Did Sega have any successful consoles other than the Genesis?

[Itch]

I mean, if we can call the Genesis a success to begin with (v. the SNES). I was watching a documentary on video game history on CNBC on MLK day and it seemed to suggest that Sega has never been cock of the walk when it comes to videogame hardware. Is this true? Everything before and after the Genesis was a certified failure (ie. Master System, Sega CD, 32X, Saturn, Dreamcast, etc). Was the Genesis just a fluke and Sega always been kinda sucky?

[Himu]

Dreamcast was a success in the west. It's just that it wasn't doing well in Japan.

Sega was always stupid in terms of hardware, but at least they had a good 1st party line up and 3rd party games to back them up.

You will notice that Sega was always the hardware maker that did a lot of firsts before everyone else (perfect arcade ports, arcade games that took years for consoles to catch up to, powerful hardware before it's time in general, Sega Channel, DC's internet and online play;etc) it's just that they didn't do a good means of advertising and/or released them way too early.

They didn't necessarilly suck at hardware, they sucked at knowing when to release shit. They released 32x, Sega CD, and Saturn with a triple smash release one after another which alienated a lot of their fans and confused the casual ones. That was when Sega started to lose a bit of steam, because everyone was like "Another Sega thing...again??" when Saturn came out. If they hadn't released the 32 x or CD, and actually advertised the goddamn Saturn when it came out, Sega would probably still be here and they wouldn't have lost so many fans upon Saturn's release.

[Itch]

Success relative to...?

Other Sega consoles?

Or the competition at the time? PS2, Gamecube and Xbox?

[Himu]

The reason DC bombed was mainly because Sega didn't have much drive in them (drive aka money), to keep going. I'm pretty sure Shenmue was a part of that, but also the Saturn. Read my edit.

DC was pretty popular here from my memory, but we need some solid numbers.

There was no reason why DC could have failed though, DC shouldn't have, anyways. It had everything that makes a good console so it wasn't anything Sega did. It was Sega's past mistakes which fucked them up.

[Itch]

The reason DC bombed was mainly because Sega didn't have much drive in them (drive aka money), to keep going. I'm pretty sure Shenmue was a part of that, but also the Saturn. Read my edit.

DC was pretty popular here from my memory, but we need some solid numbers.

There was no reason why DC shouldn't have failed though, DC shouldn't have, anyways. It had everything that makes a good console so it wasn't anything Sega did. It was Sega's past mistakes which fucked them up.

This isn't about which console was better subjectively. It's strictly by the numbers which, as far as I know, suggest the Genesis was a huge success for Sega and everything else just kind of wafted in the waters not really picking up steam. Sega is a one hit wonder in terms of hardware, so to speak. I'm curious about this because Sega's reputation seems to be bigger than their actual contributions to gaming. Maybe it's their arcade games that earned them their reputation because they certainly haven't done much in the home console space.

[Himu]

What? So because Sega didn't sell as much as Nintendo or Sony they didn't do anything to have earned gamers' respect?

It's just like I said. They did innovative stuff way before anyone else. Not to mention their first party line up was the best there is.

[AdmiralViscen]

Dreamcast was selling sub-100k per month throughout most of 2001, way before PS2 came out. It saw a GameCube-style sales crash.

[Itch]

Well no, Nintendo is arguably more innovative than Sega.yet they still manage to be successful in terms of sales.

I don't think sega's first party line up is "the best there is" and I was a die hard Sega fan.

[Himu]

Well no, Nintendo is arguably more innovative than Sega.yet they still manage to be successful in terms of sales.

I don't think sega's first party line up is "the best there is" and I was a die hard Sega fan.

Nintendo wasn't more innovative. Nintendo has rehashed the same games since the NES while Sega always created new and innovative games that covered all genres, most of which are considered the top of those said genres whenever they are brought up. If you want to talk about hardware innovations, Nintendo isn't more innovative than Sega. Nintendo didn't come up with the analog stick. That was in consoles before N64. Nintendo also didn't single handedly create the d-pad. There were things that were d-padish before the NES controller, it's just Nintendo applied that to it.

Nintendo's "innovation" is overrated. People like to complain about  every other console maker or developer about how they rehash the same games when Nintendo does that more, and worse.

As for Sega's first party line up:

Sonic the Hedgehog
Alex Kidd
Penguin Land
Afterburner
Hang On
Outrun
Streets of Rage
Comix Zone
Panzer Dragoon
Jet Set Radio
Chu Chu Rocket
Puyo Puyo
Space Channel 5
Samba de Amigo
Rez
Gun Valkyrie
Shinobi
Shenmue
Phantasy Star
Shining Force
Virtua Fighter
Nights
Clockwork Knight
ESWAT
Altered Beast
Gain Ground
Thunderblade
Space Harrier
Daytona
House of the Dead
Virtual On
Virtua Cop
Dragon Force
Wonderboy
Sega Rally
Crazy Taxi
Burning Rangers
Rent a Hero
Fighting Vipers
Seaman
Skies of Arcadia
Landstalker
Legend of Oasis
Beyond Oasis


vs the typical Mario, Zelda, and Metroid...um..........Kid Icarus...ummm Wario Ware............ummm. Mario sports titles. Um... what else is there? Pikmin? Shitty rpgs? F-zero (something Sega did better than Nintendo)? Nintendo's first party development team is overrated. Yes, they have polish that other games don't have, but Nintendo doesn't have the variety or innovative "let's do something no one has done before" ground that so many developers have done better. Nintendo can't even make a good rpg to save it's life.

[Cheebs]

DC's crash was far worse than GCN's in 2002 and onward. DC had a fantastic launch but was a complete and utter failure in 2001, it couldn't compete in the slightest in USA after the initial excitement wore off.  :'(

[Cheebs]

Wait what the fuck? Penguin Land, Rent A Hero, and Legend of Oasis are worth mentioning but not:

Pokemon
Animal Crossing
Donkey Kong
Kirby
Star Fox
etc...

Don't turn this into a fanboyish list thread. This isn't GAF.

[Himu]

They still are nothing compared to Sega's list of first party.

lol Animal Crossing

[AdmiralViscen]

Yea, the crash was even worse than Cube.

And yea, his lists were suck.

[ToxicAdam]

The only reason the Genesis was even a success (in NA) was Nintendos ineptness and massive software support from EA.

[Saint Cornelius]

I just wanted to say that I love Sega AND Nintendo, Genesis AND Animal Crossing.

This thread turned into fanboi bullshit as soon as someone said:

Well no, Nintendo is arguably more innovative than Sega.yet they still manage to be successful in terms of sales.

even with the "arguably" caveat, that's some bullshit.

[Cheebs]

They still are nothing compared to Sega's list of first party.

lol Animal Crossing

Fuck Animal Crossing

 SEGA HAD PENGUIN LAND! 

[MrAngryFace]

I consider Dreamcast far more successful than the poo stain genesis.

[Saint Cornelius]

You must've been too young to remember the Genesis then, because if you were playing videogames in that era you would certainly know that the Genny was NOT a poo stain.

[MrAngryFace]

Im 27, im pretty sure I was old enough to recognize 'mostly crap'. Do I need to bring up the TOURNAMENT FIGHTERS comparison again?

[etiolate]

Sega kept screwing over it's own fans and it still does today.  They dwindled down their userbase by screwing around with add-ons and then abondoning them.  They dwindled down their fanbase and their money pool by the time PS2 hit. Plus, like MS, they could never win Japan.

[Cheebs]

I was a big Sega fan(though I owned SNES, N64 and PSX as well) but one thing is plainly obvious about Sega. Sega has only been relevant in one generation. All their other consoles bombed. Their one relevant console didn't even win that "war". It lost to SNES in the end in USA and obviously was always behind worldwide. Which puts their significance in gaming "history" if you will at a lower scale than Atari, Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft. Their current dwindling sales and critical reception as a third party does not help.

[AdmiralViscen]

I was a big Sega fan(though I owned SNES, N64 and PSX as well) but one thing is plainly obvious about Sega. Sega has only been relevant in one generation. All their other consoles bombed. Their one relevant console didn't even win that "war". It lost to SNES in the end in USA and obviously was always behind worldwide. Which puts their significance in gaming "history" if you will at a lower scale than Atari, Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft. Their current dwindling sales and critical reception as a third party does not help.

Not yet.

[Cheebs]

I was a big Sega fan(though I owned SNES, N64 and PSX as well) but one thing is plainly obvious about Sega. Sega has only been relevant in one generation. All their other consoles bombed. Their one relevant console didn't even win that "war". It lost to SNES in the end in USA and obviously was always behind worldwide. Which puts their significance in gaming "history" if you will at a lower scale than Atari, Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft. Their current dwindling sales and critical reception as a third party does not help.

Not yet.

Microsoft has been relevant for two gens(360 wont be a DC or Saturn come on), thus already a bigger force on the marklet place then Sega. While MS never "won", neither did sega ever.

[Saint Cornelius]

Im 27, im pretty sure I was old enough to recognize 'mostly crap'. Do I need to bring up the TOURNAMENT FIGHTERS comparison again?

sure, do you want to make a Mortal Kombat comparison too while you're at it?

I've got six years on you, MAF. believe me, the Genesis is what STARTED casual gaming. for better or for worse. do you know how many dickhead motherfuckers that used to beat me up as a kid now wanted tips on Madden?

[Saint Cornelius]

Plus, like MS, they could never win Japan.

you've GOT to be fucking kidding me

[AdmiralViscen]

I was a big Sega fan(though I owned SNES, N64 and PSX as well) but one thing is plainly obvious about Sega. Sega has only been relevant in one generation. All their other consoles bombed. Their one relevant console didn't even win that "war". It lost to SNES in the end in USA and obviously was always behind worldwide. Which puts their significance in gaming "history" if you will at a lower scale than Atari, Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft. Their current dwindling sales and critical reception as a third party does not help.

Not yet.

Microsoft has been relevant for two gens(360 wont be a DC or Saturn come on), thus already a bigger force on the marklet place then Sega. While MS never "won", neither did sega ever.

Genesis sold a lot more than XBox, and who knows if 360 will wind up having better relative sales to PS3/Wii than Genesis did to SNES.

I don't see how MS is more relevent to gaming history than Sega for squeaking past third in a single gen and a definite second or likely third finish in their second gen.

Both Master System and Mega Drive pulled XBox-in-US-like numbers in Europe, as I know it.

Plus, like MS, they could never win Japan.

you've GOT to be fucking kidding me

?

[Saint Cornelius]

The Genesis didn't sell in Japan? The Master System? The MK whatever?

[Cheebs]

Genesis bombed in Japan. It was a total non-factor unlike USA where it was up there with SNES. Sega was nothing in Japan until Saturn.

[Himu]

You do know that Sega made things called arcade machines right? That's what made them famous in the first place.

I was a big Sega fan(though I owned SNES, N64 and PSX as well) but one thing is plainly obvious about Sega. Sega has only been relevant in one generation. All their other consoles bombed. Their one relevant console didn't even win that "war". It lost to SNES in the end in USA and obviously was always behind worldwide. Which puts their significance in gaming "history" if you will at a lower scale than Atari, Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft. Their current dwindling sales and critical reception as a third party does not help.

Why the hell do sales have to mean that much to you people? Because Sega wasn't as popular as Nintendo or Sony they were less significant? Are you fucking kidding me? Those three companies have bitten from Sega like none other.

[Cheebs]

You do know that Sega made things called arcade machines right? That's what made them famous in the first place.

I was a big Sega fan(though I owned SNES, N64 and PSX as well) but one thing is plainly obvious about Sega. Sega has only been relevant in one generation. All their other consoles bombed. Their one relevant console didn't even win that "war". It lost to SNES in the end in USA and obviously was always behind worldwide. Which puts their significance in gaming "history" if you will at a lower scale than Atari, Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft. Their current dwindling sales and critical reception as a third party does not help.

Why the hell do sales have to mean that much to you people? Because Sega wasn't as popular as Nintendo or Sony they were less significant? Are you fucking kidding me? Those three companies have bitten from Sega like none other.

There is a difference in being less popular and complete and utter bombs at the market place.

[Saint Cornelius]

You do know that Sega made things called arcade machines right? That's what made them famous in the first place.

seriously, I mean Sega, Atari & Nintendo (and Data East, Capcom, Konami, Universal, Stern, etc) WERE gaming. show some respect.

[Himu]

I can't believe these people actually try to downsize Sega's gaming innovations because they weren't as popular as the competition. VF may  not have been more popular than it's competition but it was undoubtedly influential, in fact, it layed the ground work for the entire 3d fighter genre. Sonic single handedly created the mascot with an attitude shtick. There's so much more but I'm sure it'd fall on blind eyes (since we're reading shit on the interweb).

[MrAngryFace]

six years means shit EXCEPT in all important internet videogame debates.

[Cheebs]

Sega is DEAD. 100% dead. It's third party titles are all but meaningless but you still defend them like they have a chance at success in some form.

 I don't get it. You don't go around seeing people trashing the competition so ColecoVision seems like its the most fucking awesome system ever.

[Wobedraggled]

Saturn and Dreamcast were personal victories, not commerical for me.

Both ended up witha  gaggle fo fun as fuck software.

Sega by and large is destroyed at this point though.

I never cared for the master system or genny.

Genny's limited color and shit tin can sound killed it for me.

[Cheebs]

Sega is dead as a third party, the only thing they had any sort of success out of in the last 5 years is Sonic and they are fucking that up these last few years now.

[Himu]

Sega is DEAD. 100% dead. It's third party titles are all but meaningless but you still defend them like they have a chance at success in some form.

 I don't get it. You don't go around seeing people trashing the competition so ColecoVision seems like its the most fucking awesome system ever.

What? We're not defending like that. You're actlng like because they're 3rd party they still don't deserve respect or never offered anything to the gaming industry simply because they didn't sell as much as the competition. If you were at one time a Sega fan like you claim to be, you wouldn't act like this. Sega being dead is irrelevant to this discussion.

Sega didn't die until the Sammy buy out. Even when they went to 3rd party they were still shelling out quality. Of course the idiotic GAF mentality will say other wise...of course, most of them don't have Xbox's.

[Cheebs]

Their first year of third party was great but it has gone downhill. They put out as much high quality software as THQ now.

[MrAngryFace]

SHUT UP IM OLDER THAN U!

[Himu]

Their first year of third party was great but it has gone downhill.

Can anyone answer this for me:

Were Shinobi, Panzer Dragoon Orta, Jet Set Radio, Gun Valkyrie, Otogi, and F-zero GX made during their first year of 3rd party?

[demi]

Just wanted to bump this to show how much of a tool Himuro is

fact: he didn't buy a dreamcast

fact: he didn't buy a saturn

fact: he probably didn't buy a genesis either

[Himu]

You're correct. I didn't buy one. My parents bought one for me!

I find it funny you're harpin' on someone not buying something when it came out when you buy maybe 1% of your game collection. Fido, go catch a stick.

[Yeti]

Is Gahiggidy your roommate? 

[Catz]

Wasn't Saturn marginally successful?


I loved the Dreamcast, it was a winnar to me!11!

[Mupepe]

Their add ons split their userbase and killed sales.  I love what they used to be.  They suck balls now.

[Yeti]

Even though it was pretty big, I liked the Dreamcast controller more than the PS2, Xbox, and Gamecube controllers overall.

[The Sceneman]

I think the Master System was quite successful in PAL regions, when I was a kid pretty much everyone had 'a Sega' but Nintendo was pretty much frowned upon

[The Sceneman]

Even though it was pretty big, I liked the Dreamcast controller more than the PS2, Xbox, and Gamecube controllers overall.

I'd agree but I really like the Gamecube pad. The DC controler shits all over the Playstation control

[Error2k4]

did Himuro include Altered Beast in his sega first party list and not Ristar?

 

also no shinning of the holy ark? shit, I though you were a Sega fan 

[Ichirou]

The problem with Sega is what Himu already mentioned - they released the Sega CD, 32X and Saturn way too quickly one after the other, confusing the user base (when it was first announced I thought it was like an integrated Genesis/32X/Sega CD unit).  They then overpriced the Saturn in the US and alienated Kay-Bee Toys which refused to carry it, or its games.  In Japan the Saturn was really successful, though...it was just horribly mismanaged in the US.

The Dreamcast was a huge clusterfuck, though, and that's what destroyed Sega.  The Saturn had a healthy userbase in Japan, even if it was a flop in the US, so when Bernie Stolar announced "Saturn is not our future", he basically killed that console prematurely in favor of the DC.  By the time the DC came out, pretty much nobody trusted Sega to stick with a piece of hardware for a five year lifespan (fears which were to prove true).

If Sega had stuck with the Saturn for an extra year and a half, given it strong support, and THEN released a new console, I think things would be different in the gaming scene today.  As it is, I can't think of a single Sega fan who isn't totally cynical about the company.

[Yeti]

Even though it was pretty big, I liked the Dreamcast controller more than the PS2, Xbox, and Gamecube controllers overall.

I'd agree but I really like the Gamecube pad. The DC controler shits all over the Playstation control

I liked the L and R triggers and the D-pad more on the Dreamcast controller, giving it the edge there.

[Himu]

The problem with Sega is what Himu already mentioned - they released the Sega CD, 32X and Saturn way too quickly one after the other, confusing the user base (when it was first announced I thought it was like an integrated Genesis/32X/Sega CD unit).  They then overpriced the Saturn in the US and alienated Kay-Bee Toys which refused to carry it, or its games.  In Japan the Saturn was really successful, though...it was just horribly mismanaged in the US.

The Dreamcast was a huge clusterfuck, though, and that's what destroyed Sega.  The Saturn had a healthy userbase in Japan, even if it was a flop in the US, so when Bernie Stolar announced "Saturn is not our future", he basically killed that console prematurely in favor of the DC.  By the time the DC came out, pretty much nobody trusted Sega to stick with a piece of hardware for a five year lifespan (fears which were to prove true).

If Sega had stuck with the Saturn for an extra year and a half, given it strong support, and THEN released a new console, I think things would be different in the gaming scene today.  As it is, I can't think of a single Sega fan who isn't totally cynical about the company.

I would have gotten a Saturn instead of a PSX if Sega didn't confuse the fuck out of me. The reason you listed is also the very reason I didn't get a dc when it came out. The Saturn bs made me bitter as fuck.

did Himuro include Altered Beast in his sega first party list and not Ristar?

 

also no shinning of the holy ark? shit, I though you were a Sega fan 

Altered Beast was cool back in the day. It's shit now though.

[Ichirou]

Yeah, the whole Saturn thing was confusing at first. It didn't help that Sega used all those leftover Sega CD cases for their games...they should have switched to CD cases like Sony did early on.

I got a DC about a year after it came out...I'm really happy with it still, but imagine if Sega'd held off a year and a half in releasing it and added a broadband adapter, DVD playability, and made it at least graphically equal (or almost) to the PS2.  We might still have Sega releasing consoles today. Ahh, nostalgia.

[Shuri]

The problem with the dreamcast is that nobody, nobody bought games for it, except people i knew online, and even there, it was minority.

[Ichirou]

The problem with the dreamcast is that nobody, nobody bought games for it, except people i knew online, and even there, it was minority.

So they bought the console but no games?

[Himu]

The problem with the dreamcast is that nobody, nobody bought games for it, except people i knew online, and even there, it was minority.

So they bought the console but no games?

Piracy. DC is probably the easiest console I can think of where you can pirate in a matter of minutes.

Also, isn't DC on par with ps2 in terms of graphics? I'm sure if they gave it more time it would have produced some amazing things.

[Eduardo24]

Never had a Dreamcast, but I played it quite a few times. I think the controller is better than the Xbox, GC and PS2 controllers.  Its design reminds me the 360 controller, which I think is the best control ever.

[Himu]

Many controller designs owe themselves to DC and Saturn's 3d controller, but I hate the way it feels. Too bulky. Xbox S controller and 360 controller ftw.

[Flannel Boy]

Also, isn't DC on par with ps2 in terms of graphics? I'm sure if they gave it more time it would have produced some amazing things.

No! I can't believe people still say this all these years later. It was just that the PS2 was difficult to develop for and it took developers some time to get the most out of the system.

[Himu]

Also, isn't DC on par with ps2 in terms of graphics? I'm sure if they gave it more time it would have produced some amazing things.

No! I can't believe people still say this all these years later. It was just that the PS2 was difficult to develop for and it took developers some time to get the most out of the system.

I bet you ps2 would have a bit trouble running Shenmue due to the ram.