyers Craig Sonner and Hal Uhrig Tuesday expressed concern about Zimmerman’s emotional and physical well-being, saying he has taken actions without consulting them. They also said they do not know where Zimmerman is.

“You can stop looking in Florida,” Uhrig told reporters. “Look much further away than that.”

[Phoenix Dark]

The fact that it took so long is a disgrace

[benjipwns]

I wonder what came up.

I've been consuming a ton on defense attorneys lately for something else and them ditching like this is just weird.

He has to have no case right?

[benjipwns]

They said last night he was still in the U.S. but in hiding.

Maybe he's looking for a Bronco to drive to the airport or something.

[Steve Youngblood]

I agree, I really don't understand* the rallying to Zimmerman aspect that's been going on. I hadn't really been paying attention to this (or much of anything due to work) until I read up on things the other day from the last few weeks to see what the big deal was.

Well, there's always going to be blatant racists who just assume that a black person having a crime perpetrated against them probably had it coming.

But as for people who tend to be a little more reasonable and less wantonly racist, I think gravitating towards Zimmerman's side of the story is really born more out of a misguided dislike of the cultural narrative. Meaning, some people I think feel a little threatened -- that black people are rallying behind this and looking to blame anyone and everyone. It's kind of the same thought process that leads some to resent any discussion of slavery or of descendants of slaves expressing resentment over that chapter of America's history. Some people just (irrationally, in my mind) don't like that that resentment might barely hit them as collateral damage.

"I'm so sick of people complaining about slavery! I'm not responsible for what my great, great grandfather did! I wasn't even alive, then! That was so far in the past! Can we just stop talking about it!"

I think that line of thought makes its way into cases like this for some. "Oh boy. Black people are going to be angry at the white man over this, and that makes me uncomfortable." And rather than moving past that and realizing that the lack of due process in regards to this case was worthy of outrage by anyone, some I think just felt compelled to proceed down the course of going "Hey, what if we examine that this isn't worthy of being outraged over at all? Maybe the narrative is all wrong, and Martin wasn't innocent. If that's true, there's no reason for racial tension at all!"

[Himu]

I agree, I really don't understand* the rallying to Zimmerman aspect that's been going on. I hadn't really been paying attention to this (or much of anything due to work) until I read up on things the other day from the last few weeks to see what the big deal was.

Well, there's always going to be blatant racists who just assume that a black person having a crime perpetrated against them probably had it coming.

But as for people who tend to be a little more reasonable and less wantonly racist, I think gravitating towards Zimmerman's side of the story is really born more out of a misguided dislike of the cultural narrative. Meaning, some people I think feel a little threatened -- that black people are rallying behind this and looking to blame anyone and everyone. It's kind of the same thought process that leads some to resent any discussion of slavery or of descendants of slaves expressing resentment over that chapter of America's history. Some people just (irrationally, in my mind) don't like that that resentment might barely hit them as collateral damage.

"I'm so sick of people complaining about slavery! I'm not responsible for what my great, great grandfather did! I wasn't even alive, then! That was so far in the past! Can we just stop talking about it!"

I think that line of thought makes its way into cases like this for some. "Oh boy. Black people are going to be angry at the white man over this, and that makes me uncomfortable." And rather than moving past that and realizing that the lack of due process in regards to this case was worthy of outrage by anyone, some I think just felt compelled to proceed down the course of going "Hey, what if we examine that this isn't worthy of being outraged over at all? Maybe the narrative is all wrong, and Martin wasn't innocent. If that's true, there's no reason for racial tension at all!"

[Phoenix Dark]

Second degree murder charge, he's in custody.

live stream
http://www.cbsnews.com/2718-100_162-730.html?tag=watchnow

[Phoenix Dark]

Why the fuck would he even talk to Hannity, even worse why would Hannity talk to him? All it does is hurt his chances

[Barry Egan]

The fact that it took so long is a disgrace

Yep, but I am extremely glad its happening all the same.  I was pretty much convinced he wouldn't stand trial.

[Phoenix Dark]

Al Sharpton holding a press conference with the family. He claims the prosecution only decided to take a second look at the case due to public pressure, which is ridiculous and insulting to the prosecutors. They take their time. No, I'm not happy it took this long. But jeez this idiot can't help but make ridiculous comments.

You'd think someone would have told the family that all he does is hurt them in the court of public opinion

[Himu]

Awesome news

[Human Snorenado]

My prediction- he'll cop a plee for manslaughter, be out in 4 years on good behavior.

Or it will go to trial and he'll be found not guilty, causing HELTER SKELTER RACE WARZ to finally happen.

[Himu]

Since the charge is second degree murder, I doubt he'll be found guilty. Manslaughter though, would nab a guilty verdict I think.

[brawndolicious]

Al Sharpton holding a press conference with the family. He claims the prosecution only decided to take a second look at the case due to public pressure, which is ridiculous and insulting to the prosecutors. They take their time. No, I'm not happy it took this long. But jeez this idiot can't help but make ridiculous comments.

You'd think someone would have told the family that all he does is hurt them in the court of public opinion

Wasn't it always rumored that Zimmerman's dad who is an ex judge may have called in some favors to get this swept under the rug? The fact that he wasn't immediately arrested and processed by the police is what raised a red flag for a lot of people.

[Madrun Badrun]

He claims the prosecution only decided to take a second look at the case due to public pressure, which is ridiculous and insulting to the prosecutors.

How is it not true though?  As far as I know there isn't new evidence which would get them to change their minds, nor do I think most cases gat second chances.

[Timber]

Would a not guilty verdict result in the the RACE WARZ thread becoming a reality? I want you guys to be safe. You can seek asylum in Europe if you want to but only if you promise not to murder our black teenagers, thanks.

[Timber]

Would a not guilty verdict result in the the RACE WARZ thread becoming a reality? I want you guys to be safe. You can seek asylum in Europe if you want to but only if you promise not to murder our black teenagers, thanks.

That was a dumb post though.

The flipside of that question: If Zimmerman is found guilty and put behind bars, what are the chances legislators will look at the Stand Your Ground law and call for revisions or even repeal? I mean, whichever way the Zimmerman case ends, will there be a follow-up concerning the clusterfuck of factors that made this thing such a hot topic?

[tiesto]

They will find him Not Guilty, he will be the white man's version of OJ. (actually I am just making shit up, I have no clue what will happen nor am I really paying attention)

[brawndolicious]

OJ had the best defense money can buy , and he didn't kill a random kid for no reason.

If they're charging hjm with 2nd degree murder, then I would think a manslaughter conviction is the worst case scenario.

Not even a racist would want to be on a jury that let Zimmerman go, assuming the jurors identities are not kept secret.

[Boogie]

OJ had the best defense money can buy , and he didn't kill a random kid for no reason.

If they're charging hjm with 2nd degree murder, then I would think a manslaughter conviction is the worst case scenario.

Not even a racist would want to be on a jury that let Zimmerman go, assuming the jurors identities are not kept secret.

Ladies and gentlemen, the finest legal mind of our generation.

[Madrun Badrun]

hjm lad

[brawndolicious]

Ladies and gentlemen, the finest legal mind of our generation.

Lecture me Professor Mountie. I'm barely talking about the law actually, just saying this is what jurors would probably think about with all the media attention on this case.

[Sman]

This case is so polarizing, I wonder if there are actually racists out there who still hate all blacks yet can recognize at the same time Zimmerman is probably a trigger-happy loon. It doesn't seem possible...

[Oblivion]

Why the fuck would he even talk to Hannity, even worse why would Hannity talk to him? All it does is hurt his chances

Certain pundits have said that may actually have been a good idea, since it bring politics into the mix, and thus give Zimmerman more protection.

[Mupepe]

This case is so polarizing, I wonder if there are actually racists out there who still hate all blacks yet can recognize at the same time Zimmerman is probably a trigger-happy loon. It doesn't seem possible...

I think it's possible.  Look at all the people who say "Well Zimmerman shouldn't have ever gotten out of his truck, but did you see those gangster pictures of Martin?  The kid probably deserved it"

Those people are exactly what you described IMO.

[FlameofCallandorReturns]

So now that pictures of a bloody Zimmerman have been released I'm sure all you turd nuggets are going to apologize for jumping to conclusions. Right?

[Joe Molotov]

No, pretty sure he's still scum.

[FlameofCallandorReturns]

oh, he's got a little cut on the back of his head.  well, that certainly justifies killing someone.

Oh thats right, you were there. Tell me more about how it happened.

[Phoenix Dark]

It's still odd that he displayed no signs of injury when taken to the police station. In fact, he didn't have any bandages on the back of his head, and the officers weren't even wearing latex gloves. No one is denying a fight broke out, or that Trayvon held his own to a certain degree.

[Steve Youngblood]

So now that pictures of a bloody Zimmerman have been released I'm sure all you turd nuggets are going to apologize for jumping to conclusions. Right?

What do people need to apologize for? I'm being sincere. Why do you think this represents some sort of game-changer? I think most people believed that there was a physical altercation, there. The premise for calling for the arrest didn't rest on an assumption that Zimmerman shot him completely unprovoked in cold blood. It rested primarily on the realization that:

A. He had no reason to suspect and follow him to begin with.
B. Despite the fact that Martin may not have been completely helpless, it's really difficult to get on board with the notion that the armed vigilante chasing an unarmed individual for no reason against the recommendation of 911 has a righteous claim to murder someone and claim self-defense.

Might I suggest reconsidering the smug tone?

[Great Rumbler]

Lots of physical altercations involve some blood, most don't end with one participant shooting the other.

[Himu]

i like how having small injuries justifies killing someone

okay!

[Huff]

Yeah dude, if a dude is stopping me for nothing I'm not just going to let him.

Now if someone stopped you for nothing, why wouldn't you just stop and explain the situation? As we've seen, escalating the situation can end with death.

[Trent Dole]

Goddamnit, this is in the court system now. The court system moves slow. Everybody :stfu and wait.

[Huff]

No, and I'm not talking about the case really. I don't know what happened and I'm not going to try and guess. Not trying to imply that Trayvon was at fault/escalated the situation. 

You just said that if you were stopped for no reason you wouldn't let him stop you. Just trying to find out what that means/what you'd do.

[Steve Youngblood]

You just said that if you were stopped for no reason you wouldn't let him stop you. Just trying to find out what that means/what you'd do.

Does it matter? I mean, if it were me, I might have been more diplomatic since I venture about neither armed nor confident in my ability to handle myself in a scrap. However, I'm slightly uneasy with your suggestion, mainly in that I'm uncomfortable with the notion that it would be prudent to be more respectful to assholes parading about with a false sense of authority, lest they be armed and murder us for our insolence.

Mind you, I understand that sometimes caution is wise. However, many people will argue that respect is earned. Just because I'm a pussy doesn't mean that everyone else should be advised to follow in my ways.

[Huff]

You just said that if you were stopped for no reason you wouldn't let him stop you. Just trying to find out what that means/what you'd do.

Does it matter? I mean, if it were me, I might have been more diplomatic since I venture about neither armed nor confident in my ability to handle myself in a scrap. However, I'm slightly uneasy with your suggestion, mainly in that I'm uncomfortable with the notion that it would be prudent to be more respectful to assholes parading about with a false sense of authority, lest they be armed and murder us for our insolence.

Mind you, I understand that sometimes caution is wise. However, many people will argue that respect is earned. Just because I'm a pussy doesn't mean that everyone else should be advised to follow in my ways.

I'm just asking what's the benefit of acting all macho? Trying to deal with it as calmly and peacefully as possible seems like the main way to get out safely knowing these kinds of people are out there. Armed. Should we be disrespectful to these people?

[Steve Youngblood]

I'm just asking what's the benefit of acting all macho? Trying to deal with it as calmly and peacefully as possible seems like the main way to get out safely knowing these kinds of people are out there. Armed. Should we be disrespectful to these people?

It depends on how you're looking at the situation. Again, if my prime concern is "I don't want to piss off a nutjob," then sure, I guess I should be polite and diplomatic even if I rightly am offended that some asshole with no authority is attempting to stop/detain me for no reason. However, I also wouldn't fault people for being disrespectful in response to being disrespected.

Furthermore, I don't necessarily think that the takeaway of a story like this is to look at the victim and surmise that this is an example of when "keepin' it real goes wrong," at least when we're talking about Martin. I think it's perfectly apt for Zimmerman.

And, the benefit of being macho -- assuming you don't get killed -- is that it might promote being more careful for would-be vigilantes parading about with a false sense of authority. "Wait, people don't have to respect my non-existent authority. Perhaps I should reconsider what I'm doing."

Someone politely answering my questions to my satisfaction hardly instills in me that I have no right to detain people.

[Barry Egan]

You just said that if you were stopped for no reason you wouldn't let him stop you. Just trying to find out what that means/what you'd do.

Does it matter? I mean, if it were me, I might have been more diplomatic since I venture about neither armed nor confident in my ability to handle myself in a scrap. However, I'm slightly uneasy with your suggestion, mainly in that I'm uncomfortable with the notion that it would be prudent to be more respectful to assholes parading about with a false sense of authority, lest they be armed and murder us for our insolence.

Mind you, I understand that sometimes caution is wise. However, many people will argue that respect is earned. Just because I'm a pussy doesn't mean that everyone else should be advised to follow in my ways.

I'm just asking what's the benefit of acting all macho? Trying to deal with it as calmly and peacefully as possible seems like the main way to get out safely knowing these kinds of people are out there. Armed. Should we be disrespectful to these people?

Are you sure you aren't just a bigot though?  Why not just be honest about it, I personally will respect you a lot more.

[Huff]

You just said that if you were stopped for no reason you wouldn't let him stop you. Just trying to find out what that means/what you'd do.

Does it matter? I mean, if it were me, I might have been more diplomatic since I venture about neither armed nor confident in my ability to handle myself in a scrap. However, I'm slightly uneasy with your suggestion, mainly in that I'm uncomfortable with the notion that it would be prudent to be more respectful to assholes parading about with a false sense of authority, lest they be armed and murder us for our insolence.

Mind you, I understand that sometimes caution is wise. However, many people will argue that respect is earned. Just because I'm a pussy doesn't mean that everyone else should be advised to follow in my ways.

I'm just asking what's the benefit of acting all macho? Trying to deal with it as calmly and peacefully as possible seems like the main way to get out safely knowing these kinds of people are out there. Armed. Should we be disrespectful to these people?

Are you sure you aren't just a bigot though?  Why not just be honest about it, we will respect you a lot more.

Bigot? I don't think so. I think Zimmerman is 100% at fault. And no way did Martin deserve to be questioned by him in the first place.

But he was stopped and questioned and killed. I'm just wondering what I would do in that situation to avoid the ending

[Trent Dole]

[AdmiralViscen]

You just said that if you were stopped for no reason you wouldn't let him stop you. Just trying to find out what that means/what you'd do.

Does it matter? I mean, if it were me, I might have been more diplomatic since I venture about neither armed nor confident in my ability to handle myself in a scrap. However, I'm slightly uneasy with your suggestion, mainly in that I'm uncomfortable with the notion that it would be prudent to be more respectful to assholes parading about with a false sense of authority, lest they be armed and murder us for our insolence.

Mind you, I understand that sometimes caution is wise. However, many people will argue that respect is earned. Just because I'm a pussy doesn't mean that everyone else should be advised to follow in my ways.

I'm just asking what's the benefit of acting all macho? Trying to deal with it as calmly and peacefully as possible seems like the main way to get out safely knowing these kinds of people are out there. Armed. Should we be disrespectful to these people?

Are you sure you aren't just a bigot though?  Why not just be honest about it, we will respect you a lot more.

Bigot? I don't think so. I think Zimmerman is 100% at fault. And no way did Martin deserve to be questioned by him in the first place.

But he was stopped and questioned and killed. I'm just wondering what I would do in that situation to avoid the ending

Nothing can be done if a Paranoid person with a gun stops you in the street at night. Carpe diem

[Positive Touch]

I'm just wondering what I would do in that situation to avoid the ending

well you're white so it would have never come up

[T234]

I'm not saying I'm gonna start shit, but I'm certainly not goin to forgo my rights and allow someone to physically detain me for walking on the street.

Exactly. Some random non-popo asshole tries to detain me on the street for no reason, that motherfucker is probably gonna die or be seriously injured to the point to where he will NOT try it again on anyone. And if he makes the mistake of killing me, he'll be hunted down like an animal until he's dead by dozens of people that are not to be trifled with.