Author Topic: US Politics Thread |OT| SAD TRUMP  (Read 2965605 times)

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Pwnz

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Tired, inane and morally vacuous
« Reply #12480 on: December 21, 2017, 02:04:36 PM »
This tax law sling shotting and burning the GOP only makes sense if Republican Congressmen think there's no hope for contended seats and so they're cashing out with bribes.

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Tired, inane and morally vacuous
« Reply #12481 on: December 21, 2017, 03:09:00 PM »
I think it needs to be kept in mind that the effective taxation rate was never 35%.

And that historical record of tax cuts spurring major new investment is not all that solid.

There are good reasons on other merits for lowering the corporate tax rate(though the manner in which this bill does it is not one of them IMO). Hoping for major economic growth isn’t one of them.

Companies have been awash in low interest capital for some time now. If they saw a market opportunity to expand or invest in, I am not sure how many were being held back by a 35% corporate rate to do so? It seems like a very narrow sect of companies that likely saw demand that warranted investment but put it off because of tax rates.

I'm a Puppy!

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Tired, inane and morally vacuous
« Reply #12482 on: December 21, 2017, 03:48:44 PM »
Exactly. I don't know any corporation that pays anywhere close to 35%. The idea itself is laughable.
And Corporations have a record amount of cash and have had it on hand for several years now. It's not like they were like "Hey, if our rates were just a little lower...."
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Phoenix Dark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Tired, inane and morally vacuous
« Reply #12483 on: December 21, 2017, 05:51:08 PM »
The "high corporate tax rate" is one of the biggest bullshit talking points out there. Not just the 35% one...the WH was giving Rubio shit for wanting it to be 21% instead of 20%, and allies were accusing him of making it all unworkable before they ultimately caved. Bullshit theater, man.

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shosta

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Tired, inane and morally vacuous
« Reply #12484 on: December 21, 2017, 06:17:53 PM »
Exactly. I don't know any corporation that pays anywhere close to 35%. The idea itself is laughable.
And Corporations have a record amount of cash and have had it on hand for several years now. It's not like they were like "Hey, if our rates were just a little lower...."
There are many that pay much more.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/05/25/sunday-review/corporate-taxes.html

I'm not sure why it makes sense that Amazon pays 9% and Exxon pays  over 60%.

EDIT: wow this actually made it into the newsfeed?
« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 06:38:40 PM by Shostakovich »
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Joe Molotov

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Tired, inane and morally vacuous
« Reply #12485 on: December 21, 2017, 07:35:01 PM »
I think it needs to be kept in mind that the effective taxation rate was never 35%.

And that historical record of tax cuts spurring major new investment is not all that solid.

There are good reasons on other merits for lowering the corporate tax rate(though the manner in which this bill does it is not one of them IMO). Hoping for major economic growth isn’t one of them.

Companies have been awash in low interest capital for some time now. If they saw a market opportunity to expand or invest in, I am not sure how many were being held back by a 35% corporate rate to do so? It seems like a very narrow sect of companies that likely saw demand that warranted investment but put it off because of tax rates.

What about the small Christian baker forced to bake gay wedding cakes by Obamacare?
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Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Tired, inane and morally vacuous
« Reply #12486 on: December 21, 2017, 07:55:18 PM »
Exactly. I don't know any corporation that pays anywhere close to 35%. The idea itself is laughable.
And Corporations have a record amount of cash and have had it on hand for several years now. It's not like they were like "Hey, if our rates were just a little lower...."
There are many that pay much more.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/05/25/sunday-review/corporate-taxes.html

I'm not sure why it makes sense that Amazon pays 9% and Exxon pays  over 60%.

EDIT: wow this actually made it into the newsfeed?
(Image removed from quote.)

I mean in terms of Exxon they absolutely should be taxed higher, but probably not because of whatever is going on with our admittedly fucked up corporate tax code. That instead of getting simplified and better purposed just got more fucked up and distortionary.

They should be paying more because of the enormous negative externalities they impose on the enviorenment and society. Though done in the form of a carbon tax... And maybe to make up for the implicit and explicit subsidization their industries receive because of its status as a vital national resource which gives it a competitive advantage over competiting energy resources.

shosta

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Tired, inane and morally vacuous
« Reply #12487 on: December 21, 2017, 07:56:07 PM »
I think it needs to be kept in mind that the effective taxation rate was never 35%.

And that historical record of tax cuts spurring major new investment is not all that solid.

There are good reasons on other merits for lowering the corporate tax rate(though the manner in which this bill does it is not one of them IMO). Hoping for major economic growth isn’t one of them.

Companies have been awash in low interest capital for some time now. If they saw a market opportunity to expand or invest in, I am not sure how many were being held back by a 35% corporate rate to do so? It seems like a very narrow sect of companies that likely saw demand that warranted investment but put it off because of tax rates.
Lowering the tax rate is about encouraging companies to establish their headquarters in this country, not increasing investment from the companies already here. See Ireland.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jul/12/irish-economic-growth-revised-figures-foreign-investment-aircraft

Second example, companies often choose to incorporate themselves in the state of Delaware.
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shosta

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Tired, inane and morally vacuous
« Reply #12488 on: December 21, 2017, 08:01:25 PM »
They should be paying more because of the enormous negative externalities they impose on the enviorenment and society. Though done in the form of a carbon tax... And maybe to make up for the implicit and explicit subsidization their industries receive because of its status as a vital national resource which gives it a competitive advantage over competiting energy resources.
this is income tax. I agree regarding the externalities but customers should pay the carbon tax, not suppliers. Also ftr I like Cap n Trade.
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Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Tired, inane and morally vacuous
« Reply #12489 on: December 21, 2017, 09:41:01 PM »
They should be paying more because of the enormous negative externalities they impose on the enviorenment and society. Though done in the form of a carbon tax... And maybe to make up for the implicit and explicit subsidization their industries receive because of its status as a vital national resource which gives it a competitive advantage over competiting energy resources.
this is income tax. I agree regarding the externalities but customers should pay the carbon tax, not suppliers. Also ftr I like Cap n Trade.

I'll take either TBH. A carbon tax is much more simple and cost controlled, cap and trade is probably better at controlling emissions. I don't really have a strong opinion on where in the chain the tax is applied. Though I think for simplicity sake, doing it at the point of supply is easiest to enforce and ensure compliance, but the point of sale is fine, as long as it ensures the price is reflective of a good faith estimate of the real total cost and properly incentivizes behavior.



Quote
Lowering the tax rate is about encouraging companies to establish their headquarters in this country, not increasing investment from the companies already here. See Ireland.

Lets not bullshit here. This is a bill that is entirely centered on pleasing their donors, relevant industries in their areas, themselves, and major campaign contributors. You don't hastily pass a tax bill this fucked up and distortionary because you are making a good faith effort to maximize the re-shoring of corporations and improve the corporate tax code with some grander vision in mind.

There is certainly the possibility that some companies may see it more worthwhile to re-shore under a new tax structure, and many will certainly cash in on the perverse incentive structure underlying the one time repatriation tax, but I haven't really seen much in the way of evidence this is going to do a whole lot. And last time repatriation was tried it didn't. And due to all the loopholes and workarounds the new lower rate is probably more relevant to the US located smaller businesses that aren't in a position to exploit the loopholes or move their operations overseas.

Cindi Mayweather

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Tired, inane and morally vacuous
« Reply #12490 on: December 21, 2017, 09:51:09 PM »
when dems think trump voters will see beyond their after tax income

(Image removed from quote.)

What is it with these images that just pisses me off?
weed

kingv

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Tired, inane and morally vacuous
« Reply #12491 on: December 21, 2017, 09:57:44 PM »
I’m just thinking some potential investments will go from below the hurdle rate or close to it, to exceeding the hurdle rate, since after-tax cash flows will be higher, since taxes will be lower.

It’s easy to say that an investment that will be profitable at a 21% tax rate will also be profitable at a 35% tax rate, but that’s not always the case on a project by project basis, and definitely not the case when projected cash flows are discounted for risk.

I’d rather tax the money when it actually flows to the wealthy shareholders and execs. Republicans obviously won’t do that, but a future Dem administration could do that while keeping the corporate rate at 21%.

Been some years since my basic finance, but IRC. It’s not exactly that simple for a few reasons that basically. All revolve around the idea that changing the tax rate will also change the hurdle rate for a few reasons:

- all other things being equal, lower taxes will push the fed to raise interest rates because of inflation, thus raising the expected interest rate on  bonds => raising the cost of debt
- typically interest is tax deductible, so lowering the tax rate will make the cost of debt somewhat higher even for the same interest rate
- cost of equity will also tend to increase because expectations of stock prices increase.
- overall this will increase WACC
- I expect the biggest factor will be that the tax cuts slice both ways, in that continuing operations also becomes more profitable than it was before, so the opportunity cost of pursuing some project vs investing the money into building more of the same  dildos is also higher.

I expect overall, you are still correct, but it might not be that simple if hurdle rate goes from %10 to 12% for a company.


Of course, a lot (most probably ) companies are not well run in this way and might not be smart enough to actually recalc their hurdle rates.

I suspect that the companies this helps the most are those medium-sized companies that are large but not enormous and have almost all of their operations domestically. The “I’m not big enough to make an Irish double cream pie with a twist sandwich tax evasion scheme” but I still have a 100 million+ in revenue.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 10:01:47 PM by kingv »

VomKriege

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Tired, inane and morally vacuous
« Reply #12492 on: December 21, 2017, 10:53:45 PM »
The corporate tax cut will probably help the economy tbh.
Depends on what you call the "economy"

Certainly the investor class will do better. But wage growth? # of living wage jobs? Nah. It'll make the current stagflation even worse.

Also public coffers and redistribution programs.
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benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Tired, inane and morally vacuous
« Reply #12493 on: December 21, 2017, 11:02:08 PM »
HA THEY GOTCHA YOU WEREN'T PREPARED FOR THIS ONE AFTER WE SAID CNN, NBC, ETC.:


ANOTHER TOUGHY!


THE REAL STORY HERE IS THE GOOD SHOWING FOR THE GUY WHO'S BEEN DEAD OVER TWO DECADES:


(the present tense used in the question...should use something like "who do you think will be found to have been more corrupt?" or "whose administration...")

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Tired, inane and morally vacuous
« Reply #12494 on: December 21, 2017, 11:04:18 PM »
Maybe the real story is that PPP is subjecting people to 67 question polls. With 80% of the respondents still being on the phone.

Bebpo

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Tired, inane and morally vacuous
« Reply #12495 on: December 22, 2017, 03:22:08 PM »
Oh man, I'm getting fucked so hard under the new tax bill. Don't know why the House hates law firms with a passion but the senate doesn't. Gonna have to either get married or budget for the next few years until the democrats fix this shit :|

shosta

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Tired, inane and morally vacuous
« Reply #12496 on: December 22, 2017, 03:40:26 PM »
Wtf are you doing, laundering money?
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Bebpo

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Tired, inane and morally vacuous
« Reply #12497 on: December 22, 2017, 03:50:48 PM »
Nah, I'd probably have lower taxes if I did that.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2017, 05:22:55 PM by Bebpo »


seagrams hotsauce

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| 2016 renewed for a 3rd season
« Reply #12499 on: December 23, 2017, 04:01:00 AM »
Not sure what's so bad about that first diagram to begin with?

Let's Cyber

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| 2016 renewed for a 3rd season
« Reply #12500 on: December 23, 2017, 04:34:15 AM »
I see it as dehumanizing.

At first glance, it evoked rabbits or some other rodent breeding and overpopulating an area. Let in a couple and god knows how many you'll end up with!

HyperZoneWasAwesome

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| 2016 renewed for a 3rd season
« Reply #12501 on: December 23, 2017, 05:10:38 AM »
Melania's .... parents .... live .... in ... the ... White ... House.

seagrams hotsauce

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| 2016 renewed for a 3rd season
« Reply #12502 on: December 23, 2017, 06:00:49 AM »
I see it as dehumanizing.

At first glance, it evoked rabbits or some other rodent breeding and overpopulating an area. Let in a couple and god knows how many you'll end up with!

But doesn't Paul Ryan keep whining about birth rates? Is there some kind of subtext I might be very intentionally ignoring here?

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| 2016 renewed for a 3rd season
« Reply #12503 on: December 23, 2017, 06:04:16 AM »
Need more babies in America + don't want immigrants having those babies =  :thinking

Let's Cyber

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| 2016 renewed for a 3rd season
« Reply #12504 on: December 23, 2017, 06:38:15 AM »
But doesn't Paul Ryan keep whining about birth rates? Is there some kind of subtext I might be very intentionally ignoring here?
Only white, christian babies that speak 'Merican and are staunchly anti-union. 


Trurl

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Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| 2016 renewed for a 3rd season
« Reply #12507 on: December 23, 2017, 01:12:53 PM »
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/23/us/politics/trump-immigration.html

Quote from: New York Times
According to six officials who attended or were briefed about the meeting, Mr. Trump then began reading aloud from the document, which his domestic policy adviser, Stephen Miller, had given him just before the meeting. The document listed how many immigrants had received visas to enter the United States in 2017.

More than 2,500 were from Afghanistan, a terrorist haven, the president complained.

Haiti had sent 15,000 people. They “all have AIDS,” he grumbled
, according to one person who attended the meeting and another person who was briefed about it by a different person who was there.

Forty thousand had come from Nigeria, Mr. Trump added. Once they had seen the United States, they would never “go back to their huts” in Africa, recalled the two officials, who asked for anonymity to discuss a sensitive conversation in the Oval Office.

...

Sarah Huckabee Sanders, the White House press secretary, denied on Saturday morning that Mr. Trump had made derogatory statements about immigrants during the meeting.

seagrams hotsauce

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| 2016 renewed for a 3rd season
« Reply #12508 on: December 23, 2017, 02:08:35 PM »
I can't wait til this fucking guy dies

Phoenix Dark

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kingv

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| 2016 renewed for a 3rd season
« Reply #12510 on: December 23, 2017, 02:51:26 PM »
Shit, Inwould take Bush over trump in a heart beat. There’s no question who was a better President.

I’d cheer and go to his inauguration.

Think about that shit for a second.

Great Rumbler

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| 2016 renewed for a 3rd season
« Reply #12511 on: December 23, 2017, 03:27:04 PM »
At least with the Dubya administration the evilness and stupidity were in two different people.
dog

jorma

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| 2016 renewed for a 3rd season
« Reply #12512 on: December 23, 2017, 03:28:38 PM »
Shit, Inwould take Bush over trump in a heart beat. There’s no question who was a better President.

I’d cheer and go to his inauguration.

Think about that shit for a second.

No.
They should rebuild Spandau Prison and throw Bush in there. Trump should probably just be placed in a home for the not quite all there.


etiolate

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| 2016 renewed for a 3rd season
« Reply #12513 on: December 23, 2017, 03:36:01 PM »
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/944665687292817415

I am only posting this because it has more clauses than a Tim Allen holiday movie franchise.

kingv

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| 2016 renewed for a 3rd season
« Reply #12514 on: December 23, 2017, 05:35:47 PM »
I can’t even process this statement? Is he saying that Clinton gave McCabe $700K?

benjipwns

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| 2016 renewed for a 3rd season
« Reply #12515 on: December 23, 2017, 05:44:26 PM »
McCabe's wife was running for state senate in Virginia in 2015, she got ~$500,000 from 2020 Democratic frontrunner Governor Terry McAuliffe's PAC and another $200,000 from the Virginia Democratic Party.

benjipwns

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| 2016 renewed for a 3rd season
« Reply #12516 on: December 23, 2017, 05:45:44 PM »
Trump's complained about it before a bit more clearly, though it took him two tweets instead of one:
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/890207082926022656
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/890208319566229504

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| 2016 renewed for a 3rd season
« Reply #12517 on: December 23, 2017, 06:45:17 PM »

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| 2016 renewed for a 3rd season
« Reply #12518 on: December 23, 2017, 07:41:02 PM »
2017, when the NFL and FBI became prominent leftist organizations.

What a time to be alive.

Joe Molotov

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| 2016 renewed for a 3rd season
« Reply #12519 on: December 24, 2017, 12:55:23 AM »
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/944665687292817415

I am only posting this because it has more clauses than a Tim Allen holiday movie franchise.

Excuse me, that the "Phony Crooked Hillary Clinton Investigation".
©@©™

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| 2016 renewed for a 3rd season
« Reply #12520 on: December 24, 2017, 01:02:06 AM »
no, they constantly told us she was healthy and it wasn't a double, so it'd be the real crooked hillary

chronovore

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| 2016 renewed for a 3rd season
« Reply #12521 on: December 25, 2017, 07:25:00 PM »


Does that woman in the screenshot look like Jack Nicholson to anyone else?


Pwnz

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| 2016 renewed for a 3rd season
« Reply #12523 on: December 26, 2017, 11:14:38 AM »
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/945421649918201856

hahaha yes!!! :rejoice obama will most def get an invite and you know trump's gonna go berserk and end up attacking harry and especially his wife for being female and not 100% white

If you thought 2017 was a crazy year... just wait for 2018

Let the world drown in fuckery! :rejoice

The crown redeemed.

Cindi Mayweather

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| 2016 renewed for a 3rd season
« Reply #12524 on: December 26, 2017, 11:54:11 AM »
:rejoice
weed

shosta

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| 2016 renewed for a 3rd season
« Reply #12525 on: December 26, 2017, 05:08:32 PM »
WOW, @foxandfrlends  “Dossier is bogus. Clinton Campaign, DNC funded Dossier. FBI CANNOT (after all of this time) VERIFY CLAIMS IN DOSSIER OF RUSSIA/TRUMP COLLUSION. FBI TAINTED.” And they used this Crooked Hillary pile of garbage as the basis for going after the Trump Campaign!

*cough* excuse me, I had some gnarly Christmas dinner
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kingv

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| 2016 renewed for a 3rd season
« Reply #12526 on: December 26, 2017, 05:39:28 PM »
  :ohhh

kingv

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| 2016 renewed for a 3rd season
« Reply #12527 on: December 27, 2017, 10:26:12 AM »
https://twitter.com/josephjflynn1/status/945840303801372672

Mike Flynn’s brother asking Trump to pardon Flynn.

The question becomes: “if this investigation is wrapping up, and all Flynn did was lie to the fbi and violate the Logan Act, and this charge was just Mueller tidying up loose ends... then what does Flynn need a Pardon for? He already pleaded guilty.”  Theoretically, there’s like nothing to pardon him from, right?

zomgee

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| 2016 renewed for a 3rd season
« Reply #12528 on: December 27, 2017, 12:28:23 PM »
so called "shit"
rub

Joe Molotov

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| 2016 renewed for a 3rd season
« Reply #12529 on: December 27, 2017, 12:29:45 PM »
I thought the reason why Flynn was working with Mueller's team is that they threatened him to charge him with shit that was unpardonable?

Like driving slow in the left lane?
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agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| 2016 renewed for a 3rd season
« Reply #12530 on: December 27, 2017, 04:49:40 PM »
Getting pardoned for a crime doesn't absolve him from lying under oath in the future. So if he is a witness in the investigation, he better cooperate unless Trump is going to keep issuing pardons every time he fucks up.

kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| 2016 renewed for a 3rd season
« Reply #12531 on: December 27, 2017, 05:03:12 PM »
The other thing is that once you are pardoned you lose your right to take the fifth because you can’t self incriminate.

Phoenix Dark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| 2016 renewed for a 3rd season
« Reply #12532 on: December 27, 2017, 05:06:05 PM »
I thought the reason why Flynn was working with Mueller's team is that they threatened him to charge him with shit that was unpardonable?

I'd imagine there are state charges.
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ToxicAdam

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| 2016 renewed for a 3rd season
« Reply #12533 on: December 28, 2017, 01:12:08 PM »


 :snob

Only 3 more years left to enjoy the beaches.


Nola

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| 2016 renewed for a 3rd season
« Reply #12534 on: December 28, 2017, 02:04:55 PM »
(Image removed from quote.)

 :snob

Only 3 more years left to enjoy the beaches.

So “some” experts were a bit too presumptuous with their predicted effects and the Times, like often happens, ran with the most sensationalist and attention grabbing component of an otherwise conservative estimate. The horror.


VomKriege

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| 2016 renewed for a 3rd season
« Reply #12535 on: December 28, 2017, 02:15:18 PM »
Getting pardoned for a crime doesn't absolve him from lying under oath in the future. So if he is a witness in the investigation, he better cooperate unless Trump is going to keep issuing pardons every time he fucks up.

Not an expert by any means but didn't Ford pardon Nixon for basically everything within a period of several years, preemptively and before any charges were prosecuted ? It is mostly viewed as shameful but Trump wouldn't care, I bet, if he ever decided to grant slighty-veiled immunity.

The question becomes: “if this investigation is wrapping up, and all Flynn did was lie to the fbi and violate the Logan Act, and this charge was just Mueller tidying up loose ends... then what does Flynn need a Pardon for? He already pleaded guilty.”  Theoretically, there’s like nothing to pardon him from, right?

At the very least a pardon could absolve him from serving any punishment.
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kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| 2016 renewed for a 3rd season
« Reply #12536 on: December 28, 2017, 04:00:37 PM »
The punishment for what he did is pretty low, really.

An article I was reading said the sentencing guidelines are 0-6 months in prison and a $9,500 fine.

IMO trump will never pardon him because 1) he’s petty, and 2) pardoning him might require Trump to circumspectly admit to something because he has to detail what Flynn is being pardoned from. You either write it narrow in a way that doesn’t really protect him or you write it really broadly in a way that protects him from everything but says some questionable things like “pardoned for any crimes against the United States committed in 2016 and 2017, which is an admission that he was doing something illegal while part of the trump campaign.

Or the third option is that there is nothing there to pardon, because nothing illegal happened. Based on reporting though, it sounds like instead they are planning to call Flynn a liar.

ToxicAdam

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| 2016 renewed for a 3rd season
« Reply #12537 on: December 28, 2017, 04:20:22 PM »

So “some” experts  ... and ran with the most sensationalist

It was the IPCC and it was their 'most likely' prediction. Not the most severe.




Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| 2016 renewed for a 3rd season
« Reply #12538 on: December 28, 2017, 04:34:42 PM »

So “some” experts  ... and ran with the most sensationalist

It was the IPCC and it was their 'most likely' prediction. Not the most severe.

No, that is not what that article said.

"At the most likely rate of rise, some experts say, most of the beaches on the East coast will be gone in 25 years."

This is the full article, not exactly seeing much that is wrong? You have the IPCC giving a broad outline of what is likely to happen with increased trends, and the Times quoting some of the more cataclysmic forecasts from some of the scientists involved.

http://www.nytimes.com/1995/09/18/world/scientists-say-earth-s-warming-could-set-off-wide-disruptions.html?pagewanted=all

But I guess my larger curiosity is what is the point you are trying to make? A lot of new data and research has been done in the last 20 years and it has only strengthened the consensus of AGW. New research and technology has only helped improve forecast models.

Taking your assertion at face value, does it really change the underlying way the greenhouse effect works? What happens to land ice, like the 650,000 square miles of ice on Greenland, as it melts due to higher temepratures and the melted ice travels into the oceans? What should we expect to see happen over the long term(some of which we absolutely have seen from Miami to the Nile Delta and smaller island nations)?
« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 04:48:06 PM by Nola »

ToxicAdam

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| 2016 renewed for a 3rd season
« Reply #12539 on: December 28, 2017, 04:53:45 PM »
I don't have a problem with the science. I have a problem with applying incomplete science to push governmental policy. Policy which effects billions of people. 

Back in the early 2000's, the UK switched over to diesel engines in an effort to curb Co2 output, now London is choking under smog advisories and people are breathing in more particulates than ever.   In the US, our dalliance with alternative fuels (ethanol) has largely been a waste and now is near impossible to undo (because lobbies have formed to keep it in place).  This is the danger of enacting policy based on partial information or fear mongering.

I'm all for science driving policy once the modeling becomes airtight. Until then, I'll always be around to bring up these doomsday predictions as each year passes. These people that make them need to be held accountable.