Author Topic: US Politics Thread |OT| SAD TRUMP  (Read 5448581 times)

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chronovore

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12600 on: January 08, 2018, 10:38:04 PM »
https://xkcd.com/1939/

 :-\

I've mentioned previously, one of my uncles is a conservative lobbyist in DC. We can keep things civil most of the time. He mainly wants me to recognize fiscal responsibility, and I gently encourage him that social nets are not evil, and that the government and private sector are more intertwined than he'd like to admit.

On FB I talked about taking down Citizens United, and he came back, quite reasonably, with state elections not taking additional money from outside their state borders. I'm OK with it, as long as we can eventually get to one person, one vote in lieu of the Electoral College.

I also won't put it past businesses to open offices in states just to have a venue through which to influence politics if my uncle's suggestion becomes law.

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12601 on: January 08, 2018, 11:12:07 PM »
Eh, There have been maybe less than a half dozen times in the last century where the party in power in the White House didn’t lose major seats in a mid-term. And none had a president this unpopular.

I think 1934, after 9/11, 98 with Clinton and maybe 1 or 2 more.
Just to note on this, the big "losses" historically (45+ House seats) in modern mid-terms since Gallup started are (all Gallup figures to be consistent):
1938: FDR hit his all time greatest disapproval of 46% three times in this year including the week of the election
1942: The real outlier historically, FDR had an approval rating of 70% at the time, Republicans actually won 51% of the popular vote, and I think this had more to do with 1940 blocking a continued "correction" of the original FDR landslides of 1932/1936...i.e. there was no attrition of Democratic over-representation in seats, so they blocked up for another election (also, anti-war voters?)
1946: Truman fell from 50% to about 35% approval by the start of the year to the election...after the election he actually rebounded to 60% and the highest point he would hold post-war except for a similar post-re-election spike
1958: The only year Eisenhower spent under 60% approval, including earlier in the year hitting his lowest point of 47%
1966: Like Ike, the first year LBJ spent under 60%, he was under 50% for the entire second half of the year
1974: Doubtfully related to Ford's approval (55% on election week for example), probably had more to do with that other guy...
1994: Clinton had fallen from 60% to start the year to hit 40% in September, he rebounded a tiny bit in October, just to hit 40% again after the election the lowest point he would ever be for the rest of his term...Clinton's actual lowest point was in summer of 1993 when he spent a month under 40%
2010: Obama had fallen to his lowest point of 45% before a slight rebound and then re-drop similar to Clinton had in 1994...Obama's worst stretch was late 2013-2014, spending much of it around 40%, which didn't lead to a House landslide as GOP had maxed out nearly, but is a backwards explanation for how the GOP ran the table on the Governors and Senators much to the suicidal exasperation of PoliGAF on election night

2002 is funny because technically W. had the largest start of the year to election drop ever for a mid-term, but he started at almost 95% so it like totally doesn't count. He wouldn't fall under 40% until late 2005.

Trump presents an interesting thorn in the side of the midterm theory because of one simple fact. His approval has been so low from the start he has borderline nowhere to drop. His HIGH in the RCP average is 46%, his LOW is 37%.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
This is doubly interesting because of how it relates to Obama's approval history, counting from when Obama first went negative in the RCP average and then back to positive (i.e. when he stopped dropping from his electoral high, much like I would count from when W. finally stopped dropping from 9/11 temporarily) up to 2016 (when politics turned fully to his successors) his approval LOW was 40% and his approval HIGH was 54% on Christmas post-re-election. If we toss out the "era of good feelings" of December 2012 and January 2013 and the week bin Laden got got, his HIGH was 50%.

Looking at RCP's data for the last three Presidents there's arguably really only a maximum ten point swing in any given year between a President's HIGH and LOW points. Especially if you account for outlier events. As I'm starting to ramble in my nonsense numbers way I'll put this under spoiler tags. But looking at our three Presidents this century, their year average, their high and low points in that year, in approval...

YEAR: AVG | HIGH | LOW

2001: 66 | 60* | 52* (actual HIGH of 89 on start of Afghan invasion but I didn't count anything after 9/11)
2002: 71 | 82 | 62
2003: 59 | 72* | 51 (*Iraq invasion, otherwise 65)
2004: 50 | 53 | 45
2005: 45 | 51 | 40
2006: 39 | 43 | 34
2007: 34 | 37 | 30
2008: 30 | 36 | 25 (it actually went up for the economic collapse, and then stopped dropping after Obama elected)
2009: 57 | 65 | 49
2010: 47 | 50 | 44
2011: 47 | 53 | 42 (only 53 for bin Laden!)
2012: 49 | 54 | 45 (54 for getting re-elected! 50 was his high for the year after the second debate)
2013: 46 | 53 | 40
2014: 43 | 44 | 41
2015: 45 | 46 | 43
2016: 50 | 57 | 45 (high of 51 before Trump elected)
2017: 40* | 46 | 37 (i rounded down, and then subtracted one...for reviewers tilt...or to toss out his "era of good feelings" first month and a half)
[close]

tl;dr i have no idea what this means for midterms...er wait that's now how pundits work, then again, this is the era where Bill Kristol called an election and got it nearly right margin wise

p.s. the trend actually continues farther back than W. which leads me to a more sensible conclusion, more polling of which is constant with numerous tracking polls, stamps out the swings and renders the topline data as nearly as useless for election predicting as Congress' approval rating condescending question mark
« Last Edit: January 08, 2018, 11:16:42 PM by benjipwns »

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12602 on: January 09, 2018, 01:25:44 AM »
to make up for that garbage: https://www.lancasterhistory.org/president-buchanans-drinking-habits/
Quote
When visitors tour President James Buchanan’s Wheatland, many notice the quantity of bottles once containing alcohol that are scattered around Buchanan’s dining areas, parlors, and particularly his private office. An unopened 1827 bottle of Madeira wine from Mr. Buchanan’s collection still sits on a table in his office, one floor above the home’s original wine cellar. Occasionally, a visitor will sheepishly inquire, “Did President Buchanan drink a lot?” The answer to this is that a) Americans in the mid-nineteenth century drank a lot (in 1830, 9.5 gallons of distilled spirits per year!) and b) James Buchanan probably drank more than most of them.

...

When he was a Senator, Buchanan bought his whiskey weekly, in 10-gallon quantities, from Jacob Baer, a well-known whiskey merchant in Washington, D.C. Baer’s whiskey was affectionately known as “Old J. B. Whiskey” and our own J. B. was delighted by the fact that his initials matched his own. According to his biographer, Philip Klein, Buchanan considered Baer’s whiskey to be “finer than the best Monongahela.”

One of the best sources on President Buchanan’s drinking habits is John W. Forney, a journalist and politician from Lancaster County who was Buchanan’s one-time political manager and eventual political rival. In his Philadelphia-based newspaper, the Press, Forney wrote in detail of Buchanan’s taste for alcohol, “The Madeira and sherry that he had consumed would fill more than one old cellar, and the rye whiskey that he has ‘punished’ would make Jacob Baer’s heart glad.” Forney also remarked on Buchanan’s ability to drink large quantities of liquor without appearing drunk. After observing Buchanan drink two bottles of cognac and wash it down with rye whiskey, he wrote, “There was no headache, no faltering steps, no flushed cheek. Oh, no! All was as cool, calm and cautious and watchful as in the beginning.”

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12603 on: January 09, 2018, 01:29:07 AM »
This was basically what I was referring to.



It is really hard for the president's party to win seats in a mid-term, historically speaking. Saying "major" seats was probably a bit too subjective and maybe reaching too much, but this is the Trump era, I apologize for nothing!

Last time I really dug into it, Democrats are over-performing in state and national elections by roughly 14 points. And that was before Virginia and Alabama. I haven't really looked into it much since then because I haven't had the itch(or time) to fuck around with the Predict-It Markets since the Georgia 6th(and some easy to win non-election markets Trumpkins let their fever dreams get the best of them early in 2017).

EDIT: Refreshing myself and looking it(this chart) over some more, it looks like +60 percent approval is basically the magic corollary number to have a chance at actually gaining seats, and Kennedy and FDR show that is no guarantee either. Trump, well, its not looking promising right now.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2018, 02:06:54 AM by Nola »

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12604 on: January 09, 2018, 02:36:56 AM »
Yes, I know. But all of this is a mishmash of tiny datasets based around certain presumptions. Which is why 2018 presents a problem in the common narrative of midterms in that the President's party losing theory means we are to expect what has been considered in recent midterms a smaller and more Republican electorate than the one that voted in 2016 for a GOP House to vote in 2018 for a Democratic one. The electorate has to change to a Democratic dominated one, during a midterm. Which fries brains of people who can't remember as far back as 2006.

More importantly. There's a whole different manner in which to look at this, by casting non-midterms in terms of the sitting President like we do midterms. By looking at the President-elect we're actually arguably looking at the same national election twice, not comparing to the President in office.

% of eligible voters voting GOP vs. Dem in the House (sitting President party popular vote wins in italics):
1978: 17.7% v 21.2%
1980: 23.6% v 24.9%

1982: 18.3% v 23.2%
1984: 23.6% v 26.2%
1986: 17.0% v 20.7%
1988: 21.7% v 25.4%
1990: 16.9% v 19.9%
1992: 24.2% v 26.9%
1994: 21.0% v 18.1%
1996: 23.2% v 23.2% (did not win control of the House)
1998: 18.2% v 17.8%
2000: 23.9% v 23.6%
2002: 18.6% v 16.8%
2004: 27.3% v 25.9%

2006: 17.9% v 21.1%
2008: 24.5% v 30.6%
2010: 21.1% v 18.4%
2012: 26.3% v 27.0% (did not win control of the House)
2014: 18.6% v 16.6%
2016: 26.7% v 26.3%

The sitting President's party has lost the House popular vote in 14 of the last 20 elections. It's never taken control of the House in 20 elections.

The proper takeaway from all the data I've just presented? That it has a sample size of 20 and I presented it as a singular binary variable, so ->  :paul

spoiler (click to show/hide)
A more interesting historical fact, since the Civil War, the sitting President's party has won control of the House exactly twice, 1880 and 1948. Both Presidential election years in which the President's party also won.

All other House elections have been holds by the sitting majority or a flip to the Party that did not hold the White House.
[close]

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12605 on: January 09, 2018, 02:37:26 AM »
jesus christ shut the fuck up and go hang yourself with your intestines benji

team filler

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12606 on: January 09, 2018, 03:16:02 AM »
Winfrey/Ivanka 2020
*****

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12607 on: January 09, 2018, 07:06:27 AM »
ever since ERA stole Peter's heart and his Jack Remington alt account with it, it seems like nobody is around to keep me in check except myself

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12608 on: January 09, 2018, 07:13:21 AM »
look, all i'm saying is that ever since ERA opened and Jack fled over there, Verrit.com's production of "memes" has drastically slowed to almost nothing

although he keeps up the good fight against enemies on twitter daily:
https://twitter.com/peterdaou/status/950689736712228864

https://twitter.com/peterdaou/status/950526993732390912

https://twitter.com/peterdaou/status/950479358627631104

https://twitter.com/peterdaou/status/950358319964807168

Maiden Voyage

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12609 on: January 09, 2018, 07:46:15 AM »
Maybe Hilldawg needs to run again in 2020 but this time letting people know she won Gallup's most admired woman poll. Surely that will turn around the court of public opinion.

kingv

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12610 on: January 09, 2018, 07:55:24 AM »
I’ve just been patiently waiting for the next round of indictments so I can pull up all of your comments about how the Mueller probe was almost over from mid December.

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12611 on: January 09, 2018, 08:11:42 AM »
oh that reminded me i wanted to look at the dawn of the midterm year polls last cycle for some hehs...from PPP

mid-December 2013:
spoiler (click to show/hide)
GOP: Christie (19%), Cruz (14%), Huckabee (13%), Rand (11%), Jeb! (10%), Ryan (10%), Rubio (7%), Walker (4%), Jindal (3%)
DEM: Clinton (66%), Biden (10%), Warren (6%), Booker/Cuomo/Dean/Kerry/O'Malley (2%), Schweizer (1%) ... without Hillary, Biden (35%), Warren (13%), Kerry (13%), Booker/Cuomo (7%), Dean/O'Malley (4%), Schweitzer (1%)

head to heads:
Clinton 48% v Jeb! 43%
Christie 45% v Clinton 42%
Clinton 49% v Cruz 41%
Clinton 48% v Huckabee 42%
Clinton 48% v Paul 43%
Christie 49% v Biden 35%
Christie 51% v Dean 29%
Christie 46% v Kerry 35%
Christie 49% v Warren 33%
[close]

end-January 2014:
spoiler (click to show/hide)
GOP: Huckabee (16%), Jeb! (14%), Christie (13%), Paul (11%), Cruz/Rubio/Ryan (8%), Walker (6%), Jindal (5%)
DEM: Clinton (67%), Biden (7%), Warren (7%), Booker/Cuomo (2%) Gillibrand/O'Malley/Warner/Schweizer (1%) ... without Hillary, Biden (32%), Warren (16%), Booker/Cuomo (7%), Gillibrand (3%), Warner/Schweitzer (2%), O'Malley (1%)

head to heads:
Clinton 45% v Jeb! 43%
Clinton 45% v Christie 43%
Clinton 47% v Cruz 41%
Clinton 46% v Huckabee 43%
Clinton 46% v Paul 43%
Clinton 46 v Ryan 44%
Christie 46% v Biden 35%
Christie 43% v Warren 34%
[close]

None of the pollsters include Sanders until mid-2014, Trump until spring 2015.

shosta

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12612 on: January 09, 2018, 09:03:00 AM »
spoiler (click to show/hide)
[close]
spoiler (click to show/hide)
[close]
每天生气

agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12613 on: January 09, 2018, 11:25:48 AM »
White male reporters against Hilldawg, a strong ebony woman.

Great Rumbler

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12614 on: January 09, 2018, 01:15:51 PM »
A conversation overhead at Wal-Mart yesterday:

Man: You never heard this kind of complaining and nonsense from Republicans back when Obama was President!

Woman: Yeah, but that's because Obama passed a law where if any of them said anything bad about him they'd get sent to jail. Trump has that power, too, he just chooses not to use it!
dog

Brehvolution

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12615 on: January 09, 2018, 01:19:13 PM »
:smh
©ZH

agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12616 on: January 09, 2018, 01:26:38 PM »
A conversation overhead at Wal-Mart yesterday:

Man: You never heard this kind of complaining and nonsense from Republicans back when Obama was President!

Woman: Yeah, but that's because Obama passed a law where if any of them said anything bad about him they'd get sent to jail. Trump has that power, too, he just chooses not to use it!

so glad we have a stable genius at the helm now after Obummer's reign of terror



kingv

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12619 on: January 09, 2018, 02:10:24 PM »
But some of our lost esteemed posters were telling me that the FBI had nothing, and that the Flynn plea deal was a sign of this?!

agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12620 on: January 09, 2018, 02:14:00 PM »
It's best to disregard the Bore "skeptics." I mean, they are willing to disregard that the POTUS penned a fake statement about Donald Jr's meeting with Veselnitskaya. If you listen to Benji he obstructed justice merely for shits and giggles   :doge

Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12621 on: January 09, 2018, 02:17:25 PM »
It's best to disregard the Bore "skeptics." I mean, they are willing to disregard that the POTUS penned a fake statement about Donald Jr's meeting with Veselnitskaya. If you listen to Benji he obstructed justice merely for shits and giggles   :doge

Benji's is good fun. :itagaki

Etolilet and Jay Dubya suck a dick. :miyamoto :paul :bolo :preach :heyman

And that one MAGA fan who was the Playstation MVP from Gaf and said he would "participate meaningfully". EAT A DICK.  :neogaf :heh :sabu :miyamoto

Tasty

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12622 on: January 09, 2018, 02:31:26 PM »
Seth Rich was behind it all along :ohhh

Tasty

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12623 on: January 09, 2018, 02:37:05 PM »
Seth Rich... Trump just gave a huge tax cut for the 1%...

Seth Rich was a double-agent for the Kochs and Murdoch this whole time!!

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12624 on: January 09, 2018, 02:44:27 PM »
I got about half way through the document on my lunch break and beyond just being a surprisingly fascinating read into the world of corporate and political research, I think my skepticism of the Steele document(keeping in mind it is still apparently fairly raw intelligence) is dropping notably. Of course I reserve the right to change that opinion as I get through it, or on further reflection. I certainly get why GPS was confident in calling for the testimony to be released publicly....Of course this is Simpson’s version of events and he has his own self-interests, even if under oath, so I try to keep that in mind

I will say, reading about this more, from this document and stoking my curiosity further, highlighted my own weakness in falling for Republican spin, even when I like to fancy myself as being aware of it. I have to admit, my impression of GPS was of a fast and loose gun for hire political opposition research company that dances around in the mud of politics. Which seems to be the broad image the right-wing has tried to foster of GPS, and I guess it must of snuck in on me. Turns out it is mostly a collection of former investigative journalists at places like the WSJ that primarily deal with corporate research. With a seemingly very well structured way of doing it, who’s success clearly seems to be built on reputation. Only occasionally doing client research during political campaigns. And the first 150 pages definitely make me think Bannon wasn’t blowing smoke telling Wolff Mueller will focus heavily on the financial end. Seems to be the common theme all these investigations catch wind of. Lots of dirty money, questionable criminal relationships, and paper trails that heavily suggest foul play.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2018, 02:49:13 PM by Nola »

etiolate

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12625 on: January 09, 2018, 03:14:55 PM »
You are all like Nintendo fanboys trying to convince yourselves the next hardware is really going to be on par with Sony/MS based on hyper-inflated rumor.




Figure this out: The Fusion Dossier was given around. Only Buzzfeed wrote about it. The other news outlets did not see it as verifiable. Buzzfeed got some blowback for posting paid-for gossip. We've now run around the tracka  few times trying to prove an allegation we never have clearly stated. It's Russsian Collusion, which tries to be the claim that Russia impacted the election in favor of Trump in agreement with Trump. We're nowhere near that, so we've walked all the way back to the pee tape story. Oddly, the NY Times which found the Dossier unprintable, allowed the Fusion GPS guy to write a statement in their paper. Now we have urging to see the dossier. 

The question being will we stop to ask if any of it is real and meaningful? Or is this more IT'S H A P P E N I N G for the political fanboys?

Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12626 on: January 09, 2018, 03:20:10 PM »
Etoilet shut the fuck up and take your L.

kingv

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12627 on: January 09, 2018, 03:30:53 PM »
And the switch has better games than Xbox or PS4!!!1122

Joe Molotov

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12628 on: January 09, 2018, 03:36:31 PM »
Unlike the Seth Rich story, that is super real.
©@©™

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12629 on: January 09, 2018, 03:45:35 PM »
Still no CHIP reauthorization.

Next time Dems are in power, they really ought to make CHIP permanent rather than dependent on Congressional renewal. In general they'll need to do more to make social programs harder to sabotage. Which ironically could push them to the left, considering the mandate and the markets were easier for the GOP to target than Medicaid.

agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12630 on: January 09, 2018, 03:50:04 PM »
Etoilet, focus on your Seth Rich investigation please

TakingBackSunday

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12631 on: January 09, 2018, 04:06:44 PM »
lol get fucked bannon
püp

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12632 on: January 09, 2018, 04:26:43 PM »
Bannon thoguht he had his own constituency and base of power separate from Trump.

Oh honey.

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12633 on: January 09, 2018, 04:43:44 PM »
You are all like Nintendo fanboys trying to convince yourselves the next hardware is really going to be on par with Sony/MS based on hyper-inflated rumor.




Figure this out: The Fusion Dossier was given around. Only Buzzfeed wrote about it. The other news outlets did not see it as verifiable. Buzzfeed got some blowback for posting paid-for gossip. We've now run around the tracka  few times trying to prove an allegation we never have clearly stated. It's Russsian Collusion, which tries to be the claim that Russia impacted the election in favor of Trump in agreement with Trump. We're nowhere near that, so we've walked all the way back to the pee tape story. Oddly, the NY Times which found the Dossier unprintable, allowed the Fusion GPS guy to write a statement in their paper. Now we have urging to see the dossier. 

The question being will we stop to ask if any of it is real and meaningful? Or is this more IT'S H A P P E N I N G for the political fanboys?

You might want to actually read the testimony before another attempt to handwave away the narratives that don’t fit your warped Seth Rich timeline.

As the testimony points out, a number of the intelligence Steele received has been corroborated. Meetings that took place, dates that line up, and an additional source that the FBI informed Steele about that seems to line up Papadoupolous spouting off to the Australians.

Beyond that, the timeline of events itself raises questions. This was not some rag tag group that was passing around gossip. Steele, according to this testimony, sought out the FBI on his own accord due to his belief, backed by a career in intelligence dealing with the Russians, that what he was uncovering was credible enough and concerning enough to go to the FBI under the pretense of suspicion of ongoing criminal activities. There is no logical rationale for subjecting yourself to that or the potential scrutiny that could follow, if you are just selling gossip you don’t find credible. And it should also be noted that one person related to this intelligence already ended up dead. As Simpson rightly points out, the sort of human intelligence they gathered is not the sort of thing that can regularly be used by a journalistic outfit that is trying to follow typical norms of reporting, because it’s not the sort of stuff you can verify independently. A point he made from an early question about what type of research they do and their process.

 You can’t go to Russia and file a FOIA request to see if someone from the Trump campaign actually met with person X at Y place. But when ongoing investigations on the American end corroborate certain things, now you have more credible evidence. There is a difference between unsubstantiated and not being credible. You confuse the two out of sheer wishful thinking for narratives that have fallen apart on you while you continue to amusingly assert some intellectual higher ground everyone else has supposedly fallen beneath of. It is amusing, and at least it keeps this thread enetertaining, but it’s myopic


Joe Molotov

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Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12635 on: January 09, 2018, 04:55:02 PM »
 On second thought maybe I’ll stick to it still being Pap.

etiolate

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12636 on: January 09, 2018, 04:55:42 PM »
Bannon made Breitbart into Trump News and then gets ditched by both mostly because nobody likes him.


Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12637 on: January 09, 2018, 05:02:20 PM »

Nah, it’s simply because he lost the trust of the cult of personality and that threatened the business and the Mercer’s money clearly sees more value in taking Trump’s side over defending Bannon.


Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12638 on: January 09, 2018, 05:13:05 PM »
WH is revoking protected status for an estimated 200,000 El Salvadorans in the country.

Since this status goes back to the 2001 earthquake, lots of these people have been here well over a decade. Cool. Great.

Skullfuckers Anonymous

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Steve Contra

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12640 on: January 09, 2018, 05:36:17 PM »
Kind of crazy to think that a multi-generational new york real estate development company might be involved in some shady shit, but here we are.
vin

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12641 on: January 09, 2018, 05:50:45 PM »
WH is revoking protected status for an estimated 200,000 El Salvadorans in the country.

Since this status goes back to the 2001 earthquake, lots of these people have been here well over a decade. Cool. Great.
Are you suggesting that they faked the earthquake as part of getting into the country for 9/11?

Steve Contra

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12642 on: January 09, 2018, 05:59:27 PM »
Also the like button disappeared for me a while back. Like this post to demand the mods fix it.
vin

shosta

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12643 on: January 09, 2018, 06:08:12 PM »
It's best to disregard the Bore "skeptics." I mean, they are willing to disregard that the POTUS penned a fake statement about Donald Jr's meeting with Veselnitskaya. If you listen to Benji he obstructed justice merely for shits and giggles   :doge
I never mentioned the dossier before but intelligence is not infallible. I don't doubt that someone has been killed because of its publication. Russia has killed a staggering number of its nationals overseas in the past 3 years. I also don't doubt that Russia had "compromising" information about Trump with prostitutes in Russia. By had, I do mean past tense: after the pussy tape it's pretty obvious that Trump is immune to these kinds of scandals.

It could be that they were feeding him intelligence for "5 years". And it could be that they had damaging information on Hillary Clinton. But I didn't hear about any damaging information dumps on Hillary during the election. And if they'd been talking to him for 5 years, again, why do people point to Flynn, and then Papadopoulos, and all these other people around him. Most of the reporting done on this has alluded very strongly to Trump being slowly intersected by Russian intelligence efforts to communicate with him. And even with this baseline premise they can't get a coherent narrative together and just cash in on Trump hysteria. As etiolate would say: lay out the corkboards.

I'm willing to believe that any number of allegations in the dossier are true. But when, taken as a whole, none of the reporting last year or the last half of 2016 was coherent in the way that is necessary for a criminal conspiracy to unfold, don't blame me or anyone for being a bit skeptical of any charge laid out against Trump on this topic.

Not to mention the crime is still a mystery.
每天生气

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12644 on: January 09, 2018, 06:14:36 PM »
AFAIK the stuff that has come out wasn't in the dossier, and the stuff in the dossier hasn't been confirmed.

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12645 on: January 09, 2018, 06:43:08 PM »
Who is this “they” fella everyone keeps talking about?

The only person I have seen assert a definitive narrative around here has ironically been etoilet. (Most)Everyone else seems open to a wide range of explanations and possibilities of what this investigation will turn up.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2018, 06:47:15 PM by Nola »

I'm a Puppy!

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12646 on: January 09, 2018, 06:50:05 PM »
they = Seth.....RICH

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Seth Rich
[close]
que

Steve Contra

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12647 on: January 09, 2018, 06:51:43 PM »
they = Seth.....RICH

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Seth Rich
[close]
Who?

spoiler (click to show/hide)
<_<
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>_>
[close]
[close]
vin

Mupepe

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12648 on: January 09, 2018, 07:18:49 PM »
WH is revoking protected status for an estimated 200,000 El Salvadorans in the country.

Since this status goes back to the 2001 earthquake, lots of these people have been here well over a decade. Cool. Great.
Most of my wife’s family that’s legal  :(

etiolate

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12649 on: January 09, 2018, 07:33:29 PM »
By far the greatest thing to come out of the Oprah Presidency hooplah:

https://inhabitat.com/ecouterre/oprah-draws-criticism-for-endorsing-face-cream-made-from-foreskins/

I kind of want to buy this just so whenever anyone says I look young for my age, I can respond with "the secret is baby dicks."

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12650 on: January 09, 2018, 07:43:57 PM »
Not to discount that people can't be concerned about more than one thing at a time but I just lament the feeding frenzy mentality over something of which nobody who seems to follow every tweet storm or minor detail of dudes meeting dudes even takes the time to hypothetically allege the crime that is supposed to have occurred. Even the speculation is garbage about how there could be further speculation in the future. We can't even get the collusion allegation hooked up!

It feels like the endless desire for THE ONE RING TO END TRUMP has been going on for two and a half years now. Then we move onto the next one.

Meanwhile, how many active criminal conspiracies are ongoing involving the Trump Administration? Either that they inherited or started. Indictments of former Trump lackeys for perjury are so far afield of affecting any of that.

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And what about the criminal conspiracy THAT IS THE STATE ITSELF HUH?!?
[close]

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12651 on: January 09, 2018, 07:46:40 PM »
Not to discount that people can't be concerned about more than one thing at a time but I just lament the feeding frenzy mentality over something of which nobody who seems to follow every tweet storm or minor detail of dudes meeting dudes even takes the time to hypothetically allege the crime that is supposed to have occurred. Even the speculation is garbage about how there could be further speculation in the future. We can't even get the collusion allegation hooked up!

It feels like the endless desire for THE ONE RING TO END TRUMP has been going on for two and a half years now. Then we move onto the next one.

Meanwhile, how many active criminal conspiracies are ongoing involving the Trump Administration? Either that they inherited or started. Indictments of former Trump lackeys for perjury are so far afield of affecting any of that.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
And what about the criminal conspiracy THAT IS THE STATE ITSELF HUH?!?
[close]
:putin

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12652 on: January 09, 2018, 08:04:14 PM »
even takes the time to hypothetically allege the crime that is supposed to have occurred

oh?

zomgee

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12653 on: January 09, 2018, 08:10:31 PM »
Not to discount that people can't be concerned about more than one thing at a time but I just lament the feeding frenzy mentality over something of which nobody who seems to follow every tweet storm or minor detail of dudes meeting dudes even takes the time to hypothetically allege the crime that is supposed to have occurred. Even the speculation is garbage about how there could be further speculation in the future. We can't even get the collusion allegation hooked up!

It feels like the endless desire for THE ONE RING TO END TRUMP has been going on for two and a half years now. Then we move onto the next one.

Meanwhile, how many active criminal conspiracies are ongoing involving the Trump Administration? Either that they inherited or started. Indictments of former Trump lackeys for perjury are so far afield of affecting any of that.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
And what about the criminal conspiracy THAT IS THE STATE ITSELF HUH?!?
[close]

I wonder sometimes if this is just the mirror image of the desperation that the talking points right used while Obama was president. Every single article listed on /r/politics is some sort of impeachable offense, mental issue which demands removal from office, illegal use of power, financial impropriety which will surely get the entire family arrested next week, and so on.
rub

zomgee

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12654 on: January 09, 2018, 08:10:57 PM »
#IamSethRich
rub

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12655 on: January 09, 2018, 08:15:06 PM »
It's not to my knowledge de facto illegal for Americans to communicate with people from other countries. Which is usually what I am told is the crime that President of the United States Donald J. Trump and nasty woman Crooked Hillary committed.

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12656 on: January 09, 2018, 08:30:51 PM »
I wonder sometimes if this is just the mirror image of the desperation that the talking points right used while Obama was president. Every single article listed on /r/politics is some sort of impeachable offense, mental issue which demands removal from office, illegal use of power, financial impropriety which will surely get the entire family arrested next week, and so on.
For some it's a kind of defense mechanism that by denying the legitimacy that somehow makes everything better. I knew people who always acted like the worst thing about W. was "selected, not elected" rather than you know, all the stuff he did in office.

Hell, I'd still see on GAF from time to time people who couldn't take mentions of him without "correcting the record" about how he stole the office and was never actually elected.

Rather than actually asking the important questions like who authorized a handful of WHITE MEN 230 years ago to decide we even have something called a President who can enforce and enact laws over us without our prior approval?!? Some due process I say!

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12657 on: January 09, 2018, 08:32:06 PM »
It's not to my knowledge de facto illegal for Americans to communicate with people from other countries. Which is usually what I am told is the crime that President of the United States Donald J. Trump and nasty woman Crooked Hillary committed.

I think the part where that communication may have involved the acquisition or coordinated dissemination of knowingly criminally acquired private information, perhaps with an implied quid-pro-quo, is a piece of context that you might of left out.

My background is the ever useful field of economics, not criminal law, so I'll leave it up to actual legal experts to fill that in. But I will say, if following that and other incidents, a person, say the president, knowingly knew of such arrangements or perceived criminal exposure to people he cared about, did something like run around trying to obstruct an investigation looking into those crimes, even going so far as to admit the motive on national TV, there is a good chance that president is setting the grounds for credible accusations of abuse of power and obstruction of justice for the political process that was designed by the founders to address that.


And I think all of that, plus the numerous other suspicious behavior and events, warrants a thorough investigation of the Trump campaign. And if there are some hyper-partisans, who's fever dreams get the best of them, I guess I don't really care all that much. And if people get too obsessed with he followers of the investigation that it influences their thoughts on the actual investigation, I kind of see that as a personal failing on that individual's part, no offense.

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12658 on: January 09, 2018, 08:45:23 PM »
I think the part where that communication may have involved the acquisition or coordinated dissemination of knowingly criminally acquired private information, perhaps with an implied quid-pro-quo, is a piece of context that you might of left out.
Are you talking about John Podesta's e-mails?

Steve Contra

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Oprah/Uma 2020
« Reply #12659 on: January 09, 2018, 08:47:27 PM »
It's not to my knowledge de facto illegal for Americans to communicate with people from other countries. Which is usually what I am told is the crime that President of the United States Donald J. Trump and nasty woman Crooked Hillary committed.
You seem genuinely confused as to the nefarious possibilities of what could be uinvolved in influencing an election. Have you ever heard of the CIA? If not I suggest a quick look.
vin