It's 20XX and people are mad online about Star War!

[Cindi Mayweather]

I forgot I even saw the movie

Girl you've got like a thousands posts in this thread.

Like I said, only when I see this thread. I don't see how that's hard to comprehend. I forget the movie exists then I see this thread and I'm reminded of TLJ's existence.

[chronovore]

spoiler (click to show/hide)

[close]

[agrajag]

To those that didn't like Luke's characterization, how would you have liked the character handled (within the framework established by TFA)?

[Stoney Mason]

On a side note, I'm slowly making my way through the audiobook versions of these.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_The_Thrawn_Trilogy

I've never been remotely interested in Star Wars EU stuff but the annual release schedule of these star war films does make me more interested in Star Wars in general for about a month. Generally, I satiate that hunger by watching various prequel fan edit versions of the films like an insane person but this year decided to try something different instead. I guess, I'll post my thoughts on them as I finish each book.

Finished up the first of these Heir to the Empire.

It's an interesting exercise to read/listen to this stuff. Partially because I find myself doing a thought process of wondering if the material would work as a movie. My brain says no. That this book works effectively as a piece of EU content in book form, but probably wouldn't work as well as filmed material. I have specific reasons for thinking that but then again I wonder if I read a novelized version of New Hope without ever having seen a film version would I think, yeah that's a fun book but its hard to imagine that as a movie.

Either way, I think its a fun enough read. It's sort of fun to get into the thoughts of Star Wars characters which you really can't do in a movie. It fleshes them out in a way that a book can that a movie can't.

Thrawn himself seems like a good villain and less insane than the emperor or vader. Joruus C'baothn seems more in line with being a typical evil bad guy as seen in the movie.

All the additions are basically sort of the idea that this stuff was all around during the OG trilogy but never mentioned or focused on. Which is fine. Although I have a feeling if it was a movie nerds would nitpick the shit out of that. Not that it bothers me.

So it seems like good material for people who are already fans of Star Wars which is who its aimed it. Already started the next one. I basically listen to it at night in bed until I fall asleep.

[Stoney Mason]

To those that didn't like Luke's characterization, how would you have liked the character handled (within the framework established by TFA)?

From what I've seen it boils down to a few things that keep getting repeated from people who have that position.

1.) NO JOKES. Luke should be serious bizness
2.) Luke would never go so far as to pull out his blade on sleeping Kylo Ren.
3.) Luke would begrudgingly train Rey and/or go help her kill Snoke.
4.) Luke would have done some bad ass killing showing he is the most powerful jedi and then nobly get killed at the end instead of astral projecting himself and dying quietly by himself.

Note that none of this is necessarily my opinion. Just what I see get posted by people who have this position in every single thread on every forum that isn't this one.
 

[agrajag]

To those that didn't like Luke's characterization, how would you have liked the character handled (within the framework established by TFA)?

From what I've seen it boils down to a few things that keep getting repeated from people who have that position.

1.) NO JOKES. Luke should be serious bizness
2.) Luke would never go so far as to pull out his blade on sleeping Kylo Ren.
3.) Luke would begrudgingly train Rey and/or go help her kill Snoke.
4.) Luke would have done some bad ass killing showing he is the most powerful jedi and then nobly get killed at the end instead of astral projecting himself and dying quietly by himself.

Note that none of this is necessarily my opinion. Just what I see get posted by people who have this position in every single thread on every forum that isn't this one.

Well thanks for answering. I know those aren't your opinions, but nunber 4 is silly fan service wish fulfilment stuff that is similar to yoda doing kung fu flips in the prequels, and 2 was something I very much enjoyed about the film. I mean, to be apalled at the notion is to believe that Luke is some infallible hero. But the backstory hinted at in TFA already presupposes that Luke failed.

[Stoney Mason]

Personally I was fine with nearly all the luke stuff.

I thought the astral projection thing was a little odd. But that's mainly because I wasn't a huge fan in general of them being trapped in a cave and moving some rocks at the end of the movie to get out of it. Him buying time essentially yanking their chain isn't the most thrilling thing in the world to me.

But in the context of if that's the plotline you are doing no matter what then the force projection thing in that context works fine.

I think him not really training Rey is one of those cases of good subversion of expectations. I'm not saying it would have been bad if they had done it but its one of those things that's so expected that I found it to be welcome and kept me on my toes.

[I'm a Puppy!]

It's obvious that Cindi doesn't care about the movie,  I mean with several 100% more posts about tlj than most people have made in this entire thread I mean, how could it not be obvious?!

[Momo]

The astral projection stuff was used by Yoga flame in the clone wars already so it's old canon, iirc using hyperdrive jump as a weapon is too and the bit with the rocks and the animals leading them through a cave is lifted directly off the last 2 part episode of Rebels.

Speaking of people's expectations, I think they generally wanted this for Rey and Luke (i cant give a fuck)

[chronovore]

Somehow, the first time I saw that REBELS scene, I missed out on how it's a dad and son playing baseball in the front yard, in addition to being Jedi training.

[Stoney Mason]

The astral projection stuff was used by Yoga flame in the clone wars already so it's old canon, iirc using hyperdrive jump as a weapon is too and the bit with the rocks and the animals leading them through a cave is lifted directly off the last 2 part episode of Rebels.

My issue with the astral projection wasn't canon. I don't really care about canon in that way. It was more that it was just kind of meh to me after the initial interesting surprise wore off. I was just kind of like that is what saved them? Really?

They can't catch up to them with all those vehicles or fly over the mountain to the other side?

[agrajag]

I thought the astral projection thing was cool, but kind of a gimmick. But then again, Luke showing up in person and having this grand stand off with Kylo would have been even dumber.

[Momo]

The Empire (or whatever they were called) were written as complete idiots for whatever reason, that broke a lot of the film because every 5 mins i was sitting there going 'why dont they just x'.

[Momo]

The astral projection stuff was used by Yoga flame in the clone wars already so it's old canon, iirc using hyperdrive jump as a weapon is too and the bit with the rocks and the animals leading them through a cave is lifted directly off the last 2 part episode of Rebels.

My issue with the astral projection wasn't canon. I don't really care about canon in that way. It was more that it was just kind of meh to me after the initial interesting surprise wore off. I was just kind of like that is what saved them? Really?

They can't catch up to them with all those vehicles or fly over the mountain to the other side?

The Empire (or whatever they were called) were written as complete idiots for whatever reason, that broke a lot of the film because every 5 mins i was sitting there going 'why dont they just x'.

[agrajag]

So is the resistance tbh. Why didn't the admiral lady just tell a droid to ram the ship into the new order ship, why did she have to die

[Momo]

Because Rian Johnson thinks all of you Star Wars fans are morons and he treated you so lol

[agrajag]

 

[I'm a Puppy!]

Because Rian Johnson thinks all of you Star Wars fans are morons and he treated you so lol

Was he wrong?

[agrajag]

Because Rian Johnson thinks all of you Star Wars fans are morons and he treated you so lol

Was he wrong?

all I know for sure is that Cindi don't curr about this movie

[Mandark]

They can't catch up to them with all those vehicles or fly over the mountain to the other side?

Don't start thinking like that, or you'll start wondering why they landed on the planet and basically used siege engines rather than aerial bombardment.

[Momo]

The issue for me is I'm a film fan first and not even close to what you would describe as a star wars fan, so those kinda things stood out for me, instead of being hidden behind a flashing light show of light sabers, red salt, marvel jokes and Luke Skywalker, yes I can turn my brain off and enjoy action adventures, this just wasnt getting anywhere close to motivating me to do so. Pretty effects in places though, will give it that.

[chronovore]

OMG, just dawned on me that the entire battleground on Crait was fought on the symbolic salt of fanboy tears.

They can't catch up to them with all those vehicles or fly over the mountain to the other side?

Don't start thinking like that, or you'll start wondering why they landed on the planet and basically used siege engines rather than aerial bombardment.

There's a throwaway line in there that specifically talks about it, but I can't recall offhand what it was.

[Momo]

I don't think Rian Johnson was at all subtle with his disdain for Star Wars fans

[Kara]

I know that the steady stream of uncritical puff pieces about actually existing American fascists lately in U.S. papers of record like the New York Times may have lead people to believe that fascists are wily geniuses who operate 8 steps ahead of everyone else, but the Nazis invaded the Soviet Union in the middle of the summer with an army that was only 20% mechanized at its very peak.

If the terminal stupidity of the First Order broke your suspension of disbelief in another entry of a long running space opera series you could probably stand to read more about how terminally stupid actually existing fascists were and are.

e: If you think this is out of left field, the First Order is very unsubtly based on ODESSA.

[benjipwns]

The Bee Gee's album?

[Great Rumbler]

There's a throwaway line in there that specifically talks about it, but I can't recall offhand what it was.

When they're getting out all the old equipment there's a line about how they've got the base's shields raised. It's pretty much the same as in the Battle of Hoth in Empire, the base was shielded against aerial bombardment, but ground units weren't effected by it [for whatever reason].

[Stro]

I can't remember if I've seen this or not, but I'm sure I didn't like it, although I loved a lot of it, not that I can remember since I don't give a shit about this movie in any way.

[TVC15]

Can we get a Cindi post count for this thread?

[chronovore]

Did Last Jedi leak yet?

A friend was downloading it on day two, so it's been out for a bit.

[TVC15]

Don’t waste your time. Watch something good like Czech Xtreme #02 Play Fisty for Me.

[chronovore]

Did Last Jedi leak yet?

A friend was downloading it on day two, so it's been out for a bit.

Not talking about cams, breh.

Ah. Does that even happen? Movies getting leaked before their source is available to consumers?

[toku]

[zomgee]

There are potentially hundreds of those.

[CatsCatsCats]

Sometimes. Mostly during screener season. But TFA and now TLJ somehow averted this.

Sometimes a studio puts out an R5 early that gets put up real quick, too

[Tasty]

https://io9.gizmodo.com/report-heres-what-lukes-third-lesson-to-rey-in-the-las-1821467308

Ah finally an explanation of that teaser scene I wanted to see. Neat. Hope to see it on the BR.

[chronovore]

https://io9.gizmodo.com/report-heres-what-lukes-third-lesson-to-rey-in-the-las-1821467308

Ah finally an explanation of that teaser scene I wanted to see. Neat. Hope to see it on the BR.

Oh, man, I hope they include a whole bunch. That scene sounds good. I also like the parallel between Luke on Dagobah being warned not to go, and Rey doing the same thing on Ach-To or whatsit.

[Great Rumbler]

It sounds like there were a number of cut scenes that were actually pretty good, but they just didn't have any space for them with everything else that the movie did.

[chronovore]

It sounds like there were a number of cut scenes that were actually pretty good, but they just didn't have any space for them with everything else that the movie did.

Deleted scenes from the Prequels were a lot less well organized:
https://imgur.com/gallery/SNXeF

[etiolate]

That sounds like a useful scene. Someone is going to make a fan cut with the Rose storyline removed and the deleted scenes put back in.

[benjipwns]

[zomgee]

What an odd channel.

[ToxicAdam]

Death Star engineers: smart enough to design the ultimate space weapon, but not smart enough to correct design flaws/security measures once they knew the plans were stolen.

Maybe the problem was still in committee.

[Tasty]

To be fair that sorta describes the state of computer security today.

Who knows about how many backdoors and zero days the NSA are hoarding.

[Great Rumbler]

Death Star engineers: smart enough to design the ultimate space weapon, but not smart enough to correct design flaws/security measures once they knew the plans were stolen.

Maybe the problem was still in committee.

The time frame from the theft of the plans to the assault on Yavin IV was only a few days, and I think everyone on the Imperial side who knew there was a fatal flaw ended up getting killed.

[toku]

https://twitter.com/ChariotDaGawd/status/953777950842814470

[Boredfrom]

Because Rian Johnson thinks all of you Star Wars fans are morons and he treated you so lol

Was he wrong?

Well, he considers a big SW fan that is discussing in the playground and using EU books to justify plot holes.

[chronovore]

Death Star engineers: smart enough to design the ultimate space weapon, but not smart enough to correct design flaws/security measures once they knew the plans were stolen.

Maybe the problem was still in committee.

The time frame from the theft of the plans to the assault on Yavin IV was only a few days, and I think everyone on the Imperial side who knew there was a fatal flaw ended up getting killed.

It's like two days or something, from A New Hope's start to its finish. Unless the Sandcrawler takes a heap of time from picking up the droids to arriving at Owen's place. Anywho, it's brisk.

In ROGUE ONE, it's eventually clear that Scarif has a security problem, and once Krennic arrives it's known that data has been sent from the Imperial base, but it's not inherently clear if the Imperials know what data was stolen.

Even if they /do/ find that it's the Death Star's plans, it's possible that the Imperials want to show it to any planets that are wavering on aligning with the Rebels, pushing them to join.

Imperials are so overconfident with their new toy, it's likely they don't suspect that there is a flaw. I mean, Krennic does, but Erso was "his hire," so he's not going to advertise that with Tarkin trying to push his shit in all the time.

[Mr. Gundam]

The hardcore fanbase that seems to comprise fandom nowadays is the worse I've ever seen it. They've gone from I like this thing and hope it turns out well to, I have one very specific vision of this thing and if its not exactly like how I want it, then its complete shit and I'm never going to shut up about it.

It's not just Star Wars. It's just about everything.

There was always this side to fandom. But it feels increasingly tiresome nowadays. Or maybe I just increasingly find it tiresome to engage.

I was a pretty hardcore Star Wars fan in the 90s, but I don't remember it being like this.

I've got lots of stuff that I really like, but I stay away from fandom. It's just too much.

[chronovore]

The hardcore fanbase that seems to comprise fandom nowadays is the worse I've ever seen it. They've gone from I like this thing and hope it turns out well to, I have one very specific vision of this thing and if its not exactly like how I want it, then its complete shit and I'm never going to shut up about it.

It's not just Star Wars. It's just about everything.

There was always this side to fandom. But it feels increasingly tiresome nowadays. Or maybe I just increasingly find it tiresome to engage.

I was a pretty hardcore Star Wars fan in the 90s, but I don't remember it being like this.

I've got lots of stuff that I really like, but I stay away from fandom. It's just too much.

It's obsessive behavior.

I remember being so excited as a young nerd whenever I found people who liked the same stuff I did. Now it's so easy to connect with people on the internet, find people with those same interests… 

…actually, let's change that to "opinions." We can find people who share the same opinions, so it is a short step from THAT to thinking, "We are all CORRECT" instead of "We all share the same OPINION."

[hungrynoob]

You can call it whatever you want but i will always curse bungie and microsoft to damnation for murdering the fuck out of Halo.

[etiolate]

Nerds always had opinions and ideas. You can just read all of them now thanks to social media.

Also, as I stated earlier in here (I think), the longer a fictional world exists, the more information flows into it and the closer it gets to having rules.

On the flip side, if you create a brand new fictional world then you can set up nearly every idea you have into it because it's a blank state with less rules established. The problem is that we have too many people trying to crawl into established works created by others to put in their own ideas that care less/don't understand the rules and connection of that fictional world.

Stop jumping on old works and create your own thing. I do not appreciate all this hijacked fiction that tends to bubble out of the fanfic world.

[Stoney Mason]

The hardcore fanbase that seems to comprise fandom nowadays is the worse I've ever seen it. They've gone from I like this thing and hope it turns out well to, I have one very specific vision of this thing and if its not exactly like how I want it, then its complete shit and I'm never going to shut up about it.

It's not just Star Wars. It's just about everything.

There was always this side to fandom. But it feels increasingly tiresome nowadays. Or maybe I just increasingly find it tiresome to engage.

I was a pretty hardcore Star Wars fan in the 90s, but I don't remember it being like this.

I've got lots of stuff that I really like, but I stay away from fandom. It's just too much.

It's obsessive behavior.

I remember being so excited as a young nerd whenever I found people who liked the same stuff I did. Now it's so easy to connect with people on the internet, find people with those same interests…

…actually, let's change that to "opinions." We can find people who share the same opinions, so it is a short step from THAT to thinking, "We are all CORRECT" instead of "We all share the same OPINION."

Pre-internet world it was slightly harder for fandoms to groupthink around things and sort of codify a solid wall of opinion. I remember when you use to meet nerds in the past and share opinions on things, it was a surprise and interesting experience to get their take. They liked some things I hated and hated some things I really liked.

Post internet and especially in our modern social medium age fandom groupthink is established almost immediately. Within a week of something happening there is a default opinion fandom has settled on. This will occasionally change if some important nerd or media figure weighs in and is able to form a strong argument to shift opinion down the road but generally speaking opinions feel much more monolithic in a much shorter amount of time than they ever have in the past.

This isn't just contained to nerdom circles.

[VomKriege]

Yeah though the pretense of being "underground" always sounded overblown, it used to be that the social spots were much more local and you didn't exactly had the choice of what crowd you mingled with. "Nerd" or "Geek" forums tend to fall under the banner of the lowest common denominator, and whoever appointed himself the savvy [insert your most hated billion dollar franchise] academic  may seem to tower discussion when really quite a few of the people are only there for animu loli games / nunsploitation / nigerian films / straight edge nu doom / crime novels.

Turns out that in internet discussion market of ideas it goes as with all other markets : monopolies are bad.

[Mr. Gundam]

The hardcore fanbase that seems to comprise fandom nowadays is the worse I've ever seen it. They've gone from I like this thing and hope it turns out well to, I have one very specific vision of this thing and if its not exactly like how I want it, then its complete shit and I'm never going to shut up about it.

It's not just Star Wars. It's just about everything.

There was always this side to fandom. But it feels increasingly tiresome nowadays. Or maybe I just increasingly find it tiresome to engage.

I was a pretty hardcore Star Wars fan in the 90s, but I don't remember it being like this.

I've got lots of stuff that I really like, but I stay away from fandom. It's just too much.

It's obsessive behavior.

I remember being so excited as a young nerd whenever I found people who liked the same stuff I did. Now it's so easy to connect with people on the internet, find people with those same interests…

…actually, let's change that to "opinions." We can find people who share the same opinions, so it is a short step from THAT to thinking, "We are all CORRECT" instead of "We all share the same OPINION."

I was all over Usenet in the early 90s (and not just Star Wars, I was on alt.music.smash-pumpkins and a bunch of video game related groups as well) and then moved on to TheForce.net around the time the Special Editions came out. I'm sure it was there but I still don't remember things being like they are now. Guess I'm just getting old.

[chronovore]

 

[Rufus]

Alternatively, make more of it.

[Tasty]

https://twitter.com/rachlikesbands/status/955869025778765826

[Tasty]

https://twitter.com/rachlikesbands/status/956712177305518080

https://twitter.com/DNMERON/status/956996853119188993

https://twitter.com/rachlikesbands/status/957034191383945217

https://twitter.com/rachlikesbands/status/957043324820623360

Last two are particularly well done.

[Tasty]

[chronovore]

Reading Chuck Wendig's "AFTERMATH" book 1 — I can see why it's divisive. I have trouble understanding who's saying what, and where they are, and when it is in the timeline. I've also got a 38ºc fever, but a fucking Star Wars book should not be hard to understand.