US Politics Thread |OT| SAD TRUMP

[warcock]

wake me up when a Bernie fan can explain how he would have won under "fair" circumstances while completely writing off the fucking south. He lost, the end. Was Hillary playing more home games than Bernie? I guess. Still lost and it wasn't fucking close.

Im not sure anyone is arguing the outcome. Some underhanded shit went on and im not sure how the fact that she didnt win the general and that bernie would of never won either(the primary or general) absolves them from pulling this kind of shit. It sucks and it's even made more pathetic that they lost the general after that.

[Phoenix Dark]

Bernie probably would have lost to Trump. He got by in primary without presenting any actually detailed policy, but he did argue for increasing taxes on the middle class. Good luck with that. Not to mention the fact that he spent time in the Soviet Union and I'm sure Putin had receipts.

[Himu]

I accepted a long time ago that Bernie, although my guy, lost. I've made my peace with that. We can play "____ would have beat Trump" but at the end of the day, Hillary still lost. Rather than play that game, more criticism should be aimed at the Clinton campaign for not having the best campaign possible because they absolutely could have won. But even that's spoiled milk at this point. It was a fucking year ago. Time to move on, learn from our mistakes, and try to make a better future.

[Steve Contra]

Wow, how dumb is this

https://t.co/gCyfeBkSXZ

Twitter has refused to provide any details about how this unique and powerful account in its care is operated and safeguarded. Obviously, there are important security reasons for this, and that's why there hasn't been very much public insistence for Twitter to be more transparent.

But the fact that the president of the US was able to be silenced, even just for eleven minutes, by a Twitter support staffer is not a reassuring sign. It suggests that whatever safeguards Twitter has in place for the POTUS account suffer from some major deficiencies.

We don't really know what level of access various Twitter employees have to user accounts. Hopefully this staffer only had the ability to suspend the account, and not to actually access it. But we have no idea.

@realDonaldTrump isn't even the official POTUS account, it's his private account that he chose to keep. Why the fuck would Twitter have some sort of special sauce on his private account? 

The amount of damage you could do with Trump's twitter is enormous. How many alarm bells went off in Washington when it looked like he deleted his account?

[Mandark]

The saving grace is that he's such an obvious bullshitter that everyone's tacitly agreed to just ignore what he says.

[Steve Contra]

You know Twitter is a shit company because they think it's a good idea to let the president have a personal account that is somehow so poorly protected a contractor can take it offline.

[H.I.V.E.]

I think if Bernie would have run he would have won Florida thus winning the general election I think that merits further discussion and analysis.

[Valhelm]

Bernie probably would have lost to Trump. He got by in primary without presenting any actually detailed policy, but he did argue for increasing taxes on the middle class. Good luck with that. Not to mention the fact that he spent time in the Soviet Union and I'm sure Putin had receipts.

Trump is increasing taxes on the middle class right now.

Hillary lost by such a narrow margin that it's pretty unlikely Bernie would perform worse than she did, especially because many of the states in which she faltered where places where Bernie won in the primary.

Democrats need to understand that they need to run candidates who can actually energize voters, otherwise they'll just run Zuckerberg in 2024 and lose against Roy Moore

[Steve Contra]

that merits further discussion and analysis.

[Phoenix Dark]

Bernie probably would have lost to Trump. He got by in primary without presenting any actually detailed policy, but he did argue for increasing taxes on the middle class. Good luck with that. Not to mention the fact that he spent time in the Soviet Union and I'm sure Putin had receipts.

Trump is increasing taxes on the middle class right now.

Hillary lost by such a narrow margin that it's pretty unlikely Bernie would perform worse than she did, especially because many of the states in which she faltered where places where Bernie won in the primary.

Democrats need to understand that they need to run candidates who can actually energize voters, otherwise they'll just run Zuckerberg in 2024 and lose against Roy Moore

Trump didn't run on raising taxes. Bernie did. Obviously every democrat nominee is always accused of wanting to raise taxes, but Sanders is on record arguing for middle class tax increases to help pay for his policies. And he's not a slick enough politician to explain it decently.

[Himu]

I'm so tired of arguing this shit.

[Mandark]

Trump didn't run on raising taxes. Bernie did. Obviously every democrat nominee is always accused of wanting to raise taxes, but Sanders is on record arguing for middle class tax increases to help pay for his policies. And he's not a slick enough politician to explain it decently.

For all the bitter feelings, the Dem primary was really a kid gloves affair. Hillary didn't get attacked over an ongoing scandal, and Bernie is maybe the first politician in history to run on a large tax hike without it being used against him.

I don't remember Gore-Bradley having an aftermath anything like this, and that was a way meaner primary with the winner going on to lose a much more winnable race.

[H.I.V.E.]

I mean if Bernie then wins Florida and all Hillary states not to mention the powerful youth vote then no way Trump could have won.

[Phoenix Dark]

Trump didn't run on raising taxes. Bernie did. Obviously every democrat nominee is always accused of wanting to raise taxes, but Sanders is on record arguing for middle class tax increases to help pay for his policies. And he's not a slick enough politician to explain it decently.

For all the bitter feelings, the Dem primary was really a kid gloves affair. Hillary didn't get attacked over an ongoing scandal, and Bernie is maybe the first politician in history to run on a large tax hike without it being used against him.

I don't remember Gore-Bradley having an aftermath anything like this, and that was a way meaner primary with the winner going on to lose a much more winnable race.

Nobody talks about this. Hillary basically walked through the primary without running negative ads. For all the hand wringing both Hillary and Bernie stans did last year, NOTHING during that campaign drew blood or got personal or "ugly." It goes back to my view that a lot of Trump and Bernie fans basically didn't pay attention to politics before 2015/2016, and now they're experts who want to explain How Things Have Always Been.

But like...I remember this

 

2016 was a breeze. Even the 2012 republican primary was way more ugly.

[Valhelm]

Trump didn't run on raising taxes. Bernie did. Obviously every democrat nominee is always accused of wanting to raise taxes, but Sanders is on record arguing for middle class tax increases to help pay for his policies. And he's not a slick enough politician to explain it decently.

For all the bitter feelings, the Dem primary was really a kid gloves affair. Hillary didn't get attacked over an ongoing scandal, and Bernie is maybe the first politician in history to run on a large tax hike without it being used against him.

I don't remember Gore-Bradley having an aftermath anything like this, and that was a way meaner primary with the winner going on to lose a much more winnable race.

Gore-Bradley didn't represent the same kind of ideological divide at all

it sucks, but the difference in attitude between younger Dems and older Dems means the 2016 primary will probably keep going until the party moves left to stay viable

[H.I.V.E.]

Obama was pretty bad though. Most things failed some got worse and his legacy is being destroyed by Trump. In the end what did he accomplish besides sending Iran tons of cash in bribes and ransom illegally?

Under his nose Russia planted Trump in the WH.

[Rufus]

I mean if Bernie then wins Florida and all Hillary states not to mention the powerful youth vote then no way Trump could have won.

If he'd won the election he'd have won the election. ...Uh, yes?

[H.I.V.E.]

I mean if Bernie then wins Florida and all Hillary states not to mention the powerful youth vote then no way Trump could have won.

If he'd won the election he'd have won the election. ...Uh, yes?

I also think Hillary was unwise to make that deplorable speech and not campaigning harder in smaller states. Even Bill thought so.

[HyperZoneWasAwesome]

Obama was pretty bad though. Most things failed some got worse and his legacy is being destroyed by Trump. In the end what did he accomplish besides sending Iran tons of cash in bribes and ransom illegally?

Under his nose Russia planted Trump in the WH.

Iran got access to their money from unfrozen accounts as the result of sanctions being relaxed for them adhering to their part of the nuclear deal, which was and still is a major foreign policy success of the Obama administration. Even if (when, really) Donnie tears up the deal, the international pressure being applied will likely still keep Iran from developing nukes, it was a win.

[MIMIC]

I didn't even read that Donna Brazile excerpt. When I started reading it, I didn't even know that she had written it. I read the first few lines, and I was already wondering WTF I had clicked on.

I lit a candle in my living room and put on some gospel music. I wanted to center myself for what I knew would be an emotional phone call.

lolwut

Then I realized that she had written it, and I promptly closed the tab.

But it wasn't because I thought the allegations were crazy. It was because her credibility is shot (with me, at least). I have no idea what her current motives are (nor do I care), but those shenanigans during the primaries was where I drew the line. If she and the DNC are going to cheat for Hillary, then you can fuck right on off. The only reason I voted for her was to keep Trump out.

I really hope Bernie runs in 2020. Who cares how old he will be. It's not like we haven't ever had a President die in office. The VP will take the reins. And it's not like we are in such a stellar position that we need to be worrying about whether or not the candidate can finish out his term. Trump is president. Let's fix that before we start getting picky.

[kingv]

Bernie probably would have lost to Trump. He got by in primary without presenting any actually detailed policy, but he did argue for increasing taxes on the middle class. Good luck with that. Not to mention the fact that he spent time in the Soviet Union and I'm sure Putin had receipts.

Maybe, but I’m not buying this revisionist history that Trump was actually a good or even tough candidate.

His winning was almost entirely based on the fact that he faced the 2nd most unpopular major party candidate nationally of all time (second only to him).

Meaning Hillary had worse fsvorability than even loser candidates like Dukakis.

[H.I.V.E.]

Obama was pretty bad though. Most things failed some got worse and his legacy is being destroyed by Trump. In the end what did he accomplish besides sending Iran tons of cash in bribes and ransom illegally?

Under his nose Russia planted Trump in the WH.

Iran got access to their money from unfrozen accounts as the result of sanctions being relaxed for them adhering to their part of the nuclear deal, which was and still is a major foreign policy success of the Obama administration. Even if (when, really) Donnie tears up the deal, the international pressure being applied will likely still keep Iran from developing nukes, it was a win.

Not true. He did it illegally and in secret but was caught doing it in trade for hostages. Anyway Trump will tear that up as well. So it didn't exactly work out.

[HyperZoneWasAwesome]

honestly, WTF are you talking about?

[HyperZoneWasAwesome]

honestly, WTF are you talking about?

Dude's trying to troll, so it doesn't matter.

yeah, shame on me. I get better political treatises from my cat.

[VomKriege]

honestly, WTF are you talking about?

Dude's trying to troll, so it doesn't matter.

yeah, shame on me. I get better political treatises from my cat.

Have your cat apply to the White House, they could use the help.

[HyperZoneWasAwesome]

my cat is a selfish little jerk who likes to test boundaries, destroy stuff, and awaken volatile foes (well just me) with no forethought of the consequences.

She'd fit in just fine.

[Steve Contra]

Hey guys what does everyone think of that democratic primary that was something huh

[Phoenix Dark]

it sure was

[thehunter116]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/03/us/politics/trump-campaign-page-russian.html

https://twitter.com/DafnaLinzer/status/926586183777443840?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FDafnaLinzer%2Fstatus%2F926586183777443840

You know I'm starting to think Trump might not be telling the truth with this whole collusion thing.

[H.I.V.E.]

You guys didn't vote for Trump?

[thehunter116]

You guys didn't vote for Trump?

I can't tell if this is sarcasm.


Is this sarcasm?

[H.I.V.E.]

You guys didn't vote for Trump?

I can't tell if this is sarcasm.


Is this sarcasm?

 Making America great it is a better message than with her.

[TakingBackSunday]

Of course it is

[thehunter116]

Of course it is

I can't tell anymore.

[Human Snorenado]

Who fed a 8 year old glue and turned them loose in here?

[H.I.V.E.]

Who fed a 8 year old glue and turned them loose in here?

[bluemax]

Bernie probably would have lost to Trump. He got by in primary without presenting any actually detailed policy, but he did argue for increasing taxes on the middle class. Good luck with that. Not to mention the fact that he spent time in the Soviet Union and I'm sure Putin had receipts.

But he was gonna magically break up the banks!

[VomKriege]

Counter factual history is often an exercise in futility.

[agrajag]

Bernie would have destroyed Trump, let's be real.

Take Clinton's +2, add the 3 points Comey cost her, and then add another point or two because he would have had a unified coalition. Probably a +7 win, 330+ electoral votes, Dems win the Senate. IDK about the House.

This is Scott Steiner level political analytics

 

[agrajag]

[benjipwns]

https://mic.com/articles/185680/the-far-right-thinks-a-violent-antifa-overthrow-is-coming-nov-4-but-the-truth-is-far-stranger

  new synthesis

[MIMIC]

(regarding the earlier discussion of Bernie facing Trump)

I don't think Bernie would have "destroyed" Trump, but I do think he would have won. I figure that he might have had a fairly larger margin of victory than Trump had over Hillary. Trump was reviled, but people (even I) sometimes forget that he did obliterate the GOP field. There was definitely something special about Trump's candidacy. He had the media hanging off of his every word. And besides Trump, Bernie was the "other" exciting candidate that got a lot of people fired up about voting (especially the younger crowd). He was the only candidate that was both exciting AND well-liked.

I've participated in 4 elections (2004-2016), and this was the only one where I was "meh" about voting.

2004: BUSH GOTTA GO! (although I was never excited about Kerry)
2008: ZOMG BLACK PRESIDENT THAT I AGREE WITH!
2012: ZOMG BLACK PRESIDENT THAT I AGREE WITH!
2016: What is this shit?

It's clear that the enthusiasm waned this year (although you could make a case that Trump probably had a lot of enthusiastic voters) and that many crucial voters just stayed home. I take voting seriously and vote in every election (just did early voting yesterday), but it's more than obvious that others are going to need a bigger push. And giving the people an exciting candidate is that incentive they need. I mean, you could chastise people all you want about the importance of voting (Supreme Court! WWIII! Racism!) but at the end of the day, it nets nothing but moral superiority. "It doesn't matter that Clinton wasn't 'exciting'; you still should have voted! Supreme Court! WWIII! Racism!" Meanwhile, Trump is still president, so what have we actually accomplished?

It may very well be a sad state of events that we need a bright, shiny ball in front of us to make us do what we're supposed to do, like voting in every election. People will never automatically care about such things. But if it takes a bright, shiny ball, then so be it. Most voters aren't going to be as heavily invested in politics, and they need that extra incentive to push them over the edge. And I firmly believe that Bernie was that thing (like Obama was to an even greater extent). And if he runs in 2020, then we'll get our answer.

And I could be completely wrong about all of this, but that's just my two cents.

[Tasty]

https://twitter.com/APCentralRegion/status/926405458574880773

What could go wrong?

[Dennis]

Former Democratic National Committee head Donna Brazile writes in a new book that she seriously contemplated replacing Hillary Clinton as the party’s 2016 presidential nominee with then-Vice President Biden in the aftermath of Clinton’s fainting spell, in part because Clinton’s campaign was “anemic” and had taken on “the odor of failure.”

[TakingBackSunday]

Fuck this Darwin award-winning country

[Optimus]

In this Bernie v Trump scenario, you have to remember Hillary would have won had she campaigned properly. So Hillary Visting Michigan & Wisconsin would have won against Hillary Not Visiting Michigan & Winsconsin, the latter Hillary is what we got and lost to Trump.

So the question you gotta ask yourself when discussing Bernie v Trump is, is Bernie a distinguished mentally-challenged campaigner whose staff feel like they have no message? Because then you'd also lose against Trump. I'd say no, he's more like Obama in that regard.

How do you know that Hillary would have won if she campaigned in those states? You guys seriously underestimate people's sheer hate against the current political system and establishment politicians. Clinton lost because she's a corrupt piece of shit deeply embedded with the ruling class of the country that people hate so much that they voted for the most unelectable imbecile in US history.

[seagrams hotsauce]

Who do you guys think would win in a fight; The Predator or John Cena? I think the Predator would win, but Cena might have a chance if he got to use the exosuit from Alien

[Optimus]

How do you know that Hillary would have won if she campaigned in those states? You guys seriously underestimate people's sheer hate against the current political system and establishment politicians. Clinton lost because she's a corrupt piece of shit deeply embedded with the ruling class of the country that people hate so much that they voted for the most unelectable imbecile in US history.

Yeah people hate her so much she got almost 3 million more votes than anti-establishment guy Trump.

Given the tiny margins of those two states I mentioned, Hillary would have won with a slightly different (less lazy) campaign.

She got 3 million more votes from California liberals that would have voted for a fucking talking gorilla if he was the Democratic candidate. Keep up with the delusion that it was the campaign and not Hillary or Obama's disastrous neoliberal polices that continued the republican decimation of the middle class and when in 2020 Trump is still the president try to find another excuse to keep up with the cognitive dissonance.

Even though I don't really believe in polls I'll just leave this here: https://www.commondreams.org/news/2017/10/25/tensions-simmer-poll-shows-majority-democrats-want-bold-leftward-shift

[team filler]

Who do you guys think would win in a fight; The Predator or John Cena? I think the Predator would win, but Cena might have a chance if he got to use the exosuit from Alien

Abort abort abort

[seagrams hotsauce]

Can't shoot what you can't see!

[fistfulofmetal]

Can't shoot what you can't see!

are we talking about Cena or Predator here because they both got that power...

[MIMIC]

In this Bernie v Trump scenario, you have to remember Hillary would have won had she campaigned properly. So Hillary Visting Michigan & Wisconsin would have won against Hillary Not Visiting Michigan & Winsconsin, the latter Hillary is what we got and lost to Trump.

So the question you gotta ask yourself when discussing Bernie v Trump is, is Bernie a distinguished mentally-challenged campaigner whose staff feel like they have no message? Because then you'd also lose against Trump. I'd say no, he's more like Obama in that regard.

Huh? Even if Hillary won Wisconsin AND Michigan, she'd still lose the election. Taking away Michigan (16) and Wisconsin (10) from Trump's electoral total (304) gives him 278. Adding Michigan (16) and Wisconsin (10) to Hillary's electoral total (227) gives her 253.

Trump still wins.

(and all of this is assuming that she simply gets those states automatically just by campaigning more there)

[MIMIC]

Those states were in the bag before the Comey letter. She didn't campaign there because polls said she was up like 6-8 points.

All these takes are dumb. I've given people the actual explanation for the loss like a dozen times. Just accept that I'm right, my take is canon, and move on so we can stop annoying Triumph and Contra every other day.

Hillary supposedly had Michigan in the bag during the primaries, too. She was up by some absurd number and ended up losing. In fact, Hillary was overestimated in Wisconsin and Pennsylvania as well. And it wasn't a letter that cut her numbers. She won those states, but it wasn't by the margin that the polls were suggesting.

Seems to me that Hillary was overestimated. We saw it in the primaries....and then saw it again in the general.

[Valhelm]

crazy that this video is from 2008 but could be 1990

[Great Rumbler]

[Rise]

[MIMIC]

Seems to me that Hillary was overestimated. We saw it in the primaries....and then saw it again in the general.

if i recall correctly you were pretty routinely overestimated as a functioning human being over on GAF too

You got me. I'm actually a fish or something.

[Madrun Badrun]

what thread is this?

[brawndolicious]

Why are you guys arguing about apathetic voters being swayed by hints of wrongdoing when ya'll know, after Trump, nothing the FBI or a congressional investigation turns up on a politician will be shocking anybody into changing their mind?

I don't get it. If Hillary won, that would be the standard we're used to. In this timeline, we're supposed to learn how to filter our pee so we don't die from radioactive water.

[seagrams hotsauce]

Wait, you guys are talking about a man who owns a restaurant near the Hardee's in Acworth, right?