1,000+ Pages of NeoGAF: The Story of Wasted Lives and Hardcore Salt

[Shadow Mod]

If you think that's what I'm arguing you're not reading what I'm saying here.

[Himu]

If some asshole raped, tortured and killed one of my children it'd be pretty hard for me to accept anything but the same punishment for them.

[Broseidon]

Breivik should be dead or in prison until he draws his final breath imo

[Himu]

I would try rehabilitation with Breivik. That said, with 70 murders under his belt, I think he's way past gone mentally and doubt it would help. That said, it's still worth trying. I don't think he should ever leave prison, and I doubt he will.

[Shadow Mod]

If some asshole raped, tortured and killed one of my children it'd be pretty hard for me to accept anything but the same punishment for them.

I know there is nothing to be gained lol. I'm actually trying to put myself in the headspace of someone actually affected by a killer rather than just projecting my ability to be completely separated from such vile acts and calling people "emotional" or "irrational." I wouldn't be convinced by the argument "you're just letting your emotions rule you." It's patronizing and snide, especially if I actually lost a child to a "monster."

Calling people "scum" because they don't believe in the rehab of serial killers just doesn't fly with me.

[Himu]

I agree with that in full. You are not just be "emotional" in that case. You certainly aren't scum either. Squiddy is being immature and petty.

[Squiddy]

It is incredibly unfair to load an argument emotionally like that in the first place 

Of course the victims are (in most cases) not going to want the perpetrator of horrors to get of scoff free, but like, why are you even bringing it up?
It isn't relevant, it never has been, because vengeance is neither therapeutically endorsed nor shown to have a reductive effect of overall crime rates.

You are not that person, for if you were I wouldn't even be having this hypothetical discussion. You are an outside observer debating the morality of the minutia of a justice system in another country. If you don't believe in the notion of rehabilitating, or attempting to rehabilitate, criminals then you are in my opinion petty and vengeful - or scum.

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[recursivelyenumerable]

I'm not sure what the latest Breivik thing is and looking it up might be inconvenient for what I'm about to say, so I'll just respond to the previous Breivik thing which was about his complaining about only having PS2 games or something:

I'm not sure mass murderers like him are motivated by the same things as other people. Something like what he did doesn't seem to fit into a normal hedonic calculus especially since a lot of killing spree perpetrators kill themselves (doesn't apply to him, but still). They seem to have a martyr/hero/Great Man of History complex, so being killed by the State might just be giving them what they want.

Given that, seems like to be an effective deterrent a punishment would have to be designed around the killers' unique motivations. So, making them live the most mediocre life possible, being trapped in a moderately unfashionable apartment and forced to suffer the indignity of playing slightly out-of-date video games all day, might actually be the perfect punishment.

[Kara]

http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/hardened-criminals-held-in-freedom-doing-time-on-norway-s-island-prison-a-744851.html

[I'm a Puppy!]

I say lock them away in a cell with a TV  where the only thing on is Big Bang Theory and Two and a half men.

[Squiddy]

http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/hardened-criminals-held-in-freedom-doing-time-on-norway-s-island-prison-a-744851.html

Yeah, it is a beautiful place (managed to visit it.)

[Shadow Mod]

I say lock them away in a cell with a TV  where the only thing on is Big Bang Theory and Two and a half men.

Also they only get to interact with a robot that brings their meals, and it says the same cold robotic message every time, "your meal is ready."

[Kara]

Yeah, it is a beautiful place (managed to visit it.)

The thing to take from that story (imo) is that not everyone is ready to be rehabilitated all the time. Some people never are. Should we give up? No. Should we keep that in mind? Yes.

[nudemacusers]

I say lock them away in a cell with a TV  where the only thing on is Big Bang Theory and Two and a half men.

Grandma's house?

[Squiddy]

Yeah, it is a beautiful place (managed to visit it.)

The thing to take from that story (imo) is that not everyone is ready to be rehabilitated all the time. Some people never are. Should we give up? No. Should we keep that in mind? Yes.

Yeah, I know that not everyone who passes through their magical system comes out as a normal human being at the other end. That's not why they do it, they do it because they believe everyone - including criminals - should be treated humanely - and to treat someone humanely is to always leave open the possibility of reintegration into society.

It's probably not going to happen with Breivik, or a serial rapist, but it's still worth keeping it in mind as a potential outcome so that one may come to terms with it.

[headwalk]

what a boring page. makes me miss neofeg.

[benjipwns]

I'm not even trolling

That's why it works to rustle jimmies. Especially if you're just taking a slightly more hardline and uncompromising position for discussions sake.

I say lock them away in a cell with a TV  where the only thing on is Big Bang Theory and Two and a half men.

Wow, mods can we ban for something this barbaric being posted, I mean The Bore has to have a line.

[octopushover]

I'm a big believer in the intentions behind rehabilitation. People deserve second chances.

I'm not a big believer in the actual results, unfortunately.  Too much experience to the contrary.

Right.

I also think you can be a big believer in rehabilitation but stop short of accepting it for someone who directly killed 70+ people. Assuming that if you believe in rehabilitation for one person it automatically means you must believe in it for every person is juvenile.

[team filler]

this guy is amazing: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=128734664&postcount=2851

[ToxicAdam]

what exactly is gained by having someone raped, tortured, and killed when this happened to your own child? surely, loving someone who was raped, tortured, and then killed would make you want that to never happen to anyone again. Even to the person who did it. How are you better than them if you want them to experience the same exact thing your child went through?

We all only get one shot at life and then we cease for all eternity. The gift of life is just that. Even simple pleasures such as eating, cumming, laughing, sleeping are better than never experiencing them at all. Even pain, which is a subjective state of mind, is a gift.

So, if you take that away from someone (or many someones), you sacrifice your right to your own.

It's that simple. It's a warped viewpoint to protect the (pre-meditated) killer just because he is still around. That's not compassion.

[Himu]

this guy is amazing: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=128734664&postcount=2851

No, he's a fucking distinguished mentally-challenged fellow making light of other peoples struggles and self image by bringing up slavery in regards to a goddamn game about a witch who fights angels full of heaven and religious nods.

[Himu]

what exactly is gained by having someone raped, tortured, and killed when this happened to your own child? surely, loving someone who was raped, tortured, and then killed would make you want that to never happen to anyone again. Even to the person who did it. How are you better than them if you want them to experience the same exact thing your child went through?

We all only get one shot at life and then we cease for all eternity. The gift of life is just that. Even simple pleasures such as eating, cumming, laughing, sleeping are better than never experiencing them at all. Even pain, which is a subjective state of mind, is a gift.

So, if you take that away from someone (or many someones), you sacrifice your right to your own.

It's that simple. It's a warped viewpoint to protect the (pre-meditated) killer just because he is still around. That's not compassion.

That isn't barbaric at all. Let's just fill the streets with guillotines then.

[ToxicAdam]

How could I counter such a well thought-out response?

[team filler]

this guy is amazing: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=128734664&postcount=2851

No, he's a fucking distinguished mentally-challenged fellow making light of other peoples struggles and self image by bringing up slavery in regards to a goddamn game about a witch who fights angels full of heaven and religious nods.

like I said, amazing!

[Himu]

How could I counter such a well thought-out response?

You are the one that said that all people who have killed deserve to die in kind. What response were you expecting? How are public executions not on the same wavelength? If life is as sacred as you say, then killing someone - anyone - should be a place where people shouldn't go. You can't say,"life is beautiful and sacred" and at the  same turn say that people who have killed deserve to die. I can understand the emotion of wanting them to die, because they have made their bed. The problem I take issue with is the suggestion that they should.

[Eel O'Brian]

I got no problem with popping dudes like the kidkiller, or that piece who shot up that movie theater. Lots of witnesses, no reasonable doubt, no remorse whatsoever shown. Here's your shovel, dig a hole to these dimensions and stand at the end of it. You can dig it crying, you can dig it screaming and cursing, but you're gonna dig it, then you're going in it head first.

[Eel O'Brian]

I'm not trying to hide a faceneck or thinchin or anything. I'm lazy, I hate shaving, and my beard grows in a cool salt-and-pepper color nowadays. I let it grow, shave it off when I get tired of it, and let it grow back.

[zepblackstar]

That GamerGate thread is going pretty much as expected with the race to be the most outraged.

but the notion that a hashtag has some trolls in it makes it invalid seems like wishful thinking or really naive on how the internet works...

[Eel O'Brian]

Is that pumpkin pie? That shit is delicious.

[ToxicAdam]

How could I counter such a well thought-out response?

You are the one that said that all people who have killed deserve to die in kind. What response were you expecting? How are public executions not on the same wavelength? If life is as sacred as you say, then killing someone - anyone - should be a place where people shouldn't go. You can't say,"life is beautiful and sacred" and at the  same turn say that people who have killed deserve to die. I can understand the emotion of wanting them to die, because they have made their bed. The problem I take issue with is the suggestion that they should.

That's why it's hard to have a an actual discussion with you. I did not say " all people who have killed deserve to die". It was more nuanced than that. But you don't give a shit because your to busy tripping over yourself to make your hyperbolic points.

[Phoenix Dark]

i see some sorrowful shit in this thread smh

[Joe Molotov]

i see some sorrowful shit in this thread smh

Bunch of fatherless dudes itt.

[benjipwns]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=890264

[benjipwns]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=890258

 

[Joe Molotov]

I've prestiged 3 times in MK8

[nudemacusers]

i see some sorrowful shit in this thread smh

Bunch of fatherless dudes itt.

hey man I have a father




I just don't know him and have only seen a picture of him once

[Himu]

btw, not trying to be a dick here, i am legit curious: do male-to-female transsexuals still have to shave their beards? only reason i mention that is some women have to shave their mustaches and the like.

Electro

[Himu]

How could I counter such a well thought-out response?

You are the one that said that all people who have killed deserve to die in kind. What response were you expecting? How are public executions not on the same wavelength? If life is as sacred as you say, then killing someone - anyone - should be a place where people shouldn't go. You can't say,"life is beautiful and sacred" and at the  same turn say that people who have killed deserve to die. I can understand the emotion of wanting them to die, because they have made their bed. The problem I take issue with is the suggestion that they should.

That's why it's hard to have a an actual discussion with you. I did not say " all people who have killed deserve to die". It was more nuanced than that. But you don't give a shit because your to busy tripping over yourself to make your hyperbolic points.

Tell me what is nuanced about "it's a warped viewpoint to protect the (pre-meditated) killer just because he is still around. That's not compassion" exactly? Speaking of hyperbole, you're one to talk with that statement. Warped viewpoint?

[parallax]

lol thought i stumbled into gaf on accident.

come on guys. let's stand united against the COMMON EVIL, besada's DISGUSTING rat's nest of a beard

this is the lamest shit ive seen posted on this forum. and that includes eggman and squids posts.

[meeb]

Tbf his beard IS gross.

[ToxicAdam]

Tell me what is nuanced about "it's a warped viewpoint to protect the (pre-meditated) killer just because he is still around. That's not compassion" exactly? Speaking of hyperbole, you're one to talk with that statement. Warped viewpoint?

Because once someone plans to take the life of another (and follows through), they forfeit the value of thier own. 

By protecting those that commit such a heinous act, you devalue life itself.

[StealthFan]

That besada smiley Dude is gross. When you're gross you invite mockery. Just today I was mocked while grocery shopping. Got some milk, turned my head to the right and saw some pretty bitch staring right at me cackling with her friend that worked there. They ran off.

Don't want to be mocked, don't be a disgusting ass slob. And don't post pics of your gross ass on the internet. Besada is not someone that should be sharing his visage.

[Momo]

I shaved my beard like Tuesday I think, it started getting a bit dumb and I was wondering why on earth I was letting it grow, since I'm in fact not lazy and didnt want the extra attention it brings.

[Dennis]

I am not a fan of the nasty personal attacks going on here.

Good-natured ripping or honest criticism, fine.

But the mean-spirited shit about the way people look is a downer.

[nachobro]

Shaddup you rapey looking taco

[Dennis]

Your obsession with my good looks is long going and a little disturbing. But I shall take it as a compliment.

[nachobro]

As a New Mexican I find the sunken eyed meth look comforting I guess 

[Rufus]

Tell me what is nuanced about "it's a warped viewpoint to protect the (pre-meditated) killer just because he is still around. That's not compassion" exactly? Speaking of hyperbole, you're one to talk with that statement. Warped viewpoint?

Because once someone plans to take the life of another (and follows through), they forfeit the value of thier own. 

By protecting those that commit such a heinous act, you devalue life itself.

Premise, meet conclusion.

Let me be very lazy (because I will be regardless): If you advocate taking life, you devalue life itself.

[cosmicblizzard]

It's a subject that's always going to have a lot of passionate opinions.  Does everyone have a right to life, or only those that respect life?

I personally believe in redemption and rehabilitation, but to what extent, I don't know.  Maybe it's impossible for someone that killed 70 people.  Still, I'm not an advocate of capital punishment, but there are going to be scenarios where that belief is put to the test. 

So really, I just don't want to take a stance in this case.

[Kara]

hey man I have a father




I just don't know him and have only seen a picture of him once

It can be a lot worse.

[WanderingWind]

As a New Mexican I find the sunken eyed meth look comforting I guess 

*fistbump*

Put me in the camp that think some people simply don't deserve to live. Problem is proving, without a doubt, the shit they did and if it was caused by some drastic mental illness. The guy who operated a rape dungeon in his basement? The kid who killed a bunch of people because women wouldn't fuck him on command? The guy who lined up school kids and executed them? I'd have no trouble flipping that switch. But there are just too many gray areas, and I'd rather err on the side of locking up a guy who deserves to die for life, rather than kill one person who was really innocent or had some severe mental illness.

[Kara]

http://www.deakinphilosophicalsociety.com/texts/camus/reflections.pdf

[headwalk]

I am not a fan of the nasty personal attacks going on here.

Good-natured ripping or honest criticism, fine.

But the mean-spirited shit about the way people look is a downer.

this thread exists to purge what is otherwise worthless. it's the bucket we sit on after taking an internet enema.

[Squiddy]

Time to go argue for rehabilitation of ISIS fighters and try my best not to insult barbaric americans.

[StealthFan]

Militant towelheads can't be reformed. They will always be radical, they'll just wait until the opportunity to fight arises.

[ToxicAdam]

Let me be very lazy (because I will be regardless): If you advocate taking life, you devalue life itself.

Not if you are killing someone that has already forfeited their rights to their own. They broke the most basic societal law.

[Squiddy]

Let me be very lazy (because I will be regardless): If you advocate taking life, you devalue life itself.

Not if you are killing someone that has already forfeited their rights to their own. They broke the most basic societal law.

That's pretty arbitrary.
Not all societal laws are the same.

Of course you americatards could never hope to understand the glory of living in a scandinavian nation where there is no capital punishment. Your violent minds demand blood in the name of your war mongering faith.

[ToxicAdam]

Yes, murder is the most arbitrary of societal laws.  Brilliant insight.

[Momo]

kindly fuck off and go make a thread discussing rehabilitation, thanks! 

[CatsCatsCats]

Nawwwww if people are going to argue over killing folks, it can stay in this shit thread