Mike Brown shooting thread - No indictment! Get out and protest!

[Shadow Mod]

Wind summed up nicely my reservations about the military pointed at civilian protest. Not that it technically hasn't happened already but it would be nice if this civilian targeted aggression just fucked right off. It's been heightening tensions not keeping people "more safe." The night they were virtually invisible and state troopers were integrated with the community was the calmest one yet. They have learned nothing.

[WanderingWind]

That John Oliver video at around 10:20 sums up the military/cop shit nicely.

[benjipwns]

I can't imagine the modern National Guard doing anything to escalate the situation in something this small of scale. They're an excuse to stand down the police and save face for the politicos.

The National Guard has been deployed in the U.S. to quell "unrest" multiple times. One reason they were used after Hurricane Katrina was because the police department was making things worse and it allowed them to shuffle the incompetents out of the way.

[Shadow Mod]

I can't imagine the modern National Guard doing anything to escalate the situation in something this small of scale. They're an excuse to stand down the police and save face for the politicos.

The National Guard has been deployed in the U.S. to quell "unrest" multiple times. One reason they were used after Hurricane Katrina was because the police department was making things worse and it allowed them to shuffle the incompetents out of the way.

I could see this I guess I'm just pissed at the whole situation.

[benjipwns]

Well, yeah, nothing wrong with that. I'm just trying to explain why the incentives for the police and the National Guard are entirely different. The National Guard doesn't want to do any of this shit the police are doing and they have much more strict rules and consequences.

The police already had the ability to terrorize the population but no incentive to stop because the instant there's any kind of opportunistic looting they're going to be blasted for "abandoning their posts" and other dumb shit. And they've already proven they have no desire to admit fault or face consequences. But nobody wants to trample on their authority because of reasons.

Claiming that they need the National Guard is a loophole out of everything for everybody. Especially since there's no actual threat from the populace here, unlike the 1992 LA Riots.

[StealthFan]

fat man on a diet
don't try it
bust your ass
like a looter in a riot

[WanderingWind]

I can't imagine the modern National Guard doing anything to escalate the situation in something this small of scale. They're an excuse to stand down the police and save face for the politicos.

The National Guard has been deployed in the U.S. to quell "unrest" multiple times. One reason they were used after Hurricane Katrina was because the police department was making things worse and it allowed them to shuffle the incompetents out of the way.

Escalation isn't always about what they do, but what is seen as their purpose. The perception on the ground could be one of escalation, which can lead to actions based on that.

And we didn't see the governor, mayor and every elected official escalating the situation, either. The point is that the unease at using the military for domestic situations like this is not silly. Remember that it was the National Guard that gunned down protesters at Kent State. We'd like to think that we've learned since then, but in an area where police dogs are still being used on black people, I'm not so sure.

The point isn't that this is a sign that shit is going to mirror Kent State, but again, the unease is a very real thing that shouldn't be dismissed as nonsense.

[benjipwns]

I think the key difference with Kent State though is that was in the context of the draft which had a massive negative effect on discipline and training in every branch of the military.

The National Guard shot people during the LA Riots too but this isn't an actual riot or anything resembling that. I really can't imagine the National Guard responding like the police have to what is essentially nothing. (Which is a police specialty.)

[recursivelyenumerable]

announcement: at 4:30 am cst i am holding a press conference to announce that i have absolutely no clue whether the national guard will help or make things worse or neither.

[ZephyrFate]

"USMC cosplay?" I thought those Marine protesters were legit. :/

[WanderingWind]

"USMC cosplay?" I thought those Marine protesters were legit. :/

Probably a joke, but if not, I'm talking about the police rocking knock-off Marpat.

[ZephyrFate]

I was talking about literal Marines in uniform who were protesting against militarized police.

sooo im tired and referring to different people

[recursivelyenumerable]

ok finally going@st to sleep. hate u, stlcountypd and whoever else is fucking up stl.

[Boogie]

Wait, so "the militarization of police" is a self-evident "bad thing", but....deploying the ACTUAL military would be just fine?

Also, when it comes to crowd control, while everyone may be outraged at the use of tear gas, rubber bullets, and riot squads with hard hats, batons and shields, at least those are less-than-lethal use of force options.  The military does not (I would think) have that equipment or training on it.  The only thing some jumpy, nervous private has to respond with to any perceived threat or provocation is his rifle.

Now, if you believe that the National Guard will be better behaved to prevent any use of force being used from this point on , so be it, but it's just another angle to consider.

[benjipwns]

They have that equipment and receive all of that riot control training, the National Guard will probably not be equipped and deployed for infantry purposes. They're being used to let everyone else off the hook responsibility-wise, not to suppress an invisible insurrection. These are hardly even riots.

If they aren't used in this manner but instead to expand the curfew and related, then Obama does need to take control of them from Governor Nixon.

[Cerveza mas fina]

Having the military deployed in your own country in a city of 20k inhabitants without there being a natural disaster 

[Cerveza mas fina]

Amnesty International is sending people to Ferguson

[Boogie]

They have that equipment and receive all of that riot control training, the National Guard will probably not be equipped and deployed for infantry purposes

I see.  Another difference between America and Canada, none of our military or reserves train for that role. Interesting.

[benjipwns]

It's partly because of their historical roots as the militia, this also serves as the loophole to get around laws concerning the use of military in the States. Technically they are controlled by the Governor of the individual States, not the President ala the standard military. But they've basically become another form of the reserves as well.

In this case they're really being deployed because the Highway Patrol fucked up and broke their word about firing tear gas and stuff, and the Guard is all Nixon had left to save face and enforce his "state of emergency" curfew while not actually enforcing it. (The Guard is probably going to just stand around and sit in trucks while nothing happens, maybe they'll talk to a handful of people about what they're doing out, then "peace" will be declared by the Governor in a couple days and the press will write stories about how he stepped up in crisis.)

The military and associated branches get a lot of non-military but policing/emergency training simply because of how the U.S. military is used around the world.

[Madrun Badrun]

Wait, so "the militarization of police" is a self-evident "bad thing", but....deploying the ACTUAL military would be just fine?

I think the idea is that the actual military would be a neutral 3rd party, where the local police have a 'us vs them' attitude leading to their ineptitude in the situation.  I'm not sure if that's how it will work out though.

[Van Cruncheon]

announcement: at 4:30 am cst i am holding a press conference to announce that i have absolutely no clue whether the national guard will help or make things worse or neither.

THANKS OBAMA

[Joe Molotov]

announcement: at 4:30 am cst i am holding a press conference to announce that i have absolutely no clue whether the national guard will help or make things worse or neither.

THANKS OBAMA

Thanks, Obama.

or

THANKS OBAMA! 

Depending on whether the situation improves or not.

[benjipwns]

National Guard drives in:

[Brehvolution]

Sneaking in through the alley.

[Madrun Badrun]

I don't think you sneak in anywhere in a city when you are in a humvee.

[Great Rumbler]

I don't think you sneak in anywhere in a city full of media with cameras and people with camera phones.

.

[Madrun Badrun]

[benjipwns]

In addition, Brown had marijuana in his system when he was shot and killed by a police officer on Aug. 9 in Ferguson, according to this person, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the ongoing investigation.

BOOM

[Cerveza mas fina]

Oh shiiiiiiit dude smoked a J? Like 38% of americans have too.

What a thug

Anon source for this non news, so desperate

[Cerveza mas fina]

If they feel its up for debate, why do they say the "n word" but spell out cracker

Looks to me like they know the answer

[CatsCatsCats]

Marijuana prohibition and racism, working hand in hand for decades

[Human Snorenado]

In addition, Brown had marijuana in his system when he was shot and killed by a police officer on Aug. 9 in Ferguson, according to this person, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the ongoing investigation.

BOOM

Game really over now, pack it up. Sigh. This country is so fucking distinguished mentally-challenged.

[benjipwns]

I heard from somebody that he didn't cry on 9/11.

[Great Rumbler]

HE BOUGHT SOME CIGARILLOS EVEN THOUGH HE WAS ONLY 18
HE SMOKED SOME MARIJUANA
HE SANG SOME GANGSTER RAP SONGS

Obviously, he was nothing but a thug and his death was the inevitable conclusion of his unfortunate life choices.

[benjipwns]

HE BOUGHT SOME CIGARILLOS EVEN THOUGH HE WAS ONLY 18
HE SMOKED SOME MARIJUANA
HE SANG SOME GANGSTER RAP SONGS

Obviously, he was nothing but a thug and his death was the inevitable conclusion of his unfortunate life choices.

Yeah, it's just the way of life sometimes. There's nobody to blame but himself.

[Madrun Badrun]

HE BOUGHT SOME CIGARILLOS EVEN THOUGH HE WAS ONLY 18
HE SMOKED SOME MARIJUANA
HE SANG SOME GANGSTER RAP SONGS

Obviously, he was nothing but a thug, a.k.a. black youth, and his death or imprisonment was statistically significant possibility of his unfortunate life choices socio-economic status.

Remembering that 1/7 of black males are in prison, this can be said without any sarcasm. 

[Madrun Badrun]

How do you pronounce cac?

Is it like cack (first syllable of cackle), or cock?

cock

[benjipwns]

Remembering that 1/7 of black males are in prison, this can be said without any sarcasm.

I don't know, sounds like something genetic to me.

[Great Rumbler]

Video of the immediate aftermath of the shooting got released:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/video-cell-phone-michael-brown-shooting

[WanderingWind]

How do you pronounce cac?

Is it like cack (first syllable of cackle), or cock?

You say the whole word...like...this.

[Human Snorenado]

I think the cop realized immediately that he fucked up and killed the kid. That's why he didn't file an incident report, the body sat there for 4 hours, etc.

[brawndolicious]

He could have been in shock or something which is why you expect the superiors to make sure that everything is on record.

[Human Snorenado]

Apparently they figured out the curfews were a dumb idea

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/no-curfew-ferguson-monday

[Phoenix Dark]

:pdark

[Human Snorenado]

(Image removed from quote.)
:pdark

DEMI PLS

[benjipwns]

[Kara]

@TheRyanParker
MT @samueloakford: Amnesty International just announced they've sent human rights team to #Ferguson; first time they've done that in the US

This is a much bigger deal than Iran's supreme leader taking pot shots at the way this incident has been handled.

[Brehvolution]

Who are those 18% of blacks?

[benjipwns]

Who are those 18% of blacks? (Image removed from quote.)

[Phoenix Dark]

Interesting tight rope performance by Obama there, blatantly insinuating the criminal justice system isn't fair without outright saying it. If you're expecting him or any president to definitively state that the system is inherently racist you're going to be disappointing, but this is the second time I've seen Obama come close to saying it.

[Your Stalker]

Do they really have an f16 out there?

[brob]

Imagine if the president was a civil rights lawyer tho

[Madrun Badrun]

Imagine if the president was a civil rights lawyer tho

Too bad Bobby got shot

[Ganhyun]

Watch it get worse with the National Guard there now.

I don't understand why reporters and such are not making a bigger case out of this than they are. Reporters are being targeted and kept from accurately reporting whats going on, so you know its worse than people realize. Yet none of them really want to call the police on it it seems.

[Phoenix Dark]

Grand Jury in MO about to begin hearings to determine whether Wilson will be charged.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/grandy-jury-evidence-wednesday

[Madrun Badrun]

How do grand juries work, what kind of majority do they need?

[Madrun Badrun]

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/lawyer-county-refuses-pay-medical-bills-toddler-hu/ng3s9/

[brob]

shoutouts to the bore's wordfilter for making me associate cigarillo with homophobia instead of, you know, cigarillos...

[Kara]

How do grand juries work, what kind of majority do they need?

Grand juries decide whether or not there is probable cause for a case to go to trial. Unlike a trial (petit) jury, they don't meet on a case by case basis, but hear multiple cases in a sitting.

Also unlike a trial (petit) jury, there does not usually need to be unanimous consensus. A quick perusal of Missouri laws tells me that only 9 of the 12 jurors in a Missouri grand jury need to agree that there is probable cause for an indictment to proceed to trial.

[Human Snorenado]

RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE WAR

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/kkk-fundraising-ferguson-police-officer