star trek

[Mods Help]

I can understand that. I honestly just hope the TV series is more in the spirit of Trek.

[Stoney Mason]

I can understand that. I honestly just hope the TV series is more in the spirit of Trek.

Agreed. And I think it will be if only for budget reasons. You can't easily do an action TV show every week on a tv budget.

[Great Rumbler]

Really not feeling that trailer at all. Maybe the movie turns out to be a lot better, but I'm not holding out hope for it.

[Tasty]

It's a sad day when the Independence Day trailer is more Star Trek than the Star Trek trailer.

[toku]

This looks dope. Can't wait to see it.

[Steve Contra]

Star Trek is naval films set in space. It's not about one character punching another character. Or if it is that is just one small part of it.

Now I just want to rewatch Master and Commander

[Madrun Badrun]

Master and Commander should have been like 20 movies.  What a great movie. 

[Steve Contra]

I was just discussing the movie with my inlaws.  It's that rare movie that is actually "adult" without being about specifically adult themes (sex, violence etc.).  it just seems made for people with a bit more life experience.  So sad it never got a sequel :'(

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New Star Trek can't be worse than Abrams Trek though, even it looks not like Star Trek

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[Stoney Mason]

I once was at a talk with Nicholas Meyer and his comparison point was Horatio Hornblower but Master and Commander works too. That should be the spirit of a trek film.

[brob]

are there any films that are in the same class as master and commander when it comes to naval stuff? submarines, space ships, whatever, etc.

[Tasty]

are there any films that are in the same class as master and commander when it comes to naval stuff? submarines, space ships, whatever, etc.

Hunt for Red October?

[Steve Contra]

Not even on the same level and I like hunt for Red October

Maybe Das boot?  Although it's been years.  Wake of the Red Witch was pretty good too, and it has John Wayne doing different for once.

[brob]

das boot is a good one. I haven't seen that since my wonderful junior high german class where all we did was watch movies.   

(this is also why my german has never been more than terrible )

[Steve Contra]

Also Wake of the Red Witch has an amazing drawing of John Wayne that looks like Ted Cruz

[Phoenix Dark]

I was pretty content knowing that no trailer I viewed this year could possibly be worse than the last Batman v Superman one. Well now Star Trek robbed me of that certainty. Good lord that looks TERRIBLE.

I'll pay to see it if the Sabotage scene features some type of Beats By Dre plug. As if Apple Music will be a thing in the year 3000 whatever. 

[Great Rumbler]

This thread reminds me of what an absolutely superb movie Master and Commander was. The rare AAA blockbuster movie that isn't a constant orgy of over-the-top action bolted to dull characters and an insipid story.

[Tasty]

Sounds like I should check it out.

[chronovore]

Didn't Pegg write this one? If so, I'm still excited.

[Mods Help]

I think he did. Which is a big part of the reason I'm excited and I think that they're trying to bring in viewers by making the trailer as action-packed as possible.

[Yeti]

I'm glad to see the Dark Elves finding work after Thor: The Dark World.

[benjipwns]

I'm the most anal Trekkie maybe on here, and I actually kinda like it. It looks like a lot of it is set entirely in one planet/location. The last two films went to a new location/time period every two minutes. I'm hoping some of the more "scale" looking stuff is at the start and end of the film. To setup why they're crash landing on this planet. Which they hopefully spend 80% of it on, repairing the shuttle and running into the local species. (a.k.a. stealing from The Galileo Seven and like five other TOS episodes some of which in later years did it in reverse to save set costs) And then obviously the big battle to end it cuz you gotta do that.

Pegg said he and the other writer when writing the script were doing it while watching the entire TOS run almost twice over. So I can see why their brains were focused on recreating a location that looks like Vasquez Rocks and Bronson Canyon. And why they might snag the "trapped on a planet" trope.

The "Sabotage" thing might be a reference to the first film, it's what Kirk's playing on his NOKIA car phone/device when he steals the "antique" car and drives into that giant canyon in Iowa.


The only question I have is if this turns out to be the best individual property of the reboot and beats out the well-written and plotted Star Trek: The Video Game. (The comics are a different, more positive thing.) It also doesn't seem as up its own ass as Into Darkness was.

[benjipwns]

The three best Star Trek films are:
The Wrath of Khan - A "nuclear arms" submarine thriller. (Khan and Kirk never meet in person.)
The Undiscovered Country - A murder/conspiracy mystery, prison break film and cold war allegory. It also explores Kirk's (and other crew members) racism towards the Klingons. (And vice versa. Some of the blatantly racist lines were re-written, struck or moved to other characters after Nichelle Nichols and other black actors (like the one Admiral) refused to say them or be present because they were racist lines replacing distinguished black fellow with Klingons.)
Galaxy Quest - A big screen version of the TV show.

The Search for Spock and The Voyage Home are companion pieces for the themes of Khan, aging and dying. Even The Slow-Motion Picture touches on it during the gang back together, Kirk dying to take over command while pretending he's not, Sulu talking about his own command, etc. Hell, even The Final Frontier taps into the narrative arc of the crew, especially the three main characters, developing as characters/relationships.

First Contact is considered an action movie but there's actually very little extended action in it, it's more the race against time on the planet, and then the interplay between an Alien-type trapped on submarine film vs. Picard's Moby Dick obsession and Data's quest for humanity being exploited/a gambit.

Insurrection's original idea (as outlined in that unpublished book Fade In you can find or I can link) was supposed to be a rejection of the "darker" Star Trek that First Contact and the Dominion War represented, with Picard rebelling against The Federation betraying its ideals. It's still sorta there in the film, but it's all wack and shit with the 300 year old chick and the Son'a and so on.

Nemesis is the most actiony Trek film and it still has the best ship battles of the films, and the worst live-action scenes (dune buggy, shuttle in the ship, fight over the endless pit) of the films.

Generations is just a bad movie because it was written by the same two people at the same time as All Good Things and I think they accidentally put all their bad ideas in one pile and good ones in another. Also, Generations had all sorts of studio mandates including involving Kirk, how much screen time each actor was to have, etc. which tears the plot completely apart because it has to fit those things in, in ways that don't make any sense.

If you look at the themes of The Motion Picture and The Final Frontier and ignore their execution woes (due in part to no budget constrants/2001's recent release and then extreme budget constrants with loss of special effects staff) they're very Trekian. Gods, creators, sentient machines, non-explainable alien powers, etc.

Master and Commander should have been like 20 movies.  What a great movie.

It was supposed to be launching a series, but it was effectively a bomb. It's based off a series of like 20 books: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aubrey%E2%80%93Maturin_series

Master and Commander is a god-like film. Not seeing the enemy throughout. And then the engagement is a quick and orderly battle in comparison to the rest of the film rather than an extremely long massive setpiece with overly grand strategy. (Their key ruse is...putting up a fake flag, then pulling it down two minutes later "SURPRISE WE'RE A REAL SHIP" and firing their cannons.)

That said, it needs a rifftrax. Kevin Murphy's pointed out there's not a single woman in the film but that's like the only thing they can make fun of. I strongly disagree, Russell Crowe has some incredibly strange reactions to things. (EDIT: There's also a fair amount of amusing "ooo me accent's slippin" moments.)

Regarding a sequel:
https://twitter.com/russellcrowe/status/198188938287001601
https://twitter.com/russellcrowe/status/11710830559109120
 

[benjipwns]

Just noticed, if you don't count the ones on the title cards/Enterprise, there's zero lens flares in the entire trailer.

[benjipwns]

I once was at a talk with Nicholas Meyer and his comparison point was Horatio Hornblower but Master and Commander works too. That should be the spirit of a trek film.

You can tell this with the theme he had composed for the film and is used throughout, I've always heard it described as "swashbuckling" and similar:

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Nimoy had fun with his opening themes too and sell the mood of both films:



And the feeling of scale and foreboding in VI's is stronger than anything I've gotten from the Abrams/Giacchino attempts at epic and "darkness" and so on...yet the film is still one of, if not the most, the funnier ones:


I always have loved how First Contact used the fanfare and then went somewhere completely different, it might be my real favorite Trek theme:

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Meyer was going to use The Undiscovered Country as the tag for II, but the studio wanted something more to the point, I'm glad he got to use it for VI which it fits far better and is one of my favorite film/game/whatever ": tags".

[seagrams hotsauce]

Man, shame on the Beastie Boys for taking the check for this. They sued some small girls toy company of a parody of "Girls" in one of their commercials due to Adam Yauch being staunchly against using their music for advertising, but this flies? Lame.

[Human Snorenado]

While using their songs in Star Trek movies is dumb, that's not actually how the girls science thing went down. The company sued THEM first.

http://www.spin.com/2014/03/beastie-boys-goldieblox-lawsuit-apology/

[seagrams hotsauce]

I forgot about that, though that was a preemptive suit based on a threat of copyright infringement. I completely respect that, it just seems at odds with hearing Sabotage so prominently in a blockbuster trailer. I wonder if there's some kind of wankery with the licensing since it was used in one of the other movies.

[Stoney Mason]

For me its also an interesting contrast between how on tone the marketing for the New Star Wars was in comparison to this. Now however that movie ends up, they didn't feel like they needed to fast and furious up the trailers. They made it to spark nostalgia for older fans while still being somewhat modern.

This by comparison doesn't really pay much homage to what old fans really like about Star Trek. Obviously that's because the size of the fanbases but still, it probably also applies very much on the creative end for the finished product.

[Human Snorenado]

I mean, here's the thing though- they got the Fast and Furious director to direct the new Trek. So, I understand that that's what they're showing off, because that's what he does. I expected it. I'm still upset about it, but whatever, I'm resigned to it. It probably won't suck but it's not gonna out Guardians of the Galaxy the actual next Guardians of the Galaxy.

[Stoney Mason]

The current box office size for Star Trek is as big as its going to get and that's with the maximum amount of dumbing things down and turning them into generic action movies.

So I guess my problem is more that the best they can hope to do is maintain what they've already done. It's not going to get any bigger, the dumber they make it.

I'm resigned to the fact that current Trek movies will always be what they are as long as they are on the big screen and the current environment is Star Trek needs to try to be as big as whatever is the current biggest franchise in movies.

[Stoney Mason]

For what its worth I'm one of the rare people who prefers Into Darkness over the original reboot movie.

I think its generally faster paced. And is a better "modern" movie in the sense that the reboot for me is relying mostly on nostalgia to work its magic. I was actually curious where things were going in Darkness versus the reboot where everything was extremely obvious and took a long time to do the obvious. I know that opinion is not very common though.

They both aren't good traditional trek films but I preferred one over the other.

[benjipwns]

I think one real problem with the recent Trek movies is they were given the budget and berth of a much larger franchise. They're spending $150-200 million on films that are only bringing back $250 million in the U.S.

The first six films in back then dollars they spent $12-35 million and made back $50-110 million.

They wanted to shoot Into Darkness outside of L.A. to save costs, but Abrams said no, and they said "okay." After the first one made $250 million U.S. on $150 million budget.

They're making that back on the international market now, but I've always felt like Trek's been killed by sprawling budgets and works better with forced constraints. Wrath of Khan was made on $12 million, The Motion Picture on $35 million. First Contact cost $46 million and two years later Insurrection cost $70 million. Khan and Contact are tight, Motion and Insurrection sprawl endlessly.

Enterprise became a better show when its budget got chopped after season one and two and they had to manage the location shots and reuse sets/actors much better which at times involved plot stretching.

I'm not sure the plots of the two recent movies wouldn't work better as say a six-parter on a TV show. Stuff like Khan and Undiscovered Country and First Contact worked better as films to keep up the pace and tension constrained within the two hours. The last two films were more like they took a bunch of episodes, trimmed out 80% of them and then jammed them together. We barely get anything out of Kirk at the academy before everyone flies off to die with Vulcan. They cut out all of Nero's entire backstory.

Kinda like trying to fit that ten-part arc that ends DS9 into a film or even two. You can do it and still hit every key plot point, but you lose a lot of the character stuff/etc. because ten minute scenes become 45 seconds and on to the next one. You can't afford Damar's sarcastic bouts with Weyoun, or Worf and Dax coming to terms, or any of the Garak "returning from exile" stuff they did when you also have to show how they finished off the war.

[benjipwns]

Stoney, I actually kinda like Into Darkness more than the first film too. The opening part is actually great and wish that was longer, and it does way better showing off Kirk's "I don't believe in no-win scenarios" scheming. Him and Spock outwitting Khan's plan merely by bluffing and betting on what the other will do was exactly what they did to Khan four times in the original timeline. And way better than whatever they did to Nero in the first movie.

For trailer comparison:

This was the first trailer for the first film:


And this was the first for Into Darkness:


And here's all ten originals + 2009 back to back apparently:

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boo that just has a commercial for VI, actual teaser and trailer...EDIT: same for First Contact and Insurrection:

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[benjipwns]

 

I forgot about the Search for Spock trailer completely spoiling the climax and how pissed Nimoy was.

Also, lol at how Insurrection looks like a completely different movie.

And it's kinda amusing to see how trailers have changed over the years via just one franchise. Made me realize voiceovers and title readings are basically dead. Nemesis is the first one that makes the trailer completely out of music and voice clips from the film/loops.

[benjipwns]

[benjipwns]

[Elba's] playing someone named Kraal (which is Faraci’s guess at how it’s spelled) who, despite the Klingon-sounding name, is from a species we’ve never seen before.

Lin says that Kraal is going to question Kirk and crew about the Federation’s ideology:

I really like his character because he’s challenging the Federation’s philosophy, and it’s something growing up I wanted to see. He’s a character that has a distinct philosophy. Sometimes I watch Trek and I see utopia in San Francisco, and you think “They don’t have money, so how do they live, how do they compete?” Those are things that his character, in a way, has a very distinct and valid point of view about…when someone is really challenging a way of life, how the Federation should act, I can see – right or wrong – that this is a valid point of view, and that’s a point of entry.”

Many have noticed that Roberto Orci, John Payne, and Patrick McKay are listed as co-writers in both the trailer and a recent IMAX press release.  According to Lin, the film’s writers are Simon Pegg and Doug Jung:

The WGA has to figure it out, because I don’t know who those writers are, I never met them. I came on, I had an idea and then Simon and Doug came on. I had one conversation with Orci after I came on, and that was it.

When asked if any elements whatsoever were reused from previous scripts, Lin is very clear:

Nothing was refurbished [from the first script] because I don’t know what was done before I came on.

Ultimately, the script will go to arbitration and the Writer’s Guild will make the final call on who receives screenwriting credits, but it appears that the Star Trek Beyond script is exclusively a Pegg/Jung production.

[Mods Help]

Avatar bet time.

People who think this movie is gonna rock have to change our avatars if this ends up being doo doo. To whatever embarrassing. Choose wisely.

People who claim this is gonna be Fast n Furious in space and is gonna suck change their avatars to splatoon/mlp/whatever for a month.

[Human Snorenado]

Here's the thing, though- I totally think it's gonna be Fast and Furious in space, but I don't think it will suck because of that. It's just not what I *WANT* out of ST.

My whole point has been that you have plenty of avenues to see good dumb (I mean that in a positive way) action movies. I currently have no way of seeing new ST movies, and from the looks of things won't get that in Beyond.

Thus the disappointment.

[Human Snorenado]

Also, for my money, this is the best ship battle from the original movies. Sometimes I'll just put it on whenever I have 5 or so minutes.

"I can see you, Kirk."

[benjipwns]

Back off! Back off!

spoiler (click to show/hide)

I love how in the film it cuts between it and the events at the conference/assassination setup.

Also sometimes while driving fast on the expressway I'll say "She'll fly apart! FLY HER APART THEN!" Especially in my last car which would shake when when accelerating at higher gears.

 

[close]

[benjipwns]

This is I think my favorite part of any of the Trek movies, especially 5:00+.

"Let them eat static."



*Goes to put on glasses, looks around at crew* "Damn."

The pacing of this entire film is amazing, I wonder how well you could get away with it these days with any big name franchise or if you really do need that ADHD film-making style with thirty cuts per minute for major movie fandom. (I remember complaints about Casino Royale's baccarat poker scene killing the pacing of the film when I thought it rather one of the most tension filled parts of the movie. Though I guess the Harry Potter and Tolkien movies did alright with a fairly slow pacing. Maybe the books protected those.)

"Mister Saavik, you go right on quoting regulations."

[Stoney Mason]

For what its worth.

"It was very action-packed -- yeah, it was surprising. I find [the trailer] to be the marketing people saying 'Everybody come and see this film, it's full of action and fun!'...

There's a lot more to [the movie] than that. I didn't love [the trailer] because I know there's a lot more to the film. There's a lot more story, and a lot more character stuff, and a lot more of what I call 'Star Trek stuff.'

But, you know, [Paramount has to] bring a big audience in; they've got to bang the drum. To the 'Star Trek' fans, I'd say hang in there and be patient."

[toku]

I believe in Simon Pegg and Justin Lin fuck all y'all. Hopefully the new tv show fills that void you're missing.

[benjipwns]

I had read like six months ago that both Lin and Pegg were recommended by the main producers to not look at any of Orci's third film work. And that Pegg wanting to write it was encouraged by Lin and everyone since he was a big TOS fan. Orci was pulling lots of power play shit after the first film apparently and even more after the second like trying to force Paramount into letting him direct, that's one reason why Abrams was wavering on coming back to direct Into Darkness (I assume another is that he was tired of hearing Orci's explanations of how fire can't melt steel) and it took four years to get made. And his former partner Kurtzman recently split off.

Pegg's comments are encouraging. So are Lin's about how they basically ignored the first two films and super blood and so on. Watch this wind up an only slightly blockbustered up version of a TOS episode that actually uses the characters as more than stand-ins, duds at the box office, gets a 70% RT score and leads to a HUELEN10 essay about how Lin has betrayed the franchise.

Pine was also making encouraging comments and re-upped to do more films, as did Quinto. Both after Pegg finished the script...

Let's start an irrational hype train brehs.

Star Trek is back y'all.
 

[toku]

Yep watch it be the best, by far. Let them give Pegg and Lin exec credits for the tv show too. I'm not trying to see TNG/DS9 but in 2015 we already got movies and 10+ seasons of that. I'm not trying to see just old shit retold slightly differently s/o to The Force Awakens fans.

[Great Rumbler]

Orci and Kurtzman needs to be stopped from working on movies.

Damon Lindelof, too.

[benjipwns]

Saw it pointed out on a blog that the regular uniforms have changed. They aren't the form-fit tight tops with the insignia pattern over another tight black top anymore. Can see it clearest in the little joke part of the trailer with Spock and McCoy. They're more like TNG's later ones with a collar in terms of fit/material.

EDIT:

[benjipwns]

From the stuff they were filming in Dubai:

[benjipwns]

some OK dumb action flick franchise.

Dumb? DUMB?

Just action??? NOT ACTION/PSYCHOLOGICAL THRILLER?!?!?

spoiler (click to show/hide)

I trust in their complaints about the trailer.

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And the last two Trek's trailers showing everything out of context instead of giving away the plot like every other movie.

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[brob]

I don't think this is going to veer too far from the JJ movies and as such end up being rather plain and perfunctory, but calling the fast and the furious "some OK dumb action flick franchise" is an andrex tier opinion, wrath

[Mods Help]

Fast and furious is

[brob]

I know that justin lin has talked about wanting to make some chinese films (I believe he has specifically said he wants to remake shaolin temple?)  and I'm way more excited about that than his take on star trek.

[Mods Help]

I'll be honest, they're entertaining to me and I get their appeal I just never found them to reach any level near my favorite dumb action movies. Call me a hater just never thought they were that good. Then again I really enjoyed Expendables 2, so what do I know?

Fast and Furious movies are character based action movies that have character development and stories between movie to movie. For such a character based series director to be tied to Star Trek is only a good thing given that Star Trek is about the characters as much as the philosophy.

Fast And Furious is more than dumb action movies. They're movies that espouse a non-racial non-gender approach to family. It's unique in that it's one of the few diverse film series that treat the cast as equals and has a hopeful and positive take on those relations.

Much like Trek.

Distilling Fast and Furious as just dumb movies without looking at what makes them so approachable and so endearing is missing the mark, and I think Lin's positive philosophy could add a lot to the Trek dynamic, which again, is about the promised future where Americans, Russians, Blacks and Asians, and even aliens are treated equal under logic and shared experience.

Much like Fast and Furious.

It's funny how people claim that Justin Lin will make this one giant action fest when Lin's first F&F movie is one derided as have too little action and far too much character development.

[benjipwns]

I'll be honest, they're entertaining to me and I get their appeal I just never found them to reach any level near my favorite dumb action movies. Call me a hater just never thought they were that good. Then again I really enjoyed Expendables 2, so what do I know?

I can see the criticism for sure I don't disagree with being skeptical and I had my own doubts when Lin was announced. But the way both he and Pegg almost immediately took issue with the trailer's vibe and dismissed Orci's work, along with the good parts of the trailer in terms of setting, etc. I'm hoping this one can hit that middle ground it needs to, maybe setup even better future films (Pine and Quinto both got back on board with new contracts after doing this one when they were suggesting post-ID they were done with the films after 3) and help get the new TV series off the ground even if they're unattached.

I never really had the optimism for Star Trek and Star Trek Into Darkness as they seemed way too dumb action with Star Trek characters pasted over top from about half-way through the hype building for the first movie when J.J. said he'd never watched Star Trek and Orci/Kurtzman started talking about how they were making Trek fun and exciting for a change. Then the whole HE'S NOT KHAN, FOR REALS GUYZ.

[Stoney Mason]

You are entitled to your opinion but I agree with none of that (aimed at mods help post). I think its all one big stretch.

Fast and Furious is not what I think of when it comes to Trek. It's not what I want when it comes to Trek. In fact its possibly the very last thing.


I will reserve my judgement until the film. But Justin Lin and the Fast and Furious franchise, no disrespect to either don't have any connection to me and trek and it seems like a terrible idea. We'll see how it turns out.   

[Mods Help]

I like Lin and Pegg's transparency so far. It could go either way for sure. I'm not saying F&F is directly comparable to Trek. But there are things I like about both that both share and I'm deeply interested in Lin's and Pegg's approach to Trek. So I'm hopeful. But as with TFA pre-release,  don't mistake that for not also being cautious.

[Mods Help]

I'm just saying I think he has the capabilities. If he gets Trek, we will see the results. JJ never got Trek and it shows even if they're fun dumb Star Wars stuff.

Anyways, Star Trek premieres in two years. You have two years to brush up on your shit, Wrath. Watch TOS or its movie series. All of them are good to great.

[benjipwns]

Paramount telling Orci to fuck off followed by Pegg and Jung saying that they binge watched TOS multiple times while writing the script was when I converted from "sigh...they're going to do it a third time..." to "they may just save this reboot."

[Mods Help]

What's everyone TOS episode?

[Stoney Mason]

Like I said before, I honestly don't really care about the movie. The TV version is coming back anyway and that's where Trek belongs and its arguably more important. The movies at this point are just an ego stroke thing for the franchise so that's its a "major" thing.