Author Topic: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age (2017, PS4 Remaster)  (Read 15952 times)

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bluemax

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Re: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age (2017, PS4 Remaster)
« Reply #120 on: July 24, 2017, 10:59:19 PM »
The Leading Man disagrees.
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thisismyusername

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Re: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age (2017, PS4 Remaster)
« Reply #121 on: July 24, 2017, 11:14:39 PM »
Party should basically be:

Balither, Basch, Ashe. Fran now and then but she's so minor to the story she probably could be axed.

That's it. The three that matter.

Himu

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Re: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age (2017, PS4 Remaster)
« Reply #122 on: July 24, 2017, 11:16:05 PM »
Vaan has the highest strength in the game. Team is Vaan, Balthier, and QUEEN ASHE
IYKYK

Positive Touch

  • Woo Papa
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Re: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age (2017, PS4 Remaster)
« Reply #123 on: July 24, 2017, 11:28:43 PM »
team is all six of them so you can tag people in when you're underpowered party can't finish off the mark
pcp

Himu

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Re: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age (2017, PS4 Remaster)
« Reply #124 on: July 25, 2017, 12:08:21 AM »
The job system will finally make all characters useful!
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Himu

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Re: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age (2017, PS4 Remaster)
« Reply #125 on: July 25, 2017, 12:28:41 AM »
Game came out 11 years ago who cares about Vaan and penelo at this point
IYKYK

Himu

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Re: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age (2017, PS4 Remaster)
« Reply #126 on: July 25, 2017, 01:01:43 AM »
TBH let's be real. The entire story is wasted potential.

I love, love, love the intro. The introduction of the royal family, Reks and the introduction to Basch, Vaan and Penelo. What we have here is the story of a people who have been stepped on and treated like dirt. The pathos the game builds for Vaan and Penelo is very, very good. stepping on the flowers, huddled into low town, penelo as a mother figure to the kids, all of the orphans. The game sets this all up so that by the time it's time to crash the fete, you're all in. Fuck the Empire. It takes Vaan as a central character who has lost EVERYTHING and then does nothing with it. There's potential for a class based story here. A struggle between Vaan and Ashe looking for revenge and how Ashe potentially cares more about revenge than her people. Matsuno traditionally does very well with class based stories, as seen in FFT and TO. Orphans are a big part of his storytelling and while FFT merely flirts with class it kind of pushes it to the side after chapter 1. We could have had a more dramatic story, pushing for more tension between Vaan and Basch Suikoden III Hugo vs Chris style. But nope. Vaan forgives and believes Basch far too quickly for it to be believable. That's left alone. There's a lot of potential that the game starts with that is completely left on the table. The world building and story telling in the beginning, all the way up to the prison escape when Basch joins as a guest is perfection. The story falls off the rails from there.

You could say that Basch could be the main character but even Basch kind of sucks and isn't that interesting. What makes Basch interesting is Gabranth. Anything Basch does of note is almost all related to Gabranth or Ashe. Because Basch doesn't subsist on his own as a character. Even his potential is stifled.

The only original plot line that has actual merit for the main cast is that of Ashe and her struggle for revenge. That is the main story of note in the game for our cast and it never reaches its full potential.

There could have been a case for it to be an FFVI styled game where there is no main character and they all have legitimate stakes in the pot. But even that fails.

Basically, everything in the game related to the story that are not the villains or the world building itself sucks. Ashe and Balther are the only main characters to make a big splash or do anything noteworthy. Fran is just there, Vaan, Basch, and Penelo are wasted. There's barely any character interaction at all. The entire scenario is wasted potential, Vaan or not.

The saddest part of FFXII's story is that the idea of Vaan isn't even bad. The intro is still fantastic to this day. The set up is perfect. But right when the game gives you a reason to care it just fucks off.

Is there any good thing to read about this game's troubled development? Like a good post-mortem or something?

I can find it if I search but basically, FFXII entered development in 2000. It took six years to develop. Jesus Christ.

The fact that FFXII was written by the same dude who wrote Tactics Ogre and that the game came out after FFX, which IMO has the best FF cast, is so, so damning.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2017, 01:09:04 AM by Queen of Ice »
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Himu

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Re: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age (2017, PS4 Remaster)
« Reply #127 on: July 25, 2017, 01:06:49 AM »
But I've made my peace with FFXII's story a long, long time ago. Who cares when it has that sweet, sweet gameplay at this point? I have no idea why this games writers bit more than they could chew. An utter what the fuck of a game that, as great as it is, started FF's downward trajectory of fucked uo development problems. I fully expect FFXVI to carry on XII-XV's legacy of having fucked up development. Jesus.
IYKYK

Himu

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Re: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age (2017, PS4 Remaster)
« Reply #128 on: July 25, 2017, 01:13:09 AM »
And now we have Nomura fucking off with FFVII remake when all anyone with a hint of taste wanted was a fucking REmake style remake with pre rendered backgrounds in HD and a remix of the game and shit. Fucking Nomura should be fired. But nah. Gotta be "ambitious" for a fucking remake. For a "new generation". With real time combat. This fucking company, man.
IYKYK

Bulleta©™®

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Re: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age (2017, PS4 Remaster)
« Reply #129 on: July 25, 2017, 06:21:28 AM »
lol no

You shut the fuck up right now. Penelo is the main character. It says so in my walkthrough. I used only in-game facts for it.

Positive Touch

  • Woo Papa
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Re: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age (2017, PS4 Remaster)
« Reply #130 on: July 25, 2017, 07:27:08 AM »
I fully expect one new mainline FF per gen JRPG wise, with an MMO in between. Wouldn't be surprised if XVI ends up an MMO.

ain't no way they're putting out a new mmo when ffxiv is still increasing in popularity. at the same time I'd be really surprised if ff16 has entered even the planning stages, so by the time it comes out the company might be ready for a new ff mmo lol.
pcp

thisismyusername

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Re: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age (2017, PS4 Remaster)
« Reply #131 on: July 25, 2017, 10:49:26 AM »
I fully expect one new mainline FF per gen JRPG wise, with an MMO in between. Wouldn't be surprised if XVI ends up an MMO.

There is no way in hell Square is gonna do another MMO. Especially not after the rework for 14. You're going to get another MMO in 2025 at the latest.

Himu

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Re: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age (2017, PS4 Remaster)
« Reply #132 on: July 25, 2017, 10:59:52 AM »
Polygon did this.

https://www.polygon.com/features/2017/7/5/15916862/the-making-of-final-fantasy-12

Given their in-depth take on the making of FFVII and SFII (which are amazing), it's a good read and has more details than the wiki entry.
IYKYK

Joe Molotov

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Re: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age (2017, PS4 Remaster)
« Reply #133 on: July 25, 2017, 11:31:11 AM »
©@©™

Himu

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Re: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age (2017, PS4 Remaster)
« Reply #134 on: July 25, 2017, 02:23:23 PM »
best place to grind lp in early game is the skeletons in the mines in bhujerba
IYKYK

Positive Touch

  • Woo Papa
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Re: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age (2017, PS4 Remaster)
« Reply #135 on: July 25, 2017, 02:54:39 PM »
why would you grind? you're supposed to beat every mark by the skin of your teeth
pcp

Himu

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Re: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age (2017, PS4 Remaster)
« Reply #136 on: July 25, 2017, 03:10:46 PM »
In FFXII levels don't mean shit. It's all about equipment.
IYKYK

Bulleta©™®

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Re: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age (2017, PS4 Remaster)
« Reply #137 on: July 25, 2017, 07:54:14 PM »
Levels can help, but yeah, weak mode, et al. However, levels do seem to affect the success rate of those 'stat break' abilities jobs like the Foebreaker get. I think I got it to work once on a level 3 character in weak mode, so in that, it seems like those abilities are more or less totally useless. At least in the PS2 version on weak mode.

Bulleta©™®

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Re: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age (2017, PS4 Remaster)
« Reply #138 on: July 27, 2017, 08:47:10 PM »
It seemed like it wasn't going to work, but I got the Danjuro F / MINA the same way as in the international version. Apparently they changed all the FF weapons to the months in the Hindu calendar, but they all seem like similar-looking (and unpronounceable in some cases) words.  I won't remember what hardly any of them are called in this.


Himu

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Re: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age (2017, PS4 Remaster)
« Reply #139 on: July 27, 2017, 11:33:11 PM »
:rejoice CHAINS :rejoice
IYKYK

Joe Molotov

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Re: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age (2017, PS4 Remaster)
« Reply #140 on: July 29, 2017, 10:27:44 PM »
Turns out FFXII HD is actually shit.

http://kotaku.com/final-fantasy-xii-the-zodiac-ages-remastered-look-come-1797369257

Quote
Reviewing one of the early impressionist exhibitions in France in the spring of 1874, the art critic Jules-Antoine Castagnary described what unified the artists who participated as a “determination not to aim for perfection, but to be satisfied with a certain general aspect.”

 :snob
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Positive Touch

  • Woo Papa
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Re: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age (2017, PS4 Remaster)
« Reply #141 on: July 29, 2017, 10:38:05 PM »
(this argument is also trash when people try to make it against the low-budget remakes of ff5 and 6)
pcp

Rufus

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Re: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age (2017, PS4 Remaster)
« Reply #142 on: July 29, 2017, 11:36:04 PM »
Yang's original blog post is less pretentious with much clearer examples. The touched up textures do look like a bad texture mod, yes, but I can't help but roll my eyes at Gach's write-up. "Blurry impressionism" is in the same tier of sentimental wank as "vinyl warmth." :yuck

Quote
What it lacks in sharpness, however, it makes up for with depth. The carpets towards the back of the shop are dark and faded. Individual textures are weaved together by shared volumes—dark floors and wooden counters contrasting with the warm lights hanging from above.
Resolution an colour saturation are different, but what he describes as lacking in the remaster is all still there. Bleh.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2017, 11:50:28 PM by Rufus »

Positive Touch

  • Woo Papa
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Re: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age (2017, PS4 Remaster)
« Reply #143 on: July 29, 2017, 11:55:12 PM »
eh the original article sounds full of shit too. the directors already said years ago that the original textures were made at a higher resolution than what was used in the ps2 release, so these hd textures are either the originals or based on them. that alone destroys the guys argument, but you'd also have to out off your mind to say the ps2 release looks better than the ps4 version. i think the remaster could have done some stuff better, like maybe some more depth of field effects and less motion blur, but it clearly looks better than the low-res mess that frustratingly hid the artists details on ps2.
pcp

Himu

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Re: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age (2017, PS4 Remaster)
« Reply #144 on: July 30, 2017, 01:00:50 AM »
(this argument is also trash when people try to make it against the low-budget remakes of ff5 and 6)

No they look like shit. We just have eyes.
IYKYK

Rufus

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Re: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age (2017, PS4 Remaster)
« Reply #145 on: July 30, 2017, 10:28:50 AM »
eh the original article sounds full of shit too. the directors already said years ago that the original textures were made at a higher resolution than what was used in the ps2 release, so these hd textures are either the originals or based on them. that alone destroys the guys argument,
It's likely as Yang describes: upscaled, desaturated, sharpened, etc. and it shows. It's the easiest way to add 'HD detail' to a large amount of textures without actually redrawing them, but it gives them this fuzzy, pock-marked look where minor blemishes turn into deep furrows:


Simple upscale through PCSX2 (all the original detail, only more discernible)


Remaster (all the original detail, but turned to 11)


Quote
but you'd also have to out off your mind to say the ps2 release looks better than the ps4 version.
Or just have a different perspective on it. In Yang's case, appreciation for Square's clever use of very limited technology. He's being a little dramatic about it, but I can see why the changes would draw his eye. I'd notice it too, having spent some time on Nexusmods for a variety of games.

It's an understandable choice in either case, but yeah, kinda ugly on close inspection.

Himu

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Re: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age (2017, PS4 Remaster)
« Reply #146 on: July 30, 2017, 04:31:36 PM »
:yeshrug

What the fuck is he expecting?
IYKYK

Rufus

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Re: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age (2017, PS4 Remaster)
« Reply #147 on: July 30, 2017, 05:08:59 PM »
He'd prefer a straight upscale, obviously.

Bulleta©™®

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Re: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age (2017, PS4 Remaster)
« Reply #148 on: July 30, 2017, 08:08:59 PM »
I thought it looked good, except if a character is really close to the camera they get blurry, which sucks because I can't make a new Penelo steam avatar that way.

bluemax

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Re: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age (2017, PS4 Remaster)
« Reply #149 on: July 31, 2017, 11:16:25 PM »
Playing through this for the first time in English has made me realize how much I rushed through it in Japanese and how much content this game has that I had no idea about. So many secret quests and dungeons that I never touched.
NO

bork

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Re: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age (2017, PS4 Remaster)
« Reply #150 on: August 03, 2017, 09:12:49 AM »


So were they joking, or is Vaan shit in this game and shouldn't be in your party?
ど助平

Himu

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Re: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age (2017, PS4 Remaster)
« Reply #151 on: August 03, 2017, 09:52:43 AM »
They're wrong. Vaan has the highest possible damage dealing
IYKYK

Positive Touch

  • Woo Papa
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Re: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age (2017, PS4 Remaster)
« Reply #152 on: August 03, 2017, 12:33:12 PM »
i made Vaan a thief in my party and so far he's a fucking beast, better than just about everyone. keep in mind I'm under level 20 still, but damn. there are no bad characters anyway fyi.
pcp

Joe Molotov

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Re: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age (2017, PS4 Remaster)
« Reply #153 on: August 03, 2017, 01:52:03 PM »
He's not a bad party member, he's a shit character. Let the adults eat, fam.
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Bulleta©™®

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Re: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age (2017, PS4 Remaster)
« Reply #154 on: August 03, 2017, 10:27:58 PM »
My guide doesn't have all the sidequests and stuff. Just the important ones to actually get good things. But there's probably way better ones up there that do have all that stuff.

bluemax

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Re: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age (2017, PS4 Remaster)
« Reply #155 on: August 03, 2017, 11:39:39 PM »
My guide doesn't have all the sidequests and stuff. Just the important ones to actually get good things. But there's probably way better ones up there that do have all that stuff.

Yeah your guide I don't think covers what goes into unlocking the boss in the Necrohol (although it had some steps, maybe I haven't looked in a few days) but this one FF Wiki I was looking at had all the steps.

The one thing about your guide, is that it feels almost overwhelming at time with all the info about getting the best loots and chests. But I appreciate that the information is there.
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Bulleta©™®

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Re: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age (2017, PS4 Remaster)
« Reply #156 on: August 04, 2017, 01:49:37 AM »
It has how to get to Chaos.

Bulleta©™®

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Re: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age (2017, PS4 Remaster)
« Reply #157 on: August 04, 2017, 03:47:27 AM »
Here's your spear, Icy. It's not as good as other weapons anymore.




Himu

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Re: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age (2017, PS4 Remaster)
« Reply #158 on: August 04, 2017, 03:48:52 AM »
Miss Bunk. Let him know I said hi.
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Bulleta©™®

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Re: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age (2017, PS4 Remaster)
« Reply #159 on: August 04, 2017, 04:56:39 AM »
Well you could come in and say hi sometime, too.

OK, the new happy song in the Subterra is boring. Anyone got an original soundtrack code still?

Nevermind, I chose it and it did go to original..I didn't need a code?
« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 05:15:14 AM by Bulleta©™® »

Rahxephon91

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Re: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age (2017, PS4 Remaster)
« Reply #160 on: August 04, 2017, 08:54:27 AM »
Kind of dislike that this version made getting skills more tedious, but whatever I still demolished the main game.

Bulleta©™®

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Re: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age (2017, PS4 Remaster)
« Reply #161 on: August 04, 2017, 07:53:01 PM »
With the changes to some, that's probably why.

bluemax

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Re: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age (2017, PS4 Remaster)
« Reply #162 on: August 07, 2017, 11:45:26 PM »
It has how to get to Chaos.

I stand corrected!

With the changes to some, that's probably why.

What skills are good? Or what are some good gambits for skills? I mostly only use steal and poach.
NO

Bulleta©™®

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Re: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age (2017, PS4 Remaster)
« Reply #163 on: August 09, 2017, 05:01:45 AM »
The 'break' skills that lower enemy attack/magic/phys defense/mag defense work on everything now, so you get them very late (the attack and magic ones at least).

I don't use most skills, seems pointless.